Where Are All The Steppers And Spinners?

[Allan Udy via 4D_Tech]

Hi All,

A bit gutted that we're not in Chicago right now meeting some of you, 
but hey what can you do -- it's a changing world!


Anyway, here's a question for you to ponder regarding the new Stepper 
and Spinner objects (https://kb.4d.com/assetid=78429)...


Any ideas why I cannot see either the Spinner or Stepper in my copy of 
4D v18.1?  All I'm seeing is Progress Indicator, Dial and Ruler


I looked for the Spinner a while back in 18.0, and couldn't find it, but 
at the time just ignored the fact that it was missing.


I would like to use a Stepper though, if I can find it.  ;-)

Hope you're all staying well.

Cheers,
Allan Udy

Golden Micro Solutions Ltd, Blenheim, New Zealand
http://www.golden.co.nz

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

The chained list of deleted records is circular?

[Allan Udy via 4D_Tech]

Hi All,

How do we fix this sort of issue that's been reported in a Verify Log File:

Problem on the Audit_Log data table 
: The chained list of deleted records is circular



Would also love to know how to deal with this:

Problem on B-tree Index 12 
on Audit_Log.LogDate index : Index is flagged to be rebuilt


What does it actually mean as far as the validity of the datafile is 
concerned?



A standard datafile Repair does not appear to be dealing with these 
issues



Cheers,
Allan Udy

Golden Micro Solutions Ltd, Blenheim, New Zealand
http://www.golden.co.nz

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: Necessary To End Task After Quitting Server

[Allan Udy via 4D_Tech]

Hi Tim,


Timothy Penner wrote on 27/02/20 6:34 AM:

the very last line of code in the On Server Shutdown message is a logging 
entry, which DOES get executed so we no it's not getting hung up on code in 
there. Perhaps the application is releasing the memory?

Take a look at the Task Manager and watch the memory for the 4D Server.exe 
process after you choose QUIT. Essentially the memory value of the process 
decreases until it reaches 0 and then the application finally quits.


Many thanks for your explanation -- it makes some sense, we'll 
investigate.  We're not far away from moving to v18  :-)


Cheers,
Allan Udy

Golden Micro Solutions Ltd, Blenheim, New Zealand
http://www.golden.co.nz

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: Necessary To End Task After Quitting Server

[Allan Udy via 4D_Tech]

Hi Stephen,

Stephen J. Orth wrote on 26/02/20 10:00 AM:

We get this occasionally and the best I can attribute it to is that 4D is 
waiting for something to stop before exiting. Just make sure you don't have 
something hung up during the shutdown process.


Thanks.  Have been trying to do so but it appears that the only 
processes still running are internal database engine ones, and the very 
last line of code in the On Server Shutdown message is a logging entry, 
which DOES get executed so we no it's not getting hung up on code in there.


Cheers,
Allan Udy

Golden Micro Solutions Ltd, Blenheim, New Zealand
http://www.golden.co.nz

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Necessary To End Task After Quitting Server

[Allan Udy via 4D_Tech]

Hi all,

We've run into an issue where on a deployed server application, when 
using the File > Quit menu item, the server effectively hangs and does 
not actually quit (even when all Clients have disconnected), and the DBA 
has to use the Windows Task Manager to actually force quit the application.


This has happened on both Windows Server 2012 and 2019, in all flavors 
of v17RX (and possible earlier).


Currently on the live server (Windows Server 2019) it happens all the time.

On the DBA's test server machine it wasn't happening, but now it is.

On our Windows Server 2019 test machine in our office it doesn't happen 
at all -- the application quits as one would expect.


Has anyone seen anything like this?

Cheers,
Allan Udy

Golden Micro Solutions Ltd, Blenheim, New Zealand
http://www.golden.co.nz

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: 4D Server Spontaneously Sets 'Reject New Connections' To 'Accept..."

[Allan Udy via 4D_Tech]

Hi Rikard,

Did you ever find a resolution for this? We started to get the exakt same issue 
you describe a couple of month ago on a customer when upgrading from v13 to 
v17.0 HF2. 4D then told us to update 17.3 HF2, still same problem.


While we no longer have the issue, I'm afraid wecan't actually pin-point 
the exact solution for you.  We had a number of different problems at 
essentially the same time (for months and months) and we had to try a 
number of different things before the issues seemed to stop.


The system is currently running using 4D v17R6, on a machine running 
Windows Server 2012, with the majority of the clients being Windows 10. 
All in 64-bit (obviously as we're running R6), and currently using the 
legacy network layer.


We 'think' that the problem went away after a version update, so I'm 
wondering if there was something that changed in one of the later R 
releases (R4) that hasn't been rolled into the Dot releases?


Sorry I can't be any more help at the moment. We'll have a chat about it 
at this end and if we think of anything else that might help, we'll let 
you know.


Cheers
Allan




ustomer is running Windows 10 clients and Windows Server 2012. We use 32 bit 
client and 64bit server. The environment was the same when running v13 where 
did not have this issue.

Server can be running from 1-2 days until almost 2 weeks before it happens.

We are currently using the legacy network layer and we are now about to change to the 
"new network layer" (again recommendation from 4D).

We are quite desperate to find a solution for this.




On 13 Feb 2019, at 23:12, Allan Udy via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

Hi all,

I asked in November, and Tim Nevels confirmed he''d seen the issue once, but I 
need to ask again:

Has anyone else seen an instance of the 'Reject New Connections' button on the 
Application Server page of the 4D Server Admin window, spontaneously changing 
to 'Accept New Connections' WITHOUT anyone manually pressing/clicking the 
button?

4D Server 17R3 -- also happened with earlier versions of v17. May have happened 
with v16 but can't confirm
Windows Server 2012
Has happened on the current server hardware, and also on a different hardware 
box.
Clients network, cabling and switches have been seriously over-hauled and 
upgraded over the past six months.


We got a call from a client to say that their 15 in-house users had been 
disconnected from the (4D) server (again).

When I remotely connected to the live server I could see:

a) there were zero (0) users connected,

b) the HTTP Server page of the Admin window indicated that the server was still 
accepting incoming web connections (the counter was ticking over)

c) We logged into the online system, updated some data and submitted the update.

d) We received the emailed update notification from the system, indicating that 
the internal web server was still working happily, and that the server code was 
still capable of sending email out.

e) the UI of the server Admin window was responsive -- there was no interface 
lagging as there often is if the system is experiencing any sort of memory 
issue.

f) the New Connection button on the Application Server page of the Admin window 
read 'Accept New Connections'.  In other words, as far as the Server UI was 
concerned, someone had previously gone into the Application Server page and 
manually clicked on the 'Reject New Connections' button. !!  I believe no 
one actually did that.

g) As soon as I pressed the 'Accept New Connections' the server froze up and I 
had to End Task and restart.


Has anyone else seen this behaviour?


We've recently added some internal logging into the On Server Close Connections 
database method, and can see in our Logs, that at exactly the same time (to the 
second)there were 57 *On Server Close Connections (i.e. DIS*connection*)*logs 
recorded as ALL of the logged in Clients disconnected.  I wouldn't expect this 
to happen if there were some form of network issue?

This suggests that from 4D Servers**perspective all the clients were 
disconnected in an orderly fashion at the same time, almost as though the 
Server admin had issued a Shutdown/Quit command and the clients were being 
forced to disconnect from the server.

It's almost like the internal 4D Engine is periodically checking some network 
(?) or internal condition, and if it fiond it to be true, then the New 
Connections button interface text is changed to 'Accept New Connections'

If anyone has any suggestions as to how this could happen, we'd be interested 
to know.



Golden Micro Solutions Ltd, Blenheim, New Zealand
http://www.golden.co.nz<http://www.golden.co.nz>

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Email Attachments Missing after New process ?

[Allan Udy via 4D_Tech]

Hi All,

It seems to me that when building up an email using the new Mail theme 
commands in 4D v17R6/v18, if an attachment is added to the mail object, 
when that email object is sent to a new process using either the 'New 
process' or 'Execute on server' commands, the attachment Property in the 
email object is now empty and the email will NOT send due to this error 
condition.


Is this a bug, or am I missing something...?

I've created a single standalone method to illustrate test this if 
anyone is interested in trying it. This can be popped into any v17/v18 
data and executes and will illustrate the issue.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/pno3qygwyyd7cfp/EmailAttachmentTest.txt?dl=0


Cheers,
Allan Udy

Golden Micro Solutions Ltd, Blenheim, New Zealand
http://www.golden.co.nz

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

v17 64-bit -- error opening datafile on MacOS file server

[Allan Udy via 4D_Tech]

Hi all,

We use a couple of very small databases in-house, where the datafile is 
stored on a file server (MacOS), and various people will periodically 
access the system and then quit.


Just upgraded one of these to v17R6 64-bit (from v17R4 32-bit)    at 
startup a record is written into the datafile and this action 
immediately throws a - error:  "No more room to save the record."


If we copy the datafile off the file server onto a local hard disk, the 
4D v17R6 64-bit version of the app opens the datafile perfectly fine, 
with no error.


It appears that this is a 64-bit problem, as the earlier v17R4 32-bit 
version works fine, where-as R4 and R5 64-bit also display the same error.


I've tried with two different client machines (both Macs), and two 
different file server -- same result.


Anyone have any suggestions as to what may be going on here?  What am I 
missing?


Cheers,
Allan Udy

Golden Micro Solutions Ltd, Blenheim, New Zealand
http://www.golden.co.nz

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: Windows Build - STR# 10135, 18/19 Folders

[Allan Udy via 4D_Tech]

Hi John

Did you ever get to the bottom of this?

I've just had v17R6 start to do this to me under Windows 10 when I 
attempt to compile/merge engine an app that compiled perfectly fine with 
v17R5.


In my case the Server and Clients apps are in a folder called

STR# 10135, 20


Any light you can shed on this would be hugely appreciated.

Cheers
Allan


4d_tech-requ...@lists.4d.com wrote on 11/03/19 3:34 AM:

From: John J Foster
To:4D  iNug Technical<4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
Subject: Windows Build - STR# 10135,18/19  Folders

Hey All,

I couldn’t find anything in KB that explained this situation.

Windows 10 -4D  v17r4

I just noticed that the build of an engined version of my app creates two 
foldersnamed:

STR# 10135, 18 -> Appname.4dbase -> includes the .4DC/.4DIndy files
STR# 10135, 19 -> Appname -> includes executable

Is this related to the application build XML or JSON file?



Cheers,
Allan Udy

Golden Micro Solutions Ltd, Blenheim, New Zealand
http://www.golden.co.nz

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: 4D Volume Desktop has stopped working

[Allan Udy via 4D_Tech]

Thanks Chuck,

Using a built Client as well.

Not sure which downloaded files you're referring to...?



Charles Miller wrote on 18/09/19 1:30 PM:
I would try deleting the downloaded files when you connect and see if 
that has any impact on the situation. Are you running with built 
client or just using volume desktop. You could also try 4D to make 
connection If the later


Regards
Chuck



Cheers,
Allan Udy

Golden Micro Solutions Ltd, Blenheim, New Zealand
http://www.golden.co.nz

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

4D Volume Desktop has stopped working

[Allan Udy via 4D_Tech]

Hi all,

Starting to get a bit desperate here, so wondering if anyone else has 
come across this issue .  one of our customers is running a built 
server, v17R4. The Server is running on Windows Server 2019, upwards of 
15 clients running on Windows 10.


The bulk of the clients are fine, but there's a couple who are regularly 
having issues with the 64-bit client crashing with the standard error 
message '4D Volume Desktop has stopped working', and so they revert to 
using a 32-bit client which works perfectly fine for them.  Quite often 
the client user will attempt to restart 64-bit several times (after 
having used it OK for an hour or so), and it simply will not start at 
all (hence the reversion to 32-bit client).


Customer is very reluctant to move to v17R5 (64-bit only) until this 
issue is resolved, and I can understand why!


Anyone have any suggestions as to what I could look at to solve this?


Cheers,
Allan Udy

Golden Micro Solutions Ltd, Blenheim, New Zealand
http://www.golden.co.nz

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Obscure bug in the VERIFY CURRENT DATA FILE command

[Allan Udy via 4D_Tech]

Hi All,

I appear to have found an obscure bug in the VERIFY CURRENT DATA FILE 
command.   This info here in the hope that this might save someone else 
some time further down the track...



Summary

If the VERIFY CURRENT DATA FILE command is called from a stored 
procedure on a server, AND if some externally stored data is NOT in the 
correct place (i.e. ABC.ExternalData folder), then the command 'hangs' 
and the server becomes inoperable, eventually needing to be force quit. 
This is despite the fact that when manually using the 'Verify Records 
and Indexes' button on the Maintenance page of the Server Admin window, 
the verification process completes perfectly fine and does NOT exhibit 
the same behaviour.


This has been established using a built server with 4D v17R4, running on 
a Windows Server 2019 (Std) machine.  It has been experienced in all R 
versions of v17, and possibly v16 as well (but I can't recall exactly 
when it started happening).



More Details

Our example database has a table with a Picture field that is set to be 
'Stored outside data file'.


We have an overnight process running that calls VERIFY CURRENT DATA FILE 
in the middle of the night to check the status of the datafile and to 
report if it picks up any errors.


 VERIFY CURRENT DATA FILE(Verify all;Timestamp log file 
name;"Datafile_Verification_Callback")


The 'Datafile_Verification_Callback' method simply tracks the number of 
errors found and displays a small MESSAGE window on screen during the 
process so that an admin looking at the server can tell that the process 
is running (and how far through it is to completion).


When running on the Live server this causes no problems, and has run 
fine for several years.



However we have a local test server in our office and periodically grab 
a fresh copy of the live datafile. Due to the size of the datafile 
(>100Gb), the IT manager does not always provide the xyx.ExternalData 
folder, which for most intents and purposes of this test machine is OK. 
It's only a small amount of data and we'd obviously grab the folder if 
we were testing that area of the system.


Periodically the test server is left turned on overnight, and for some 
time we have realised that when this happens, the overnight verification 
process has automatically run, and in all cases has 'hung' the test 
server application, requiring a force start.


We've recently tracked this down to being when the table with the 
external picture data was being checked.  So we updated the 
xyx.ExternalData folder on the test machine and found that VERIFY 
CURRENT DATA FILE still crashed.  We then created a routine to double 
check the external data, and to delete any records that were 'corrupt', 
i.e.:


    $DataPath:=Get external data path([Driver_Pictures]Pictures
    If (Test path name($DataPath)#Is a document)
        DELETE RECORD([Driver_Pictures])
    End if

This was simply due to the fact that we did NOT use both the latest 
datafile, and the latest xyx.ExternalData folder -- meaning that there 
were some records in the datafile which did not have the appropriate 
corresponding data in the xyx.ExternalData folder.


Having done this we were left with several thousand records in the 
datafile, which all had matching data in the xyx.ExternalData folder.


Once we did this and ran the VERIFY CURRENT DATA FILE command again, the 
verification process completed and terminated correctly.


Obviously this is an extreme edge case, and we know in theory we should 
NOT be using the datafile with the the appropriate xyx.ExternalData 
folder, yada yada yada!  ;-)


However I guess the point is that there appears to be a discrepancy 
between the behaviour of the VERIFY CURRENT DATA FILE command and the 
manual 'Verify Records and Indexes' button on the Maintenance page of 
the Server Admin window.  This is not going to affect many people 
(any?), but certainly in my case if the two verification options behaved 
the same way, then it's likely that I would have spent much less time 
trying to track down why the test server was hanging in the middle of 
the night, and worrying about why it was and why the live server wasn't 



Cheers,
Allan Udy

Golden Micro Solutions Ltd, Blenheim, New Zealand
http://www.golden.co.nz

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Barcode Data Entry - Cool New Solution

[Allan Udy via 4D_Tech]

Hi All,

This is a simple heads up to anyone who is interested in the idea of 
getting barcode scanned data into your apps.


I've just found the really interesting app 'Scan-IT For Office'  : 
https://www.tec-it.com/en/software/mobile-data-acquisition/scan-it-to-office/overview/Default.aspx


As per their blurb:


Scan-IT to Office is the*all-in-one solution for remote barcode 
scanning and mobile data acquisition*. The mobile app captures data 
like bar codes, texts, numbers, locations, images and much more. Cloud 
services transfer the collected data immediately to target documents 
or target applications on your desktop computer.


NEW:The recently introduced/Smart Keyboard Wedge Tool/for Scan-IT to 
Office transfers remotely captured data into arbitrary desktop 
applications on your PC or Mac.




I've just had a play around with it this morning, and installed the 
keyboard wedge software on my MacBook Pro running 10.12.   I put the iOS 
app on my iPhone 5S, and had the phone paired with the MBP and sending 
in barcodes (with timestamps and Long/Lat) to TextEdit on the Mac in 
less than five minutes.


Obviously I haven't used this 'in the field' yet, but I can definitely 
see some very interesting possibilities.  Hope this helps someone else.



Cheers,
Allan Udy

Golden Micro Solutions Ltd, Blenheim, New Zealand
http://www.golden.co.nz

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Null End Point errors - a couple of years back

[Allan Udy via 4D_Tech]

Date:Thu, 13  Oct 2016 19:40:30 -0400
From: Randy Jaynes
Subject: NULL End Point errors

So I finally have an installation location where many of the clients get the 
"NULL End point error dialogs” which point me to issues with the network.


Hi Randy,

Did you ever track down what was causing these issues.  We've got a 
client (using v17R4, Windows) who is currently experiencing some of 
these errors.



Cheers,
Allan Udy

Golden Micro Solutions Ltd, Blenheim, New Zealand
http://www.golden.co.nz

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

4D View Pro Save Image of Current Sheet ?

[Allan Udy via 4D_Tech]

The 4D Tech Tip  (https://kb.4d.com/assetid=78210) showing how to use WA 
Evaluate JavaScript to save an image of a current 4DViewPro area is 
handy, but it appears that it only saves the current Viewport, not the 
whole sheet.


Is anyone here capable enough with the use of WA Evaluate JavaScript and 
the Spreadjs documentation to help me work out how to save the entire sheet?


While I've had quite a bit of luck extending the functionality of 4D 
View Pro at this early stage by using WA Evaluate JavaScript, this is 
starting to stetch my limits a bit too far  ;-)


Cheers,
Allan Udy

Golden Micro Solutions Ltd, Blenheim, New Zealand
http://www.golden.co.nz


**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

RE: Error connecting to 4D Server

[Allan Udy via 4D_Tech]

Keith White



We first saw many of these symptoms with v16R6 using the new network layer

... using v16R6 with the new network layer, we did get mass disconnections 
occurring and also seeing the Admin window changing the Accept/Reject by 
itself.  So after a mass disconnection, new connections couldn't be made.  At 
least that's what we initially thought.  It turned out that if you waited long 
enough (several minutes), connections would again be allowed...

In the end,4D  figured out a possible cause through some diagnostic logs they 
got from another customer.  The reference for the issue was ACI0098997.  It was 
fixed in v17 HF4 and obviously also fixed in v17.1.

Whilst the issue was fixed by4D,  the actual problem is caused by4D  Server 
receiving an incomplete set of packets from one or more4D  Remotes.  This could 
be due to any number of potential network or client machine issues


Many thanks for your detailed information.

I'm absolutely gobsmacked the 4D France (via 4D Australia) appears to 
have been unwilling and or unable to provide that information directly 
to us, given the questions I've been asking an the information I've been 
providing.


Back in mid-January I was told:

4D v17 R3 has just been released.  It contains those fixes :

ACI0098530 : "Accept new connections" button does not allow 4D Remote 
to connect again to 4D Server.
ACI0098997 : 4D Server become unable to accept new connection after 
receiving an incorrect client request.


The interesting thing to note is that ACI0098530 IS LISTED in the "v17 
R3- Fixed bugs" list (https://bugs.4d.fr/fixedbugslist?Version=17_R3) 
BUT, ACI0098997 is NOT listed in the Fixed Bugs list.


I have now been through the recent bug fix documentation:

https://bugs.4d.fr/fixedbugslist?Version=17.0_HF4 ->  Says ACI0098997 
Fixed in  16.4 HF1
https://bugs.4d.fr/fixedbugslist?Version=17.1             ->  Says 
ACI0098997 Fixed in 17.0 HF4  and 16.4 HF1


https://bugs.4d.fr/fixedbugslist?Version=17_R2 ->  NO MENTION OF 
ACI0098997
https://bugs.4d.fr/fixedbugslist?Version=17_R3 ->  NO MENTION OF 
ACI0098997
https://bugs.4d.fr/fixedbugslist?Version=17_R4 ->  NO MENTION OF 
ACI0098997


I'm beginning to suspect that it was NOT actually implemented in v17R3, 
and that in the R3 version (i.e. the version that we're currently 
running), it's still an existing bug/problem.


What concerns me is that it's not mentioned in the v17R4 Bug Fix list 
that is currently available, either.   :-(



Cheers,
Allan Udy

Golden Micro Solutions Ltd, Blenheim, New Zealand
http://www.golden.co.nz

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: Error connecting to 4D Server

[Allan Udy via 4D_Tech]

Stephen J. Orth wrote on 9/04/19 12:11 AM:
We have worked with our users regarding all kinds of Windows settings, 
including power, network, sleep, etc. however this is the first time 
I’ve heard the recommendation to put the server at “High Performance”. 
Interesting…


Steve, that info is easy to missIf you check out the following 
documentation pdf on the 4D website:


4D v17 R3 System requirements – January 2019

You'll see that they've recently added new information to the 
Requirements docs, specifically:



Windows Energy Saving Settings

The default settings for Windows Server or Windows desktop computers 
are optimized for saving energy. While this is usually the best 
setting for desktop usage, “High performance” servers could produce up 
to twice the speed than “Balanced”.




See also this tech tip from December:

https://kb.4d.com/assetid=78169


Changing to 'High Performance' on our problematic server certainly 
solved one issue and had a significant impact on the stability of the 
server application.



Cheers,
Allan Udy

Golden Micro Solutions Ltd, Blenheim, New Zealand
http://www.golden.co.nz

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

RE: Error connecting to 4D Server

[Allan Udy via 4D_Tech]

From: Chip Scheide <4d_o...@pghrepository.org>

not a merged server expert - at all - BUT
4D server does (or at least did in earlier versions) reject new client 
connections during a backup.

it is possible that 4D server is doing a backup, changing the setting/disabling 
connections during backup - then failing (in some manner) to correctly reset to 
allow connections?


Pretty sure this is NOT the case -- this particular database backs up in 
the middle of the night, but most of the 'New Connection' disconnections 
occur during the day after users have already logged in earlier in the day.



Cheers,
Allan Udy

Golden Micro Solutions Ltd, Blenheim, New Zealand
http://www.golden.co.nz

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

RE: Error connecting to 4D Server

[Allan Udy via 4D_Tech]

From: "Stephen J. Orth"

I don't have an solution for you but I would love to know how to stop these 
issues as they are regular problems facing our OEM Clients.

We have talked to our Clients about port time outs, external scanning software, 
etc.  We have made adjustments on our side where we can...but we just cannot 
seem to stop these issues.  What is worse, we really don't have any more 
suggestions for our Clients as this is only linked to 4D.


I haven't been following this thread closely Steve, but here's something 
else to keep an eye on and consider


We too are having issues with one of our customers (with Windows merged 
app server), who has been having relatively frequent client 
disconnections. We believe there were TWO different issues at work...


We managed to solve quite a few of those by ensuring the Power Settings 
on the Windows server were set to 'High Performance', not 'Balanced' -- 
you should be able to find info about those settings by searching the 
net etc.


The second issue has been much more problematic -- it appears to us, 
that in v17 (at least), 4D Server is capable of autonomously setting the 
'Reject New Connections' option, without user input.  That is, we've 
seen a significant number of client disconnections, where upon 
investigation we've seen that the '... New Connections' button on the 
Application Server page of the Administration Window has been reading 
'Accept New Connections', indicating that the server is NO LONGER 
accepting connections.  Every time we then use the server UI to click 
this button, the Server application crashes in a most unladylike manner.


Tim Nevels (if I recall correctly), reported to us a couple of months 
ago that he'd seen the same issue, once.


We've been working with 4D Australia, and forwarding info to 4D France 
to try and find out under what circumstances the internal server engine 
will change the text on that button from 'Reject New Connections' to 
'Accept New Connections', but so far 4D France appears to be unwilling 
to share that info.  I figure it may not necessarily be a bug in 4D, but 
if we knew what conditions triggered the behavior we might be able to 
solve the problem if it's environmental. That is, somehow the engine is 
recognising that there's a condition where there are no new connections 
being accepted, and so it changes the text on the button to 'Accept New 
Connections, without a user actually pressing that button.


Previously I thought we were going mad, and that there should be no need 
for the server engine to be able to autonomously change the text on that 
button, other than when a user actually clicks the button, however if 
you look at the documentation for v17R4 you'll see that there is a new 
REJECT NEW CONNECTIONS command coming.  maybe someone has been 
working on this internal code for a while and has changed something?


We now ensure, for the time being, that the DBA leaves the Application 
Server page of the Administration Window open at all times, so that we 
can see if the button text has changed when they report massed client 
disconnections.


This is an ongoing nightmare for us.  :-(

Cheers,
Allan Udy

Golden Micro Solutions Ltd, Blenheim, New Zealand
http://www.golden.co.nz

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: v17 web area

[Allan Udy via 4D_Tech]

FWIW, we recently had something similar (again in v17 Windows 64bit 
server/32bit client), a web area showing a Google map which had been 
working fine for ages, and then stopped working.


The solution to this was to open up the form, click on the Web Area, go 
to the Properties window and turn OFF the option:


  Use embedded Web rendering engine

Once we did that it started working again. Thanks to Anthony Taylor for 
working that one out for us!   :-)


Cheers,
Allan Udy


From: David Samson 

A few years ago I successfully implemented the tech note
"15-13_MapWithDataCluster". I modified it for our needs and it worked well.
That was on v14.

Now, on v17 (Windows, 64 bit server, 32 bit clients) it is not displaying
the background map. The generated data points are still displayed but on a
blank background. I have checked the Leaflet map is in the correct
resources folder. I tried to download the tech note again and the demo has
the same problem when converted to v17.

Any ideas?



Golden Micro Solutions Ltd, Blenheim, New Zealand
http://www.golden.co.nz

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Nested For Loops and the Debugger ...?

[Allan Udy via 4D_Tech]

Odd behaviour with the debugger today -- initially thought it might be a 
bug in v17R3, but then went back to v14 and found the same behaviour


With the following code:

Trace
For ($Loop1;1;10)
    ALERT("Iteration: "+String($Loop1))
    For ($Loop2;1;10)
        BEEP
    End for // <-  Put a break point on this line

End for

If you put a break point on line 6 (the first End for),  step through 
the code in the debugger and go through the second loop a couple of 
times, then drag the yellow current line marker OVER the first end for, 
when the interpreter steps into the final 'End for', instead of jumping 
back to the second line (For ($Loop1;1;1000)) it actually jumps back to 
line four!!  That wasn't expected.


Guess the situation is that we've never had to debug tightly focused 
nested For loops previously and had not noticed this behaviour before. 
Presumably once the interpreted is stepped into the final 'End For' 
after have skipped the first End For, it's working backwards up the 
lines of code to find the first 'For loop to continue running.


Maybe this note will help someone else to avoid wasting time like we 
just did trying to work out why 4D is doing what it's doing in this 
situation.


Cheers,
Allan Udy

Golden Micro Solutions Ltd, Blenheim, New Zealand
http://www.golden.co.nz

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

4D Server Spontaneously Sets 'Reject New Connections' To 'Accept..."

[Allan Udy via 4D_Tech]

Hi all,

I asked in November, and Tim Nevels confirmed he''d seen the issue once, 
but I need to ask again:


Has anyone else seen an instance of the 'Reject New Connections' button 
on the Application Server page of the 4D Server Admin window, 
spontaneously changing to 'Accept New Connections' WITHOUT anyone 
manually pressing/clicking the button?


4D Server 17R3 -- also happened with earlier versions of v17. May have 
happened with v16 but can't confirm

Windows Server 2012
Has happened on the current server hardware, and also on a different 
hardware box.
Clients network, cabling and switches have been seriously over-hauled 
and upgraded over the past six months.



We got a call from a client to say that their 15 in-house users had been 
disconnected from the (4D) server (again).


When I remotely connected to the live server I could see:

a) there were zero (0) users connected,

b) the HTTP Server page of the Admin window indicated that the server 
was still accepting incoming web connections (the counter was ticking over)


c) We logged into the online system, updated some data and submitted the 
update.


d) We received the emailed update notification from the system, 
indicating that the internal web server was still working happily, and 
that the server code was still capable of sending email out.


e) the UI of the server Admin window was responsive -- there was no 
interface lagging as there often is if the system is experiencing any 
sort of memory issue.


f) the New Connection button on the Application Server page of the Admin 
window read 'Accept New Connections'.  In other words, as far as the 
Server UI was concerned, someone had previously gone into the 
Application Server page and manually clicked on the 'Reject New 
Connections' button. !!  I believe no one actually did that.


g) As soon as I pressed the 'Accept New Connections' the server froze up 
and I had to End Task and restart.



Has anyone else seen this behaviour?


We've recently added some internal logging into the On Server Close 
Connections database method, and can see in our Logs, that at exactly 
the same time (to the second)there were 57 *On Server Close Connections 
(i.e. DIS*connection*)*logs recorded as ALL of the logged in Clients 
disconnected.  I wouldn't expect this to happen if there were some form 
of network issue?


This suggests that from 4D Servers**perspective all the clients were 
disconnected in an orderly fashion at the same time, almost as though 
the Server admin had issued a Shutdown/Quit command and the clients were 
being forced to disconnect from the server.


It's almost like the internal 4D Engine is periodically checking some 
network (?) or internal condition, and if it fiond it to be true, then 
the New Connections button interface text is changed to 'Accept New 
Connections'


If anyone has any suggestions as to how this could happen, we'd be 
interested to know.



Cheers,
Allan Udy

Golden Micro Solutions Ltd, Blenheim, New Zealand
http://www.golden.co.nz

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: 4D v16.4 Built database won't open in Mojave

[Allan Udy via 4D_Tech]

Walt,

Sorry - haven't been reading the NUG for a couple of weeks -- did you 
ever solve this issue?


I had something very similar a few months back with v16 and a client who 
had upgraded his machine to High Sierra -- suddenly the app stopped 
working in a very similar way.


>From memory we had to recompile the app to 64-bit because the machine 
was running with an SSD (instead of a standard hard disk), and when the 
OS update was installed it converted the file system on the SSD to Apple 
File System (*APFS*) -- from our testing this was not 32-bit compatible 
and we were getting 'Can't open database "DatabaseName.4DC"' errors.



Cheers, Allan Udy Golden Micro Solutions Ltd, Blenheim, New Zealand 
http://www.golden.co.nz




4d_tech-requ...@lists.4d.com wrote on 6/11/18 1:36 AM:

From: Walt Nelson
To: Dani Beaubien via4D_Tech<4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
Subject:4D  v16.4 Built database won't open in Mojave


I have built a stand-alone Application v16.4 database on a Mac OS machine 
running High Sierra (10.13.6).

I successfully create an empty datafile and run it on the same High Sierra 
(10.13.6) machine.

I transfer the entire stand-alone built database to a laptop running Mojave 
(10.14).

When opening that database, I get the following error: ‘You cannot open this 
database because the data file (or one of its segments) is locked.’ with an OK 
button.

Click OK. Get a runtime error showing:

ErrorCan't open database “DatabaseName.4DC".

Error code: -10509
Can't open database "DatabaseName.4DC".
component: '4DRT'
task -1, name: 'Application process’




Cheers,
Allan Udy

Golden Micro Solutions Ltd, Blenheim, New Zealand
http://www.golden.co.nz

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

4D Server automatically setting 'Reject New Connections' ?

[Allan Udy via 4D_Tech]

Hi All,

Has anyone else seen 4D Server spontaneously 'dropping' 4D Client 
connections, and automatically setting the 'Reject New Connections' 
option in the server Administration window?


We've seen this with both v16 and v17. Usually when the DBA goes to 
'Accept New Connections' in the server admin window, the server app 
(compiled and merged) will throw up its arms in horror and crash -  "4D 
Server has stopped working.  Windows can check online for a solution.."


We'd really like to be able to solve this problem


Cheers,
Allan Udy

Golden Micro Solutions Ltd, Blenheim, New Zealand
http://www.golden.co.nz

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: WritePro letter emailed to MS Outlook

[Allan Udy via 4D_Tech]

Hi Pat,
I'd suggest that you try using SMTP_Quicksend instead of the 
lower-level SMTP functions. Read up on SMTP_Quicksend and I think 
you'll find that you can do everything you need with that, and (in our 
pretty thorough testing) it sends emails that are accepted by Outlook, 
Yahoo, Gmail, Mail, and others.


Thanks for your reply.

We already have Write Pro letters going out using smtp_quicksend which 
are received correctly formatted as you note.


The issue is that smtp_quicksend does not allow for the sending of 
attachments hence the reason we are using smpt_body in some cases.




On Wed, 3 Oct 2018 at 21:26, Allan Udy (Golden Micro) via 4D_Tech 
<4d_tech@lists.4d.com > wrote:


Hi all,

We have an issue sending a Write Pro letter in the body of an
email to
Microsoft Outlook.

1. We export the Write Pro object into a variable:

*   WP EXPORT VARIABLE*($PrintLetter;$Email_Body;wk web page
html 4D)


2. Then we use IC's SMTP_body to build the body of the email,
specifying
that the format is HTML  ie option = 4

*/   SMTP_Body/* ($SMTP_ID;$Email_Body;4)


3. When this email is sent out, email clients such as Apple Mail
receive
the body correctly formatted.  However the body of the email in
Microsoft Outlook clients shows as Times New Roman, and some of the
other formatting of the document is lost.

Can anyone tell us how to get Microsoft Outlook to honour the
formatting



Cheers,
Allan Udy

Golden Micro Solutions Ltd, Blenheim, New Zealand
http://www.golden.co.nz

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Anyone using FTP_Receive under 64-bit? SOLVED

[Allan Udy via 4D_Tech]

Hi all,

One for the archives -- a month or so ago we noted we were having 
problems with the Internet Commands command FTP_Receive under 64-bit 
MacOS (v16R6 and earlier).
I'm having a problem with Internet Commands FTP_Receive under 64-bit 
-- the command immediately returns a -2201 error and nothing is 
received (on Mac and Windows).


Using 4D v16R6 32-bit, the code works fine and files can be received. 
Same code using v16R6 64-bit fails.  The 64-bit version will 
successfully log in to the FTP site, and will retrieve a directory 
listing etc, but will not allow file download.


Finally (after wasting a bucket load of time developing a workaround 
using cURL), we managed to work out what the problem was/is with the 
FTP_Receive command:  basically the behavior of the plug-in command 
under 64-bit does not match the documentation!  Hopefully this message 
will save someone else the headache we've had. This is being reported to 
4D as a bug.


The documentation states:
            FTP_Receive (ftp_ID ; hostPath ; localPath ; progress) -> 
Functionresult


            localPath is a text value that specifies the path of the 
destination of the document.


            If localPath is a null string, the user will be presented 
with a Standard Save-File
            Dialog and the resulting file pathname will be returned 
back into the localPath variable. 


But, under 64-bit, localPath MUST be a path/filename otherwise an error 
is thrown (-2201).


Our problem boiled down to the fact that our code was sending localpath 
as a null string, as per the docs, which worked fine under 32-bit, but 
fails under 64-bit.


Hate it when that happens!


Cheers,
Allan Udy

Golden Micro Solutions Ltd, Blenheim, New Zealand
http://www.golden.co.nz

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

PDF Creation on Windows under v16 -- Changed?

[Allan Udy via 4D_Tech]

Hi again,

After recently upgrading one of our vertical market apps to v16R6 (from 
v14), we're getting reports from several user sites that the (relatively 
simple) PDF reports that they've been emailing to their clients are now 
failing on a more regular basis.


Failure consists of:

a) attached PDFs not actually appearing at the email destination, or

b) some of the attached PDFs that do arrive are corrupt and are unreadable.


At this stage there seems to be a mix of both Win 7/8 clients using PDF 
Creator, and Win 10 clients using the built-in pdf writer (our software 
auto switches depending on the OS).


We know that there are SMTP Server, spam filter and ISP issues at work 
(as there always have been), and we're working through this trying to 
get more info, but it would be useful to know if anyone else noticed the 
appearance of more problems with PDFs under v16 compared with earlier 
versions?



Cheers,
Allan Udy

Golden Micro Solutions Ltd, Blenheim, New Zealand
http://www.golden.co.nz

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: Anyone using FTP_Receive under 64-bit?

[Allan Udy via 4D_Tech]

Hi Randy,

I'd greatly appreciate seeing a bit of example code that works. Many thanks.


Randy Jaynes wrote on 16/08/18 9:25 AM:
Yes it does. I have it implemented if you’d like a copy of the method 
I can email it directly to you.
It’s fairly generic, but I can strip out the application specific 
stuff and comment it before sending.


Cheers,
Allan Udy

Golden Micro Solutions Ltd, Blenheim, New Zealand
http://www.golden.co.nz

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Anyone using FTP_Receive under 64-bit?

[Allan Udy via 4D_Tech]

Hi all,

I'm having a problem with Internet Commands FTP_Receive under 64-bit -- 
the command immediately returns a -2201 error and nothing is received 
(on Mac and Windows).


Using 4D v16R6 32-bit, the code works fine and files can be received. 
Same code using v16R6 64-bit fails.  The 64-bit version will 
successfully log in to the FTP site, and will retrieve a directory 
listing etc, but will not allow file download.


I've checked that the correct IC bundle is installed.  Have also tested 
with v16rR4 and v16.3. Have tested with two different FTP sites. Same issue.


Anyone else seeing this?  Anyone successfully using FTP_Receive under 
64-bit.


What are the advantages/disadvantages of re-writing the code to use 
Keisuke Miyako’s cURL FTP plugin?



Cheers,
Allan Udy

Golden Micro Solutions Ltd, Blenheim, New Zealand
http://www.golden.co.nz

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Ten Year Old Self Help Tutorials. Really?

[Allan Udy via 4D_Tech]

Hi All,

I'm about to start training a new programmer in the black arts of 4D 
development 


A hunt on the 4D website suggests that the last 'Self Training' tutorial 
material available was created for v11 (i.e. TEN years ago in 2007) !!


Is that correct or are there more recent resources available?

I had a feeling that I had recently (12 months?) seen something more up 
to date, but at this stage I can't find it. Maybe I was mistaken...


I appreciate that creating this sort of material is not easy or cheap, 
but I would have thought that keeping it up to date with new versions of 
4D as they released would be more cost effective that not having the 
material at all.  How else are we to easily get new blood/DNA into the 
4D gene pool?



Cheers,
Allan Udy

Golden Micro Solutions Ltd, Blenheim, New Zealand
http://www.golden.co.nz

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: Default Font ? 4D 15.4 & Windows 10

[Allan Udy via 4D_Tech]

Hi all,

We have this problem as well.  If someone finds out what Font has been 
removed (so that we can put it back), that would solve a lot of short 
term headaches, thanks


Cheers,
Allan Udy

Golden Micro Solutions Ltd, Blenheim, New Zealand
http://www.golden.co.nz



From: Robert ListMail

Hi Jim,

I have the same problem. From what I understand Microsoft removed the font that 
was being referenced in a recent update to Windows 10. Do you know what font 
was deprecated? In a pinch could you add the font back to Windows?

Thanks,
Robert


On May 9, 2018, at 8:02 AM, Jim Medlen via 4D_Tech<4d_tech@lists.4d.com>  wrote:

A very curious issue came up this week on Windows 10 clients.
All Fields and variables on a form that do not have a specific Font declared
are defaulting to Windings.

Thanks,
Jim Medlen

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Failed To Create A Listening Socket ?

[Allan Udy via 4D_Tech]

Hi All,

We have a Windows Server 2012 setup as a test machine.  It was used for 
testing last weekend - Web Server started and behaved perfectly fine.


This afternoon I started the 4D server for more testing and got a 
Runtime error (it's a Compiled and Merged Server app):


 Failed to create a listening socket

and then the message that the database cannot be published.

Anyone have any ideas or suggestions why/how this happened?

Absolutely no changes made to the server, or the 4D database or datafile 
between testing sessions  (we're testing a remote app's access into the 
system, not the 4D database itself).  I've checked the firewall on the 
machine, have turned SSL on and off, tried different Ports for the web 
server, checked the machine has internet access and that it can be 
pinged across the network etc, with no luck...


Using v16R4.About to move to R6 next week.

I don't understand what I'm missing.  so any suggestions are welcome.

Cheers,
Allan Udy

Golden Micro Solutions Ltd, Blenheim, New Zealand
http://www.golden.co.nz

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Options To Put Data Into Existing Excel Spreadsheets?

[Allan Udy via 4D_Tech]

Hi All,

I'm up the proverbial creek without a paddle...

Years ago (v11) we started using the 'Excel Library' component put 
together (I think) by Keisuke.  For the life of me I can no longer find 
a source version of this (if there ever was one), and it appears that 
any online link to the component no longer exists.


At one point we did get the component upgraded to work in a v14 
database.  Seems (under MacOS at least) that it's still working under 
v16, but it's plainly only 32-bit.  Due to a couple of other reasons we 
now need to look at taking this single-user app to 64-bit, and of course 
it won't work.  :-(


I have found Keisuke's 4d-plugin-xls  
(https://github.com/miyako/4d-plugin-xls), but this does not appear to 
contain options to find and set cell ranges as the earlier component 
did, nor is there any sensible documentation, so it's not really useable.


I'm aware of Pluggers XL Plugin, but at 600 Euro it's going to be hard 
sell for our client when only basic use is made of Excel  (Open a 
spreadsheet, find a couple of named cells, put data in those cells, save 
the spreadsheet).


Are there any other options out their to interface a 4D app with an 
Excel spreadsheet?


Cheers,
Allan Udy

Golden Micro Solutions Ltd, Blenheim, New Zealand
http://www.golden.co.nz

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

EX_IS_PROCESS_DYING ?

[Allan Udy via 4D_Tech]

Hi All,

In working through my recent DebugLogs, in order to find a reason why 4D 
Remotes are being disconnected from the server application, I've come 
across a few instances of the following (in the Logs):


4D Internet Commands:  EX_IS_PROCESS_DYING(Command ID  2;414)


This is being called (and recorded in the Log) over 220,000 times  in 
the space of a couple of seconds!  This seems a bit excessive to me...


Does anyone know if this is normal behaviour or not?  Does anyone know 
when/why this call is made?


Cheers,
Allan Udy

Golden Micro Solutions Ltd, Blenheim, New Zealand
http://www.golden.co.nz

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: 4D Debug Log Reader - Plugin Commands

[Allan Udy via 4D_Tech]

Hi Justin,

Justin previously determined that this is the case, and in his Log 
Parsing database that we're using, the plugin command ID's are assumed 
to start with  3;YYY.


Through a bit of trial and error I can now say with reasonable certainty 
that in v16 at least, the plugin Commands now appear to start with 1, 
rather than 3 as was necessary in previous versions of your Debug Log 
Reader.


A few of the Plugin commands showing up in my Debug Log files take 
parameters, and so it's relatively straight forward to match them up 
with the actual commands used in the source.  It was just a matter of 
re-parsing the source Plug-in folder with a different starting ID no 
each time until the database then indicates that the Plugin calls are 
from 4D Internet Commands.


Cheers,
Allan Udy

Golden Micro Solutions Ltd, Blenheim, New Zealand
http://www.golden.co.nz


**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: 4D Debug Log Reader - Plugin Commands

[Allan Udy via 4D_Tech]

Hi Keisuke,


From: Keisuke Miyako

the relation between plugin command names and numbers can be studied from 
manifest.json (v14 sdk) or *.rsrc (earlier)

https://github.com/4D-JP/plugin-command-numbers


Greatly appreciate you taking the time trying to help, but I really 
don't understand your message


Where/what is '...manifest.json (v14 sdk) or *.rsrc (earlier)...'  ?

The issue that Justin Carr and I are discussing is in determining from 
the 4D DebugLogs, what plugins are being referred to by the  X;YYY 
references in the Log file.


In your 'plugin-command-numbers' example database from GitHub, in Method 
2 there is the comment:


  //in the v14 format (4), the plugin command is printed as 3;10,
  //where the first figure is the plugin number
  //apparently the index in PLUGIN LIST +2,
  //and the second figure is the command number.

Justin previously determined that this is the case, and in his Log 
Parsing database that we're using, the plugin command ID's are assumed 
to start with  3;YYY.


I'm now trying to examine a Debug Log file generated from a v16R4 
database, and there are Plugin References of the form:2;414


Thus, in v16 (at least), the statement from v14 that '... the index in 
PLUGIN LIST +2...'  is now INCORRECT.


I'm trying to determine if for v16 it should be that '...the index in 
PLUGIN LIST +1...', or indeed if it is something else.


At this stage I'm unsure if the (many many) Plugin calls I'm seeing in 
the log (2;414) are being generated by 4D Internet Commands 
EX_IS_PROCESS_DYING or not... and whether this is having an effect on 
the 4D Remotes being disconnected or not...


When 4D produce a tool as useful as the DebugLog for helping developers 
solve very difficult issues, it would be really great if 4D would also 
publish all the information required by developers to read these logs 
(or better yet provide a good tool to do so).   ;-)  I would have 
thought that a 4D produced (and continually maintained and updated) 
DebugLog Parser and Analyser application would not only be of benefit to 
developers, but also 4D support staff


Cheers,
Allan Udy

Golden Micro Solutions Ltd, Blenheim, New Zealand
http://www.golden.co.nz

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: 4D Debug Log Reader - Plugin Commands

[Allan Udy via 4D_Tech]

Hi Justin,

Thanks for that extra info. I'll have to have a play around some more 
and try and work out what 4D is actually doing.


ATTENTION 4D:   It would be really useful if you would actually publish 
the details (somewhere easy to find) of how the DebugLogs determine the 
Plugin Command IDs


Allan



From: Justin Carr

>  
>  HI,
>  
>  A while back I got hold of the v15 '4D  Debug Log Reader' database in order to view some of4D's Low Level debugging Log files.  It helped me a lot at the time.Does anyone (the author?) know WHY  $vL_PluginID is initialised to 3 at the start of the loop through the external plugins?



That would be me. This was always a tricky piece of the puzzle. Unfortunately there was 
no way (that I could find) for determining which plugin was allocated which number in the 
debug logs. The best I could determine was that it seemed to load them in alphabetical 
order and it usually seemed to start from 3, although not always. I think there used to 
be two "plugins" that were built-in to4D  - I want to say one of them was the 
OLE Tools - not sure what the other one was. I deduced rightly or wrongly that4D  was 
allocating these numbers first. It's entirely possible that this has changed in more 
recent versions.

If it seems to be starting from one now, it would certainly be safe to change 
it in the code. You can also change the numbers in the front-end by 
double-clicking on them, but the log files would ned to be re-parsed after 
you've changed any numbers.




Cheers,
Allan Udy

Golden Micro Solutions Ltd, Blenheim, New Zealand
http://www.golden.co.nz

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

4D Debug Log Reader - Plugin Commands

[Allan Udy via 4D_Tech]

HI,

A while back I got hold of the v15 '4D Debug Log Reader' database in 
order to view some of 4D's Low Level debugging Log files.  It helped me 
a lot at the time.


I've still got the Read Me pdf but it doesn't say where this came from 
or who wrote it, and I've now forgotten.


The application has to parse the Plugins folder of the source database 
that you a're debugging, in order to correctly identify the actual 
command names used by the Plugins.


Having upgraded this to v16R4, I'm now having problems looking at the 
log files from the v16 application that we're debugging.


There's a method in the code called 'RSRC_Select' which basically goes 
through the plugin folder and parses all the commands:


$vL_NumPlugins:=Size of array($aT_Bundle)` How many .bundle Plugins 
are there


If ($vL_NumPlugins>0)

$vL_PluginID:=3 <-  HERE'S THE QUESTION -- WHY IS THIS 3

For ($vL_PluginIndex;1;$vL_NumPlugins)
If (RSRC_Parse 
($vT_Folder+$aT_Bundle{$vL_PluginIndex};$vL_PluginID))

$vL_PluginID:=$vL_PluginID+1
End if
End for
End if


Does anyone (the author?) know WHY  $vL_PluginID is initialised to 3 at 
the start of the loop through the external plugins?


This suggests to me that Plug 1 and 2 might be internal to 4D?

In the v16 Log files I'm trying to read, there are calls to plugin 
2;414  --- that is Plugin ID 2, but I have no idea what that plugid 
refers to.


Any ideas?


Cheers,
Allan Udy

Golden Micro Solutions Ltd, Blenheim, New Zealand
http://www.golden.co.nz

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: Numeric Array Variable Not Reset When Array Redefined

[Allan Udy via 4D_Tech]

Allan,

I went along for quite a while before realizing changing the size of the
array didn't clear it too.

I tend to use the array declaration commands to declare, once, and nothing else.
For "else", there is INSERT IN ARRAY, APPEND TO ARRAY, DELETE FROM ARRAY, CLEAR 
VARIABLE…


Hi Arnaud,

FYI following example using DELETE FROM ARRAY still doesn't clear the 
array variable. Thus it is important to use Clear Variable


ARRAY TEXT(aGrower;0)
APPEND TO ARRAY(aGrower;"One")
APPEND TO ARRAY(aGrower;"Two")
ALERT(String(aGrower))  // Result is "0"

aGrower:=2
ARRAY TEXT(aGrower;0)
ALERT(String(aGrower))  // Result is "2"

APPEND TO ARRAY(aGrower;"One")
APPEND TO ARRAY(aGrower;"Two")
aGrower:=2

DELETE FROM ARRAY(aGrower;1)
DELETE FROM ARRAY(aGrower;1)
ALERT(String(aGrower))  // Result is "2"


Cheers,
Allan Udy

Golden Micro Solutions Ltd, Blenheim, New Zealand
http://www.golden.co.nz

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Numeric Array Variable Not Reset When Array Redefined

[Allan Udy via 4D_Tech]

Hi All,

One for the newbies, or the oldies who like us didn't realise

Recently changed some code, which resulted in a runtime error for a 
client, and it took us a while to track it down.


As per the example code below, it appears that redefining an array 
variable and resetting its size it does NOT automatically reset the 
numeric value of the array variable.  You actually need to  use Clear 
Variable, or explicitly use aGrower:=0 in the code.   Otherwise if some 
other form code/script makes use of the aGrower variable (for example), 
before you have added more rows, then you'll get a runtime error:


ARRAY TEXT(aGrower;0)
APPEND TO ARRAY(aGrower;"One")
APPEND TO ARRAY(aGrower;"Two")
ALERT(String(aGrower))  // Result is "0"

aGrower:=2
ARRAY TEXT(aGrower;0)
ALERT(String(aGrower))   // Result is "2"

CLEAR VARIABLE(aGrower)
ARRAY TEXT(aGrower;0)
ALERT(String(aGrower))  // Result is "0"


I've tested this as far back as 4D v11 and the behaviour is the same.  
It seems that we just haven't run into the situation in our code before, 
where the array variable is used after having previously reset the array 
size to zero.


---

Cheers,
Allan Udy

Golden Micro Solutions Ltd, Blenheim, New Zealand
http://www.golden.co.nz

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

RE: Connection is broken, cannot receive request reply

[Allan Udy via 4D_Tech]

Hi David,

We've seen something similar in recent weeks.

Merged Server database running under Windows 2012 Server, problem seen 
with both 4D v16R3 and v16R4


Periodically, once every 18-36 hours the ten or more 4D Remote clients 
connected to the server lose contact with the server application. IN 
some cases there may be idle issues, but at least half a dozen of the 
users are using the database reasonably heavily on a continual basis 
throughout the day.


If the users quit the 4D Remote and then attempt to connect to the 
server again, they cannot make the connection. It appears that the 4D 
Server is no longer broadcasting its availability.


Interestingly enough the Web Server is still working perfectly well, 
even for brand new connections.


No spike in processes, cpu usage, or anything that even resembles a 
rouge / infinite process.


Only option is to quit the Server app and restart.

Customer is starting to get a bit grumpy about this and we're struggling 
to work out a solution to the problem.   :-(


Allan Udy


David Ringsmuth  wrote:


Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 11:46:01 -0600
Subject: RE: Connection is broken, cannot receive request reply

Alan,

SET DATABASE PARAMETER(54;4)

This is for testing, wanted to make sure 4D closed the connection, not any 
network resource. But alas something is closing it and 4D Remote is crashing 
because of it.

The crash occurs both after a long time of idle, and when the users are 
actively interacting in the application.

The SET DATABASE PARAMETER(14;1) AND SET DATABASE PARAMETER(13;1) seem to have 
made the idle error occur after a longer delay on our test network. But the 
error continues to occur both on our network, and on our client’s network.

We have not solved this problem. We plan to open a tech support case…

Thanks!
David Ringsmuth



Cheers,
Allan Udy

Golden Micro Solutions Ltd, Blenheim, New Zealand
http://www.golden.co.nz

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

SQL Fail On Windows

[Allan Udy via 4D_Tech]

Hi All,

Currently using the following example code from the Knowledge Base to 
determine the AutoIncrement status of a field:


C_LONGINT($1;$table_id_l)
C_LONGINT($2;$column_id_l)
C_BOOLEAN($0;$autoInc_b)

If (Count parameters>=2)
   $table_id_l:=$1
   $column_id_l:=$2
   Begin SQL
   SELECT AUTOINCREMENT
   FROM _USER_COLUMNS
   WHERE TABLE_ID = :$table_id_l
   AND COLUMN_ID = :$column_id_l
   INTO :$autoInc_b;
   End SQL

   $0:=$autoInc_b
End if


On my Mac's and Windows 10 machine it operates fine.  On our clients 
Windows machines we get an error about $table_id_l not being defined.


We haven't used SQL much... is there some underlying software that needs 
to be installed on a Windows machine to make it work correctly?


Cheers
Allan
**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Clients 'Disconnecting' From Server on Quit

[Allan Udy via 4D_Tech]

Hi All,

Have a client whose database Client apps (v16R4) have recently started 
to display the 'standard' 4D error dialog



The connection for this process has been disrupted or the connection 
couldn't be established.


A serious error occurred while a request was being sent to the server. 
You should quit or restart the database as soon as possible.



This is shown for about 2-3 seconds and then the merged client app 
continues to quit normally. Under recent Windows OS.



A Client application running on the same machine as the Server app does 
NOT show this dialog.



Anyone else seen this sort of behaviour in recent version of Windows or 4D?

Our customer is convinced that there's a problem with the app or 
datafile.  While we're more of the opinion that there's a network issue 
going on which is also affecting performance.


Anyone else have any opinion son what might cuase this error dialog to 
display at Quit time?


Cheers,
Allan Udy

Golden Micro Solutions Ltd, Blenheim, New Zealand
http://www.golden.co.nz

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

How do you deal with SSL Private key Files?

[Allan Udy via 4D_Tech]

Hi all,

We have a client who runs a merged Server application, with web server 
functionality.


We're now in the process of sorting out a SSL connection with this 
application as they're now requesting data back from their Customers 
when they log in via the web interface.


We regularly update the database structure by providing a new, merged 
Server application, and this is uploaded to the client to install via a 
standard non secure ftp upload.


To those of you who have similar setups - how do you deal with the 
Private Key files?


Presumably it is a very BAD idea for us to get that file from the 
client, install it in our development copy of the structure, compile, 
merge, and then upload over a potentially insecure connection.


We could get the local IT manage to manually copy the relevant files to 
the Server Database folder of the new version every time an update is 
released, but we'd rather try and develop an automated solution.


Any suggestions?


Cheers,
Allan Udy

Golden Micro Solutions Ltd, Blenheim, New Zealand
http://www.golden.co.nz

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Database Settings Publishing Info IP Address - Tip

[Allan Udy via 4D_Tech]

Here's another tip for the archives...

We have one client running a web server db under 4D v14.4. We're working 
at moving this to v16 in the very near future, but wanted to do a few 
tidy up's in v14 before we started the update process.


Things went badly and suddenly no one could connect to the web server.  :-(

After many hours of immense frustration trying to solve this we found 
that the following setting


  Database Settings >  Web >  Configuration >  Publishing Info >  
IP Address:


in the current source was now blank (i.e. the popup had nothing selected).

In the source on which the previous build was based, the setting was :   
   IP Address: All


Changes the setting to ALL in the current soutrce, and voila, it works 
perfectly as advertised!


We suspect that a minor upgrade from v14.4 to v14.5 between releasing 
these two versions of the app may have reset that setting somehow.


Anyway, the story is, if you have a web server app that stops working 
for some reason, and EVEN IF your browser will still connect to the 
server via a local loop-back (e.g. 127.0.0.1) MAKE sure that the Web 
Database Settings are as they should be.


Hope this saves someone else a few hours

Cheers,
Allan Udy

Golden Micro Solutions Ltd, Blenheim, New Zealand
http://www.golden.co.nz

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Resetting The Explorer Window - Tip

[Allan Udy via 4D_Tech]

Hi All,

Here's a quick tip if you suddenly loose the buttons at the bottom of 
your Explorer window, as I did this afternoon -- I couldn't view method 
Comments  (no Preview/Comments button), nor could I Add [+] or Delete 
[-] methods etc -- those options were just not available to me.


What to do when your development environment goes belly up... and when a 
computer restart, software restart, and software reinstall don't solve 
the problem?


1. Close the Explorer window

2. Hold the Shift key down, and

3. Select the menu item:   Design >  Explorer >  Methods

This has the effect of 'resetting' the size and location of the Explorer 
window, and thankfully, making the buttons at the bottom of the screen 
'magically' reappear.


Spent over half an hour trying to find any info about this, and trying 
to work out where my buttons and options had disappeared to.  Found the 
solution above by luck, although you could say it was found because of 
nearly thirty years of experience ;-)


Hope this helps someone else sometime.  Still don't know where my 
buttons went, or why


Cheers,
Allan Udy

Golden Micro Solutions Ltd, Blenheim, New Zealand
http://www.golden.co.nz






Cheers,
Allan Udy

Golden Micro Solutions Ltd, Blenheim, New Zealand
http://www.golden.co.nz

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Indian developers?

[Allan Udy via 4D_Tech]

Hi all,

Are there any 4D developers, resident in India, lurking on this list?

If you are one, or know of one, please PM me at the email address below.

I'm not looking for anyone to do any development work, but potentially 
looking for someone to help support an application.


Cheers,
Allan Udy   -- al...@golden.co.nz

Golden Micro Solutions Ltd, Blenheim, New Zealand
http://www.golden.co.nz

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: Is 'DB4D Index builder' process is running on server

[Allan Udy via 4D_Tech]

Hi Kirk,

Unfortunately on Server v15R5, that process ('DB4D Index builder') is 
ALWAYS running, so using Count taks etc to see if tits there doesn't work.


Ideally what we need to be able to do is use Process Properties to find 
the 'Duration' of the 'DB4D Index builder' and then compare it with the 
last know 'Duration, which would give us some idea of whether it is/has 
been running or not.


Unfortunately the 'DB4D Index builder' process on the server is one of 
several that have a non-unique Process No of '0'.  :-(




Kirk Brookswrote:


I haven't tried to get that process name specifically but you can make a
function that uses Count tasks to loop through all processes and return
$0=true if it's there. If you set the Execute on server attribute
(property?) for the method then you're looking at the processes on the
server.

On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 1:26 AM, Allan Udy via 4D_Tech<4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
wrote:

>  Anyone know of a way to determine if the 'DB4D Index builder' process is
>  actually executing on the server?
>



Cheers,
Allan Udy

Golden Micro Solutions Ltd, Blenheim, New Zealand
http://www.golden.co.nz<http://www.golden.co.nz>

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

RE: Is 'DB4D Index builder' process is running on server

[Allan Udy via 4D_Tech]

Hi Tim,

Thanks -- have just checked that, it seems the index builder dialog box 
doesn't have a title.  :-(



Timothy Penner wrote


The 'DB4D  Index builder' process on the server has a Num of '0', so not sure 
that a call to PROCESS PROPERTIES is useful in this case

Instead of using the process commands - maybe you could use the WINDOW LIST 
command and then call GET WINDOW TITLE for each window?
(is there a title on that window?)
-Tim



Cheers,
Allan Udy

Golden Micro Solutions Ltd, Blenheim, New Zealand
http://www.golden.co.nz

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Is 'DB4D Index builder' process is running on server

[Allan Udy via 4D_Tech]

Hi,

Anyone know of a way to determine if the 'DB4D Index builder' process is 
actually executing on the server?


Have a large partial table deletion to do, and then after the records 
are deleted, need to do some other stuff to the table.


To improve performance I'm bracketing the Delete Selection with calls to 
Pause Index and then Resume Index, and I'd rather know that the 
-reindexing (index updating) process was completed before I move on to 
the next part of the process.


The 'DB4D Index builder' process on the server has a Num of '0', so not 
sure that a call to PROCESS PROPERTIES is useful in this case


Any thoughts welcomed.
Cheers,
Allan Udy

Golden Micro Solutions Ltd, Blenheim, New Zealand
http://www.golden.co.nz

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**