Remote working with 4D networks - what are people using ?

[Peter Jakobsson via 4D_Tech]

Hi

Due to impending “lockdown” situations I have users asking me how they can work 
from home. I was wondering what solutions others were finding worked well.

The service provider that many of the key users have at home (Talk-Talk in the 
UK)  blanket blocks all screen sharing software so will probably have to look 
into some kind of cloud hosting solution. The question is, how to set up 
network in the cloud (only needs 2 clients for now). Their office network runs 
on Macs, including the 4D server.

Regards

Peter

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Re: Remote working with 4D networks - what are people using ?

[Herr Alexander Heintz via 4D_Tech]

Well, the problematic point here is „MACS“

Complete lack of a remote terminal solution for Macs is the primary reason why 
most businesses have switched to Windows in the last 8-10 years.

I know it is not helping you to hear this…

Maybe you can set up a MS Terminal server (or much cheaper compatible tools, 
like TSPlus, even works on Windows 10).
Then have the Mac Users use MS RDP to access the Terminal Server und run the 4D 
Client on Windows.
May be unaccustomed to them and not always comfy, but works.

If a provider blocks RDP, then they are not suitable for business use and you 
should switch to someone else, BT ?

Most of my clients, and my employer have rolled out Terminal Services for just 
that purpose.
We just switched 35 Users to Home Office without a glitch.


> Am 19.03.2020 um 12:20 schrieb Peter Jakobsson via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>:
> 
> Hi
> 
> Due to impending “lockdown” situations I have users asking me how they can 
> work from home. I was wondering what solutions others were finding worked 
> well.
> 
> The service provider that many of the key users have at home (Talk-Talk in 
> the UK)  blanket blocks all screen sharing software so will probably have to 
> look into some kind of cloud hosting solution. The question is, how to set up 
> network in the cloud (only needs 2 clients for now). Their office network 
> runs on Macs, including the 4D server.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Peter
> 
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Re: Remote working with 4D networks - what are people using ?

[Randy Kaempen via 4D_Tech]

> On Mar 19, 2020, at 6:34 AM, Herr Alexander Heintz via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> Well, the problematic point here is „MACS“
> 
> Complete lack of a remote terminal solution for Macs is the primary reason 
> why most businesses have switched to Windows in the last 8-10 years.

I have to disagree.  I use screen sharing to access remote Macs on many of my 
clients’ systems.  It is fast and easy to use.  I can do whatever I want on the 
remote machines.

> I know it is not helping you to hear this…
> 
> Maybe you can set up a MS Terminal server (or much cheaper compatible tools, 
> like TSPlus, even works on Windows 10).
> Then have the Mac Users use MS RDP to access the Terminal Server und run the 
> 4D Client on Windows.
> May be unaccustomed to them and not always comfy, but works.
> 
> If a provider blocks RDP, then they are not suitable for business use and you 
> should switch to someone else, BT ?

I have a client who has a huge Windows Server machine and they run all 
instances of 4D client on it.  Everyone connects via RDP to those clients and 
it’s fast.


Randy Kaempen
Intellex Corporation

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Re: Remote working with 4D networks - what are people using ?

[Peter Jakobsson via 4D_Tech]

> On 19 Mar 2020, at 12:39, Randy Kaempen via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> I have to disagree.  I use screen sharing to access remote Macs on many of my 
> clients’ systems.  It is fast and easy to use.  I can do whatever I want on 
> the remote machines.

What remote access tech do you use Randy ? Just the built in screen sharing in 
macOS ? (Doe the client side work through a browser in that case ?).

> I have a client who has a huge Windows Server machine and they run all 
> instances of 4D client on it.  Everyone connects via RDP to those clients and 
> it’s fast.


You mean server + multiple clients on the same machine ? How do screen sharers 
connect to a particular instance of a 4D Client in that case if they’re all on 
the same machine ?


Peter

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Re: Remote working with 4D networks - what are people using ?

[Bernd Fröhlich via 4D_Tech]

Alexander Heintz:

> Complete lack of a remote terminal solution for Macs is the primary reason 
> why most businesses have switched to Windows in the last 8-10 years.

Sorry, but that´s just fake news.
I can log in the severel dozen Macs from home just fine.
Just switch on screen sharing and configure the router so that it connects to 
different macs depending on the port you are specifying in the connection.

Greetings from Germany,
Bernd Fröhlich
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Re: Remote working with 4D networks - what are people using ?

[Herr Alexander Heintz via 4D_Tech]

Am 19.03.2020 um 13:05 schrieb Peter Jakobsson via 4D_Tech 
<4d_tech@lists.4d.com>:

>> I have a client who has a huge Windows Server machine and they run all 
>> instances of 4D client on it.  Everyone connects via RDP to those clients 
>> and it’s fast.
> 
> 
> You mean server + multiple clients on the same machine ? How do screen 
> sharers connect to a particular instance of a 4D Client in that case if 
> they’re all on the same machine ?

Ah, a question from a MacTotaller :-)

Its called Terminal Server and multiple user sessions.
Windows can do that since NT.
MacOS cannot do that...

The Server runs as many sessions as users log on.
They just log onto the server with username and password and get their user 
session.
The user sessions are all separate from each other.
WIth their own application instances, etc.

Its what most businesses use nowadays as you can use the cheapest simplest 
desktop machines, only need to administrate the server, nothing, and i mean 
NOTHING is on the client machine, it only drives the network and screen.


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Re: Remote working with 4D networks - what are people using ?

[Bruno LEGAY via 4D_Tech]

Hi,

Few things here.

1. Apple native remote client ("Apple Remote Desktop" ARD) is very good. We use 
it remotely connect to machines and servers over a VPN.
The key thing is to have a VPN setup to secure your traffic.
You can also use VNC protocol.

So one remote client (home/Mac) === vpn ===> one Mac (on the LAN)

2. Windows Server has an option TSE (Terminal Server) similar to Citrix which 
allow to run your software in a window "Session". The windows session runs on 
the Terminal and you can use RDP (Microsoft Remote Desktop ie. Remote Desktop 
Protocol) to control that session remotely. So effectively your application (4D 
Client) runs on the LAN and it is as fast as if you were on the LAN. The 
windows server can run many Terminal Sessions simultaneously. And also, you 
should use this over a VPN.

So x remote client (home/Mac or Windows) === vpn ===> x Windows 
Terminal Session on 1 machine Windows server (on the LAN)

The VPN is the thing which will make things secure...

Me too I wish Apple did support something like TSE, but I am afraid it is not 
on their radar...

HTH

Bruno LEGAY
A&C Consulting



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Re: Remote working with 4D networks - what are people using ?

[Randy Kaempen via 4D_Tech]

Peter,

> On Mar 19, 2020, at 7:05 AM, Peter Jakobsson via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On 19 Mar 2020, at 12:39, Randy Kaempen via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I have to disagree.  I use screen sharing to access remote Macs on many of 
>> my clients’ systems.  It is fast and easy to use.  I can do whatever I want 
>> on the remote machines.
> 
> What remote access tech do you use Randy ? Just the built in screen sharing 
> in macOS ? (Doe the client side work through a browser in that case ?).

Yes, just the Screen Sharing app.  I connect to a remote computer.  Usually, I 
am connecting to their server to put on updates or make changes.

> I have a client who has a huge Windows Server machine and they run all 
> instances of 4D client on it.  Everyone connects via RDP to those clients and 
> it’s fast.
> 
> 
> You mean server + multiple clients on the same machine ? How do screen 
> sharers connect to a particular instance of a 4D Client in that case if 
> they’re all on the same machine ?

Different people log in as different users.  They each have their own desktop 
and files.


Randy Kaempen
Intellex Corporation

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Re: Remote working with 4D networks - what are people using ?

[Randy Kaempen via 4D_Tech]

Bernd,

> On Mar 19, 2020, at 7:21 AM, Bernd Fröhlich via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> Alexander Heintz:
> 
>> Complete lack of a remote terminal solution for Macs is the primary reason 
>> why most businesses have switched to Windows in the last 8-10 years.
> 
> Sorry, but that´s just fake news.
> I can log in the severel dozen Macs from home just fine.
> Just switch on screen sharing and configure the router so that it connects to 
> different macs depending on the port you are specifying in the connection.

Exactly.  On one of my clients, I am set up so I can support all the users 
directly.  On the router, we have the port forwarding set up to go to different 
computers.

Port 5900 -> Server
Port 5901 -> User 1
Port 5902 -> User 2
etc.

It’s very easy then to connect to the different computers.  There is also a Mac 
menu bar app called ScreenSharingMenulet which gives you a menu of all the 
available screen sharing destinations and you can configure other remote 
entries.  Then, all your screen sharing is available in one place.


Randy Kaempen
Intellex Corporation

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Re: Remote working with 4D networks - what are people using ?

[the 4Dmd via 4D_Tech]

Hi Peter,

It depends on what you are trying to accomplish  A few scenarios I have
done for a few clients...

1) If it's just 4D server they need access to then just port forward the
19812-19814 on the router to the 4D server machine and then install 4D
client (Mac or windows) on the employees home machines and point them to the
WAN IP address at work (or a domain name if you set that up)

2) If they need access to their Mac work desktop I have had great success
with ZeroTier.  The free version allows up to 100 devices in a network. 
(Sounds like you only need a few devices so will be all free for you) 
ZeroTier is a serverless (to you) virtual network.  You can create separate
networks in zerotier specific to the employees (so each network for my use
has only 2 computers in each network, their home machine and their specific
work machine).  Once ZeroTier is installed on their work machine and their
home machine and they connect to their specific zero tier network, their Mac
shows up in the "browse network" section on their home computer and they can
remote control or connect to file sharing.

- Matt (spiffyguy)

(I am not affiliated with ZeroTier, just use it for a few personal networks
and a number of work clients)

https://www.zerotier.com



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Re: Remote working with 4D networks - what are people using ?

[Lee Hinde via 4D_Tech]

1997 called and want their Slam-The-Mac back.  :-) 

> On Mar 19, 2020, at 4:34 AM, Herr Alexander Heintz via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> Complete lack of a remote terminal solution for Macs is the primary reason 
> why most businesses have switched to Windows in the last 8-10 years.

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Re: Remote working with 4D networks - what are people using ?

[Herr Alexander Heintz via 4D_Tech]

It’s not about slamming the mac, i work with a Mac since they exist (1984) and 
absolutely love my MacBook Pro, although I do have grievances concerning the 
ludicrous pricing policy (come on, I am willing to pay a premium, but 450% of 
market price for SSD or RAM?).

I just stated why Apple lost the corporate market.
And the reason for companies to forgo Apple are valid and understandable.
AFAIK the MacOS cannot be changed to allow multiple concurrent user sessions on 
one Computer, the OS simply lacks the necessary tools to do it.
When you switch users on a Mac, you need to first switch off the user you are 
currently logged in to.
On Windows I can have as many user sessions in parallel as I want to.
Terminal Servers are absolutely essential for the corporate market, it is a 
non-negotiable showstopper.
And corporate clients are not willing to pay quadruple price for standard 
commodities.

I will continue using Macs as long as I can afford them (and can work on them), 
but I have no corporate clients with Mac left.
And I know not ONE SINGLE corporation that uses Mac (but for the marketing 
department, maybe…).

Fact of life man!

> Am 19.03.2020 um 16:05 schrieb Lee Hinde via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>:
> 
> 1997 called and want their Slam-The-Mac back.  :-) 
> 
>> On Mar 19, 2020, at 4:34 AM, Herr Alexander Heintz via 4D_Tech 
>> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Complete lack of a remote terminal solution for Macs is the primary reason 
>> why most businesses have switched to Windows in the last 8-10 years.
> 
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Re: Remote working with 4D networks - what are people using ?

[James Crate via 4D_Tech]

On Mar 19, 2020, at 11:13 AM, Herr Alexander Heintz via 4D_Tech 
<4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> AFAIK the MacOS cannot be changed to allow multiple concurrent user sessions 
> on one Computer, the OS simply lacks the necessary tools to do it.
> When you switch users on a Mac, you need to first switch off the user you are 
> currently logged in to.

When I screen share to Macs and another user is logged in, I am always given 
the option to share that user’s screen or log in as myself. Logging in as 
myself creates a virtual instance and allows me to use that machine without 
disturbing anyone who maybe be sitting at the machine or screen sharing. It has 
been this way since at least macOS 10.10. 

Jim Crate

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Re: Remote working with 4D networks - what are people using ?

[Herr Alexander Heintz via 4D_Tech]

Am 19.03.2020 um 16:19 schrieb James Crate via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>:
> 
> Logging in as myself creates a virtual instance and allows me to use that 
> machine without disturbing anyone who maybe be sitting at the machine or 
> screen sharing.

Live and learn, remembered differently, but ist been a while that i really dug 
into macOS.
So what is the reason Apple is not offering a terminal server?
maybe because people might get the idea to access i via a windows machine (like 
apple users do to MS).
I think the problem here is the fact, that MS makes money with the operating 
System and Software, whereas Apple makes money by selling ridiculously 
overpriced hardware (got one myself, so i am allowed to say it), so a terminal 
server solution would be detrimental to their sales?
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Re: Remote working with 4D networks - what are people using ?

[Sandor Szatmari via 4D_Tech]

From:   James Crate via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
 To:   4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
 Cc:   James Crate  
 Sent:   3/19/2020 11:19 AM 
 Subject:   Re: Remote working with 4D networks - what are people using ? 

On Mar 19, 2020, at 11:13 AM, Herr Alexander Heintz via 4D_Tech 
<4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> AFAIK the MacOS cannot be changed to allow multiple concurrent user sessions 
> on one Computer, the OS simply lacks the necessary tools to do it.
> When you switch users on a Mac, you need to first switch off the user you are 
> currently logged in to.

When I screen share to Macs and another user is logged in, I am always given 
the option to share that user’s screen or log in as myself. 


For anyone who is curious, the behavior is a little different when using ARD 
(Apple Remote Desktop) management system. If you are using the ARD app, you 
just log right in and share the screen with the currently logged in user.  
There is no prompt to create a virtual desktop session.  You can still connect 
to the remote Mac through the typical finder dialogs and get the same prompt to 
log in as yourself or share screen with the current user if you want.



Sandor

Logging in as myself creates a virtual instance and allows me to use that 
machine without disturbing anyone who maybe be sitting at the machine or screen 
sharing. It has been this way since at least macOS 10.10. 

Jim Crate

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Re: Remote working with 4D networks - what are people using ?

[Janet Jonas via 4D_Tech]

The solution I have been using to work at home is a Mac App called VPN Tracer 
365, but it is not so great on speed for intensive data access, so I also use 
the built-in screen sharing in the Mac OS to connect to desktops, and our 
headless server machine - any machine that allows it. There are some issues as 
far as keyboard functioning and readability, which is why I prefer developing 
with my own 4D client running on a VPN. I have also had good success with the 
built-in VPN, but depending on your connection, it doesn't work well for 
everybody.

We are in a county in California that has instituted official emergency 
COVID-19 regulation to shelter in place and had to shut down the office 
location. Everyone was sent home with their iMacs preset to do the OS VPN, and 
only about a third to a half of them had the proper stability and bandwidth, or 
who knows?, to connect reliably from home. The rest brought back the iMacs to 
the office and are running Google Remote Desktop from their browsers at home - 
and it is very successful for them, so that is definitely something to look 
into.

JJ


> On Mar 19, 2020, at 5:05 AM,Peter Jakobsson  > wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 19 Mar 2020, at 12:39, Randy Kaempen via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com 
>> > wrote:
>> 
>> I have to disagree.  I use screen sharing to access remote Macs on many of 
>> my clients’ systems.  It is fast and easy to use.  I can do whatever I want 
>> on the remote machines.
> 
> What remote access tech do you use Randy ? Just the built in screen sharing 
> in macOS ? (Doe the client side work through a browser in that case ?).
> 
>> I have a client who has a huge Windows Server machine and they run all 
>> instances of 4D client on it.  Everyone connects via RDP to those clients 
>> and it’s fast.
> 
> 
> You mean server + multiple clients on the same machine ? How do screen 
> sharers connect to a particular instance of a 4D Client in that case if 
> they’re all on the same machine ?
> 
> 
> Peter
> 

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Re: Remote working with 4D networks - what are people using ?

[Janet Jonas via 4D_Tech]

Correction: I guess it is an app you download, Chrome Remote Desktop, I have 
never used it myself.

JJ


> On Mar 19, 2020, at 8:35 AM, Janet Jonas  wrote:
> 
> The solution I have been using to work at home is a Mac App called VPN Tracer 
> 365, but it is not so great on speed for intensive data access, so I also use 
> the built-in screen sharing in the Mac OS to connect to desktops, and our 
> headless server machine - any machine that allows it. There are some issues 
> as far as keyboard functioning and readability, which is why I prefer 
> developing with my own 4D client running on a VPN. I have also had good 
> success with the built-in VPN, but depending on your connection, it doesn't 
> work well for everybody.
> 
> We are in a county in California that has instituted official emergency 
> COVID-19 regulation to shelter in place and had to shut down the office 
> location. Everyone was sent home with their iMacs preset to do the OS VPN, 
> and only about a third to a half of them had the proper stability and 
> bandwidth, or who knows?, to connect reliably from home. The rest brought 
> back the iMacs to the office and are running Google Remote Desktop from their 
> browsers at home - and it is very successful for them, so that is definitely 
> something to look into.
> 
> JJ
> 

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Re: Remote working with 4D networks - what are people using ?

[kculotta via 4D_Tech]

I remember connecting a terminal to the serial port on Apple's Lisa, and 
running a second user.  We must have installed Unix or Xenix at the time.  
Aren't "terminal services" already a part of Unix (or macOS)?  I put that in 
quotes because, apart form being a terminal services user on occasion, I am not 
familiar with the workings of it.

Keith - CDI

> On Mar 19, 2020, at 10:19 AM, James Crate via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> On Mar 19, 2020, at 11:13 AM, Herr Alexander Heintz via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
>> 
>> AFAIK the MacOS cannot be changed to allow multiple concurrent user sessions 
>> on one Computer, the OS simply lacks the necessary tools to do it.
>> When you switch users on a Mac, you need to first switch off the user you 
>> are currently logged in to.
> 
> When I screen share to Macs and another user is logged in, I am always given 
> the option to share that user’s screen or log in as myself. Logging in as 
> myself creates a virtual instance and allows me to use that machine without 
> disturbing anyone who maybe be sitting at the machine or screen sharing. It 
> has been this way since at least macOS 10.10. 
> 
> Jim Crate
> 
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Re: Remote working with 4D networks - what are people using ?

[Herr Alexander Heintz via 4D_Tech]

Am 19.03.2020 um 16:52 schrieb kculotta via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>:
> 
> I remember connecting a terminal to the serial port on Apple's Lisa, and 
> running a second user.  We must have installed Unix or Xenix at the time.  
> Aren't "terminal services" already a part of Unix (or macOS)?  I put that in 
> quotes because, apart form being a terminal services user on occasion, I am 
> not familiar with the workings of it.

OsX is as much a UNIX flavor as we are basically primates.

BSD split in 75 from UNIX and NEXTSTEP in 86 from BSD.

don't know why, but AFAIK the MacOS is not suited for multiple concurrent user 
sessions.

Windows only is because the brought in the DEC people in the late 80es to 
create what was then known as Windows NT.
Multi-User capabilities were there from the start, the underlying architecture 
coming form OS/2.

All ancient history now.
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Re: Remote working with 4D networks - what are people using ?

[David Loeppky via 4D_Tech]

I'm sure there are more elegant solutions, but here is what we are doing.

Our office has a mix of Windows and Macs.  We use 4D, Quickbooks
Enterprise, and Google for essentially everything.

We have installed Google Remote Desktop on every office machine.

People are working from home using their home Macs, Windows, or Chrome
Books, connecting to their office machine using Google Remote Desktop.

As I said, not the most elegant, but it works, easy to setup, and reliable.



-- 

Regards,

David Loeppky

Co-Owner

T: 360.380.1908 x111

M: 360.319.9141

F: 360.384.3673

*dav...@chuckanutbay.com *






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Re: Remote working with 4D networks - what are people using ?

[Tom Benedict via 4D_Tech]

In my experience, what you describe is the ideal situation, where you have an 
office workstation to which you connect via some kind of screen sharing app on 
your remote machine. You get the full horsepower of your office workstation and 
all the remote machine has to do is screenshare.

Terminal Server/Citrix is similar except that your office workstation is a 
session on a server. I’ve worked in offices where everyone used a Terminal 
Server session and had no dedicated workstation hardware, so ‘remote’ or 
‘local’ were basically the same.

Tom

> On Mar 19, 2020, at 09:18, David Loeppky via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> I'm sure there are more elegant solutions, but here is what we are doing.
> 
> Our office has a mix of Windows and Macs.  We use 4D, Quickbooks
> Enterprise, and Google for essentially everything.
> 
> We have installed Google Remote Desktop on every office machine.
> 
> People are working from home using their home Macs, Windows, or Chrome
> Books, connecting to their office machine using Google Remote Desktop.
> 
> As I said, not the most elegant, but it works, easy to setup, and reliable.
> 
> -- 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> David Loeppky
> 

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Re: gitignore for projects

[Mike Kerner via 4D_Tech]

 did you diff the versions to see what changed in the .4dcatalog file?

On Tue, Mar 17, 2020 at 7:34 PM John DeSoi via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
wrote:

> I ignore anything in the settings directory, but you could argue against
> that. For example, you might want to track changes in your build settings
> file.
>
> You can't ignore catalog.4DCatalog if you want to track table and field
> changes to your structure.
>
> I'm currently exporting structure changes in 4D 17 to a 4D 18 project mode
> branch in catalog.4DCatalog. One frustration is that just opening in 4D 18
> project mode shows changes in catalog.4DCatalog without doing anything. I
> reported this as a bug, but it is apparently not reproducible by anyone
> else.
>
> John DeSoi, Ph.D.
>
>
> > On Mar 17, 2020, at 5:13 PM, Mike Kerner via 4D_Tech <
> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> >
> > any reason to NOT ignore the project/sources/catalog.4dcatalog or the
> > settings/directory.json file?  it seems those are regenerated every time
> > you do anything in the project.
>
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On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: barcode

[Mike Kerner via 4D_Tech]

we wrote a library way back in the day that used 4d draw, i think, but
using a font was always less hassle and faster.
building your own barcodes is like writing EPS or PDF or PCL from scratch.
You can do it, but if you don't have to, maybe you shouldn't.


On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 3:53 PM Chuck Miller via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> The only problem is creation of of bar code. I think hmbar code does all
> types (128 etc) which are harder to do programmatically.  When I tried, I
> was able to get 128 working on a Mac or a PC but not both. The coding seems
> to have been slightly different
>
> Regards
>
> Chuck
>
> 
>  Chuck Miller Voice: (617) 739-0306
>  Informed Solutions, Inc. Fax: (617) 232-1064
>  mailto:cjmillerinformed-solutions.com
>  Brookline, MA 02446 USA Registered 4D Developer
>Providers of 4D and Sybase connectivity
>   http://www.informed-solutions.com
>
> 
> This message and any attached documents contain information which may be
> confidential, subject to privilege or exempt from disclosure under
> applicable law.  These materials are intended only for the use of the
> intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient of this
> transmission, you are hereby notified that any distribution, disclosure,
> printing, copying, storage, modification or the taking of any action in
> reliance upon this transmission is strictly prohibited.  Delivery of this
> message to any person other than the intended recipient shall not
> compromise or waive such confidentiality, privilege or exemption from
> disclosure as to this communication.
>
> > On Mar 18, 2020, at 3:45 PM, Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech <
> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> >
> > Is there a problem with using a font? Just asking as that is what I am
> doing. Seems to work great.
> > The font is free, so cost is not an issue.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Jody
>
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-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Gmail, LSA, and OAuth

[Mike Kerner via 4D_Tech]

or you can do this a different way - using a mail relay.  that way your 4d
app doesn't have to be changed.  the relay accepts your smtp and then
relays the message to google.

On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 8:32 PM Guy Algot via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
wrote:

> 100% agree.
>
> > On Mar 18, 2020, at 3:59 PM, Randy Kaempen via 4D_Tech <
> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
>
> > Since the 4D Internet Commands are something that many companies use, it
> seems like it would be a good idea for us as a group to work on a way to
> move forward, either adding a framework which adds the OAuth around those
> commands or replacing them entirely.  An approach which handles to Google
> situation as well as other email systems would be useful to everyone going
> forward.
> >
> >
> > Randy Kaempen
> > Intellex Corporation
> >
>
>
> Later,
> Guy
>
> --
> Guy Algot, Solutions Specialist
> Edmonton, Alberta
> (780) 974-8538
>
> hardware, installation, training, support, programming, internet
> specializing in 4th Dimension
> =-= =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> "Microsoft is a cross between the Borg and the Ferengi. Unfortunately,
> they use Borg to do their marketing and Ferengi to do their programming."
> -- Simon Slavin
>
>
>
> **
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-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Printing Listbox multiple pages

[John J Foster via 4D_Tech]

Hi All,

I have an array based listbox of results that needs to be printed. I am 
starting with simple code:

PRINT SETTINGS
If (ok=1)
SET PRINT PREVIEW(True)
OPEN PRINTING JOB 
FORM LOAD("Timescan_print")
$ref:=Print object(*;"tscanChartInfo")
$ref:=Print object(*;"lb_Timeline")
CLOSE PRINTING JOB
End if 

But this only prints a single page (rows printed based upon listbox height). 
Obviously I haven’t designed it to calculate and print multiple pages yet and 
want to be efficient as I proceed.

Before I stumble my way through this I have reviewed past NUG threads and 
looked at Miyako’s and Keith’s examples But either, in Miyako’s case, it 
creates random values on the fly but does create multiple pages, for Keith’s 
example which stops at the size of the listbox.

So do I need to create a series of form pages: Header, row lines, footer, etc. 
and then print object and calculate or….

Is there an easier way to manage array based listbox printing over many pages?

Does anyone have any sample code of printing multi-page array based list boxes?

Thanks,
John…

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Re: Printing Listbox multiple pages (resolved)

[John J Foster via 4D_Tech]

Hi All,

Never mind - unless you found something a bit easier…

I found an older JPR example (I think) and it was really easy!

Just change the code to something like this:

C_BOOLEAN(vOver;$ref)

PRINT SETTINGS
If (ok=1)
SET PRINT PREVIEW(True)
OPEN PRINTING JOB 
FORM LOAD("Timescan_print")

vOver:=False  // Flag for cancel printing
Repeat 
$ref:=Print object(*;"tscanChartInfo")
vOver:=Print object(*;"lb_Timeline")
If (Not(vOver))
PAGE BREAK
End if 
Until (vOver)
CLOSE PRINTING JOB
End if 

For all those who might need it in the future.

John…

> Hi All,
> 
> I have an array based listbox of results that needs to be printed. I am 
> starting with simple code:
> 
> PRINT SETTINGS
> If (ok=1)
>   SET PRINT PREVIEW(True)
>   OPEN PRINTING JOB 
>   FORM LOAD("Timescan_print")
>   $ref:=Print object(*;"tscanChartInfo")
>   $ref:=Print object(*;"lb_Timeline")
>   CLOSE PRINTING JOB
> End if 
> 
> But this only prints a single page (rows printed based upon listbox height). 
> Obviously I haven’t designed it to calculate and print multiple pages yet and 
> want to be efficient as I proceed.
> 
> Before I stumble my way through this I have reviewed past NUG threads and 
> looked at Miyako’s and Keith’s examples But either, in Miyako’s case, it 
> creates random values on the fly but does create multiple pages, for Keith’s 
> example which stops at the size of the listbox.
> 
> So do I need to create a series of form pages: Header, row lines, footer, 
> etc. and then print object and calculate or….
> 
> Is there an easier way to manage array based listbox printing over many pages?
> 
> Does anyone have any sample code of printing multi-page array based list 
> boxes?
> 
> Thanks,
> John…
> 

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Re: Remote working with 4D networks - what are people using ?

[Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech]

On Mar 19, 2020, at 2:00 PM, Alexander Heintz wrote:

> OsX is as much a UNIX flavor as we are basically primates.
> 
> BSD split in 75 from UNIX and NEXTSTEP in 86 from BSD.
> 
> don't know why, but AFAIK the MacOS is not suited for multiple concurrent 
> user sessions.

Good that you prefaced your statement with “AFAIK”, because you don’t know. 

macOS has supported multiple simultaneous users on the same machine with each 
having their own U macOS Lion 10.7. So it’s been around for a long time. Very 
easy to use from one Mac to another using built in Screen Sharing application. 

You can also do it from a Windows machine but you need to get the right VNC app 
that supports the new protocol and user login. VNC Viewer works.

https://www.realvnc.com/en/connect/download/viewer/

Apple put a limit of 5 simultaneously connected users with macOS 10.13 High 
Sierra. Before that you could do many more if you had a powerful Mac — same as 
if you were doing this on Windows with Terminal Server. 

Here’s a link with a lot of details, for those that want to know more:

https://superuser.com/questions/125636/can-a-mac-be-used-by-multiple-users-at-same-time

Also, here are a couple of screenshots I took from my Mac Mini server running 
10.13 with 2 Screen Sharing sessions active at the same time. Two users: 
“Administrator" and “Screen User” are configured. Just to show an example of 
how it works. 

When you connect to a Mac with Screen Sharing you have to specify a user name 
and password. You can get the dialog box below if you are trying to connect 
with an account that it already knows. Just select another account to log in 
again with a new Screen Sharing connection:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/0x3gvnasf57otz3/ScreenShare%20Connect%20Confirm.PNG

Then you get the macOS login screen. Select the user account and enter the 
password. (You can save all this to the Keychain so you don’t have to double 
login every time.) 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/tpsjwvzb7t96ql2/LoginScreen.PNG

Here are the 2 sessions running side-by-side on my iMac Pro. Notice it is the 
same Mac Mini computer, but with two users. Each has it’s own Desktop, Dock and 
all that stuff. 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/9x3xm5zpt1lgu2x/TwoUserScreenShare.PNG

It is super easy to set this up and use. A lot easier than doing the same thing 
on Windows with Terminal Server and using RDC. But then you would expect that 
since it is a Macintosh… right? 😀

Tim

*
Tim Nevels
Innovative Solutions
785-749-3444
timnev...@mac.com
*

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Re: barcode

[Bernd Fröhlich via 4D_Tech]

Chuck Miller:

> The only problem is creation of of bar code. I think hmbar code does all 
> types (128 etc) which are harder to do programmatically.  When I tried, I was 
> able to get 128 working on a Mac or a PC but not both. The coding seems to 
> have been slightly different

If you need a "Code 39" barcode then you can use the following method.
I adapted it out of a component by Thomas Maul and made it standalone.
It returns a picure that you can place on a form to print.

C_TEXT($1;$tCode)
C_LONGINT($2;$lScale)
C_PICTURE($0)
C_TEXT($tPattern;$t;$tSVG;$tLine;$tPoints;$tRef)
C_LONGINT($i;$x;$x2;$y;$y2;$lCount;$lHeight;$lWidth;$lBarwidth;$lScale)

$tCode:=$1
If (Count parameters>1)
$lScale:=$2
Else 
$lScale:=1
End if 

If ($Tcode#"*@")
$tcode:="*"+$tcode
End if 
If ($tcode#"@*")
$tcode:=$tcode+"*"
End if 
If (Length($tcode)>32)
g4D_AlertErr ("Code zu lang!")
End if 

$tPattern:=""
For ($i;1;Length($tCode))
$t:=$tCode[[$i]]
Case of 
: ($t="*")
$tPattern:=$tPattern+"1001011011010"
: ($t="0")
$tPattern:=$tPattern+"1010011011010"
: ($t="1")
$tPattern:=$tPattern+"1101001010110"
: ($t="2")
$tPattern:=$tPattern+"1011001010110"
: ($t="3")
$tPattern:=$tPattern+"1101100101010"
: ($t="4")
$tPattern:=$tPattern+"1010011010110"
: ($t="5")
$tPattern:=$tPattern+"1101001101010"
: ($t="6")
$tPattern:=$tPattern+"1011001101010"
: ($t="7")
$tPattern:=$tPattern+"1010010110110"
: ($t="8")
$tPattern:=$tPattern+"1101001011010"
: ($t="9")
$tPattern:=$tPattern+"1011001011010"
: ($t="A")
$tPattern:=$tPattern+"1101010010110"
: ($t="B")
$tPattern:=$tPattern+"1011010010110"
: ($t="C")
$tPattern:=$tPattern+"1101101001010"
: ($t="D")
$tPattern:=$tPattern+"1010110010110"
: ($t="E")
$tPattern:=$tPattern+"1101011001010"
: ($t="F")
$tPattern:=$tPattern+"1011011001010"
: ($t="G")
$tPattern:=$tPattern+"1010100110110"
: ($t="H")
$tPattern:=$tPattern+"1101010011010"
: ($t="I")
$tPattern:=$tPattern+"1011010011010"
: ($t="J")
$tPattern:=$tPattern+"1010110011010"
: ($t="K")
$tPattern:=$tPattern+"1101010100110"
: ($t="L")
$tPattern:=$tPattern+"1011010100110"
: ($t="M")
$tPattern:=$tPattern+"1101101010010"
: ($t="N")
$tPattern:=$tPattern+"1010110100110"
: ($t="O")
$tPattern:=$tPattern+"1101011010010"
: ($t="P")
$tPattern:=$tPattern+"1011011010010"
: ($t="Q")
$tPattern:=$tPattern+"1010101100110"
: ($t="R")
$tPattern:=$tPattern+"1101010110010"
: ($t="S")
$tPattern:=$tPattern+"1011010110010"
: ($t="T")
$tPattern:=$tPattern+"1010110110010"
: ($t="U")
$tPattern:=$tPattern+"1100101010110"
: ($t="V")
$tPattern:=$tPattern+"1001101010110"
: ($t="W")
$tPattern:=$tPattern+"1100110101010"
: ($t="X")
$tPattern:=$tPattern+"1001011010110"
: ($t="Y")
$tPattern:=$tPattern+"1100101101010"
: ($t="Z")
$tPattern:=$tPattern+"1001101101010"
: ($t="-")
$tPattern:=$tPattern+"1001010110110"
: ($t=".")
$tPattern:=$tPattern+"1100101011010"
: ($t=" ")
$tPattern:=$tPattern+"1001101011010"
: ($t="$")
$tPattern:=$tPattern+"1001001001010"
: ($t="/")
$tPattern:=$tPattern+"1001001010010"
: ($t="+")
$tPattern:=$tPattern+"1001010010010"
: ($t="%")
$tPattern:=$tPattern+"1010010010010"
Else 
g4D_AlertErrCaseOf (Current method name)
End case 
End for 

$tSVG:

Re: Gmail, LSA, and OAuth

[Chuck Miller via 4D_Tech]

what relay would you propose. 

Regards

Chuck

 Chuck Miller Voice: (617) 739-0306
 Informed Solutions, Inc. Fax: (617) 232-1064   
 mailto:cjmillerinformed-solutions.com 
 Brookline, MA 02446 USA Registered 4D Developer
   Providers of 4D and Sybase connectivity
  http://www.informed-solutions.com  

This message and any attached documents contain information which may be 
confidential, subject to privilege or exempt from disclosure under applicable 
law.  These materials are intended only for the use of the intended recipient. 
If you are not the intended recipient of this transmission, you are hereby 
notified that any distribution, disclosure, printing, copying, storage, 
modification or the taking of any action in reliance upon this transmission is 
strictly prohibited.  Delivery of this message to any person other than the 
intended recipient shall not compromise or waive such confidentiality, 
privilege or exemption from disclosure as to this communication. 

> On Mar 19, 2020, at 12:44 PM, Mike Kerner via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> or you can do this a different way - using a mail relay.  that way your 4d
> app doesn't have to be changed.  the relay accepts your smtp and then
> relays the message to google.

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Re: Gmail, LSA, and OAuth

[Tom Benedict via 4D_Tech]

I support a 4D app which currently uses Twilio sendgrid.net send all outbound 
email.  While our email volume is modest Iaven’t run into any issues with it. 
Seems stable.

Tom Benedict

> On Mar 19, 2020, at 13:50, Chuck Miller via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> what relay would you propose. 
> 
> Regards
> 
> Chuck
> 
> 
>> On Mar 19, 2020, at 12:44 PM, Mike Kerner via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> or you can do this a different way - using a mail relay.  that way your 4d
>> app doesn't have to be changed.  the relay accepts your smtp and then
>> relays the message to google.
> 

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Re: Remote working with 4D networks - what are people using ?

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

When I need to work from home, I connect my iMac to a PC at work using 
Splashtop.
It's just like sitting at the desk at work and it works great!
HTH, Keith
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Re: gitignore for projects

[John DeSoi via 4D_Tech]

Yes, it shows differences in whitespace near comments in the .4DCatalog file.

John DeSoi, Ph.D.


> On Mar 19, 2020, at 12:38 PM, Mike Kerner via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> did you diff the versions to see what changed in the .4dcatalog file?

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