All,
Thanks for the thoughts and feedback about EG4 and Lithium in
general. I'm disappointed to see the overall negative feedback
about EG4, but not overly surprised. I was hoping to hear from
folks who previously had decent things to say about them (E.G.
Peter Giroux, Carl Hansen) would chime in with updated reviews. I
have been seduced into using relatively new products that
promised to improve upon "sliced bread" before, only to more
times than not, end up fruI'strated with wasted time and reputation.
For our work in VT, LiFePO4 batteries, so far, are enough of an
improvement over lead acid (particularly for Off-Grid), that if
the client is willing to spend the money, I encourage them to go
that route. There are certainly plenty of on going issues with
many of these relatively new products, some larger headaches than
I'm happy about. On balance however, my calculus leans heavily
toward advantage Lithium. We can make work-arounds for most of
the immediate problems, and their documentable efficiency and low
maintenance (along with fewer holes in my clothes) win the
argument for me.
I have yet to see a BMS failure, but I'm sure I'll have the
chance to solve that problem. I'm also annoyed that the inverter
sales teams have chosen to market the new hybrid inverters as
compatible with Lead-Acid, because as has been noted, as they
currently are configured, Lead-Acid management has been a mostly
a slipshod afterthought. There are several other areas they will
need to focus before I would deem the ready-for-prime-time.
However, as best I can tell, there is intense competition for
market share right now, so if enough of the installer base pushes
for these necessary changes, they will do there best to
accommodate us.
The areas I see needing significant improvements:
* Rock solid BMS and and battery-inverter communication
(standard industry wide protocols?)
* True Lead-Acid programming capabilities
* More finesse with the AGS controls
And, again, if anyone has recent positive reports about EG4
equipment, I'd be happy to hear about them on or off list.
Howie Michaelson
Sun Catcher
On Sat, Feb 17, 2024 at 1:16 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches
<re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
Drake:
I prefer the UnigyII VRLA batteries. Full river 2 volt L-16s
are pretty good and they allow one string configuration in
larger AH settings.
I agree that as features grow so does complexity. However
there is no substitute for good remote monitoring and
control. I can understand much better the operation of
systems with easy access to historic data and I save a
butt-load of driving. I wish the Outback and Sunny Island
files could be obtained remotely for better analysis.
William
Miller Solar
17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
805-438-5600
www.millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/>
CA Lic. 773985
*From:*RE-wrenches
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf
Of *Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches
*Sent:* Saturday, February 17, 2024 9:43 AM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Cc:* drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] EG4 Equipment
I fully agree that off grid solar has taken a major downturn.
Once the equipment became software based, the reliability
dropped. Sure, there are nice features available with these
cyber enhanced systems, but the cost in reliability makes
being energy independent off the grid hard to accomplish.
There are good reports on Samlex products. Has anyone tried
their new 120/240 split phase units? Are they stack-able yet?
As far as batteries go, I'm pretty much in the Lead Head
club, especially for off grid. That being said, lead acid
batteries, especially AGMs have gotten really expensive and
it seems the quality isn't what it used to be.
What is the best AGM battery these days?
Thanks,
Drake
---
On 2024-02-16 17:02, Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches wrote:
We gave EG4 and Signature another chance after promises
from their dealer oriented support department that we
could expect better service from them. We had an EG4 BMS
crap out a couple months ago after only a few months.
Lots and lots of communications with Signature and we
still don't have a BMS or replacement battery. It's been
a shit show with them. I think we are going to remove
them and install 3rd party BMS's and find some use for
them. Maybe donate them. We've only had luck with
Schneider/Discover pairings in closed loop. A large
system we did with Sol-Arks never really worked in Closed
loop, despite Discover coming to the site. Most likely
it's a Sol-Ark issue, but we've reached Sol-Arks
technical expertise limits. Even with Schneider/AES,
there have been some issues that are causing me to
re-consider Li for offgrid. I just had a conversation
this morning with a long time off-grid pro and he said
the same thing. It used to be, we'd install a wet lead
acid bank and then ten years would pass before hearing
from the client when it was time for another bank.
Sometimes fifteen years. Our call backs with systems over
the last ten years, first with a decline in equipment
quality and then the switch to Li are costing us too much
money and causing a lot of heartburn for our clients.
Rant Over
On Fri, Feb 16, 2024 at 12:57 PM Howie Michaelson via
RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
Hi All,
I've searched the archives for info pertaining to EG4
inverters and batteries. The comments have been
mostly positive. I have stayed away from EG4 until
now in part, for the reason the Michael Morningstar
suggested last June - that is, they seemed very
oriented to the DIY market and not real serious
contenders in the lasting marketplace. However, I was
at RE+ Boston this week and was quite surprised to
see that the EG4 18k inverter is, for all I could
tell, identical to the Fortress Envy 12k, in both
physical layout as well as menu structure. I have
very limited experience with the Envy (having just
installed my 1st one last week, in order to compare
it to the Sol-Ark 15). I don't have any thoughts
about it yet, except that the font on the screen is
quite small and the opening screen is not as
intuitive as the Sol-Ark, but that might just take
familiarizing myself more to the Envy (and/or the EG4).
My question is, for folks who have had either the
Envy or the EG4 inverters installed for a decent
period of time, what is your current take on their
functionality, durability, and for the EG4, the
quality of support? Also, what experience have folks
had similarly with the EG4 LLI batteries? I'm not
unhappy with the Sol-Ark or in general the Fortress
eVault Max battery, but there are some attractive
things about the Envy and potentially the EG4 18k,
and the price point and seemingly smart configuration
of the EG4 LLI batteries are certainly eye-catching.
I'm also currently starting to lean toward using
Lithium batteries and inverters from the same
manufacturer, as I'm growing weary of the mismatching
firmware updates that are causing somewhat frequent
issues between the 2 components. Although the
inverter/battery integrated units (i.e. Sonen, Tesla,
etc.) don't seem ideal, since the market is so
volatile at the moment. If one component fails, I'd
like the option to replace it with a different brand
without having to replace the other component as
well. Using the same manu doesn't necessarily cut
down the problems, but it certainly will help in the
troubleshooting process by hopefully having less of
the "not my problem" or "we haven't seen that
problem" responses from tech support.
I really don't like making forays into bleeding-edge
technologies, so I'm hoping to gain some experienced
insight.
Thanks,
Howie Michaelson
Sun Catcher
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Michael Morningstar
Morningstar Electric
PO Box 1494
Mount Shasta, CA 96067
530-921-0560
mjmornings...@gmail.com
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