Re: [MBZ] OT: Stupid nickle and dime stuff

[OK DonN via Mercedes]

3600 [seconds in an hour] divided by how ever many seconds it took you to drive 
one mile = your speed in MPH. Drive two miles, then divide 7200 by the number 
of seconds to get MPH.




On Monday, June 10th, 2024 at 2:15 PM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
 wrote:

> 
> 
> but wouldn't i have to drive some miles for an hour?
> 
> --FT
> 
> On 6/10/24 2:26 PM, OK DonN via Mercedes wrote:
> 
> > You can time the number of seconds between mile marks and do bit of math 
> > and come up with your MPH. The more miles you time, the more accurate the 
> > result.
> > 
> > On Monday, June 10th, 2024 at 10:27 AM, Curt Raymond via 
> > mercedesmerce...@okiebenz.com wrote:
> > 
> > > That's what gave me the idea that the speedo is off, then yesterday 
> > > driving RT 1 other cars normally max out at 60mph but most of the time 
> > > the cars I was following were doing 65 indicated in my car.
> > > 
> > > It occurs to me I should have paid more attention to the mile markers on 
> > > the highway. If the mileage is reading high it should show up in the car 
> > > thinking its traveled farther than it actually has. Probably wouldn't 
> > > show up over 1 mile but should over 10 or 100...
> > > 
> > > -Curt
> > 
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> 
> --
> --FT
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Stupid nickle and dime stuff

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

> but wouldn't i have to drive some miles for an hour?

Of course not, no more than the speedometer itself needs to.
It's just math.  Divide miles traveled (fractional is OK) by hours
taken to do so (ditto).  There's your answer.  The longer the timebase
or distance the more precise the result.  _Accuracy_ will depend on
the quality of your input data.  It will be difficult for you to process
other than some integral number of miles.  (The painted arrows
used by aircraft speed traps would be shorter, and good, if you
knew the distance and where to find one.)

My dad had an analog pilot's watch that had a stopwatch function and
a direct-reading MPH scale (nomograph) on it.  Just time yourself
over a measured mile and read speed off the scale.  IIRC his scale went
up to 600MPH or so.  You can do the same using a calculator.

Make sure the units are correct.  Miles over Hours.  If timing in
minutes and seconds, convert to fractional hours first.

You do need to hold a steady speed during the sample if you're wanting to 
compare
to the speedometer rather than just get an average rate.  Cruise control, etc.

My personal record for this sort of thing was 82 miles in 44 minutes, IIRC.
Did it maybe a half-dozen times over the years, could never beat it.
Exhilarating. Stupid.  You can do the math.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Stupid nickle and dime stuff

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

but wouldn't i have to drive some miles for an hour?

--FT

On 6/10/24 2:26 PM, OK DonN via Mercedes wrote:

You can time the number of seconds between mile marks and do bit of math and 
come up with your MPH. The more miles you time, the more accurate the result.

On Monday, June 10th, 2024 at 10:27 AM, Curt Raymond via 
Mercedes  wrote:

That's what gave me the idea that the speedo is off, then yesterday driving RT 
1 other cars normally max out at 60mph but most of the time the cars I was 
following were doing 65 indicated in my car.

It occurs to me I should have paid more attention to the mile markers on the 
highway. If the mileage is reading high it should show up in the car thinking 
its traveled farther than it actually has. Probably wouldn't show up over 1 
mile but should over 10 or 100...

-Curt


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--
--FT
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Stupid nickle and dime stuff

[OK DonN via Mercedes]

You can time the number of seconds between mile marks and do bit of math and 
come up with your MPH. The more miles you time, the more accurate the result.

On Monday, June 10th, 2024 at 10:27 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
 wrote:
> That's what gave me the idea that the speedo is off, then yesterday driving 
> RT 1 other cars normally max out at 60mph but most of the time the cars I was 
> following were doing 65 indicated in my car.
> 
> It occurs to me I should have paid more attention to the mile markers on the 
> highway. If the mileage is reading high it should show up in the car thinking 
> its traveled farther than it actually has. Probably wouldn't show up over 1 
> mile but should over 10 or 100...
> 
> -Curt
> 

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Stupid nickle and dime stuff

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

That's what gave me the idea that the speedo is off, then yesterday driving RT 
1 other cars normally max out at 60mph but most of the time the cars I was 
following were doing 65 indicated in my car.

It occurs to me I should have paid more attention to the mile markers on the 
highway. If the mileage is reading high it should show up in the car thinking 
its traveled farther than it actually has. Probably wouldn't show up over 1 
mile but should over 10 or 100...

-Curt


On Monday, June 10, 2024 at 11:23:23 AM EDT, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
 wrote: 





I usually check mine against the roadside "Your Speed" signs that are often set 
up in construction zones. But I don't really know how accurate those are, and I 
could see the motivation for having them set a little high.

On Mon, Jun 10, 2024, at 10:08, Craig via Mercedes wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 08:59:35 + (UTC) Curt Raymond
>  wrote:
>
>> The '05 Golf ate the miles up yesterday, we did Peterborough, NH to
>> Waterville, ME in one 200+ mile run. I *think* the speedo reads 5mph
>> slow which might explain the 45mpg.
>
> I got into the habit of using a GPS receiver as a speedometer -- makes it
> easy to see the speedometer and odometer errors.
>

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Stupid nickle and dime stuff

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

I usually check mine against the roadside "Your Speed" signs that are often set 
up in construction zones. But I don't really know how accurate those are, and I 
could see the motivation for having them set a little high.

On Mon, Jun 10, 2024, at 10:08, Craig via Mercedes wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 08:59:35 + (UTC) Curt Raymond
>  wrote:
>
>> The '05 Golf ate the miles up yesterday, we did Peterborough, NH to
>> Waterville, ME in one 200+ mile run. I *think* the speedo reads 5mph
>> slow which might explain the 45mpg.
>
> I got into the habit of using a GPS receiver as a speedometer -- makes it
> easy to see the speedometer and odometer errors.
>

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Stupid nickle and dime stuff

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

I'm going to try a GPS speedo via my phone on the way home. I *think* I can 
adjust the speedo within the VW software, need to try it when I get home.

-Curt

On Monday, June 10, 2024 at 10:09:41 AM EDT, Craig via Mercedes 
 wrote: 





On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 08:59:35 + (UTC) Curt Raymond
 wrote:

> The '05 Golf ate the miles up yesterday, we did Peterborough, NH to
> Waterville, ME in one 200+ mile run. I *think* the speedo reads 5mph
> slow which might explain the 45mpg.

I got into the habit of using a GPS receiver as a speedometer -- makes it
easy to see the speedometer and odometer errors.



Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Stupid nickle and dime stuff

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 08:59:35 + (UTC) Curt Raymond
 wrote:

> The '05 Golf ate the miles up yesterday, we did Peterborough, NH to
> Waterville, ME in one 200+ mile run. I *think* the speedo reads 5mph
> slow which might explain the 45mpg.

I got into the habit of using a GPS receiver as a speedometer -- makes it
easy to see the speedometer and odometer errors.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Stupid nickle and dime stuff

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

I forgot to mention the positive effects of the long term high speed run. While 
I haven't started the car yet today (ie cold start) when I stopped for 
groceries I noticed a significant reduction in smoke at startup.
The PD engines in the second gen TDIs (first gen would be '97 through '03 VE 
engines, third gen is the common rail like my 2015) are notorious for a little 
puff of smoke on cold start. This car had gotten so it was making a little 
cloud of smoke on cold starts and sometimes smoking for a mile or three down 
the road. I *think* it had a dribbly injector (sounds like a personal problem, 
HA!) which I'm hoping has cleaned up after a good hard run. If not I'll feed it 
a little Diesel Kleen before the run home.

-Curt




On Monday, June 10, 2024 at 08:48:15 AM EDT, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes 
 wrote: 





Yes, the bladder was the limiter on my Jettas too. 

AZBob

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 10, 2024, at 2:00 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> The '05 Golf ate the miles up yesterday, we did Peterborough, NH to 
> Waterville, ME in one 200+ mile run. I *think* the speedo reads 5mph slow 
> which might explain the 45mpg. Some of that is no doubt the around town 
> driving I'd been doing though.
> My bladder limited us to Houlton for our next top, only 170 miles, 
> disappointing ;) Most of that was at 85mph indicated.
> 7 hours flat from Peterborough  to Caribou, Google says 430 miles, they say 
> 6:30 but I think that'd be a tough number to hit...
> 
> I got diesel for $3.79 in Waterville. Didn't really need it but it was the 
> cheapest I'd seen to that point. On the way back I'll stop in Clinton, it was 
> $3.75 when I cruised through.
> 
> -Curt
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Saturday, June 8, 2024 at 10:35:40 PM EDT, Craig via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Sun, 9 Jun 2024 01:24:09 + (UTC) Curt Raymond via Mercedes
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Tomorrow I'm going to take it to the great northern estate. The car
>> smokes more on startup than I'd like, a 450 mile highway run ought to
>> clean the cobwebs out of it.
> 
> Have a safe trip!
> 
> 
> Craig
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Stupid nickle and dime stuff

[Bob Rentfro via Mercedes]

Yes, the bladder was the limiter on my Jettas too. 

AZBob

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 10, 2024, at 2:00 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> The '05 Golf ate the miles up yesterday, we did Peterborough, NH to 
> Waterville, ME in one 200+ mile run. I *think* the speedo reads 5mph slow 
> which might explain the 45mpg. Some of that is no doubt the around town 
> driving I'd been doing though.
> My bladder limited us to Houlton for our next top, only 170 miles, 
> disappointing ;) Most of that was at 85mph indicated.
> 7 hours flat from Peterborough  to Caribou, Google says 430 miles, they say 
> 6:30 but I think that'd be a tough number to hit...
> 
> I got diesel for $3.79 in Waterville. Didn't really need it but it was the 
> cheapest I'd seen to that point. On the way back I'll stop in Clinton, it was 
> $3.75 when I cruised through.
> 
> -Curt
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Saturday, June 8, 2024 at 10:35:40 PM EDT, Craig via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Sun, 9 Jun 2024 01:24:09 + (UTC) Curt Raymond via Mercedes
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Tomorrow I'm going to take it to the great northern estate. The car
>> smokes more on startup than I'd like, a 450 mile highway run ought to
>> clean the cobwebs out of it.
> 
> Have a safe trip!
> 
> 
> Craig
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Stupid nickle and dime stuff

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

The '05 Golf ate the miles up yesterday, we did Peterborough, NH to Waterville, 
ME in one 200+ mile run. I *think* the speedo reads 5mph slow which might 
explain the 45mpg. Some of that is no doubt the around town driving I'd been 
doing though.
My bladder limited us to Houlton for our next top, only 170 miles, 
disappointing ;) Most of that was at 85mph indicated.
7 hours flat from Peterborough  to Caribou, Google says 430 miles, they say 
6:30 but I think that'd be a tough number to hit...

I got diesel for $3.79 in Waterville. Didn't really need it but it was the 
cheapest I'd seen to that point. On the way back I'll stop in Clinton, it was 
$3.75 when I cruised through.

-Curt




On Saturday, June 8, 2024 at 10:35:40 PM EDT, Craig via Mercedes 
 wrote: 





On Sun, 9 Jun 2024 01:24:09 + (UTC) Curt Raymond via Mercedes
 wrote:

> Tomorrow I'm going to take it to the great northern estate. The car
> smokes more on startup than I'd like, a 450 mile highway run ought to
> clean the cobwebs out of it.

Have a safe trip!


Craig


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Stupid nickle and dime stuff

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Sun, 9 Jun 2024 01:24:09 + (UTC) Curt Raymond via Mercedes
 wrote:

> Tomorrow I'm going to take it to the great northern estate. The car
> smokes more on startup than I'd like, a 450 mile highway run ought to
> clean the cobwebs out of it.

Have a safe trip!


Craig

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[MBZ] OT: Stupid nickle and dime stuff

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Angie's '05 Golf has, I think, become my '05 Golf and she's taken over my '15 
Jetta.

Back about March the alternator quit, there are a stack of choices, I ended up 
going with a used one. It was slightly cheaper than a "new" made in China off 
brand or "rebuilt" Bosch. New Bosch is available but $450...

The ABS light has been on and off, I knew I'd whacked one of the rear sensors 
doing brakes. Fortunately replacements are cheap cheap. Unfortunately after 19 
years they have to come out in little pieces. VW uses an irritating array of 
torx and allen head fasteners. This one is allen head. I'd replaced the 
passenger side rear, the one I smacked, in April. I did the other one 
yesterday. Its a lot easier the second time. I even thought to use the dremel 
with a drum sander to clean the hole, its not ideal because its covered by the 
hub but not too bad.

It was also due for a timing belt back in April, 80,000 miles in almost 10 
years.

That got us past safety inspection today so I also changed the oil. I put in 
Rotella T6 5w40. I had been using Liquimoly 4100 but that stuff is running 
nearly $50 for 5 quarts. I got T6 on sale at Tractor Supply for $25/gal. It 
isn't registered for VW 505.01 that they specify but lots of people in the TDI 
community have been using it long term. Shell claims they just haven't bothered 
to submit it for VW's testing. We'll see, I'd hate to ruin the engine but, on 
the other hand, its almost 20 years old with 230,000 miles...

Tomorrow I'm going to take it to the great northern estate. The car smokes more 
on startup than I'd like, a 450 mile highway run ought to clean the cobwebs out 
of it.

-Curt

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Stupid human trick du jour

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

I bought a nice low hour Subaru/Robin generator on CL last year. 
It started right up for the original owner, but ran lean unless you left the
choke partly on. 
Probably spent too much time sitting in his garage between power failures. 

Shut off the fuel, took it home, it ran for a few seconds and quit. 
Ran the oil right up to the tippy top, no go. 
Put another gallon of gas in it, no go. 
Shut the fuel off and hung it up for the day. 

Next day, turned the fuel all the way to reserve, it started right up and quit,
never to even pop again. 
Unplugged the oil safety solenoid, no go. 
Rebuilt the carb, no go. 

Finally, about a month after I bought it, I realized the fuel petcock was
Off-On-Off, not Off-On-Reserve, and if I turned it all the way in either
direction, I wouldn't get any gas to the carb, but it would get some gas while I
was turning it past "On", which made it start but promptly quit. 
Put the fuel shutoff lever in the middle and it runs great, don't need to leave
the choke on now that the carb has been cleaned.  

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Stupid human trick du jour

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

I've been putting fuel shutoffs on everything so I can run the carb out at the 
end of the season. Makes the first start next season so easy.
Ours must be right around 15 years old, we've had it 10 years and it was used 
when we got it. Bottom of the line, 5hp, 24" cut, manual tilt adjustment. I 
change the oil most years in the spring, didn't do it last year because it 
didn't get used even once.
Both the Cub Cadet and Dodge pickup had dead batteries today. The CC might come 
back, I put it on a slow charge, its only 3 years old but it sat a lot last 
winter and all summer. The one in the pickup is pooched but I think its 
original. My local Federated Autoparts will have one Monday for $150, Autozone 
wants $180 although they have one in stock. Walmart wants $130 but they don't 
have one and can't give a date when they will.Fortunately we don't need the 
truck for a few days...
-Curt

  From: Curley McLain via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: Curley McLain <126die...@gmail.com>
 Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 3:04 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Stupid human trick du jour
   
Hehe!  I think we've all done that or something similar!

My Airens came with fuel shutoff.  That makes it easy to run the carb 
dry before putting it away for the summer.

NO problems with E10 fuel.  Probably getting to be about 15 years now.  
It still looks like (near) new and runs like new.

> Curt Raymond via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> December 10, 2016 at 1:53 PM
> Hauled the snowblower out today, its got a 110v starter so standard 
> practice is to just crank until it starts, except today it 
> didn't...Farted around with the shroud over the carb, no gas coming 
> from the carb drain. Hmm, no gas out of the primer either. FINALLY 
> after much farting around I remembered I'd installed a gas shutoff 
> last year and had forgotten to turn it back on.
>
> It runs much better with the gas turned on...
> -Curt

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Stupid human trick du jour

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Hehe!  I think we've all done that or something similar!

My Airens came with fuel shutoff.  That makes it easy to run the carb 
dry before putting it away for the summer.


NO problems with E10 fuel.  Probably getting to be about 15 years now.  
It still looks like (near) new and runs like new.



Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
December 10, 2016 at 1:53 PM
Hauled the snowblower out today, its got a 110v starter so standard 
practice is to just crank until it starts, except today it 
didn't...Farted around with the shroud over the carb, no gas coming 
from the carb drain. Hmm, no gas out of the primer either. FINALLY 
after much farting around I remembered I'd installed a gas shutoff 
last year and had forgotten to turn it back on.


It runs much better with the gas turned on...
-Curt


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[MBZ] OT: Stupid human trick du jour

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Hauled the snowblower out today, its got a 110v starter so standard practice is 
to just crank until it starts, except today it didn't...Farted around with the 
shroud over the carb, no gas coming from the carb drain. Hmm, no gas out of the 
primer either. FINALLY after much farting around I remembered I'd installed a 
gas shutoff last year and had forgotten to turn it back on. 

It runs much better with the gas turned on...
-Curt
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[MBZ] OT Stupid Question... Excellent Answer!

[Max Dillon]

What a great comeback to a typical, modern, politically correct idiot
journalist.

Stupid Question... Excellent Answer!

 

General Cosgrove (Australian Army) was interviewed on the radio recently.
Read his reply to the lady who interviewed him concerning guns and children.


Regardless of how you feel about gun laws you have to love this! 

This is one of the best comeback lines of all time. 

This is a portion of an ABC radio interview between a female broadcaster and
General Cosgrove who was about to sponsor a Boy Scout Troop visiting his
military Headquarters. 

 

FEMALE INTERVIEWER:

So, General Cosgrove, what things are you going to teach these young boys
when they visit your base?

 

GENERAL COSGROVE:

We're going to teach them climbing, canoeing, archery and shooting.

 

FEMALE INTERVIEWER: 

Shooting! That's a bit irresponsible, isn't it?

 

GENERAL COSGROVE:

I don't see why, they'll be properly supervised on the rifle range.

 

FEMALE INTERVIEWER:

Don't you admit that this is a terribly dangerous activity to be teaching
children?

 

GENERAL COSGROVE:

I don't see how. We will be teaching them proper rifle discipline before
they even touch a firearm. 

 

FEMALE INTERVIEWER:

But you're equipping them to become violent killers.

 

GENERAL COSGROVE:

Well, Ma'am, you're equipped to be a prostitute, but you're not one, are
you?

 

The broadcast went silent for 46 seconds and when it returned, the interview
was over.

 

Thanks,
/s/
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD 337k miles (Garage Queen)

'95 E300 321k miles

'73 Balboa 20

 

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Re: [MBZ] OT Stupid Question... Excellent Answer!

[Mitch Haley]

I knew I'd been seeing that for years, but never looked it up before today.
Mitch.

From Snopes:


Those who support gun rights and believe responsible gun ownership begins with 
teaching young people the right way to handle firearms at an early age have a 
great fondness for this story. As well they should, because this anecdote 
illustrates in a humorous way the difference between having the ability to do 
something and allowing that ability to dictate one's life choices.


Origins:   As apposite a tale as this might be, it's purely a product 
fabrication and not an excerpt from a real interview. It began circulating on 
the Internet in 1999 as a quote attributed to an LTG Reinwald of the
U.S. Army, it reappeared in 2001 attributed to Marine Corps General Reinwald, 
and it came back in 2007 in a version featuring Australian general Peter Cosgrove.


When this item initially appeared in 1999, the U.S. Army denied that there was a 
Lieutenant General Reinwald among their ranks and chalked the whole thing up as 
a hoax. (Which is as logic dictated all along: if an armed forces spokesperson 
gave voice to a sexist remark likening a female interviewer to a prostitute in a 
public interview, that officer would soon be called upon to make a very public 
apology as well as face charges within ranks for conduct unbecoming.)


National Public Radio had this to say about the matter:
We are aware of an erroneous story posted on the Free Republic Website, and 
possibly elsewhere, which mentions a supposed interview between an unnamed NPR 
reporter and a U.S. Army Lieutenant General Reinwald. The story is false — the 
dialogue mentioned was not an NPR interview, and it never aired on any NPR program.


Read more at http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/reinwald.asp

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Re: [MBZ] OT Stupid Question... Excellent Answer!

[Max Dillon]

Ok, but it IS still a great comeback!
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20

Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote:

I knew I'd been seeing that for years, but never looked it up before
today.
Mitch.

 From Snopes:


Those who support gun rights and believe responsible gun ownership
begins with 
teaching young people the right way to handle firearms at an early age
have a 
great fondness for this story. As well they should, because this
anecdote 
illustrates in a humorous way the difference between having the ability
to do 
something and allowing that ability to dictate one's life choices.

Origins:   As apposite a tale as this might be, it's purely a product 
fabrication and not an excerpt from a real interview. It began
circulating on 
the Internet in 1999 as a quote attributed to an LTG Reinwald of the
U.S. Army, it reappeared in 2001 attributed to Marine Corps General
Reinwald, 
and it came back in 2007 in a version featuring Australian general
Peter Cosgrove.

When this item initially appeared in 1999, the U.S. Army denied that
there was a 
Lieutenant General Reinwald among their ranks and chalked the whole
thing up as 
a hoax. (Which is as logic dictated all along: if an armed forces
spokesperson 
gave voice to a sexist remark likening a female interviewer to a
prostitute in a 
public interview, that officer would soon be called upon to make a very
public 
apology as well as face charges within ranks for conduct unbecoming.)

National Public Radio had this to say about the matter:
We are aware of an erroneous story posted on the Free Republic
Website, and 
possibly elsewhere, which mentions a supposed interview between an
unnamed NPR 
reporter and a U.S. Army Lieutenant General Reinwald. The story is
false — the 
dialogue mentioned was not an NPR interview, and it never aired on any
NPR program.

Read more at http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/reinwald.asp

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Re: [MBZ] OT Stupid Question... Excellent Answer!

[Mitch Haley]

Max Dillon wrote:

Ok, but it IS still a great comeback!



I was surprised that Snopes would say this, given the owners' usually obvious 
left bias:
...this anecdote illustrates in a humorous way the difference between having 
the ability to do something and allowing that ability to dictate one's life 
choices.


But they had to spoil it with ...if an armed forces spokesperson gave voice to 
a sexist remark likening a female interviewer to a prostitute in a public 
interview, that officer would soon be called upon to make a very public apology 
as well as face charges within ranks for conduct unbecoming.


I see nothing sexist in the story, the fictitious military officer simply 
objected to the fictitious reporter's prejudiced statement by comparing it to 
another prejudiced statement which she wouldn't agree with.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT Stupid Question... Excellent Answer!

[Curt Raymond]

I agree with you, Snopes is still right though. If somebody came right out and 
said that there would be hell to pay. Maybe not publicly but they'd be at best 
ostracized...

-Curt

Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 18:00:15 -0500
From: Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Stupid Question... Excellent Answer!
Message-ID: 5122b27f.70...@voyager.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

Max Dillon wrote:
 Ok, but it IS still a great comeback!


I was surprised that Snopes would say this, given the owners' usually obvious 
left bias:
...this anecdote illustrates in a humorous way the difference between having 
the ability to do something and allowing that ability to dictate one's life 
choices.

But they had to spoil it with ...if an armed forces spokesperson gave voice to 
a sexist remark likening a female interviewer to a prostitute in a public 
interview, that officer would soon be called upon to make a very public apology 
as well as face charges within ranks for conduct unbecoming.

I see nothing sexist in the story, the fictitious military officer simply 
objected to the fictitious reporter's prejudiced statement by comparing it to 
another prejudiced statement which she wouldn't agree with.

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid

[LarryT]

Hmmm, since I have Heat Pumps will I get any benefit from the UV lights in 
my air handling system?


When you 1st started talking aout UV lights and their ability to clean 
evaporators I pictured what I call condensers in the air handling systems. 
Won't the UV keep them clean also?  The evap that's outside is something I 
keep clean with a garden hose.


Not questioning your suggestion - just trying to understand the whole 
process.


;-)
Thx -
LarryT

- Original Message - 
From: harry watkins harry...@bellsouth.net

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 7:24 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid


Larry, check out the link I provided, lots of info there.  They were also 
easy to talk to when I had a question.


Not much electrical stuff involved, I put a male plug on the pigtail and I 
plug it into a nearby 115AC outlet.  You can wire it into the HVAC, but I 
choose not to.


It cleans the whole duct system over time because the air is circulated 
past the lights many times in a week.


It cleans the evaporator, not the condenser.  Of course with my geo 
thermal system they are combined into one.  I think with most regular heat 
pumps, the condenser is outside.


I have two 16 bulbs for my 1800 sq ft house and that was overkill.  I 
could have gotten by with two 8 bulbs.


Harry

Not being an electrical kind of guy, I did a search for UV lights and was 
surprised to see search results were all blacklights.


OK, now I know what we're talking about ;-)  So, the UV kills various 
kinds of mold, and germs, etc to keep the condensor clean - that''s 
really a great idea!  Will have to try it.


The filters do nothing to keep germs/mold etc from growing on the evap do 
they?


How large/powerful does the light need to be in relaton to the evap?

I have 2 HVAC systems - 1 for upstairs and 1 for downstairs.  Trying to 
understand how many lights I'll need.


I'll bet having the evap so clean really helps the performance of the 
system!


Thanks for the info -

LarryT

- Original Message - 
From: harry watkins harry...@bellsouth.net

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 10:11 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid


Yes, my bulbs are about four inches from the evap.  You can install 
everything inside, or do like I did and install the sockets outside and 
drill some holes for the bulbs to be inside.


This is where I got mine.  A friend tells me you can find them cheaper.

http://www.negativeiongenerators.com/ultraviolet.html

Harry

- Original Message - 
From: Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:13 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid


You installed these lights on the outlet side?  Did you install them in 
the duct somehow?


harry watkins wrote:

Larry

I did two things that help my HVAC system.  First, I have two return 
inlets. One near the floor and one near the ceiling that use the same 
ductwork otherwise.  I made a plug for the one not being used and keep 
a filter in the other.  Summer time I suck from the ceiling and 
recondition the warm air up there.  Winter time is reversed.


Two, I installed UV lights in front of the outlet side of my 
evaporator and they kill germs.  My evaporator is so clean I could put 
it on the showroom floor for sale new, uhh almost.


Before I installed the UVs, I could barely see light through the evap, 
it had greasy looking black stuff plugging it up.


I used a germ test kit before and after that indicated Yeast, Bacteria 
and Mold.  My count before was 2, 6 and four.  Six months later it was 
2 and 1. Last month, two years later, it was 1 and 1.  The bulbs only 
last two or three years so I'm checking every six months for a clue 
the change them out.


Harry


--
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
 95 E300, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 91 300E, 89 560SEL,
 89 300E, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D x2,
 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D,
http://www.okiebenz.com

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http

Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid

[harry watkins]

Larry, Just like your car, the condenser is outside and the evap is inside. 
The UV lights clean the evap and duct work.  This link tells you all you 
need to know:

http://www.negativeiongenerators.com:80/ultraviolet.html

These are called Air Probe Sanitizers.

Harry 



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Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid

[Wilton Strickland]

In a cooling system, the inside heat exchanger is the evaporator, and the
outside heat exchanger is the condenser.  When a heat pump switches modes
and become a heating system, the inside heat exchanger becomes the
condenser, and the outside heat exchanger becomes the evaporator.

Wilton

- Original Message -
From: LarryT l02tur...@comcast.net
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 5:43 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid


 Hmmm, since I have Heat Pumps will I get any benefit from the UV lights in
 my air handling system?

 When you 1st started talking aout UV lights and their ability to clean
 evaporators I pictured what I call condensers in the air handling systems.
 Won't the UV keep them clean also?  The evap that's outside is something I
 keep clean with a garden hose.

 Not questioning your suggestion - just trying to understand the whole
 process.

 ;-)
 Thx -
 LarryT

 - Original Message -
 From: harry watkins harry...@bellsouth.net
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 7:24 AM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid


  Larry, check out the link I provided, lots of info there.  They were
also
  easy to talk to when I had a question.
 
  Not much electrical stuff involved, I put a male plug on the pigtail and
I
  plug it into a nearby 115AC outlet.  You can wire it into the HVAC, but
I
  choose not to.
 
  It cleans the whole duct system over time because the air is circulated
  past the lights many times in a week.
 
  It cleans the evaporator, not the condenser.  Of course with my geo
  thermal system they are combined into one.  I think with most regular
heat
  pumps, the condenser is outside.
 
  I have two 16 bulbs for my 1800 sq ft house and that was overkill.  I
  could have gotten by with two 8 bulbs.
 
  Harry
 
  Not being an electrical kind of guy, I did a search for UV lights and
was
  surprised to see search results were all blacklights.
 
  OK, now I know what we're talking about ;-)  So, the UV kills various
  kinds of mold, and germs, etc to keep the condensor clean - that''s
  really a great idea!  Will have to try it.
 
  The filters do nothing to keep germs/mold etc from growing on the evap
do
  they?
 
  How large/powerful does the light need to be in relaton to the evap?
 
  I have 2 HVAC systems - 1 for upstairs and 1 for downstairs.  Trying to
  understand how many lights I'll need.
 
  I'll bet having the evap so clean really helps the performance of the
  system!
 
  Thanks for the info -
 
  LarryT
 
  - Original Message -
  From: harry watkins harry...@bellsouth.net
  To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
  Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 10:11 PM
  Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid
 
 
  Yes, my bulbs are about four inches from the evap.  You can install
  everything inside, or do like I did and install the sockets outside
and
  drill some holes for the bulbs to be inside.
 
  This is where I got mine.  A friend tells me you can find them
cheaper.
 
  http://www.negativeiongenerators.com/ultraviolet.html
 
  Harry
 
  - Original Message -
  From: Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net
  To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
  Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:13 PM
  Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid
 
 
  You installed these lights on the outlet side?  Did you install them
in
  the duct somehow?
 
  harry watkins wrote:
  Larry
 
  I did two things that help my HVAC system.  First, I have two return
  inlets. One near the floor and one near the ceiling that use the
same
  ductwork otherwise.  I made a plug for the one not being used and
keep
  a filter in the other.  Summer time I suck from the ceiling and
  recondition the warm air up there.  Winter time is reversed.
 
  Two, I installed UV lights in front of the outlet side of my
  evaporator and they kill germs.  My evaporator is so clean I could
put
  it on the showroom floor for sale new, uhh almost.
 
  Before I installed the UVs, I could barely see light through the
evap,
  it had greasy looking black stuff plugging it up.
 
  I used a germ test kit before and after that indicated Yeast,
Bacteria
  and Mold.  My count before was 2, 6 and four.  Six months later it
was
  2 and 1. Last month, two years later, it was 1 and 1.  The bulbs
only
  last two or three years so I'm checking every six months for a clue
  the change them out.
 
  Harry
 
  --
  Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
   95 E300, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 91 300E, 89 560SEL,
   89 300E, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D x2,
   84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D,
  http://www.okiebenz.com
 
  ___
  http://www.okiebenz.com
  For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
  To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
  To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
  http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid

[Mitch Haley]

Wilton Strickland wrote:

In a cooling system, the inside heat exchanger is the evaporator, and the
outside heat exchanger is the condenser.  When a heat pump switches modes
and become a heating system, the inside heat exchanger becomes the
condenser, and the outside heat exchanger becomes the evaporator.



...and I suspect it isn't worth running the sterilizer on the condenser during 
the heating season.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid

[LarryT]

Not being an electrical kind of guy, I did a search for UV lights and was 
surprised to see search results were all blacklights.


OK, now I know what we're talking about ;-)  So, the UV kills various kinds 
of mold, and germs, etc to keep the condensor clean - that''s really a great 
idea!  Will have to try it.


The filters do nothing to keep germs/mold etc from growing on the evap do 
they?


How large/powerful does the light need to be in relaton to the evap?

I have 2 HVAC systems - 1 for upstairs and 1 for downstairs.  Trying to 
understand how many lights I'll need.


I'll bet having the evap so clean really helps the performance of the 
system!


Thanks for the info -

LarryT

- Original Message - 
From: harry watkins harry...@bellsouth.net

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 10:11 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid


Yes, my bulbs are about four inches from the evap.  You can install 
everything inside, or do like I did and install the sockets outside and 
drill some holes for the bulbs to be inside.


This is where I got mine.  A friend tells me you can find them cheaper.

http://www.negativeiongenerators.com/ultraviolet.html

Harry

- Original Message - 
From: Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:13 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid


You installed these lights on the outlet side?  Did you install them in 
the duct somehow?


harry watkins wrote:

Larry

I did two things that help my HVAC system.  First, I have two return 
inlets. One near the floor and one near the ceiling that use the same 
ductwork otherwise.  I made a plug for the one not being used and keep a 
filter in the other.  Summer time I suck from the ceiling and 
recondition the warm air up there.  Winter time is reversed.


Two, I installed UV lights in front of the outlet side of my evaporator 
and they kill germs.  My evaporator is so clean I could put it on the 
showroom floor for sale new, uhh almost.


Before I installed the UVs, I could barely see light through the evap, 
it had greasy looking black stuff plugging it up.


I used a germ test kit before and after that indicated Yeast, Bacteria 
and Mold.  My count before was 2, 6 and four.  Six months later it was 2 
and 1. Last month, two years later, it was 1 and 1.  The bulbs only last 
two or three years so I'm checking every six months for a clue the 
change them out.


Harry


--
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
 95 E300, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 91 300E, 89 560SEL,
 89 300E, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D x2,
 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D,
http://www.okiebenz.com

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid

[harry watkins]

Larry, check out the link I provided, lots of info there.  They were also 
easy to talk to when I had a question.


Not much electrical stuff involved, I put a male plug on the pigtail and I 
plug it into a nearby 115AC outlet.  You can wire it into the HVAC, but I 
choose not to.


It cleans the whole duct system over time because the air is circulated past 
the lights many times in a week.


It cleans the evaporator, not the condenser.  Of course with my geo thermal 
system they are combined into one.  I think with most regular heat pumps, 
the condenser is outside.


I have two 16 bulbs for my 1800 sq ft house and that was overkill.  I could 
have gotten by with two 8 bulbs.


Harry

Not being an electrical kind of guy, I did a search for UV lights and was 
surprised to see search results were all blacklights.


OK, now I know what we're talking about ;-)  So, the UV kills various 
kinds of mold, and germs, etc to keep the condensor clean - that''s really 
a great idea!  Will have to try it.


The filters do nothing to keep germs/mold etc from growing on the evap do 
they?


How large/powerful does the light need to be in relaton to the evap?

I have 2 HVAC systems - 1 for upstairs and 1 for downstairs.  Trying to 
understand how many lights I'll need.


I'll bet having the evap so clean really helps the performance of the 
system!


Thanks for the info -

LarryT

- Original Message - 
From: harry watkins harry...@bellsouth.net

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 10:11 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid


Yes, my bulbs are about four inches from the evap.  You can install 
everything inside, or do like I did and install the sockets outside and 
drill some holes for the bulbs to be inside.


This is where I got mine.  A friend tells me you can find them cheaper.

http://www.negativeiongenerators.com/ultraviolet.html

Harry

- Original Message - 
From: Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:13 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid


You installed these lights on the outlet side?  Did you install them in 
the duct somehow?


harry watkins wrote:

Larry

I did two things that help my HVAC system.  First, I have two return 
inlets. One near the floor and one near the ceiling that use the same 
ductwork otherwise.  I made a plug for the one not being used and keep 
a filter in the other.  Summer time I suck from the ceiling and 
recondition the warm air up there.  Winter time is reversed.


Two, I installed UV lights in front of the outlet side of my evaporator 
and they kill germs.  My evaporator is so clean I could put it on the 
showroom floor for sale new, uhh almost.


Before I installed the UVs, I could barely see light through the evap, 
it had greasy looking black stuff plugging it up.


I used a germ test kit before and after that indicated Yeast, Bacteria 
and Mold.  My count before was 2, 6 and four.  Six months later it was 
2 and 1. Last month, two years later, it was 1 and 1.  The bulbs only 
last two or three years so I'm checking every six months for a clue the 
change them out.


Harry


--
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
 95 E300, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 91 300E, 89 560SEL,
 89 300E, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D x2,
 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D,
http://www.okiebenz.com

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid

[Jim Cathey]

Not being an electrical kind of guy, I did a search for UV lights and 
was surprised to see search results were all blacklights.


Try 'germicidal'.  That's what they call them.

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid

[LarryT]

Hey WIlton -
   Good advice.
   Along those lines I spoke with the technician installing my new HVAC 
compressor system.  I asked which filters were the best to use and said we 
often use the more expensive ones (bet $6  $8 ea) because of their allergy 
protection.  He said they *may* help allergies but they definately make the 
pumps and other system components work harder to pull air thru the filters. 
And the harder they work the shorter the lifespan.  He suggested the blue 
fiberglass filters to maximize system efficiency -


LarryT

- Original Message - 
From: Wilton Strickland wilt...@nc.rr.com

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 12:33 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid


Returns should be sized to comfortably carry all of the supply without
overheating fans/compressors and creating excessive noise, especially at the
return intake.  If the return is not large enough, air at the return
accelerates (and noise increases, whistles, etc.) to keep the necessary
volume up.  Restricted air flow not only makes a system less efficient, it
can overheat and burn out heat pump/cooling system compressors; this is why
it is important to replace filters often - to maintain efficient air flow.
There is a formula or rule-of-thumb the heating/cooling guys use to size
return ducts vs supply ducts; 'knew it years ago; I've forgotten.

Wilton

- Original Message -
From: Peter Hertzing phertz...@gmail.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 8:16 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid


Wilton - Thanks for the great info.  I have question.  Is thier a magic
formula for calculating the amound to return vs. supply?  Should it be
equal, or shoudl one or the other be larger?

Thanks,

Peter

On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 8:45 PM, Wilton Strickland wilt...@nc.rr.comwrote:


'Sounds like you may have an intake/return leak.  I have found several (at
least 3 during the 15 years I inspected domestic systems) with the return
ducts lying COMPLETELY open under houses - ALL the air exiting supply
registers in the house was coming from under the house!  I've seen many
others with lesser leaks, of course.  We do need to be aware of those
possibilities, understand what happens in the system and try to close

those

leaks on BOTH sides of the system.  Duct leaks on both sides of the system
do a good job of removing money from our bank accounts and fatten those of
the power companies.

Most heating/cooling system ducts I've seen are VERY poorly installed and
leak like sieves.  Most I've seen are assembled very loosely with

worthless

duct tape that falls off 'bout the time the check to the installer
clears,
screws or staples with lotsa leaking cracks.  Check the ducts thoroughly
and
try to seal them as completely as reasonably possible.  Seal leaks with
mastic and/or a VERY good tape (NOT so-called duct/duck tape) made
specifically for really sealing ducts - the very sticky, shiny, metallic
tape is usually good for it, and there may be better stuff now.  There are
companies who do a pressure (fan door) test of duct systems with aid of
smoke candles to find leaks and then work to seal them.  'Been 8 years
since I did an inspection, so I've lost touch with costs, etc.

Wilton

- Original Message -
From: Archer arche...@embarqmail.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 3:24 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid


Hi Wilton,
Here's another A/C question you or someone else might be able answer.
Because the electric bill seems high, I suspected that there might be a
leak
in the fiberglas ductwork  Since this is a closed A/C system with no
fresh
air coming in except when the doors or windows are open, I concluded that
if
I opened a window a few inches and taped a kleenex in the opening that I
could tell if a leak in the return ductwork was sucking in air (gaining
air)
which would make the kleenex billow out; or if a leak in the ductwork to
the
cold air registers was blowing cold air out in the attic which would make
the kleenex billow in (losing air).
It turned out that the kleenex billowed out which meant that there was a
leak in the return ductwork in the attic and the house was gaining air

from

the attic.  Where was this excess air going?  I would guess it was going
out
through the usual leaks around the doors and windows or even up through

the

range hood vent or other vents.

When we first built the house about 13 years ago, I did the same kleenex
test and found that there was a big leak, so I called the company that
installed the A/C.  He went over it with his gauges and instruments and
said
there was no leak.  I tried to explain that since the house was losing or
gaining air there had to be leak, but I was never able to make him
understand that there had to be a leak.  After waiting a a couple of weeks
deciding what to do, I did the test a second time and there was no leak.
The Kleenex hung

Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid

[harry watkins]

Larry

I did two things that help my HVAC system.  First, I have two return inlets. 
One near the floor and one near the ceiling that use the same ductwork 
otherwise.  I made a plug for the one not being used and keep a filter in 
the other.  Summer time I suck from the ceiling and recondition the warm air 
up there.  Winter time is reversed.


Two, I installed UV lights in front of the outlet side of my evaporator and 
they kill germs.  My evaporator is so clean I could put it on the showroom 
floor for sale new, uhh almost.


Before I installed the UVs, I could barely see light through the evap, it 
had greasy looking black stuff plugging it up.


I used a germ test kit before and after that indicated Yeast, Bacteria and 
Mold.  My count before was 2, 6 and four.  Six months later it was 2 and 1. 
Last month, two years later, it was 1 and 1.  The bulbs only last two or 
three years so I'm checking every six months for a clue the change them out.


Harry


- Original Message - 
From: LarryT l02tur...@comcast.net

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 8:29 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid


Hey WIlton -
   Good advice.
   Along those lines I spoke with the technician installing my new HVAC
compressor system.  I asked which filters were the best to use and said we
often use the more expensive ones (bet $6  $8 ea) because of their allergy
protection.  He said they *may* help allergies but they definately make the
pumps and other system components work harder to pull air thru the filters.
And the harder they work the shorter the lifespan.  He suggested the blue
fiberglass filters to maximize system efficiency -

LarryT

- Original Message - 
From: Wilton Strickland wilt...@nc.rr.com

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 12:33 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid


Returns should be sized to comfortably carry all of the supply without
overheating fans/compressors and creating excessive noise, especially at the
return intake.  If the return is not large enough, air at the return
accelerates (and noise increases, whistles, etc.) to keep the necessary
volume up.  Restricted air flow not only makes a system less efficient, it
can overheat and burn out heat pump/cooling system compressors; this is why
it is important to replace filters often - to maintain efficient air flow.
There is a formula or rule-of-thumb the heating/cooling guys use to size
return ducts vs supply ducts; 'knew it years ago; I've forgotten.

Wilton

- Original Message -
From: Peter Hertzing phertz...@gmail.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 8:16 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid


Wilton - Thanks for the great info.  I have question.  Is thier a magic
formula for calculating the amound to return vs. supply?  Should it be
equal, or shoudl one or the other be larger?

Thanks,

Peter

On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 8:45 PM, Wilton Strickland wilt...@nc.rr.comwrote:


'Sounds like you may have an intake/return leak.  I have found several (at
least 3 during the 15 years I inspected domestic systems) with the return
ducts lying COMPLETELY open under houses - ALL the air exiting supply
registers in the house was coming from under the house!  I've seen many
others with lesser leaks, of course.  We do need to be aware of those
possibilities, understand what happens in the system and try to close

those

leaks on BOTH sides of the system.  Duct leaks on both sides of the system
do a good job of removing money from our bank accounts and fatten those of
the power companies.

Most heating/cooling system ducts I've seen are VERY poorly installed and
leak like sieves.  Most I've seen are assembled very loosely with

worthless

duct tape that falls off 'bout the time the check to the installer
clears,
screws or staples with lotsa leaking cracks.  Check the ducts thoroughly
and
try to seal them as completely as reasonably possible.  Seal leaks with
mastic and/or a VERY good tape (NOT so-called duct/duck tape) made
specifically for really sealing ducts - the very sticky, shiny, metallic
tape is usually good for it, and there may be better stuff now.  There are
companies who do a pressure (fan door) test of duct systems with aid of
smoke candles to find leaks and then work to seal them.  'Been 8 years
since I did an inspection, so I've lost touch with costs, etc.

Wilton

- Original Message -
From: Archer arche...@embarqmail.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 3:24 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid


Hi Wilton,
Here's another A/C question you or someone else might be able answer.
Because the electric bill seems high, I suspected that there might be a
leak
in the fiberglas ductwork  Since this is a closed A/C system with no
fresh
air coming in except when the doors or windows are open, I concluded that
if
I opened a window a few inches and taped a kleenex

Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid

[MG]

If you are looking for allergy protection I would think the best filter 
would be an electrostatic filter. They are cleaned by pulling out and 
rinsing. Trouble is they cost a bit up front, you have to have enough 
space to put one in and they do need an electric connection. They don't 
cause much air restriction though so that is good.


Manfred



From: LarryT l02tur...@comcast.net
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 8:29 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid


Hey WIlton -
Good advice.
Along those lines I spoke with the technician installing my new HVAC
compressor system.  I asked which filters were the best to use and said we
often use the more expensive ones (bet $6  $8 ea) because of their allergy
protection.  He said they *may* help allergies but they definately make the
pumps and other system components work harder to pull air thru the filters.
And the harder they work the shorter the lifespan.  He suggested the blue
fiberglass filters to maximize system efficiency -

LarryT

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

You installed these lights on the outlet side?  Did you install them in 
the duct somehow?


harry watkins wrote:

Larry

I did two things that help my HVAC system.  First, I have two return 
inlets. One near the floor and one near the ceiling that use the same 
ductwork otherwise.  I made a plug for the one not being used and keep a 
filter in the other.  Summer time I suck from the ceiling and 
recondition the warm air up there.  Winter time is reversed.


Two, I installed UV lights in front of the outlet side of my evaporator 
and they kill germs.  My evaporator is so clean I could put it on the 
showroom floor for sale new, uhh almost.


Before I installed the UVs, I could barely see light through the evap, 
it had greasy looking black stuff plugging it up.


I used a germ test kit before and after that indicated Yeast, Bacteria 
and Mold.  My count before was 2, 6 and four.  Six months later it was 2 
and 1. Last month, two years later, it was 1 and 1.  The bulbs only last 
two or three years so I'm checking every six months for a clue the 
change them out.


Harry



--
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
 95 E300, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 91 300E, 89 560SEL,
 89 300E, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D x2,
 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D,
http://www.okiebenz.com

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid

[harry watkins]

Yes, my bulbs are about four inches from the evap.  You can install 
everything inside, or do like I did and install the sockets outside and 
drill some holes for the bulbs to be inside.


This is where I got mine.  A friend tells me you can find them cheaper.

http://www.negativeiongenerators.com/ultraviolet.html

Harry

- Original Message - 
From: Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:13 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid


You installed these lights on the outlet side?  Did you install them in 
the duct somehow?


harry watkins wrote:

Larry

I did two things that help my HVAC system.  First, I have two return 
inlets. One near the floor and one near the ceiling that use the same 
ductwork otherwise.  I made a plug for the one not being used and keep a 
filter in the other.  Summer time I suck from the ceiling and recondition 
the warm air up there.  Winter time is reversed.


Two, I installed UV lights in front of the outlet side of my evaporator 
and they kill germs.  My evaporator is so clean I could put it on the 
showroom floor for sale new, uhh almost.


Before I installed the UVs, I could barely see light through the evap, it 
had greasy looking black stuff plugging it up.


I used a germ test kit before and after that indicated Yeast, Bacteria 
and Mold.  My count before was 2, 6 and four.  Six months later it was 2 
and 1. Last month, two years later, it was 1 and 1.  The bulbs only last 
two or three years so I'm checking every six months for a clue the change 
them out.


Harry


--
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
 95 E300, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 91 300E, 89 560SEL,
 89 300E, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D x2,
 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D,
http://www.okiebenz.com

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid

[Craig McCluskey]

On Tue, 24 Mar 2009 09:15:26 -0500 harry watkins
harry...@bellsouth.net wrote:

 Larry
 
 I did two things that help my HVAC system.  First, I have two return
 inlets.  One near the floor and one near the ceiling that use the same
 ductwork  otherwise.  I made a plug for the one not being used and keep
 a filter in  the other.  Summer time I suck from the ceiling and
 recondition the warm air  up there.  Winter time is reversed.

I think you're running your system backwards. In winter, for sure, you
want to suck the warm air off the ceiling (where the warm air tends to go)
and put it out near the floor (where you happen to be) -- like a
counter-flow furnace. In summer, I think you want to take the cool air
from the floor and put it out near the ceiling.


Craig

P.S. Notice all of the multitude of lines that I've deleted from this
 post? No use sending them multiple times.

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid

[Wilton Strickland]

'My thoughts, too, Craig.

Wilton

- Original Message -
From: Craig McCluskey diese...@cnsp.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 9:36 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid


 On Tue, 24 Mar 2009 09:15:26 -0500 harry watkins
 harry...@bellsouth.net wrote:

  Larry
 
  I did two things that help my HVAC system.  First, I have two return
  inlets.  One near the floor and one near the ceiling that use the same
  ductwork  otherwise.  I made a plug for the one not being used and keep
  a filter in  the other.  Summer time I suck from the ceiling and
  recondition the warm air  up there.  Winter time is reversed.

 I think you're running your system backwards. In winter, for sure, you
 want to suck the warm air off the ceiling (where the warm air tends to go)
 and put it out near the floor (where you happen to be) -- like a
 counter-flow furnace. In summer, I think you want to take the cool air
 from the floor and put it out near the ceiling.


 Craig

 P.S. Notice all of the multitude of lines that I've deleted from this
  post? No use sending them multiple times.

 ___
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid

[OK Don]

Wouldn't you want to kill the germs before they go through the evap.? If
it's clean now, how does killing germs after they've blown through help? Or
have you killed all the germs in the house so that none are being sucked
intp the return air now?


 Two, I installed UV lights in front of the outlet side of my evaporator and
 they kill germs.  My evaporator is so clean I could put it on the showroom
 floor for sale new, uhh almost.

 Before I installed the UVs, I could barely see light through the evap, it
 had greasy looking black stuff plugging it up.

 I used a germ test kit before and after that indicated Yeast, Bacteria and
 Mold.  My count before was 2, 6 and four.  Six months later it was 2 and 1.
 Last month, two years later, it was 1 and 1.  The bulbs only last two or
 three years so I'm checking every six months for a clue the change them out.

 Harry
 --
 OK Don, who also celans up the older text.

-- next part --
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid

[Fmiser]

  Wilton Strickland wrote:
  Gerry, if you had had hypoxia (lack of oxygen) in the car,
  you would have NEVER known it or felt anything.

 Gerry wrote:

 Would it be about the same as a pilot who loses
 pressurization at high altitude?

Similar. I believe at high altitude the lower air pressure changes how
the lung functions. It's not only the lack of oxygen. Right?

 Mitch wrote:
 
 If it's hypoxia due to your own breathing, shouldn't the CO2
 level go up as the O2 level goes down? Doesn't the CO2 level
 get up to the lung-burning level? I recall a couple of
 idiots who climbed inside a helium inflated something or
 other, passed out before they realized they weren't getting
 oxygen, died soon after.

Could be. The I'm out of air! Let me breath!! is a CO2
trigger. So long as there is a gas in the lungs that will
carry the CO2 away, the human is content. There's no
low-oxygen sensor.

-- Philip

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid

[Mitch Haley]

Archer wrote:

That's exactly what I have; the likely difference being it might have a 
lower slope since the roof doesn't have to support ice and snow.  Have 
to get up there and try taping some of the joint close by the stairs to 
see how it goes..

Thanks,


My folks' house is 32' wide, 4 in 12 pitch. The roof rises a bit over 5' in 16',
less the space taken up by the truss. You have to stoop but it's manageable.
If it were 24' wide with 3 in 12 pitch, that would involve crawling on your 
hands and knees. (3' minus truss structure = not enough)


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid

[LarryT]

you wrote Coast is about 100 miles to the east.

I hope the widow had a good pair of binoculars! ;-)
(Sounds like a beautiful home!   Love those slate roofs.)

LarryT

- Original Message - 
From: Wilton Strickland wilt...@nc.rr.com

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 11:33 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid


My house has a REAL widow's walk centered on the roof between two chimneys.
The area is accessible via a permanently installed ladder that rises steeply
(but not vertically) about 15 - 18 feet above the attic floor, which is
accessed via a walkup stairway.  At the top of the ladder, one must lift and
push aside a nautical-type hatch to enter onto the widow's walk, which is
surrounded by a Chippendale railing.  House is in Georgian colonial revival
style; steep, slate hip roof; 3 small dormers on front and rear roof areas;
placing of front and rear windows and doors is very symmetrical as are the
chimneys.  Coast is about 100 miles to the east.

Wilton

[SNIP] 



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Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid

[Peter Hertzing]

Wilton - Thanks for the great info.  I have question.  Is thier a magic
formula for calculating the amound to return vs. supply?  Should it be
equal, or shoudl one or the other be larger?

Thanks,

Peter

On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 8:45 PM, Wilton Strickland wilt...@nc.rr.comwrote:

 'Sounds like you may have an intake/return leak.  I have found several (at
 least 3 during the 15 years I inspected domestic systems) with the return
 ducts lying COMPLETELY open under houses - ALL the air exiting supply
 registers in the house was coming from under the house!  I've seen many
 others with lesser leaks, of course.  We do need to be aware of those
 possibilities, understand what happens in the system and try to close those
 leaks on BOTH sides of the system.  Duct leaks on both sides of the system
 do a good job of removing money from our bank accounts and fatten those of
 the power companies.

 Most heating/cooling system ducts I've seen are VERY poorly installed and
 leak like sieves.  Most I've seen are assembled very loosely with worthless
 duct tape that falls off 'bout the time the check to the installer
 clears,
 screws or staples with lotsa leaking cracks.  Check the ducts thoroughly
 and
 try to seal them as completely as reasonably possible.  Seal leaks with
 mastic and/or a VERY good tape (NOT so-called duct/duck tape) made
 specifically for really sealing ducts - the very sticky, shiny, metallic
 tape is usually good for it, and there may be better stuff now.  There are
 companies who do a pressure (fan door) test of duct systems with aid of
 smoke candles to find leaks and then work to seal them.  'Been 8 years
 since I did an inspection, so I've lost touch with costs, etc.

 Wilton

 - Original Message -
 From: Archer arche...@embarqmail.com
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 3:24 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid


 Hi Wilton,
 Here's another A/C question you or someone else might be able answer.
 Because the electric bill seems high, I suspected that there might be a
 leak
 in the fiberglas ductwork  Since this is a closed A/C system with no
 fresh
 air coming in except when the doors or windows are open, I concluded that
 if
 I opened a window a few inches and taped a kleenex in the opening that I
 could tell if a leak in the return ductwork was sucking in air (gaining
 air)
 which would make the kleenex billow out; or if a leak in the ductwork to
 the
 cold air registers was blowing cold air out in the attic which would make
 the kleenex billow in (losing air).
 It turned out that the kleenex billowed out which meant that there was a
 leak in the return ductwork in the attic and the house was gaining air from
 the attic.  Where was this excess air going?  I would guess it was going
 out
 through the usual leaks around the doors and windows or even up through the
 range hood vent or other vents.

 When we first built the house about 13 years ago, I did the same kleenex
 test and found that there was a big leak, so I called the company that
 installed the A/C.  He went over it with his gauges and instruments and
 said
 there was no leak.  I tried to explain that since the house was losing or
 gaining air there had to be leak, but I was never able to make him
 understand that there had to be a leak.  After waiting a a couple of weeks
 deciding what to do, I did the test a second time and there was no leak.
 The Kleenex hung straight down.  I guessed that since the ductwork was put
 together with staples and duct tape that a loose area of duct tape had
 resealed itself.
 (Note:  Using a kleenex, I made sure there was no inside or outside air
 movement that might have blown the Kleenex taped in the open window.)

 Since I was only using simple physics for the tests, I'm wondering if the
 A/C guy was right and I was wrong since he knew a lot more than I did about
 ducted A/C systems?
 Thanks,
 Gerry

 
 From: Wilton Strickland
 Several days ago, somebody was talking about doing something stupid.
  Don't
 remember who it was, but be reassured whatever it was probably wasn't so
 stupid.  Now, let me tell you about stupid; THIS was stupid:

 WHERE  IS  ALL  THE  WATER  COMING  FROM?
 By
 Wilton Strickland

 During the summer of 2000, while I was working as a private, independent
 home inspector and building consultant, I received a call from a woman who
 was extremely concerned that her new house had excessive moisture on the
 underside and did not have an adequate vapor barrier.  (A vapor barrier is
 usually formed in the under-floor crawlspace by laying a plastic
 sheet/membrane on the ground to keep water vapor from rising out of the
 ground and through the floor into the house.)  She said she had a wet wall
 and lots of water on the floor in a bathroom; she called a plumber who had
 been unable to find any leak and had told her that her problem was “no
 vapor
 barrier under the house.”  She had

Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid

[drcscruggs]

if you are breathing then you are exhaling CO2, then it would not build up in 
your body.  The burning you feel when you don't take a breath is the CO2 
building up.  The lack of oxygen is what gets you.  If you are in a helium 
atmosphere then you would obviously loose the CO2 and not get the oxygen.  
Hence you are a goner and not even feel the burning of your lungs.  You would 
most likely get a first a little disoriented, which would increase until loss 
of consciousness.  Continued oxygen deprivation would lead to the inevitable 
conclusion.  



The reason one does not die in a closed up house or car is that there is some 
exchange of air even in the most well sealed house or auto.  I know a little 
more about people than houses or cars tho.  cks


-Original Message-
From: Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 9:56 pm
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid







Archer wrote: 

 Maybe someone else on the 
 list can explain why people can survive in a closed up house or car. 
 

The same reason a closed up car fills up with water and sinks in under a 
minute? 
 

Mitch. 
 

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid

[Wilton Strickland]

CO2 level up?  Yes.  Lung-burning?  I don't know.  My bit of hypoxia
knowledge is based on high altitude hypoxia.

Wilton

- Original Message -
From: Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 10:17 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid


 Wilton Strickland wrote:
  Gerry, if you had had hypoxia (lack of oxygen) in the car, you would
have
  NEVER known it or felt anything

 If it's hypoxia due to your own breathing, shouldn't the CO2 level go up
as the
 O2 level goes down? Doesn't the CO2 level get up to the lung-burning
level?

 I recall a couple of idiots who climbed inside a helium inflated something
or
 other, passed out before they realized they weren't getting oxygen, died
soon
 after.
 Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid

[Wilton Strickland]

The two 1875 houses I restored had gas lights; all of the piping and coupla
of the fixtures, electrified years ago, were/are still there.  The gas was
carbide (acetylene?) produced in a little building a half block away.

Wilton

- Original Message -
From: Archer arche...@embarqmail.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 11:03 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid


Hi Wilton,
Old houses are interesting.  When I was a kid we lived in one in Louisville
that was built during the gaslight era; the gas jets were still in place and
still worked.  The walls, and even the inside partitions were so thick,
ductwork was simply slide down inside them when they installed a new furnace
system.  The windows all had panelled folding doors that apparently took
the place of curtains and blinds.  They had been removed and curtain rods
installed before we moved there and they had been put  in the attic. They
made great playhouses.  There was a cistern in the backyard and a garage
opening on to the alley.  Of course, you probably found similar things in
the houses you worked over.
Gerry
-
From: Wilton Strickland
My house has a REAL widow's walk centered on the roof between two chimneys.
The area is accessible via a permanently installed ladder that rises steeply
(but not vertically) about 15 - 18 feet above the attic floor, which is
accessed via a walkup stairway.  At the top of the ladder, one must lift and
push aside a nautical-type hatch to enter onto the widow's walk, which is
surrounded by a Chippendale railing.  House is in Georgian colonial revival
style; steep, slate hip roof; 3 small dormers on front and rear roof areas;
placing of front and rear windows and doors is very symmetrical as are the
chimneys.  Coast is about 100 miles to the east.

Wilton

- Original Message -
From: Archer arche...@embarqmail.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 8:14 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid


Now that you mention it, someone did say something about a smoke test.  One
problem is that the roof was built using prebuilt trusses that make it
nearly impossible to get up there and move around without sticking a foot
through the ceiling drywall.  I probably ought to hire it done.


First time I had ever heard of a widows walk.  Is your house by the sea?
Is there a staircase or ladder going up to the widows walk or is it just
decorative?

A widow's walk (or roofwalk) is a railed rooftop platform, typically on a
coastal house, originally designed to observe vessels at sea. The name comes
from the wives of mariners, who would watch for their spouses' return. In
some instances, the ocean took the lives of the mariners, leaving the women
as widows. The women would often thereafter gaze out to sea wishing beyond
hope that their loved ones would return home and hence the name widow's walk
was born.
Also beyond their use as viewing platforms, they are frequently built around
the chimney of the residence, thus creating an easy access route to the
structure. This allows the residents of the home to pour sand down burning
chimneys in the hope of preventing the house from burning down.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Widow's_walk

Thanks,
Gerry
---
From: Wilton Strickland
'Sounds like you may have an intake/return leak.  I have found several (at
least 3 during the 15 years I inspected domestic systems) with the return
ducts lying COMPLETELY open under houses - ALL the air exiting supply
registers in the house was coming from under the house!  I've seen many
others with lesser leaks, of course.  We do need to be aware of those
possibilities, understand what happens in the system and try to close those
leaks on BOTH sides of the system.  Duct leaks on both sides of the system
do a good job of removing money from our bank accounts and fatten those of
the power companies.

Most heating/cooling system ducts I've seen are VERY poorly installed and
leak like sieves.  Most I've seen are assembled very loosely with worthless
duct tape that falls off 'bout the time the check to the installer clears,
screws or staples with lotsa leaking cracks.  Check the ducts thoroughly and
try to seal them as completely as reasonably possible.  Seal leaks with
mastic and/or a VERY good tape (NOT so-called duct/duck tape) made
specifically for really sealing ducts - the very sticky, shiny, metallic
tape is usually good for it, and there may be better stuff now.  There are
companies who do a pressure (fan door) test of duct systems with aid of
smoke candles to find leaks and then work to seal them.  'Been 8 years
since I did an inspection, so I've lost touch with costs, etc.

Wilton

- Original Message -
From: Archer arche...@embarqmail.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes

Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid

[Wilton Strickland]

Like high alt hypoxia?  I think so, 'cept for effects of increased CO2,
which I don't know, though I think it may hasten the effects.

Wilton

- Original Message -
From: Archer arche...@embarqmail.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 11:20 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid


 Wilton Strickland wrote:
  Gerry, if you had had hypoxia (lack of oxygen) in the car, you would
have
  NEVER known it or felt anything.
 :
 Would it be about the same as a pilot who loses pressurization at high
 altitude?
 Gerry

 If it's hypoxia due to your own breathing, shouldn't the CO2 level go up
as
 the
 O2 level goes down? Doesn't the CO2 level get up to the lung-burning
level?
 I recall a couple of idiots who climbed inside a helium inflated something
 or
 other, passed out before they realized they weren't getting oxygen, died
 soon
 after.
 Mitch

 Often wondered if the CO2 level might have been high in that car because
it
 was some of the soundest sleep I ever had.  I read someplace that birds
put
 their heads under their wings to raise the CO2 level so they can sleep.
 Gerry

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid

[Wilton Strickland]

'Doubt a widow's ever been up there.  'Is a nice view up there; can't see
the beach or any harbor over the horizon.

Wilton

- Original Message -
From: LarryT l02tur...@comcast.net
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 6:55 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid


 you wrote Coast is about 100 miles to the east.

 I hope the widow had a good pair of binoculars! ;-)
 (Sounds like a beautiful home!   Love those slate roofs.)

 LarryT

 - Original Message -
 From: Wilton Strickland wilt...@nc.rr.com
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 11:33 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid


 My house has a REAL widow's walk centered on the roof between two
chimneys.
 The area is accessible via a permanently installed ladder that rises
steeply
 (but not vertically) about 15 - 18 feet above the attic floor, which is
 accessed via a walkup stairway.  At the top of the ladder, one must lift
and
 push aside a nautical-type hatch to enter onto the widow's walk, which is
 surrounded by a Chippendale railing.  House is in Georgian colonial
revival
 style; steep, slate hip roof; 3 small dormers on front and rear roof
areas;
 placing of front and rear windows and doors is very symmetrical as are the
 chimneys.  Coast is about 100 miles to the east.

 Wilton

 [SNIP]


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Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid

[Jim Cathey]

The gas was carbide (acetylene?) produced in a little
building a half block away.


Calcium carbide (CaC2) + water (2H2O) =
 acetylene (C2H2) + calcium hydroxide (Ca(OH)2).

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid

[Wilton Strickland]

Thanks, Jim.  'Was hoping you'd set me straight on that.

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: Jim Cathey j...@windwireless.net
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 9:31 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid


  The gas was carbide (acetylene?) produced in a little
  building a half block away.
 
 Calcium carbide (CaC2) + water (2H2O) =
   acetylene (C2H2) + calcium hydroxide (Ca(OH)2).
 
 -- Jim
 
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid

[Craig McCluskey]

On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 06:31:40 -0800 Jim Cathey j...@windwireless.net
wrote:

  The gas was carbide (acetylene?) produced in a little
  building a half block away.
 
 Calcium carbide (CaC2) + water (2H2O) =
   acetylene (C2H2) + calcium hydroxide (Ca(OH)2).

Yup. Makes the little carbide cannon I have go boom.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid

[Wilton Strickland]

Returns should be sized to comfortably carry all of the supply without
overheating fans/compressors and creating excessive noise, especially at the
return intake.  If the return is not large enough, air at the return
accelerates (and noise increases, whistles, etc.) to keep the necessary
volume up.  Restricted air flow not only makes a system less efficient, it
can overheat and burn out heat pump/cooling system compressors; this is why
it is important to replace filters often - to maintain efficient air flow.
There is a formula or rule-of-thumb the heating/cooling guys use to size
return ducts vs supply ducts; 'knew it years ago; I've forgotten.

Wilton

- Original Message -
From: Peter Hertzing phertz...@gmail.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 8:16 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid


Wilton - Thanks for the great info.  I have question.  Is thier a magic
formula for calculating the amound to return vs. supply?  Should it be
equal, or shoudl one or the other be larger?

Thanks,

Peter

On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 8:45 PM, Wilton Strickland wilt...@nc.rr.comwrote:

 'Sounds like you may have an intake/return leak.  I have found several (at
 least 3 during the 15 years I inspected domestic systems) with the return
 ducts lying COMPLETELY open under houses - ALL the air exiting supply
 registers in the house was coming from under the house!  I've seen many
 others with lesser leaks, of course.  We do need to be aware of those
 possibilities, understand what happens in the system and try to close
those
 leaks on BOTH sides of the system.  Duct leaks on both sides of the system
 do a good job of removing money from our bank accounts and fatten those of
 the power companies.

 Most heating/cooling system ducts I've seen are VERY poorly installed and
 leak like sieves.  Most I've seen are assembled very loosely with
worthless
 duct tape that falls off 'bout the time the check to the installer
 clears,
 screws or staples with lotsa leaking cracks.  Check the ducts thoroughly
 and
 try to seal them as completely as reasonably possible.  Seal leaks with
 mastic and/or a VERY good tape (NOT so-called duct/duck tape) made
 specifically for really sealing ducts - the very sticky, shiny, metallic
 tape is usually good for it, and there may be better stuff now.  There are
 companies who do a pressure (fan door) test of duct systems with aid of
 smoke candles to find leaks and then work to seal them.  'Been 8 years
 since I did an inspection, so I've lost touch with costs, etc.

 Wilton

 - Original Message -
 From: Archer arche...@embarqmail.com
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 3:24 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid


 Hi Wilton,
 Here's another A/C question you or someone else might be able answer.
 Because the electric bill seems high, I suspected that there might be a
 leak
 in the fiberglas ductwork  Since this is a closed A/C system with no
 fresh
 air coming in except when the doors or windows are open, I concluded that
 if
 I opened a window a few inches and taped a kleenex in the opening that I
 could tell if a leak in the return ductwork was sucking in air (gaining
 air)
 which would make the kleenex billow out; or if a leak in the ductwork to
 the
 cold air registers was blowing cold air out in the attic which would make
 the kleenex billow in (losing air).
 It turned out that the kleenex billowed out which meant that there was a
 leak in the return ductwork in the attic and the house was gaining air
from
 the attic.  Where was this excess air going?  I would guess it was going
 out
 through the usual leaks around the doors and windows or even up through
the
 range hood vent or other vents.

 When we first built the house about 13 years ago, I did the same kleenex
 test and found that there was a big leak, so I called the company that
 installed the A/C.  He went over it with his gauges and instruments and
 said
 there was no leak.  I tried to explain that since the house was losing or
 gaining air there had to be leak, but I was never able to make him
 understand that there had to be a leak.  After waiting a a couple of weeks
 deciding what to do, I did the test a second time and there was no leak.
 The Kleenex hung straight down.  I guessed that since the ductwork was put
 together with staples and duct tape that a loose area of duct tape had
 resealed itself.
 (Note:  Using a kleenex, I made sure there was no inside or outside air
 movement that might have blown the Kleenex taped in the open window.)

 Since I was only using simple physics for the tests, I'm wondering if the
 A/C guy was right and I was wrong since he knew a lot more than I did
about
 ducted A/C systems?
 Thanks,
 Gerry

 
 From: Wilton Strickland
 Several days ago, somebody was talking about doing something stupid.
  Don't
 remember who it was, but be reassured whatever

Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid

[Archer]

Archer wrote:

That's exactly what I have; the likely difference being it might have a
lower slope since the roof doesn't have to support ice and snow.  Have
to get up there and try taping some of the joint close by the stairs to
see how it goes..
Thanks,


My folks' house is 32' wide, 4 in 12 pitch. The roof rises a bit over 5' in 
16',

less the space taken up by the truss. You have to stoop but it's manageable.
If it were 24' wide with 3 in 12 pitch, that would involve crawling on your
hands and knees. (3' minus truss structure = not enough)
Mitch.
__
I'll have to find the plans in order to see what the pitch is.  Both the 
living room and master bedroom have cathedral ceilings which probably makes 
the space tigher, but it looks like there is room to get around without 
crawling on hands and knees.
Gerry 
-- next part --


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Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid

[Archer]

 Wilton Strickland wrote:
 Gerry, if you had had hypoxia (lack of oxygen) in the car,
 you would have NEVER known it or felt anything.



Gerry wrote:
Would it be about the same as a pilot who loses
pressurization at high altitude?


Similar. I believe at high altitude the lower air pressure changes how
the lung functions. It's not only the lack of oxygen. Right?

Mitch wrote:

If it's hypoxia due to your own breathing, shouldn't the CO2
level go up as the O2 level goes down? Doesn't the CO2 level
get up to the lung-burning level? I recall a couple of
idiots who climbed inside a helium inflated something or
other, passed out before they realized they weren't getting
oxygen, died soon after.


Could be. The I'm out of air! Let me breath!! is a CO2
trigger. So long as there is a gas in the lungs that will
carry the CO2 away, the human is content. There's no
low-oxygen sensor.
Philip
___
Several people have died in Florida because they breathed heavily for a 
while,  blew all the CO2 out of their lungs, and then swam underwater.  They 
didn't realize they were dangerously low on oxygen, passed out under water, 
and died before anyone realized they were in trouble.  There was no CO2 
trigger to warn them as Phillip points out.
Gerry 
-- next part --


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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid

[Rich Thomas]

Ask Ted Kennedy (D-UI) about that behavior.

--R

Mitch Haley wrote:

Archer wrote:
Maybe someone else on the list can explain why people can survive in 
a closed up house or car.


The same reason a closed up car fills up with water and sinks in under 
a minute?


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid

[Wilton Strickland]

Helluva way to learn.   ;))

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 4:19 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid


 A buddy and I were redoing his bathroom and kitchen below, had to take 
 up the subfloor on bathroom above.  Kept telling him to watch out and 
 only step on joists.  he got a brain fart and stepped on the sheetrock, 
 went through, and landed on his man parts.  He rolled around in agony 
 for sometime and finally got back to work.  He had a child some time 
 later, so I guess he was OK.  He learned quickly though.
 
 --R
 
 Mitch Haley wrote:
  Archer wrote:
  Now that you mention it, someone did say something about a smoke 
  test.  One problem is that the roof was built using prebuilt trusses 
  that make it nearly impossible to get up there and move around 
  without sticking a foot through the ceiling drywall.  I probably 
  ought to hire it done.
 
  I walked the length of my parents' house a couple of months ago. 12 
  fiberglass batts between prebuilt trusses on 24 centers, with 1/2 
  drywall nailed underneath. I put on knee boots and walked on the 
  trusses. Since I was threading my upper body through the truss 
  bracing, there wasn't any danger of losing my balance. The fiberglass 
  popped back up pretty well after I walked on it. Just go slow, don't 
  stomp (you don't want nail pops in the ceiling paint) and put your 
  feet on wood, not gypsum. Oh, and wear a coat you don't mind getting 
  filthy.
 
  Mitch.
 
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid

[Rich Thomas]

A buddy and I were redoing his bathroom and kitchen below, had to take 
up the subfloor on bathroom above.  Kept telling him to watch out and 
only step on joists.  he got a brain fart and stepped on the sheetrock, 
went through, and landed on his man parts.  He rolled around in agony 
for sometime and finally got back to work.  He had a child some time 
later, so I guess he was OK.  He learned quickly though.


--R

Mitch Haley wrote:

Archer wrote:
Now that you mention it, someone did say something about a smoke 
test.  One problem is that the roof was built using prebuilt trusses 
that make it nearly impossible to get up there and move around 
without sticking a foot through the ceiling drywall.  I probably 
ought to hire it done.


I walked the length of my parents' house a couple of months ago. 12 
fiberglass batts between prebuilt trusses on 24 centers, with 1/2 
drywall nailed underneath. I put on knee boots and walked on the 
trusses. Since I was threading my upper body through the truss 
bracing, there wasn't any danger of losing my balance. The fiberglass 
popped back up pretty well after I walked on it. Just go slow, don't 
stomp (you don't want nail pops in the ceiling paint) and put your 
feet on wood, not gypsum. Oh, and wear a coat you don't mind getting 
filthy.


Mitch.



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[MBZ] OT - Stupid

[Wilton Strickland]

Several days ago, somebody was talking about doing something stupid.  Don't
remember who it was, but be reassured whatever it was probably wasn't so
stupid.  Now, let me tell you about stupid; THIS was stupid:

WHERE  IS  ALL  THE  WATER  COMING  FROM?
By
Wilton Strickland

During the summer of 2000, while I was working as a private, independent
home inspector and building consultant, I received a call from a woman who
was extremely concerned that her new house had excessive moisture on the
underside and did not have an adequate vapor barrier.  (A vapor barrier is
usually formed in the under-floor crawlspace by laying a plastic
sheet/membrane on the ground to keep water vapor from rising out of the
ground and through the floor into the house.)  She said she had a wet wall
and lots of water on the floor in a bathroom; she called a plumber who had
been unable to find any leak and had told her that her problem was “no vapor
barrier under the house.”  She had also called a roofer, who could find no
problem with the roof.  Because the house was only a few months old, she
wanted a licensed, professional inspector to document the moisture problem
under the house in order to persuade the builder to correct it.

She had described the house as being a one-story structure of about 1800
square feet.  When I arrived at the house, though, I immediately saw that it
was a “double-wide” manufactured home on a permanent, full masonry
foundation.  From what she had described on the phone, I was expecting to
find a typical “poor drainage” problem around the outside causing water to
accumulate under the house.  Ground around the outside of the house,
however, was well-drained, and quick observations of the underside via the
crawlspace access door and foundation vents revealed a reasonably dry
crawlspace and an intact, factory-installed vapor barrier attached to the
underside of the structure.  While I was walking around the outside, looking
through foundation vents, etc., the lady continued to tell me how wet it was
inside the house, and asking, ”Where is all the water coming from?”

Shortly, I was ready to see the interior and the water that she was
concerned about.  I followed her into the house and into a bathroom, where
the door was standing open against an adjacent wall.  As she pulled the door
away from the wall, I noticed that a large section of wallboard/sheetrock on
the wall had been removed, and the backside of the door, the remaining areas
of the wall and the cabinet in front of the door were dripping wet.  A
couple of wet towels were on the floor beneath the door.  There was a strong
blast of very cold air coming from the heating/cooling register in the floor
behind the door.  She told me that when they removed the wet wallboard, they
found a lot of water accumulated inside the wall.  I knew immediately that
the water was condensation caused by the blast of cold air flowing in the
confined area between the door, the wall and the cabinet.  I laid a
thermometer on top of the cabinet with the probe tip hanging off the edge so
that the air could flow across it.  After a very few minutes, while I began
to explain condensation to the lady, I checked the thermometer and found the
temperature of the air at the top of the cabinet to be 56F!  The wall, the
door and the front of the cabinet were acting as large condensing plates -
water was dripping profusely off the bottom edges of them.

I tried to explain condensation to the lady, but she could not, or would
not, understand me.  First, I tried to get her to understand that the air
all around us contains lots of water as a vapor that we usually don’t see.
Warm air can hold more water than the same air when it is cooler.  When air
cools below the dew point, the temperature at which air is saturated or
holds all the water that it can at that temperature, some of the water vapor
must condense and can be seen as fog, clouds, rain, snow, sleet or hail,
depending on temperature of air that the droplets of water may fall through.
Dew on grass, condensation on the outside of a cold drink glass and the
water dripping from the surfaces in her bathroom are caused by the air in
contact with the cold surfaces being cooled below the dew point.  The
constant blast of very cold air behind the door makes the surfaces cold
enough to cause the condensation to form on them - just like a cold drink
glass and windows inside a car on a cold day.  The lady’s eyes had a
constant “glaze” of  stupidity with no understanding of my explanation of
simple condensation as she continued to ask, “But where is all the water
coming from?”

I tried, again, to tell her that the air all around us just naturally
contains lots of water.  The amount of water in the air is constantly
changing as temperature changes, as weather changes.  The air around us is
saturated, or full of water, when it rains.  After a rain, some of the water
soaks into the ground, much of it evaporates back into the air around us and
rises 

Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid

[Craig McCluskey]

On Sat, 14 Mar 2009 13:25:48 -0500 Wilton Strickland wilt...@nc.rr.com
wrote:

 Several days ago, somebody was talking about doing something stupid. 
 Don't remember who it was, but be reassured whatever it was probably
 wasn't so stupid.  Now, let me tell you about stupid; THIS was stupid:

Oh, my. What a tale.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid

[Rich Thomas]

Well that was me that was stupid working on the brakes and vac on the 
TD, but I understand about condensation and heat and that sort of thing.


--R

Wilton Strickland wrote:

Several days ago, somebody was talking about doing something stupid.  Don't
remember who it was, but be reassured whatever it was probably wasn't so
stupid.  Now, let me tell you about stupid; THIS was stupid:

WHERE  IS  ALL  THE  WATER  COMING  FROM?
By
Wilton Strickland


  


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Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid

[Archer]

Hi Wilton,
Here's another A/C question you or someone else might be able answer.
Because the electric bill seems high, I suspected that there might be a leak 
in the fiberglas ductwork  Since this is a closed A/C system with no fresh 
air coming in except when the doors or windows are open, I concluded that if 
I opened a window a few inches and taped a kleenex in the opening that I 
could tell if a leak in the return ductwork was sucking in air (gaining air) 
which would make the kleenex billow out; or if a leak in the ductwork to the 
cold air registers was blowing cold air out in the attic which would make 
the kleenex billow in (losing air).
It turned out that the kleenex billowed out which meant that there was a 
leak in the return ductwork in the attic and the house was gaining air from 
the attic.  Where was this excess air going?  I would guess it was going out 
through the usual leaks around the doors and windows or even up through the 
range hood vent or other vents.


When we first built the house about 13 years ago, I did the same kleenex 
test and found that there was a big leak, so I called the company that 
installed the A/C.  He went over it with his gauges and instruments and said 
there was no leak.  I tried to explain that since the house was losing or 
gaining air there had to be leak, but I was never able to make him 
understand that there had to be a leak.  After waiting a a couple of weeks 
deciding what to do, I did the test a second time and there was no leak. 
The Kleenex hung straight down.  I guessed that since the ductwork was put 
together with staples and duct tape that a loose area of duct tape had 
resealed itself.
(Note:  Using a kleenex, I made sure there was no inside or outside air 
movement that might have blown the Kleenex taped in the open window.)


Since I was only using simple physics for the tests, I'm wondering if the 
A/C guy was right and I was wrong since he knew a lot more than I did about 
ducted A/C systems?

Thanks,
Gerry


From: Wilton Strickland
Several days ago, somebody was talking about doing something stupid.  Don't
remember who it was, but be reassured whatever it was probably wasn't so
stupid.  Now, let me tell you about stupid; THIS was stupid:

WHERE  IS  ALL  THE  WATER  COMING  FROM?
By
Wilton Strickland

During the summer of 2000, while I was working as a private, independent
home inspector and building consultant, I received a call from a woman who
was extremely concerned that her new house had excessive moisture on the
underside and did not have an adequate vapor barrier.  (A vapor barrier is
usually formed in the under-floor crawlspace by laying a plastic
sheet/membrane on the ground to keep water vapor from rising out of the
ground and through the floor into the house.)  She said she had a wet wall
and lots of water on the floor in a bathroom; she called a plumber who had
been unable to find any leak and had told her that her problem was “no vapor
barrier under the house.”  She had also called a roofer, who could find no
problem with the roof.  Because the house was only a few months old, she
wanted a licensed, professional inspector to document the moisture problem
under the house in order to persuade the builder to correct it.

She had described the house as being a one-story structure of about 1800
square feet.  When I arrived at the house, though, I immediately saw that it
was a “double-wide” manufactured home on a permanent, full masonry
foundation.  From what she had described on the phone, I was expecting to
find a typical “poor drainage” problem around the outside causing water to
accumulate under the house.  Ground around the outside of the house,
however, was well-drained, and quick observations of the underside via the
crawlspace access door and foundation vents revealed a reasonably dry
crawlspace and an intact, factory-installed vapor barrier attached to the
underside of the structure.  While I was walking around the outside, looking
through foundation vents, etc., the lady continued to tell me how wet it was
inside the house, and asking, ”Where is all the water coming from?”

Shortly, I was ready to see the interior and the water that she was
concerned about.  I followed her into the house and into a bathroom, where
the door was standing open against an adjacent wall.  As she pulled the door
away from the wall, I noticed that a large section of wallboard/sheetrock on
the wall had been removed, and the backside of the door, the remaining areas
of the wall and the cabinet in front of the door were dripping wet.  A
couple of wet towels were on the floor beneath the door.  There was a strong
blast of very cold air coming from the heating/cooling register in the floor
behind the door.  She told me that when they removed the wet wallboard, they
found a lot of water accumulated inside the wall.  I knew immediately that
the water was condensation caused by the blast of cold air 

Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid

[Wilton Strickland]

'Sounds like you may have an intake/return leak.  I have found several (at
least 3 during the 15 years I inspected domestic systems) with the return
ducts lying COMPLETELY open under houses - ALL the air exiting supply
registers in the house was coming from under the house!  I've seen many
others with lesser leaks, of course.  We do need to be aware of those
possibilities, understand what happens in the system and try to close those
leaks on BOTH sides of the system.  Duct leaks on both sides of the system
do a good job of removing money from our bank accounts and fatten those of
the power companies.

Most heating/cooling system ducts I've seen are VERY poorly installed and
leak like sieves.  Most I've seen are assembled very loosely with worthless
duct tape that falls off 'bout the time the check to the installer clears,
screws or staples with lotsa leaking cracks.  Check the ducts thoroughly and
try to seal them as completely as reasonably possible.  Seal leaks with
mastic and/or a VERY good tape (NOT so-called duct/duck tape) made
specifically for really sealing ducts - the very sticky, shiny, metallic
tape is usually good for it, and there may be better stuff now.  There are
companies who do a pressure (fan door) test of duct systems with aid of
smoke candles to find leaks and then work to seal them.  'Been 8 years
since I did an inspection, so I've lost touch with costs, etc.

Wilton

- Original Message -
From: Archer arche...@embarqmail.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 3:24 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid


Hi Wilton,
Here's another A/C question you or someone else might be able answer.
Because the electric bill seems high, I suspected that there might be a leak
in the fiberglas ductwork  Since this is a closed A/C system with no fresh
air coming in except when the doors or windows are open, I concluded that if
I opened a window a few inches and taped a kleenex in the opening that I
could tell if a leak in the return ductwork was sucking in air (gaining air)
which would make the kleenex billow out; or if a leak in the ductwork to the
cold air registers was blowing cold air out in the attic which would make
the kleenex billow in (losing air).
It turned out that the kleenex billowed out which meant that there was a
leak in the return ductwork in the attic and the house was gaining air from
the attic.  Where was this excess air going?  I would guess it was going out
through the usual leaks around the doors and windows or even up through the
range hood vent or other vents.

When we first built the house about 13 years ago, I did the same kleenex
test and found that there was a big leak, so I called the company that
installed the A/C.  He went over it with his gauges and instruments and said
there was no leak.  I tried to explain that since the house was losing or
gaining air there had to be leak, but I was never able to make him
understand that there had to be a leak.  After waiting a a couple of weeks
deciding what to do, I did the test a second time and there was no leak.
The Kleenex hung straight down.  I guessed that since the ductwork was put
together with staples and duct tape that a loose area of duct tape had
resealed itself.
(Note:  Using a kleenex, I made sure there was no inside or outside air
movement that might have blown the Kleenex taped in the open window.)

Since I was only using simple physics for the tests, I'm wondering if the
A/C guy was right and I was wrong since he knew a lot more than I did about
ducted A/C systems?
Thanks,
Gerry


From: Wilton Strickland
Several days ago, somebody was talking about doing something stupid.  Don't
remember who it was, but be reassured whatever it was probably wasn't so
stupid.  Now, let me tell you about stupid; THIS was stupid:

WHERE  IS  ALL  THE  WATER  COMING  FROM?
By
Wilton Strickland

During the summer of 2000, while I was working as a private, independent
home inspector and building consultant, I received a call from a woman who
was extremely concerned that her new house had excessive moisture on the
underside and did not have an adequate vapor barrier.  (A vapor barrier is
usually formed in the under-floor crawlspace by laying a plastic
sheet/membrane on the ground to keep water vapor from rising out of the
ground and through the floor into the house.)  She said she had a wet wall
and lots of water on the floor in a bathroom; she called a plumber who had
been unable to find any leak and had told her that her problem was “no vapor
barrier under the house.”  She had also called a roofer, who could find no
problem with the roof.  Because the house was only a few months old, she
wanted a licensed, professional inspector to document the moisture problem
under the house in order to persuade the builder to correct it.

She had described the house as being a one-story structure of about 1800
square feet.  When I arrived at the house

Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid

[brian . toscano]

That's what I do...  I figure the cycling doesn't help anyone but honeywell.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-Original Message-
From: Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu

Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 20:59:36 
To: Mercedes Discussion Listmercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid


Sort of on the subject -- I installed a programmable thermostat at the
beginning of February.  My gas usage, compared to the previous February,
DOUBLED.  And the average temperature was about 1 degree warmer this
year.

I'm not happy.  Evidently, in the case of my house, maintaining a set
temperature 24/7 is more efficient than letting the house cool off at
night and warming it back up in the morning.

Allan

-- 
1983 300D

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid

[Archer]

Now that you mention it, someone did say something about a smoke test.  One 
problem is that the roof was built using prebuilt trusses that make it 
nearly impossible to get up there and move around without sticking a foot 
through the ceiling drywall.  I probably ought to hire it done.


First time I had ever heard of a widows walk.  Is your house by the sea? 
Is there a staircase or ladder going up to the widows walk or is it just 
decorative?


A widow's walk (or roofwalk) is a railed rooftop platform, typically on a 
coastal house, originally designed to observe vessels at sea. The name comes 
from the wives of mariners, who would watch for their spouses' return. In 
some instances, the ocean took the lives of the mariners, leaving the women 
as widows. The women would often thereafter gaze out to sea wishing beyond 
hope that their loved ones would return home and hence the name widow's walk 
was born.
Also beyond their use as viewing platforms, they are frequently built around 
the chimney of the residence, thus creating an easy access route to the 
structure. This allows the residents of the home to pour sand down burning 
chimneys in the hope of preventing the house from burning down.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Widow's_walk

Thanks,
Gerry
---
From: Wilton Strickland
'Sounds like you may have an intake/return leak.  I have found several (at
least 3 during the 15 years I inspected domestic systems) with the return
ducts lying COMPLETELY open under houses - ALL the air exiting supply
registers in the house was coming from under the house!  I've seen many
others with lesser leaks, of course.  We do need to be aware of those
possibilities, understand what happens in the system and try to close those
leaks on BOTH sides of the system.  Duct leaks on both sides of the system
do a good job of removing money from our bank accounts and fatten those of
the power companies.

Most heating/cooling system ducts I've seen are VERY poorly installed and
leak like sieves.  Most I've seen are assembled very loosely with worthless
duct tape that falls off 'bout the time the check to the installer clears,
screws or staples with lotsa leaking cracks.  Check the ducts thoroughly and
try to seal them as completely as reasonably possible.  Seal leaks with
mastic and/or a VERY good tape (NOT so-called duct/duck tape) made
specifically for really sealing ducts - the very sticky, shiny, metallic
tape is usually good for it, and there may be better stuff now.  There are
companies who do a pressure (fan door) test of duct systems with aid of
smoke candles to find leaks and then work to seal them.  'Been 8 years
since I did an inspection, so I've lost touch with costs, etc.

Wilton

- Original Message -
From: Archer arche...@embarqmail.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 3:24 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid


Hi Wilton,
Here's another A/C question you or someone else might be able answer.
Because the electric bill seems high, I suspected that there might be a leak
in the fiberglas ductwork  Since this is a closed A/C system with no fresh
air coming in except when the doors or windows are open, I concluded that if
I opened a window a few inches and taped a kleenex in the opening that I
could tell if a leak in the return ductwork was sucking in air (gaining air)
which would make the kleenex billow out; or if a leak in the ductwork to the
cold air registers was blowing cold air out in the attic which would make
the kleenex billow in (losing air).
It turned out that the kleenex billowed out which meant that there was a
leak in the return ductwork in the attic and the house was gaining air from
the attic.  Where was this excess air going?  I would guess it was going out
through the usual leaks around the doors and windows or even up through the
range hood vent or other vents.

When we first built the house about 13 years ago, I did the same kleenex
test and found that there was a big leak, so I called the company that
installed the A/C.  He went over it with his gauges and instruments and said
there was no leak.  I tried to explain that since the house was losing or
gaining air there had to be leak, but I was never able to make him
understand that there had to be a leak.  After waiting a a couple of weeks
deciding what to do, I did the test a second time and there was no leak.
The Kleenex hung straight down.  I guessed that since the ductwork was put
together with staples and duct tape that a loose area of duct tape had
resealed itself.
(Note:  Using a kleenex, I made sure there was no inside or outside air
movement that might have blown the Kleenex taped in the open window.)

Since I was only using simple physics for the tests, I'm wondering if the
A/C guy was right and I was wrong since he knew a lot more than I did about
ducted A/C

Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid

[Allan Streib]

Sort of on the subject -- I installed a programmable thermostat at the
beginning of February.  My gas usage, compared to the previous February,
DOUBLED.  And the average temperature was about 1 degree warmer this
year.

I'm not happy.  Evidently, in the case of my house, maintaining a set
temperature 24/7 is more efficient than letting the house cool off at
night and warming it back up in the morning.

Allan

-- 
1983 300D

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid

[Curt Raymond]

Umm, this may be a stupid question too but if theres no air loss somewhere to 
be made up somewhere else wouldn't you eventually breathe up all the oxygen in 
the house and die?

-Curt


Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 16:24:25 -0400
From: Archer arche...@embarqmail.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Message-ID: 41520a1f1ce647e8bbd2d3053a3e5...@billardef4d8b3
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; Format=flowed

Hi Wilton,
Here's another A/C question you or someone else might be able answer.
Because the electric bill seems high, I suspected that there might be a leak 
in the fiberglas ductwork  Since this is a closed A/C system with no fresh 
air coming in except when the doors or windows are open, I concluded that if 
I opened a window a few inches and taped a kleenex in the opening that I 
could tell if a leak in the return ductwork was sucking in air (gaining air) 
which would make the kleenex billow out; or if a leak in the ductwork to the 
cold air registers was blowing cold air out in the attic which would make 
the kleenex billow in (losing air).
It turned out that the kleenex billowed out which meant that there was a 
leak in the return ductwork in the attic and the house was gaining air from 
the attic.  Where was this excess air going?  I would guess it was going out 
through the usual leaks around the doors and windows or even up through the 
range hood vent or other vents.

When we first built the house about 13 years ago, I did the same kleenex 
test and found that there was a big leak, so I called the company that 
installed the A/C.  He went over it with his gauges and instruments and said 
there was no leak.  I tried to explain that since the house was losing or 
gaining air there had to be leak, but I was never able to make him 
understand that there had to be a leak.  After waiting a a couple of weeks 
deciding what to do, I did the test a second time and there was no leak. 
The Kleenex hung straight down.  I guessed that since the ductwork was put 
together with staples and duct tape that a loose area of duct tape had 
resealed itself.
(Note:  Using a kleenex, I made sure there was no inside or outside air 
movement that might have blown the Kleenex taped in the open window.)

Since I was only using simple physics for the tests, I'm wondering if the 
A/C guy was right and I was wrong since he knew a lot more than I did about 
ducted A/C systems?
Thanks,
Gerry



  
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid

[Archer]

From: Curt Raymond
Umm, this may be a stupid question too but if theres no air loss somewhere 
to be made up somewhere else wouldn't you eventually breathe up all the 
oxygen in the house and die?

-Curt

Hi Curt,
I've wondered about that myself because I used to pull in a rest area and 
sleep sometimes four hours on the way home from work on weekends.  The old 
'67 200D would have all the windows shut tight yet I never felt short of 
breath or had ill effects from it.  Maybe someone else on the list can 
explain why people can survive in a closed up house or car.

Gerry


Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 16:24:25 -0400
From: Archer arche...@embarqmail.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Message-ID: 41520a1f1ce647e8bbd2d3053a3e5...@billardef4d8b3
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; Format=flowed

Hi Wilton,
Here's another A/C question you or someone else might be able answer.
Because the electric bill seems high, I suspected that there might be a leak
in the fiberglas ductwork Since this is a closed A/C system with no fresh
air coming in except when the doors or windows are open, I concluded that if
I opened a window a few inches and taped a kleenex in the opening that I
could tell if a leak in the return ductwork was sucking in air (gaining air)
which would make the kleenex billow out; or if a leak in the ductwork to the
cold air registers was blowing cold air out in the attic which would make
the kleenex billow in (losing air).
It turned out that the kleenex billowed out which meant that there was a
leak in the return ductwork in the attic and the house was gaining air from
the attic. Where was this excess air going? I would guess it was going out
through the usual leaks around the doors and windows or even up through the
range hood vent or other vents.

When we first built the house about 13 years ago, I did the same kleenex
test and found that there was a big leak, so I called the company that
installed the A/C. He went over it with his gauges and instruments and said
there was no leak. I tried to explain that since the house was losing or
gaining air there had to be leak, but I was never able to make him
understand that there had to be a leak. After waiting a a couple of weeks
deciding what to do, I did the test a second time and there was no leak.
The Kleenex hung straight down. I guessed that since the ductwork was put
together with staples and duct tape that a loose area of duct tape had
resealed itself.
(Note: Using a kleenex, I made sure there was no inside or outside air
movement that might have blown the Kleenex taped in the open window.)

Since I was only using simple physics for the tests, I'm wondering if the
A/C guy was right and I was wrong since he knew a lot more than I did about
ducted A/C systems?
Thanks,
Gerry 
-- next part --


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Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid

[Wilton Strickland]

My house has a REAL widow's walk centered on the roof between two chimneys.
The area is accessible via a permanently installed ladder that rises steeply
(but not vertically) about 15 - 18 feet above the attic floor, which is
accessed via a walkup stairway.  At the top of the ladder, one must lift and
push aside a nautical-type hatch to enter onto the widow's walk, which is
surrounded by a Chippendale railing.  House is in Georgian colonial revival
style; steep, slate hip roof; 3 small dormers on front and rear roof areas;
placing of front and rear windows and doors is very symmetrical as are the
chimneys.  Coast is about 100 miles to the east.

Wilton

- Original Message -
From: Archer arche...@embarqmail.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 8:14 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid


Now that you mention it, someone did say something about a smoke test.  One
problem is that the roof was built using prebuilt trusses that make it
nearly impossible to get up there and move around without sticking a foot
through the ceiling drywall.  I probably ought to hire it done.


First time I had ever heard of a widows walk.  Is your house by the sea?
Is there a staircase or ladder going up to the widows walk or is it just
decorative?

A widow's walk (or roofwalk) is a railed rooftop platform, typically on a
coastal house, originally designed to observe vessels at sea. The name comes
from the wives of mariners, who would watch for their spouses' return. In
some instances, the ocean took the lives of the mariners, leaving the women
as widows. The women would often thereafter gaze out to sea wishing beyond
hope that their loved ones would return home and hence the name widow's walk
was born.
Also beyond their use as viewing platforms, they are frequently built around
the chimney of the residence, thus creating an easy access route to the
structure. This allows the residents of the home to pour sand down burning
chimneys in the hope of preventing the house from burning down.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Widow's_walk

Thanks,
Gerry
---
From: Wilton Strickland
'Sounds like you may have an intake/return leak.  I have found several (at
least 3 during the 15 years I inspected domestic systems) with the return
ducts lying COMPLETELY open under houses - ALL the air exiting supply
registers in the house was coming from under the house!  I've seen many
others with lesser leaks, of course.  We do need to be aware of those
possibilities, understand what happens in the system and try to close those
leaks on BOTH sides of the system.  Duct leaks on both sides of the system
do a good job of removing money from our bank accounts and fatten those of
the power companies.

Most heating/cooling system ducts I've seen are VERY poorly installed and
leak like sieves.  Most I've seen are assembled very loosely with worthless
duct tape that falls off 'bout the time the check to the installer clears,
screws or staples with lotsa leaking cracks.  Check the ducts thoroughly and
try to seal them as completely as reasonably possible.  Seal leaks with
mastic and/or a VERY good tape (NOT so-called duct/duck tape) made
specifically for really sealing ducts - the very sticky, shiny, metallic
tape is usually good for it, and there may be better stuff now.  There are
companies who do a pressure (fan door) test of duct systems with aid of
smoke candles to find leaks and then work to seal them.  'Been 8 years
since I did an inspection, so I've lost touch with costs, etc.

Wilton

- Original Message -
From: Archer arche...@embarqmail.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 3:24 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid


Hi Wilton,
Here's another A/C question you or someone else might be able answer.
Because the electric bill seems high, I suspected that there might be a leak
in the fiberglas ductwork  Since this is a closed A/C system with no fresh
air coming in except when the doors or windows are open, I concluded that if
I opened a window a few inches and taped a kleenex in the opening that I
could tell if a leak in the return ductwork was sucking in air (gaining air)
which would make the kleenex billow out; or if a leak in the ductwork to the
cold air registers was blowing cold air out in the attic which would make
the kleenex billow in (losing air).
It turned out that the kleenex billowed out which meant that there was a
leak in the return ductwork in the attic and the house was gaining air from
the attic.  Where was this excess air going?  I would guess it was going out
through the usual leaks around the doors and windows or even up through the
range hood vent or other vents.

When we first built the house about 13 years ago, I did the same kleenex
test and found that there was a big leak, so I called the company

Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid

[Mitch Haley]

Archer wrote:
Now that you mention it, someone did say something about a smoke test.  
One problem is that the roof was built using prebuilt trusses that make 
it nearly impossible to get up there and move around without sticking a 
foot through the ceiling drywall.  I probably ought to hire it done.


I walked the length of my parents' house a couple of months ago. 12 fiberglass 
batts between prebuilt trusses on 24 centers, with 1/2 drywall nailed 
underneath. I put on knee boots and walked on the trusses. Since I was threading 
my upper body through the truss bracing, there wasn't any danger of losing my 
balance. The fiberglass popped back up pretty well after I walked on it. Just go 
slow, don't stomp (you don't want nail pops in the ceiling paint) and put your 
feet on wood, not gypsum. Oh, and wear a coat you don't mind getting filthy.


Mitch.



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Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid

[Curt Raymond]

Must be the same reason, cars have vents. If they didn't and you put on the 
blower set to draw air from outside the windows would blow out...

I know people with newer houses have trouble with woodstoves because the stove 
can draw too much combustion air and... Not a problem where I live for sure.

-Curt

Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 22:20:49 -0400
From: Archer arche...@embarqmail.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Message-ID: 6e4f442da42249c58e2d3c07f864a...@billardef4d8b3
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; Format=flowed

From: Curt Raymond
Umm, this may be a stupid question too but if theres no air loss somewhere 
to be made up somewhere else wouldn't you eventually breathe up all the 
oxygen in the house and die?
-Curt

Hi Curt,
I've wondered about that myself because I used to pull in a rest area and 
sleep sometimes four hours on the way home from work on weekends.  The old 
'67 200D would have all the windows shut tight yet I never felt short of 
breath or had ill effects from it.  Maybe someone else on the list can 
explain why people can survive in a closed up house or car.
Gerry


  
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid

[Mitch Haley]

Allan Streib wrote:

Sort of on the subject -- I installed a programmable thermostat at the
beginning of February.  My gas usage, compared to the previous February,
DOUBLED.  And the average temperature was about 1 degree warmer this
year.


Do they read the meter every month or do they estimate sometimes?

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid

[Wilton Strickland]

'Could, IF the space were COMPLETELY sealed.  Wood, gas and oil fired
furnaces, fireplaces, etc., MUST have make-up air for combustion and
chimney losses and/or to vent combustion gases, carbon monoxide, etc.  A
house so tight so as to pose a danger of hypoxia (lack of oxygen) is
extremely rare - doors, windows, floors, ceilings are VERY rarely completely
sealed.  With the push for the last 15 to 20 years to make houses more
energy efficient, there IS some danger of making one too tight, but that
danger leans more toward not allowing harmful vapors/chemicals to escape,
rather than lack of oxygen.

Wilton

- Original Message -
From: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com
To: Diesel List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 8:44 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid


Umm, this may be a stupid question too but if theres no air loss somewhere
to be made up somewhere else wouldn't you eventually breathe up all the
oxygen in the house and die?

-Curt


Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 16:24:25 -0400
From: Archer arche...@embarqmail.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Message-ID: 41520a1f1ce647e8bbd2d3053a3e5...@billardef4d8b3
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; Format=flowed

Hi Wilton,
Here's another A/C question you or someone else might be able answer.
Because the electric bill seems high, I suspected that there might be a leak
in the fiberglas ductwork Since this is a closed A/C system with no fresh
air coming in except when the doors or windows are open, I concluded that if
I opened a window a few inches and taped a kleenex in the opening that I
could tell if a leak in the return ductwork was sucking in air (gaining air)
which would make the kleenex billow out; or if a leak in the ductwork to the
cold air registers was blowing cold air out in the attic which would make
the kleenex billow in (losing air).
It turned out that the kleenex billowed out which meant that there was a
leak in the return ductwork in the attic and the house was gaining air from
the attic. Where was this excess air going? I would guess it was going out
through the usual leaks around the doors and windows or even up through the
range hood vent or other vents.

When we first built the house about 13 years ago, I did the same kleenex
test and found that there was a big leak, so I called the company that
installed the A/C. He went over it with his gauges and instruments and said
there was no leak. I tried to explain that since the house was losing or
gaining air there had to be leak, but I was never able to make him
understand that there had to be a leak. After waiting a a couple of weeks
deciding what to do, I did the test a second time and there was no leak.
The Kleenex hung straight down. I guessed that since the ductwork was put
together with staples and duct tape that a loose area of duct tape had
resealed itself.
(Note: Using a kleenex, I made sure there was no inside or outside air
movement that might have blown the Kleenex taped in the open window.)

Since I was only using simple physics for the tests, I'm wondering if the
A/C guy was right and I was wrong since he knew a lot more than I did about
ducted A/C systems?
Thanks,
Gerry




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Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid

[Mitch Haley]

Archer wrote:
Maybe someone else on the 
list can explain why people can survive in a closed up house or car.


The same reason a closed up car fills up with water and sinks in under a minute?

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid

[Wilton Strickland]

Gerry, if you had had hypoxia (lack of oxygen) in the car, you would have
NEVER known it or felt anything - like the guys on the flight from FL to
somewhere in upper Midwest several years ago - one of 'em was a pro golfer,
I think.  In the movies, when trying to dramatize hypoxia, they go to
coughing, gasping, etc., - ain't like that at all - may slowly get slightly
euphoric, thinking everything's fine, may not be able to think as fast as
normal and just doze off - gone.
IT IS DANGEROUS TO CLOSE YOURSELF UP IN A WELL-SEALED VEHICLE - OUGHT TO
LEAVE AT LEAST A SMALL OPENING OF SOME TYPE.

Wilton

- Original Message -
From: Archer arche...@embarqmail.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:20 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid


 From: Curt Raymond
 Umm, this may be a stupid question too but if theres no air loss somewhere
 to be made up somewhere else wouldn't you eventually breathe up all the
 oxygen in the house and die?
 -Curt

 Hi Curt,
 I've wondered about that myself because I used to pull in a rest area and
 sleep sometimes four hours on the way home from work on weekends.  The old
 '67 200D would have all the windows shut tight yet I never felt short of
 breath or had ill effects from it.  Maybe someone else on the list can
 explain why people can survive in a closed up house or car.
 Gerry


 Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 16:24:25 -0400
 From: Archer arche...@embarqmail.com
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Message-ID: 41520a1f1ce647e8bbd2d3053a3e5...@billardef4d8b3
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; Format=flowed

 Hi Wilton,
 Here's another A/C question you or someone else might be able answer.
 Because the electric bill seems high, I suspected that there might be a
leak
 in the fiberglas ductwork Since this is a closed A/C system with no
fresh
 air coming in except when the doors or windows are open, I concluded that
if
 I opened a window a few inches and taped a kleenex in the opening that I
 could tell if a leak in the return ductwork was sucking in air (gaining
air)
 which would make the kleenex billow out; or if a leak in the ductwork to
the
 cold air registers was blowing cold air out in the attic which would make
 the kleenex billow in (losing air).
 It turned out that the kleenex billowed out which meant that there was a
 leak in the return ductwork in the attic and the house was gaining air
from
 the attic. Where was this excess air going? I would guess it was going out
 through the usual leaks around the doors and windows or even up through
the
 range hood vent or other vents.

 When we first built the house about 13 years ago, I did the same kleenex
 test and found that there was a big leak, so I called the company that
 installed the A/C. He went over it with his gauges and instruments and
said
 there was no leak. I tried to explain that since the house was losing or
 gaining air there had to be leak, but I was never able to make him
 understand that there had to be a leak. After waiting a a couple of weeks
 deciding what to do, I did the test a second time and there was no leak.
 The Kleenex hung straight down. I guessed that since the ductwork was put
 together with staples and duct tape that a loose area of duct tape had
 resealed itself.
 (Note: Using a kleenex, I made sure there was no inside or outside air
 movement that might have blown the Kleenex taped in the open window.)

 Since I was only using simple physics for the tests, I'm wondering if the
 A/C guy was right and I was wrong since he knew a lot more than I did
about
 ducted A/C systems?
 Thanks,
 Gerry
 -- next part --

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06:54:00
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid

[Mitch Haley]

Wilton Strickland wrote:

Gerry, if you had had hypoxia (lack of oxygen) in the car, you would have
NEVER known it or felt anything 


If it's hypoxia due to your own breathing, shouldn't the CO2 level go up as the 
O2 level goes down? Doesn't the CO2 level get up to the lung-burning level?


I recall a couple of idiots who climbed inside a helium inflated something or 
other, passed out before they realized they weren't getting oxygen, died soon 
after.

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid

[Archer]

Hi Wilton,
Old houses are interesting.  When I was a kid we lived in one in Louisville 
that was built during the gaslight era; the gas jets were still in place and 
still worked.  The walls, and even the inside partitions were so thick, 
ductwork was simply slide down inside them when they installed a new furnace 
system.  The windows all had panelled folding doors that apparently took 
the place of curtains and blinds.  They had been removed and curtain rods 
installed before we moved there and they had been put  in the attic. They 
made great playhouses.  There was a cistern in the backyard and a garage 
opening on to the alley.  Of course, you probably found similar things in 
the houses you worked over.

Gerry
-
From: Wilton Strickland
My house has a REAL widow's walk centered on the roof between two chimneys.
The area is accessible via a permanently installed ladder that rises steeply
(but not vertically) about 15 - 18 feet above the attic floor, which is
accessed via a walkup stairway.  At the top of the ladder, one must lift and
push aside a nautical-type hatch to enter onto the widow's walk, which is
surrounded by a Chippendale railing.  House is in Georgian colonial revival
style; steep, slate hip roof; 3 small dormers on front and rear roof areas;
placing of front and rear windows and doors is very symmetrical as are the
chimneys.  Coast is about 100 miles to the east.

Wilton

- Original Message -
From: Archer arche...@embarqmail.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 8:14 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid


Now that you mention it, someone did say something about a smoke test.  One
problem is that the roof was built using prebuilt trusses that make it
nearly impossible to get up there and move around without sticking a foot
through the ceiling drywall.  I probably ought to hire it done.


First time I had ever heard of a widows walk.  Is your house by the sea?
Is there a staircase or ladder going up to the widows walk or is it just
decorative?

A widow's walk (or roofwalk) is a railed rooftop platform, typically on a
coastal house, originally designed to observe vessels at sea. The name comes
from the wives of mariners, who would watch for their spouses' return. In
some instances, the ocean took the lives of the mariners, leaving the women
as widows. The women would often thereafter gaze out to sea wishing beyond
hope that their loved ones would return home and hence the name widow's walk
was born.
Also beyond their use as viewing platforms, they are frequently built around
the chimney of the residence, thus creating an easy access route to the
structure. This allows the residents of the home to pour sand down burning
chimneys in the hope of preventing the house from burning down.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Widow's_walk

Thanks,
Gerry
---
From: Wilton Strickland
'Sounds like you may have an intake/return leak.  I have found several (at
least 3 during the 15 years I inspected domestic systems) with the return
ducts lying COMPLETELY open under houses - ALL the air exiting supply
registers in the house was coming from under the house!  I've seen many
others with lesser leaks, of course.  We do need to be aware of those
possibilities, understand what happens in the system and try to close those
leaks on BOTH sides of the system.  Duct leaks on both sides of the system
do a good job of removing money from our bank accounts and fatten those of
the power companies.

Most heating/cooling system ducts I've seen are VERY poorly installed and
leak like sieves.  Most I've seen are assembled very loosely with worthless
duct tape that falls off 'bout the time the check to the installer clears,
screws or staples with lotsa leaking cracks.  Check the ducts thoroughly and
try to seal them as completely as reasonably possible.  Seal leaks with
mastic and/or a VERY good tape (NOT so-called duct/duck tape) made
specifically for really sealing ducts - the very sticky, shiny, metallic
tape is usually good for it, and there may be better stuff now.  There are
companies who do a pressure (fan door) test of duct systems with aid of
smoke candles to find leaks and then work to seal them.  'Been 8 years
since I did an inspection, so I've lost touch with costs, etc.

Wilton

- Original Message -
From: Archer arche...@embarqmail.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 3:24 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid


Hi Wilton,
Here's another A/C question you or someone else might be able answer.
Because the electric bill seems high, I suspected that there might be a leak
in the fiberglas ductwork  Since this is a closed A/C system with no fresh
air coming in except when the doors or windows are open, I concluded that if
I opened a window

Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid

[Archer]

Archer wrote:

Maybe someone else on the
list can explain why people can survive in a closed up house or car.


The same reason a closed up car fills up with water and sinks in under a 
minute?

Mitch.
__
That's probably it.
Gerry 
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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid

[Archer]

Archer wrote:

Now that you mention it, someone did say something about a smoke test.
One problem is that the roof was built using prebuilt trusses that make
it nearly impossible to get up there and move around without sticking a
foot through the ceiling drywall.  I probably ought to hire it done.


I walked the length of my parents' house a couple of months ago. 12 
fiberglass

batts between prebuilt trusses on 24 centers, with 1/2 drywall nailed
underneath. I put on knee boots and walked on the trusses. Since I was 
threading
my upper body through the truss bracing, there wasn't any danger of losing 
my
balance. The fiberglass popped back up pretty well after I walked on it. 
Just go
slow, don't stomp (you don't want nail pops in the ceiling paint) and put 
your

feet on wood, not gypsum. Oh, and wear a coat you don't mind getting filthy.
Mitch.
___
Hi Mitch,
That's exactly what I have; the likely difference being it might have a 
lower slope since the roof doesn't have to support ice and snow.  Have to 
get up there and try taping some of the joint close by the stairs to see how 
it goes..

Thanks,
Gerry 
-- next part --


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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: 03/14/09 06:54:00

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Stupid

[Archer]

Wilton Strickland wrote:

Gerry, if you had had hypoxia (lack of oxygen) in the car, you would have
NEVER known it or felt anything.

:
Would it be about the same as a pilot who loses pressurization at high 
altitude?

Gerry

If it's hypoxia due to your own breathing, shouldn't the CO2 level go up as 
the

O2 level goes down? Doesn't the CO2 level get up to the lung-burning level?
I recall a couple of idiots who climbed inside a helium inflated something 
or
other, passed out before they realized they weren't getting oxygen, died 
soon

after.
Mitch

Often wondered if the CO2 level might have been high in that car because it 
was some of the soundest sleep I ever had.  I read someplace that birds put 
their heads under their wings to raise the CO2 level so they can sleep.

Gerry

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[MBZ] OT: stupid dog

[Curt Raymond]

I need to stop working from home I guess, back in late July I worked from home 
on day and the dog had a bad reaction to a distemper shot and had to spend the 
afternoon in the clinic.
Today he ate a caterpillar and is now eating all the grass he can reach while 
having dry heaves.
Actually the heaves have subsided. I called the vet and they said he'll be okay 
but will probably want a bland diet for awhile. A google search pretty much 
confirmed that.
I think he ate an eastern tent caterpillar (we call 'em army worms here) which 
would only be a problem if he were a mare ready to give birth

-Curt



  
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