New subscribers?

[kent williams]

For some reason we've had a bunch of new subscribers. I guess that is a
challenge to us old timers to, uh, generate some compelling content.

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

[denisedalphond]

I really liked all that UR carhartt stuff. That was a pretty good idea. $$



> On Oct 19, 2018, at 13:44, David A. Powers  wrote:
> 
> Good for year, I moved to Detroit because I needed a job, and someone in 
> Detroit offered me a job.
> Then I lost the job. Didn't have much money, it wasn't enough to renew my 
> lease, then I got evicted from my apartment, and the money ran out.
> I was literally homeless and walking around the streets not having eaten for 
> a day at one point, when someone intervened and let me live in a basement in 
> the suburbs... Even being homeless, I'd manage to hold on to all my stuff, 
> keeping it in storage in Detroit.
> 
> I managed to make a little bit of money through a couple temporary jobs and 
> found a place to live in Detroit again.
> Immediately after that, my dad died of cancer and all my shit got stolen.
> Literally everything I owned, clothes, music gear, all my vinyl records.
> Only like a box of books and a few clothes and things I had at another 
> location survived.
> And all my income dried up again.
> 
> I would be dead if a friend had not extended their help to me at that point 
> so that I didn't end up on the street.
> Also, if John Collins, hadn't reached out to me at one point, when I was very 
> suicidal, I might be dead.
> 
> Don't fucking judge people when you don't know their stories.
> People who are poor have tough lives no matter what their skin color.
> I moved to Detroit so I wouldn't starve to death, because I needed a job
> 
> Poor people don't get to choose what city to live in. 
> When times are tough and you are broke, you have to take whatever job you can 
> get.
> 
> "Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall 
> be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 
> And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest 
> not the beam that is in thine own eye?"
> 
> ~David
> 
>> On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 11:43 AM Denise Dalphond  
>> wrote:
>> I've never lived in Detroit, unfortunately. I didn't want to gentrify.
>> 
>> 
>> Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.
>> ethnomusicologist
>> schoolcraftwax.work
>> 
>> 
>>> On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 12:42 PM Denise Dalphond  
>>> wrote:
>>> Mike Banks owns a museum. It's called Exhibit 3000.
>>> 
>>> It's for education. So people don't get confused.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.
>>> ethnomusicologist
>>> schoolcraftwax.work
>>> 
>>> 
 On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 12:39 PM David A. Powers  wrote:
 Denise, 
 
 I lived in the city, I talk to my friends in the city every week, and I 
 played a gig there recently. I know exactly what's going on. 
 
 First of all, Red Bull, really? They literally pimp out art and artists in 
 order to sell shitty corporate drugs that are terrible for the human body.
 I'm glad that artists get paid even if it's by Red Bull, but seriously, 
 screw them.
 
 Second, it's quite obvious that we are talking about literally TWO 
 DIFFERENT THINGS.
 
 You are talking about museums. I'm talking about selling records and 
 making money! I'm talking about this:
 http://submerge.com/ 
 
 Do you honestly think that black artists in the US can live off of 
 cultural recognition by the city of Detroit?
 How many Detroit techno records are selling in the Detroit area? 
 UR has trouble paying the bills. Musicians need to make money. 
 You can't make a living as a Detroit techno artist IN DETROIT. 
 All the artists you mentioned got notoriety overseas before they got 
 hometown recognition.
 
 Musicians need to work together to carry on the work that UR started, and 
 part of this work is trying to find a way to sell records in the United 
 States.
 This is hard work, and it involves all musicians and artists including the 
 Detroit techno community.
 What people write about the music second hand is not so important as what 
 musicians do to move the music forward in the present. 
 
 Motown, UR, and Chicago's AACM are all examples of the kind of ethos I 
 advocate. 
 What matters is what we musicians do to help each other and build a better 
 future together. 
 Building a better future is what techno is all about.
 
 
 ~David
 
> On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 10:21 AM Denise Dalphond 
>  wrote:
> Detroiters of color definitely give a shit about techno. Your statement 
> is completely wrong and off base. All you have to do is visit the 
> instagram account of Underground Resistance. 
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/undergroundresistance313/?hl=en
> 
> It is filled with Black and Brown faces. In Detroit. Often, DJs hosting 
> parties all over Detroit are Black and Brown people, and the crowds are 
> full of people of color. 
> 
> People are being duped with old ideas about clan mentality and who the 
> 

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

[David A. Powers]

I agree, that's why I mentioned "sustainable."

I wasn't trying to criticize UR, but just looking at the facts that markets
change and you have to make enough so that folks can eat.
And I have to solve this problem too, because I'm a musician myself in the
current market.

~David

On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 12:34 PM Fred Heutte  wrote:

> There is a basic misunderstanding here.  Getting paid enough to
> cover the bills and have a reasonable life is important.
>
> Making as much money as possible is not the purpose.
>
> Detroit techno is all about retaining that difference.
>
> Twenty years ago, Sony Japan issued its crappy unauthorized and
> uncompensated remake of Jaguar.  We all understood what that
> represented, and UR made the right choice.
>
> Detroit techno is far more than just UR (and it's also true that
> "the D in Detroit stands for Drama").  But also remember, leadership
> is shown by action, not just words.
>
> fh
>
>
> -
> >Fred,
> >
> >I don't scorn UR they are my heroes.
> >I just WANT THEM TO MAKE MORE MONEY!!!
> >I'm being realistic about how well the business model is doing.
> >You can't solve a problem by pretending it doesn't exist.
> >Making money is a problem for musicians right now--not just UR, but
> changes
> >in music as a whole might be hitting their business model hard.
> >The move from streaming to owning hurts some underground business models.
> >This is just reality.
> >
> >Likewise, yes, you are right, it's amazing that an email list from 1994
> >exists at all.
> >But be honest, the list today is nothing like what it was in its prime.
> >
> >Anyway, you are missing the point. As a musician, I care about the music
> >and the community around music.
> >My job is to act to help the community grow in positive ways, and make
> kick
> >ass music.
> >I'm trying to do that within the reality of 2018, and streaming.
> >I have no interest in CRITIQUING shit out of the past. I only care about
> >finding ways to do shit that work, now.
> >And that includes Submerge being able to sell records.
> >I want them to succeed and I want to develop resources to help all local
> >community initiatives and cooperatives and grassroots cultural efforts to
> >succeed. But that requires strategy and actual new ideas.
> >
> >Traditions are built over generations, but something I learned as a jazz
> >musician, is that each generation is responsible for moving the music
> >forward, and each individual. Not only that, we inherent a responsibility
> >as caretakers when we become participants within a tradition. I'm
> >interested in how I can get better at doing my job as a participant in
> >three living musical traditions, jazz, classical, and techno. You
> >participate in the tradition, FYI, by working with people in the tradition
> >and gaining their blessing, not just be declaring yourself to be a member.
> >I played with Detroit drummer Djallo Djakate's group, and recorded
> >keyboards with Alton Miller (it's supposed to come out on a Sound
> Signature
> >album eventually), so I'm actively involved with Detroit musicians
> recently
> >and have more projects in the works. So I have a direct stake in all this.
> >
> >I'm starting a record label, so I need to know, for instance, if I put out
> >a record by a talented Detroit cat, how can I help him sell more records?
> >And if people won't buy records, how can I get my artists paid???
> >
> >~David
> >
> >
> >
> >On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 11:34 AM Fred Heutte 
> wrote:
> >
> >> For those who haven't seen it:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> http://daily.redbullmusicacademy.com/2017/06/drexciya-infinite-journey-to-inner-space
> >>
> >> fh
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>

Return To Andromeda (Full length Ambient Album)

[David A. Powers]

Folks,

I'm a techno musician at the end of the day, not just a music fan, at the
end of the day my job is to make music, and so I'm doing my best to not
only do great work, but start my own label. Here is the first official
release for Santos Y Diablos, "Return to Andromeda" a record of ambient
techno inspired by outer space, Sun Ra, and the ancient egyptian pyramid
texts. It was recorded in Detroit, Chicago, and Austin between 2014-2018,
in fact this record spans the period during which I was homeless in
Detroit. So it's a big deal for me to finally put this record out into the
world, even if I don't sell a single copy.

https://davidapowers.bandcamp.com/album/return-to-andromeda

You can stream it on bandcamp for free, and I hope some folks here might
find some enjoyment or spiritual nourishment from this music:

PS, the label Santos Y Diablos was converted over from my personal bandcamp
label, so it includes two avant-jazz solo piano albums on it
However, this is just due to a quirk of bandcamp.
In the future, I intend to release various forms of house and techno with
this label, with a heavy Detroit influence.
I would like to put out other talented artists and get them paid too.
However, right now I only have $300 and no way to pay my November rent, so
expanding to be a "real label" might take a while.
One day at a time...

~David

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

[David A. Powers]

Good for year, I moved to Detroit because I needed a job, and someone in
Detroit offered me a job.
Then I lost the job. Didn't have much money, it wasn't enough to renew my
lease, then I got evicted from my apartment, and the money ran out.
I was literally homeless and walking around the streets not having eaten
for a day at one point, when someone intervened and let me live in a
basement in the suburbs... Even being homeless, I'd manage to hold on to
all my stuff, keeping it in storage in Detroit.

I managed to make a little bit of money through a couple temporary jobs and
found a place to live in Detroit again.
Immediately after that, my dad died of cancer and all my shit got stolen.
Literally everything I owned, clothes, music gear, all my vinyl records.
Only like a box of books and a few clothes and things I had at another
location survived.
And all my income dried up again.

I would be dead if a friend had not extended their help to me at that point
so that I didn't end up on the street.
Also, if John Collins, hadn't reached out to me at one point, when I was
very suicidal, I might be dead.

Don't fucking judge people when you don't know their stories.
People who are poor have tough lives no matter what their skin color.
I moved to Detroit so I wouldn't starve to death, because I needed a job

Poor people don't get to choose what city to live in.
When times are tough and you are broke, you have to take whatever job you
can get.

"Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye
shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you
again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but
considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"

~David

On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 11:43 AM Denise Dalphond 
wrote:

> I've never lived in Detroit, unfortunately. I didn't want to gentrify.
>
>
> *Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.*
> *ethnomusicologist*
> *schoolcraftwax.work *
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 12:42 PM Denise Dalphond 
> wrote:
>
>> Mike Banks owns a museum. It's called Exhibit 3000.
>>
>> It's for education. So people don't get confused.
>>
>>
>> *Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.*
>> *ethnomusicologist*
>> *schoolcraftwax.work *
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 12:39 PM David A. Powers 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Denise,
>>>
>>> I lived in the city, I talk to my friends in the city every week, and I
>>> played a gig there recently. I know exactly what's going on.
>>>
>>> First of all, Red Bull, really? They literally pimp out art and artists
>>> in order to sell shitty corporate drugs that are terrible for the human
>>> body.
>>> I'm glad that artists get paid even if it's by Red Bull, but seriously,
>>> screw them.
>>>
>>> Second, it's quite obvious that we are talking about literally TWO
>>> DIFFERENT THINGS.
>>>
>>> You are talking about museums. I'm talking about selling records and
>>> making money! I'm talking about this:
>>> http://submerge.com/
>>>
>>> Do you honestly think that black artists in the US can live off of
>>> cultural recognition by the city of Detroit?
>>> How many Detroit techno records are selling in the Detroit area?
>>> UR has trouble paying the bills. Musicians need to make money.
>>> You can't make a living as a Detroit techno artist IN DETROIT.
>>> All the artists you mentioned got notoriety overseas before they got
>>> hometown recognition.
>>>
>>> Musicians need to work together to carry on the work that UR started,
>>> and part of this work is trying to find a way to sell records in the United
>>> States.
>>> This is hard work, and it involves all musicians and artists including
>>> the Detroit techno community.
>>> What people write about the music second hand is not so important as
>>> what musicians do to move the music forward in the present.
>>>
>>> Motown, UR, and Chicago's AACM are all examples of the kind of ethos I
>>> advocate.
>>> What matters is what we musicians do to help each other and build a
>>> better future together.
>>> Building a better future is what techno is all about.
>>>
>>>
>>> ~David
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 10:21 AM Denise Dalphond <
>>> denisedalph...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 Detroiters of color definitely give a shit about techno. Your statement
 is completely wrong and off base. All you have to do is visit the instagram
 account of Underground Resistance.

 https://www.instagram.com/undergroundresistance313/?hl=en

 It is filled with Black and Brown faces. In Detroit. Often, DJs hosting
 parties all over Detroit are Black and Brown people, and the crowds are
 full of people of color.

 People are being duped with old ideas about clan mentality and who the
 true fans are. Think what you want, but be careful what you say using Mike
 Bank's words to support your opinions.

 Moodymann's Prince museum is directly across the street from Submerge.
 Carl Craig's studio is nearby. A mile west is 

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

[Fred Heutte]

There is a basic misunderstanding here.  Getting paid enough to
cover the bills and have a reasonable life is important.

Making as much money as possible is not the purpose.

Detroit techno is all about retaining that difference.

Twenty years ago, Sony Japan issued its crappy unauthorized and
uncompensated remake of Jaguar.  We all understood what that
represented, and UR made the right choice.

Detroit techno is far more than just UR (and it's also true that 
"the D in Detroit stands for Drama").  But also remember, leadership
is shown by action, not just words.

fh


-
>Fred,
>
>I don't scorn UR they are my heroes.
>I just WANT THEM TO MAKE MORE MONEY!!!
>I'm being realistic about how well the business model is doing.
>You can't solve a problem by pretending it doesn't exist.
>Making money is a problem for musicians right now--not just UR, but changes
>in music as a whole might be hitting their business model hard.
>The move from streaming to owning hurts some underground business models.
>This is just reality.
>
>Likewise, yes, you are right, it's amazing that an email list from 1994
>exists at all.
>But be honest, the list today is nothing like what it was in its prime.
>
>Anyway, you are missing the point. As a musician, I care about the music
>and the community around music.
>My job is to act to help the community grow in positive ways, and make kick
>ass music.
>I'm trying to do that within the reality of 2018, and streaming.
>I have no interest in CRITIQUING shit out of the past. I only care about
>finding ways to do shit that work, now.
>And that includes Submerge being able to sell records.
>I want them to succeed and I want to develop resources to help all local
>community initiatives and cooperatives and grassroots cultural efforts to
>succeed. But that requires strategy and actual new ideas.
>
>Traditions are built over generations, but something I learned as a jazz
>musician, is that each generation is responsible for moving the music
>forward, and each individual. Not only that, we inherent a responsibility
>as caretakers when we become participants within a tradition. I'm
>interested in how I can get better at doing my job as a participant in
>three living musical traditions, jazz, classical, and techno. You
>participate in the tradition, FYI, by working with people in the tradition
>and gaining their blessing, not just be declaring yourself to be a member.
>I played with Detroit drummer Djallo Djakate's group, and recorded
>keyboards with Alton Miller (it's supposed to come out on a Sound Signature
>album eventually), so I'm actively involved with Detroit musicians recently
>and have more projects in the works. So I have a direct stake in all this.
>
>I'm starting a record label, so I need to know, for instance, if I put out
>a record by a talented Detroit cat, how can I help him sell more records?
>And if people won't buy records, how can I get my artists paid???
>
>~David
>
>
>
>On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 11:34 AM Fred Heutte  wrote:
>
>> For those who haven't seen it:
>>
>>
>> http://daily.redbullmusicacademy.com/2017/06/drexciya-infinite-journey-to-inner-space
>>
>> fh
>>
>>
>

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

[David A. Powers]

Fred,

I don't scorn UR they are my heroes.
I just WANT THEM TO MAKE MORE MONEY!!!
I'm being realistic about how well the business model is doing.
You can't solve a problem by pretending it doesn't exist.
Making money is a problem for musicians right now--not just UR, but changes
in music as a whole might be hitting their business model hard.
The move from streaming to owning hurts some underground business models.
This is just reality.

Likewise, yes, you are right, it's amazing that an email list from 1994
exists at all.
But be honest, the list today is nothing like what it was in its prime.

Anyway, you are missing the point. As a musician, I care about the music
and the community around music.
My job is to act to help the community grow in positive ways, and make kick
ass music.
I'm trying to do that within the reality of 2018, and streaming.
I have no interest in CRITIQUING shit out of the past. I only care about
finding ways to do shit that work, now.
And that includes Submerge being able to sell records.
I want them to succeed and I want to develop resources to help all local
community initiatives and cooperatives and grassroots cultural efforts to
succeed. But that requires strategy and actual new ideas.

Traditions are built over generations, but something I learned as a jazz
musician, is that each generation is responsible for moving the music
forward, and each individual. Not only that, we inherent a responsibility
as caretakers when we become participants within a tradition. I'm
interested in how I can get better at doing my job as a participant in
three living musical traditions, jazz, classical, and techno. You
participate in the tradition, FYI, by working with people in the tradition
and gaining their blessing, not just be declaring yourself to be a member.
I played with Detroit drummer Djallo Djakate's group, and recorded
keyboards with Alton Miller (it's supposed to come out on a Sound Signature
album eventually), so I'm actively involved with Detroit musicians recently
and have more projects in the works. So I have a direct stake in all this.

I'm starting a record label, so I need to know, for instance, if I put out
a record by a talented Detroit cat, how can I help him sell more records?
And if people won't buy records, how can I get my artists paid???

~David



On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 11:34 AM Fred Heutte  wrote:

> For those who haven't seen it:
>
>
> http://daily.redbullmusicacademy.com/2017/06/drexciya-infinite-journey-to-inner-space
>
> fh
>
>

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

[Denise Dalphond]

Hell yeah Mike Rubin.


*Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.*
*ethnomusicologist*
*schoolcraftwax.work *


On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 12:34 PM Fred Heutte  wrote:

> For those who haven't seen it:
>
>
> http://daily.redbullmusicacademy.com/2017/06/drexciya-infinite-journey-to-inner-space
>
> fh
>
>

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

[Denise Dalphond]

I've never lived in Detroit, unfortunately. I didn't want to gentrify.


*Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.*
*ethnomusicologist*
*schoolcraftwax.work *


On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 12:42 PM Denise Dalphond 
wrote:

> Mike Banks owns a museum. It's called Exhibit 3000.
>
> It's for education. So people don't get confused.
>
>
> *Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.*
> *ethnomusicologist*
> *schoolcraftwax.work *
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 12:39 PM David A. Powers 
> wrote:
>
>> Denise,
>>
>> I lived in the city, I talk to my friends in the city every week, and I
>> played a gig there recently. I know exactly what's going on.
>>
>> First of all, Red Bull, really? They literally pimp out art and artists
>> in order to sell shitty corporate drugs that are terrible for the human
>> body.
>> I'm glad that artists get paid even if it's by Red Bull, but seriously,
>> screw them.
>>
>> Second, it's quite obvious that we are talking about literally TWO
>> DIFFERENT THINGS.
>>
>> You are talking about museums. I'm talking about selling records and
>> making money! I'm talking about this:
>> http://submerge.com/
>>
>> Do you honestly think that black artists in the US can live off of
>> cultural recognition by the city of Detroit?
>> How many Detroit techno records are selling in the Detroit area?
>> UR has trouble paying the bills. Musicians need to make money.
>> You can't make a living as a Detroit techno artist IN DETROIT.
>> All the artists you mentioned got notoriety overseas before they got
>> hometown recognition.
>>
>> Musicians need to work together to carry on the work that UR started, and
>> part of this work is trying to find a way to sell records in the United
>> States.
>> This is hard work, and it involves all musicians and artists including
>> the Detroit techno community.
>> What people write about the music second hand is not so important as what
>> musicians do to move the music forward in the present.
>>
>> Motown, UR, and Chicago's AACM are all examples of the kind of ethos I
>> advocate.
>> What matters is what we musicians do to help each other and build a
>> better future together.
>> Building a better future is what techno is all about.
>>
>>
>> ~David
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 10:21 AM Denise Dalphond <
>> denisedalph...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Detroiters of color definitely give a shit about techno. Your statement
>>> is completely wrong and off base. All you have to do is visit the instagram
>>> account of Underground Resistance.
>>>
>>> https://www.instagram.com/undergroundresistance313/?hl=en
>>>
>>> It is filled with Black and Brown faces. In Detroit. Often, DJs hosting
>>> parties all over Detroit are Black and Brown people, and the crowds are
>>> full of people of color.
>>>
>>> People are being duped with old ideas about clan mentality and who the
>>> true fans are. Think what you want, but be careful what you say using Mike
>>> Bank's words to support your opinions.
>>>
>>> Moodymann's Prince museum is directly across the street from Submerge.
>>> Carl Craig's studio is nearby. A mile west is Motown's original
>>> headquarters. You have no idea what kind of support these geniuses can
>>> garner in their own town now. Red Bull has a space in Detroit. It doesn't
>>> only open its doors to white people. Black and Brown people visit too.
>>> Submerge had an exhibit in the RBMA space about Detroit house music. You
>>> don't know what current Detroit techno even looks like. It's a vibrant
>>> scene in the city of Detroit right now.
>>>
>>> You're blind.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.*
>>> *ethnomusicologist*
>>> *schoolcraftwax.work *
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 8:47 AM David A. Powers 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 The irony of this situation is that in the big picture, even if the RA
 piece was produced in an unethical manner, it's still a decent introduction
 to Drexciya for many people, and in the US nobody has ever heard of
 Drexciya. Hell, I doubt many people in Detroit actually know who they are,
 trust me, I lived there. People know the song Good Life for sure, and old
 Cybotron records, but really people only know the first wave well.

 Mad Mike has been clear in his interviews, in that what hurts him most
 is that the black community in the US has not embraced techno and that the
 music has not been able to play the positive role in the local Detroit
 community that he hoped over the long term. I understand the fundamental
 vision of UR as one of building local infrastructure so the community could
 prosper. There is a strong self-help and DIY ethos. Reference:
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5T0E6iLWhI

 The approach to race that I see in UR is to be proud of it, to confront
 racial issues directly, but combined with a belief in the universal power
 of sound to heal and to build bridges between people.

 The real reason you 

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

[Denise Dalphond]

Mike Banks owns a museum. It's called Exhibit 3000.

It's for education. So people don't get confused.


*Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.*
*ethnomusicologist*
*schoolcraftwax.work *


On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 12:39 PM David A. Powers  wrote:

> Denise,
>
> I lived in the city, I talk to my friends in the city every week, and I
> played a gig there recently. I know exactly what's going on.
>
> First of all, Red Bull, really? They literally pimp out art and artists in
> order to sell shitty corporate drugs that are terrible for the human body.
> I'm glad that artists get paid even if it's by Red Bull, but seriously,
> screw them.
>
> Second, it's quite obvious that we are talking about literally TWO
> DIFFERENT THINGS.
>
> You are talking about museums. I'm talking about selling records and
> making money! I'm talking about this:
> http://submerge.com/
>
> Do you honestly think that black artists in the US can live off of
> cultural recognition by the city of Detroit?
> How many Detroit techno records are selling in the Detroit area?
> UR has trouble paying the bills. Musicians need to make money.
> You can't make a living as a Detroit techno artist IN DETROIT.
> All the artists you mentioned got notoriety overseas before they got
> hometown recognition.
>
> Musicians need to work together to carry on the work that UR started, and
> part of this work is trying to find a way to sell records in the United
> States.
> This is hard work, and it involves all musicians and artists including the
> Detroit techno community.
> What people write about the music second hand is not so important as what
> musicians do to move the music forward in the present.
>
> Motown, UR, and Chicago's AACM are all examples of the kind of ethos I
> advocate.
> What matters is what we musicians do to help each other and build a better
> future together.
> Building a better future is what techno is all about.
>
>
> ~David
>
> On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 10:21 AM Denise Dalphond 
> wrote:
>
>> Detroiters of color definitely give a shit about techno. Your statement
>> is completely wrong and off base. All you have to do is visit the instagram
>> account of Underground Resistance.
>>
>> https://www.instagram.com/undergroundresistance313/?hl=en
>>
>> It is filled with Black and Brown faces. In Detroit. Often, DJs hosting
>> parties all over Detroit are Black and Brown people, and the crowds are
>> full of people of color.
>>
>> People are being duped with old ideas about clan mentality and who the
>> true fans are. Think what you want, but be careful what you say using Mike
>> Bank's words to support your opinions.
>>
>> Moodymann's Prince museum is directly across the street from Submerge.
>> Carl Craig's studio is nearby. A mile west is Motown's original
>> headquarters. You have no idea what kind of support these geniuses can
>> garner in their own town now. Red Bull has a space in Detroit. It doesn't
>> only open its doors to white people. Black and Brown people visit too.
>> Submerge had an exhibit in the RBMA space about Detroit house music. You
>> don't know what current Detroit techno even looks like. It's a vibrant
>> scene in the city of Detroit right now.
>>
>> You're blind.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.*
>> *ethnomusicologist*
>> *schoolcraftwax.work *
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 8:47 AM David A. Powers 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The irony of this situation is that in the big picture, even if the RA
>>> piece was produced in an unethical manner, it's still a decent introduction
>>> to Drexciya for many people, and in the US nobody has ever heard of
>>> Drexciya. Hell, I doubt many people in Detroit actually know who they are,
>>> trust me, I lived there. People know the song Good Life for sure, and old
>>> Cybotron records, but really people only know the first wave well.
>>>
>>> Mad Mike has been clear in his interviews, in that what hurts him most
>>> is that the black community in the US has not embraced techno and that the
>>> music has not been able to play the positive role in the local Detroit
>>> community that he hoped over the long term. I understand the fundamental
>>> vision of UR as one of building local infrastructure so the community could
>>> prosper. There is a strong self-help and DIY ethos. Reference:
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5T0E6iLWhI
>>>
>>> The approach to race that I see in UR is to be proud of it, to confront
>>> racial issues directly, but combined with a belief in the universal power
>>> of sound to heal and to build bridges between people.
>>>
>>> The real reason you don't have videos coming out of the US and Detroit
>>> about Drexciya with a narrator who is actually from the community, is that
>>> nobody in Detroit actual gives a shit about techno in the US, and this is
>>> nothing new, and so there's literally zero reason to freak out about it in
>>> the year 2018. I live in Austin Tx now after leaving the midwest a year
>>> ago. Almost 

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

[David A. Powers]

Denise,

I lived in the city, I talk to my friends in the city every week, and I
played a gig there recently. I know exactly what's going on.

First of all, Red Bull, really? They literally pimp out art and artists in
order to sell shitty corporate drugs that are terrible for the human body.
I'm glad that artists get paid even if it's by Red Bull, but seriously,
screw them.

Second, it's quite obvious that we are talking about literally TWO
DIFFERENT THINGS.

You are talking about museums. I'm talking about selling records and making
money! I'm talking about this:
http://submerge.com/

Do you honestly think that black artists in the US can live off of cultural
recognition by the city of Detroit?
How many Detroit techno records are selling in the Detroit area?
UR has trouble paying the bills. Musicians need to make money.
You can't make a living as a Detroit techno artist IN DETROIT.
All the artists you mentioned got notoriety overseas before they got
hometown recognition.

Musicians need to work together to carry on the work that UR started, and
part of this work is trying to find a way to sell records in the United
States.
This is hard work, and it involves all musicians and artists including the
Detroit techno community.
What people write about the music second hand is not so important as what
musicians do to move the music forward in the present.

Motown, UR, and Chicago's AACM are all examples of the kind of ethos I
advocate.
What matters is what we musicians do to help each other and build a better
future together.
Building a better future is what techno is all about.


~David

On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 10:21 AM Denise Dalphond 
wrote:

> Detroiters of color definitely give a shit about techno. Your statement is
> completely wrong and off base. All you have to do is visit the instagram
> account of Underground Resistance.
>
> https://www.instagram.com/undergroundresistance313/?hl=en
>
> It is filled with Black and Brown faces. In Detroit. Often, DJs hosting
> parties all over Detroit are Black and Brown people, and the crowds are
> full of people of color.
>
> People are being duped with old ideas about clan mentality and who the
> true fans are. Think what you want, but be careful what you say using Mike
> Bank's words to support your opinions.
>
> Moodymann's Prince museum is directly across the street from Submerge.
> Carl Craig's studio is nearby. A mile west is Motown's original
> headquarters. You have no idea what kind of support these geniuses can
> garner in their own town now. Red Bull has a space in Detroit. It doesn't
> only open its doors to white people. Black and Brown people visit too.
> Submerge had an exhibit in the RBMA space about Detroit house music. You
> don't know what current Detroit techno even looks like. It's a vibrant
> scene in the city of Detroit right now.
>
> You're blind.
>
>
>
>
> *Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.*
> *ethnomusicologist*
> *schoolcraftwax.work *
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 8:47 AM David A. Powers  wrote:
>
>> The irony of this situation is that in the big picture, even if the RA
>> piece was produced in an unethical manner, it's still a decent introduction
>> to Drexciya for many people, and in the US nobody has ever heard of
>> Drexciya. Hell, I doubt many people in Detroit actually know who they are,
>> trust me, I lived there. People know the song Good Life for sure, and old
>> Cybotron records, but really people only know the first wave well.
>>
>> Mad Mike has been clear in his interviews, in that what hurts him most is
>> that the black community in the US has not embraced techno and that the
>> music has not been able to play the positive role in the local Detroit
>> community that he hoped over the long term. I understand the fundamental
>> vision of UR as one of building local infrastructure so the community could
>> prosper. There is a strong self-help and DIY ethos. Reference:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5T0E6iLWhI
>>
>> The approach to race that I see in UR is to be proud of it, to confront
>> racial issues directly, but combined with a belief in the universal power
>> of sound to heal and to build bridges between people.
>>
>> The real reason you don't have videos coming out of the US and Detroit
>> about Drexciya with a narrator who is actually from the community, is that
>> nobody in Detroit actual gives a shit about techno in the US, and this is
>> nothing new, and so there's literally zero reason to freak out about it in
>> the year 2018. I live in Austin Tx now after leaving the midwest a year
>> ago. Almost nobody I have spoken with, black or white, has ever heard of
>> Detroit techno here. I have to try to explain to people what it is. There
>> is slightly more familiarity with Chicago House.
>>
>> In most of the US, nobody has ever heard of "Detroit Techno" and they no
>> longer have any idea what the term might signify as a genre. Furthermore,
>> the US is a huge country. Detroit techno is simply one 

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

[Fred Heutte]

For those who haven't seen it:

http://daily.redbullmusicacademy.com/2017/06/drexciya-infinite-journey-to-inner-space

fh

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

[Kevin Kennedy]

David, without the rest of the world, where would Detroit artists escape to?
I understand what is at the crux of your argument... But I would still
consider that the vitriol comes from the telling of a local story that can
and has been told not only by others, but can be told with a deeper
understanding of the subject.

That's like a biography about your own life story being told with Google
search results and the author never speaks with your friends or family.

I refuse to say that it's OK.  But if we're going to look at RA for a high
standard of academic level journalism...I think we aren't going to find
that.

I am not sure any longer how much I feel about this, I don't speak for
anyone but myself and any reading this should please take a moment to
consider that piece of information.

The truth of the dead is that other people will write your narrative.

And sadly the most odd thing is that there are no 'new' ideas under the
sun... But some enterprising young journalists will always be able to find
an opportunity to rework an old story and make people think of it as a new
one.  "everything is a remix..." isn't just a documentary.

I have no credibility in academia and I barely have credibility in the
world of dance music, though I am rather affiliated with the wonderful
community of Detroit.

However, maybe we should find a way to use what has been another rise in
the activity of this forum for something positive?






On Oct 19, 2018 8:47 AM, "David A. Powers"  wrote:

The irony of this situation is that in the big picture, even if the RA
piece was produced in an unethical manner, it's still a decent introduction
to Drexciya for many people, and in the US nobody has ever heard of
Drexciya. Hell, I doubt many people in Detroit actually know who they are,
trust me, I lived there. People know the song Good Life for sure, and old
Cybotron records, but really people only know the first wave well.

Mad Mike has been clear in his interviews, in that what hurts him most is
that the black community in the US has not embraced techno and that the
music has not been able to play the positive role in the local Detroit
community that he hoped over the long term. I understand the fundamental
vision of UR as one of building local infrastructure so the community could
prosper. There is a strong self-help and DIY ethos. Reference:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5T0E6iLWhI

The approach to race that I see in UR is to be proud of it, to confront
racial issues directly, but combined with a belief in the universal power
of sound to heal and to build bridges between people.

The real reason you don't have videos coming out of the US and Detroit
about Drexciya with a narrator who is actually from the community, is that
nobody in Detroit actual gives a shit about techno in the US, and this is
nothing new, and so there's literally zero reason to freak out about it in
the year 2018. I live in Austin Tx now after leaving the midwest a year
ago. Almost nobody I have spoken with, black or white, has ever heard of
Detroit techno here. I have to try to explain to people what it is. There
is slightly more familiarity with Chicago House.

In most of the US, nobody has ever heard of "Detroit Techno" and they no
longer have any idea what the term might signify as a genre. Furthermore,
the US is a huge country. Detroit techno is simply one regional style in a
gigantic country full of little regional musical styles. Although it was
vastly important to the development of European dance music, the fact is
that the US does not support musicians, and all musicians in the US
struggle, even before you consider race. The average income for a full time
musician in the US is $20,000.

By the way, this is why it is vital for all musicians to work together to
build our own infrastructure and work together to create sustainable
solutions. As inspiring as UR is, it has not turned out to be a long term
sustainable business model. Part of the problem really does seem to be the
lack of local support of the music, because to run a sustainable local
business you don't want all your customers to live on the other side of the
planet.

The real hard work of the future is in getting our hands dirty and building
sustainable infrastructure from the ground up for the long term, that is
resilient enough to withstand the next 100 years of slow energy descent as
fossil fuels run out and we experience further instability due to the
shifting climate.

I want to offer a strong plea to all musicians and producers on this list
to work together for the long term to create this kind of sustainable
infrastructure, and actively work to build the community of musicians,
especially if you are in the US. And anyone has any great ideas, I'd love
to hear them. Nobody is going to create our future for us, if we don't
build it, there won't be a future... A lot of people are losing their minds
right now engaging in useless debates, but there is real work to be done
and there is 

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

[Denise Dalphond]

Detroiters of color definitely give a shit about techno. Your statement is
completely wrong and off base. All you have to do is visit the instagram
account of Underground Resistance.

https://www.instagram.com/undergroundresistance313/?hl=en

It is filled with Black and Brown faces. In Detroit. Often, DJs hosting
parties all over Detroit are Black and Brown people, and the crowds are
full of people of color.

People are being duped with old ideas about clan mentality and who the true
fans are. Think what you want, but be careful what you say using Mike
Bank's words to support your opinions.

Moodymann's Prince museum is directly across the street from Submerge. Carl
Craig's studio is nearby. A mile west is Motown's original headquarters.
You have no idea what kind of support these geniuses can garner in their
own town now. Red Bull has a space in Detroit. It doesn't only open its
doors to white people. Black and Brown people visit too. Submerge had an
exhibit in the RBMA space about Detroit house music. You don't know what
current Detroit techno even looks like. It's a vibrant scene in the city of
Detroit right now.

You're blind.




*Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.*
*ethnomusicologist*
*schoolcraftwax.work *


On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 8:47 AM David A. Powers  wrote:

> The irony of this situation is that in the big picture, even if the RA
> piece was produced in an unethical manner, it's still a decent introduction
> to Drexciya for many people, and in the US nobody has ever heard of
> Drexciya. Hell, I doubt many people in Detroit actually know who they are,
> trust me, I lived there. People know the song Good Life for sure, and old
> Cybotron records, but really people only know the first wave well.
>
> Mad Mike has been clear in his interviews, in that what hurts him most is
> that the black community in the US has not embraced techno and that the
> music has not been able to play the positive role in the local Detroit
> community that he hoped over the long term. I understand the fundamental
> vision of UR as one of building local infrastructure so the community could
> prosper. There is a strong self-help and DIY ethos. Reference:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5T0E6iLWhI
>
> The approach to race that I see in UR is to be proud of it, to confront
> racial issues directly, but combined with a belief in the universal power
> of sound to heal and to build bridges between people.
>
> The real reason you don't have videos coming out of the US and Detroit
> about Drexciya with a narrator who is actually from the community, is that
> nobody in Detroit actual gives a shit about techno in the US, and this is
> nothing new, and so there's literally zero reason to freak out about it in
> the year 2018. I live in Austin Tx now after leaving the midwest a year
> ago. Almost nobody I have spoken with, black or white, has ever heard of
> Detroit techno here. I have to try to explain to people what it is. There
> is slightly more familiarity with Chicago House.
>
> In most of the US, nobody has ever heard of "Detroit Techno" and they no
> longer have any idea what the term might signify as a genre. Furthermore,
> the US is a huge country. Detroit techno is simply one regional style in a
> gigantic country full of little regional musical styles. Although it was
> vastly important to the development of European dance music, the fact is
> that the US does not support musicians, and all musicians in the US
> struggle, even before you consider race. The average income for a full time
> musician in the US is $20,000.
>
> By the way, this is why it is vital for all musicians to work together to
> build our own infrastructure and work together to create sustainable
> solutions. As inspiring as UR is, it has not turned out to be a long term
> sustainable business model. Part of the problem really does seem to be the
> lack of local support of the music, because to run a sustainable local
> business you don't want all your customers to live on the other side of the
> planet.
>
> The real hard work of the future is in getting our hands dirty and
> building sustainable infrastructure from the ground up for the long term,
> that is resilient enough to withstand the next 100 years of slow energy
> descent as fossil fuels run out and we experience further instability due
> to the shifting climate.
>
> I want to offer a strong plea to all musicians and producers on this list
> to work together for the long term to create this kind of sustainable
> infrastructure, and actively work to build the community of musicians,
> especially if you are in the US. And anyone has any great ideas, I'd love
> to hear them. Nobody is going to create our future for us, if we don't
> build it, there won't be a future... A lot of people are losing their minds
> right now engaging in useless debates, but there is real work to be done
> and there is a need for good people who have the will and vision to
> continue the legacy of 

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

[David A. Powers]

The irony of this situation is that in the big picture, even if the RA
piece was produced in an unethical manner, it's still a decent introduction
to Drexciya for many people, and in the US nobody has ever heard of
Drexciya. Hell, I doubt many people in Detroit actually know who they are,
trust me, I lived there. People know the song Good Life for sure, and old
Cybotron records, but really people only know the first wave well.

Mad Mike has been clear in his interviews, in that what hurts him most is
that the black community in the US has not embraced techno and that the
music has not been able to play the positive role in the local Detroit
community that he hoped over the long term. I understand the fundamental
vision of UR as one of building local infrastructure so the community could
prosper. There is a strong self-help and DIY ethos. Reference:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5T0E6iLWhI

The approach to race that I see in UR is to be proud of it, to confront
racial issues directly, but combined with a belief in the universal power
of sound to heal and to build bridges between people.

The real reason you don't have videos coming out of the US and Detroit
about Drexciya with a narrator who is actually from the community, is that
nobody in Detroit actual gives a shit about techno in the US, and this is
nothing new, and so there's literally zero reason to freak out about it in
the year 2018. I live in Austin Tx now after leaving the midwest a year
ago. Almost nobody I have spoken with, black or white, has ever heard of
Detroit techno here. I have to try to explain to people what it is. There
is slightly more familiarity with Chicago House.

In most of the US, nobody has ever heard of "Detroit Techno" and they no
longer have any idea what the term might signify as a genre. Furthermore,
the US is a huge country. Detroit techno is simply one regional style in a
gigantic country full of little regional musical styles. Although it was
vastly important to the development of European dance music, the fact is
that the US does not support musicians, and all musicians in the US
struggle, even before you consider race. The average income for a full time
musician in the US is $20,000.

By the way, this is why it is vital for all musicians to work together to
build our own infrastructure and work together to create sustainable
solutions. As inspiring as UR is, it has not turned out to be a long term
sustainable business model. Part of the problem really does seem to be the
lack of local support of the music, because to run a sustainable local
business you don't want all your customers to live on the other side of the
planet.

The real hard work of the future is in getting our hands dirty and building
sustainable infrastructure from the ground up for the long term, that is
resilient enough to withstand the next 100 years of slow energy descent as
fossil fuels run out and we experience further instability due to the
shifting climate.

I want to offer a strong plea to all musicians and producers on this list
to work together for the long term to create this kind of sustainable
infrastructure, and actively work to build the community of musicians,
especially if you are in the US. And anyone has any great ideas, I'd love
to hear them. Nobody is going to create our future for us, if we don't
build it, there won't be a future... A lot of people are losing their minds
right now engaging in useless debates, but there is real work to be done
and there is a need for good people who have the will and vision to
continue the legacy of Detroit techno by not only making great music but
also building stronger more sustainable communities. The survival of the
human race in the future might depend on the existence of sustainable
communities that are resilient enough to survive catastrophes.

313 email list, is a good example of a NON-sustainable community--dependent
on a particular form of communication (email list), there was long ago some
sense of community vibe but social media really destroyed that. I wonder,
is an authentic community around the idea of "Detroit techno" something
that is even possible in 2018, outside of living in Detroit and
participating directly, especially given that the list no longer connects
to the actually community of Detroit DJ's and producers. What IS the best
way to connect with people around the music in 2018?

Also, anybody have advice on promoting Detroit techno event in a city like
Austin TX? How can I spread the word about techno in a place where the
focus is mostly on country and singer-songwriters, and along with a lot of
sort of indie pop and punk?

~David

On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 6:25 AM  wrote:

> I do not. Maybe you should read my article about Drexciya and UR and
> Moodymann in Black Lives Matter and Music: Protest, Intervention,
> Reflection. It just came out.
>
> Denise Dalphond
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 19, 2018, at 07:00, Martin Dust  wrote:
> >
> > Yes it’s real, do you 

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

[denisedalphond]

I also write my ideas on schoolcraftwax.work

There’s another essay about techno that came out a few years ago that I wrote 
in a book called African American Music: An Introduction. 

Detroiters and techno heads have read my writing and critiqued my writing at my 
request. I’m not working in a vacuum. 

> On Oct 19, 2018, at 07:29, Martin Dust  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 19 Oct 2018, at 12:24, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
>> 
>> I do not. Maybe you should read my article about Drexciya and UR and 
>> Moodymann in Black Lives Matter and Music: Protest, Intervention, 
>> Reflection. It just came out. 
>> 
>> Denise Dalphond 
>> 
> 
> Then there’s nothing to discuss if you can see it.

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

[denisedalphond]

Yr Rt. 

> On Oct 19, 2018, at 07:29, Martin Dust  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 19 Oct 2018, at 12:24, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
>> 
>> I do not. Maybe you should read my article about Drexciya and UR and 
>> Moodymann in Black Lives Matter and Music: Protest, Intervention, 
>> Reflection. It just came out. 
>> 
>> Denise Dalphond 
>> 
> 
> Then there’s nothing to discuss if you can see it.

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

[Martin Dust]

> On 19 Oct 2018, at 12:24, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> I do not. Maybe you should read my article about Drexciya and UR and 
> Moodymann in Black Lives Matter and Music: Protest, Intervention, Reflection. 
> It just came out. 
> 
> Denise Dalphond 
> 

Then there’s nothing to discuss if you can see it.

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

[denisedalphond]

I do not. Maybe you should read my article about Drexciya and UR and Moodymann 
in Black Lives Matter and Music: Protest, Intervention, Reflection. It just 
came out. 

Denise Dalphond 














> On Oct 19, 2018, at 07:00, Martin Dust  wrote:
> 
> Yes it’s real, do you not see the logical fallacy in your argument?
> 
>> On 19 Oct 2018, at 11:56, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
>> 
>> Is this a real question? Dan Sicko was a actual Detroiter. 
>> 
>>> On Oct 19, 2018, at 05:43, Martin Dust  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Denise,
>>> 
>>> Do you feel the same about Dan Sicko’s book?
>>> 
>>> m
> 

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

[Martin Dust]

Yes it’s real, do you not see the logical fallacy in your argument?

> On 19 Oct 2018, at 11:56, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> Is this a real question? Dan Sicko was a actual Detroiter. 
> 
>> On Oct 19, 2018, at 05:43, Martin Dust  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Denise,
>> 
>> Do you feel the same about Dan Sicko’s book?
>> 
>> m

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

[denisedalphond]

Is this a real question? Dan Sicko was a actual Detroiter. 

> On Oct 19, 2018, at 05:43, Martin Dust  wrote:
> 
> Hi Denise,
> 
> Do you feel the same about Dan Sicko’s book?
> 
> m

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

[313]

Im with Denise on this one. ;-P

C

On 2018-10-19 10:43, Martin Dust wrote:

Hi Denise,

Do you feel the same about Dan Sicko’s book?

m

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

[Martin Dust]

Hi Denise,

Do you feel the same about Dan Sicko’s book?

m