Heidrun, "Translated from the French" is an unstructured description of the relationship of the resource to another expression (though it's not a very specific description) and is covered by RDA 24.4.3. See also the example at 26.1.1.3 "The English edition of a Spanish publication, which is also issued in French, German, and Arabic editions", which like the "Translated from the French" note describes in a very general way the relationship of the resource to four other expressions.
I'd say the codes in 041 are non-RDA (at least they don't fall under the definition of either structured or unstructured description in 24.4.3), but that doesn't mean that they can't be recorded in a MARC record (they aren't AACR2 either). Bob Robert L. Maxwell Head, Special Collections and Formats Catalog Dept. 6728 Harold B. Lee Library Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 (801)422-5568 "We should set an example for all the world, rather than confine ourselves to the course which has been heretofore pursued"--Eliza R. Snow, 1842. ________________________________ From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] on behalf of Heidrun Wiesenmüller [wiesenmuel...@hdm-stuttgart.de] Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 12:22 PM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: Re: [RDA-L] "Translated from" notes and code for original language Joan, good idea, I hadn't thought of that. So this seems to confirm my assumption that at least the code for the original language cannot be mapped to any RDA element (perhaps it's different for the "Translated from" note). Pity - I had hoped for someone to come up with a clever idea ;-) I'm not sure how common this kind of coding is in the Anglo-American world, anyway. If it is done regularly, I'd be interested to know how it is handled now by people who already do their cataloging in RDA. In German cataloging, it's quite normal to record a code for the original language, and I wouldn't want to give this up when we switch to RDA (at least not until our data is much more FRBRized than it is now). Well, I suppose nobody will stop us from still recording this kind of information, even if it's not covered in RDA. Heidrun Heidrun, I look at MARC to RDA mapping. It shows that the corresponding RDA instruction number is "N/A". So I have to say that I do not know :) Have a great weekend, Joan Wang On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 12:48 PM, Heidrun Wiesenmüller <wiesenmuel...@hdm-stuttgart.de<mailto:wiesenmuel...@hdm-stuttgart.de>> wrote: Joan, That is exactly the question: Is it indeed a matter of recording relationships between two expressions when I record the original language in 041 $h or write a note like "Translated from the French"? My feeling is that it is something else, and I wonder what exactly it is and whether this is covered by RDA somehow. If we look at RDA 26.1 (Related expression), there are three possibilities for recording a relationship between two expressions: Either by an identifier, by an authorized access point or by a description (structured or unstructured). The first two options are certainly out of the question in our case. Now, could "Translated from the French" or the code "fre" in 041 $h be counted as some sort of shorthand way for an unstructured description of the related expression? That's where I have my doubts. Now, if the information we record by the translation note or the code for the original language is _not_ a relationship to another expression - what else could it be? I think that what we record here is in fact an attribute of another expression. So, the composite description seems to contain attributes of two different expressions at the same time (the one I'm actually describing and the one with the original language). This looks a bit odd to me. Mind, I'm not saying that the information given in a "translated from" note or a code in 041 is not useful. Quite the contrary: I think it's very sensible to record it. Only I can't find a suitable RDA element for it - unless we really see it as shorthand for a relationship, which I would find hard to stomach. Probably Mac is going to say that we shouldn't agonize about it and simply go on doing it ;-) Heidrun Hi, Heidrun I am not sure if I understand your issue correctly. Does it go relationships between expressions? So we can use structured or unstructured descriptions, or relationship designators in authorized access points. If I am not right, please feel free to correct me. Thanks, Joan Wang On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 9:46 AM, Heidrun Wiesenmüller <wiesenmuel...@hdm-stuttgart.de<mailto:wiesenmuel...@hdm-stuttgart.de>> wrote: Sorry, I pushed the wrong button just now - here's the complete text of the mail: -------------- I wonder how a note like "Translated from the French" does fit in with RDA, in a composite description scenario. The same goes for codes in MARC 041 $h giving information about the original language, e.g.: 041 1# $a eng $h fre (text in English, translated from French) The only possible RDA elements I can think of for this kind of information are 6.11 (Language of expression) and 7.12 (Language of the content), but I'm not really happy with that. 6.11 doesn't seem to work, because "French" is not the language of the expression described, but the language of a different expression. Similarly, 7.12 is about the content of the present resource only. The problem seems to be that the information we're giving here is an attribute of a different expression. Admittedly, this is a perhaps an academic question only, but still: Any ideas? Heidrun -- --------------------- Prof. Heidrun Wiesenmueller M.A. Stuttgart Media University Faculty of Information and Communication Wolframstr. 32, 70191 Stuttgart, Germany www.hdm-stuttgart.de/bi<http://www.hdm-stuttgart.de/bi> -- Zhonghong (Joan) Wang, Ph.D. Cataloger -- CMC Illinois Heartland Library System (Edwardsville Office) 6725 Goshen Road Edwardsville, IL 62025 618.656.3216x409<tel:618.656.3216x409> 618.656.9401Fax -- --------------------- Prof. Heidrun Wiesenmueller M.A. Stuttgart Media University Faculty of Information and Communication Wolframstr. 32, 70191 Stuttgart, Germany www.hdm-stuttgart.de/bi<http://www.hdm-stuttgart.de/bi> -- Zhonghong (Joan) Wang, Ph.D. Cataloger -- CMC Illinois Heartland Library System (Edwardsville Office) 6725 Goshen Road Edwardsville, IL 62025 618.656.3216x409 618.656.9401Fax -- --------------------- Prof. Heidrun Wiesenmueller M.A. Stuttgart Media University Faculty of Information and Communication Wolframstr. 32, 70191 Stuttgart, Germany www.hdm-stuttgart.de/bi<http://www.hdm-stuttgart.de/bi>
