Re: (313) mad mike interview link
Thanks for posting that, I found it very moving. On 12 Feb 2007, at 17:38, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: don't know if it was posted before for all UR chobo's around http://www.de-bug.de/texte/4639.html
(313) By Popular Request: DJ Milton/DJ Urban Rowdy Rowdy Mix Tap
http://www.cornwarning.com/xfer/DJMilton-DJUrban-RowdyRowdy.mp3 NOTE: This is uploading as I send this message and will not be available until 0400 GMT, or 10PM US CST (11PM EST). This tape was produced during the time when Milton was living in Iowa. You can hear him in the first half shouting out a 319 phone number -- that was his home phone # in Cedar Rapids,IA. I don't remember dates exactly but Milton moved to Iowa in 1998 or thereabouts, and became a popular DJ on the Iowa scene. He brought out several of the DanceMania DJs to shows in Iowa. In addition to DJing Milton was working with at-risk teens in Cedar Rapids. Then on, a trip back to Chicago a few years back, he was arrested and convicted of murder. It turns out that before moving to Iowa, someone had stolen a van containing all of Milton's gear. I don't know all the details of what went down, but apparently Milton and others found the guy who stole the van, beat him, and threw him out of an upper-story window in a Chicago project. All of the DanceMania guys grew up in very rough circumstances where violence was common, but every one of those guys I met seemed very chill and pleasant to hang out with, Milton included. I used to hang out with Milton in his studio and help him with software such on his computers, and he was always a complete sweetheart to me. It's really hard to reconcile the Milton I knew with the crime he was convicted of. Mostly I feel bad for his wife and five children. By the time Milton gets out his kids will mostly be grown. I hope that he survives prison and is able to pick up the pieces of his life eventually.
(313) re: gospel in techno
How about Madonna 303 Praise the Lord (Temple NYC) http://www.discogs.com/release/32691 best. jan andersson
Re: (313) By Popular Request: DJ Milton/DJ Urban Rowdy Rowdy Mix Tap
ugh, what a story. when keeping it real goes wrong or what... thanks for the tape - the deeon mix has gotta be re-recorded cause the mp3 i already is lousy, lousy, lousy. ronny http://www.cornwarning.com/xfer/DJMilton-DJUrban-RowdyRowdy.mp3 NOTE: This is uploading as I send this message and will not be available until 0400 GMT, or 10PM US CST (11PM EST). This tape was produced during the time when Milton was living in Iowa. You can hear him in the first half shouting out a 319 phone number -- that was his home phone # in Cedar Rapids,IA. I don't remember dates exactly but Milton moved to Iowa in 1998 or thereabouts, and became a popular DJ on the Iowa scene. He brought out several of the DanceMania DJs to shows in Iowa. In addition to DJing Milton was working with at-risk teens in Cedar Rapids. Then on, a trip back to Chicago a few years back, he was arrested and convicted of murder. It turns out that before moving to Iowa, someone had stolen a van containing all of Milton's gear. I don't know all the details of what went down, but apparently Milton and others found the guy who stole the van, beat him, and threw him out of an upper-story window in a Chicago project. All of the DanceMania guys grew up in very rough circumstances where violence was common, but every one of those guys I met seemed very chill and pleasant to hang out with, Milton included. I used to hang out with Milton in his studio and help him with software such on his computers, and he was always a complete sweetheart to me. It's really hard to reconcile the Milton I knew with the crime he was convicted of. Mostly I feel bad for his wife and five children. By the time Milton gets out his kids will mostly be grown. I hope that he survives prison and is able to pick up the pieces of his life eventually.
RE: (313) mad mike interview link
This line I thought was the most pertinent in the whole interview. We need our city and manufacturing leaders to travel overseas and to realize what Mass Transit means to a city. We don`t have it and we have land locked communities, with land locked thoughts and values. There is no interaction unless you have the luxury of a car which a lot of people can`t afford. The situation is grey. -Original Message- From: Dan Bean [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 13 February 2007 00:18 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) mad mike interview link Thanks for posting that, I found it very moving. On 12 Feb 2007, at 17:38, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: don't know if it was posted before for all UR chobo's around http://www.de-bug.de/texte/4639.html For all the latest news and comment visit telegraph.co.uk, the UK's most visited quality newspaper website. This e-mail is from Telegraph Media Group Limited - 111 Buckingham Palace Road, London, SW1W 0DT registered in England under No 451593. This message, its contents and any attachments to it are private and confidential. Any unauthorised disclosure, use or dissemination of the whole or part of this message (without our prior written consent) is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us immediately. Neither we nor the sender accepts any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). The content of this email does not necessarily reflect our views or those of our officers and we take no responsibility for the views of the author. Emails sent and received may be read by people other than the intended recipient and may be monitored to ensure efficient operation of our email systems. Incoming and outgoing telephone calls to our offices may be monitored or recorded for training and quality control purposes and for confirming orders and information.
Re: (313) mad mike interview link
It would be great if the people mover actually moved people places. It looks ace. http://www.thepeoplemover.com/ robin... Toby Frith wrote: This line I thought was the most pertinent in the whole interview. We need our city and manufacturing leaders to travel overseas and to realize what Mass Transit means to a city. We don`t have it and we have land locked communities, with land locked thoughts and values. There is no interaction unless you have the luxury of a car which a lot of people can`t afford. The situation is grey.
Re: (313) mad mike interview link
Everybody in Detroit knows the bus system and the peoplemover is a sad joke. It originally was supposed to go all the way down to New Center and back which would have really helped pull at least the center of the city together but who in the hell knows what happened to all that money. It only goes in a one mile circle around downtown which is absolutely useless considering that most of the people that work downtown commuter there by car. This city government is absolutely corrupt, the mentality of the streets goes all the way to the top. Mike is 100% on the money with that statement. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: robin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Toby Frith [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) mad mike interview link Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 10:47:48 + It would be great if the people mover actually moved people places. It looks ace. http://www.thepeoplemover.com/ robin... Toby Frith wrote: This line I thought was the most pertinent in the whole interview. We need our city and manufacturing leaders to travel overseas and to realize what Mass Transit means to a city. We don`t have it and we have land locked communities, with land locked thoughts and values. There is no interaction unless you have the luxury of a car which a lot of people can`t afford. The situation is grey.
Re: (313) mad mike interview link
pic reminds me of springfield's monorail On 13/02/07, Cliff Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Everybody in Detroit knows the bus system and the peoplemover is a sad joke. It originally was supposed to go all the way down to New Center and back which would have really helped pull at least the center of the city together but who in the hell knows what happened to all that money. It only goes in a one mile circle around downtown which is absolutely useless considering that most of the people that work downtown commuter there by car. This city government is absolutely corrupt, the mentality of the streets goes all the way to the top. Mike is 100% on the money with that statement. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: robin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Toby Frith [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) mad mike interview link Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 10:47:48 + It would be great if the people mover actually moved people places. It looks ace. http://www.thepeoplemover.com/ robin... Toby Frith wrote: This line I thought was the most pertinent in the whole interview. We need our city and manufacturing leaders to travel overseas and to realize what Mass Transit means to a city. We don`t have it and we have land locked communities, with land locked thoughts and values. There is no interaction unless you have the luxury of a car which a lot of people can`t afford. The situation is grey.
Re: (313) mad mike interview link
Monorail! Monorail! Monorail! Monorail! :) robin... Aidan O'Doherty wrote: pic reminds me of springfield's monorail
FW: (313) By Popular Request: DJ Milton/DJ Urban Rowdy Rowdy Mix Tap
Man, the music and the story...the guy had no way out...his children are his expression...thanks for the tape... -Original Message- From: Ronny Pries [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 1:14 AM Cc: list 313 Subject: Re: (313) By Popular Request: DJ Milton/DJ Urban Rowdy Rowdy Mix Tap ugh, what a story. when keeping it real goes wrong or what... thanks for the tape - the deeon mix has gotta be re-recorded cause the mp3 i already is lousy, lousy, lousy. ronny http://www.cornwarning.com/xfer/DJMilton-DJUrban-RowdyRowdy.mp3 NOTE: This is uploading as I send this message and will not be available until 0400 GMT, or 10PM US CST (11PM EST). This tape was produced during the time when Milton was living in Iowa. You can hear him in the first half shouting out a 319 phone number -- that was his home phone # in Cedar Rapids,IA. I don't remember dates exactly but Milton moved to Iowa in 1998 or thereabouts, and became a popular DJ on the Iowa scene. He brought out several of the DanceMania DJs to shows in Iowa. In addition to DJing Milton was working with at-risk teens in Cedar Rapids. Then on, a trip back to Chicago a few years back, he was arrested and convicted of murder. It turns out that before moving to Iowa, someone had stolen a van containing all of Milton's gear. I don't know all the details of what went down, but apparently Milton and others found the guy who stole the van, beat him, and threw him out of an upper-story window in a Chicago project. All of the DanceMania guys grew up in very rough circumstances where violence was common, but every one of those guys I met seemed very chill and pleasant to hang out with, Milton included. I used to hang out with Milton in his studio and help him with software such on his computers, and he was always a complete sweetheart to me. It's really hard to reconcile the Milton I knew with the crime he was convicted of. Mostly I feel bad for his wife and five children. By the time Milton gets out his kids will mostly be grown. I hope that he survives prison and is able to pick up the pieces of his life eventually. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.17.37/682 - Release Date: 2/12/2007 1:23 PM -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.17.37/682 - Release Date: 2/12/2007 1:23 PM -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.17.37/682 - Release Date: 2/12/2007 1:23 PM
(313) [OT - kind of] Cobblestone Jazz
OK, maybe I have been sleeping on this for a long time... Someone played me a track by Cobblestone Jazz that blew me away. I hate having to compare music, but if I had to, I'd align what I heard somewhere in between Metro Area and St Germain, but it is definitely doing it's own thing. I was surprised to hear that Mathew Jonson is one of the producers. I was never that impressed with his minimal stuff on M_nus but I am glad to hear he has a more 'maximal' side. Has anyone got any recommendations on releases or similar material? N
RE: (313) [OT - kind of] Cobblestone Jazz
The 5th Element EP, their debut, remains their best work IMO. Nothing's touched that yet. -Original Message- From: Nik Stoltzman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 13 February 2007 11:51 To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: (313) [OT - kind of] Cobblestone Jazz OK, maybe I have been sleeping on this for a long time... Someone played me a track by Cobblestone Jazz that blew me away. I hate having to compare music, but if I had to, I'd align what I heard somewhere in between Metro Area and St Germain, but it is definitely doing it's own thing. I was surprised to hear that Mathew Jonson is one of the producers. I was never that impressed with his minimal stuff on M_nus but I am glad to hear he has a more 'maximal' side. Has anyone got any recommendations on releases or similar material? N For all the latest news and comment visit telegraph.co.uk, the UK's most visited quality newspaper website. This e-mail is from Telegraph Media Group Limited - 111 Buckingham Palace Road, London, SW1W 0DT registered in England under No 451593. This message, its contents and any attachments to it are private and confidential. Any unauthorised disclosure, use or dissemination of the whole or part of this message (without our prior written consent) is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us immediately. Neither we nor the sender accepts any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). The content of this email does not necessarily reflect our views or those of our officers and we take no responsibility for the views of the author. Emails sent and received may be read by people other than the intended recipient and may be monitored to ensure efficient operation of our email systems. Incoming and outgoing telephone calls to our offices may be monitored or recorded for training and quality control purposes and for confirming orders and information.
Re: (313) [OT - kind of] Cobblestone Jazz
may i be struck with lightning if cobblestone jazz is OT. - Original Message - From: Nik Stoltzman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 12:51 PM Subject: (313) [OT - kind of] Cobblestone Jazz OK, maybe I have been sleeping on this for a long time... Someone played me a track by Cobblestone Jazz that blew me away. I hate having to compare music, but if I had to, I'd align what I heard somewhere in between Metro Area and St Germain, but it is definitely doing it's own thing. I was surprised to hear that Mathew Jonson is one of the producers. I was never that impressed with his minimal stuff on M_nus but I am glad to hear he has a more 'maximal' side. Has anyone got any recommendations on releases or similar material? N
Re: (313) [OT - kind of] Cobblestone Jazz
I dig several of their stuff very much as well. several nice releases on the wagon repair, and it is what is is label dump track (or the b-side?) is one of my faves releases by The Mole on wagon repair are very worth checking out as well much more on the deephouse/moodymann tip Nik Stoltzman schreef: OK, maybe I have been sleeping on this for a long time... Someone played me a track by Cobblestone Jazz that blew me away. I hate having to compare music, but if I had to, I'd align what I heard somewhere in between Metro Area and St Germain, but it is definitely doing it's own thing. I was surprised to hear that Mathew Jonson is one of the producers. I was never that impressed with his minimal stuff on M_nus but I am glad to hear he has a more 'maximal' side. Has anyone got any recommendations on releases or similar material? N
Re: (313) [OT - kind of] Cobblestone Jazz
Swet. Thanks for the tips. Hello credit card bill. I dig several of their stuff very much as well. several nice releases on the wagon repair, and it is what is is label dump track (or the b-side?) is one of my faves releases by The Mole on wagon repair are very worth checking out as well much more on the deephouse/moodymann tip Nik Stoltzman schreef: OK, maybe I have been sleeping on this for a long time... Someone played me a track by Cobblestone Jazz that blew me away. I hate having to compare music, but if I had to, I'd align what I heard somewhere in between Metro Area and St Germain, but it is definitely doing it's own thing. I was surprised to hear that Mathew Jonson is one of the producers. I was never that impressed with his minimal stuff on M_nus but I am glad to hear he has a more 'maximal' side. Has anyone got any recommendations on releases or similar material? N
Re: (313) mad mike interview link
Mr.Mike nailed it on the head with that comment. Detroit IS landlocked in many ways and for years the people who live there have screamed for a well working public transit system. The people who continue to travel around the world bring back as much cultural soundbites as they can- but it can only go so far with out inner-circle political support. I remember the excitement when that big company from Africa was supposed to restore the train station and put in a super train. It not happening was disheartening. Seriously, what would it take for a train from Detroit to Ann Arbor or to Lansing and Grand Rapids? Perhaps a swallowing of egos, which is a big price. Or let's just start with a good bus system. Actually, let's just start with properly plowing ALL Detroit roads...no matter what street you live on. Today a bunch of men in Detroit will decide whether or not they close an auto plant in Delaware. Yes, it isn't Michigan but just imagine taking those unemployed and hiring them to put together a big-three train...for their bosses to think outside of the box and FINALLY catch up to the worker-to-boss philosophies that propel their foreign competitors. (btw a close family member was one of the lead white/blue collar mediators for EDS for the Saturn project whose ideas are based on the Japanese way of automaking) I'm at a point in my life where I'm deciding where to settle down. I have thought many times about moving back to Michigan. However the dropping economy (which started declining over 5 years ago), the poor school systems and the land wickedness as Mad Mike calls it what will continue to keep me, and others, from moving back.More power to the people that stay and continue to believe in and put their energy to Detroit. good for him.however it's nothing new. d ps. sorry for the bad spelling and grammar. --- robin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It would be great if the people mover actually moved people places. It looks ace. http://www.thepeoplemover.com/ robin... Toby Frith wrote: This line I thought was the most pertinent in the whole interview. We need our city and manufacturing leaders to travel overseas and to realize what Mass Transit means to a city. We don`t have it and we have land locked communities, with land locked thoughts and values. There is no interaction unless you have the luxury of a car which a lot of people can`t afford. The situation is grey. Have a burning question? Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from real people who know.
Re: (313) [OT - kind of] Cobblestone Jazz
Peace Offering off that Dump Truck 12 was pretty nice. robin... Toby Frith wrote: The 5th Element EP, their debut, remains their best work IMO. Nothing's touched that yet.
Re: (313) [OT - kind of] Cobblestone Jazz
On 2/13/07, Toby Frith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The 5th Element EP, their debut, remains their best work IMO. Nothing's touched that yet. i agree. after that, everything else theyve done has left me cold. to be honest, i dont even check their stuff or mat jonson anymore, their production in general fell off a couple years back and now they release way too many singles of not very good material. oh well. tom
RE: (313) [OT - kind of] Cobblestone Jazz
Agreed. Except 'Marrionette' of course. Gives me shivers. -Original Message- From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 13 February 2007 12:57 To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) [OT - kind of] Cobblestone Jazz On 2/13/07, Toby Frith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The 5th Element EP, their debut, remains their best work IMO. Nothing's touched that yet. i agree. after that, everything else theyve done has left me cold. to be honest, i dont even check their stuff or mat jonson anymore, their production in general fell off a couple years back and now they release way too many singles of not very good material. oh well. tom
Re: (313) [OT - kind of] Cobblestone Jazz
the first track on the The Live ep (http://www.discogs.com/release/371451) reminds me very much of C2's material and the title seems like more than a coincidence... nice track btw, jazzy-techy fab. - Original Message - From: Nik Stoltzman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 12:51 PM Subject: (313) [OT - kind of] Cobblestone Jazz OK, maybe I have been sleeping on this for a long time... Someone played me a track by Cobblestone Jazz that blew me away. I hate having to compare music, but if I had to, I'd align what I heard somewhere in between Metro Area and St Germain, but it is definitely doing it's own thing. I was surprised to hear that Mathew Jonson is one of the producers. I was never that impressed with his minimal stuff on M_nus but I am glad to hear he has a more 'maximal' side. Has anyone got any recommendations on releases or similar material? N
(313) Some Ghetto Respect
I noticed the DJ Slugo changed his myspace screen name to RIP DISCO D... Like I said, the Dancemania DJs are stand-up guys.
Re: (313) [OT - kind of] Cobblestone Jazz
I liked that DUmp Truck ep, too. - Original Message From: robin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 6:30:49 AM Subject: Re: (313) [OT - kind of] Cobblestone Jazz Peace Offering off that Dump Truck 12 was pretty nice. robin... Toby Frith wrote: The 5th Element EP, their debut, remains their best work IMO. Nothing's touched that yet.
Re: (313) [OT - kind of] Cobblestone Jazz
Ya that's a great track. Haven't heard anything other than that EP, but have been meaning to. fab. wrote: the first track on the The Live ep (http://www.discogs.com/release/371451) reminds me very much of C2's material and the title seems like more than a coincidence... nice track btw, jazzy-techy fab. - Original Message - From: Nik Stoltzman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 12:51 PM Subject: (313) [OT - kind of] Cobblestone Jazz OK, maybe I have been sleeping on this for a long time... Someone played me a track by Cobblestone Jazz that blew me away. I hate having to compare music, but if I had to, I'd align what I heard somewhere in between Metro Area and St Germain, but it is definitely doing it's own thing. I was surprised to hear that Mathew Jonson is one of the producers. I was never that impressed with his minimal stuff on M_nus but I am glad to hear he has a more 'maximal' side. Has anyone got any recommendations on releases or similar material? N -- Jamil Ali (416) 364-9227 ext. 31 www.orcsoftware.com
Re: (313) [OT - kind of] Cobblestone Jazz
Has anyone got any recommendations on releases or similar material? i dig them all (personally i like The Live ep less). India In Me hasn't been mentioned yet. great track. my fave is the flip of dump truck ep: peace offering. -- Der GMX SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen! Ideal für Modem und ISDN: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/smartsurfer
Re: (313) mad mike interview link
On 2/13/07, Toby Frith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This line I thought was the most pertinent in the whole interview. We need our city and manufacturing leaders to travel overseas and to realize what Mass Transit means to a city. We don`t have it and we have land locked communities, with land locked thoughts and values. There is no interaction unless you have the luxury of a car which a lot of people can`t afford. The situation is grey. This is true of a LOT of places in the USA. Were I live, in Chicago, it's much better compared to Detroit, and I and many friends are able to live without cars by choice. However, compared to any decent European transit system, even this good transit system is horrible. We often get around this by taking taxis, which people with less income cannot afford (of course, in Detroit even taxis are almost impossible to get). The problems with the transit here are numerous: Many locations in the city inaccessible, or barely accessible. Ridiculously long waits in locations exposed to the weather (not good in winter weather). Lack of repair, and when repair/upgrading does get done, it paralyzes the transit system at certain points. Inability to handle the number of commuters who ride at peak points. Buses that come extremely late or not at all. Rising transit costs, coupled with decreasing service... In my opinion, the lack of good public transit in the US is really related to something fundamentally wrong with the American value system and its promotion of individualism at all costs.
Re: (313) [OT - kind of] Cobblestone Jazz
[Carlos de Brito [EMAIL PROTECTED]] i dig them all (personally i like The Live ep less). India In Me hasn't been mentioned yet. great track. my fave is the flip of dump truck ep: peace offering. I freaked the first time I heard India in Me. Amazing. -- :: atomly :: [ [EMAIL PROTECTED] : www.atomly.com ... [ atomiq records : markgrafenstr. 56 #158, 10117 berlin, germany ... [ e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for atomly info and updates ...
Re: (313) mad mike interview link
David Powers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 02/13/2007 11:37:19 AM: something fundamentally wrong with the American value system Hammer and its promotion of individualism at all costs. Nail Pound away MEK
Re: (313) mad mike interview link
On 2/13/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David Powers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 02/13/2007 11:37:19 AM: something fundamentally wrong with the American value system Hammer and its promotion of individualism at all costs. Nail Pound away come on though, would such great music be created in america if individuality wasnt such a big deal here? i dont think so! tom
Re: (313) mad mike interview link
On 2/13/07, Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: come on though, would such great music be created in america if individuality wasnt such a big deal here? i dont think so! tom Yes. Until the birth of electronic music, most music was NOT created by just an individual. Take any great jazz group (for me, the classic groups of Thelonius Monk, Miles Davis, or John Coltrane) and you will find that the individuality of the players is expressed in such a way that it complements the what is being expressed by the group as a whole. Individual identity only emerges through group interaction - perhaps such a process could properly be called dialectical. And in classical/orchestral music, great classical composers might have heard amazing, totally original music in their heads, but getting the music performed required convincing some hapless musicians that the music was worth learning and performing. Only with electronic music, is it possible to get rid of the group and create without consideration for others. This is probably a double edged sword. I'm glad I can make my own CD with only a cheap $50 computer, especially considering I've written a string quartet that has never been performed, that is just sitting in a box in my closet. But collective music making is a very rewarding experience, and I often miss it these days. Also, there are reasons why I think art, even the kind made by a lone individual, is NEVER really individualistic, but it gets into the philosophical nature of language as socially constructed, and the preconditions of artistic expression, so it's probably better reserved for something like the microsound list. Suffice it to say that anyone who releases a CD, obviously imagines some kind of audience for their music, even if it's an imaginary/ideal audience. To bring it back to the Mad Mike interview: it would seem that some of the frustration of the Detroit techno pioneers (including 2nd wave), is precisely in the tremendous gap between the imagined audience, which includes some significant audience in the African-American community, and the real audience, which is more or less European and white. This gap between the imagined audience and the real audience raises a lot of interesting questions about what how culture is enjoyed, by who, and why. ~David
Re: (313) mad mike interview link
Individuality is not as big a deal in other countries/cultures that have created great music equal to that of America's. And often you find a lack of privilege and entitlement amongst those cultures. MEK Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 02/13/2007 03:05:09 PM: On 2/13/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David Powers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 02/13/2007 11:37:19 AM: something fundamentally wrong with the American value system Hammer and its promotion of individualism at all costs. Nail Pound away come on though, would such great music be created in america if individuality wasnt such a big deal here? i dont think so! tom
Re: (313) mad mike interview link
On 2/13/07, David Powers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes. Until the birth of electronic music, most music was NOT created by just an individual. sure, but if every musical decision was made by group decision, would these things have happened? there's always someone who steps out of line with everything else and just does their own thing. as far as modern music, it cant just be coincidence how many times that has happened with american music. hiphop, soul, blues, funk, disco, house, techno, electro, rock and roll, punk, jazz, the list can go on and on. Take any great jazz group (for me, the classic groups of Thelonius Monk, Miles Davis, or John Coltrane) and you will find that the individuality of the players is expressed in such a way that it complements the what is being expressed by the group as a whole. Individual identity only emerges through group interaction - perhaps such a process could properly be called dialectical. what about monk's solo work? or any number of jazz band leaders who dictated what was gonna happen? people had to submit to someone's personal ideas about music. individuality expressed through a group setting! And in classical/orchestral music, great classical composers might have heard amazing, totally original music in their heads, but getting the music performed required convincing some hapless musicians that the music was worth learning and performing. but it still was rooted in one person's mind. it was not a collective writing process. Only with electronic music, is it possible to get rid of the group and create without consideration for others. This is probably a double edged sword. I'm glad I can make my own CD with only a cheap $50 computer, especially considering I've written a string quartet that has never been performed, that is just sitting in a box in my closet. But collective music making is a very rewarding experience, and I often miss it these days. im not saying its the only way, but it is a valid way that wouldnt come about if people were only worried about pleasing groups of people. tom
Re: (313) mad mike interview link
On 2/13/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Individuality is not as big a deal in other countries/cultures that have created great music equal to that of America's. name these great musics and compare them to this list: hiphop, soul, blues, funk, disco, house, techno, electro, rock and roll, punk, jazz and im sure there's more. but im not discounting any other countries' musical outputs. i am saying that there are good reasons the US has created so much good music, and one of those reasons is the fact that individuality is so cherished here. And often you find a lack of privilege and entitlement amongst those cultures. dood, im a socialist. i believe in doing things for the people. but one of the primary flaws of the socialism that this planet has seen is its lack of regard for individuality. should everyone dress the same? listen to the same music? do the same exact things? no, they should be able to do as they please. if that comes out in people choosing cars then so be it. the argument also oversimplified the reason cars are so popular here. we live in a much more spread out landmass than all of europe. its definitely MORE convenient to have people moving about in a small space in as efficient manner as possible. here, with so many possible destinations spread out over such a huge area, its not the same. tom
Re: (313) mad mike interview link
re: techno- couldn't you really credit the roots (the start of the chain reaction) to germany and well we won't point any fingers for Giorgio Moroder and what his productions lead to (viva Italia). ? diana --- Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2/13/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Individuality is not as big a deal in other countries/cultures that have created great music equal to that of America's. name these great musics and compare them to this list: hiphop, soul, blues, funk, disco, house, techno, electro, rock and roll, punk, jazz and im sure there's more. but im not discounting any other countries' musical outputs. i am saying that there are good reasons the US has created so much good music, and one of those reasons is the fact that individuality is so cherished here. And often you find a lack of privilege and entitlement amongst those cultures. dood, im a socialist. i believe in doing things for the people. but one of the primary flaws of the socialism that this planet has seen is its lack of regard for individuality. should everyone dress the same? listen to the same music? do the same exact things? no, they should be able to do as they please. if that comes out in people choosing cars then so be it. the argument also oversimplified the reason cars are so popular here. we live in a much more spread out landmass than all of europe. its definitely MORE convenient to have people moving about in a small space in as efficient manner as possible. here, with so many possible destinations spread out over such a huge area, its not the same. tom Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/
Re: (313) mad mike interview link
On 2/13/07, diana potts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: re: techno- couldn't you really credit the roots (the start of the chain reaction) to germany and well we won't point any fingers for Giorgio Moroder and what his productions lead to (viva Italia). both giorgio and kraftwerk took much influence from american music: see the quote about kraftwerk studying james brown's rhythm and just about any good moroder interview where he talks about motown and how he copied many of his ideas from american r+b. but that isnt the point, of course, and its not the argument i was trying to make. i was simply pointing out how many innovations have come from american (not even just in music, in general!) minds and that the focus on individuality has something to do with that. tom
RE: (313) mad mike interview link
I agree on the whole with your views on this one tom. I'd like to point out, that even though America pushes individualism in every way, it has contrived some ingenious ways of sneaking conformity into the mix. It's almost like subgenres to me. You can think you're being individual by buying the most extreme clothing in dark tones and wearing shocking makeup and even bones around your neck, but in the end...you're just being goth. Or nerdy, or preppy, or gangsta, or any of the other prefabbed individual identities already marketed and concepted out for you by the corresponding media. Art zines, hip-hop zines, geek zines. They all come with their own sense of fashion and identity. Some kind of collective individuality. That's an oxymoron to most thinking people, but it's what most Americans engage in when they believe they're expressing their individuality. So that issue is a much more complex one in America due to the spread and almost ravenous feeding upon/profiting from of trends and fads. One kid may have been being an individual, but as soon as he gets a shot in someones blog, there's the rest coming to sign up. I'd even say, that save for the few visionaries, individualism is almost non-existent in America. I mean people still vote based on who they think will get the most votes (as opposed to who they believe in)and will openly say so in front of cameras. As someone said recently :)The situation is grey. k -Original Message- From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 5:24 PM To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) mad mike interview link On 2/13/07, diana potts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: re: techno- couldn't you really credit the roots (the start of the chain reaction) to germany and well we won't point any fingers for Giorgio Moroder and what his productions lead to (viva Italia). both giorgio and kraftwerk took much influence from american music: see the quote about kraftwerk studying james brown's rhythm and just about any good moroder interview where he talks about motown and how he copied many of his ideas from american r+b. but that isnt the point, of course, and its not the argument i was trying to make. i was simply pointing out how many innovations have come from american (not even just in music, in general!) minds and that the focus on individuality has something to do with that. tom
Re: (313) mad mike interview link
americans are one big flock of sheep, with pop culture playing the part of the shepherd. think - Original Message - From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 4:05 PM Subject: Re: (313) mad mike interview link On 2/13/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David Powers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 02/13/2007 11:37:19 AM: something fundamentally wrong with the American value system Hammer and its promotion of individualism at all costs. Nail Pound away come on though, would such great music be created in america if individuality wasnt such a big deal here? i dont think so! tom
Re: (313) mad mike interview link
name these great musics and compare them to this list: traditional musics from all around the world Just because they don't have a global reach (because of a lack of necessity and capitalistic marketing) doesn't mean that, say Gamelan music, isn't as great as American Blues. You have a very ethnocentric view on music. And often you find a lack of privilege and entitlement amongst those cultures. dood, im a socialist. i believe in doing things for the people. but one of the primary flaws of the socialism that this planet has seen is its lack of regard for individuality. should everyone dress the same? listen to the same music? do the same exact things? no, they should be able to do as they please. Wouldn't have thought you believed that from some of the arguments you've made. Anyway, socialism has never had much of a chance here with The Red Scare, Better Dead than Red and all that 1940s b.s. Socialism has developed in other countries and in some it actually does alright. the argument also oversimplified the reason cars are so popular here. we live in a much more spread out landmass than all of europe. That occurred after WW2. Look at all the eastern New England cities. They are built and developed like European cities (hence the name). All of our problems that we contend with today in regard to transportation arose after WW2. Cities lost cable cars and installed buses, highways were built across country and train services decreased while air travel increased. Oil/petroleum pretty much sums it up. Detroit's industry was a cause of it and Detroit was a product of it and has suffered because of it. Why would any of the big 3 auto makers support public transport in Detroit? I suggest this great book on the subject Private Pleasure, Public Plight: American Metropolitan Community Life in Comparative Perspective - David Popenoe A social and cultural analysis of community life in metropolitan areas of the USA, Sweden and England. The author focuses on how environment and culture interact to shape human behavior. Despite their similarities, the three societies vary widely, offering opportunities to compare and contrast. its definitely MORE convenient to have people moving about in a small space in as efficient manner as possible. here, with so many possible destinations spread out over such a huge area, its not the same. But are those destinations really there because of necessity or because of desire? The sense of place is warped here in the US. MEK
Re: (313) mad mike interview link
On 2/13/07, kate simko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i usually hold back from responding to these quasi-political posts on the list. but, i feel the need to say that you are not really talking about american music here; you are talking about black music. jazz, blues, rock, soul, funk, hip-hop, disco, house, etc. are all black music genres. you dont have to explain that to me, ive argued that exact point on this list for years now. that is part of the equation, but the fact is that there are other places where black people were enslaved and repressed and killed that DIDN'T create musics like black people in america did. that alone is not the cause, it is the specific american attitude combined with that repression and other variables. odd that you excluded rock and roll as black music though ;) tom
Re: (313) mad mike interview link
On 2/13/07, /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: americans are one big flock of sheep, with pop culture playing the part of the shepherd. think if you want to make a third grade argument out of it, maybe. otherwise, until you prove to me that americans developed all those styles of music amongst other things by being sheep, good luck with that one. try it on an 8 year old instead! tom
Re: (313) mad mike interview link
odd that you excluded rock and roll as black music though ;) It's not entirely black music. Appalachian folk/country music had a huge impact on it (melodically). That music has it's roots in immigrants from Scotland and Ireland. MEK
Re: (313) mad mike interview link
On 2/13/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: traditional musics from all around the world Just because they don't have a global reach (because of a lack of necessity and capitalistic marketing) doesn't mean that, say Gamelan music, isn't as great as American Blues. You have a very ethnocentric view on music. i didnt say it wasnt as great. i was asking for one place, that in such a short amount of time, created such diverse and world reaching music. and the answer is it doesnt exist. and thats because of that individuality here: music from chicago didnt sound like music from detroit or music from anywhere else. everyone did their own thing, and the world has been rewarded for that. But are those destinations really there because of necessity or because of desire? The sense of place is warped here in the US. or maybe the sense of place is warped elsewhere! it all depends on how you look at it. the environment is going to shape these things. the environment here is very different from europe and other places with more sophisticated mass transit. not that im against mass transit, i love it quite a bit, but sometimes things make sense one place and not another. tom
