RE: Securing MS-SQL port 1433 [WAS Re: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL]
Agreed, that original statement reeks of idiocy itself. -Original Message- From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 01 March 2005 16:17 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Securing MS-SQL port 1433 [WAS Re: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL] > As an aside, there are *plenty* of ways to scan for open SQL > Sever ports on your network to find those MSDE installs, so > I'll maintain that anyone with an unsecured SQL Server of any > type is, in fact, and idiot. That's all well and good, but many people using products which include MSDE aren't network administrators, and don't know about port scanning or any other things that network administrators might know about, and they shouldn't have to know those things. Not knowing things like this doesn't make one "and idiot". Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:196946 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Securing MS-SQL port 1433 [WAS Re: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL]
> As an aside, there are *plenty* of ways to scan for open SQL > Sever ports on your network to find those MSDE installs, so > I'll maintain that anyone with an unsecured SQL Server of any > type is, in fact, and idiot. That's all well and good, but many people using products which include MSDE aren't network administrators, and don't know about port scanning or any other things that network administrators might know about, and they shouldn't have to know those things. Not knowing things like this doesn't make one "and idiot". Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:196942 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Securing MS-SQL port 1433 [WAS Re: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL]
On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 09:30:41 -0500, Adrocknaphobia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Don't be security arrogant. > > -Adam > Actually, it should be "Don't be security *ignorant*. -- John Paul Ashenfelter CTO/Transitionpoint (blog) http://www.ashenfelter.com (email) [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:196938 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Securing MS-SQL port 1433 [WAS Re: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL]
Don't be security arrogant. -Adam On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 09:04:27 -0500, John Paul Ashenfelter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 16:54:37 -0500, Dave Watts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Of course you can trust MS-SQL -- it's a great database. I'd > > > ask what kind of idiot leaves port 1433 open on a MS-SQL > > > server in the first place (due to the number of infections > > > with the various worms, apparently a lot)? > > > > This doesn't really have anything to do with the thread, but to answer your > > question quite a few people do this, and those people aren't necessarily > > idiots. Remember that lots of products install some variant of SQL Server, > > like MSDE, for you, so there are quite a few people running SQL Server > > without necessarily knowing it, or thinking about having to secure it. > > And remember that if you're implementing basic security measures -- > specifically installing a firewall -- that you shouldn't automatically > leave port 1433 (or any other non-needed port) open to the world. > > That precaution of course won't prevent problems from someone *inside* > the firewall infecting you, but again, that should be handled by basic > security measures. > > As an aside, there are *plenty* of ways to scan for open SQL Sever > ports on your network to find those MSDE installs, so I'll maintain > that anyone with an unsecured SQL Server of any type is, in fact, and > idiot. > > > Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software > > http://www.figleaf.com/ > > > > Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized > > instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, > > Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. > > Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! > > > > > > > > ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:196930 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Securing MS-SQL port 1433 [WAS Re: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL]
On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 16:54:37 -0500, Dave Watts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Of course you can trust MS-SQL -- it's a great database. I'd > > ask what kind of idiot leaves port 1433 open on a MS-SQL > > server in the first place (due to the number of infections > > with the various worms, apparently a lot)? > > This doesn't really have anything to do with the thread, but to answer your > question quite a few people do this, and those people aren't necessarily > idiots. Remember that lots of products install some variant of SQL Server, > like MSDE, for you, so there are quite a few people running SQL Server > without necessarily knowing it, or thinking about having to secure it. And remember that if you're implementing basic security measures -- specifically installing a firewall -- that you shouldn't automatically leave port 1433 (or any other non-needed port) open to the world. That precaution of course won't prevent problems from someone *inside* the firewall infecting you, but again, that should be handled by basic security measures. As an aside, there are *plenty* of ways to scan for open SQL Sever ports on your network to find those MSDE installs, so I'll maintain that anyone with an unsecured SQL Server of any type is, in fact, and idiot. > Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software > http://www.figleaf.com/ > > Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized > instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, > Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. > Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! > > > ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:196923 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL
>>> I know that we will have to rewrite anything that we have > >Don't you still lose the ability to use views, stored procedures, >triggers and custom functions with the latest versions of MySQL? 4.0.x, using InnoDB tables gives you transaction support. 4.1 supports subqueries 5.0 (alpha) supports views, stored procedures and triggers Years ago I converted some large applications SQL Server 7 to MySQL 3.23 and saw immeidate speed improvements. In January, I released an enterprise application for a large financial company using CFMX 6.1 J2EE and MySQL 4.0. We were originally going to tie the application to an existing Oracle 8i database, but fortunately went with MySQL for reasons I can't go into. I was able to easily migrate 4 years of data from Oracle to MySQL thanks to its transaction support and CFMX's XML handling. The speed of MySQL 4.0 over Oracle 8i is also very noticable. HTH, Adrian ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:196570 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL
On Thursday 24 Feb 2005 17:05 pm, toru okada wrote: > sorry jochem, i am going to have to resepectfully disagree with you I willing to bet if I give MSSQL a huge wodge of data, and then pull the power plug out while it's doing something, it'll take a while to recover too. Hell, even Oracle would (bitter, bitter, experience) ! -- Tom Chiverton Advanced ColdFusion Programmer ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:196487 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL
Jochem van Dieten wrote: > The line about it being 01:30 probably explains most :-) ah you know i love ibm (where would i be without icu4j) but that stuff about their registration process & the docs is so on the mark. don't know if it's because of the docs but their OSS staff are more than helpful for an open source project--though if you ask a particularly dumb question macchiato will remove the tip of your nose w/a bull whip ;) > But for some serious research into the good and bad of Java based > databases: http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/shah01java.html thanks for that. ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:196473 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL
Yep, that would be the one. > I think you mean SQLYog, > I've used it quite a bit in the past and it's very handy > if you aren't a > command line junkie, or can't remember the specific syntax > of a command. > Spike s. isaac dealey 954.927.5117 new epoch : isn't it time for a change? add features without fixtures with the onTap open source framework http://macromedia.breezecentral.com/p49777853/ http://www.sys-con.com/story/?storyid=44477&DE=1 http://www.sys-con.com/story/?storyid=45569&DE=1 http://www.fusiontap.com ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:196433 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL
> Of course you can trust MS-SQL -- it's a great database. I'd > ask what kind of idiot leaves port 1433 open on a MS-SQL > server in the first place (due to the number of infections > with the various worms, apparently a lot)? This doesn't really have anything to do with the thread, but to answer your question quite a few people do this, and those people aren't necessarily idiots. Remember that lots of products install some variant of SQL Server, like MSDE, for you, so there are quite a few people running SQL Server without necessarily knowing it, or thinking about having to secure it. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:196411 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL
Paul Hastings wrote: > Jochem van Dieten wrote: >> >>free Open Source arena there is Firebird, Ingress, Derby and > > derby? well lets see what hani has to say about it: > http://www.jroller.com/page/fate/ The line about it being 01:30 probably explains most :-) But for some serious research into the good and bad of Java based databases: http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/shah01java.html Jochem ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:196376 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL
ah. Sterile and dispassionate. This guy needs to learn how to express himself. :D -- --mattRobertson-- Janitor, MSB Web Systems mysecretbase.com ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:196369 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL
Jochem van Dieten wrote: > free Open Source arena there is Firebird, Ingress, Derby and derby? well lets see what hani has to say about it: http://www.jroller.com/page/fate/ ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:196357 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL
I used the windows version of PostgreSQL on a pretty big project last year. The deployment was on *nix, but I was developing on Windows. The only gotcha I ran into was that the pid file sometimes got left behind if PostgreSQL terminated unexpectedly. That resulted in me not being able to start the PostgreSQL service. The first couple of times that happened I ended up reinstalling PostgreSQL, but the third time I decide to find out exactly what was causing the issue. From what I remember the file is postmaster.pid and is in the data sub-directory of the postgreSQL install. Deleting the file solves the problem. I'm not sure if that issue is fixed in the latest release of the windows install, but I thought I'd save you the pain if it isn't ;) Spike S. Isaac Dealey wrote: >>One is the obvious question of, have you thought of >>PostgreSQL? It is >>much more feature rich than MySQL and is now also a native >>Windows app >>with version 8 (previously it wasn't, at least as >>standard). > > >>-- >>Damien McKenna - Web Developer - >>[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - >>407-804-1014 >>#include > > > Oh sweet... The last time I looked it seemed like their windows port > was way off in the distance, like dreams of taking a shuttle-ride to > Mars for vacation. I've just never really got the time or the money to > set up a 2nd machine at home (yes, I know about vpc) to try and test > with PostgreSQL but now that the windows port is available, I'll > probably see about testing the onTap framework with it like I wanted > to a while back. It already supports MS SQL, MySQL, Oracle and MS > Access. > > > s. isaac dealey 954.927.5117 > new epoch : isn't it time for a change? > > add features without fixtures with > the onTap open source framework > http://www.fusiontap.com > > > > > ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:196352 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL
Keith Gaughan wrote: >Adkins, Randy wrote: > > > >>Another point to consider is in MySQL you can not use >>A default date field to be auto-populated as you can in >>MS-SQL using the NOW() function. >> >>I had to modify my code to accommodate that function. >>But for the most part I rather enjoy MySQL. >> >> > >But OTOH, there's the incredibly useful LAST_INSERT_ID() function. > >K. > > > PostgreSQL has a rather nifty "Serial" datatype, which is functionally the same as "AutoNumber". ;) -- Warm regards, Jordan Michaels Vivio Technologies http://www.viviotech.net/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:196351 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL
Jochem van Dieten wrote: >Damien McKenna wrote: > > >>One is the obvious question of, have you thought of PostgreSQL? It is >>much more feature rich than MySQL and is now also a native Windows app >>with version 8 (previously it wasn't, at least as standard). >> >> > >Hey, you stole my line! > >There are a number of other alternatives to consider, just in the >free Open Source arena there is Firebird, Ingress, Derby and >PostgreSQL (and then I am skipping a few off the less prevalent >ones). All have their pro's and cons, but personally I like >PostgreSQL a lot. >Like Damien said it is much more feature rich then MySQL, and you >can use that to make a migration easier. For instance, instead of >replacing the MS getDate() idiosyncracy with the MySQL Now() >idiosyncracy in all of your CF code, you can just leave your CF >code alone and define a getDate() function in PostgreSQL that >returns the current timestamp. >One function, instead of all your CF code. > >Jochem > > > I'm going to have to agree completely here. Vivio has had a lot of experience converting MS SQL server databases to PostgreSQL databases - and we have nothing but good things to say about PostgreSQL. If you don't want to use MySQL because it doesn't have the advanced SQL features you want, then note that PostgreSQL does. If you don't want to use MySQL because of it's slightly restrictive license, then note that PostgreSQL is released under the BSD license - which means you can pretty much do whatever you want to with it just as long as you keep the copyrights in tact. (Edit it, resell it, include it in your apps, etc etc etc.) PostgreSQL is *awesome* and it's the first database I'd recommend to MS SQL database users as a cost-effective, efficient, and cross-platform alternative. -- Warm regards, Jordan Michaels Vivio Technologies http://www.viviotech.net/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:196350 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL
> One is the obvious question of, have you thought of > PostgreSQL? It is > much more feature rich than MySQL and is now also a native > Windows app > with version 8 (previously it wasn't, at least as > standard). > -- > Damien McKenna - Web Developer - > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - > 407-804-1014 > #include Oh sweet... The last time I looked it seemed like their windows port was way off in the distance, like dreams of taking a shuttle-ride to Mars for vacation. I've just never really got the time or the money to set up a 2nd machine at home (yes, I know about vpc) to try and test with PostgreSQL but now that the windows port is available, I'll probably see about testing the onTap framework with it like I wanted to a while back. It already supports MS SQL, MySQL, Oracle and MS Access. s. isaac dealey 954.927.5117 new epoch : isn't it time for a change? add features without fixtures with the onTap open source framework http://www.fusiontap.com ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:196347 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL
toru okada wrote: > On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 17:45:01 +0100, Jochem van Dieten wrote: >> >> They are not reasons to stay away from MySQL, just examples of >> misconfigured systems and bad behaving OS'es. > > sorry jochem, i am going to have to resepectfully disagree with you > here. This would not happen with a fully ACID compliant database. Even fully ACID compliant depend on the OS they run on. The Single Unix Specification is very specific about the behaviour of fsync(). If a program calls fsync() on a file, the OS has to guarantee the file is written to durable storage and should block until that condition is met. If the OS is unable to do so then the OS should return an error. If the OS lets itself be fooled by the write-back cache of a RAID controller or a harddisk, the OS is to blame, not the program that calls fsync(). Jochem ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:196349 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL
I think you mean SQLYog, I've used it quite a bit in the past and it's very handy if you aren't a command line junkie, or can't remember the specific syntax of a command. Spike S. Isaac Dealey wrote: >>The example I gave was just that, an example. There are >>plenty more such >>as the ability to dump a database table to an SQL script. >>That can be >>handy if you need to send some sample data to another >>developer. > > > There's a 3rd party GUI tool called SqlYob (I think) for MySQL that > handles a lot of these types of things. It's probably not the only one > -- and I still found the interface a bit strange/fidgety, but it > worked. :) > > s. isaac dealey 954.927.5117 > new epoch : isn't it time for a change? > > add features without fixtures with > the onTap open source framework > http://www.fusiontap.com > > > > > ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:196344 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL
toru okada wrote: > On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 17:45:01 +0100, Jochem van Dieten > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>They are not reasons to stay away from MySQL, just examples of >>misconfigured systems and bad behaving OS'es. > > sorry jochem, i am going to have to resepectfully disagree with you > here. This would not happen with a fully ACID compliant database. MySQL *is* ACID, as long as you use the right kind of table handler. InnoDB and BDB tables a completely safe. MyISAM tables are not, but are faster. The choice of which you use is a trade-off. So yes, this is FUD. And worse still because your error has been pointed out and you persist in spreading it. K. - Who's coming to like Firebird/InterBase, and quite likes SQL Server. ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:196343 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL
Adkins, Randy wrote: > Another point to consider is in MySQL you can not use > A default date field to be auto-populated as you can in > MS-SQL using the NOW() function. > > I had to modify my code to accommodate that function. > But for the most part I rather enjoy MySQL. But OTOH, there's the incredibly useful LAST_INSERT_ID() function. K. ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:196345 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL
> On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 11:39:41 -0500, Adkins, Randy > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Well whichever, MySQL does not have that functionality. >> I wish it did. But still, I do enjoy using MySQL rather >> than MS-SQL. But that is my personal choice > Actually, MySQL has an entire field type for handling > timestamps > (TIMESTAMP) that autopopulates on create and then > optionally again on > every update, depending on how you write the query. > Of course that makes your code a bit less portable. Iirc "timestamp" is the official standard name for date/time data types in SQL databases... MS SQL is abberant in using the name "datetime" or "smalldatetime". s. isaac dealey 954.927.5117 new epoch : isn't it time for a change? add features without fixtures with the onTap open source framework http://www.fusiontap.com ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:196337 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL
On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 11:43:28 -0500, John Paul Ashenfelter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Wow, what a load of FUD. Neither LiveJournal nor Wikipedia blame the > outages on MySQL. Nor did I say that. What I said is that because of the power failure their databases where left in a inconsistement state.which by the way is not FUD, it is a fact. toru ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:196339 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL
> The example I gave was just that, an example. There are > plenty more such > as the ability to dump a database table to an SQL script. > That can be > handy if you need to send some sample data to another > developer. There's a 3rd party GUI tool called SqlYob (I think) for MySQL that handles a lot of these types of things. It's probably not the only one -- and I still found the interface a bit strange/fidgety, but it worked. :) s. isaac dealey 954.927.5117 new epoch : isn't it time for a change? add features without fixtures with the onTap open source framework http://www.fusiontap.com ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:196341 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL
On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 17:45:01 +0100, Jochem van Dieten <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > They are not reasons to stay away from MySQL, just examples of > misconfigured systems and bad behaving OS'es. sorry jochem, i am going to have to resepectfully disagree with you here. This would not happen with a fully ACID compliant database. Not the hack that MySql has done to make this happen. I am not saying MySql doesn't have its place with the database market, just that I would never use it for data that was important to a buisness. the D in ACID is for durability. which guarantess that if anything happens irregardless of misconfigured systems and bad behaving OS'es that the database will keep track of the current state. I do not think this is FUD by anymeans. I do not think that LiveJournal nor Wikipedia can say that their databases where left in consistent states on restart. A very simple task for an ACID database toru ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:196335 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL
>> I know that we will have to rewrite anything that we have >> used MSSQL >> functions and MSSQL SQL commands. > Less than you think needs rewritten -- MySQL has lots of > common MS-SQL > (and Oracle, etc) commands built-in or aliased to the > native MySQL > functions. The only difference in very common SQL off the > top of my > head is the non-standard way Microsoft does queries with a > rowlimit -- > MySQL uses SELECT xx LIMIT N etc instead of SELECT TOP > N xx > like MS-SQL. Don't you still lose the ability to use views, stored procedures, triggers and custom functions with the latest versions of MySQL? I think most applications wouldn't suffer from the lack of procedures, triggers or functions, but the lack of views is what I find personally frustrating more than the rest. Although I still like stored procedures for certain tasks and very occasionally a function or trigger. s. isaac dealey 954.927.5117 new epoch : isn't it time for a change? add features without fixtures with the onTap open source framework http://www.fusiontap.com ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:196333 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL
Damien McKenna wrote: > One is the obvious question of, have you thought of PostgreSQL? It is > much more feature rich than MySQL and is now also a native Windows app > with version 8 (previously it wasn't, at least as standard). Hey, you stole my line! There are a number of other alternatives to consider, just in the free Open Source arena there is Firebird, Ingress, Derby and PostgreSQL (and then I am skipping a few off the less prevalent ones). All have their pro's and cons, but personally I like PostgreSQL a lot. Like Damien said it is much more feature rich then MySQL, and you can use that to make a migration easier. For instance, instead of replacing the MS getDate() idiosyncracy with the MySQL Now() idiosyncracy in all of your CF code, you can just leave your CF code alone and define a getDate() function in PostgreSQL that returns the current timestamp. One function, instead of all your CF code. Jochem ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:196338 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL
> Mark W. Breneman wrote: >> >> We are configing a new windows 2000 webserver server and >> the owner walked up >> and just asked out of the blue what if we install MySql >> and not MSSQL. (and >> no this was not a Dilbert Pointy haired Boss sorta >> moment.) We have talked >> about moving to a non Windows platform for our production >> servers in the >> future. And since MSSQL only runs on windows we would >> need to move to >> another database platform. > So am I to understand the poin is not moving to MySQL, but > moving > away from MS SQL Server to something that also runs on > unix? > Because in that case MySQL is just one of the many > options. > Jochem Heh... I hadn't read the original post as thoroughly, and Jochem brings up the most important point that the rest of us missed. Given the choice, I would probably investigate PostgreSQL more thoroughly. s. isaac dealey 954.927.5117 new epoch : isn't it time for a change? add features without fixtures with the onTap open source framework http://www.fusiontap.com ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:196336 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL
> Another point to consider is in MySQL you can not use > A default date field to be auto-populated as you can in > MS-SQL using the NOW() function. GETDATE() -- NOW() Is Access... or does MySQL use now() also? s. isaac dealey 954.927.5117 new epoch : isn't it time for a change? add features without fixtures with the onTap open source framework http://www.fusiontap.com ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:196334 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL
> > Actually, that's not fair at all. You can use T-SQL and the osql > command line just as effectively, though it takes more steps and isn't > as intuitive since MS has forced you to think "GUI". It takes a > similar amount of steps to restore a database through the MySQL > Administrator GUI too if you can at all (so used to command line I > haven't checked...) > Thanks Paul, I wasn't aware that you could do that with MSSQL. Does that allow you to get around those times when CF has still got a DB connection open? The example I gave was just that, an example. There are plenty more such as the ability to dump a database table to an SQL script. That can be handy if you need to send some sample data to another developer. Again, these are things that are handy for a developer. They don't necessarily translate to making it a better DB for live sites, but I still stand by my point that there are times when MySQL will work better for you and times when it won't. The same applies to other options like Hibernate, Prevayler, PostgreSQL, Cloudbase, Oracle etc. Spike -- Stephen Milligan Code poet for hire http://www.spike.org.uk Do you cfeclipse? http://cfeclipse.tigris.org ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:196332 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL
On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 11:39:41 -0500, Adkins, Randy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Well whichever, MySQL does not have that functionality. > I wish it did. But still, I do enjoy using MySQL rather > than MS-SQL. But that is my personal choice Actually, MySQL has an entire field type for handling timestamps (TIMESTAMP) that autopopulates on create and then optionally again on every update, depending on how you write the query. Of course that makes your code a bit less portable. > -Original Message- > From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 11:25 AM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL > > NOW()? Surely you mean GETDATE()? > > -Original Message- > From: Adkins, Randy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 24 February 2005 16:26 > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL > > Another point to consider is in MySQL you can not use A default date > field to be auto-populated as you can in MS-SQL using the NOW() > function. > > I had to modify my code to accommodate that function. > But for the most part I rather enjoy MySQL. > > -Original Message- > From: John Paul Ashenfelter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 11:19 AM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: Re: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL > > On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 10:04:22 -0600, Mark W. Breneman > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > We are in the early stages of *thinking* about moving away from MS SQL > > > server and moving to MySQL. Can anyone give me a quick pro / con > > points for doing this or not doing this? > > I'm a big MySQL fan, and a long-time MS-SQL developer/admin so I've done > a lot of work stradling both camps. I'd give you one fundamental piece > of advice: > > Don't do it just because MySQL is "free" (as in beer) > > Yeah, there's an order of magnitude difference in cost (MS-SQL unlimited > is 5k/proc; MySQL is 500/server if you license it, which is optional for > most folks). But unless you're running *lots* of processors, the savings > are minimal. > > Pros/cons are a little hard to do unless without reference to specific > needs, but based on the scenario you have below (lots of read, little > write) MyISAM tables are probably faster than MS-SQL, and you can run > the app on more operating systems. And it's cheaper on the backup and > staging side since you don't have to pay MS rates for those licenses. > > > We have about 60 Databases set up on on a server that gets low > > traffic. Few thousand users per day. Mostly we use the database as a > > data storage. We have only a few stored procedures that probably > > really don't need to be Stored Procedures. The heaviest load we ever > > put on the SQL server is a few report admin pages where we use SQL to > > sum and count various stats about the users answers. > > MySQL is plenty powerful enough, though it benefits a lot more from > tuning than MS-SQL does in my experience -- both of those tools provide > similar *query* tuning options, but MySQL has hundreds of options that > can be tweaked to provider fine-grained control on tuning the server > while MS-SQL basically does a lot of self-tuning. > > > I know that we will have to rewrite anything that we have used MSSQL > > functions and MSSQL SQL commands. > > Less than you think needs rewritten -- MySQL has lots of common MS-SQL > (and Oracle, etc) commands built-in or aliased to the native MySQL > functions. The only difference in very common SQL off the top of my head > is the non-standard way Microsoft does queries with a rowlimit -- MySQL > uses SELECT xx LIMIT N etc instead of SELECT TOP N xx like > MS-SQL. > > -- > John Paul Ashenfelter > CTO/Transitionpoint > (blog) http://www.ashenfelter.com > (email) [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:196329 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL
On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 08:33:40 -0800, Spike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > That's a ridiculous thing to say without at least qualifying it. Agreed. No better than blithely saying MySQL rules because it's open source :) > MySQL is a far better tool for me than MSSQL because as a developer I > often need to be able to destroy an existing database and replace it > with a backed up version. > > With MySQL I can do that in a matter of a couple of seconds from the > command line, or from a batch file. With MSSQL I need to open up > Enterprise manager and run the restore database backup function praying > that CFMX has dropped any existing connections because if it hasn't I'll > have to go stop that before doing the restore. Actually, that's not fair at all. You can use T-SQL and the osql command line just as effectively, though it takes more steps and isn't as intuitive since MS has forced you to think "GUI". It takes a similar amount of steps to restore a database through the MySQL Administrator GUI too if you can at all (so used to command line I haven't checked...) > There's no doubt that there are times where MSSQL is a better fit, but > blythely assuming that it's always the case is naive at best. Agreed. I mean there's PostgreSQL, Firebird, and Derby in the open source arena alone. And in the commercial world there's also Oracle and DB2, which now are pretty price-competative with MS-SQL. Oh, and things like Cache. And Sybase is still around. It's not always a MS-SQL vs MySQL decision and like Spike implies, knowing the problem you're trying to solve is the important part of the process -- not blithely assuming paying for something (or getting it free) makes it better. -- John Paul Ashenfelter CTO/Transitionpoint (blog) http://www.ashenfelter.com (email) [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:196328 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL
toru okada wrote: > I can give you two good reasons. LiveJournal and Wikipedia. They are not reasons to stay away from MySQL, just examples of misconfigured systems and bad behaving OS'es. What might be a reason is that the default configuration of MySQL offers no data integrity protection in case of power failures. By default MySQL uses MyISAM tables which are not even transactional. When you use InnoDB tables MySQL will make the right calls to the OS to protect your data, but it is very common for OS'es to foobar, both Linux and Windows (just go to the Disk Manager in Windows and read the warning about write-back caching and dataloss). I can think of many reasons not to trust MySQL to protect my data, ranging from sloppy foreign keys to crazy NOT NULL implementations, but power outages are not one of them. You just have to take the right precautions (you did pull the plug out of a running disksystem a few times while doing acceptance tests, didn't you?). Jochem ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:196325 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL
One is the obvious question of, have you thought of PostgreSQL? It is much more feature rich than MySQL and is now also a native Windows app with version 8 (previously it wasn't, at least as standard). -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:196324 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL
OK Spike ;-), I will certainly say it is a sweeping statement but based on experience it is far far better. I am not sure you mean about destroying a DB and restoring? With SQL Server it is certainly far better to totally avoid using Enterprise Manager as it is evil, I will give you that - stick to QAand/or other backup tools such as Red-Gate tools to restore DB's in a few mins, OR take periodic detach db snaps which you can attach in a matter of seconds via QA. -Original Message- From: Spike [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 24 February 2005 16:34 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL That's a ridiculous thing to say without at least qualifying it. MySQL is a far better tool for me than MSSQL because as a developer I often need to be able to destroy an existing database and replace it with a backed up version. With MySQL I can do that in a matter of a couple of seconds from the command line, or from a batch file. With MSSQL I need to open up Enterprise manager and run the restore database backup function praying that CFMX has dropped any existing connections because if it hasn't I'll have to go stop that before doing the restore. There's no doubt that there are times where MSSQL is a better fit, but blythely assuming that it's always the case is naive at best. Spike Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) wrote: > Well, whatever you think of Microsoft, SQL Server is far far better then > mySQL will ever be (cost aside that is!). > > > > -Original Message- > From: Mark W. Breneman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 24 February 2005 16:27 > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL > > Yeah, I thought that question might come up... > > We are configing a new windows 2000 webserver server and the owner walked up > and just asked out of the blue what if we install MySql and not MSSQL. (and > no this was not a Dilbert Pointy haired Boss sorta moment.) We have talked > about moving to a non Windows platform for our production servers in the > future. And since MSSQL only runs on windows we would need to move to > another database platform. We are still in the very early stages of mapping > out our tech plan for what OS platforms we want to use in production. So, > nothing is set in stone just yet. I am primarily just doing research now, so > I thought I would ask people who have worked with MySQL and have good and > bad experiences. > > Thanks, > > > Mark W. Breneman > -Cold Fusion Developer > -Network Administrator > Vivid Media > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > www.vividmedia.com > 608.270.9770 > > -Original Message----- > From: Jochem van Dieten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 10:07 AM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: Re: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL > > Mark W. Breneman wrote: > >> >>We are in the early stages of *thinking* about moving away from MS SQL >>server and moving to MySQL. > > > Why? What do you hope to gain from this move? > > Jochem > > > > > > ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:196322 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL
On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 10:15:34 -0600, toru okada <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I can give you two good reasons. LiveJournal and Wikipedia. In the > past couple of months both of these websites went down due to power > issues in their coloco facilities. It took a bit of effort to bring > both of these sites back up because the database was in an > inconsistent state. Both sites lost data. I would not trust anything > of value in MySql. Wow, what a load of FUD. Neither LiveJournal nor Wikipedia blame the outages on MySQL. For example, the livejournal developer blogged the details of what happened here -- http://www.livejournal.com/community/lj_dev/670215.html. Note that the core problem was that someone TURNED OFF THE POWER TO THE WHOLE COLO. Read through the details, they had hardware issues and configuration issues that they discovered as part of the process. And they only talk about the slow rebuild of the MyISAM indexes, which is a known tradeoff for large MyISAM tables (note also that they're running most of their tables in Innodb instead). I'm less familar w/ what went on with Wikipedia, but Jochem has a post in the thread here http://lists.mysql.com/mysql/180389 which is related to a possible underlying issue in the fsync() implementation in the 2.6 linux kernel (several online sites have mentioned that Wikipedia makes lots of use of the Fedora Core, which is a tradeoff between new features -- and related possibilty of bugs -- and stability/support of a RedHat Enterprise or Suse). Painting with broad strokes without a lot of information isn't real useful. Here's some more FUD... OH MY GOD! THERE ARE WORMS THAT CAN HIT SQL SERVER. Why would I ever trust my data to MS-SQL?!?!?!?? Of course you can trust MS-SQL -- it's a great database. I'd ask what kind of idiot leaves port 1433 open on a MS-SQL server in the first place (due to the number of infections with the various worms, apparently a lot)? The issue LiveJournal had with the disk cache for example, would likely have affected MS-SQL just as readily as MySQL. How about some counter examples about organizations that get a lot of value out of MySQL: Yahoo! (financial particularly, but also travel and others); Sabre (for clearing airline reservations); Cox Cable (for their customer data warehouse) Los Alamos (for terabytes of data) and yes, both Wikipedia and LiveJournal too -- read what they're saying before you write MySQL off because of a post on Slashdot... -- John Paul Ashenfelter CTO/Transitionpoint (blog) http://www.ashenfelter.com (email) [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:196323 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL
Well whichever, MySQL does not have that functionality. I wish it did. But still, I do enjoy using MySQL rather than MS-SQL. But that is my personal choice -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 11:25 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL NOW()? Surely you mean GETDATE()? -Original Message- From: Adkins, Randy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 24 February 2005 16:26 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL Another point to consider is in MySQL you can not use A default date field to be auto-populated as you can in MS-SQL using the NOW() function. I had to modify my code to accommodate that function. But for the most part I rather enjoy MySQL. -Original Message- From: John Paul Ashenfelter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 11:19 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 10:04:22 -0600, Mark W. Breneman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > We are in the early stages of *thinking* about moving away from MS SQL > server and moving to MySQL. Can anyone give me a quick pro / con > points for doing this or not doing this? I'm a big MySQL fan, and a long-time MS-SQL developer/admin so I've done a lot of work stradling both camps. I'd give you one fundamental piece of advice: Don't do it just because MySQL is "free" (as in beer) Yeah, there's an order of magnitude difference in cost (MS-SQL unlimited is 5k/proc; MySQL is 500/server if you license it, which is optional for most folks). But unless you're running *lots* of processors, the savings are minimal. Pros/cons are a little hard to do unless without reference to specific needs, but based on the scenario you have below (lots of read, little write) MyISAM tables are probably faster than MS-SQL, and you can run the app on more operating systems. And it's cheaper on the backup and staging side since you don't have to pay MS rates for those licenses. > We have about 60 Databases set up on on a server that gets low > traffic. Few thousand users per day. Mostly we use the database as a > data storage. We have only a few stored procedures that probably > really don't need to be Stored Procedures. The heaviest load we ever > put on the SQL server is a few report admin pages where we use SQL to > sum and count various stats about the users answers. MySQL is plenty powerful enough, though it benefits a lot more from tuning than MS-SQL does in my experience -- both of those tools provide similar *query* tuning options, but MySQL has hundreds of options that can be tweaked to provider fine-grained control on tuning the server while MS-SQL basically does a lot of self-tuning. > I know that we will have to rewrite anything that we have used MSSQL > functions and MSSQL SQL commands. Less than you think needs rewritten -- MySQL has lots of common MS-SQL (and Oracle, etc) commands built-in or aliased to the native MySQL functions. The only difference in very common SQL off the top of my head is the non-standard way Microsoft does queries with a rowlimit -- MySQL uses SELECT xx LIMIT N etc instead of SELECT TOP N xx like MS-SQL. -- John Paul Ashenfelter CTO/Transitionpoint (blog) http://www.ashenfelter.com (email) [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:196320 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL
If I am not mistaken in that is a new feature in MySql 4.1. We just dealt with this issue for a client that wanted to run their CFMX/MSSQL site on a Mac Blue Dragon/MySQL server. If I recall correctly in 4.1 you can control how the auto-populated date field works. We have two date fields in each table, recorddate and recordupdateddate. Mark W. Breneman -Cold Fusion Developer -Network Administrator Vivid Media [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.vividmedia.com 608.270.9770 -Original Message- From: Adkins, Randy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 10:26 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL Another point to consider is in MySQL you can not use A default date field to be auto-populated as you can in MS-SQL using the NOW() function. I had to modify my code to accommodate that function. But for the most part I rather enjoy MySQL. -Original Message- From: John Paul Ashenfelter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 11:19 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 10:04:22 -0600, Mark W. Breneman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > We are in the early stages of *thinking* about moving away from MS SQL > server and moving to MySQL. Can anyone give me a quick pro / con > points for doing this or not doing this? I'm a big MySQL fan, and a long-time MS-SQL developer/admin so I've done a lot of work stradling both camps. I'd give you one fundamental piece of advice: Don't do it just because MySQL is "free" (as in beer) Yeah, there's an order of magnitude difference in cost (MS-SQL unlimited is 5k/proc; MySQL is 500/server if you license it, which is optional for most folks). But unless you're running *lots* of processors, the savings are minimal. Pros/cons are a little hard to do unless without reference to specific needs, but based on the scenario you have below (lots of read, little write) MyISAM tables are probably faster than MS-SQL, and you can run the app on more operating systems. And it's cheaper on the backup and staging side since you don't have to pay MS rates for those licenses. > We have about 60 Databases set up on on a server that gets low > traffic. Few thousand users per day. Mostly we use the database as a > data storage. We have only a few stored procedures that probably > really don't need to be Stored Procedures. The heaviest load we ever > put on the SQL server is a few report admin pages where we use SQL to > sum and count various stats about the users answers. MySQL is plenty powerful enough, though it benefits a lot more from tuning than MS-SQL does in my experience -- both of those tools provide similar *query* tuning options, but MySQL has hundreds of options that can be tweaked to provider fine-grained control on tuning the server while MS-SQL basically does a lot of self-tuning. > I know that we will have to rewrite anything that we have used MSSQL > functions and MSSQL SQL commands. Less than you think needs rewritten -- MySQL has lots of common MS-SQL (and Oracle, etc) commands built-in or aliased to the native MySQL functions. The only difference in very common SQL off the top of my head is the non-standard way Microsoft does queries with a rowlimit -- MySQL uses SELECT xx LIMIT N etc instead of SELECT TOP N xx like MS-SQL. -- John Paul Ashenfelter CTO/Transitionpoint (blog) http://www.ashenfelter.com (email) [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:196318 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL
That's a ridiculous thing to say without at least qualifying it. MySQL is a far better tool for me than MSSQL because as a developer I often need to be able to destroy an existing database and replace it with a backed up version. With MySQL I can do that in a matter of a couple of seconds from the command line, or from a batch file. With MSSQL I need to open up Enterprise manager and run the restore database backup function praying that CFMX has dropped any existing connections because if it hasn't I'll have to go stop that before doing the restore. There's no doubt that there are times where MSSQL is a better fit, but blythely assuming that it's always the case is naive at best. Spike Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) wrote: > Well, whatever you think of Microsoft, SQL Server is far far better then > mySQL will ever be (cost aside that is!). > > > > -Original Message- > From: Mark W. Breneman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 24 February 2005 16:27 > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL > > Yeah, I thought that question might come up... > > We are configing a new windows 2000 webserver server and the owner walked up > and just asked out of the blue what if we install MySql and not MSSQL. (and > no this was not a Dilbert Pointy haired Boss sorta moment.) We have talked > about moving to a non Windows platform for our production servers in the > future. And since MSSQL only runs on windows we would need to move to > another database platform. We are still in the very early stages of mapping > out our tech plan for what OS platforms we want to use in production. So, > nothing is set in stone just yet. I am primarily just doing research now, so > I thought I would ask people who have worked with MySQL and have good and > bad experiences. > > Thanks, > > > Mark W. Breneman > -Cold Fusion Developer > -Network Administrator > Vivid Media > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > www.vividmedia.com > 608.270.9770 > > -Original Message----- > From: Jochem van Dieten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 10:07 AM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: Re: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL > > Mark W. Breneman wrote: > >> >>We are in the early stages of *thinking* about moving away from MS SQL >>server and moving to MySQL. > > > Why? What do you hope to gain from this move? > > Jochem > > > > > > ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:196316 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL
Mark W. Breneman wrote: > > We are configing a new windows 2000 webserver server and the owner walked up > and just asked out of the blue what if we install MySql and not MSSQL. (and > no this was not a Dilbert Pointy haired Boss sorta moment.) We have talked > about moving to a non Windows platform for our production servers in the > future. And since MSSQL only runs on windows we would need to move to > another database platform. So am I to understand the poin is not moving to MySQL, but moving away from MS SQL Server to something that also runs on unix? Because in that case MySQL is just one of the many options. Jochem ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:196315 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL
NOW()? Surely you mean GETDATE()? -Original Message- From: Adkins, Randy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 24 February 2005 16:26 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL Another point to consider is in MySQL you can not use A default date field to be auto-populated as you can in MS-SQL using the NOW() function. I had to modify my code to accommodate that function. But for the most part I rather enjoy MySQL. -Original Message- From: John Paul Ashenfelter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 11:19 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 10:04:22 -0600, Mark W. Breneman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > We are in the early stages of *thinking* about moving away from MS SQL > server and moving to MySQL. Can anyone give me a quick pro / con > points for doing this or not doing this? I'm a big MySQL fan, and a long-time MS-SQL developer/admin so I've done a lot of work stradling both camps. I'd give you one fundamental piece of advice: Don't do it just because MySQL is "free" (as in beer) Yeah, there's an order of magnitude difference in cost (MS-SQL unlimited is 5k/proc; MySQL is 500/server if you license it, which is optional for most folks). But unless you're running *lots* of processors, the savings are minimal. Pros/cons are a little hard to do unless without reference to specific needs, but based on the scenario you have below (lots of read, little write) MyISAM tables are probably faster than MS-SQL, and you can run the app on more operating systems. And it's cheaper on the backup and staging side since you don't have to pay MS rates for those licenses. > We have about 60 Databases set up on on a server that gets low > traffic. Few thousand users per day. Mostly we use the database as a > data storage. We have only a few stored procedures that probably > really don't need to be Stored Procedures. The heaviest load we ever > put on the SQL server is a few report admin pages where we use SQL to > sum and count various stats about the users answers. MySQL is plenty powerful enough, though it benefits a lot more from tuning than MS-SQL does in my experience -- both of those tools provide similar *query* tuning options, but MySQL has hundreds of options that can be tweaked to provider fine-grained control on tuning the server while MS-SQL basically does a lot of self-tuning. > I know that we will have to rewrite anything that we have used MSSQL > functions and MSSQL SQL commands. Less than you think needs rewritten -- MySQL has lots of common MS-SQL (and Oracle, etc) commands built-in or aliased to the native MySQL functions. The only difference in very common SQL off the top of my head is the non-standard way Microsoft does queries with a rowlimit -- MySQL uses SELECT xx LIMIT N etc instead of SELECT TOP N xx like MS-SQL. -- John Paul Ashenfelter CTO/Transitionpoint (blog) http://www.ashenfelter.com (email) [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:196314 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL
Well, whatever you think of Microsoft, SQL Server is far far better then mySQL will ever be (cost aside that is!). -Original Message- From: Mark W. Breneman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 24 February 2005 16:27 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL Yeah, I thought that question might come up... We are configing a new windows 2000 webserver server and the owner walked up and just asked out of the blue what if we install MySql and not MSSQL. (and no this was not a Dilbert Pointy haired Boss sorta moment.) We have talked about moving to a non Windows platform for our production servers in the future. And since MSSQL only runs on windows we would need to move to another database platform. We are still in the very early stages of mapping out our tech plan for what OS platforms we want to use in production. So, nothing is set in stone just yet. I am primarily just doing research now, so I thought I would ask people who have worked with MySQL and have good and bad experiences. Thanks, Mark W. Breneman -Cold Fusion Developer -Network Administrator Vivid Media [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.vividmedia.com 608.270.9770 -Original Message- From: Jochem van Dieten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 10:07 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL Mark W. Breneman wrote: > > We are in the early stages of *thinking* about moving away from MS SQL > server and moving to MySQL. Why? What do you hope to gain from this move? Jochem ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:196313 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL
Another point to consider is in MySQL you can not use A default date field to be auto-populated as you can in MS-SQL using the NOW() function. I had to modify my code to accommodate that function. But for the most part I rather enjoy MySQL. -Original Message- From: John Paul Ashenfelter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 11:19 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 10:04:22 -0600, Mark W. Breneman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > We are in the early stages of *thinking* about moving away from MS SQL > server and moving to MySQL. Can anyone give me a quick pro / con > points for doing this or not doing this? I'm a big MySQL fan, and a long-time MS-SQL developer/admin so I've done a lot of work stradling both camps. I'd give you one fundamental piece of advice: Don't do it just because MySQL is "free" (as in beer) Yeah, there's an order of magnitude difference in cost (MS-SQL unlimited is 5k/proc; MySQL is 500/server if you license it, which is optional for most folks). But unless you're running *lots* of processors, the savings are minimal. Pros/cons are a little hard to do unless without reference to specific needs, but based on the scenario you have below (lots of read, little write) MyISAM tables are probably faster than MS-SQL, and you can run the app on more operating systems. And it's cheaper on the backup and staging side since you don't have to pay MS rates for those licenses. > We have about 60 Databases set up on on a server that gets low > traffic. Few thousand users per day. Mostly we use the database as a > data storage. We have only a few stored procedures that probably > really don't need to be Stored Procedures. The heaviest load we ever > put on the SQL server is a few report admin pages where we use SQL to > sum and count various stats about the users answers. MySQL is plenty powerful enough, though it benefits a lot more from tuning than MS-SQL does in my experience -- both of those tools provide similar *query* tuning options, but MySQL has hundreds of options that can be tweaked to provider fine-grained control on tuning the server while MS-SQL basically does a lot of self-tuning. > I know that we will have to rewrite anything that we have used MSSQL > functions and MSSQL SQL commands. Less than you think needs rewritten -- MySQL has lots of common MS-SQL (and Oracle, etc) commands built-in or aliased to the native MySQL functions. The only difference in very common SQL off the top of my head is the non-standard way Microsoft does queries with a rowlimit -- MySQL uses SELECT xx LIMIT N etc instead of SELECT TOP N xx like MS-SQL. -- John Paul Ashenfelter CTO/Transitionpoint (blog) http://www.ashenfelter.com (email) [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:196312 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL
Yeah, I thought that question might come up... We are configing a new windows 2000 webserver server and the owner walked up and just asked out of the blue what if we install MySql and not MSSQL. (and no this was not a Dilbert Pointy haired Boss sorta moment.) We have talked about moving to a non Windows platform for our production servers in the future. And since MSSQL only runs on windows we would need to move to another database platform. We are still in the very early stages of mapping out our tech plan for what OS platforms we want to use in production. So, nothing is set in stone just yet. I am primarily just doing research now, so I thought I would ask people who have worked with MySQL and have good and bad experiences. Thanks, Mark W. Breneman -Cold Fusion Developer -Network Administrator Vivid Media [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.vividmedia.com 608.270.9770 -Original Message- From: Jochem van Dieten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 10:07 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL Mark W. Breneman wrote: > > We are in the early stages of *thinking* about moving away from MS SQL > server and moving to MySQL. Why? What do you hope to gain from this move? Jochem ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:196311 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL
On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 10:04:22 -0600, Mark W. Breneman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > We are in the early stages of *thinking* about moving away from MS SQL > server and moving to MySQL. Can anyone give me a quick pro / con points for > doing this or not doing this? I'm a big MySQL fan, and a long-time MS-SQL developer/admin so I've done a lot of work stradling both camps. I'd give you one fundamental piece of advice: Don't do it just because MySQL is "free" (as in beer) Yeah, there's an order of magnitude difference in cost (MS-SQL unlimited is 5k/proc; MySQL is 500/server if you license it, which is optional for most folks). But unless you're running *lots* of processors, the savings are minimal. Pros/cons are a little hard to do unless without reference to specific needs, but based on the scenario you have below (lots of read, little write) MyISAM tables are probably faster than MS-SQL, and you can run the app on more operating systems. And it's cheaper on the backup and staging side since you don't have to pay MS rates for those licenses. > We have about 60 Databases set up on on a server that gets low traffic. Few > thousand users per day. Mostly we use the database as a data storage. We > have only a few stored procedures that probably really don't need to be > Stored Procedures. The heaviest load we ever put on the SQL server is a few > report admin pages where we use SQL to sum and count various stats about the > users answers. MySQL is plenty powerful enough, though it benefits a lot more from tuning than MS-SQL does in my experience -- both of those tools provide similar *query* tuning options, but MySQL has hundreds of options that can be tweaked to provider fine-grained control on tuning the server while MS-SQL basically does a lot of self-tuning. > I know that we will have to rewrite anything that we have used MSSQL > functions and MSSQL SQL commands. Less than you think needs rewritten -- MySQL has lots of common MS-SQL (and Oracle, etc) commands built-in or aliased to the native MySQL functions. The only difference in very common SQL off the top of my head is the non-standard way Microsoft does queries with a rowlimit -- MySQL uses SELECT xx LIMIT N etc instead of SELECT TOP N xx like MS-SQL. -- John Paul Ashenfelter CTO/Transitionpoint (blog) http://www.ashenfelter.com (email) [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:196310 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL
I can give you two good reasons. LiveJournal and Wikipedia. In the past couple of months both of these websites went down due to power issues in their coloco facilities. It took a bit of effort to bring both of these sites back up because the database was in an inconsistent state. Both sites lost data. I would not trust anything of value in MySql. toru On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 17:06:50 +0100, Jochem van Dieten <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Mark W. Breneman wrote: > > > > We are in the early stages of *thinking* about moving away from MS SQL > > server and moving to MySQL. > > Why? What do you hope to gain from this move? > > Jochem > > ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:196309 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Pro/Con Moving from MSSQL to MySQL
Mark W. Breneman wrote: > > We are in the early stages of *thinking* about moving away from MS SQL > server and moving to MySQL. Why? What do you hope to gain from this move? Jochem ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:196308 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
