Re: ITA approved accounting software that runs on linux
Hi, Hopefully you will get or find a striate answer but as I follow this question for a long time with no actionable resoles I would: 1. Rephrase the question to: "Is anyone hear using or knows someone who uses a linux desktop application (not a web based site) for an IL business accounting?" 2. Consider using the old windows program in a virtual machine, it maybe even better then the present setup, as you can access it from other PCs in the network. *** you may need to make sure more then one concoction is not aloud, depending on the original software design ***. HTH, :-) On 2014-02-10 00:16, E.S. Rosenberg wrote: Hi all, I know this subject has been dealt with in the past but since the field is fluid I'm bringing it up again. A friend of mine manages the books for several zedaka funds, currently he still does this on an old DOS machine running chashavshevet, but the machine is starting to display some potential signs of problems so he is starting to look at other solutions. Sadly (but understandably) gnucash is not Israel Tax Authority approved so it's not an option, are there any Linux friendly options or will they have to have a windows machine in the house again (I switched them to all linux + 1 dos about 1-1.5 years ago). Thanks, Eliyahu - אליהו ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: ITA approved accounting software that runs on linux
Hi Eliyahu, I wonder: Will Hashavshevet run on FreeDOS? Theoretically, you could buy a new machine, install FreeDOS as the OS and copy the Hashavshevet DOS files to it... Could you give it a try and let us all know? Amichai. 2014-02-10 11:42 GMT+02:00 vordoo vor...@yahoo.com: Hi, Hopefully you will get or find a striate answer but as I follow this question for a long time with no actionable resoles I would: 1. Rephrase the question to: Is anyone hear using or knows someone who uses a linux desktop application (not a web based site) for an IL business accounting? 2. Consider using the old windows program in a virtual machine, it maybe even better then the present setup, as you can access it from other PCs in the network. *** you may need to make sure more then one concoction is not aloud, depending on the original software design ***. HTH, :-) On 2014-02-10 00:16, E.S. Rosenberg wrote: Hi all, I know this subject has been dealt with in the past but since the field is fluid I'm bringing it up again. A friend of mine manages the books for several zedaka funds, currently he still does this on an old DOS machine running chashavshevet, but the machine is starting to display some potential signs of problems so he is starting to look at other solutions. Sadly (but understandably) gnucash is not Israel Tax Authority approved so it's not an option, are there any Linux friendly options or will they have to have a windows machine in the house again (I switched them to all linux + 1 dos about 1-1.5 years ago). Thanks, Eliyahu - אליהו ___ Linux-il mailing listlinux...@cs.huji.ac.ilhttp://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: ITA approved accounting software that runs on linux
The question is not if it will run under FreeDOS, but if it will be usable under FreeDOS. How will you back it up? The old machine probably had a floppy drive. I don't think that's a solution you want to stick to. In any case, you can always run it under VirtualBox and then backup the virtual HD file. You can even use the original DOS if you want. In fact you can create a disk image from the original HD and move it to the virtual machine. Another question is if Hashavshevet has a dongle (copy-protection). If yes, what type (parallel port?) and how these can be supported. I'm not sure you can even find a motherboard with an on-board true parallel port anymore. a USB to parallel adapter may not be compatible with copy protected programs that expects to access the parallel port via the original I/O locations in the PC memory map. This may be of help: http://www-user.tu-chemnitz.de/~heha/bastelecke/Rund%20um%20den%20PC/USB2LPT/ul-15.en.htm Udi On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 11:53 AM, Amichai Rotman amic...@iglu.org.ilwrote: Hi Eliyahu, I wonder: Will Hashavshevet run on FreeDOS? Theoretically, you could buy a new machine, install FreeDOS as the OS and copy the Hashavshevet DOS files to it... Could you give it a try and let us all know? Amichai. 2014-02-10 11:42 GMT+02:00 vordoo vor...@yahoo.com: Hi, Hopefully you will get or find a striate answer but as I follow this question for a long time with no actionable resoles I would: 1. Rephrase the question to: Is anyone hear using or knows someone who uses a linux desktop application (not a web based site) for an IL business accounting? 2. Consider using the old windows program in a virtual machine, it maybe even better then the present setup, as you can access it from other PCs in the network. *** you may need to make sure more then one concoction is not aloud, depending on the original software design ***. HTH, :-) On 2014-02-10 00:16, E.S. Rosenberg wrote: Hi all, I know this subject has been dealt with in the past but since the field is fluid I'm bringing it up again. A friend of mine manages the books for several zedaka funds, currently he still does this on an old DOS machine running chashavshevet, but the machine is starting to display some potential signs of problems so he is starting to look at other solutions. Sadly (but understandably) gnucash is not Israel Tax Authority approved so it's not an option, are there any Linux friendly options or will they have to have a windows machine in the house again (I switched them to all linux + 1 dos about 1-1.5 years ago). Thanks, Eliyahu - אליהו ___ Linux-il mailing listlinux...@cs.huji.ac.ilhttp://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: ITA approved accounting software that runs on linux
It may very well be chashavshevet and not the computer that is starting to flake out, he has to still try stuff, but since chashavshevet are unwilling to give any form of support on it anymore he is now really starting to think he needs to replace it... IIRC I may have gotten it working on dosbox years ago just as a testcase to move him to linux but at the time he didn't want to rock the boat, now I would have to see if I can duplicate that again, but that still doesn't solve the problem if it's chashavshevet and not the computer. I would love to use a desktop application instead of a website but I can imagine that unless some body wants to release signed versions of gnucash that sign the files to guarantee they were only used in the approved builds ITA won't like it Though I'm sure people like Ori who have interacted with ITA and know what they demand can shed more light on that side then me... Regards, Eliyahu - אליהו 2014-02-10 12:08 GMT+02:00 Udi Finkelstein linux...@udif.com: The question is not if it will run under FreeDOS, but if it will be usable under FreeDOS. How will you back it up? The old machine probably had a floppy drive. I don't think that's a solution you want to stick to. In any case, you can always run it under VirtualBox and then backup the virtual HD file. You can even use the original DOS if you want. In fact you can create a disk image from the original HD and move it to the virtual machine. Another question is if Hashavshevet has a dongle (copy-protection). If yes, what type (parallel port?) and how these can be supported. I'm not sure you can even find a motherboard with an on-board true parallel port anymore. a USB to parallel adapter may not be compatible with copy protected programs that expects to access the parallel port via the original I/O locations in the PC memory map. This may be of help: http://www-user.tu-chemnitz.de/~heha/bastelecke/Rund%20um%20den%20PC/USB2LPT/ul-15.en.htm Udi On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 11:53 AM, Amichai Rotman amic...@iglu.org.ilwrote: Hi Eliyahu, I wonder: Will Hashavshevet run on FreeDOS? Theoretically, you could buy a new machine, install FreeDOS as the OS and copy the Hashavshevet DOS files to it... Could you give it a try and let us all know? Amichai. 2014-02-10 11:42 GMT+02:00 vordoo vor...@yahoo.com: Hi, Hopefully you will get or find a striate answer but as I follow this question for a long time with no actionable resoles I would: 1. Rephrase the question to: Is anyone hear using or knows someone who uses a linux desktop application (not a web based site) for an IL business accounting? 2. Consider using the old windows program in a virtual machine, it maybe even better then the present setup, as you can access it from other PCs in the network. *** you may need to make sure more then one concoction is not aloud, depending on the original software design ***. HTH, :-) On 2014-02-10 00:16, E.S. Rosenberg wrote: Hi all, I know this subject has been dealt with in the past but since the field is fluid I'm bringing it up again. A friend of mine manages the books for several zedaka funds, currently he still does this on an old DOS machine running chashavshevet, but the machine is starting to display some potential signs of problems so he is starting to look at other solutions. Sadly (but understandably) gnucash is not Israel Tax Authority approved so it's not an option, are there any Linux friendly options or will they have to have a windows machine in the house again (I switched them to all linux + 1 dos about 1-1.5 years ago). Thanks, Eliyahu - אליהו ___ Linux-il mailing listlinux...@cs.huji.ac.ilhttp://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: ITA approved accounting software that runs on linux
On 2014-02-10 12:08, Udi Finkelstein wrote: Another question is if Hashavshevet has a dongle (copy-protection). If yes, what type (parallel port?) and how these can be supported. You may have better luck with KVM or vmware regarding this issue. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: ITA approved accounting software that runs on linux
Anyone know if moneydance is approved? (I remember I looked at it years ago for someone else as an alternative to QuickBooks but that never worked out because something went wrong with the import) Thanks, Eliyahu - אליהו 2014-02-10 18:44 GMT+02:00 vordoo vor...@yahoo.com: On 2014-02-10 12:08, Udi Finkelstein wrote: Another question is if Hashavshevet has a dongle (copy-protection). If yes, what type (parallel port?) and how these can be supported. You may have better luck with KVM or vmware regarding this issue. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
ITA approved accounting software that runs on linux
Hi all, I know this subject has been dealt with in the past but since the field is fluid I'm bringing it up again. A friend of mine manages the books for several zedaka funds, currently he still does this on an old DOS machine running chashavshevet, but the machine is starting to display some potential signs of problems so he is starting to look at other solutions. Sadly (but understandably) gnucash is not Israel Tax Authority approved so it's not an option, are there any Linux friendly options or will they have to have a windows machine in the house again (I switched them to all linux + 1 dos about 1-1.5 years ago). Thanks, Eliyahu - אליהו ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: accounting software *free open source*
2013/7/7 Ori Idan o...@helicontech.co.il: On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 1:53 AM, Geoffrey S. Mendelson geoffreymendel...@gmail.com wrote: On 7/7/2013 1:20 AM, Micha Feigin wrote: On the other hand as memory serves, you can run your books using an open source software and then submit the printouts to a certified accounted to make a legal report. You may need to work with generic receipts in parallel though. As it was explained to me by my accountant, the tax authorities don't care how you keep YOUR books, they only care that the submissions to them are done properly. Properly means that an accepted (certified?) program is used and that the data was entered by a level 3 (starts at 1) certified bookkeeper or a certified public accountant (CPA). In real terms this means for small business the data is sent to your accountant and they (or their certified bookkeeper) enters it into their program on their computer and submits that to the tax authorities. At that point the responsibility for the data being entered properly and the program being a legal one is borne by your accountant and not you. IMHO this is preferable because my experience in being an independent consultant, the owner of a small consulting firm, and involved with startups over various times, is that any money spent paying a professional to keep your books and prepare your tax returns is well worth it. YMMV. Most accountants will accept data in XLS (Excel spreadsheet format), so you can enter the data in an Excel spreadsheet and send them the file. I assume that an Excel spreadsheet created and maintained by OpenOffice would be acceptable to them. Geoff. Tax authorities has nothing against OSS software and they already gave approval to OSS software twice (Drorit, my software and it's fork Linet, both GPL). The real truth is that they only ask to see several things: 1. Invoices can not be deleted and numbered sequentially without repeating. 2. No simple ability to delete transcations 3. Output of what they call Open Format files, these are files with all transactions in a special format they require. That is all, no question about OSS or not. There was a debate last time they registered Linet and they agreed to register it so they have nothing against OSS. GNUCASH can not be registered since it can not output Open Format files. Note that I have good experience and knowledge about the subject as I make a living out of Accounting software. I have written several software packages and also consult business about the same. Both drorit and linet run server side, gnucash runs on my computer and the tax authority has no way of knowing whether I doctored my version of gnucash. Even with drorit and linet, will the tax authority accept it if I install it on my server (and as a result have full control over all the demands you listed) or did they only approve the version running on company X's servers? Logically it seems only the second would be the case... Regards, Eliyahu - אליהו -- Ori Idan ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: accounting software *free open source*
On 7/7/2013 4:51 AM, Ori Idan wrote: Tax authorities has nothing against OSS software and they already gave approval to OSS software twice (Drorit, my software and it's fork Linet, both GPL). I never said anything about FOSS, what I was commenting on was the requirement to have either be a CPA or a have a level 3 bookkeeper certificate in order to be legally able to enter the data into you approved (Open source or not) program. Has that restriction been lifted? Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM/KBUH7245/KBUW5379 -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM/KBUH7245/KBUW5379 ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: accounting software *free open source*
re:all 2013/7/7 Ori Idan o...@helicontech.co.il: On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 1:53 AM, Geoffrey S. Mendelson geoffreymendel...@gmail.com wrote: On 7/7/2013 1:20 AM, Micha Feigin wrote: On the other hand as memory serves, you can run your books using an open source software and then submit the printouts to a certified accounted to make a legal report. You may need to work with generic receipts in parallel though. As it was explained to me by my accountant, the tax authorities don't care how you keep YOUR books, they only care that the submissions to them are done properly. Properly means that an accepted (certified?) program is used and that the data was entered by a level 3 (starts at 1) certified bookkeeper or a certified public accountant (CPA). In real terms this means for small business the data is sent to your accountant and they (or their certified bookkeeper) enters it into their program on their computer and submits that to the tax authorities. At that point the responsibility for the data being entered properly and the program being a legal one is borne by your accountant and not you. IMHO this is preferable because my experience in being an independent consultant, the owner of a small consulting firm, and involved with startups over various times, is that any money spent paying a professional to keep your books and prepare your tax returns is well worth it. YMMV. Most accountants will accept data in XLS (Excel spreadsheet format), so you can enter the data in an Excel spreadsheet and send them the file. I assume that an Excel spreadsheet created and maintained by OpenOffice would be acceptable to them. Geoff. Tax authorities has nothing against OSS software and they already gave approval to OSS software twice (Drorit, my software and it's fork Linet, both GPL). The real truth is that they only ask to see several things: 1. Invoices can not be deleted and numbered sequentially without repeating. 2. No simple ability to delete transcations 3. Output of what they call Open Format files, these are files with all transactions in a special format they require. That is all, no question about OSS or not. There was a debate last time they registered Linet and they agreed to register it so they have nothing against OSS. GNUCASH can not be registered since it can not output Open Format files. Note that I have good experience and knowledge about the subject as I make a living out of Accounting software. I have written several software packages and also consult business about the same. Both drorit and linet run server side, gnucash runs on my computer and the tax authority has no way of knowing whether I doctored my version of gnucash. Even with drorit and linet, will the tax authority accept it if I install it on my server (and as a result have full control over all the demands you listed) or did they only approve the version running on company X's servers? Logically it seems only the second would be the case... Regards, Eliyahu - אליהו -- Ori Idan ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: accounting software *free open source*
On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 8:16 AM, E.S. Rosenberg e...@g.jct.ac.il wrote: 2013/7/7 Ori Idan o...@helicontech.co.il: On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 1:53 AM, Geoffrey S. Mendelson geoffreymendel...@gmail.com wrote: On 7/7/2013 1:20 AM, Micha Feigin wrote: On the other hand as memory serves, you can run your books using an open source software and then submit the printouts to a certified accounted to make a legal report. You may need to work with generic receipts in parallel though. As it was explained to me by my accountant, the tax authorities don't care how you keep YOUR books, they only care that the submissions to them are done properly. Properly means that an accepted (certified?) program is used and that the data was entered by a level 3 (starts at 1) certified bookkeeper or a certified public accountant (CPA). In real terms this means for small business the data is sent to your accountant and they (or their certified bookkeeper) enters it into their program on their computer and submits that to the tax authorities. At that point the responsibility for the data being entered properly and the program being a legal one is borne by your accountant and not you. IMHO this is preferable because my experience in being an independent consultant, the owner of a small consulting firm, and involved with startups over various times, is that any money spent paying a professional to keep your books and prepare your tax returns is well worth it. YMMV. Most accountants will accept data in XLS (Excel spreadsheet format), so you can enter the data in an Excel spreadsheet and send them the file. I assume that an Excel spreadsheet created and maintained by OpenOffice would be acceptable to them. Geoff. Tax authorities has nothing against OSS software and they already gave approval to OSS software twice (Drorit, my software and it's fork Linet, both GPL). The real truth is that they only ask to see several things: 1. Invoices can not be deleted and numbered sequentially without repeating. 2. No simple ability to delete transcations 3. Output of what they call Open Format files, these are files with all transactions in a special format they require. That is all, no question about OSS or not. There was a debate last time they registered Linet and they agreed to register it so they have nothing against OSS. GNUCASH can not be registered since it can not output Open Format files. Note that I have good experience and knowledge about the subject as I make a living out of Accounting software. I have written several software packages and also consult business about the same. Both drorit and linet run server side, gnucash runs on my computer and the tax authority has no way of knowing whether I doctored my version of gnucash. Even with drorit and linet, will the tax authority accept it if I install it on my server (and as a result have full control over all the demands you listed) or did they only approve the version running on company X's servers? Logically it seems only the second would be the case... Linet does not run on a server it is run locally. The request is that you can not change or delete transactions from the software itself or by a normal user. There is no request to not be able to change at all. They accept that knowledgeable user with root privileges on the system can delete transactions. -- Ori Idan ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: accounting software
On 06/07/13 08:45, Ori Idan wrote: Again you did not understand me. It is illegal to treat proforma as if it was an invoice and thus create double transactions. Since you will issue an invoice when you get the payment. Double accounting need be *either* cash based *or* commitment based. You cannot validly mix the two. That much is true. However: 1. The requirements by law to approve an invoicing system need not include accounting at all, much less make sure it conforms to any particular standard. It is true that that will not allow you to issue אישור ניהול ספרים if you are required to keep double bookkeeping, but most people who are required to do that pay someone to do it. As such, I don't think saying illegal does this justice. 2. Performa invoices transactions have three stages, instead of the more traditional two. There is the payment requirement stage (the performa invoice), the formal transaction stage (the tax invoice) and the actual payment. You are right that creating two transactions, one for the performa and one for the tax invoices, is wrong, whether it is illegal largely depends on the way the tax is calculated. If the VAT payment is calculated to the right amount at the right time, I don't see how that is a problem. Shachar ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
accounting software *free open source*
On 2013-07-04 16:45, sara fink wrote: I would like to know which accounting software (besides linet) is accepted by Israeli tax authorities? Me too, but one that is not a proprietary web site, I would like to keep my data have the option to work off-line:-) ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: accounting software
On Sat, Jul 6, 2013 at 9:05 AM, Shachar Shemesh shac...@shemesh.biz wrote: On 06/07/13 08:45, Ori Idan wrote: Again you did not understand me. It is illegal to treat proforma as if it was an invoice and thus create double transactions. Since you will issue an invoice when you get the payment. Double accounting need be *either* cash based *or* commitment based. You cannot validly mix the two. That much is true. However: 1. The requirements by law to approve an invoicing system need not include accounting at all, much less make sure it conforms to any particular standard. It is true that that will not allow you to issue אישור ניהול ספרים if you are required to keep double bookkeeping, but most people who are required to do that pay someone to do it. As such, I don't think saying illegal does this justice. 2. Performa invoices transactions have three stages, instead of the more traditional two. There is the payment requirement stage (the performa invoice), the formal transaction stage (the tax invoice) and the actual payment. You are right that creating two transactions, one for the performa and one for the tax invoices, is wrong, whether it is illegal largely depends on the way the tax is calculated. If the VAT payment is calculated to the right amount at the right time, I don't see how that is a problem. Performa invoice have two stages (the third one is the receipt). The bug Linet had was that they would record transactions the same as invoice and thus when issuing the invoice you had two monitarry tansactions while you should have had only one. So it was never balanced since if you issued an invoice on 1000 ILS, received payment of 1000 ILS The balance is 0 which is Ok. If you had the Performa recorded as transactions you would have a balance of 1000. For simplification I did not include VAT here. -- Ori Idan ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: accounting software *free open source*
2013/7/6 vordoo vor...@yahoo.com: On 2013-07-04 16:45, sara fink wrote: I would like to know which accounting software (besides linet) is accepted by Israeli tax authorities? Me too, but one that is not a proprietary web site, I would like to keep my data have the option to work off-line:-) In a similar thread someone once wrote that gnucash could never be certified by the tax authority for the reason that it is OSS and thus you could modify it to function in ways deemed illegal by the tax authorities If this is indeed the case then that is sad for us but I don't see how we can change it... Well maybe... I guess one could have an open source web platform, of which the code is vetted by the authorities but they only accept it when it's coming through the webplatform which is guaranteed to run an acceptable version. Like that your data is guaranteed since you can always download the software and your data and install it on your own server and the tax authorities still have an application that you can't change because it is running outside of your control. Regards, Eliyahu - אליהו ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: accounting software *free open source*
On 07/06/2013 05:06 PM, E.S. Rosenberg wrote: 2013/7/6 vordoo vor...@yahoo.com: On 2013-07-04 16:45, sara fink wrote: I would like to know which accounting software (besides linet) is accepted by Israeli tax authorities? Me too, but one that is not a proprietary web site, I would like to keep my data have the option to work off-line:-) In a similar thread someone once wrote that gnucash could never be certified by the tax authority for the reason that it is OSS and thus you could modify it to function in ways deemed illegal by the tax authorities If this is indeed the case then that is sad for us but I don't see how we can change it... Well maybe... I guess one could have an open source web platform, of which the code is vetted by the authorities but they only accept it when it's coming through the webplatform which is guaranteed to run an acceptable version. Like that your data is guaranteed since you can always download the software and your data and install it on your own server and the tax authorities still have an application that you can't change because it is running outside of your control. Regards, Eliyahu - אליהו From what I remember from a few years back when this discussion came up at the time, there were two problems with getting both a free and opensource application that is a legal accounting software: 1. There is a requirement is that you can't change the software (and the data) -- same problem with there is with an open GSM device by the way, where you are not allowed to distribute the firmware so that people can't make the hardware do illegal stuff. 2. The other part is the very high costs involved in getting such a software certified. I believe that it's on the order of multiple tens of thousands. This means that unless you are a very reach philanthropist you would not spend your money certifying the software. On the other hand as memory serves, you can run your books using an open source software and then submit the printouts to a certified accounted to make a legal report. You may need to work with generic receipts in parallel though. Just my 2c ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: accounting software *free open source*
On 7/7/2013 1:20 AM, Micha Feigin wrote: On the other hand as memory serves, you can run your books using an open source software and then submit the printouts to a certified accounted to make a legal report. You may need to work with generic receipts in parallel though. As it was explained to me by my accountant, the tax authorities don't care how you keep YOUR books, they only care that the submissions to them are done properly. Properly means that an accepted (certified?) program is used and that the data was entered by a level 3 (starts at 1) certified bookkeeper or a certified public accountant (CPA). In real terms this means for small business the data is sent to your accountant and they (or their certified bookkeeper) enters it into their program on their computer and submits that to the tax authorities. At that point the responsibility for the data being entered properly and the program being a legal one is borne by your accountant and not you. IMHO this is preferable because my experience in being an independent consultant, the owner of a small consulting firm, and involved with startups over various times, is that any money spent paying a professional to keep your books and prepare your tax returns is well worth it. YMMV. Most accountants will accept data in XLS (Excel spreadsheet format), so you can enter the data in an Excel spreadsheet and send them the file. I assume that an Excel spreadsheet created and maintained by OpenOffice would be acceptable to them. Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM/KBUH7245/KBUW5379 ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: accounting software *free open source*
On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 1:53 AM, Geoffrey S. Mendelson geoffreymendel...@gmail.com wrote: On 7/7/2013 1:20 AM, Micha Feigin wrote: On the other hand as memory serves, you can run your books using an open source software and then submit the printouts to a certified accounted to make a legal report. You may need to work with generic receipts in parallel though. As it was explained to me by my accountant, the tax authorities don't care how you keep YOUR books, they only care that the submissions to them are done properly. Properly means that an accepted (certified?) program is used and that the data was entered by a level 3 (starts at 1) certified bookkeeper or a certified public accountant (CPA). In real terms this means for small business the data is sent to your accountant and they (or their certified bookkeeper) enters it into their program on their computer and submits that to the tax authorities. At that point the responsibility for the data being entered properly and the program being a legal one is borne by your accountant and not you. IMHO this is preferable because my experience in being an independent consultant, the owner of a small consulting firm, and involved with startups over various times, is that any money spent paying a professional to keep your books and prepare your tax returns is well worth it. YMMV. Most accountants will accept data in XLS (Excel spreadsheet format), so you can enter the data in an Excel spreadsheet and send them the file. I assume that an Excel spreadsheet created and maintained by OpenOffice would be acceptable to them. Geoff. Tax authorities has nothing against OSS software and they already gave approval to OSS software twice (Drorit, my software and it's fork Linet, both GPL). The real truth is that they only ask to see several things: 1. Invoices can not be deleted and numbered sequentially without repeating. 2. No simple ability to delete transcations 3. Output of what they call Open Format files, these are files with all transactions in a special format they require. That is all, no question about OSS or not. There was a debate last time they registered Linet and they agreed to register it so they have nothing against OSS. GNUCASH can not be registered since it can not output Open Format files. Note that I have good experience and knowledge about the subject as I make a living out of Accounting software. I have written several software packages and also consult business about the same. -- Ori Idan ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: accounting software
Thanks. Now the question is, if freelance can connect to other software On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 5:34 PM, Ori Idan o...@helicontech.co.il wrote: There are several software packages I wrote that are all accepted. The best one I can recommend is: http://www.ifreelance.co.il Free of charge for most cases. Also has an API for use from ecommerece websites. Can send invoices by mail (not free, requires purchase of digital signature for 100 ILS a year) Linet is a fork of my Drorit software and unfortunately copied all the bugs I had and add more of their own. Although it is accepted by the Tax authorities it has few bugs that render it useless such as creating transactions for non tax invoice (Heshbonit Iska) I wonder How they got their tax certificate with this bug since it is illegal. However I heard that in recent version they fixed it. -- Ori Idan On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 5:20 PM, Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda ladyp...@gmail.comwrote: http://www.ucan2.co.il/ works with Linux. On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 4:45 PM, sara fink sara.f...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Everyone I would like to know which accounting software (besides linet) is accepted by Israeli tax authorities? ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il -- Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda. http://ladypine.org ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: accounting software
ifreelance can export most of it's reports as CSV so I guess it may be enough to connect to other software. On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 3:54 PM, sara fink sara.f...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks. Now the question is, if freelance can connect to other software On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 5:34 PM, Ori Idan o...@helicontech.co.il wrote: There are several software packages I wrote that are all accepted. The best one I can recommend is: http://www.ifreelance.co.il Free of charge for most cases. Also has an API for use from ecommerece websites. Can send invoices by mail (not free, requires purchase of digital signature for 100 ILS a year) Linet is a fork of my Drorit software and unfortunately copied all the bugs I had and add more of their own. Although it is accepted by the Tax authorities it has few bugs that render it useless such as creating transactions for non tax invoice (Heshbonit Iska) I wonder How they got their tax certificate with this bug since it is illegal. However I heard that in recent version they fixed it. -- Ori Idan On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 5:20 PM, Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda ladyp...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.ucan2.co.il/ works with Linux. On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 4:45 PM, sara fink sara.f...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Everyone I would like to know which accounting software (besides linet) is accepted by Israeli tax authorities? ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il -- Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda. http://ladypine.org ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: accounting software
Sara, You might also consider GeeeX CRM [1]. It's based on vTiger CRM but the Hebrew translation was redone and an Invoice module was written in, authorized by the Israeli Revenue Service. [1] http://free.geeex.net Amichai. On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 4:23 PM, Ori Idan o...@helicontech.co.il wrote: ifreelance can export most of it's reports as CSV so I guess it may be enough to connect to other software. On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 3:54 PM, sara fink sara.f...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks. Now the question is, if freelance can connect to other software On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 5:34 PM, Ori Idan o...@helicontech.co.il wrote: There are several software packages I wrote that are all accepted. The best one I can recommend is: http://www.ifreelance.co.il Free of charge for most cases. Also has an API for use from ecommerece websites. Can send invoices by mail (not free, requires purchase of digital signature for 100 ILS a year) Linet is a fork of my Drorit software and unfortunately copied all the bugs I had and add more of their own. Although it is accepted by the Tax authorities it has few bugs that render it useless such as creating transactions for non tax invoice (Heshbonit Iska) I wonder How they got their tax certificate with this bug since it is illegal. However I heard that in recent version they fixed it. -- Ori Idan On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 5:20 PM, Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda ladyp...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.ucan2.co.il/ works with Linux. On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 4:45 PM, sara fink sara.f...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Everyone I would like to know which accounting software (besides linet) is accepted by Israeli tax authorities? ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il -- Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda. http://ladypine.org ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: accounting software
The program has to connect to a hotel management program (hoteldroid) and has to provide receipts. On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 4:54 PM, Amichai Rotman amic...@iglu.org.il wrote: Sara, You might also consider GeeeX CRM [1]. It's based on vTiger CRM but the Hebrew translation was redone and an Invoice module was written in, authorized by the Israeli Revenue Service. [1] http://free.geeex.net Amichai. On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 4:23 PM, Ori Idan o...@helicontech.co.il wrote: ifreelance can export most of it's reports as CSV so I guess it may be enough to connect to other software. On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 3:54 PM, sara fink sara.f...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks. Now the question is, if freelance can connect to other software On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 5:34 PM, Ori Idan o...@helicontech.co.il wrote: There are several software packages I wrote that are all accepted. The best one I can recommend is: http://www.ifreelance.co.il Free of charge for most cases. Also has an API for use from ecommerece websites. Can send invoices by mail (not free, requires purchase of digital signature for 100 ILS a year) Linet is a fork of my Drorit software and unfortunately copied all the bugs I had and add more of their own. Although it is accepted by the Tax authorities it has few bugs that render it useless such as creating transactions for non tax invoice (Heshbonit Iska) I wonder How they got their tax certificate with this bug since it is illegal. However I heard that in recent version they fixed it. -- Ori Idan On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 5:20 PM, Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda ladyp...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.ucan2.co.il/ works with Linux. On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 4:45 PM, sara fink sara.f...@gmail.comwrote: Hello Everyone I would like to know which accounting software (besides linet) is accepted by Israeli tax authorities? ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il -- Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda. http://ladypine.org ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: accounting software
You can use the API to issue the receipts from any other software. On Sat, Jul 6, 2013 at 1:25 AM, sara fink sara.f...@gmail.com wrote: The program has to connect to a hotel management program (hoteldroid) and has to provide receipts. On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 4:54 PM, Amichai Rotman amic...@iglu.org.ilwrote: Sara, You might also consider GeeeX CRM [1]. It's based on vTiger CRM but the Hebrew translation was redone and an Invoice module was written in, authorized by the Israeli Revenue Service. [1] http://free.geeex.net Amichai. On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 4:23 PM, Ori Idan o...@helicontech.co.il wrote: ifreelance can export most of it's reports as CSV so I guess it may be enough to connect to other software. On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 3:54 PM, sara fink sara.f...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks. Now the question is, if freelance can connect to other software On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 5:34 PM, Ori Idan o...@helicontech.co.il wrote: There are several software packages I wrote that are all accepted. The best one I can recommend is: http://www.ifreelance.co.il Free of charge for most cases. Also has an API for use from ecommerece websites. Can send invoices by mail (not free, requires purchase of digital signature for 100 ILS a year) Linet is a fork of my Drorit software and unfortunately copied all the bugs I had and add more of their own. Although it is accepted by the Tax authorities it has few bugs that render it useless such as creating transactions for non tax invoice (Heshbonit Iska) I wonder How they got their tax certificate with this bug since it is illegal. However I heard that in recent version they fixed it. -- Ori Idan On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 5:20 PM, Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda ladyp...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.ucan2.co.il/ works with Linux. On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 4:45 PM, sara fink sara.f...@gmail.comwrote: Hello Everyone I would like to know which accounting software (besides linet) is accepted by Israeli tax authorities? ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il -- Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda. http://ladypine.org ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: accounting software
On 04/07/13 17:34, Ori Idan wrote: There are several software packages I wrote that are all accepted. The best one I can recommend is: http://www.ifreelance.co.il Free of charge for most cases. Also has an API for use from ecommerece websites. Can send invoices by mail (not free, requires purchase of digital signature for 100 ILS a year) Linet is a fork of my Drorit software and unfortunately copied all the bugs I had and add more of their own. Although it is accepted by the Tax authorities it has few bugs that render it useless such as creating transactions for non tax invoice (Heshbonit Iska) I wonder How they got their tax certificate with this bug since it is illegal. How do you figure that it is illegal? If it is illegal, why did the Knesset go to all this bother to pass a law that *requires* clients to accept a performa invoice from small businesses? They even did some prime time TV advertising for issuing performa invoices instead of tax invoices![1] Are you suggesting my accounting program should not track payment requests for which no tax is due until actual payments? Shachar 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjombaz0lrw ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: accounting software
On Sat, Jul 6, 2013 at 7:06 AM, Shachar Shemesh shac...@shemesh.biz wrote: On 04/07/13 17:34, Ori Idan wrote: There are several software packages I wrote that are all accepted. The best one I can recommend is: http://www.ifreelance.co.il Free of charge for most cases. Also has an API for use from ecommerece websites. Can send invoices by mail (not free, requires purchase of digital signature for 100 ILS a year) Linet is a fork of my Drorit software and unfortunately copied all the bugs I had and add more of their own. Although it is accepted by the Tax authorities it has few bugs that render it useless such as creating transactions for non tax invoice (Heshbonit Iska) I wonder How they got their tax certificate with this bug since it is illegal. How do you figure that it is illegal? If it is illegal, why did the Knesset go to all this bother to pass a law that *requires* clients to accept a performa invoice from small businesses? Proforma invoice by itself is legal. What is illegal is creating transactions as it if was an invoice. -- Ori Idan ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: accounting software
On 06/07/13 08:33, Ori Idan wrote: On Sat, Jul 6, 2013 at 7:06 AM, Shachar Shemesh shac...@shemesh.biz mailto:shac...@shemesh.biz wrote: On 04/07/13 17:34, Ori Idan wrote: There are several software packages I wrote that are all accepted. The best one I can recommend is: http://www.ifreelance.co.il Free of charge for most cases. Also has an API for use from ecommerece websites. Can send invoices by mail (not free, requires purchase of digital signature for 100 ILS a year) Linet is a fork of my Drorit software and unfortunately copied all the bugs I had and add more of their own. Although it is accepted by the Tax authorities it has few bugs that render it useless such as creating transactions for non tax invoice (Heshbonit Iska) I wonder How they got their tax certificate with this bug since it is illegal. How do you figure that it is illegal? If it is illegal, why did the Knesset go to all this bother to pass a law that *requires* clients to accept a performa invoice from small businesses? Proforma invoice by itself is legal. What is illegal is creating transactions as it if was an invoice. Are you saying it is illegal to create an accounting program that tracks payment done על בסיס מזומן? If so, how is a big company that receives a performa invoice supposed to track it? Shachar -- Ori Idan ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: accounting software
On Sat, Jul 6, 2013 at 8:41 AM, Shachar Shemesh shac...@shemesh.biz wrote: On 06/07/13 08:33, Ori Idan wrote: On Sat, Jul 6, 2013 at 7:06 AM, Shachar Shemesh shac...@shemesh.bizwrote: On 04/07/13 17:34, Ori Idan wrote: There are several software packages I wrote that are all accepted. The best one I can recommend is: http://www.ifreelance.co.il Free of charge for most cases. Also has an API for use from ecommerece websites. Can send invoices by mail (not free, requires purchase of digital signature for 100 ILS a year) Linet is a fork of my Drorit software and unfortunately copied all the bugs I had and add more of their own. Although it is accepted by the Tax authorities it has few bugs that render it useless such as creating transactions for non tax invoice (Heshbonit Iska) I wonder How they got their tax certificate with this bug since it is illegal. How do you figure that it is illegal? If it is illegal, why did the Knesset go to all this bother to pass a law that *requires* clients to accept a performa invoice from small businesses? Proforma invoice by itself is legal. What is illegal is creating transactions as it if was an invoice. Are you saying it is illegal to create an accounting program that tracks payment done על בסיס מזומן? If so, how is a big company that receives a performa invoice supposed to track it? Again you did not understand me. It is illegal to treat proforma as if it was an invoice and thus create double transactions. Since you will issue an invoice when you get the payment. -- Ori Idan ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
accounting software
Hello Everyone I would like to know which accounting software (besides linet) is accepted by Israeli tax authorities? ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: accounting software
http://www.ucan2.co.il/ works with Linux. On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 4:45 PM, sara fink sara.f...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Everyone I would like to know which accounting software (besides linet) is accepted by Israeli tax authorities? ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il -- Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda. http://ladypine.org ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: accounting software
There are several software packages I wrote that are all accepted. The best one I can recommend is: http://www.ifreelance.co.il Free of charge for most cases. Also has an API for use from ecommerece websites. Can send invoices by mail (not free, requires purchase of digital signature for 100 ILS a year) Linet is a fork of my Drorit software and unfortunately copied all the bugs I had and add more of their own. Although it is accepted by the Tax authorities it has few bugs that render it useless such as creating transactions for non tax invoice (Heshbonit Iska) I wonder How they got their tax certificate with this bug since it is illegal. However I heard that in recent version they fixed it. -- Ori Idan On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 5:20 PM, Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda ladyp...@gmail.comwrote: http://www.ucan2.co.il/ works with Linux. On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 4:45 PM, sara fink sara.f...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Everyone I would like to know which accounting software (besides linet) is accepted by Israeli tax authorities? ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il -- Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda. http://ladypine.org ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Israel approved Accounting software on Linux
Does anyone have any experience in running some accounting software (one that is approved by the authorities to print invoices) on a Linux? I guess that they all require Windows, so this would be under wine, but still - does anyone have it working? Thanks, -- Yuval Hager [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Israel approved Accounting software on Linux
Drorit software will soon be approved (I hope) and it runs under Linux. It is written in PHP and can actually be run on any operating system supporting PHP. I tested it only on Linux. -- Ori Idan On 9/5/07, Yuval Hager [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone have any experience in running some accounting software (one that is approved by the authorities to print invoices) on a Linux? I guess that they all require Windows, so this would be under wine, but still - does anyone have it working? Thanks, -- Yuval Hager [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Israel approved Accounting software on Linux
ביום רביעי, 5 בספטמבר 2007, נכתב על ידי Ori Idan: Drorit software will soon be approved (I hope) and it runs under Linux. It is written in PHP and can actually be run on any operating system supporting PHP. I tested it only on Linux. Thanks! It's great to know we have a FOSS solution :) Thanks for the work you put in. I am also interested to know if there are other software that work on Linux in this domain. I would like to install Linux in an office, and they might not take my advice for accounting software, so I would like to make sure they have the choice. --y signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Israel approved Accounting software on Linux
Hi, On 05/09/07, Ori Idan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Drorit software will soon be approved (I hope) and it runs under Linux. It is written in PHP and can actually be run on any operating system supporting PHP. I tested it only on Linux. Any chance that you're going to update the web page? I've looked at the SF web project page (the homepage), and it severely lacks lots of things like Screenshots, more detailed info about the features, does it support things like Osek Patur and seriously, if you're planning to make any business selling this software, I think IMHO that you should consult a professional marketer - you're doing all the steps to not sell your solution. I'm not trying to flame, I'm just giving an advice. Thanks, Hetz -- Skepticism is the lazy person's default position. my blog (hebrew): http://benhamo.org = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Israel approved Accounting software on Linux
You are right. SF serves now only as CVS for the project and needs to be updated. As for marketing, I have a partner who is much better then me in marketing, however not a marketer, he is a tax advisor and thus gives the professional accounting side. From his opinion (and I agree) we should not do anything regarding selling the software until it is approved. Do not fear, although we are going to sell it, it is GPL and will stay GPL, which means most of the money will be made from supporting and customizing and not direct sale, since one can always download the software from the public CVS. -- Ori Idan On 9/6/07, Hetz Ben Hamo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, On 05/09/07, Ori Idan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Drorit software will soon be approved (I hope) and it runs under Linux. It is written in PHP and can actually be run on any operating system supporting PHP. I tested it only on Linux. Any chance that you're going to update the web page? I've looked at the SF web project page (the homepage), and it severely lacks lots of things like Screenshots, more detailed info about the features, does it support things like Osek Patur and seriously, if you're planning to make any business selling this software, I think IMHO that you should consult a professional marketer - you're doing all the steps to not sell your solution. I'm not trying to flame, I'm just giving an advice. Thanks, Hetz -- Skepticism is the lazy person's default position. my blog (hebrew): http://benhamo.org
Re: FOSS accounting software
On Sunday, 8 בApril 2007 00:00, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote: First of all, the probablility in the real world of someone being able to verify the source code is clean is not very large. Few people can actually read source code to the point that a hidden exploit is not present. Even those that can, rarely do so. Maybe, but the probability is still higher than in a closed source. Have you looked at the source code for any of the open source applications you run? Not little bits here and there, but the entire program? Usually only the little bits that interest me personally, maybe other people look at other bits (or maybe not). However, our mythical attacker does not know which bits and pieces would be read by someone. So basically we really play a probability game here. How many people have read the source of a typical proprietary application? If you lived in the corporate world, you already know the answer... There was for example a trojan placed in one of the more common TCP/IP utilities (I forget which it was, either traceroute or tcpdump) and it even made it to a few distributions of various operating systems. Good example. Let's examine some of the facts: http://www.cert.org/advisories/CA-2002-30.html ...These modified distributions began to appear in downloads from the HTTP server www.tcpdump.org on or around Nov 11 2002 10:14:00 GMT. The tcpdump development team disabled download of the distributions containing the Trojan horse on Nov 13 2002 15:05:19 GMT. Hmmm... roughly *two days* to discovery and damage control. Do you think a proprietary application would have scored better? I'll feed you with a better example: http://www.cert.org/advisories/CA-2001-01.html Interbase Server Contains Compiled-in Back Door Account This backdoor took *6 months* to be discovered since the open-sourcing of this database (now called Firebird). This is a very long time... However, it was discovered that the backdoor was inserted to the codebase in 1994. Yes that's *six years* in which the database was proprietary and was sold by a respectable company (Borland) to respectable customers (e.g: Motorola, Nokia, Boeing and the Boston Stock Exchange). With closed source programs where the source code and the distribution of compiled programs is tightly controlled, the skill level required of a person modifiying it for nefareous purposes is much higher. Eastern Eggs -- do you know any big proprietary application without ones? Care to explain how these filter into the code in a tightly controlled environment? Don't make us laugh. Geoff, maybe development process was tightly controlled in 60's but it surely ain't even close to this now. In the crazy race for time-to-market almost no one care about real bugs (as long as they are not show stoppers). For most managers security related bugs look even more vague and hypothetical problem that only paranoids are worried about unless it is already on CNN. Cheers, -- Oron Peled Voice/Fax: +972-4-8228492 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.actcom.co.il/~oron ICQ UIN: 16527398 .. Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FOSS accounting software
On 08/04/07, Oron Peled [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Eastern Eggs -- do you know any big proprietary application without ones? Care to explain how these filter into the code in a tightly controlled environment? Don't make us laugh. Geoff, maybe development process was tightly controlled in 60's but it surely ain't even close to this now. In the crazy race for time-to-market almost no one care about real bugs (as long as they are not show stoppers). For most managers security related bugs look even more vague and hypothetical problem that only paranoids are worried about unless it is already on CNN. I must share with you another story - just last week I talked to a guy who programmed the real-time code in SHDSL cards many years ago. They had very tight CPU and memory constraints but they HAD to put in some easter egg. One of the requirements or limitations in the corporate he worked for (a very large and well known corporate) was that it won't download porn so they embedded ascii porn on the card (since it's embedded it's not downloaded). If you get into the debug interface and type 69 in some command there you'll get screen fulls of ascii porn. The card is sold and installed by the thousands every day today but nobody found about this egg so far (and the guy who wrote it says that there is no chance of it being found since it can only be accessed through the debug interface and the ascii images are encrypted so a simple memory hex dump won't reveal anything obvious about them). BTW - this guy got around to talk to a support engineer who supports this card after a few years and the engineer told him there are still zero bugs filed against this product (as a developer, I consider this to be the ultimate measure that a programmer knows what he's doing). Talk about proprietary software --Amos
Re: FOSS accounting software
On Sun, Apr 08, 2007 at 07:46:12PM +1000, Amos Shapira wrote: I must share with you another story - just last week I talked to a guy who programmed the real-time code in SHDSL cards many years ago. They had very tight CPU and memory constraints but they HAD to put in some easter egg. One of the requirements or limitations in the corporate he worked for (a very large and well known corporate) was that it won't download porn so they embedded ascii porn on the card (since it's embedded it's not downloaded). Marc, do you remember the PC BIOS upgrade you downloaded almost 10 years ago the included in plain text SHEMA YISRAEL A.? I'm sure anyone a few kilometers to the east of us would have loved seeing that. :-) Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel [EMAIL PROTECTED] N3OWJ/4X1GM IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 Fax ONLY: 972-2-648-1443 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838 Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/ = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FOSS accounting software
On Sunday 08 April 2007, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote: On Fri, Apr 06, 2007 at 11:53:45PM +0300, Dan Armak wrote: On Friday 06 April 2007, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote: I have a philosophical question. With open source software how do you make sure that the copy you are running was not modified to send your accounting data to some data collection site? You seem to be implying that there's a way to do this with proprietary software that doesn't work for free software. Is there? No, but there is a much greater risk of it happening with open source software. First of all, the probablility in the real world of someone being able to verify the source code is clean is not very large. Few people can actually read source code to the point that a hidden exploit is not present. Even those that can, rarely do so. Have you looked at the source code for any of the open source applications you run? Not little bits here and there, but the entire program? The probability of any one person verifying an entire codebase is very low - I've certainly never done so. But that of some people doing it collectively or even just as 'patchwork' can be high. In any project with more than one or two committers, there will be people watching the commit log, there will be people looking through the code to learn how to extend it. Really important projects will come under the scrutiny of dedicated audit teams. Anyway, the probability of someone verifying that non-open-source code is clean is a lot smaller yet. Both the ease of performing a complete-code audit, and the likelihood of one occuring for widely used programs, are higher for open source than for proprietary code. With open source software it becomes much easier for an unscrupulous person to modify the downloadable source code or ceate a mirror of the compiled program with a bug. There was for example a trojan placed in one of the more common TCP/IP utilities (I forget which it was, either traceroute or tcpdump) and it even made it to a few distributions of various operating systems. Of course it's easier to make a mirror with a trojan for an open source app, because proprietary software disallows mirrors.But that doesn't automatically get the trojan to the end users. I looked up the tcpdump case. The CERT advisory[1] says an intruder to tcpdump.org inserted the trojan into the release tarball, and it was then copied to various mirrors. tcpdump installations began to fail for from-source Gentoo users, and some of them[2] spent the couple of minutes needed to diff the good and bad tarballs. This revealed a small change to the code which even on first inspection is suspicious, so they investigated further, and/or alerted upstream. [1] http://www.cert.org/advisories/CA-2002-30.html [2] http://www.hlug.org/trojan/ The whole issue was widely known and fixed in a few days. Apparently no major distributions' packages were affected. That's an example of a good immune response: the correct security system (release tarball hashes) both stopped the trojan and alerted people to it. Of course the system isn't perfect. tcpdump is a big project. When I install some small one-off utility I'd never heard of before, can I really trust that the distro's packager verified a GPG signature on the tarball he was testing, and got the signing GPG key out of band? For that matter, can I trust the upstream committers to keep that key and their development workstations separate from, and at least as secure as, the site where they publish releases? Can I even trust the good intentions of the main committers of this small project - not just that they won't trojan the code themselves, but that their code is security-conscious and of high quality and that they won't try to hide bugs and vulnerabilities instead of fixing them? The answer is no - at least not for small-to-medium projects. But that's not the issue here. Proprietary software isn't better off. For the most part it's a lot worse off because the average Windows user, and the average Windows infrastructure, isn't as secure and security-minded as good open source software. Imagine if a similar trojan were inserted into wireshark - not into the source tarballs, but only into the Windows .exe release. I'm sure they publish hashes and signatures for the EXEs as well. How many Windows users check those after downloading, do you think? Not users like you (if you ever use Windows), but average tech-savvy users? With closed source programs where the source code and the distribution of compiled programs is tightly controlled, the skill level required of a person modifiying it for nefareous purposes is much higher. Not that much higher. First, trojaning a random binary is easy: that's what all viruses do, and by now there must be a huge of virus-making tools and sample code out there. Second, it's true that it's a lot harder to penetrate the distribution of official
Re: FOSS accounting software
Quoth Geoffrey S. Mendelson: Marc, do you remember the PC BIOS upgrade you downloaded almost 10 years ago the included in plain text SHEMA YISRAEL A.? I'm sure anyone a few kilometers to the east of us would have loved seeing that. :-) Yep. If I am not mistaken, it was in the BIOS fonts area... -- ---MAV Marc A. Volovic [EMAIL PROTECTED] Swiftouch, LTD +972-544-676764 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FOSS accounting software
On Fri, Apr 06, 2007 at 11:53:45PM +0300, Dan Armak wrote: On Friday 06 April 2007, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote: I have a philosophical question. With open source software how do you make sure that the copy you are running was not modified to send your accounting data to some data collection site? You seem to be implying that there's a way to do this with proprietary software that doesn't work for free software. Is there? No, but there is a much greater risk of it happening with open source software. First of all, the probablility in the real world of someone being able to verify the source code is clean is not very large. Few people can actually read source code to the point that a hidden exploit is not present. Even those that can, rarely do so. Have you looked at the source code for any of the open source applications you run? Not little bits here and there, but the entire program? With open source software it becomes much easier for an unscrupulous person to modify the downloadable source code or ceate a mirror of the compiled program with a bug. There was for example a trojan placed in one of the more common TCP/IP utilities (I forget which it was, either traceroute or tcpdump) and it even made it to a few distributions of various operating systems. With closed source programs where the source code and the distribution of compiled programs is tightly controlled, the skill level required of a person modifiying it for nefareous purposes is much higher. You can make sure the source code being compiled is the same, because it's usually signed. So you're saying the binary's correct behavior can't be deduced from an inspection of the source code followed by a test of a separately compiled binary on a system similar to yours (where the distro's packages are built). Yes. It can not. It can be verified to perform within the parameters of a test, but it can not be verified to NOT perform outside of those paramaters. In fact many programs do just that, compilers have been known to recognize benchmarks and substiute special code; the Intel C compiler recognizes usages in the Linux Kernel of GCC bugs and produces incorrect code, but the same as GCC, and so on. Changing checksums to match modified code is a time honored hacking method, I know of it being done in the 1960s and it was probably done years before. I once hid a hand crafted date check routine in the DATA portion of a Fortran program. It was assembled from data statments and then executed. Unless you knew the approriate machine code and was a Fortran whiz, you never would spot it. Doing such a thing now with C, or PERL would be simple. But if you don't trust your compiler to build correct code, or your distro's packaging process to catch backdoors, then how can you trust your libc or kernel? It's a lot bigger problem than whether some accounting software is duly certified. I normally don't care. I don't keep anything on a computer that is that sensitive. I am also not an auditor making sure that software performs as required by law and does not contain other unwanted code. I have been in the past, but am not now. Using computer programs to steal money or hide income from the tax authorities is not a new or uniquely Israeli concept. How do they check this today, for proprietary apps running on Windows? Do they have remote root access to your machine to make sure you're running the software you claim you are? Are they planning on using TPMs with RA? I have no idea. I can only assume they run some sort of virus/spyware detection program against it and then verify the actions are correct. For example, one committed, records can not be modified. Not an easy thing to lock in an open source program with an external database. More importantly, why can't they get as much information by verifying the data your app submits? After all, even with a duly certified and unmodified app the user still controls the input. The app has no more knowledge than is contained in its output. If I needed to mangle the input data to hide income, and the mangling was so complex a human couldn't do it, I'd write a separate app to do that. True but these apps are designed to be used by people with bookeeping certification, not trained programers. The concept behind them is that you enter the data, and once you verify that it is correct, it can not be changed. Then usual accounting practices are applied and checked. BTW,hiding income is probably the last thing they care about. One can hide income in many ways without a computer program. They are more likely interested in expenses. All expenses are logged, and none of it disappears. Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel [EMAIL PROTECTED] N3OWJ/4X1GM IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 Fax ONLY: 972-2-648-1443 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838 Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com
FOSS accounting software
Hi folks, do somebody know FOSS accounting software recognized in Israel? (or software that produces results close to recognized one) TIA Shimon -- Shimon Panfil = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FOSS accounting software
Hello I am currently working on such a software. http://drorit.sf.net -- Ori Idan On 4/6/07, Shimon Panfil [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi folks, do somebody know FOSS accounting software recognized in Israel? (or software that produces results close to recognized one) TIA Shimon -- Shimon Panfil = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FOSS accounting software
On Fri, Apr 06, 2007 at 11:52:24AM +0300, Ori Idan wrote: I am currently working on such a software. I have a philosophical question. With open source software how do you make sure that the copy you are running was not modified to send your accounting data to some data collection site? If you compile your own copy of the program, which is the usual way of preventing such hacks, it would not be the program that was tested and IMHO there would be no way to prove it without testing it again. How would the tax agency ascertain that the program that produced a report was in fact the certified version of the program and not a version modified in any way? Using computer programs to steal money or hide income from the tax authorities is not a new or uniquely Israeli concept. AFAIK there have only been three programs approved. Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel [EMAIL PROTECTED] N3OWJ/4X1GM IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 Fax ONLY: 972-2-648-1443 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838 Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/ = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FOSS accounting software
On 4/6/07, Geoffrey S. Mendelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Apr 06, 2007 at 11:52:24AM +0300, Ori Idan wrote: I am currently working on such a software. I have a philosophical question. With open source software how do you make sure that the copy you are running was not modified to send your accounting data to some data collection site? I am not making sure the copies are unmodified, otherwise it is not free software. I will give warranty only for an original copy. If you compile your own copy of the program, which is the usual way of preventing such hacks, it would not be the program that was tested and IMHO there would be no way to prove it without testing it again. You are right, that is why I will give warranty only for an unmodified copy. How would the tax agency ascertain that the program that produced a report was in fact the certified version of the program and not a version modified in any way? They actually don't care, when they see the report is according to the laws they do not check the software you used. If there is any reason to check they will start asking questions also about the software. Using computer programs to steal money or hide income from the tax authorities is not a new or uniquely Israeli concept. AFAIK there have only been three programs approved. Approved for what? If you are talking about accounting software in Israel, there are more then 10 I know of that where approved. However those are for DOS or Windows only. Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel [EMAIL PROTECTED] N3OWJ/4X1GM IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 Fax ONLY: 972-2-648-1443 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838 Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/ -- Ori Idan
Re: FOSS accounting software
Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote: On Fri, Apr 06, 2007 at 11:52:24AM +0300, Ori Idan wrote: I am currently working on such a software. I have a philosophical question. With open source software how do you make sure that the copy you are running was not modified to send your accounting data to some data collection site? As Ori already answered that, I just want to add that at least you can really check this software, opposed to closed source programs in which you can never know... -- Lior Kaplan [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.Guides.co.il = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FOSS accounting software
On Friday 06 April 2007, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote: I have a philosophical question. With open source software how do you make sure that the copy you are running was not modified to send your accounting data to some data collection site? You seem to be implying that there's a way to do this with proprietary software that doesn't work for free software. Is there? If you compile your own copy of the program, which is the usual way of preventing such hacks, it would not be the program that was tested and IMHO there would be no way to prove it without testing it again. You can make sure the source code being compiled is the same, because it's usually signed. So you're saying the binary's correct behavior can't be deduced from an inspection of the source code followed by a test of a separately compiled binary on a system similar to yours (where the distro's packages are built). But if you don't trust your compiler to build correct code, or your distro's packaging process to catch backdoors, then how can you trust your libc or kernel? It's a lot bigger problem than whether some accounting software is duly certified. How would the tax agency ascertain that the program that produced a report was in fact the certified version of the program and not a version modified in any way? Using computer programs to steal money or hide income from the tax authorities is not a new or uniquely Israeli concept. How do they check this today, for proprietary apps running on Windows? Do they have remote root access to your machine to make sure you're running the software you claim you are? Are they planning on using TPMs with RA? More importantly, why can't they get as much information by verifying the data your app submits? After all, even with a duly certified and unmodified app the user still controls the input. The app has no more knowledge than is contained in its output. If I needed to mangle the input data to hide income, and the mangling was so complex a human couldn't do it, I'd write a separate app to do that. -- Dan Armak = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FOSS accounting software
On 07/04/07, Dan Armak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But if you don't trust your compiler to build correct code, or your distro's packaging process to catch backdoors, then how can you trust your libc or kernel? It's a lot bigger problem than whether some accounting software is duly certified. You mean something as discussed in this gem: http://www.acm.org/classics/sep95/ ? ( :^), for the humour impaired) Cheers, --Amos
OT: accounting software for Israeli computer professionals/freelancers
Does anyone know of a good software package for managing business finances in Israel? Specifically for a computer consultant/freelancer. According to mas hacnasa the software has to be approved by them. Thanks, Ben = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: accounting software for Israeli computer professionals/freelancers
The thread has arisen here and there...Currently the only thing that comes close is drorit by Ori IdanAs far as I know it's not approved yet by the IRS. another link here - http://mirror.hamakor.org.il/archives/linux-il/01-2006/18565.htmlbest regardsLior 2006/9/4, Ben Hornedo [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Does anyone know of a good software package for managing business financesin Israel? Specifically for a computer consultant/freelancer. According tomas hacnasa the software has to be approved by them. Thanks,Ben=To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the commandecho unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ליאור קסוס , לינוויטhttp://www.linnovate.net
Re: OT: accounting software for Israeli computer professionals/freelancers
Whoops, you said good - not neccesarily free (although some of the readers here may make an argument that the terms are identical) anyway there is snoonit and a bunch of other programs which live upon the /^.*it$/ regex. I use google-spreadsheit :)Lior2006/9/4, Lior Kesos [EMAIL PROTECTED]: The thread has arisen here and there...Currently the only thing that comes close is drorit by Ori IdanAs far as I know it's not approved yet by the IRS. another link here - http://mirror.hamakor.org.il/archives/linux-il/01-2006/18565.html best regardsLior 2006/9/4, Ben Hornedo [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Does anyone know of a good software package for managing business financesin Israel? Specifically for a computer consultant/freelancer. According tomas hacnasa the software has to be approved by them. Thanks,Ben=To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the commandecho unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ליאור קסוס , לינוויטhttp://www.linnovate.net -- ליאור קסוס , לינוויטhttp://www.linnovate.net
accounting software
Hi List Is anyone aware of an accounting application for Linux that is recognized by the Israeli tax authotities? (like rivchit etc.). Many thanks Ivor = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: accounting software
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi List Is anyone aware of an accounting application for Linux that is recognized by the Israeli tax authotities? (like rivchit etc.). Many thanks Ivor What are you trying to achieve? If it's just issuing invoices, you don't actually need the Tax authorities' permission. You are just accountable to the results if you don't pick one. If you want something more elaborate, then I'm not sure what the status is. Shachar -- Shachar Shemesh Lingnu Open Source Consulting ltd. http://www.lingnu.com/ = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: accounting software
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the prompt response. I am looking for an application from which i can manage/issue both tax reciepts as well as invoices. I understand the invoicing isn't the issue, but the tax reciepts are. Thanks Ivor I am not sure what does tax receipts mean, exactly. In Israeli tax laws, receipts don't hold much legal value at all (at least for businesses that pay VAT). An invoice is proof that a transaction took place for both VAT and Income Tax authorities, and a receipt is only really used to prove that actual payment took place. Many of my clients don't even bother picking the later up, and don't care whether I issue them or not. The reason I stated the difference is because the wording of the law leaves a lot to be desired in terms of clarity. There seems to be some difference between software distributed commercially and other software, and between software used merely for issuing invoices (and receipts), and software actually used to do double-entry book keeping. I actually tried to get in touch with someone in the tax authorities who was in charge of this field, and failed. I got a phone number which may or may not be the right one, because no one answered there. The consensus seems to be that you are free to manage your own invoices in whatever way you wish, including a computerized method. The only catch is that if it turns out that the software issues two invoices with the same number, issues the same invoice twice labeling both as original, or any other from a series of such violations of the law, then you cannot say but it's the software. This is, really, what the registration of the software all about. Shachar -- Shachar Shemesh Lingnu Open Source Consulting ltd. http://www.lingnu.com/ = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: accounting software
Thanks for the prompt response. I am looking for an application from which i can manage/issue both tax reciepts as well as invoices. I understand the invoicing isn't the issue, but the tax reciepts are. Thanks Ivor On Sunday 10 July 2005 13:44, Shachar Shemesh wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi List Is anyone aware of an accounting application for Linux that is recognized by the Israeli tax authotities? (like rivchit etc.). Many thanks Ivor What are you trying to achieve? If it's just issuing invoices, you don't actually need the Tax authorities' permission. You are just accountable to the results if you don't pick one. If you want something more elaborate, then I'm not sure what the status is. Shachar = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]