Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground "remote publish" feedback from discord

Ben could you please OK the PR ? > On 9 Dec 2018, at 13:13, Ben Coman wrote: > > > > On Sun, 9 Dec 2018 at 18:31, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > > > > On 8 Dec 2018, at 17:55, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > > > > Maybe an additional menu item somewhere ? > > Or a little bit more API. >

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground "remote publish" feedback from discord

https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/2057 https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/22750/Add-GTPlayground-class-openUrl Note that this is actually more universal than the specific website/webservice we are currently using. It works for any web resource that is returning text/plain documents. Fo

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground "remote publish" feedback from discord

On Sun, 9 Dec 2018 at 18:31, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > > > > On 8 Dec 2018, at 17:55, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > > > > Maybe an additional menu item somewhere ? > > Or a little bit more API. > > Right now with the standard GT infrastructure in Pharo 7 (and Pharo 6.1 > also I guess), you

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground "remote publish" feedback from discord

> On 8 Dec 2018, at 17:55, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > > Maybe an additional menu item somewhere ? Or a little bit more API. Right now with the standard GT infrastructure in Pharo 7 (and Pharo 6.1 also I guess), you can do GTPlayground openOn: (GTPlayPage loadFromPublishUrl: 'http://

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground "remote publish" feedback from discord

On Sun, 9 Dec 2018 at 00:56, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > Ben, > > > On 8 Dec 2018, at 17:19, Ben Coman wrote: > > > > On discord a user provided some feedback... > > > > when you post anything to ws.stfx.eu - e.g. here: > http://ws.stfx.eu/CJGVYTTQD3RY - the page says that I should use > "ZnW

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground "remote publish" feedback from discord

Ben, > On 8 Dec 2018, at 17:19, Ben Coman wrote: > > On discord a user provided some feedback... > > when you post anything to ws.stfx.eu - e.g. here: > http://ws.stfx.eu/CJGVYTTQD3RY - the page says that I should use "ZnWorkspace > openUrl: 'http://ws.stfx.eu/CJGVYTTQD3RY'." to retrieve it.

[Pharo-dev] Playground "remote publish" feedback from discord

On discord a user provided some feedback... when you post anything to ws.stfx.eu - e.g. here: http://ws.stfx.eu/CJGVYTTQD3RY - the page says that I should use "ZnWorkspace openUrl: 'http://ws.stfx.eu/CJGVYTTQD3RY'." to retrieve it. However, there is no class called "ZnWorkspace" in Pharo 6.1 so th

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground and text evaluation printing result default.

Hi, > On Jun 10, 2016, at 8:48 AM, stepharo wrote: > Hi Stef, Thanks for the feedback. Sorry for the long email, but I you raised several issues and I thought it is worth addressing them. The feature we are talking about came into being after several sugges

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground and text evaluation printing result default.

Hi Stef, Thanks for the feedback. Sorry for the long email, but I you raised several issues and I thought it is worth addressing them. The feature we are talking about came into being after several suggestions on this mailing list (and quite some long discussions) that had the scenario of k

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground and text evaluation printing result default.

Hi, > On Jun 8, 2016, at 8:44 AM, stepharo wrote: > >> >> Hi Stef, >> >> Thanks for the feedback. Sorry for the long email, but I you raised several >> issues and I thought it is worth addressing them. >> >> The feature we are talking about came into being after several suggestions >> on th

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground and text evaluation printing result default.

Hi, > On Jun 8, 2016, at 9:12 AM, stepharo wrote: > > Le 8/6/16 à 09:04, stepharo a écrit : > >> This is incorrect. If you would not complain aggressively, we would simply >> have a smoother conversation about solutions. > My final point: > >Aggressivity is often the result of not being

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground and text evaluation printing result default.

2016-06-08 19:45 GMT+02:00 stepharo : > Hi nicolai > > Indeed we need on way to define "menuItem action" > > I do not know if it should be bound to shortcut but it should have a > shortcut. > > I saw that Glamour has one way, the core other ways and probably Spec a > third one. > > So this is real

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground and text evaluation printing result default.

Le 8/6/16 à 11:33, Esteban Lorenzano a écrit : On 08 Jun 2016, at 09:04, stepharo > wrote: the fact that I cannot access Spotter without hurting my hand it is also probably why I do not try more. yeah, shortcut has to be configurable, for people with big hands :)

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground and text evaluation printing result default.

Hi nicolai Indeed we need on way to define "menuItem action" I do not know if it should be bound to shortcut but it should have a shortcut. I saw that Glamour has one way, the core other ways and probably Spec a third one. So this is really confusing. With guille we discussed a while ago

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground and text evaluation printing result default.

2016-06-08 19:11 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba : > Yes, we already agreed on that both for the debugger and for Spotter. We > just did not get the chance to do it yet. > Hey Doru, about your report https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/18455 Spotter shortcuts should be externalized as settings Please don't

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground and text evaluation printing result default.

Yes, we already agreed on that both for the debugger and for Spotter. We just did not get the chance to do it yet. Doru > On Jun 8, 2016, at 11:33 AM, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: > > >> On 08 Jun 2016, at 09:04, stepharo wrote: >> >> the fact that I cannot access Spotter without hurting my h

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground and text evaluation printing result default.

Hi, Thanks. Interesting. I do not yet see it yet, but there is something intriguing about it. It would be interesting to play with this in more details. Cheers, Tudor > On Jun 8, 2016, at 12:24 PM, Ben Coman wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 2:01 PM, Tudor Girba wrote: >> Hi, >> >>> On Ju

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground and text evaluation printing result default.

On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 2:01 PM, Tudor Girba wrote: > Hi, > >> On Jun 8, 2016, at 2:04 AM, Ben Coman wrote: >> >> On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 5:39 AM, Tudor Girba wrote: >>> Hi Sven, >>> >>> If I understand correctly, Stef talks about the case of building tests in >>> the debugger. There he tries an

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground and text evaluation printing result default.

> On 08 Jun 2016, at 09:04, stepharo wrote: > > the fact that I cannot access Spotter without hurting my hand it is also > probably why I do not try more. yeah, shortcut has to be configurable, for people with big hands :)

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground and text evaluation printing result default.

Le 8/6/16 à 09:04, stepharo a écrit : This is incorrect. If you would not complain aggressively, we would simply have a smoother conversation about solutions. My final point: Aggressivity is often the result of not being heard. So now you can argue that you listen :) But I decided that

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground and text evaluation printing result default.

"La perfection n'est atteinte non pas quand il n'y a plus rien a ajouter mais plus rien a enlever" Saint Exupery. I'm curious to see the results of the data you collected about spotter usage. Because we have around 50 processors and may be we need more? Who knows. Personnally I succeeded to

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground and text evaluation printing result default.

You remember certainly this book that said that most users are looking at ui the same way that we see a bear dansing in tutu while it should be a classical dancer with grace. So users adapt to things even if some of them are hurting them. I don't. I do not like that I have to fight to get thi

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground and text evaluation printing result default.

Hi Stef, Thanks for the feedback. Sorry for the long email, but I you raised several issues and I thought it is worth addressing them. The feature we are talking about came into being after several suggestions on this mailing list (and quite some long discussions) that had the scenario of k

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground and text evaluation printing result default.

Hi, > On Jun 8, 2016, at 2:04 AM, Ben Coman wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 5:39 AM, Tudor Girba wrote: >> Hi Sven, >> >> If I understand correctly, Stef talks about the case of building tests in >> the debugger. There he tries an expression and then wants to capture the >> result of the e

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground and text evaluation printing result default.

On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 5:39 AM, Tudor Girba wrote: > Hi Sven, > > If I understand correctly, Stef talks about the case of building tests in the > debugger. There he tries an expression and then wants to capture the result > of the expression as an assertion in the code so he wants to paste the r

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground and text evaluation printing result default.

Hi Sven, If I understand correctly, Stef talks about the case of building tests in the debugger. There he tries an expression and then wants to capture the result of the expression as an assertion in the code so he wants to paste the result directly. It is a different scenario than the one of c

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground and text evaluation printing result default.

Hi Stef, Thanks for the feedback. Sorry for the long email, but I you raised several issues and I thought it is worth addressing them. The feature we are talking about came into being after several suggestions on this mailing list (and quite some long discussions) that had the scenario of keep

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground and text evaluation printing result default.

The #printString of most objects is not valid Pharo syntax, it makes sense to put those into comments, so that the overall syntax of the workspace/playground is maintained and syntax highlighting can operate normally. A result printed as a comment is also easy to select (by double-clicking next

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground and text evaluation printing result default.

On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 2:09 PM, stepharo wrote: > > > Le 5/6/16 à 23:00, Tudor Girba a écrit : >> >> Hi Stef, >> >> The quotes appear only when you add the result in the playground. > > > No need to explain I'm not idiot and I know it. >> >> The typical use case for this is to keep track of severa

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground and text evaluation printing result default.

Le 5/6/16 à 23:00, Tudor Girba a écrit : Hi Stef, The quotes appear only when you add the result in the playground. No need to explain I'm not idiot and I know it. The typical use case for this is to keep track of several results. No need to explain I'm not idiot and I know it. In this si

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground and text evaluation printing result default.

Hi Stef, The quotes appear only when you add the result in the playground. The typical use case for this is to keep track of several results. In this situation you do not want to modify the code to not affect the highlighting and this is why it gets in a comment. If you want to copy the conten

[Pharo-dev] Playground and text evaluation printing result default.

Hi I would like to know if there is a setting to remove the "" when printing the result of an expression. I know that playground has been thought to help me, but today I watched myself removing the comments code so often that I would like to get a setting because such wrapping of results i

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground key binding...

May be it was in Pharo 20. I changed the logic associated with the keybinding. I will see if I can dive into it but I would like to finish the Pharo tour chapter first Le 19/1/16 11:31, Tudor Girba a écrit : Hi, The current logic is not specific to the playground, it is the same in all other

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground key binding...

Le 19/1/16 09:58, Guillermo Polito a écrit : I agree, I think that "browse class or trait” and “implementors” should both be => “go to implementation” And “senders” and “class references” should both be => “look for references” The only difference is that today one works for selectors and th

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground key binding...

> On 19 Jan 2016, at 09:58, Guillermo Polito wrote: > > I think that "browse class or trait” and “implementors” should both be => “go > to implementation” > And “senders” and “class references” should both be => “look for references” Excellent analysis and simplification of actions and termino

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground key binding...

Hi, The current logic is not specific to the playground, it is the same in all other tools. This probably got lost before we introduced GT because I do not find the logic in Pharo 3.0 either. It would be interesting to salvage this logic. Could someone point me to it? Cheers, Doru > On Jan

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground key binding...

I agree, I think that "browse class or trait” and “implementors” should both be => “go to implementation” And “senders” and “class references” should both be => “look for references” The only difference is that today one works for selectors and the other for classes. But we can be polymorphic i

[Pharo-dev] Playground key binding...

Hi a really handy keybinding was CMD-b on class to browse a class such key binding was smart enough to see that when this is not a class binding but a symbol it was performing an implementor Why should I know when the system can do it for me? Same CMD-m is doing first a i

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Playground] Getting contents from the cloud?

On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 9:08 PM, Peter Uhnák wrote: > > > On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 2:32 PM, Sean P. DeNigris > wrote: >> >> vonbecmann wrote >> > GREAT! >> >> Yes, isn't it!? >> >> >> vonbecmann wrote >> > (what a dummy!) >> >> Not at all. We are terrible at documenting all our amazing feature

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Playground] Getting contents from the cloud?

On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 2:32 PM, Sean P. DeNigris wrote: > vonbecmann wrote > > GREAT! > > Yes, isn't it!? > > > vonbecmann wrote > > (what a dummy!) > > Not at all. We are terrible at documenting all our amazing features. How > would one guess that besides the fact that Spotter can do everyt

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Playground] Getting contents from the cloud?

vonbecmann wrote > GREAT! Yes, isn't it!? vonbecmann wrote > (what a dummy!) Not at all. We are terrible at documenting all our amazing features. How would one guess that besides the fact that Spotter can do everything but open your beer bottle? - Cheers, Sean -- View this message in

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Playground] Getting contents from the cloud?

GREAT! (what a dummy!) thanks. On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Peter Uhnák wrote: > Paste the link into GTSpotter and press enter :) > > Peter > > On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 8:31 PM, Bernardo Ezequiel Contreras < > vonbecm...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi all, >>There is a button to publish t

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Playground] Getting contents from the cloud?

Paste the link into GTSpotter and press enter :) Peter On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 8:31 PM, Bernardo Ezequiel Contreras < vonbecm...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi all, >There is a button to publish the contents of the playground to the > cloud but there isn't a button to get the contents from the cloud

[Pharo-dev] [Playground] Getting contents from the cloud?

Hi all, There is a button to publish the contents of the playground to the cloud but there isn't a button to get the contents from the cloud? Is that on purpose? i don't get it. -- Bernardo E.C. Sent from a cheap desktop computer in South America.

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground shift yellow menu throws MNU

That's a bug. This support should be removed. Doru On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 1:26 PM, Peter Uhnák wrote: > Hi, > > TextModel allows for right (yellow) click menu with shift which gives > another menu. > Now Playground (which uses Rubric) throws > GLMRubricSmalltalkTextModel(Object)>>doesNotUnders

[Pharo-dev] Playground shift yellow menu throws MNU

Hi, TextModel allows for right (yellow) click menu with shift which gives another menu. Now Playground (which uses Rubric) throws GLMRubricSmalltalkTextModel(Object)>>doesNotUnderstand: #shiftMenu. (called from RubEditingArea>>lookupShiftMenu) I would expect either adding new shifted menu, or dis

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground request - ivar references to

2015-05-04 15:33 GMT+02:00 Ben Coman : > This doesn't hurt me enough to try to do it myself yet, but one thing I > feel it would be natural to do in Raw view would be to have a to> context menu item for the instance variables, or even better like the > debugger have and . > > btw I notice those

[Pharo-dev] Playground request - ivar references to

This doesn't hurt me enough to try to do it myself yet, but one thing I feel it would be natural to do in Raw view would be to have a context menu item for the instance variables, or even better like the debugger have and . btw I notice those last two actually are missing from GTDebugger and I m

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground and its current usability in Pharo4.0 Latest update: #40307

Tudor Girba-2 wrote > I do not quite understand. Could you elaborate such a case? When writing a conditional that is true in the current image state, e.g. Smalltalk imageFile base = 'foo' ifTrue: [] it's quite convenient to write: Smalltalk imageFile base then PrintIt, left arrow and type ' ='

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground opening issue

orks for me too :) >>> I checked it in Pharo4.0 (Latest update: #40592) >>> Thanks >>> >>> On Fri, Apr 3, 2015 at 1:30 AM, Franck Warlouzet < >>> franck.warlou...@hotmail.fr> wrote: >>> >>>> Nice it works, thank you ! >

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground opening issue

>>> Nice it works, thank you ! >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Franck >>> >>> ------ >>> Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2015 21:34:11 +0200 >>> From: tu...@tudorgirba.com >>> To: pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org >>> S

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground opening issue

< > franck.warlou...@hotmail.fr> wrote: > >> Nice it works, thank you ! >> >> Cheers, >> Franck >> >> -- >> Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2015 21:34:11 +0200 >> From: tu...@tudorgirba.com >> To: pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground opening issue

, 2 Apr 2015 21:34:11 +0200 > From: tu...@tudorgirba.com > To: pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org > Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground opening issue > > > Ok. A fix is committed: > > Name: GT-Playground-TudorGirba.102 > Author: TudorGirba > Time: 2 April 2015, 9:32:45.226868 pm

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground opening issue

Nice it works, thank you ! Cheers, Franck Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2015 21:34:11 +0200 From: tu...@tudorgirba.com To: pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground opening issue Ok. A fix is committed: Name: GT-Playground-TudorGirba.102Author: TudorGirbaTime: 2 April 2015, 9:32

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground opening issue

gbugz.com/f/cases/15281/Playground-opening-issue >> >> -- >> From: franck.warlou...@hotmail.fr >> To: pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org >> Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2015 15:26:31 +0200 >> Subject: [Pharo-dev] Playground opening issue >> >> >> H

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground opening issue

> From: franck.warlou...@hotmail.fr > To: pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org > Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2015 15:26:31 +0200 > Subject: [Pharo-dev] Playground opening issue > > > Hello, > > Open a new Playground when one of the others is already opened is ok, but > if all of the Playgroun

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground opening issue

I opened a Fogbugz entry : https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15281/Playground-opening-issue From: franck.warlou...@hotmail.fr To: pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2015 15:26:31 +0200 Subject: [Pharo-dev] Playground opening issue Hello, Open a new Playground when one of the others

[Pharo-dev] Playground opening issue

Hello, Open a new Playground when one of the others is already opened is ok, but if all of the Playgrounds are minimalized, the new one will be opened very very small (Too small to be used). Cheers, Franck

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground do-it-and-go alternative name

+1 Go play and home (stef's idea for the tab title) ... much much more friendly than workspace and do it. :) Le 29/03/2015 08:07, Ben Coman a écrit : Just sharing a passing thought... Given that we have "Play"ground, an alternative name for might be - except it competes with for the most o

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground do-it-and-go alternative name

Ben Seems to be a nice idea :) On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 11:37 AM, Ben Coman wrote: > Just sharing a passing thought... Given that we have "Play"ground, an > alternative name for might be - except it competes > with for the most obvious shortcut. A further alternative may be > ". > > cheers -

[Pharo-dev] Playground do-it-and-go alternative name

Just sharing a passing thought... Given that we have "Play"ground, an alternative name for might be - except it competes with for the most obvious shortcut. A further alternative may be ". cheers -ben

Re: [Pharo-dev] playground vs workspace

go go go change the game :) Stef Le 8/12/14 13:26, Tudor Girba a écrit : Hi, We do not yet have an IDE (where I stands for integrated). We have a set of tools and some of them are quite strong. But, we do not have an overall experience yet. Yes, the underlying language model does offer a b

Re: [Pharo-dev] playground vs workspace

With all due respect for the other Smalltalk (inspired or genuine) environments, I have no intention of waiting for them in order to define the way forward. + 1 Our "battle" is with the non-Smalltalk world. This is what we need to convince. And that world does not care about the history

Re: [Pharo-dev] playground vs workspace

For me a note can be a program. An expression that I want to get around and if I write it in a workspace and not in the system browser this is because I want it So workspace should be rename Sticky Le 9/12/14 05:46, Sean P. DeNigris a écrit : stepharo wrote I would like to have playground be

Re: [Pharo-dev] playground vs workspace

You see for me the old "workspace" is where I type stuff that I want to keep around because in the textEditor I can do the same but when I click they go away :) For example I often do not care about inspecting the result of what I typed and I do not want something complex. So to me the old works

Re: [Pharo-dev] playground vs workspace

This is precisely the way we should look at tools: we should identify why we need that tool, but not necessarily stick with the tool. For example, people said a while ago that the Workspace is better than the Playground for searching for things like implementors. While that might have been the

Re: [Pharo-dev] playground vs workspace

I wouldn't spend much more time deciding whether to call it playground or workspace, maybe there is a third and better alternative we're not considering. "Playground" evokes me a child space, nonetheless "Light table" isn't a better name. IMO, regardless of the name you choose, with the proper us

Re: [Pharo-dev] playground vs workspace

stepharo wrote > I would like to have playground be named playground and that we keep > "workspace" but I would like to change the name to "SimpleNoteEditor". I like this idea, but think it needs to be developed further. For instance, I would expect syntax highlighting and code completion to be o

Re: [Pharo-dev] playground vs workspace

Tudor Girba-2 wrote > the future coding solution will unlikely be called System Browser - :). For the sake of new users, I wish it was ;) Not that I don't appreciate feeling like I'm at the beach when I have to be in an office working with Pharo ha ha - Cheers, Sean -- View this message in

Re: [Pharo-dev] playground vs workspace

kilon.alios wrote > I said there is no official documentation, no chapter on PBE or Pharo for > the Enterprise. I see the point. Looking from a new user perspective, how would someone who has not followed the mailing lists for the last few years know that e.g.: - there are two Spec papers, one (wh

Re: [Pharo-dev] playground vs workspace

For me Playground is not even related to what is a Workspace. Therefore these two tools deserve different name in my opinion. Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > On Dec 8, 20

Re: [Pharo-dev] playground vs workspace

> However, it is precisely those different opinions that are valuable even if > it is uncomfortable for the one that proposes a new solution. Yes, and this is how leaders are judged :-) Alexandre > > > On Mon, Dec 8, 2014 at 2:18 PM, Alexandre Bergel > wrote:

Re: [Pharo-dev] playground vs workspace

My only objection was the documentation but since we cleared this up you have 100% my support , my faith and my trust. Frankly I have voiced several concerns with GTPlayground because there was things I was missing from workspace and you were prompt to fix those issues and fast and efficiently , I

Re: [Pharo-dev] playground vs workspace

2014-12-09 11:06 GMT+01:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe : > > > On 08 Dec 2014, at 22:53, Tudor Girba wrote: > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > My intention was to have a discussion based on arguments and to ask for > permission to change something I believe in. If I give the impression that > I want to name

Re: [Pharo-dev] playground vs workspace

> On 08 Dec 2014, at 22:53, Tudor Girba wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > My intention was to have a discussion based on arguments and to ask for > permission to change something I believe in. If I give the impression that I > want to name for the sake of naming, I am sorry. And I am sorry I had to

Re: [Pharo-dev] playground vs workspace

Hi everyone, My intention was to have a discussion based on arguments and to ask for permission to change something I believe in. If I give the impression that I want to name for the sake of naming, I am sorry. And I am sorry I had to disturb so many people with my infatuation. At the same time,

Re: [Pharo-dev] playground vs workspace

Hi, We do not yet have an IDE (where I stands for integrated). We have a set of tools and some of them are quite strong. But, we do not have an overall experience yet. Yes, the underlying language model does offer a beautiful experience, but the experience of the tools is far from that. We need t

Re: [Pharo-dev] playground vs workspace

"Our "battle" is with the non-Smalltalk world. This is what we need to convince. And that world does not care about the history of Smalltalk. It cares about how we can solve their problem. That's all." But you already offer an impressive arsenal of tools. The world can complain for several things

Re: [Pharo-dev] playground vs workspace

Hello Doru, I think you have a new different implementation of the classic Workspace, for better or worst. The problem is everybody wants their tool be named as the highest taxonomic rank. Compare it with naming your cat as "Cat" and not as Siamese Felis Catus which is a specific breed. On the o

Re: [Pharo-dev] playground vs workspace

> Am 08.12.2014 um 20:36 schrieb Andreas Wacknitz : > > >> Am 08.12.2014 um 20:27 schrieb Tudor Girba : >> >> Hi Andreas, >> >> With all due respect for the other Smalltalk (inspired or genuine) >> environments, I have no intention of waiting for them in order to define the >> way forward. >

Re: [Pharo-dev] playground vs workspace

> Am 08.12.2014 um 20:27 schrieb Tudor Girba : > > Hi Andreas, > > With all due respect for the other Smalltalk (inspired or genuine) > environments, I have no intention of waiting for them in order to define the > way forward. It’s not about respect for the other Smalltalk environments but fo

Re: [Pharo-dev] playground vs workspace

Hi Andreas, With all due respect for the other Smalltalk (inspired or genuine) environments, I have no intention of waiting for them in order to define the way forward. Our "battle" is with the non-Smalltalk world. This is what we need to convince. And that world does not care about the history o

Re: [Pharo-dev] playground vs workspace

Indeed :). However, it is precisely those different opinions that are valuable even if it is uncomfortable for the one that proposes a new solution. Cheers, Doru On Mon, Dec 8, 2014 at 2:18 PM, Alexandre Bergel wrote: > This is amazing to see such many different opinions. For me, I would keep

Re: [Pharo-dev] playground vs workspace

> Am 08.12.2014 um 07:18 schrieb Tudor Girba : > > Hi, > > As you might see, the GTPlayground is called playground not workspace. The > main reason for this is that workspace implies the place where work is done, > and work is typically associated with creating code. For me GTPlayground is a r

Re: [Pharo-dev] playground vs workspace

Hi, On Mon, Dec 8, 2014 at 4:51 PM, Torsten Bergmann wrote: > >And Playground would match so well the marketing term of "playing with > live objects". > > Sorry - but to me it looks like you were catched too much into: now we > have to be more modern > or rival with all this "lively" stuff (Ligh

Re: [Pharo-dev] playground vs workspace

Doru wrote: >Please look at the mail I sent to Torsten for a more thorough description of >my reasoning. For example, I do not like that >it implies that this is *the* >place where work happens, and this is clearly not the case. Think about your arguments. You mentioned that workspace is not the

Re: [Pharo-dev] playground vs workspace

>And Playground would match so well the marketing term of "playing with live >objects". Sorry - but to me it looks like you were catched too much into: now we have to be more modern or rival with all this "lively" stuff (Lighttable IDE, Apple Swift, ...). We all know that being "lively" is som

Re: [Pharo-dev] playground vs workspace

Hi Sven, Thanks for the kind words. Doru On Mon, Dec 8, 2014 at 2:33 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > More documentation is always better, but you can hardly accuse Doru from > trying, he is making an excellent effort in explaining what he does and > why, this is a lot of work, and I appreci

Re: [Pharo-dev] playground vs workspace

Hi, Please look at the mail I sent to Torsten for a more thorough description of my reasoning. For example, I do not like that it implies that this is *the* place where work happens, and this is clearly not the case. Yes, I use the playground extensively for so many use cases. I do not miss the W

Re: [Pharo-dev] playground vs workspace

Exactly! This is precisely the way we should look at tools: we should identify why we need that tool, but not necessarily stick with the tool. For example, people said a while ago that the Workspace is better than the Playground for searching for things like implementors. While that might have be

Re: [Pharo-dev] playground vs workspace

"Hi Kilon, Please, let's get positive :)." I dont believe in being positive or negative can help. I think being open minded and seeing and exploring problems is far more reliable way to improve. I also believe that reporting a real problem is far more beneficial to a community than hiding it away

Re: [Pharo-dev] playground vs workspace

Hi Doru, I do not understand exactly what the difference is or why you wouldn't call GTPlayground " a Workspace". As I think you are using GTPlayground very extensively: Do YOU use the Workspace at all ? Do YOU miss something in GTPlayground, where you would say: "Yes, only a workspace should d

Re: [Pharo-dev] playground vs workspace

Hi, This was a long mail :). I tried to address your points below. On Mon, Dec 8, 2014 at 10:55 AM, Torsten Bergmann wrote: > I would go the opposite direction and rename the "Playground" window to > "Workspace". > > Several reasons: > >1. "Playground" reminds me too much on toyish things

Re: [Pharo-dev] playground vs workspace

Le 8/12/14 05:43, stepharo a écrit : Hi doru I would like to have playground be named playground and that we keep "workspace" but I would like to change the name to "SimpleNoteEditor". Why because this is always good to have simple tools to read from? (I'm not talking about the current worksp

Re: [Pharo-dev] playground vs workspace

+1 And there is plenty of blog post to turn them into chapters. If everything we produce would have this documentation quality I would not be worried. Le 8/12/14 05:33, Sven Van Caekenberghe a écrit : More documentation is always better, but you can hardly accuse Doru from trying, he is makin

Re: [Pharo-dev] playground vs workspace

Hi doru I would like to have playground be named playground and that we keep "workspace" but I would like to change the name to "SimpleNoteEditor". I do not like the idea that we are all forced to use one single tools. We are adults. Stef Hi, As you might see, the GTPlayground is called pl

Re: [Pharo-dev] playground vs workspace

I do not completely buy the documentation argument. It is not a big deal saying when you read “Workspace” in a book, it is actually “Playground”. People even figure this out alone. The code browser mentioned in Pharo by example is fairly different from the one we have currently. It even has a di

Re: [Pharo-dev] playground vs workspace

More documentation is always better, but you can hardly accuse Doru from trying, he is making an excellent effort in explaining what he does and why, this is a lot of work, and I appreciate it very much. Note that he is also trying to convince others of alternative/new/experimental ideas, which

Re: [Pharo-dev] playground vs workspace

Ok… several things :) First, I want to say that in this special case I tend to be in agreement with Torsten. Because I also see playground as an evolution of the good old workspace. Also, most documentation still refers to that area as “workspace” and not “playground”… and honestly I still do n

Re: [Pharo-dev] playground vs workspace

Hi Kilon, Please, let's get positive :). I really do not see how your remarks apply to the current situation. We put quite some effort in documenting GT tools through posts on the humane assessment blog (in the meantime, the page should be more reliable - I hope) and through examples in the image

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