Re: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane
Mm-hmm; that turns out to be the one for which I was suggesting some google
keywords a day or two ago:
"Philadelphia City Paper, November 17-23, 2005
...fascinating and improbably hilarious...Bagnall keeps the book from becoming
circuit porn for Byte! buffs by focusing on characters.
Book Description
Filled with first-hand accounts of ambition, greed, and inspired engineering,
this history of the personal computer revolution takes readers inside the
cutthroat world of Commodore. Before Apple, IBM, or Dell, Commodore was the
first computer maker to market its machines to the public, selling an estimated
22 million Commodore 64s. These halcyon days were tumultuous, however, owing to
the expectations and unsparing tactics of founder Jack Tramiel. Engineers and
managers with the company between 1976 and 1994 share their experiences of the
groundbreaking moments, soaring business highs, and stunning employee turnover
that came along with being on top of the PC world in the early days.
Product Details
Hardcover: 548 pages
Publisher: Variant Press (September 14, 2005)
Language: English
ISBN-10: 0973864907
ISBN-13: 978-0973864908 "
USD ~20.
Again, some Amazon verbiage (another editorial review?) ties in with Sinclair,
claiming Commodore's early success was a prime reason for Sinclair ('s) getting
knocked out of the game.
Doug 37830 USA
-Original Message-
>From: Rick Chagouri-Brindle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Feb 14, 2007 9:46 AM
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Re: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane
>
>
>>
>> Commodore was an important player here is the UK.
>>
>> Eventually they went for the then emerging PC market, and more or less
>> lost out.
>>
>I would recommend anyone interested in the Commodore story read "On the
>Edge - The Spectacular Rise and Fall of Commodore" - it makes a
>fascinating read.
>___
>QL-Users Mailing List
>http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
___
QL-Users Mailing List
http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Dilwyn Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >>>As an example of variety, I'll mention my confuser (computer :-) >>>room: >>>Three Macs (two of them laptops), two PCs (One 733, the other >>>133[!], a >>>custom build long ago), and several QLs (many still in styrofoam >>>boxes; >>>one somewhat working). Yes, internet connectivity for four of the >>>above. All as old as about 1999 or farther back, with OS's as old as >>>98SE or QDOS, or as recent as SuSE 10.x and Mac OS 10.3 . The Macs >>>e.g. >>>have been an education. >>> >>>"My life? What life? I have no life. O insuportable! O heavy >>>hour!"--Apologies to Messrs. Bill the Bard and Othello. >>> >>>Actually, I _do_ have a life outside computers. >>> >>>Doug L. 37830 >> >> Hi Doug, >> >> You are right, I have lots of different computers around too, mostly >> picked up for little actual cost. >> >> It is the activity that is the fun, not the OS as such. >> >> The so called "old" computers let you get at them, rather than the >> "new" >> computers which just give you ready made applications. >> >> -- >> Malcolm Cadman >My son (age 11) is a good example of what you say. > >I spend much of my time at work with Windows-based software and [apart >from being the office "expert" :-( fixing the odd glitch] I am purely >a user and don't get the same >enjoyment of using those computers as I do from my SMSQE/QDOS systems. > >Whereas my son is quite competent at using the programs on his PC, he >takes little or no interest in how it actually works. The applications >are what he's into and what he (and his friends) can do with them, >whether it be games, digital camera, mp3, etc etc > >He can't understand why I still use a system which is over 2 decades >old when I have a perfectly good fairly modern PC! > >I've given up trying to explain to him :-) In my work in education we now have an army of technicians who look after the network system - which is Windows XP Professional with over 2000 users. So I can always call on them to be the "expert" ... :-) However, I am expected to know how to run all of the applications, which are numerous and sophisticated ... :-( Your son, like many others, is right to just be a "user" and to enjoy what that brings. However, he may also wake up, one day, and realise all of the other fun that can be had with knowing more about computer usage and the other various options that can be used. Maybe then, his dad will not seem so weird ... :-) ... and become a QL junior . -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane
> > Commodore was an important player here is the UK. > > Eventually they went for the then emerging PC market, and more or less > lost out. > I would recommend anyone interested in the Commodore story read "On the Edge - The Spectacular Rise and Fall of Commodore" - it makes a fascinating read. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> , extdgl42 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >Interesting; reminds me I was just on Amazon reading about their >history of Commodore. Apple, IBM, M$ et al survived. Commodore was one >of the main players early in personal computing, and in fact is said >there to have been one of the main reasons Sinclair was knocked out of >the game. But the others are remembered and Commodore is not, despite >having had many firsts. I don't have the URL right with me, but I >expect one can google or search Amazon on "computer books" and >"commodore history". Commodore was an important player here is the UK. Eventually they went for the then emerging PC market, and more or less lost out. -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, extdgl42 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >Now: "Who knows what secret passages & shadows lie in the hearts of QLs". I guess that is what we usually get around to doing on this list ... some of the time ... :-) >Seeing all the different systems, including OSs, is part of the fun. >But it did my heart good a few nights ago to see the familiar "three" >screen pic for the first time in a year or two, even if it was on a >monochrome monitor full of jiggle from the 50/60 problem. Now if I can >get a decent monitor (possibly get fixed the Acorn Tony tried to >resurrect at QL NA) and a (fully) working set of floppy drives. It >would "warm the cockles of my little black heart" to be able to do >large shares of what I currently take PCs and Macs to do on that Little >Black Box. Good luck with breathing the life back in to that old QL. -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane
>>As an example of variety, I'll mention my confuser (computer :-) >>room: >>Three Macs (two of them laptops), two PCs (One 733, the other >>133[!], a >>custom build long ago), and several QLs (many still in styrofoam >>boxes; >>one somewhat working). Yes, internet connectivity for four of the >>above. All as old as about 1999 or farther back, with OS's as old as >>98SE or QDOS, or as recent as SuSE 10.x and Mac OS 10.3 . The Macs >>e.g. >>have been an education. >> >>"My life? What life? I have no life. O insuportable! O heavy >>hour!"--Apologies to Messrs. Bill the Bard and Othello. >> >>Actually, I _do_ have a life outside computers. >> >>Doug L. 37830 > > Hi Doug, > > You are right, I have lots of different computers around too, mostly > picked up for little actual cost. > > It is the activity that is the fun, not the OS as such. > > The so called "old" computers let you get at them, rather than the > "new" > computers which just give you ready made applications. > > -- > Malcolm Cadman My son (age 11) is a good example of what you say. I spend much of my time at work with Windows-based software and [apart from being the office "expert" :-( fixing the odd glitch] I am purely a user and don't get the same enjoyment of using those computers as I do from my SMSQE/QDOS systems. Whereas my son is quite competent at using the programs on his PC, he takes little or no interest in how it actually works. The applications are what he's into and what he (and his friends) can do with them, whether it be games, digital camera, mp3, etc etc He can't understand why I still use a system which is over 2 decades old when I have a perfectly good fairly modern PC! I've given up trying to explain to him :-) -- Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane
Interesting; reminds me I was just on Amazon reading about their history of Commodore. Apple, IBM, M$ et al survived. Commodore was one of the main players early in personal computing, and in fact is said there to have been one of the main reasons Sinclair was knocked out of the game. But the others are remembered and Commodore is not, despite having had many firsts. I don't have the URL right with me, but I expect one can google or search Amazon on "computer books" and "commodore history". Doug 37830 USA -Original Message- >From: Malcolm Cadman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Feb 12, 2007 2:25 PM >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane > >In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Rick Chagouri-Brindle ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes > >>>> Fair enough. Do you teach ICT then? Snap, although I am a part-time >>>> lecturer on loan from business!!! At the local college at which I teach >>>> they insist on calling it Information Communications Technology . . . >>>> hence the ICT. However, the function of ICT in a educational environment >>>> is no different from IT in a business environment . . . they are both >>>> using technology to achieve a purpose. >>>> >>> >>> I teach Technology, in a secondary school. >>> >>> I hate all these pseudo titles, that come and go ... >>> >>I couldn't agree with you more . . . there is too much emphasis at work >>and in education on naming things! > >Yes ... "new", so called, initiatives ... :-( > >>> We just use the hardware and software to help achieve project work. >>> >>And why not? Well, after all, isn't this what technology is for? At >>times we all get too focussed on technology without purpose, I know I >>can be guilty of that!!! > >Our role is to try to see the technology as a tool to encourage >creativity, inventiveness, et, through project based work. > >>> Not forgetting, that there is just as much value in hand skills too. >>> >>I couldn't agree with you more. I have two young sons and the older boy, >>who is four ,has his own laptop, but we ensure that he mixes sitting at >>the computer with actually physically making things with kicking a ball >>around with . . . . . . . >>> I have no problem with software investment going into PC applications. >>> What I find disappointing is that in many schools/colleges it is purely >>> a Microsoft environment and that students have no concept of the history >>> and development of ICT. That, in my view, is a real shame. Even in >>> programming, the concentration seems to be totally on Visual Basic - >>> with all the bad habits that gives us - without considering the huge >>> variety of better cross-platform languages. Oh well, that's life, I guess! >>> >>> >>> Yes it is boring, but the way it is at present. >>> >>A colleague of mine actually had a student penalised for "thinking >>outside the box" and using an alternative language - Ruby - for a project. >>> My school has a Humanities specialist grant, that gives us even more M$ >>> products, as a part of the deal. >>> >>MS aren't stupid, are they? > >Yes, by pumping in funding now, for their own products, they are seeding >the next generation to use them. > >>Actually, that reminds me. I also "teach" on a volunteer basis at a >>local pre-school. I use the term teach with this age group very >>loosely, but I was amazed how much these children pick up and how >>quickly. As part of the project, I setup and installed four PCs for >>them, and we installed the Edubuntu Linux variant - partly for reasons >>of cost, and partly because it is designed for young children. They >>have all taken too it so well, it is amazing. Many of the children use >>the machines with more confidence than some of the staff!!! > >Umm ... this is why it is still fun and interesting to use the QL, in >its modern form and derivatives. > >My introduction to "home computing" was in the heady days when there was >lots of free choice around. > >Now it is M$ dominant. Although the iPod has shown that the market >dominance can be challenged, and new markets created. > >-- >Malcolm Cadman >___ >QL-Users Mailing List >http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane
Malcom,
Mm-hmm. Only recently did I find there's a secret passage ("... you are in a
maze of tiny windy passages :-) :-( into the Darwin-unix-guts of the Macs,
which comes up even when (as in the current case of the 400 Bronze Lombard) you
can't even complete Safe Booting OS 10.x ... so maybe I can poke around for the
right thing w/o destroying the system--did I say I know what I'm doing?--and
fix it's severe boot problem.
Now: "Who knows what secret passages & shadows lie in the hearts of QLs".
Seeing all the different systems, including OSs, is part of the fun. But it did
my heart good a few nights ago to see the familiar "three" screen pic for the
first time in a year or two, even if it was on a monochrome monitor full of
jiggle from the 50/60 problem. Now if I can get a decent monitor (possibly get
fixed the Acorn Tony tried to resurrect at QL NA) and a (fully) working set of
floppy drives. It would "warm the cockles of my little black heart" to be able
to do large shares of what I currently take PCs and Macs to do on that Little
Black Box.
Doug 37830 USA
-Original Message-
>From: Malcolm Cadman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Feb 12, 2007 2:46 PM
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Re: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane
>
>In message
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>, extdgl42 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
>
>>As an example of variety, I'll mention my confuser (computer :-) room:
>>Three Macs (two of them laptops), two PCs (One 733, the other 133[!], a
>>custom build long ago), and several QLs (many still in styrofoam boxes;
>>one somewhat working). Yes, internet connectivity for four of the
>>above. All as old as about 1999 or farther back, with OS's as old as
>>98SE or QDOS, or as recent as SuSE 10.x and Mac OS 10.3 . The Macs e.g.
>>have been an education.
>>
>>"My life? What life? I have no life. O insuportable! O heavy
>>hour!"--Apologies to Messrs. Bill the Bard and Othello.
>>
>>Actually, I _do_ have a life outside computers.
>>
>>Doug L. 37830
>
>Hi Doug,
>
>You are right, I have lots of different computers around too, mostly
>picked up for little actual cost.
>
>It is the activity that is the fun, not the OS as such.
>
>The so called "old" computers let you get at them, rather than the "new"
>computers which just give you ready made applications.
>
>--
>Malcolm Cadman
>___
>QL-Users Mailing List
>http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
___
QL-Users Mailing List
http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Rick Chagouri-Brindle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >extdgl42 wrote: >> As an example of variety, I'll mention my confuser (computer :-) >>room: Three Macs (two of them laptops), two PCs (One 733, the other >>133[!], a custom build long ago), and several QLs (many still in >>styrofoam boxes; one somewhat working). Yes, internet connectivity for >>four of the above. All as old as about 1999 or farther back, with OS's >>as old as 98SE or QDOS, or as recent as SuSE 10.x and Mac OS 10.3 . >>The Macs e.g. have been an education. >> >> >I think exposing the younger generation to earlier machines is a >wonderful way of reigniting waning enthusiasm. My nephews thoroughly >enjoy playing on the earlier micros, and they love the QL in particular >. . . it just looks so cool (in their words). I will remember to mention that to the ex-Sinclair industrial designer, who became a friend of mine. There is a link on my web site to his current activities, as well as his "old" designs for Sinclair. http:\\www.mcad.demon.co.uk/lquan.htm The link is at the bottom of the page. >> "My life? What life? I have no life. O insuportable! O heavy >>hour!"--Apologies to Messrs. Bill the Bard and Othello. >> >> Actually, I _do_ have a life outside computers. >> >> Doug L. 37830 -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> , extdgl42 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >As an example of variety, I'll mention my confuser (computer :-) room: >Three Macs (two of them laptops), two PCs (One 733, the other 133[!], a >custom build long ago), and several QLs (many still in styrofoam boxes; >one somewhat working). Yes, internet connectivity for four of the >above. All as old as about 1999 or farther back, with OS's as old as >98SE or QDOS, or as recent as SuSE 10.x and Mac OS 10.3 . The Macs e.g. >have been an education. > >"My life? What life? I have no life. O insuportable! O heavy >hour!"--Apologies to Messrs. Bill the Bard and Othello. > >Actually, I _do_ have a life outside computers. > >Doug L. 37830 Hi Doug, You are right, I have lots of different computers around too, mostly picked up for little actual cost. It is the activity that is the fun, not the OS as such. The so called "old" computers let you get at them, rather than the "new" computers which just give you ready made applications. -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Rick Chagouri-Brindle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >>> Fair enough. Do you teach ICT then? Snap, although I am a part-time >>> lecturer on loan from business!!! At the local college at which I teach >>> they insist on calling it Information Communications Technology . . . >>> hence the ICT. However, the function of ICT in a educational environment >>> is no different from IT in a business environment . . . they are both >>> using technology to achieve a purpose. >>> >> >> I teach Technology, in a secondary school. >> >> I hate all these pseudo titles, that come and go ... >> >I couldn't agree with you more . . . there is too much emphasis at work >and in education on naming things! Yes ... "new", so called, initiatives ... :-( >> We just use the hardware and software to help achieve project work. >> >And why not? Well, after all, isn't this what technology is for? At >times we all get too focussed on technology without purpose, I know I >can be guilty of that!!! Our role is to try to see the technology as a tool to encourage creativity, inventiveness, et, through project based work. >> Not forgetting, that there is just as much value in hand skills too. >> >I couldn't agree with you more. I have two young sons and the older boy, >who is four ,has his own laptop, but we ensure that he mixes sitting at >the computer with actually physically making things with kicking a ball >around with . . . . . . . >> I have no problem with software investment going into PC applications. >> What I find disappointing is that in many schools/colleges it is purely >> a Microsoft environment and that students have no concept of the history >> and development of ICT. That, in my view, is a real shame. Even in >> programming, the concentration seems to be totally on Visual Basic - >> with all the bad habits that gives us - without considering the huge >> variety of better cross-platform languages. Oh well, that's life, I guess! >> >> >> Yes it is boring, but the way it is at present. >> >A colleague of mine actually had a student penalised for "thinking >outside the box" and using an alternative language - Ruby - for a project. >> My school has a Humanities specialist grant, that gives us even more M$ >> products, as a part of the deal. >> >MS aren't stupid, are they? Yes, by pumping in funding now, for their own products, they are seeding the next generation to use them. >Actually, that reminds me. I also "teach" on a volunteer basis at a >local pre-school. I use the term teach with this age group very >loosely, but I was amazed how much these children pick up and how >quickly. As part of the project, I setup and installed four PCs for >them, and we installed the Edubuntu Linux variant - partly for reasons >of cost, and partly because it is designed for young children. They >have all taken too it so well, it is amazing. Many of the children use >the machines with more confidence than some of the staff!!! Umm ... this is why it is still fun and interesting to use the QL, in its modern form and derivatives. My introduction to "home computing" was in the heady days when there was lots of free choice around. Now it is M$ dominant. Although the iPod has shown that the market dominance can be challenged, and new markets created. -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Tony Firshman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >Rick Chagouri-Brindle wrote: > >> Actually, that reminds me. I also "teach" on a volunteer basis at a >> local pre-school. I use the term teach with this age group very >> loosely, but I was amazed how much these children pick up and how >> quickly. As part of the project, I setup and installed four PCs for >> them, and we installed the Edubuntu Linux variant - partly for reasons >> of cost, and partly because it is designed for young children. They >> have all taken too it so well, it is amazing. Many of the children use >> the machines with more confidence than some of the staff!!! >Of course they do. Ben at age 8 became the password holder and >controller of >the classes computer. He kept on correcting the teacher and helping >her - so she passed responsibilty! It is still happening now. He has >given up A level computing because the teacher knows less than him. Umm, the latter seems bad news. Teachers do not "know everything" now, and can never do so. We work with the student, to lead on to further development. Which is around facilitating learning, rather than the didactic teaching of learning. I have had some fantastic work from A level students who knew they were in charge of their own learning. Which doesn't mean they didn't still receive inputs about things they did not yet know or had not yet come across. One of the things that is about to be set up at my school - with the extra funding from M$ - is a Learning Gateway. Which will mean a lot of resources will be available 24/7. This is something we all talked about, years ago. Now the hardware and software is available to be "up to the job", and things like broad band access being "free" to students all day has helped. As well as many students have similar, or better, facilities at home too. -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Neil Riley wrote: > Speaking of retro computers, > > I have gotten rid of a few items recently but i still have a nice > working ZX81 with a Ram pack which doesn't wobble ( clever > hook that fixes it firmly in place ), a beautiful Original Atari 800 > which I'm on the verse of selling even though I don't want to, plus > a couple ATARI Stfm's and a rather stunning Amiga 1200. > > I only use my QL & Aurora now though as I haven't the room for > the others. > While we are on the nostalgia kick, I still have a working Tandy 102. This is an excellent system with a very good keyboard. The QL connection is that I set some up for an acquaintance of, urmm, Dave Walker I think. It had modem capability, quite unusual in those 80s days, and was used by salesmen to send in data at the blistering speed of .0003 Mbps by acoustic modem. I had fun disassembling two pieces of 6502 machine code that used the same address shifting one, and combining - to get a pound sign *and* Xmodem at the same time! I keep it on standby permanently as I haven't a clue where the cassette code is now! I change the 4 AA batteries when I remember - about every three years! This compares with my laptop where standby is only a month! Tony - -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF0DrXM3RzOs8+btoRAlIZAJ9+VcolNGcimrFtJteZe4P4G18IoQCfSTXb pwclCksv7XwEEtA0VrPXl1U= =zUou -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane
Speaking of retro computers, I have gotten rid of a few items recently but i still have a nice working ZX81 with a Ram pack which doesn't wobble ( clever hook that fixes it firmly in place ), a beautiful Original Atari 800 which I'm on the verse of selling even though I don't want to, plus a couple ATARI Stfm's and a rather stunning Amiga 1200. I only use my QL & Aurora now though as I haven't the room for the others. Shame Neil >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12 February 2007 07:47 >>> extdgl42 wrote: > As an example of variety, I'll mention my confuser (computer :-) room: Three Macs (two of them laptops), two PCs (One 733, the other 133[!], a custom build long ago), and several QLs (many still in styrofoam boxes; one somewhat working). Yes, internet connectivity for four of the above. All as old as about 1999 or farther back, with OS's as old as 98SE or QDOS, or as recent as SuSE 10.x and Mac OS 10.3 . The Macs e.g. have been an education. > > I think exposing the younger generation to earlier machines is a wonderful way of reigniting waning enthusiasm. My nephews thoroughly enjoy playing on the earlier micros, and they love the QL in particular . . . it just looks so cool (in their words). > "My life? What life? I have no life. O insuportable! O heavy hour!"--Apologies to Messrs. Bill the Bard and Othello. > > Actually, I _do_ have a life outside computers. > > Doug L. 37830 > > -Original Message- ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm *** The contents of this email are confidential to the intended recipient. It may not be disclosed to or used by anyone other than the addressee, nor may it be copied in any way. If received in error, please contact the company on 01793-715380, then delete it from your system. Please note neither the company nor the sender accepts any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any) for viruses. No contract may be concluded on behalf of the company by means of email communications. BC Services (UK) Limited (trading as Boxclever), Technology House, Ampthill Road, Bedford, MK42 9QQ. Registered No. 5290544 England www.boxclever.co.uk *** ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane
extdgl42 wrote: > As an example of variety, I'll mention my confuser (computer :-) room: Three > Macs (two of them laptops), two PCs (One 733, the other 133[!], a custom > build long ago), and several QLs (many still in styrofoam boxes; one somewhat > working). Yes, internet connectivity for four of the above. All as old as > about 1999 or farther back, with OS's as old as 98SE or QDOS, or as recent as > SuSE 10.x and Mac OS 10.3 . The Macs e.g. have been an education. > > I think exposing the younger generation to earlier machines is a wonderful way of reigniting waning enthusiasm. My nephews thoroughly enjoy playing on the earlier micros, and they love the QL in particular . . . it just looks so cool (in their words). > "My life? What life? I have no life. O insuportable! O heavy > hour!"--Apologies to Messrs. Bill the Bard and Othello. > > Actually, I _do_ have a life outside computers. > > Doug L. 37830 > > -Original Message- ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane
Tony Firshman wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Rick Chagouri-Brindle wrote: > > >> Actually, that reminds me. I also "teach" on a volunteer basis at a >> local pre-school. I use the term teach with this age group very >> loosely, but I was amazed how much these children pick up and how >> quickly. As part of the project, I setup and installed four PCs for >> them, and we installed the Edubuntu Linux variant - partly for reasons >> of cost, and partly because it is designed for young children. They >> have all taken too it so well, it is amazing. Many of the children use >> the machines with more confidence than some of the staff!!! >> > Of course they do. Ben at age 8 became the password holder and > controller of > the classes computer. He kept on correcting the teacher and helping > her - so she passed responsibilty! It is still happening now. He has > given up A level computing because the teacher knows less than him. > My nephew was in a similar situation . . . in the end he got so fed up and dispirited. Oh well, at least I was able to introduce him to the weird and wonderful machines although he found my ZX81 amusing to say the least!!! ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane
As an example of variety, I'll mention my confuser (computer :-) room: Three Macs (two of them laptops), two PCs (One 733, the other 133[!], a custom build long ago), and several QLs (many still in styrofoam boxes; one somewhat working). Yes, internet connectivity for four of the above. All as old as about 1999 or farther back, with OS's as old as 98SE or QDOS, or as recent as SuSE 10.x and Mac OS 10.3 . The Macs e.g. have been an education. "My life? What life? I have no life. O insuportable! O heavy hour!"--Apologies to Messrs. Bill the Bard and Othello. Actually, I _do_ have a life outside computers. Doug L. 37830 -Original Message- >From: Rick Chagouri-Brindle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Feb 11, 2007 6:22 PM >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane > > > >Malcolm Cadman wrote: >> In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Rick Chagouri-Brindle >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >> Not forgetting, that there is just as much value in hand skills too. >> >I couldn't agree with you more. I have two young sons and the older boy, >who is four ,has his own laptop, but we ensure that he mixes sitting at >the computer with actually physically making things with kicking a ball >around with . . . . . . . >> I have no problem with software investment going into PC applications. >> What I find disappointing is that in many schools/colleges it is purely >> a Microsoft environment and that students have no concept of the history >> and development of ICT. That, in my view, is a real shame. Even in >> programming, the concentration seems to be totally on Visual Basic - >> with all the bad habits that gives us - without considering the huge >> variety of better cross-platform languages. Oh well, that's life, I guess! >> >> >> Yes it is boring, but the way it is at present. >> >A colleague of mine actually had a student penalised for "thinking >outside the box" and using an alternative language - Ruby - for a project. >> My school has a Humanities specialist grant, that gives us even more M$ >> products, as a part of the deal. >> >MS aren't stupid, are they? > >Actually, that reminds me. I also "teach" on a volunteer basis at a >local pre-school. I use the term teach with this age group very >loosely, but I was amazed how much these children pick up and how >quickly. As part of the project, I setup and installed four PCs for >them, and we installed the Edubuntu Linux variant - partly for reasons >of cost, and partly because it is designed for young children. They >have all taken too it so well, it is amazing. Many of the children use >the machines with more confidence than some of the staff!!! > >___ >QL-Users Mailing List >http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Rick Chagouri-Brindle wrote: > Actually, that reminds me. I also "teach" on a volunteer basis at a > local pre-school. I use the term teach with this age group very > loosely, but I was amazed how much these children pick up and how > quickly. As part of the project, I setup and installed four PCs for > them, and we installed the Edubuntu Linux variant - partly for reasons > of cost, and partly because it is designed for young children. They > have all taken too it so well, it is amazing. Many of the children use > the machines with more confidence than some of the staff!!! Of course they do. Ben at age 8 became the password holder and controller of the classes computer. He kept on correcting the teacher and helping her - so she passed responsibilty! It is still happening now. He has given up A level computing because the teacher knows less than him. Tony - -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFz7KXM3RzOs8+btoRAmqnAJ9P39JRM4NBkPW4wVndP7ua2dOIBQCdFyc1 qgb42XI/ybO2fcJwSjzl2Pg= =pfJk -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane
QL2K wrote: > Well we have the same problems at school, college and university in > France... > > And I don't know about you all, but what I do with my son (recently 6 years > old) is we are working together some computing courses. > At this time we are working on ORIC with commands like : > > PRINT "2+3="; 2+3 > SHOOT, EXPLODE or PING and so one. > > And he already knows how to deal properly with CLS or RUN commands. > > My daughter (5 years old) want to do the same when she was able to read and > write. > > It other he have to be familiar with both the keyboard and the BASIC syntax > he asking me for small listing of programs in order he typed it on ORIC. > (Well it's an ATMOS as the ORIC 1 have a keyboard that is quite hard to use > by childs). > > In a few time we will work on QL, I'm working on the restoration on his own > QL. > What's he true too, that is my childs sayed that QL, ORIC and Amiga > computers are pretty. The PC is without this think that made these others so > attractive. > > Finally, he prefer work on that such of old computers instead of his own PC > where there is a lot of games or so but where creativity is not so easy to > make in action. > > So I definitively agree with you when computer history should be learned at > ITC or equivalent courses. > > Jimmy. > Isn't it an interesting situation, where we find that "old" computers are more interesting, or more fun. My eldest son is four and he already has fun using his laptop - he can use the internet (firewall controlled of course) and run his games and education programs - but what he really wants to learn is "daddy's old computers", he likes looking inside and was fascinated watching a soldering iron being used! Of course, part of it is that he is at the age where he just soaks up information, but I think more than this, it is that he wants to learn, not have everything done for him, and that is the beauty of the old computers. As soon as he can read properly - at the moment he only recognises odd words and names - I am going to follow your example to teach him basic programming. He wants to learn already . . . By the way, I used to love the ATMOS! When I was a kid, a friend had one and we had great fun with it. At the time I had a BBC B - which seemed much more serious - and then a QL (well the QL was officially my Dad's for work). ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane
Well we have the same problems at school, college and university in France... And I don't know about you all, but what I do with my son (recently 6 years old) is we are working together some computing courses. At this time we are working on ORIC with commands like : PRINT "2+3="; 2+3 SHOOT, EXPLODE or PING and so one. And he already knows how to deal properly with CLS or RUN commands. My daughter (5 years old) want to do the same when she was able to read and write. It other he have to be familiar with both the keyboard and the BASIC syntax he asking me for small listing of programs in order he typed it on ORIC. (Well it's an ATMOS as the ORIC 1 have a keyboard that is quite hard to use by childs). In a few time we will work on QL, I'm working on the restoration on his own QL. What's he true too, that is my childs sayed that QL, ORIC and Amiga computers are pretty. The PC is without this think that made these others so attractive. Finally, he prefer work on that such of old computers instead of his own PC where there is a lot of games or so but where creativity is not so easy to make in action. So I definitively agree with you when computer history should be learned at ITC or equivalent courses. Jimmy. -Message d'origine- De : [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] De la part de Rick Chagouri-Brindle Envoyé : dimanche 11 février 2007 23:28 À : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Objet : Re: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane > It is ICT because it is Information Technology across the curriculum, > not just learning IT systems. > > We use applications that have a purpose, to produce work ... like > PhotoShop and PageMaker in Graphics. > > At present the software investment in programming is being put into PC > Applications. > Fair enough. Do you teach ICT then? Snap, although I am a part-time lecturer on loan from business!!! At the local college at which I teach they insist on calling it Information Communications Technology . . . hence the ICT. However, the function of ICT in a educational environment is no different from IT in a business environment . . . they are both using technology to achieve a purpose. I have no problem with software investment going into PC applications. What I find disappointing is that in many schools/colleges it is purely a Microsoft environment and that students have no concept of the history and development of ICT. That, in my view, is a real shame. Even in programming, the concentration seems to be totally on Visual Basic - with all the bad habits that gives us - without considering the huge variety of better cross-platform languages. Oh well, that's life, I guess! > >> One of the most interesting comments was how "cool" the QL looked . . . >> it seems that well-designed retro is in >> > > Yes, the industrial design for Sinclair was "cool" at the time, and > won many awards. It still remains cool. > > Indeed! ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane
Malcolm Cadman wrote: > In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Rick Chagouri-Brindle > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes > > >>> It is ICT because it is Information Technology across the curriculum, >>> not just learning IT systems. >>> >>> We use applications that have a purpose, to produce work ... like >>> PhotoShop and PageMaker in Graphics. >>> >>> At present the software investment in programming is being put into PC >>> Applications. >>> >>> >> Fair enough. Do you teach ICT then? Snap, although I am a part-time >> lecturer on loan from business!!! At the local college at which I teach >> they insist on calling it Information Communications Technology . . . >> hence the ICT. However, the function of ICT in a educational environment >> is no different from IT in a business environment . . . they are both >> using technology to achieve a purpose. >> > > I teach Technology, in a secondary school. > > I hate all these pseudo titles, that come and go ... > I couldn't agree with you more . . . there is too much emphasis at work and in education on naming things! > We just use the hardware and software to help achieve project work. > And why not? Well, after all, isn't this what technology is for? At times we all get too focussed on technology without purpose, I know I can be guilty of that!!! > Not forgetting, that there is just as much value in hand skills too. > I couldn't agree with you more. I have two young sons and the older boy, who is four ,has his own laptop, but we ensure that he mixes sitting at the computer with actually physically making things with kicking a ball around with . . . . . . . > I have no problem with software investment going into PC applications. > What I find disappointing is that in many schools/colleges it is purely > a Microsoft environment and that students have no concept of the history > and development of ICT. That, in my view, is a real shame. Even in > programming, the concentration seems to be totally on Visual Basic - > with all the bad habits that gives us - without considering the huge > variety of better cross-platform languages. Oh well, that's life, I guess! > > > Yes it is boring, but the way it is at present. > A colleague of mine actually had a student penalised for "thinking outside the box" and using an alternative language - Ruby - for a project. > My school has a Humanities specialist grant, that gives us even more M$ > products, as a part of the deal. > MS aren't stupid, are they? Actually, that reminds me. I also "teach" on a volunteer basis at a local pre-school. I use the term teach with this age group very loosely, but I was amazed how much these children pick up and how quickly. As part of the project, I setup and installed four PCs for them, and we installed the Edubuntu Linux variant - partly for reasons of cost, and partly because it is designed for young children. They have all taken too it so well, it is amazing. Many of the children use the machines with more confidence than some of the staff!!! ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Rick Chagouri-Brindle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >> It is ICT because it is Information Technology across the curriculum, >> not just learning IT systems. >> >> We use applications that have a purpose, to produce work ... like >> PhotoShop and PageMaker in Graphics. >> >> At present the software investment in programming is being put into PC >> Applications. >> >Fair enough. Do you teach ICT then? Snap, although I am a part-time >lecturer on loan from business!!! At the local college at which I teach >they insist on calling it Information Communications Technology . . . >hence the ICT. However, the function of ICT in a educational environment >is no different from IT in a business environment . . . they are both >using technology to achieve a purpose. I teach Technology, in a secondary school. I hate all these pseudo titles, that come and go ... We just use the hardware and software to help achieve project work. Not forgetting, that there is just as much value in hand skills too. >I have no problem with software investment going into PC applications. >What I find disappointing is that in many schools/colleges it is purely >a Microsoft environment and that students have no concept of the history >and development of ICT. That, in my view, is a real shame. Even in >programming, the concentration seems to be totally on Visual Basic - >with all the bad habits that gives us - without considering the huge >variety of better cross-platform languages. Oh well, that's life, I guess! Yes it is boring, but the way it is at present. My school has a Humanities specialist grant, that gives us even more M$ products, as a part of the deal. >> >>> One of the most interesting comments was how "cool" the QL looked . . . >>> it seems that well-designed retro is in >>> >> >> Yes, the industrial design for Sinclair was "cool" at the time, and won >> many awards. It still remains cool. >> >> >Indeed! -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane
> It is ICT because it is Information Technology across the curriculum, > not just learning IT systems. > > We use applications that have a purpose, to produce work ... like > PhotoShop and PageMaker in Graphics. > > At present the software investment in programming is being put into PC > Applications. > Fair enough. Do you teach ICT then? Snap, although I am a part-time lecturer on loan from business!!! At the local college at which I teach they insist on calling it Information Communications Technology . . . hence the ICT. However, the function of ICT in a educational environment is no different from IT in a business environment . . . they are both using technology to achieve a purpose. I have no problem with software investment going into PC applications. What I find disappointing is that in many schools/colleges it is purely a Microsoft environment and that students have no concept of the history and development of ICT. That, in my view, is a real shame. Even in programming, the concentration seems to be totally on Visual Basic - with all the bad habits that gives us - without considering the huge variety of better cross-platform languages. Oh well, that's life, I guess! > >> One of the most interesting comments was how "cool" the QL looked . . . >> it seems that well-designed retro is in >> > > Yes, the industrial design for Sinclair was "cool" at the time, and won > many awards. It still remains cool. > > Indeed! ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane
> It is ICT because it is Information Technology across the curriculum, > not just learning IT systems. > > We use applications that have a purpose, to produce work ... like > PhotoShop and PageMaker in Graphics. > > At present the software investment in programming is being put into PC > Applications. > Fair enough. Do you teach ICT then? Snap, although I am a part-time lecturer on loan from business!!! At the local college at which I teach they insist on calling it Information Communications Technology . . . hence the ICT. However, the function of ICT in a educational environment is no different from IT in a business environment . . . they are both using technology to achieve a purpose. I have no problem with software investment going into PC applications. What I find disappointing is that in many schools/colleges it is purely a Microsoft environment and that students have no concept of the history and development of ICT. That, in my view, is a real shame. Even in programming, the concentration seems to be totally on Visual Basic - with all the bad habits that gives us - without considering the huge variety of better cross-platform languages. Oh well, that's life, I guess! > >> One of the most interesting comments was how "cool" the QL looked . . . >> it seems that well-designed retro is in >> > > Yes, the industrial design for Sinclair was "cool" at the time, and won > many awards. It still remains cool. > > Indeed! ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Rick Chagouri-Brindle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >I just thought I'd share a recent QL experience with everybody! The >company I work for is very keen on promoting personal development >outside the normal boundaries at work. Think outside the box is one of >the MD's catch-phrases. > >Anyway, as IT Manager of this company, it became my turn to organise >something concerning to my field but not directly work related: so I >organised a little presentation and history tour, using my collection of >PCs as illustrations. People were able to have a go, play with them, >run programs and generally see how computers have developed over the >years. To illustrate my presentation, I used my ZX81 (the first PC I >ever owned), BBC Model B, BBC Master, Spectrum+3, Amiga 1200, Z88 and of >course the Sinclair QL. I was wonderful to see the amount of fun people >had with these older machines, and some of the younger members of the >company were really surprised at what had constituted a computer "back >then"! It's such as shame that for many youngsters today, learning ICT >(as the schools irritatingly insist on calling it) is simply learning >how to use Microsoft products . . . . It is ICT because it is Information Technology across the curriculum, not just learning IT systems. We use applications that have a purpose, to produce work ... like PhotoShop and PageMaker in Graphics. At present the software investment in programming is being put into PC Applications. >One of the most interesting comments was how "cool" the QL looked . . . >it seems that well-designed retro is in Yes, the industrial design for Sinclair was "cool" at the time, and won many awards. It still remains cool. -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane
Hi all One of my remaining QL tasks is to let the ITC profs remember from where the real experts/technologies are (were) coming from. Doing that I experienced the same impressions as Rick did. Once the young ITC profs hear and see what and how a QL and QDOS operated some 20 years ago they get very interessted/impressed. Eg. Our company is in a network of about 30 ITC companies. In summer 2004 the monthly "First monday" event was organised by me around my private QL thing. It was named "The roots, the cousins, the innovations". We had a very special guest. Tim Bucher, cousin of my wife and Vice President at Apple (at that time). Both Tim and I had very personal speeches and presentations. I did some live QL demos. Eg. having > 100 jobs running in parallel under SMSQ/E compared to Windows NT 4 where NT went down on that. Tim did impress us all with his inventions. My computer museum was on display with different QL systems running software. We even had a working original Macintosh from 1984. The 40 or so attandes were impressed and even today, almost 3 years later people talk about it one day or another. Some resources: http://www.computervalley. ch/website/veranstaltungen/firstmonday/020804_TimBucher.htm http://www.computervalley. ch/website/veranstaltungen/firstmonday/Foto_Gallery_Tim_Bucher.htm http://www.computervalley.ch/020804/Besuch_Tim_Bucher.pdf http://mypage.bluewin.ch/QLvsJaguar/QL.html Enjoy the Sunday...Urs Ursprüngliche Nachricht Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Datum: 11.02.2007 01:23 An: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Betreff: [ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane I just thought I'd share a recent QL experience with everybody! The company I work for is very keen on promoting personal development outside the normal boundaries at work. Think outside the box is one of the MD's catch-phrases. Anyway, as IT Manager of this company, it became my turn to organise something concerning to my field but not directly work related: so I organised a little presentation and history tour, using my collection of PCs as illustrations. People were able to have a go, play with them, run programs and generally see how computers have developed over the years. To illustrate my presentation, I used my ZX81 (the first PC I ever owned), BBC Model B, BBC Master, Spectrum+3, Amiga 1200, Z88 and of course the Sinclair QL. I was wonderful to see the amount of fun people had with these older machines, and some of the younger members of the company were really surprised at what had constituted a computer "back then"! It's such as shame that for many youngsters today, learning ICT (as the schools irritatingly insist on calling it) is simply learning how to use Microsoft products . . . . One of the most interesting comments was how "cool" the QL looked . . . it seems that well-designed retro is in ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm"; target="_BLANK" >http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
[ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane
I just thought I'd share a recent QL experience with everybody! The company I work for is very keen on promoting personal development outside the normal boundaries at work. Think outside the box is one of the MD's catch-phrases. Anyway, as IT Manager of this company, it became my turn to organise something concerning to my field but not directly work related: so I organised a little presentation and history tour, using my collection of PCs as illustrations. People were able to have a go, play with them, run programs and generally see how computers have developed over the years. To illustrate my presentation, I used my ZX81 (the first PC I ever owned), BBC Model B, BBC Master, Spectrum+3, Amiga 1200, Z88 and of course the Sinclair QL. I was wonderful to see the amount of fun people had with these older machines, and some of the younger members of the company were really surprised at what had constituted a computer "back then"! It's such as shame that for many youngsters today, learning ICT (as the schools irritatingly insist on calling it) is simply learning how to use Microsoft products . . . . One of the most interesting comments was how "cool" the QL looked . . . it seems that well-designed retro is in ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
[ql-users] A QL Trip Down Memory Lane
I just thought I'd share a recent QL experience with everybody! The company I work for is very keen on promoting personal development outside the normal boundaries at work. Think outside the box is one of the MD's catch-phrases. Anyway, as IT Manager of this company, it became my turn to organise something concerning to my field but not directly work related: so I organised a little presentation and history tour, using my collection of PCs as illustrations. People were able to have a go, play with them, run programs and generally see how computers have developed over the years. To illustrate my presentation, I used my ZX81 (the first PC I ever owned), BBC Model B, BBC Master, Spectrum+3, Amiga 1200, Z88 and of course the Sinclair QL. I was wonderful to see the amount of fun people had with these older machines, and some of the younger members of the company were really surprised at what had constituted a computer "back then"! It's such as shame that for many youngsters today, learning ICT (as the schools irritatingly insist on calling it) is simply learning how to use Microsoft products . . . . One of the most interesting comments was how "cool" the QL looked . . . it seems that well-designed retro is in ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
