RE: (313) Re-Edits?
One small note on this. Some re-edits are just as you describe (taking the peak bit over and over and repeating etc.). On the other hand some are indistinguishable from the original - so they are in fact bootlegs. This has its own issues but I admit to owning some of these where it's a tune I love and there's no way I can either find or afford an original. You may say so what, it's the re-edits I'm talking about, not the mis-labelled bootlegs but I was thinking of Anthony saying he was looking at Harvey's tunes and it saying Xre-edit (though if anyone should have the originals you'd think he would). Some re-edits are somewhere between the 2 where someone's putting out an obscure records but can't resist tinkering. One thing that irritates me is I've come across people who do re-edits with nothing much to them and they act like (and obviously think they are) some kind of star. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 10 September 2008 18:39 Easy to mix - and only really interesting to the DJ for any extended period of time. Then you get a real DJ in and people don't quite know what to do or make of it. The audience's ears gets dumb-down, like giving kids McDonald's burgers all their life. Then have them taste a real burger they might not like it as much because it's got the full range of taste - not just sweet and salt. I've seen supposedly real house people get totally put off by a DJ I know who plays the real deal. Not edits but full songs - most of them made before any of them were born. It's taken him years to get them to come around to it - and not just the party goers but other DJs in town Now he's a hero to everyone. He's even gotten kids who are into happy hardcore and psy-trance on board! Now there are a good handful of local djs playing the real thing. However, again, it's taken him years to get them to come around. I've been putting on shows with him for nearly 10 years now and it's only within the last three that people are finally going oh, I get it! Took us ages to even get people to show up for the shows and half of them were totally miffed as to what we we're doing. I think also a lot of it has to do with how DJs are booked and how the nights are built up. How many places have one DJ all night? All too often it's a more bang for the buck night with 4 or 5 jocks jockeying for position of best performance. If you've got so little time how can you possibly let a full disco tune play out? You shoot for the sweet spot and that means disco edits. However, it starts to shorten people's attention span for a song - and I mean a SONG. Not just a tune. It's the difference between exercising (a night of all disco edits) and exercising out some demons (a night of all disco songs). MEK [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 09/10/2008 11:16:17 AM: I just saw Dj Harvey do his Sarcastic Disco thing in this great venue in downtown L.A. rite around the corner from S.Central. Everytime I went up to see what he was playing it would say BLAH BLAH BLAH RE-EDITS. Should I be Happy A great Dj like himself is actually playing records? I tend to think the whole Re-edit craze takes away from the highs and lows the original track has to offer. I don't mind it as a tool here in there but Morgan Geist seems upset by it here. What'ch'all think? http://andybetablog.blogspot.com/2008/01/morgan-geist-interview.html
Re: (313) Re-Edits?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes it does happen. It happend Saturday night. Although I think Harvey is supposed to be a pioneer of the whole edit craze before it was fashionable like in the mid- 90's. Don't get me wrong, I had a blast. I was dancing my Tush off all night with no drugs. Im millitary now, so that part of my life is way over.LOL That would certainly be between when it was fashionable. The first period of dance edits were in the late '70s by Tom Moulton, Walter Gibbons, and Danny Krivit, and resulted in the birth of the disco 12. The second period (getting more repetitive as we go) was in the early '80s by Frankie Knuckles and Ron Hardy and resulted in the birth of house music. Then in the '90s, remixes got all slick and commercial and cheesy so it actually took a good fifteen years or so until people went back to listen to the old style and realize their value. Theo Parrish probably did the most to bring them back into the limelight. Cheers, Jacob -- underground music reviews http://www.gridface.com/
Re: (313) Re-Edits?
...and not forgetting Larry Levan. On Thu, Sep 11, 2008 at 8:44 PM, Jacob Arnold [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes it does happen. It happend Saturday night. Although I think Harvey is supposed to be a pioneer of the whole edit craze before it was fashionable like in the mid- 90's. Don't get me wrong, I had a blast. I was dancing my Tush off all night with no drugs. Im millitary now, so that part of my life is way over.LOL That would certainly be between when it was fashionable. The first period of dance edits were in the late '70s by Tom Moulton, Walter Gibbons, and Danny Krivit, and resulted in the birth of the disco 12. The second period (getting more repetitive as we go) was in the early '80s by Frankie Knuckles and Ron Hardy and resulted in the birth of house music. Then in the '90s, remixes got all slick and commercial and cheesy so it actually took a good fifteen years or so until people went back to listen to the old style and realize their value. Theo Parrish probably did the most to bring them back into the limelight. Cheers, Jacob -- underground music reviews http://www.gridface.com/
Re: (313) Re-Edits?
All i ment was before it was fashionable for dj's to be playing nothing but edit series. His Black Cock disco edits are extremly epnsive rare records now i suppose cause they came out before many labels started doing it. A thx for the timeline but francois k and larry levan and those legends never released edits. I believe it was their remixes that gave birth to the 12. Unless your saying there is no difference? On Thu, September 11, 2008 2:56 pm, Christian J. Hewstone wrote: ...and not forgetting Larry Levan. On Thu, Sep 11, 2008 at 8:44 PM, Jacob Arnold [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes it does happen. It happend Saturday night. Although I think Harvey is supposed to be a pioneer of the whole edit craze before it was fashionable like in the mid- 90's. Don't get me wrong, I had a blast. I was dancing my Tush off all night with no drugs. Im millitary now, so that part of my life is way over.LOL That would certainly be between when it was fashionable. The first period of dance edits were in the late '70s by Tom Moulton, Walter Gibbons, and Danny Krivit, and resulted in the birth of the disco 12. The second period (getting more repetitive as we go) was in the early '80s by Frankie Knuckles and Ron Hardy and resulted in the birth of house music. Then in the '90s, remixes got all slick and commercial and cheesy so it actually took a good fifteen years or so until people went back to listen to the old style and realize their value. Theo Parrish probably did the most to bring them back into the limelight. Cheers, Jacob -- underground music reviews http://www.gridface.com/
Re: (313) Re-Edits?
just to clarify before the words get confused edit = not having access to the original multi-tracks (most bootleg remixes are actually edits) therefore working with fairly rough cuts/splices compared to a remix remix = full access to the complete multi-track recordings - having the splits as it's called (separate tracks for drum, guitar, keyboard, vocals, etc.) I think you're right - Levan and others like him didn't do edits as they had direct access to the original studio recordings and were hired by the labels (like West End, Sunnyview, etc.) to do the remixes technically speaking MEK [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 09/11/2008 02:37:49 PM: All i ment was before it was fashionable for dj's to be playing nothing but edit series. His Black Cock disco edits are extremly epnsive rare records now i suppose cause they came out before many labels started doing it. A thx for the timeline but francois k and larry levan and those legends never released edits. I believe it was their remixes that gave birth to the 12. Unless your saying there is no difference? On Thu, September 11, 2008 2:56 pm, Christian J. Hewstone wrote: ...and not forgetting Larry Levan. On Thu, Sep 11, 2008 at 8:44 PM, Jacob Arnold [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes it does happen. It happend Saturday night. Although I think Harvey is supposed to be a pioneer of the whole edit craze before it was fashionable like in the mid- 90's. Don't get me wrong, I had a blast. I was dancing my Tush off all night with no drugs. Im millitary now, so that part of my life is way over.LOL That would certainly be between when it was fashionable. The first period of dance edits were in the late '70s by Tom Moulton, Walter Gibbons, and Danny Krivit, and resulted in the birth of the disco 12. The second period (getting more repetitive as we go) was in the early '80s by Frankie Knuckles and Ron Hardy and resulted in the birth of house music. Then in the '90s, remixes got all slick and commercial and cheesy so it actually took a good fifteen years or so until people went back to listen to the old style and realize their value. Theo Parrish probably did the most to bring them back into the limelight. Cheers, Jacob -- underground music reviews http://www.gridface.com/
Re: (313) Re-Edits?
Right rite. my favorite ol' school remix right now since ive played the two back to back are, Extascy passion pain's touch and go tom moulton mix. So amazing the way he put his own spin on that one. yeh those guys used to make edits for themselves, like for thier own sets/performances. which is badass! I think Theo does a good job of putting his own touch on the ugly edits series. Im sure theres been tons of debates over those the past few years. Ant On Thu, September 11, 2008 3:46 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: just to clarify before the words get confused edit = not having access to the original multi-tracks (most bootleg remixes are actually edits) therefore working with fairly rough cuts/splices compared to a remix remix = full access to the complete multi-track recordings - having the splits as it's called (separate tracks for drum, guitar, keyboard, vocals, etc.) I think you're right - Levan and others like him didn't do edits as they had direct access to the original studio recordings and were hired by the labels (like West End, Sunnyview, etc.) to do the remixes technically speaking MEK [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 09/11/2008 02:37:49 PM: All i ment was before it was fashionable for dj's to be playing nothing but edit series. His Black Cock disco edits are extremly epnsive rare records now i suppose cause they came out before many labels started doing it. A thx for the timeline but francois k and larry levan and those legends never released edits. I believe it was their remixes that gave birth to the 12. Unless your saying there is no difference? On Thu, September 11, 2008 2:56 pm, Christian J. Hewstone wrote: ...and not forgetting Larry Levan. On Thu, Sep 11, 2008 at 8:44 PM, Jacob Arnold [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes it does happen. It happend Saturday night. Although I think Harvey is supposed to be a pioneer of the whole edit craze before it was fashionable like in the mid- 90's. Don't get me wrong, I had a blast. I was dancing my Tush off all night with no drugs. Im millitary now, so that part of my life is way over.LOL That would certainly be between when it was fashionable. The first period of dance edits were in the late '70s by Tom Moulton, Walter Gibbons, and Danny Krivit, and resulted in the birth of the disco 12. The second period (getting more repetitive as we go) was in the early '80s by Frankie Knuckles and Ron Hardy and resulted in the birth of house music. Then in the '90s, remixes got all slick and commercial and cheesy so it actually took a good fifteen years or so until people went back to listen to the old style and realize their value. Theo Parrish probably did the most to bring them back into the limelight. Cheers, Jacob -- underground music reviews http://www.gridface.com/
(313) Re-Edits?
I just saw Dj Harvey do his Sarcastic Disco thing in this great venue in downtown L.A. rite around the corner from S.Central. Everytime I went up to see what he was playing it would say BLAH BLAH BLAH RE-EDITS. Should I be Happy A great Dj like himself is actually playing records? I tend to think the whole Re-edit craze takes away from the highs and lows the original track has to offer. I don't mind it as a tool here in there but Morgan Geist seems upset by it here. What'ch'all think? http://andybetablog.blogspot.com/2008/01/morgan-geist-interview.html Sorry if this has been a topic before. I just recently got back in the game:) L.L. Cool A.
Re: (313) Re-Edits?
I agree 100% with this: A lot of these edits and re-works take out the bad parts of the originals, so there are no emotional dynamics left. People just loop the best part of the records...it's kind of whitewashing the whole thing, or making it safe for instant gratification culture. Head straight to the musical orgasm, and then repeat the orgasm over and over and over again until it is rendered meaningless and monotonous. I prefer to keep the foreplay in, the teasing in...even the awkwardness in! It's part of the whole experience. Otherwise the record or DJ set has no dynamics or contrast. - and this: Look at the stuff that's really popular: it's music that uses the idea of disco, the fashion or imagined nostalgia of disco, the WORD disco, rather than disco itself. I could name 10 bands that have the word disco in their name and they all sound nothing like disco...the worst offenders are nearly rock, completely hyper-hetero, monotonous music, and the worst part is GIRLS seem to LOVE IT! I always thought women were smarter than men, but girls coming up to me requesting this stuff is making me second-guess that assessment. - except I'd say that there's lots of guys who love that trendy crap just as much without edits house just wouldn't have been the same, but the ease of technology has made it far to accessible for any old dude with a laptop and not much talent to make an edit MEK [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 09/10/2008 11:16:17 AM: I just saw Dj Harvey do his Sarcastic Disco thing in this great venue in downtown L.A. rite around the corner from S.Central. Everytime I went up to see what he was playing it would say BLAH BLAH BLAH RE-EDITS. Should I be Happy A great Dj like himself is actually playing records? I tend to think the whole Re-edit craze takes away from the highs and lows the original track has to offer. I don't mind it as a tool here in there but Morgan Geist seems upset by it here. What'ch'all think? http://andybetablog.blogspot.com/2008/01/morgan-geist-interview.html Sorry if this has been a topic before. I just recently got back in the game:) L.L. Cool A.
Re: (313) Re-Edits?
ha , why's it gotta be an old guy? LOL It's possible im the youngest cat on this list. My 24th b-day was late July. On Thu, September 11, 2008 12:04 am, kent williams wrote: Yeah those old guys with their laptops and not much ... Hay WAITAMINIT! On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 11:57 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... but the ease of technology has made it far to accessible for any old dude with a laptop and not much talent to make an edit
Re: (313) Re-Edits?
sorry, didn't mean old as in age - should have said any ol' dude I'm hitting 40 soon so I can't. *.* dear god, I'm hitting 40 soon MEK [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 09/10/2008 12:11:15 PM: ha , why's it gotta be an old guy? LOL It's possible im the youngest cat on this list. My 24th b-day was late July. On Thu, September 11, 2008 12:04 am, kent williams wrote: Yeah those old guys with their laptops and not much ... Hay WAITAMINIT! On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 11:57 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... but the ease of technology has made it far to accessible for any old dude with a laptop and not much talent to make an edit
Re: (313) Re-Edits?
It's akin to me telling my 13-year-old sister that techno was created by black people in Detroit and her laughing, thinking I was making a joke. It wasn't a joke! But her perception of techno was formed by totally different cultural cues. Morgan is on cue here. None of my non-music obssessed friends would believe it for a minute. On Thu, September 11, 2008 12:13 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: thanks for the great interview link!! m At 09:16 2008.09.10, you wrote: I just saw Dj Harvey do his Sarcastic Disco thing in this great venue in downtown L.A. rite around the corner from S.Central. Everytime I went up to see what he was playing it would say BLAH BLAH BLAH RE-EDITS. Should I be Happy A great Dj like himself is actually playing records? I tend to think the whole Re-edit craze takes away from the highs and lows the original track has to offer. I don't mind it as a tool here in there but Morgan Geist seems upset by it here. What'ch'all think? http://andybetablog.blogspot.com/2008/01/morgan-geist-interview.html Sorry if this has been a topic before. I just recently got back in the game:) L.L. Cool A.
Re: (313) Re-Edits?
Easy to mix - and only really interesting to the DJ for any extended period of time. Then you get a real DJ in and people don't quite know what to do or make of it. The audience's ears gets dumb-down, like giving kids McDonald's burgers all their life. Then have them taste a real burger they might not like it as much because it's got the full range of taste - not just sweet and salt. I've seen supposedly real house people get totally put off by a DJ I know who plays the real deal. Not edits but full songs - most of them made before any of them were born. It's taken him years to get them to come around to it - and not just the party goers but other DJs in town Now he's a hero to everyone. He's even gotten kids who are into happy hardcore and psy-trance on board! Now there are a good handful of local djs playing the real thing. However, again, it's taken him years to get them to come around. I've been putting on shows with him for nearly 10 years now and it's only within the last three that people are finally going oh, I get it! Took us ages to even get people to show up for the shows and half of them were totally miffed as to what we we're doing. I think also a lot of it has to do with how DJs are booked and how the nights are built up. How many places have one DJ all night? All too often it's a more bang for the buck night with 4 or 5 jocks jockeying for position of best performance. If you've got so little time how can you possibly let a full disco tune play out? You shoot for the sweet spot and that means disco edits. However, it starts to shorten people's attention span for a song - and I mean a SONG. Not just a tune. It's the difference between exercising (a night of all disco edits) and exercising out some demons (a night of all disco songs). MEK [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 09/10/2008 11:16:17 AM: I just saw Dj Harvey do his Sarcastic Disco thing in this great venue in downtown L.A. rite around the corner from S.Central. Everytime I went up to see what he was playing it would say BLAH BLAH BLAH RE-EDITS. Should I be Happy A great Dj like himself is actually playing records? I tend to think the whole Re-edit craze takes away from the highs and lows the original track has to offer. I don't mind it as a tool here in there but Morgan Geist seems upset by it here. What'ch'all think? http://andybetablog.blogspot.com/2008/01/morgan-geist-interview.html Sorry if this has been a topic before. I just recently got back in the game:) L.L. Cool A.
Re: (313) Re-Edits?
Good analogy. It sounds to me though, that this is another discussion that's really simply about whether the music is good or if it's bad, disguised in this case as a format/medium discussion. (See previous technical issue discussion). If I really analyze my motivation for liking music, honestly and critically, I come up bust. I find that discussions such as this are merely me rationalizing the innately irrational. On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 12:38 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Easy to mix - and only really interesting to the DJ for any extended period of time. Then you get a real DJ in and people don't quite know what to do or make of it. The audience's ears gets dumb-down, like giving kids McDonald's burgers all their life. Then have them taste a real burger they might not like it as much because it's got the full range of taste - not just sweet and salt.
Re: (313) Re-Edits?
Well, I agree - it is really a matter of good vs bad music, and more importantly, good vs bad selections within the mix. I could see an edit working well if you use it to reference the full song - tease them out with the edit/edits and then drop the big full production on them. I've always thought the re-edits were made for that purpose. A night of all disco re-edits? Egad! Does that really happen? MEK Thor Teague [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 09/10/2008 12:45:04 PM: Good analogy. It sounds to me though, that this is another discussion that's really simply about whether the music is good or if it's bad, disguised in this case as a format/medium discussion. (See previous technical issue discussion). If I really analyze my motivation for liking music, honestly and critically, I come up bust. I find that discussions such as this are merely me rationalizing the innately irrational. On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 12:38 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Easy to mix - and only really interesting to the DJ for any extended period of time. Then you get a real DJ in and people don't quite know what to do or make of it. The audience's ears gets dumb-down, like giving kids McDonald's burgers all their life. Then have them taste a real burger they might not like it as much because it's got the full range of taste - not just sweet and salt.
Re: (313) Re-Edits?
On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 1:56 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A night of all disco re-edits? Egad! Does that really happen? Why not? All-mashup nights are considered high culture. -- matt kane's brain techno radio at: http://hydrogenproject.com http://wzbc.org capoeira in boston http://capoeirageraisusa.com aim - mkbatwerk ; y! - mkb218 ; gtalk - mkb.dirtyorg
Re: (313) Re-Edits?
stop it - shut up - no no no no no la la la la la - I'm not listening! ;-) MEK [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 09/10/2008 12:58:10 PM: On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 1:56 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A night of all disco re-edits? Egad! Does that really happen? Why not? All-mashup nights are considered high culture. -- matt kane's brain techno radio at: http://hydrogenproject.com http://wzbc.org capoeira in boston http://capoeirageraisusa.com aim - mkbatwerk ; y! - mkb218 ; gtalk - mkb.dirtyorg
Re: (313) Re-Edits?
Yes it does happen. It happend Saturday night. Although I think Harvey is supposed to be a pioneer of the whole edit craze before it was fashionable like in the mid- 90's. Don't get me wrong, I had a blast. I was dancing my Tush off all night with no drugs. Im millitary now, so that part of my life is way over.LOL On Thu, September 11, 2008 1:12 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: stop it - shut up - no no no no no la la la la la - I'm not listening! ;-) MEK [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 09/10/2008 12:58:10 PM: On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 1:56 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A night of all disco re-edits? Egad! Does that really happen? Why not? All-mashup nights are considered high culture. -- matt kane's brain techno radio at: http://hydrogenproject.com http://wzbc.org capoeira in boston http://capoeirageraisusa.com aim - mkbatwerk ; y! - mkb218 ; gtalk - mkb.dirtyorg
