Hi Howie,
I've continued to install EG4 LL V2 batteries for clients, I
originally purchased a bank of EG4 V1's for my own system to experiment
with before recommending them to clients, I quickly ended up with 7
clients with them and all the installs are performing without issues,
these are all OFF GRID without comms between the battery and inverter,
I'm keeping them above freezing with insulated battery box's and heating
pads when necessary, Cooling may be more of an issue in some outdoor
shed installs because of summer heat in central N.M.
One thing that came up that had me concerned was Signature solar Techs
started recommending 3 or 4 deep discharge cycles, down to 20% SOC when
commissioning the batteries, this was so that the BMS could learn what
the normal operating range would be for the battery as to prevent early
low voltage shut down events, I thought this was going to be too
burdensome for off grid clients or for me, a few clients didn't mind
doing that commissioning recommendation but most haven't done it and
there hasn't been any issues.
The EG4 LL V2 has a ten year prorated warranty, it has UL ratings, it
has fire suppression pads in them that will melt down on top of the
battery at high temps if they are mounted in a flat orientation, I have
a few clients with the EG4 rack cabinet but most are mounted face up in
the original insulated L16 or Surrette industrial cell battery box's,
Signature solar has said this orientation will not void the warranty or
effect operation of the battery.
Carl Hansen
Hansen&Sun Electric 505 470-0770
On 2024-02-18 10:34 AM, Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches wrote:
All,
Thanks for the thoughts and feedback about EG4 and Lithium in general.
I'm disappointed to see the overall negative feedback about EG4, but
not overly surprised. I was hoping to hear from folks who previously
had decent things to say about them (E.G. Peter Giroux, Carl Hansen)
would chime in with updated reviews. I have been seduced into using
relatively new products that promised to improve upon "sliced bread"
before, only to more times than not, end up fruI'strated with wasted
time and reputation.
For our work in VT, LiFePO4 batteries, so far, are enough of an
improvement over lead acid (particularly for Off-Grid), that if the
client is willing to spend the money, I encourage them to go that
route. There are certainly plenty of on going issues with many of
these relatively new products, some larger headaches than I'm happy
about. On balance however, my calculus leans heavily toward advantage
Lithium. We can make work-arounds for most of the immediate problems,
and their documentable efficiency and low maintenance (along with
fewer holes in my clothes) win the argument for me.
I have yet to see a BMS failure, but I'm sure I'll have the chance to
solve that problem. I'm also annoyed that the inverter sales teams
have chosen to market the new hybrid inverters as compatible with
Lead-Acid, because as has been noted, as they currently are
configured, Lead-Acid management has been a mostly a slipshod
afterthought. There are several other areas they will need to focus
before I would deem the ready-for-prime-time. However, as best I can
tell, there is intense competition for market share right now, so if
enough of the installer base pushes for these necessary changes, they
will do there best to accommodate us.
The areas I see needing significant improvements:
* Rock solid BMS and and battery-inverter communication (standard
industry wide protocols?)
* True Lead-Acid programming capabilities
* More finesse with the AGS controls
And, again, if anyone has recent positive reports about EG4 equipment,
I'd be happy to hear about them on or off list.
Howie Michaelson
Sun Catcher
On Sat, Feb 17, 2024 at 1:16 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches
<re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
Drake:
I prefer the UnigyII VRLA batteries. Full river 2 volt L-16s are
pretty good and they allow one string configuration in larger AH
settings.
I agree that as features grow so does complexity. However there is
no substitute for good remote monitoring and control. I can
understand much better the operation of systems with easy access
to historic data and I save a butt-load of driving. I wish the
Outback and Sunny Island files could be obtained remotely for
better analysis.
William
Miller Solar
17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
805-438-5600
www.millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/>
CA Lic. 773985
*From:*RE-wrenches
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of
*Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches
*Sent:* Saturday, February 17, 2024 9:43 AM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Cc:* drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] EG4 Equipment
I fully agree that off grid solar has taken a major downturn. Once
the equipment became software based, the reliability dropped.
Sure, there are nice features available with these cyber enhanced
systems, but the cost in reliability makes being energy
independent off the grid hard to accomplish.
There are good reports on Samlex products. Has anyone tried their
new 120/240 split phase units? Are they stack-able yet?
As far as batteries go, I'm pretty much in the Lead Head club,
especially for off grid. That being said, lead acid batteries,
especially AGMs have gotten really expensive and it seems the
quality isn't what it used to be.
What is the best AGM battery these days?
Thanks,
Drake
---
On 2024-02-16 17:02, Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches wrote:
We gave EG4 and Signature another chance after promises from
their dealer oriented support department that we could expect
better service from them. We had an EG4 BMS crap out a couple
months ago after only a few months. Lots and lots of
communications with Signature and we still don't have a BMS or
replacement battery. It's been a shit show with them. I think
we are going to remove them and install 3rd party BMS's and
find some use for them. Maybe donate them. We've only had luck
with Schneider/Discover pairings in closed loop. A large
system we did with Sol-Arks never really worked in Closed
loop, despite Discover coming to the site. Most likely it's a
Sol-Ark issue, but we've reached Sol-Arks technical expertise
limits. Even with Schneider/AES, there have been some issues
that are causing me to re-consider Li for offgrid. I just had
a conversation this morning with a long time off-grid pro and
he said the same thing. It used to be, we'd install a wet lead
acid bank and then ten years would pass before hearing from
the client when it was time for another bank. Sometimes
fifteen years. Our call backs with systems over the last ten
years, first with a decline in equipment quality and then the
switch to Li are costing us too much money and causing a lot
of heartburn for our clients. Rant Over
On Fri, Feb 16, 2024 at 12:57 PM Howie Michaelson via
RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
Hi All,
I've searched the archives for info pertaining to EG4
inverters and batteries. The comments have been mostly
positive. I have stayed away from EG4 until now in part,
for the reason the Michael Morningstar suggested last June
- that is, they seemed very oriented to the DIY market and
not real serious contenders in the lasting marketplace.
However, I was at RE+ Boston this week and was quite
surprised to see that the EG4 18k inverter is, for all I
could tell, identical to the Fortress Envy 12k, in both
physical layout as well as menu structure. I have very
limited experience with the Envy (having just installed my
1st one last week, in order to compare it to the Sol-Ark
15). I don't have any thoughts about it yet, except that
the font on the screen is quite small and the opening
screen is not as intuitive as the Sol-Ark, but that might
just take familiarizing myself more to the Envy (and/or
the EG4).
My question is, for folks who have had either the Envy or
the EG4 inverters installed for a decent period of time,
what is your current take on their functionality,
durability, and for the EG4, the quality of support? Also,
what experience have folks had similarly with the EG4 LLI
batteries? I'm not unhappy with the Sol-Ark or in general
the Fortress eVault Max battery, but there are some
attractive things about the Envy and potentially the EG4
18k, and the price point and seemingly smart configuration
of the EG4 LLI batteries are certainly eye-catching.
I'm also currently starting to lean toward using Lithium
batteries and inverters from the same manufacturer, as I'm
growing weary of the mismatching firmware updates that are
causing somewhat frequent issues between the 2 components.
Although the inverter/battery integrated units (i.e.
Sonen, Tesla, etc.) don't seem ideal, since the market is
so volatile at the moment. If one component fails, I'd
like the option to replace it with a different brand
without having to replace the other component as well.
Using the same manu doesn't necessarily cut down the
problems, but it certainly will help in the
troubleshooting process by hopefully having less of the
"not my problem" or "we haven't seen that problem"
responses from tech support.
I really don't like making forays into bleeding-edge
technologies, so I'm hoping to gain some experienced insight.
Thanks,
Howie Michaelson
Sun Catcher
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Michael Morningstar
Morningstar Electric
PO Box 1494
Mount Shasta, CA 96067
530-921-0560
mjmornings...@gmail.com
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