FW: [313] Jeff Mills interview on-line
-- Forwarded Message From: veto [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 09:25:43 +0100 To: T.J.Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED], 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [313] Jeff Mills interview on-line I have challenged my physics professors too many times to count. My god, I have such total sympathy with your professor!! Basically, if man ever does discover that something travels faster than 3 x 10^8 m/s, science falls apart, I found most of this post to be pretty silly but this point in particular struck a chord- are you really saying that if faster than light particles are proved beyond doubt to exist that a car whose aerodynamics were formulated using quantum uncertainty algorithms will stop being aerodynamic? Or that your microwave oven will cease to operate. Science didn't fall apart when it was discovered that light travels through space in a vacuum and not some ether as was previously believed (the same ether that held people onto the surface of the Earth before the discovery of Gravity), not did it fall apart when it was discovered that the Earth orbits the Sun and not vice versa (although a few people's world may have!), Science expands to incorporate new ideas as and when they come about, usually with a delay of a few decade, The interesting thing is the the writer complains of a feeling of brainwashing and having the Imagination programmed out of him- quantum theory was one of the most imaginative feats of the 20th century- thinking of things in two different way simultaneously- wave/particle duality is no mean feat. I believe that Techno can inspire original thoughts and I also believe that it can have a theoretical base however, too often this is simply a case of covering for a lack of any real originality or talent (Ritchie Hawtin in my opinion), also these things can be taken just a little bit too far (I am just old enough to remember the horrors of Emerson Lake and Palmer and Genesis concept albums some of which were based on similar utopian society ideas as are being touted about today by techno producers who should know better). Sometimes I think that when it is our time to understand, we will. And until that point we should just keep our heads under the parapet?? Jason Brunton Iridite PS Has anyone heard any good RECORDS recently??? -- End of Forwarded Message - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FW: [313] Jeff Mills interview on-line
Sometimes I think that when it is our time to understand, we will. And until that point we should just keep our heads under the parapet?? Yeah maybe. Or you could go on believing everything your physics professor has to say. The truth is that man will never understand even a minute fraction of life and the way things work. You base your statement on man's burning curiosity, which is a totally valid point. I, myself, fall into this category. I am just saying from personal experience, that when you assign all the naturally occuring events a number, it just get's boring and leaves less room for the imagination to kick in. BTW particle and wave duality is just another small example of science's flaws. They categorize everything and then WHAM! Something like that comes along and throws a monkey wrech into the equation. Then they try to find out why and fix it. I guess it is something to do to pass the time, but to egg people on by paying them money to fill their heads with it? Not cool. I liked it better when the scientists (Plato, Socrates, etc.)just taught whoever would listen. TJ www.wireframerecords.com www.outrecords.com PeoplePC: It's for people. And it's just smart. http://www.peoplepc.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FW: [313] Jeff Mills interview on-line
Yeah maybe. Or you could go on believing everything your physics professor has to say. The truth is that man will never understand even a minute fraction of life and the way things work. Or perhaps you can believe there's some truth to what your prof. is saying and use your imagination to come up with new and wild experiments to try and disprove these theories. You base your statement on man's burning curiosity, which is a totally valid point. I, myself, fall into this category. I am just saying from personal experience, that when you assign all the naturally occuring events a number, it just get's boring and leaves less room for the imagination to kick in. Name me one physicist who looks at everything around them as a number, and I will grant you one insane physicist. We are still human, we still see trees as trees, rocks as rocks, and stars as something truly magnificent that most people take for granted. BTW particle and wave duality is just another small example of science's flaws. They categorize everything and then WHAM! Something like that comes along and throws a monkey wrech into the equation. Then they try to find out why and fix it. I guess it is something to do to pass the time, but to egg people on by paying them money to fill their heads with it? Not cool. I liked it better when the scientists (Plato, Socrates, etc.)just taught whoever would listen. And? At one point we thought the earth was flat, so we learn diffferently through using our imaginations, and trial and error that we would not indeed fall of the face of the earth. The reason your able to do more than half the imaginative things you think you are doing today is because of physics and other sciences. Imagination is half the process of figuring out a new equation or possible theory. The other half consists of a strong mind, and the ability to learn. Something many of us in today's society severely lack, because we are too comfortable, and have far too many other things to do. As for Plato and Socrates teaching those that would listen, they got paid, they taught rich kids, if you think they didn't you haven't read enough about them. Cheers todd - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FW: [313] Jeff Mills interview on-line
As for Plato and Socrates teaching those that would listen, they got paid, they taught rich kids, if you think they didn't you haven't read enough about them. Cheers todd I have read enough and don't appreciate your condescending comments. You are totally missing my harmless point. I am not condemning anyone for being a scientist or even studying science. If YOU would like to read up about how Socrates declined to get paid (www.philosophypages.com/ph/socr.htm) then be my guest. I can care less if you agree with me or not. You are missing my point. My point from the get-go is that knowledge replaces imagination. If you don't agree with me, then please give me your reasoning behind the loss of imagination as one gets older. All I am saying is that if you are going to study science, it would be ideal to try and keep an open mind to the unknown. That is basically what Jeff Mills is saying in his interview and I am just saying that I agree with him. Why does that piss people off and urge them to toss personal attacks about intelligence? TJ www.wireframerecords.com www.outrecords.com PeoplePC: It's for people. And it's just smart. http://www.peoplepc.com --- End of forwarded message --- TJ www.wireframerecords.com www.outrecords.com PeoplePC: It's for people. And it's just smart. http://www.peoplepc.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FW: [313] Jeff Mills interview on-line
My point from the get-go is that knowledge replaces imagination. If you don't agree with me, then please give me your reasoning behind the loss of imagination as one gets older. All I am saying is that if you are going to study science, it would be ideal to try and keep an open mind to the unknown. That is basically what Jeff Mills is saying in his interview and I am just saying that I agree with him. Why does that piss people off and urge them to toss personal attacks about intelligence? no TJ... knowledge doesn't replace imagination, it's the basis of it.. do you think jeff mills could have imagined or realized his music when he was aa kid? lack of knowledge doesn't create imagination, it creates ignorance... blissful as it may seem, it's not the same as imagination. it does cause less worries etc. but imagination, no knowledge does that, you need something to spark your imagination. the point you are making that you should always keep an open mind is very valid, your arguments just don't hold water if you'd prefer to remain a child i feel very sorry for you, that seems very ignorant to me. if you, however, want to keep an open mind studying whatever, then we're on the same wavelength... but please don't say that knowledge replaces imagination, that's just plain wrong. knowledge feeds it. Christian Bloch http://mp3.com/bloch http://www.mp313.com/christianbloch.htm Tresor/LL/Deep Night Essentials/Simple Muzik/Funque Droppings/Set.Go/Restructured - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FW: [313] Jeff Mills interview on-line
and, sorry to double post, but do you honestly feel that einstein's theory of relativity took less imagination than that of playing when you were a kid? Christian Bloch http://mp3.com/bloch http://www.mp313.com/christianbloch.htm Tresor/LL/Deep Night Essentials/Simple Muzik/Funque Droppings/Set.Go/Restructured - Original Message - From: Christian Bloch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 6:07 PM Subject: Re: FW: [313] Jeff Mills interview on-line My point from the get-go is that knowledge replaces imagination. If you don't agree with me, then please give me your reasoning behind the loss of imagination as one gets older. All I am saying is that if you are going to study science, it would be ideal to try and keep an open mind to the unknown. That is basically what Jeff Mills is saying in his interview and I am just saying that I agree with him. Why does that piss people off and urge them to toss personal attacks about intelligence? no TJ... knowledge doesn't replace imagination, it's the basis of it.. do you think jeff mills could have imagined or realized his music when he was aa kid? lack of knowledge doesn't create imagination, it creates ignorance... blissful as it may seem, it's not the same as imagination. it does cause less worries etc. but imagination, no knowledge does that, you need something to spark your imagination. the point you are making that you should always keep an open mind is very valid, your arguments just don't hold water if you'd prefer to remain a child i feel very sorry for you, that seems very ignorant to me. if you, however, want to keep an open mind studying whatever, then we're on the same wavelength... but please don't say that knowledge replaces imagination, that's just plain wrong. knowledge feeds it. Christian Bloch http://mp3.com/bloch http://www.mp313.com/christianbloch.htm Tresor/LL/Deep Night Essentials/Simple Muzik/Funque Droppings/Set.Go/Restructured - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: FW: [313] Jeff Mills interview on-line
| -Original Message- | From: T.J.Johnson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 4:25 PM | | My point from the get-go is that knowledge replaces | imagination. I don't agree with this; however I would say that the perception of knowledge *can* inhibit imagination. Namely that if we believe things to be absolutely true when there exists even an infinitesimal level of doubt that they actually are, we are limiting our imaginations. The accumulation of knowledge itself will not necessarily limit the imagination of a person, although certain types of people are often too quick to accept certain things as absolute truths. Perhaps it could be said that a reluctance to ask questions is often the sign of a dwindling level of imaginative potency? Not really my specialist subject, though. Ob313: that Bug Orchestra record is amazing isn't it? Brendan - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FW: [313] Jeff Mills interview on-line
no definately not. Einstein is one of the most imaginative peope in history IMO. People who take the theory of relativity and say it is the law and not to question it are the people who I am referring too. Namely, Michael Narlock, my University Physics Prof. On Wed, 14 November 2001, Christian Bloch wrote: and, sorry to double post, but do you honestly feel that einstein's theory of relativity took less imagination than that of playing when you were a kid? Christian Bloch http://mp3.com/bloch http://www.mp313.com/christianbloch.htm Tresor/LL/Deep Night Essentials/Simple Muzik/Funque Droppings/Set.Go/Restructured - Original Message - From: Christian Bloch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 6:07 PM Subject: Re: FW: [313] Jeff Mills interview on-line My point from the get-go is that knowledge replaces imagination. If you don't agree with me, then please give me your reasoning behind the loss of imagination as one gets older. All I am saying is that if you are going to study science, it would be ideal to try and keep an open mind to the unknown. That is basically what Jeff Mills is saying in his interview and I am just saying that I agree with him. Why does that piss people off and urge them to toss personal attacks about intelligence? no TJ... knowledge doesn't replace imagination, it's the basis of it.. do you think jeff mills could have imagined or realized his music when he was aa kid? lack of knowledge doesn't create imagination, it creates ignorance... blissful as it may seem, it's not the same as imagination. it does cause less worries etc. but imagination, no knowledge does that, you need something to spark your imagination. the point you are making that you should always keep an open mind is very valid, your arguments just don't hold water if you'd prefer to remain a child i feel very sorry for you, that seems very ignorant to me. if you, however, want to keep an open mind studying whatever, then we're on the same wavelength... but please don't say that knowledge replaces imagination, that's just plain wrong. knowledge feeds it. Christian Bloch http://mp3.com/bloch http://www.mp313.com/christianbloch.htm Tresor/LL/Deep Night Essentials/Simple Muzik/Funque Droppings/Set.Go/Restructured - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TJ www.wireframerecords.com www.outrecords.com PeoplePC: It's for people. And it's just smart. http://www.peoplepc.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FW: [313] Jeff Mills interview on-line
You're right. I don't want to remain a kid. I guess that I was just trying to figure out why a kid's imagination is so vivid until he get's older, but you are right. When one gains knowledge, he is able to imagine on a deeper level, provided his brain isn't full of too much knowledge=) On Wed, 14 November 2001, Christian Bloch wrote: My point from the get-go is that knowledge replaces imagination. If you don't agree with me, then please give me your reasoning behind the loss of imagination as one gets older. All I am saying is that if you are going to study science, it would be ideal to try and keep an open mind to the unknown. That is basically what Jeff Mills is saying in his interview and I am just saying that I agree with him. Why does that piss people off and urge them to toss personal attacks about intelligence? no TJ... knowledge doesn't replace imagination, it's the basis of it.. do you think jeff mills could have imagined or realized his music when he was aa kid? lack of knowledge doesn't create imagination, it creates ignorance... blissful as it may seem, it's not the same as imagination. it does cause less worries etc. but imagination, no knowledge does that, you need something to spark your imagination. the point you are making that you should always keep an open mind is very valid, your arguments just don't hold water if you'd prefer to remain a child i feel very sorry for you, that seems very ignorant to me. if you, however, want to keep an open mind studying whatever, then we're on the same wavelength... but please don't say that knowledge replaces imagination, that's just plain wrong. knowledge feeds it. Christian Bloch http://mp3.com/bloch http://www.mp313.com/christianbloch.htm Tresor/LL/Deep Night Essentials/Simple Muzik/Funque Droppings/Set.Go/Restructured - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TJ www.wireframerecords.com www.outrecords.com PeoplePC: It's for people. And it's just smart. http://www.peoplepc.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FW: [313] Jeff Mills interview on-line
- Original Message - From: T.J.Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 6:19 PM Subject: Re: FW: [313] Jeff Mills interview on-line no definately not. Einstein is one of the most imaginative peope in history IMO. People who take the theory of relativity and say it is the law and not to question it are the people who I am referring too. Namely, Michael Narlock, my University Physics Prof. so how does that go hand in hand with your argument that knowledge replaces imagination? and that you loose your imagination when you grow up? i do see your point TJ, but please don't say that knowledge replaces imagination... if your physics professor truly is knowledgable would you then say that that is the cause of his lack of imagination? i'd prefer to say it might be because he's an unimaginative person Christian Bloch http://mp3.com/bloch http://www.mp313.com/christianbloch.htm Tresor/LL/Deep Night Essentials/Simple Muzik/Funque Droppings/Set.Go/Restructured - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: FW: [313] Jeff Mills interview on-line
| My point from the get-go is that knowledge replaces | imagination. Let me expand. The process of learning knowledge and working a full time job that uses that knowledge, leaves little or no room or time for the imagination to venture. Can we just agree on that point now that I have clarified? I T-totally agree that knowledge and imagination go hand-in-hand and this list has brought that to my imagination. Thanks. What I really mean is the above... Peace! TJ www.wireframerecords.com www.outrecords.com PeoplePC: It's for people. And it's just smart. http://www.peoplepc.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
