Re: (313) Ben Sims kicks ass???

2000-03-17 Thread DJT1000

In a message dated 3/16/00 8:41:11 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< damn 2 mailing lists now with threads about name spelling..well this isn't 
as 
bad as the other...derek may from canada and derrick may from detroit heh go 
figure
 >>

How about "Ritchie" Hawtin ?

a.


Re: (313) Ben Sims kicks ass???

2000-03-17 Thread MuSiCJuNkiE
In a message dated 03/16/2000 9:28:13 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< 
 Okay, now who's messing around with names?... ;)
 
 .John.
  >>
damn 2 mailing lists now with threads about name spelling..well this isn't as 
bad as the other...derek may from canada and derrick may from detroit heh go 
figure


RE: (313) Ben Sims kicks ass???

2000-03-16 Thread John Bush
> > I'm Dave Clark. Spell his damn name with
> > an 'e' like it's meant to be spelled.
>
> Once n for all, i'm not english, and I don't own bush.

Okay, now who's messing around with names?... ;)

.John.


(who never wants to be known as "The Bushman" or "Bushy-tale" ever again...)

(and no George W. jokes either, smart guys!)




Re: (313) Ben Sims kicks ass???

2000-03-16 Thread Dave Clark
On 16 Mar 00, at 14:32, bart wolff wrote:

> >Or Dave Clarke
> 
> You mean d.d.d.d.d.d.d.d.d.d.d.d.dave clark :)

I'm Dave Clark. Spell his damn name with an 'e' like it's meant to 
be spelled.

Once n for all, i'm not english, and I don't own bush.

:-)
Dave

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Re: (313) Ben Sims kicks ass???

2000-03-16 Thread bart wolff

Or Dave Clarke


You mean d.d.d.d.d.d.d.d.d.d.d.d.dave clark :)


B - Out




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RE: (313) Ben Sims kicks ass???

2000-03-10 Thread Batory, Jason
>Fuck art, let's dance.
>Fuck dance, let's art.
>
>Take your pick, or have both (my preference).

It's fascinating that this discussion is taking place just as Jeff Mills'
gig here in Perth has been confirmed for April to take place in the State
Art Gallery!

So yeah Bill, we'll have both, literally  ;-)

Respect
JasonB
np: Curtis Mayfield - Give Me Your Love


RE: (313) Ben Sims kicks ass???

2000-03-09 Thread Renegade Rhythms
I would say we should push the boundaries as far as the boundaries
will go


>Maybe Jeff
>>Mills used to be good but I feel he's surpassed by the
>>likes of Claude Young. Jeff's too busy messing about
>>making so called experimental tunes when he should be
>>knocking dancefloor tunes together. How far must we
>>keep 'pushing the boundaries'?
>

>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

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Re: (313) Ben Sims kicks ass???

2000-03-09 Thread William VanLoo
> And another thing - once you're famous, does that mean you don't have to
> create danceable music anymore?

It means you don't have to create danceable music if you don't want
to.

Witness Richie Hawtin - the Concept series and "Consumed",
specifically. After years and years of being successful making people
dance, he decided he wanted to try something different, and did so. 

Would have have been as successful in getting those records heard if
he hadn't spent years making dance music? No. Was it his right as an
artist to do those records? Of course.

Carl Craig is another great example - after years of making *some*
danceable stuff (Paperclip People, 69, etc), he decided to try
something different, and did Innerzone Orchestra. Would that record
have been as successful if Carl hadn't already been established? No.
Would it still have been great music for an admittedly different
audience? Yes.

We don't own the artists whose work we enjoy; they have no
responsibilities to us. It's "consumer beware". If "party kids" were
dissapointed when they saw Carl perform as Paperclip People, perhaps
they should have understood that he's not a one-dimensional guy before
purchasing their ticket. A listen to his catalog besides just "Throw"
or "The Floor" would have established that.

I'm not trying to flame or preach, by the way, and I apologize if I
come across that way. I just get irritated by the overwhelmingly
closed mindset of so many in the "dance music" scene.

Fuck art, let's dance.
Fuck dance, let's art.

Take your pick, or have both (my preference).

Bill / dj marathon
-- 
AppNet MidWest Interactive [formerly Sigma6] / http://www.appnet.com

now available:http://techno.ca/cognition/show598.htm
always on:http://www.chromedecay.org


Re: (313) Ben Sims kicks ass???

2000-03-09 Thread AeOtaku
In a message dated 3/9/00 2:40:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< Saying Detroit is finished with techno makes 
 no sense to me. SORRY I asked you to elaborate...it seems like a pretty big 
 generalization and I think Jaguar is a great release for Rolando with many 
 more to come from the city of Detroit by people like Dan Bell, Ritchie 
 Hawtin, Anthony Shakir, The Planet-E crew, the Transmat Crew, Wild 
 Planet...the list goes on and they have all been producing good music.  >>

I think what Alan is getting at is that the
Detroit techno scene has stagnated, nobody
is innovating anymore and there hasn't been 
a release in the past five years that stands up
that well to the classic stuff done a long time ago,
and also that most of the pre-eminent Detroit
producers and musicians have moved past the
early pure techno sound to a more hybridized
thing (see Innerzone Orchestra, Model 500, etc.)
You are right in your assertion that people are
still making old school techno music in Detroit, but I think
Alan is equally right in his that it is just more of the
same. And compare current Transmat
releases to old ones, compare Wild Planet, Shake,
Hawtin, any modern Octave One or 430 West, etc.
to Strings of Life, Night Drive, I Believe, Neurotic 
Behavior, any Red Planet or Galaxy 2 Galaxy,
Minimal Nation, Just Another Chance, etc. It's not
that people aren't making good music these days
but it seems the music hasn't advanced like it did back
when. I don't want to slight current producers, but
I suppose I am. Also I would venture a guess that Alan
notices the difference in quality and innovation much
more than the rest of us, who were not fortunate enough
to be intimately involved in the early days of the
Detroit electronic revolution. I can only comment based on
the records I hear, but people like Alan can comment based
on the general vibe of the city and the musicians as well. 

Matt


Re: (313) Ben Sims kicks ass???

2000-03-09 Thread Minimaltek
In a message dated 3/9/00 8:35:16 AM Pacific Standard Time, DJT1000 writes:

<< Sean, THANK YOU. Nice to to see somebody's got good common sense. 
Minimaltek, read this; I'm noticing points have to made with you several 
times before they sink in. >>
Maybe I just disagree with you. Saying Detroit is finished with techno makes 
no sense to me. SORRY I asked you to elaborate...it seems like a pretty big 
generalization and I think Jaguar is a great release for Rolando with many 
more to come from the city of Detroit by people like Dan Bell, Ritchie 
Hawtin, Anthony Shakir, The Planet-E crew, the Transmat Crew, Wild 
Planet...the list goes on and they have all been producing good music. 
 Alan, your opinions are your opinions if you just want to throw stuff on 
the list and insult people for asking you to go further with your ideas and 
clarify, be my guest---but interaction and conversation seems like a better 
platform. Unless you can't back your statements up...


Re: (313) Ben Sims kicks ass???

2000-03-09 Thread hans kaufmann
I have to agree.  If you put enough pretty colors on a monster flyer. you
could throw a giant 10,000 head techno only party (as long as you have one
room full of ferngully 303 preset hell and kick drums over pop synth riff
remixes), while trying to do a techno based format for big people clubs has
been an utter pain in the ass.  We lost our space for our club out here for
bullshit reasons and had to cancel a show we had planned with Bone and
T-1000 (our former night is now an esdjco overly typical suck ass disco
house night).  The most unfortunate thing about it all is that no one really
wants to lose the money it cost to fly and house one of our detroit heros
out here to play for 200 kids and lose your ass.  The only draws that'll get
you more than 1000 heads are May and Ritchie go figure.  I've contemplated
going the route of LA and get some corporate sponsors and throw a giant show
with Mills but, the sad and hideous state of affairs would be that no one
would show up unless I booked Dickweed and Terry Mullan (or other $4000+
Rave circuit players) to get anyone to show up.  It sucks that the only way
to hear the music you love is to be the jackass who loses his rent money. 
Fuck it I've moving to Australia.  


On Wed, 8 Mar 2000 21:04:35 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



>  <  techno, although at the same time I do hope that techno DJs continue to 
>  infiltrate the rave scene and bring their own sounds to those who will 
>  listen--which is exactly why I play parties.>>
>  
>  The rave scene is what's keeping techno alive in the US, strangely
enough. I 
>  hardly ever get booked at clubs. All the clubs want to hear is commercial

>  Oakenfold bullshit or Eiffel 65 eurotrash pop (aside from Motor and
Science 
>  of course *wink*). The funny thing about these candy kids is that they
*say* 
>  they don't like techno until you light their asses up and rock some shit,

>  then they're all over you..."what kind of music is that ???" Then you
leave 
>  the room and they're right back on that happy hardcore cartoon
shit...weird. 
>  
>  Just my 02.
>  
>  a. 





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Re: (313) Ben Sims kicks ass???

2000-03-09 Thread Sean Creen


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> In a message dated 3/8/00 6:06:00 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> writes:
>
> << Detroit is completely finished making good techno aside from "Jaguar".
>   >>
> Would you care to explain?? Techno in detroit seems as alive as ever and by
> no means finished..

It very much depends what you mean by "techno". I agree with Alan, most good
techno is coming from elsewhere these days. I find myself playing more and more
European stuff out, which was definitely never the case before.
Having said that, there are still great records coming out of Detroit; its just
that aside from "Jaguar" they're not "Techno" as such. KDJ, TP, etc are all
still putting out great house records, there's some great electro, or high tech
funk or whatever coming from UR and the Planet E output is all superb, but
increasingly less dancefloor based.
So, to throw it back, what good "techno" records have come out of Detroit in
the last 12 months aside from Jaguar?

Sean.




Re: (313) Ben Sims kicks ass???

2000-03-09 Thread Dave Clark
Hello.

On 8 Mar 00, at 21:04, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> now. Detroit is completely finished making good techno aside from
> "Jaguar". 

???

What's with this blanket statement?

Do you really believe this?

Aren't you from Detroit, anyway?

I immensely respect your work and the work of artists from 
elsewhere than detroit, but... this comment blows my mind! Even if 
this -is- your opinion (something I really find hard to believe), a lot 
of people on this list don't think so and that's why we're all here 
right?

Dave

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Re: (313) Ben Sims kicks ass???

2000-03-09 Thread Minimaltek
In a message dated 3/8/00 6:06:00 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

<< Detroit is completely finished making good techno aside from "Jaguar". 
  >>
Would you care to explain?? Techno in detroit seems as alive as ever and by 
no means finished.. 


Re: (313) Ben Sims kicks ass???

2000-03-09 Thread g

I like the
supercompressed European house/techno thing that's happening right now.


hell yes.


Re: (313) Ben Sims kicks ass???

2000-03-09 Thread DJT1000
<>

Oliver Ho, Christian Smith, G-Flame, Joel Mull (his b-sides), Marco Carola, 
Chris McCormack, The new Hardgroove double-pack, etc. I like the 
supercompressed European house/techno thing that's happening right now. 
Detroit is completely finished making good techno aside from "Jaguar". 

<>

The rave scene is what's keeping techno alive in the US, strangely enough. I 
hardly ever get booked at clubs. All the clubs want to hear is commercial 
Oakenfold bullshit or Eiffel 65 eurotrash pop (aside from Motor and Science 
of course *wink*). The funny thing about these candy kids is that they *say* 
they don't like techno until you light their asses up and rock some shit, 
then they're all over you..."what kind of music is that ???" Then you leave 
the room and they're right back on that happy hardcore cartoon shit...weird. 

Just my 02.

a. 


Re: (313) Ben Sims kicks ass???

2000-03-09 Thread Cyborg K
Before I get going, I'd like to ask for any recommendations on the best 
tribal techno records/producers out there right now, things that are deep, 
dark, and danceable...  Also, any heads out there in the Lansing or Mt 
Pleasant area???  If so email me privately, I'm unfortunately stuck around 
here, at least during the week, for the next couple of months.  Finally, a 
shameless promo, anyone who would like to hear mixes of my live PA on the 
web (with all live keyboard playing), I've got different mixes on two sites:

http://www.mmmsound.com/CyborgK
http://www.mp3.com/CyborgK

Now, in response to Shane's post, I'd like to say a couple of things:

1.  If the "partykids" weren't into Carl's set, it's a real shame, but 
basically as far as I'm concerned it really reflects on their own immaturity 
and prejudices.  I saw that set from on stage and I consider myself very 
lucky to have witnessed that performance up close.  It was BEAUTIFUL music, 
if the kids can't understand that, does that mean that artists should create 
music that is less beautiful, less spiritual, easier to digest, so as not to 
lose contact with the partykids?  I don't think that would improve the 
situation for anybody!


2.  I don't think that the "Rave Scene" is necessarily a great place for 
techno, although at the same time I do hope that techno DJs continue to 
infiltrate the rave scene and bring their own sounds to those who will 
listen--which is exactly why I play parties.  There is definitely some 
great, danceable techno, but techno has had other sides to it than just the 
dance side, since the beginning.  Even sticking with dance music, there is a 
tradition of parties (private loft parties and such) that aren't necessarily 
raves, just think about the origins of house and techno in Chicago and 
Detroit.  Techno wasn't created to be "rave" music, it wasn't created for 
e-babies who think that happy hardcore is the best and get their vibe 
spoiled by techno cus it's too dark for them.  I love Detroit techno cus 
it's dark, nasty, sexy, mean, and at the same time has a spiritual, mystical 
quality; it's a vision of being reborn in the midst of decay.  You drive 
through downtown Detroit at night with some good techno going, and you can 
feel this.  It's heaven and hell at the same time, it's all the bs of real 
life and the ghetto, but maybe something that transcends all this bs at the 
same time.  Out of the ashes we will rise, we will rise again.


----Original Message Follows
From: "Shane from PLURkids" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: (313) Ben Sims kicks ass???
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 10:23:17 PST

When Carl Craig performed Paperclip People live for me in December, there
were WAY too few people who were into it - and the Paperclip People material
is generally much more digestible to the average partykid than much of the
music we're talking about here.

Just looking for my own education,


Shane
PLURkids Productions
Info 734.913.9672
www.plurkids.com
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Live PA mixes available at:
http://www.mmmsound.com/CyborgK
http://www.mp3.com/CyborgK

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Re: Re: (313) Ben Sims kicks ass???

2000-03-08 Thread stephen
Joseph Ross Lynn IV wrote:
>This is about art.  Not stardom.
>Jeff Mills is an artist.
>his vision is his vision, and the reason he is so well known and
respected is
>because his vision resonates so strongly with so many of us.  I think
he is
>trying to be true to himself, not get his face on MTV.

I see your point but I also see dj mixing as a sport.
Jeff Mills is like the Michael Jorden of techno.

Anyone think about putting a techno dj competition together so we can
see who's the undisputed heavyweight champion of the world?
Just for fun of course.
I'm sure people like Dave Clarke, Ben Sims and T1000 could put up a good
challenge.

stephen.



Re: (313) Ben Sims kicks ass???

2000-03-08 Thread g

Maybe Jeff

Mills used to be good but I feel he's surpassed by the
likes of Claude Young. Jeff's too busy messing about
making so called experimental tunes when he should be
knocking dancefloor tunes together. How far must we
keep 'pushing the boundaries'?


Are you on crack?


...i posted a nice thoughtful little piece on this earlier.  now i 
realize i could have just said the above. ;PP


Re: (313) Ben Sims kicks ass???

2000-03-08 Thread Dissonance Electronic


Maybe Jeff

Mills used to be good but I feel he's surpassed by the
likes of Claude Young. Jeff's too busy messing about
making so called experimental tunes when he should be
knocking dancefloor tunes together. How far must we
keep 'pushing the boundaries'?


Are you on crack?
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Re: (313) Ben Sims kicks ass???

2000-03-08 Thread Otto Koppius
Joseph Ross Lynn IV wrote:
> 
> Dance music isn't important unless its pushing boundaries.

Dance music isn't important unless it makes people dance.

Otto


Re: (313) Ben Sims kicks ass???

2000-03-08 Thread Shane from PLURkids
On Wed, 8 Mar 2000 07:44:23 -0800 (PST), Nick Walsh 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



I think a lot of this experimental stuff
is a load of parp. Few 'experimental' tunes actually
push the boundaries forward. However, a lot of big
names are getting respect for stuff that I could throw
together... (I'm not so good by the way...:). How do
they get away with that? Does that mean that once
you're famous you don't have to try anymore?



   And another thing - once you're famous, does that mean you don't have to 
create danceable music anymore? The groove matters, and if these producer/dj 
names that WE all respect and love are not in some way also endeared to the 
younger generation, how can we expect them not to lose their way? Granted, 
the "scene" isn't what it used to be, but then we all knew that would occur 
- and since mainstream acceptance in the states seems to be some way off 
yet, shouldn't these artists continue to stay in touch with underground/rave 
culture? (Uh oh, now I've said it...)


 When Carl Craig performed Paperclip People live for me in December, there 
were WAY too few people who were into it - and the Paperclip People material 
is generally much more digestible to the average partykid than much of the 
music we're talking about here.


Just looking for my own education,


Shane
PLURkids Productions
Info 734.913.9672
www.plurkids.com
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Re: (313) Ben Sims kicks ass???

2000-03-08 Thread Nick Walsh
As I've said twice already, I'm not having a go at
Jeff's production or any forward thinking producers.
Any TRUE forward thinking producers that is. I'm sure
everyone realises how techno has previously taken flak
because it's apparently easy to produce and that any
joe can have a go.

I'm not against progression and I'm not against Mills.
I don't think he's as good as ppl give him credit for
though.  This is the molehill that this volcanic
mountain sprang from. Who the heck is Ben Sims
anyway??? I forget now;)

I agree with you in that the future of music relies on
innovation and breaking boundaries. Though, I think
that there is a point where music is no longer music
and it just becomes an racket (damn, I sound like my
dad!!!). It must be a progressive 'breaking of
boundaries' with constant references to the past and
present otherwise it is not recognised as 'music'. I'm
sure music in 1000 years will sound a lot different
than music today (if it still exists), but you can't
just jump there now. It cannot be created in such a
way. 

Dj Pacific:)

--- Tom Churchill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Jeff Mills gets a lot of respect for his
> production
> > though I don't think it's all that great. Maybe
> Jeff
> > Mills used to be good but I feel he's surpassed by
> the
> > likes of Claude Young. Jeff's too busy messing
> about
> > making so called experimental tunes when he should
> be
> > knocking dancefloor tunes together. How far must
> we
> > keep 'pushing the boundaries'?
> 
> If every composer thought like that, there would be
> no progression in
> music at all. Pushing the boundaries is essential,
> and these 'so
> called experimental tunes' are vital to stop a scene
> stagnating. Sure,
> experimenting just for the sake of being
> unconventional doesn't always
> result in good music, but breaking the rules is how
> every important
> musical genre was created.
> 
> And why on earth 'should' Jeff be 'knocking
> dancefloor tunes
> together'? There's a million other producers out
> there that keep the
> market flooded with dancefloor techno (Ben Sims
> included). It seems
> like you're dissing Mills for failing to fit in to
> the scene which has
> sprung up as a result of people taking some of the
> basic ideas of some
> of his past production and copying them. They, and
> you, may have
> missed the point. People are preoccupied with
> emulating the specific
> sound of the music, instead of being inspired by the
> attitude/state of
> mind that created it...
> 
> :::: tom churchill :
> : headspace recordings :
> : http://www.headspacerecordings.co.uk :
> ::: e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] :::
> ::: t: 07976 898514 
> 
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Re: (313) Ben Sims kicks ass???

2000-03-08 Thread Tom Churchill
> Jeff Mills gets a lot of respect for his production
> though I don't think it's all that great. Maybe Jeff
> Mills used to be good but I feel he's surpassed by the
> likes of Claude Young. Jeff's too busy messing about
> making so called experimental tunes when he should be
> knocking dancefloor tunes together. How far must we
> keep 'pushing the boundaries'?

If every composer thought like that, there would be no progression in
music at all. Pushing the boundaries is essential, and these 'so
called experimental tunes' are vital to stop a scene stagnating. Sure,
experimenting just for the sake of being unconventional doesn't always
result in good music, but breaking the rules is how every important
musical genre was created.

And why on earth 'should' Jeff be 'knocking dancefloor tunes
together'? There's a million other producers out there that keep the
market flooded with dancefloor techno (Ben Sims included). It seems
like you're dissing Mills for failing to fit in to the scene which has
sprung up as a result of people taking some of the basic ideas of some
of his past production and copying them. They, and you, may have
missed the point. People are preoccupied with emulating the specific
sound of the music, instead of being inspired by the attitude/state of
mind that created it...

:::: tom churchill :
: headspace recordings :
: http://www.headspacerecordings.co.uk :
::: e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] :::
::: t: 07976 898514 


Re: (313) Ben Sims kicks ass???

2000-03-08 Thread DJT1000

In a message dated 3/8/00 10:35:19 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< >Or Dave Clarke or Claude Young.
>
>a.
>(who doesn't have a hip-hop past)


But can work out the doubles like a motherf•cker!!
 >>

Awww, shucks, anybody can do that. It's so easy I don't even do it anymore.

=)

a.
(www.puresonikrecords.net)


RE: (313) Ben Sims kicks ass???

2000-03-08 Thread johno
I believe Jeff Mills is a true visionary. This man is a philosopher. Try
reading some in-depth interviews with the man to (try to) understand what is
going on in his head. About two years ago I read a super-long,
super-in-depht interview with Jeff in Magic Feet. It only made me respect
the man even more. Everybody has his/her feelings about music. Wouldn't it
just suck really hard if everybody liked the same?

John

-Original Message-
From: Joseph Ross Lynn IV [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 4:56 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: (313) Ben Sims kicks ass???



This is about art.  Not stardom.
Jeff Mills is an artist.
his vision is his vision, and the reason he is so well known and respected
is
because his vision resonates so strongly with so many of us.  I think he is
trying to be true to himself, not get his face on MTV.
Art is about a new perspective.  Art that serves its function shows us a way
of
looking at things that we hadn't known before, or sometimes it defines what
could previously only be hinted at.
It is still his vision, but maybe it jusn't mesh as well with yours.  Or
maybe
(gasp!) you might have to put a little effort and attention into his art in
order to try to understand.

J.



>
> I wasn't having a go at Mills. His skill and ingenuity
> has had a huge influence on techno and dance music as
> a whole. What I'm saying is, plenty of ppl have access
> to production equipment these days and the dj/producer
> is becoming more and more common. Anyone, can be
> innovative, but the truely innovative producers today
> aren't the ppl that are getting the respect. Mills has
> been a lot better in the past.
>
> Concerning pushing the boundaries forward, I s'pose
> music is about the feel, not necessarily technical
> skill. It's more about the ingenuity of it's creator.
> A lot of reviewers give tunes respect e.g. because
> they've used a full orchestra instead of sampled
> strings and stuff... which is good, but it doesn't
> always work. I think a lot of this experimental stuff
> is a load of parp. Few 'experimental' tunes actually
> push the boundaries forward. However, a lot of big
> names are getting respect for stuff that I could throw
> together... (I'm not so good by the way...:). How do
> they get away with that? Does that mean that once
> you're famous you don't have to try anymore?
>
> Dj Pacific:)
> __
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
> http://im.yahoo.com
>


--
Knecht



Re: (313) Ben Sims kicks ass???

2000-03-08 Thread Joseph Ross Lynn IV

This is about art.  Not stardom.
Jeff Mills is an artist.
his vision is his vision, and the reason he is so well known and respected is
because his vision resonates so strongly with so many of us.  I think he is
trying to be true to himself, not get his face on MTV.
Art is about a new perspective.  Art that serves its function shows us a way of
looking at things that we hadn't known before, or sometimes it defines what
could previously only be hinted at.
It is still his vision, but maybe it jusn't mesh as well with yours.  Or maybe
(gasp!) you might have to put a little effort and attention into his art in
order to try to understand.

J.



>
> I wasn't having a go at Mills. His skill and ingenuity
> has had a huge influence on techno and dance music as
> a whole. What I'm saying is, plenty of ppl have access
> to production equipment these days and the dj/producer
> is becoming more and more common. Anyone, can be
> innovative, but the truely innovative producers today
> aren't the ppl that are getting the respect. Mills has
> been a lot better in the past.
>
> Concerning pushing the boundaries forward, I s'pose
> music is about the feel, not necessarily technical
> skill. It's more about the ingenuity of it's creator.
> A lot of reviewers give tunes respect e.g. because
> they've used a full orchestra instead of sampled
> strings and stuff... which is good, but it doesn't
> always work. I think a lot of this experimental stuff
> is a load of parp. Few 'experimental' tunes actually
> push the boundaries forward. However, a lot of big
> names are getting respect for stuff that I could throw
> together... (I'm not so good by the way...:). How do
> they get away with that? Does that mean that once
> you're famous you don't have to try anymore?
>
> Dj Pacific:)
> __
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
> http://im.yahoo.com
>


--
Knecht




Re: (313) Ben Sims kicks ass???

2000-03-08 Thread Nick Walsh
--- Joseph Ross Lynn IV <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> >
> > > Jeff's too busy messing about
> > > making so called experimental tunes when he
> should be
> > > knocking dancefloor tunes together. How far must
> we
> > > keep 'pushing the boundaries'?
> 
> Dance music isn't important unless its pushing
> boundaries.
> 
> J.
> 
> >
> > 'Til they fall down?
> >
> > Where do you get off telling Jeff Mills what he
> "should" be doing?
> >
> > Bill / dj marathon
> > --
> > AppNet MidWest Interactive [formerly Sigma6] /
> http://www.appnet.com
> >
> > now available:   
> http://techno.ca/cognition/show598.htm
> > always on:http://www.chromedecay.org
> >
> 
> 
> --
> Knecht

I wasn't having a go at Mills. His skill and ingenuity
has had a huge influence on techno and dance music as
a whole. What I'm saying is, plenty of ppl have access
to production equipment these days and the dj/producer
is becoming more and more common. Anyone, can be
innovative, but the truely innovative producers today
aren't the ppl that are getting the respect. Mills has
been a lot better in the past. 

Concerning pushing the boundaries forward, I s'pose
music is about the feel, not necessarily technical
skill. It's more about the ingenuity of it's creator.
A lot of reviewers give tunes respect e.g. because
they've used a full orchestra instead of sampled
strings and stuff... which is good, but it doesn't
always work. I think a lot of this experimental stuff
is a load of parp. Few 'experimental' tunes actually
push the boundaries forward. However, a lot of big
names are getting respect for stuff that I could throw
together... (I'm not so good by the way...:). How do
they get away with that? Does that mean that once
you're famous you don't have to try anymore? 

Dj Pacific:)
__
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Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
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Re: (313) Ben Sims kicks ass???

2000-03-08 Thread T Linder



Or Dave Clarke or Claude Young.

a.
(who doesn't have a hip-hop past)



But can work out the doubles like a motherf•cker!!




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Re: (313) Ben Sims kicks ass???

2000-03-08 Thread Joseph Ross Lynn IV
>
> > Jeff's too busy messing about
> > making so called experimental tunes when he should be
> > knocking dancefloor tunes together. How far must we
> > keep 'pushing the boundaries'?

Dance music isn't important unless its pushing boundaries.

J.

>
> 'Til they fall down?
>
> Where do you get off telling Jeff Mills what he "should" be doing?
>
> Bill / dj marathon
> --
> AppNet MidWest Interactive [formerly Sigma6] / http://www.appnet.com
>
> now available:http://techno.ca/cognition/show598.htm
> always on:http://www.chromedecay.org
>


--
Knecht




Re: (313) Ben Sims kicks ass???

2000-03-08 Thread William VanLoo
> Jeff's too busy messing about
> making so called experimental tunes when he should be
> knocking dancefloor tunes together. How far must we
> keep 'pushing the boundaries'?

'Til they fall down?

Where do you get off telling Jeff Mills what he "should" be doing?

Bill / dj marathon
-- 
AppNet MidWest Interactive [formerly Sigma6] / http://www.appnet.com

now available:http://techno.ca/cognition/show598.htm
always on:http://www.chromedecay.org


Re: (313) Ben Sims kicks ass???

2000-03-08 Thread Nick Walsh


--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 3/8/00 8:16:23 AM,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> 
> << 
> >Clearly his hiphop past is reflected in his
> >mixing. I saw him do stuff I've 
> never seen a dj >do before. 
> 
> You've obviously never heard of/seen Terrence Parker
> or Jeff Mills then!
>  >>
> 
> Or Dave Clarke or Claude Young.
> 
> a.
> (who doesn't have a hip-hop past)

I hear ya, but Ben Sims is a good producer too. Being
a good dj AND a good producer is kinda rare but
increasingly important if you want to be recognised.
Jeff Mills gets a lot of respect for his production
though I don't think it's all that great. Maybe Jeff
Mills used to be good but I feel he's surpassed by the
likes of Claude Young. Jeff's too busy messing about
making so called experimental tunes when he should be
knocking dancefloor tunes together. How far must we
keep 'pushing the boundaries'? 

Dj Pacific:) 
__
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Re: (313) Ben Sims kicks ass???

2000-03-08 Thread DJT1000

In a message dated 3/8/00 8:16:23 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< 
>Clearly his hiphop past is reflected in his >mixing. I saw him do stuff I've 
never seen a dj >do before. 

You've obviously never heard of/seen Terrence Parker or Jeff Mills then!
 >>

Or Dave Clarke or Claude Young.

a.
(who doesn't have a hip-hop past)


RE: (313) Ben Sims kicks ass (???) Never heard of????

2000-03-08 Thread johno
Answer for workz


'Scuze me?' Never seen Terrence Parker or Jeff Mills then? Never heard of
them? 
I have seen Jeff Mills on numerous occasions starting in about 1993. He is
still one of my heroes and yes he's great behind the decks and yet I saw Ben
Sims do some stuff I've never seen Jeff do before. That's not a negative
thing. I would really suck if every dj did the same tricks. Maybe you are
that fanatical about Jeff and Terrence that you can't stand the fact that
there's a new league of dj's coming up. How many times have you seen Ben
Sims mix then? I hope we are not going the way of the cleaning products; I
hate comparative tests between dj's. Everybody is entitled to have his/her
own opinion and everybody has his/her heroes. People like Jeff Mills are
considered gods by some, but they are as  human as you and I and they also
make mistakes. It's their right to do so!

John


P.S. I once interviewed Jeff Mills (1996), but I didn't know it was him.
After all I have never heard of him... ;)

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 2:14 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: (313) Ben Sims kicks ass???



>Clearly his hiphop past is reflected in his >mixing. I saw him do stuff
I've never seen a dj >do before. 

You've obviously never heard of/seen Terrence Parker or Jeff Mills then!




talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at
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Re: (313) Ben Sims kicks ass???

2000-03-08 Thread workz_uk

>Clearly his hiphop past is reflected in his >mixing. I saw him do stuff I've 
>never seen a dj >do before. 

You've obviously never heard of/seen Terrence Parker or Jeff Mills then!




talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at 
http://www.talk21.com



Re: (313) Ben Sims kicks ass!

2000-03-06 Thread Nick Craddock


Amen to that! Ben's an outstanding DJ - a real breath of fresh air. I saw 
him play a few months back and it was very apparent to me that I'd never 
seen anyone with a style like his. As John points out, he's very hip-hop 
influenced in the mix, but he's pretty subtle with it too - definitely one 
to watch and whilst I agree with John about the 'tracky' techno 
comedown, Sims certainly knows what buttons to push on the dancefloor with 
his productions.



Nick


Original Message Follows
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: (313) Ben Sims kicks ass!
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 18:19:42 +0100


I saw Ben Sims play this Friday at the Silo in Belgium. Keep your eye on
this guy. He is really brilliant behind the decks. Clearly his hiphop past
is reflected in his mixing. I saw him do stuff I've never seen a dj do
before. Really cool. Although I'm coming down  a bit from this hard looped
techno this was still exciting. His productions are more than everage as
well, to say the least of it. Oh, btw, he's working on a new album right
now. It should be released through Tresor later this year.


John

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