1. In addition, manufactures provides guidance and altitude considerations tables for those applications that require operation at high altitudes - e.g. "altitudes in excess of 6,562 feet (2000 m)" of electromechanical equipment (contactors and starters) and PV modules
2. For instance, one module manufacture "The installation place should be less than 1,000m (3280ft) above sea level." And higher altitude installations are allowed only if wind pressure is a factor. BTW, manufactures may not specifically follow NEC 90.9(B) and the dual system of units :) All the best, Martin Herzfeld, Interstate Renewable Energy Council (IREC) Certified Master Trainer ™ for Photovoltaics (PV) Installation Professional #IREC 10037 https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/a54a49a9-31cb-4f52-b35f-9d7c90630bb9/public_url Adjunct Professor, Energy California Solar Contractor License #00833782 C46, D56, D31, C-7 Solar, Trenching, Pole Installation & Maintenance, Instrumentation Contract Technical Inspector Underwriters Laboratories (UL) Certified PV Installer #17, OSHA 30 OSHA-Authorized Construction Trainer #32-0105338 CompTIA Certified Technical Classroom Trainer (CTT+) #T3NSZCNBBKB4QTQG https://www.youracclaim.com/badges/f23ae19b-0370-4ca1-99d1-418403a8faea/linked_in_profile * Member, California Solar & Storage Association * Professional Member, International Association of Electrical Inspectors #7035507 * Accredited and Registered North American Board of Certified Energy Practitioners (NABCEP) Continuing Education (CE) Provider On Tue, Apr 16, 2019, 5:12 PM Jay <jay.pe...@gmail.com> wrote: > For the Radian > Page 59 of the operators manual ( it’s a different set of environmental > specifications than the install manual or data sheets) > 2000m max altitude. > > Jay > Peltz power. > > On Apr 16, 2019, at 12:11 PM, <ch...@oasismontana.com < > ch...@oasismontana.com> wrote: > > Let’s see it in writing, in the manuals included with the components and > in the online, downloadable manuals. Clarity is of the essence! > > > > Chris Daum > > Oasis Montana Inc. > > 406-777-4309 or 4321 > > 406-777-4309 fax > > www.oasismontana.com > > > > > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org> *On > Behalf Of *Lones Tuss > *Sent:* Friday, April 12, 2019 1:14 PM > *To:* RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] High altitude off-grid systems > > > > Hello All > > Outback’s Product Warranty is not based or negated by the altitude of the > installation. Altitude ratings ensure full spec operation of the equipment > up to the stated elevation . As noted in several posts due to thinner air > cooling of equipment can be affected. Additional cooling may be required > and or additional products to achieve the necessary load requirements. > > > > > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org> *On > Behalf Of *jerrysgarage01 > *Sent:* Friday, April 12, 2019 11:26 AM > *To:* RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] High altitude off-grid systems > > > > Wrenches > > Here is the math, well the answer at sea level your body has 14.70 PSI > exerted on it, at 10,000 feet you only have 10.163 PSI, reduced air > pressure, reduced cooling or heating ability adjusted for standard sea > level temp or just over 69%. > > I have done work in Hawaii on the big island up at the summit, it can be > warm and very thin air, without air to cool no inverter will perform very > well. I have some SMA, FX and Raidians in warm high altitude locations and > added extra cooling to compensate for the lack of air. You will hear the > cooling fans spinning faster, moving less air at higher altitudes. > > SMA sunny island does have a 9k plus operating altitude but de-rates at > less the 7k. > > Jerry > > PV inspector > > > > > > > > Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone > > > > -------- Original message -------- > > From: Jay Pozner <j...@nunatakenergy.com> > > Date: 4/12/19 10:06 AM (GMT-08:00) > > To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] High altitude off-grid systems > > > > > > > > We do a fair amount of systems at "altitude". Recently we had an issue > with a Radian system at about 10,000'. An 8048 inverter screaming (fans > running hard) with just 2000 watts of load. I hounded tech support for two > years, and even after switching power modules, etc in the end the techs > claim a fairly substantial deration (that I can't quote right now) of > inverter performance because of cooling issues. We ultimately added > another inverter to the system at the end of last summer. I hope this > season we will see a better result. It makes sense, given the difference > in air density, but I do scratch my head and wonder why we haven't seen > such issues with the older FX's, and some of the older legacy systems? > > > > I also know that the Midnite classic charge controllers seem to run the > fans quite hard as well. I haven't had to replace any of the fans, and the > controllers are performing great, but wonder if that will be an issue in > the future. It would be great if some manufactures would give us a > quality, competitively priced, equipment that is rated for altitude, but I > don't think there are that many options out there as of now > > > > > > . > > > Jay Pozner > (970) 642-5554 > www.nunatakenergy.com > NABCEP Certified PV Installer: > Cert.#031310-177 > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 12, 2019 at 9:17 AM Steve Higgins <st...@surrette.com> wrote: > > Not to add fuel to the fire... and it's been almost 7 years since I've > been with an Inverter manufacturer so here is my .02 cents... So again, I > hope I'm not overstepping the boundaries of the Wrenches list. > > > > If I remember correctly the main issue with the high altitude installs are > some of the components that are used to build the inverter/controllers > aren't rated to be used at high altitude, one of the main components that > have this issue is the electrolytic capacitors. Of course, the specs > vary from component to component. I've seen some rated as low as 8000 ft > to some as rated as high as 30,000 ft. It really just depends on the > part(s) that the manufacturer used to build the product. > > > > As you gain altitude the temperatures and the air pressure decrease, as it > was explained to me years ago the problem is with the temperature decrease, > this will affect the capacitance of the capacitor. The colder temps will > reduce the overall capacitance of the capacitor, just like it will with a > battery. > > These caps are generally used to filter noise from circuits, so when these > fail, or the capacitance values fall, you don't get the filtering you need > and this induces noise into your circuitry possibly causing overall failure > or worse, the dreaded intermittent failure. Generally, if the > inverters/controllers are kept on and warm, you won't have too many > problems, it's when they are in extremely cold temperatures is when you > will start having issues. > > > > Hope this helps! Have a good weekend! > > > > > <http://www.rollsbattery.com> > > *Steve Higgins **⋅* *Technical Services Manager* > > *t* +1.902.597.4020 *m* +1.206.790.5840 > > *f* +1.902.597.8447 *e* st...@surrette.com > > <http://www.facebook.com/RollsBattery> > <http://www.twitter.com/RollsBattery> > <https://www.youtube.com/user/RollsBattery> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/rolls-battery-engineering> > <http://www.instagram.com/RollsBattery> > ------------------------------ > > CONFIDENTIALITY: The information transmitted herein is intended only for > the addressee and may contain confidential, proprietary and/or privileged > material. Any unauthorized review, distribution or other use of or the > taking of any action in reliance upon this information is prohibited. If > you receive this email in error, please contact the sender and delete or > destroy this message and all copies. > ------------------------------ > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 12, 2019 at 7:47 AM <ch...@oasismontana.com> wrote: > > Folks: > > > > The issue here ulltimately isn’t whether it works or not, it’s if it’s > WARRANTED. Some purchasers (in this case the USFS) mandate that all > equipment be warranted for high altitudes. And that leaves out several > major suppliers. > > > > > > Chris Daum > > Oasis Montana Inc. > > > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org> *On > Behalf Of *Ray > *Sent:* Thursday, April 11, 2019 10:55 PM > *To:* re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] High altitude off-grid systems > > > > We've had some systems at 11,000 ft plus, for almost 20 years. We have > mixtures of Outback, Midnite, Blue Sky, and old Trace equipment. Never any > issues with electronics related to altitude. Actually the altitude related > system issues are generator derating, and array output exceeding STC > ratings on really clear cold days due to the thin atmosphere. The third > issue would be installers not being able to catch our breath after jogging > back to the truck. > > Ray Walters > > Remote Solar > > 303 505-8760 > > On 4/11/19 3:39 PM, Dan Fink wrote: > > Hi Chris; I am deeply concerned about this as nearly 100% of the systems I > install are at 8000 ft (2500m) or higher. I've never had a problem with > warranty claims to Outback or Schneider up to this time. If this is a "new > thing" I'd really like to know about it, on list or off. > > > > The alitude de-rate stuff seems to involve dialectric ratings on the > transformer coils, and low air density for cooling. I think that's all in > ANSI. > > > > > Dan Fink > > Director of Solar Education, Greendustrial Training LLC > > IREC Certified Instructor™ for: > > ~ PV Installation Professional > > ~ Small Wind Installer > > NABCEP PV Associate > > Executive Director, Buckville Energy Consulting > > NABCEP Registered Continuing Education Providers > > dan.f...@greendustrialtraining.com > > 970-672-4342 > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 11, 2019 at 1:28 PM <ch...@oasismontana.com> wrote: > > Hi folks: > > > > I am curious as to how many of you sell/install battery/inverter systems > at high altitudes? Have you had any particular issues with them? Last > year we discovered (in a mostly costly fashion) that Schneider inverters > (and also Outback) are not warranted above 6500 ft. > > > > Magnum inverters are warranted to 15,000 ft max altitude. > > > > Best, > > > > Chris Daum > > Oasis Montana Inc. > > 406-777-4309 or 4321 > > 406-777-4309 fax > > www.oasismontana.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > > > Change listserver email address & settings: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > > Check out or update participant bios: > > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > >
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