I agree. The available pool of "horses" has diminished considering expansion.
Expansion has watered down many aspects of the game. Steroids have had an impact as well. From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Matt & Olga McSorley Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 12:36 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Fixing "Wins" Worse, I think modern bullpen management (which drives me nuts) is built around the save -- a stat invented in the late 60s by Chicago Tribune writer Jerome Holtzman. Can someone help me out here: The other night the Red Sox radio guys were talking about how starters who go above 200 innings are "horses" these days and that lots of people in the game think starting pitchers need a break in the middle of the season to conserve their arms. How the hell did baseball survive for so many decades on four-man rotations where guys routinely threw 300 innings a year? I'm tempted to say the problem is that today's players and pitchers are soft. Am I off base? -- Matt ________________________________ From: Steve Ouellette <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Mon, July 26, 2010 12:10:51 PM Subject: Re: Fixing "Wins" I totally agree that wins are highly overrated ... but saves are an example of a decent counting stat? Saves are one of the WORST counting stats. A whole generation of mediocre pitchers have become rich because they were able to compile "saves" by protecting a three-run lead with no one on for one inning. Steve O On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 10:36 AM, Ray Salemi <[email protected]> wrote: Yesterday we saw that "Wins" as we count them today are a useless pitching stat. They are only vaguely correlated to the skill of a pitcher and can be picked up through sheer luck. That said, I think it would be good to have better "counting" stats for pitchers. Saves are an example of a decent counting stat. They measure pitching in difficult situations. So if I were king of the world (a horrible scenario) I'd like to see the following pitching stats. First a simple rule. All these stats only apply if the tying run is on deck when the pitcher enters the game. They are counted when the pitcher leaves the game. There are two basic stats: 1. The hold -- The team had the lead when the pitcher entered the game and kept it when he left. 2. The blown hold -- The team had the lead or a tie when the pitcher entered the game and didn't have it when he left. This gives us the following: 1. Win -- A hold that happens the inning after a team takes the lead 2. Loss -- A blown hold in a game where the team never regains the lead 3. Save -- A hold at the end of the game 4. Hold -- as defined 2. Blown hold -- as defined So in yesterday's game Oki would have gotten the loss and Aardmsa would have gotten a Win and a Save. Ray -- Author of "FPGA Simulation: A Complete Step-by-Step Guide" www.fpgasimulation.com <http://www.fpgasimulation.com/> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Red Sox Citizens" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] <mailto:redsoxcitizens%[email protected]> . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Red Sox Citizens" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Red Sox Citizens" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Red Sox Citizens" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en.
