Re: [EVDL] Tesla funds research into Li ion testing at Dalhousie Uinversity
More news on subject: Fortune (JB Straubel and Jeff Dahn photo op) http://fortune.com/2015/06/17/meet-teslas-new-weapon-a-battery-scientist/ The Financial Post http://business.financialpost.com/news/transportation/tesla-motors-inc-turns-to-dalhousie-university-professor-for-help-with-battery-technology Quartz http://qz.com/431718/tesla-has-nabbed-preeminent-battery-researcher-and-shareholders-love-it/ On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 9:57 PM, Michael Ross wrote: > > " > Dahn Lab Begins 5-year Tesla Partnership > > June 8, 2016 > NSERC, Dalhousie University and Tesla Motors have established the > NSERC/Tesla Canada Industrial Research Chair that Jeff Dahn will hold from > June 8, 2016 to > > June 7, 2021. It is possible that the Chair will be renewed in 2021. The > goals of the Chair are to develop lithium ion batteries with longer > lifetime, higher energy density and lower cost. As Dahn says, "Our goal is > to do something useful, not publish papers in Nature and similar journals > . > " > > https://www.dal.ca/diff/dahn/news.html > > -- > To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. > Thomas A. Edison > <http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html> > > A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. > *Warren Buffet* > > Michael E. Ross > (919) 585-6737 Land > (919) 576-0824 <https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones> Mobile and > Google Phone > > michael.e.r...@gmail.com > > > > -- To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison <http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html> A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 585-6737 Land (919) 576-0824 <https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones> Mobile and Google Phone michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20161005/7cfe7191/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Best charge rate for longevity
Not true, we charge to 5vdc per cell all the time for dragsters and don't have any degradation or fires. -- View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Best-charge-rate-for-longevity-tp4683988p4683992.html Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Tesla funds research into Li ion testing at Dalhousie Uinversity
" Dahn Lab Begins 5-year Tesla Partnership June 8, 2016 NSERC, Dalhousie University and Tesla Motors have established the NSERC/Tesla Canada Industrial Research Chair that Jeff Dahn will hold from June 8, 2016 to June 7, 2021. It is possible that the Chair will be renewed in 2021. The goals of the Chair are to develop lithium ion batteries with longer lifetime, higher energy density and lower cost. As Dahn says, "Our goal is to do something useful, not publish papers in Nature and similar journals . " https://www.dal.ca/diff/dahn/news.html -- To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison <http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html> A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 585-6737 Land (919) 576-0824 <https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones> Mobile and Google Phone michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20161005/9f791561/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Best charge rate for longevity
This sounds sort of like advice for a Prius. Toyota's nickel metal hydride packs are a different kettle of fish entirely and they can be "refreshed." but not by the procedure mentioned. I don't know if new Priii are different, could be they are using Li. I am out of touch. On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 5:14 PM, Rush Dougherty via EV wrote: > Or you can follow the advice of an engineer from Tennessee that Tom True > talked > to - > "The final recommendation from him was to discharge the pack to 10 miles > or so > in range (according to the instrumentation), and fully recharge about once > a > month to "refresh" the battery" > Which totally contradicts what the engineer said in the sentence before, " > Explaining that if you let the battery pack get below 10%, it would > typically > brick (not allow a charge), and above 90%, that your could experience a > thermal > even ( Thermal runaway & fire)." > > Confusing, right? > > Rush Dougherty > Tucson AZ 85719 > > > > -Original Message- > > From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Mark Hanson > via EV > > Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 1:34 PM > > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List > > Subject: [EVDL] Best charge rate for longevity > > > > Thanks folks > > > > So if the Leaf charges at the 100% setting to 4.12vpc and 80% to 4.05vpc > and > battery > > university says max life of 2k cycles is at 4.00vpc then I should change > my > charge cut off at > > 80% for daily short trips of 15 miles typical. Plus since balancing > occurs > all the time there's > > no need to charge at 100% except for long trips Best regards Mark Sent > from my > iPhone > > ___ > > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag > racing > at NEDRA > > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/ > group/NEDRA) > > -- To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison <http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html> A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 585-6737 Land (919) 576-0824 <https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones> Mobile and Google Phone michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20161005/0a4f9350/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Best charge rate for longevity
The total charge of 4.2vdc is not going to reduce the life span of the batteries unless left at that voltage for a long period of charge. Tesla's are charged using the super charger to maximum of 4.2vdc, but the recommendation is to drive it as soon as possible so as to not leave the voltage at the maximum. Chances are you wont own the car when the batteries are starting to degrade anyway. -- View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Best-charge-rate-for-longevity-tp4683988p4683991.html Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Best charge rate for longevity
Can you share link to the webpage you are referencing? I don't believe you can measure voltage and calculate such a thing. Voltage is simply not a very good way to determine SOC. Charging to 100% is not going to cause a "thermal event." High temperatures caused by large discharge (which lowers the SOC) is one way to get them hot. Some chemistries (early Leaf for example) deteriorate at an accelerated rate when charged to a high SOC, AND exposed to too high an ambient temperature - such as gridlock in Phoenix where they experienced poor life performance of early Leafs. Pay attention to the "AND." 100% SOC or temperature alone may not damage a li ion cell. But so much of thise depends on thigs we don't know, can't know, are told incorrectly, and so on. You pretty much should use whatever procedure the EV manufacturer says to use for charging a pack. Don't try to second guess them. You are unlikely to accumulate the necessary information to do it in a more effective and rational way. In numerous cases with older BEVs the manufacturers are working from their own poorly conceived testing and basic understanding. Presumably newer BEVs are better, but who knows. I trust Tesla, but not sure about anyone else. On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 4:34 PM, Mark Hanson via EV wrote: > Thanks folks > > So if the Leaf charges at the 100% setting to 4.12vpc and 80% to 4.05vpc > and battery university says max life of 2k cycles is at 4.00vpc then I > should change my charge cut off at 80% for daily short trips of 15 miles > typical. Plus since balancing occurs all the time there's no need to > charge at 100% except for long trips > Best regards > Mark > Sent from my iPhone > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/ > group/NEDRA) > > -- To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison <http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html> A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 585-6737 Land (919) 576-0824 <https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones> Mobile and Google Phone michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part ------ An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20161005/48375ec5/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Should I buy...?
If you are going to buy a car, the first criteria is that you like the car more than the others you looked at. Too many buy because its cheap, bad decision. Who wants to drive a cheap car they don't like, a fool. -- View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Should-I-buy-tp4683944p4683946.html Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Best charge rate for longevity
Hi Mike etc, The cell voltage longevity data is from the previous email I sent to the list regarding www.batteryuniversity.com data (can’t remember right now, wrote down the article number when I sent it from my iPhone). I was questioning the 2013 Leaf manual assertion that charging the battery to 80% resulted in a longer lasting battery, looking for *real* data (since they dropped the requirement in 2014 – apparently for marketing MPC reasons). But the Battery University data says that charging to a slightly lower final cell voltage of 4.05V is 1200-2000 cycles (*much* more than 4.1V = 600-1000 cycles, 4.2V = 300-500 cycles) and since the Leaf actively balances, not just at 100% it seems that the Nissan assertion that *80% charging* (especially when doing short distances like my son does daily at 16 miles) makes sense. Cor I think mentioned that at “100%” for the Leaf is 4.12V so that’s in the 600-1000 cycles. Si *if* you believe the data charging at 80% (2K cycles) will result in a battery that will last *twice* as long as one that is charged to 100% (1K cycles). (May not be exactly twice since the 80% cycles are, well 80%). Have a renewable energy day, Mark Mark E. Hanson 184 Vista Lane Fincastle, VA 24090 540-473-1248 phone & FAX, 540-816-0812 cell REEVA: community service RE & EV project club Website: www.REEVAdiy.org (See Project Gallery) UL Certified PV Installer My RE&EV Circuits: www.EVDL.org/lib/mh From: Michael Ross [mailto:michael.e.r...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 7:16 PM To: Mark Hanson; Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] Best charge rate for longevity Can you share link to the webpage you are referencing? I don't believe you can measure voltage and calculate such a thing. Voltage is simply not a very good way to determine SOC. Charging to 100% is not going to cause a "thermal event." High temperatures caused by large discharge (which lowers the SOC) is one way to get them hot. Some chemistries (early Leaf for example) deteriorate at an accelerated rate when charged to a high SOC, AND exposed to too high an ambient temperature - such as gridlock in Phoenix where they experienced poor life performance of early Leafs. Pay attention to the "AND." 100% SOC or temperature alone may not damage a li ion cell. But so much of thise depends on thigs we don't know, can't know, are told incorrectly, and so on. You pretty much should use whatever procedure the EV manufacturer says to use for charging a pack. Don't try to second guess them. You are unlikely to accumulate the necessary information to do it in a more effective and rational way. In numerous cases with older BEVs the manufacturers are working from their own poorly conceived testing and basic understanding. Presumably newer BEVs are better, but who knows. I trust Tesla, but not sure about anyone else. On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 4:34 PM, Mark Hanson via EV wrote: Thanks folks So if the Leaf charges at the 100% setting to 4.12vpc and 80% to 4.05vpc and battery university says max life of 2k cycles is at 4.00vpc then I should change my charge cut off at 80% for daily short trips of 15 miles typical. Plus since balancing occurs all the time there's no need to charge at 100% except for long trips Best regards Mark Sent from my iPhone ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. <http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html> Thomas A. Edison A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. Warren Buffet Michael E. Ross (919) 585-6737 Land <https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones> (919) 576-0824 Mobile and Google Phone michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20161005/280410e7/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Best charge rate for longevity (not guessgauge)
So, how does the car computer know when the battery is discharged? I can understand the estimated range might be affected by not doing a full discharge occasionally. But what about the bars or other state of charge reading? Is that determined also by an amp-hours in, amp-hours out comparison? If so, and it shows 1 bar left, how do you know if you can keep driving for a while before the voltage gets too low and it shuts off? Peri -- Original Message -- From: "Robert Bruninga via EV" To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" Sent: 05-Oct-16 2:28:33 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] Best charge rate for longevity (not guessgauge) Depends on what you mean. If you mean to never charge until you always get down to 10%, then that is a bad idea. But if you are meaning to always charge (top-off) after every use, and then *occasionally* do the discharge to 10mi followed by a full charge, then absolutely, that is a best way to do it. The frequent topping off maintains the longest possible battery life, but at the "cost" of slowly having the car computer loose track of actual capacity since it rarelyl sees a deep discharge and so loses track of whre the "bottom" really is.That's why the recommendation to occasionally discharge down to 10% so that the CPU re-learns where the bottom is and can re-calibrate the GUEGAUGE... I had this discussion with a Nissan Battery engineer who just happened to sit next to me on the plane. He said the reason the car MANUAL says to not frequently top-off but to only charge when the battery gets low is not so much to protect the life of the battery, but so that their PUBLIC RELATIONS staff is not deluged with onwers complainng all the time that the guessgauge told them 62 miles when they only got 61, etc... By making sure the users were charging from a low state, the guessgauge can do a more accurate job. (at the cost of long term life)... Bob, WB4aPR -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Rush Dougherty via EV Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 5:15 PM To: 'Mark Hanson'; 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List' Subject: Re: [EVDL] Best charge rate for longevity Or you can follow the advice of an engineer from Tennessee that Tom True talked to - "The final recommendation from him was to discharge the pack to 10 miles or so in range (according to the instrumentation), and fully recharge about once a month to "refresh" the battery" Which totally contradicts what the engineer said in the sentence before, " Explaining that if you let the battery pack get below 10%, it would typically brick (not allow a charge), and above 90%, that your could experience a thermal even ( Thermal runaway & fire)." Confusing, right? Rush Dougherty Tucson AZ 85719 -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Mark Hanson via EV Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 1:34 PM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: [EVDL] Best charge rate for longevity Thanks folks So if the Leaf charges at the 100% setting to 4.12vpc and 80% to 4.05vpc and battery university says max life of 2k cycles is at 4.00vpc then I should change my charge cut off at 80% for daily short trips of 15 miles typical. Plus since balancing occurs all the time there's no need to charge at 100% except for long trips Best regards Mark Sent from my iPhone ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries - Battery University
Bob, I believe at 50 or 55 MPH constant level road you see about 12kW draw. Since the pack is almost 400V, this means about 30A. EVs typically are driving for about 1-2% of the time, for the rest they are charging or resting. But this is irrelevant - there is no relation between driving current and balancing, as long as you are not trying to *change* the balance while driving (Lee has a balancer that will prop up a weak battery while driving, this is certainly not the intention of the Leaf BMS). The Leaf BMS is only trying to slowly adjust differences between cells in the pack due to imbalance in self-discharge. Good cells have almost no self-discharge. I have a pack of LiFePO4 that were used and some cells were abused. Few of them died, the survivors have a ratio 1:2 in self-discharge rate. It is very small still, only a few mA I estimate that some of the cells are 2mA, others up to 4mA. So the 10mA of the Leaf BMS would only need to balance during 20% of the time to remove the 2mA difference using its 10mA shunts. Since the Leaf BMS is always on, it can balance 24/7/365 so a small balance current adds up and as long as the *difference* in self-discharge between cells is always less than 10mA, it should be able to keep the pack in check. If not, then it is time to get a new pack. From what I have seen, the cells age quite equal in the same pack. Hope this clarifies. Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info http://www.proxim.com This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is prohibited. -Original Message- From: Robert Bruninga [mailto:bruni...@usna.edu] Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 12:25 PM To: Cor van de Water; Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: RE: [EVDL] How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries - Battery University Wow! > the Leaf BMS will still be balancing the cells[all the time], > [because] it has only 10mA balancing capacity... What then is the nomimal discharge current on level ground at 50 MPH? My SWAG guess might be 10 amps? That means only about 0.1% balancing capability? Maybe Im missing something... Bob -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Cor van de Water via EV Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 2:55 PM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries - Battery University Mark, The Leaf charges to approx 4.12V as "100%" (LeafSpy shows this around actual 90% real SoC - not always consistent, I have seen 89% and over 91%) and to approx 4.05V as "80%" (again, sometimes closer to 4.04 and sometimes closer to 4.06V) The lowest that I have ever seen my Leaf SoC was just above 15% real SoC on LeafSpy with the cells around 3.7V, the Leaf itself indicates this as empty, so I believe that the top and bottom 10+% are not used by the Leaf to avoid the extremes where the internal resistance of the cells rises and heat develops faster, leading to faster degradation. NOTE that even when discharged to 50%, the Leaf BMS will still be balancing the cells, it is always on as it has only 10mA balancing capacity so it is balancing all the time as long as the 12V battery is connected. I have even seen it occasionally balancing a cell with SoC below 20% but it will be much more aggressive at high SoC. Hope this clarifies, Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info http://www.proxim.com This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is prohibited. -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Mark Hanson via EV Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 11:13 AM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Cc: L. David Roper Subject: [EVDL] How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries - Battery University Hi folks It looks like in NMC lithium charging to 4.2 vpc is 300-500 cycles or to 4.1 is 600-1000 cycles or 4.0 is 2400-4000 cycles. Certainly overcharging is bad but I've seen other studies on high mileage Leafs in England that were 100% charged that showed little degradation after 50k miles. Just trying to figure based on real data if charging to 80% which loses the balancing function or going to 100% on my Leaf on each cycle is best. I assume Nissan isn't overcharging their cells on
Re: [EVDL] Best charge rate for longevity (not guessgauge)
Depends on what you mean. If you mean to never charge until you always get down to 10%, then that is a bad idea. But if you are meaning to always charge (top-off) after every use, and then *occasionally* do the discharge to 10mi followed by a full charge, then absolutely, that is a best way to do it. The frequent topping off maintains the longest possible battery life, but at the "cost" of slowly having the car computer loose track of actual capacity since it rarelyl sees a deep discharge and so loses track of whre the "bottom" really is.That's why the recommendation to occasionally discharge down to 10% so that the CPU re-learns where the bottom is and can re-calibrate the GUEGAUGE... I had this discussion with a Nissan Battery engineer who just happened to sit next to me on the plane. He said the reason the car MANUAL says to not frequently top-off but to only charge when the battery gets low is not so much to protect the life of the battery, but so that their PUBLIC RELATIONS staff is not deluged with onwers complainng all the time that the guessgauge told them 62 miles when they only got 61, etc... By making sure the users were charging from a low state, the guessgauge can do a more accurate job. (at the cost of long term life)... Bob, WB4aPR -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Rush Dougherty via EV Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 5:15 PM To: 'Mark Hanson'; 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List' Subject: Re: [EVDL] Best charge rate for longevity Or you can follow the advice of an engineer from Tennessee that Tom True talked to - "The final recommendation from him was to discharge the pack to 10 miles or so in range (according to the instrumentation), and fully recharge about once a month to "refresh" the battery" Which totally contradicts what the engineer said in the sentence before, " Explaining that if you let the battery pack get below 10%, it would typically brick (not allow a charge), and above 90%, that your could experience a thermal even ( Thermal runaway & fire)." Confusing, right? Rush Dougherty Tucson AZ 85719 > -Original Message- > From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Mark Hanson > via EV > Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 1:34 PM > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List > Subject: [EVDL] Best charge rate for longevity > > Thanks folks > > So if the Leaf charges at the 100% setting to 4.12vpc and 80% to > 4.05vpc and battery > university says max life of 2k cycles is at 4.00vpc then I should > change my charge cut off at > 80% for daily short trips of 15 miles typical. Plus since balancing > occurs all the time there's > no need to charge at 100% except for long trips Best regards Mark Sent > from my iPhone > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag > racing at NEDRA > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Best charge rate for longevity
Or you can follow the advice of an engineer from Tennessee that Tom True talked to - "The final recommendation from him was to discharge the pack to 10 miles or so in range (according to the instrumentation), and fully recharge about once a month to "refresh" the battery" Which totally contradicts what the engineer said in the sentence before, " Explaining that if you let the battery pack get below 10%, it would typically brick (not allow a charge), and above 90%, that your could experience a thermal even ( Thermal runaway & fire)." Confusing, right? Rush Dougherty Tucson AZ 85719 > -Original Message- > From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Mark Hanson via EV > Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 1:34 PM > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List > Subject: [EVDL] Best charge rate for longevity > > Thanks folks > > So if the Leaf charges at the 100% setting to 4.12vpc and 80% to 4.05vpc and battery > university says max life of 2k cycles is at 4.00vpc then I should change my charge cut off at > 80% for daily short trips of 15 miles typical. Plus since balancing occurs all the time there's > no need to charge at 100% except for long trips Best regards Mark Sent from my iPhone > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Best charge rate for longevity
Thanks folks So if the Leaf charges at the 100% setting to 4.12vpc and 80% to 4.05vpc and battery university says max life of 2k cycles is at 4.00vpc then I should change my charge cut off at 80% for daily short trips of 15 miles typical. Plus since balancing occurs all the time there's no need to charge at 100% except for long trips Best regards Mark Sent from my iPhone ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries - Battery University
Wow! > the Leaf BMS will still be balancing the cells[all the time], > [because] it has only 10mA balancing capacity... What then is the nomimal discharge current on level ground at 50 MPH? My SWAG guess might be 10 amps? That means only about 0.1% balancing capability? Maybe Im missing something... Bob -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Cor van de Water via EV Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 2:55 PM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries - Battery University Mark, The Leaf charges to approx 4.12V as "100%" (LeafSpy shows this around actual 90% real SoC - not always consistent, I have seen 89% and over 91%) and to approx 4.05V as "80%" (again, sometimes closer to 4.04 and sometimes closer to 4.06V) The lowest that I have ever seen my Leaf SoC was just above 15% real SoC on LeafSpy with the cells around 3.7V, the Leaf itself indicates this as empty, so I believe that the top and bottom 10+% are not used by the Leaf to avoid the extremes where the internal resistance of the cells rises and heat develops faster, leading to faster degradation. NOTE that even when discharged to 50%, the Leaf BMS will still be balancing the cells, it is always on as it has only 10mA balancing capacity so it is balancing all the time as long as the 12V battery is connected. I have even seen it occasionally balancing a cell with SoC below 20% but it will be much more aggressive at high SoC. Hope this clarifies, Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info http://www.proxim.com This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is prohibited. -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Mark Hanson via EV Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 11:13 AM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Cc: L. David Roper Subject: [EVDL] How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries - Battery University Hi folks It looks like in NMC lithium charging to 4.2 vpc is 300-500 cycles or to 4.1 is 600-1000 cycles or 4.0 is 2400-4000 cycles. Certainly overcharging is bad but I've seen other studies on high mileage Leafs in England that were 100% charged that showed little degradation after 50k miles. Just trying to figure based on real data if charging to 80% which loses the balancing function or going to 100% on my Leaf on each cycle is best. I assume Nissan isn't overcharging their cells on each cycle. It looks from the Leaf spy that most cells are at 4.0 volts at 100% charge. Does anyone have EOC data on the Leaf? My son drives it daily 15 miles round trip and then plugs in at home to 100% Thanks mark http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_ batteries Sent from my iPhone ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries - Battery University
Mark, The Leaf charges to approx 4.12V as "100%" (LeafSpy shows this around actual 90% real SoC - not always consistent, I have seen 89% and over 91%) and to approx 4.05V as "80%" (again, sometimes closer to 4.04 and sometimes closer to 4.06V) The lowest that I have ever seen my Leaf SoC was just above 15% real SoC on LeafSpy with the cells around 3.7V, the Leaf itself indicates this as empty, so I believe that the top and bottom 10+% are not used by the Leaf to avoid the extremes where the internal resistance of the cells rises and heat develops faster, leading to faster degradation. NOTE that even when discharged to 50%, the Leaf BMS will still be balancing the cells, it is always on as it has only 10mA balancing capacity so it is balancing all the time as long as the 12V battery is connected. I have even seen it occasionally balancing a cell with SoC below 20% but it will be much more aggressive at high SoC. Hope this clarifies, Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info http://www.proxim.com This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is prohibited. -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Mark Hanson via EV Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 11:13 AM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Cc: L. David Roper Subject: [EVDL] How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries - Battery University Hi folks It looks like in NMC lithium charging to 4.2 vpc is 300-500 cycles or to 4.1 is 600-1000 cycles or 4.0 is 2400-4000 cycles. Certainly overcharging is bad but I've seen other studies on high mileage Leafs in England that were 100% charged that showed little degradation after 50k miles. Just trying to figure based on real data if charging to 80% which loses the balancing function or going to 100% on my Leaf on each cycle is best. I assume Nissan isn't overcharging their cells on each cycle. It looks from the Leaf spy that most cells are at 4.0 volts at 100% charge. Does anyone have EOC data on the Leaf? My son drives it daily 15 miles round trip and then plugs in at home to 100% Thanks mark http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_ batteries Sent from my iPhone ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Russco Manual Needed
Mike Brown via EV wrote: I am looking for a manual for a Russco SC-18-120 or SC-18-120 SO charger. Photocopy would be fine. I would be happy to pay postage & copying, or even the loan of a manual that I could copy myself and return. Please respond off list if you can help. What do you need to know? I have a Russco SC-18-120-SO, and have the manual somewhere (though I didn't find it with a quick search). I even went so far as to trace out the circuit, so I could understand how it worked and fix it. -- How many slams in an old screen door? Depends how loud you shut it. How many slices in a loaf of bread? Depends how thin you cut it. How much good inside a day? Depends how good you live 'em. How much love inside a friend? Depends how much you give 'em. -- Shel Silverstein -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries - Battery University
Hi folks It looks like in NMC lithium charging to 4.2 vpc is 300-500 cycles or to 4.1 is 600-1000 cycles or 4.0 is 2400-4000 cycles. Certainly overcharging is bad but I've seen other studies on high mileage Leafs in England that were 100% charged that showed little degradation after 50k miles. Just trying to figure based on real data if charging to 80% which loses the balancing function or going to 100% on my Leaf on each cycle is best. I assume Nissan isn't overcharging their cells on each cycle. It looks from the Leaf spy that most cells are at 4.0 volts at 100% charge. Does anyone have EOC data on the Leaf? My son drives it daily 15 miles round trip and then plugs in at home to 100% Thanks mark http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries Sent from my iPhone ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Russco Manual Needed
I am looking for a manual for a Russco SC-18-120 or SC-18-120 SO charger. Photocopy would be fine. I would be happy to pay postage & copying, or even the loan of a manual that I could copy myself and return. Please respond off list if you can help. Thanks! Mike Brown ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Answering Mark's question about Battery Monitoring
Sorry for the big POST but my e-mail to Mark from Jay D. bounced. My old e-mail address for him must not be current. - - - - - - It's a small world. I remember you from the EVDL years ago. Yes, I highly recommend the i-MiEV. It's the little car that can, with more effective cargo space than most small "SUVs" and has a much better-engineered battery than Nissan. My 2012 still yields well over the factory ratings, with an 84-mile estimate on the excellent Range Remaining gauge just a couple of weeks ago as I crossed the 61,000 mile mark. The Mitsu RR meter is more accurate than the LEAF guessometer, but is only based on the most recent 15 miles of driving. For observing battery health and all other metrics on the car, there is a great free Android utility called CANIon, https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=emobility.canion&hl=en Here's more info about using it than we can EVer hope to digest. http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1762 A paid app by the name EVBatMon is iPhone compatible, and it is the best way to get an accurate capacity rating other than the Mitsubishi MUT-III tool. CANion does a good job of reporting individual cell voltages and showing the pack's balance, but consensus has BatMon ahead on measuring capacity. http://www.evpositive.com/evbatmon-for-i-miev.html <http://www.evpositive.com/evbatmon-for-i-miev.html> You have to be careful which OBD-II adaptor you purchase, as there are different compatibility lists for CANion and BatMon. Regards, Jay Donnaway Certified Energy Manager- Association of Energy Engineers Resource Conservation Manager Sumner School District 1202 Wood Ave, Sumner WA 98390 253-891-6018 cell 253-314-3830 jay_donna...@sumnersd.org <mailto:jay_donna...@sumnersd.org> -- Steven S Lough PRESIDENT EMERITUS Seattle EV Association Web: www.seattleeva.org 206 524 1351 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20161005/01d740bb/attachment.htm> -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: stevenslough.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 4 bytes Desc: not available URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20161005/01d740bb/attachment.vcf> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] To fully charge or not to fully charge that isthequestion
__ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/ group/NEDRA) -- Remember, it is not that the glass is half empty, in reality, the glass is merely twice the size that it needs to be! -TNT'82 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20161005/594baeca/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- Remember, it is not that the glass is half empty, in reality, the glass is merely twice the size that it needs to be! -TNT'82 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20161005/5dc9924d/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] To fully charge or not to fully charge that isthequestion
>>> After some pondering, I came to the conclusion that Nissan did things in >>> >>> that way to hide information from their customers. What other >>> explanation could there be? >>> >>> Even more astonishing is how Leaf owners accept the situation and speak >>> of almost meaningless "bars". I'm not surprised to learn that Nissan >>> dynamically recalibrates "bars" to manage their warranty threshold. >>> >>> ___ >>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag >>> racing at NEDRA >>> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >>> >>> ___ >>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag >>> racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >>> >>> ___ >>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag >>> racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >>> >>> ___ >>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/ >>> group/NEDRA) >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Remember, it is not that the glass is half empty, in reality, the glass is >> merely twice the size that it needs to be! -TNT'82 >> -- next part -- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/ >> 20161005/594baeca/attachment.htm> >> ___ >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group >> /NEDRA) >> >> >> > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group > /NEDRA) > > -- Remember, it is not that the glass is half empty, in reality, the glass is merely twice the size that it needs to be! -TNT'82 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20161005/7e7aa9d7/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] To fully charge or not to fully charge that isthequestion
lost on the re-calibrated gauge. The first bar does not disappear until 15% is lost and each subsequent bar should stand for 6.25% so in theory you need a battery degraded to just over 66% of nominal capacity to qualify if the gauge will indeed drop to 4 bars right at that point. But reports I have seen of Ah capacity degradation suggest that the loss of the 4th bar happens later. I found it significant that Leafs can lose more than 40% capacity in about 50k mi while some Tesla drops only 6% in 200k mi. Of course this is only one sample with a specific usage pattern, but I highly doubt an expansion of the samples will give different results, we'll see. Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info http://www.proxim.com This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is prohibited. -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Willie2 via EV Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2016 11:18 AM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] To fully charge or not to fully charge that is the question On 10/04/2016 12:29 PM, Cor van de Water via EV wrote: > on the battery as the Leaf *does* degrade its battery by 40% to approx > 60% capacity in approx 50k mi in warmer climates (that is the point > where Nissan gives a warranty battery replacement, even though they > promised 70% but re-calibated the battery to lose the 4th bar around 60% > capacity and triggering the warranty if it occurs within the warranty > limits for time and mileage.) When I first got my Leaf, I was astonished at how crappy the instrumentation is/was. Coming from the conversion world, I expected to see, or find out, how much energy went into the battery and how much came out. Instead, I had these twelve "bars". Unacceptable granularity. Later, I found the "bars" were not even of equal value. After some pondering, I came to the conclusion that Nissan did things in that way to hide information from their customers. What other explanation could there be? Even more astonishing is how Leaf owners accept the situation and speak of almost meaningless "bars". I'm not surprised to learn that Nissan dynamically recalibrates "bars" to manage their warranty threshold. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/ group/NEDRA) -- Remember, it is not that the glass is half empty, in reality, the glass is merely twice the size that it needs to be! -TNT'82 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20161005/594baeca/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] To fully charge or not to fully charge that isthequestion
pansion of the samples will give different results, > we'll see. > > Cor van de Water > Chief Scientist > Proxim Wireless > > office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water > XoIP +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info > > http://www.proxim.com > > This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and > proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received > this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any > unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of > this message is prohibited. > > > -Original Message- > From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Willie2 via EV > Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2016 11:18 AM > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List > Subject: Re: [EVDL] To fully charge or not to fully charge that is the > question > > On 10/04/2016 12:29 PM, Cor van de Water via EV wrote: > > on the battery as the Leaf *does* degrade its battery by 40% to approx > > > 60% capacity in approx 50k mi in warmer climates (that is the point > > where Nissan gives a warranty battery replacement, even though they > > promised 70% but re-calibated the battery to lose the 4th bar around > 60% > > capacity and triggering the warranty if it occurs within the warranty > > limits for time and mileage.) > When I first got my Leaf, I was astonished at how crappy the > instrumentation is/was. Coming from the conversion world, I expected to > > see, or find out, how much energy went into the battery and how much > came out. Instead, I had these twelve "bars". Unacceptable granularity. > Later, I found the "bars" were not even of equal value. > After some pondering, I came to the conclusion that Nissan did things in > > that way to hide information from their customers. What other > explanation could there be? > > Even more astonishing is how Leaf owners accept the situation and speak > of almost meaningless "bars". I'm not surprised to learn that Nissan > dynamically recalibrates "bars" to manage their warranty threshold. > > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag > racing at NEDRA > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag > racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag > racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/ > group/NEDRA) > > -- Remember, it is not that the glass is half empty, in reality, the glass is merely twice the size that it needs to be! -TNT'82 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20161005/594baeca/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20161005
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-2011-Leaf-ca-EV-proves-gt-Great-usefulness-Less-maintenance-td4683974.html EVLN: 2011 Leaf.ca EV proves> Great usefulness, Less maintenance Canada's first Nissan Leaf electric car drive remains committed after five years The Nissan Leaf has proven that electric cars can handle the rigors of daily driving just as well as internal-combustion models. At the same time, Leaf EVs have ... http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Electric-VW-Concept-noise-for-2020-Paris-fr-show-td4683975.html EVLN: Electric VW Concept (noise) for 2020 @Paris.fr show VW is calling this Paris Motor Show debut "as revolutionary as the Beetle was seven decades ago." + http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/BMW-charge-net-nz-installing-100-L3-DC-EVSE-across-NZ-v-td4683976.html BMW,charge.net.nz installing 100 L3 DC EVSE across NZ (v) Currently there's only 30 ... Electric car charging stations ... "The people need have no fear of range anxiety ... BMW said the partnership with national charging network Charge Net NZ would enable electric vehicle (EV) drivers to travel right across New Zealand through ... http://evdl.org/evln/ For all EVLN EV-newswire posts {brucedp.0catch.com} -- View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-EV-newswire-posts-for-20161005-tp4683977.html Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)