Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Query on tracing townlands and dealing with changed lake levels and new boundaries
I guess the situation is different as the waterway changes in Ireland have not caused disputes. The townland boundaries that are set by the commision have not changed, but in osm we are changing them, and amending the boundaries to suit the map rather than the official boundary, Killian Driscoll Banting Postdoctoral Fellow Département d'anthropologie Université de Montréal umontreal.academia.edu/KillianDriscoll www.lithicsireland.ie ca.linkedin.com/in/killiandriscoll On 19 May 2015 at 08:42, Rory McCann wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi all, > > Just as an aside, this sort of "waterways changing" happens in many > places. Ellis Island in New York (yes that one), is partially in the > US state of New York, and partially in New Jersey, due to land > reclaimation works and a dispute over the original treaty/contract > between them. You can see the border of the original island in the > administrative border on OSM: > http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/40.69880/-74.04098 > > Read more: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellis_Island#State_sovereignty_dispute > > Rory > > On 14/05/15 23:10, Killian Driscoll wrote: > > I've been working on tracing townlands by Lough Conn, Mayo and > > don't know how to deal with some boundaries due to the drop in lake > > levels from drainage works. Here http://osm.org/go/etJ86lqw-?m= you > > can see that I've left out four townlands: Scotchfort, > > Cappanaglogh, Cloonygunnaun, and 'Cappanaglogh (Part Of): you can > > see that the latter is between Cappanaglogh, Cloonygunnaun, and > > with the lake level change and the inclusion of a previous island > > into the townland it's not clear how a new boundary should be > > drawn. > > > > A related issue is whether the boundaries should be redrawn at all > > here, or if the original pre-drainage works lake level boundary > > should be respected (I looked at Lough Gara and see that the > > tracing has followed the new lake level). The GIS townland layer I > > have used before has kept the original townland size and not > > changed the outline to match the 'new' lake level. > > > > I'd appreciate advice on this, > > > > > > Killian Driscoll Banting Postdoctoral Fellow Département > > d'anthropologie Université de Montréal > > > > umontreal.academia.edu/KillianDriscoll www.lithicsireland.ie > > ca.linkedin.com/in/killiandriscoll > > ___ Talk-ie mailing > > list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie > > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v1 > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJVWy/KAAoJEOrWdmeZivv2ha4IAKNJCIhdX6/nYYg4QW08uj6M > Kbi6fuwBqveSjuIbYr7XJmrJ/kmJg1aTTOne0EchySiFfCNvhwFnEhzC7sehw4aV > sEmVwmmgwVWGxo/NCbfJfy8DqXHCnJTj774Ittwdg+svaGjxyrY4qXzPZwvZlqhU > qwl8mYXqdN3YUNXGTEFFT761jtelwi2aYBA8rn9u7m/qt/BGz9zgHXb0heji+Lo2 > dRa4EhDbs5ADaQeTYVFNRfeUxJvYYC0IGzM0gktZOvSb3sM1ctHi05yCGptm7+u7 > 25H0MAA7XiGhU4BlCJvnlYhw7zsDaof090cHQKvrYcXdkt9KQ+HcCOx4fRufJHU= > =+S7B > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > > ___ > Talk-ie mailing list > Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie > ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Query on tracing townlands and dealing with changed lake levels and new boundaries
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi all, Just as an aside, this sort of "waterways changing" happens in many places. Ellis Island in New York (yes that one), is partially in the US state of New York, and partially in New Jersey, due to land reclaimation works and a dispute over the original treaty/contract between them. You can see the border of the original island in the administrative border on OSM: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/40.69880/-74.04098 Read more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellis_Island#State_sovereignty_dispute Rory On 14/05/15 23:10, Killian Driscoll wrote: > I've been working on tracing townlands by Lough Conn, Mayo and > don't know how to deal with some boundaries due to the drop in lake > levels from drainage works. Here http://osm.org/go/etJ86lqw-?m= you > can see that I've left out four townlands: Scotchfort, > Cappanaglogh, Cloonygunnaun, and 'Cappanaglogh (Part Of): you can > see that the latter is between Cappanaglogh, Cloonygunnaun, and > with the lake level change and the inclusion of a previous island > into the townland it's not clear how a new boundary should be > drawn. > > A related issue is whether the boundaries should be redrawn at all > here, or if the original pre-drainage works lake level boundary > should be respected (I looked at Lough Gara and see that the > tracing has followed the new lake level). The GIS townland layer I > have used before has kept the original townland size and not > changed the outline to match the 'new' lake level. > > I'd appreciate advice on this, > > > Killian Driscoll Banting Postdoctoral Fellow Département > d'anthropologie Université de Montréal > > umontreal.academia.edu/KillianDriscoll www.lithicsireland.ie > ca.linkedin.com/in/killiandriscoll > ___ Talk-ie mailing > list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1 iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJVWy/KAAoJEOrWdmeZivv2ha4IAKNJCIhdX6/nYYg4QW08uj6M Kbi6fuwBqveSjuIbYr7XJmrJ/kmJg1aTTOne0EchySiFfCNvhwFnEhzC7sehw4aV sEmVwmmgwVWGxo/NCbfJfy8DqXHCnJTj774Ittwdg+svaGjxyrY4qXzPZwvZlqhU qwl8mYXqdN3YUNXGTEFFT761jtelwi2aYBA8rn9u7m/qt/BGz9zgHXb0heji+Lo2 dRa4EhDbs5ADaQeTYVFNRfeUxJvYYC0IGzM0gktZOvSb3sM1ctHi05yCGptm7+u7 25H0MAA7XiGhU4BlCJvnlYhw7zsDaof090cHQKvrYcXdkt9KQ+HcCOx4fRufJHU= =+S7B -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Query on tracing townlands and dealing with changed lake levels and new boundaries
Hi, I just posted this incorrectly as a private message (first time to use this system) - reposting again here to continue (possibly labour?!) the point. For example, for Lough Gara http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=53.9469&mlon=-8.4311#map=13/53.9469/-8.4311 there are about 150 archaeological monuments around the lake with the townland listed as 'Lough Gara' in Sligo and Roscommon that according to the boundaries redrawn on OSM now appear in 19 different townlands, so there is a conflict between the records of ~150 monuments in the sites and monuments record and how the monuments appear on OSM. Now, of course L Gara is an extreme case, but it does demonstrate the scale of the problem across the island when dealing with 20th century drainage works and redrawing boundaries. The main point is - what is this project for? If it is to trace the boundaries of the administrative boundaries, maybe the actual boundary should be traced, as otherwise we are actually inventing new boundaries which I don't think is our role. And, as pointed out above, the redrawing of boundaries is creating conflicts with other datasets that people are using. Killian Driscoll Banting Postdoctoral Fellow Département d'anthropologie Université de Montréal umontreal.academia.edu/KillianDriscoll www.lithicsireland.ie ca.linkedin.com/in/killiandriscoll On 15 May 2015 at 21:31, Patrick Matthews wrote: > ARP was/is listed for any offshore islands which were above sea level at > high tide as far as I know. It doesn't mean that they were considered > townlands as such (if the name appears in italics on the map, then they > were considered to be extra-territorial. > > One occasional issue with the Bing imagery is where different parts of a > lakeshore were photographed at different times, e.g. the northern part of > Lough Ree was photographed in summer, whereas the southern part was > obviously photographed during the winter floods, leading to an > inconsistency in the shoreline between the two parts. In the northern part > I followed the image while in the southern part I tried to follow the GSGS > map. > > Paddy Matthews. > > On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 11:29 PM, Killian Driscoll < > killiandrisc...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Thanks - Inishfale isn't a townland on the GIS layer I have (maybe an > error > > with that layer?). I wasn't doubting Beggerin was a townland! Just > looking > > for it: I found it on my GIS layer. I can't see the orig OS maps here > > http://maps.openstreetmap.ie/oocmaps.html for the Beggerin Island area. > > Are > > they available? > > > > Killian Driscoll > > Banting Postdoctoral Fellow > > Département d'anthropologie > > Université de Montréal > > > > umontreal.academia.edu/KillianDriscoll > > www.lithicsireland.ie > > ca.linkedin.com/in/killiandriscoll > > > > On 15 May 2015 at 18:25, Donal Diamond wrote: > > > > > You can check the online 1901 townland index (there is also a 1911 > > > supplement at same site) and see Beggerin Island is listed: > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.histpop.org/ohpr/servlet/PageBrowser?path=Browse/Census%20%28by%20date%29/1901/Ireland&active=yes&mno=453&tocstate=expandnew&display=sections&display=tables&display=pagetitles&pageseq=158 > > > > > > Inishfale/Inisfale is probably a townland as ARP and boundary is listed > > on > > > the map sheets - it must be an omission from the townland indexes? > > > > > > D > > > > > > > > > D > > > > > > > > > On 15 May 2015 at 22:44, Killian Driscoll > > > wrote: > > > > > > > I can't see the orig OS maps here > > > > http://maps.openstreetmap.ie/oocmaps.html > > > > for the Beggerin Island area. Are they available? > > > > > > > > Killian Driscoll > > > > Banting Postdoctoral Fellow > > > > Département d'anthropologie > > > > Université de Montréal > > > > > > > > umontreal.academia.edu/KillianDriscoll > > > > www.lithicsireland.ie > > > > ca.linkedin.com/in/killiandriscoll > > > > > > > > On 15 May 2015 at 17:36, Killian Driscoll > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I guess the point is 'Inishfale Island' was never an official > > townland > > > > (at > > > > > least the name doesn't turn up on the online databases, I don't > have > > > > access > > > > > to the print copy): the sites and monuments record uses 'Inisfale > > > Island' > > > > > as the name. Is/was Beggerin Island a townland? > > > > > > > > > > Killian Driscoll > > > > > Banting Postdoctoral Fellow > > > > > Département d'anthropologie > > > > > Université de Montréal > > > > > > > > > > umontreal.academia.edu/KillianDriscoll > > > > > www.lithicsireland.ie > > > > > ca.linkedin.com/in/killiandriscoll > > > > > > > > > > On 15 May 2015 at 17:25, Donal Diamond > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> On 15 May 2015 at 20:49, Killian Driscoll < > > killiandrisc...@gmail.com> > > > > >> wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > >> > At the SW side of Lough Allen the pre-drainage scheme lake level > > > > >> contained > > > > >> > an island called Inishfale Island with the townland of > > De
Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Query on tracing townlands and dealing with changed lake levels and new boundaries
ARP was/is listed for any offshore islands which were above sea level at high tide as far as I know. It doesn't mean that they were considered townlands as such (if the name appears in italics on the map, then they were considered to be extra-territorial. One occasional issue with the Bing imagery is where different parts of a lakeshore were photographed at different times, e.g. the northern part of Lough Ree was photographed in summer, whereas the southern part was obviously photographed during the winter floods, leading to an inconsistency in the shoreline between the two parts. In the northern part I followed the image while in the southern part I tried to follow the GSGS map. Paddy Matthews. On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 11:29 PM, Killian Driscoll < killiandrisc...@gmail.com> wrote: > Thanks - Inishfale isn't a townland on the GIS layer I have (maybe an error > with that layer?). I wasn't doubting Beggerin was a townland! Just looking > for it: I found it on my GIS layer. I can't see the orig OS maps here > http://maps.openstreetmap.ie/oocmaps.html for the Beggerin Island area. > Are > they available? > > Killian Driscoll > Banting Postdoctoral Fellow > Département d'anthropologie > Université de Montréal > > umontreal.academia.edu/KillianDriscoll > www.lithicsireland.ie > ca.linkedin.com/in/killiandriscoll > > On 15 May 2015 at 18:25, Donal Diamond wrote: > > > You can check the online 1901 townland index (there is also a 1911 > > supplement at same site) and see Beggerin Island is listed: > > > > > > > http://www.histpop.org/ohpr/servlet/PageBrowser?path=Browse/Census%20%28by%20date%29/1901/Ireland&active=yes&mno=453&tocstate=expandnew&display=sections&display=tables&display=pagetitles&pageseq=158 > > > > Inishfale/Inisfale is probably a townland as ARP and boundary is listed > on > > the map sheets - it must be an omission from the townland indexes? > > > > D > > > > > > D > > > > > > On 15 May 2015 at 22:44, Killian Driscoll > > wrote: > > > > > I can't see the orig OS maps here > > > http://maps.openstreetmap.ie/oocmaps.html > > > for the Beggerin Island area. Are they available? > > > > > > Killian Driscoll > > > Banting Postdoctoral Fellow > > > Département d'anthropologie > > > Université de Montréal > > > > > > umontreal.academia.edu/KillianDriscoll > > > www.lithicsireland.ie > > > ca.linkedin.com/in/killiandriscoll > > > > > > On 15 May 2015 at 17:36, Killian Driscoll > > > wrote: > > > > > > > I guess the point is 'Inishfale Island' was never an official > townland > > > (at > > > > least the name doesn't turn up on the online databases, I don't have > > > access > > > > to the print copy): the sites and monuments record uses 'Inisfale > > Island' > > > > as the name. Is/was Beggerin Island a townland? > > > > > > > > Killian Driscoll > > > > Banting Postdoctoral Fellow > > > > Département d'anthropologie > > > > Université de Montréal > > > > > > > > umontreal.academia.edu/KillianDriscoll > > > > www.lithicsireland.ie > > > > ca.linkedin.com/in/killiandriscoll > > > > > > > > On 15 May 2015 at 17:25, Donal Diamond > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> On 15 May 2015 at 20:49, Killian Driscoll < > killiandrisc...@gmail.com> > > > >> wrote: > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > At the SW side of Lough Allen the pre-drainage scheme lake level > > > >> contained > > > >> > an island called Inishfale Island with the townland of > Derrynadooey > > to > > > >> the > > > >> > west. This contains a national monument RO002-028 ( > > > >> > http://webgis.archaeology.ie/NationalMonuments/FlexViewer/) which > > is > > > >> > listed > > > >> > as townland: Inishfale Island; you can see that the map the > national > > > >> > monuments is using respects the pre-drainage shoreline townland > > > outline. > > > >> > The traced townland on the osm > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=54.0715&mlon=-8.0517#map=16/54.0715/-8.0517 > > > >> > of Derrnadooey now subsumes Inishfale Island, so the official > sites > > > and > > > >> > monuments record (which was incorrect, as there is no such > townland > > as > > > >> > Insihfale Island) now conflicts with the townland name provided by > > > osm. > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> This is resolvable - the island still exists as a townland. > > > >> > > > >> What you do is: > > > >> > > > >> 1) Create 'Inishfale Island' townland as normal (with way(s) as role > > > >> outer) > > > >> 2) add the way(s) of 'Inishfale Island' to Derrnadooey with role > > inner, > > > >> this creates a hole in Derrnadooey > > > >> > > > >> For example here's Beggerin Island which was an island before > > drainage > > > >> created the Slobs in Wexford > > > >> > > > >> http://www.townlands.ie/wexford/shelmaliere-east/north-west-slob/ > > > >> http://www.townlands.ie/wexford/shelmaliere-east/beggerin-island/ > > > >> > > > >> Hope this helps > > > >> > > > >> D > > > >> ___ > > > >> Talk-ie mailing list > > > >> Talk-ie@ope
Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Query on tracing townlands and dealing with changed lake levels and new boundaries
Thanks - Inishfale isn't a townland on the GIS layer I have (maybe an error with that layer?). I wasn't doubting Beggerin was a townland! Just looking for it: I found it on my GIS layer. I can't see the orig OS maps here http://maps.openstreetmap.ie/oocmaps.html for the Beggerin Island area. Are they available? Killian Driscoll Banting Postdoctoral Fellow Département d'anthropologie Université de Montréal umontreal.academia.edu/KillianDriscoll www.lithicsireland.ie ca.linkedin.com/in/killiandriscoll On 15 May 2015 at 18:25, Donal Diamond wrote: > You can check the online 1901 townland index (there is also a 1911 > supplement at same site) and see Beggerin Island is listed: > > > http://www.histpop.org/ohpr/servlet/PageBrowser?path=Browse/Census%20%28by%20date%29/1901/Ireland&active=yes&mno=453&tocstate=expandnew&display=sections&display=tables&display=pagetitles&pageseq=158 > > Inishfale/Inisfale is probably a townland as ARP and boundary is listed on > the map sheets - it must be an omission from the townland indexes? > > D > > > D > > > On 15 May 2015 at 22:44, Killian Driscoll > wrote: > > > I can't see the orig OS maps here > > http://maps.openstreetmap.ie/oocmaps.html > > for the Beggerin Island area. Are they available? > > > > Killian Driscoll > > Banting Postdoctoral Fellow > > Département d'anthropologie > > Université de Montréal > > > > umontreal.academia.edu/KillianDriscoll > > www.lithicsireland.ie > > ca.linkedin.com/in/killiandriscoll > > > > On 15 May 2015 at 17:36, Killian Driscoll > > wrote: > > > > > I guess the point is 'Inishfale Island' was never an official townland > > (at > > > least the name doesn't turn up on the online databases, I don't have > > access > > > to the print copy): the sites and monuments record uses 'Inisfale > Island' > > > as the name. Is/was Beggerin Island a townland? > > > > > > Killian Driscoll > > > Banting Postdoctoral Fellow > > > Département d'anthropologie > > > Université de Montréal > > > > > > umontreal.academia.edu/KillianDriscoll > > > www.lithicsireland.ie > > > ca.linkedin.com/in/killiandriscoll > > > > > > On 15 May 2015 at 17:25, Donal Diamond > wrote: > > > > > >> On 15 May 2015 at 20:49, Killian Driscoll > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >> > > > >> > At the SW side of Lough Allen the pre-drainage scheme lake level > > >> contained > > >> > an island called Inishfale Island with the townland of Derrynadooey > to > > >> the > > >> > west. This contains a national monument RO002-028 ( > > >> > http://webgis.archaeology.ie/NationalMonuments/FlexViewer/) which > is > > >> > listed > > >> > as townland: Inishfale Island; you can see that the map the national > > >> > monuments is using respects the pre-drainage shoreline townland > > outline. > > >> > The traced townland on the osm > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=54.0715&mlon=-8.0517#map=16/54.0715/-8.0517 > > >> > of Derrnadooey now subsumes Inishfale Island, so the official sites > > and > > >> > monuments record (which was incorrect, as there is no such townland > as > > >> > Insihfale Island) now conflicts with the townland name provided by > > osm. > > >> > > > >> > > >> This is resolvable - the island still exists as a townland. > > >> > > >> What you do is: > > >> > > >> 1) Create 'Inishfale Island' townland as normal (with way(s) as role > > >> outer) > > >> 2) add the way(s) of 'Inishfale Island' to Derrnadooey with role > inner, > > >> this creates a hole in Derrnadooey > > >> > > >> For example here's Beggerin Island which was an island before > drainage > > >> created the Slobs in Wexford > > >> > > >> http://www.townlands.ie/wexford/shelmaliere-east/north-west-slob/ > > >> http://www.townlands.ie/wexford/shelmaliere-east/beggerin-island/ > > >> > > >> Hope this helps > > >> > > >> D > > >> ___ > > >> Talk-ie mailing list > > >> Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org > > >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie > > >> > > > > > > > > ___ > > Talk-ie mailing list > > Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie > > > ___ > Talk-ie mailing list > Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie > ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Query on tracing townlands and dealing with changed lake levels and new boundaries
You can check the online 1901 townland index (there is also a 1911 supplement at same site) and see Beggerin Island is listed: http://www.histpop.org/ohpr/servlet/PageBrowser?path=Browse/Census%20%28by%20date%29/1901/Ireland&active=yes&mno=453&tocstate=expandnew&display=sections&display=tables&display=pagetitles&pageseq=158 Inishfale/Inisfale is probably a townland as ARP and boundary is listed on the map sheets - it must be an omission from the townland indexes? D D On 15 May 2015 at 22:44, Killian Driscoll wrote: > I can't see the orig OS maps here > http://maps.openstreetmap.ie/oocmaps.html > for the Beggerin Island area. Are they available? > > Killian Driscoll > Banting Postdoctoral Fellow > Département d'anthropologie > Université de Montréal > > umontreal.academia.edu/KillianDriscoll > www.lithicsireland.ie > ca.linkedin.com/in/killiandriscoll > > On 15 May 2015 at 17:36, Killian Driscoll > wrote: > > > I guess the point is 'Inishfale Island' was never an official townland > (at > > least the name doesn't turn up on the online databases, I don't have > access > > to the print copy): the sites and monuments record uses 'Inisfale Island' > > as the name. Is/was Beggerin Island a townland? > > > > Killian Driscoll > > Banting Postdoctoral Fellow > > Département d'anthropologie > > Université de Montréal > > > > umontreal.academia.edu/KillianDriscoll > > www.lithicsireland.ie > > ca.linkedin.com/in/killiandriscoll > > > > On 15 May 2015 at 17:25, Donal Diamond wrote: > > > >> On 15 May 2015 at 20:49, Killian Driscoll > >> wrote: > >> > >> > > >> > At the SW side of Lough Allen the pre-drainage scheme lake level > >> contained > >> > an island called Inishfale Island with the townland of Derrynadooey to > >> the > >> > west. This contains a national monument RO002-028 ( > >> > http://webgis.archaeology.ie/NationalMonuments/FlexViewer/) which is > >> > listed > >> > as townland: Inishfale Island; you can see that the map the national > >> > monuments is using respects the pre-drainage shoreline townland > outline. > >> > The traced townland on the osm > >> > > >> > > >> > http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=54.0715&mlon=-8.0517#map=16/54.0715/-8.0517 > >> > of Derrnadooey now subsumes Inishfale Island, so the official sites > and > >> > monuments record (which was incorrect, as there is no such townland as > >> > Insihfale Island) now conflicts with the townland name provided by > osm. > >> > > >> > >> This is resolvable - the island still exists as a townland. > >> > >> What you do is: > >> > >> 1) Create 'Inishfale Island' townland as normal (with way(s) as role > >> outer) > >> 2) add the way(s) of 'Inishfale Island' to Derrnadooey with role inner, > >> this creates a hole in Derrnadooey > >> > >> For example here's Beggerin Island which was an island before drainage > >> created the Slobs in Wexford > >> > >> http://www.townlands.ie/wexford/shelmaliere-east/north-west-slob/ > >> http://www.townlands.ie/wexford/shelmaliere-east/beggerin-island/ > >> > >> Hope this helps > >> > >> D > >> ___ > >> Talk-ie mailing list > >> Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org > >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie > >> > > > > > ___ > Talk-ie mailing list > Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie > ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Query on tracing townlands and dealing with changed lake levels and new boundaries
I can't see the orig OS maps here http://maps.openstreetmap.ie/oocmaps.html for the Beggerin Island area. Are they available? Killian Driscoll Banting Postdoctoral Fellow Département d'anthropologie Université de Montréal umontreal.academia.edu/KillianDriscoll www.lithicsireland.ie ca.linkedin.com/in/killiandriscoll On 15 May 2015 at 17:36, Killian Driscoll wrote: > I guess the point is 'Inishfale Island' was never an official townland (at > least the name doesn't turn up on the online databases, I don't have access > to the print copy): the sites and monuments record uses 'Inisfale Island' > as the name. Is/was Beggerin Island a townland? > > Killian Driscoll > Banting Postdoctoral Fellow > Département d'anthropologie > Université de Montréal > > umontreal.academia.edu/KillianDriscoll > www.lithicsireland.ie > ca.linkedin.com/in/killiandriscoll > > On 15 May 2015 at 17:25, Donal Diamond wrote: > >> On 15 May 2015 at 20:49, Killian Driscoll >> wrote: >> >> > >> > At the SW side of Lough Allen the pre-drainage scheme lake level >> contained >> > an island called Inishfale Island with the townland of Derrynadooey to >> the >> > west. This contains a national monument RO002-028 ( >> > http://webgis.archaeology.ie/NationalMonuments/FlexViewer/) which is >> > listed >> > as townland: Inishfale Island; you can see that the map the national >> > monuments is using respects the pre-drainage shoreline townland outline. >> > The traced townland on the osm >> > >> > >> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=54.0715&mlon=-8.0517#map=16/54.0715/-8.0517 >> > of Derrnadooey now subsumes Inishfale Island, so the official sites and >> > monuments record (which was incorrect, as there is no such townland as >> > Insihfale Island) now conflicts with the townland name provided by osm. >> > >> >> This is resolvable - the island still exists as a townland. >> >> What you do is: >> >> 1) Create 'Inishfale Island' townland as normal (with way(s) as role >> outer) >> 2) add the way(s) of 'Inishfale Island' to Derrnadooey with role inner, >> this creates a hole in Derrnadooey >> >> For example here's Beggerin Island which was an island before drainage >> created the Slobs in Wexford >> >> http://www.townlands.ie/wexford/shelmaliere-east/north-west-slob/ >> http://www.townlands.ie/wexford/shelmaliere-east/beggerin-island/ >> >> Hope this helps >> >> D >> ___ >> Talk-ie mailing list >> Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie >> > > ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Query on tracing townlands and dealing with changed lake levels and new boundaries
I guess the point is 'Inishfale Island' was never an official townland (at least the name doesn't turn up on the online databases, I don't have access to the print copy): the sites and monuments record uses 'Inisfale Island' as the name. Is/was Beggerin Island a townland? Killian Driscoll Banting Postdoctoral Fellow Département d'anthropologie Université de Montréal umontreal.academia.edu/KillianDriscoll www.lithicsireland.ie ca.linkedin.com/in/killiandriscoll On 15 May 2015 at 17:25, Donal Diamond wrote: > On 15 May 2015 at 20:49, Killian Driscoll > wrote: > > > > > At the SW side of Lough Allen the pre-drainage scheme lake level > contained > > an island called Inishfale Island with the townland of Derrynadooey to > the > > west. This contains a national monument RO002-028 ( > > http://webgis.archaeology.ie/NationalMonuments/FlexViewer/) which is > > listed > > as townland: Inishfale Island; you can see that the map the national > > monuments is using respects the pre-drainage shoreline townland outline. > > The traced townland on the osm > > > > > http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=54.0715&mlon=-8.0517#map=16/54.0715/-8.0517 > > of Derrnadooey now subsumes Inishfale Island, so the official sites and > > monuments record (which was incorrect, as there is no such townland as > > Insihfale Island) now conflicts with the townland name provided by osm. > > > > This is resolvable - the island still exists as a townland. > > What you do is: > > 1) Create 'Inishfale Island' townland as normal (with way(s) as role outer) > 2) add the way(s) of 'Inishfale Island' to Derrnadooey with role inner, > this creates a hole in Derrnadooey > > For example here's Beggerin Island which was an island before drainage > created the Slobs in Wexford > > http://www.townlands.ie/wexford/shelmaliere-east/north-west-slob/ > http://www.townlands.ie/wexford/shelmaliere-east/beggerin-island/ > > Hope this helps > > D > ___ > Talk-ie mailing list > Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie > ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Query on tracing townlands and dealing with changed lake levels and new boundaries
On 15 May 2015 at 20:49, Killian Driscoll wrote: > > At the SW side of Lough Allen the pre-drainage scheme lake level contained > an island called Inishfale Island with the townland of Derrynadooey to the > west. This contains a national monument RO002-028 ( > http://webgis.archaeology.ie/NationalMonuments/FlexViewer/) which is > listed > as townland: Inishfale Island; you can see that the map the national > monuments is using respects the pre-drainage shoreline townland outline. > The traced townland on the osm > > http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=54.0715&mlon=-8.0517#map=16/54.0715/-8.0517 > of Derrnadooey now subsumes Inishfale Island, so the official sites and > monuments record (which was incorrect, as there is no such townland as > Insihfale Island) now conflicts with the townland name provided by osm. > This is resolvable - the island still exists as a townland. What you do is: 1) Create 'Inishfale Island' townland as normal (with way(s) as role outer) 2) add the way(s) of 'Inishfale Island' to Derrnadooey with role inner, this creates a hole in Derrnadooey For example here's Beggerin Island which was an island before drainage created the Slobs in Wexford http://www.townlands.ie/wexford/shelmaliere-east/north-west-slob/ http://www.townlands.ie/wexford/shelmaliere-east/beggerin-island/ Hope this helps D ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Query on tracing townlands and dealing with changed lake levels and new boundaries
I read that thread, I figured there was something about it before, just couldn't recall. If I'm honest, I think my opinion has changed from the one I originally stated in that thread on the basis that townland boundaries are changed through statutory instruments only (as far as I am aware). I'd welcome being corrected though especially in the context of what was mentioned in that previous thread with regards to how boundaries are treated where there is coastal erosion etc. It could well be that there's a set way of handling all these variations and we're meeting all of them presently or might need to modify some things a little. Would the smoothened boundary data from the CSO site give any indication? Dave On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 9:45 PM, moltonel 3x Combo wrote: > On 15/05/2015, Donal Diamond wrote: > > There's an earlier thread on topic here where conflicting advice was > given > > ;-) > > > > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ie/2014-October/000741.html > > > > So looks like it is worthwhile opening up the discussion where we can all > > agree on a common approach. > > I don't see many conflicts of opinion in that thread : > * Brian was following the GSGS boundary but started the thread for enquiry > * Conor suggested following the new shoreline instead > * Dacor agreed to follow the new shoreline, based on IRC discussion > * No reply from brian, I assume he followed Conor and Dacor's answers > > As for myself, before reviewing that old thread, the same "follow the > new shoreline" principle was the one that appealed me most (don't like > the idea of land that doesn't belong to a townland).. > > ___ > Talk-ie mailing list > Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie > ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Query on tracing townlands and dealing with changed lake levels and new boundaries
Sorry - that should be: Irish monuments are now appearing in townlands where they are not there officially according to the sites and monuments record. Killian Driscoll Banting Postdoctoral Fellow Département d'anthropologie Université de Montréal umontreal.academia.edu/KillianDriscoll www.lithicsireland.ie ca.linkedin.com/in/killiandriscoll On 15 May 2015 at 16:54, Killian Driscoll wrote: > I guess it comes down to what we are doing here. By changing the boundary > to match the new shoreline we are in effect changing the townland size, and > also creating anomalies whereby e.g. Irish monuments are now appearing in > townlands where there are not there officially according to the sites and > monuments record. > > Killian Driscoll > Banting Postdoctoral Fellow > Département d'anthropologie > Université de Montréal > > umontreal.academia.edu/KillianDriscoll > www.lithicsireland.ie > ca.linkedin.com/in/killiandriscoll > > On 15 May 2015 at 16:45, moltonel 3x Combo wrote: > >> On 15/05/2015, Donal Diamond wrote: >> > There's an earlier thread on topic here where conflicting advice was >> given >> > ;-) >> > >> > >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ie/2014-October/000741.html >> > >> > So looks like it is worthwhile opening up the discussion where we can >> all >> > agree on a common approach. >> >> I don't see many conflicts of opinion in that thread : >> * Brian was following the GSGS boundary but started the thread for enquiry >> * Conor suggested following the new shoreline instead >> * Dacor agreed to follow the new shoreline, based on IRC discussion >> * No reply from brian, I assume he followed Conor and Dacor's answers >> >> As for myself, before reviewing that old thread, the same "follow the >> new shoreline" principle was the one that appealed me most (don't like >> the idea of land that doesn't belong to a townland).. >> >> ___ >> Talk-ie mailing list >> Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie >> > > ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Query on tracing townlands and dealing with changed lake levels and new boundaries
I guess it comes down to what we are doing here. By changing the boundary to match the new shoreline we are in effect changing the townland size, and also creating anomalies whereby e.g. Irish monuments are now appearing in townlands where there are not there officially according to the sites and monuments record. Killian Driscoll Banting Postdoctoral Fellow Département d'anthropologie Université de Montréal umontreal.academia.edu/KillianDriscoll www.lithicsireland.ie ca.linkedin.com/in/killiandriscoll On 15 May 2015 at 16:45, moltonel 3x Combo wrote: > On 15/05/2015, Donal Diamond wrote: > > There's an earlier thread on topic here where conflicting advice was > given > > ;-) > > > > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ie/2014-October/000741.html > > > > So looks like it is worthwhile opening up the discussion where we can all > > agree on a common approach. > > I don't see many conflicts of opinion in that thread : > * Brian was following the GSGS boundary but started the thread for enquiry > * Conor suggested following the new shoreline instead > * Dacor agreed to follow the new shoreline, based on IRC discussion > * No reply from brian, I assume he followed Conor and Dacor's answers > > As for myself, before reviewing that old thread, the same "follow the > new shoreline" principle was the one that appealed me most (don't like > the idea of land that doesn't belong to a townland).. > > ___ > Talk-ie mailing list > Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie > ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Query on tracing townlands and dealing with changed lake levels and new boundaries
On 15/05/2015, Donal Diamond wrote: > There's an earlier thread on topic here where conflicting advice was given > ;-) > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ie/2014-October/000741.html > > So looks like it is worthwhile opening up the discussion where we can all > agree on a common approach. I don't see many conflicts of opinion in that thread : * Brian was following the GSGS boundary but started the thread for enquiry * Conor suggested following the new shoreline instead * Dacor agreed to follow the new shoreline, based on IRC discussion * No reply from brian, I assume he followed Conor and Dacor's answers As for myself, before reviewing that old thread, the same "follow the new shoreline" principle was the one that appealed me most (don't like the idea of land that doesn't belong to a townland).. ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Query on tracing townlands and dealing with changed lake levels and new boundaries
Some of the townlands did have their boundary updated, such as Rock Big in Wicklow (http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/52.7749/-6.1459) , see http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1994/en/si/0333.html . But that seems to be more of an exception than a rule. Personally I would put the boundary on the existing level of the lake but keep Inishfale with as much of the original boundary as possible. Maybe it's something that can be looked at again when all the townlands are mapped? Dafo > From: killiandrisc...@gmail.com > Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 15:49:33 -0400 > To: talk-ie@openstreetmap.org > Subject: Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Query on tracing townlands and dealing with > changed lake levels and new boundaries > > Thanks, I've just read the earlier messages. > > For the most part it's not probematical to use the new lake level, but it > does raise some anomalies. For example: > At the SW side of Lough Allen the pre-drainage scheme lake level contained > an island called Inishfale Island with the townland of Derrynadooey to the > west. This contains a national monument RO002-028 ( > http://webgis.archaeology.ie/NationalMonuments/FlexViewer/) which is listed > as townland: Inishfale Island; you can see that the map the national > monuments is using respects the pre-drainage shoreline townland outline. > The traced townland on the osm > http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=54.0715&mlon=-8.0517#map=16/54.0715/-8.0517 > of Derrnadooey now subsumes Inishfale Island, so the official sites and > monuments record (which was incorrect, as there is no such townland as > Insihfale Island) now conflicts with the townland name provided by osm. > > ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Query on tracing townlands and dealing with changed lake levels and new boundaries
Thanks, I've just read the earlier messages. For the most part it's not probematical to use the new lake level, but it does raise some anomalies. For example: At the SW side of Lough Allen the pre-drainage scheme lake level contained an island called Inishfale Island with the townland of Derrynadooey to the west. This contains a national monument RO002-028 ( http://webgis.archaeology.ie/NationalMonuments/FlexViewer/) which is listed as townland: Inishfale Island; you can see that the map the national monuments is using respects the pre-drainage shoreline townland outline. The traced townland on the osm http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=54.0715&mlon=-8.0517#map=16/54.0715/-8.0517 of Derrnadooey now subsumes Inishfale Island, so the official sites and monuments record (which was incorrect, as there is no such townland as Insihfale Island) now conflicts with the townland name provided by osm. Killian Driscoll Banting Postdoctoral Fellow Département d'anthropologie Université de Montréal umontreal.academia.edu/KillianDriscoll www.lithicsireland.ie ca.linkedin.com/in/killiandriscoll On 15 May 2015 at 14:40, Donal Diamond wrote: > There's an earlier thread on topic here where conflicting advice was given > ;-) > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ie/2014-October/000741.html > > So looks like it is worthwhile opening up the discussion where we can all > agree on a common approach. > > > D > > > On 15 May 2015 at 18:32, Killian Driscoll > wrote: > > > Thanks. "stick with the boundary markings as they exist on the map > sheets": > > if you scan the lake edges of e.g. Lough Neagh, Gara, Derravaragh, Allen > > etc. that have lowered lake levels the traced townland boundaries all now > > match the new lake level, so I think the map sheets have been ignored and > > new boundaries have been drawn. Maybe others who have been tracing lakes > > with dropped lake levels can comment? > > > > Killian Driscoll > > Banting Postdoctoral Fellow > > Département d'anthropologie > > Université de Montréal > > > > umontreal.academia.edu/KillianDriscoll > > www.lithicsireland.ie > > ca.linkedin.com/in/killiandriscoll > > > > On 15 May 2015 at 13:28, Dave Corley wrote: > > > > > Hi Killian, > > > > > > I'm trying to recall what was done in the past for this as I'm sure > it's > > > come up. > > > > > > To the best of my recollection, stick with the boundary markings as > they > > > exist on the map sheets. > > > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > > On 14 May 2015 22:12, "Killian Driscoll" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > I've been working on tracing townlands by Lough Conn, Mayo and don't > > know > > > > how to deal with some boundaries due to the drop in lake levels from > > > > drainage works. Here http://osm.org/go/etJ86lqw-?m= you can see that > > > I've > > > > left out four townlands: Scotchfort, Cappanaglogh, Cloonygunnaun, and > > > > 'Cappanaglogh (Part Of): you can see that the latter is between > > > > Cappanaglogh, Cloonygunnaun, and with the lake level change and the > > > > inclusion of a previous island into the townland it's not clear how a > > new > > > > boundary should be drawn. > > > > > > > > A related issue is whether the boundaries should be redrawn at all > > here, > > > or > > > > if the original pre-drainage works lake level boundary should be > > > respected > > > > (I looked at Lough Gara and see that the tracing has followed the new > > > lake > > > > level). The GIS townland layer I have used before has kept the > original > > > > townland size and not changed the outline to match the 'new' lake > > level. > > > > > > > > I'd appreciate advice on this, > > > > > > > > > > > > Killian Driscoll > > > > Banting Postdoctoral Fellow > > > > Département d'anthropologie > > > > Université de Montréal > > > > > > > > umontreal.academia.edu/KillianDriscoll > > > > www.lithicsireland.ie > > > > ca.linkedin.com/in/killiandriscoll > > > > ___ > > > > Talk-ie mailing list > > > > Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org > > > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie > > > > > > > ___ > > > Talk-ie mailing list > > > Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org > > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie > > > > > ___ > > Talk-ie mailing list > > Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie > > > ___ > Talk-ie mailing list > Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie > ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Query on tracing townlands and dealing with changed lake levels and new boundaries
There's an earlier thread on topic here where conflicting advice was given ;-) https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ie/2014-October/000741.html So looks like it is worthwhile opening up the discussion where we can all agree on a common approach. D On 15 May 2015 at 18:32, Killian Driscoll wrote: > Thanks. "stick with the boundary markings as they exist on the map sheets": > if you scan the lake edges of e.g. Lough Neagh, Gara, Derravaragh, Allen > etc. that have lowered lake levels the traced townland boundaries all now > match the new lake level, so I think the map sheets have been ignored and > new boundaries have been drawn. Maybe others who have been tracing lakes > with dropped lake levels can comment? > > Killian Driscoll > Banting Postdoctoral Fellow > Département d'anthropologie > Université de Montréal > > umontreal.academia.edu/KillianDriscoll > www.lithicsireland.ie > ca.linkedin.com/in/killiandriscoll > > On 15 May 2015 at 13:28, Dave Corley wrote: > > > Hi Killian, > > > > I'm trying to recall what was done in the past for this as I'm sure it's > > come up. > > > > To the best of my recollection, stick with the boundary markings as they > > exist on the map sheets. > > > > Dave > > > > > > On 14 May 2015 22:12, "Killian Driscoll" > > wrote: > > > > > I've been working on tracing townlands by Lough Conn, Mayo and don't > know > > > how to deal with some boundaries due to the drop in lake levels from > > > drainage works. Here http://osm.org/go/etJ86lqw-?m= you can see that > > I've > > > left out four townlands: Scotchfort, Cappanaglogh, Cloonygunnaun, and > > > 'Cappanaglogh (Part Of): you can see that the latter is between > > > Cappanaglogh, Cloonygunnaun, and with the lake level change and the > > > inclusion of a previous island into the townland it's not clear how a > new > > > boundary should be drawn. > > > > > > A related issue is whether the boundaries should be redrawn at all > here, > > or > > > if the original pre-drainage works lake level boundary should be > > respected > > > (I looked at Lough Gara and see that the tracing has followed the new > > lake > > > level). The GIS townland layer I have used before has kept the original > > > townland size and not changed the outline to match the 'new' lake > level. > > > > > > I'd appreciate advice on this, > > > > > > > > > Killian Driscoll > > > Banting Postdoctoral Fellow > > > Département d'anthropologie > > > Université de Montréal > > > > > > umontreal.academia.edu/KillianDriscoll > > > www.lithicsireland.ie > > > ca.linkedin.com/in/killiandriscoll > > > ___ > > > Talk-ie mailing list > > > Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org > > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie > > > > > ___ > > Talk-ie mailing list > > Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie > > > ___ > Talk-ie mailing list > Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie > ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Query on tracing townlands and dealing with changed lake levels and new boundaries
Thanks. "stick with the boundary markings as they exist on the map sheets": if you scan the lake edges of e.g. Lough Neagh, Gara, Derravaragh, Allen etc. that have lowered lake levels the traced townland boundaries all now match the new lake level, so I think the map sheets have been ignored and new boundaries have been drawn. Maybe others who have been tracing lakes with dropped lake levels can comment? Killian Driscoll Banting Postdoctoral Fellow Département d'anthropologie Université de Montréal umontreal.academia.edu/KillianDriscoll www.lithicsireland.ie ca.linkedin.com/in/killiandriscoll On 15 May 2015 at 13:28, Dave Corley wrote: > Hi Killian, > > I'm trying to recall what was done in the past for this as I'm sure it's > come up. > > To the best of my recollection, stick with the boundary markings as they > exist on the map sheets. > > Dave > > > On 14 May 2015 22:12, "Killian Driscoll" > wrote: > > > I've been working on tracing townlands by Lough Conn, Mayo and don't know > > how to deal with some boundaries due to the drop in lake levels from > > drainage works. Here http://osm.org/go/etJ86lqw-?m= you can see that > I've > > left out four townlands: Scotchfort, Cappanaglogh, Cloonygunnaun, and > > 'Cappanaglogh (Part Of): you can see that the latter is between > > Cappanaglogh, Cloonygunnaun, and with the lake level change and the > > inclusion of a previous island into the townland it's not clear how a new > > boundary should be drawn. > > > > A related issue is whether the boundaries should be redrawn at all here, > or > > if the original pre-drainage works lake level boundary should be > respected > > (I looked at Lough Gara and see that the tracing has followed the new > lake > > level). The GIS townland layer I have used before has kept the original > > townland size and not changed the outline to match the 'new' lake level. > > > > I'd appreciate advice on this, > > > > > > Killian Driscoll > > Banting Postdoctoral Fellow > > Département d'anthropologie > > Université de Montréal > > > > umontreal.academia.edu/KillianDriscoll > > www.lithicsireland.ie > > ca.linkedin.com/in/killiandriscoll > > ___ > > Talk-ie mailing list > > Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie > > > ___ > Talk-ie mailing list > Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie > ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Query on tracing townlands and dealing with changed lake levels and new boundaries
Hi Killian, I'm trying to recall what was done in the past for this as I'm sure it's come up. To the best of my recollection, stick with the boundary markings as they exist on the map sheets. Dave On 14 May 2015 22:12, "Killian Driscoll" wrote: > I've been working on tracing townlands by Lough Conn, Mayo and don't know > how to deal with some boundaries due to the drop in lake levels from > drainage works. Here http://osm.org/go/etJ86lqw-?m= you can see that I've > left out four townlands: Scotchfort, Cappanaglogh, Cloonygunnaun, and > 'Cappanaglogh (Part Of): you can see that the latter is between > Cappanaglogh, Cloonygunnaun, and with the lake level change and the > inclusion of a previous island into the townland it's not clear how a new > boundary should be drawn. > > A related issue is whether the boundaries should be redrawn at all here, or > if the original pre-drainage works lake level boundary should be respected > (I looked at Lough Gara and see that the tracing has followed the new lake > level). The GIS townland layer I have used before has kept the original > townland size and not changed the outline to match the 'new' lake level. > > I'd appreciate advice on this, > > > Killian Driscoll > Banting Postdoctoral Fellow > Département d'anthropologie > Université de Montréal > > umontreal.academia.edu/KillianDriscoll > www.lithicsireland.ie > ca.linkedin.com/in/killiandriscoll > ___ > Talk-ie mailing list > Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie > ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
[OSM-talk-ie] Query on tracing townlands and dealing with changed lake levels and new boundaries
I've been working on tracing townlands by Lough Conn, Mayo and don't know how to deal with some boundaries due to the drop in lake levels from drainage works. Here http://osm.org/go/etJ86lqw-?m= you can see that I've left out four townlands: Scotchfort, Cappanaglogh, Cloonygunnaun, and 'Cappanaglogh (Part Of): you can see that the latter is between Cappanaglogh, Cloonygunnaun, and with the lake level change and the inclusion of a previous island into the townland it's not clear how a new boundary should be drawn. A related issue is whether the boundaries should be redrawn at all here, or if the original pre-drainage works lake level boundary should be respected (I looked at Lough Gara and see that the tracing has followed the new lake level). The GIS townland layer I have used before has kept the original townland size and not changed the outline to match the 'new' lake level. I'd appreciate advice on this, Killian Driscoll Banting Postdoctoral Fellow Département d'anthropologie Université de Montréal umontreal.academia.edu/KillianDriscoll www.lithicsireland.ie ca.linkedin.com/in/killiandriscoll ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Query
I'll contribute what I know to this thread - I've had contact with the mapper in relation to other, less detailed, contributions and was reassured that all data was correctly obtained having regard both to permission to use in OSM and to the potentially encumbered nature of any data sources used. The basics were: Data obtained from a local company This company had been engaged to prepare surveys for group water schemes It is common for group water schemes to commission their own surveys, as it can be cheaper than buying data the OSI already has In the case of the data set I was interested in, the line of the NI border had been edited. In this instance, the source was explained as out-of-copyright OSNI maps. All this being so, it looks like the source surveys for his mapping have carefully excluded at least some of the potentially encumbered sources. Furthermore, the mapper is clearly considering what may and may not be included in OSM. Hopefully he will clarify any outstanding concerns people have, as the data are extremely good. Cheers, Dermot -- -- Iren sind menschlich ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Query
I work with similar data in Northern Ireland and it always has copyright conditions attached. Road data and sewage data mentioned in change log is usually based on osi/osni vector maps. Even this type of data collected by a contractor will have copyright restrictions. Thats how it is in NI (a pity as I have access to lot of accurate stuff!), maybe this case is different. It will be interesting to get a response. On 8/4/10, Conor Jones wrote: > Quotes from Letterkenny's change-log: > > #4507235 April 23, 2010 20:39BBOX:-8.21,54.91,-7.70,54.99 ADD:19 > UPD:25 > DEL:28 DCC / NRA Road Classes 2010 > #4507312 April 23, 2010 20:45BBOX:-7.74,54.95,-7.73,54.95 ADD:23 > UPD:4 > DEL:2 DCC / NRA / OSI 2010 Sewage Works Map > #4507508 April 23, 2010 21:03BBOX:-7.75,0.00,0.00,54.97 ADD:26 > UPD:10 > DEL:13 DCC/NRA/OSI Sewage Works 2010 Map Points > #4517654 April 25, 2010 04:45Letterkenny Fire Station and High Road > Realign using 2010 Aerial Topo GIS Chart > #5238568 July 16, 2010 22:44 Added Tobin's Road data for Manor GWS > from > MapInfo > #5238566 July 16, 2010 22:43 Added Tobin's Road data for Manor GWS > from > MapInfo > #5237899 July 16, 2010 21:12 Added Tobin's Road data for Manor GWS > from > MapInfo > > > #5199436 July 12, 2010 14:09 Added houses to Oatfield Terrace from > pictures > > Some pretty privileged data for the top few, could it be infringing > copyright? Although, the last entry's source is as it says... > > Conor > > ___ > Talk-ie mailing list > Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie > -- Will King +44 (0) 777 503 7757 ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Query
Quotes from Letterkenny's change-log: #4507235 April 23, 2010 20:39BBOX:-8.21,54.91,-7.70,54.99 ADD:19 UPD:25 DEL:28 DCC / NRA Road Classes 2010 #4507312 April 23, 2010 20:45BBOX:-7.74,54.95,-7.73,54.95 ADD:23 UPD:4 DEL:2 DCC / NRA / OSI 2010 Sewage Works Map #4507508 April 23, 2010 21:03BBOX:-7.75,0.00,0.00,54.97 ADD:26 UPD:10 DEL:13 DCC/NRA/OSI Sewage Works 2010 Map Points #4517654 April 25, 2010 04:45Letterkenny Fire Station and High Road Realign using 2010 Aerial Topo GIS Chart #5238568 July 16, 2010 22:44 Added Tobin's Road data for Manor GWS from MapInfo #5238566 July 16, 2010 22:43 Added Tobin's Road data for Manor GWS from MapInfo #5237899 July 16, 2010 21:12 Added Tobin's Road data for Manor GWS from MapInfo #5199436 July 12, 2010 14:09 Added houses to Oatfield Terrace from pictures Some pretty privileged data for the top few, could it be infringing copyright? Although, the last entry's source is as it says... Conor ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Query
Hey all, just to introduce myself here, I'm Condi on OSM (Conor), from Donegal and only started mapping about 6 months ago. I noticed that mapping activity around Letterkenny sky-rocketed a month ago from virtually a blank canvas to every detail imaginable - and it looks damn spectacular even if the source is questionable. On a side point, I spent an evening with keepright (http://keepright.ipax.at/) correcting errors around the county of Donegal, but it would take hours to sort errors in Letterkenny alone and the situation has since deteriorated big-time. Has anyone contacted the user yet? Hopefully the source is legitimate and not infringing any copyrights as the work done is a great boost. Regards, Conor ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Query
Hey Paul/Rory/Bartosz, The building detail and general geometry is pretty awesome and not something that can be achieved from the best Yahoo orthophotos available in Ireland. Paul, GPS traces are usefull for general road alignment, and the average from a number of traces gives a good indication of the road position. The misalignment between multiple traces for a single road are evidence of the inherent inaccuracy of consumer GPS devices. These devices are definitely not capable of returing this level of detail. Multipathing is another reason that GPS devices fall over when trying to map buildings/structures. Rory, you are correct, roof access would be a creative solution, but highly unlikely. Put any GPS near a building and it's accuracy suffers badly. In fact, if you have ever seen Ordnance Surveys vector mapping products and the building outlines, I'm certain most of it is derived from high resolution orthophotos. Most of my additions to OSM have been thru "Heads-up" digitising off orthorectified Yahoo images, so I have a fairly good idea of what is reasonably achivable! Just having a look through some of Letterkennys comments with the uploads, it seems road data from Tobins (Consulting Engineers) has been used? From my experience all Consulting Engineers drawings have some copyright which would preclude them from use in OSM. Even taken in charge drawings submitted to County Councils have copyright disclaimers. He may well have received suitable 3rd party permissions, BUT, this should be clearly documented on the Ireland Wiki. This would avoid these kinds of emails and the unfortunate and uncomfortable discussions which follow! Cheers Rory keep us posted. Regards, Paul On 1 August 2010 20:21, Rory McCann wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On 01/08/10 20:11, Paul O'Shea wrote: >> Paul, is there a particular reason why the Letterkenny map appears to >> you to be from imagery? I'm not challenging your interpretation, I'd >> just like to understand the reasoning for future reference in my own >> mapping. > > Building outlines are hard to get from GPS traces (unless you have free > roam on the roof), but easy to get from aerial imagery. Letterkenny > General Hospital has a detailed building outline: > http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=54.95958&lon=-7.73327&zoom=17&layers=M > > > Rory > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ > > iEYEARECAAYFAkxVySQACgkQABn8MFNz+2GSpgCeORHzIEPs1wYafcsdDTpWGFJt > 4okAn1yC4H+9C7q3l04VwmgNHPEx6eQ5 > =sz51 > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > > ___ > Talk-ie mailing list > Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie > > ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Query
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 01/08/10 19:29, Bartosz Fabianowski wrote: > You are right, the detail is amazing. It seems that the editing was all > done by this user. Someone should shoot him a message and ask what his > sources were: > > http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Letterkenny I've sent him a message on OSM. I'll keep ye informed. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkxV004ACgkQABn8MFNz+2EEpwCfSCr/zPLvL5ZpDe7qr876A4YF KZsAnA8y3MHeWDnC1AfTqXJmmLiR8wZX =9EF5 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Query
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 01/08/10 20:11, Paul O'Shea wrote: > Paul, is there a particular reason why the Letterkenny map appears to > you to be from imagery? I'm not challenging your interpretation, I'd > just like to understand the reasoning for future reference in my own > mapping. Building outlines are hard to get from GPS traces (unless you have free roam on the roof), but easy to get from aerial imagery. Letterkenny General Hospital has a detailed building outline: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=54.95958&lon=-7.73327&zoom=17&layers=M Rory -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkxVySQACgkQABn8MFNz+2GSpgCeORHzIEPs1wYafcsdDTpWGFJt 4okAn1yC4H+9C7q3l04VwmgNHPEx6eQ5 =sz51 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Query
Hi Paul, Bartosz Based on the comments on changes since April (and the user name), I'm assuming that the mapper is a local and that the detail is based on GPS tracks over that time rather than from imagery. I'm relatively new to the OSM mapping myself and almost always rely on GPS traces. I normally update the Source as GPS and push up the tracks I use intermittently. Is there an accepted minimum set requirements that people should use for establishing the source of maps uploaded? Paul, is there a particular reason why the Letterkenny map appears to you to be from imagery? I'm not challenging your interpretation, I'd just like to understand the reasoning for future reference in my own mapping. Cheers, Paul On 1 August 2010 19:29, Bartosz Fabianowski wrote: > You are right, the detail is amazing. It seems that the editing was all done > by this user. Someone should shoot him a message and ask what his sources > were: > > http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Letterkenny > > - Bartosz > > ___ > Talk-ie mailing list > Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie > ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Query
You are right, the detail is amazing. It seems that the editing was all done by this user. Someone should shoot him a message and ask what his sources were: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Letterkenny - Bartosz ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
[OSM-talk-ie] Query
Gents, Hi guys, just to introduce myself, my name is Paul and have been a regular contributor to OSM for a few years now, both in Ireland and South Africa. A quick query/point of concern: I was looking around the map of Ireland to get a feel for the progress in the rural areas, when I noticed that Letterkenny has incredibly detailed mapping. It seems that detailed tracing has been done using an imagery source other than Yahoo (there isn't high res imagery available from Yahoo for this area). Is anyone aware of the source and whether it is a copyright infringement? Regards, Paul ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
