Re: Would you like to recover your scene?

[Luc-Eric Rousseau]

if you had ascii you could delete part of the scene file until it
loads.. right now it's impossible to do that.
when "merge scene" avoid the crash, the problem is usually loading the
information (cameras, modes, etc) for the viewports or some other view
in the layout that saves extra information in the scene.  it shouldn't
happen, but it's been known the happen, especially with real time
shader modes I think. Saving normally the scene after merge is fine.

there is a Scene Debugging tab in the user preferences with options
that may help debugging more difficult crashes

look especially at Load Recovery Journal File

http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/index.html?url=files/userprefs519.htm,topicNumber=d30e804537,hash=WSC52E97AF964D6E4A85D54D15483CB299-0021

also
http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/ps/dl/item?siteID=123112&id=13487723&linkID=12544120


On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 7:25 AM, Guillaume Laforge
 wrote:
> Hi Raph,
>
> We all agree that ASCII file editing (like with Maya .ma) would be very
> useful.
>
> My point was just about the crash issue. Having working with the source code
> of Softimage (even if I was not a persistence specialist), I can imagine how
> hard it would be to debug a crash in an ASCII scene file. By hard, I mean,
> from a production point of view. Of course people are free to spend
> days/weeks/months trying to debug such problem :).
>
>

RE: Would you like to recover your scene?

[Matt Lind]

I don't think too many people would debug an ASCII scene as much as edit it so 
they can salvage work.

The main problem with Softimage is it's file format is largely a black box and 
there are very few, if any, options to working around problems encountered in 
production when things go awry.  If the SDK were fully transparent we'd have 
seen a number of 3rd party solutions by now, but we don't.  I tried writing my 
own XML based file format for this project a few years ago only to run into the 
problem of not having enough information available to properly rebuild the 
scene accurately.

A simple example is the movecomponent operator.  All it does is apply a 
transformation on vertices and should be very easy to support - but it's 
impossible because the transformation applied by the movecomponent operator is 
not exposed anywhere where my code can get at it.  As a result I have to either 
freeze construction history to remove dependencies, or force users to not use 
certain tools so I can parse and rebuild the scene.  Freeze construction 
history is not really an option because when you get to envelopes, ICE, and 
secondary shape corrections, it's nearly impossible to guess how to reconstruct 
things as again, much of the required information is not exposed in the SDK.


Matt



From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Guillaume Laforge
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2013 4:26 AM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Would you like to recover your scene?

Hi Raph,

We all agree that ASCII file editing (like with Maya .ma) would be very useful.

My point was just about the crash issue. Having working with the source code of 
Softimage (even if I was not a persistence specialist), I can imagine how hard 
it would be to debug a crash in an ASCII scene file. By hard, I mean, from a 
production point of view. Of course people are free to spend days/weeks/months 
trying to debug such problem :).





On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 8:20 PM, Raffaele Fragapane 
mailto:raffsxsil...@googlemail.com>> wrote:
There's actually a surprising number of issues that you can spot right away 
when you have an ascii file that don't involve the kind of ASCII search that 
feels like picking fleas off a wolf.
Scene bloat, something Maya suffers for enormously but Soft isn't exactly 
immune to, is just one of many examples where if you have an ascii file finding 
the recurring pattern of orphaned data is easy and can bring a file back from 
the death.

Mind, not that it seems this is ever going to happen for Soft anyway at this 
point.

On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 9:22 AM, Guillaume Laforge 
mailto:guillaume.laforge...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I don't want to be the TD searching in this ASCII .scn file trying to find out 
how to fix the crash.

Just saying :)

On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 3:01 PM, Andy Jones 
mailto:andy.jo...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I 100% agree and am fully in favor of an ascii scene format.  Just
pointing out that it alone unfortunately doesn't solve the crash
recovery problem.


On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 3:23 AM, Angus Davidson
mailto:angus.david...@wits.ac.za>> wrote:
> An Ascii file format really is a must. Apart from being able to hack and 
> restore file (which saved many of my students when we were still using Maya, 
> it also allow Czars Git plugin to become far more useful. To be able to run 
> diffs on a scene to find out whats actually changed  would be amazing.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Angus
> 
> From: Andy Jones [andy.jo...@gmail.com<mailto:andy.jo...@gmail.com>]
> Sent: 08 September 2013 10:15 AM
> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
> Subject: Re: Would you like to recover your scene?
>
> I'd love an ascii scene file format as much as the next guy, but
> people still lose plenty of unsaved changes with Maya ascii.  Aside
> from general hackability, the big advantage of .ma is being able to
> fix broken scenes after they've been saved.
>
> On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:48 AM, Toonafish 
> mailto:ron...@toonafish.nl>> wrote:
>> Word !  That would save sooo many lives.
>>
>>
>> - Ronald
>>
>>
>> On 9/7/2013 18:23, Octavian Ureche wrote:
>>
>> Native ascii scene file format. Period.
>> Though we've been asking for it forever now.
>>
>> -Octav
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:58 AM, Matt Lind 
>> mailto:ml...@carbinestudios.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> My only beef with your plugin is it cannot account for commands which do
>>> not log.  There's a good probability the scene your plugin generates is not
>>> an accurate representation of what last state of the scene actually was

Re: Would you like to recover your scene?

[Guillaume Laforge]

Hi Raph,

We all agree that ASCII file editing (like with Maya .ma) would be very
useful.

My point was just about the crash issue. Having working with the source
code of Softimage (even if I was not a persistence specialist), I can
imagine how hard it would be to debug a crash in an ASCII scene file. By
hard, I mean, from a production point of view. Of course people are free to
spend days/weeks/months trying to debug such problem :).






On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 8:20 PM, Raffaele Fragapane <
raffsxsil...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> There's actually a surprising number of issues that you can spot right
> away when you have an ascii file that don't involve the kind of ASCII
> search that feels like picking fleas off a wolf.
>
> Scene bloat, something Maya suffers for enormously but Soft isn't exactly
> immune to, is just one of many examples where if you have an ascii file
> finding the recurring pattern of orphaned data is easy and can bring a file
> back from the death.
>
> Mind, not that it seems this is ever going to happen for Soft anyway at
> this point.
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 9:22 AM, Guillaume Laforge <
> guillaume.laforge...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I don't want to be the TD searching in this ASCII .scn file trying to
>> find out how to fix the crash.
>>
>> Just saying :)
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 3:01 PM, Andy Jones  wrote:
>>
>>> I 100% agree and am fully in favor of an ascii scene format.  Just
>>> pointing out that it alone unfortunately doesn't solve the crash
>>> recovery problem.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 3:23 AM, Angus Davidson
>>>  wrote:
>>> > An Ascii file format really is a must. Apart from being able to hack
>>> and restore file (which saved many of my students when we were still using
>>> Maya, it also allow Czars Git plugin to become far more useful. To be able
>>> to run diffs on a scene to find out whats actually changed  would be
>>> amazing.
>>> >
>>> > Kind regards
>>> >
>>> > Angus
>>> > 
>>> > From: Andy Jones [andy.jo...@gmail.com]
>>> > Sent: 08 September 2013 10:15 AM
>>> > To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>>> > Subject: Re: Would you like to recover your scene?
>>> >
>>> > I'd love an ascii scene file format as much as the next guy, but
>>> > people still lose plenty of unsaved changes with Maya ascii.  Aside
>>> > from general hackability, the big advantage of .ma is being able to
>>> > fix broken scenes after they've been saved.
>>> >
>>> > On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:48 AM, Toonafish  wrote:
>>> >> Word !  That would save sooo many lives.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> - Ronald
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On 9/7/2013 18:23, Octavian Ureche wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Native ascii scene file format. Period.
>>> >> Though we've been asking for it forever now.
>>> >>
>>> >> -Octav
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:58 AM, Matt Lind 
>>> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> My only beef with your plugin is it cannot account for commands
>>> which do
>>> >>> not log.  There’s a good probability the scene your plugin generates
>>> is not
>>> >>> an accurate representation of what last state of the scene actually
>>> was
>>> >>> before it crashed.  Animation edits, for example, do not log at all.
>>>  Custom
>>> >>> tools flagged to not log, or tools called from self installing
>>> commands do
>>> >>> not log either.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Back in good ol’ days of XSI v6.x when we were treading water to get
>>> >>> anything to function in XSI without exploding, I desperately tried to
>>> >>> salvage crashed scenes using a similar technique, but because many
>>> commands
>>> >>> were not logged it was not possible to salvage work or even rebuild
>>> it
>>> >>> enough to send to Softimage to diagnose the cause of the crash to
>>> get it
>>> >>> fixed.  Critical missing steps caused the rebuild script to error
>>> out, or if
>>> >>> it was lucky enough to get to the end withou

Re: Would you like to recover your scene?

[Raffaele Fragapane]

There's actually a surprising number of issues that you can spot right away
when you have an ascii file that don't involve the kind of ASCII search
that feels like picking fleas off a wolf.

Scene bloat, something Maya suffers for enormously but Soft isn't exactly
immune to, is just one of many examples where if you have an ascii file
finding the recurring pattern of orphaned data is easy and can bring a file
back from the death.

Mind, not that it seems this is ever going to happen for Soft anyway at
this point.


On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 9:22 AM, Guillaume Laforge <
guillaume.laforge...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I don't want to be the TD searching in this ASCII .scn file trying to find
> out how to fix the crash.
>
> Just saying :)
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 3:01 PM, Andy Jones  wrote:
>
>> I 100% agree and am fully in favor of an ascii scene format.  Just
>> pointing out that it alone unfortunately doesn't solve the crash
>> recovery problem.
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 3:23 AM, Angus Davidson
>>  wrote:
>> > An Ascii file format really is a must. Apart from being able to hack
>> and restore file (which saved many of my students when we were still using
>> Maya, it also allow Czars Git plugin to become far more useful. To be able
>> to run diffs on a scene to find out whats actually changed  would be
>> amazing.
>> >
>> > Kind regards
>> >
>> > Angus
>> > ____________________
>> > From: Andy Jones [andy.jo...@gmail.com]
>> > Sent: 08 September 2013 10:15 AM
>> > To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>> > Subject: Re: Would you like to recover your scene?
>> >
>> > I'd love an ascii scene file format as much as the next guy, but
>> > people still lose plenty of unsaved changes with Maya ascii.  Aside
>> > from general hackability, the big advantage of .ma is being able to
>> > fix broken scenes after they've been saved.
>> >
>> > On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:48 AM, Toonafish  wrote:
>> >> Word !  That would save sooo many lives.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> - Ronald
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 9/7/2013 18:23, Octavian Ureche wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Native ascii scene file format. Period.
>> >> Though we've been asking for it forever now.
>> >>
>> >> -Octav
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:58 AM, Matt Lind 
>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> My only beef with your plugin is it cannot account for commands which
>> do
>> >>> not log.  There’s a good probability the scene your plugin generates
>> is not
>> >>> an accurate representation of what last state of the scene actually
>> was
>> >>> before it crashed.  Animation edits, for example, do not log at all.
>>  Custom
>> >>> tools flagged to not log, or tools called from self installing
>> commands do
>> >>> not log either.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Back in good ol’ days of XSI v6.x when we were treading water to get
>> >>> anything to function in XSI without exploding, I desperately tried to
>> >>> salvage crashed scenes using a similar technique, but because many
>> commands
>> >>> were not logged it was not possible to salvage work or even rebuild it
>> >>> enough to send to Softimage to diagnose the cause of the crash to get
>> it
>> >>> fixed.  Critical missing steps caused the rebuild script to error
>> out, or if
>> >>> it was lucky enough to get to the end without error, the end result
>> was not
>> >>> at all like what it should’ve been.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Matt
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
>> >>> [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Andy
>> Jones
>> >>> Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 8:44 PM
>> >>> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>> >>> Subject: Re: Would you like to recover your scene?
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> I've said this before, but the script log comes really really close to
>> >>> impleme

Re: Would you like to recover your scene?

[Guillaume Laforge]

I don't want to be the TD searching in this ASCII .scn file trying to find
out how to fix the crash.

Just saying :)


On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 3:01 PM, Andy Jones  wrote:

> I 100% agree and am fully in favor of an ascii scene format.  Just
> pointing out that it alone unfortunately doesn't solve the crash
> recovery problem.
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 3:23 AM, Angus Davidson
>  wrote:
> > An Ascii file format really is a must. Apart from being able to hack and
> restore file (which saved many of my students when we were still using
> Maya, it also allow Czars Git plugin to become far more useful. To be able
> to run diffs on a scene to find out whats actually changed  would be
> amazing.
> >
> > Kind regards
> >
> > Angus
> > 
> > From: Andy Jones [andy.jo...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: 08 September 2013 10:15 AM
> > To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
> > Subject: Re: Would you like to recover your scene?
> >
> > I'd love an ascii scene file format as much as the next guy, but
> > people still lose plenty of unsaved changes with Maya ascii.  Aside
> > from general hackability, the big advantage of .ma is being able to
> > fix broken scenes after they've been saved.
> >
> > On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:48 AM, Toonafish  wrote:
> >> Word !  That would save sooo many lives.
> >>
> >>
> >> - Ronald
> >>
> >>
> >> On 9/7/2013 18:23, Octavian Ureche wrote:
> >>
> >> Native ascii scene file format. Period.
> >> Though we've been asking for it forever now.
> >>
> >> -Octav
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:58 AM, Matt Lind 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> My only beef with your plugin is it cannot account for commands which
> do
> >>> not log.  There’s a good probability the scene your plugin generates
> is not
> >>> an accurate representation of what last state of the scene actually was
> >>> before it crashed.  Animation edits, for example, do not log at all.
>  Custom
> >>> tools flagged to not log, or tools called from self installing
> commands do
> >>> not log either.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Back in good ol’ days of XSI v6.x when we were treading water to get
> >>> anything to function in XSI without exploding, I desperately tried to
> >>> salvage crashed scenes using a similar technique, but because many
> commands
> >>> were not logged it was not possible to salvage work or even rebuild it
> >>> enough to send to Softimage to diagnose the cause of the crash to get
> it
> >>> fixed.  Critical missing steps caused the rebuild script to error out,
> or if
> >>> it was lucky enough to get to the end without error, the end result
> was not
> >>> at all like what it should’ve been.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Matt
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
> >>> [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Andy
> Jones
> >>> Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 8:44 PM
> >>> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
> >>> Subject: Re: Would you like to recover your scene?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I've said this before, but the script log comes really really close to
> >>> implementing "journalling" which is the thing that made filesystems
> more
> >>> robust in the 2000's.  the binary dump emergency save thing is really
> kind
> >>> of a silly way to attack the problem of replaying a journal of
> operations.
> >>> If Autodesk realized this, they'd prioritize the completeness of
> command
> >>> logging and build a simple toolset for replaying the unsaved operation
> >>> journal.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I sent my "repeatHistory" plugin to the beta list a while ago and got
> >>> crickets.  Maybe I'll try again...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> All it does is parse the script log for the last open or save operation
> >>> and them exec the remainder.  It would work even better with an event
> that
> >>> sets the script log path on scene open/save.
> &

Re: Would you like to recover your scene?

[Andy Jones]

I 100% agree and am fully in favor of an ascii scene format.  Just
pointing out that it alone unfortunately doesn't solve the crash
recovery problem.


On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 3:23 AM, Angus Davidson
 wrote:
> An Ascii file format really is a must. Apart from being able to hack and 
> restore file (which saved many of my students when we were still using Maya, 
> it also allow Czars Git plugin to become far more useful. To be able to run 
> diffs on a scene to find out whats actually changed  would be amazing.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Angus
> 
> From: Andy Jones [andy.jo...@gmail.com]
> Sent: 08 September 2013 10:15 AM
> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
> Subject: Re: Would you like to recover your scene?
>
> I'd love an ascii scene file format as much as the next guy, but
> people still lose plenty of unsaved changes with Maya ascii.  Aside
> from general hackability, the big advantage of .ma is being able to
> fix broken scenes after they've been saved.
>
> On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:48 AM, Toonafish  wrote:
>> Word !  That would save sooo many lives.
>>
>>
>> - Ronald
>>
>>
>> On 9/7/2013 18:23, Octavian Ureche wrote:
>>
>> Native ascii scene file format. Period.
>> Though we've been asking for it forever now.
>>
>> -Octav
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:58 AM, Matt Lind  wrote:
>>>
>>> My only beef with your plugin is it cannot account for commands which do
>>> not log.  There’s a good probability the scene your plugin generates is not
>>> an accurate representation of what last state of the scene actually was
>>> before it crashed.  Animation edits, for example, do not log at all.  Custom
>>> tools flagged to not log, or tools called from self installing commands do
>>> not log either.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Back in good ol’ days of XSI v6.x when we were treading water to get
>>> anything to function in XSI without exploding, I desperately tried to
>>> salvage crashed scenes using a similar technique, but because many commands
>>> were not logged it was not possible to salvage work or even rebuild it
>>> enough to send to Softimage to diagnose the cause of the crash to get it
>>> fixed.  Critical missing steps caused the rebuild script to error out, or if
>>> it was lucky enough to get to the end without error, the end result was not
>>> at all like what it should’ve been.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Matt
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
>>> [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Andy Jones
>>> Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 8:44 PM
>>> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>>> Subject: Re: Would you like to recover your scene?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I've said this before, but the script log comes really really close to
>>> implementing "journalling" which is the thing that made filesystems more
>>> robust in the 2000's.  the binary dump emergency save thing is really kind
>>> of a silly way to attack the problem of replaying a journal of operations.
>>> If Autodesk realized this, they'd prioritize the completeness of command
>>> logging and build a simple toolset for replaying the unsaved operation
>>> journal.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I sent my "repeatHistory" plugin to the beta list a while ago and got
>>> crickets.  Maybe I'll try again...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> All it does is parse the script log for the last open or save operation
>>> and them exec the remainder.  It would work even better with an event that
>>> sets the script log path on scene open/save.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, September 6, 2013, Jeremie Passerin wrote:
>>>
>>> Got issue with the auto-recover lately, but the scene was actualy properly
>>> saved before crashing. just needed to load it manually.
>>>
>>> http://xsisupport.com/2011/10/15/crash-recovery-in-softimage/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6 September 2013 13:18, Eric Thivierge  wrote:
>>>
>>> You're doing it wrong...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On September-06-13 4:15:36 PM, Eric Lampi wrote:
>>>
>>> SoftImage: "Hey Eric, I see that you crashed.. How would you like to
>>> recover your scene?"
>>>
>>&

RE: Would you like to recover your scene?

[Angus Davidson]

An Ascii file format really is a must. Apart from being able to hack and 
restore file (which saved many of my students when we were still using Maya, it 
also allow Czars Git plugin to become far more useful. To be able to run diffs 
on a scene to find out whats actually changed  would be amazing.

Kind regards

Angus 

From: Andy Jones [andy.jo...@gmail.com]
Sent: 08 September 2013 10:15 AM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Would you like to recover your scene?

I'd love an ascii scene file format as much as the next guy, but
people still lose plenty of unsaved changes with Maya ascii.  Aside
from general hackability, the big advantage of .ma is being able to
fix broken scenes after they've been saved.

On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:48 AM, Toonafish  wrote:
> Word !  That would save sooo many lives.
>
>
> - Ronald
>
>
> On 9/7/2013 18:23, Octavian Ureche wrote:
>
> Native ascii scene file format. Period.
> Though we've been asking for it forever now.
>
> -Octav
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:58 AM, Matt Lind  wrote:
>>
>> My only beef with your plugin is it cannot account for commands which do
>> not log.  There’s a good probability the scene your plugin generates is not
>> an accurate representation of what last state of the scene actually was
>> before it crashed.  Animation edits, for example, do not log at all.  Custom
>> tools flagged to not log, or tools called from self installing commands do
>> not log either.
>>
>>
>>
>> Back in good ol’ days of XSI v6.x when we were treading water to get
>> anything to function in XSI without exploding, I desperately tried to
>> salvage crashed scenes using a similar technique, but because many commands
>> were not logged it was not possible to salvage work or even rebuild it
>> enough to send to Softimage to diagnose the cause of the crash to get it
>> fixed.  Critical missing steps caused the rebuild script to error out, or if
>> it was lucky enough to get to the end without error, the end result was not
>> at all like what it should’ve been.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Matt
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
>> [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Andy Jones
>> Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 8:44 PM
>> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>> Subject: Re: Would you like to recover your scene?
>>
>>
>>
>> I've said this before, but the script log comes really really close to
>> implementing "journalling" which is the thing that made filesystems more
>> robust in the 2000's.  the binary dump emergency save thing is really kind
>> of a silly way to attack the problem of replaying a journal of operations.
>> If Autodesk realized this, they'd prioritize the completeness of command
>> logging and build a simple toolset for replaying the unsaved operation
>> journal.
>>
>>
>>
>> I sent my "repeatHistory" plugin to the beta list a while ago and got
>> crickets.  Maybe I'll try again...
>>
>>
>>
>> All it does is parse the script log for the last open or save operation
>> and them exec the remainder.  It would work even better with an event that
>> sets the script log path on scene open/save.
>>
>>
>> On Friday, September 6, 2013, Jeremie Passerin wrote:
>>
>> Got issue with the auto-recover lately, but the scene was actualy properly
>> saved before crashing. just needed to load it manually.
>>
>> http://xsisupport.com/2011/10/15/crash-recovery-in-softimage/
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6 September 2013 13:18, Eric Thivierge  wrote:
>>
>> You're doing it wrong...
>>
>>
>>
>> On September-06-13 4:15:36 PM, Eric Lampi wrote:
>>
>> SoftImage: "Hey Eric, I see that you crashed.. How would you like to
>> recover your scene?"
>>
>> Eric: "Sure that would be great! Go right ahead, bring it on back!"
>>
>> SoftImage "You'll get nothing and like it!"
>>
>> Meh
>>
>> Eric
>>
>> Freelance 3D and VFX animator
>>
>> http://vimeopro.com/user7979713/3d-work
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Octavian Ureche
>  +40 732 774 313 (GMT+2)
>  Animation & Visual Effects
>   www.okto.ro
>
>
>
> --
> Ronald van Vemden
> ---
> 3D Graphics & Animation
> Cyberfish Laboratories | www.cyberfish.nl
> Toona

Re: Would you like to recover your scene?

[Andy Jones]

I'd love an ascii scene file format as much as the next guy, but
people still lose plenty of unsaved changes with Maya ascii.  Aside
from general hackability, the big advantage of .ma is being able to
fix broken scenes after they've been saved.

On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:48 AM, Toonafish  wrote:
> Word !  That would save sooo many lives.
>
>
> - Ronald
>
>
> On 9/7/2013 18:23, Octavian Ureche wrote:
>
> Native ascii scene file format. Period.
> Though we've been asking for it forever now.
>
> -Octav
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:58 AM, Matt Lind  wrote:
>>
>> My only beef with your plugin is it cannot account for commands which do
>> not log.  There’s a good probability the scene your plugin generates is not
>> an accurate representation of what last state of the scene actually was
>> before it crashed.  Animation edits, for example, do not log at all.  Custom
>> tools flagged to not log, or tools called from self installing commands do
>> not log either.
>>
>>
>>
>> Back in good ol’ days of XSI v6.x when we were treading water to get
>> anything to function in XSI without exploding, I desperately tried to
>> salvage crashed scenes using a similar technique, but because many commands
>> were not logged it was not possible to salvage work or even rebuild it
>> enough to send to Softimage to diagnose the cause of the crash to get it
>> fixed.  Critical missing steps caused the rebuild script to error out, or if
>> it was lucky enough to get to the end without error, the end result was not
>> at all like what it should’ve been.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Matt
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
>> [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Andy Jones
>> Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 8:44 PM
>> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>> Subject: Re: Would you like to recover your scene?
>>
>>
>>
>> I've said this before, but the script log comes really really close to
>> implementing "journalling" which is the thing that made filesystems more
>> robust in the 2000's.  the binary dump emergency save thing is really kind
>> of a silly way to attack the problem of replaying a journal of operations.
>> If Autodesk realized this, they'd prioritize the completeness of command
>> logging and build a simple toolset for replaying the unsaved operation
>> journal.
>>
>>
>>
>> I sent my "repeatHistory" plugin to the beta list a while ago and got
>> crickets.  Maybe I'll try again...
>>
>>
>>
>> All it does is parse the script log for the last open or save operation
>> and them exec the remainder.  It would work even better with an event that
>> sets the script log path on scene open/save.
>>
>>
>> On Friday, September 6, 2013, Jeremie Passerin wrote:
>>
>> Got issue with the auto-recover lately, but the scene was actualy properly
>> saved before crashing. just needed to load it manually.
>>
>> http://xsisupport.com/2011/10/15/crash-recovery-in-softimage/
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6 September 2013 13:18, Eric Thivierge  wrote:
>>
>> You're doing it wrong...
>>
>>
>>
>> On September-06-13 4:15:36 PM, Eric Lampi wrote:
>>
>> SoftImage: "Hey Eric, I see that you crashed.. How would you like to
>> recover your scene?"
>>
>> Eric: "Sure that would be great! Go right ahead, bring it on back!"
>>
>> SoftImage "You'll get nothing and like it!"
>>
>> Meh
>>
>> Eric
>>
>> Freelance 3D and VFX animator
>>
>> http://vimeopro.com/user7979713/3d-work
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Octavian Ureche
>  +40 732 774 313 (GMT+2)
>  Animation & Visual Effects
>   www.okto.ro
>
>
>
> --
> Ronald van Vemden
> ---
> 3D Graphics & Animation
> Cyberfish Laboratories | www.cyberfish.nl
> Toonafish | www.toonafish.nl
> tel. +31(0)20 5289291
> fax  +31(0)20 5289292
> email: ron...@toonafish.nl

Re: Would you like to recover your scene?

[Andy Jones]

Yeah, my point isn't that replaying the commands is currently a viable
alternative for scene recovery (though I would say it's better than
nothing in the cases where the auto-recovery fails).  Just that it
could be a really good solution, if some more effort were put into
ensuring every interaction got logged as a command of some kind.  And
since a lot of people rely on command logging as a way to build
scripts, they'd be killing two birds with one stone.  The plugin is
just a proof of concept.

A journaling approach just seems like a better way to deal with file
recovery than a weird last-second binary dump, especially given that
the dump often contains the thing causing the crash in the first place
and has no way to handle things like power outages, auto-logouts, etc.

There's no reason 3D software can't be as robust with file recovery as
Nuke is.  Even if there are commands that can't be logged for some
reason, you could have a special dirty state that triggers a normal
auto-save in those instances to ensure that the journal-based recovery
can still work properly.

On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 8:58 PM, Matt Lind  wrote:
> My only beef with your plugin is it cannot account for commands which do not
> log.  There’s a good probability the scene your plugin generates is not an
> accurate representation of what last state of the scene actually was before
> it crashed.  Animation edits, for example, do not log at all.  Custom tools
> flagged to not log, or tools called from self installing commands do not log
> either.
>
>
>
> Back in good ol’ days of XSI v6.x when we were treading water to get
> anything to function in XSI without exploding, I desperately tried to
> salvage crashed scenes using a similar technique, but because many commands
> were not logged it was not possible to salvage work or even rebuild it
> enough to send to Softimage to diagnose the cause of the crash to get it
> fixed.  Critical missing steps caused the rebuild script to error out, or if
> it was lucky enough to get to the end without error, the end result was not
> at all like what it should’ve been.
>
>
>
>
>
> Matt
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
> [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Andy Jones
> Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 8:44 PM
> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
> Subject: Re: Would you like to recover your scene?
>
>
>
> I've said this before, but the script log comes really really close to
> implementing "journalling" which is the thing that made filesystems more
> robust in the 2000's.  the binary dump emergency save thing is really kind
> of a silly way to attack the problem of replaying a journal of operations.
> If Autodesk realized this, they'd prioritize the completeness of command
> logging and build a simple toolset for replaying the unsaved operation
> journal.
>
>
>
> I sent my "repeatHistory" plugin to the beta list a while ago and got
> crickets.  Maybe I'll try again...
>
>
>
> All it does is parse the script log for the last open or save operation and
> them exec the remainder.  It would work even better with an event that sets
> the script log path on scene open/save.
>
>
> On Friday, September 6, 2013, Jeremie Passerin wrote:
>
> Got issue with the auto-recover lately, but the scene was actualy properly
> saved before crashing. just needed to load it manually.
>
> http://xsisupport.com/2011/10/15/crash-recovery-in-softimage/
>
>
>
> On 6 September 2013 13:18, Eric Thivierge  wrote:
>
> You're doing it wrong...
>
>
>
> On September-06-13 4:15:36 PM, Eric Lampi wrote:
>
> SoftImage: "Hey Eric, I see that you crashed.. How would you like to
> recover your scene?"
>
> Eric: "Sure that would be great! Go right ahead, bring it on back!"
>
> SoftImage "You'll get nothing and like it!"
>
> Meh
>
> Eric
>
> Freelance 3D and VFX animator
>
> http://vimeopro.com/user7979713/3d-work
>
>
>
>

Re: Would you like to recover your scene?

[Toonafish]

Word !  That would save sooo many lives.


- Ronald

On 9/7/2013 18:23, Octavian Ureche wrote:

Native ascii scene file format. Period.
Though we've been asking for it forever now.

-Octav


On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:58 AM, Matt Lind <mailto:ml...@carbinestudios.com>> wrote:


My only beef with your plugin is it cannot account for commands
which do not log.  There’s a good probability the scene your
plugin generates is not an accurate representation of what last
state of the scene actually was before it crashed.  Animation
edits, for example, do not log at all.  Custom tools flagged to
not log, or tools called from self installing commands do not log
either.

Back in good ol’ days of XSI v6.x when we were treading water to
get anything to function in XSI without exploding, I desperately
tried to salvage crashed scenes using a similar technique, but
because many commands were not logged it was not possible to
salvage work or even rebuild it enough to send to Softimage to
diagnose the cause of the crash to get it fixed.  Critical missing
steps caused the rebuild script to error out, or if it was lucky
enough to get to the end without error, the end result was not at
all like what it should’ve been.

Matt

*From:*softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>] *On Behalf Of
*Andy Jones
*Sent:* Friday, September 06, 2013 8:44 PM
*To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
<mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
    *Subject:* Re: Would you like to recover your scene?

I've said this before, but the script log comes really really
close to implementing "journalling" which is the thing that made
filesystems more robust in the 2000's.  the binary dump emergency
save thing is really kind of a silly way to attack the problem of
replaying a journal of operations.  If Autodesk realized this,
they'd prioritize the completeness of command logging and build a
simple toolset for replaying the unsaved operation journal.

I sent my "repeatHistory" plugin to the beta list a while ago and
got crickets.  Maybe I'll try again...

All it does is parse the script log for the last open or save
operation and them exec the remainder.  It would work even better
with an event that sets the script log path on scene open/save.


On Friday, September 6, 2013, Jeremie Passerin wrote:

Got issue with the auto-recover lately, but the scene was actualy
properly saved before crashing. just needed to load it manually.

http://xsisupport.com/2011/10/15/crash-recovery-in-softimage/

On 6 September 2013 13:18, Eric Thivierge 
wrote:

You're doing it wrong...



On September-06-13 4:15:36 PM, Eric Lampi wrote:

SoftImage: "Hey Eric, I see that you crashed.. How would you like to
recover your scene?"

Eric: "Sure that would be great! Go right ahead, bring it on back!"

SoftImage "You'll get nothing and like it!"

Meh

Eric

Freelance 3D and VFX animator

http://vimeopro.com/user7979713/3d-work




--
Octavian Ureche
 +40 732 774 313 (GMT+2)
 Animation & Visual Effects
www.okto.ro <http://www.okto.ro>



--
Ronald van Vemden
---
3D Graphics & Animation
Cyberfish Laboratories | www.cyberfish.nl
Toonafish | www.toonafish.nl
tel. +31(0)20 5289291
fax  +31(0)20 5289292
email: ron...@toonafish.nl

Re: Would you like to recover your scene?

[Octavian Ureche]

Native ascii scene file format. Period.
Though we've been asking for it forever now.

-Octav


On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:58 AM, Matt Lind  wrote:

> My only beef with your plugin is it cannot account for commands which do
> not log.  There’s a good probability the scene your plugin generates is not
> an accurate representation of what last state of the scene actually was
> before it crashed.  Animation edits, for example, do not log at all.
>  Custom tools flagged to not log, or tools called from self installing
> commands do not log either.
>
> ** **
>
> Back in good ol’ days of XSI v6.x when we were treading water to get
> anything to function in XSI without exploding, I desperately tried to
> salvage crashed scenes using a similar technique, but because many commands
> were not logged it was not possible to salvage work or even rebuild it
> enough to send to Softimage to diagnose the cause of the crash to get it
> fixed.  Critical missing steps caused the rebuild script to error out, or
> if it was lucky enough to get to the end without error, the end result was
> not at all like what it should’ve been.
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> Matt
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Andy Jones
> *Sent:* Friday, September 06, 2013 8:44 PM
> *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
> *Subject:* Re: Would you like to recover your scene?
>
> ** **
>
> I've said this before, but the script log comes really really close to
> implementing "journalling" which is the thing that made filesystems more
> robust in the 2000's.  the binary dump emergency save thing is really kind
> of a silly way to attack the problem of replaying a journal of operations.
>  If Autodesk realized this, they'd prioritize the completeness of command
> logging and build a simple toolset for replaying the unsaved operation
> journal.
>
> ** **
>
> I sent my "repeatHistory" plugin to the beta list a while ago and got
> crickets.  Maybe I'll try again...
>
> ** **
>
> All it does is parse the script log for the last open or save operation
> and them exec the remainder.  It would work even better with an event that
> sets the script log path on scene open/save.
>
>
> On Friday, September 6, 2013, Jeremie Passerin wrote:
>
> Got issue with the auto-recover lately, but the scene was actualy properly
> saved before crashing. just needed to load it manually. 
>
> http://xsisupport.com/2011/10/15/crash-recovery-in-softimage/
>
> ** **
>
> On 6 September 2013 13:18, Eric Thivierge  wrote:*
> ***
>
> You're doing it wrong...
>
>
>
> On September-06-13 4:15:36 PM, Eric Lampi wrote:
>
> SoftImage: "Hey Eric, I see that you crashed.. How would you like to
> recover your scene?"
>
> Eric: "Sure that would be great! Go right ahead, bring it on back!"
>
> SoftImage "You'll get nothing and like it!"
>
> Meh
>
> Eric
>
> Freelance 3D and VFX animator
>
> http://vimeopro.com/user7979713/3d-work
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>



-- 
Octavian Ureche
 +40 732 774 313 (GMT+2)
 Animation & Visual Effects
  www.okto.ro

RE: Would you like to recover your scene?

[Matt Lind]

My only beef with your plugin is it cannot account for commands which do not 
log.  There's a good probability the scene your plugin generates is not an 
accurate representation of what last state of the scene actually was before it 
crashed.  Animation edits, for example, do not log at all.  Custom tools 
flagged to not log, or tools called from self installing commands do not log 
either.

Back in good ol' days of XSI v6.x when we were treading water to get anything 
to function in XSI without exploding, I desperately tried to salvage crashed 
scenes using a similar technique, but because many commands were not logged it 
was not possible to salvage work or even rebuild it enough to send to Softimage 
to diagnose the cause of the crash to get it fixed.  Critical missing steps 
caused the rebuild script to error out, or if it was lucky enough to get to the 
end without error, the end result was not at all like what it should've been.


Matt



From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Andy Jones
Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 8:44 PM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Would you like to recover your scene?

I've said this before, but the script log comes really really close to 
implementing "journalling" which is the thing that made filesystems more robust 
in the 2000's.  the binary dump emergency save thing is really kind of a silly 
way to attack the problem of replaying a journal of operations.  If Autodesk 
realized this, they'd prioritize the completeness of command logging and build 
a simple toolset for replaying the unsaved operation journal.

I sent my "repeatHistory" plugin to the beta list a while ago and got crickets. 
 Maybe I'll try again...

All it does is parse the script log for the last open or save operation and 
them exec the remainder.  It would work even better with an event that sets the 
script log path on scene open/save.

On Friday, September 6, 2013, Jeremie Passerin wrote:
Got issue with the auto-recover lately, but the scene was actualy properly 
saved before crashing. just needed to load it manually.
http://xsisupport.com/2011/10/15/crash-recovery-in-softimage/

On 6 September 2013 13:18, Eric Thivierge 
>
 wrote:
You're doing it wrong...


On September-06-13 4:15:36 PM, Eric Lampi wrote:
SoftImage: "Hey Eric, I see that you crashed.. How would you like to
recover your scene?"

Eric: "Sure that would be great! Go right ahead, bring it on back!"

SoftImage "You'll get nothing and like it!"

Meh

Eric

Freelance 3D and VFX animator

http://vimeopro.com/user7979713/3d-work

Re: Would you like to recover your scene?

[Andy Jones]

I've said this before, but the script log comes really really close to
implementing "journalling" which is the thing that made filesystems more
robust in the 2000's.  the binary dump emergency save thing is really kind
of a silly way to attack the problem of replaying a journal of operations.
 If Autodesk realized this, they'd prioritize the completeness of command
logging and build a simple toolset for replaying the unsaved operation
journal.

I sent my "repeatHistory" plugin to the beta list a while ago and got
crickets.  Maybe I'll try again...

All it does is parse the script log for the last open or save operation and
them exec the remainder.  It would work even better with an event that sets
the script log path on scene open/save.

On Friday, September 6, 2013, Jeremie Passerin wrote:

> Got issue with the auto-recover lately, but the scene was actualy properly
> saved before crashing. just needed to load it manually.
> http://xsisupport.com/2011/10/15/crash-recovery-in-softimage/
>
>
> On 6 September 2013 13:18, Eric Thivierge 
> 
> > wrote:
>
>> You're doing it wrong...
>>
>>
>> On September-06-13 4:15:36 PM, Eric Lampi wrote:
>>
>>> SoftImage: "Hey Eric, I see that you crashed.. How would you like to
>>> recover your scene?"
>>>
>>> Eric: "Sure that would be great! Go right ahead, bring it on back!"
>>>
>>> SoftImage "You'll get nothing and like it!"
>>>
>>> Meh
>>>
>>> Eric
>>>
>>> Freelance 3D and VFX animator
>>>
>>> http://vimeopro.com/**user7979713/3d-work
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: Would you like to recover your scene?

[Eric Thivierge]

You're doing it wrong...

On September-06-13 4:15:36 PM, Eric Lampi wrote:

SoftImage: "Hey Eric, I see that you crashed.. How would you like to
recover your scene?"

Eric: "Sure that would be great! Go right ahead, bring it on back!"

SoftImage "You'll get nothing and like it!"

Meh

Eric

Freelance 3D and VFX animator

http://vimeopro.com/user7979713/3d-work

Re: Would you like to recover your scene?

[Jeremie Passerin]

Got issue with the auto-recover lately, but the scene was actualy properly
saved before crashing. just needed to load it manually.
http://xsisupport.com/2011/10/15/crash-recovery-in-softimage/


On 6 September 2013 13:18, Eric Thivierge  wrote:

> You're doing it wrong...
>
>
> On September-06-13 4:15:36 PM, Eric Lampi wrote:
>
>> SoftImage: "Hey Eric, I see that you crashed.. How would you like to
>> recover your scene?"
>>
>> Eric: "Sure that would be great! Go right ahead, bring it on back!"
>>
>> SoftImage "You'll get nothing and like it!"
>>
>> Meh
>>
>> Eric
>>
>> Freelance 3D and VFX animator
>>
>> http://vimeopro.com/**user7979713/3d-work
>>
>
>