Re: [jdev] Need help for developing a client in web application - jabber
http://www.google.co.za/search?q=jabber+php+client On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 5:20 AM, Srinivasan.M, ANGLER - EIT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, Can you please kind me or send me a sample code for developing a client in web application using PHP, we were using jabber (ejabberd server). I need your help guys.. I requested this things several areas, but there is no one to answer. I hope you may answer. I was register in jdev, but I couldn't able to post the mails there. So I writing here. Please help me in this regards. Thanks and Regards, Srinivasan M -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 2:24 AM To: jdev@jabber.org Subject: JDev Digest, Vol 50, Issue 35 Send JDev mailing list submissions to jdev@jabber.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/jdev or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can reach the person managing the list at [EMAIL PROTECTED] When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of JDev digest... -- - Norman Rasmussen - Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Home page: http://norman.rasmussen.co.za/
Re: [jdev] Wordpress plugin
Apparently Psi does not know what to do when he receives the message from the pubsub node. Yes, it does know what to do with pubsub messages: ignore them, unless they publish to a namespace that is known how to display it in the UI (tunes, mood, avatar). Adding support for new namespaces easy; knowing how to display this namespace, however, is not. Personally, I have always thought that reading RSS feeds/blog posts in an IM client is like forcing a round peg through a square hole. No matter how much I like my IM client, there are much better tools for doing this. But many people disagree. This opinion on IM clients aside, I think publishing wordpress blogs to pubsub nodes is cool. Maybe someone should create a dedicated XMPP client for reading feeds (either web-based or desktop), or add XMPP support to a good existing RSS reader. I don't really know of anything better than Google Reader, so it would be very nice to have something like that in a free version doing XMPP pubsub. A GSOC plugin could look into the different aspects of reading and publishing (atom) feeds in general would be worthwile i think. cheers, Remko
Re: [jdev] Wordpress plugin
Hello, in my own opinion, I don't see notification so different. At the opposite, I think IM and notification are related and I far prefer to have all in a single program. Let's imagine a world where XMPP is very extended and used. I would travel a lot and then arrive in a Cyber-Café on a public computer. Then I would simply login to my Jabber account through a web-based interface (for instance, like gmail), or some installed Jabber client on this public machine. And with a single login, I would have access to my contacts, my adress book, my calendar, my bookmarks (as well web than Jabber bookmarks), my notification, etc. Then I travel with my own environment easily. Moreover if you had a separate program just for notification, how would the server knows which of your IM software or your feed software to notify? I think not remember you can precise a specific resource to notify. The server simply redirects the notification to one of the connected resources like the normal protocol of IM (so if your feed reader is not connected, you will get the notification on your IM client as soon as you connect, and then you would lose a notification without knowing it?!). Then the best mean to avoid this case is to have another account dedicated to the feeds, but then I think this is really a drawback to have to do so. And you remove one of the advantages of XMPP (and for my scenario above, then you lose all the advantages). For me, XMPP is far more than just an IM protocol. Or more than separate things to do in separate programs. I think this is a powerful protocol if you can do so many things you can imagine with just a single login. Jehan [ISO-8859-1] Remko Tron�on writes: Apparently Psi does not know what to do when he receives the message from the pubsub node. Yes, it does know what to do with pubsub messages: ignore them, unless they publish to a namespace that is known how to display it in the UI (tunes, mood, avatar). Adding support for new namespaces easy; knowing how to display this namespace, however, is not. Personally, I have always thought that reading RSS feeds/blog posts in an IM client is like forcing a round peg through a square hole. No matter how much I like my IM client, there are much better tools for doing this. But many people disagree. This opinion on IM clients aside, I think publishing wordpress blogs to pubsub nodes is cool. Maybe someone should create a dedicated XMPP client for reading feeds (either web-based or desktop), or add XMPP support to a good existing RSS reader. I don't really know of anything better than Google Reader, so it would be very nice to have something like that in a free version doing XMPP pubsub. A GSOC plugin could look into the different aspects of reading and publishing (atom) feeds in general would be worthwile i think. cheers, Remko
Re: [jdev] another GSoC idea: JMS-to-XMPP bridge
On Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 10:30 PM, Peter Saint-Andre [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been receiving more inquiries about using XMPP for enterprise messaging, along the lines of JMS, Tibco, webMethods, and the like. I wonder if a GSoC project for a gateway between JMS and XMPP might be interesting. JMS has two modes: 1. publish-subscribe -- this maps pretty closely to XEP-0060 so writing a bridge should be fairly straightforward. 2. point-to-point or queueing -- we don't have anything quite like this in XMPP, although offline message storage gets us pretty close (we just need to make sure the message is acked). Thoughts? We like it since it's one of the things on which we are thinking about ;) There are two main things that should be done in such a project - define a client API for pubsub, e.g. as a developer I don't want to manually create a topic on pubsub and configure it with dataforms, I want to to it with just one function call. JMS API could be a model for a start, though I think the API should be a bit wider since our pubsub model is more complex; the GSoC project could concentrate on just replicating the JMS functionalities on pubsub - define naming of topics: with jms I can only subscribe to topics of the server I'm connected to, while on XMPP you can subscribe to any pubsub service -- Fabio Forno, Ph.D. Bluendo srl http://www.bluendo.com jabber id: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jdev] Wordpress plugin
Then I would simply login to my Jabber account through a web-based interface (for instance, like gmail), GMail is an example of 2 different applications clearly separated into one user interface, and integrating on some fronts. I don't have a problem with that. My problem is if you start creating one giant client that does everything, where you soon end up with a user interface that is only mediocre at all tasks, and very confusing. Moreover if you had a separate program just for notification, how would the server knows which of your IM software or your feed software to notify? I An IM client wouldn't publish the capability of reading feeds, and as such would not get notifications. For me, XMPP is far more than just an IM protocol. I don't think anyone is doubting that XMPP is more than an IM protocol. The question is whether you should build an XMPP client that implements *everything* you can do with XMPP. My opinion is that this leads to bad, uninspired applications. The best applications are focused on their task, and do it extremely well. cheers, Remko
Re: [jdev] Wordpress plugin
On Mar 25, 2008, at 8:26 AM, Remko Tronçon wrote: Apparently Psi does not know what to do when he receives the message from the pubsub node. Yes, it does know what to do with pubsub messages: ignore them, unless they publish to a namespace that is known how to display it in the UI (tunes, mood, avatar). Adding support for new namespaces easy; knowing how to display this namespace, however, is not. Personally, I have always thought that reading RSS feeds/blog posts in an IM client is like forcing a round peg through a square hole. No matter how much I like my IM client, there are much better tools for doing this. But many people disagree. I agree with you that reading feeds/blog posts have clearly better tools, but that's not the only use case for Atom-over-pubsub. I see Atom as a better medium than plain messages to transport notifications in general. A good example would be Nagios notifications. Besides, if everybody starts publishing blog updates to a pubsub node, maybe we can stop this non-sense of pooling feeds once and for all. Best regards, -- HIId: Pedro Melo SMTP: [EMAIL PROTECTED] XMPP: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jdev] Wordpress plugin
On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 9:26 AM, Remko Tronçon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Apparently Psi does not know what to do when he receives the message from the pubsub node. Yes, it does know what to do with pubsub messages: ignore them, unless they publish to a namespace that is known how to display it in the UI (tunes, mood, avatar). Adding support for new namespaces easy; knowing how to display this namespace, however, is not. Personally, I have always thought that reading RSS feeds/blog posts in an IM client is like forcing a round peg through a square hole. No matter how much I like my IM client, there are much better tools for doing this. But many people disagree. Here I am among them ;) You are right if you consider present IM clients, which handle content only if they have hardcoded support for that particular namespace. That is the reason for which we stated the API mailing list, IM clients should be able to retrieve also the presentation logic of the content and what's better than html + javascipt? The main reason for which I think that IM clients are the best options is that we're talking of content whose nature is push, we don't want to open a client and see whether there is some new doing human polling... This opinion on IM clients aside, I think publishing wordpress blogs to pubsub nodes is cool. Maybe someone should create a dedicated XMPP client for reading feeds (either web-based or desktop), or add XMPP support to a good existing RSS reader. I don't really know of anything better than Google Reader, so it would be very nice to have something like that in a free version doing XMPP pubsub. A GSOC plugin could look into the different aspects of reading and publishing (atom) feeds in general would be worthwile i think. This is what we can have in a reasonable time, but for the future I'd bet on direct support on IM clients or XMPP integration in browsers -- Fabio Forno, Ph.D. Bluendo srl http://www.bluendo.com jabber id: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jdev] Wordpress plugin
GMail is an example of 2 different applications clearly separated into one user interface, and integrating on some fronts. I don't have a problem with that. My problem is if you start creating one giant client that does everything, where you soon end up with a user interface that is only mediocre at all tasks, and very confusing. I don't really agree. That's not like a program which does all and nothing, with too different tasks. As I said, for me they are related features and this can be done with a very simplistic and intuitive interface. Of course, after this you have better developpers, better designers, and so better programs than other. I just spoke of gmail because this has some reputation currently and this enables to do many things which are very close to what could be done with Jabber, with the advantage that it is XMPP, so a decentralized network where you would choose your provider, though sharing some common clients (light web clients or heavy local ones). An IM client wouldn't publish the capability of reading feeds, and as such would not get notifications. Ok for this, but currently do clients tell what are their features? I thought it was only the server which does it. And so the idea would be that when a client connects, it tells to the server I can do this and this, hence a pubsub message would stay on the server as long as no client connects and tells it has this capacity? This is interesting. I don't think anyone is doubting that XMPP is more than an IM protocol. The question is whether you should build an XMPP client that implements *everything* you can do with XMPP. My opinion is that this leads to bad, uninspired applications. The best applications are focused on their task, and do it extremely well. I already gave my opinion above about this. I would just like to add thoughts in order to give weight to what Pedro Melo and Fabio Forno already said. XMPP has a specificity compared to what you suggest: it is a push system! This is something which gives the pubsub system for notification (for blog, website news, and so on) several very great advantages: - realtime - fabulous gain of bandwith: no need for a feed program anymore which connects to your website several times a day. Here it is replaced by a single connection by the website itself which will feed the node. And then it is up to the XMPP server to dispatch the notification to all subscribers. I remember some small blog which had to stop their RSS feeds because they had a small personnal server which had been completely loaded up by people's agregators trying to load news every 10 minutes. This could not happen with xmpp pubsub. This cannot be compared to current feed system because this work very differently. This is not something you check regularly. This is just a system where you are simply connected on the net without thinking of this and then you get notified about things you like and you wanted to be notified! The difference is that you don't need to take care anymore of this. You don't have to run specifically a program for following news: they come to you. For me this is another way of doing. For my own I use a little feeds, but I don't like it so much. I don't like to go and check my feed program. Moreover even for IM features, I am not really fond of the current systems of a IM dedicated program with this list window which stays always opened. I think Jabber client can be so much more, and this passes through the step more integrated. After this, let's imagine many other advantages. You could imagine that at the opposite, you can publish from your Jabber client on your blog, by simply publishing to the node with a publisher login (and this would push on your blog bot which is a Jabber client). And pubsub is not only notification. With this, you can imagine an implementation of Jabber mailing list where every subscriber has also the right to publish. So you just publish on the node and everyone receives (this is not like a muc chatroom, because you don't have the presence). And for all this, I don't want to have 10 different programs, because for me it is the same thing: sending and receiving messages which matters (I subscribed to them). Your turn to speak. ;-) Jehan
Re: [jdev] Wordpress plugin
Ok for this, but currently do clients tell what are their features? I thought it was only the server which does it. And so the idea would be that when a client connects, it tells to the server I can do this and this, xep-0115 is what you are looking for, and does exactly that. said. XMPP has a specificity compared to what you suggest: it is a push system! This is something which gives the pubsub system for notification (for blog, website news, and so on) several very great advantages: Again, I'm not contesting how useful XMPP/PubSub is for feeds, as opposed to the pull that is currently used. I'm just questioning putting the task of reading feeds in the same program as the one you use to do IM. Apart from the fact that both consist of titles/bodies, and can be carried accross XMPP, these are 2 completely different tasks, and require completely different user interfaces for different types of management (optionally tied together in one encompassing UI, like a webpage or an MDI). By the way, the most important disadvantage of push is probably privacy: with push, you have to provide your contact address in order to get notifications, which can be passed on, and depends on the server to unsubscribe you from it. I wouldn't want to give my jid to all the RSS feed sites I'm subscribed to. And personally, I think privacy is a lot more worth than bandwidth. cheers, Remko
Re: [jdev] Wordpress plugin
Again, I'm not contesting how useful XMPP/PubSub is for feeds, as opposed to the pull that is currently used. I'm just questioning putting the task of reading feeds in the same program as the one you use to do IM. Apart from the fact that both consist of titles/bodies, and can be carried accross XMPP, these are 2 completely different tasks, and require completely different user interfaces for different types of management (optionally tied together in one encompassing UI, like a webpage or an MDI). Yes you are right, the mis-understanding here is that you want several programs dedicated and I want one program for all (in fact, that's not what I want: I would want rather integration, I don't want to see again XMPP, as a simple user! :p). That's a complicated discussion because I think there is no solution because this is not a problem, just a question of viewpoint I guess. So let's stop this discussion for now. Maybe some other day. ;-) By the way, the most important disadvantage of push is probably privacy: with push, you have to provide your contact address in order to get notifications, which can be passed on, and depends on the server to unsubscribe you from it. I wouldn't want to give my jid to all the RSS feed sites I'm subscribed to. And personally, I think privacy is a lot more worth than bandwidth. That's in fact a point I wanted to talk about with Peter Saint André. The difference with what you talk about and XMPP is that you subscribe to a Jabber server, not to the website itself. Yet the node owner can retrieve the subscription list or also he can simply be the one providing the Jabber server, that's true. But there is one point he cannot control: your own server provider that you are supposed to trust (and if you don't, change it). I think there should be some kind of roster for the pubsub subscriptions. Apparently there is no such thing in the XEP (but I may be wrong). So you could imagine a system (indeed there should be such a system) where your server keeps track of your own subscription (as well as it keeps track of your contact list). Hence if you receive notification from a node you have not subscribed (or you have unsubscribed since), I think your server should simply reject it and aknowledge the sending server (which should then unsubscribe you. And even if it is a spam server which will keep your jid, he won't be able to send you notifications) without disturbing you. What do you think of this? Jehan
Re: [jdev] Wordpress plugin
Fabio Forno wrote: You are right if you consider present IM clients, which handle content only if they have hardcoded support for that particular namespace. That is the reason for which we stated the API mailing list, IM clients should be able to retrieve also the presentation logic of the content and what's better than html + javascipt? We could put a link to XSLT stylesheet somewhere in the notification and then we'd be able to display everything. -- Maciek xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jdev] Wordpress plugin
And even if it is a spam server which will keep your jid, he won't be able to send you notifications) without disturbing you. What do you think of this? Well, you're trying to fight pubsub spim, but that's only a very small part of the picture. Once your jid is out in the open, it can be used through any channel over XMPP (normal messages, ...). There are efforts to fight spim in general, so I don't think taclking this very specific case is very useful. The fact remains that it is still better to avoid spim than fight it, and there's no real way to avoid it with a push system. The best you can do AFAICT is to do things like introduce a third-party (e.g. your own trusted server) to manage your subscriptions, and let it relay everything, but that would just be moving the problem. cheers, Remko
Re: [jdev] Wordpress plugin
On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 2:42 PM, jehan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes you are right, the mis-understanding here is that you want several programs dedicated and I want one program for all [...] I think the point is that, yes, XMPP can be used for feeds/atom/pubsub, but Psi the IM application is not meant to be a feed-reader. If you want to make an XMPP based feed-reader then you're more than welcome, but that's not the focus of the Psi project. The Psi project would rather focus on making one kick-ass IM client, than a half-baked IM client/feed-reader. -- - Norman Rasmussen - Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Home page: http://norman.rasmussen.co.za/
Re: [jdev] Wordpress plugin
Speaking of Psi and a half-baked IM client/feed-reader: http://iss.im/node/5 :) On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 9:43 AM, Norman Rasmussen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 2:42 PM, jehan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes you are right, the mis-understanding here is that you want several programs dedicated and I want one program for all [...] I think the point is that, yes, XMPP can be used for feeds/atom/pubsub, but Psi the IM application is not meant to be a feed-reader. If you want to make an XMPP based feed-reader then you're more than welcome, but that's not the focus of the Psi project. The Psi project would rather focus on making one kick-ass IM client, than a half-baked IM client/feed-reader. -- - Norman Rasmussen - Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Home page: http://norman.rasmussen.co.za/
Re: [jdev] Wordpress plugin
Well, you're trying to fight pubsub spim, but that's only a very small part of the picture. Once your jid is out in the open, it can be used through any channel over XMPP (normal messages, ...). There are efforts to fight spim in general, so I don't think taclking this very specific case is very useful. The fact remains that it is still better to avoid spim than fight it, I don't think unfortunately that a system which will completely avoid spam a priori exists. I mean, anyway you can be as careful as you want, unless you really never give your jid, it will finishes to be spread with the time. That's sad, but that's it. My postal mail box also is filled with spam every days and I don't see how to avoid it (I tried to glue some paper saying no advertisement, but they still put some and the paper finally disappears). If ever some day you are disturbed in the phone by jokers, maybe will you call your phone provider, police, or simply change your phone number... Spammers exist everywhere, for every communication mean, and there is no real mean to stop them, else than stopping communicate (no postal box, no phone, no email, no Jabber). That's sad, but I don't see real way to prevent totally spam, whatever form it takes. And the case I proposed is not so specific. For instance, you can configure your roster (I remember it is somewhere in the rfc) to block some contact, or simply to only accept communication from people in your roster. Of course if you do so, there is still a mean to be spammed: spammer will ask to be added to your roster; so you will be spammed by this kind of request maybe. Of course you can also block this, then you will be the only one able to initiate a roster add. This is annoying but anyway there is no real way of stopping a spammer (you could do filter, but I don't like all these intelligent filters because they often do errors). Yet Jabber could propose some configuration of your nodes like this. and there's no real way to avoid it with a push system. The best you can do AFAICT is to do things like introduce a third-party (e.g. your own trusted server) to manage your subscriptions, and let it relay everything, but that would just be moving the problem. That's what I proposed. But no need to have your own server, just A trusted server (and to change it when you lose your trust in it). If it implements the basic security rules, then it should only send you messages the way you have configured your account (for instance reject any message outside my roster). Jehan
Re: [jdev] Wordpress plugin
Interesting project! Though it is more social networking than feed notification (or at least a mix of both). :-) Jehan Nick Vidal writes: Speaking of Psi and a half-baked IM client/feed-reader: http://iss.im/node/5 :) On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 9:43 AM, Norman Rasmussen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 2:42 PM, jehan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes you are right, the mis-understanding here is that you want several programs dedicated and I want one program for all [...] I think the point is that, yes, XMPP can be used for feeds/atom/pubsub, but Psi the IM application is not meant to be a feed-reader. If you want to make an XMPP based feed-reader then you're more than welcome, but that's not the focus of the Psi project. The Psi project would rather focus on making one kick-ass IM client, than a half-baked IM client/feed-reader. -- - Norman Rasmussen - Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Home page: http://norman.rasmussen.co.za/
Re: [jdev] Wordpress plugin
On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 12:38 PM, Remko Tronçon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: By the way, the most important disadvantage of push is probably privacy: with push, you have to provide your contact address in order to get notifications, which can be passed on, and depends on the server to unsubscribe you from it. I wouldn't want to give my jid to all the RSS feed sites I'm subscribed to. And personally, I think privacy is a lot more worth than bandwidth. This is a tradeoff we should face sooner or later. On one side the problem is real, on the other you already must provide an email address for commenting post blogs or for using many web 2.0 social services on the net. Moreover it is not just a bandwidth issue, but the real added value of XMPP is the possibility to tune delivery accordingly to presence or resources, thus tuning the feed to the specific context use. However each time you start using these features you also have to give away little bits of your privacy. The good thing about XMPP is that you always have control about about who you have in your roster and, if privacy in such services becomes a real problem there could be technical solutions (e.g. a local pubsub service which anonimously subscribes to remote nodes and relays them) bye -- Fabio Forno, Ph.D. Bluendo srl http://www.bluendo.com jabber id: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jdev] Wordpress plugin
but the real added value of XMPP is the possibility to tune delivery accordingly to presence or resources, thus tuning the feed to the Sure, as long as you stay within your roster, all is well. This is why PEP is very well suited for PubSub. However, my argument was that some people believe RSS feeds should be removed completely in favor of a PubSub system, and this goes well outside your roster. And once it goes outside of my roster of trusted contacts, that's where I would stop using a push system for notifications. And yes, SPIM will always exist, and your JID will always leak. However, as with e-mail, the more your address becomes visible, the more spam you get (and no, it's not just a fraction more, it's significantly more). It always pays off to keep your jid private as much as possible, no matter how much you are spammed already. But this is getting off-topic. cheers, Remko
Re: [jdev] Wordpress plugin
Moreover it is not just a bandwidth issue, but the real added value of XMPP is the possibility to tune delivery accordingly to presence or resources, thus tuning the feed to the specific context use. Yes this is a great feature of the pubsub node. There is a configuration on both side. On the publishing side, the publisher/creator configure the default options of the node. On the subscriber side, you can either accept default options or choose your own (so if you do not want the payload, but just a notification for instance; or even if you don't want any notification at all, just subscribing to a service without being pinged, etc.). However each time you start using these features you also have to give away little bits of your privacy. The good thing about XMPP is that you always have control about about who you have in your roster and, if privacy in such services becomes a real problem there could be technical solutions (e.g. a local pubsub service which anonimously subscribes to remote nodes and relays them) That's a nice idea. This way you can subscribe without giving your real jid (the redirection is managed by your trusted server). And if the service tries to use a jid a bad way, it may enable to trace which pubsub service it was (if the service had generated some specific jid for each subscription for instance?). Jehan
Re: [jdev] Wordpress plugin
Fabio Forno wrote: On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 12:38 PM, Remko Tronçon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: By the way, the most important disadvantage of push is probably privacy: with push, you have to provide your contact address in order to get notifications, which can be passed on, and depends on the server to unsubscribe you from it. I wouldn't want to give my jid to all the RSS feed sites I'm subscribed to. And personally, I think privacy is a lot more worth than bandwidth. This is a tradeoff we should face sooner or later. On one side the problem is real, on the other you already must provide an email address for commenting post blogs or for using many web 2.0 social services on the net. Moreover it is not just a bandwidth issue, but the real added value of XMPP is the possibility to tune delivery accordingly to presence or resources, thus tuning the feed to the specific context use. However each time you start using these features you also have to give away little bits of your privacy. The good thing about XMPP is that you always have control about about who you have in your roster and, if privacy in such services becomes a real problem there could be technical solutions (e.g. a local pubsub service which anonimously subscribes to remote nodes and relays them) Yes, repeaters could help here. Peter -- Peter Saint-Andre https://stpeter.im/ smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: [jdev] another GSoC idea: JMS-to-XMPP bridge
Peter Saint-Andre wrote: OK, let's put some information about this on the wiki page, then. :) Done: http://wiki.jabber.org/index.php/Summer_of_Code_2008#JMS-to-XMPP_bridge Peter -- Peter Saint-Andre https://stpeter.im/ smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: [jdev] another GSoC idea: JMS-to-XMPP bridge
On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 4:46 PM, Peter Saint-Andre [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Peter Saint-Andre wrote: OK, let's put some information about this on the wiki page, then. :) Done: http://wiki.jabber.org/index.php/Summer_of_Code_2008#JMS-to-XMPP_bridge superfast ;) -- Fabio Forno, Ph.D. Bluendo srl http://www.bluendo.com jabber id: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[jdev] going social
There's quite a bit of interest in using XMPP within social networking (or, if you must, Web 2.0) applications. Therefore I have started a special list for such discussions: http://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/social Some background here: https://stpeter.im/?p=2177 See you on the list! Peter -- Peter Saint-Andre https://stpeter.im/ smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: [jdev] Wordpress plugin
Norman Rasmussen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think the point is that, yes, XMPP can be used for feeds/atom/pubsub, but Psi the IM application is not meant to be a feed-reader. If you want to make an XMPP based feed-reader then you're more than welcome, but that's not the focus of the Psi project. The Psi project would rather focus on making one kick-ass IM client, than a half-baked IM client/feed-reader. Actually, I want my IM client to be a half-baked feed reader. Some Atom feeds have content that I wouldn't mind seeing as IM messages sent to me. For most cases I want a real feed reader, though. -- Magnus JID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jdev] Wordpress plugin
Magnus Henoch wrote: Norman Rasmussen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think the point is that, yes, XMPP can be used for feeds/atom/pubsub, but Psi the IM application is not meant to be a feed-reader. If you want to make an XMPP based feed-reader then you're more than welcome, but that's not the focus of the Psi project. The Psi project would rather focus on making one kick-ass IM client, than a half-baked IM client/feed-reader. Actually, I want my IM client to be a half-baked feed reader. Some Atom feeds have content that I wouldn't mind seeing as IM messages sent to me. For most cases I want a real feed reader, though. I use my IM client to receive feeds via Mimir. But maybe I'm weird. :) /psa smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
[jdev] GSoC: Jingle hack
I just wrote a proposal for a GSoC project on the wiki: http://wiki.jabber.org/index.php/Summer_of_Code_2008#Client-Independent_D-Bus_Service_for_Jingle_Audio From previous inquiries I have found that I'm probably the only person enthusiastic about that, but in case I'm wrong: would someone be interested in being a mentor for that project? I'm unable to be one myself, but I would gladly be a meta-mentor (with limited time investment during summer) for someone with a decent command of C and Glib. And, of course, is there an interested student? -- Magnus JID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jdev] GSoC: Jingle hack
From previous inquiries I have found that I'm probably the only person enthusiastic about that, but in case I'm wrong I don't really get how it works (or is supposed to work). Can you explain it a bit? cheers, Remko
Re: [jdev] Wordpress plugin
I use my IM client to receive feeds via Mimir. But maybe I'm weird. :) You just get so many messages a day that a few 100 more is neglectible with respect to the rest ;-) That, or you don't really read that many RSS feeds. I get about 600 messages a day, i couldn't imagine the horror of getting them all in a linear list of jabber messages from one contact. Moreover, I would constantly have my 'new message' icon blinking all day, so I would start ignoring the icon, and important *real* IM traffic wouldn't reach me in real time. But anyway, enough ranting. I could see blog posts (etc.) getting inside an IM client, if they would be tied to a contact (i.e. if they are published via PEP). The difference with the other PEP stuff coming into clients today is that, for the blog case, you probably want to be able to turn off auto-subscription for a certain number of contacts (as opposed to e.g. tune information, where it doesn't really matter, as it doesn't interrupt you). You would also want a flat, linear history of all contacts together, filtered on certain types of events, such that you can get something like he home pages from plaxo or facebook. But this is all quite some work, especially if you want to do this right. cheers, Remko
Re: [jdev] GSoC: Jingle hack
Remko Tronçon [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I don't really get how it works (or is supposed to work). Can you explain it a bit? The client does what it is good at - slinging XML back and forth. When it needs to set up a Jingle session, it asks the component to do so, relaying the necessary details over D-Bus. The component opens the audio device and connects to the other party, hiding all such details from the client. This is essential to jabber.el, as it is unable to load libraries, but other clients could use such a component as well. The current status is that Tox can tell the client which codecs it supports, which the client then uses to send the initial Jingle stanza. Doing the actual connection comes next... -- Magnus JID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jdev] Wordpress plugin
Remko Tronçon wrote: I use my IM client to receive feeds via Mimir. But maybe I'm weird. :) You just get so many messages a day that a few 100 more is neglectible with respect to the rest ;-) That, or you don't really read that many RSS feeds. I get about 600 messages a day, i couldn't imagine the horror of getting them all in a linear list of jabber messages from one contact. Moreover, I would constantly have my 'new message' icon blinking all day, so I would start ignoring the icon, and important *real* IM traffic wouldn't reach me in real time. But anyway, enough ranting. I could see blog posts (etc.) getting inside an IM client, if they would be tied to a contact (i.e. if they are published via PEP). The difference with the other PEP stuff coming into clients today is that, for the blog case, you probably want to be able to turn off auto-subscription for a certain number of contacts (as opposed to e.g. tune information, where it doesn't really matter, as it doesn't interrupt you). You would also want a flat, linear history of all contacts together, filtered on certain types of events, such that you can get something like he home pages from plaxo or facebook. But this is all quite some work, especially if you want to do this right. You're right. An XMPP-enabled feed reader would be cool and this really doesn't belong in an IM client, but for now it's the only way that I can receive these things in real time. :) Peter -- Peter Saint-Andre https://stpeter.im/ smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: [jdev] Wordpress plugin
On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 3:03 PM, Remko Tronçon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: but the real added value of XMPP is the possibility to tune delivery accordingly to presence or resources, thus tuning the feed to the Sure, as long as you stay within your roster, all is well. This is why PEP is very well suited for PubSub. However, my argument was that some people believe RSS feeds should be removed completely in favor of a PubSub system, and this goes well outside your roster. And once it goes outside of my roster of trusted contacts, that's where I would stop using a push system for notifications. There are workarounds for this (e.g repeaters, or federating pubsub servers, so that a feed publisher can see only anonymous nodes subscribed to their feeds, and this will save even more bandwidth). However my point was just: privacy should never be a stopper for designing a service, just a requirement, then let users choose. bye -- Fabio Forno, Ph.D. Bluendo srl http://www.bluendo.com jabber id: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jdev] Wordpress plugin
On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 10:26 PM, Peter Saint-Andre [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You're right. An XMPP-enabled feed reader would be cool and this really doesn't belong in an IM client, but for now it's the only way that I can receive these things in real time. :) apologies to the list: rantGoogle Reader seems to have near-real-time notifications of new items, but then require you to hit the stupid 'refresh' button to see what they actually are (anyone working on Google Reader listening? Make it work like Google Mail - dynamically insert items into the list!)/rant -- - Norman Rasmussen - Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Home page: http://norman.rasmussen.co.za/
Re: [jdev] Wordpress plugin
On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 9:51 PM, Peter Saint-Andre [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I use my IM client to receive feeds via Mimir. But maybe I'm weird. :) I used to use rss.jabber.ru, but it seems to be broken now. Mimir looks like a good alternative. -- - Norman Rasmussen - Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Home page: http://norman.rasmussen.co.za/
Re: [jdev] Wordpress plugin
2008/3/25, Remko Tronçon [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I get about 600 messages a day, i couldn't imagine the horror of getting them all in a linear list of jabber messages from one contact. Moreover, I would constantly have my 'new message' icon blinking all day, so I would start ignoring the icon, and important *real* IM traffic wouldn't reach me in real time. There is a simple 2-steps solution for that ;-) 1) Make sure the notification service sends messages of the type 'normal' and not 'chat'. The latter is only meant for chat. The first is more like email. 2) Switch to Coccinella and leave the new message dialog open the whole day (minimized in the task bar). Only process all these messages once a day (or a few times). More urgent chat messages will still be visible and there will be no mix of urgent chat messages and 1000 feed notifications. A plus is that Coccinella has no annoying blinking xmas tree feature... But anyway, enough ranting. I could see blog posts (etc.) getting inside an IM client, if they would be tied to a contact (i.e. if they are published via PEP). Yes, User Blogging is definitely some XEP that is missing IMO. Currently people abuse (IMO) presence state messages for sharing interesting URLs, things they are doing, and so forth. IMO this presence state message should only be used to tell e.g. you'll be back in 5 minutes. User Blogging feature wish: * Twitter style blogging * support for tags (so your contacts can opt to subscribe to only a specific tag) * clients will be able to provide a separate interface with history * SoC 2009 project for integration with Wordpress B-) The difference with the other PEP stuff coming into clients today is that, for the blog case, you probably want to be able to turn off auto-subscription for a certain number of contacts (as opposed to e.g. tune information, where it doesn't really matter, as it doesn't interrupt you). I think clients just should provide an interface that does not annoys the user with every blog update. E.g., it can display a simple *non-blinking* icon next to the contact in the roster to indicate that there are new blog posts of this contact. snip -- Mvg, Sander Devrieze.
Re: [jdev] Wordpress plugin
Sander Devrieze wrote: 2008/3/25, Remko Tronçon [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I get about 600 messages a day, i couldn't imagine the horror of getting them all in a linear list of jabber messages from one contact. Moreover, I would constantly have my 'new message' icon blinking all day, so I would start ignoring the icon, and important *real* IM traffic wouldn't reach me in real time. There is a simple 2-steps solution for that ;-) 1) Make sure the notification service sends messages of the type 'normal' and not 'chat'. The latter is only meant for chat. The first is more like email. IMHO the notifications should be sent using type='headline' But anyway, enough ranting. I could see blog posts (etc.) getting inside an IM client, if they would be tied to a contact (i.e. if they are published via PEP). Yes, User Blogging is definitely some XEP that is missing IMO. Currently people abuse (IMO) presence state messages for sharing interesting URLs, things they are doing, and so forth. IMO this presence state message should only be used to tell e.g. you'll be back in 5 minutes. User Blogging feature wish: * Twitter style blogging * support for tags (so your contacts can opt to subscribe to only a specific tag) * clients will be able to provide a separate interface with history * SoC 2009 project for integration with Wordpress B-) Those sound like good features. Especially tagging. The difference with the other PEP stuff coming into clients today is that, for the blog case, you probably want to be able to turn off auto-subscription for a certain number of contacts (as opposed to e.g. tune information, where it doesn't really matter, as it doesn't interrupt you). I think clients just should provide an interface that does not annoys the user with every blog update. E.g., it can display a simple *non-blinking* icon next to the contact in the roster to indicate that there are new blog posts of this contact. Yes, some of this is just good interface design. Not that I know anything about that. ;-) Peter -- Peter Saint-Andre https://stpeter.im/ smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: [jdev] Wordpress plugin
Hello, User Blogging feature wish: * Twitter style blogging * support for tags (so your contacts can opt to subscribe to only a specific tag) * clients will be able to provide a separate interface with history * SoC 2009 project for integration with Wordpress B-) Those sound like good features. Especially tagging. yes the tag support is one of the feature which should definitely be added to the subscription configuration! Indeed they should be a good filter support on items. So for a blog-like node, you can subscribe to the node but configure your subscription so that you only receive items with specific tags. But you can imagine also other kind filters. Like on a selling website, I am looking for a garage close to my home. But I want it not to be too expensive and close to my place. So I could subscribe to a node which is feeded with all new selling announcement, but ask to be notified only by the items in my neighbourhood, and under a given price. I think it would be good to be able to configure a node subscription with detailed filters... Jehan
Re: [jdev] GSoC Proposal: XSD Schema Compiler
Hi, as you mention ASN.1 and XML. I did some research recently about it, and I found a standard 1:1 mapping for ASN.1 and XML-Schema, and there is also a ASN.1 encoding standard (extended XER or something like that) which ensures, that a structure serialized to XML is valid according to the equivalent XML-Schema. By using these two standards, it should be no problem to switch to ASN. 1 and vice verse. Regards, Gerhard On 24/03/2008, at 4:32 PM, Evgeniy Khramtsov wrote: Remko Tronçon wrote: Does anyone have any experience/thoughts on this? I have a thought: you (along with EXI WG) are just reinventing ASN. 1. Of course, I know we cannot swith to ASN.1, so we have to reinvent a wheel. It's sad.
