Re: [ubuntu-uk] Anybody seen this, thought it might be shown, as nobody has mentioned it on here yet.....
On 21 August 2013 22:30, scoundrel50a scoundrel...@gmail.com wrote: On 21/08/2013 10:17, Alan Pope wrote: On 21 August 2013 10:13, scoundrel50a scoundrel...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I really dont understand the attitude of attack when somebody posts something like this. Not everybody is competant in using Ubuntu, and not everybody understands the risks involved especially considering for years its been pushed as a safe OS. All i have done is post this to the group, I dont appreciate this attitude. It doesnt give Ubuntu a good light when people see this. Nobody is attacking anyone. Get a grip. Just to be clear, when I said you, this is what I meant, I dont appreciate being told to get a grip..especially when I wasnt the one to shoot anybody down.. Good morning, Respectfully, I would prefer my inbox not be full of this dross every time I turn my computer on in the morning. If people are going to keep sprouting cr*p he said this, I'm being bullied I don't want to be on this list any more. Quite frankly this list is here to talk about GNU/Linux and more specifically Ubuntu. Having petty, poorly spelt arguments about being called this, that and the other only serves to make everyone party to the discussion look like a complete moron. The point that was raised was valid, however there have always been attacks around capable of hosing a Linux system, for as long as I can remember. All of these hacks required some form of mistake on the part of the user, much the same as Windows. A good analogy is giving someone a top of the range safe, but the recipient, not being trained to lock it, accidentally leaves it open, or does something to compromise the security. It's not the fault of the safe, merely that the user didn't know how to secure it. Around all of the rubbish that people have been sprouting on here, there is some logic. Using unofficial repositories is always a good way of increasing the risk factor of a break in, but by all means this doesn't mean don't use them at all if they are reputable. Another popular one is not running any scripts or Java executables from websites which aren't necessarily trustworthy. That's opening the door for someone to slip a nice rootkit in to your machine and start causing havoc. The chances of this actually happening, unless you are really gullible are quite low anyway, but perhaps it's worth going and reading some articles/books on improving your skills at preventing and detecting infections if you feel unskilled. In summary, (to everyone) kindly use your brains before spraying your verbal diarrhoea into a public conversation and speak to someone as you would like to be spoken to yourself. Kris Douglas MBCS www.krisd.eu -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Not everyone is an expert!
On 21 August 2013 22:02, Gareth France gareth.fra...@gmail.com wrote: On 21/08/13 21:59, Dave Walker wrote: Gareth, I'm sorry to hear you've had a bad experience. I haven't looked back at the thread, but please be assured that isn't the spirit of this mailing list. Please do stay around :) On 21 August 2013 21:16, Gareth France gareth.fra...@gmail.com wrote: On 21/08/13 17:45, Paul White wrote: SNIP Very true. much in the same way as bossy boots who could never be managers in real life always find their way to the top in charity committees and proceed to make everyone's life a misery just because they can. Why else would someone choose to be a manager, without these perks? It's not just here. I have seen this in other online forums. It seems that when you require the help the most is when certain individuals have the least patience. I shall continue to lurk but I'm afraid that my enthusiasm for engaging in conversation is not what it once was. I still don't understand what this is about. I can't see anywhere on this thread where another poster was criticised. Can someone please point me to the relevant post? Perhaps my copy went into spam or something. Colin -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Anybody seen this, thought it might be shown, as nobody has mentioned it on here yet.....
On 21 August 2013 22:12, scoundrel50a scoundrel...@gmail.com wrote: .. I'm sorry but if you think that Peter Maddison's reply to me was acceptable then I dont see the point in saying anything, and you shot me down yourself. Which is why I answered the way I did. The only post I can see from Peter Maddison was a reply to Pete Smout's post not yours, and anyway it was the content of the link he was commenting on not anyone's post here. Note also that I commented on his post, pointing out that it did not make sense, but it was still not an attack on you. I don't see where I shot you down. I dont see any posts on here that warn people that Linux isnt completely safe and whenever its bought up, people are treated like they are idiots and its always those people that are knowledgeable about Linux.the rest of us are treated like I have been now. I agree entirely that it is possible to get Malware on a Linux PC, so one should always be careful where one is installing software from. As I said before I don't see where you have been treated like an idiot, and if you got the impression that I was treating you like an idiot then I apologise sincerely. Colin -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Anybody seen this, thought it might be shown, as nobody has mentioned it on here yet.....
On 21/08/13 22:12, scoundrel50a wrote: On 21/08/2013 17:07, Colin Law wrote: On 21 August 2013 16:57, Gareth France gareth.fra...@gmail.com wrote: On 21/08/13 10:13, scoundrel50a wrote: Hi, I really dont understand the attitude of attack when somebody posts something like this. Not everybody is competant in using Ubuntu, and not everybody understands the risks involved especially considering for years its been pushed as a safe OS. All i have done is post this to the group, I dont appreciate this attitude. It doesnt give Ubuntu a good light when people see this. On the whole I have stopped posting to this group since there are a number of people who are obviously on pedestals above us lowly minions. Not so long back after starting a thread I was shot down in an unforgivably harsh manner by people who made assumptions about me based on absolutely no evidence and proceeded to trample all over my opinion and my self esteem. I have said it before and I'll say it again, not everyone is an expert, not everyone understands things that are obvious to you. Be careful how you respond as we are supposed to be wanting to encourage mass adoption and as many new users as possible. Insulting them, depressing them, making them feel small, they will only leave. I don't think we know what it was that scoundrel50a was taking exception to as the post he complained about was not about anything he said. Scoundrel50a can you clarify exactly what it was that worried you? Colin I'm sorry but if you think that Peter Maddison's reply to me was acceptable then I dont see the point in saying anything, and you shot me down yourself. Which is why I answered the way I did. I dont see any posts on here that warn people that Linux isnt completely safe and whenever its bought up, people are treated like they are idiots and its always those people that are knowledgeable about Linux.the rest of us are treated like I have been now. An its not just this thread its thread after thread that people are shouted down in, by the same people every time. If there is a threat out there, no matter small people should be a) aware of it, and b) advised on how to avoid problems, if everyone does small things to protect their own systems, then surely the wider community benefits, Look at how many bot nets are out there, there seems to be several million compromised Windows computers out there all chugging away and awaiting some instruction to do something nasty, some of the suggestions offered are easy to implement others not so unless you understand what it is asking you to do # Do not install unsigned packages # Do not add unofficial repositories without investigating said repository # Keep your system up to date at all times # Keep all browser plugins up to date # If your distribution has SELinux, use it # Do not let others install software on your machines # Use solid passwords # If asked to enter root user (or sudo) password, always know why Maybe what is needed here are links to sites that advise on all the above issues, the reference to SELinux could have a link to the SELinux website and an explanation of what this is, why its important. useful and what I should use it, it says don't install things you don't understand, well you have asked me to install SELinux which i sort of understand does this mean I should or should not install it, (look at that from a complete new user viewpoint) Sometimes when advice sounds like the obvious to an expert it really does baffle the novice, lets take a step back and address each of the above and perhaps help people (esp new users) to make their systems more secure through education and advice. I am happy to host information on the dcglug website blog if people can help me explain each of the above points please, this information will then be in one place and can act to help others both expert and novice help others. Hope this helps In fact such information could or would quite possibly be something to include in the ubuntu-manual project and lubuntu documentation, Paul -- -- http://www.zleap.net http://www.linkedin.com/pub/paul-sutton/36/595/911 Software freedom day event - 21st September 2013 - http://exeter.lug.org.uk/ I am committed to safeguarding children, young people and vulnerable groups and expect any school or establishment I am involved with to share this commitment. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Anybody seen this, thought it might be shown, as nobody has mentioned it on here yet.....
On 22/08/13 11:41, Paul Sutton wrote: On 21/08/13 22:12, scoundrel50a wrote: On 21/08/2013 17:07, Colin Law wrote: On 21 August 2013 16:57, Gareth France gareth.fra...@gmail.com wrote: On 21/08/13 10:13, scoundrel50a wrote: Hi, I really dont understand the attitude of attack when somebody posts something like this. Not everybody is competant in using Ubuntu, and not everybody understands the risks involved especially considering for years its been pushed as a safe OS. All i have done is post this to the group, I dont appreciate this attitude. It doesnt give Ubuntu a good light when people see this. On the whole I have stopped posting to this group since there are a number of people who are obviously on pedestals above us lowly minions. Not so long back after starting a thread I was shot down in an unforgivably harsh manner by people who made assumptions about me based on absolutely no evidence and proceeded to trample all over my opinion and my self esteem. I have said it before and I'll say it again, not everyone is an expert, not everyone understands things that are obvious to you. Be careful how you respond as we are supposed to be wanting to encourage mass adoption and as many new users as possible. Insulting them, depressing them, making them feel small, they will only leave. I don't think we know what it was that scoundrel50a was taking exception to as the post he complained about was not about anything he said. Scoundrel50a can you clarify exactly what it was that worried you? Colin I'm sorry but if you think that Peter Maddison's reply to me was acceptable then I dont see the point in saying anything, and you shot me down yourself. Which is why I answered the way I did. I dont see any posts on here that warn people that Linux isnt completely safe and whenever its bought up, people are treated like they are idiots and its always those people that are knowledgeable about Linux.the rest of us are treated like I have been now. An its not just this thread its thread after thread that people are shouted down in, by the same people every time. If there is a threat out there, no matter small people should be a) aware of it, and b) advised on how to avoid problems, if everyone does small things to protect their own systems, then surely the wider community benefits, Look at how many bot nets are out there, there seems to be several million compromised Windows computers out there all chugging away and awaiting some instruction to do something nasty, some of the suggestions offered are easy to implement others not so unless you understand what it is asking you to do # Do not install unsigned packages # Do not add unofficial repositories without investigating said repository # Keep your system up to date at all times # Keep all browser plugins up to date # If your distribution has SELinux, use it # Do not let others install software on your machines # Use solid passwords # If asked to enter root user (or sudo) password, always know why Maybe what is needed here are links to sites that advise on all the above issues, the reference to SELinux could have a link to the SELinux website and an explanation of what this is, why its important. useful and what I should use it, it says don't install things you don't understand, well you have asked me to install SELinux which i sort of understand does this mean I should or should not install it, (look at that from a complete new user viewpoint) Sometimes when advice sounds like the obvious to an expert it really does baffle the novice, lets take a step back and address each of the above and perhaps help people (esp new users) to make their systems more secure through education and advice. I am happy to host information on the dcglug website blog if people can help me explain each of the above points please, this information will then be in one place and can act to help others both expert and novice help others. Hope this helps In fact such information could or would quite possibly be something to include in the ubuntu-manual project and lubuntu documentation, Paul Hi, Although I have heard of SELinux I have never used it, I believe (not certain) that it comes as default on modern *buntu systems?! Does it need setting up, if so a link to a how to would be good! What are the benefits if using / installing it over not having it? What are the pitfalls of using it (for example I use the mozilla ppa as the firefox version in the Ubunutu repos is too out of date for certain webpages, let alone from a security point of view, will it allow me to continue using it?) I think some more research on my part is needed as in my everyday world SEL means Shelf Edge Label so the name leads to confusion ;) Good Job I'm not working today and I have the time to research, if anyone has some good links on the subject I (if not anyone else) would be interested
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Anybody seen this, thought it might be shown, as nobody has mentioned it on here yet.....
On 22/08/13 11:59, pete smout wrote: On 22/08/13 11:41, Paul Sutton wrote: On 21/08/13 22:12, scoundrel50a wrote: On 21/08/2013 17:07, Colin Law wrote: On 21 August 2013 16:57, Gareth France gareth.fra...@gmail.com wrote: On 21/08/13 10:13, scoundrel50a wrote: Hi, I really dont understand the attitude of attack when somebody posts something like this. Not everybody is competant in using Ubuntu, and not everybody understands the risks involved especially considering for years its been pushed as a safe OS. All i have done is post this to the group, I dont appreciate this attitude. It doesnt give Ubuntu a good light when people see this. On the whole I have stopped posting to this group since there are a number of people who are obviously on pedestals above us lowly minions. Not so long back after starting a thread I was shot down in an unforgivably harsh manner by people who made assumptions about me based on absolutely no evidence and proceeded to trample all over my opinion and my self esteem. I have said it before and I'll say it again, not everyone is an expert, not everyone understands things that are obvious to you. Be careful how you respond as we are supposed to be wanting to encourage mass adoption and as many new users as possible. Insulting them, depressing them, making them feel small, they will only leave. I don't think we know what it was that scoundrel50a was taking exception to as the post he complained about was not about anything he said. Scoundrel50a can you clarify exactly what it was that worried you? Colin I'm sorry but if you think that Peter Maddison's reply to me was acceptable then I dont see the point in saying anything, and you shot me down yourself. Which is why I answered the way I did. I dont see any posts on here that warn people that Linux isnt completely safe and whenever its bought up, people are treated like they are idiots and its always those people that are knowledgeable about Linux.the rest of us are treated like I have been now. An its not just this thread its thread after thread that people are shouted down in, by the same people every time. If there is a threat out there, no matter small people should be a) aware of it, and b) advised on how to avoid problems, if everyone does small things to protect their own systems, then surely the wider community benefits, Look at how many bot nets are out there, there seems to be several million compromised Windows computers out there all chugging away and awaiting some instruction to do something nasty, some of the suggestions offered are easy to implement others not so unless you understand what it is asking you to do # Do not install unsigned packages # Do not add unofficial repositories without investigating said repository # Keep your system up to date at all times # Keep all browser plugins up to date # If your distribution has SELinux, use it # Do not let others install software on your machines # Use solid passwords # If asked to enter root user (or sudo) password, always know why Maybe what is needed here are links to sites that advise on all the above issues, the reference to SELinux could have a link to the SELinux website and an explanation of what this is, why its important. useful and what I should use it, it says don't install things you don't understand, well you have asked me to install SELinux which i sort of understand does this mean I should or should not install it, (look at that from a complete new user viewpoint) Sometimes when advice sounds like the obvious to an expert it really does baffle the novice, lets take a step back and address each of the above and perhaps help people (esp new users) to make their systems more secure through education and advice. I am happy to host information on the dcglug website blog if people can help me explain each of the above points please, this information will then be in one place and can act to help others both expert and novice help others. Hope this helps In fact such information could or would quite possibly be something to include in the ubuntu-manual project and lubuntu documentation, Paul Hi, Although I have heard of SELinux I have never used it, I believe (not certain) that it comes as default on modern *buntu systems?! Does it need setting up, if so a link to a how to would be good! What are the benefits if using / installing it over not having it? What are the pitfalls of using it (for example I use the mozilla ppa as the firefox version in the Ubunutu repos is too out of date for certain webpages, let alone from a security point of view, will it allow me to continue using it?) I think some more research on my part is needed as in my everyday world SEL means Shelf Edge Label so the name leads to confusion ;) Good Job I'm not working today and I have the time to research, if anyone has some good links on the subject I
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Anybody seen this, thought it might be shown, as nobody has mentioned it on here yet.....
On 22 August 2013 12:21, pete smout psmo...@live.com wrote: Right a quick google of 'SELinux ubuntu 13.04' a link top of page to an Amazon page trying to sell me a Ubunutu DVD for £6.49 (even I am not that stupid) the SELinux wiki page is helpful if long-winded, and I have found a folder /selinux which is completely empty on my system? does that mean it is there? Or is it there and never been configured for use? And on a single user system (as opposed to a server) do I need it at all? I apologize in advance if I (1) should start a new thread (will happily do so), or (2) am asking stupid questions, but this thread has got me thinking.. Pete Smout Ubuntu uses AppArmor rather than SELInux (which is used by e.g. Fedora, CentOS and SUSE). This is probably why you haven't found a lot about it wrt Ubuntu! J -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Anybody seen this, thought it might be shown, as nobody has mentioned it on here yet.....
On 22 August 2013 12:21, pete smout psmo...@live.com wrote: On 22/08/13 11:59, pete smout wrote: On 22/08/13 11:41, Paul Sutton wrote: On 21/08/13 22:12, scoundrel50a wrote: On 21/08/2013 17:07, Colin Law wrote: On 21 August 2013 16:57, Gareth France gareth.fra...@gmail.com wrote: On 21/08/13 10:13, scoundrel50a wrote: Hi, I really dont understand the attitude of attack when somebody posts something like this. Not everybody is competant in using Ubuntu, and not everybody understands the risks involved especially considering for years its been pushed as a safe OS. All i have done is post this to the group, I dont appreciate this attitude. It doesnt give Ubuntu a good light when people see this. On the whole I have stopped posting to this group since there are a number of people who are obviously on pedestals above us lowly minions. Not so long back after starting a thread I was shot down in an unforgivably harsh manner by people who made assumptions about me based on absolutely no evidence and proceeded to trample all over my opinion and my self esteem. I have said it before and I'll say it again, not everyone is an expert, not everyone understands things that are obvious to you. Be careful how you respond as we are supposed to be wanting to encourage mass adoption and as many new users as possible. Insulting them, depressing them, making them feel small, they will only leave. I don't think we know what it was that scoundrel50a was taking exception to as the post he complained about was not about anything he said. Scoundrel50a can you clarify exactly what it was that worried you? Colin I'm sorry but if you think that Peter Maddison's reply to me was acceptable then I dont see the point in saying anything, and you shot me down yourself. Which is why I answered the way I did. I dont see any posts on here that warn people that Linux isnt completely safe and whenever its bought up, people are treated like they are idiots and its always those people that are knowledgeable about Linux.the rest of us are treated like I have been now. An its not just this thread its thread after thread that people are shouted down in, by the same people every time. If there is a threat out there, no matter small people should be a) aware of it, and b) advised on how to avoid problems, if everyone does small things to protect their own systems, then surely the wider community benefits, Look at how many bot nets are out there, there seems to be several million compromised Windows computers out there all chugging away and awaiting some instruction to do something nasty, some of the suggestions offered are easy to implement others not so unless you understand what it is asking you to do # Do not install unsigned packages # Do not add unofficial repositories without investigating said repository # Keep your system up to date at all times # Keep all browser plugins up to date # If your distribution has SELinux, use it # Do not let others install software on your machines # Use solid passwords # If asked to enter root user (or sudo) password, always know why Maybe what is needed here are links to sites that advise on all the above issues, the reference to SELinux could have a link to the SELinux website and an explanation of what this is, why its important. useful and what I should use it, it says don't install things you don't understand, well you have asked me to install SELinux which i sort of understand does this mean I should or should not install it, (look at that from a complete new user viewpoint) Sometimes when advice sounds like the obvious to an expert it really does baffle the novice, lets take a step back and address each of the above and perhaps help people (esp new users) to make their systems more secure through education and advice. I am happy to host information on the dcglug website blog if people can help me explain each of the above points please, this information will then be in one place and can act to help others both expert and novice help others. Hope this helps In fact such information could or would quite possibly be something to include in the ubuntu-manual project and lubuntu documentation, Paul Hi, Although I have heard of SELinux I have never used it, I believe (not certain) that it comes as default on modern *buntu systems?! Does it need setting up, if so a link to a how to would be good! What are the benefits if using / installing it over not having it? What are the pitfalls of using it (for example I use the mozilla ppa as the firefox version in the Ubunutu repos is too out of date for certain webpages, let alone from a security point of view, will it allow me to continue using it?) I think some more research on my part is needed as in my everyday world SEL means Shelf Edge Label so the name leads to confusion ;) Good Job I'm not working today and I have the time to
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Not everyone is an expert!
On 21/08/13 22:02, Gareth France wrote: On 21/08/13 21:59, Dave Walker wrote: Gareth, I'm sorry to hear you've had a bad experience. I haven't looked back at the thread, but please be assured that isn't the spirit of this mailing list. Please do stay around :) On 21 August 2013 21:16, Gareth France gareth.fra...@gmail.com wrote: On 21/08/13 17:45, Paul White wrote: SNIP Very true. much in the same way as bossy boots who could never be managers in real life always find their way to the top in charity committees and proceed to make everyone's life a misery just because they can. Why else would someone choose to be a manager, without these perks? It's not just here. I have seen this in other online forums. It seems that when you require the help the most is when certain individuals have the least patience. I shall continue to lurk but I'm afraid that my enthusiasm for engaging in conversation is not what it once was. I second this, I have come across the get lost and use google brigade even when asking for advice based on peoples personal experiences, with something. its really off putting,. I have however found this forum friendly and helpful so in this context it is OTHER forums where I have had problems. but end of the day it's still the GNU/Linux community that looks bad. Paul -- -- http://www.zleap.net http://www.linkedin.com/pub/paul-sutton/36/595/911 Software freedom day event - 21st September 2013 - http://exeter.lug.org.uk/ I am committed to safeguarding children, young people and vulnerable groups and expect any school or establishment I am involved with to share this commitment. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Anybody seen this, thought it might be shown, as nobody has mentioned it on here yet.....
On 22/08/13 12:33, Kris Douglas wrote: On 22 August 2013 12:21, pete smout psmo...@live.com wrote: On 22/08/13 11:59, pete smout wrote: On 22/08/13 11:41, Paul Sutton wrote: On 21/08/13 22:12, scoundrel50a wrote: On 21/08/2013 17:07, Colin Law wrote: On 21 August 2013 16:57, Gareth France gareth.fra...@gmail.com wrote: On 21/08/13 10:13, scoundrel50a wrote: Hi, I really dont understand the attitude of attack when somebody posts something like this. Not everybody is competant in using Ubuntu, and not everybody understands the risks involved especially considering for years its been pushed as a safe OS. All i have done is post this to the group, I dont appreciate this attitude. It doesnt give Ubuntu a good light when people see this. On the whole I have stopped posting to this group since there are a number of people who are obviously on pedestals above us lowly minions. Not so long back after starting a thread I was shot down in an unforgivably harsh manner by people who made assumptions about me based on absolutely no evidence and proceeded to trample all over my opinion and my self esteem. I have said it before and I'll say it again, not everyone is an expert, not everyone understands things that are obvious to you. Be careful how you respond as we are supposed to be wanting to encourage mass adoption and as many new users as possible. Insulting them, depressing them, making them feel small, they will only leave. I don't think we know what it was that scoundrel50a was taking exception to as the post he complained about was not about anything he said. Scoundrel50a can you clarify exactly what it was that worried you? Colin I'm sorry but if you think that Peter Maddison's reply to me was acceptable then I dont see the point in saying anything, and you shot me down yourself. Which is why I answered the way I did. I dont see any posts on here that warn people that Linux isnt completely safe and whenever its bought up, people are treated like they are idiots and its always those people that are knowledgeable about Linux.the rest of us are treated like I have been now. An its not just this thread its thread after thread that people are shouted down in, by the same people every time. If there is a threat out there, no matter small people should be a) aware of it, and b) advised on how to avoid problems, if everyone does small things to protect their own systems, then surely the wider community benefits, Look at how many bot nets are out there, there seems to be several million compromised Windows computers out there all chugging away and awaiting some instruction to do something nasty, some of the suggestions offered are easy to implement others not so unless you understand what it is asking you to do # Do not install unsigned packages # Do not add unofficial repositories without investigating said repository # Keep your system up to date at all times # Keep all browser plugins up to date # If your distribution has SELinux, use it # Do not let others install software on your machines # Use solid passwords # If asked to enter root user (or sudo) password, always know why Maybe what is needed here are links to sites that advise on all the above issues, the reference to SELinux could have a link to the SELinux website and an explanation of what this is, why its important. useful and what I should use it, it says don't install things you don't understand, well you have asked me to install SELinux which i sort of understand does this mean I should or should not install it, (look at that from a complete new user viewpoint) Sometimes when advice sounds like the obvious to an expert it really does baffle the novice, lets take a step back and address each of the above and perhaps help people (esp new users) to make their systems more secure through education and advice. I am happy to host information on the dcglug website blog if people can help me explain each of the above points please, this information will then be in one place and can act to help others both expert and novice help others. Hope this helps In fact such information could or would quite possibly be something to include in the ubuntu-manual project and lubuntu documentation, Paul Hi, Although I have heard of SELinux I have never used it, I believe (not certain) that it comes as default on modern *buntu systems?! Does it need setting up, if so a link to a how to would be good! What are the benefits if using / installing it over not having it? What are the pitfalls of using it (for example I use the mozilla ppa as the firefox version in the Ubunutu repos is too out of date for certain webpages, let alone from a security point of view, will it allow me to continue using it?) I think some more research on my part is needed as in my everyday world SEL means Shelf Edge Label so the name leads to confusion ;) Good Job I'm not
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Real Ale Train is next month!
On 19 August 2013 12:19, Alan Lord (News) alansli...@gmail.com wrote: I have one ticket that I will no longer be able to use - having to jet off to Italy for a vtiger CRM conference instead - any one want to buy it off me they are welcome. It cost £14 inc. booking fee. Cheers Al If this is still available, I will offer £13.99.. I couldn't possibly extend to the full price. -- Kind Regards, Dave Walker dave.wal...@canonical.com Engineering Manager, Ubuntu Server -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
[ubuntu-uk] Problems with a freezing machine: All kernels in 12.04 and 13.04
Dear all, I am wondering if someone can help me with a major problem that i have been having in Ubuntu, pertaining to a notoriously hard to diagnose issue of random freezing. The problem started in 13.04, which would freeze randomly, from the day i installed it. I persisted with the issue for a while, hoping that it would work itself out with subsequent kernel updates and as 13.04 was patched. Unfortunately 2 months in i was still losing work to random freezes. I thus found myself with a free weekend and so decided to downgrade to 12.04 which had worked for me previously. Frustratingly however, i found that the problem now manifest there as well (there had been no problem in 12.10 previously). A system freeze appears to happen at random, although it is possibly related to having the machine on battery power. When it happens I can't input anything, and if there is a song playing it skips. Only way out is a hard reboot. I remain on 12.04, 64 bit. I have updated my bios, and run memtest86. The latter found no errors and the former has not improved things. The machine is a Lenovo x131e, Intel, with integrated graphics and broadcom wireless. I have tried filling a bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1174275, but got stuck as i could not properly test the upstream kernel as wireless would not work. The fact that there was a wireless problem on Broadcom BCM43228 and that the freeze appears to correlate with having the machine on battery power (i am still testing this) means that i thought it might be a problem with powersave on the wireless card. There were a number of posts about this but the general solution seemed to be to turn off the powersave option on the card (http://robertbeal.com/1248/ubuntu-10101104-freezing-battery-power). I did this to no avail as i still got a freeze when the machine was on battery power. I have also tried posting this problem on the forums ( http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2166195), providing a list or kernel errors that i get after a freeze. Understanding this list is beyond my ability, so i don't know where to start. I haven't had much luck with anyone there. At this point i am not sure what else to do. I don't know how to diagnose the problem any further as many forums simply say that analysing a system freeze is difficult. This is a bit of a massive bug for me as random system freezes really interrupt with my daily work. I'd love to get this resolved, or at least work out what the problem is so that i can get it reported. Ideally i'd have 13.04 working, but will settle for 12.04. If anyone can give me any advice on what steps to take to work out what the problem is, i would really appreciate it. Thanks, James. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Anybody seen this, thought it might be shown, as nobody has mentioned it on here yet.....
On 22/08/13 13:06, pete smout wrote: On 22/08/13 12:33, Kris Douglas wrote: On 22 August 2013 12:21, pete smout psmo...@live.com wrote: On 22/08/13 11:59, pete smout wrote: On 22/08/13 11:41, Paul Sutton wrote: On 21/08/13 22:12, scoundrel50a wrote: On 21/08/2013 17:07, Colin Law wrote: On 21 August 2013 16:57, Gareth France gareth.fra...@gmail.com wrote: On 21/08/13 10:13, scoundrel50a wrote: Hi, I really dont understand the attitude of attack when somebody posts something like this. Not everybody is competant in using Ubuntu, and not everybody understands the risks involved especially considering for years its been pushed as a safe OS. All i have done is post this to the group, I dont appreciate this attitude. It doesnt give Ubuntu a good light when people see this. On the whole I have stopped posting to this group since there are a number of people who are obviously on pedestals above us lowly minions. Not so long back after starting a thread I was shot down in an unforgivably harsh manner by people who made assumptions about me based on absolutely no evidence and proceeded to trample all over my opinion and my self esteem. I have said it before and I'll say it again, not everyone is an expert, not everyone understands things that are obvious to you. Be careful how you respond as we are supposed to be wanting to encourage mass adoption and as many new users as possible. Insulting them, depressing them, making them feel small, they will only leave. I don't think we know what it was that scoundrel50a was taking exception to as the post he complained about was not about anything he said. Scoundrel50a can you clarify exactly what it was that worried you? Colin I'm sorry but if you think that Peter Maddison's reply to me was acceptable then I dont see the point in saying anything, and you shot me down yourself. Which is why I answered the way I did. I dont see any posts on here that warn people that Linux isnt completely safe and whenever its bought up, people are treated like they are idiots and its always those people that are knowledgeable about Linux.the rest of us are treated like I have been now. An its not just this thread its thread after thread that people are shouted down in, by the same people every time. If there is a threat out there, no matter small people should be a) aware of it, and b) advised on how to avoid problems, if everyone does small things to protect their own systems, then surely the wider community benefits, Look at how many bot nets are out there, there seems to be several million compromised Windows computers out there all chugging away and awaiting some instruction to do something nasty, some of the suggestions offered are easy to implement others not so unless you understand what it is asking you to do # Do not install unsigned packages # Do not add unofficial repositories without investigating said repository # Keep your system up to date at all times # Keep all browser plugins up to date # If your distribution has SELinux, use it # Do not let others install software on your machines # Use solid passwords # If asked to enter root user (or sudo) password, always know why Maybe what is needed here are links to sites that advise on all the above issues, the reference to SELinux could have a link to the SELinux website and an explanation of what this is, why its important. useful and what I should use it, it says don't install things you don't understand, well you have asked me to install SELinux which i sort of understand does this mean I should or should not install it, (look at that from a complete new user viewpoint) Sometimes when advice sounds like the obvious to an expert it really does baffle the novice, lets take a step back and address each of the above and perhaps help people (esp new users) to make their systems more secure through education and advice. I am happy to host information on the dcglug website blog if people can help me explain each of the above points please, this information will then be in one place and can act to help others both expert and novice help others. Hope this helps In fact such information could or would quite possibly be something to include in the ubuntu-manual project and lubuntu documentation, Paul Hi, Although I have heard of SELinux I have never used it, I believe (not certain) that it comes as default on modern *buntu systems?! Does it need setting up, if so a link to a how to would be good! What are the benefits if using / installing it over not having it? What are the pitfalls of using it (for example I use the mozilla ppa as the firefox version in the Ubunutu repos is too out of date for certain webpages, let alone from a security point of view, will it allow me to continue using it?) I think some more research on my part is needed as in my everyday world SEL means Shelf Edge Label so the name
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Problems with a freezing machine: All kernels in 12.04 and 13.04
Hi James. For what it is worth I had a similar problem with 12.04 and 12.10 and found the only solution was to reinstall 12.10 and refrain from doing any updates. 13.04 works OK with all updates loaded, but I used both with a Ubuntu One link as security until I was sure. Regards, Martin Dixon On 22/08/13 13:21, James Morrissey wrote: Dear all, I am wondering if someone can help me with a major problem that i have been having in Ubuntu, pertaining to a notoriously hard to diagnose issue of random freezing. The problem started in 13.04, which would freeze randomly, from the day i installed it. I persisted with the issue for a while, hoping that it would work itself out with subsequent kernel updates and as 13.04 was patched. Unfortunately 2 months in i was still losing work to random freezes. I thus found myself with a free weekend and so decided to downgrade to 12.04 which had worked for me previously. Frustratingly however, i found that the problem now manifest there as well (there had been no problem in 12.10 previously). A system freeze appears to happen at random, although it is possibly related to having the machine on battery power. When it happens I can't input anything, and if there is a song playing it skips. Only way out is a hard reboot. I remain on 12.04, 64 bit. I have updated my bios, and run memtest86. The latter found no errors and the former has not improved things. The machine is a Lenovo x131e, Intel, with integrated graphics and broadcom wireless. I have tried filling a bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1174275, but got stuck as i could not properly test the upstream kernel as wireless would not work. The fact that there was a wireless problem on Broadcom BCM43228 and that the freeze appears to correlate with having the machine on battery power (i am still testing this) means that i thought it might be a problem with powersave on the wireless card. There were a number of posts about this but the general solution seemed to be to turn off the powersave option on the card (http://robertbeal.com/1248/ubuntu-10101104-freezing-battery-power). I did this to no avail as i still got a freeze when the machine was on battery power. I have also tried posting this problem on the forums (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2166195), providing a list or kernel errors that i get after a freeze. Understanding this list is beyond my ability, so i don't know where to start. I haven't had much luck with anyone there. At this point i am not sure what else to do. I don't know how to diagnose the problem any further as many forums simply say that analysing a system freeze is difficult. This is a bit of a massive bug for me as random system freezes really interrupt with my daily work. I'd love to get this resolved, or at least work out what the problem is so that i can get it reported. Ideally i'd have 13.04 working, but will settle for 12.04. If anyone can give me any advice on what steps to take to work out what the problem is, i would really appreciate it. Thanks, James. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Anybody seen this, thought it might be shown, as nobody has mentioned it on here yet.....
SEL takes a bit of getting your head round (well, I found it the hardest part of the Red Hat Engineer course I did). The notes from Red Hat are very good and I include two links for those who wish top learn more. Regards, Phill. 1. https://access.redhat.com/site/documentation/en-US/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux/6/html/Security-Enhanced_Linux/index.html 2. http://www.redhat.com/magazine/001nov04/features/selinux/ On 22 August 2013 13:30, Tony Arnold tony.arn...@manchester.ac.uk wrote: On 22/08/13 13:06, pete smout wrote: On 22/08/13 12:33, Kris Douglas wrote: On 22 August 2013 12:21, pete smout psmo...@live.com wrote: On 22/08/13 11:59, pete smout wrote: On 22/08/13 11:41, Paul Sutton wrote: On 21/08/13 22:12, scoundrel50a wrote: On 21/08/2013 17:07, Colin Law wrote: On 21 August 2013 16:57, Gareth France gareth.fra...@gmail.com wrote: On 21/08/13 10:13, scoundrel50a wrote: Hi, I really dont understand the attitude of attack when somebody posts something like this. Not everybody is competant in using Ubuntu, and not everybody understands the risks involved especially considering for years its been pushed as a safe OS. All i have done is post this to the group, I dont appreciate this attitude. It doesnt give Ubuntu a good light when people see this. On the whole I have stopped posting to this group since there are a number of people who are obviously on pedestals above us lowly minions. Not so long back after starting a thread I was shot down in an unforgivably harsh manner by people who made assumptions about me based on absolutely no evidence and proceeded to trample all over my opinion and my self esteem. I have said it before and I'll say it again, not everyone is an expert, not everyone understands things that are obvious to you. Be careful how you respond as we are supposed to be wanting to encourage mass adoption and as many new users as possible. Insulting them, depressing them, making them feel small, they will only leave. I don't think we know what it was that scoundrel50a was taking exception to as the post he complained about was not about anything he said. Scoundrel50a can you clarify exactly what it was that worried you? Colin I'm sorry but if you think that Peter Maddison's reply to me was acceptable then I dont see the point in saying anything, and you shot me down yourself. Which is why I answered the way I did. I dont see any posts on here that warn people that Linux isnt completely safe and whenever its bought up, people are treated like they are idiots and its always those people that are knowledgeable about Linux.the rest of us are treated like I have been now. An its not just this thread its thread after thread that people are shouted down in, by the same people every time. If there is a threat out there, no matter small people should be a) aware of it, and b) advised on how to avoid problems, if everyone does small things to protect their own systems, then surely the wider community benefits, Look at how many bot nets are out there, there seems to be several million compromised Windows computers out there all chugging away and awaiting some instruction to do something nasty, some of the suggestions offered are easy to implement others not so unless you understand what it is asking you to do # Do not install unsigned packages # Do not add unofficial repositories without investigating said repository # Keep your system up to date at all times # Keep all browser plugins up to date # If your distribution has SELinux, use it # Do not let others install software on your machines # Use solid passwords # If asked to enter root user (or sudo) password, always know why Maybe what is needed here are links to sites that advise on all the above issues, the reference to SELinux could have a link to the SELinux website and an explanation of what this is, why its important. useful and what I should use it, it says don't install things you don't understand, well you have asked me to install SELinux which i sort of understand does this mean I should or should not install it, (look at that from a complete new user viewpoint) Sometimes when advice sounds like the obvious to an expert it really does baffle the novice, lets take a step back and address each of the above and perhaps help people (esp new users) to make their systems more secure through education and advice. I am happy to host information on the dcglug website blog if people can help me explain each of the above points please, this information will then be in one place and can act to help others both expert and novice help others. Hope this helps In fact such information could or would quite possibly be something to include in the ubuntu-manual project and lubuntu documentation, Paul
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Problems with a freezing machine: All kernels in 12.04 and 13.04
On 22/08/13 13:21, James Morrissey wrote: --snip-- The fact that there was a wireless problem on Broadcom BCM43228 and that the freeze appears to correlate with having the machine on battery power (i am This sounds like a problem with the Broadcom drivers - this was a known problem with early versions of bcmwl-kernel-source 6.* (5.* was fine), but I'm not sure if it has been addressed. The easiest workaround I found for my Mini311c was to use the b43 driver (firmware-b43-installer) - other people gave up and put in an Intel wireless card instead (not an ideal solution but it works). I haven't used my 311c for a while (since I got a refurb X61) but the bug report [1] has a link to an updated package from saucy [2] that's been reported to fix the issue. Of course, if you don't have internet access that doesn't help much... Jonathon [1] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bcmwl/+bug/1134389 [2] https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bcmwl/6.30.223.30+bdcom-0ubuntu2/+build/4724924/+files/bcmwl-kernel-source_6.30.223.30%2Bbdcom-0ubuntu2_amd64.deb -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Problems with a freezing machine: All kernels in 12.04 and 13.04
On 22 August 2013 13:21, James Morrissey morrissey.jam...@gmail.com wrote: I am wondering if someone can help me with a major problem that i have been having in Ubuntu, pertaining to a notoriously hard to diagnose issue of random freezing. That's nasty. :¬( Unfortunately, intermittent problems are always very hard to troubleshoot. One significant question is this: * does the problem only occur under Linux? If you have any other OS on the machine, use that for a while and see if it suffers the problem as well. Windows is the obvious candidate, but there are other potential ones as well - Mac OS X, PC-BSD etc. -- Liam Proven • Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 • Cell: +44 7939-087884 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Problems with a freezing machine: All kernels in 12.04 and 13.04
On 22 August 2013 14:46, Martin Dixon mh.di...@btinternet.com wrote: Hi James. For what it is worth I had a similar problem with 12.04 and 12.10 and found the only solution was to reinstall 12.10 and refrain from doing any updates. 13.04 works OK with all updates loaded, but I used both with a Ubuntu One link as security until I was sure. Hi Martin, Thanks for getting back to me. I appreciate the sense of solidarity and take hope from the fact that this worked itself out for you. That said, ss it not dangerous to run a machine without any of the updates? -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Problems with a freezing machine: All kernels in 12.04 and 13.04
On 22 August 2013 15:00, J Fernyhough j.fernyho...@gmail.com wrote: On 22/08/13 13:21, James Morrissey wrote: --snip-- The fact that there was a wireless problem on Broadcom BCM43228 and that the freeze appears to correlate with having the machine on battery power (i am This sounds like a problem with the Broadcom drivers - this was a known problem with early versions of bcmwl-kernel-source 6.* (5.* was fine), but I'm not sure if it has been addressed. The easiest workaround I found for my Mini311c was to use the b43 driver (firmware-b43-installer) Yes, that sounds right. Through trawling many forums i was vaguely convinced that this was a wireless-broadcom problem. This also ties in with the fact that i have had numerous problems getting my wireless to work on different releases, on this machine. With this in mind could someone tell me which packages i need to have installed in order to get wireless working. At the moment i have Broadcom STA wireless driver installed, which happened when i enabled additional drivers. If i uninstall bcmwl-kernel-source, which of the following packages do i need to install in order to get my wireless working: firmware-b43-installer, firmware-b43-lppy-installer, b43-fwcutter, and/or firmware-b43legacy-installer. I ask because i have had other problems installing the wrong packages in 13.04 after trying to the the upstream kernel to work (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2140655) - ironically part of a vain attempt to resolve the freezing issue. - other people gave up and put in an Intel wireless card instead (not an ideal solution but it works). I have thought of this and would be happy to be rid of this broadcom issue altogether - the only reason i have this card is because Lenovo replaced my previous faulty machine (which had an intel card) with a newer model, which only had a broadcom option. That said, forums tell me that with a laptop i need to make sure the wireless card is compatible with the rest of the machine's components. How do i check this to determine which intel card to buy? Lenovo support is so useless as to make me loath to try contact them about it. Thanks for the help, j -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Problems with a freezing machine: All kernels in 12.04 and 13.04
On 22 August 2013 15:04, Liam Proven lpro...@gmail.com wrote: * does the problem only occur under Linux? If you have any other OS on the machine, use that for a while and see if it suffers the problem as well. Windows is the obvious candidate, but there are other potential ones as well - Mac OS X, PC-BSD etc. I have a windows partition on my HDD, but only really keep it there so that i can run the BIOS update utility from Lenovo. The partition is only really big enough to do that - i am not sure i could fit a LibreOffice or even anti-virus install on the space that is there. Thus i can't do much that is productive in windows - which is fine as i don't use it for anything - meaning that testing this is a time waster. Thus while i could test this i would happily first see if the driver fix resolves it first. Will hold out on this and if nothing else works, sit on windows for a day this weekend... Thanks, j -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Problems with a freezing machine: All kernels in 12.04 and 13.04
On 22 August 2013 14:36, James Morrissey morrissey.jam...@gmail.com wrote: I have a windows partition on my HDD, but only really keep it there so that i can run the BIOS update utility from Lenovo. The partition is only really big enough to do that - i am not sure i could fit a LibreOffice or even anti-virus install on the space that is there. Thus i can't do much that is productive in windows - which is fine as i don't use it for anything - meaning that testing this is a time waster. Thus while i could test this i would happily first see if the driver fix resolves it first. Will hold out on this and if nothing else works, sit on windows for a day this weekend... GParted will allow you to resize it a little. Also, you could give Windows a data partition on the end of the drive and move your Documents folder there. Also give it a general clear-out - empty the bin, empty the Temp folders in \Windows and your home folder; disable hibernation; disable the swap file (or move it to the data drive). That should buy you a few free gig. (I wrote an article with a few tips here: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1004689/how-to-give-a-tired-old-pc-a-spring-clean ) Ninite.com is very useful for quickly, cleanly installing a whole selection of freeware/FOSS Windows apps to get you up and running. -- Liam Proven • Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 • Cell: +44 7939-087884 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Problems with a freezing machine: All kernels in 12.04 and 13.04
On 22 August 2013 14:30, James Morrissey morrissey.jam...@gmail.com wrote: If i uninstall bcmwl-kernel-source, which of the following packages do i need to install in order to get my wireless working: firmware-b43-installer, firmware-b43-lppy-installer, b43-fwcutter, and/or firmware-b43legacy-installer. I ask because i have had other problems installing the wrong packages in 13.04 after trying to the the upstream kernel to work (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2140655) - ironically part of a vain attempt to resolve the freezing issue. This depends on the card. I'd start with firmware-b43-installer. IIRC it will complain if it's the wrong one for the card (but according to the saucy package it lists the BCM4322 as compatible; not sure if this is the same family as the BCM43228). I have thought of this and would be happy to be rid of this broadcom issue altogether - the only reason i have this card is because Lenovo replaced my previous faulty machine (which had an intel card) with a newer model, which only had a broadcom option. That said, forums tell me that with a laptop i need to make sure the wireless card is compatible with the rest of the machine's components. How do i check this to determine which intel card to buy? Lenovo support is so useless as to make me loath to try contact them about it. It appears from a quick search that the only Intel-based card that is included in the whitelist is 60Y3253 - Intel Centrino Advanced-N 6205 802.11a/b/g/n card (Intel 6205 chipset) [1]. There's a possibility that there's a hacked BIOS out there which removes the whitelisting, though (there certainly are for the X61 [2]); I'm not recommending this but there are threads out there [3]. J [1] http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/X-Series-ThinkPad-Laptops/X131e-WLAN-BIOS-Whitelist/td-p/1103623 [2] http://forum.notebookreview.com/lenovo/459591-t61-x61-sata-ii-1-5-gb-s-cap-willing-pay-solution-8.html#post6501443 [3] http://forums.mydigitallife.info/threads/5866-LENOVO-%28IBM%29-Bioses-especially-Thinkpad -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Has anybody seen this and what do you think......
On 31/07/13 20:42, Pete wrote: I guess most if not everyone out there know that Governments use Windows XP (Uk Gov't) and that it costs quite a huge amount to pay in bulk licenses, including local councils. Does anyone know how much these bulk licenses cost and how many the UK Gov't have? Well, onto the main reason I am posting - I have sent an email to my local MP to look into using a Linux based OS instead of Windows as they wont need to pay for licenses which will presumably save hundreds of thousands. Why not send an email to your local MP or the MP that deals with the IT or whoever it is that does. What's your thoughts on this? More to the point ask what the plan is once XP reaches end of life, in 2014 and suggest alternatives, but people are going to need training, support in its use, etc, who can provide that, who can provide tech support, etc, how much are canonicals packages on support. etc on this basis any pointers to people who can perhaps support local government in this may be helpful, Paul -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Not everyone is an expert!
It's not just here. I have seen this in other online forums. It seems that when you require the help the most is when certain individuals have the least patience. I shall continue to lurk but I'm afraid that my enthusiasm for engaging in conversation is not what it once was. I second this, I have come across the get lost and use google brigade even when asking for advice based on peoples personal experiences, with something. its really off putting,. I have however found this forum friendly and helpful so in this context it is OTHER forums where I have had problems. but end of the day it's still the GNU/Linux community that looks bad. Paul I am in a dead area for user groups and would like to start one up. I feel it would be a great help to have something physical where people can go for help, support and encouragement. However whenever I mention this and try to push for it I just get hit with a whole lot of negative comments and lethargy. Nobody seems willing to support the idea at all and I think it's a real shame. There seems to be a lot of laziness and 'let somebody else deal with it' attitude going on. I'm more than happy to set one up but it's not easy when you don't have any proof that anybody else will even turn up! We all need to remember at all times that when we talk on these forums, chat rooms, web pages that we are representing the brand (whichever floats your boat) and so should keep it positive, constructive and supportive at all times. If any of us feels the need to drag the tone down we really shouldn't be doing so in such a public way, keep it 1 on 1. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Not everyone is an expert!
On 22/08/13 15:59, Gareth France wrote: I am in a dead area for user groups and would like to start one up. I feel it would be a great help to have something physical where people can go for help, support and encouragement. However whenever I mention this and try to push for it I just get hit with a whole lot of negative comments and lethargy. Nobody seems willing to support the idea at all and I think it's a real shame. There seems to be a lot of laziness and 'let somebody else deal with it' attitude going on. I'm more than happy to set one up but it's not easy when you don't have any proof that anybody else will even turn up! We all need to remember at all times that when we talk on these forums, chat rooms, web pages that we are representing the brand (whichever floats your boat) and so should keep it positive, constructive and supportive at all times. If any of us feels the need to drag the tone down we really shouldn't be doing so in such a public way, keep it 1 on 1. Gareth, There is nothing to stop you organising it, sending a link out to date / time of the meet up here if you so chose, it's an Ubuntu mailing list so I assume the meet up would be Ubuntu related of some kind, perhaps you could add the event to the loco team portal. Laura -- Laura Czajkowski https://wiki.ubuntu.com/czajkowski LoCo Council Member Community Council Member -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Not everyone is an expert!
Gareth, There is nothing to stop you organising it, sending a link out to date / time of the meet up here if you so chose, it's an Ubuntu mailing list so I assume the meet up would be Ubuntu related of some kind, perhaps you could add the event to the loco team portal. Laura Yes thank you, I'm aware I could do that. However my efforts have been focused at a more local level for the moment. I do wonder if anyone on the nationwide list would be interested in attending something out of the way like this. I'm just saying that where I have spoken to people on the whole their comments tend to sap away a little enthusiasm and a little confidence. It just seems a shame people aren't more positive sometimes. As for my meeting. I will pull out all the stops and make sure everyone knows what's going on once I have a few confirmed locals to get it started. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Not everyone is an expert!
On 22 August 2013 16:31, Gareth France gareth.fra...@gmail.com wrote: Gareth, There is nothing to stop you organising it, sending a link out to date / time of the meet up here if you so chose, it's an Ubuntu mailing list so I assume the meet up would be Ubuntu related of some kind, perhaps you could add the event to the loco team portal. Laura Yes thank you, I'm aware I could do that. However my efforts have been focused at a more local level for the moment. I do wonder if anyone on the nationwide list would be interested in attending something out of the way like this. I'm just saying that where I have spoken to people on the whole their comments tend to sap away a little enthusiasm and a little confidence. It just seems a shame people aren't more positive sometimes. As for my meeting. I will pull out all the stops and make sure everyone knows what's going on once I have a few confirmed locals to get it started. Where are you? Colin -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Not everyone is an expert!
On 22/08/13 17:21, Colin Law wrote: On 22 August 2013 16:31, Gareth France gareth.fra...@gmail.com wrote: Gareth, There is nothing to stop you organising it, sending a link out to date / time of the meet up here if you so chose, it's an Ubuntu mailing list so I assume the meet up would be Ubuntu related of some kind, perhaps you could add the event to the loco team portal. Laura Yes thank you, I'm aware I could do that. However my efforts have been focused at a more local level for the moment. I do wonder if anyone on the nationwide list would be interested in attending something out of the way like this. I'm just saying that where I have spoken to people on the whole their comments tend to sap away a little enthusiasm and a little confidence. It just seems a shame people aren't more positive sometimes. As for my meeting. I will pull out all the stops and make sure everyone knows what's going on once I have a few confirmed locals to get it started. Where are you? Colin High Wycombe, South Bucks. There are meetings in Reading, Oxford, Milton Keynes but nothing I would consider local. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Anybody seen this, thought it might be shown, as nobody has mentioned it on here yet.....
Yep, that's exactly what I meant, if you don't use the 'official' repo then you're open to all manner of 'nasties' ready to infect your PC. Pete M ( :-P ) To: ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com From: psmo...@live.com Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 09:34:31 +0100 Subject: Re: [ubuntu-uk] Anybody seen this, thought it might be shown, as nobody has mentioned it on here yet. On 21/08/13 08:27, Colin Law wrote: On 21 August 2013 04:05, Peter Maddison ponchorat1...@hotmail.com wrote: NOTE the keyword -- IF you install it. Unless you NEVER use the OFFICIAL REPO and are totally careless with your system then there's a VERY high chance you could infect your system with ANY virus. I don't think that is what you meant to say, but I am not sure what you did mean. Colin I think he meant UN-official repos! And I am more fussy today than i was 6 years ago when i first made the leap from windoze do Ubuntu partly because I have now found my favourite packages, and know what I want, partly because I am more aware of the risks! In some ways this has narrowed my view, and I am less likely to experiment with the latest ( possibly greatest) new thing out there, but at least my productivity has improved ;) in short as long as we are aware of the risks, we are (hopefully) all intelligent enough to make an informed choice, and we just have a duty to put the info out there to inform new users of the potential risks of adding random PPA's so they are equally well informed. Pete S (the first one);) -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Anybody seen this, thought it might be shown, as nobody has mentioned it on here yet.....
Are you referring to the guy who wrote the piece or my reply?If my piece, what's wrong with it? Pete Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 10:13:18 +0100 From: scoundrel...@gmail.com To: ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Re: [ubuntu-uk] Anybody seen this, thought it might be shown, as nobody has mentioned it on here yet. Hi, I really dont understand the attitude of attack when somebody posts something like this. Not everybody is competant in using Ubuntu, and not everybody understands the risks involved especially considering for years its been pushed as a safe OS. All i have done is post this to the group, I dont appreciate this attitude. It doesnt give Ubuntu a good light when people see this. On 21/08/2013 04:05, Peter Maddison wrote: NOTE the keyword -- IF you install it. Unless you NEVER use the OFFICIAL REPO and are totally careless with your system then there's a VERY high chance you could infect your system with ANY virus. I like the way he also goes on about it must mean that Linux must becoming a popular OS. and that Window$ gets hacked too. If hacking was THAT bad, Window$ would be no more. But it's STILL here, but do you notice there are virtually NO hacks reported or otherwise on Win95 or higher up to 200 and probably dying out on the XP as there's Vista, 7 and 8 to attack now. Pete (a different one :-) ) To: ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com From: psmo...@live.com Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 22:16:41 +0100 Subject: Re: [ubuntu-uk] Anybody seen this, thought it might be shown, as nobody has mentioned it on here yet. On 20/08/13 17:38, scoundrel50a wrote: http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/linux-and-open-source/hand-of-thief-malware-could-be-dangerous-if-you-install-it/?ftag=TRE475558as_cid=e011tag=nl.e011ttag=e011 Thanks for the heads up first i'd heard of it suppose we all have to be more careful now we are no longer the silent minority but gaining market share! Pete -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Anybody seen this, thought it might be shown, as nobody has mentioned it on here yet.....
Thanks, I don't know what his problem is? Pete From: clan...@googlemail.com Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 11:25:05 +0100 To: ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Re: [ubuntu-uk] Anybody seen this, thought it might be shown, as nobody has mentioned it on here yet. On 21 August 2013 10:13, scoundrel50a scoundrel...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I really dont understand the attitude of attack when somebody posts something like this. Not everybody is competant in using Ubuntu, and not everybody understands the risks involved especially considering for years its been pushed as a safe OS. All i have done is post this to the group, I dont appreciate this attitude. It doesnt give Ubuntu a good light when people see this. I don't think he was talking about you, he was commenting on the article you provided the link for. Colin -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Not everyone is an expert!
On 22 August 2013 18:33, Gareth France gareth.fra...@gmail.com wrote: On 22/08/13 17:21, Colin Law wrote: On 22 August 2013 16:31, Gareth France gareth.fra...@gmail.com wrote: Gareth, There is nothing to stop you organising it, sending a link out to date / time of the meet up here if you so chose, it's an Ubuntu mailing list so I assume the meet up would be Ubuntu related of some kind, perhaps you could add the event to the loco team portal. Laura Yes thank you, I'm aware I could do that. However my efforts have been focused at a more local level for the moment. I do wonder if anyone on the nationwide list would be interested in attending something out of the way like this. I'm just saying that where I have spoken to people on the whole their comments tend to sap away a little enthusiasm and a little confidence. It just seems a shame people aren't more positive sometimes. As for my meeting. I will pull out all the stops and make sure everyone knows what's going on once I have a few confirmed locals to get it started. Where are you? Colin High Wycombe, South Bucks. There are meetings in Reading, Oxford, Milton Keynes but nothing I would consider local. OK, no good me applying to join from 150 miles away then :) Colin -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Not everyone is an expert!
On 22/08/13 20:13, Colin Law wrote: On 22 August 2013 18:33, Gareth France gareth.fra...@gmail.com wrote: On 22/08/13 17:21, Colin Law wrote: On 22 August 2013 16:31, Gareth France gareth.fra...@gmail.com wrote: Gareth, There is nothing to stop you organising it, sending a link out to date / time of the meet up here if you so chose, it's an Ubuntu mailing list so I assume the meet up would be Ubuntu related of some kind, perhaps you could add the event to the loco team portal. Laura Yes thank you, I'm aware I could do that. However my efforts have been focused at a more local level for the moment. I do wonder if anyone on the nationwide list would be interested in attending something out of the way like this. I'm just saying that where I have spoken to people on the whole their comments tend to sap away a little enthusiasm and a little confidence. It just seems a shame people aren't more positive sometimes. As for my meeting. I will pull out all the stops and make sure everyone knows what's going on once I have a few confirmed locals to get it started. Where are you? Colin High Wycombe, South Bucks. There are meetings in Reading, Oxford, Milton Keynes but nothing I would consider local. OK, no good me applying to join from 150 miles away then :) Colin I think you made my point very nicely. The initial steps should be very local. Once I have a venue, date and a few attendees then it's worth announcing it places like here. I'm sure it will happen some time soon. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Not everyone is an expert!
you? Colin High Wycombe, South Bucks. There are meetings in Reading, Oxford, Milton Keynes but nothing I would consider local. OK, no good me applying to join from 150 miles away then :) Colin I think you made my point very nicely. The initial steps should be very local. Once I have a venue, date and a few attendees then it's worth announcing it places like here. I'm sure it will happen some time soon. I'll take the opportunity then to announce that I run little workshops every tuesday evening in Ham. Between Richmond and Kingston upon Thames. We help people with IT, encourage FLOSS and do little projects for the comunity (garduino, reprap 3d printer). Might open more days if it proves popular. Anybody is wellcome to join. http://www.meetup.com/KingsofHack/ And http://www.hamunitedgroup.org.uk/ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Not everyone is an expert!
On 22/08/13 15:59, Gareth France wrote: It's not just here. I have seen this in other online forums. It seems that when you require the help the most is when certain individuals have the least patience. I shall continue to lurk but I'm afraid that my enthusiasm for engaging in conversation is not what it once was. I second this, I have come across the get lost and use google brigade even when asking for advice based on peoples personal experiences, with something. its really off putting,. I have however found this forum friendly and helpful so in this context it is OTHER forums where I have had problems. but end of the day it's still the GNU/Linux community that looks bad. Paul I am in a dead area for user groups and would like to start one up. I feel it would be a great help to have something physical where people can go for help, support and encouragement. However whenever I mention this and try to push for it I just get hit with a whole lot of negative comments and lethargy. Nobody seems willing to support the idea at all and I think it's a real shame. There seems to be a lot of laziness and 'let somebody else deal with it' attitude going on. I'm more than happy to set one up but it's not easy when you don't have any proof that anybody else will even turn up! We all need to remember at all times that when we talk on these forums, chat rooms, web pages that we are representing the brand (whichever floats your boat) and so should keep it positive, constructive and supportive at all times. If any of us feels the need to drag the tone down we really shouldn't be doing so in such a public way, keep it 1 on 1. Yeah devon ./ cornwall is a bit like that, i organize meetings in Paignton once a month, 1 just find a venue, and organise a date time, then promote it, i do that with the paignton meets it varies between just me, 2 of us, or a group of 5, 10 or 10+ depending on when the meeting is. It is helpful to say what the venue provides, as in food / drink, is it child friendly (remember pubs may not allow under 14's in and sometimes people may bring their kids due to no choice or its the kids who may have the interest is there wifi, (free), you usually have to buy something and then ask for the wifi info. parking (see if you can provide info on parking) power sockets etc, (good for meetings,) Can people plug in things like laptops etc, trust me some lug meets we end up with tables full of wires, cables, robots, laptops and other bits of tech, lol I am beginning to think promoting it as a Linux meeting may put people off, comparing how many goto the exeter pi jams to exeter lug meets (far more at the former), so it may be worth looking in to how you name it, computer group meeting, covers Windows, Mac, Linux, raspberry pi, could attract people, will the venue be ok to plug in laptops etc so maybe set it up differently, http://plymouthwebdev.org/ group for example have a simple webpage and a monthly meeting buit you just follow them on twitter, it may be easier, and people then join that group So it may be a case of something like that, so you're not Linux specific, but can suggest a Open source bias (ruby is open source for example) so you then appeal to a wider audience, if you want to attract raspberry pi users, make sure the venue is family friendly (and have a policy from the start that kids come with parents) they should anyway, print a poster with computer group name, meeting here, mine has a pic of tux, then make sure you have something by a table where you are, let staff know too so they can direct people, maybe wear a t-shirt that looks geeky Once you have a group meeting socially then take it from there. I am tied up with rugby for most of the year but I arrange the meet on the 2nd satuday regardless, the group still meet up without me and do their own thing, but its regular, Hope this helps and good luck, don't be dis-hartened by lack of attendance initially, once you get going advertise in local papers, put up posters and maybe even let schools know as there are technicians and teaches who are getting in to all this too. Paul -- -- http://www.zleap.net http://www.linkedin.com/pub/paul-sutton/36/595/911 Software freedom day event - 21st September 2013 - http://exeter.lug.org.uk/ I am committed to safeguarding children, young people and vulnerable groups and expect any school or establishment I am involved with to share this commitment. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Not everyone is an expert!
On 22/08/13 22:57, Paul Sutton wrote: I am beginning to think promoting it as a Linux meeting may put people off, comparing how many goto the exeter pi jams to exeter lug meets (far more at the former), so it may be worth looking in to how you name it, computer group meeting, covers Windows, Mac, Linux, raspberry pi, could attract people, I have toyed with how to promote it and I'm currently leaning towards the idea of promoting as a LUG within the linux community and as something more general to the wider public. Then run it as something fairly flexible with a FOSS bias. I don't think anything I organise would be PI/kids orientated. The venue I currently have in mind is a pub. Though I would be thrilled if someone else were to pick up on that and perhaps run something side by side. The pub I have in mind has a second bar that would be suitable for use, free wifi and we should be able to plug in. So I suspect we would meet in the downstairs bar and move up if the numbers warranted it. Starting off as purely social but I'd hope that as we got some regulars there they may bring their interests and talents to it and we may find a more hands on agenda. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/