[U2] Code for Universe verbs

[Wjhonson]

I think, but I'd like someone to confirm, that those VOC entries which are 
verbs and not obviously catalogued BASIC program, live in some kind of hidden 
place where you can't actually read the code they are using.

This is, VOC items like HASH.HELP SORT.ITEM CREATE.FILE and so on.

What language were these written in?  Do end-users only get compiled versions, 
no source?
I think the answer is probably yes, but I'd just like to make certain.

For that matter, do even software vendors get source code to these routines?  
Or the source only lives at Rocket?
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Re: [U2] PC based UniBasic program editor for 64 bit OS

[Wjhonson]

It should be remarked that this Rocket download also requires Eclipse to be 
loaded.
It's an enormousely huge and fat monster for such a simple task.










-Original Message-
From: Glenn Sallis 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Wed, Aug 31, 2011 11:24 am
Subject: Re: [U2] PC based UniBasic program editor for 64 bit OS


Hi Wyatt
Rocket have supplied Editor software which is downloadable for free from 
heir website called the Basic Developer Toolkit. Which as the name 
ndicates, it offers more than just an editor. You can download this here:
http://www.rocketsoftware.com/u2/downloads/register-basic.html
Another good free Editor that I can recommend is called mvDeveloper from 
rian Leach Consulting. I use this often for UniVerse development due to 
ts being much more lightweight than the BDT. You can download this here:
http://www.brianleach.co.uk/pages/mvdeveloper.htm
When I am doing work for customers with other MultiValue flavours I tend 
o use WED which ships with AccuTerm.
As to whether they are 64 bit compatible I do not know. You will have to 
est and see.
Regards
lenn

m 31.08.2011 20:03, schrieb Buffington, Wyatt:
 Can anyone suggest a good editor for 64 bit OS systems that allows people to 
dit UniBasic programs?
 I was using HyperEdit by Sunergos Software for many years but I have upgraded 
y laptop and it will not run.
 Must have color coded of reserved words if at all possible.

 Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

 Wyatt



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Re: [U2] PC based UniBasic program editor for 64 bit OS

[Wjhonson]

BDT = 280 Megabytes
Really?
To highlight code?


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Re: [U2] PC based UniBasic program editor for 64 bit OS

[Wjhonson]

Disk space not memory.
I don't like helping contribute to code bloat.
Our entire ERP code base does not take up 280 megabytes.
There's no reason in my mind why an IDE should be so enormous regardless.
Any IDE.  Let alone one, whose sole purpose for us (U2) is to highlight code.






-Original Message-
From: Doug Averch 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Wed, Aug 31, 2011 2:46 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] PC based UniBasic program editor for 64 bit OS


Program size means nothing today when I can run Eclipse on a Notebook, or a
ac, or a Windows machine.  Megabytes means nothing in today's world.  We
se to worry that our udt or uv process took a 1/2mb.  We now take upwards
f 10mb.  Buy more memory!
Let's try to show users and clients what we can do with NET clients, Web
nterfaces, iPhone's, Android Phone's and whatever.  That is more impressive
han comparing how much memory Eclipse takes to run.
On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 3:26 PM, Wjhonson  wrote:
>
 BDT = 280 Megabytes
 Really?
 To highlight code?


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Re: [U2] PC based UniBasic program editor for 64 bit OS

[Wjhonson]

I like Brian that you have a Windows installer for your software, which it did 
seemlessly, it was beautiful -- it made me cry.

And I like that it's only 5 Meg.  But my host is a remote system, not local.  
The first thing your software does is complain that it can't find Uniobjects.  
Should it be able to find it over a network connection?  Or does this only work 
with locally installed Universe systems.

Will






-Original Message-
From: Brian Leach 
To: 'U2 Users List' 
Sent: Thu, Sep 1, 2011 6:09 am
Subject: Re: [U2] PC based UniBasic program editor for 64 bit OS


> Let alone one, whose sole purpose for us (U2) is to highlight code.
Well a good program editor - like mvDeveloper (grin) or Doug's U2 Editor -
oes a lot more than just highlight. 
It's about ease of navigation and assisting developers to work faster and
ore efficiently. Doug and I have taken different routes to that - Doug's
ditor is arguably more powerful, mine is arguably lighter - but where they
oth score over general editors is in understanding the code they are
ealing with.
That manifests in all kinds of ways. In mvDeveloper, for example, you can
ight click to open a called subroutine or include file, can jump to a label
n a program, can quickly navigate a program by label (Ctl-U move to
revious label, Ctl-D down to the next label), can comment in and out (even
or PROC), can perform a quick conversion on an internal date and time, can
dit associated multivalues in a grid, pull up keyword help .. 
In short, lots of things that are specific to the platform and to the people
ho use it.
Brian

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Re: [U2] PC based UniBasic program editor for 64 bit OS

[Wjhonson]

Glenn just upgrading from parchment to paper will save the lives of many goats 
and you won't need to spend all those hours scraping the skins to the right 
thinness, before you can use it.

I find also that quills have a nasty tendency to drip "Is that line of code X = 
45? or does it say "No sex after 45?"
The difference could be staggering.







-Original Message-
From: Glenn Sallis 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Thu, Sep 1, 2011 1:52 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] PC based UniBasic program editor for 64 bit OS


Doug,
The notion of lines of code being  a measure of productivity makes me 
neasy.
It is possible for someone to write 500 lines of efficient code using ED 
hich solve the problem at hand, in half the time than another developer 
ho writes 1000 lines of badly structured code to solve the same problem 
sing "GUI Editor X".
So yes, to a certain extent the tool you use can help, but whether money 
s saved or not depends heavily on the mind and skills of the person 
sing the tool.
As for me, I am still writing my code using Quills and Parchment, and 
till have a solution faster than using other mainstream technologies, 
lthough I do plan to upgrade to vi or ED at some point ;-)
Glenn
Am 01.09.2011 22:36, schrieb Doug Averch:
 Hi Mecki:

 Let us say, for example, that you can produce 60 lines of debugged code per
 hour.  You cost the company $60.00 per hour including benefits.  So the cost
 of each line of code is $1.00. You will produce in theory (160/hrs*60)  9600
 lines of code per month for a cost of $9600.00.

 This amazing tool from U2logic comes along and you produce a extra 10 lines
 of code per hour.  You will produce in theory 160/hrs*70) 9670 line of code
 for the same cost of 9600.00 saving the company $70.00.  So the $49.00 you
 pay U2logic, pays for itself in about a month in this scenario. This math
 works if you productivity is only increase by one line per hour.  You only
 have to have 49 programming hours in this Eclipse based tool to pay for it,
 or about a week and two days.

 We use this tool everyday and so does many U2 programmers throughout the
 world.  We know I'm more productive than I was using any of my former tools:
 VI, or EMACS, or Notepad, or AE, or ED.  If you are not a programmer, then
 this, or any tool, as limited value.  But for the rest of us and our boss,
 they want us productive and our code clean.

 After being at Fortune 1000 companies and showing our software applications,
 we would not dare to show anyone how we have to edit program using the
 built-in editors in Unidata and Universe.  Before we developed our Eclipse
 based editor, every CIO or CTO or CEO or just middle management asked us all
 of the time: Is this a DOS tool?  Of course not we would answer and not get
 the sale!

 Regards,
 Doug
 www.u2logic.com/tools.html
 "XLr8Editor for real U2 programmers"

 On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 1:28 AM, Mecki Foerthmann  wrote:

> Doug,
> How does my company save money if they have to buy and pay an annual
> license fee for an editor?
> They might as well ban going to the toilet or making and drinking coffee
> during working hours.
> I probably could be even more productive if the company would pay ME more
> and not you.
>
> I can understand that it must be frustrating for you having spent a lot of
> time developing a piece of software that nobody wants to buy.
> But threatening that we will all loose our jobs and be replaced by 25 year
> old kids with no clue if we don't convince our boss to buy your tool won't
> change that.
> Writing code is time wise the least of my daily tasks.
> And I guess like me most of us here are analysts first and coders last.
>
> Mecki
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Re: [U2] PC based UniBasic program editor for 64 bit OS

[Wjhonson]

Slight amplification.  You need to install UniObjects LOCALLY.
We have uniobjects installed, but it runs on the same network server as 
Universe.
Since I don't type my keystrokes on the network server (but on my own PC 
connecting through an Accuterm telnet window) it can't see that UniObjects is 
running I suppose.




Is it even a possibillity, that the software can say, "Gee is Uniobjects 
running anywhere I can sense"? "Or anywhere you can *tell* me?"

Or is that a silly question?

Funny thing is, we have scripts sitting on server x that are calling uniobjects 
which is running on server y.  So it seems possible





-Original Message-
From: Brian Leach 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:45 am
Subject: Re: [U2] PC based UniBasic program editor for 64 bit OS


Hi Will
You do need to install UniObjects - I don't include it as early on there were 
ome version incompatibilities so it was important to have a version that 
atched the database. Nowadays you can just use the version that comes with the 
ree client package that accompanies the personal editions of U2 - its the unidk 
ibrary which as U2 developers everyone should install anyway 
Brian 
Sent from my ASUS Eee Pad
Wjhonson  wrote:
>
I like Brian that you have a Windows installer for your software, which it did 
eemlessly, it was beautiful -- it made me cry.

And I like that it's only 5 Meg.  But my host is a remote system, not local.  
he first thing your software does is complain that it can't find Uniobjects.  
hould it be able to find it over a network connection?  Or does this only work 
ith locally installed Universe systems.

Will






-Original Message-
From: Brian Leach 
To: 'U2 Users List' 
Sent: Thu, Sep 1, 2011 6:09 am
Subject: Re: [U2] PC based UniBasic program editor for 64 bit OS


> Let alone one, whose sole purpose for us (U2) is to highlight code.
Well a good program editor - like mvDeveloper (grin) or Doug's U2 Editor -
oes a lot more than just highlight. 
It's about ease of navigation and assisting developers to work faster and
ore efficiently. Doug and I have taken different routes to that - Doug's
ditor is arguably more powerful, mine is arguably lighter - but where they
oth score over general editors is in understanding the code they are
ealing with.
That manifests in all kinds of ways. In mvDeveloper, for example, you can
ight click to open a called subroutine or include file, can jump to a label
n a program, can quickly navigate a program by label (Ctl-U move to
revious label, Ctl-D down to the next label), can comment in and out (even
or PROC), can perform a quick conversion on an internal date and time, can
dit associated multivalues in a grid, pull up keyword help .. 
In short, lots of things that are specific to the platform and to the people
ho use it.
Brian

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Re: [U2] DataVu Query [ad]

[Wjhonson]

John don't you use Accuterm?





-Original Message-
From: John Thompson 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:46 am
Subject: Re: [U2] DataVu Query [ad]


For example:
If my goal was to teach a fairly savvy computer user to get data out of U2
nto, lets say Excel... without the user coming to ask me to write some
uery for them...
What would be the pros/cons of doing the ODBC way, vs. doing it the DataVu
ay?
Forgive my ignorance... Does that make sense?
On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 12:41 PM, Daniel McGrath  I'm not entirely sure on what you want here?

 DataVu (the free Query and paid Report & Dashboard products) are querying,
 reporting and dashboard tools whereas ODBC is just an interface.


 -Original Message-
 From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:
 u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of John Thompson
 Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 10:36 AM
 To: U2 Users List
 Subject: Re: [U2] DataVu Query [ad]

 Is there a comparison chart of DataVu vs. ODBC?

 I am planning on investigating both for reporting purposes, but, I was just
 curious if there was anything out there that listed the pros and cons of
 both in a nice little table.


 On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 12:31 PM, Daniel McGrath <
 dmcgr...@rocketsoftware.com
 > wrote:

 > Free as in free beer on the house.
 >
 > Just install and run. There is no need to authorize.
 >
 > Regards,
 > Dan
 >
 > -Original Message-
 > From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:
 > u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of John Thompson
 > Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 10:20 AM
 > To: U2 Users List
 > Subject: Re: [U2] DataVu Query [ad]
 >
 > Is this a licensed product?  Or does it come with the U2 licenses we
 > have purchased?
 >
 > On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 12:10 PM, Daniel McGrath <
 > dmcgr...@rocketsoftware.com
 > > wrote:
 >
 > > Since DataVu Query recently came up here, I thought I should let you
 > > all know we have just released a new version of the free DataVu
 > > Query tool
 > > (v2.0.1)
 > >
 > > We have introduced new capabilities to combine your queries and
 results.
 > >  You can filter and quickly create charts with just a couple of clicks.
 > > Also, a new quick start wizard guides you through the steps to
 > > connect to your U2 data so you can quickly get up and running with
 > > U2 DataVu Query. You can download this from our downloads page.
 > >
 > > Don't forget we have videos available on U2DevZone on the 'Accelerate'
 > > page.
 > >
 > > Regards,
 > >
 > > Dan McGrath
 > > U2 Product Manager
 > > Rocket Software
 > > Web: www.rocketsoftware.com/u2
 > >
 > > ___
 > > U2-Users mailing list
 > > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org
 > > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
 > >
 >
 >
 >
 > --
 > John Thompson
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 > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
 >



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Re: [U2] DataVu Query [ad]

[Wjhonson]

Give us the direct link to the download page





-Original Message-
From: Daniel McGrath 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:46 am
Subject: Re: [U2] DataVu Query [ad]


Can you let me know which page so I can address it?
I just successfully started downloading, so I'm not sure where to look.
Thanks,
an
-Original Message-
rom: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org 
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] 
n Behalf Of Wjhonson
ent: Friday, September 02, 2011 10:43 AM
o: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
ubject: Re: [U2] DataVu Query [ad]
We’re sorry, but that page doesn’t exist… 

Ha!  So Rocket is looking to hire a website developer?


-Original Message-
rom: Daniel McGrath 
o: U2 Users List 
ent: Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:31 am
ubject: Re: [U2] DataVu Query [ad]

ree as in free beer on the house.
ust install and run. There is no need to authorize.
egards,
n
Original Message-
om: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org 
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org]
 Behalf Of John Thompson
nt: Friday, September 02, 2011 10:20 AM
: U2 Users List
bject: Re: [U2] DataVu Query [ad]
s this a licensed product?  Or does it come with the U2 licenses we have 
rchased?
n Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 12:10 PM, Daniel McGrath http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users

-
hn Thompson
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Re: [U2] DataVu Query [ad]

[Wjhonson]

We’re sorry, but that page doesn’t exist… 



Ha!  So Rocket is looking to hire a website developer?





-Original Message-
From: Daniel McGrath 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:31 am
Subject: Re: [U2] DataVu Query [ad]


Free as in free beer on the house.
Just install and run. There is no need to authorize.
Regards,
an
-Original Message-
rom: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org 
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] 
n Behalf Of John Thompson
ent: Friday, September 02, 2011 10:20 AM
o: U2 Users List
ubject: Re: [U2] DataVu Query [ad]
Is this a licensed product?  Or does it come with the U2 licenses we have 
urchased?
On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 12:10 PM, Daniel McGrath  Since DataVu Query recently came up here, I thought I should let you 
 all know we have just released a new version of the free DataVu Query 
 tool
 (v2.0.1)

 We have introduced new capabilities to combine your queries and results.
  You can filter and quickly create charts with just a couple of clicks.
 Also, a new quick start wizard guides you through the steps to connect 
 to your U2 data so you can quickly get up and running with U2 DataVu 
 Query. You can download this from our downloads page.

 Don't forget we have videos available on U2DevZone on the 'Accelerate'
 page.

 Regards,

 Dan McGrath
 U2 Product Manager
 Rocket Software
 Web: www.rocketsoftware.com/u2

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Re: [U2] DataVu Query [ad]

[Wjhonson]

I loaded to the Pickwiki, code which will output the first 10 VOC entries as an 
HTML table and then launch it with Accuterm into whatever browser you have.

I don't know anything about FTWIZ, looks like a file transfer tool, doesn't 
seem closely related to me.
You can use the core concepts of my code to also create csv or tab delimited 
files which should open in Excel as well btw.

You can also add the code snippets or a subroutine to any report you have to 
make it pop up in Excel or as an HTML table.






-Original Message-
From: John Thompson 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:55 am
Subject: Re: [U2] DataVu Query [ad]


Yes... but, Accuterm FTWIZ can be quite slow when pulling a lot of data.
Although, I have not had much time to mess with the New Version of Accuterm
, so it may have improved.
Also the last time I checked, its difficult for FTWIZ to get data from
ultiple files, unless you want to spend your life doing translates.
My understanding was that the ODBC for Universe would actually normalize the
ata for you if you had a new set of clean dictionaries setup properly in a
lean account.
Maybe this is what I should do for the Accuterm stuff too Like I said,
ts on the project list, but, I have not got that far in the heap yet... Any
dvice appreciated.
On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 12:47 PM, Wjhonson  wrote:
> John don't you use Accuterm?





 -Original Message-
 From: John Thompson 
 To: U2 Users List 
 Sent: Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:46 am
 Subject: Re: [U2] DataVu Query [ad]


 For example:
 If my goal was to teach a fairly savvy computer user to get data out of U2
 nto, lets say Excel... without the user coming to ask me to write some
 uery for them...
 What would be the pros/cons of doing the ODBC way, vs. doing it the DataVu
 ay?
 Forgive my ignorance... Does that make sense?
 On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 12:41 PM, Daniel McGrath <
 dmcgr...@rocketsoftware.com
  wrote:
 > I'm not entirely sure on what you want here?

  DataVu (the free Query and paid Report & Dashboard products) are querying,
  reporting and dashboard tools whereas ODBC is just an interface.


  -Original Message-
  From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:
  u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of John Thompson
  Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 10:36 AM
  To: U2 Users List
  Subject: Re: [U2] DataVu Query [ad]

  Is there a comparison chart of DataVu vs. ODBC?

  I am planning on investigating both for reporting purposes, but, I was
 just
  curious if there was anything out there that listed the pros and cons of
  both in a nice little table.


  On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 12:31 PM, Daniel McGrath <
  dmcgr...@rocketsoftware.com
  > wrote:

  > Free as in free beer on the house.
  >
  > Just install and run. There is no need to authorize.
  >
  > Regards,
  > Dan
  >
  > -Original Message-
  > From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:
  > u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of John Thompson
  > Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 10:20 AM
  > To: U2 Users List
  > Subject: Re: [U2] DataVu Query [ad]
  >
  > Is this a licensed product?  Or does it come with the U2 licenses we
  > have purchased?
  >
  > On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 12:10 PM, Daniel McGrath <
  > dmcgr...@rocketsoftware.com
  > > wrote:
  >
  > > Since DataVu Query recently came up here, I thought I should let you
  > > all know we have just released a new version of the free DataVu
  > > Query tool
  > > (v2.0.1)
  > >
  > > We have introduced new capabilities to combine your queries and
  results.
  > >  You can filter and quickly create charts with just a couple of
 clicks.
  > > Also, a new quick start wizard guides you through the steps to
  > > connect to your U2 data so you can quickly get up and running with
  > > U2 DataVu Query. You can download this from our downloads page.
  > >
  > > Don't forget we have videos available on U2DevZone on the 'Accelerate'
  > > page.
  > >
  > > Regards,
  > >
  > > Dan McGrath
  > > U2 Product Manager
  > > Rocket Software
  > > Web: www.rocketsoftware.com/u2
  > >
  > > ___
  > > U2-Users mailing list
  > > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org
  > > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
  > >
  >
  >
  >
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  >



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Re: [U2] PC based UniBasic program editor for 64 bit OS

[Wjhonson]

Well then could MVDeveloper be installed on the same server as Universe and 
just launched via a shortcut link.









-Original Message-
From: Glenn Sallis 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:59 am
Subject: Re: [U2] PC based UniBasic program editor for 64 bit OS


Will,
In my original email, I already stated:
"It sounds to me like you are missing the UODOTNET library, which needs 
o be on *your local machine* in order to expedite the connection to the 
erver."
Here, your local machine = the machine you have installed mvDeveloper 
n, to which the keyboard is connected on  which you are typing.
Glenn
Am 02.09.2011 18:41, schrieb Wjhonson:
 Slight amplification.  You need to install UniObjects LOCALLY.
 We have uniobjects installed, but it runs on the same network server as 
niverse.
 Since I don't type my keystrokes on the network server (but on my own PC 
onnecting through an Accuterm telnet window) it can't see that UniObjects is 
unning I suppose.




 Is it even a possibillity, that the software can say, "Gee is Uniobjects 
unning anywhere I can sense"? "Or anywhere you can *tell* me?"

 Or is that a silly question?

 Funny thing is, we have scripts sitting on server x that are calling 
niobjects which is running on server y.  So it seems possible





 -Original Message-
 From: Brian Leach
 To: U2 Users List
 Sent: Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:45 am
 Subject: Re: [U2] PC based UniBasic program editor for 64 bit OS


 Hi Will
 You do need to install UniObjects - I don't include it as early on there were
 ome version incompatibilities so it was important to have a version that
 atched the database. Nowadays you can just use the version that comes with the
 ree client package that accompanies the personal editions of U2 - its the 
nidk
 ibrary which as U2 developers everyone should install anyway
 Brian
 Sent from my ASUS Eee Pad
 Wjhonson  wrote:
 I like Brian that you have a Windows installer for your software, which it did
 eemlessly, it was beautiful -- it made me cry.

 And I like that it's only 5 Meg.  But my host is a remote system, not local.
 he first thing your software does is complain that it can't find Uniobjects.
 hould it be able to find it over a network connection?  Or does this only work
 ith locally installed Universe systems.

 Will






 -Original Message-
 From: Brian Leach
 To: 'U2 Users List'
 Sent: Thu, Sep 1, 2011 6:09 am
 Subject: Re: [U2] PC based UniBasic program editor for 64 bit OS


> Let alone one, whose sole purpose for us (U2) is to highlight code.
 Well a good program editor - like mvDeveloper (grin) or Doug's U2 Editor -
 oes a lot more than just highlight.
 It's about ease of navigation and assisting developers to work faster and
 ore efficiently. Doug and I have taken different routes to that - Doug's
 ditor is arguably more powerful, mine is arguably lighter - but where they
 oth score over general editors is in understanding the code they are
 ealing with.
 That manifests in all kinds of ways. In mvDeveloper, for example, you can
 ight click to open a called subroutine or include file, can jump to a label
 n a program, can quickly navigate a program by label (Ctl-U move to
 revious label, Ctl-D down to the next label), can comment in and out (even
 or PROC), can perform a quick conversion on an internal date and time, can
 dit associated multivalues in a grid, pull up keyword help ..
 In short, lots of things that are specific to the platform and to the people
 ho use it.
 Brian

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Re: [U2] DataVu Query [ad]

[Wjhonson]

This requires a repository?  It doesn't query directly into the Universe 
database itself?









-Original Message-
From: Daniel McGrath 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:09 am
Subject: Re: [U2] DataVu Query [ad]


I think you will find savvy computer users will find this fairly easy to use. 
our best bet would be to check out 'Building Queries'  video on U2 Dev Zone
https://u2devzone.rocketsoftware.com/accelerate/resources/videos/u2datavu/u2-datavu-part-4-query-building/view

egards,
an
-Original Message-
rom: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org 
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] 
n Behalf Of John Thompson
ent: Friday, September 02, 2011 10:46 AM
o: U2 Users List
ubject: Re: [U2] DataVu Query [ad]
For example:
If my goal was to teach a fairly savvy computer user to get data out of U2 
into, 
ets say Excel... without the user coming to ask me to write some query for 
hem...
What would be the pros/cons of doing the ODBC way, vs. doing it the DataVu way?
Forgive my ignorance... Does that make sense?
On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 12:41 PM, Daniel McGrath  I'm not entirely sure on what you want here?

 DataVu (the free Query and paid Report & Dashboard products) are 
 querying, reporting and dashboard tools whereas ODBC is just an interface.


 -Original Message-
 From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:
 u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of John Thompson
 Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 10:36 AM
 To: U2 Users List
 Subject: Re: [U2] DataVu Query [ad]

 Is there a comparison chart of DataVu vs. ODBC?

 I am planning on investigating both for reporting purposes, but, I was 
 just curious if there was anything out there that listed the pros and 
 cons of both in a nice little table.


 On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 12:31 PM, Daniel McGrath < 
 dmcgr...@rocketsoftware.com
 > wrote:

 > Free as in free beer on the house.
 >
 > Just install and run. There is no need to authorize.
 >
 > Regards,
 > Dan
 >
 > -Original Message-
 > From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:
 > u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of John Thompson
 > Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 10:20 AM
 > To: U2 Users List
 > Subject: Re: [U2] DataVu Query [ad]
 >
 > Is this a licensed product?  Or does it come with the U2 licenses we 
 > have purchased?
 >
 > On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 12:10 PM, Daniel McGrath < 
 > dmcgr...@rocketsoftware.com
 > > wrote:
 >
 > > Since DataVu Query recently came up here, I thought I should let 
 > > you all know we have just released a new version of the free 
 > > DataVu Query tool
 > > (v2.0.1)
 > >
 > > We have introduced new capabilities to combine your queries and
 results.
 > >  You can filter and quickly create charts with just a couple of clicks.
 > > Also, a new quick start wizard guides you through the steps to 
 > > connect to your U2 data so you can quickly get up and running with
 > > U2 DataVu Query. You can download this from our downloads page.
 > >
 > > Don't forget we have videos available on U2DevZone on the 'Accelerate'
 > > page.
 > >
 > > Regards,
 > >
 > > Dan McGrath
 > > U2 Product Manager
 > > Rocket Software
 > > Web: www.rocketsoftware.com/u2
 > >
 > > ___
 > > U2-Users mailing list
 > > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org
 > > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
 > >
 >
 >
 >
 > --
 > John Thompson
 > ___
 > U2-Users mailing list
 > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org
 > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
 > ___
 > U2-Users mailing list
 > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org
 > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
 >



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Re: [U2] DataVu Query [ad]

[Wjhonson]

Wow.  That's a dog who is not going to run.





"Setting Up a UniData Account
n order to access your files in U2 Data Vu, you need to properly set up 
our UniData account.  To do this you must add your account to the 
D.ACCOUNT file, use the CONVERT.SQL command to make your files SQL 
ompliant, and then grant appropriate privileges for access to the files."







-Original Message-
From: Bill Haskett 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:36 am
Subject: Re: [U2] DataVu Query [ad]


Steve:
Sorry, but I don't think that's right.  I remember getting excited and 
ownloading the product.  Then when I was reviewing the installation 
nstructions I seemed to run into a myriad of issues I'd have to 
vercome in development, let alone in production.
For instance, according to the Quick Start Guide:
Setting Up a UniData Account
n order to access your files in U2 Data Vu, you need to properly set up 
our UniData account.  To do this you must add your account to the 
D.ACCOUNT file, use the CONVERT.SQL command to make your files SQL 
ompliant, and then grant appropriate privileges for access to the files.
This isn't exactly pain free, nor anywhere as easy as Mits or Informer 
eemed to be (I could install and see my files and create a query and 
et a spreadsheet through a web browser in our Windows environment).  I 
ay just be the paradigm I was having problems with, but DataVu didn't 
eem either easy to install, configure, use, or put into production.
This doesn't mean I'm saying your wrong, or any such thing.  It's just 
hat the product looked a lot more complicated and difficult than other 
ptions I've been looking into.
Bill

 Original Message -
From:* slestak...@gmail.com
To:* U2 Users List 
Date:* 9/2/2011 10:14 AM
Subject:* Re: [U2] DataVu Query [ad]
 On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 1:04 PM, Bill Haskett  wrote:
> Steve:
>
> Really?  I was looking at DataVu for UniData and I understood that I did
> need to SQL'ize all my data.  So, if I hosted a number of accounts I'd have
> to go through the entire process of figuring how to duplicate the accounts
> for SQL file access, keep them all straight, and fight with all that this
> entails.
>
> Are you sure I misunderstood this?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill Haskett
>
> 
> - Original Message -
> *From:* slestak...@gmail.com
> *To:* U2 Users List
> *Date:* 9/2/2011 9:47 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [U2] DataVu Query [ad]
>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 12:45 PM, John Thompson
>>   wrote:
>>> For example:
>>>
>>> If my goal was to teach a fairly savvy computer user to get data out of
>>> U2
>>> into, lets say Excel... without the user coming to ask me to write some
>>> query for them...
>>>
>>> What would be the pros/cons of doing the ODBC way, vs. doing it the
>>> DataVu
>>> way?
>>>
>>> Forgive my ignorance... Does that make sense?
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 12:41 PM, Daniel
>>> McGrath>>> wrote:
 I'm not entirely sure on what you want here?

 DataVu (the free Query and paid Report&Dashboard products) are
 querying,
 reporting and dashboard tools whereas ODBC is just an interface.


 -Original Message-
 From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:
 u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of John Thompson
 Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 10:36 AM
 To: U2 Users List
 Subject: Re: [U2] DataVu Query [ad]

 Is there a comparison chart of DataVu vs. ODBC?

 I am planning on investigating both for reporting purposes, but, I was
 just
 curious if there was anything out there that listed the pros and cons of
 both in a nice little table.


 On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 12:31 PM, Daniel McGrath<
 dmcgr...@rocketsoftware.com
> wrote:
> Free as in free beer on the house.
>
> Just install and run. There is no need to authorize.
>
> Regards,
> Dan
>
> -Original Message-
> From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:
> u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of John Thompson
> Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 10:20 AM
> To: U2 Users List
> Subject: Re: [U2] DataVu Query [ad]
>
> Is this a licensed product?  Or does it come with the U2 licenses we
> have purchased?
>
> On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 12:10 PM, Daniel McGrath<
> dmcgr...@rocketsoftware.com
>> wrote:
>> Since DataVu Query recently came up here, I thought I should let you
>> all know we have just released a new version of the free DataVu
>> Query tool
>> (v2.0.1)
>>
>> We have introduced new capabilities to combine your queries and
 results.
>>   You can filter and quickly create charts with just a couple of
>> clicks.
>> Also, a new quick start wizard guides you through the steps to
>> connect to your U2 data so you can 

Re: [U2] List Voc Like ....

[Wjhonson]

LIST VOC LIKE ...'DOG'
fails, listing everything

LIST VOC LIKE '...DOG'
passes, listing just those items ending in DOG


The online HELP documentation gives no examples of using the quotes, they just 
state it without an example.
Or rather the example is just the 'string' by itself without it's use in 
context of the ...


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Re: [U2] List Voc Like ....

[Wjhonson]

I want ends with so you don't use the trailing ellipses just ...DOG
The LIKE can take single or double quotes without care (that's in the 
documentation)
You missed the point of my message which was that putting the ellipses outside 
the quotes makes the statement fail.
That's why it fails, not because of the quote type.
Try it with double quotes.  I bet it still fails if the ellipses is outside the 
quotes.






-Original Message-
From: Jeff Schasny 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:28 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] List Voc Like 


LIST VOC WITH @ID LIKE ...DOG...
no quotes, especially not single quotes which woulf indicate an explicit 
ecord ID
Wjhonson wrote:
 LIST VOC LIKE ...'DOG'
 fails, listing everything

 LIST VOC LIKE '...DOG'
 passes, listing just those items ending in DOG


 The online HELP documentation gives no examples of using the quotes, they just 
tate it without an example.
 Or rather the example is just the 'string' by itself without it's use in 
ontext of the ...


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-- 
---
eff Schasny - Denver, Co, USA
schasny at gmail dot com
---
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Re: [U2] DataVu Query [ad]

[Wjhonson]

After 45 minutes of trying different things I finally got to step 1.









-Original Message-
From: Daniel McGrath 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Fri, Sep 2, 2011 1:25 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] DataVu Query [ad]


Just to clarify, this is only an issue for UniData (because by default it 
denies 
QL access, until you update the privileges). In UniVerse it is as simple as 
ointing it to your host, typing in your credentials and selecting the account.
In fact, I just did it on my machine with the SBDEMO account in under 5 minutes.
It is also correct this is a benefit of the Rocket Acquisition. You will find 
hat going forward will be able to increasingly leverage the other R&D assets of 
he rest of Rocket to bring new products and tighter integrations to the MV 
orld then we have previously.
Regards,
an
-Original Message-
rom: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org 
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] 
n Behalf Of Steve Romanow
ent: Friday, September 02, 2011 12:42 PM
o: U2 Users List
ubject: Re: [U2] DataVu Query [ad]
Bill,
I think you are correct.  I was hoping and praying for straight UoJ connection 
o data, not shoehorned SQL.
Steve
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Re: [U2] DataVu Query [ad]

[Wjhonson]

Uh yeah.
Ok here's one.  Instead of "error BD10456342!!.blah gobbly gook" maybe 
something a human can understand :)

Having, as I have, a brilliant mind, it only took me five minutes or so to 
figure out that possibly, it can't figure out what files are in my account 
because it's seeing a menu pop up when it logs in as me, on login,  and has no 
idea what to do with THAT, so it barfs all over my backseat.  Very rude!

Instead of an actual application account, I changed it to point at UV which has 
no menu and voila up comes the list of files.
So I'm at step 1B now.



-Original Message-
From: Daniel McGrath 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Fri, Sep 2, 2011 1:41 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] DataVu Query [ad]


If you can think of any instructions that made it hard to work, instructions 
hat are missing or anything else that will make it easier for first time users 
eg, Gotcha's that might affect some people we have missed), let us know. The 
est way for us to make it better is if people give us some constructive 
eedback (u2as...@rs.com) to work with :)
As a side note, the DataVu 2.0 link on the front page now works (thanks Will & 
teve)
Regards,
an
-Original Message-
rom: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org 
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] 
n Behalf Of Wjhonson
ent: Friday, September 02, 2011 2:36 PM
o: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
ubject: Re: [U2] DataVu Query [ad]
After 45 minutes of trying different things I finally got to step 1.




-Original Message-
rom: Daniel McGrath 
o: U2 Users List 
ent: Fri, Sep 2, 2011 1:25 pm
ubject: Re: [U2] DataVu Query [ad]

ust to clarify, this is only an issue for UniData (because by default it denies 
L access, until you update the privileges). In UniVerse it is as simple as 
inting it to your host, typing in your credentials and selecting the account.
n fact, I just did it on my machine with the SBDEMO account in under 5 minutes.
t is also correct this is a benefit of the Rocket Acquisition. You will find 
at going forward will be able to increasingly leverage the other R&D assets of 
e rest of Rocket to bring new products and tighter integrations to the MV orld 
hen we have previously.
egards,
n
Original Message-
om: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org 
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org]
 Behalf Of Steve Romanow
nt: Friday, September 02, 2011 12:42 PM
: U2 Users List
bject: Re: [U2] DataVu Query [ad]
ill,
 think you are correct.  I was hoping and praying for straight UoJ connection o 
ata, not shoehorned SQL.
teve
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Re: [U2] DataVu Query [ad]

[Wjhonson]

I also have a weirdness with that server name.
Either it wanted the \\ in front or it didn't I can't remember which.
I do remember fiddling with that field.
Too bad it can't query "What drives are you attached to anyway?" and give me 
those as options :)











-Original Message-
From: Mecki Foerthmann 
To: u2-users 
Sent: Tue, Sep 6, 2011 4:03 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] DataVu Query [ad]


David,
I bet you are right, but what users want is to be able to install 
oftware like that without having to search the documentation for hours.
 don't mind if I have to search for and download a JDBC driver from the 
et to connect to SQL Server, DB2 or Oracle data sources but I expect a 
ocket product to work straight away for U2.
 get a screen that asks me for the UD server name and even though that 
ame one works for SB client, VSG, UniAdmin and tools like mvDeveloper 
t won't connect in DataVu.
ll I found so far is that I need this driver (hell knows where to get 
t from) and a file called bi.jdbc,drivers (or something like that) that 
eeds to be created somewhere by the administrator.
ell, I am the administrator and I haven't got a clue how to do that!

n 06/09/2011 23:22, David Jordan wrote:
 Mecki
 You do not need a JDBC driver, it uses uniobjects.   There is a video showing 
ow to install and read the documentation.   The installation is not intuitive, 
ut it is not hard.   I made the mistake first not to read the documentation 
hich takes you through step by step.

 Regards
 David Jordan

 -Original Message-
 From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org 
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] 
n Behalf Of Gerd Forthmann
 Sent: Wednesday, 7 September 2011 1:00 AM
 To: U2 Users List
 Subject: Re: [U2] DataVu Query [ad]

 Well, I can't even connect to the host. A get an error message U2DB1004.
 I reckon you guys really need to make this a lot easier if you want people tto 
se this and buy the other modules.
 In the documentation it says something about a JDBC driver that needs to be 
nstalled but isn't included in the package and some obscure file that needs to 
e created somewhere and contains connection data but to me this is just Greek 
nd doesn't mean anything.
 Other products like mvDeveloper just work without having to find a driver 
omewhere and create any files by hand.
 I bet you can do better than that.

 Mecki
  Original-Nachricht 
> Datum: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 17:20:14 +
> Von: Daniel McGrath
> An: U2 Users List
> Betreff: Re: [U2] DataVu Query [ad]
> Okay, so once you download DV Query there is a quick start guide that
> will tell you what you need to do.
>
> You need to run CONVERT.SQL on your files so that it has access to
> them, but you don't need to worry about creating the schemas with VSG
> or using HS.ADMIN like you would otherwise. Actually, there is a way
> to just use UPDATE.SQL.PRIVILEGES to get around this
> (https://u2tc.rocketsoftware.com/documentation/1410030.asp), although we 
ecommend you do the CONVERT.SQL way.
>
> If you are running older versions of U2 you may need to update
> XTOOLSUB, which is also a Tech note on TechConnect.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
> [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Steve
> Romanow
> Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 11:14 AM
> To: U2 Users List
> Subject: Re: [U2] DataVu Query [ad]
>
> On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 1:04 PM, Bill Haskett
> wrote:
>> Steve:
>>
>> Really?  I was looking at DataVu for UniData and I understood that I
>> did need to SQL'ize all my data.  So, if I hosted a number of
>> accounts I'd have to go through the entire process of figuring how
>> to duplicate the accounts for SQL file access, keep them all
>> straight, and fight with all that this entails.
>>
>> Are you sure I misunderstood this?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Bill Haskett
>>
>> 
>> --
>> --
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* slestak...@gmail.com
>> *To:* U2 Users List
>> *Date:* 9/2/2011 9:47 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: [U2] DataVu Query [ad]
>>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 12:45 PM, John
>>> Thompson
>>>   wrote:
 For example:

 If my goal was to teach a fairly savvy computer user to get data
 out of
 U2
 into, lets say Excel... without the user coming to ask me to write
 some query for them...

 What would be the pros/cons of doing the ODBC way, vs. doing it
 the DataVu way?

 Forgive my ignorance... Does that make sense?

 On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 12:41 PM, Daniel
 McGrath wrote:
> I'm not entirely sure on what you want here?
>
> DataVu (the free Query and paid Report&Dashboard products) are
> querying, reporting and dashboard tools whereas ODBC is just an
> interface.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:
> u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of John 

Re: [U2] DataVu Query [ad]

[Wjhonson]

I don't think Mecki is that far.  I think she cannot connect to the server.





-Original Message-
From: David Jordan 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Tue, Sep 6, 2011 5:21 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] DataVu Query [ad]


Hi Mecki
ou need to set up in the UD.ACCOUNTS.   Install the xdemo account from the CD 
nd try connecting to that first.   I have installed with UniVerse and I am not 
s familiar with UniData, you may have to do a CONVERT.SQL, you will need to 
heck the documentation.  I would consider actually setting up a separate 
ccount with pointers to your live account or even build a mini datawarehouse in 
 separate account to do reporting from.   
Make sure that you are select the U2 options and not using the SQL database 
onnectors.   There are specific U2 data connections and queries.
Regards
avid Jordan
-Original Message-
rom: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org 
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] 
n Behalf Of Mecki Foerthmann
ent: Wednesday, 7 September 2011 9:02 AM
o: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
ubject: Re: [U2] DataVu Query [ad]
David,
I bet you are right, but what users want is to be able to install software like 
hat without having to search the documentation for hours.
 don't mind if I have to search for and download a JDBC driver from the net to 
onnect to SQL Server, DB2 or Oracle data sources but I expect a Rocket product 
o work straight away for U2.
 get a screen that asks me for the UD server name and even though that name one 
orks for SB client, VSG, UniAdmin and tools like mvDeveloper it won't connect 
n DataVu.
ll I found so far is that I need this driver (hell knows where to get it from) 
nd a file called bi.jdbc,drivers (or something like that) that needs to be 
reated somewhere by the administrator.
ell, I am the administrator and I haven't got a clue how to do that!

n 06/09/2011 23:22, David Jordan wrote:
 Mecki
 You do not need a JDBC driver, it uses uniobjects.   There is a video showing 
ow to install and read the documentation.   The installation is not intuitive, 
ut it is not hard.   I made the mistake first not to read the documentation 
hich takes you through step by step.

 Regards
 David Jordan

 -Original Message-
 From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org 
 [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Gerd 
 Forthmann
 Sent: Wednesday, 7 September 2011 1:00 AM
 To: U2 Users List
 Subject: Re: [U2] DataVu Query [ad]

 Well, I can't even connect to the host. A get an error message U2DB1004.
 I reckon you guys really need to make this a lot easier if you want people tto 
se this and buy the other modules.
 In the documentation it says something about a JDBC driver that needs to be 
nstalled but isn't included in the package and some obscure file that needs to 
e created somewhere and contains connection data but to me this is just Greek 
nd doesn't mean anything.
 Other products like mvDeveloper just work without having to find a driver 
omewhere and create any files by hand.
 I bet you can do better than that.

 Mecki
  Original-Nachricht 
> Datum: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 17:20:14 +
> Von: Daniel McGrath
> An: U2 Users List
> Betreff: Re: [U2] DataVu Query [ad]
> Okay, so once you download DV Query there is a quick start guide that 
> will tell you what you need to do.
>
> You need to run CONVERT.SQL on your files so that it has access to 
> them, but you don't need to worry about creating the schemas with VSG 
> or using HS.ADMIN like you would otherwise. Actually, there is a way 
> to just use UPDATE.SQL.PRIVILEGES to get around this 
> (https://u2tc.rocketsoftware.com/documentation/1410030.asp), although we 
ecommend you do the CONVERT.SQL way.
>
> If you are running older versions of U2 you may need to update 
> XTOOLSUB, which is also a Tech note on TechConnect.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
> [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Steve 
> Romanow
> Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 11:14 AM
> To: U2 Users List
> Subject: Re: [U2] DataVu Query [ad]
>
> On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 1:04 PM, Bill Haskett
> wrote:
>> Steve:
>>
>> Really?  I was looking at DataVu for UniData and I understood that I 
>> did need to SQL'ize all my data.  So, if I hosted a number of 
>> accounts I'd have to go through the entire process of figuring how 
>> to duplicate the accounts for SQL file access, keep them all 
>> straight, and fight with all that this entails.
>>
>> Are you sure I misunderstood this?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Bill Haskett
>>
>> 
>> --
>> --
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* slestak...@gmail.com
>> *To:* U2 Users List
>> *Date:* 9/2/2011 9:47 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: [U2] DataVu Query [ad]
>>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 12:45 PM, John 
>>> Thompson
>>>   wrote:
 For example:

 If my goal was to teach a fairly savvy computer user to get data 
 out of
 U2
 into, lets s

Re: [U2] Catalog In Place

[Wjhonson]

Task: Write a BASIC helper program that will, figure out whether or not this 
routine was previously catalogued locally, normally or globally and then, 
automatically, after executing a BASIC on it, execute the appropriate CATALOG 
on it as well.

Possible?

Useful?
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Re: [U2] Catalog In Place

[Wjhonson]

The help on VCATALOG only seems to imply that it returns "verifies" or "does 
not verify".
How does that tell me if it was catalogued at all, cataloged locally, normally, 
or globally ?






-Original Message-
From: Glenn Sallis 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Wed, Sep 7, 2011 4:02 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] Catalog In Place


Hi Will,
Everything is possible!
Your friend in this case is the VCATALOG (verify catalog) command.
If you want to do it all in one routine, execute the VCATALOG command 
rom your program, capture and do a check on the output which should 
ndicate how the program was cataloged.Then you could do a CASE 
tatement to choose how you want to catalog it this time depending on 
our specific criteria.
Be careful though, I don't know how complex your application is, so you 
ay be playing with fire. You don't want to get into a situation where 
ifferent accounts are using different versions of object code and your 
rograms get out of sync.
My advice, make sure you catalog correctly the first time!
Grüße
lenn

Am 08.09.2011 00:24, schrieb Wjhonson:
 Task: Write a BASIC helper program that will, figure out whether or not this 
outine was previously catalogued locally, normally or globally and then, 
utomatically, after executing a BASIC on it, execute the appropriate CATALOG on 
t as well.

 Possible?

 Useful?
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Re: [U2] Lock Status

[Wjhonson]

Kevin sorry but no.
There is no function that will tell you the "line of code" or even the program 
which set a lock.

You could however, as others have suggested determine the PID which set it, AND 
(not OR) write a routine which wakes up every five minutes and copies the 
current lock table into a history item, compare and contrast so you can get a 
running map of exactly WHEN and by WHOM the nasty lock is being set.

Then after you run that for a week, send the results to the Vendor and say, "OK 
now fix it bozo!"
Optionally you can leave off "bozo".





-Original Message-
From: Kevin King 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Thu, Sep 8, 2011 8:20 am
Subject: Re: [U2] Lock Status


Unfortunately, no love there either John.  I even went to the GETREADU( .. )
unction in BASIC.. nothing there.
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Re: [U2] Lock Status

[Wjhonson]

This won't work unless the program is halted-waiting.
Most likely it's moved on to do a hundred other things since the lock in 
question, but left it hanging because the pid is still living.
If the pid dies it would release the lock, but for example, even on non-SB 
systems, phantoms which run constantly can leave locks hanging forever.





-Original Message-
From: Jeff Schasny 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Thu, Sep 8, 2011 8:34 am
Subject: Re: [U2] Lock Status


Kevin,
I think that the closest you are going to be able to get is the program 
n question using LIST.READU to determine the PID and PORT.STATUS to 
hen find the program. I don't know of any way to dynamically get to the 
rogram line number from there. You could, of course, just look through 
he program source and the READUs then make an educated guess from there.
Kevin King wrote:
 Unfortunately, no love there either John.  I even went to the GETREADU( .. )
 function in BASIC.. nothing there.
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-- 
---
eff Schasny - Denver, Co, USA
schasny at gmail dot com
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Re: [U2] Free Software for DataBasic

[Wjhonson]

Fix... the... URL!
http://109.104.64.69/cms/cmshome.wsp

Ugly ugly ugh






-Original Message-
From: Glenn Sallis 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Thu, Sep 8, 2011 8:46 am
Subject: Re: [U2] Free Software for DataBasic


All,
If anyone does have code samples (other than games!) of how to achieve 
pecific tasks that they would like to share, please do so at the U2UG 
ebsite: www.u2ug.org by following the wiki link.
This is your resource provided to you by the U2UG Board for everything 
2 related. Please use it and contribute to it, as it will only be 
ctive if you do contribute to it.
Kind regards
lenn Sallis


m 08.09.2011 17:21, schrieb DavidJMurray (mvdbs.com):
 Over the last weekend, I noticed that the pickwiki.com (the common mv code
 website) does not have any games programmes.

 I can remember playing the star-trek and adventure games on a Ultimate (or
 Altos I think), many years ago.

 Does anyone have any remnant or complete code that they can (legally) and
 would be willing to contribute to pickwiki.com?



 -

 Learn and Do
 Excel and Share


 http://mvdbs.com http://mvdbs.com
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Re: [U2] DataVu Query [ad]

[Wjhonson]

Obviously your install team did not include a 55 year old school teacher and an 
8 year old boy!





-Original Message-
From: David Jordan 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:45 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] DataVu Query [ad]


Hi Steve
here have been 2 betas and I have been on both and requests were made through 
he Rocket newsletter.   The issues are probably a combination of people 
mplementing on a broader spectrum of environments than was tested and also an 
ssue of not being as intuitive to install.
Regards
avid Jordan
-Original Message-
rom: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org 
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] 
n Behalf Of Steve Romanow
ent: Thursday, 8 September 2011 11:27 AM
o: U2 Users List
ubject: Re: [U2] DataVu Query [ad]
That is cool. Wish we could have done a beta and help shake some of these out.
Thank you Rocket for continuing to push the platform.
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Re: [U2] Lock Status

[Wjhonson]

That's not the case.
PORT.STATUS shows you what that PID is currently doing when you run it.
Not what it was doing an hour ago for example.
Not what it was doing when it set the lock.
Just what it's doing now.
In Unix/Universe world.

If you are so lucky to know about the lock *right when* it's being set, then 
you are right.
But in my experience that is a very rare occurence.
And in this particular example, he already stated that it was a lock left set 
some time earlier.
You can only know the program being run by that PID if that program is in some 
sort of waiting condition and had been waiting since it set the lock.







-Original Message-
From: Jeff Schasny 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:30 am
Subject: Re: [U2] Lock Status


I believe that if the program ended the lock would be released, so by 
inding the PID via LIST.READU and then determining the program name 
ssociated with the PID via PORT.STATUS you are identifying the program 
hich currently holds the lock unless the program ends between the 
IST.READU and PORT.STATUS.
At least in my Unix/Universe world.
Wjhonson wrote:
 This won't work unless the program is halted-waiting.
 Most likely it's moved on to do a hundred other things since the lock in 
uestion, but left it hanging because the pid is still living.
 If the pid dies it would release the lock, but for example, even on non-SB 
ystems, phantoms which run constantly can leave locks hanging forever.





 -Original Message-
 From: Jeff Schasny 
 To: U2 Users List 
 Sent: Thu, Sep 8, 2011 8:34 am
 Subject: Re: [U2] Lock Status


 Kevin,
 I think that the closest you are going to be able to get is the program 
 n question using LIST.READU to determine the PID and PORT.STATUS to 
 hen find the program. I don't know of any way to dynamically get to the 
 rogram line number from there. You could, of course, just look through 
 he program source and the READUs then make an educated guess from there.
 Kevin King wrote:
  Unfortunately, no love there either John.  I even went to the GETREADU( .. )
  function in BASIC.. nothing there.
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---
eff Schasny - Denver, Co, USA
schasny at gmail dot com
---
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Re: [U2] Lock Status

[Wjhonson]

Port.status shows what is currently running on that PID
Not what was running when the lock was set.

The "process" is not the "program".  You are using the words interchangebly 
when they are not.
A process can run a long stack up and down adding and pruning.  The call stack 
only shows the current stack of the stack, not what the state was when the lock 
was set.

If a member of the old call stack had set a lock, that lock persists until the 
entire call stack is completely depleted.
Which could be 20 routines later.





-Original Message-
From: Jeff Schasny 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:30 am
Subject: Re: [U2] Lock Status


I disagree.
If I run LIST.READU and note the PID of a process holding a lock on an 
tem then run PORT.STATUS on that PID the only way that the program 
hown by PORT.STATUS as currently running is not the process holding the 
ock would be if the program ended (thus dropping the lock) before I ran 
he PORT.STATUS.
Wjhonson wrote:
 That's not the case.
 PORT.STATUS shows you what that PID is currently doing when you run it.
 Not what it was doing an hour ago for example.
 Not what it was doing when it set the lock.
 Just what it's doing now.
 In Unix/Universe world.

 If you are so lucky to know about the lock *right when* it's being set, then 
ou are right.
 But in my experience that is a very rare occurence.
 And in this particular example, he already stated that it was a lock left set 
ome time earlier.
 You can only know the program being run by that PID if that program is in some 
ort of waiting condition and had been waiting since it set the lock.

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Re: [U2] Lock Status

[Wjhonson]

This still would not be accurate for the reasons already stated.
The call stack only shows you what routine is on the stack.  If the lock had 
been set for hours, who knows what routine was there previously?
As you yourself stated, locks can persist, after the routine which created them 
has gone away.

The only viable solution is to record the lock at the time it is set.






-Original Message-
From: George Hammerle 
To: u2-users 
Sent: Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:36 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] Lock Status



ven if the program ended that locked the item, the lock could still be 
aintained if the file variable was passed.
I know this is after the fact but, one option going forward would be to write a 
rapper program for READU's and call it "LOCK.RECORD". I use this approach 
xtensively.
CALL *LOCK.RECORD( R.RECORD, KEY.TO.RECORD, FILE.VARIABLE )
1. If it is a phantom, perform a READU
. If it is a real user, use the LOCKED clause 
a. If it is locked, display whom has it locked followed by an INPUT ( if it is 
B+, use a DISP ).
b. If it is not locked, lock it.
 This allows them to see who has them locked and contact the guilty party
. NEW OPTION : Once locked, you could get the call stack and record to a file 
hich program locked it ( excluding this sub - LOCK.RECORD ). Or you could add 
n additional parameter to this sub and pass in the program name. 

e already do 1 and 2, but 3 would be an interesting option. 

e also have a sub called LOCK.RECORD.ESCAPE that gives the user the option to 
scape if the record is locked and it also displays who has them locked. We only 
se this option when it is safe to escape and it sends back "ESCAPED" 1 or 0 so 
e can handle the escape properly.


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Re: [U2] Lock Status

[Wjhonson]

If you rewrote your system to whip eggs, then it would whip eggs.
But this doesn't fix the underlying issue that there are many systems already 
out there, which cannot whip eggs.

And which you do not have the luxury to rewrite, but have to live with them the 
way they are.
There IS a way to get around this problem, but not retroactively, only 
proactively.





-Original Message-
From: Mecki Foerthmann 
To: u2-users 
Sent: Thu, Sep 8, 2011 1:28 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] Lock Status


I dare to disagree.
f you ALWAYS use a subroutine that records the pid, the file, item Id 
nd program on a logfile when you want to read and lock a record and 
LWAYS use a subroutine that removes the info from the logfile to write 
r release this could work.
therwise it won't.
On 08/09/2011 20:39, Wjhonson wrote:
 This still would not be accurate for the reasons already stated.
 The call stack only shows you what routine is on the stack.  If the lock had 
een set for hours, who knows what routine was there previously?
 As you yourself stated, locks can persist, after the routine which created 
hem has gone away.

 The only viable solution is to record the lock at the time it is set.






 -Original Message-
 From: George Hammerle
 To: u2-users
 Sent: Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:36 pm
 Subject: Re: [U2] Lock Status



 ven if the program ended that locked the item, the lock could still be
 aintained if the file variable was passed.
 I know this is after the fact but, one option going forward would be to write 

 rapper program for READU's and call it "LOCK.RECORD". I use this approach
 xtensively.
 CALL *LOCK.RECORD( R.RECORD, KEY.TO.RECORD, FILE.VARIABLE )
 1. If it is a phantom, perform a READU
 . If it is a real user, use the LOCKED clause
 a. If it is locked, display whom has it locked followed by an INPUT ( if it is
 B+, use a DISP ).
 b. If it is not locked, lock it.
   This allows them to see who has them locked and contact the guilty party
 . NEW OPTION : Once locked, you could get the call stack and record to a file
 hich program locked it ( excluding this sub - LOCK.RECORD ). Or you could add
 n additional parameter to this sub and pass in the program name.

 e already do 1 and 2, but 3 would be an interesting option.

 e also have a sub called LOCK.RECORD.ESCAPE that gives the user the option to
 scape if the record is locked and it also displays who has them locked. We 
nly
 se this option when it is safe to escape and it sends back "ESCAPED" 1 or 0 so
 e can handle the escape properly.


 This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
 olely for the use of the individual or company to whom they are addressed. If
 ou have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately 
nd
 elete this e-mail including all attachments from your system. Thank you
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Re: [U2] Ardent programmers

[Wjhonson]

In my copy of Acct.Stat.B the following programmer initials dating from 1992 to 
2000

PVW, WLC, AGM, JC, DJD, PEJ, SAP, DSM, LKS

anyone have long names ?


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Re: [U2] Ardent programmers

[Wjhonson]

Not only did he use the first Go To, but also the first Return To
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Re: [U2] Ardent programmers

[Wjhonson]

The Sequel was followed by the "Super" Sequel which tested, at the time, the 
boundary of moving from say 96 users up to 192 users.
The Spirit was something like the striped down version of the Sequel for those 
who didn't want or need or couldn't afford the Sequel.
It wasn't a viable option for Sequel users to move to the Spirit, it was more 
the attempt to get into the "smaller" marketplace where you only needed 24 
ports or thereabouts.

By the way the Super Sequel was three refrigerators, side by side.
ADP sold-in the Sequel, super Sequel and Spirit all three.  I don't really know 
what kind of traction they got with the Spirit.
That was right about the time when they *suddenly* had 20 competitors in the 
same space.

Is there a way to make your picture bigger?
By the way I don't think Data General ever installed software from Pick and 
Company, but they did load Universe on several boxes.
I wonder if there's a way to indicate that sort of distinction in your map?

I want to say that DG didn't get into Pick until around 1990, but I'm not 
certain of exactly the year.
So if I'm right, they didn't come in with the hyenas under R83





-Original Message-
From: Dawn Wolthuis 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Fri, Sep 9, 2011 11:58 am
Subject: Re: [U2] Ardent programmers


You are right, I think, but what was I thinking? They are in yellow boxes in
y diagram, so I seem not to have normalized my data. Hmmm. I was being so
nal at the time. Does anyone know if the yellow boxes in the Reality stream
ere were what folks at Microdata called the software or were "just"
ardware?
http://www.tincat-group.com/mv/MVFamilyTreeColor.pdf
Thanks.  --dawn
On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 11:28 AM, George Gallen wrote:
> I was thinking Spirit was the McDonnell Douglass Equipment - Was it also
 software?
 Nice little machine...

 I'm also guessing, it's a slow Friday!

 -Original Message-
 From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:
 u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Dawn Wolthuis
 Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 12:15 PM
 To: U2 Users List
 Subject: Re: [U2] Ardent programmers

 Oh good catch -- I was using only words of the actual products, but pulling
 in some hardware would give us more terrific words.
 cheers!  --dawn

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Re: [U2] Ardent programmers

[Wjhonson]

By the way, the Sequoia system wasn't quite called mvEnterprise quite so early 
as you're showing (seems to be 1995 ish).
It was still being called just Sequoia.  I'm wondering if the odd name-change 
didn't occur until the company collapsed ?
I mean there's no reason to try to "distinguish" mvEnterprise from mvBase until 
you're all folded into a single company right?






-Original Message-
From: Wjhonson 
To: u2-users 
Sent: Fri, Sep 9, 2011 12:15 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] Ardent programmers



he Sequel was followed by the "Super" Sequel which tested, at the time, the 
oundary of moving from say 96 users up to 192 users.
he Spirit was something like the striped down version of the Sequel for those 
ho didn't want or need or couldn't afford the Sequel.
t wasn't a viable option for Sequel users to move to the Spirit, it was more 
he attempt to get into the "smaller" marketplace where you only needed 24 ports 
r thereabouts.
By the way the Super Sequel was three refrigerators, side by side.
DP sold-in the Sequel, super Sequel and Spirit all three.  I don't really know 
hat kind of traction they got with the Spirit.
hat was right about the time when they *suddenly* had 20 competitors in the 
ame space.
Is there a way to make your picture bigger?
y the way I don't think Data General ever installed software from Pick and 
ompany, but they did load Universe on several boxes.
 wonder if there's a way to indicate that sort of distinction in your map?
I want to say that DG didn't get into Pick until around 1990, but I'm not 
ertain of exactly the year.
o if I'm right, they didn't come in with the hyenas under R83


-Original Message-
rom: Dawn Wolthuis 
o: U2 Users List 
ent: Fri, Sep 9, 2011 11:58 am
ubject: Re: [U2] Ardent programmers

ou are right, I think, but what was I thinking? They are in yellow boxes in
 diagram, so I seem not to have normalized my data. Hmmm. I was being so
al at the time. Does anyone know if the yellow boxes in the Reality stream
re were what folks at Microdata called the software or were "just"
rdware?
ttp://www.tincat-group.com/mv/MVFamilyTreeColor.pdf
hanks.  --dawn
n Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 11:28 AM, George Gallen wrote:
 I was thinking Spirit was the McDonnell Douglass Equipment - Was it also
software?
Nice little machine...
 I'm also guessing, it's a slow Friday!
 -Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:
u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Dawn Wolthuis
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 12:15 PM
To: U2 Users List
Subject: Re: [U2] Ardent programmers
 Oh good catch -- I was using only words of the actual products, but pulling
in some hardware would give us more terrific words.
cheers!  --dawn
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Re: [U2] Ardent programmers

[Wjhonson]

By the way, I today, for the first time in my career, encountered a seasoned 
Pick BASIC programmer, conversant with Paragraphs, but who did not know what 
Proc was.  Never heard of it.

It only took 20 years of trying to make Proc die I guess ;)


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Re: [U2] Ardent programmers

[Wjhonson]

I really don't know what you guys are complaining about.
My first career position was maintaining and enhancing a system written 
entirely in  RPL (the one from SMI, not that other one)

Proc is like eating cake compared to RPL.


http://knol.google.com/k/will-johnson/rpl-computer-language-by-smi/4hmquk6fx4gu/715#


No it's not the third buffer position of stack 6 it's the sixth buffer position 
of stack 3 !!
Push push push pop add one switch push pop take three chars copy copy push pop 


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Re: [U2] Ardent programmers

[Wjhonson]

That's right Tony, but my point was only that it was not *called* mvEnterprise 
in the mid 90s like Dawn's chart would imply.  (Where it's just called 
mvEnterprise with no predecessor name.)





-Original Message-
From: Tony Gravagno <3xk547...@sneakemail.com>
To: u2-users 
Sent: Fri, Sep 9, 2011 1:32 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] Ardent programmers


> From: Wjhonson
 I mean there's no reason to try to "distinguish" 
 mvEnterprise from mvBase until you're all folded into 
 a single company right?
mvEnterprise is a Unix-based platform derived from Sequoia.
vBase is a Windows-based platform derived from ADDS.
hey're VERY different, though of course still rooted in R83.
Both platforms are now owned by TigerLogic, and despite early
oncerns about deprecation and forced migration, the platforms
ave been well supported for more than 10 years since the
cquisition from General Automation.
As an aside, I've been LOLing at the lighter notes in this
hread. Thanks folks.
Final Note: my recent blogs discuss retrofitting code for GUI,
ndroid development, advanced Excel reporting, and more.  See
ink below.  Thanks.
Tony Gravagno
ebula Research and Development
G@ remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com
ebula R&D sells mv.NET and other Pick/MultiValue products
orldwide, and provides related development services
emove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com/blog
isit PickWiki.com! Contribute!
ttp://Twitter.com/TonyGravagno

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Re: [U2] Ardent programmers

[Wjhonson]

Here it is.  Sequoia ran Open Architecture from Pick Systems.

They heavily modified it.  I think they did, or at least TRIED to market 
something called Pick 64 under their own license, or some kind of sub sub 
license scheme to other vendors.
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Re: [U2] Ardent programmers

[Wjhonson]

I just don't think "Sequoia" ever called it "mvEnterprise"
That was my point :)
That it wasn't renamed until after Sequoia was defuncta.






-Original Message-
From: Dawn Wolthuis 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Fri, Sep 9, 2011 1:47 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] Ardent programmers


I think from OA to SequoiaPro to mvEnterprise. You can see that I bled
vEnterprise into the border. It is just a long word.  --dawn
On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 3:44 PM, Wjhonson  wrote:
>
 Here it is.  Sequoia ran Open Architecture from Pick Systems.

 They heavily modified it.  I think they did, or at least TRIED to market
 something called Pick 64 under their own license, or some kind of sub sub
 license scheme to other vendors.
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Re: [U2] Ardent programmers

[Wjhonson]

Extend it into the 2000s!
That's what's missing.  The great mergers






-Original Message-
From: Dawn Wolthuis 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Fri, Sep 9, 2011 2:07 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] Ardent programmers


Right, it does not have Sequoia under it when it has that name, it flows
nto TigerLogic. There was a ton of information to try to capture and there
as likely a better way to show this.  Thanks for any tips on anything
ither inaccurate or not clear. This could obviously be much better and is
ow a almost a decade old. Cache' isn't even on it and that's the product
'm using!  --dawn
On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 3:53 PM, Wjhonson  wrote:
>
 I just don't think "Sequoia" ever called it "mvEnterprise"
 That was my point :)
 That it wasn't renamed until after Sequoia was defuncta.






 -Original Message-
 From: Dawn Wolthuis 
 To: U2 Users List 
 Sent: Fri, Sep 9, 2011 1:47 pm
 Subject: Re: [U2] Ardent programmers


 I think from OA to SequoiaPro to mvEnterprise. You can see that I bled
 vEnterprise into the border. It is just a long word.  --dawn
 On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 3:44 PM, Wjhonson  wrote:
 >
  Here it is.  Sequoia ran Open Architecture from Pick Systems.

  They heavily modified it.  I think they did, or at least TRIED to market
  something called Pick 64 under their own license, or some kind of sub sub
  license scheme to other vendors.
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Re: [U2] Ardent programmers

[Wjhonson]

And then at some point, when a part fails, it tries to call Sequoia to send a 
tech to fix itself.
It doesn't know how to handle the message "The phone number you've reached has 
been disconnected"

All sad face.






-Original Message-
From: Ed Clark 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Fri, Sep 9, 2011 3:37 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] Ardent programmers


mvEnterprise doesn't require any support :) It just runs and runs.
On Sep 9, 2011, at 4:31 PM, Tony Gravagno wrote:
>> From: Wjhonson
> I mean there's no reason to try to "distinguish" 
> mvEnterprise from mvBase until you're all folded into 
> a single company right?
 
 mvEnterprise is a Unix-based platform derived from Sequoia.
 mvBase is a Windows-based platform derived from ADDS.
 They're VERY different, though of course still rooted in R83.
 
 Both platforms are now owned by TigerLogic, and despite early
 concerns about deprecation and forced migration, the platforms
 have been well supported for more than 10 years since the
 acquisition from General Automation.
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Re: [U2] I-type Subvalue question

[Wjhonson]

Trans does not retain the marks as there are.
Trans always LOWERs all marks.
So to focus on any particular mark, you should next RAISE the entire 
output-so-far.






-Original Message-
From: John Thompson 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Mon, Sep 12, 2011 1:26 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] I-type Subvalue question


No... I think you mean this?
TRANS('PRODUCT', PRD.ID.90, '12', 'V'); @1<1.1>
I also tried with 1,1 and no cigar...
On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 4:24 PM, Caryl Lange  wrote:
> 1.1 instead?

 Avante 9.1.7a/SB+ on Windows, tasty GUI flavored

 Best Regards,
 Caryl Lange
 Applications Development Manager
 HME
 14110 Stowe Drive
 Poway, California 92064
 phone: (858) 646-8806
 cla...@hme.com
 Visit our website: www.hme.com

 Please consider the environment before printing this email

   CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: E-mail may contain proprietary confidential
 information that is legally privileged. Do not read this e-mail if you are
 not the intended recipient.
 This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mail
 messages attached to it may contain proprietary information, trade secrets,
 and/or other confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are
 not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the
 intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying,
 distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to
 this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this
 transmission in error, please immediately notify the original sender by
 return E-mail, and destroy the original transmission and its attachments
 without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you.


 -Original Message-
 From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:
 u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of John Thompson
 Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 1:23 PM
 To: U2 Users List
 Subject: Re: [U2] I-type Subvalue question

 I get this still...

 DOR  610-434   0.78
   0.00
   0.00
   0.00
   0.53

 That is a number 1 in the @1 right?

 On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 4:18 PM, George Gallen wrote:

 > What happens if you do:
 >
 > TRANS('PRODUCT',PRD.ID.90,'12','V') ; @1<1,1>
 > Mr2
 > Cost
 > 10R
 > S
 >
 >
 >
 > -Original Message-
 > From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:
 > u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of John Thompson
 > Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 4:11 PM
 > To: U2 Users List
 > Subject: [U2] I-type Subvalue question
 >
 > Lets say I need to translate over to a file and get the cost of a
 product.
 >
 > However, the cost of the product is multivalued.
 >
 > How can I do this with an I-type and NOT grab all of the multi values?
 >
 > I
 > TRANS('PRODUCT', PRD.ID.90, '12', 'V')
 > MR2
 > Cost
 > 10R
 > S
 >
 > So in attribute 12 of the PRODUCT file, I just need <12,1>.
 >
 > Do I need two I-types, or will TRANS() let me do this?
 >
 > The friendly manual seems to be failing me...
 >
 > --
 > John Thompson
 > ___
 > U2-Users mailing list
 > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org
 > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
 > ___
 > U2-Users mailing list
 > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org
 > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
 >



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Re: [U2] I-type Subvalue question

[Wjhonson]

George another trick to add to your bag of tricks
You *can* actually access this level of delim.
It's called the @TM, which you can access in an I-desc; but you are right you 
cannot access 1,1,1,1 as such
what you have to do is use the FIELD command on @TM as the delim

Or you could Raise and then specify this locational directive.







-Original Message-
From: George Gallen 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Mon, Sep 12, 2011 1:44 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] I-type Subvalue question


Meant to say you  can't do @1<1,1,1,1>
-Original Message-
rom: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org 
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] 
n Behalf Of George Gallen
ent: Monday, September 12, 2011 4:43 PM
o: U2 Users List
ubject: Re: [U2] I-type Subvalue question
That's right...I forgot the raise()
You can either use <1,1,1> and no raise() - TRANS() ; @1<1,1,1>
r raise and <1,1> - TRANS() ; RAISE(@1) ; @2<1,1>
But if your really need to access data separated by SVM's, you have to use RAISE
TRANS() ; RAISE(@1) ; @2<1,1,1>
Because you can do:
TRANS() ; @1<1,1,1,1>
-Original Message-
rom: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org 
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] 
n Behalf Of John Thompson
ent: Monday, September 12, 2011 4:39 PM
o: U2 Users List
ubject: Re: [U2] I-type Subvalue question
The @1<1,1,1> worked.
Weird...  So the output is not the same as whats in the data?
Be nice of them to document that :)
On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 4:37 PM, Wjhonson  wrote:
>
 Trans does not retain the marks as there are.
 Trans always LOWERs all marks.
 So to focus on any particular mark, you should next RAISE the entire
 output-so-far.






 -Original Message-
 From: John Thompson 
 To: U2 Users List 
 Sent: Mon, Sep 12, 2011 1:26 pm
 Subject: Re: [U2] I-type Subvalue question


 No... I think you mean this?
 TRANS('PRODUCT', PRD.ID.90, '12', 'V'); @1<1.1>
 I also tried with 1,1 and no cigar...
 On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 4:24 PM, Caryl Lange  wrote:
 > 1.1 instead?

  Avante 9.1.7a/SB+ on Windows, tasty GUI flavored

  Best Regards,
  Caryl Lange
  Applications Development Manager
  HME
  14110 Stowe Drive
  Poway, California 92064
  phone: (858) 646-8806
  cla...@hme.com
  Visit our website: www.hme.com

  Please consider the environment before printing this email

   CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: E-mail may contain proprietary confidential
  information that is legally privileged. Do not read this e-mail if you are
  not the intended recipient.
  This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mail
  messages attached to it may contain proprietary information, trade
 secrets,
  and/or other confidential information that is legally privileged. If you
 are
  not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to
 the
  intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying,
  distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to
  this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this
  transmission in error, please immediately notify the original sender by
  return E-mail, and destroy the original transmission and its attachments
  without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you.


  -Original Message-
  From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:
  u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of John Thompson
  Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 1:23 PM
  To: U2 Users List
  Subject: Re: [U2] I-type Subvalue question

  I get this still...

  DOR  610-434   0.78
   0.00
   0.00
   0.00
   0.53

  That is a number 1 in the @1 right?

  On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 4:18 PM, George Gallen wrote:

  > What happens if you do:
  >
  > TRANS('PRODUCT',PRD.ID.90,'12','V') ; @1<1,1>
  > Mr2
  > Cost
  > 10R
  > S
  >
  >
  >
  > -Original Message-
  > From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:
  > u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of John Thompson
  > Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 4:11 PM
  > To: U2 Users List
  > Subject: [U2] I-type Subvalue question
  >
  > Lets say I need to translate over to a file and get the cost of a
  product.
  >
  > However, the cost of the product is multivalued.
  >
  > How can I do this with an I-type and NOT grab all of the multi values?
  >
  > I
  > TRANS('PRODUCT', PRD.ID.90, '12', 'V')
  > MR2
  > Cost
  > 10R
  > S
  >
  > So in attribute 12 of the PRODUCT file, I just need <12,1>.
  >
  > Do I need two I-types, or will TRANS() let me do this?
  >
  > The friendly manual seems to be failing me...
  >
  > --
  > John Thompson
  > __

[U2] Start job on Universe boot under Windows

[Wjhonson]

Back in the olden times, we used to stuff things into WarmStart to make them 
start at boot time.


Where do I stick them in Universe to make them start when Universe starts?
I'd *prefer* a place that is Universe generic (will work the same under *nix or 
Windows).
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Re: [U2] I-type Subvalue question

[Wjhonson]

To expand and clarify
The first expression is 1
The second expression is 2
There are no negative values used






-Original Message-
From: Charles Stevenson 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Thu, Sep 15, 2011 9:33 am
Subject: Re: [U2] I-type Subvalue question


@  w/o a number means previous expression.
hese 2 mean the same thing:
TRANS('ORDERS', ORDKEY, LINES, 'X'); @<1,1,2>
TRANS('ORDERS', ORDKEY, LINES, 'X'); @1<1,1,2>

On 9/15/2011 11:18 AM, Woodward, Bob wrote:
 Wait a minute... How do you point to the previous expression?  @<-1>

 -Original Message-
 From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
 [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wols Lists
 Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 9:05 AM
 To: U2 Users List
 Subject: Re: [U2] I-type Subvalue question

 On 15/09/11 14:38, Charles Stevenson wrote:
> Allows you to reference this I-descriptor from another I-descriptor
> in the future.
> UV doesn't let you do that if there are multiple expressions
> separated by semi-colons.
> There is no good reason for that restriction other than internal,
> how it was implemented.
 I think Prime might have had the same restriction. But it's because UV
 doesn't reference one I-descriptor from another, it expands it and all
 the @s end up pointing to the wrong place. Actually, so if your @ merely
 points at the previous expression, it should work. It's as soon as you
 use @1 @2 etc that it'll blow up.

 Cheers,
 Wol
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Re: [U2] UniVerse 10.3 with Domain Controller Failure

[Wjhonson]

Local login script on Universe is doing something funky.
Try to connect using the Universe Shell application directly on the UV server 
in the computer room, not locally from your PC






-Original Message-
From: David Wolverton 
To: 'U2 Users List' 
Sent: Thu, Sep 15, 2011 9:51 am
Subject: [U2] UniVerse 10.3 with Domain Controller Failure


The domain controller failed. The Backup took over.
Universe 10.3 appears to hang on login - just dead.
UniData on the same site (on another server) hangs for a moment and
complains', but completes the login and runs correctly - so it appears that
t 'finds' the backup controller.
What's the story with UniVerse?
One other piece:  There are TWO BDCs, the UniVerse box appears to look at
ne (as do other machines) while the UniData box looks at another (as do
ther machines there) -- UniData and UniVerse are the ONLY applications
hrowing issues right now -- all other items (SQL Server, Great Plains, etc)
eem to be humming along.
Thoughts appreciated!


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Re: [U2] UniVerse 10.3 with Domain Controller Failure

[Wjhonson]

What exactly do you mean by the statement that uvshell "hangs"
Do you mean it opens the uvshell application but will not give you any message 
at all?  so its just a blank gray screen?
Or do you mean it won't even open the application window?

If you can run uvshell as a local user, can you LISTU to see if the default 
background processes are running?
I mean the uvdlock, the phantom processer, the console, etc






-Original Message-
From: John Thompson 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Thu, Sep 15, 2011 10:19 am
Subject: Re: [U2] UniVerse 10.3 with Domain Controller Failure


Perhaps the Domain Controller that failed also had DNS running on it?
Perhaps its a DNS issue... you say one Unidata server takes a while and
inally logs in...
Another shot in the dark.
On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 1:15 PM, David Wolverton  wrote:
> See, I would suspect something like this as well, but the %LOGONSERVER% is
 'up', and Great Plains running on the same server as the UniVerse server is
 working A-OK.  (I hate the fact they have 3 different databases on this
 machine, but it is illustrative that it's 'only UniVerse' as both the Great
 Plains and the Oracle databases are running without a glitch since the
 failover, so I'm looking at what I can do to 'fix' Universe.)

 -Original Message-
 From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
 [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of John Thompson
 Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 12:11 PM
 To: U2 Users List
 Subject: Re: [U2] UniVerse 10.3 with Domain Controller Failure

 This is a wild guess...  So my disclaimer is, "Try at your own risk"

 Part of my hatred for Windows Active Directory resides with this very
 issue,
 but, I digress...

 I have seen servers and workstations not talk to the backup domain
 controller before, especially after a primary domain controller failure.

 SO, IF, the Primary Domain Controller has failed... and the Backup is now
 controlling things, and the primary is still not up and running...

 You might be able to do the following to fix your login issue:

 1) Remove the UV server from the domain completely
 2) Reboot
 3) Re-join the UV server to the domain
 4) Reboot
 5) Check whatever UV uses (which I have no knowledge of) to login to the
 domain and make sure its not a hardcoded hostname pointer kind of thing to
 the domain controller that is not online.

 Like I said.  A wild guess, but, I've seen it work with other servers
 and workstations when a "Primary Domain Controller" would fail and the
 backup would pick up.  Don't ask me why...  I'm not a MCSE guy.

 On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 1:03 PM, David Wolverton 
 wrote:

 > If I log into the actual server after logging in as a "LOCAL" user, the
 UV
 > Shell starts up.
 >
 > If I log into the actual server after logging in as a "DOMAIN" user, the
 UV
 > Shell just hangs.
 >
 > This is after MANY reboots, so I know the UniVerse services are cleanly
 > restarted.
 >
 >
 > -Original Message-
 > From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
 > [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson
 > Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 11:57 AM
 > To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
 > Subject: Re: [U2] UniVerse 10.3 with Domain Controller Failure
 >
 >
 > Local login script on Universe is doing something funky.
 > Try to connect using the Universe Shell application directly on the UV
 > server in the computer room, not locally from your PC
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 > -Original Message-
 > From: David Wolverton 
 > To: 'U2 Users List' 
 > Sent: Thu, Sep 15, 2011 9:51 am
 > Subject: [U2] UniVerse 10.3 with Domain Controller Failure
 >
 >
 > The domain controller failed. The Backup took over.
 > Universe 10.3 appears to hang on login - just dead.
 > UniData on the same site (on another server) hangs for a moment and
 > complains', but completes the login and runs correctly - so it appears
 that
 > t 'finds' the backup controller.
 > What's the story with UniVerse?
 > One other piece:  There are TWO BDCs, the UniVerse box appears to look at
 > ne (as do other machines) while the UniData box looks at another (as do
 > ther machines there) -- UniData and UniVerse are the ONLY applications
 > hrowing issues right now -- all other items (SQL Server, Great Plains,
 etc)
 > eem to be humming along.
 > Thoughts appreciated!
 >
 >
 > __
 > 2-Users mailing list
 > 2-us...@listserver.u2ug.org
 > ttp://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
 >
 > ___
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 > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
 >
 >
 > 

Re: [U2] UniVerse 10.3 with Domain Controller Failure

[Wjhonson]

If you can get to TCL as a local user and cannot as a domain user, then I would 
suggest a permissions setting is wrong.
Your domain user can't "open" some file that Universe is trying to open.
For example uvtemp or something, who knows.
The "local" user would most likely own all the files.

But go to TCL and make sure what users are logged in.
For example nine hundred sessions trying to lock the uv.accounts file.






-Original Message-
From: David Wolverton 
To: 'U2 Users List' 
Sent: Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:03 am
Subject: Re: [U2] UniVerse 10.3 with Domain Controller Failure


Correct -- the screen opens and what you would normally see next is the
niVerse 'banner' - the cursor just blinks...  Nothing.
But the 'shell screen' is 'open' and 'trying' to connect.
And for DNS -- if the other applications were 'dead' as well on the machine,
gain, I'd suspect something 'outside' -- But it's sounding more like a
ocket support call than anything, so may have to ask the vendor to see what
hey say.

-Original Message-
rom: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson
ent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 12:29 PM
o: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
ubject: Re: [U2] UniVerse 10.3 with Domain Controller Failure

hat exactly do you mean by the statement that uvshell "hangs"
o you mean it opens the uvshell application but will not give you any
essage at all?  so its just a blank gray screen?
r do you mean it won't even open the application window?
If you can run uvshell as a local user, can you LISTU to see if the default
ackground processes are running?
 mean the uvdlock, the phantom processer, the console, etc



Original Message-
rom: John Thompson 
o: U2 Users List 
ent: Thu, Sep 15, 2011 10:19 am
ubject: Re: [U2] UniVerse 10.3 with Domain Controller Failure

erhaps the Domain Controller that failed also had DNS running on it?
erhaps its a DNS issue... you say one Unidata server takes a while and
nally logs in...
nother shot in the dark.
n Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 1:15 PM, David Wolverton  wrote:
 See, I would suspect something like this as well, but the %LOGONSERVER% is
'up', and Great Plains running on the same server as the UniVerse server is
working A-OK.  (I hate the fact they have 3 different databases on this
machine, but it is illustrative that it's 'only UniVerse' as both the Great
Plains and the Oracle databases are running without a glitch since the
failover, so I'm looking at what I can do to 'fix' Universe.)
 -Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of John Thompson
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 12:11 PM
To: U2 Users List
Subject: Re: [U2] UniVerse 10.3 with Domain Controller Failure
 This is a wild guess...  So my disclaimer is, "Try at your own risk"
 Part of my hatred for Windows Active Directory resides with this very
issue,
but, I digress...
 I have seen servers and workstations not talk to the backup domain
controller before, especially after a primary domain controller failure.
 SO, IF, the Primary Domain Controller has failed... and the Backup is now
controlling things, and the primary is still not up and running...
 You might be able to do the following to fix your login issue:
 1) Remove the UV server from the domain completely
2) Reboot
3) Re-join the UV server to the domain
4) Reboot
5) Check whatever UV uses (which I have no knowledge of) to login to the
domain and make sure its not a hardcoded hostname pointer kind of thing to
the domain controller that is not online.
 Like I said.  A wild guess, but, I've seen it work with other servers
and workstations when a "Primary Domain Controller" would fail and the
backup would pick up.  Don't ask me why...  I'm not a MCSE guy.
 On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 1:03 PM, David Wolverton 
wrote:
 > If I log into the actual server after logging in as a "LOCAL" user, the
UV
> Shell starts up.
>
> If I log into the actual server after logging in as a "DOMAIN" user, the
UV
> Shell just hangs.
>
> This is after MANY reboots, so I know the UniVerse services are cleanly
> restarted.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
> [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson
> Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 11:57 AM
> To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
> Subject: Re: [U2] UniVerse 10.3 with Domain Controller Failure
>
>
> Local login script on Universe is doing something funky.
> Try to connect using the Universe Shell application directly on the UV
> server in the computer room, not locally from your PC
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> Fro

Re: [U2] network drives

[Wjhonson]

Can Universe point at other computer and their drives on the Windows network?

//server1 running Universe
//server2 running something else

Universe basic program
EXECUTE "COPY FROM server2.file.pointer to myfile"

Is this possible?
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Re: [U2] FAST (File Analysis and Sizing Tool)

[Wjhonson]

Why not just make all your files dynamic
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Re: [U2] FAST (File Analysis and Sizing Tool)

[Wjhonson]

 could you or someone maybe provide a little more clarity on this issue?
The place where I'm now working has almost every file as a dynamic file that 
they claim have never been resized and are at least five to eight years old.  
And the system is actually amazingly fast to my mind.

 
So what would I be looking for to show that the files are actually not very 
efficient?


 

-Original Message-
From: Dan Fitzgerald 
To: u2-users 
Sent: Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:31 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] FAST (File Analysis and Sizing Tool)



My issue with dynamic files is that once they start splitting, the overhead 
increases dramatically. This is why they do need to be maintained. If the 
argument for them is "we don't have to maintain them", you're mistaken. 
Granted, 
a terribly sized dynamic file will perform better than a terribly sized static 
file, which brings us back to the original subject: use a tool like FAST, and 
maintain your files, whether static or dynamic.
 
> From: johnisr...@daytonsuperior.com
> To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
> Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 20:52:25 -0400
> Subject: Re: [U2] FAST (File Analysis and Sizing Tool)
> 
> Especially when mass loading a big but empty file!
> 
> John Israel
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Oct 4, 2011, at 8:50 PM, "Allen Egerton"  wrote:
> 
> > MINIMUM.MODULUS can be your friend...
> >
> >
> > On 10/4/2011 7:27 PM, Susan Lynch wrote:
> >> Eric, yes, in my experience, they do need resizing, particularly if they
> >> are very large files, which are the only ones I generally make dynamic.
> >>
> >> We have had issues with small dynamic files getting cleared by one user
> >> and updated by another user, and the resultant modulo being incorrect
> >> (usually off by 2 groups), so  I try very hard not to use dynamic files
> >> for small files that may be cleared.  That does not happen to us with
> >> static files, so I make them static and the problem does not recur.
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> John Israel
> Senior ERP Developer
> 
> Dayton Superior Corporation
> 1125 Byers Rd
> Miamisburg, OH 45342
> 
> 937-866-0711 x44380 (O)
> 937-865-9182 (F)
> 
> 
> This message w/attachments (message) is intended solely for the use of the 
intended recipient(s) and may contain information that is privileged, 
confidential or proprietary. If you are not an intended recipient, please 
notify 
the sender, and then please delete and destroy all copies and attachments, and 
be advised that any review or dissemination of, or the taking of any action in 
reliance on, the information contained in or attached to this message is 
prohibited.
> 
> 
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> >
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[U2] Count-Sup

[Wjhonson]

Just wanted to throw this out into the Internet world for documentation
on the ability to suppress items listed message in Universe


LIST VOC LIKE A... COUNT-SUP
will merrily list the voc items that start with A and then state xxx items 
listed

It does not complain that it has no idea what "COUNT-SUP" means, perhaps this 
is a Universe thing, that unknown words on the line are ignored.

LIST VOC LIKE A... COUNT.SUP
note the use of the period instead of the hyphen, performs normally in that the 
xxx items listed message is suppressed

I did a Google and didn't get no Googs, so now my successors should get at 
least one Goog.

W
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Re: [U2] Count-Sup

[Wjhonson]

More fun with Count.Sup

GET-LIST TEST
100 record(s) selected

CLEARSELECT

GET-LIST TEST COUNT.SUP
"TEST" is not a valid account name.


Say what?  What does Count.Sup or Get-List for that matter have to do with 
valid account names?

-Dubya
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Re: [U2] The math just doesn't work.

[Wjhonson]

I thought that large integer addition is why the functions SADD, SCMP and SDIV 
were invented?
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Re: [U2] Signal to noise, was DataFlo

[Wjhonson]

Look at the ratio of useful content to boiler plate in that message!
By the way, as a non-comical aside, do those services/sites like nabble 
actually copy messages off this list?  Or do they just preserve messages 
already going through their queue... or does that make no sense.

Also when a message goes to a public list, is the "intended recipient" everyone 
in the world?
So that, in order to violate this monster clause you'd have to be visiting from 
Orion?








-Original Message-
From: Buss, Troy (Logitek Systems) (Logitek Systems) 

To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Tue, Oct 11, 2011 10:43 am
Subject: Re: [U2] DataFlo


Dataflo, Yes. Epicor also maintains a nice user to user list here:  
ataflo-it-...@listserv.epicor.com
Good group of folks that help each other out if you have specific questions.
Did you have a specific question regarding the app or just a roll call?   :---)
_
canned by IBM Email Security Management Services powered by MessageLabs. For 
ore information please visit http://www.ers.ibm.com
This email is intended only for the use of the party to which it is addressed 
nd may contain information that is privileged, confidential, or protected by 
aw.  If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any 
issemination, copying or distribution of the email or its contents is strictly 
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Re: [U2] PHB was Signal to noise, was DataFlo

[Wjhonson]

"Therefore it's OBVIOUSLY the result of a PHB committee "

I googled for PHB as I didn't understand the reference
http://www.google.com/search?q=phb+committee&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=&oe=

I like "Professional Hygiene Brushware"... I have no idea to what that might 
even refer, but it certainly has a nice ring to it.
Or perhaps an absense of rings if properly utilized.



-Original Message-
From: Allen E. Elwood 
To: 'U2 Users List' 
Sent: Tue, Oct 11, 2011 11:40 am
Subject: Re: [U2] Signal to noise, was DataFlo



Contract law requires voluntary signatures of both parties, so this can't be
 contract and is therefore not legally binding.  Ergo, a complete waste of
andwidth since you cannot create a contract by emailing something to
omeone in error.
Also the bill of rights states that you cannot be compelled to self
ncriminate.  And therefore this is not binding to anyone who was purposely
stealing' this email.  Ergo, a complete waste of bandwidth.
Therefore this appears to be a threat of legal harassment should someone not
comply' with the unrealistic demand being made upon the unintended
ecipient and comes across as heavy handed, arrogant and slightly
elusional.
Therefore it's OBVIOUSLY the result of a PHB committee 


ven though you don't know us, we can boss you around and tell you to do
hings which require you to spend some time out of your day fulfilling our
idiculous request to inform us if we screwed up.  So if you get this
essage in error, we want you to a) wash all of our cars, b) do 20 hours of
ommunity service, c) call though our gauntlet of time wasting bureaucrats
n a vain attempt to inform us of our screw up, d) pay an extra 3% in taxes,
nd e) a babies arm holding an apple (which doesn't mean anything but
omeone in the committee just wanted to put that in there)
___


Original Message-
rom: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson
ent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 10:59 AM
o: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
ubject: Re: [U2] Signal to noise, was DataFlo

ook at the ratio of useful content to boiler plate in that message!
y the way, as a non-comical aside, do those services/sites like nabble
ctually copy messages off this list?  Or do they just preserve messages
lready going through their queue... or does that make no sense.
Also when a message goes to a public list, is the "intended recipient"
veryone in the world?
o that, in order to violate this monster clause you'd have to be visiting
rom Orion?




Original Message-
rom: Buss, Troy (Logitek Systems) (Logitek Systems)
troy.b...@nordsonasymtek.com>
o: U2 Users List 
ent: Tue, Oct 11, 2011 10:43 am
ubject: Re: [U2] DataFlo

ataflo, Yes. Epicor also maintains a nice user to user list here:  
taflo-it-...@listserv.epicor.com
ood group of folks that help each other out if you have specific questions.
id you have a specific question regarding the app or just a roll call?
---)
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Re: [U2] Green Screen - Wide Screen

[Wjhonson]

Accuterm 2K2 allows 240 chars for width.




-Original Message-
From: Bill Brutzman 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Mon, Oct 17, 2011 2:56 pm
Subject: [U2] Green Screen - Wide Screen


We have a large application that runs in Dynamic Connect... and needs more in 
he way of columns.
DC is limited to approx. 132 characters.  I believe that wIntegrate (when in 
ext mode) is the same.  We need maybe five times that.
While I have almost concluded that this app needs to be re-written in GUI... 
efore punting... are there any other angles worth consider... such as AccuTerm 
r some other text-based terminal emulator.
Is there a way to do this in DC or wIntegrate?
--Bill
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Re: [U2] Green Screen - Wide Screen [not-secure]

[Wjhonson]

Apparently.  But you're not required to use a tiny font, you can also scroll in 
the normal font.
Also many sites, like the one I'm at have dual screens I wonder if I can 
stretch Accuterm across two screens?



-Original Message-
From: Hennessey, Mark F. 
To: 'U2 Users List' 
Sent: Tue, Oct 18, 2011 5:58 am
Subject: Re: [U2] Green Screen - Wide Screen [not-secure]


240 characters? Do we really hate our users that much?
-Original Message-
rom: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org 
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] 
n Behalf Of Wjhonson
ent: Monday, October 17, 2011 6:25 PM
o: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
ubject: Re: [U2] Green Screen - Wide Screen

ccuterm 2K2 allows 240 chars for width.


Original Message-
rom: Bill Brutzman 
o: U2 Users List 
ent: Mon, Oct 17, 2011 2:56 pm
ubject: [U2] Green Screen - Wide Screen

e have a large application that runs in Dynamic Connect... and needs more in
e way of columns.
C is limited to approx. 132 characters.  I believe that wIntegrate (when in
xt mode) is the same.  We need maybe five times that.
hile I have almost concluded that this app needs to be re-written in GUI...
fore punting... are there any other angles worth consider... such as AccuTerm
 some other text-based terminal emulator.
s there a way to do this in DC or wIntegrate?
-Bill
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Re: [U2] [UV] LIST.READU EVERY's "waiters" when there are writes w/o explicit readu.

[Wjhonson]

20 points to anyone who is old enough to remember *why* we couldn't rely on the 
Locked clause.





-Original Message-
From: Charles Stevenson 
To: Paul Wilson ; U2 Users List 

Sent: Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:28 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] [UV] LIST.READU EVERY's "waiters" when there are writes w/o 
explicit readu.


Come to think of it, I think customizing CSC's MHC s/w was the 1st time 
 ever fought this fight.
Before that, I had always programmed under a standard that demanded a 
EADU before a WRITE.   And every READU needed a LOCKED clause.
cds
On 10/24/2011 6:57 PM, Paul Wilson wrote:
 That little company called CSC does/did not use readu's - they put login id in 
ield 1 and used that for a 'locking' situation.



 
 From: "Woodward, Bob"
 To: U2 Users List
 Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 7:06 PM
 Subject: Re: [U2] [UV] LIST.READU EVERY's "waiters" when there are writes w/o 
xplicit readu.

 Oh I agree!  I was just thinking round-robin that if we're going to talk
 about adding a LOCKED clause to the WRITE statement, matching the
 structure of READU, then we ought to have a WRITEU, too.  Didn't say I
 liked the idea

 -Original Message-
 From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
 [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Mecki
 Foerthmann
 Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 3:30 PM
 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
 Subject: Re: [U2] [UV] LIST.READU EVERY's "waiters" when there are
 writes w/o explicit readu.

 Now why would anybody want to use a WRITE without a READU?
 I can possibly understand that somebody would want to do it with a
 WRITEV (i.e writing a flag on a record) but WRITE?
 And WRITE totally ignoring locking would be outright stupid.

 On 24/10/2011 22:28, Woodward, Bob wrote:
> I would think that because you are not trying to obtain the lock in a
> WRITE statement, it would not be classified as a waiter.  True, it's
> waiting because of the lock but by not trying to obtain the lock, it's
> only waiting for the blockage to clear.  If it were to be classified
 as
> a waiter then I would expect to see a LOCKED clause on the WRITE
> statement like there is on the READU.  For that matter, I'd expect to
> see a WRITEU command as well and the standard WRITE to completely
 ignore
> locking.
>
> Just my guess, though.
>
> BobW
>
> -Original Message-
> From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
> [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Charles
> Stevenson
> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 2:12 PM
> To: U2 Users List
> Subject: [U2] [UV] LIST.READU EVERY's "waiters" when there are writes
> w/o explicit readu.
>
> UV 10.2.10 on Windows is behaving differently from what I recall.
> Are my expectations out of line?
>
> Suppose Session A holds a readu lock; and Session B attempts a WRITE
 to
> same record withOUT!!! 1st explicitly getting the readu lock.
> Session B waits for Session A to release the lock before writing the
> record.
>
> While Session B is waiting,  does it show up as a "waiter" in
 LIST.READU
> EVERY?
> I expected so,  but it doesn't.
>
>
> Session A   Session B
> _   ___
> 1A. ED VOC DUMMY
>(this sets the readu lock.)
>
> 2A. (stay in editor)2B. run this:
> 01:OPEN 'VOC' TO F ELSE
 STOPM
> 'nope'
> 02: ***READU REC FROM F, 'DUMMY'
> ELSE NULL
> 03:WRITE '' TO F, 'DUMMY'
>
> 3A. Within ED:
> XEQ LIST.READU EVERY
>
>
> If I UN-comment line 2, LIST.READU EVERY shows something like this:
>
> Active Read Waiters:  Owner   Waiter
> Device  Inode Userno  Userno
> 746117947232860913  61163396
>
>
> But when I comment out line 2, LIST.READU is silent.
> I have not yet explored what the deadlock daemon does.
>
> TIA,
> cds
>
>
> P.S. Yes, yes, "Bad Form", "Legacy Software", 20 min wait is
> configurable, . . . we can talk later.
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Re: [U2] [UV] LIST.READU EVERY's "waiters" when there are writes w/o explicit readu.

[Wjhonson]

 The answer for which I was looking was that the Locked clause was introduced.
It was not original.

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Paul Wilson 
To: Wjhonson ; u2-users 
Sent: Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:01 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] [UV] LIST.READU EVERY's "waiters" when there are writes w/o 
explicit readu.



Why the 'deadly embrace' issue





From: Wjhonson 
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org; sfr192...@yahoo.com
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 8:42 PM
Subject: Re: [U2] [UV] LIST.READU EVERY's "waiters" when there are writes w/o 
explicit readu.


20 points to anyone who is old enough to remember *why* we couldn't rely on the 
Locked clause.
 



 
-Original Message-
From: Charles Stevenson 
To: Paul Wilson ; U2 Users List 

Sent: Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:28 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] [UV] LIST.READU EVERY's "waiters" when there are writes w/o 
explicit readu.


Come to think of it, I think customizing CSC's MHC s/w was the 1st time 
I ever fought this fight.

Before that, I had always programmed under a standard that demanded a 
READU before a WRITE.   And every READU needed a LOCKED clause.

cds

On 10/24/2011 6:57 PM, Paul Wilson wrote:
> That little company called CSC does/did not use readu's - they put login id 
> in 
field 1 and used that for a 'locking' situation.
>
>
>
> 
> From: "Woodward, Bob"
> To: U2 Users List
> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 7:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [U2] [UV] LIST.READU EVERY's "waiters" when there are writes w/o 
explicit readu.
>
> Oh I agree!  I was just thinking round-robin that if we're going to talk
> about adding a LOCKED clause to the WRITE statement, matching the
> structure of READU, then we ought to have a WRITEU, too.  Didn't say I
> liked the idea
>
> -Original Message-
> From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
> [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Mecki
> Foerthmann
> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 3:30 PM
> To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
> Subject: Re: [U2] [UV] LIST.READU EVERY's "waiters" when there are
> writes w/o explicit readu.
>
> Now why would anybody want to use a WRITE without a READU?
> I can possibly understand that somebody would want to do it with a
> WRITEV (i.e writing a flag on a record) but WRITE?
> And WRITE totally ignoring locking would be outright stupid.
>
> On 24/10/2011 22:28, Woodward, Bob wrote:
>> I would think that because you are not trying to obtain the lock in a
>> WRITE statement, it would not be classified as a waiter.  True, it's
>> waiting because of the lock but by not trying to obtain the lock, it's
>> only waiting for the blockage to clear.  If it were to be classified
> as
>> a waiter then I would expect to see a LOCKED clause on the WRITE
>> statement like there is on the READU.  For that matter, I'd expect to
>> see a WRITEU command as well and the standard WRITE to completely
> ignore
>> locking.
>>
>> Just my guess, though.
>>
>> BobW
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
>> [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Charles
>> Stevenson
>> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 2:12 PM
>> To: U2 Users List
>> Subject: [U2] [UV] LIST.READU EVERY's "waiters" when there are writes
>> w/o explicit readu.
>>
>> UV 10.2.10 on Windows is behaving differently from what I recall.
>> Are my expectations out of line?
>>
>> Suppose Session A holds a readu lock; and Session B attempts a WRITE
> to
>> same record withOUT!!! 1st explicitly getting the readu lock.
>> Session B waits for Session A to release the lock before writing the
>> record.
>>
>> While Session B is waiting,  does it show up as a "waiter" in
> LIST.READU
>> EVERY?
>> I expected so,  but it doesn't.
>>
>>
>> Session A   Session B
>> _   ___
>> 1A. ED VOC DUMMY
>>(this sets the readu lock.)
>>
>> 2A. (stay in editor)2B. run this:
>> 01:OPEN 'VOC' TO F ELSE
> STOPM
>> 'nope'
>> 02: ***READU REC FROM F, 'DUMMY'
>> ELSE NULL
>> 03:WRITE '' TO F, 'DUMMY'
>>
>> 3A. Within ED:
>> XEQ LIST.READU EVERY
>>
>>
>> If I UN-comment line 2, LIST.READU EVERY shows something like this:
>>
>> A

Re: [U2] [UV] LIST.READU EVERY's "waiters" when there are writes w/o explicit readu.

[Wjhonson]

 Deadly Embraces cannot be avoided by use of a LOCKED clause.
That's not what it means.

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Charles Stevenson 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Tue, Oct 25, 2011 6:29 am
Subject: Re: [U2] [UV] LIST.READU EVERY's "waiters" when there are writes w/o 
explicit readu.


Yes.
Today, deadly embraces can be avoided via LOCKED clauses.
In days of yore, Pick's  READU syntax did not allow a LOCKED clause.

BTW, I advocate  2 Programming Standards:
1.  If a lock is taken (READU, RECORDLOCKU, FILELOCK, etc.), a 
LOCKED clause must be present.
2.  A lock must be set explicitly before any update may be attempted.

cds

On 10/24/2011 8:01 PM, Paul Wilson wrote:
> Why the 'deadly embrace' issue
>
> ____
> From: Wjhonson
>
> 20 points to anyone who is old enough to remember *why* we couldn't rely on 
the Locked clause.

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Re: [U2] [UV] LIST.READU EVERY's "waiters" when there are writes w/o explicit readu.

[Wjhonson]

This is deadly embrace

http://knol.google.com/k/will-johnson/deadly-embrace-on-pick-systems/4hmquk6fx4gu/816#view

The Locked clause does not save us from it.  There is no known trivial solution 
to the problem, which troubles all multi-table, multi-user database 
environments.

Perhaps we should start a new thread to discuss various approaches to the issue.
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Re: [U2] [UV] LIST.READU EVERY's "waiters" when there are writes w/o explicit readu.

[Wjhonson]

Your second solution only works if one of the processes is controlled by a 
human.
I've encountered deadly embraces between two phantom routines.

Your first solution works, if we have the luxury of skipping locked records.
Some update routines, don't have that luxury as most accountants will let you 
know quite clearly with loud noises and waving of arms.



-Original Message-
From: Mecki Foerthmann 
To: u2-users 
Sent: Tue, Oct 25, 2011 10:58 am
Subject: Re: [U2] [UV] LIST.READU EVERY's "waiters" when there are writes w/o 
explicit readu.


Oh yes there is a very easy solution.
f you write a mass update process like in your example you skip the 
ecords with a lock and write them to an error log file.
hat way you never end up in a "deadly embrace".
fter you finished the mass update you can then check for skipped 
ecords and update them later.
Or with the LOCKED clause you can let both parties know who is locking 
hom out and resolve the deadlock amicably by getting the sales person 
o exit the sales rep screen and file the customer record in your 
xample. Ideally you should use a subroutine that tells you who is 
ocking you out instead of READUs anyway.
Mecki
On 25/10/2011 18:27, Wjhonson wrote:
 This is deadly embrace

 
http://knol.google.com/k/will-johnson/deadly-embrace-on-pick-systems/4hmquk6fx4gu/816#view

 The Locked clause does not save us from it.  There is no known trivial 
olution to the problem, which troubles all multi-table, multi-user database 
nvironments.

 Perhaps we should start a new thread to discuss various approaches to the 
ssue.
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Re: [U2] [UV] LIST.READU EVERY's "waiters" when there are writes w/o explicit readu.

[Wjhonson]

I know I'll write a phantom to monitor the phantom and write an error log read 
by a third phantom!

I'll be at the top of the matrix in six years!
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Re: [U2] UniBasic Question

[Wjhonson]

And... when you prematurely quit from an execution level which *had* been 
processing a select list your select list is not thrown away.
Which is annoying.

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Re: [U2] [UV] LIST.READU EVERY's "waiters" when there are writes w/o explicit readu.

[Wjhonson]

It's always simple when you are programming for yourself.
Once you start programming for contingencies, exceptions, and PDWT (people 
doing weird things), it's get complicated quickly.



-Original Message-
From: Mecki Foerthmann 
To: u2-users 
Sent: Tue, Oct 25, 2011 1:30 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] [UV] LIST.READU EVERY's "waiters" when there are writes w/o 
explicit readu.


You could do it all in one program and run only one phantom, but of 
ourse you can make it a lot more difficult if you want too.
ISS

n 25/10/2011 20:13, Wjhonson wrote:
 I know I'll write a phantom to monitor the phantom and write an error log read 
y a third phantom!

 I'll be at the top of the matrix in six years!
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Re: [U2] UniBasic Question

[Wjhonson]

Yes yes and no.

If you execute a SSELECT on an indexed field, and don't specify NO.INDEX and do 
NOT refer at all to any other fields in the file, then index does NOT read the 
record to see if it even actually exists.  It just retrieves the list of keys 
from the index.

If you specific a SSELECT on an indexed field and ALSO specify some other field 
criteria, then the select is *supposed* to use the index field FIRST to 
retrieve the list of keys and ONLY THEN read each record to see whether it 
matches the other criteria.  So the "first pass" if you will should be 
lightning fast, but then IF your other criteria makes it traverse the majority 
of the file you are in for big Trouble with a "T" that rhymes with "P" that 
stands for "Pool".

The reason you are in for trouble in this last case, is that traversing the 
majority of the file causes Disk Thrashing which is bad very bad very very bad. 
 It causes this because you are forcing the system to reference the records 
out-of-disk-order.  So it's jumping, jumping, jumping all over the disk in a 
helter skelter summer swelter.

You want to avoid that.
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Re: [U2] UniBasic Question

[Wjhonson]

When you read the index, you are doing a direct read.
When on your second pass you are reading some other field as part of your 
select criteria, you are using the index, which is layed down sequentially, to 
access a non-sequential file, causing thrashing.

In other words, in order to determine if your zip code list also has the 
situation "foreign country" or whatever, you are reading each record, which 
you've picked up quickly from an index, but now you're drilling down to each 
individual record to check this second criteria.  When you do that read, you 
are not doing it, in any manner like the way the records are layed on the disk. 
 That causes thrashing.



-Original Message-
From: Steve Romanow 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Tue, Oct 25, 2011 3:07 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] UniBasic Question


But you are potentially reducing your input set for the 2nd criteria
y a large margin correct?
I've never considered alt key + non-indexed usage to create disk thrash.
When you select on an alternate key index, you are reading the file,
ut (in Udt at least) an X_myfile binary file.  So you are doing a
irect read for the matching keys.  It has no knowledge of the file
ayout.

On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 6:01 PM, Wjhonson  wrote:

 Yes yes and no.

 If you execute a SSELECT on an indexed field, and don't specify NO.INDEX and 
o NOT refer at all to any other fields in the file, then index does NOT read 
he record to see if it even actually exists.  It just retrieves the list of 
eys from the index.

 If you specific a SSELECT on an indexed field and ALSO specify some other 
ield criteria, then the select is *supposed* to use the index field FIRST to 
etrieve the list of keys and ONLY THEN read each record to see whether it 
atches the other criteria.  So the "first pass" if you will should be lightning 
ast, but then IF your other criteria makes it traverse the majority of the file 
ou are in for big Trouble with a "T" that rhymes with "P" that stands for 
Pool".

 The reason you are in for trouble in this last case, is that traversing the 
ajority of the file causes Disk Thrashing which is bad very bad very very bad. 
It causes this because you are forcing the system to reference the records 
ut-of-disk-order.  So it's jumping, jumping, jumping all over the disk in a 
elter skelter summer swelter.

 You want to avoid that.
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Re: [U2] UniBasic Question

[Wjhonson]

I believe that it is incorrect that it will intersect indexes.
I understand that some people think this might be preferable, but I do not 
believe this logic has ever been coded in.



-Original Message-
From: Charles Stevenson 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Tue, Oct 25, 2011 3:08 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] UniBasic Question


RetrieVe will use an index if it can, regardless of the order of the 
election criteria (& if not select list is already active).
etrieVe will now do intersections of index reults if 2 indexed 
election criteria are specified.
'm not sure when or how good it does that.
O.OPTIMIZE can override these attempts by RetrieVe.
O.INDEX will prevent indexes being used.
On 10/25/2011 5:00 PM, Steve Romanow wrote:
 I think we are bike-shedding this now :)

 I seem to recall that if the indexed field is _before_ the non indexed
 field, its benefit is not lost.  I have not looked close at that in a
 long time.

 On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 5:42 PM, Woodward, Bob
   wrote:
> Add a second selection criteria and the benefit of the index is washed
> out.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
> [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Charles
> Stevenson
> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 2:39 PM
> To: U2 Users List
> Subject: Re: [U2] UniBasic Question
>
> True on UV, too.
> Compare output of these using EXPLAIN keyword:
> LIST FILE WITH indexed_field = "soemthing"  EXPLAIN
> LIST FILE WITH indexed_field = "soemthing"  EXPLAIN  NO.INDEX
>
> Or forget EXPLAIN, but do it with a large file and notice the speed
> differnce.
>
> On 10/25/2011 4:29 PM, charles_shaf...@ntn-bower.com wrote:
 I don't know if I agree that SELECT is faster.  If you are using
 indexed fields, SELECT is definitely not the good choice.
>> Are you saying that when there is an index, the system does not need
> to
>> read the record at all?  It just gets the SELECT list from the index?
> Is
>> this only true in Unidata?
>>
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Re: [U2] [UV] LIST.READU EVERY's "waiters" when there are writes w/o explicit readu.

[Wjhonson]

I dont' quite follow that.
Are you stating that if there is no explicit READU that both processes will 
complete without the deadlock deamon?
But if there is explicit READUs in both processes, that one of them will fail 
in 20 minutes?




-Original Message-
From: Charles Stevenson 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Tue, Oct 25, 2011 3:12 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] [UV] LIST.READU EVERY's "waiters" when there are writes w/o 
explicit readu.


On 10/24/2011 4:11 PM, Charles Stevenson wrote:
 --- [snip] ---
 I have not yet explored what the deadlock daemon does.
Deadlock daemon ignores these WRITEs w/o explicit locking before hand.
 ran these 2 pgms simultaneously so that they both tried to lock or 
rite the lock that the other held.
an with lines 6/7 variously commented out or left in.
 W12   W21
01: CRT TIMEDATE(), 'W12'   | CRT TIMEDATE(), 'W21'
2: OPEN 'CDSTMP' TO F ELSE STOP| OPEN 'CDSTMP' TO F ELSE STOP
3: READU REC1 FROM F, 'W1' ELSE NULL   | READU REC2 FROM F, 'W2' ELSE NULL
4: INPUT DUM   | INPUT DUM
5: CRT TIMEDATE():'...':   | CRT TIMEDATE():'...':
6: *** READU REC2 FROM F, W2 ELSE NULL | READU REC1 FROM F, 'W1' ELSE NULL
7: WRITE TIME() TO F, 'W2' | WRITE TIME() TO F, 'W1'
8: CRT TIMEDATE()  | CRT TIMEDATE()

hey invariably entered a deadly embrace, both processes waiting on the 
ther, but the deadlock daemon ignored it if there is no explicit readu.
Instead one of them aborted with a write failure in 20 minutes (the 
efault, but configurable action), then the other then continued happily.

 hope no one but I ever cares about this.
Moral of the story:
Explicitly lock before you update.
cds

n 10/24/2011 4:11 PM, Charles Stevenson wrote:
 UV 10.2.10 on Windows is behaving differently from what I recall.
 Are my expectations out of line?

 Suppose Session A holds a readu lock; and Session B attempts a WRITE 
 to same record withOUT!!! 1st explicitly getting the readu lock.
 Session B waits for Session A to release the lock before writing the 
 record.

 While Session B is waiting,  does it show up as a "waiter" in 
 LIST.READU EVERY?
 I expected so,  but it doesn't.


 Session A   Session B
 _   ___
 1A. ED VOC DUMMY
(this sets the readu lock.)

 2A. (stay in editor)2B. run this:
 01:OPEN 'VOC' TO F ELSE STOPM 
 'nope'
 02: ***READU REC FROM F, 'DUMMY' 
 ELSE NULL
 03:WRITE '' TO F, 'DUMMY'

 3A. Within ED:
 XEQ LIST.READU EVERY


 If I UN-comment line 2, LIST.READU EVERY shows something like this:

 Active Read Waiters:  Owner   Waiter
 Device  Inode Userno  Userno
 746117947232860913  61163396


 But when I comment out line 2, LIST.READU is silent.
 I have not yet explored what the deadlock daemon does.

 TIA,
 cds


 P.S. Yes, yes, "Bad Form", "Legacy Software", 20 min wait is 
 configurable, . . . we can talk later.

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Re: [U2] [UV] LIST.READU EVERY's "waiters" when there are writes w/o explicit readu.

[Wjhonson]

Thanks for that longer explanation, but you can't avoid deadlocks with LOCKED 
clauses.
Maybe what you meant was something like "You can try to think of some strategy 
to deal with them when they occur."




-Original Message-
From: Charles Stevenson 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Tue, Oct 25, 2011 4:15 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] [UV] LIST.READU EVERY's "waiters" when there are writes w/o 
explicit readu.


English is my 1st language, but that doesn't mean I'm good at it.
et me try again.
1. If either (or both) of these have WRITEs without explicit readus 
head of time:
- the deadlock daemon seems to recognize the deadlock.
- If said WRITE command cannot gain a lock within 20 minutes it will 
rror out.  (That is the default behavior, but configurable.)
- So after 20 minutes (one of) the program(s) waiting on such a write 
ill error out allowing the other to get the lock and continue.
2. If both programs have READUs:
- the deadlock deamon sees the condition and kills one of them.
The solution for completely avoiding a deadlock is - as always - to 
roperly deploy LOCKED clauses.

n 10/25/2011 5:29 PM, Wjhonson wrote:
 I dont' quite follow that.
 Are you stating that if there is no explicit READU that both processes will 
omplete without the deadlock deamon?
 But if there is explicit READUs in both processes, that one of them will fail 
n 20 minutes?




 -Original Message-
 From: Charles Stevenson
 To: U2 Users List
 Sent: Tue, Oct 25, 2011 3:12 pm
 Subject: Re: [U2] [UV] LIST.READU EVERY's "waiters" when there are writes w/o 
xplicit readu.


 On 10/24/2011 4:11 PM, Charles Stevenson wrote:
   --- [snip] ---
   I have not yet explored what the deadlock daemon does.
 Deadlock daemon ignores these WRITEs w/o explicit locking before hand.
   ran these 2 pgms simultaneously so that they both tried to lock or
 rite the lock that the other held.
 an with lines 6/7 variously commented out or left in.
   W12   W21
 01: CRT TIMEDATE(), 'W12'   | CRT TIMEDATE(), 'W21'
 2: OPEN 'CDSTMP' TO F ELSE STOP| OPEN 'CDSTMP' TO F ELSE STOP
 3: READU REC1 FROM F, 'W1' ELSE NULL   | READU REC2 FROM F, 'W2' ELSE NULL
 4: INPUT DUM   | INPUT DUM
 5: CRT TIMEDATE():'...':   | CRT TIMEDATE():'...':
 6: *** READU REC2 FROM F, W2 ELSE NULL | READU REC1 FROM F, 'W1' ELSE NULL
 7: WRITE TIME() TO F, 'W2' | WRITE TIME() TO F, 'W1'
 8: CRT TIMEDATE()  | CRT TIMEDATE()

 hey invariably entered a deadly embrace, both processes waiting on the
 ther, but the deadlock daemon ignored it if there is no explicit readu.
 Instead one of them aborted with a write failure in 20 minutes (the
 efault, but configurable action), then the other then continued happily.

   hope no one but I ever cares about this.
 Moral of the story:
  Explicitly lock before you update.
 cds

 n 10/24/2011 4:11 PM, Charles Stevenson wrote:
   UV 10.2.10 on Windows is behaving differently from what I recall.
   Are my expectations out of line?

   Suppose Session A holds a readu lock; and Session B attempts a WRITE
   to same record withOUT!!! 1st explicitly getting the readu lock.
   Session B waits for Session A to release the lock before writing the
   record.

   While Session B is waiting,  does it show up as a "waiter" in
   LIST.READU EVERY?
   I expected so,  but it doesn't.


   Session A   Session B
   _   ___
   1A. ED VOC DUMMY
  (this sets the readu lock.)

   2A. (stay in editor)2B. run this:
   01:OPEN 'VOC' TO F ELSE STOPM
   'nope'
   02: ***READU REC FROM F, 'DUMMY'
   ELSE NULL
   03:WRITE '' TO F, 'DUMMY'

   3A. Within ED:
   XEQ LIST.READU EVERY


   If I UN-comment line 2, LIST.READU EVERY shows something like this:

   Active Read Waiters:  Owner   Waiter
   Device  Inode Userno  Userno
   746117947232860913  61163396


   But when I comment out line 2, LIST.READU is silent.
   I have not yet explored what the deadlock daemon does.

   TIA,
   cds


   P.S. Yes, yes, "Bad Form", "Legacy Software", 20 min wait is
   configurable, . . . we can talk later.

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Re: [U2] [UV] LIST.READU EVERY's "waiters" when there are writes w/o explicit readu.

[Wjhonson]

Your example fails.
You are deliberately returning the user back to the beginning of a program deep 
in progress, or you are assuming we know in advance what locks might be set.

Both of these are bad devices and assumptions.
Are you really going to throw away your order entry clerk's last five minutes 
of typing without so much as a "by your leave" ?
He is going to be very mad at you for that.



-Original Message-
From: Charles Stevenson 
To: U2 Users List 
Cc: Wjhonson 
Sent: Tue, Oct 25, 2011 5:21 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] [UV] LIST.READU EVERY's "waiters" when there are writes w/o 
explicit readu.


Properly programmed locked clauses are exactly the means by which one 
lways avoids deadlocks.
 can think of no example where that would not work, including your 
arlier example.
As an example, I have added LOCKED clauses to the 2 pgms I listed below 
12 & W21.
If you run the original versions and wait for both to get to the prompt 
efore hitting to both,  you can't help but always get a deadlock.
f you run the LOCKED-clause-enabled versions, you can never get a deadlock.
(Forget about the GOTOs.  I wanted to keep it simple to read.  You can 
o the same with LOOP-REPEAT.)
 >CT CDS.BP W12 W21
  W12
001   CRT TIMEDATE(), 'W12'
002   OPEN 'CDSTMP' TO F ELSE STOP
003 RDUS: READU REC1 FROM F, 'W1' LOCKED
004  SLEEP 1 ; * wait a bit
005  GO RDUS
006   END ELSE NULL
007   INPUT DUM
008   CRT TIMEDATE():'...':
009   READU REC2 FROM F, 'W2' LOCKED
010  RELEASE F, 'W1'
011  SLEEP 1 ; * wait a bit
012  GO RDUS
013   END ELSE NULL
014   WRITE TIME() TO F, 'W2'
015   CRT TIMEDATE()
  W21
001   CRT TIMEDATE(), 'W21'
002   OPEN 'CDSTMP' TO F ELSE STOP
003 RDUS: READU REC1 FROM F, 'W2' LOCKED
004  SLEEP 1 ; * wait a bit
005  GO RDUS
006   END ELSE NULL
007   INPUT DUM
008   CRT TIMEDATE():'...':
009   READU REC2 FROM F, 'W1' LOCKED
010  RELEASE F, 'W2'
011  SLEEP 1 ; * wait a bit
012  GO RDUS
013   END ELSE NULL
014   WRITE TIME() TO F, 'W2'
015   CRT TIMEDATE()
On 10/25/2011 6:34 PM, Wjhonson wrote:

 Thanks for that longer explanation, but you can't avoid deadlocks with LOCKED 
lauses.
 Maybe what you meant was something like "You can try to think of some strategy 
o deal with them when they occur."




 -Original Message-
 From: Charles Stevenson
 To: U2 Users List
 Sent: Tue, Oct 25, 2011 4:15 pm
 Subject: Re: [U2] [UV] LIST.READU EVERY's "waiters" when there are writes w/o 
xplicit readu.


 English is my 1st language, but that doesn't mean I'm good at it.
 et me try again.
 1. If either (or both) of these have WRITEs without explicit readus
 head of time:
 - the deadlock daemon seems to recognize the deadlock.
 - If said WRITE command cannot gain a lock within 20 minutes it will
 rror out.  (That is the default behavior, but configurable.)
 - So after 20 minutes (one of) the program(s) waiting on such a write
 ill error out allowing the other to get the lock and continue.
 2. If both programs have READUs:
 - the deadlock deamon sees the condition and kills one of them.
 The solution for completely avoiding a deadlock is - as always - to
 roperly deploy LOCKED clauses.

 n 10/25/2011 5:29 PM, Wjhonson wrote:
   I dont' quite follow that.
   Are you stating that if there is no explicit READU that both processes will
 omplete without the deadlock deamon?
   But if there is explicit READUs in both processes, that one of them will 
ail
 n 20 minutes?




   -Original Message-
   From: Charles Stevenson
   To: U2 Users List
   Sent: Tue, Oct 25, 2011 3:12 pm
   Subject: Re: [U2] [UV] LIST.READU EVERY's "waiters" when there are writes 
/o
 xplicit readu.


   On 10/24/2011 4:11 PM, Charles Stevenson wrote:
 --- [snip] ---
 I have not yet explored what the deadlock daemon does.
   Deadlock daemon ignores these WRITEs w/o explicit locking before hand.
 ran these 2 pgms simultaneously so that they both tried to lock or
   rite the lock that the other held.
   an with lines 6/7 variously commented out or left in.
 W12   W21
   01: CRT TIMEDATE(), 'W12'   | CRT TIMEDATE(), 'W21'
   2: OPEN 'CDSTMP' TO F ELSE STOP| OPEN 'CDSTMP' TO F ELSE STOP
   3: READU REC1 FROM F, 'W1' ELSE NULL   | READU REC2 FROM F, 'W2' ELSE NULL
   4: INPUT DUM   | INPUT DUM
   5: CRT TIMEDATE():'...':   | CRT TIMEDATE():'...':
   6: *** READU REC2 FROM F, W2 ELSE NULL | READU REC1 FROM F, 'W1' ELSE NULL
   7: WRITE TIME() TO F, '

Re: [U2] [UV] LIST.READU EVERY's "waiters" when there are writes w/o explicit readu.

[Wjhonson]

It is not possible to know in advance all the locks you may wish to set.
That's the problem.



-Original Message-
From: Charles Stevenson 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Tue, Oct 25, 2011 5:22 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] [UV] LIST.READU EVERY's "waiters" when there are writes w/o 
explicit readu.


While Will's articledoes give a good, clear example of a deadly embrace, 
nd remediating faulty code is not trivial, the solution is conceptually 
rivial and it is exactly the LOCKED clause that saves us.
If you write new code, deadlocks are easy to prevent.
Testing is non-trivial. It generally requires load or stress testing 
here mutiple processes vie for the same locks.
In a nutshell: you shouldn't begin writing ANY part of a logical 
ransaction until you own ALL necessary locks.  LOCKED clauses help you 
rap cases where you can't get one of those needed locks, allowing you 
o release all other related locks, (freeing up everything so the 
ompeting process can finish its work), then you try again.   No 
eadlocks.  QED.
My problem posed at the start of this thread represents a conceptually 
rivial project but it will include retrofitting this anti-deadlock 
ogic.  Non-trivial hours.  Opportunity costs.  More consistent data!
All MV platforms support this same solution.
If someone else wants to explain it in further detail for the newbies, 
lease, be my guest.
cds
On 10/25/2011 12:27 PM, Wjhonson wrote:
 This is deadly embrace

 
http://knol.google.com/k/will-johnson/deadly-embrace-on-pick-systems/4hmquk6fx4gu/816#view

 The Locked clause does not save us from it.  There is no known trivial 
olution to the problem, which troubles all multi-table, multi-user database 
nvironments.

 Perhaps we should start a new thread to discuss various approaches to the 
ssue.
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Re: [U2] Avoiding deadly embraces

[Wjhonson]

It's not possible to know every lock you may wish to set in advance David, 
that's the problem.
Some locks can be set, but unknown, until the user has done something.
Like in my example where the user changing a field in one record, causes 
another update to be triggered in some other record.
You cannot know that in advance, that is, you cannot determine what the user 
may do next, so you cannot set the lock in advance, but only at-the-time they 
act, which will be after the main lock is set on Record A.

To Asvin, you cannot set locks in the same sequence every time.
This is because, in a sufficiently complex system you will have changes to 
Customer's possibly affecting Orders, Inventory, Payables...
You can then have changes to Inventory possibly affecting Orders, Customers, 
Receivables...
You can then have changes to Receivables, affecting Orders, Customers, 
Inventory...
You can then have changes to Sales Reps affecting Customers, Orders, Payroll...

The route from A to E is not the same as the route from B to G and then back to 
C.

So that's another problem.

It seems like some of you have only ever worked on rather simple systems, built 
by yourselves :)
Try working on systems that have been accreting for twenty years, and built by 
sixteen other programmers over that time period.

There is no simple deterministic way to avoid deadly embraces through code 
alone.



-Original Message-
From: David A. Green 
To: 'U2 Users List' 
Sent: Wed, Oct 26, 2011 6:42 am
Subject: Re: [U2] Avoiding deadly embraces


I find the best practice is to try and lock and read all the necessary
omponents before the first update.  That way if an item we need to update
s we go along is unavailable we catch it up front and don't get "stuck".
r if you have TRANSACTION PROCESSING in place you can just to an ABORT.  
I would also never just READU but do the RECORDLOCK or the READU with the
OCKED clause to be able to control program flow.  You can send messages to
hose users that have the locked items even a text message or email.  If you
re in a nightly batch process then do as another suggested and keep a list
f IDs and try to process them again at the end.  Send an exception report
ia email to the ones in charge.
Set inactivity timeouts on record updates that require user intervention.
t would be awfully sad if Shipping can't ship because a Customer Service
ep was going to update the customers email and then got called away.
Something else that helps, keep the transactional data in a separate file
han the master record.  For instance the Last_Shipped data shouldn't be in
he same record as the Customer's Address and email.  This way the customer
creen can show the data in a "view only" mode with no need to lock the
ecord that the shipping department will need to update to do its job.
David A. Green
480) 813-1725
AG Consulting

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Re: [U2] Avoiding deadly embraces

[Wjhonson]

That's not really relevant to what I said.
It's not a question at all of the *number* of transactions or processes, nor 
how complex the business rules are.
It's much more relevant to the complexity of the history of the software.

That someone would suggest that locks can be set in the same sequence in every 
case, illustrates the communication divide.








-Original Message-
From: Brian Leach 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Wed, Oct 26, 2011 2:47 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] Avoiding deadly embraces


Will - you couldn't be more wrong in your last paragraph. FWIW Knowing Asvin 
and 
he systems he works on I can tell you they are anything but simple - highly 
omplex rules handling many hundreds of concurrent processes and millions of 
ransactions per day... in fact right at the other end of the scale.
Brian
Sent from my ASUS Eee Pad
Wjhonson  wrote:
>
It's not possible to know every lock you may wish to set in advance David, 
hat's the problem.
Some locks can be set, but unknown, until the user has done something.
Like in my example where the user changing a field in one record, causes 
nother update to be triggered in some other record.
You cannot know that in advance, that is, you cannot determine what the user 
ay do next, so you cannot set the lock in advance, but only at-the-time they 
ct, which will be after the main lock is set on Record A.

To Asvin, you cannot set locks in the same sequence every time.
This is because, in a sufficiently complex system you will have changes to 
ustomer's possibly affecting Orders, Inventory, Payables...
You can then have changes to Inventory possibly affecting Orders, Customers, 
eceivables...
You can then have changes to Receivables, affecting Orders, Customers, 
nventory...
You can then have changes to Sales Reps affecting Customers, Orders, Payroll...

The route from A to E is not the same as the route from B to G and then back to 
.

So that's another problem.

It seems like some of you have only ever worked on rather simple systems, built 
y yourselves :)
Try working on systems that have been accreting for twenty years, and built by 
ixteen other programmers over that time period.

There is no simple deterministic way to avoid deadly embraces through code 
lone.



-Original Message-
From: David A. Green 
To: 'U2 Users List' 
Sent: Wed, Oct 26, 2011 6:42 am
Subject: Re: [U2] Avoiding deadly embraces


I find the best practice is to try and lock and read all the necessary
omponents before the first update.  That way if an item we need to update
s we go along is unavailable we catch it up front and don't get "stuck".
r if you have TRANSACTION PROCESSING in place you can just to an ABORT.  
I would also never just READU but do the RECORDLOCK or the READU with the
OCKED clause to be able to control program flow.  You can send messages to
hose users that have the locked items even a text message or email.  If you
re in a nightly batch process then do as another suggested and keep a list
f IDs and try to process them again at the end.  Send an exception report
ia email to the ones in charge.
Set inactivity timeouts on record updates that require user intervention.
t would be awfully sad if Shipping can't ship because a Customer Service
ep was going to update the customers email and then got called away.
Something else that helps, keep the transactional data in a separate file
han the master record.  For instance the Last_Shipped data shouldn't be in
he same record as the Customer's Address and email.  This way the customer
creen can show the data in a "view only" mode with no need to lock the
ecord that the shipping department will need to update to do its job.
David A. Green
480) 813-1725
AG Consulting

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Re: [U2] Avoiding deadly embraces

[Wjhonson]

First explain what you mean, then I can answer it.
How do I do what?



Will wrote:> It seems like some of you have only ever worked on rather simple 
 systems, built by yourselves :)
 Try working on systems that have been accreting for twenty years, 
 and built by sixteen other programmers over that time period.
Asvin wrote: Big grin - how do you do that in internetese?





-Original Message-
From: asvin.dattani 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Thu, Oct 27, 2011 2:36 am
Subject: Re: [U2] Avoiding deadly embraces


> 
 To Asvin, you cannot set locks in the same sequence every time.
 This is because, in a sufficiently complex system you will have 
 changes to Customer's possibly affecting Orders, Inventory, Payables...
 You can then have changes to Inventory possibly affecting Orders, 
 Customers, Receivables...
 You can then have changes to Receivables, affecting Orders, 
 Customers, Inventory...
 You can then have changes to Sales Reps affecting Customers, 
rders,Payroll...
I did say "if you can arrange it" - I understand it may not always be 
ossible. Whenever you get a deadly embrace, examine the two programs 
nvolved and see if you can reorder the READU's. If you can, then that 
ill prevent the problem happening again.
 
 It seems like some of you have only ever worked on rather simple 
 systems, built by yourselves :)
 Try working on systems that have been accreting for twenty years, 
 and built by sixteen other programmers over that time period.
Big grin - how do you do that in internetese?
cheers,
asvin

SBC Bank plc may be solicited in the course of its placement efforts for 
 new issue, by investment clients of the firm for whom the Bank as a firm 
lready provides other services. It may equally decide to allocate to its 
wn proprietary book or with an associate of HSBC Group. This represents a 
otential conflict of interest. HSBC Bank plc has internal arrangements 
esigned to ensure that the firm would give unbiased and full advice to 
he corporate finance client about the valuation and pricing of the 
ffering as well as internal systems, controls and procedures to identify 
nd manage conflicts of interest.
HSBC Bank plc
egistered Office: 8 Canada Square, London E14 5HQ, United Kingdom
egistered in England - Number 14259
uthorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority.
***


AVE PAPER - THINK BEFORE YOU PRINT!
This transmission has been issued by a member of the HSBC Group
HSBC" for the information of the addressee only and should not be
eproduced and/or distributed to any other person. Each page
ttached hereto must be read in conjunction with any disclaimer
hich forms part of it. Unless otherwise stated, this transmission
s neither an offer nor the solicitation of an offer to sell or
urchase any investment. Its contents are based on information
btained from sources believed to be reliable but HSBC makes no
epresentation and accepts no responsibility or liability as to its
ompleteness or accuracy.
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Re: [U2] Avoiding deadly embraces

[Wjhonson]

Means... what.
Obviously I can't read English because I simply don't get what it is at all.
Please explain it at the level of a person with an IQ of 95.



-Original Message-
From: Mecki Foerthmann 
To: u2-users 
Sent: Thu, Oct 27, 2011 10:22 am
Subject: Re: [U2] Avoiding deadly embraces


I think Asvin means this ;D
On 27/10/2011 17:33, Wjhonson wrote:
 First explain what you mean, then I can answer it.
 How do I do what?



 Will wrote:>  It seems like some of you have only ever worked on rather simple
   systems, built by yourselves :)
   Try working on systems that have been accreting for twenty years,
   and built by sixteen other programmers over that time period.
 Asvin wrote: Big grin - how do you do that in internetese?





 -Original Message-
 From: asvin.dattani
 To: U2 Users List
 Sent: Thu, Oct 27, 2011 2:36 am
 Subject: Re: [U2] Avoiding deadly embraces


   To Asvin, you cannot set locks in the same sequence every time.
   This is because, in a sufficiently complex system you will have
   changes to Customer's possibly affecting Orders, Inventory, Payables...
   You can then have changes to Inventory possibly affecting Orders,
   Customers, Receivables...
   You can then have changes to Receivables, affecting Orders,
   Customers, Inventory...
   You can then have changes to Sales Reps affecting Customers,
 rders,Payroll...
 I did say "if you can arrange it" - I understand it may not always be
 ossible. Whenever you get a deadly embrace, examine the two programs
 nvolved and see if you can reorder the READU's. If you can, then that
 ill prevent the problem happening again.

   It seems like some of you have only ever worked on rather simple
   systems, built by yourselves :)
   Try working on systems that have been accreting for twenty years,
   and built by sixteen other programmers over that time period.
 Big grin - how do you do that in internetese?
 cheers,
 asvin
 
 SBC Bank plc may be solicited in the course of its placement efforts for
   new issue, by investment clients of the firm for whom the Bank as a firm
 lready provides other services. It may equally decide to allocate to its
 wn proprietary book or with an associate of HSBC Group. This represents a
 otential conflict of interest. HSBC Bank plc has internal arrangements
 esigned to ensure that the firm would give unbiased and full advice to
 he corporate finance client about the valuation and pricing of the
 ffering as well as internal systems, controls and procedures to identify
 nd manage conflicts of interest.
 HSBC Bank plc
 egistered Office: 8 Canada Square, London E14 5HQ, United Kingdom
 egistered in England - Number 14259
 uthorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority.
 ***

 
 AVE PAPER - THINK BEFORE YOU PRINT!
 This transmission has been issued by a member of the HSBC Group
 HSBC" for the information of the addressee only and should not be
 eproduced and/or distributed to any other person. Each page
 ttached hereto must be read in conjunction with any disclaimer
 hich forms part of it. Unless otherwise stated, this transmission
 s neither an offer nor the solicitation of an offer to sell or
 urchase any investment. Its contents are based on information
 btained from sources believed to be reliable but HSBC makes no
 epresentation and accepts no responsibility or liability as to its
 ompleteness or accuracy.
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Re: [U2] OPENSEQ and the LOCKED Option

[Wjhonson]

Please provide the exact source, and the exact compilation error message




-Original Message-
From: Al DeWitt 
To: u2-users 
Sent: Fri, Oct 28, 2011 2:21 pm
Subject: [U2] OPENSEQ and the LOCKED Option


Unidata 7.1.20 ECLTYPE P
 
Whenever I try to include the LOCKED option in the OPENSEQ statement my
est program does not compile.  If I leave it out it does compile.
 
When two users run this program one executes the OPENSEQ command and the
ther appears hung...no message, nothing.  When the first user closes
he file the second user continues on.
 
Since LOCKED appeared to allow me to tell the other users that the file
s locked and not to give up hope what do you folks do to get around
his dilemma?
 
Thanks.
 
Al
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Re: [U2] Using 'MATCH'

[Wjhonson]

Does Matches recognize comma as a delimiter? I don't think it does.

IF NOT(X.STRING) MATCH X.CODE THEN   X.STRING<1,-1> = X.CODE



-Original Message-
From: Greg Coelho 
To: u2-users 
Sent: Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:37 am
Subject: Re: [U2] Using 'MATCH'


Hey Guys,
I am concatenating an alpha code into a string providing that the code 
oes not already exist (in the string).  If my existing string = X.STRING 
nd my code = X.CODE should the following work?
IF X.STRING MATCH X.CODE THEN
ND ELSE
 X.STRING = X.STRING:',':X.CODE
ND
Thanks!
Greg
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Re: [U2] Using 'MATCH'

[Wjhonson]

If there is a need to extrude the result comma-delimited then

IF NOT(X.STRING) MATCH X.CODE THEN   X.STRING<1,-1> = X.CODE
CONVERT "," TO @VM IN X.STRING


-Original Message-
From: George Gallen 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Mon, Oct 31, 2011 11:47 am
Subject: Re: [U2] Using 'MATCH'


How about?
LOCATE X.CODE IN CHANGE(X.STRING,",",CHAR(254)) SETTING POS ELSE 
.STRING=X.STRING:",":X.CODE
Or 
LOCATE X.CODE IN CHANGE(X.STRING,",",CHAR(254))<1> SETTING POS ELSE 
.STRING=X.STRING:",":X.CODE

epending on which UV Flavor your running
-Original Message-
rom: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org 
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] 
n Behalf Of Wjhonson
ent: Monday, October 31, 2011 1:43 PM
o: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
ubject: Re: [U2] Using 'MATCH'

oes Matches recognize comma as a delimiter? I don't think it does.
IF NOT(X.STRING) MATCH X.CODE THEN   X.STRING<1,-1> = X.CODE

-Original Message-
rom: Greg Coelho 
o: u2-users 
ent: Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:37 am
ubject: Re: [U2] Using 'MATCH'

ey Guys,
 am concatenating an alpha code into a string providing that the code 
es not already exist (in the string).  If my existing string = X.STRING 
d my code = X.CODE should the following work?
F X.STRING MATCH X.CODE THEN
D ELSE
X.STRING = X.STRING:',':X.CODE
D
hanks!
reg
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Re: [U2] Using 'MATCH'

[Wjhonson]

Oops!  Recte

CONVERT @VM TO "," IN X.STRING





-Original Message-----
From: Wjhonson 
To: u2-users 
Sent: Mon, Oct 31, 2011 11:50 am
Subject: Re: [U2] Using 'MATCH'



f there is a need to extrude the result comma-delimited then
IF NOT(X.STRING) MATCH X.CODE THEN   X.STRING<1,-1> = X.CODE
ONVERT "," TO @VM IN X.STRING


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Re: [U2] Using 'MATCH'

[Wjhonson]

Match *can* navigate a delimiter.
It navigates the multi-value delimiter @VM
That's the only one it can navigate, but why not use it if it's there ?
To me using Match makes the code clear.
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Re: [U2] Using 'MATCH'

[Wjhonson]

Your syntax is backward George its not IF Y MATCH "HELLO"
its
IF "HELLO" MATCH Y










-Original Message-
From: George Gallen 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:10 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] Using 'MATCH'


Is it flavor dependent?
I tried it under Information flavor :
0001: Y="HELLO"
002: Y<1,-1>="THERE"
003: IF Y MATCH "HELLO" THEN PRINT "YES" ELSE PRINT "NO"
004: STOP
005: END
I got "NO", unless I set it up incorrectly - could be...I never used for this 
urpose before.
George
-Original Message-
rom: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org 
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] 
n Behalf Of Wjhonson
ent: Monday, October 31, 2011 4:47 PM
o: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
ubject: Re: [U2] Using 'MATCH'

atch *can* navigate a delimiter.
t navigates the multi-value delimiter @VM
hat's the only one it can navigate, but why not use it if it's there ?
o me using Match makes the code clear.
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Re: [U2] Suggestions for flattening Multivalues...

[Wjhonson]

Welcome to Hell!




-Original Message-
From: George Gallen 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Wed, Nov 9, 2011 10:57 am
Subject: Re: [U2] Suggestions for flattening Multivalues...


I was looking more for ideas on how to setup the database structure to handle 
he 1:n other than the
Sidebar tables joined to the master table.
Right now, the scope of the data being moved off is fairly small, I didn't want 
o involve any other apps
 The querying app would be custom in itself (most likely php or something) 
Just this one file we are moving contains about 20 different multivalued 
fields, 
nd it seemed a little
verkill to have to create 21 tables to contain the data in a form MySQL can 
andle. I guess that what
appens when you've been raised on multivalue database structure, and are forced 
o work with one that
oes not handle it natively!
-Original Message-
rom: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org 
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] 
n Behalf Of Steve Romanow
ent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 1:41 PM
o: U2 Users List
ubject: Re: [U2] Suggestions for flattening Multivalues...
It might be worth doing some of this work with an ORM (Object Relation
apper).  Almost all higher level languages have them.  Once you get
hings configured, the messiness of the joins is hidden behind
yntactic sugar.
Here is a comparison of a lot of them from wikipedia.
ttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_object-relational_mapping_software
SQLAlchemy is a market leader for python.  If you are a microsoft
hop, I understand LINQ us really nice.
ttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_Integrated_Query#LINQ_to_SQL
On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 1:34 PM, George Gallen  wrote:
 I'm in the process of creating/updating a MySQL database for external 
pplications to analyze some of the data.

 My initial method of dealing with a multivalued field, is to create it's own 
able, keyed to the master table (1:n)
 But this gets a little tedious if you have a bunch of multivalued fields - and 
reates really bulky SQL statements with all the joins.

 What other ways are people using to work with 1:n relationships?
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Re: [U2] [semi-ot] JE Sisk basic book on the eBay

[Wjhonson]

http://knol.google.com/k/fft2001/books-on-the-pick-operating-system/mbasj7lzroyk/32#

Books for sale on the Pick Operating System




-Original Message-
From: Daniel McGrath 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Wed, Nov 9, 2011 12:46 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] [semi-ot] JE Sisk basic book on the eBay


"This listing has been removed"
Dan McGrath
2 Product Manager
ocket Software
600 S. Ulster Street **Suite 1100 **Denver, CO 80237 * USA
el: +1.720.475.8098 * Fax: +1.617.630.7392
mail: dmcgr...@rs.com 
eb: www.rocketsoftware.com/u2 
-Original Message-
rom: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org 
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] 
n Behalf Of Allen E. Elwood
ent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 1:38 PM
o: 'U2 Users List'
ubject: [U2] [semi-ot] JE Sisk basic book on the eBay

nyone need/want the original JES pick basic book, here's your chance to pick it 
p for a mere $10 spot, give or take a few cents.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pick-Basic-Programmers-Guide-The-Pick-library-/30056
645053?pt=US_Nonfiction_Book&hash=item45fb0c84bd
Not affiliated
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Re: [U2] Old tricks for old dogs

[Wjhonson]

TOTAL.PAGES = KEY.COUNT/5 ; IF INT(TOTAL.PAGES)#TOTAL.PAGES THEN TOTAL.PAGES = 
INT(TOTAL.PAGES)+1

is equivalent to

TOTAL.PAGES = INT((KEY.COUNT-1)/5) + 1

Or how to page and avoid a final blank page logic
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Re: [U2] U2 - Universe - Sage MAS90 - Experiences?

[Wjhonson]

 He means today.
Instead of switching your AR to this system, convince them to switch their AP 
BACK to Pick.


 

 

-Original Message-
From: John Thompson 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Fri, Nov 11, 2011 5:01 am
Subject: Re: [U2] U2 - Universe - Sage MAS90 - Experiences?


Yes... however, people that know MV weren't making the decision at the
time.  If you know how that goes...

On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 9:12 PM, Ross Ferris  wrote:

> Perhaps it would be "better" to find a replacement for the AP that had a
> decent AR module as well that runs on u2 :-)
>
> Ross Ferris
> Stamina Software
> Visage > Better by Design!
>
> -Original Message-
> From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:
> u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of John Thompson
> Sent: Friday, 11 November 2011 12:21 AM
> To: U2 Users List
> Subject: [U2] U2 - Universe - Sage MAS90 - Experiences?
>
> So I'm in a situation, probably not unlike some of you have found
> yourselves in before.
>
> Our financial department was unhappy with the Accounts Payable system some
> years back when we were on Ultimate Plus.
> They purchased an Accounting Package called Sage MAS 90 to run the
> payables piece and we just dumped data to it every night, etc.
>
> Of course, since then, we have long moved to Universe.
> In that time, we've known some of the Accounts Receivable apps are
> outdated, but, its just been one of those projects in the heap.
> And of course priorities seem to always change.
>
> Lately, management hopes that they can use the A/R module of Sage MAS 90.
> However, our POS is still a set of BASIC programs communicating directly
> with Universe.
> In my mind, I would think real time communication between the two would be
> essential.
> We are a wholesale auto parts business, and when a customer calls for a
> part, or orders online, our people need to know whether they have credit
> with us or not.  So the credit balances being on another system, and being
> a day behind would not work.
>
> I'm told that Sage MAS 90 uses Providex as a database, and some newer
> versions use SQL Server- for an extra fee of course.
>
> I'm fairly ignorant of the Sage software...
>
> Has anyone done any kind of integration like this, where you have made U2
> talk to a Sage MAS 90 server in real time for Accounts Receivable purposes?
> Or do you know of anyone who knows Sage MAS 90, because our current
> consultant, seems to be clueless?
>
>
> --
> John Thompson
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Re: [U2] Simplify, or why mathematicians make better programmers

[Wjhonson]

COL = (79-LEN(SITE.NAME)*2+1)/2

Is it just me, or are there people out there who really don't get math ?
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Re: [U2] Simplify, or why mathematicians make better programmers

[Wjhonson]

Right in my snippet it's just 40-Len(x)
But the original programmer couldn't see that deeply.




-Original Message-
From: George Gallen 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Mon, Nov 14, 2011 11:43 am
Subject: Re: [U2] Simplify, or why mathematicians make better programmers


Actually, the INT wouldn't be needed.
I'm guessing that the +1 was to make the 79 even
nything*2 will be even
So and even# (80) - and even# (*2) / 2 will always be even , no int needed.
-Original Message-
rom: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org 
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] 
n Behalf Of Charlie Noah
ent: Monday, November 14, 2011 2:41 PM
o: U2 Users List
ubject: Re: [U2] Simplify, or why mathematicians make better programmers
Actually, it needs more than simplification - the result it returns is 
lose, but not exactly right. I use
OL = INT((79 - LEN(SITE.NAME)) / 2), which, if LEN(SITE.NAME) = 10, is 
4. The exact position would be 34.5, but that half a column is tough to 
o (hence the INT). The original code snippet returned 30.
Charlie
On 11-14-2011 1:19 PM, George Gallen wrote:
 I'm guessing it started out simpler, and extra steps were added to make 
lignment corrections,
 And nobody bothered to simplify.

 -Original Message-
 From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org 
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] 
n Behalf Of Wjhonson
 Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 1:59 PM
 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
 Subject: Re: [U2] Simplify, or why mathematicians make better programmers


 COL = (79-LEN(SITE.NAME)*2+1)/2

 Is it just me, or are there people out there who really don't get math ?
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Re: [U2] [UV] Suppress "not found" in RetrieVe

[Wjhonson]

I think he means as in

SELECT VOC SAMPLE 100
LIST CUSTOMER
'A' not found
'F2' not found


And I don't know a way to suppress the messages, but I know a way to not GET 
the messages :)
Try this

SELECT VOC SAMPLE 100
SELECT CUSTOMER
do other selects or other processing now and you won't get that message




-Original Message-
From: John Thompson 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Tue, Nov 15, 2011 10:57 am
Subject: Re: [U2] [UV] Suppress "not found" in RetrieVe


Do you mean on a SELECT or LIST?  (Maybe I'm asking the obvious)
On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 1:43 PM, Perry Taylor wrote:
> Does anyone know of a RetrieVe option that will suppress the '"" not
 found' messages?

 Thanks.

 Perry

 Perry Taylor
 Senior MV Architect
 ZirMed
 888 West Market Street, Suite 400
 Louisville, KY 40202
 www.zirmed.com



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[U2] Code Collaboration

[Wjhonson]

The PickWiki is a place where code can be published, but I haven't seen even 
one case where code has been taken, enhanced, and put back.
So it doesn't appear to be a good place for collaboration.

If people however post code snippets here, or at comp.databases.pick there will 
be remarks and modifications within hours.

Attempts at making Pick code collaboration projects have been mostly 
unsuccessful.  Why?
How can we create a true collaborative project and Would Anyone Come ?
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Re: [U2] Code Collaboration

[Wjhonson]

Yes but would people come.
That's the other side of the ticket.
PickWiki gets an incredibly low rate of change, much less than a change per 
week.  There are hundreds of programmers on this list, who read responses every 
day.



-Original Message-
From: Steve Romanow 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Wed, Nov 16, 2011 11:10 am
Subject: Re: [U2] Code Collaboration


Github, SF.net, Bitbucket, etc are setup to allow team collaboration.
or each project there are issue trackers, wiki, code browsing, etc.
On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 2:02 PM, John Thompson  wrote:
 Ya know what I think the real problem is...

 Most of us have about 100 irons in the fire, and, we would all love to
 maintain/contribute, but, every time we start something, we realize, "Oh
 crap,
 someone has to administer that"  Then once the poor soul administering it,
 gets busy, misses a few requests, etc... then the people contributing say,
 "Oh well, that must not be maintained anymore, or that guy/gal must be
 busy."

 I think we can create something, the real problem is, finding folks with
 enough
 time/motivation/drive, etc. to monitor/maintain/administer it.
 Contributing is the easy part.
 Organizing, documenting, and making it presentable is the hard part.

 On top of that most programmers/technicians, are sucky documenters, or would
 rather not document at all, OR, they assume that you are as smart as they
 are,
 or were when they wrote something.

 So I'm for it, and I could devote some time to it here and there...
 But, we have to overcome the challenges I mentioned.

 Thats my two cents.

 On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 1:32 PM, Wjhonson  wrote:

>
> The PickWiki is a place where code can be published, but I haven't seen
> even one case where code has been taken, enhanced, and put back.
> So it doesn't appear to be a good place for collaboration.
>
> If people however post code snippets here, or at comp.databases.pick there
> will be remarks and modifications within hours.
>
> Attempts at making Pick code collaboration projects have been mostly
> unsuccessful.  Why?
> How can we create a true collaborative project and Would Anyone Come ?
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Re: [U2] Code Collaboration

[Wjhonson]

You don't believe in group collaboration?
I always install code onto systems of which I work.  I never get permission 
from the vendor.
I'd never even thought of asking any vendor for permission.
My tools are for me to do my work, not for them to permit me to do it.

My client is the end user, not the vendor.







-Original Message-
From: DavidJMurray (mvdbs.com) 
To: u2-users 
Sent: Wed, Nov 16, 2011 11:44 am
Subject: Re: [U2] Code Collaboration



PICK is a highly proprietary database development environment which is SOLD
o VAR's.
Therefore, it is not much of a hobbyists tool for development. Therefore,
ssuming that most programmers are employed by a company, who owns the code
nyway?
Nor is it an open source development environment, as an application is
eally meant to have the database embedded. Rather difficult to achieve to
hen you can't even get a RRP on a license. And would a VAR really want some
dd-ball software installed into THEIR products embedded database?
What actually is missing and would be of significant interest (to me) and
elp is a list of design and analysis patterns. These already exist for
ther environments via books and websites. And there has been periodically
iscussions here on the best way to generally do things e.g. processing
ists via removing items from the front of the list.
But, this really should be a Rocket Software initiated process as it is
HEIR product and it adds value for all.
...2 cents worth...

WJhonson wrote:
 
 
 Attempts at making Pick code collaboration projects have been mostly
 unsuccessful.  Why?
 How can we create a true collaborative project and Would Anyone Come ?
 
 


Learn and Do
xcel and Share

ttp://mvdbs.com http://mvdbs.com 
- 
iew this message in context: 
http://old.nabble.com/Code-Collaboration-tp32856673p32857145.html
ent from the U2 - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [U2] Code Collaboration

[Wjhonson]

That license does not mean "production of code"
Rather it means "a production environment" meaning "in use by an end user who 
isn't a developer"

Of course developers can use the PE to develop code, that's the very point of 
making it free to developers.








-Original Message-
From: DavidJMurray (mvdbs.com) 
To: u2-users 
Sent: Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:24 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] Code Collaboration



The contractual obligations between a employee, contractor and software
endor differ.
I always abide by the contractual obligations.
I have no issues with group collaborations. But I would not use U2 or a PICK
erivative for such a project as I can not legally obtain a licensed copy of
2 (not that I have contacted Rocket to purchase a license). The Personal
ditions have a strict license which does not include production; which I
ould have thought that a group collaboration project would full under.

WJhonson wrote:
 
 
 You don't believe in group collaboration?
 
 My client is the end user, not the vendor.
 
 


Learn and Do
xcel and Share

ttp://mvdbs.com http://mvdbs.com 
- 
iew this message in context: 
http://old.nabble.com/Code-Collaboration-tp32856673p32857388.html
ent from the U2 - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [U2] Code Collaboration

[Wjhonson]

Personal Development
means
developing code yourself.

It doesn't mean achieving a higher state of conciousness.
Although some may argue they are the same thing.




-Original Message-
From: DavidJMurray (mvdbs.com) 
To: u2-users 
Sent: Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:42 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] Code Collaboration



Then Rocket should change the licensing info on their web site:
This edition is designed for single-user personal development and training
s well as sales demos. It is not for remarketing or use in production
nvironments.
I take 'personal development' as self-training.
What you say contradicts the above.

aniel McGrath wrote:
 
 
 Prior to joining Rocket, that is exactly what I did to open-source a
 cut-down version of a code coverage tool I had written:
 http://sourceforge.net/projects/ucov/. There is no reason why developers
 could not work on this code using the PE editions of the databases.
 
 Regards,
 
 Dan McGrath
 U2 Product Manager
 Rocket Software
 4600 S. Ulster Street **Suite 1100 **Denver, CO 80237 * USA
 Tel: +1.720.475.8098 * Fax: +1.617.630.7392
 Email: dmcgr...@rs.com 
 Web: www.rocketsoftware.com/u2 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
 [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of DavidJMurray
 (mvdbs.com)
 Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 1:24 PM
 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
 Subject: Re: [U2] Code Collaboration
 
 
 
 The contractual obligations between a employee, contractor and software
 vendor differ.
 
 I always abide by the contractual obligations.
 
 I have no issues with group collaborations. But I would not use U2 or a
 PICK derivative for such a project as I can not legally obtain a licensed
 copy of
 U2 (not that I have contacted Rocket to purchase a license). The Personal
 Editions have a strict license which does not include production; which I
 would have thought that a group collaboration project would full under.
 
 
 
 WJhonson wrote:
> 
> 
> You don't believe in group collaboration?
> 
> My client is the end user, not the vendor.
> 
> 
 
 
 -
 
 Learn and Do
 Excel and Share
 
 
 http://mvdbs.com http://mvdbs.com
 --
 View this message in context:
 http://old.nabble.com/Code-Collaboration-tp32856673p32857388.html
 Sent from the U2 - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
 
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Learn and Do
xcel and Share

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- 
iew this message in context: 
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ent from the U2 - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [U2] Code Collaboration

[Wjhonson]

Okay so that's everything that doesn't work.
Is there another step forward?




-Original Message-
From: Wols Lists 
To: u2-users 
Sent: Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:39 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] Code Collaboration


On 16/11/11 18:32, Wjhonson wrote:

 The PickWiki is a place where code can be published, but I haven't seen even 
ne case where code has been taken, enhanced, and put back.
 So it doesn't appear to be a good place for collaboration.

ell, I've both improved other peoples' code, and had others improve mine...
BUT.
Pickwiki tends to be a place where people dump proven code that other 
eople can use. Much of my code I've posted doesn't NEED improvement, 
ecause it had been in production for a while before being posted. The 
ugs and stuff had been ironed out.
> If people however post code snippets here, or at comp.databases.pick there 
ill be remarks and modifications within hours.

ell, if people post code asking for help, then other people are eager 
o dive in :-)
> Attempts at making Pick code collaboration projects have been mostly 
nsuccessful.  Why?
 How can we create a true collaborative project and Would Anyone Come ?
First thing to do - don't try to force a round peg into a square hole. 
ickwiki is a dumping ground for mature code. The u2 list and cdp are 
sed as a help forum. Neither is suited for or the right place for a 
ollaborative code project.
Cheers,
ol
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Re: [U2] Code Collaboration

[Wjhonson]

Personally I respond more immediately when something comes at me.
Would it not be possible to set up a mailing list for any changes to Incubator 
code?  So all users on that list get emailed when a change is made?
I think this would propel both use of the code, and misuse enhancement.



-Original Message-
From: Brian Leach 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Thu, Nov 17, 2011 2:55 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] Code Collaboration


Mecki
Thats why the board launched the Incubator project early this year. The intent 
s for this to become a repository of useful working examples of using the 
echnology. But I don't have the time to write those all myself and we have been 
rying to pursuade the community to get involved.
Brian
ent from my ASUS Eee Pad
Mecki Foerthmann  wrote:
>I think a major problem is the lack of training/documentation.
Great that there are all these new possibilities, but if you have to 
figure everything out yourself it becomes very difficult to keep up with 
the technology.
A lot of VARs (especially ours) are no help if you get the feeling they 
know even less then you do.
It is very frustrating if the business asks, 'can we do that?' and you 
can only answer, 'yes, I know it's possible but I don't know how to make 
it work.'
And how am I to show the young guys all the flash things I have seen in 
demos or heard about here if I can't get them to work myself?

On 17/11/2011 20:55, David Jordan wrote:
> The U2UG board has been discussing with Rocket how to encourage excitement 
hat U2 is not legacy but is a technology leader.  I was at a presentation of a 
2 VAR and they demonstrated product that would be indistinguishable from any 
ther player in open systems, Service architecture, interoperability, web 
ntefaces, etc.  How do we get this across to the market.
>
> With collaboration, we need to first excite.   How do we excite people in U2 
echnology.   Is it looking at a major enhancement of the BASIC programming 
anguage or a new one within U2.  What other things do we look at.
>
> Currently young programmers are excited by web technology's, mobile apps, the 
exy stuff.  They are not interested in the backend, whether Oracle RDBMS, SQL 
erver or U2.  This is a problem across the industry.
>
> The board of the user group are interested in areas to look at and how to 
reate infrastructure to make this happen.   If we can reignite excitement in 
he product and create a place for collaboration where that excitement can be 
ut to good use then I believe we can achieve success.  However our success 
epends on a group of people not a few individuals.   If this is to occur, it is 
ime for people to become involved in shaping a future.
>
> Regards
> David Jordan
> VP U2UG
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> U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org
> http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
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Re: [U2] Code Collaboration

[Wjhonson]

As the OP, I like the idea of a wiki, provided it can either use straight HTML, 
use MediaWiki markup (which is slightly different), or use a WYSIWIG like 
sites.google.com or pbwiki uses.  I find that only a few of these have gained 
sufficient traction that most gearheads know how to use them, the other 
competitors are just more headaches.

Make it searchable.  Sure.  I assume that any web pages are searchable.  You 
have to actively make something not searchable AFAIK.

Useful examples - hopefully.  Make sense to everyone - probably not as 
possible.  But anything that doesn't make sense, you'd be able to markup

I didn't address docs, but sure why not.

Collaborate - that's the main point of my message really.  To find a way to 
collaborate that is more immediate, and more used that PickWiki which seems 
very cob-webby to me.



-Original Message-
From: John Thompson 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:46 am
Subject: Re: [U2] Code Collaboration


So, I thought what the original poster was getting at was:
1) Create a documentation/wiki/example site
) Make it searchable
) Have useful examples that make sense to everyone
) Also post the vendor/var docs
) Collaborate on ideas (like we do here)
Maybe you guys are talking about something else...
Github, svn, cvs, PRC and all those are great tools, but, they probably
ren't going to create the "Wikipedia" of the MV world.
The above can be done, but, it needs to become a living/breathing thing
hat gets updated a lot, otherwise, folks won't use it.  Hence the
hallenge- making it a living/breathing thing.
I know this kind of thing has been tried, and is being tried... but there
robably isn't enough flag waving and marketing to keep it going.
Or people create something, and try to make it subscription based, which in
his day and time is never going to work with something like the above.
Some of the things I know about are:
http://www.nuwiki.com/cgi-bin/nuwiki.cgi?home&project=nuwiki
ttp://www.keyally.com/prdb/universe/basic_tree_all.html
ttp://www.pickwiki.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl
Anyway, I'd like to help with something like that.  I'm just not sure at my
tage in life, that I have the time to spearhead it and become the chief
Architect" of something like that.

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 6:05 PM, Wjhonson  wrote:
>
 Personally I respond more immediately when something comes at me.
 Would it not be possible to set up a mailing list for any changes to
 Incubator code?  So all users on that list get emailed when a change is
 made?
 I think this would propel both use of the code, and misuse
 enhancement.



 -Original Message-
 From: Brian Leach 
 To: U2 Users List 
 Sent: Thu, Nov 17, 2011 2:55 pm
 Subject: Re: [U2] Code Collaboration


 Mecki
 Thats why the board launched the Incubator project early this year. The
 intent
 s for this to become a repository of useful working examples of using the
 echnology. But I don't have the time to write those all myself and we have
 been
 rying to pursuade the community to get involved.
 Brian
 ent from my ASUS Eee Pad
 Mecki Foerthmann  wrote:
 >I think a major problem is the lack of training/documentation.
 Great that there are all these new possibilities, but if you have to
 figure everything out yourself it becomes very difficult to keep up with
 the technology.
 A lot of VARs (especially ours) are no help if you get the feeling they
 know even less then you do.
 It is very frustrating if the business asks, 'can we do that?' and you
 can only answer, 'yes, I know it's possible but I don't know how to make
 it work.'
 And how am I to show the young guys all the flash things I have seen in
 demos or heard about here if I can't get them to work myself?

 On 17/11/2011 20:55, David Jordan wrote:
 > The U2UG board has been discussing with Rocket how to encourage
 excitement
 hat U2 is not legacy but is a technology leader.  I was at a presentation
 of a
 2 VAR and they demonstrated product that would be indistinguishable from
 any
 ther player in open systems, Service architecture, interoperability, web
 ntefaces, etc.  How do we get this across to the market.
 >
 > With collaboration, we need to first excite.   How do we excite people
 in U2
 echnology.   Is it looking at a major enhancement of the BASIC programming
 anguage or a new one within U2.  What other things do we look at.
 >
 > Currently young programmers are excited by web technology's, mobile
 apps, the
 exy stuff.  They are not interested in the backend, whether Oracle RDBMS,
 SQL
 erver or U2.  This is a problem across the industry.
 >
 > The board of the user group are interested in areas to look at and how to
 reate infrastructure to make this happen.   If we can reignite excitement
 in
 he product and create a place for collaboration where that excitement can
 be
 ut to good use then I believe we can ac

Re: [U2] Code Collaboration

[Wjhonson]

I will only be involved if there is a way to subscribe to changes, so they come 
at me, instead of me needing to go to them.



-Original Message-
From: Daniel McGrath 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:39 am
Subject: Re: [U2] Code Collaboration


I will personally pay for a business bronze github subscription to help set 
this 
p.
We need a small handful of people who are willing to work with setting this up 
roperly as well as people who already have tools worthy of being shared to 
mail those people either permission to them in the repository.
Steve & Will, would you be willing to be involved? Anyone who is can email me @ 
anmcg...@gmail.com and I will set it up this weekend then email out the 
nformation to get this started.
Once people are committed we can work out appropriate licensing info, etc.
Regards,
an
-Original Message-
rom: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org 
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] 
n Behalf Of Steve Romanow
ent: Friday, November 18, 2011 10:16 AM
o: U2 Users List
ubject: Re: [U2] Code Collaboration
In order to realize this vision, does every solution have to be implemented in 
ICK?
If the goal is to "make our development tasks more efficient" it is making sure 
he labor that one of us puts in is not reproduced by another, i.e. Pick syntax 
iles for various tools.
The "collaboration point" whether it is pickwiki or another, does not have to 
ost the code, but pointers to the places where the resource can be maintained 
roperly.
An example is the MAKEXML program on the wiki.  I have used that many times and 
 seriously appreciate ECL and KRJ for making it available.
s it perfect, not really, every time I use it, I get the docstring twice.  The 
iki is not the way to communicate that it needs a patch.
f I did (which I should) fix my copy, who do I communicate it to?  We also need 
o let people know under what license we post the code under.  Can I put MAKEXML 
p on my github and patch it, giving attribution to ECL and KRJ?

On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 12:04 PM, Wjhonson  wrote:

 As the OP, I like the idea of a wiki, provided it can either use straight 
TML, use MediaWiki markup (which is slightly different), or use a WYSIWIG like 
ites.google.com or pbwiki uses.  I find that only a few of these have gained 
ufficient traction that most gearheads know how to use them, the other 
ompetitors are just more headaches.

 Make it searchable.  Sure.  I assume that any web pages are searchable.  You 
ave to actively make something not searchable AFAIK.

 Useful examples - hopefully.  Make sense to everyone - probably not as 
 possible.  But anything that doesn't make sense, you'd be able to 
 markup

 I didn't address docs, but sure why not.

 Collaborate - that's the main point of my message really.  To find a way to 
ollaborate that is more immediate, and more used that PickWiki which seems very 
ob-webby to me.



 -Original Message-
 From: John Thompson 
 To: U2 Users List 
 Sent: Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:46 am
 Subject: Re: [U2] Code Collaboration


 So, I thought what the original poster was getting at was:
 1) Create a documentation/wiki/example site
 ) Make it searchable
 ) Have useful examples that make sense to everyone
 ) Also post the vendor/var docs
 ) Collaborate on ideas (like we do here) Maybe you guys are talking 
 about something else...
 Github, svn, cvs, PRC and all those are great tools, but, they 
 probably ren't going to create the "Wikipedia" of the MV world.
 The above can be done, but, it needs to become a living/breathing 
 thing hat gets updated a lot, otherwise, folks won't use it.  Hence 
 the
 hallenge- making it a living/breathing thing.
 I know this kind of thing has been tried, and is being tried... but 
 there robably isn't enough flag waving and marketing to keep it going.
 Or people create something, and try to make it subscription based, 
 which in his day and time is never going to work with something like the 
bove.
 Some of the things I know about are:
 http://www.nuwiki.com/cgi-bin/nuwiki.cgi?home&project=nuwiki
 ttp://www.keyally.com/prdb/universe/basic_tree_all.html
 ttp://www.pickwiki.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl
 Anyway, I'd like to help with something like that.  I'm just not sure 
 at my tage in life, that I have the time to spearhead it and become 
 the chief Architect" of something like that.

 On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 6:05 PM, Wjhonson  wrote:
>
  Personally I respond more immediately when something comes at me.
  Would it not be possible to set up a mailing list for any changes to
  Incubator code?  So all users on that list get emailed when a change 
 is
  made?
  I think this would propel both use of the code, and misuse
  enhancement.



  -Original Message-
  From: Brian Leach 
  To: U2 Users List 
  Sent: Thu, Nov 17, 2011 2:55 pm
  Subject: Re: [U2] Code Collaboration


  Mecki
  Thats why the board launche

Re: [U2] Code Collaboration

[Wjhonson]

Let's say you load a piece of code that does a great XML parsing, but I want to 
watch that code to get the next update from say... some other guy changing that 
code and republishing it right in the same spot.

That's a subscription to a page change.  But it's not *my* code, I didn't 
change it or load it.



-Original Message-
From: Daniel McGrath 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:53 am
Subject: Re: [U2] Code Collaboration


'GitHub can notify you when people interact with your code'
You have account settings to turn on/off exactly what you get notified about.
Does that meet your requirements?
-Original Message-
rom: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org 
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] 
n Behalf Of Wjhonson
ent: Friday, November 18, 2011 10:42 AM
o: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
ubject: Re: [U2] Code Collaboration
I will only be involved if there is a way to subscribe to changes, so they come 
t me, instead of me needing to go to them.

-Original Message-
rom: Daniel McGrath 
o: U2 Users List 
ent: Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:39 am
ubject: Re: [U2] Code Collaboration

 will personally pay for a business bronze github subscription to help set this 
.
e need a small handful of people who are willing to work with setting this up 
operly as well as people who already have tools worthy of being shared to mail 
hose people either permission to them in the repository.
teve & Will, would you be willing to be involved? Anyone who is can email me @ 
nmcg...@gmail.com and I will set it up this weekend then email out the 
formation to get this started.
nce people are committed we can work out appropriate licensing info, etc.
egards,
n
Original Message-
om: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org 
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org]
 Behalf Of Steve Romanow
nt: Friday, November 18, 2011 10:16 AM
: U2 Users List
bject: Re: [U2] Code Collaboration
n order to realize this vision, does every solution have to be implemented in 
CK?
f the goal is to "make our development tasks more efficient" it is making sure 
e labor that one of us puts in is not reproduced by another, i.e. Pick syntax 
les for various tools.
he "collaboration point" whether it is pickwiki or another, does not have to 
st the code, but pointers to the places where the resource can be maintained 
operly.
n example is the MAKEXML program on the wiki.  I have used that many times and  
eriously appreciate ECL and KRJ for making it available.
 it perfect, not really, every time I use it, I get the docstring twice.  The 
ki is not the way to communicate that it needs a patch.
 I did (which I should) fix my copy, who do I communicate it to?  We also need 
 let people know under what license we post the code under.  Can I put MAKEXML 
 on my github and patch it, giving attribution to ECL and KRJ?
On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 12:04 PM, Wjhonson  wrote:
 As the OP, I like the idea of a wiki, provided it can either use straight TML, 
se MediaWiki markup (which is slightly different), or use a WYSIWIG like 
tes.google.com or pbwiki uses.  I find that only a few of these have gained 
fficient traction that most gearheads know how to use them, the other 
mpetitors are just more headaches.
 Make it searchable.  Sure.  I assume that any web pages are searchable.  You 
ve to actively make something not searchable AFAIK.
 Useful examples - hopefully.  Make sense to everyone - probably not as  
ossible.  But anything that doesn't make sense, you'd be able to  markup
 I didn't address docs, but sure why not.
 Collaborate - that's the main point of my message really.  To find a way to 
llaborate that is more immediate, and more used that PickWiki which seems very 
b-webby to me.

 -Original Message-
From: John Thompson 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:46 am
Subject: Re: [U2] Code Collaboration

So, I thought what the original poster was getting at was:
1) Create a documentation/wiki/example site
) Make it searchable
) Have useful examples that make sense to everyone
) Also post the vendor/var docs
) Collaborate on ideas (like we do here) Maybe you guys are talking  about 
omething else...
Github, svn, cvs, PRC and all those are great tools, but, they  probably ren't 
oing to create the "Wikipedia" of the MV world.
The above can be done, but, it needs to become a living/breathing  thing hat 
ets updated a lot, otherwise, folks won't use it.  Hence  the
hallenge- making it a living/breathing thing.
I know this kind of thing has been tried, and is being tried... but  there 
obably isn't enough flag waving and marketing to keep it going.
Or people create something, and try to make it subscription based,  which in 
is day and time is never going to work with something like the bove.
Some of the things I know about are:
http://www.nuwiki.com/cgi-bin/nuwiki.cgi?home&project=nuwiki
ttp://www.keyally.com