Let’s see it in writing, in the manuals included with the components and in the 
online, downloadable manuals.  Clarity is of the essence!
 
Chris Daum
Oasis Montana Inc.
406-777-4309 or 4321
406-777-4309 fax
 <http://www.oasismontana.com> www.oasismontana.com 
 
 
 
From: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org> On Behalf Of 
Lones Tuss
Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 1:14 PM
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] High altitude off-grid systems
 
Hello All
Outback’s Product Warranty is not based or negated by the altitude of the 
installation.  Altitude ratings ensure full spec operation of the equipment up 
to the stated elevation . As noted in several posts due to thinner air cooling 
of equipment can be affected. Additional cooling may be required and or 
additional products to achieve the necessary load requirements. 
 
 
 
From: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
<mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org> > On Behalf Of jerrysgarage01
Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 11:26 AM
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org 
<mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> >
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] High altitude off-grid systems
 
Wrenches
Here is the math, well the answer at sea level your body has 14.70 PSI exerted 
on it, at 10,000 feet you only have 10.163 PSI, reduced air pressure, reduced 
cooling or heating ability adjusted for standard sea level temp or just over 
69%.
I have done work in Hawaii on the big island up at the summit, it can be warm 
and very thin air, without air to cool no inverter will perform very well. I 
have some SMA, FX and Raidians in warm high altitude locations and added extra 
cooling to compensate for the lack of air. You will hear the cooling fans 
spinning faster, moving less air at higher altitudes.
SMA sunny island does have a 9k plus operating altitude but de-rates at less 
the 7k.
Jerry
PV inspector 
 
 
 
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
 
-------- Original message --------
From: Jay Pozner <j...@nunatakenergy.com <mailto:j...@nunatakenergy.com> > 
Date: 4/12/19 10:06 AM (GMT-08:00) 
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org 
<mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] High altitude off-grid systems 
 
 
 
We do a fair amount of systems at "altitude".  Recently we had an issue with a 
Radian system at about 10,000'.  An 8048 inverter screaming (fans running hard) 
with just 2000 watts of load.  I hounded tech support for two years, and even 
after switching power modules, etc in the end the techs claim a fairly 
substantial deration (that I can't quote right now) of inverter performance 
because of cooling issues.  We  ultimately added another inverter to the system 
at the end of last summer.  I hope this season we will see a better result.   
It makes sense, given the difference in air density, but I do scratch my head 
and wonder why we haven't seen such issues with the older FX's, and some of the 
older legacy systems?
 
I also know that the Midnite classic charge controllers seem to run the fans 
quite hard as well.  I haven't had to replace any of the fans, and the 
controllers are performing great, but wonder if that will be an issue in the 
future.   It would be great if some manufactures would give us a quality, 
competitively priced, equipment that is rated for altitude, but I don't think 
there are that many options out there as of now
 
 
.

  
<http://static.squarespace.com/static/52f26626e4b049d9fe1f4f70/t/52fd4d40e4b0c0844a0eb2de/1393270590052/?format=1500w>
 
Jay Pozner
(970) 642-5554
www.nunatakenergy.com <http://www.nunatakenergy.com/> 
NABCEP Certified PV Installer:
Cert.#031310-177
  
<http://static.squarespace.com/static/52f26626e4b049d9fe1f4f70/53067822e4b0822d0c7053a4/53067823e4b0ec57163c45a8/1392932899560/NABCEP%20PV%20Seal%20Jay.jpg?format=300w>
 
 
 
On Fri, Apr 12, 2019 at 9:17 AM Steve Higgins <st...@surrette.com 
<mailto:st...@surrette.com> > wrote:
Not to add fuel to the fire... and it's been almost 7 years since I've been 
with an Inverter manufacturer so here is my .02 cents...  So again, I hope I'm 
not overstepping the boundaries of the Wrenches list. 
 
If I remember correctly the main issue with the high altitude installs are some 
of the components that are used to build the inverter/controllers aren't rated 
to be used at high altitude, one of the main components that have this issue is 
the electrolytic capacitors.    Of course, the specs vary from component to 
component.   I've seen some rated as low as 8000 ft to some as rated as high as 
30,000 ft.   It really just depends on the part(s) that the manufacturer used 
to build the product. 
 
As you gain altitude the temperatures and the air pressure decrease, as it was 
explained to me years ago the problem is with the temperature decrease, this 
will affect the capacitance of the capacitor.  The colder temps will reduce the 
overall capacitance of the capacitor, just like it will with a battery. 

These caps are generally used to filter noise from circuits, so when these 
fail, or the capacitance values fall, you don't get the filtering you need and 
this induces noise into your circuitry possibly causing overall failure or 
worse,  the dreaded intermittent failure.   Generally, if the 
inverters/controllers are kept on and warm, you won't have too many problems, 
it's when they are in extremely cold temperatures is when you will start having 
issues.  
 
Hope this helps!   Have a good weekend!   
 


 <http://www.rollsbattery.com> 
Steve Higgins ⋅ Technical Services Manager 
t +1.902.597.4020  m +1.206.790.5840
f +1.902.597.8447  e  <mailto:st...@surrette.com> st...@surrette.com
 <http://www.facebook.com/RollsBattery>  <http://www.twitter.com/RollsBattery>  
<https://www.youtube.com/user/RollsBattery>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/rolls-battery-engineering>  
<http://www.instagram.com/RollsBattery> 

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On Fri, Apr 12, 2019 at 7:47 AM <ch...@oasismontana.com 
<mailto:ch...@oasismontana.com> > wrote:
Folks:
 
The issue here ulltimately isn’t whether it works or not, it’s if it’s 
WARRANTED.  Some purchasers (in this case the USFS) mandate that all equipment 
be warranted for high altitudes.  And that leaves out several major suppliers.
 
 
Chris Daum
Oasis Montana Inc.
 
 
From: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
<mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org> > On Behalf Of Ray
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2019 10:55 PM
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org 
<mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] High altitude off-grid systems
 
We've had some systems at 11,000 ft plus, for almost 20 years.  We have 
mixtures of Outback, Midnite, Blue Sky, and old Trace equipment.  Never any 
issues with electronics related to altitude.  Actually the altitude related 
system issues are generator derating, and array output exceeding STC ratings on 
really clear cold days due to the thin atmosphere.  The third issue would be 
installers not being able to catch our breath after jogging back to the truck.  
Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760
On 4/11/19 3:39 PM, Dan Fink wrote:
Hi Chris; I am deeply concerned about this as nearly 100% of the systems I 
install are at 8000 ft (2500m) or higher. I've never had a problem with 
warranty claims to Outback or Schneider up to this time. If this is a "new 
thing" I'd really like to know about it, on list or off. 
 
The alitude de-rate stuff seems to involve dialectric ratings on the 
transformer coils, and low air density for cooling. I think that's all in ANSI.
 


Dan Fink
Director of Solar Education, Greendustrial Training LLC
IREC Certified Instructor™ for: 
~ PV Installation Professional
~ Small Wind Installer
NABCEP PV Associate
Executive Director, Buckville Energy Consulting
NABCEP Registered Continuing Education Providers
dan.f...@greendustrialtraining.com <mailto:dan.f...@greendustrialtraining.com> 
970-672-4342

 
 
 
On Thu, Apr 11, 2019 at 1:28 PM <ch...@oasismontana.com 
<mailto:ch...@oasismontana.com> > wrote:
Hi folks:
 
I am curious as to how many of you sell/install battery/inverter systems at 
high altitudes?  Have you had any particular issues with them?  Last year we 
discovered (in a mostly costly fashion) that Schneider inverters (and also 
Outback) are not warranted above 6500 ft.  
 
Magnum inverters are warranted to 15,000 ft max altitude.  
 
Best,
 
Chris Daum
Oasis Montana Inc.
406-777-4309 or 4321
406-777-4309 fax
 <http://www.oasismontana.com> www.oasismontana.com 
 
 
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