[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
Thee could wonder that were there a theocratic municipality election held in the larger meditating community if these TM Rajas, their TM king and prime minister could survive a confidence vote. While they're not doing so well at gathering folks back to meditate on the one hand it's gotten to be a pretty small movement inside on the other. In Theocratic Municipality; Well, this has happened before in history. Example the spiritual community City of Zion, Illinois as was founded by a charismatic spiritual teacher late in the 19th Century on Lake Michigan north of Chicago. The spiritual founder was voted out when he got too flamboyant, full of his Self, and cranky. The community substituted by this vote someone else who was a great teacher of their tradition but who was not himself charismatic; then a generation later the community members voted this second guy out as he got too tyrannical and big of himself with administrating their doctrine. The founder was spiritualized and the succeeding guy came along as a traditionalist doctrinaire of the group. Each got turned out by vote of their group, both their times. Was the will of the practitioners. A hundred years later the old group exists as a much smaller remnant church of what it was 'preserving' the teachings of the founder. Effectively the personalities and behaviours of these early leaders spawned many splintered independent groups of their teaching who also still live in the area. That's America. Practically, they are still a long way from reconciling with their old meditators and succeeding here in Fairfield. For instance, most people in town here likely never been to a Movement yagya or anything puja with the pundits even up in Vedic City. Of course, you'd have to have had a current dome badge to have done that or to even git invited. That of course has left the most meditators in town out. These Raja guys have *stunning* HR skill sets. Would seem they are out of touch. a worry could be that they might need to figure things out better with the meditating community here before they launch themselves (and us) logistically off again. It's getting to be a pretty small circle inside there to be 'letting' money on this scale from whoever is left standing. As that David movie brings up again, it is still fairly unclear where the money went before while the scope of the scale of this particular project is what, potentially bankrupting to all the other TM projects and programs. Om, certainly does seem this is the pet project now of the few Rajas. Seems also it's kind of being foist on folks. The TM Rajas seem mighty bent on staking the movement on this bet now. Marek, I'm just a guy on the street but I can tell you this is sea-changing that also looks like it comes with an under-tow. Of course, this being FairfieldLife and more essentially about Fairfield and TM here, these memos should be highly noteworthy right now to anybody living here in Fairfield. Yes, oh I give money to them too. I'd like to see them succeed in a good way for all kinds of good reason. I've had a lot of good experience with it. With Kind Regard, -Buck in FF --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, marekreavis reavismarek@ wrote: Buck, do you support this National Yagya Program yourself? Do you contribute money to it? Or are you relaying this information more tongue-in-cheek than serious? *** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: We especially recommend giving on a recurring monthly basis to perpetuate these great blessings for the world. Today, the United States TM organization (Maharishi Foundation USA), in conjunction with the Brahmananda Saraswati Foundation USA, created by Maharishi in 2008 for this very purpose, and in collaboration with our sister organizations in India, is directly overseeing the highly professional, maximally cost-efficient management of this new National Yagya Program to ensure its maximum effectiveness in every respect. We urge you to give as generously as possible. Om, the We, Who is we Kimosabe? The Meditating community? I'm Not necessarily seeing or hearing much in the community about this nor a lot of support for this project of sending money to India in asking around the community here. Maharishi personally engineered this most powerful
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
Practically, they are still a long way from reconciling with their old meditators and succeeding here in Fairfield. For instance, most people in town here likely never been to a Movement yagya or anything puja with the pundits even up in Vedic City. Of course, you'd have to have had a current dome badge to have done that or to even git invited. That of course has left the most meditators in town out. These Raja guys have *stunning* HR skill sets. Would seem they are out of touch. a worry could be that they might need to figure things out better with the meditating community here before they launch themselves (and us) logistically off again. It's getting to be a pretty small circle inside there to be 'letting' money on this scale from whoever is left standing. As that David movie brings up again, it is still fairly unclear where the money went before while the scope of the scale of this particular project is what, potentially bankrupting to all the other TM projects and programs. Om, certainly does seem this is the pet project now of the few Rajas. Seems also it's kind of being foist on folks. The TM Rajas seem mighty bent on staking the movement on this bet now. Marek, I'm just a guy on the street but I can tell you this is sea-changing that also looks like it comes with an under-tow. Of course, this being FairfieldLife and more essentially about Fairfield and TM here, these memos should be highly noteworthy right now to anybody living here in Fairfield. Yes, oh I give money to them too. I'd like to see them succeed in a good way for all kinds of good reason. I've had a lot of good experience with it. With Kind Regard, -Buck in FF --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, marekreavis reavismarek@ wrote: Buck, do you support this National Yagya Program yourself? Do you contribute money to it? Or are you relaying this information more tongue-in-cheek than serious? *** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: We especially recommend giving on a recurring monthly basis to perpetuate these great blessings for the world. Today, the United States TM organization (Maharishi Foundation USA), in conjunction with the Brahmananda Saraswati Foundation USA, created by Maharishi in 2008 for this very purpose, and in collaboration with our sister organizations in India, is directly overseeing the highly professional, maximally cost-efficient management of this new National Yagya Program to ensure its maximum effectiveness in every respect. We urge you to give as generously as possible. Om, the We, Who is we Kimosabe? The Meditating community? I'm Not necessarily seeing or hearing much in the community about this nor a lot of support for this project of sending money to India in asking around the community here. Maharishi personally engineered this most powerful application of Yagya to produce the largest possible impact on an entire nation. Maharishi trained tens of thousands of Vedic Pandits in order to achieve these massive results, and he built a beautiful campus at the Brahmasthan of India to accommodate these Vedic Pandits in perfect Vastu (Vedic architecture). This campus is continuing to expand rapidly today under the dynamic leadership of Dr. Girish Varma, Raja Harris Kaplan, and other great leaders of our Indian movement. These National Yagyas continue over many days or even weeks, depending on the size of the desired effect and the magnitude of the problem being averted or defused, Maharishi's National Yagya Program is a powerful application of the technology of Yagya on a national scale to prevent problems and improve the fortune of an entire nation. National Yagyas involve especially large groups of Maharishi Vedic Pandits located at the Brahmasthan (the geographic center and resonant power spot) of India. Maharishi restored the crucial understanding and proper practice that the Vedic mantras should be projected from the Para (Transcendental) level of speech, where the link between sound and formbetween desire and fulfillment of desireis enormously powerful. While Yogic
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
Thee could wonder that were there a theocratic municipality election held in the larger meditating community if these TM Rajas, their TM king and prime minister could survive a confidence vote. While they're not doing so well at gathering folks back to meditate on the one hand it's gotten to be a pretty small movement inside on the other. Practically, they are still a long way from reconciling with their old meditators and succeeding here in Fairfield. For instance, most people in town here likely never been to a Movement yagya or anything puja with the pundits even up in Vedic City. Of course, you'd have to have had a current dome badge to have done that or to even git invited. That of course has left the most meditators in town out. These Raja guys have *stunning* HR skill sets. Would seem they are out of touch. a worry could be that they might need to figure things out better with the meditating community here before they launch themselves (and us) logistically off again. It's getting to be a pretty small circle inside there to be 'letting' money on this scale from whoever is left standing. As that David movie brings up again, it is still fairly unclear where the money went before while the scope of the scale of this particular project is what, potentially bankrupting to all the other TM projects and programs. Om, certainly does seem this is the pet project now of the few Rajas. Seems also it's kind of being foist on folks. The TM Rajas seem mighty bent on staking the movement on this bet now. Marek, I'm just a guy on the street but I can tell you this is sea-changing that also looks like it comes with an under-tow. Of course, this being FairfieldLife and more essentially about Fairfield and TM here, these memos should be highly noteworthy right now to anybody living here in Fairfield. Yes, oh I give money to them too. I'd like to see them succeed in a good way for all kinds of good reason. I've had a lot of good experience with it. With Kind Regard, -Buck in FF --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, marekreavis reavismarek@ wrote: Buck, do you support this National Yagya Program yourself? Do you contribute money to it? Or are you relaying this information more tongue-in-cheek than serious? *** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: We especially recommend giving on a recurring monthly basis to perpetuate these great blessings for the world. Today, the United States TM organization (Maharishi Foundation USA), in conjunction with the Brahmananda Saraswati Foundation USA, created by Maharishi in 2008 for this very purpose, and in collaboration with our sister organizations in India, is directly overseeing the highly professional, maximally cost-efficient management of this new National Yagya Program to ensure its maximum effectiveness in every respect. We urge you to give as generously as possible. Om, the We, Who is we Kimosabe? The Meditating community? I'm Not necessarily seeing or hearing much in the community about this nor a lot of support for this project of sending money to India in asking around the community here. Maharishi personally engineered this most powerful application of Yagya to produce the largest possible impact on an entire nation. Maharishi trained tens of thousands of Vedic Pandits in order to achieve these massive results, and he built a beautiful campus at the Brahmasthan of India to accommodate these Vedic Pandits in perfect Vastu (Vedic architecture). This campus is continuing to expand rapidly today under the dynamic leadership of Dr. Girish Varma, Raja Harris Kaplan, and other great leaders of our Indian movement. These National Yagyas continue over many days or even weeks, depending on the size of the desired effect and the magnitude of the problem being averted or defused, Maharishi's National Yagya Program is a powerful application of the technology of Yagya on a national scale to prevent problems and improve the fortune of an entire nation. National Yagyas involve especially large groups of Maharishi Vedic Pandits located at the Brahmasthan (the geographic center and resonant power spot) of India.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
Maharishi restored the crucial understanding and proper practice that the Vedic mantras should be projected from the Para (Transcendental) level of speech, where the link between sound and formbetween desire and fulfillment of desireis enormously powerful. While Yogic Flying produces a powerful, generalized, non-directed surge of positivity for the general well-being of society, Yagyas create a very focused, concentrated influence of positivity designed to neutralize specific threats. Like the threats that are looming today. Om, Is this now the high-water mark for the dome numbers? The invincible programs? [LAUNCHING: THE NEW NATIONAL YAGYA PROGRAM] Maharishi has designed the most powerful system of Yagya the world has ever seen. The Maharishi National YagyaSM program is a massive application of Yagya on a national scale, specifically engineered to produce the largest possible impact on an entire nation. Focus for 2012: Maharishi Yagyas® for the Nation Join us in this great endeavor, please.Let us launch this powerful new program, may abundant good fortune smile on America, and may Maharishi's great legacy of peace and enlightenment permanently bless the human race. Jai Guru Dev
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
Maharishi's National Yagya Program is a powerful application of the technology of Yagya on a national scale to prevent problems and improve the fortune of an entire nation. National Yagyas involve especially large groups of Maharishi Vedic Pandits located at the Brahmasthan (the geographic center and resonant power spot) of India. Maharishi restored the crucial understanding and proper practice that the Vedic mantras should be projected from the Para (Transcendental) level of speech, where the link between sound and formbetween desire and fulfillment of desireis enormously powerful. While Yogic Flying produces a powerful, generalized, non-directed surge of positivity for the general well-being of society, Yagyas create a very focused, concentrated influence of positivity designed to neutralize specific threats. Like the threats that are looming today. Om, Is this now the high-water mark for the dome numbers? The invincible programs? [LAUNCHING: THE NEW NATIONAL YAGYA PROGRAM] Maharishi has designed the most powerful system of Yagya the world has ever seen. The Maharishi National YagyaSM program is a massive application of Yagya on a national scale, specifically engineered to produce the largest possible impact on an entire nation. Focus for 2012: Maharishi Yagyas® for the Nation Join us in this great endeavor, please.Let us launch this powerful new program, may abundant good fortune smile on America, and may Maharishi's great legacy of peace and enlightenment permanently bless the human race. Jai Guru Dev
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
These National Yagyas continue over many days or even weeks, depending on the size of the desired effect and the magnitude of the problem being averted or defused, Maharishi's National Yagya Program is a powerful application of the technology of Yagya on a national scale to prevent problems and improve the fortune of an entire nation. National Yagyas involve especially large groups of Maharishi Vedic Pandits located at the Brahmasthan (the geographic center and resonant power spot) of India. Maharishi restored the crucial understanding and proper practice that the Vedic mantras should be projected from the Para (Transcendental) level of speech, where the link between sound and formbetween desire and fulfillment of desireis enormously powerful. While Yogic Flying produces a powerful, generalized, non-directed surge of positivity for the general well-being of society, Yagyas create a very focused, concentrated influence of positivity designed to neutralize specific threats. Like the threats that are looming today. Om, Is this now the high-water mark for the dome numbers? The invincible programs? [LAUNCHING: THE NEW NATIONAL YAGYA PROGRAM] Maharishi has designed the most powerful system of Yagya the world has ever seen. The Maharishi National YagyaSM program is a massive application of Yagya on a national scale, specifically engineered to produce the largest possible impact on an entire nation. Focus for 2012: Maharishi Yagyas® for the Nation Join us in this great endeavor, please.Let us launch this powerful new program, may abundant good fortune smile on America, and may Maharishi's great legacy of peace and enlightenment permanently bless the human race. Jai Guru Dev
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
Maharishi personally engineered this most powerful application of Yagya to produce the largest possible impact on an entire nation. Maharishi trained tens of thousands of Vedic Pandits in order to achieve these massive results, and he built a beautiful campus at the Brahmasthan of India to accommodate these Vedic Pandits in perfect Vastu (Vedic architecture). This campus is continuing to expand rapidly today under the dynamic leadership of Dr. Girish Varma, Raja Harris Kaplan, and other great leaders of our Indian movement. These National Yagyas continue over many days or even weeks, depending on the size of the desired effect and the magnitude of the problem being averted or defused, Maharishi's National Yagya Program is a powerful application of the technology of Yagya on a national scale to prevent problems and improve the fortune of an entire nation. National Yagyas involve especially large groups of Maharishi Vedic Pandits located at the Brahmasthan (the geographic center and resonant power spot) of India. Maharishi restored the crucial understanding and proper practice that the Vedic mantras should be projected from the Para (Transcendental) level of speech, where the link between sound and formbetween desire and fulfillment of desireis enormously powerful. While Yogic Flying produces a powerful, generalized, non-directed surge of positivity for the general well-being of society, Yagyas create a very focused, concentrated influence of positivity designed to neutralize specific threats. Like the threats that are looming today. Om, Is this now the high-water mark for the dome numbers? The invincible programs? [LAUNCHING: THE NEW NATIONAL YAGYA PROGRAM] Maharishi has designed the most powerful system of Yagya the world has ever seen. The Maharishi National YagyaSM program is a massive application of Yagya on a national scale, specifically engineered to produce the largest possible impact on an entire nation. Focus for 2012: Maharishi Yagyas® for the Nation Join us in this great endeavor, please.Let us launch this powerful new program, may abundant good fortune smile on America, and may Maharishi's great legacy of peace and enlightenment permanently bless the human race. Jai Guru Dev
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
Today, the United States TM organization (Maharishi Foundation USA), in conjunction with the Brahmananda Saraswati Foundation USA, created by Maharishi in 2008 for this very purpose, and in collaboration with our sister organizations in India, is directly overseeing the highly professional, maximally cost-efficient management of this new National Yagya Program to ensure its maximum effectiveness in every respect. Maharishi personally engineered this most powerful application of Yagya to produce the largest possible impact on an entire nation. Maharishi trained tens of thousands of Vedic Pandits in order to achieve these massive results, and he built a beautiful campus at the Brahmasthan of India to accommodate these Vedic Pandits in perfect Vastu (Vedic architecture). This campus is continuing to expand rapidly today under the dynamic leadership of Dr. Girish Varma, Raja Harris Kaplan, and other great leaders of our Indian movement. These National Yagyas continue over many days or even weeks, depending on the size of the desired effect and the magnitude of the problem being averted or defused, Maharishi's National Yagya Program is a powerful application of the technology of Yagya on a national scale to prevent problems and improve the fortune of an entire nation. National Yagyas involve especially large groups of Maharishi Vedic Pandits located at the Brahmasthan (the geographic center and resonant power spot) of India. Maharishi restored the crucial understanding and proper practice that the Vedic mantras should be projected from the Para (Transcendental) level of speech, where the link between sound and formbetween desire and fulfillment of desireis enormously powerful. While Yogic Flying produces a powerful, generalized, non-directed surge of positivity for the general well-being of society, Yagyas create a very focused, concentrated influence of positivity designed to neutralize specific threats. Like the threats that are looming today. Om, Is this now the high-water mark for the dome numbers? The invincible programs? [LAUNCHING: THE NEW NATIONAL YAGYA PROGRAM] Maharishi has designed the most powerful system of Yagya the world has ever seen. The Maharishi National YagyaSM program is a massive application of Yagya on a national scale, specifically engineered to produce the largest possible impact on an entire nation. Focus for 2012: Maharishi Yagyas® for the Nation Join us in this great endeavor, please.Let us launch this powerful new program, may abundant good fortune smile on America, and may Maharishi's great legacy of peace and enlightenment permanently bless the human race. Jai Guru Dev
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
Today, the United States TM organization (Maharishi Foundation USA), in conjunction with the Brahmananda Saraswati Foundation USA, created by Maharishi in 2008 for this very purpose, and in collaboration with our sister organizations in India, is directly overseeing the highly professional, maximally cost-efficient management of this new National Yagya Program to ensure its maximum effectiveness in every respect. We urge you to give as generously as possible. Maharishi personally engineered this most powerful application of Yagya to produce the largest possible impact on an entire nation. Maharishi trained tens of thousands of Vedic Pandits in order to achieve these massive results, and he built a beautiful campus at the Brahmasthan of India to accommodate these Vedic Pandits in perfect Vastu (Vedic architecture). This campus is continuing to expand rapidly today under the dynamic leadership of Dr. Girish Varma, Raja Harris Kaplan, and other great leaders of our Indian movement. These National Yagyas continue over many days or even weeks, depending on the size of the desired effect and the magnitude of the problem being averted or defused, Maharishi's National Yagya Program is a powerful application of the technology of Yagya on a national scale to prevent problems and improve the fortune of an entire nation. National Yagyas involve especially large groups of Maharishi Vedic Pandits located at the Brahmasthan (the geographic center and resonant power spot) of India. Maharishi restored the crucial understanding and proper practice that the Vedic mantras should be projected from the Para (Transcendental) level of speech, where the link between sound and formbetween desire and fulfillment of desireis enormously powerful. While Yogic Flying produces a powerful, generalized, non-directed surge of positivity for the general well-being of society, Yagyas create a very focused, concentrated influence of positivity designed to neutralize specific threats. Like the threats that are looming today. Om, Is this now the high-water mark for the dome numbers? The invincible programs? [LAUNCHING: THE NEW NATIONAL YAGYA PROGRAM] Maharishi has designed the most powerful system of Yagya the world has ever seen. The Maharishi National YagyaSM program is a massive application of Yagya on a national scale, specifically engineered to produce the largest possible impact on an entire nation. Focus for 2012: Maharishi Yagyas® for the Nation Join us in this great endeavor, please.Let us launch this powerful new program, may abundant good fortune smile on America, and may Maharishi's great legacy of peace and enlightenment permanently bless the human race. Jai Guru Dev
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
We especially recommend giving on a recurring monthly basis to perpetuate these great blessings for the world. Today, the United States TM organization (Maharishi Foundation USA), in conjunction with the Brahmananda Saraswati Foundation USA, created by Maharishi in 2008 for this very purpose, and in collaboration with our sister organizations in India, is directly overseeing the highly professional, maximally cost-efficient management of this new National Yagya Program to ensure its maximum effectiveness in every respect. We urge you to give as generously as possible. Maharishi personally engineered this most powerful application of Yagya to produce the largest possible impact on an entire nation. Maharishi trained tens of thousands of Vedic Pandits in order to achieve these massive results, and he built a beautiful campus at the Brahmasthan of India to accommodate these Vedic Pandits in perfect Vastu (Vedic architecture). This campus is continuing to expand rapidly today under the dynamic leadership of Dr. Girish Varma, Raja Harris Kaplan, and other great leaders of our Indian movement. These National Yagyas continue over many days or even weeks, depending on the size of the desired effect and the magnitude of the problem being averted or defused, Maharishi's National Yagya Program is a powerful application of the technology of Yagya on a national scale to prevent problems and improve the fortune of an entire nation. National Yagyas involve especially large groups of Maharishi Vedic Pandits located at the Brahmasthan (the geographic center and resonant power spot) of India. Maharishi restored the crucial understanding and proper practice that the Vedic mantras should be projected from the Para (Transcendental) level of speech, where the link between sound and formbetween desire and fulfillment of desireis enormously powerful. While Yogic Flying produces a powerful, generalized, non-directed surge of positivity for the general well-being of society, Yagyas create a very focused, concentrated influence of positivity designed to neutralize specific threats. Like the threats that are looming today. Om, Is this now the high-water mark for the dome numbers? The invincible programs? [LAUNCHING: THE NEW NATIONAL YAGYA PROGRAM] Maharishi has designed the most powerful system of Yagya the world has ever seen. The Maharishi National YagyaSM program is a massive application of Yagya on a national scale, specifically engineered to produce the largest possible impact on an entire nation. Focus for 2012: Maharishi Yagyas® for the Nation Join us in this great endeavor, please.Let us launch this powerful new program, may abundant good fortune smile on America, and may Maharishi's great legacy of peace and enlightenment permanently bless the human race. Jai Guru Dev
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
Your monthly donations will not only bring profound benefits to our country, they will also provide vital support for the Maharishi Vedic Pandits in the U.S. and India. We especially recommend giving on a recurring monthly basis to perpetuate these great blessings for the world. Today, the United States TM organization (Maharishi Foundation USA), in conjunction with the Brahmananda Saraswati Foundation USA, created by Maharishi in 2008 for this very purpose, and in collaboration with our sister organizations in India, is directly overseeing the highly professional, maximally cost-efficient management of this new National Yagya Program to ensure its maximum effectiveness in every respect. We urge you to give as generously as possible. Maharishi personally engineered this most powerful application of Yagya to produce the largest possible impact on an entire nation. Maharishi trained tens of thousands of Vedic Pandits in order to achieve these massive results, and he built a beautiful campus at the Brahmasthan of India to accommodate these Vedic Pandits in perfect Vastu (Vedic architecture). This campus is continuing to expand rapidly today under the dynamic leadership of Dr. Girish Varma, Raja Harris Kaplan, and other great leaders of our Indian movement. These National Yagyas continue over many days or even weeks, depending on the size of the desired effect and the magnitude of the problem being averted or defused, Maharishi's National Yagya Program is a powerful application of the technology of Yagya on a national scale to prevent problems and improve the fortune of an entire nation. National Yagyas involve especially large groups of Maharishi Vedic Pandits located at the Brahmasthan (the geographic center and resonant power spot) of India. Maharishi restored the crucial understanding and proper practice that the Vedic mantras should be projected from the Para (Transcendental) level of speech, where the link between sound and formbetween desire and fulfillment of desireis enormously powerful. While Yogic Flying produces a powerful, generalized, non-directed surge of positivity for the general well-being of society, Yagyas create a very focused, concentrated influence of positivity designed to neutralize specific threats. Like the threats that are looming today. Om, Is this now the high-water mark for the dome numbers? The invincible programs? [LAUNCHING: THE NEW NATIONAL YAGYA PROGRAM] Maharishi has designed the most powerful system of Yagya the world has ever seen. The Maharishi National YagyaSM program is a massive application of Yagya on a national scale, specifically engineered to produce the largest possible impact on an entire nation. Focus for 2012: Maharishi Yagyas® for the Nation Join us in this great endeavor, please.Let us launch this powerful new program, may abundant good fortune smile on America, and may Maharishi's great legacy of peace and enlightenment permanently bless the human race. Jai Guru Dev
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
Buck, do you support this National Yagya Program yourself? Do you contribute money to it? Or are you relaying this information more tongue-in-cheek than serious? *** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: We especially recommend giving on a recurring monthly basis to perpetuate these great blessings for the world. Today, the United States TM organization (Maharishi Foundation USA), in conjunction with the Brahmananda Saraswati Foundation USA, created by Maharishi in 2008 for this very purpose, and in collaboration with our sister organizations in India, is directly overseeing the highly professional, maximally cost-efficient management of this new National Yagya Program to ensure its maximum effectiveness in every respect. We urge you to give as generously as possible. Maharishi personally engineered this most powerful application of Yagya to produce the largest possible impact on an entire nation. Maharishi trained tens of thousands of Vedic Pandits in order to achieve these massive results, and he built a beautiful campus at the Brahmasthan of India to accommodate these Vedic Pandits in perfect Vastu (Vedic architecture). This campus is continuing to expand rapidly today under the dynamic leadership of Dr. Girish Varma, Raja Harris Kaplan, and other great leaders of our Indian movement. These National Yagyas continue over many days or even weeks, depending on the size of the desired effect and the magnitude of the problem being averted or defused, Maharishi's National Yagya Program is a powerful application of the technology of Yagya on a national scale to prevent problems and improve the fortune of an entire nation. National Yagyas involve especially large groups of Maharishi Vedic Pandits located at the Brahmasthan (the geographic center and resonant power spot) of India. Maharishi restored the crucial understanding and proper practice that the Vedic mantras should be projected from the Para (Transcendental) level of speech, where the link between sound and formbetween desire and fulfillment of desireis enormously powerful. While Yogic Flying produces a powerful, generalized, non-directed surge of positivity for the general well-being of society, Yagyas create a very focused, concentrated influence of positivity designed to neutralize specific threats. Like the threats that are looming today. Om, Is this now the high-water mark for the dome numbers? The invincible programs? [LAUNCHING: THE NEW NATIONAL YAGYA PROGRAM] Maharishi has designed the most powerful system of Yagya the world has ever seen. The Maharishi National YagyaSM program is a massive application of Yagya on a national scale, specifically engineered to produce the largest possible impact on an entire nation. Focus for 2012: Maharishi Yagyas® for the Nation Join us in this great endeavor, please.Let us launch this powerful new program, may abundant good fortune smile on America, and may Maharishi's great legacy of peace and enlightenment permanently bless the human race. Jai Guru Dev
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
Marek, I'm just a guy on the street but I can tell you this is sea-changing that also looks like it comes with an under-tow. Of course, this being FairfieldLife and more essentially about Fairfield and TM here, these memos should be highly noteworthy right now to anybody living here in Fairfield. Yes, oh I give money to them too. I'd like to see them succeed in a good way for all kinds of good reason. I've had a lot of good experience with it. With Kind Regard, -Buck in FF --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, marekreavis reavismarek@... wrote: Buck, do you support this National Yagya Program yourself? Do you contribute money to it? Or are you relaying this information more tongue-in-cheek than serious? *** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: We especially recommend giving on a recurring monthly basis to perpetuate these great blessings for the world. Today, the United States TM organization (Maharishi Foundation USA), in conjunction with the Brahmananda Saraswati Foundation USA, created by Maharishi in 2008 for this very purpose, and in collaboration with our sister organizations in India, is directly overseeing the highly professional, maximally cost-efficient management of this new National Yagya Program to ensure its maximum effectiveness in every respect. We urge you to give as generously as possible. Maharishi personally engineered this most powerful application of Yagya to produce the largest possible impact on an entire nation. Maharishi trained tens of thousands of Vedic Pandits in order to achieve these massive results, and he built a beautiful campus at the Brahmasthan of India to accommodate these Vedic Pandits in perfect Vastu (Vedic architecture). This campus is continuing to expand rapidly today under the dynamic leadership of Dr. Girish Varma, Raja Harris Kaplan, and other great leaders of our Indian movement. These National Yagyas continue over many days or even weeks, depending on the size of the desired effect and the magnitude of the problem being averted or defused, Maharishi's National Yagya Program is a powerful application of the technology of Yagya on a national scale to prevent problems and improve the fortune of an entire nation. National Yagyas involve especially large groups of Maharishi Vedic Pandits located at the Brahmasthan (the geographic center and resonant power spot) of India. Maharishi restored the crucial understanding and proper practice that the Vedic mantras should be projected from the Para (Transcendental) level of speech, where the link between sound and formbetween desire and fulfillment of desireis enormously powerful. While Yogic Flying produces a powerful, generalized, non-directed surge of positivity for the general well-being of society, Yagyas create a very focused, concentrated influence of positivity designed to neutralize specific threats. Like the threats that are looming today. Om, Is this now the high-water mark for the dome numbers? The invincible programs? [LAUNCHING: THE NEW NATIONAL YAGYA PROGRAM] Maharishi has designed the most powerful system of Yagya the world has ever seen. The Maharishi National YagyaSM program is a massive application of Yagya on a national scale, specifically engineered to produce the largest possible impact on an entire nation. Focus for 2012: Maharishi Yagyas® for the Nation Join us in this great endeavor, please.Let us launch this powerful new program, may abundant good fortune smile on America, and may Maharishi's great legacy of peace and enlightenment permanently bless the human race. Jai Guru Dev
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
Marek, I'm just a guy on the street but I can tell you this is sea-changing that also looks like it comes with an under-tow. Of course, this being FairfieldLife and more essentially about Fairfield and TM here, these memos should be highly noteworthy right now to anybody living here in Fairfield. Yes, oh I give money to them too. I'd like to see them succeed in a good way for all kinds of good reason. I've had a lot of good experience with it. With Kind Regard, -Buck in FF --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, marekreavis reavismarek@ wrote: Buck, do you support this National Yagya Program yourself? Do you contribute money to it? Or are you relaying this information more tongue-in-cheek than serious? *** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: We especially recommend giving on a recurring monthly basis to perpetuate these great blessings for the world. Today, the United States TM organization (Maharishi Foundation USA), in conjunction with the Brahmananda Saraswati Foundation USA, created by Maharishi in 2008 for this very purpose, and in collaboration with our sister organizations in India, is directly overseeing the highly professional, maximally cost-efficient management of this new National Yagya Program to ensure its maximum effectiveness in every respect. We urge you to give as generously as possible. Om, the We, Who is we Kimosabe? The Meditating community? I'm Not necessarily seeing or hearing much in the community about this nor a lot of support for this project of sending money to India in asking around the community here. Maharishi personally engineered this most powerful application of Yagya to produce the largest possible impact on an entire nation. Maharishi trained tens of thousands of Vedic Pandits in order to achieve these massive results, and he built a beautiful campus at the Brahmasthan of India to accommodate these Vedic Pandits in perfect Vastu (Vedic architecture). This campus is continuing to expand rapidly today under the dynamic leadership of Dr. Girish Varma, Raja Harris Kaplan, and other great leaders of our Indian movement. These National Yagyas continue over many days or even weeks, depending on the size of the desired effect and the magnitude of the problem being averted or defused, Maharishi's National Yagya Program is a powerful application of the technology of Yagya on a national scale to prevent problems and improve the fortune of an entire nation. National Yagyas involve especially large groups of Maharishi Vedic Pandits located at the Brahmasthan (the geographic center and resonant power spot) of India. Maharishi restored the crucial understanding and proper practice that the Vedic mantras should be projected from the Para (Transcendental) level of speech, where the link between sound and formbetween desire and fulfillment of desireis enormously powerful. While Yogic Flying produces a powerful, generalized, non-directed surge of positivity for the general well-being of society, Yagyas create a very focused, concentrated influence of positivity designed to neutralize specific threats. Like the threats that are looming today. Om, Is this now the high-water mark for the dome numbers? The invincible programs? [LAUNCHING: THE NEW NATIONAL YAGYA PROGRAM] Maharishi has designed the most powerful system of Yagya the world has ever seen. The Maharishi National YagyaSM program is a massive application of Yagya on a national scale, specifically engineered to produce the largest possible impact on an entire nation. Focus for 2012: Maharishi Yagyas® for the Nation Join us in this great endeavor, please.Let us launch this powerful new program, may abundant good fortune smile on America, and may Maharishi's great legacy of peace and enlightenment permanently bless the human race. Jai Guru Dev
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
The TM Rajas seem mighty bent on staking the movement on this bet now. Marek, I'm just a guy on the street but I can tell you this is sea-changing that also looks like it comes with an under-tow. Of course, this being FairfieldLife and more essentially about Fairfield and TM here, these memos should be highly noteworthy right now to anybody living here in Fairfield. Yes, oh I give money to them too. I'd like to see them succeed in a good way for all kinds of good reason. I've had a lot of good experience with it. With Kind Regard, -Buck in FF --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, marekreavis reavismarek@ wrote: Buck, do you support this National Yagya Program yourself? Do you contribute money to it? Or are you relaying this information more tongue-in-cheek than serious? *** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: We especially recommend giving on a recurring monthly basis to perpetuate these great blessings for the world. Today, the United States TM organization (Maharishi Foundation USA), in conjunction with the Brahmananda Saraswati Foundation USA, created by Maharishi in 2008 for this very purpose, and in collaboration with our sister organizations in India, is directly overseeing the highly professional, maximally cost-efficient management of this new National Yagya Program to ensure its maximum effectiveness in every respect. We urge you to give as generously as possible. Om, the We, Who is we Kimosabe? The Meditating community? I'm Not necessarily seeing or hearing much in the community about this nor a lot of support for this project of sending money to India in asking around the community here. Maharishi personally engineered this most powerful application of Yagya to produce the largest possible impact on an entire nation. Maharishi trained tens of thousands of Vedic Pandits in order to achieve these massive results, and he built a beautiful campus at the Brahmasthan of India to accommodate these Vedic Pandits in perfect Vastu (Vedic architecture). This campus is continuing to expand rapidly today under the dynamic leadership of Dr. Girish Varma, Raja Harris Kaplan, and other great leaders of our Indian movement. These National Yagyas continue over many days or even weeks, depending on the size of the desired effect and the magnitude of the problem being averted or defused, Maharishi's National Yagya Program is a powerful application of the technology of Yagya on a national scale to prevent problems and improve the fortune of an entire nation. National Yagyas involve especially large groups of Maharishi Vedic Pandits located at the Brahmasthan (the geographic center and resonant power spot) of India. Maharishi restored the crucial understanding and proper practice that the Vedic mantras should be projected from the Para (Transcendental) level of speech, where the link between sound and formbetween desire and fulfillment of desireis enormously powerful. While Yogic Flying produces a powerful, generalized, non-directed surge of positivity for the general well-being of society, Yagyas create a very focused, concentrated influence of positivity designed to neutralize specific threats. Like the threats that are looming today. Om, Is this now the high-water mark for the dome numbers? The invincible programs? [LAUNCHING: THE NEW NATIONAL YAGYA PROGRAM] Maharishi has designed the most powerful system of Yagya the world has ever seen. The Maharishi National YagyaSM program is a massive application of Yagya on a national scale, specifically engineered to produce the largest possible impact on an entire nation. Focus for 2012: Maharishi Yagyas® for the Nation Join us in this great endeavor, please.Let us launch this powerful new program, may abundant good fortune smile on America, and may Maharishi's great legacy of peace and enlightenment permanently bless the human race. Jai Guru Dev
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
Om, certainly does seem this is the pet project now of the few Rajas. Seems also it's kind of being foist on folks. The TM Rajas seem mighty bent on staking the movement on this bet now. Marek, I'm just a guy on the street but I can tell you this is sea-changing that also looks like it comes with an under-tow. Of course, this being FairfieldLife and more essentially about Fairfield and TM here, these memos should be highly noteworthy right now to anybody living here in Fairfield. Yes, oh I give money to them too. I'd like to see them succeed in a good way for all kinds of good reason. I've had a lot of good experience with it. With Kind Regard, -Buck in FF --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, marekreavis reavismarek@ wrote: Buck, do you support this National Yagya Program yourself? Do you contribute money to it? Or are you relaying this information more tongue-in-cheek than serious? *** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: We especially recommend giving on a recurring monthly basis to perpetuate these great blessings for the world. Today, the United States TM organization (Maharishi Foundation USA), in conjunction with the Brahmananda Saraswati Foundation USA, created by Maharishi in 2008 for this very purpose, and in collaboration with our sister organizations in India, is directly overseeing the highly professional, maximally cost-efficient management of this new National Yagya Program to ensure its maximum effectiveness in every respect. We urge you to give as generously as possible. Om, the We, Who is we Kimosabe? The Meditating community? I'm Not necessarily seeing or hearing much in the community about this nor a lot of support for this project of sending money to India in asking around the community here. Maharishi personally engineered this most powerful application of Yagya to produce the largest possible impact on an entire nation. Maharishi trained tens of thousands of Vedic Pandits in order to achieve these massive results, and he built a beautiful campus at the Brahmasthan of India to accommodate these Vedic Pandits in perfect Vastu (Vedic architecture). This campus is continuing to expand rapidly today under the dynamic leadership of Dr. Girish Varma, Raja Harris Kaplan, and other great leaders of our Indian movement. These National Yagyas continue over many days or even weeks, depending on the size of the desired effect and the magnitude of the problem being averted or defused, Maharishi's National Yagya Program is a powerful application of the technology of Yagya on a national scale to prevent problems and improve the fortune of an entire nation. National Yagyas involve especially large groups of Maharishi Vedic Pandits located at the Brahmasthan (the geographic center and resonant power spot) of India. Maharishi restored the crucial understanding and proper practice that the Vedic mantras should be projected from the Para (Transcendental) level of speech, where the link between sound and formbetween desire and fulfillment of desireis enormously powerful. While Yogic Flying produces a powerful, generalized, non-directed surge of positivity for the general well-being of society, Yagyas create a very focused, concentrated influence of positivity designed to neutralize specific threats. Like the threats that are looming today. Om, Is this now the high-water mark for the dome numbers? The invincible programs? [LAUNCHING: THE NEW NATIONAL YAGYA PROGRAM] Maharishi has designed the most powerful system of Yagya the world has ever seen. The Maharishi National YagyaSM program is a massive application of Yagya on a national scale, specifically engineered to produce the largest possible impact on an entire nation. Focus for 2012: Maharishi Yagyas® for the Nation Join us in this great endeavor, please.Let us launch this powerful new program, may abundant good fortune smile on America, and may Maharishi's
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
the worry could also be that they might need to figure things out better with the meditating community here before they launch themselves (and us) logistically off again. It's getting to be a pretty small circle inside there to be 'letting' money on this scale from whoever is left standing. As that David movie brings up again, it is still fairly unclear where the money went before while the scope of the scale of this particular project is what, potentially bankrupting to all the other TM projects and programs. Om, certainly does seem this is the pet project now of the few Rajas. Seems also it's kind of being foist on folks. The TM Rajas seem mighty bent on staking the movement on this bet now. Marek, I'm just a guy on the street but I can tell you this is sea-changing that also looks like it comes with an under-tow. Of course, this being FairfieldLife and more essentially about Fairfield and TM here, these memos should be highly noteworthy right now to anybody living here in Fairfield. Yes, oh I give money to them too. I'd like to see them succeed in a good way for all kinds of good reason. I've had a lot of good experience with it. With Kind Regard, -Buck in FF --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, marekreavis reavismarek@ wrote: Buck, do you support this National Yagya Program yourself? Do you contribute money to it? Or are you relaying this information more tongue-in-cheek than serious? *** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: We especially recommend giving on a recurring monthly basis to perpetuate these great blessings for the world. Today, the United States TM organization (Maharishi Foundation USA), in conjunction with the Brahmananda Saraswati Foundation USA, created by Maharishi in 2008 for this very purpose, and in collaboration with our sister organizations in India, is directly overseeing the highly professional, maximally cost-efficient management of this new National Yagya Program to ensure its maximum effectiveness in every respect. We urge you to give as generously as possible. Om, the We, Who is we Kimosabe? The Meditating community? I'm Not necessarily seeing or hearing much in the community about this nor a lot of support for this project of sending money to India in asking around the community here. Maharishi personally engineered this most powerful application of Yagya to produce the largest possible impact on an entire nation. Maharishi trained tens of thousands of Vedic Pandits in order to achieve these massive results, and he built a beautiful campus at the Brahmasthan of India to accommodate these Vedic Pandits in perfect Vastu (Vedic architecture). This campus is continuing to expand rapidly today under the dynamic leadership of Dr. Girish Varma, Raja Harris Kaplan, and other great leaders of our Indian movement. These National Yagyas continue over many days or even weeks, depending on the size of the desired effect and the magnitude of the problem being averted or defused, Maharishi's National Yagya Program is a powerful application of the technology of Yagya on a national scale to prevent problems and improve the fortune of an entire nation. National Yagyas involve especially large groups of Maharishi Vedic Pandits located at the Brahmasthan (the geographic center and resonant power spot) of India. Maharishi restored the crucial understanding and proper practice that the Vedic mantras should be projected from the Para (Transcendental) level of speech, where the link between sound and formbetween desire and fulfillment of desireis enormously powerful. While Yogic Flying produces a powerful, generalized, non-directed surge of positivity for the general well-being of society, Yagyas create a very focused, concentrated influence of positivity designed to neutralize specific threats. Like the threats that are looming today. Om, Is this now the high-water mark for the dome numbers? The invincible programs? [LAUNCHING: THE NEW NATIONAL YAGYA PROGRAM]
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
Yep, well if the BODirectors of the TM-movement's SBSTrust or the BOTrustees of the university ever wanted to do something really productive with the meditating community, they proly should ought to 'retire' the University President and give that position and its job to someone who has a different and better sense of how to deal with people (meditators) effectively. Give the authority and power of that job to someone else now. Have the current President step back and become 'emeritus'. That could become his new name, and git him out of the way. It is an interesting problem, the legacy the President's Office has now. Out on the streets I interview folks in Fairfield all the time asking about their relationship to the movement and about their going to the domes for mediation. When and where did they become meditators? How long have they been in Fairfield? A common and most always a strongly worded reaction by people quite often comes when asked about going to the domes. The reaction is often that folks don't like going to meditate in the dome group there anymore because the 'dome politics' as a feeling is that palpable and bad in there. That people don't have a sense of 'place' there anymore because these President's Office politics have been so bad for so long. Seems saddening to see that the dome numbers with the meditator community are not working out for the tru-believers and that the Invincibility courses should be supplanted and let go this way. The potential was so great, except the Rajas could not bring themselves to figure out a reconciliation with the old meditating community. While Yogic Flying produces a powerful, generalized, non-directed surge of positivity for the general well-being of society, Yagyas create a very focused, concentrated influence of positivity designed to neutralize specific threats. Like the threats that are looming today. Om, Is this now the high-water mark for the dome numbers? The invincible programs? [LAUNCHING: THE NEW NATIONAL YAGYA PROGRAM] Maharishi has designed the most powerful system of Yagya the world has ever seen. The Maharishi National YagyaSM program is a massive application of Yagya on a national scale, specifically engineered to produce the largest possible impact on an entire nation. Focus for 2012: Maharishi Yagyas® for the Nation Join us in this great endeavor, please.Let us launch this powerful new program, may abundant good fortune smile on America, and may Maharishi's great legacy of peace and enlightenment permanently bless the human race. Jai Guru Dev
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@... wrote: Here's another idea - open up a separate place in Ffld to do Program (Probation Hall) for all those banned people who would really like to meditate in the Domes. Let them meditate and contribute to world peace etc, but without contaminating the people in the regular Domes. And if you attend Probation Hall programs regularly, swear to your purity, OR make a large donation, you can absolve your sins and work your way into the big Domes. Problem solved. Susan, interesting idea. Or there could be a facility that just lets in anyone doing what they like, and the sidha community could establish their own specific times, but of course that would not fly with the administration. Just how do 'the people in the regular domes get contaminated'?, for after all, a sidha is said to be many times more powerful than the average joe or meditator, you would think the influence would go the other way. Being on probation for an offense that does not seem real, probably will not attract very many. The TMO has shot itself in the head chakra so many times, thinking must be quite difficult for it now. As I have lived mostly about 1,000 miles (1600km) from the domes for a couple of decades now, they seem especially remote to me, and in fact never attracted me. I prefer a kind of isolation. I think we also need to answer the question about what happens when people wake up. Do they need to continue such practices and in what way or for how long? There seems to be no information on this. Waking up frees people from the conceptual bonds that have held them in thrall, and so why would one want to engage with a group that insists they be kept intact? In other words, if what you got from Maharishi freed you, what are your loyalties with regard those illusions that kept you down. Those illusions are everything that one entertained as real prior to awakening, which include the very means that led to freedom. Perhaps that is related to 'the remains of ignorance', the shadows of what one was, whether conservative or liberal or whatnot, that leans one in a tendency to stay with tradition or be a rebel. If the value of what you wanted to establish is with you all the time, what is required to maintain it, if anything? If you build a house, there are certain things you must do; after it is built, there is maintenance, which involves some of the same technology, but not all the time. And enjoying and living in a house, once finished, is a new and different kind of experience to be savoured, unlike the grunt work required to finish it.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
Is a shame to see the Invincible courses come towards an end because the TM Rajas could not get effective numbers of meditators together. Seems saddening to see that the dome numbers with the meditator community are not working out for the tru-believers and that the Invincibility courses should be supplanted and let go this way. The potential was so great, except the Rajas could not bring themselves to figure out a reconciliation with the old meditating community. While Yogic Flying produces a powerful, generalized, non-directed surge of positivity for the general well-being of society, Yagyas create a very focused, concentrated influence of positivity designed to neutralize specific threats. Like the threats that are looming today. Om, Is this now the high-water mark for the dome numbers? The invincible programs? [LAUNCHING: THE NEW NATIONAL YAGYA PROGRAM] Maharishi has designed the most powerful system of Yagya the world has ever seen. The Maharishi National YagyaSM program is a massive application of Yagya on a national scale, specifically engineered to produce the largest possible impact on an entire nation. Focus for 2012: Maharishi Yagyas® for the Nation Join us in this great endeavor, please.Let us launch this powerful new program, may abundant good fortune smile on America, and may Maharishi's great legacy of peace and enlightenment permanently bless the human race. Jai Guru Dev
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
So, are the Rajas actually canceling the Invincibility courses? And what exactly are Invincibility Courses - the courses you can sign up for to round in the Domes that Settle helps underwrite? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: Is a shame to see the Invincible courses come towards an end because the TM Rajas could not get effective numbers of meditators together. Seems saddening to see that the dome numbers with the meditator community are not working out for the tru-believers and that the Invincibility courses should be supplanted and let go this way. The potential was so great, except the Rajas could not bring themselves to figure out a reconciliation with the old meditating community. While Yogic Flying produces a powerful, generalized, non-directed surge of positivity for the general well-being of society, Yagyas create a very focused, concentrated influence of positivity designed to neutralize specific threats. Like the threats that are looming today. Om, Is this now the high-water mark for the dome numbers? The invincible programs? [LAUNCHING: THE NEW NATIONAL YAGYA PROGRAM] Maharishi has designed the most powerful system of Yagya the world has ever seen. The Maharishi National YagyaSM program is a massive application of Yagya on a national scale, specifically engineered to produce the largest possible impact on an entire nation. Focus for 2012: Maharishi Yagyas® for the Nation Join us in this great endeavor, please.Let us launch this powerful new program, may abundant good fortune smile on America, and may Maharishi's great legacy of peace and enlightenment permanently bless the human race. Jai Guru Dev
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: Is a shame to see the Invincible courses come towards an end because the TM Rajas could not get effective numbers of meditators together. Rather than a shame, it seems more like stupidity. Why do they not, on their own, have a yagya performed to get more people into the domes? this would be a loose test of the effectiveness of yagyas, and if effective, it would solve their own difficulty with assembling their own technology, bringing the numbers up to snuff. Then, according to the theory, it should no longer be necessary to perform yagyas to avert the dangers they themselves have engendered, as the dome numbers would take care of that. Could be they do not believe their own hype.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Is a shame to see the Invincible courses come towards an end because the TM Rajas could not get effective numbers of meditators together. Rather than a shame, it seems more like stupidity. Why do they not, on their own, have a yagya performed to get more people into the domes? this would be a loose test of the effectiveness of yagyas, and if effective, it would solve their own difficulty with assembling their own technology, bringing the numbers up to snuff. Then, according to the theory, it should no longer be necessary to perform yagyas to avert the dangers they themselves have engendered, as the dome numbers would take care of that. Could be they do not believe their own hype. I haven't said anything too terribly TM controversial in a while, so I'll wade into this one. :-) I think that -- either consciously or subconsciously -- Bevan and Hagelin and the Rajas have no more intention to *ever* achieve the numbers than Maharishi did. And for a very simple reason -- if you achieve the proper numbers and the expected result does not happen, you will have proved your own technology to be a sham. Can't take that chance. Maharishi could have achieved the numbers AT ANY MOMENT during his life. He *had* the money to do it. And early on he even had the willing followers to do it. But he never did, and I suspect that it's because of the reason I suggest above. He was not willing to put his theories to an actual test. Now that he's gone, there will be even more of a fervor in the Raja types to keep the ME from ever really being put to the test, because if they allowed that and it proved the ME wrong or ineffective, they would have (in their minds) contributed to besmirching the name of their dear departed guru. Not. Gonna. Happen. As for paying for a yagya to achieve the numbers, that's a good idea but again, Not. Gonna. Happen. To do that would violate one of the highest Laws Of Nature: Thou shalt never pay for anything yourself if you can con someone else into paying for it for you. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
Great idea, but way too logical and alarmingly measurable. Hopefully, the folks from the inner circle who scan these posts will hear of this. Here's another idea - open up a separate place in Ffld to do Program (Probation Hall) for all those banned people who would really like to meditate in the Domes. Let them meditate and contribute to world peace etc, but without contaminating the people in the regular Domes. And if you attend Probation Hall programs regularly, swear to your purity, OR make a large donation, you can absolve your sins and work your way into the big Domes. Problem solved. I do see from Buck's point of view how frustrating this whole situation is. There is no way to get forgiveness on this issue. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Is a shame to see the Invincible courses come towards an end because the TM Rajas could not get effective numbers of meditators together. Rather than a shame, it seems more like stupidity. Why do they not, on their own, have a yagya performed to get more people into the domes? this would be a loose test of the effectiveness of yagyas, and if effective, it would solve their own difficulty with assembling their own technology, bringing the numbers up to snuff. Then, according to the theory, it should no longer be necessary to perform yagyas to avert the dangers they themselves have engendered, as the dome numbers would take care of that. Could be they do not believe their own hype.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Is a shame to see the Invincible courses come towards an end because the TM Rajas could not get effective numbers of meditators together. Rather than a shame, it seems more like stupidity. Why do they not, on their own, have a yagya performed to get more people into the domes? this would be a loose test of the effectiveness of yagyas, and if effective, it would solve their own difficulty with assembling their own technology, bringing the numbers up to snuff. Then, according to the theory, it should no longer be necessary to perform yagyas to avert the dangers they themselves have engendered, as the dome numbers would take care of that. Could be they do not believe their own hype. I haven't said anything too terribly TM controversial in a while, so I'll wade into this one. :-) I think that -- either consciously or subconsciously -- Bevan and Hagelin and the Rajas have no more intention to *ever* achieve the numbers than Maharishi did. And for a very simple reason -- if you achieve the proper numbers and the expected result does not happen, you will have proved your own technology to be a sham. Can't take that chance. Maharishi could have achieved the numbers AT ANY MOMENT during his life. He *had* the money to do it. And early on he even had the willing followers to do it. But he never did, and I suspect that it's because of the reason I suggest above. He was not willing to put his theories to an actual test. Now that he's gone, there will be even more of a fervor in the Raja types to keep the ME from ever really being put to the test, because if they allowed that and it proved the ME wrong or ineffective, they would have (in their minds) contributed to besmirching the name of their dear departed guru. Not. Gonna. Happen. As for paying for a yagya to achieve the numbers, that's a good idea but again, Not. Gonna. Happen. To do that would violate one of the highest Laws Of Nature: Thou shalt never pay for anything yourself if you can con someone else into paying for it for you. :-) Hey, they left that particular law of nature out of my SCI course years ago!
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Is a shame to see the Invincible courses come towards an end because the TM Rajas could not get effective numbers of meditators together. Rather than a shame, it seems more like stupidity. Why do they not, on their own, have a yagya performed to get more people into the domes? Just out of curiosity--I really have no idea--can a yagya be given such a specific purpose? Or are the performances preformulated for a range of more general goals, and you pick the one that seems to apply most closely to the specific goal you're aiming for? this would be a loose test of the effectiveness of yagyas, and if effective, it would solve their own difficulty with assembling their own technology, bringing the numbers up to snuff. Then, according to the theory, it should no longer be necessary to perform yagyas to avert the dangers they themselves have engendered, as the dome numbers would take care of that. Could be they do not believe their own hype.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: Is a shame to see the Invincible courses come towards an end because the TM Rajas could not get effective numbers of meditators together. No need to feel sorry. When everything is moved to India you will be sure to enjoy it there !
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@... wrote: Great idea, but way too logical and alarmingly measurable. Hopefully, the folks from the inner circle who scan these posts will hear of this. Here's another idea - open up a separate place in Ffld to do Program (Probation Hall) for all those banned people who would really like to meditate in the Domes. Let them meditate and contribute to world peace etc, but without contaminating the people in the regular Domes. And if you attend Probation Hall programs regularly, swear to your purity, OR make a large donation, you can absolve your sins and work your way into the big Domes. Problem solved. I do see from Buck's point of view how frustrating this whole situation is. There is no way to get forgiveness on this issue. Better still; move the whole operation to India and let the americans carry their own cross.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@... wrote: Great idea, but way too logical and alarmingly measurable. Hopefully, the folks from the inner circle who scan these posts will hear of this. Here's another idea - open up a separate place in Ffld to do Program (Probation Hall) for all those banned people who would really like to meditate in the Domes. Let them meditate and contribute to world peace etc, but without contaminating the people in the regular Domes. And if you attend Probation Hall programs regularly, swear to your purity, OR make a large donation, you can absolve your sins and work your way into the big Domes. Problem solved. I do see from Buck's point of view how frustrating this whole situation is. There is no way to get forgiveness on this issue. Susan, Doug Hamilton has been on this from the earliest posts to this forum, long, long before I came on here. Post #6 and post #13: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/6 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/13 He seems genuinely concerned about this disruption of community. As spiritual movements degenerate into religion (belief as opposed to direct experience) I suspect the resistance to testing the metaphysical underpinnings of the enterprise becomes more intense. There are many metaphysical ideas which have testable physical consequences because they are supposed to have a result in the world. For example global warming does appear to be increasing. The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (http://www.venganza.org/) claims this is because the number of pirates in the world is declining: http://www.venganza.org/images/PiratesVsTemp.png However the number of pirates on the high seas seems to have increased in the past couple of decades from something like 100 to perhaps 3000, largely because of Somalia. This is a serious theological threat to the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (COTFSM) because the number of pirates is increasing, but global temperatures continue to rise. And there are of course online pirates that have increased significantly to, although, strictly speaking, the COTFSM is referring specifically to pirates on the high seas. The Church here referred to is of course a parody of religious thought, but it is exactly the kind of thinking the TMO expects people to have. Anyone here on this forum who has a spiritual bent, not excluding me either, has probably fallen into the ridiculous logic promoted by this way of thinking one time or another, even without realising it. What we see here on the forum is people that are in various stages of breaking away from that misguided logic, and trying to come to terms with existence as it is, not as we think it ought to be, or more particularly, as someone else thinks we ought to think it to be. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Is a shame to see the Invincible courses come towards an end because the TM Rajas could not get effective numbers of meditators together. Rather than a shame, it seems more like stupidity. Why do they not, on their own, have a yagya performed to get more people into the domes? this would be a loose test of the effectiveness of yagyas, and if effective, it would solve their own difficulty with assembling their own technology, bringing the numbers up to snuff. Then, according to the theory, it should no longer be necessary to perform yagyas to avert the dangers they themselves have engendered, as the dome numbers would take care of that. Could be they do not believe their own hype.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
Xenophaneros Anartaxius said: What we see here on the forum is people that are in various stages of breaking away from that misguided logic, and trying to come to terms with existence as it is, not as we think it ought to be, or more particularly, as someone else thinks we ought to think it to be. In my experience and opinion, coming to terms with existence as it is and not as we think it ought to be is one of the most rewarding endeavors a human can engage in. (And I'm tempted to say, ought to engage in.) Thanks for your posts. Good stuff. *** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: Great idea, but way too logical and alarmingly measurable. Hopefully, the folks from the inner circle who scan these posts will hear of this. Here's another idea - open up a separate place in Ffld to do Program (Probation Hall) for all those banned people who would really like to meditate in the Domes. Let them meditate and contribute to world peace etc, but without contaminating the people in the regular Domes. And if you attend Probation Hall programs regularly, swear to your purity, OR make a large donation, you can absolve your sins and work your way into the big Domes. Problem solved. I do see from Buck's point of view how frustrating this whole situation is. There is no way to get forgiveness on this issue. Susan, Doug Hamilton has been on this from the earliest posts to this forum, long, long before I came on here. Post #6 and post #13: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/6 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/13 He seems genuinely concerned about this disruption of community. As spiritual movements degenerate into religion (belief as opposed to direct experience) I suspect the resistance to testing the metaphysical underpinnings of the enterprise becomes more intense. There are many metaphysical ideas which have testable physical consequences because they are supposed to have a result in the world. For example global warming does appear to be increasing. The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (http://www.venganza.org/) claims this is because the number of pirates in the world is declining: http://www.venganza.org/images/PiratesVsTemp.png However the number of pirates on the high seas seems to have increased in the past couple of decades from something like 100 to perhaps 3000, largely because of Somalia. This is a serious theological threat to the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (COTFSM) because the number of pirates is increasing, but global temperatures continue to rise. And there are of course online pirates that have increased significantly to, although, strictly speaking, the COTFSM is referring specifically to pirates on the high seas. The Church here referred to is of course a parody of religious thought, but it is exactly the kind of thinking the TMO expects people to have. Anyone here on this forum who has a spiritual bent, not excluding me either, has probably fallen into the ridiculous logic promoted by this way of thinking one time or another, even without realising it. What we see here on the forum is people that are in various stages of breaking away from that misguided logic, and trying to come to terms with existence as it is, not as we think it ought to be, or more particularly, as someone else thinks we ought to think it to be. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Is a shame to see the Invincible courses come towards an end because the TM Rajas could not get effective numbers of meditators together. Rather than a shame, it seems more like stupidity. Why do they not, on their own, have a yagya performed to get more people into the domes? this would be a loose test of the effectiveness of yagyas, and if effective, it would solve their own difficulty with assembling their own technology, bringing the numbers up to snuff. Then, according to the theory, it should no longer be necessary to perform yagyas to avert the dangers they themselves have engendered, as the dome numbers would take care of that. Could be they do not believe their own hype.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: Great idea, but way too logical and alarmingly measurable. Hopefully, the folks from the inner circle who scan these posts will hear of this. Here's another idea - open up a separate place in Ffld to do Program (Probation Hall) for all those banned people who would really like to meditate in the Domes. Let them meditate and contribute to world peace etc, but without contaminating the people in the regular Domes. And if you attend Probation Hall programs regularly, swear to your purity, OR make a large donation, you can absolve your sins and work your way into the big Domes. Problem solved. I do see from Buck's point of view how frustrating this whole situation is. There is no way to get forgiveness on this issue. Susan, Doug Hamilton has been on this from the earliest posts to this forum, long, long before I came on here. Post #6 and post #13: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/6 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/13 He seems genuinely concerned about this disruption of community. As spiritual movements degenerate into religion (belief as opposed to direct experience) I suspect the resistance to testing the metaphysical underpinnings of the enterprise becomes more intense. There are many metaphysical ideas which have testable physical consequences because they are supposed to have a result in the world. For example global warming does appear to be increasing. The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (http://www.venganza.org/) claims this is because the number of pirates in the world is declining: http://www.venganza.org/images/PiratesVsTemp.png A graph! Aha. That proves it. Thanks:-) However the number of pirates on the high seas seems to have increased in the past couple of decades from something like 100 to perhaps 3000, largely because of Somalia. This is a serious theological threat to the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (COTFSM) because the number of pirates is increasing, but global temperatures continue to rise. And there are of course online pirates that have increased significantly to, although, strictly speaking, the COTFSM is referring specifically to pirates on the high seas. The Church here referred to is of course a parody of religious thought, but it is exactly the kind of thinking the TMO expects people to have. Anyone here on this forum who has a spiritual bent, not excluding me either, has probably fallen into the ridiculous logic promoted by this way of thinking one time or another, even without realising it. What we see here on the forum is people that are in various stages of breaking away from that misguided logic, and trying to come to terms with existence as it is, not as we think it ought to be, or more particularly, as someone else thinks we ought to think it to be. Very well said..I too am in that process and it is interesting and not always comfortable at all. Sometimes I miss the fairy tale mentality and the feeling that I am pretty certain about things. For example, I wish I still believed in reincarnation, but am now not so sure at all about that. Also, it seems more and more likely that awakening is just a brain state that we encourage thru various practices. It results in the death of the ego, so those who are awakened in this way have, in a sense, already died. Of course, they are also seeing things more for the way they really are, which is good - I think. So they don't really care about life after death since there is no I anyway. I ramble.. and am not thinking so clearly, but you get it.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
Maharishi's National Yagya Program is a powerful application of the technology of Yagya on a national scale to prevent problems and improve the fortune of an entire nation. National Yagyas involve especially large groups of Maharishi Vedic Pandits located at the Brahmasthan (the geographic center and resonant power spot) of India. These National Yagyas continue over many days or even weeks, depending on the size of the desired effect and the magnitude of the problem being averted or defused, for example a natural disaster, violent outbreak, or severe economic downturn. While Yogic Flying produces a powerful, generalized, non-directed surge of positivity for the general well-being of society, Yagyas create a very focused, concentrated influence of positivity designed to neutralize specific threats. Like the threats that are looming today. [LAUNCHING: THE NEW NATIONAL YAGYA PROGRAM] Maharishi has designed the most powerful system of Yagya the world has ever seen. The Maharishi National YagyaSM program is a massive application of Yagya on a national scale, specifically engineered to produce the largest possible impact on an entire nation. Focus for 2012: Maharishi Yagyas® for the Nation Join us in this great endeavor, please.Let us launch this powerful new program, may abundant good fortune smile on America, and may Maharishi's great legacy of peace and enlightenment permanently bless the human race. Jai Guru Dev
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, futur.musik futur.musik@... wrote: Agreed, just as scientists have been able to extend the range of their senses by invention, we need finer instrumentation, and a way to filter out the grosser vibrations to be able to sense these other phenomena. By using conventional crude apparatus, there is little more to discover, imo. 87 ACI
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, azgrey no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, futur.musik futur.musik@ wrote: Agreed, just as scientists have been able to extend the range of their senses by invention, we need finer instrumentation, and a way to filter out the grosser vibrations to be able to sense these other phenomena. By using conventional crude apparatus, there is little more to discover, imo. 87 ACI LOL.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
All area Satsangs: While Yogic Flying produces a powerful, generalized, non-directed surge of positivity for the general well-being of society, Yagyas create a very focused, concentrated influence of positivity designed to neutralize specific threats. Like the threats that are looming today. Om, Is this now the high-water mark for the dome numbers? The invincible programs? [LAUNCHING: THE NEW NATIONAL YAGYA PROGRAM] Maharishi has designed the most powerful system of Yagya the world has ever seen. The Maharishi National YagyaSM program is a massive application of Yagya on a national scale, specifically engineered to produce the largest possible impact on an entire nation. Focus for 2012: Maharishi Yagyas® for the Nation Join us in this great endeavor, please.Let us launch this powerful new program, may abundant good fortune smile on America, and may Maharishi's great legacy of peace and enlightenment permanently bless the human race. Jai Guru Dev
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
Today the United States TM® organization (Maharishi Foundation USA) is launching this Maharishi National Yagya Program in a major way. In conjunction with the Brahmananda Saraswati Foundation USA, we are directly overseeing the highly professional, cost-efficient management of this program to ensure its maximal effectiveness in every respect. All area Satsangs: While Yogic Flying produces a powerful, generalized, non-directed surge of positivity for the general well-being of society, Yagyas create a very focused, concentrated influence of positivity designed to neutralize specific threats. Like the threats that are looming today. Om, Is this now the high-water mark for the dome numbers? The invincible programs? [LAUNCHING: THE NEW NATIONAL YAGYA PROGRAM] Maharishi has designed the most powerful system of Yagya the world has ever seen. The Maharishi National YagyaSM program is a massive application of Yagya on a national scale, specifically engineered to produce the largest possible impact on an entire nation. Focus for 2012: Maharishi Yagyas® for the Nation Join us in this great endeavor, please.Let us launch this powerful new program, may abundant good fortune smile on America, and may Maharishi's great legacy of peace and enlightenment permanently bless the human race. Jai Guru Dev
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, futur.musik futur.musik@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: snip There have been a number of large well-designed studies recently, such as the Templeton study, of 'intercessionary prayer', which seem a lot like yagyas. These studies failed to show any effect. Is intercessory prayer *enough* like yagyas to extrapolate the results of the prayer tests to yagyas? I can think of several differences that could render such extraplation pretty weak. Psychic, long-distance phenomena have been studied for years without making a dent in the scientific community as the results have never been clear cut, and studies have been found to contain serious flaws which became evident when replication attempts failed, such as the Targ-Puthoff long distance viewing study many years ago. The result of this study seems to have been mentioned by MMY in the Science of Being and Art of Living as an established fact, but in fact, the result was disproved. Or rather, the results were not confirmed, right? Do you have a cite for this? Doesn't sound accurate. I read that book thoroughly when it came out and there was no Autobiography of a Yogi stuff in it. It is all about integrating TM into society. Actually I meant a cite for the Targ-Puthoff results being disproved. I don't know about SBAL mentioning the study. Don't care about that one way or the other. You hate God and Maharishi. Period. Whether you are correct or accountable in your endless pursuits of putdowns does matter the least.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, futur.musik futur.musik@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: snip There have been a number of large well-designed studies recently, such as the Templeton study, of 'intercessionary prayer', which seem a lot like yagyas. These studies failed to show any effect. Is intercessory prayer *enough* like yagyas to extrapolate the results of the prayer tests to yagyas? I can think of several differences that could render such extraplation pretty weak. Psychic, long-distance phenomena have been studied for years without making a dent in the scientific community as the results have never been clear cut, and studies have been found to contain serious flaws which became evident when replication attempts failed, such as the Targ-Puthoff long distance viewing study many years ago. The result of this study seems to have been mentioned by MMY in the Science of Being and Art of Living as an established fact, but in fact, the result was disproved. Or rather, the results were not confirmed, right? Do you have a cite for this? Doesn't sound accurate. I read that book thoroughly when it came out and there was no Autobiography of a Yogi stuff in it. It is all about integrating TM into society. Actually I meant a cite for the Targ-Puthoff results being disproved. I don't know about SBAL mentioning the study. Don't care about that one way or the other. You hate God and Maharishi. Period. Whether you are correct or accountable in your endless pursuits of putdowns does not matter the least.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
This post is an epistemological field day! It brings up many questions about how we can be confident about what we know. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: snip There have been a number of large well-designed studies recently, such as the Templeton study, of 'intercessionary prayer', which seem a lot like yagyas. These studies failed to show any effect. The question of proof. Unlike the statement. Jesus saved me so I will live forever when I die, these claims about effects in the world can be proven. If they were true they would crush all skeptics. So Xeno had to use as close as he could get to even find such a study. Why is that? Here is an area where believers could shine, so why is this the only study that even comes close to these claims? You could say that the religious people who are most into yagyas don't care, but the movement has no such excuse and has been pitching yagyas for decades now, the claim is in Maharishi's earliest books. Is intercessory prayer *enough* like yagyas to extrapolate the results of the prayer tests to yagyas? I can think of several differences that could render such extraplation pretty weak. Hard to argue with Judy here. Of course this is a generic criticism whenever you have a study that doesn't use exactly the same technique. So if some yagya guys's deal doesn't pan out then it can be claimed that it wasn't Maharishi's super yagyas. But that is why applying science need requires humility and she has a point. Psychic, long-distance phenomena have been studied for years without making a dent in the scientific community as the results have never been clear cut, and studies have been found to contain serious flaws which became evident when replication attempts failed, such as the Targ-Puthoff long distance viewing study many years ago. The result of this study seems to have been mentioned by MMY in the Science of Being and Art of Living as an established fact, but in fact, the result was disproved. I would expect after all these years of study and people's genuine enthusiasm to prove these claims that we would have something substantial to show for it all by now. Is that unreasonable? I mean when you have claims about things in the world you can test why not go for it? The press would be all over it, they even love shitty science on flashy topics. On the other hand the amount of fraud that has been turned up in these demonstrations is appalling. This is an area where people are determined to dupe scientists so you have a separate problem from the usual ones in scientific discovery, willful fraud. What other area of science has so many people willing to bullshit scientists? (Well lst's see pharmaceuticals...OK every area where money can be made.) So you need a magician in the lab too. Do you need a magician in the lab when you do intelligence tests? No. People can be deceitful and get it wrong but you don't have such a concerted effort for flim-flamery. If the field wants respect it needs to tighten up, police its own, and produce the real deal. The believers should be the most offended by fraud and the most eager to root it out rather than attacking people who are skeptical and try to catch the bamboozelers. Or rather, the results were not confirmed, right? Do you have a cite for this? Again Judy scores in something important to keep our eye on, the distinction between disproving something and not confirming it. There is a slight spin at work here though because in science, not being able to replicate something can be a bad sign for the claims. It depends on the strength of the follow up studies and how good the original research was. If there were fundamental flaws in the first studies but not the second, it is as close to disproving as you get in science sometimes. It can be the equivalent to no effect being found so no reason to support the claims. We would have to hear specific criticism of the both studies which I'll bet Judy is looking for. And again it should be the believers who are the most rigorous in this area to make sure that it gets confirmed. That is how science helps detect bad protocol. I'll have to do some research in this specific study, perhaps the discrediting went further than non replication. Doesn't sound accurate. I read that book thoroughly when it came out and there was no Autobiography of a Yogi stuff in it. It is all about integrating TM into society. I don't think this is the best angle on disproving the claim that it is in there. I hope someone checks my SOB is buried under books I am more likely to read. Actually I meant a cite for the Targ-Puthoff results being disproved. I don't know about SBAL mentioning the study. Don't care
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@... wrote: This post is an epistemological field day! It brings up many questions about how we can be confident about what we know. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: snip There have been a number of large well-designed studies recently, such as the Templeton study, of 'intercessionary prayer', which seem a lot like yagyas. These studies failed to show any effect. The question of proof. Unlike the statement. Jesus saved me so I will live forever when I die, these claims about effects in the world can be proven. If they were true they would crush all skeptics. So Xeno had to use as close as he could get to even find such a study. Why is that? Here is an area where believers could shine, so why is this the only study that even comes close to these claims? You could say that the religious people who are most into yagyas don't care, but the movement has no such excuse and has been pitching yagyas for decades now, the claim is in Maharishi's earliest books. Is intercessory prayer *enough* like yagyas to extrapolate the results of the prayer tests to yagyas? I can think of several differences that could render such extraplation pretty weak. Hard to argue with Judy here. Of course this is a generic criticism whenever you have a study that doesn't use exactly the same technique. So if some yagya guys's deal doesn't pan out then it can be claimed that it wasn't Maharishi's super yagyas. But that is why applying science need requires humility and she has a point. Psychic, long-distance phenomena have been studied for years without making a dent in the scientific community as the results have never been clear cut, and studies have been found to contain serious flaws which became evident when replication attempts failed, such as the Targ-Puthoff long distance viewing study many years ago. The result of this study seems to have been mentioned by MMY in the Science of Being and Art of Living as an established fact, but in fact, the result was disproved. I would expect after all these years of study and people's genuine enthusiasm to prove these claims that we would have something substantial to show for it all by now. Is that unreasonable? I mean when you have claims about things in the world you can test why not go for it? The press would be all over it, they even love shitty science on flashy topics. On the other hand the amount of fraud that has been turned up in these demonstrations is appalling. This is an area where people are determined to dupe scientists so you have a separate problem from the usual ones in scientific discovery, willful fraud. What other area of science has so many people willing to bullshit scientists? (Well lst's see pharmaceuticals...OK every area where money can be made.) So you need a magician in the lab too. Do you need a magician in the lab when you do intelligence tests? No. People can be deceitful and get it wrong but you don't have such a concerted effort for flim-flamery. If the field wants respect it needs to tighten up, police its own, and produce the real deal. The believers should be the most offended by fraud and the most eager to root it out rather than attacking people who are skeptical and try to catch the bamboozelers. Or rather, the results were not confirmed, right? Do you have a cite for this? Again Judy scores in something important to keep our eye on, the distinction between disproving something and not confirming it. There is a slight spin at work here though because in science, not being able to replicate something can be a bad sign for the claims. It depends on the strength of the follow up studies and how good the original research was. If there were fundamental flaws in the first studies but not the second, it is as close to disproving as you get in science sometimes. It can be the equivalent to no effect being found so no reason to support the claims. We would have to hear specific criticism of the both studies which I'll bet Judy is looking for. And again it should be the believers who are the most rigorous in this area to make sure that it gets confirmed. That is how science helps detect bad protocol. I'll have to do some research in this specific study, perhaps the discrediting went further than non replication. Doesn't sound accurate. I read that book thoroughly when it came out and there was no Autobiography of a Yogi stuff in it. It is all about integrating TM into society. I don't think this is the best angle on disproving the claim that it is in there. I hope someone checks my SOB is buried
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@... wrote: This post is an epistemological field day! It brings up many questions about how we can be confident about what we know. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: snip There have been a number of large well-designed studies recently, such as the Templeton study, of 'intercessionary prayer', which seem a lot like yagyas. These studies failed to show any effect. The question of proof. Unlike the statement. Jesus saved me so I will live forever when I die, these claims about effects in the world can be proven. If they were true they would crush all skeptics. So Xeno had to use as close as he could get to even find such a study. Why is that? Here is an area where believers could shine, so why is this the only study that even comes close to these claims? You could say that the religious people who are most into yagyas don't care, but the movement has no such excuse and has been pitching yagyas for decades now, the claim is in Maharishi's earliest books. Is intercessory prayer *enough* like yagyas to extrapolate the results of the prayer tests to yagyas? I can think of several differences that could render such extraplation pretty weak. Hard to argue with Judy here. Of course this is a generic criticism whenever you have a study that doesn't use exactly the same technique. So if some yagya guys's deal doesn't pan out then it can be claimed that it wasn't Maharishi's super yagyas. Don't quite understand the last sentence here. What super yagyas? But that is why applying science need requires humility and she has a point. FWIW, the major difference between intercessory prayer and yagyas is that the kind of prayer that was tested, as I understand it, was free-form and ad lib among those who were praying; whereas there is no such variation with yagyas: they're performed ritualistically, strictly according to prescribed formulas, not just the words uttered but every movement, every bit of physical paraphernalia used, etc., etc., most likely including aspects I'm not even aware of. In this regard a yagya is more like the Catholic Mass, although obviously the purposes there are different. The fact that TM is taught and practiced in a strictly prescribed manner, as it happens, makes it an ideal technique for scientific study of their effects because the variables are minimal, in contrast to many other techniques. Ironically, this same characteristic *should* also make yagyas ideal for scientific study. But there are problems with variables in terms of the predicted *effects*, which are typically not very specific, and which do not include a time frame. That introduces the issue of unfalsifiability. If a yagya is performed, say, for an individual's increased prosperity, and no increase in the individual's income is apparent after six months, has the efficacy of the yagya been shown to be nonexistent? If those doing a study of an individual yagya imposed such specifics on the predicted effects in advance, could you still even call what they were studying a yagya? To what degree can you tighten up the protocols before you stray from what should have been the original purpose of the yagya? It all gets very complicated when you take this sort of thing into account. Psychic, long-distance phenomena have been studied for years without making a dent in the scientific community as the results have never been clear cut, and studies have been found to contain serious flaws which became evident when replication attempts failed, such as the Targ-Puthoff long distance viewing study many years ago. The result of this study seems to have been mentioned by MMY in the Science of Being and Art of Living as an established fact, but in fact, the result was disproved. snip Or rather, the results were not confirmed, right? Do you have a cite for this? Again Judy scores in something important to keep our eye on, the distinction between disproving something and not confirming it. There is a slight spin at work here though because in science, not being able to replicate something can be a bad sign for the claims. Of course. Where's the spin? Disproved is just inaccurate terminology. It depends on the strength of the follow up studies and how good the original research was. If there were fundamental flaws in the first studies but not the second, it is as close to disproving as you get in science sometimes. Right. But you still can't say the first study's results were disproved. It can be the equivalent to no effect being found so no reason to support the claims. We would have to hear specific criticism of the both studies which I'll bet Judy is looking for. And
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: What I want to know is, to whom was Nabby addressing this remark? It appeared to be in response to my follow-up post quoted immediately above it. That seems unlikely, but it also seems unlikely with regard to either whynotnow or Xeno, so I'm baffled. I certainly intended no putdown of MMY or God (??). Ofcourse, I know this very well Judy. My post was a comment to Curtis' neverending rants about anything he can't see/hear etc with his restricted senses or understand with his restricted intelligence.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote: Many of these things/ideas will eventually hold up to scrutiny as you put it. But it may take time. Like Maharishi suggested it could take 400 years. Awesome, then sign me up for 50 yagyas and I'll pay in 400 years. If the effects are claimed to be within our lifetime however, they could set up a way to demonstrate this beyond: people who also thought the heart organ was the center of our cognitive ability thought this was also true. Others, not so long, like the UFO phenomenon for example. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FQuTnnVXM4feature=player_embedded I like that guy. And as long as you are talking unidentified flying objects who could have a problem? The word. unidentified is the key. It is when you claim that you have identified them as aliens that you jump the shark. Things are happening fast, both inner and outer. Unfortunately Curtis is holdingon to the same old, same old as if nothing happened. That's a shame and why I'm pointing it out. His thinking is a cry from a dying age. Shooting the messenger for pointing out a lack of good reasons is really the old school thinking. Asking the movement to demonstrate the effects in the world they claim has been a popular style of thinking since the real age of enlightenment when we switched from church authority based knowledge to Hey Tony wuddya say we take dis car on a test ride before we put the kids in the back seat and drive to the Jersey Shore? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: This post is an epistemological field day! It brings up many questions about how we can be confident about what we know. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: snip There have been a number of large well-designed studies recently, such as the Templeton study, of 'intercessionary prayer', which seem a lot like yagyas. These studies failed to show any effect. The question of proof. Unlike the statement. Jesus saved me so I will live forever when I die, these claims about effects in the world can be proven. If they were true they would crush all skeptics. So Xeno had to use as close as he could get to even find such a study. Why is that? Here is an area where believers could shine, so why is this the only study that even comes close to these claims? You could say that the religious people who are most into yagyas don't care, but the movement has no such excuse and has been pitching yagyas for decades now, the claim is in Maharishi's earliest books. Is intercessory prayer *enough* like yagyas to extrapolate the results of the prayer tests to yagyas? I can think of several differences that could render such extraplation pretty weak. Hard to argue with Judy here. Of course this is a generic criticism whenever you have a study that doesn't use exactly the same technique. So if some yagya guys's deal doesn't pan out then it can be claimed that it wasn't Maharishi's super yagyas. But that is why applying science need requires humility and she has a point. Psychic, long-distance phenomena have been studied for years without making a dent in the scientific community as the results have never been clear cut, and studies have been found to contain serious flaws which became evident when replication attempts failed, such as the Targ-Puthoff long distance viewing study many years ago. The result of this study seems to have been mentioned by MMY in the Science of Being and Art of Living as an established fact, but in fact, the result was disproved. I would expect after all these years of study and people's genuine enthusiasm to prove these claims that we would have something substantial to show for it all by now. Is that unreasonable? I mean when you have claims about things in the world you can test why not go for it? The press would be all over it, they even love shitty science on flashy topics. On the other hand the amount of fraud that has been turned up in these demonstrations is appalling. This is an area where people are determined to dupe scientists so you have a separate problem from the usual ones in scientific discovery, willful fraud. What other area of science has so many people willing to bullshit scientists? (Well lst's see pharmaceuticals...OK every area where money can be made.) So you need a magician in the lab too. Do you need a magician in the lab when you do intelligence tests? No. People can be deceitful and get it wrong but you don't have such a concerted effort for flim-flamery. If the field wants respect it needs to tighten up, police its own, and produce
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: What I want to know is, to whom was Nabby addressing this remark? It appeared to be in response to my follow-up post quoted immediately above it. That seems unlikely, but it also seems unlikely with regard to either whynotnow or Xeno, so I'm baffled. I certainly intended no putdown of MMY or God (??). Ofcourse, I know this very well Judy. My post was a comment to Curtis' neverending rants about anything he can't see/hear etc with his restricted senses or understand with his restricted intelligence. OK, thanks for letting me know. It's just that Curtis hadn't contributed at all to the post you were responding to.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: What I want to know is, to whom was Nabby addressing this remark? It appeared to be in response to my follow-up post quoted immediately above it. That seems unlikely, but it also seems unlikely with regard to either whynotnow or Xeno, so I'm baffled. I certainly intended no putdown of MMY or God (??). Ofcourse, I know this very well Judy. My post was a comment to Curtis' neverending rants about anything he can't see/hear etc with his restricted senses or understand with his restricted intelligence. OK, thanks for letting me know. It's just that Curtis hadn't contributed at all to the post you were responding to. His rants are there, hence my respons.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: snip There have been a number of large well-designed studies recently, such as the Templeton study, of 'intercessionary prayer', which seem a lot like yagyas. These studies failed to show any effect. Is intercessory prayer *enough* like yagyas to extrapolate the results of the prayer tests to yagyas? I can think of several differences that could render such extrapolation pretty weak. Judy, Yagyas and intercessory prayer are different but they both seem to rely on 'action at a distance' through some kind of non-physical intervention via the human mind and experience. The philosophical conundrum here is how does something that is non-physical affect a physical entity. A physicist would currently have to rely on gravity, the strong interaction, the weak force, or the electromagnetic force to attempt to explain such a thing. Saying it is 'consciousness' does not help at present because scientists cannot agree on what consciousness is or whether it can actually do anything. Psychic, long-distance phenomena have been studied for years without making a dent in the scientific community as the results have never been clear cut, and studies have been found to contain serious flaws which became evident when replication attempts failed, such as the Targ-Puthoff long distance viewing study many years ago. The result of this study seems to have been mentioned by MMY in the Science of Being and Art of Living as an established fact, but in fact, the result was disproved. Or rather, the results were not confirmed, right? Yes, not confirmed, the null hypothesis confirmed. 'Proven' is loose usage. Do you have a cite for this? Marks, D.F. Kammann, R. (1980). The Psychology of the Psychic. Buffalo, New York: Prometheus Books.ISBN 0-87975-121-5 (cloth) I read this many years ago and I think there may be a second edition. It went over the Targ-Puthoff remote viewing experiments. As I recall, a replication of the experiment failed to confirm. Their subsequent investigation showed that the replicators had removed verbal queues that allowed the graders to match up locations with drawings. This had something to do with how the hits and misses of remote viewing experiment were categorised. When they were able to get raw data from Targ and Putoff, they found such verbal information in the data. When the same data was truly blinded, the remote viewing failed with the original experimental data. The Templeton Study was done by Herbert Benson. http://www.ahjonline.com/article/S0002-8703(05)00649-6/abstract
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
...Yagyas and intercessory prayer are different but they both seem to rely on 'action at a distance' through some kind of non-physical intervention via the human mind and experience. The philosophical conundrum here is how does something that is non-physical affect a physical entity. A physicist would currently have to rely on gravity, the strong interaction, the weak force, or the electromagnetic force to attempt to explain such a thing. Saying it is 'consciousness' does not help at present because scientists cannot agree on what consciousness is or whether it can actually do anything. Agreed, just as scientists have been able to extend the range of their senses by invention, we need finer instrumentation, and a way to filter out the grosser vibrations to be able to sense these other phenomena. By using conventional crude apparatus, there is little more to discover, imo. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: snip There have been a number of large well-designed studies recently, such as the Templeton study, of 'intercessionary prayer', which seem a lot like yagyas. These studies failed to show any effect. Is intercessory prayer *enough* like yagyas to extrapolate the results of the prayer tests to yagyas? I can think of several differences that could render such extrapolation pretty weak. Judy, Yagyas and intercessory prayer are different but they both seem to rely on 'action at a distance' through some kind of non-physical intervention via the human mind and experience. The philosophical conundrum here is how does something that is non-physical affect a physical entity. A physicist would currently have to rely on gravity, the strong interaction, the weak force, or the electromagnetic force to attempt to explain such a thing. Saying it is 'consciousness' does not help at present because scientists cannot agree on what consciousness is or whether it can actually do anything. Psychic, long-distance phenomena have been studied for years without making a dent in the scientific community as the results have never been clear cut, and studies have been found to contain serious flaws which became evident when replication attempts failed, such as the Targ-Puthoff long distance viewing study many years ago. The result of this study seems to have been mentioned by MMY in the Science of Being and Art of Living as an established fact, but in fact, the result was disproved. Or rather, the results were not confirmed, right? Yes, not confirmed, the null hypothesis confirmed. 'Proven' is loose usage. Do you have a cite for this? Marks, D.F. Kammann, R. (1980). The Psychology of the Psychic. Buffalo, New York: Prometheus Books.ISBN 0-87975-121-5 (cloth) I read this many years ago and I think there may be a second edition. It went over the Targ-Puthoff remote viewing experiments. As I recall, a replication of the experiment failed to confirm. Their subsequent investigation showed that the replicators had removed verbal queues that allowed the graders to match up locations with drawings. This had something to do with how the hits and misses of remote viewing experiment were categorised. When they were able to get raw data from Targ and Putoff, they found such verbal information in the data. When the same data was truly blinded, the remote viewing failed with the original experimental data. The Templeton Study was done by Herbert Benson. http://www.ahjonline.com/article/S0002-8703(05)00649-6/abstract
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, futur.musik futur.musik@... wrote: ...Yagyas and intercessory prayer are different but they both seem to rely on 'action at a distance' through some kind of non-physical intervention via the human mind and experience. The philosophical conundrum here is how does something that is non-physical affect a physical entity. A physicist would currently have to rely on gravity, the strong interaction, the weak force, or the electromagnetic force to attempt to explain such a thing. Saying it is 'consciousness' does not help at present because scientists cannot agree on what consciousness is or whether it can actually do anything. Agreed, just as scientists have been able to extend the range of their senses by invention, we need finer instrumentation, and a way to filter out the grosser vibrations to be able to sense these other phenomena. By using conventional crude apparatus, there is little more to discover, imo. The current approach is based on taking physical phenomenon as a baseline and continuing to discover based on that paradigm. What is needed is an approach that assumes the presence of phenomena in higher frequency ranges (x1000), similar to the discovery of fields in the ultraviolet and infrared spectrum. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: snip There have been a number of large well-designed studies recently, such as the Templeton study, of 'intercessionary prayer', which seem a lot like yagyas. These studies failed to show any effect. Is intercessory prayer *enough* like yagyas to extrapolate the results of the prayer tests to yagyas? I can think of several differences that could render such extrapolation pretty weak. Judy, Yagyas and intercessory prayer are different but they both seem to rely on 'action at a distance' through some kind of non-physical intervention via the human mind and experience. The philosophical conundrum here is how does something that is non-physical affect a physical entity. A physicist would currently have to rely on gravity, the strong interaction, the weak force, or the electromagnetic force to attempt to explain such a thing. Saying it is 'consciousness' does not help at present because scientists cannot agree on what consciousness is or whether it can actually do anything. Psychic, long-distance phenomena have been studied for years without making a dent in the scientific community as the results have never been clear cut, and studies have been found to contain serious flaws which became evident when replication attempts failed, such as the Targ-Puthoff long distance viewing study many years ago. The result of this study seems to have been mentioned by MMY in the Science of Being and Art of Living as an established fact, but in fact, the result was disproved. Or rather, the results were not confirmed, right? Yes, not confirmed, the null hypothesis confirmed. 'Proven' is loose usage. Do you have a cite for this? Marks, D.F. Kammann, R. (1980). The Psychology of the Psychic. Buffalo, New York: Prometheus Books.ISBN 0-87975-121-5 (cloth) I read this many years ago and I think there may be a second edition. It went over the Targ-Puthoff remote viewing experiments. As I recall, a replication of the experiment failed to confirm. Their subsequent investigation showed that the replicators had removed verbal queues that allowed the graders to match up locations with drawings. This had something to do with how the hits and misses of remote viewing experiment were categorised. When they were able to get raw data from Targ and Putoff, they found such verbal information in the data. When the same data was truly blinded, the remote viewing failed with the original experimental data. The Templeton Study was done by Herbert Benson. http://www.ahjonline.com/article/S0002-8703(05)00649-6/abstract
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, futur.musik futur.musik@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: snip There have been a number of large well-designed studies recently, such as the Templeton study, of 'intercessionary prayer', which seem a lot like yagyas. These studies failed to show any effect. Is intercessory prayer *enough* like yagyas to extrapolate the results of the prayer tests to yagyas? I can think of several differences that could render such extraplation pretty weak. Psychic, long-distance phenomena have been studied for years without making a dent in the scientific community as the results have never been clear cut, and studies have been found to contain serious flaws which became evident when replication attempts failed, such as the Targ-Puthoff long distance viewing study many years ago. The result of this study seems to have been mentioned by MMY in the Science of Being and Art of Living as an established fact, but in fact, the result was disproved. Or rather, the results were not confirmed, right? Do you have a cite for this? Doesn't sound accurate. I read that book thoroughly when it came out and there was no Autobiography of a Yogi stuff in it. It is all about integrating TM into society. Actually I meant a cite for the Targ-Puthoff results being disproved. I don't know about SBAL mentioning the study. Don't care about that one way or the other. I just recall that SBAL had a comment that long distance action or something like that was in there as if it were an established fact. The only experiment I knew of around the time the book came out were the Targ-Putoff experiments. Unfortunately I do not have a copy of SBAL with me, and perhaps I have incorrectly remembered this comment. I read it somewhere. It also might only be in the version not edited by the TMO published as a paperback, that is the very first printing before the revised edition came out. But MMY's book came out in 1963 before those experiments, so if I remembered correctly, it could not have been a reference to Targ and Puthoff's work. Maybe MMY (if I am not mistaken,that is) got it from Charlie Lutes, who was pretty esoteric in those early days.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
could be. I'm willing to go either way. I recall I was predisposed to finding esoteric bits in spiritual books at the time, and found precious few in Maharishi's stuff. Having said that, I read the book in 1977... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, futur.musik futur.musik@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: snip There have been a number of large well-designed studies recently, such as the Templeton study, of 'intercessionary prayer', which seem a lot like yagyas. These studies failed to show any effect. Is intercessory prayer *enough* like yagyas to extrapolate the results of the prayer tests to yagyas? I can think of several differences that could render such extraplation pretty weak. Psychic, long-distance phenomena have been studied for years without making a dent in the scientific community as the results have never been clear cut, and studies have been found to contain serious flaws which became evident when replication attempts failed, such as the Targ-Puthoff long distance viewing study many years ago. The result of this study seems to have been mentioned by MMY in the Science of Being and Art of Living as an established fact, but in fact, the result was disproved. Or rather, the results were not confirmed, right? Do you have a cite for this? Doesn't sound accurate. I read that book thoroughly when it came out and there was no Autobiography of a Yogi stuff in it. It is all about integrating TM into society. Actually I meant a cite for the Targ-Puthoff results being disproved. I don't know about SBAL mentioning the study. Don't care about that one way or the other. I just recall that SBAL had a comment that long distance action or something like that was in there as if it were an established fact. The only experiment I knew of around the time the book came out were the Targ-Putoff experiments. Unfortunately I do not have a copy of SBAL with me, and perhaps I have incorrectly remembered this comment. I read it somewhere. It also might only be in the version not edited by the TMO published as a paperback, that is the very first printing before the revised edition came out. But MMY's book came out in 1963 before those experiments, so if I remembered correctly, it could not have been a reference to Targ and Puthoff's work. Maybe MMY (if I am not mistaken,that is) got it from Charlie Lutes, who was pretty esoteric in those early days.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, futur.musik futur.musik@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, futur.musik futur.musik@ wrote: ...Yagyas and intercessory prayer are different but they both seem to rely on 'action at a distance' through some kind of non-physical intervention via the human mind and experience. The philosophical conundrum here is how does something that is non-physical affect a physical entity. A physicist would currently have to rely on gravity, the strong interaction, the weak force, or the electromagnetic force to attempt to explain such a thing. Saying it is 'consciousness' does not help at present because scientists cannot agree on what consciousness is or whether it can actually do anything. Agreed, just as scientists have been able to extend the range of their senses by invention, we need finer instrumentation, and a way to filter out the grosser vibrations to be able to sense these other phenomena. By using conventional crude apparatus, there is little more to discover, imo. The current approach is based on taking physical phenomenon as a baseline and continuing to discover based on that paradigm. What is needed is an approach that assumes the presence of phenomena in higher frequency ranges (x1000), similar to the discovery of fields in the ultraviolet and infrared spectrum. I have never quite been able to grasp what 'higher frequency ranges' in relation to psychic phenomena means. It is a scientific term, but it is being applied to what? X-rays and Gamma rays are a higher frequency range, but they are entirely physical. Also, if the universe is in a real sense a unity, there is a unified field, does this not imply that the spiritual value of life and the physical value of life are one and the same? I have always taken the arguments that there are more subtle undetectable levels or higher frequencies to mean that I will never be able to detect what is being talked about, and so, I will never be able to disconfirm what is being said because it will always be beyond me, and therefore, the speaker who is discussing this with me will always be able to be right, at least in his/her own mind. This is the argumentum ad ignorantiam, an informal logical fallacy. Scientists work the opposite way. If you can demonstrate what you say, then they will accept what you say. Otherwise you have to keep working at it to come to a positive result. The absence of a result does not demonstrate there is something more that is undetected. It does not mean something might never be there, it just means you do not know. Everything we actually know is direct experience, seeing, cognition right now. Everything else is memory, inference, belief (assuming something is true without any evidence it is so), repeating what others say they think is real and so on. What we actually know for sure is not very extensive. Enlightenment, in my view, is what shows us what we know for sure, but my saying that does not make the statement true or real for someone who has not had this experience. I would say those who do have this experience probably know a lot less than they knew before they had it. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: snip There have been a number of large well-designed studies recently, such as the Templeton study, of 'intercessionary prayer', which seem a lot like yagyas. These studies failed to show any effect. Is intercessory prayer *enough* like yagyas to extrapolate the results of the prayer tests to yagyas? I can think of several differences that could render such extrapolation pretty weak. Judy, Yagyas and intercessory prayer are different but they both seem to rely on 'action at a distance' through some kind of non-physical intervention via the human mind and experience. The philosophical conundrum here is how does something that is non-physical affect a physical entity. A physicist would currently have to rely on gravity, the strong interaction, the weak force, or the electromagnetic force to attempt to explain such a thing. Saying it is 'consciousness' does not help at present because scientists cannot agree on what consciousness is or whether it can actually do anything. Psychic, long-distance phenomena have been studied for years without making a dent in the scientific community as the results have never been clear cut, and studies have been found to contain serious flaws which became evident when replication attempts failed, such as the Targ-Puthoff long distance viewing study many years ago. The result of this study seems to have been mentioned by MMY in
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, futur.musik futur.musik@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, futur.musik futur.musik@ wrote: ...Yagyas and intercessory prayer are different but they both seem to rely on 'action at a distance' through some kind of non-physical intervention via the human mind and experience. The philosophical conundrum here is how does something that is non-physical affect a physical entity. A physicist would currently have to rely on gravity, the strong interaction, the weak force, or the electromagnetic force to attempt to explain such a thing. Saying it is 'consciousness' does not help at present because scientists cannot agree on what consciousness is or whether it can actually do anything. Agreed, just as scientists have been able to extend the range of their senses by invention, we need finer instrumentation, and a way to filter out the grosser vibrations to be able to sense these other phenomena. By using conventional crude apparatus, there is little more to discover, imo. The current approach is based on taking physical phenomenon as a baseline and continuing to discover based on that paradigm. What is needed is an approach that assumes the presence of phenomena in higher frequency ranges (x1000), similar to the discovery of fields in the ultraviolet and infrared spectrum. I have never quite been able to grasp what 'higher frequency ranges' in relation to psychic phenomena means. It is a scientific term, but it is being applied to what? X-rays and Gamma rays are a higher frequency range, but they are entirely physical. ** True, but not apparent unaided by instruments. My analogy is not exact. Also, if the universe is in a real sense a unity, there is a unified field, does this not imply that the spiritual value of life and the physical value of life are one and the same? ** Yes it does, but I thought you were examining ways in which science might verify psychic phenomena. I have always taken the arguments that there are more subtle undetectable levels or higher frequencies to mean that I will never be able to detect what is being talked about, and so, I will never be able to disconfirm what is being said because it will always be beyond me, and therefore, the speaker who is discussing this with me will always be able to be right, at least in his/her own mind. ** You lost me. I am going on personal experience and attempting to figure out how such an experience could be detected by instruments. The reason I thought of higher frequencies is because that is what they look and sound like. As to how to achieve such sensitivities in such instruments is beyond me. This is the argumentum ad ignorantiam, an informal logical fallacy. Scientists work the opposite way. If you can demonstrate what you say, then they will accept what you say. Otherwise you have to keep working at it to come to a positive result. The absence of a result does not demonstrate there is something more that is undetected. It does not mean something might never be there, it just means you do not know. Everything we actually know is direct experience, seeing, cognition right now. Everything else is memory, inference, belief (assuming something is true without any evidence it is so), repeating what others say they think is real and so on. What we actually know for sure is not very extensive. Enlightenment, in my view, is what shows us what we know for sure, but my saying that does not make the statement true or real for someone who has not had this experience. I would say those who do have this experience probably know a lot less than they knew before they had it. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: snip There have been a number of large well-designed studies recently, such as the Templeton study, of 'intercessionary prayer', which seem a lot like yagyas. These studies failed to show any effect. Is intercessory prayer *enough* like yagyas to extrapolate the results of the prayer tests to yagyas? I can think of several differences that could render such extrapolation pretty weak. Judy, Yagyas and intercessory prayer are different but they both seem to rely on 'action at a distance' through some kind of non-physical intervention via the human mind and experience. The philosophical conundrum here is how does something that is non-physical affect a physical entity. A physicist would currently have to rely on gravity, the strong interaction, the weak force, or the
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
Seems saddening to see that the dome numbers with the meditator community are not working out for the tru-believers and that the Invincibility courses should be supplanted and let go this way. The potential was so great, except the Rajas could not bring themselves to figure out a reconciliation with the old meditating community. While Yogic Flying produces a powerful, generalized, non-directed surge of positivity for the general well-being of society, Yagyas create a very focused, concentrated influence of positivity designed to neutralize specific threats. Like the threats that are looming today. Om, Is this now the high-water mark for the dome numbers? The invincible programs? [LAUNCHING: THE NEW NATIONAL YAGYA PROGRAM] Maharishi has designed the most powerful system of Yagya the world has ever seen. The Maharishi National YagyaSM program is a massive application of Yagya on a national scale, specifically engineered to produce the largest possible impact on an entire nation. Focus for 2012: Maharishi Yagyas® for the Nation Join us in this great endeavor, please.Let us launch this powerful new program, may abundant good fortune smile on America, and may Maharishi's great legacy of peace and enlightenment permanently bless the human race. Jai Guru Dev
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: snip There have been a number of large well-designed studies recently, such as the Templeton study, of 'intercessionary prayer', which seem a lot like yagyas. These studies failed to show any effect. Is intercessory prayer *enough* like yagyas to extrapolate the results of the prayer tests to yagyas? I can think of several differences that could render such extrapolation pretty weak. Judy, Yagyas and intercessory prayer are different but they both seem to rely on 'action at a distance' through some kind of non-physical intervention via the human mind and experience. The philosophical conundrum here is how does something that is non-physical affect a physical entity. A physicist would currently have to rely on gravity, the strong interaction, the weak force, or the electromagnetic force to attempt to explain such a thing. Saying it is 'consciousness' does not help at present because scientists cannot agree on what consciousness is or whether it can actually do anything. Sure. It's just that the methodology of each is so different (see my comments to Curtis for one huge difference) that extrapolating from tests of one to the efficacy of the other really doesn't make much sense. Psychic, long-distance phenomena have been studied for years without making a dent in the scientific community as the results have never been clear cut, and studies have been found to contain serious flaws which became evident when replication attempts failed, such as the Targ-Puthoff long distance viewing study many years ago. The result of this study seems to have been mentioned by MMY in the Science of Being and Art of Living as an established fact, but in fact, the result was disproved. Or rather, the results were not confirmed, right? Yes, not confirmed, the null hypothesis confirmed. 'Proven' is loose usage. To my mind, it's misleading. Not that you intended to mislead; just saying. Do you have a cite for this? Marks, D.F. Kammann, R. (1980). The Psychology of the Psychic. Buffalo, New York: Prometheus Books.ISBN 0-87975-121-5 (cloth) I read this many years ago and I think there may be a second edition. It went over the Targ-Puthoff remote viewing experiments. As I recall, a replication of the experiment failed to confirm. OK. Was the replication study published in a journal, or just in the book, do you recall? Their subsequent investigation showed that the replicators had removed verbal queues that allowed the graders to match up locations with drawings. This had something to do with how the hits and misses of remote viewing experiment were categorised. When they were able to get raw data from Targ and Putoff, they found such verbal information in the data. When the same data was truly blinded, the remote viewing failed with the original experimental data. I looked up the book on Amazon (the second edition). There were a couple of positive reader reviews and a couple of negative ones. One of the negative ones had this to say: In their 'replication' of Targ's remote viewing experiments the authors selected as the viewers a few students and a housewife who 'believed themselves to be psychic to some degree.' Of course, they did not believe in the existence of the phenomena they were testing -- otherwise they might have allowed themselves to make the assumption that it might require someone who practices. If you were testing 'exceptional athletic abilities' would you select a subject who played softball once a year and 'believed he was athletic to some degree' or would you select a professional athlete? For remote viewing, you could select members of the Hawaii Remote Viewers' Guild, for example. Their intent was not to study the phenomena using an open-minded scientific approach, but to 'debunk' it - in the typical sarcastic style. I gather it wasn't the authors of the book who did the replication study, but this is an interesting point. If the replication had been attempted without verbal cues but with practiced remote viewers, would the results have been the same? (Targ and Puthoff, I believe, did use practiced remote viewers.) Do you know whether Targ and Puthoff responded substantively to the critique in the book? I'm not any more inclined to take a debunking of a study conducted by careful scientists like Targ and Puthoff at face value than I am whatever the study claims to prove (unless there's hard evidence of outright fraud). I've just seen too many instances of the original researchers responding to a debunking by pointing out sloppiness, ignorance, misinterpretation, and sometimes even outright misrepresentation of their studies on the part of the debunkers. I
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: snip There have been a number of large well-designed studies recently, such as the Templeton study, of 'intercessionary prayer', which seem a lot like yagyas. These studies failed to show any effect. Is intercessory prayer *enough* like yagyas to extrapolate the results of the prayer tests to yagyas? I can think of several differences that could render such extrapolation pretty weak. Judy, Yagyas and intercessory prayer are different but they both seem to rely on 'action at a distance' through some kind of non-physical intervention via the human mind and experience. The philosophical conundrum here is how does something that is non-physical affect a physical entity. A physicist would currently have to rely on gravity, the strong interaction, the weak force, or the electromagnetic force to attempt to explain such a thing. Saying it is 'consciousness' does not help at present because scientists cannot agree on what consciousness is or whether it can actually do anything. Sure. It's just that the methodology of each is so different (see my comments to Curtis for one huge difference) that extrapolating from tests of one to the efficacy of the other really doesn't make much sense. Psychic, long-distance phenomena have been studied for years without making a dent in the scientific community as the results have never been clear cut, and studies have been found to contain serious flaws which became evident when replication attempts failed, such as the Targ-Puthoff long distance viewing study many years ago. The result of this study seems to have been mentioned by MMY in the Science of Being and Art of Living as an established fact, but in fact, the result was disproved. Or rather, the results were not confirmed, right? Yes, not confirmed, the null hypothesis confirmed. 'Proven' is loose usage. To my mind, it's misleading. Not that you intended to mislead; just saying. Do you have a cite for this? Marks, D.F. Kammann, R. (1980). The Psychology of the Psychic. Buffalo, New York: Prometheus Books.ISBN 0-87975-121-5 (cloth) I read this many years ago and I think there may be a second edition. It went over the Targ-Puthoff remote viewing experiments. As I recall, a replication of the experiment failed to confirm. OK. Was the replication study published in a journal, or just in the book, do you recall? I only read of it in the book. I am assuming (without recollection) that references are in the book, which I no longer have. I remember the analysis of the experiment was quite detailed, and why they thought it was not a valid confirmation. One problem in this area is believers are so convinced they are correct that negative results do not faze them, and non-believers are also often exactly the same and no amount of proof will convince them either. But there are definite ways to design an experiment, and at least a few good scientists exist that do take care to try not to fool themselves; falling into the trap of one's own belief is psychologically quite difficult to surmount. It amounts to setting up an experiment in a way that attacks every point you can think of to prove what you think is wrong. Not everyone seems suited to this task. One of the most fun essays on this was Richard Feynman's 'Cargo Cult Science': http://www.physics.brocku.ca/etc/cargo_cult_science.php Their subsequent investigation showed that the replicators had removed verbal queues that allowed the graders to match up locations with drawings. This had something to do with how the hits and misses of remote viewing experiment were categorised. When they were able to get raw data from Targ and Putoff, they found such verbal information in the data. When the same data was truly blinded, the remote viewing failed with the original experimental data. I looked up the book on Amazon (the second edition). There were a couple of positive reader reviews and a couple of negative ones. One of the negative ones had this to say: In their 'replication' of Targ's remote viewing experiments the authors selected as the viewers a few students and a housewife who 'believed themselves to be psychic to some degree.' Of course, they did not believe in the existence of the phenomena they were testing -- otherwise they might have allowed themselves to make the assumption that it might require someone who practices. If you were testing 'exceptional athletic abilities' would you select a subject who played softball once a year and 'believed he was athletic to
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
Houston, we detect a Yagya gap. All area Satsangs: While Yogic Flying produces a powerful, generalized, non-directed surge of positivity for the general well-being of society, Yagyas create a very focused, concentrated influence of positivity designed to neutralize specific threats. Like the threats that are looming today. [LAUNCHING: THE NEW NATIONAL YAGYA PROGRAM] Maharishi has designed the most powerful system of Yagya the world has ever seen. The Maharishi National YagyaSM program is a massive application of Yagya on a national scale, specifically engineered to produce the largest possible impact on an entire nation. Focus for 2012: Maharishi Yagyas® for the Nation Join us in this great endeavor, please.Let us launch this powerful new program, may abundant good fortune smile on America, and may Maharishi's great legacy of peace and enlightenment permanently bless the human race. Jai Guru Dev
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
Om, Mission Control, does this mark the end of the group Yogic-Flying Invincible Programs? Houston, we detect a Yagya gap. All area Satsangs: While Yogic Flying produces a powerful, generalized, non-directed surge of positivity for the general well-being of society, Yagyas create a very focused, concentrated influence of positivity designed to neutralize specific threats. Like the threats that are looming today. [LAUNCHING: THE NEW NATIONAL YAGYA PROGRAM] Maharishi has designed the most powerful system of Yagya the world has ever seen. The Maharishi National YagyaSM program is a massive application of Yagya on a national scale, specifically engineered to produce the largest possible impact on an entire nation. Focus for 2012: Maharishi Yagyas® for the Nation Join us in this great endeavor, please.Let us launch this powerful new program, may abundant good fortune smile on America, and may Maharishi's great legacy of peace and enlightenment permanently bless the human race. Jai Guru Dev
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
In the dark of the winter night, just what is Sweden doing buying so many Maharishi National Yagyas? Om, Mission Control, does this mark the end of the group Yogic-Flying Invincible Programs? Houston, we detect a Yagya gap. All area Satsangs: While Yogic Flying produces a powerful, generalized, non-directed surge of positivity for the general well-being of society, Yagyas create a very focused, concentrated influence of positivity designed to neutralize specific threats. Like the threats that are looming today. [LAUNCHING: THE NEW NATIONAL YAGYA PROGRAM] Maharishi has designed the most powerful system of Yagya the world has ever seen. The Maharishi National YagyaSM program is a massive application of Yagya on a national scale, specifically engineered to produce the largest possible impact on an entire nation. Focus for 2012: Maharishi Yagyas® for the Nation Join us in this great endeavor, please. Let us launch this powerful new program, may abundant good fortune smile on America, and may Maharishi's great legacy of peace and enlightenment permanently bless the human race. Jai Guru Dev
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
In the dark of the winter night, just what is Sweden doing buying so many Maharishi National Yagyas? Yep, those dang hegemonic Swedes. Something is up. Keep an eye on them. Om, Mission Control, does this mark the end of the group Yogic-Flying Invincible Programs? Houston, we detect a Yagya gap. All area Satsangs: While Yogic Flying produces a powerful, generalized, non-directed surge of positivity for the general well-being of society, Yagyas create a very focused, concentrated influence of positivity designed to neutralize specific threats. Like the threats that are looming today. [LAUNCHING: THE NEW NATIONAL YAGYA PROGRAM] Maharishi has designed the most powerful system of Yagya the world has ever seen. The Maharishi National YagyaSM program is a massive application of Yagya on a national scale, specifically engineered to produce the largest possible impact on an entire nation. Focus for 2012: Maharishi Yagyas® for the Nation Join us in this great endeavor, please. Let us launch this powerful new program, may abundant good fortune smile on America, and may Maharishi's great legacy of peace and enlightenment permanently bless the human race. Jai Guru Dev
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
Germany right now is way ahead of the Brits and Yanks in National Yagyas. In the dark of the winter night, just what is Sweden doing buying so many Maharishi National Yagyas? Yep, those dang hegemonic Swedes. Something is up. Keep an eye on them. Om, Mission Control, does this mark the end of the group Yogic-Flying Invincible Programs? Houston, we detect a Yagya gap. All area Satsangs: While Yogic Flying produces a powerful, generalized, non-directed surge of positivity for the general well-being of society, Yagyas create a very focused, concentrated influence of positivity designed to neutralize specific threats. Like the threats that are looming today. [LAUNCHING: THE NEW NATIONAL YAGYA PROGRAM] Maharishi has designed the most powerful system of Yagya the world has ever seen. The Maharishi National YagyaSM program is a massive application of Yagya on a national scale, specifically engineered to produce the largest possible impact on an entire nation. Focus for 2012: Maharishi Yagyas® for the Nation Join us in this great endeavor, please. Let us launch this powerful new program, may abundant good fortune smile on America, and may Maharishi's great legacy of peace and enlightenment permanently bless the human race. Jai Guru Dev
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
Winston Churchill counseled for the Brits to stick with the Americans, there's a sound place now in this new and shifting world order for an old alliance of National Yagya. East against west. Germany right now is way ahead of the Brits and Yanks in National Yagyas. In the dark of the winter night, just what is Sweden doing buying so many Maharishi National Yagyas? Yep, those dang hegemonic Swedes. Something is up. Keep an eye on them. Om, Mission Control, does this mark the end of the group Yogic-Flying Invincible Programs? Houston, we detect a Yagya gap. All area Satsangs: While Yogic Flying produces a powerful, generalized, non-directed surge of positivity for the general well-being of society, Yagyas create a very focused, concentrated influence of positivity designed to neutralize specific threats. Like the threats that are looming today. [LAUNCHING: THE NEW NATIONAL YAGYA PROGRAM] Maharishi has designed the most powerful system of Yagya the world has ever seen. The Maharishi National YagyaSM program is a massive application of Yagya on a national scale, specifically engineered to produce the largest possible impact on an entire nation. Focus for 2012: Maharishi Yagyas® for the Nation Join us in this great endeavor, please. Let us launch this powerful new program, may abundant good fortune smile on America, and may Maharishi's great legacy of peace and enlightenment permanently bless the human race. Jai Guru Dev
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
And with this announcement we enter the realm of the testable. Let's break it down: While Yogic Flying produces a powerful, generalized, non-directed surge of positivity for the general well-being of society, Actually sidhis themselves included many testable behaviors. But that didn't really pan out too well did it? No one was able to produce something specific that would prove the theory. It could have happened, Maharishi predicted it would happen, but it did not happen. So they changed the claim to something they could paint a circle around and claim victory, the panacea snake oil of generalized non-directed surge (I think I saw that flick when it came out on VHS, It stars Ginger Lynn who claimed to have a detachable jaw and in the third scene with the pizza delivery guy made me a believer. Now that's what you call a convincing demo of a claim!) So they could have given a demo that would have changed the world forever with the sidhis. The finding lost objects one that Larry Domash bragged about doing would have been enough, and we would have given Jonathan Shear's claim of understanding a squirrel a polite pass. But they didn't, which in the rest of the world is known as, they couldn't. They got off the hook by changing the claim to be so broad that, hey look a squirrel worked for movement believers. It did not impress the world at large who pretty much unanimously responded to all these claims with Yeah right, hey do you want to go grab a coffee? But happy days are here again folks, if the movement will step up they have a chance once again to redeem themselves and convert the world. All that is needed is for them to produce exactly what they are claiming to. And before you are too quick to say oh that Curtis is being a butthole again think about this for a minute. This is a chance for them to prove to the world that their claims are true, so why are they not doing it in a form that the rest of us could appreciate? The fulfillment of the world plan is right there in front of them, isn't it? Am I being unreasonable for asking them for a convincing demo? When did TM become the a branch of the Evangelical Church of Jesus the Redeemer? Why is faith necessary when a demo is possible? Yagyas create a very focused, concentrated influence of positivity designed to neutralize specific threats. Like the threats that are looming today. All they have to do is pick 3 things. 3 things that need yagya-ing. 3 things that are broken or not enough of something or too much of something we don't want. Why is it improper in principle to insist that they first put their money where their mouth is with a decent demo of this effect that we can all see if in fact it is specific? Why aren't they the ones insisting on one if they are so sure of this that they will accept people's money for them? Hell, they deserve to put down a wager with all of us skeptics. If they could do X then it is reasonable for them to ask us to pony up and pay for the next round, right? So I challenge any believers in yagyas here to come up with 3 things that we could verify that Yagyas could fix. I believe it deals with the issue of the simultaneity not equaling causation problem by asking for 3. Wouldn't that do it? And if it isn't scientifically airtight (also an anatomically enlightening scene in the above mentioned movie) wouldn't it be a good faith demo worthy of more research? Since the whole TM thing is not supposed to be faith based why is it out of line to expect that they do what they claim first? But they wont, and I have a pretty good idea of why. I saw this routine before with the sidhis. Nobody ever guesses which shell the pea is under in this game. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: All area Satsangs: While Yogic Flying produces a powerful, generalized, non-directed surge of positivity for the general well-being of society, Yagyas create a very focused, concentrated influence of positivity designed to neutralize specific threats. Like the threats that are looming today. [LAUNCHING: THE NEW NATIONAL YAGYA PROGRAM] Maharishi has designed the most powerful system of Yagya the world has ever seen. The Maharishi National YagyaSM program is a massive application of Yagya on a national scale, specifically engineered to produce the largest possible impact on an entire nation. Focus for 2012: Maharishi Yagyas® for the Nation Join us in this great endeavor, please.Let us launch this powerful new program, may abundant good fortune smile on America, and may Maharishi's great legacy of peace and enlightenment permanently bless the human race. Jai Guru Dev
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
Although your arguments for scientific validation are valid, I am not sure it makes a lot of difference whether the sutras and yagyas are provable scientifically. While I can see Maharishi's attempts to bridge science and yoga as necessary to bring his message to the West initially, now that so many teachers and methods are here, it has become more of a spiritual cafeteria in terms of what each of us decides benefits us as a practice, vs. which technique can be proved rigorously by science. I remember my starting TM had nothing to do with science. I had already been exposed to Hindu, Buddhist and Christian religions and although I got a lot out of each one, the practical and solitary nature of the TM practice eventually won out. I am not arguing for TM, but rather to show that the science is nice to have but not a must have when deciding which technique to adopt as a regular practice. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@... wrote: And with this announcement we enter the realm of the testable. Let's break it down: While Yogic Flying produces a powerful, generalized, non-directed surge of positivity for the general well-being of society, Actually sidhis themselves included many testable behaviors. But that didn't really pan out too well did it? No one was able to produce something specific that would prove the theory. It could have happened, Maharishi predicted it would happen, but it did not happen. So they changed the claim to something they could paint a circle around and claim victory, the panacea snake oil of generalized non-directed surge (I think I saw that flick when it came out on VHS, It stars Ginger Lynn who claimed to have a detachable jaw and in the third scene with the pizza delivery guy made me a believer. Now that's what you call a convincing demo of a claim!) So they could have given a demo that would have changed the world forever with the sidhis. The finding lost objects one that Larry Domash bragged about doing would have been enough, and we would have given Jonathan Shear's claim of understanding a squirrel a polite pass. But they didn't, which in the rest of the world is known as, they couldn't. They got off the hook by changing the claim to be so broad that, hey look a squirrel worked for movement believers. It did not impress the world at large who pretty much unanimously responded to all these claims with Yeah right, hey do you want to go grab a coffee? But happy days are here again folks, if the movement will step up they have a chance once again to redeem themselves and convert the world. All that is needed is for them to produce exactly what they are claiming to. And before you are too quick to say oh that Curtis is being a butthole again think about this for a minute. This is a chance for them to prove to the world that their claims are true, so why are they not doing it in a form that the rest of us could appreciate? The fulfillment of the world plan is right there in front of them, isn't it? Am I being unreasonable for asking them for a convincing demo? When did TM become the a branch of the Evangelical Church of Jesus the Redeemer? Why is faith necessary when a demo is possible? Yagyas create a very focused, concentrated influence of positivity designed to neutralize specific threats. Like the threats that are looming today. All they have to do is pick 3 things. 3 things that need yagya-ing. 3 things that are broken or not enough of something or too much of something we don't want. Why is it improper in principle to insist that they first put their money where their mouth is with a decent demo of this effect that we can all see if in fact it is specific? Why aren't they the ones insisting on one if they are so sure of this that they will accept people's money for them? Hell, they deserve to put down a wager with all of us skeptics. If they could do X then it is reasonable for them to ask us to pony up and pay for the next round, right? So I challenge any believers in yagyas here to come up with 3 things that we could verify that Yagyas could fix. I believe it deals with the issue of the simultaneity not equaling causation problem by asking for 3. Wouldn't that do it? And if it isn't scientifically airtight (also an anatomically enlightening scene in the above mentioned movie) wouldn't it be a good faith demo worthy of more research? Since the whole TM thing is not supposed to be faith based why is it out of line to expect that they do what they claim first? But they wont, and I have a pretty good idea of why. I saw this routine before with the sidhis. Nobody ever guesses which shell the pea is under in this game. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: All area Satsangs: While Yogic Flying produces a powerful,
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
Good stuff Buck. The most powerful way to help the family, community, town, city, state and country is to establish oneself in liberation. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: All area Satsangs: While Yogic Flying produces a powerful, generalized, non-directed surge of positivity for the general well-being of society, Yagyas create a very focused, concentrated influence of positivity designed to neutralize specific threats. Like the threats that are looming today. [LAUNCHING: THE NEW NATIONAL YAGYA PROGRAM] Maharishi has designed the most powerful system of Yagya the world has ever seen. The Maharishi National YagyaSM program is a massive application of Yagya on a national scale, specifically engineered to produce the largest possible impact on an entire nation. Focus for 2012: Maharishi Yagyas® for the Nation Join us in this great endeavor, please.Let us launch this powerful new program, may abundant good fortune smile on America, and may Maharishi's great legacy of peace and enlightenment permanently bless the human race. Jai Guru Dev
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
Although I did use some scientific terms because I believe that this kind of claim could meet such a threshold in principle, it makes just as much sense through the perspective in this sentence: practical and solitary nature of the TM practice eventually won out. You felt results so you continued, right? Not scientific but practical. If we lower the bar below a scientific threshold and say this claim could be practically demonstrated so that people of good faith could appreciate that it was true wouldn't we be back to the need for demonstration? This is not a claim that you will feel better, it is about the world so we can share in its evidence together, in a strictly aw shucks ain't that a sight Ma kind of way. You are making a case for apriori faith in the system which is fine for believers. But since this is in principle testable, even if we accept that for people who already believe it is not necessary,wouldn't the message go out to more people just as it did for TM? Even though it wasn't the science rap that drew you in, it was the thing that made it rise above other spiritual practices in popularity. So I get that you don't find this necessary, what I am challenging is why isn't this a priority in an organization whose purpose is to spread this knowledge and preserve Maharishi's teaching. So on an individual level, sure I agree. But this is a claim about the world and it will involve cash from donors right? There are plenty of ways that we use to distinguish fact from fantasy in life. None of them that I know of are against such a demonstration even if it doesn't meet true scientific standards. They say they can do this wonderful thing, show us as artists who want to appreciate its glory. Is that a better fit? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, futur.musik futur.musik@... wrote: Although your arguments for scientific validation are valid, I am not sure it makes a lot of difference whether the sutras and yagyas are provable scientifically. While I can see Maharishi's attempts to bridge science and yoga as necessary to bring his message to the West initially, now that so many teachers and methods are here, it has become more of a spiritual cafeteria in terms of what each of us decides benefits us as a practice, vs. which technique can be proved rigorously by science. I remember my starting TM had nothing to do with science. I had already been exposed to Hindu, Buddhist and Christian religions and although I got a lot out of each one, the practical and solitary nature of the TM practice eventually won out. I am not arguing for TM, but rather to show that the science is nice to have but not a must have when deciding which technique to adopt as a regular practice. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: And with this announcement we enter the realm of the testable. Let's break it down: While Yogic Flying produces a powerful, generalized, non-directed surge of positivity for the general well-being of society, Actually sidhis themselves included many testable behaviors. But that didn't really pan out too well did it? No one was able to produce something specific that would prove the theory. It could have happened, Maharishi predicted it would happen, but it did not happen. So they changed the claim to something they could paint a circle around and claim victory, the panacea snake oil of generalized non-directed surge (I think I saw that flick when it came out on VHS, It stars Ginger Lynn who claimed to have a detachable jaw and in the third scene with the pizza delivery guy made me a believer. Now that's what you call a convincing demo of a claim!) So they could have given a demo that would have changed the world forever with the sidhis. The finding lost objects one that Larry Domash bragged about doing would have been enough, and we would have given Jonathan Shear's claim of understanding a squirrel a polite pass. But they didn't, which in the rest of the world is known as, they couldn't. They got off the hook by changing the claim to be so broad that, hey look a squirrel worked for movement believers. It did not impress the world at large who pretty much unanimously responded to all these claims with Yeah right, hey do you want to go grab a coffee? But happy days are here again folks, if the movement will step up they have a chance once again to redeem themselves and convert the world. All that is needed is for them to produce exactly what they are claiming to. And before you are too quick to say oh that Curtis is being a butthole again think about this for a minute. This is a chance for them to prove to the world that their claims are true, so why are they not doing it in a form that the rest of us could appreciate? The fulfillment of the world plan is right there in
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
Yeah, I can see the marketing problem it presents for the TMO if they discount scientific or demonstrable results. Since the TMO has always set scientific validity as a key objective, wrt marketing and fundraising, it remains an ongoing tussle for the TMO between putting enough scientific evidence out there to bolster the claims it makes and getting pinned down with those attempts, especially wrt things like sidhis and yagyas. Maybe one day the TMO will schism into two sects, the rationalists and the bhaktis, each will seize a Dome, and its on! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@... wrote: Although I did use some scientific terms because I believe that this kind of claim could meet such a threshold in principle, it makes just as much sense through the perspective in this sentence: practical and solitary nature of the TM practice eventually won out. You felt results so you continued, right? Not scientific but practical. If we lower the bar below a scientific threshold and say this claim could be practically demonstrated so that people of good faith could appreciate that it was true wouldn't we be back to the need for demonstration? This is not a claim that you will feel better, it is about the world so we can share in its evidence together, in a strictly aw shucks ain't that a sight Ma kind of way. You are making a case for apriori faith in the system which is fine for believers. But since this is in principle testable, even if we accept that for people who already believe it is not necessary,wouldn't the message go out to more people just as it did for TM? Even though it wasn't the science rap that drew you in, it was the thing that made it rise above other spiritual practices in popularity. So I get that you don't find this necessary, what I am challenging is why isn't this a priority in an organization whose purpose is to spread this knowledge and preserve Maharishi's teaching. So on an individual level, sure I agree. But this is a claim about the world and it will involve cash from donors right? There are plenty of ways that we use to distinguish fact from fantasy in life. None of them that I know of are against such a demonstration even if it doesn't meet true scientific standards. They say they can do this wonderful thing, show us as artists who want to appreciate its glory. Is that a better fit? Couldn't hurt. The TMO has always tried to have this rigidly scientific demeanor to justify its programs --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, futur.musik futur.musik@ wrote: Although your arguments for scientific validation are valid, I am not sure it makes a lot of difference whether the sutras and yagyas are provable scientifically. While I can see Maharishi's attempts to bridge science and yoga as necessary to bring his message to the West initially, now that so many teachers and methods are here, it has become more of a spiritual cafeteria in terms of what each of us decides benefits us as a practice, vs. which technique can be proved rigorously by science. I remember my starting TM had nothing to do with science. I had already been exposed to Hindu, Buddhist and Christian religions and although I got a lot out of each one, the practical and solitary nature of the TM practice eventually won out. I am not arguing for TM, but rather to show that the science is nice to have but not a must have when deciding which technique to adopt as a regular practice. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: And with this announcement we enter the realm of the testable. Let's break it down: While Yogic Flying produces a powerful, generalized, non-directed surge of positivity for the general well-being of society, Actually sidhis themselves included many testable behaviors. But that didn't really pan out too well did it? No one was able to produce something specific that would prove the theory. It could have happened, Maharishi predicted it would happen, but it did not happen. So they changed the claim to something they could paint a circle around and claim victory, the panacea snake oil of generalized non-directed surge (I think I saw that flick when it came out on VHS, It stars Ginger Lynn who claimed to have a detachable jaw and in the third scene with the pizza delivery guy made me a believer. Now that's what you call a convincing demo of a claim!) So they could have given a demo that would have changed the world forever with the sidhis. The finding lost objects one that Larry Domash bragged about doing would have been enough, and we would have given Jonathan Shear's claim of understanding a squirrel a polite pass. But they didn't, which in the rest of the world is known as, they couldn't. They
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
I thought your confidence in TM was in the practical results you have received not devotion. You have been the poster child here for not just believing in TM but for people to practice it long enough that they get the results you have, right? So it is not hoisting the movement on its own petard of scientific marketing hype to want them to demonstrate yagyas to whatever practical level is the correlate of personal benefits of TM is it? But if you are saying that people who already believe in TM results will just take this at face value as fact and never need more than John Hegelin waving a paper around saying it has been proven or that the Vedic tradition claims it is true, and they are the most likely donors... then we agree. The rest of the world is really not invited to this party. But it could be and why it isn't should be a concern for anyone who deeply believes that this knowledge needs to spread beyond a few thousand people who still have earth shoes somewhere in the back of their closets. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, futur.musik futur.musik@... wrote: Yeah, I can see the marketing problem it presents for the TMO if they discount scientific or demonstrable results. Since the TMO has always set scientific validity as a key objective, wrt marketing and fundraising, it remains an ongoing tussle for the TMO between putting enough scientific evidence out there to bolster the claims it makes and getting pinned down with those attempts, especially wrt things like sidhis and yagyas. Maybe one day the TMO will schism into two sects, the rationalists and the bhaktis, each will seize a Dome, and its on! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Although I did use some scientific terms because I believe that this kind of claim could meet such a threshold in principle, it makes just as much sense through the perspective in this sentence: practical and solitary nature of the TM practice eventually won out. You felt results so you continued, right? Not scientific but practical. If we lower the bar below a scientific threshold and say this claim could be practically demonstrated so that people of good faith could appreciate that it was true wouldn't we be back to the need for demonstration? This is not a claim that you will feel better, it is about the world so we can share in its evidence together, in a strictly aw shucks ain't that a sight Ma kind of way. You are making a case for apriori faith in the system which is fine for believers. But since this is in principle testable, even if we accept that for people who already believe it is not necessary,wouldn't the message go out to more people just as it did for TM? Even though it wasn't the science rap that drew you in, it was the thing that made it rise above other spiritual practices in popularity. So I get that you don't find this necessary, what I am challenging is why isn't this a priority in an organization whose purpose is to spread this knowledge and preserve Maharishi's teaching. So on an individual level, sure I agree. But this is a claim about the world and it will involve cash from donors right? There are plenty of ways that we use to distinguish fact from fantasy in life. None of them that I know of are against such a demonstration even if it doesn't meet true scientific standards. They say they can do this wonderful thing, show us as artists who want to appreciate its glory. Is that a better fit? Couldn't hurt. The TMO has always tried to have this rigidly scientific demeanor to justify its programs --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, futur.musik futur.musik@ wrote: Although your arguments for scientific validation are valid, I am not sure it makes a lot of difference whether the sutras and yagyas are provable scientifically. While I can see Maharishi's attempts to bridge science and yoga as necessary to bring his message to the West initially, now that so many teachers and methods are here, it has become more of a spiritual cafeteria in terms of what each of us decides benefits us as a practice, vs. which technique can be proved rigorously by science. I remember my starting TM had nothing to do with science. I had already been exposed to Hindu, Buddhist and Christian religions and although I got a lot out of each one, the practical and solitary nature of the TM practice eventually won out. I am not arguing for TM, but rather to show that the science is nice to have but not a must have when deciding which technique to adopt as a regular practice. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: And with this announcement we enter the realm of the testable. Let's break it down: While Yogic Flying
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@... wrote: Although I did use some scientific terms because I believe that this kind of claim could meet such a threshold in principle, it makes just as much sense through the perspective in this sentence: practical and solitary nature of the TM practice eventually won out. You felt results so you continued, right? Not scientific but practical. If we lower the bar below a scientific threshold and say this claim could be practically demonstrated so that people of good faith could appreciate that it was true wouldn't we be back to the need for demonstration? This is not a claim that you will feel better, it is about the world so we can share in its evidence together, in a strictly aw shucks ain't that a sight Ma kind of way. You are making a case for apriori faith in the system which is fine for believers. But since this is in principle testable, even if we accept that for people who already believe it is not necessary,wouldn't the message go out to more people just as it did for TM? Even though it wasn't the science rap that drew you in, it was the thing that made it rise above other spiritual practices in popularity. So I get that you don't find this necessary, what I am challenging is why isn't this a priority in an organization whose purpose is to spread this knowledge and preserve Maharishi's teaching. So on an individual level, sure I agree. But this is a claim about the world and it will involve cash from donors right? There are plenty of ways that we use to distinguish fact from fantasy in life. None of them that I know of are against such a demonstration even if it doesn't meet true scientific standards. They say they can do this wonderful thing, show us as artists who want to appreciate its glory. Is that a better fit? There have been a number of large well-designed studies recently, such as the Templeton study, of 'intercessionary prayer', which seem a lot like yagyas. These studies failed to show any effect. Psychic, long-distance phenomena have been studied for years without making a dent in the scientific community as the results have never been clear cut, and studies have been found to contain serious flaws which became evident when replication attempts failed, such as the Targ-Puthoff long distance viewing study many years ago. The result of this study seems to have been mentioned by MMY in the Science of Being and Art of Living as an established fact, but in fact, the result was disproved. The TMO is only interested in favourable positive results, and this is not the proper attitude when conducting a scientific study where one is trying to find a way to conclusively show that there is a difference between the hypothesised effect and the null hypothesis. In a scientific study it does not matter on a knowledge basis whether the result agrees or disagrees with you. It might affect a career if a study fails, but that is not what is being sought. Finding out stuff like this can be easy or difficult. It would be fairly easy to design a study investigating how much a guitar has to be out of tune such that everyone can recognise that it is in fact out of tune. Finding out if the Higgs boson exists is much more difficult. Thousand of researchers and engineers are required just to isolate a small aspect of the search as to whether it exists at a specfic energy level. Finding out if yagyas work would be difficult but not imposssible as similar good quality experiments with prayer have already been done. I would not expect the movement to conduct such an experiment, and even if it did, if the result was negative, I doubt it would ever be announced for in a population where belief trumps reality, this is what happens. I have had yagyas performed on my behalf, and I have never noticed anything as a result, so I am naturally sceptical of them. Yagyas seem to be satisfactory as a wallet vacuum, but their reality is very tenuous in my mind. they remind me of Papal indulgences. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, futur.musik futur.musik@ wrote: Although your arguments for scientific validation are valid, I am not sure it makes a lot of difference whether the sutras and yagyas are provable scientifically. While I can see Maharishi's attempts to bridge science and yoga as necessary to bring his message to the West initially, now that so many teachers and methods are here, it has become more of a spiritual cafeteria in terms of what each of us decides benefits us as a practice, vs. which technique can be proved rigorously by science. I remember my starting TM had nothing to do with science. I had already been exposed to Hindu, Buddhist and Christian religions and although I got a lot out of each one, the practical and solitary nature of the TM practice eventually won out. I am not arguing
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
Maybe one day the TMO will schism into two sects, the rationalists and the bhaktis, each will seize a Dome, and its on! Each would teach the same basic technique, same puja, only the atmosphere would be quite different for each sect at initiation time: Rationalist TM: The TM Center is in an uber modern building in the city, long thin windows, high ceilings, industrial chic, painted a soft grey outside. You knock at the door and are instructed by speaker: Jai Guru Dev. Please enter your code. You check your smartphone, find the file, hold the graphic up to the reader and the door clicks open. Inside it is spacious, and spare, a faint smell of sandalwood and floor wax. You take a seat on the micro-suede and chrome Scandinavian couch. There is a low black granite coffee table in front of you, TMO publications arranged precisely to the right, with two small aluminum signs like name plates to the left, one labeled Fruit and the other, Flowers, both in a san serif font. You place your offerings in the appropriate areas on the table, and sit back to wait. You check you watch and see that you are actually right on time. Just then a door opens. You look left and see the teachers, Gunter and Lisa, both blond, tall, German, impeccably groomed, wearing single piece grey jumpsuits, walking towards you. They are both smiling when they stop in front of you (did Gunter click his heels together just then?). Jai Guru Dev!! They say in unison... Bhakti TM: The TM Center resides in a leafy tree filled neighborhood of big lawns and comfortable houses, with plenty of parking. You park and begin walking up the walkway towards a two story white cottage with red shutters. There is a sign near the door, Namaste! Come On In!. You step inside the brightly lit foyer and instantly the aroma of fresh chocolate chip cookies hits your nostrils. You start to get hungry until the strong scent of rose incense also becomes apparent, almost overpowering. Someone is playing Layla and singing to it sporadically somewhere in the back of the house. You look into the living room which has colored sheer curtains at the windows and some brightly covered throws on the overstuffed country furniture. Someone has put up two pictures on the wall, one is Maharishi and next to him Jimi Hendrix. Dude! The voice comes from around the corner. You walk through the doorway, over to a middle aged guy, trying for a ponytail with what is left, wearing overalls and a grateful dead t-shirt. Name's Krishna Patterson, and you are here to learn TM? Would you like a cookie? Just baked! I've had six! You begin to take one while at the same time noticing that Krishna is really buzzing from his sugar high. Oh and here's `teach'!. A short woman in a sari and a garland of flowers appears. Hi, I am Saraswati Rutkowski, glad to meet you! Let's get started! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, futur.musik futur.musik@... wrote: Yeah, I can see the marketing problem it presents for the TMO if they discount scientific or demonstrable results. Since the TMO has always set scientific validity as a key objective, wrt marketing and fundraising, it remains an ongoing tussle for the TMO between putting enough scientific evidence out there to bolster the claims it makes and getting pinned down with those attempts, especially wrt things like sidhis and yagyas. Maybe one day the TMO will schism into two sects, the rationalists and the bhaktis, each will seize a Dome, and its on! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Although I did use some scientific terms because I believe that this kind of claim could meet such a threshold in principle, it makes just as much sense through the perspective in this sentence: practical and solitary nature of the TM practice eventually won out. You felt results so you continued, right? Not scientific but practical. If we lower the bar below a scientific threshold and say this claim could be practically demonstrated so that people of good faith could appreciate that it was true wouldn't we be back to the need for demonstration? This is not a claim that you will feel better, it is about the world so we can share in its evidence together, in a strictly aw shucks ain't that a sight Ma kind of way. You are making a case for apriori faith in the system which is fine for believers. But since this is in principle testable, even if we accept that for people who already believe it is not necessary,wouldn't the message go out to more people just as it did for TM? Even though it wasn't the science rap that drew you in, it was the thing that made it rise above other spiritual practices in popularity. So I get that you don't find this necessary, what I am challenging is why isn't this a priority in an organization whose purpose is to spread this knowledge and preserve Maharishi's
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@... wrote: I thought your confidence in TM was in the practical results you have received not devotion. You have been the poster child here for not just believing in TM but for people to practice it long enough that they get the results you have, right? **I think it can be a useful technique. That's as far as I am going. So it is not hoisting the movement on its own petard of scientific marketing hype to want them to demonstrate yagyas to whatever practical level is the correlate of personal benefits of TM is it? **Absolutely a valid exercise! I hope you aren't assuming I am sticking up for the TMO right now... But if you are saying that people who already believe in TM results will just take this at face value as fact and never need more than John Hegelin waving a paper around saying it has been proven or that the Vedic tradition claims it is true, and they are the most likely donors... then we agree. The rest of the world is really not invited to this party. But it could be and why it isn't should be a concern for anyone who deeply believes that this knowledge needs to spread beyond a few thousand people who still have earth shoes somewhere in the back of their closets. **I'm not willing to take out a should on this one. The TMO never has been a marketing powerhouse. What publicity they get seems mostly due to celebrities. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, futur.musik futur.musik@ wrote: Yeah, I can see the marketing problem it presents for the TMO if they discount scientific or demonstrable results. Since the TMO has always set scientific validity as a key objective, wrt marketing and fundraising, it remains an ongoing tussle for the TMO between putting enough scientific evidence out there to bolster the claims it makes and getting pinned down with those attempts, especially wrt things like sidhis and yagyas. Maybe one day the TMO will schism into two sects, the rationalists and the bhaktis, each will seize a Dome, and its on! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Although I did use some scientific terms because I believe that this kind of claim could meet such a threshold in principle, it makes just as much sense through the perspective in this sentence: practical and solitary nature of the TM practice eventually won out. You felt results so you continued, right? Not scientific but practical. If we lower the bar below a scientific threshold and say this claim could be practically demonstrated so that people of good faith could appreciate that it was true wouldn't we be back to the need for demonstration? This is not a claim that you will feel better, it is about the world so we can share in its evidence together, in a strictly aw shucks ain't that a sight Ma kind of way. You are making a case for apriori faith in the system which is fine for believers. But since this is in principle testable, even if we accept that for people who already believe it is not necessary,wouldn't the message go out to more people just as it did for TM? Even though it wasn't the science rap that drew you in, it was the thing that made it rise above other spiritual practices in popularity. So I get that you don't find this necessary, what I am challenging is why isn't this a priority in an organization whose purpose is to spread this knowledge and preserve Maharishi's teaching. So on an individual level, sure I agree. But this is a claim about the world and it will involve cash from donors right? There are plenty of ways that we use to distinguish fact from fantasy in life. None of them that I know of are against such a demonstration even if it doesn't meet true scientific standards. They say they can do this wonderful thing, show us as artists who want to appreciate its glory. Is that a better fit? Couldn't hurt. The TMO has always tried to have this rigidly scientific demeanor to justify its programs --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, futur.musik futur.musik@ wrote: Although your arguments for scientific validation are valid, I am not sure it makes a lot of difference whether the sutras and yagyas are provable scientifically. While I can see Maharishi's attempts to bridge science and yoga as necessary to bring his message to the West initially, now that so many teachers and methods are here, it has become more of a spiritual cafeteria in terms of what each of us decides benefits us as a practice, vs. which technique can be proved rigorously by science. I remember my starting TM had nothing to do with science. I had already been exposed to Hindu, Buddhist and Christian religions
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
I thought your confidence in TM was in the practical results you have received not devotion. You have been the poster child here for not just believing in TM but for people to practice it long enough that they get the results you have, right? Hi Curtis, Just to clarify, it is hard for me to advocate anything about TM, since I stopped the practice nearly a year ago. Stopping felt just as natural as starting did. Yes, I think it is useful. I don't know anyone other than those here on FFL who does TM. None of my friends, family, or coworkers practice it.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, futur.musik futur.musik@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: I thought your confidence in TM was in the practical results you have received not devotion. You have been the poster child here for not just believing in TM but for people to practice it long enough that they get the results you have, right? **I think it can be a useful technique. That's as far as I am going. **Absolutely a valid exercise! I hope you aren't assuming I am sticking up for the TMO right now... **I'm not willing to take out a should on this one. The TMO never has been a marketing powerhouse. What publicity they get seems mostly due to celebrities. When tens of thousands of children learn TM in South American through DLF it's hardly because David Lynch is a celebrity. They probably never even heard of him before starting the practise. Do see the trailer, very moving. http://dlf.tv/2010/disposable-ones/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: On 01/15/2012 04:58 AM, Buck wrote: All area Satsangs: While Yogic Flying produces a powerful, generalized, non-directed surge of positivity for the general well-being of society, Yagyas create a very focused, concentrated influence of positivity designed to neutralize specific threats. Like the threats that are looming today. [LAUNCHING: THE NEW NATIONAL YAGYA PROGRAM] Maharishi has designed the most powerful system of Yagya the world has ever seen. The Maharishi National YagyaSM program is a massive application of Yagya on a national scale, specifically engineered to produce the largest possible impact on an entire nation. Focus for 2012: Maharishi Yagyas® for the Nation Join us in this great endeavor, please.Let us launch this powerful new program, may abundant good fortune smile on America, and may Maharishi's great legacy of peace and enlightenment permanently bless the human race. Jai Guru Dev So what would the actual results of the a national yagya be? It should result in reducing the rakshasa big corporations to extinction and returning economic equality to the people of the USA. Of course you don't actually need a yagya to do that, just a revolution. OTOH, I'm noting that may not even be needed as the rakshasa big corporations are beginning to collapse under their own weight and bad karma. Remember that a bunch of yogic flyers went to Iran back in the late 1970s and we know what happened there. Yes I was there and know exactly what happened. Nothing. Nada. No bloodshed, even though all the embassies had closed down and all personell had left in fear of a bloody revolution. The whole world waited for something nasty and bloody. Instead the Shah quietly slipped out of Iran and later died of cancer. Much like Marcos did when we were in Manilla, slipping quietly out, later dying of cancer. Big success for the TMO, but difficult to understand for souls dictated by their intelligence, they simply do not understand the connection. Perhaps Maharishi was right, perhaps it will take 400 years before people understand what he did. Did the yogic flying troupe spur it on?
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote: Big success for the TMO, but difficult to understand for souls dictated by their intelligence, they simply do not understand the connection. I couldn't agree more, intelligence is the biggest block to buying into the movement's claims. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: On 01/15/2012 04:58 AM, Buck wrote: All area Satsangs: While Yogic Flying produces a powerful, generalized, non-directed surge of positivity for the general well-being of society, Yagyas create a very focused, concentrated influence of positivity designed to neutralize specific threats. Like the threats that are looming today. [LAUNCHING: THE NEW NATIONAL YAGYA PROGRAM] Maharishi has designed the most powerful system of Yagya the world has ever seen. The Maharishi National YagyaSM program is a massive application of Yagya on a national scale, specifically engineered to produce the largest possible impact on an entire nation. Focus for 2012: Maharishi Yagyas® for the Nation Join us in this great endeavor, please.Let us launch this powerful new program, may abundant good fortune smile on America, and may Maharishi's great legacy of peace and enlightenment permanently bless the human race. Jai Guru Dev So what would the actual results of the a national yagya be? It should result in reducing the rakshasa big corporations to extinction and returning economic equality to the people of the USA. Of course you don't actually need a yagya to do that, just a revolution. OTOH, I'm noting that may not even be needed as the rakshasa big corporations are beginning to collapse under their own weight and bad karma. Remember that a bunch of yogic flyers went to Iran back in the late 1970s and we know what happened there. Yes I was there and know exactly what happened. Nothing. Nada. No bloodshed, even though all the embassies had closed down and all personell had left in fear of a bloody revolution. The whole world waited for something nasty and bloody. Instead the Shah quietly slipped out of Iran and later died of cancer. Much like Marcos did when we were in Manilla, slipping quietly out, later dying of cancer. Big success for the TMO, but difficult to understand for souls dictated by their intelligence, they simply do not understand the connection. Perhaps Maharishi was right, perhaps it will take 400 years before people understand what he did. Did the yogic flying troupe spur it on?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
On 01/15/2012 11:02 AM, nablusoss1008 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitunoozguru@... wrote: On 01/15/2012 04:58 AM, Buck wrote: All area Satsangs: While Yogic Flying produces a powerful, generalized, non-directed surge of positivity for the general well-being of society, Yagyas create a very focused, concentrated influence of positivity designed to neutralize specific threats. Like the threats that are looming today. [LAUNCHING: THE NEW NATIONAL YAGYA PROGRAM] Maharishi has designed the most powerful system of Yagya the world has ever seen. The Maharishi National YagyaSM program is a massive application of Yagya on a national scale, specifically engineered to produce the largest possible impact on an entire nation. Focus for 2012: Maharishi Yagyas® for the Nation Join us in this great endeavor, please.Let us launch this powerful new program, may abundant good fortune smile on America, and may Maharishi's great legacy of peace and enlightenment permanently bless the human race. Jai Guru Dev So what would the actual results of the a national yagya be? It should result in reducing the rakshasa big corporations to extinction and returning economic equality to the people of the USA. Of course you don't actually need a yagya to do that, just a revolution. OTOH, I'm noting that may not even be needed as the rakshasa big corporations are beginning to collapse under their own weight and bad karma. Remember that a bunch of yogic flyers went to Iran back in the late 1970s and we know what happened there. Yes I was there and know exactly what happened. Nothing. Nada. No bloodshed, even though all the embassies had closed down and all personell had left in fear of a bloody revolution. The whole world waited for something nasty and bloody. Instead the Shah quietly slipped out of Iran and later died of cancer. Much like Marcos did when we were in Manilla, slipping quietly out, later dying of cancer. And this wouldn't have happened anyway with out the butt bouncers? After there was a student revolution going on that had been fomenting ever since the US installed the Shah as a puppet leader. Same with the Philippines. A little knowledge of world history goes a long way. But keep drinking the kool-aid and add a little bourbon to it so it goes down easier. :-D
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
Thank you! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: On 01/15/2012 04:58 AM, Buck wrote: All area Satsangs: While Yogic Flying produces a powerful, generalized, non-directed surge of positivity for the general well-being of society, Yagyas create a very focused, concentrated influence of positivity designed to neutralize specific threats. Like the threats that are looming today. [LAUNCHING: THE NEW NATIONAL YAGYA PROGRAM] Maharishi has designed the most powerful system of Yagya the world has ever seen. The Maharishi National YagyaSM program is a massive application of Yagya on a national scale, specifically engineered to produce the largest possible impact on an entire nation. Focus for 2012: Maharishi Yagyas® for the Nation Join us in this great endeavor, please.Let us launch this powerful new program, may abundant good fortune smile on America, and may Maharishi's great legacy of peace and enlightenment permanently bless the human race. Jai Guru Dev So what would the actual results of the a national yagya be? It should result in reducing the rakshasa big corporations to extinction and returning economic equality to the people of the USA. Of course you don't actually need a yagya to do that, just a revolution. OTOH, I'm noting that may not even be needed as the rakshasa big corporations are beginning to collapse under their own weight and bad karma. Remember that a bunch of yogic flyers went to Iran back in the late 1970s and we know what happened there. Yes I was there and know exactly what happened. Nothing. Nada. No bloodshed, even though all the embassies had closed down and all personell had left in fear of a bloody revolution. The whole world waited for something nasty and bloody. Instead the Shah quietly slipped out of Iran and later died of cancer. Much like Marcos did when we were in Manilla, slipping quietly out, later dying of cancer. Big success for the TMO, but difficult to understand for souls dictated by their intelligence, they simply do not understand the connection. Perhaps Maharishi was right, perhaps it will take 400 years before people understand what he did. Did the yogic flying troupe spur it on?
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: Big success for the TMO, but difficult to understand for souls dictated by their intelligence, they simply do not understand the connection. I couldn't agree more, intelligence is the biggest block to buying into the movement's claims. Oh suh-nap!
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
*Very* funny. Well done. Someone has put up two pictures on the wall, one is Maharishi and next to him Jimi Hendrix. LOL. Excellent. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, futur.musik futur.musik@... wrote: Maybe one day the TMO will schism into two sects, the rationalists and the bhaktis, each will seize a Dome, and its on! Each would teach the same basic technique, same puja, only the atmosphere would be quite different for each sect at initiation time: Rationalist TM: The TM Center is in an uber modern building in the city, long thin windows, high ceilings, industrial chic, painted a soft grey outside. You knock at the door and are instructed by speaker: Jai Guru Dev. Please enter your code. You check your smartphone, find the file, hold the graphic up to the reader and the door clicks open. Inside it is spacious, and spare, a faint smell of sandalwood and floor wax. You take a seat on the micro-suede and chrome Scandinavian couch. There is a low black granite coffee table in front of you, TMO publications arranged precisely to the right, with two small aluminum signs like name plates to the left, one labeled Fruit and the other, Flowers, both in a san serif font. You place your offerings in the appropriate areas on the table, and sit back to wait. You check you watch and see that you are actually right on time. Just then a door opens. You look left and see the teachers, Gunter and Lisa, both blond, tall, German, impeccably groomed, wearing single piece grey jumpsuits, walking towards you. They are both smiling when they stop in front of you (did Gunter click his heels together just then?). Jai Guru Dev!! They say in unison... Bhakti TM: The TM Center resides in a leafy tree filled neighborhood of big lawns and comfortable houses, with plenty of parking. You park and begin walking up the walkway towards a two story white cottage with red shutters. There is a sign near the door, Namaste! Come On In!. You step inside the brightly lit foyer and instantly the aroma of fresh chocolate chip cookies hits your nostrils. You start to get hungry until the strong scent of rose incense also becomes apparent, almost overpowering. Someone is playing Layla and singing to it sporadically somewhere in the back of the house. You look into the living room which has colored sheer curtains at the windows and some brightly covered throws on the overstuffed country furniture. Someone has put up two pictures on the wall, one is Maharishi and next to him Jimi Hendrix. Dude! The voice comes from around the corner. You walk through the doorway, over to a middle aged guy, trying for a ponytail with what is left, wearing overalls and a grateful dead t-shirt. Name's Krishna Patterson, and you are here to learn TM? Would you like a cookie? Just baked! I've had six! You begin to take one while at the same time noticing that Krishna is really buzzing from his sugar high. Oh and here's `teach'!. A short woman in a sari and a garland of flowers appears. Hi, I am Saraswati Rutkowski, glad to meet you! Let's get started! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, futur.musik futur.musik@ wrote: Yeah, I can see the marketing problem it presents for the TMO if they discount scientific or demonstrable results. Since the TMO has always set scientific validity as a key objective, wrt marketing and fundraising, it remains an ongoing tussle for the TMO between putting enough scientific evidence out there to bolster the claims it makes and getting pinned down with those attempts, especially wrt things like sidhis and yagyas. Maybe one day the TMO will schism into two sects, the rationalists and the bhaktis, each will seize a Dome, and its on! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Although I did use some scientific terms because I believe that this kind of claim could meet such a threshold in principle, it makes just as much sense through the perspective in this sentence: practical and solitary nature of the TM practice eventually won out. You felt results so you continued, right? Not scientific but practical. If we lower the bar below a scientific threshold and say this claim could be practically demonstrated so that people of good faith could appreciate that it was true wouldn't we be back to the need for demonstration? This is not a claim that you will feel better, it is about the world so we can share in its evidence together, in a strictly aw shucks ain't that a sight Ma kind of way. You are making a case for apriori faith in the system which is fine for believers. But since this is in principle testable, even if we accept that for people who already believe it is not necessary,wouldn't the message go out to more people just as it did for TM? Even though it wasn't the science
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@... wrote: snip There have been a number of large well-designed studies recently, such as the Templeton study, of 'intercessionary prayer', which seem a lot like yagyas. These studies failed to show any effect. Is intercessory prayer *enough* like yagyas to extrapolate the results of the prayer tests to yagyas? I can think of several differences that could render such extraplation pretty weak. Psychic, long-distance phenomena have been studied for years without making a dent in the scientific community as the results have never been clear cut, and studies have been found to contain serious flaws which became evident when replication attempts failed, such as the Targ-Puthoff long distance viewing study many years ago. The result of this study seems to have been mentioned by MMY in the Science of Being and Art of Living as an established fact, but in fact, the result was disproved. Or rather, the results were not confirmed, right? Do you have a cite for this?
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
Ha-ha! It was fun! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: *Very* funny. Well done. Someone has put up two pictures on the wall, one is Maharishi and next to him Jimi Hendrix. LOL. Excellent. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, futur.musik futur.musik@ wrote: Maybe one day the TMO will schism into two sects, the rationalists and the bhaktis, each will seize a Dome, and its on! Each would teach the same basic technique, same puja, only the atmosphere would be quite different for each sect at initiation time: Rationalist TM: The TM Center is in an uber modern building in the city, long thin windows, high ceilings, industrial chic, painted a soft grey outside. You knock at the door and are instructed by speaker: Jai Guru Dev. Please enter your code. You check your smartphone, find the file, hold the graphic up to the reader and the door clicks open. Inside it is spacious, and spare, a faint smell of sandalwood and floor wax. You take a seat on the micro-suede and chrome Scandinavian couch. There is a low black granite coffee table in front of you, TMO publications arranged precisely to the right, with two small aluminum signs like name plates to the left, one labeled Fruit and the other, Flowers, both in a san serif font. You place your offerings in the appropriate areas on the table, and sit back to wait. You check you watch and see that you are actually right on time. Just then a door opens. You look left and see the teachers, Gunter and Lisa, both blond, tall, German, impeccably groomed, wearing single piece grey jumpsuits, walking towards you. They are both smiling when they stop in front of you (did Gunter click his heels together just then?). Jai Guru Dev!! They say in unison... Bhakti TM: The TM Center resides in a leafy tree filled neighborhood of big lawns and comfortable houses, with plenty of parking. You park and begin walking up the walkway towards a two story white cottage with red shutters. There is a sign near the door, Namaste! Come On In!. You step inside the brightly lit foyer and instantly the aroma of fresh chocolate chip cookies hits your nostrils. You start to get hungry until the strong scent of rose incense also becomes apparent, almost overpowering. Someone is playing Layla and singing to it sporadically somewhere in the back of the house. You look into the living room which has colored sheer curtains at the windows and some brightly covered throws on the overstuffed country furniture. Someone has put up two pictures on the wall, one is Maharishi and next to him Jimi Hendrix. Dude! The voice comes from around the corner. You walk through the doorway, over to a middle aged guy, trying for a ponytail with what is left, wearing overalls and a grateful dead t-shirt. Name's Krishna Patterson, and you are here to learn TM? Would you like a cookie? Just baked! I've had six! You begin to take one while at the same time noticing that Krishna is really buzzing from his sugar high. Oh and here's `teach'!. A short woman in a sari and a garland of flowers appears. Hi, I am Saraswati Rutkowski, glad to meet you! Let's get started! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, futur.musik futur.musik@ wrote: Yeah, I can see the marketing problem it presents for the TMO if they discount scientific or demonstrable results. Since the TMO has always set scientific validity as a key objective, wrt marketing and fundraising, it remains an ongoing tussle for the TMO between putting enough scientific evidence out there to bolster the claims it makes and getting pinned down with those attempts, especially wrt things like sidhis and yagyas. Maybe one day the TMO will schism into two sects, the rationalists and the bhaktis, each will seize a Dome, and its on! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Although I did use some scientific terms because I believe that this kind of claim could meet such a threshold in principle, it makes just as much sense through the perspective in this sentence: practical and solitary nature of the TM practice eventually won out. You felt results so you continued, right? Not scientific but practical. If we lower the bar below a scientific threshold and say this claim could be practically demonstrated so that people of good faith could appreciate that it was true wouldn't we be back to the need for demonstration? This is not a claim that you will feel better, it is about the world so we can share in its evidence together, in a strictly aw shucks ain't that a sight Ma kind of way. You are making a case for apriori faith in the system which is fine for believers. But since this is in principle testable,
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: snip There have been a number of large well-designed studies recently, such as the Templeton study, of 'intercessionary prayer', which seem a lot like yagyas. These studies failed to show any effect. Is intercessory prayer *enough* like yagyas to extrapolate the results of the prayer tests to yagyas? I can think of several differences that could render such extraplation pretty weak. Psychic, long-distance phenomena have been studied for years without making a dent in the scientific community as the results have never been clear cut, and studies have been found to contain serious flaws which became evident when replication attempts failed, such as the Targ-Puthoff long distance viewing study many years ago. The result of this study seems to have been mentioned by MMY in the Science of Being and Art of Living as an established fact, but in fact, the result was disproved. Or rather, the results were not confirmed, right? Do you have a cite for this? Doesn't sound accurate. I read that book thoroughly when it came out and there was no Autobiography of a Yogi stuff in it. It is all about integrating TM into society.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Need is for National Yagya
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, futur.musik futur.musik@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: snip There have been a number of large well-designed studies recently, such as the Templeton study, of 'intercessionary prayer', which seem a lot like yagyas. These studies failed to show any effect. Is intercessory prayer *enough* like yagyas to extrapolate the results of the prayer tests to yagyas? I can think of several differences that could render such extraplation pretty weak. Psychic, long-distance phenomena have been studied for years without making a dent in the scientific community as the results have never been clear cut, and studies have been found to contain serious flaws which became evident when replication attempts failed, such as the Targ-Puthoff long distance viewing study many years ago. The result of this study seems to have been mentioned by MMY in the Science of Being and Art of Living as an established fact, but in fact, the result was disproved. Or rather, the results were not confirmed, right? Do you have a cite for this? Doesn't sound accurate. I read that book thoroughly when it came out and there was no Autobiography of a Yogi stuff in it. It is all about integrating TM into society. Actually I meant a cite for the Targ-Puthoff results being disproved. I don't know about SBAL mentioning the study. Don't care about that one way or the other.