Re: to flame
>And as to arrogance, arrogance is playing at scientist in your kitchen >lab in your spare time for six months then proposing to tell men and >women who've dedicated their lives to the field that they don't have a >clue what they're talking about. Doug; Then you have those like me that are smart enough to realize that something is wrong and HAVE to play scientest in their kitchen because the doctors use their crappy PCR-etc. tests and tell you that it's all in your head. My field is computers also. Before I got sick it was mechanic, body man, carpenter, etc. etc. etc. If you write X=Y=3 you know that both X and Y equals 3. No mistaking that is there? When you know that antibotics make you feal better you know that there is a bacteria causing your problem. You go to these people with years of dedication and tell them antibotics helps me and what do they say or do? One of the things that one of them told me was your white count isn't high and you don't have an infection. I asked the same doctor 3 years later, me with a 103 temp, hows my white count. He looked puzzled and said it's normal. I could go on an on about the problems that I've had and STILL having with the doctors but I won't. How about this one first test for lyme disease came back negitive and the doctor said you don't have lyme. If it wasn't for a lyme smart doctor that knew the tests weren't worth a crap I would have believe the first one and went home and died. The 2 or 3 test came back so much positive they could culture it in my blood. Now you can say it's not the doctors it's their tests. Well if they know the tests arn't worth a crap WHY do they still use them? Want to just how interested a doctor is in your health? Next time you go to see one time your visit and see how long you can get him to stay. Bet it's 15 minutes or less. Go in there and tell him-her that your so weak that you can't do anything, your eyes are sinsitive to light, muscles twitch, bones and muscles hurt, and your on medicare. He'll put you on noratriptlene and arthuritus medicine. Since you don't have insurance that will pay for his golf clubs he won't check for anything else. If he does it will be an alisa, western blot, gunderson, or PCR test. They won't show anything. >Arrogance. you speak about the AIDS virus. Who's on the front line >exposing themselves to that virus every day in order to care for the >sick and infirm? You? No, It's none other than those banes of human >kind, the doctor. Save your righteous indignation for something you have >a right to be indignant about. AIDS is not a virus! It is a collection of viruses and bacterias that have multiplyed so much that it has compromized the immune system. If you like I'll send you an artical that explains what AIDS is and why it's still around. This wasn't ment as a flame just an elightenment. Take Care Reid -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: Doctor bashing
On 6 Jul 98 at 14:34, Dameon wrote: > They are, for the most part, untouchable -- and they know it. And > *this* is where any "evil" inherent in the situation ferments (in > my opinion). Even *if* they *do* get prosecuted for some mishap, > they just pack up and move to another state and start a practice > there! Amazingly, *VERY* few ever actually lose their license! By > the way: My cousin is sick of it all and is planning on leaving the > medical field; he's currently writing a book on The Bible. In my opinion, and this is as close to discussing politics as I'm willing to go here, their "untouchable" status is probably the best measure of the degree to which the market for medical care has been corrupted. At least in the US, the government pays for something like 40% of all medical spending through medicare/medicaid. By this influence, along with the longstanding convention of medical insurance as a *job benefit*, *very few* Americans have any direct control over the quality of health care delivered for all the billions in spending. And as each year passes more laws and regulations encroach further on any vestige of freedom in medicine. In the not so distant future it may become totally illegal to pay for medical care directly! Against this sort of background, I can believe that cynicism and callousness can infect even good men and women, just as even the *worst* of scoundrels are protected and nurtured within the system. I don't doubt your cousin sees his career choice as a mistake. It is not the practice of medicine but the *business* of medicine that dominates that marketplace today. I hear of many in the profession advising their sons and daughters to *not* become doctors. I have thus far been spared the worst horrors of the system's failures. I am acutely aware of, though I can scarcely begin to comprehend, the suffering and ill-treatment that some of our members have experienced at their hands. I'm not about censoring or censure of anyone for expressing their feelings or telling their story. I do want us to find a way that is *respectful* of their feelings, yet does not drive away others who may be willing, and above all capable, of being of help to us. Be well, Mike D. [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian] [mdev...@mail.id.net ] [Speaking only for myself... ] -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: Doc stuff and more
Doug (I have a brother by that name!) -
The test idea is a good one and I, too, will put in some money. Being on
a Welfare-type program, tho, I couldn't afford any more than $10
(sorry). But it did come to mind: What CS will be tested? Someone's
home-brewed? Some health food store brand? A name brand? As all who've
been following my story knows, I favor WaterOz. I wouldn't care if
another brand were tested because the WaterOz is literally saving my
life (and I have med records to prove it). I don't plan on ever
switching unless they go out of business ("if it ain't broke, don't fix
it"), so I think there'll be some disagreement on this issue.
Maybe it would be good to first find out from the group what the most
commonly used CS maker is (SOTA, etc) and use THAT as the base?
But I would still throw in $10 if the group decides to go for this, just
out of curiosity and for the evolution of CS knowledge.
Dameon
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Re: Good Doctors & Plumbers !!
There are great plumbers and there are I'm sure great doctors. I have a good personal friend who is a doctor, what we call a general practitioner, who has a very successful practice. Sure, he makes a heap of money, much more than I do working for myself. He is dedicated and I find his medical skils and his attitude to his patients beyond reproach. I use him as my own personal medico. On the other hand he has no real interest in CS or Oxygen therapies etc etc. He recently had to attend his father-in-law who was diagnosed with cancer. Ironically this elderly in-law was a long time practising chinese herbal doctor. Unable to cure himself the elder came to Sydney to let the younger western trained medico attend him. Sydney has as much start-of-the-art medical technology as most other large centres of the western world. The old herbalist has died in the meantime, we can safely assume that my friend did everything he would normally do, and in this case more. I don't believe he tried any alternatives, a large part of the problem was that the older hebalist had let his condition go untreated for far too long. I don't believe that this medico is in any way a bad person or inferior being. He is a product of his training and I must admire and admit that the training is very rigorous and one has to be interlectually very cabable, have a near photographic memory and very dedicated to complete one's medical course and the first years of initial hospital slavery that young interns are subjected to both here and in the US. Sure I can criticise him and say that he is more focussed on the dollar. If he halved his patient load and used the saved time in seeking and furthering his medical knowledge in the othodox and alternative area he would be to say the least, an unusual person, probably almost a saintly practitioner. We have a local magazine here that is for the "Sceptics". A group of "so called open-minded individuals" who need everything ablsolutely proven to them in a scientific manner. etc etc. I per chance was given their latest magizine. They had arranged for a small group of "patients" to vist a range of alternative health practitioners. One modality was Iridology, that practice of diagnosing ones state of health from the colour patterns and flecks visible in the iris of the eyes. One practitioner their patient visited, was one I had met and had some knowledge about, so I took some notice of the published article. Essentially the iridologist went thru his routine which lasted some 15/20 minutes, charged $45, taking colour photos of the eye patterns, made a whole lot of statements that could be take a number ways. Diagnosed problems that the patient had no symptoms or awareness of and gererally came across in a very non precise medical or healthful manner. The magazine of course gave him the general thumbs down and going by the general tenor of the article the practitioner did'nt deserve much more. Here in Sydney anybody can hang out their shingle and call themselves an alternative health person etc etc. In fact I know two individuals who, possibly out of boredom, did a massage course and now after some two or three years have established themselves, one as an Iridologist and the other as Naturopath. The iridologist whom I know well, has a pleasant and sympthetic way about her and there she is positioning hereself as a health expert. One can only hope they don't do any harm. And generally, one must be, as a consumer in all things, "Be Aware" and vigilant of the the good and bad plumbers and doctors. I do believe that every body has the right to say and do as they so please - as long as they do no "apparent harm". Yes, I do defend your rights to be and to say whatever you please. Within the lawful limits. I have become a dedicated CS consumer and thank the web for this knowledge and will continue to take my own health power back and make my own decisions. Always probing for the best knowledge and treatments. When necessary I will run as fast as I can to the medical profession, if I can benefit by their magic bullets and their quick fixes, if that's what's needed for that particular problem. Douglas Haack, syney Oz -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: Silver?..Are you sure?
Paul, Stick around and publish your alternative thoughts. Don't comply if you feel you mustn't. We need all your thoughts, just keep it friendly and practical. Take care! -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour
PPM
Hello, How can you ?guess? at the ppm? A solution I thought was high was low. Is this a special gift? Life is Fragile. Handle with Prayer Susan -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: Provocative thoughts
Reid Smith wrote: Dr. Rife found that the viruses that cause cancer come from > the E-coli bacteria. There are two and he called them the BX and BY > virus. He found that when the E-coli bacteria was in the right medium > it produced these viruses. When in one medium it produced the BX and when > in another it produced the BY. These are the two that causes the two > different types of cancer. So, does he have frequencies that kill this? Forgive me, I am still very ignorant about rife. Can you test for it? the BX and BY. Deb -- Debbie McDonald mailto:lullw...@flash.net -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: Provocative thoughts
Charles L. Church wrote: > > Hi Debbie, > > GSE, Grapefruit seed extract, also called "standardized extract of > grapefruit", is a powerful antimicrobial agent that is effective against > yeast and protazoans. However MANY people who take it get severe brain > fog such as myself. Oh, I have not listened to the excitotoxin url yet. I will tomorrow, my computer is not set up to hear it:(. I have aspartame poisoning, I guess you could say it ruined most of my adult life and continues , I guess. I will like to hear this. Do you think that die off too can cause brain fog? You know some say that coke(and others?) is putting aspartame in some products and not labeling it as such, too small an amount or calling it flavoring I think is the way they are getting around it. They said when Coke was called and asked point blank, they would not answer the question. Since I have regressed so much in the last two months, I will see if CS will help me. Deb -- Debbie McDonald mailto:lullw...@flash.net -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: Silver?..Are you sure?
Hello Paul! Interesting and, dare I say provocative statements! I hope you won't get flamed (hint, hint) and we can have a reasonable discussion. God knows, there must be newcomers to the list who will be entertaining some of the same doubts and concerns. They should see the answers. To wit.. On 5 Jul 98 at 19:51, Paul Bass wrote: > I have been here for a while. I was all for silver a first. I am > not now. I owe an explanation. > (1) Silver is questionable in it's effectiveness. *Not* if you talk to those here who have turned themselves around with its use. Not if you talk to those who have helped dozens of friends and aquaintances with it. What *is* questionable is the details of it's manufacture and exactly what is produced by different methods. Nor do we have a complete understanding of how it works and what it can and cannot do for certain. *Yes* there's a lot of work to be done, *but the core evidence* of efficacy does *not* go away just because not everyone who tries it succeeds. It definitely *is* effective where it is effective. > (2)Silver may have after effects...(turning blue)...I don't want > itDo you? You won't find any evidence that CS as it is made and used today has caused *anybody* to turn blue. The known toxic effect of over-ingestion of silver, argyria, has only been seen in cases of occupational exposure and high dosage silver *salts* that were prescribed by doctors *many years ago.* If you study the issue, you'll discover that the total amounts of silver being ingested by people using home-made CS and other preparations in the few tens of ppm range are so small that it would take months and years at very high dosages to accumulate to toxic levels *if* every microgram stayed in the body forever. We've seen evidence that silver, as it is being used by members of our list, is being excreted just fine, thank you! It is being found in elevated levels in their feces. Provided it is of small enough particle size, it just doesn't hang around. > (3) There are better alternatives. olive leaf extract ... > grapefruit seed extract..no side effects!!! As has already been pointed out, this is simpler and cheaper to make than those alternatives. I have no problem with discovering other things that are effective. My hope is that people will get better! If it's with silver, GfSE, olive leaf extract, or driving around in a convertible, I don't mind! And, since the number one supposed side effect of silver does not seem to be happening, then I guess we'll look at the lesser ones, like intestinal flora disruption and herxheimer reactions, and see what we can learn about mitigating them. > Thats it! My two cents worth. I suspect I will be flamed for this. > That's okay..I enjoy it. As I said, your concerns are common and I think you've already responded favorably to some of the answers you've gotten. I *don't* think the *others* here would enjoy a flame fest, however, and I hope you'll be as considerate as possible. On this list we start with the assumption that CS works and is worthy of studying. Beyond that, healthy questioning and discussions are encouraged, as long as the participants are civil and courteous. > Hope you read this far, Paul You were concise and to the point! Be well, sir! Mike D. list-owner [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian] [mdev...@mail.id.net ] [Speaking only for myself... ] -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: Doctor bashing
Dameon and listso true, so true! I worked in a hospital for over a year and had many occasions to enter the Doctors' lounges to service internet computers. I noticed that the bookshelves had more magazines about money management and investing than on medical science... certainly tells us what THEIR priorities are ...Tom likow...@earthlink.net wrote: > I can assure you that the thought of "helping" people comes *AFTER* > thoughts of money and what they'll be buying and where they'll be going > in the future. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour
GsE
GsE=Grapefruit seed Extract Life is Fragile. Handle with Prayer Susan -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour
Doc stuff and more
Wil, Ted and other list members, I appreciate all your thoughtful comments and I hope I was not taken to be holding the position that doctors are infallable. Progress and truth are perpetually moving targets that all are hopefully striving toward. There is much to say on this whole issue and it touches on many disparate but related things. I will try to stay focused. My posting was in response to the "doctor bashing" and generally negative view of what is called western medicine. Given the marvellous history of western medicine this strikes me as something akin to slapping your kid because he only got a B+ on his report card instead of an A. Room for improvement. Absolutely. But not too shabby nonetheless. I have great sympathy for Damien and his problem. My family lost a dear friend last year to CF. A delightful young man of 21 years with much promise and we are still saddened by the thought of it. I also have a close friend, a 40 year old woman, who was saved from the ravages of breast cancer by the same western medicine that failed our young friend. I would be the last to deny that we as human beings have much to learn but we is where we is. Since beginning to look into CS about six or eight months ago I have come to believe that there is the POSSIBILITY that this may be a substance of serious importance that has been overlooked. The majority of evidence presented on this list has been anecdotal in nature. This is not to diminish it but the fact remains that this is not the strongest form of evidence on which to conclude the truth of a thing. Wil, you are right that it has much value as a feedback mechanism, serving to confirm and bolster the confidence in conlusions drawn from experiment and controlled study. An example. A friend of mine was suffering for months from a sinus problem resulting in headaches, runny nose, and flu-like symptoms. I gave her some of my homebrewed CS of indeterminate concentration which she began to take. Within a week all the symptoms that had plagued her for months were gone. Did the CS cure her? Damned if I know. Maybe it was an allergy and she changed her shampoo. Maybe she dropped something from her diet. Maybe it was only coincidence and her immune system finally just caught up to the task. These are the kind of problems that are presented with anecdotal evidence. Well, you might say, look at all the positive anecdotes presented here. Again, for drawing scientific conclusions it is no more than suggestive. Maybe those who try CS and get no results simply walk away without ever reporting the negative results. It seems to me that much on the list is asserted as fact e.g. that 650 known pathogens can be killed by CS, or that CS is both bactericidal and virucidal, or that CS functions by disrupting the metablic pathways of bacteria, etc, is really nothing more than opinion, speculation, or the repetition of previously espoused myth. This sort of talk is fine and fun but does nothing to move CS closer to having a solid base of test evidence which might intrigue mainstream researchers enough to take the ball and run with it. About a week or so ago Bob Wells posted an interesting message about a friend that put him in contact with a firm that specialized in doing "microbial challenge" tests for industry. They were supposed to be quite capable of determining the minimum inhibitory concentration of a particular substance. The cost for testing was given at about $400. This strikes me as exactly the kind of basic science that we should be pursuing. I suggested at that time that we start a small fund to cover the cost of such testing and that I would be happy to salt it with $20 to get started. No response :( . I reopen the challenge now and I will up the ante. With a positive response from the list I will throw in $50 to jump start it. Don't tell me that you all wouldn't love to see the results of such a test! I know that I would. Best to all, Doug. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: to flame
Ah to Hell with it!. I replied to bjs flame in private but a public attack deserves a public response. Lots of anger there bjs, particularly for a person who hasn't been to a doctor in 25 years. What is this, vicarious crankiness? If you want to discuss, I'll discuss. If you want to go sarcastic, I'm perfectly able to go there too. To answer your questions, such as they were. No I'm not a doctor nor immediately related to any, although I have several friends who are doctors. Yes I am from from this country but I've spent plenty of time in the third world and I'm damned glad that I've got access to the medical care here that you seem to hate so much. If you saw firsthand the misery that exists out there you'd be a lot less quick to dismiss it. And as to arrogance, arrogance is playing at scientist in your kitchen lab in your spare time for six months then proposing to tell men and women who've dedicated their lives to the field that they don't have a clue what they're talking about. My field is computers. I've been doing it for over 20 years. You want to come tell me you've invented a new Super Duper Universal Program that will make any computer it runs on be 100 times faster than the hardware is designed for. Fine, but when we have that conversation you had better know a bit from a byte to start with or I just might be a little skeptical. Arrogance. you speak about the AIDS virus. Who's on the front line exposing themselves to that virus every day in order to care for the sick and infirm? You? No, It's none other than those banes of human kind, the doctor. Save your righteous indignation for something you have a right to be indignant about. Best wishes, Doug. P.S. With apologies to Mike and others, I know this isn't a productive path. Silence from me for the immediate future. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour
More Milk News
As threatned, I did another high tech test on milk. I put two four oz. glasses out in the garage on Friday. I put one teaspoon of CS in one of them. No signs of any smell or curlding as of this morning(Monday). The other untreated milk was FOUL smelling and curlded. So for the hell of it, I put one oz of the CS treated milk in the bad stuff. As of now, there is no smell in the bad one either. Tempreture around 80 degrees ambient. My conclusion is that the CS is either a good antibacterial agent or one hell of a deodorant. Anybody tested their CS yet? bjs -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour
RBC
Sorry folks! The RBC is 6-8 micrometers in diameter which is expressed as um--with a tail on the u. Thanks for the correction. Would have been nice to have a conversation! Life is Fragile. Handle with Prayer Susan -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: Doctors etc
Douglas McMurtrie wrote: > > Mike, > > Your statement about doctors was nicely done. Not having to be as > balanced as the moderator though, I would go a step further myself. A > large part of the problem with modern medicine is that it has been so > SUCCESSFUL. For Who? Our expectations have been raised to the point that we > expect perfection from them every time. How many here expect perfection? Most everyone that has to rely on modern medicine feels like it is sort of like rolling dice. And of course, when it comes to the money, the dice are loaded. Any reasonably objective view > of the capabilities of medicine today would have to conclude that the > level of knowledge and efficacy is damned near miraculous. Remember > folks, we wouldn't even have names and etiologies for any of the > diseases that are spoken about on this list if not for the tireless > efforts of doctors. At this point, are you from this country? Look at what progress has been made in the general > quality of life in the past hundred years alone. A hundred years ago a > thing as small as a toothache could kill a person. Today, something as small as a cavity can kill a person, especially when the dentist passes on his Aids virus. There was only one > option. Pull it. Today people in their sixties routinely have all their > teeth in relatively healthy condition. You seem to be evaluating teeth to health for the most part. Could be that people just brush their teeth nowadays? That was not a standard practice from what the old timers tell me. Just one tiny example out of > thousands that could be provided as to how our greatly our lives have > been improved by these despised doctors. I haven't been to one in 25 years. If I knew then what I know now, it would of been 29 years. The last time I was really sick, it was from the whooping cough, and I got that from the whooping cough vaccine! My major surgery was uneventful enough though, the doctor burned out a wart on the top of my skull with what looked like a soldering iron. , I respectfully suggest that the situation is completely > reversed from that proposed. It is not that most doctors are incompetent > scum with a few minor exceptions. It is the other way around. Most > doctors are bright, knowlegeable, effective practicioners of medicine > with a few minor (but harmful) exceptions So you think they can overcome the complications of Viagra with Porzac? . The onus is on US to raise the quality of our > experimentation and presentation if we hope to move this thing from the > realm of folklore and make its benefits available to the public at > large. I suppose you could say the same thing about them. How many STUDIES do these jokers get anyway? Coffee is bad, salt is bad, the list is so long that my brain automatically deletes that information like that. Then they do 180's on the previous studies! They haven't got a clue what is going on. They are so EDUCATED that they think they are IT. That is arrogance, and your explanation as to why they shouldn't listen to ordinary people is arrogance personified. Then when they can't do anymore for their patients with their limited ways, they exile them to the land of Hospice. If you are a doctor or a relative to a doctor, obtain some high quality CS and try it on the antibiotic resistant cases of staph before they get butchered to smithereens. bjs -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: Doctor bashing
In my very first response to this subject I used the term "scum", including *most* doctors into that catagory. That was wrong. Douglas McMurtrie, Mike D and others have made good points to the contrary in their defense. 98% of all doctors are not "scum", but I think the percentage of those in the medical field that are driven by ego and selfish interests (monetary) are fair higher than just a few: Probably more in the 50-75% range. If that weren't so, you'd be seeing a lot more of them working for a lot less money and/or even going on "missions" to other countries to work with devastated people who have literally nothing. But instead you see them charging $100 (or more) for a 15-minute office visit and driving very nice cars and living in very nice homes and taking very nice vacations (and many only "work" 4 or 5 hours a day, too); hardly suffering for their "cause" to "help" humanity, in my opinion. Not to drag this thing out any longer because it's getting really boring, but having been in the hospital more times than I care to remember since the age of 4, and being up at all hours while there, and getting to know MANY doctors and interns alike, and listening to their conversations (sometimes without them realizing it), I can assure you that the thought of "helping" people comes *AFTER* thoughts of money and what they'll be buying and where they'll be going in the future. Sorry to step on any toes here, but this is pure and honest observation; I have *nothing* to gain by making such statements. In fact, in a sense, I'm "biting the hand that feeds me" because I could have another lung collapse and be under their complete control tomorrow! But the truth is the truth. My own cousin is a surgeon who's been "varifying" this truth for the past 10 years to me with *many* stories of operations that don't need to be done and wrong drugs that are routinely given and other negligences that are swept under the rug continually. I personally TWICE IN THE PAST YEAR have had to prove to/remind my doctor of the drug mistakes he was making with me(!), but he wasn't paid any less for doing a bad job! They are, for the most part, untouchable -- and they know it. And *this* is where any "evil" inherent in the situation ferments (in my opinion). Even *if* they *do* get prosecuted for some mishap, they just pack up and move to another state and start a practice there! Amazingly, *VERY* few ever actually lose their license! By the way: My cousin is sick of it all and is planning on leaving the medical field; he's currently writing a book on The Bible. See ya! Dameon -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: Silver?..Are you sure?
You have an excellent point. The things I mentioned as alternatives must be purchased. I agree. -Original Message- From: John and Valerie Surgeon To: silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Monday, July 06, 1998 7:10 AM Subject: Re: Silver?..Are you sure? >At 07:51 PM 7/5/98 -, you wrote: >>Hi all, >> I have been here for a while. I was all for silver a first. I am not now. >I owe an explanation. >> (1) Silver is questionable in it's effectiveness. >> (2)Silver may have after effects...(turning blue)...I don't want itDo >you? >> (3) There are better alternatives.olive leaf extract...grapefruit >seed extract..no side effects!!! >> Thats it! My two cents worth. I suspect I will be flamed for this. That's >okay..I enjoy it. >> Hope you read this far, >>Paul >> >> >>Attachment Converted: "c:\eudora\attach\Silver.htm" > >I'M CHECKING OUT SILVER, ENERGY MEDICINE, AND OXYGEN THERAPY FROM A >SURVIVAL STANDPOINT. EVERY ALTERNATIVE HERBAL REMEDY CAN BE STOPPED BY THE >FEDS. HOW ARE THEY GONNA STOP SOMEONE WITH SOME 9 VOLT BATTERIES AND >SILVER COINS? HOW CAN THEY STOP US FROM GETTING AN AQUARIUM OZONATOR AND >MAKING OUR OWN OZONE ENRICHED WATER? REMEMBER, WHEN 9 VOLT BATTERIES ARE >OUTLAWED, ONLY OUTLAWS WILL HAVE 9 VOLT BATTERIES. > > >-- >The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. > >To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: >silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com >with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. > >To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com > >List maintainer: Mike Devour > -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: Silver?..Are you sure?
-Original Message- From: It's not me To: silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Monday, July 06, 1998 9:31 AM Subject: Re: Silver?..Are you sure? Paul, And your purpose for telling us all this is what? To attempt to share information. Trolling for a fight or trying to sell us some Olive Leaf or Grapefruit Seed Extract? Neither. Your post is a bit like going to mass and standing up in the middle of the service and yelling Catholicism sucks. My post is more like someone discussing silver on a silver list..imagine that. -Original Message- From: W P BASS To: silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Sunday, July 05, 1998 7:02 PM Subject: Silver?..Are you sure? Hi all, I have been here for a while. I was all for silver a first. I am not now. I owe an explanation. (1) Silver is questionable in it's effectiveness. (2)Silver may have after effects...(turning blue)...I don't want itDo you? (3) There are better alternatives.olive leaf extract...grapefruit seed extract..no side effects!!! Thats it! My two cents worth. I suspect I will be flamed for this. That's okay..I enjoy it. Hope you read this far, Paul
Re: Silver?..Are you sure?
You have a point. We don't have the ability to make GSE and olive trees won't grow everywhere. -Original Message- From: John and Valerie Surgeon To: silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Monday, July 06, 1998 7:10 AM Subject: Re: Silver?..Are you sure? >At 07:51 PM 7/5/98 -, you wrote: >>Hi all, >> I have been here for a while. I was all for silver a first. I am not now. >I owe an explanation. >> (1) Silver is questionable in it's effectiveness. >> (2)Silver may have after effects...(turning blue)...I don't want itDo >you? >> (3) There are better alternatives.olive leaf extract...grapefruit >seed extract..no side effects!!! >> Thats it! My two cents worth. I suspect I will be flamed for this. That's >okay..I enjoy it. >> Hope you read this far, >>Paul >> >> >>Attachment Converted: "c:\eudora\attach\Silver.htm" > >I'M CHECKING OUT SILVER, ENERGY MEDICINE, AND OXYGEN THERAPY FROM A >SURVIVAL STANDPOINT. EVERY ALTERNATIVE HERBAL REMEDY CAN BE STOPPED BY THE >FEDS. HOW ARE THEY GONNA STOP SOMEONE WITH SOME 9 VOLT BATTERIES AND >SILVER COINS? HOW CAN THEY STOP US FROM GETTING AN AQUARIUM OZONATOR AND >MAKING OUR OWN OZONE ENRICHED WATER? REMEMBER, WHEN 9 VOLT BATTERIES ARE >OUTLAWED, ONLY OUTLAWS WILL HAVE 9 VOLT BATTERIES. > > >-- >The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. > >To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: >silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com >with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. > >To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com > >List maintainer: Mike Devour > -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour
TDS - 1 - My results
For those who are comparing TDS notes, here are my results: Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL USA Room temp: 81 F Tap water: 121 ppm Filtered water: 131 ppm (after 1 min of running water) Sprinkler well water: 184 ppm Office tap water (Miami): 175 ppm 5 gallon Zepherhills (sp?): 152 ppm Distilled water (Clear Springs, Steam distillation): 1 ppm CS: 8 ppm (old batch, will update after I can recreate same ppm after multiple tries) Sean -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: Peter/MS
Peter, dear, Been thinking about things. Seems that all the systems have to be "tweaked" to perform better. Not just the symptoms but the cause. Look at http://www.wilsonssyndrome.com Follow the directions there and see if you wawnt to persue this or if you fit into the category to be also dealing with this. Happens to people who are stressed--body and otherwise. Makes perfect sense and hopefully there would be a doc to help you with this. Once I brought the body temp up thje pain diminished. I'm in the middle of doing this so I don't know the ultimate answer. "Resetting the thyroid in people with low temps and normal thyroid tests. Just a thought to pass on to you. Life is Fragile. Handle with Prayer Susan -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: Provocative thoughts
Charles L. Church wrote: > > Secondly, I've been meaning to suggest to the list another WILD > possibility... please forgive me if I seem rustic, but could the removal > of silver and gold coin from circulation be a major contributing factor > the onset of so many modern diseases? Mankind have used these for money, > (and for very good reason), from creation till now, and now all these > wierd diseases? > > Charles > http://www.piggott.net/~hhr I have noticed that decaying bacteria SEEM to be inhibited by the mere proximity of silver. So, if you had silver bed springs, you otta be in pretty good shape. Maybe the people who invented SILVERWARE aren't so dumb. bjs -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour
Doctors etc
Mike, Your statement about doctors was nicely done. Not having to be as balanced as the moderator though, I would go a step further myself. A large part of the problem with modern medicine is that it has been so SUCCESSFUL. Our expectations have been raised to the point that we expect perfection from them every time. Any reasonably objective view of the capabilities of medicine today would have to conclude that the level of knowledge and efficacy is damned near miraculous. Remember folks, we wouldn't even have names and etiologies for any of the diseases that are spoken about on this list if not for the tireless efforts of doctors. Look at what progress has been made in the general quality of life in the past hundred years alone. A hundred years ago a thing as small as a toothache could kill a person. There was only one option. Pull it. Today people in their sixties routinely have all their teeth in relatively healthy condition. Just one tiny example out of thousands that could be provided as to how our greatly our lives have been improved by these despised doctors. Having said that, I do agree however, (as my father used to tell me) we should always be aware that 50% of the doctors finished in the bottom half of their class :). I could also easily juxtapose the progress of so called allopathic medicine with some of the New Age "medicine" that is regularly promoted here but that would only be inflammatory so I resist the temptation. In any case, I respectfully suggest that the situation is completely reversed from that proposed. It is not that most doctors are incompetent scum with a few minor exceptions. It is the other way around. Most doctors are bright, knowlegeable, effective practicioners of medicine with a few minor (but harmful) exceptions. Remember also that we are mucking about in their world from a certain point of view. If an M.D. seems arrogant about some of these matters we shouldn't forget that this is an individual who has been highly trained and educated about these very same matters and lives and works in that environment 365 days a year. Why should he believe a bunch of "scientifically uneducated" people that provide only anecdotal evidence ( the weakest type of evidence ). The onus is on US to raise the quality of our experimentation and presentation if we hope to move this thing from the realm of folklore and make its benefits available to the public at large. I'll stop now before descending into a full blown rant and apologize in advance if I've offended. Kindest regards to all. Doug. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: Silver?..Are you sure?
Paul, And your purpose for telling us all this is what? Trolling for a fight or trying to sell us some Olive Leaf or Grapefruit Seed Extract? Your post is a bit like going to mass and standing up in the middle of the service and yelling Catholicism sucks. -Original Message- From: W P BASS To: silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Sunday, July 05, 1998 7:02 PM Subject: Silver?..Are you sure? Hi all, I have been here for a while. I was all for silver a first. I am not now. I owe an explanation. (1) Silver is questionable in it's effectiveness. (2)Silver may have after effects...(turning blue)...I don't want itDo you? (3) There are better alternatives.olive leaf extract...grapefruit seed extract..no side effects!!! Thats it! My two cents worth. I suspect I will be flamed for this. That's okay..I enjoy it. Hope you read this far, Paul
Re: Silver?..Are you sure?
At 07:51 PM 7/5/98 -, you wrote: >Hi all, > I have been here for a while. I was all for silver a first. I am not now. I owe an explanation. > (1) Silver is questionable in it's effectiveness. > (2)Silver may have after effects...(turning blue)...I don't want itDo you? > (3) There are better alternatives.olive leaf extract...grapefruit seed extract..no side effects!!! > Thats it! My two cents worth. I suspect I will be flamed for this. That's okay..I enjoy it. > Hope you read this far, >Paul > > >Attachment Converted: "c:\eudora\attach\Silver.htm" I'M CHECKING OUT SILVER, ENERGY MEDICINE, AND OXYGEN THERAPY FROM A SURVIVAL STANDPOINT. EVERY ALTERNATIVE HERBAL REMEDY CAN BE STOPPED BY THE FEDS. HOW ARE THEY GONNA STOP SOMEONE WITH SOME 9 VOLT BATTERIES AND SILVER COINS? HOW CAN THEY STOP US FROM GETTING AN AQUARIUM OZONATOR AND MAKING OUR OWN OZONE ENRICHED WATER? REMEMBER, WHEN 9 VOLT BATTERIES ARE OUTLAWED, ONLY OUTLAWS WILL HAVE 9 VOLT BATTERIES. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour
