RE: (313) 100 BEST DJ IN THE WORLD (Mills)
what if it was DJ T-1000 commanding everyone to dance...as he usually does. I think I would obey because he is a bad mother f*ucker! -Original Message- From: T.J.Johnson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 6:01 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) 100 BEST DJ IN THE WORLD (Mills) Amen Jeff! It always bugs the hell out of me when the self-elected party revolutionary leader stands up at the show and starts yelling at people to start dancing. If he/she needs other people to dance for them to fell comfortable with dancing themselves, maybe they should get drunk or something. Bite me is what I usually end up thinking... On Mon, 04 Nov 2002, Mxyzptlk wrote: While I respect your opinion and understand that your comments are made in the context of this discussion (and also that dance music is ostensibly made for dancing), I have to say that I find the notion that someone gets to say how *I* need to react to something else in the sense that I can be marginalized when I don't is reductionistic and at least as problematic as a person who doesn't respond in the way dictated by whomever. I don't dance and I doubt I ever will; perhaps it's childhood trauma or an ill formed sense of self - whatever. That doesn't mean I don't enjoy the music nor does it mean I have to be saddled with restructuring a performative context or bumming out a DJ. It would seem like the fact that I haven't left the venue should say something. In an age where all kinds of criticism (literary, etc.) has freed art from static notions tied with the artist, I find it interesting that the monolithic notion of must-dancing still rules. I do understand the need for it and I understand how it creates a necessary symbiosis - but why does *everyone* need to be dancing in order for them to enjoy and appreciate something? We aren't all dancers, we aren't all as comfortable with dancing as each other. As a qualifier, I am not saying that any behavior or reaction to art is equally appropriate, nor am I saying there is no tie between art and artist. I just find it a bit tyrannical and quixotic to dictate behavior to a set. Again, my comments are not directed to this particular post (as I can see the connection you are making vis a vis the trend), but rather towards the notion that seems to underlie it : if I don't dance, I am unappreciative and some kind of pariah. If it's really about the music OR the mix, then I should be left to appreciate it in a way which is genuine to myself and doesn't shipwreck someone else's enjoyment. .02. jeff At 08:09 AM 11/4/2002, Toby Frith wrote: This is somewhat of a double-edged sword I think. In one respect, people go to see a DJ like Mills so they can dance. In the other respect, they go to watch his craft, which then takes the DJ out of his normal context and into that of an artist, because you are viewing him/her rather than interacting. (another argument which I'm not going to pontificate on here) So you get one half of the audience dancing and the other just watching. This has been, IMHO, the downfall of techno turntablism and the like in recent years. Too much watching, not enough dancing. I went to see Mills in Zurich a year ago and there was far too much of the latter going on. You could see him actually looking rather annoyed as one absolute classic after another (Final Frontier, Magnese) was being dropped only to see a leaden-footed and mute reaction from the crowd. How must a DJ feel when they are faced by banks of motionless people looking at them spin some records? TJJ ~in a perfect world, nothing is perfect~ PeoplePC: It's for people. And it's just smart. http://www.peoplepc.com
Re: (313) 100 BEST DJ IN THE WORLD (Mills)
what if it was DJ T-1000 commanding everyone to dance...as he usually
does.
I think I would obey because he is a bad mother f*ucker!
Third Reich N' Roll?
.o0O}seeklektek{O0o.
Re: (313) 100 BEST DJ IN THE WORLD (Mills)
Speaking of which g. Original Message Subject: DJ T-1000 rocks Record Time Ferndale Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 08:47:31 EST From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: undisclosed-recipients:; The Last DJ On Earth returns to Record Time Ferndale ! November 8th 2002 7-9 pm 262 W. Nine Mile Rd one block west of Woodward Hor d'oeuvres by La Soups, so come and eat to the beat All Pure Sonik and Generator products are specially-priced www.recordtime.com www.puresonikrecords.net www.generatormusic.com FC2 Richards wrote: what if it was DJ T-1000 commanding everyone to dance...as he usually does. I think I would obey because he is a bad mother f*ucker! -Original Message- From: T.J.Johnson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 6:01 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) 100 BEST DJ IN THE WORLD (Mills) Amen Jeff! It always bugs the hell out of me when the self-elected party revolutionary leader stands up at the show and starts yelling at people to start dancing. If he/she needs other people to dance for them to fell comfortable with dancing themselves, maybe they should get drunk or something. Bite me is what I usually end up thinking... On Mon, 04 Nov 2002, Mxyzptlk wrote: While I respect your opinion and understand that your comments are made in the context of this discussion (and also that dance music is ostensibly made for dancing), I have to say that I find the notion that someone gets to say how *I* need to react to something else in the sense that I can be marginalized when I don't is reductionistic and at least as problematic as a person who doesn't respond in the way dictated by whomever. I don't dance and I doubt I ever will; perhaps it's childhood trauma or an ill formed sense of self - whatever. That doesn't mean I don't enjoy the music nor does it mean I have to be saddled with restructuring a performative context or bumming out a DJ. It would seem like the fact that I haven't left the venue should say something. In an age where all kinds of criticism (literary, etc.) has freed art from static notions tied with the artist, I find it interesting that the monolithic notion of must-dancing still rules. I do understand the need for it and I understand how it creates a necessary symbiosis - but why does *everyone* need to be dancing in order for them to enjoy and appreciate something? We aren't all dancers, we aren't all as comfortable with dancing as each other. As a qualifier, I am not saying that any behavior or reaction to art is equally appropriate, nor am I saying there is no tie between art and artist. I just find it a bit tyrannical and quixotic to dictate behavior to a set. Again, my comments are not directed to this particular post (as I can see the connection you are making vis a vis the trend), but rather towards the notion that seems to underlie it : if I don't dance, I am unappreciative and some kind of pariah. If it's really about the music OR the mix, then I should be left to appreciate it in a way which is genuine to myself and doesn't shipwreck someone else's enjoyment. .02. jeff At 08:09 AM 11/4/2002, Toby Frith wrote: This is somewhat of a double-edged sword I think. In one respect, people go to see a DJ like Mills so they can dance. In the other respect, they go to watch his craft, which then takes the DJ out of his normal context and into that of an artist, because you are viewing him/her rather than interacting. (another argument which I'm not going to pontificate on here) So you get one half of the audience dancing and the other just watching. This has been, IMHO, the downfall of techno turntablism and the like in recent years. Too much watching, not enough dancing. I went to see Mills in Zurich a year ago and there was far too much of the latter going on. You could see him actually looking rather annoyed as one absolute classic after another (Final Frontier, Magnese) was being dropped only to see a leaden-footed and mute reaction from the crowd. How must a DJ feel when they are faced by banks of motionless people looking at them spin some records? TJJ ~in a perfect world, nothing is perfect~ PeoplePC: It's for people. And it's just smart. http://www.peoplepc.com
RE: (313) 100 BEST DJ IN THE WORLD (Mills)
Actually, Jeff doesn't claim to be a perfectionist, he believes in taking a risk, his belief being: sometimes a move will come off, sometimes it won't, but it's about the excitement level. He has elaborated on this in interviews. Me, I prefer that style to the seamless mixing of progressive house stalwarts, a philosophy that is increasingly now paramount in deep house circles (UK especially), where DJs are obsessed with mixing according to keys and beats and the mix supersedes the records sure it's seamless and perfect but it's very mono. It's not so much deep house as sleep house. All this reminds me of a recent interview Chuck D gave here when he lamented that today's pop producers and recording artists leave out the mistakes in a record when mistakes make a record real and give it soul. He leaves them in. So does Mills. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: (313) 100 BEST DJ IN THE WORLD (Mills) Date: 02/11/2002 21:44:50 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: 313@hyperreal.org, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Pryor, Ryan N) live at the liquid room is laden with errors. it is a classic set. but it has at least 5 big mistakes. for a recorded mix that is a lot. mills is a sloppy dj. but he can get away with it because of his record selection. He can get away with it because he's so damn quick. When a DJ works the decks mixer as much and as quickly as Mills does then there's bound to be some mistakes.
Re: (313) 100 BEST DJ IN THE WORLD (Mills)
This is somewhat of a double-edged sword I think. In one respect, people go to see a DJ like Mills so they can dance. In the other respect, they go to watch his craft, which then takes the DJ out of his normal context and into that of an artist, because you are viewing him/her rather than interacting. (another argument which I'm not going to pontificate on here) So you get one half of the audience dancing and the other just watching. This has been, IMHO, the downfall of techno turntablism and the like in recent years. Too much watching, not enough dancing. I went to see Mills in Zurich a year ago and there was far too much of the latter going on. You could see him actually looking rather annoyed as one absolute classic after another (Final Frontier, Magnese) was being dropped only to see a leaden-footed and mute reaction from the crowd. How must a DJ feel when they are faced by banks of motionless people looking at them spin some records? - Original Message - From: Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313 Detroit 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 1:46 PM Subject: RE: (313) 100 BEST DJ IN THE WORLD (Mills) Actually, Jeff doesn't claim to be a perfectionist, he believes in taking a risk, his belief being: sometimes a move will come off, sometimes it won't, but it's about the excitement level. He has elaborated on this in interviews. Me, I prefer that style to the seamless mixing of progressive house stalwarts, a philosophy that is increasingly now paramount in deep house circles (UK especially), where DJs are obsessed with mixing according to keys and beats and the mix supersedes the records sure it's seamless and perfect but it's very mono. It's not so much deep house as sleep house. All this reminds me of a recent interview Chuck D gave here when he lamented that today's pop producers and recording artists leave out the mistakes in a record when mistakes make a record real and give it soul. He leaves them in. So does Mills. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: (313) 100 BEST DJ IN THE WORLD (Mills) Date: 02/11/2002 21:44:50 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: 313@hyperreal.org, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Pryor, Ryan N) live at the liquid room is laden with errors. it is a classic set. but it has at least 5 big mistakes. for a recorded mix that is a lot. mills is a sloppy dj. but he can get away with it because of his record selection. He can get away with it because he's so damn quick. When a DJ works the decks mixer as much and as quickly as Mills does then there's bound to be some mistakes.
Re: (313) 100 BEST DJ IN THE WORLD (Mills)
This is true, Toby. But, I must say that if Mills didn't enjoy being watched, he could very well conceal himself like Hawtin does at his plastic parties. So this leads me to personally believe that Mills enjoys the attention of people wtching his skills... Toby Frith wrote: This is somewhat of a double-edged sword I think. In one respect, people go to see a DJ like Mills so they can dance. In the other respect, they go to watch his craft, which then takes the DJ out of his normal context and into that of an artist, because you are viewing him/her rather than interacting. (another argument which I'm not going to pontificate on here) So you get one half of the audience dancing and the other just watching. This has been, IMHO, the downfall of techno turntablism and the like in recent years. Too much watching, not enough dancing. I went to see Mills in Zurich a year ago and there was far too much of the latter going on. You could see him actually looking rather annoyed as one absolute classic after another (Final Frontier, Magnese) was being dropped only to see a leaden-footed and mute reaction from the crowd. How must a DJ feel when they are faced by banks of motionless people looking at them spin some records? - Original Message - From: Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313 Detroit 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 1:46 PM Subject: RE: (313) 100 BEST DJ IN THE WORLD (Mills) Actually, Jeff doesn't claim to be a perfectionist, he believes in taking a risk, his belief being: sometimes a move will come off, sometimes it won't, but it's about the excitement level. He has elaborated on this in interviews. Me, I prefer that style to the seamless mixing of progressive house stalwarts, a philosophy that is increasingly now paramount in deep house circles (UK especially), where DJs are obsessed with mixing according to keys and beats and the mix supersedes the records sure it's seamless and perfect but it's very mono. It's not so much deep house as sleep house. All this reminds me of a recent interview Chuck D gave here when he lamented that today's pop producers and recording artists leave out the mistakes in a record when mistakes make a record real and give it soul. He leaves them in. So does Mills. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: (313) 100 BEST DJ IN THE WORLD (Mills) Date: 02/11/2002 21:44:50 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: 313@hyperreal.org, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Pryor, Ryan N) live at the liquid room is laden with errors. it is a classic set. but it has at least 5 big mistakes. for a recorded mix that is a lot. mills is a sloppy dj. but he can get away with it because of his record selection. He can get away with it because he's so damn quick. When a DJ works the decks mixer as much and as quickly as Mills does then there's bound to be some mistakes. TJJ ~in a perfect world, nothing is perfect~ PeoplePC: It's for people. And it's just smart. http://www.peoplepc.com
Re: (313) 100 BEST DJ IN THE WORLD (Mills)
Because maybe he comes from the era of DJing where it is an interactive performance? The traditional house DJing is like call and response, like in a church. That's how I like it! OK, it's 1.30 am and I am rambling now! Inbox Message From: T.J.Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: (313) 100 BEST DJ IN THE WORLD (Mills) Date: 05/11/2002 1:14:26 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED], 313@hyperreal.org This is true, Toby. But, I must say that if Mills didn't enjoy being watched, he could very well conceal himself like Hawtin does at his plastic parties. So this leads me to personally believe that Mills enjoys the attention of people wtching his skills... Toby Frith wrote:
RE: (313) 100 BEST DJ IN THE WORLD (Mills)
yeah but watching Richie is like watching paint dry, no offence but I have never seen him work it like Mills does. Few have seen him smile as well :) -Original Message- From: T.J.Johnson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 04 November 2002 14:14 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) 100 BEST DJ IN THE WORLD (Mills) This is true, Toby. But, I must say that if Mills didn't enjoy being watched, he could very well conceal himself like Hawtin does at his plastic parties. So this leads me to personally believe that Mills enjoys the attention of people wtching his skills... Toby Frith wrote: This is somewhat of a double-edged sword I think. In one respect, people go to see a DJ like Mills so they can dance. In the other respect, they go to watch his craft, which then takes the DJ out of his normal context and into that of an artist, because you are viewing him/her rather than interacting. (another argument which I'm not going to pontificate on here) So you get one half of the audience dancing and the other just watching. This has been, IMHO, the downfall of techno turntablism and the like in recent years. Too much watching, not enough dancing. I went to see Mills in Zurich a year ago and there was far too much of the latter going on. You could see him actually looking rather annoyed as one absolute classic after another (Final Frontier, Magnese) was being dropped only to see a leaden-footed and mute reaction from the crowd. How must a DJ feel when they are faced by banks of motionless people looking at them spin some records? - Original Message - From: Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313 Detroit 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 1:46 PM Subject: RE: (313) 100 BEST DJ IN THE WORLD (Mills) Actually, Jeff doesn't claim to be a perfectionist, he believes in taking a risk, his belief being: sometimes a move will come off, sometimes it won't, but it's about the excitement level. He has elaborated on this in interviews. Me, I prefer that style to the seamless mixing of progressive house stalwarts, a philosophy that is increasingly now paramount in deep house circles (UK especially), where DJs are obsessed with mixing according to keys and beats and the mix supersedes the records sure it's seamless and perfect but it's very mono. It's not so much deep house as sleep house. All this reminds me of a recent interview Chuck D gave here when he lamented that today's pop producers and recording artists leave out the mistakes in a record when mistakes make a record real and give it soul. He leaves them in. So does Mills. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: (313) 100 BEST DJ IN THE WORLD (Mills) Date: 02/11/2002 21:44:50 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: 313@hyperreal.org, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Pryor, Ryan N) live at the liquid room is laden with errors. it is a classic set. but it has at least 5 big mistakes. for a recorded mix that is a lot. mills is a sloppy dj. but he can get away with it because of his record selection. He can get away with it because he's so damn quick. When a DJ works the decks mixer as much and as quickly as Mills does then there's bound to be some mistakes. TJJ ~in a perfect world, nothing is perfect~ PeoplePC: It's for people. And it's just smart. http://www.peoplepc.com --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.408 / Virus Database: 230 - Release Date: 24/10/02 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.408 / Virus Database: 230 - Release Date: 24/10/02
Re: (313) 100 BEST DJ IN THE WORLD (Mills)
While I respect your opinion and understand that your comments are made in the context of this discussion (and also that dance music is ostensibly made for dancing), I have to say that I find the notion that someone gets to say how *I* need to react to something else in the sense that I can be marginalized when I don't is reductionistic and at least as problematic as a person who doesn't respond in the way dictated by whomever. I don't dance and I doubt I ever will; perhaps it's childhood trauma or an ill formed sense of self - whatever. That doesn't mean I don't enjoy the music nor does it mean I have to be saddled with restructuring a performative context or bumming out a DJ. It would seem like the fact that I haven't left the venue should say something. In an age where all kinds of criticism (literary, etc.) has freed art from static notions tied with the artist, I find it interesting that the monolithic notion of must-dancing still rules. I do understand the need for it and I understand how it creates a necessary symbiosis - but why does *everyone* need to be dancing in order for them to enjoy and appreciate something? We aren't all dancers, we aren't all as comfortable with dancing as each other. As a qualifier, I am not saying that any behavior or reaction to art is equally appropriate, nor am I saying there is no tie between art and artist. I just find it a bit tyrannical and quixotic to dictate behavior to a set. Again, my comments are not directed to this particular post (as I can see the connection you are making vis a vis the trend), but rather towards the notion that seems to underlie it : if I don't dance, I am unappreciative and some kind of pariah. If it's really about the music OR the mix, then I should be left to appreciate it in a way which is genuine to myself and doesn't shipwreck someone else's enjoyment. .02. jeff At 08:09 AM 11/4/2002, Toby Frith wrote: This is somewhat of a double-edged sword I think. In one respect, people go to see a DJ like Mills so they can dance. In the other respect, they go to watch his craft, which then takes the DJ out of his normal context and into that of an artist, because you are viewing him/her rather than interacting. (another argument which I'm not going to pontificate on here) So you get one half of the audience dancing and the other just watching. This has been, IMHO, the downfall of techno turntablism and the like in recent years. Too much watching, not enough dancing. I went to see Mills in Zurich a year ago and there was far too much of the latter going on. You could see him actually looking rather annoyed as one absolute classic after another (Final Frontier, Magnese) was being dropped only to see a leaden-footed and mute reaction from the crowd. How must a DJ feel when they are faced by banks of motionless people looking at them spin some records?
Re: (313) 100 BEST DJ IN THE WORLD (Mills)
Amen Jeff! It always bugs the hell out of me when the self-elected party revolutionary leader stands up at the show and starts yelling at people to start dancing. If he/she needs other people to dance for them to fell comfortable with dancing themselves, maybe they should get drunk or something. Bite me is what I usually end up thinking... On Mon, 04 Nov 2002, Mxyzptlk wrote: While I respect your opinion and understand that your comments are made in the context of this discussion (and also that dance music is ostensibly made for dancing), I have to say that I find the notion that someone gets to say how *I* need to react to something else in the sense that I can be marginalized when I don't is reductionistic and at least as problematic as a person who doesn't respond in the way dictated by whomever. I don't dance and I doubt I ever will; perhaps it's childhood trauma or an ill formed sense of self - whatever. That doesn't mean I don't enjoy the music nor does it mean I have to be saddled with restructuring a performative context or bumming out a DJ. It would seem like the fact that I haven't left the venue should say something. In an age where all kinds of criticism (literary, etc.) has freed art from static notions tied with the artist, I find it interesting that the monolithic notion of must-dancing still rules. I do understand the need for it and I understand how it creates a necessary symbiosis - but why does *everyone* need to be dancing in order for them to enjoy and appreciate something? We aren't all dancers, we aren't all as comfortable with dancing as each other. As a qualifier, I am not saying that any behavior or reaction to art is equally appropriate, nor am I saying there is no tie between art and artist. I just find it a bit tyrannical and quixotic to dictate behavior to a set. Again, my comments are not directed to this particular post (as I can see the connection you are making vis a vis the trend), but rather towards the notion that seems to underlie it : if I don't dance, I am unappreciative and some kind of pariah. If it's really about the music OR the mix, then I should be left to appreciate it in a way which is genuine to myself and doesn't shipwreck someone else's enjoyment. .02. jeff At 08:09 AM 11/4/2002, Toby Frith wrote: This is somewhat of a double-edged sword I think. In one respect, people go to see a DJ like Mills so they can dance. In the other respect, they go to watch his craft, which then takes the DJ out of his normal context and into that of an artist, because you are viewing him/her rather than interacting. (another argument which I'm not going to pontificate on here) So you get one half of the audience dancing and the other just watching. This has been, IMHO, the downfall of techno turntablism and the like in recent years. Too much watching, not enough dancing. I went to see Mills in Zurich a year ago and there was far too much of the latter going on. You could see him actually looking rather annoyed as one absolute classic after another (Final Frontier, Magnese) was being dropped only to see a leaden-footed and mute reaction from the crowd. How must a DJ feel when they are faced by banks of motionless people looking at them spin some records? TJJ ~in a perfect world, nothing is perfect~ PeoplePC: It's for people. And it's just smart. http://www.peoplepc.com
Re: (313) 100 BEST DJ IN THE WORLD (Mills)
Mills (again) played a DJ set at the Royal Festival Hall in London recently as the finale to the showing of his adaptation of the Metropolis soundtrack. Seeing someone DJ at a venue (with seats) was rather bizarre. A large section of the crowd rushed towards the front to dance, whilst the bemused rest watched from their seats. Some people didn't know whether to dance or to remain seated (including me!). It did beg the question though, when transported to a different atmosphere, did it really make any sense? I mean, it's just a guy spinning a number of records. I can't really articulate what I want to say, because it will mean going into that whole artist/DJ argument which I can't be arsed with. - Original Message - From: Mxyzptlk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Toby Frith [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313 Detroit 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 3:53 PM Subject: Re: (313) 100 BEST DJ IN THE WORLD (Mills) While I respect your opinion and understand that your comments are made in the context of this discussion (and also that dance music is ostensibly made for dancing), I have to say that I find the notion that someone gets to say how *I* need to react to something else in the sense that I can be marginalized when I don't is reductionistic and at least as problematic as a person who doesn't respond in the way dictated by whomever. I don't dance and I doubt I ever will; perhaps it's childhood trauma or an ill formed sense of self - whatever. That doesn't mean I don't enjoy the music nor does it mean I have to be saddled with restructuring a performative context or bumming out a DJ. It would seem like the fact that I haven't left the venue should say something. In an age where all kinds of criticism (literary, etc.) has freed art from static notions tied with the artist, I find it interesting that the monolithic notion of must-dancing still rules. I do understand the need for it and I understand how it creates a necessary symbiosis - but why does *everyone* need to be dancing in order for them to enjoy and appreciate something? We aren't all dancers, we aren't all as comfortable with dancing as each other. As a qualifier, I am not saying that any behavior or reaction to art is equally appropriate, nor am I saying there is no tie between art and artist. I just find it a bit tyrannical and quixotic to dictate behavior to a set. Again, my comments are not directed to this particular post (as I can see the connection you are making vis a vis the trend), but rather towards the notion that seems to underlie it : if I don't dance, I am unappreciative and some kind of pariah. If it's really about the music OR the mix, then I should be left to appreciate it in a way which is genuine to myself and doesn't shipwreck someone else's enjoyment. .02. jeff At 08:09 AM 11/4/2002, Toby Frith wrote: This is somewhat of a double-edged sword I think. In one respect, people go to see a DJ like Mills so they can dance. In the other respect, they go to watch his craft, which then takes the DJ out of his normal context and into that of an artist, because you are viewing him/her rather than interacting. (another argument which I'm not going to pontificate on here) So you get one half of the audience dancing and the other just watching. This has been, IMHO, the downfall of techno turntablism and the like in recent years. Too much watching, not enough dancing. I went to see Mills in Zurich a year ago and there was far too much of the latter going on. You could see him actually looking rather annoyed as one absolute classic after another (Final Frontier, Magnese) was being dropped only to see a leaden-footed and mute reaction from the crowd. How must a DJ feel when they are faced by banks of motionless people looking at them spin some records?
Re: (313) 100 BEST DJ IN THE WORLD (Mills)
Personally, I like to get the dancers dancing and the 'spotters 'spotting: I like having the whooping, screaming, yelling, jacking, climbing the walls AND the googly eyed what's he doing?!? What's that record?! You don't have to dance to recognise that it's a pretty similar achievement: everyone comes away saying, damn he/she banged it out - *that's* what I'm after. As to how you do it, do it any way you want to. I used to do tricks far more than I do now, I now never scratch beyond the odd second copy doubling up, and I pretty much conform to Cyclone's sleep house school of DJing. I certainly *wouldn't* say that the mix supercedes the records - quite the opposite - and in any case, it's just something that I have observed works better for the music I play. Some of the sleep house gang would say that mixing it up in the Mills style is mix over content, but they'd be equally wrong. It's horses for courses, and I suppose a good DJ will adapt accordingly. In my case, it's certainly not lack of skill - I'm relying on some charity here :) - nor is it some deeper than thou homage to the house canon, it just works for me. Not to say there aren't style over content DJs, but they're the *real* boring ones. All just IMHO.
Re: (313) 100 BEST DJ IN THE WORLD (Mills)
I can't really articulate what I want to say, because it will mean going into that whole artist/DJ argument which I can't be arsed with. Understood - but what needs to be said here is that there is artifice involved in any performance - and being a DJ of any and every ilk still involves artifice...it's just a different kind/kinds. Some of them are simply more transparent than others. The trouble with this whole issue is the tendency to answer complex questions with simple solutions, whether it be the analysis of the DJ/artist, the crowd or the individuals in the crowd rather than recognizing either the vast blend of factors going into the pot to make the stew. IMO it's the same kind of reductionist simplicity which denies a legitimate variety of response (e.g.,not taking into account that different people represent differently). jeff (who really does do more than post ebay links :-)
RE: (313) 100 BEST DJ IN THE WORLD (Mills)
... Johnny Mcintosh will be appearing at Public Life, London on 16 November, in Slices #3, dedicated to all forms of house. :o) -Original Message- From: Jonny McIntosh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 3:17 PM To: 313 Detroit Subject: Re: (313) 100 BEST DJ IN THE WORLD (Mills) Personally, I like to get the dancers dancing and the 'spotters 'spotting: I like having the whooping, screaming, yelling, jacking, climbing the walls AND the googly eyed what's he doing?!? What's that record?! You don't have to dance to recognise that it's a pretty similar achievement: everyone comes away saying, damn he/she banged it out - *that's* what I'm after. As to how you do it, do it any way you want to. I used to do tricks far more than I do now, I now never scratch beyond the odd second copy doubling up, and I pretty much conform to Cyclone's sleep house school of DJing. I certainly *wouldn't* say that the mix supercedes the records - quite the opposite - and in any case, it's just something that I have observed works better for the music I play. Some of the sleep house gang would say that mixing it up in the Mills style is mix over content, but they'd be equally wrong. It's horses for courses, and I suppose a good DJ will adapt accordingly. In my case, it's certainly not lack of skill - I'm relying on some charity here :) - nor is it some deeper than thou homage to the house canon, it just works for me. Not to say there aren't style over content DJs, but they're the *real* boring ones. All just IMHO.
Re: (313) 100 BEST DJ IN THE WORLD (Mills)
And I'll quickly add I don't always get to do what I like, so don't kick my head in if I don't have you climbing walls ;) ... Johnny Mcintosh will be appearing at Public Life, London on 16 November, in Slices #3, dedicated to all forms of house. :o) Personally, I like to get the dancers dancing and the 'spotters 'spotting: I like having the whooping, screaming, yelling, jacking, climbing the walls
RE: (313) 100 BEST DJ IN THE WORLD (Mills)
F*** ART, LET'S DANCE. I didn't get to the end of that piece I almost fell asleep trying to get to grips with its faux-intellectual weightiness. Don't be so pretentious ferchrisakes it's dance music! -Original Message- From: Mxyzptlk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 3:53 PM To: Toby Frith; Cyclone Wehner; 313 Detroit Subject: Re: (313) 100 BEST DJ IN THE WORLD (Mills) While I respect your opinion and understand that your comments are made in the context of this discussion (and also that dance music is ostensibly made for dancing), I have to say that I find the notion that someone gets to say how *I* need to react to something else in the sense that I can be marginalized when I don't is reductionistic and at least as problematic as a person who doesn't respond in the way dictated by whomever. I don't dance and I doubt I ever will; perhaps it's childhood trauma or an ill formed sense of self - whatever. That doesn't mean I don't enjoy the music nor does it mean I have to be saddled with restructuring a performative context or bumming out a DJ. It would seem like the fact that I haven't left the venue should say something. In an age where all kinds of criticism (literary, etc.) has freed art from static notions tied with the artist, I find it interesting that the monolithic notion of must-dancing still rules. I do understand the need for it and I understand how it creates a necessary symbiosis - but why does *everyone* need to be dancing in order for them to enjoy and appreciate something? We aren't all dancers, we aren't all as comfortable with dancing as each other. As a qualifier, I am not saying that any behavior or reaction to art is equally appropriate, nor am I saying there is no tie between art and artist. I just find it a bit tyrannical and quixotic to dictate behavior to a set. Again, my comments are not directed to this particular post (as I can see the connection you are making vis a vis the trend), but rather towards the notion that seems to underlie it : if I don't dance, I am unappreciative and some kind of pariah. If it's really about the music OR the mix, then I should be left to appreciate it in a way which is genuine to myself and doesn't shipwreck someone else's enjoyment. .02. jeff At 08:09 AM 11/4/2002, Toby Frith wrote: This is somewhat of a double-edged sword I think. In one respect, people go to see a DJ like Mills so they can dance. In the other respect, they go to watch his craft, which then takes the DJ out of his normal context and into that of an artist, because you are viewing him/her rather than interacting. (another argument which I'm not going to pontificate on here) So you get one half of the audience dancing and the other just watching. This has been, IMHO, the downfall of techno turntablism and the like in recent years. Too much watching, not enough dancing. I went to see Mills in Zurich a year ago and there was far too much of the latter going on. You could see him actually looking rather annoyed as one absolute classic after another (Final Frontier, Magnese) was being dropped only to see a leaden-footed and mute reaction from the crowd. How must a DJ feel when they are faced by banks of motionless people looking at them spin some records? Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Channel Four Television Corporation unless specifically stated. This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this email in error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: (313) 100 BEST DJ IN THE WORLD (Mills)
At 09:37 AM 11/4/2002, Robert Taylor wrote: F*** ART, LET'S DANCE. I didn't get to the end of that piece I almost fell asleep trying to get to grips with its faux-intellectual weightiness. Don't be so pretentious ferchrisakes it's dance music! Thanks for making my case for me. jeff
RE: (313) 100 BEST DJ IN THE WORLD (Mills)
Quite the opposite, fella, you've just outed yourself as a pompous fool who can't pass a day without pondering the significance of his own belly-button and reaching for the thesaurus. -Original Message- From: Mxyzptlk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 4:51 PM To: Robert Taylor; 313 Detroit Subject: RE: (313) 100 BEST DJ IN THE WORLD (Mills) At 09:37 AM 11/4/2002, Robert Taylor wrote: F*** ART, LET'S DANCE. I didn't get to the end of that piece I almost fell asleep trying to get to grips with its faux-intellectual weightiness. Don't be so pretentious ferchrisakes it's dance music! Thanks for making my case for me. jeff Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Channel Four Television Corporation unless specifically stated. This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this email in error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: (313) 100 BEST DJ IN THE WORLD (Mills)
This is true, Toby. But, I must say that if Mills didn't enjoy being watched, he could very well conceal himself like Hawtin does at his plastic parties. So this leads me to personally believe that Mills enjoys the attention of people wtching his skills... mills has been leaving the stage and having a video of him playing instead and then coming back on at a cue in the film. apparently with the idea of holographic images of a dj in the future. check out the brilliant techno tourist interview.
RE: (313) 100 BEST DJ IN THE WORLD (Mills)
At 09:55 AM 11/4/2002, you wrote: Quite the opposite, fella, you've just outed yourself as a pompous fool who can't pass a day without pondering the significance of his own belly-button and reaching for the thesaurus. Or else you have doubly-demonstrated my case and your own insecurity. Go one back to the nap you were taking. You'll wake up when the hustle-line tramps over you. Let's be courteous - if you insist on a further show of dramatic irony, take it offlist. jeff
RE: (313) 100 BEST DJ IN THE WORLD (Mills)
OK OK ComicBookStoreGuy - I just found what you said absurd. If you feel awkward and shy at a club and are too shy to dance, just say so. Don't try and make yourself sound awfully clever and even more awkward by intellectualising it. -Original Message- From: Mxyzptlk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 5:10 PM To: Robert Taylor Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: RE: (313) 100 BEST DJ IN THE WORLD (Mills) At 09:55 AM 11/4/2002, you wrote: Quite the opposite, fella, you've just outed yourself as a pompous fool who can't pass a day without pondering the significance of his own belly-button and reaching for the thesaurus. Or else you have doubly-demonstrated my case and your own insecurity. Go one back to the nap you were taking. You'll wake up when the hustle-line tramps over you. Let's be courteous - if you insist on a further show of dramatic irony, take it offlist. jeff Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Channel Four Television Corporation unless specifically stated. This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this email in error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: (313) 100 BEST DJ IN THE WORLD (Mills)
please just take this off list mk02 - Original Message - From: Robert Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Mxyzptlk' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Robert Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 6:06 PM Subject: RE: (313) 100 BEST DJ IN THE WORLD (Mills) OK OK ComicBookStoreGuy - I just found what you said absurd. If you feel awkward and shy at a club and are too shy to dance, just say so. Don't try and make yourself sound awfully clever and even more awkward by intellectualising it. -Original Message- From: Mxyzptlk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 5:10 PM To: Robert Taylor Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: RE: (313) 100 BEST DJ IN THE WORLD (Mills) At 09:55 AM 11/4/2002, you wrote: Quite the opposite, fella, you've just outed yourself as a pompous fool who can't pass a day without pondering the significance of his own belly-button and reaching for the thesaurus. Or else you have doubly-demonstrated my case and your own insecurity. Go one back to the nap you were taking. You'll wake up when the hustle-line tramps over you. Let's be courteous - if you insist on a further show of dramatic irony, take it offlist. jeff Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Channel Four Television Corporation unless specifically stated. This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this email in error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: (313) 100 BEST DJ IN THE WORLD (Mills)
I had a feeling my 'sleep house' would get me into trouble. ;) I am just so frustrated that here in Australia house promoters want to book these new school house DJs who play so smooth you wanna bring a pillow and drink cocoa yet they don't wanna book great DJs from the US as they're not hip (well maybe West Coast). You just know that they were into Sasha, not Kevin Saunderson and Mayday, back in the day. They play great records (eg Classic) just very boringly. It's... nice. There's one particular don of sleep house from the UK but I don't wanna get in trouble. If you're getting that kinda response then you're not playing sleep house. Sleep house DJs don't mess with the EQs much or anything much like that, it's all about The Mix. It's not a performance, it's not innovative, it's just immaculately boring. I can't think of any 313 sleep housers. From: Jonny McIntosh [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: (313) 100 BEST DJ IN THE WORLD (Mills) Date: 05/11/2002 2:16:38 To: 313 Detroit 313@hyperreal.org Personally, I like to get the dancers dancing and the 'spotters 'spotting: I like having the whooping, screaming, yelling, jacking, climbing the walls AND the googly eyed what's he doing?!? What's that record?! You don't have to dance to recognise that it's a pretty similar achievement: everyone comes away saying, damn he/she banged it out - *that's* what I'm after. As to how you do it, do it any way you want to. I used to do tricks far more than I do now, I now never scratch beyond the odd second copy doubling up, and I pretty much conform to Cyclone's sleep house school of DJing. I certainly *wouldn't* say that the mix supercedes the records - quite the opposite - and in any case, it's just something that I have observed works better for the music I play. Some of the sleep house gang would say that mixing it up in the Mills style is mix over content, but they'd be equally wrong. It's horses for courses, and I suppose a good DJ will adapt accordingly. In my case, it's certainly not lack of skill - I'm relying on some charity here :) - nor is it some deeper than thou homage to the house canon, it just works for me. Not to say there aren't style over content DJs, but they're the *real* boring ones. All just IMHO.
RE: (313) 100 BEST DJ IN THE WORLD (Mills)
I recently listened to the shake mix on groovetech and was nicely impressed by the combination of farina-esque house grooves with doubling up and some nice skills - makes a nice change to hear good house mixed up in that style -Original Message- From: Cyclone Wehner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 04 November 2002 16:21 To: 313 Detroit Subject: Re: (313) 100 BEST DJ IN THE WORLD (Mills) I had a feeling my 'sleep house' would get me into trouble. ;) I am just so frustrated that here in Australia house promoters want to book these new school house DJs who play so smooth you wanna bring a pillow and drink cocoa yet they don't wanna book great DJs from the US as they're not hip (well maybe West Coast). You just know that they were into Sasha, not Kevin Saunderson and Mayday, back in the day. They play great records (eg Classic) just very boringly. It's... nice. There's one particular don of sleep house from the UK but I don't wanna get in trouble. If you're getting that kinda response then you're not playing sleep house. Sleep house DJs don't mess with the EQs much or anything much like that, it's all about The Mix. It's not a performance, it's not innovative, it's just immaculately boring. I can't think of any 313 sleep housers. From: Jonny McIntosh [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: (313) 100 BEST DJ IN THE WORLD (Mills) Date: 05/11/2002 2:16:38 To: 313 Detroit 313@hyperreal.org Personally, I like to get the dancers dancing and the 'spotters 'spotting: I like having the whooping, screaming, yelling, jacking, climbing the walls AND the googly eyed what's he doing?!? What's that record?! You don't have to dance to recognise that it's a pretty similar achievement: everyone comes away saying, damn he/she banged it out - *that's* what I'm after. As to how you do it, do it any way you want to. I used to do tricks far more than I do now, I now never scratch beyond the odd second copy doubling up, and I pretty much conform to Cyclone's sleep house school of DJing. I certainly *wouldn't* say that the mix supercedes the records - quite the opposite - and in any case, it's just something that I have observed works better for the music I play. Some of the sleep house gang would say that mixing it up in the Mills style is mix over content, but they'd be equally wrong. It's horses for courses, and I suppose a good DJ will adapt accordingly. In my case, it's certainly not lack of skill - I'm relying on some charity here :) - nor is it some deeper than thou homage to the house canon, it just works for me. Not to say there aren't style over content DJs, but they're the *real* boring ones. All just IMHO. -- This message is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the designated recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. This communication is for information purposes only and should not be regarded as an offer to sell or as a solicitation of an offer to buy any financial product, an official confirmation of any transaction, or as an official statement of Lehman Brothers. Email transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free. Therefore, we do not represent that this information is complete or accurate and it should not be relied upon as such. All information is subject to change without notice.
RE: (313) 100 BEST DJ IN THE WORLD (Mills)
[Pryor, Ryan N]: His 'Live @ Liquid Room Tokyo' and 'Live in Germany' sets are nearly identical. While the mixing on these performances is immaculate, And highly entertaining, I find it kind of discouraging that someone would practice a set and then continually play it over and over without shame. Tristan Watkins [EMAIL PROTECTED]: You could say the same about nearly every touring DJ, can't you? Too an extent, but when I said nearly identical, I wasn't kidding. These sets are so similar it's not even funny. Playing what you know works and what blows away the crowd is great, but where is the skill in that? It gets old after a while, not only for the listeners, but for yourself. By the way, I have Live in Germany on mixtape and you are more than welcome to a copy, to have a listen. Drop me an email. Ryan
RE: (313) 100 BEST DJ IN THE WORLD (Mills)
-- Original Message -- From: Pryor, Ryan N [EMAIL PROTECTED] Too an extent, but when I said nearly identical, I wasn't kidding. These sets are so similar it's not even funny. Playing what you know works and what blows away the crowd is great, but where is the skill in that? It gets old after a while, not only for the listeners, but for yourself. aside from the fact that my question if people hold DMC style deejays to the same standards went unanswered, i have to point out that few if any people are following jeff mills around to Tokyo, Germany, wherever to hear him drop these similar sets. now if he was playing the same set multiple times in the same area over a long period of time, i might be able to see that argument. but to complain because he played the same set thousands of miles away from each other is moderately silly. i have an MP3 mix of Shake live at Hultfreds Festival that is damn near identical to a set he played here in pittsburgh near the end of 2000. im assuming this was at a similar time and it was very far away, and it made me happy to hear him play all those great tracks again. tom andythepooh.com
RE: (313) 100 BEST DJ IN THE WORLD (Mills)
live at the liquid room is laden with errors. it is a classic set. but it has at least 5 big mistakes. for a recorded mix that is a lot. mills is a sloppy dj. but he can get away with it because of his record selection. Pryor, Ryan N [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: mills is a terrible DJ. he just pics good tracks and has a bag of tricks. Not too sure about the terrible DJ remark, but I will have to agree on the bag of tricks part. It seems he has a couple of trademark sets he likes to play. His 'Live @ Liquid Room Tokyo' and 'Live in Germany' sets are nearly identical. While the mixing on these performances is immaculate, And highly entertaining, I find it kind of discouraging that someone would practice a set and then continually play it over and over without shame. That's cheating in my book.
RE: (313) 100 BEST DJ IN THE WORLD (Mills)
live at the liquid room is laden with errors. it is a classic set. but it has at least 5 big mistakes. for a recorded mix that is a lot. mills is a sloppy dj. but he can get away with it because of his record selection. He can get away with it because he's so damn quick. When a DJ works the decks mixer as much and as quickly as Mills does then there's bound to be some mistakes.
Re: (313) 100 BEST DJ IN THE WORLD (Mills)
- Original Message - From: Pryor, Ryan N [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 3:19 AM Subject: (313) 100 BEST DJ IN THE WORLD (Mills) mills is a terrible DJ. he just pics good tracks and has a bag of tricks. Not too sure about the terrible DJ remark, but I will have to agree on the bag of tricks part. It seems he has a couple of trademark sets he likes to play. His 'Live @ Liquid Room Tokyo' and 'Live in Germany' sets are nearly identical. While the mixing on these performances is immaculate, And highly entertaining, I find it kind of discouraging that someone would practice a set and then continually play it over and over without shame. You could say the same about nearly every touring DJ, can't you? How many records can you bring with you unless you're using Final Scratch??? If you play at Mills speed and play for Mills length, you will literally play a full crate of records in one set. For the record, when he DJ'd at The End in London recently, he was definitely searching for records throughout his set. If it was planned, he is a great actor. Also, Derrick May does this more than anyone from what I can tell, but when I only see him in one port, I don't care. Tristan = Text/Mixes: http://phonopsia.tripod.com Music: http://www.mp313.com Contact: [EMAIL PROTECTED] New Mix in mp3, 'Live in Iowa City' available for a short time from http://phonopsia.isoprax.com
