Doubtful. They have no authority (or responsibility) for what the
Corporate entity does, really. Nor do they make decisions for the
Corporation.
The law recognizes the registered officers of an Incorporation as
those responsible for its actions. In most cases.
The analogy would be if the membership voted (even in a "democratic"
organization) to have the club do something illegal, it would still be
the club officers who would enact (or not enact) those wishes, and be
liable for them under the law.
Saying, "the members made me do it" wouldn't be a defense.
You choose to follow the member's wishes, or in the worst-case
scenario, you are forced to resign and say you're unable to fulfil them.
Corporations, Partnerships, and so-called "Limited Liability"
Corporations are all handled a little differently, both in general,
and also in different jurisdictions.
For example, in aircraft partnerships, it's common to build those as
an LLC and one should never say they "own an airplane". You say, "I
own a portion of the incorporation that owns the airplane", if you're
truly doing it right.
If someone hears you say you own the plane with Mr. X, and X had a bad
day and put the airplane down through negligence through a roof into
someone's living room, or worse, he loses it and decided to start
dropping grand pianos on unsuspecting motorists from the airplane you
jointly "own", and a lawyer can prove you treated it more as a
"Partnership" than an LLC, his temporary lack of good judgement could
mean your assets are seized until a judge decides your true
relationship with Mr. X.
Far easier to just say "Mr. X crashed the corporation's aircraft" and
hire your own lawyer to make sure you get your money back from the
insurance company during the ensuing legal battle between the
Corporation and Mr. X for the replacement costs of the aircraft.
Most ham club's biggest liability risk (to me anyway) of real losses
comes on tower climbing day. I'm a pain in the ass about hard hats at
our work parties and I bring extra, figuring that even retaining an
average lawyer fir one hour would cost me more than buying everyone at
the site a cheap Home Depot hard hat.
As just one example...
--
Nate Duehr
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 26, 2009, at 19:40, "Gary Schafer" <gascha...@comcast.net> wrote:
Hi Nate,
Can’t members of the club be held liable as well as officers?
73
Gary K4FMX
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
] On Behalf Of Nate Duehr
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 8:31 PM
To: Repeater Builder List
Cc: <repeater-builder@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Site Insurance Vendors
Yeah I know. I just didn't want to depress people further.
If you have "considerable assets", of any kind -- being a club
leader is inherently a very risky position to put yourself in,
financially -- now that corporate rules regarding liability of
organizations have been eviscerated.
Thank Enron and Qwest leadership for the motivation to change the
law the next time you see them.
ARRL says little about this. They have a whole organization
dedicated to clubs that never says a word in any publication about
how to properly set up Amateur organizations from a liability
standpoint.
At least my AOPA membership means they lobby for product liability
changes in aviation. If ARRL ever starts fighting for liability
limits for volunteer organizations in The Beltway instead of the
never-ending BPL fight, I'll be pretty impressed.
--
Nate Duehr
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 26, 2009, at 17:49, Butch Kanvick <hot...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Usually when some one signs a waiver letter, it is not worth the
ink that it is written with.
You cannot assign your rights away before something happens, it
usually means you have just admitted liability with them signing
the letter.
It might slow down litigation by about 5 minutes, but does not mean
anything. It is feel good measure, but good luck when it is used
against you.
Butch, KE7FEL/r
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
From: n...@natetech.com
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 17:12:39 -0700
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Site Insurance Vendors
Check to see if they can later subrogate in cases of negligence or
gross
negligence in your state. In California, I think it's gross
negligence, but
I'd have to check.
Sure they have to defend you, but if they lose... then they can
usually turn
around and sue you.
And... this becomes a conflict of interest, because in States where
they can
subrogate only in cases of GROSS negligence (you have to get the
difference
between negligence and gross negligence here...), they're motivated
to
provide you with a really shoddy defense.
Basically the old adage comes true again -- any lawyer you're not
paying out
of your pocket, isn't looking out for your best interests, they're
looking
to the best interests of their CLIENT. In this case, the insurance
company.
Let's use a real-world example: Someone falls off a tower and is
hurt.
It'd be REALLY easy for any lawyer involved to prove GROSS
negligence today
if everyone climbing didn' t have FORMAL OSHA-Approved climbing
training.
Send one guy up the tower who VOLUNTEERS to do so without modern
training,
and he falls, and you don't have a signed waiver from him -- if
you're an
officer of the organization, be prepared to lose your house to his
widow.
This is the kind of stuff that keeps club Presidents and officers
awake at
night when it's time to replace antennas.
Nate
-----Original Message-----
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dave Gomberg
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 3:06 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Site Insurance Vendors
At 13:34 1/26/2009, Nate Duehr wrote:
>Also consider that most of your Bo ard and Officers will be
bankrupt from
>paying for the lawyers to defend themselves (let alone the
organization)
>long before the insurance kicks in... Nate
You picked a bad state, Nate. In California, an insurance company
has a duty to defend, even if they think the suit is baseless or not
covered by your policy (they must defend to ensure that they get that
ruling). And they pay for the defense.
FWIW, I am not a lawyer nor do I play one on TV, this is NOT legal
advice.
>
--
Dave Gomberg, San Francisco NE5EE gomberg1 at wcf dot com
All addresses, phones, etc. at http://www.wcf.com/ham/info.html
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