Re: Find in field

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

It sounds like you have a field or fields that require a unique value. 

It also sounds like you are looking for any records that have a value. 

If the two records in the stated 2 processes, return the same Record ID, then 
of course you are getting the same number, and therefore the same key. This 
cannot occur as the field is flagged to be unique.

This is what I can make sense of without seeing some code. 

Jody Bevan



> On Jul 30, 2024, at 03:03, stardata.info via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> I use the command " Find in field " for obtain a unique id during a record 
> creation during TRANSACTION .
> I have two process that use this command into transaction.
> Process1 obtain a unique id and is in trasaction, the id is 1
> Process2 request an id with " Find in field " and have the same id number, 
> and in SAVE RECORD have an error of duplicate key.
> 
> How i can do to solve this case?
> 
> Thanks
> **
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Re: FTP_GetDirList

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Ferdinando:

Can you provide to us the values in each of the variables that are going into 
FTP_GetDirList?


Jody Bevan



> On Jul 23, 2024, at 04:44, stardata.info via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> I use 4D v19 on Windows, with command FTP_GetDirList i have an error 10064
> 
> $vErr:=FTP_GetDirList(vFTP_ID; $vDir; $aNomeFile; $aDimFile; $aTipoFile; 
> $aDataModFile; $aOraModFile)
> 
> Someone know the reason?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> /*Ferdinando*/
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Re: Client communication

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Hello Ferdinando:

This list is really not used anymore.

I would recommend that you go to: 

4D.com 

Then click on Developer center at the top of the window. Then from there click 
on 4D Forum. This is a very much improved system for asking questions, getting 
answers, and searching for other solutions.

I do not know if you need to be a partner to access this site or not. I do not 
think so as sometimes when I have not logged in some things are not available.

Hope this helps.


Jody Bevan



> On Mar 4, 2024, at 09:27, stardata.info via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> I need to share information from processes running on the server and clients
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Ferdinando
> 
> Il 04/03/2024 16:14, ya...@kutlubilisim.com.tr ha scritto:
>> Hi Ferdinando,
>> 
>> Do you mean sharing informatiom among processes belong to same client 
>> connection or sharing information between different clients?
>> 
>> BR.
>> 
>> --
>> Ali Yakup Durşen
>> Kutlu Bilişim  Ltd
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: 4D_Tech <4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com> On Behalf Of stardata.info via 
>> 4D_Tech
>> Sent: Monday, March 4, 2024 6:02 PM
>> To: 4d_tech@lists.4d.com; 4d_tech-requ...@lists.4d.com
>> Cc: stardata.info 
>> Subject: Client communication
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I use 4D V16 on window.
>> 
>> I need to share informations from the process executed on server and the 
>> clients.
>> 
>> The process executed on server, put the informations into some interprocess 
>> array.
>> 
>> Someone know how i can do?
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> Ferdinando
>> 
>> **
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Re: 4D <-> Development

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Dave:

Thank you so much for that excellent description of the path you took. Though 
it is all hard work ahead doing it, as you point out, it will likely help 
getting my head wrapped around the new 4D language. For ADE (Argus Development 
Environment) I had the ADE create the documentation framework automatically for 
Users, Admins, and Developers. As my wife points out, I need to have the 
documentation on the web to be taken seriously today. So whether that is the 
first project I do, or the one for a current client I think that you have 
helped me make up my mind. I like that you even described the tools you are 
using, AND how you learned the languages.

I really liked Lightening, and Aparajita’s Active4D. They fit very nicely in 
with 4D. I think though I will try to go the harder route in the anticipation 
that it will take me longer, but will stand the test of time.

Thanks again for after a post so long ago that you thought to respond.

Jody 

> On Jan 25, 2022, at 16:06, Dave Nasralla via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Jody,
> 
> Well, I started completely from scratch (regarding frontend
> development) about 6 months ago. I'd been avoiding it and finally had
> a situation where it was needed.
> I don't know if this is the best route, but it's the one I took.
> 
> Javascript:
> I choose scrimba.com for learning HTML, CSS, and Javascript. It's a
> remarkable platform for learning. The lessons are short and you can
> pause the lesson and insert your cursor into the code they are
> demoing, try stuff, then hit play and the code reverts. They have a
> frontend developer's path - I did the first 15-20% and got what I
> needed to get my project going. As I started to learn javascript I
> thought "This looks a lot like the direction 4D is headed"
> 
> Framework:
> What I learned about frameworks, is that you need to pick one that is
> going to be supported. In scrimba, they picked REACT because they say
> it is maintained by Facebook. I did not take the time to learn REACT
> because my project was for mobile devices and I got some starter code
> from a developer that used jQuery Mobile. Of course, jQuery Mobile
> stopped development and maintenance back in Oct, but it's good enough
> to get me going. (Hence, pay attention to the framework you learn!)
> jQuery itself may have more longevity - I don't know.
> 
> Software:
> Web Browers have AMAZING developer tools right in the browser. I chose
> Chrome. Just hit F12 (mac) and BAM, you have a full debugger. You can
> trace your Javascript, set break points, force the cache to always
> load from the server (key to testing), see all your variables. Pretty
> cool!
> 
> Visual Studio Code (mac)
> Pretty powerful editor. It has features I wish 4D had like:
> - option-shift-down arrow: will instantly duplicate your line to the line 
> below
> - option-click: you can put multiple cursors on the same document.
> You can put 6 cursors in six places and when you type you type (or
> delete) in all six places at the same time.
> - support for Emmet. As best I can tell it's a standard set of macros
> for development. Remarkably powerful. https://emmet.io/
> 
> Communicating with 4D:
> I chose JSON. It seems like a format both Javascript and 4D like. They
> literally have the same commands for converting objects to JSON and
> back.  On the web page I create an object in Javascript with all the
> data I am sending to 4D (including signon info, tokens, anything). You
> stringify it and send it to 4D with a Post command. I send it via
> 4DAction. The Object shows up directly in the 4D method and you parse
> it to a 4D Object. I rolled my own token system so I can know if the
> "user" is authorized for the method.  I essentially created an API for
> my app. The nice thing is that it completely separates 4D from the
> HTML. The advantage is I don't have to rebuild my 4D application to
> update the interface - since the interface is just HTML and Javascript
> files. If our web guy needs info, I just create a method for him that
> returns what he needs.
> 
> The biggest leap for me in making calls from Javascript is that the
> calls should be asynchronous (synchronous calls have been deprecated
> in general because they mess with the web users experience). This
> means that before you make a call to 4D from a web page, you tell
> Javascript which function will (if it ever gets a response) run when
> the browser gets a reply. You make the call and then the webpage
> continues as if nothing happened.
> 
> Good luck! I'll be curious which way you decide to go!
> 
> dave
> -- 
> David Nasralla
> Clean Air Engineering
> 
> 
> On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 11:17 A

4D <-> Development

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

I have asked a similar question over on the FORUM, and got two responses. I 
know more people than two have developed web pages and 4D applications working 
together.

I really need to get into designing both. 

- The advantage I have is that I am starting from scratch with web development 
and 4D and the web. The 4D database linked over the web that I personally 
developed with HTML back in the early 90s are way out of date. I want to learn 
the new way of working, because that will future proof my skills, and the 
sites/Applications I develop. 

- The disadvantage I have is that I am starting from scratch.

OK, having said that what tools do you recommend (and why)? There are so many 
web development tools, and so many web developers that want to gobble up the 
Database application behind it all (thus my work) as they ‘can do it all’. 

- I have seen talk about Angular, AngularJS, React ( Frameworks - correct).
- There are new tools in 4D since back in the early 90s obviously. 
- Yes, REST is important, but what does that mean.

A white paper from 4D on 4D v19 and the web and working together would be very 
nice to have.

The web sites I developed way back then, everything was in 4D. I wrote all the 
static HTML and stored, and sent it out from 4D. That was then, but from what I 
understand now things can work better as the WebServer itself can interpret the 
JavaScript to execute code there - thus being faster. Of course scalability is 
important to. No use using a tool that cannot scale. I remember the first time 
I installed at a site with 150 concurrent users, and a 20 x 300 foot chart room 
that would be put into our system along with all new data. That scared me, but 
4D 2004 did it.

Any comments, thoughts, warnings, or drop by and say hello are all appreciated.

Thanks

Jody Bevan
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Great new documentation on file/folder architecture in v19 for projects

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Now that I am in the office I can now pass this along for any that are 
interested and couldn’t find the new documentation and search for it. This page 
is 3 clicks into the new documentation.

https://developer.4d.com/docs/en/Project/architecture.html 


Jody
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Re: 4D Default Folder Structure

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

You obviously have a problem. I will humor you and ensure to not post here ever 
again. That of course should please you. Only your thoughts are important and 
worthy of this bandwidth. 

Going all the way back to the 4D days on Compuserve I have never seen someone 
be so rude to another 4D developer.

Amazing. You win first prize.

Jody

> On Jun 22, 2021, at 07:52, Jörg Knebel via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On 22 /06 /2021, at 23:47, Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Jody
> 
> I’m proud of you!
> **
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Re: 4D Default Folder Structure

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Jorg. 

So what dis I do to you that you want to take pot shots. Makes you look rather 
petty.

My point was to congratulate 4D on an excellent section of their documentation. 

I do not always do that.

Yet you want to make a petty comment. Grow up!

Jody

> On Jun 22, 2021, at 07:29, Jörg Knebel via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On 22 /06 /2021, at 23:20, Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> If I was I…
> 
> Oha, someone is himself…
> 
> Get better mate!
> 
> 
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Re: 4D Default Folder Structure

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Not at my computer so no answer now. If I was I would just copy the description 
on this in the new manual from 4D. Best description in 30 years on this topic.

Jody

> On Jun 22, 2021, at 06:25, Jörg Knebel via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> G’day All,
> 
> How does the default folder structure has to look like in Binary and Project 
> mode?
> 
> Where are the DEFAULT locations of the data-file, the PlugIns-folder and the 
> Component-Folder?
> 
> What about the Active4D-Folders, in case Active4D is used?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Cheers
> Jörg
> 
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Re: 4D scanning

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

David:

Thanks for that snip of code. Hopefully someone in the know will be able to let 
us know about the MacOS.

Thanks

Jody Bevan

> On Jun 21, 2021, at 4:20 AM, David Samson via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I don't know about Macs but on a PC you don't need a plugin for simple
> scanning. I use
> 
> I use a free program called NAPS2 which has proven to be very reliable over
> the years. I scan the document into a known folder and retrieve it from
> there and can then do what I want with it.
> 
> The code is simply the following:
> 
> SET ENVIRONMENT VARIABLE("_4D_OPTION_HIDE_CONSOLE";"true")
> 
> cDTPath:=System folder(Desktop)
> cDTPath:=cDTPath+Char(92)+"4DScan"+Char(92)
> cDTPath:=PATH_Fix (cDTPath)
> 
> If (Test path name(cDTPath)#Is a folder)
>CREATE FOLDER(cDTPath)
> Else
>DOCUMENT LIST(cDTPath;acOldDocs)
>For ($old;1;Size of array(acOldDocs))
>  DELETE DOCUMENT(cDTPath+acOldDocs{$old})
>End for
> End if
> 
> cDTPath:=cDTPath+Char(92)+"ScannedPI"+Generate UUID+".pdf"
> cDTPath:=PATH_Fix (cDTPath)
> LAUNCH EXTERNAL PROCESS("C:\\Program Files (x86)\\nAPS2\\naps2.console
> -o"+cDTPath)
> 
> All you need to do in setting up NAPS2 is to create a profile which tells
> it which scanner to use.
> 
> HTH
> David
> 
> 
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2021 16:54:47 +0100
>> From: Peter Mew 
>> To: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
>> Subject: 4D scanning
>> Message-ID:
>><
>> cao0ooqqc_ribzifseq7h6wsm-u+fejteuww26xnybpme5ax...@mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>> 
>> Hi
>> I havent done any of this for a while so Im a bit! rusty.
>> I looking to download Miyakos twain plug in, Where do I find it? or is
>> there a better plugin that will capture scans and work with 4D v13 mac and
>> PC preferably free
>> thanks
>> -pm
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: pointer not properly initialized in 4DPop XLIFF

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Hi Ernie!

Good to see you still pounding the keys in 4D.
Sorry I do not have the answer to your question. We wrote our own XLIFF tools, 
as we needed this before 4D Pop XLIFF was available. I am turning all my tools 
that I use into a component (ADE) that people can drop into their database to 
write it and then pull it out to deliver it. There will also a component with a 
large method library of code that I use. This one you leave in with your code. 
My ADE will be using all those methods as well.

Creole - interesting. I suppose I could have some use for that. I suspect 
though that the Creole has a lot of difference in each country (dialect).

Take care. I hope you get a solution soon.

Jody (Belize)

> On Apr 6, 2021, at 4:01 PM, eachilgers via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Hi all, 
> 
> I am working with 4D v15 32 bit, mac (10.13.6) and using the 4D Pop XLIFF 
> components to try out how this component will help me implement translation 
> file xliff from english to creole. 
> I started using the component, created a xlf file in the Resource folder then 
> only added 5 resource numbers 22001 — 22005 and quit the application. 
> 
> Now when I startup the 4D program I am working on and I try to open the POP 
> XLIFF from it’s menu I get an error and get an empty window. 
> 
> error is: 
> Error when executing the method “EDITOR_LOAD_FILE (4DPop XLIFF) at line 
> number 27
> The ponter is not properly initialized.
> 
> 
> How can I fix this problem and continue working using this component.  At the 
> moment I am stuck. 
> 
> Some tips would be very welcome.  
> 
> Greetings
> 
> ernie hilgers(aruba)

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Re: Looking to Replace Specific Win32API Commands to enable smooth upgrade to v17

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Ken:

The printer / printing controls in 4D v17 have improved greatly. It takes work, 
but you can build a whole interface around printer selection etc. You can save 
values and then the user can skip by it all and go to their preferred printers. 
This can be done by user, or computer (at least we built it that way).

Jody

> On Apr 4, 2021, at 8:24 PM, Ken Eyring via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Thank you Chip!
> 
> Unfortunately, I tried to download what I thought was the latest version of 
> Win32API and it was compiled back in Nov 7, 2019 at 12:13p.
> 
> That version does not work with v17.3HF2 32-bit Client (with a 64-bit 
> server).  At least on my end it doesn't.
> 
> I also thought I saw someone said Orchard Software was not going to update 
> the Win32API to work with v17... which is why I'm looking for an alternative.
> 
> I'll have to take a look at the internal 4D Window commands and see what it 
> takes to convert over the Win32API code to the 4D native code.
> 
> I was hoping not to have to do that... as my first look indicates it may take 
> some time to get things working as they were with the Win32API plugin.
> 
> Thank you for your thoughts!
> Ken
> 

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Re: Copy and Paste

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Ferdinando:

Hmmm, ok, you were not talking about using 4D commands to copy and paste, but 
rather the menu items (and their keyboard shortcuts) that are not working.

Not had this happen. 

Can you just type in the method editor that you are trying to copy or paste in?

Dumb question (yes), but I experienced that frustration today because the 
dialog someone had programmed in was a stay in the front dialog. I changed the 
window type of the dialog to permit the move to another window (code window).

That is all I got for you… I think.

Jody

> On Mar 23, 2021, at 1:42 PM, stardata.info via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Jody,
> 
> The problem is Copy and Past functions that after sometimes stop to work in 
> method editor.
> 
> So is not possible to Copy and Paste the rows of codes in 4D editor.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Ferdinando
> 
>> Il 23/03/2021 20:00, 4d_tech-requ...@lists.4d.com ha scritto:
>>> Ferdinando:
>>> 
>>> If you are talking about using the command in the language to to this then 
>>> - yes that is a known problem. Very frustrating indeed.
>>> 
>>> Here is what we did just before each copy or paste and then it always 
>>> worked.
>>> 
>>> GET WINDOW RECT($vL_WinLeftSide; $vL_WinTopSide; $vL_WinRightSide; 
>>> $vL_WinBottomSide; $vL_WindowRef)
>>> SET WINDOW RECT($vL_WinLeftSide; $vL_WinTopSide; $vL_WinRightSide; 
>>> $vL_WinBottomSide; $vL_WindowRef)
>>> 
>>> Hope this helps you out.
>>> 
>>> Jody Bevan
>>> 
 On Mar 23, 2021, at 10:56 AM, stardata.info via 
 4D_Tech<4d_tech@lists.4d.com>  wrote:
 
 Hi All,
 
 Form some days in my method editor of 4D V16 on Windows, sometimes the 
 commands Copy and Paste not work.
 
 For solve i need to restart windows
 
 Someone know the solution?
 
 Thanks
 
 /Ferdinando/
 
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Re: Copy and Paste

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Ferdinando:

If you are talking about using the command in the language to to this then - 
yes that is a known problem. Very frustrating indeed.

Here is what we did just before each copy or paste and then it always worked.

GET WINDOW RECT($vL_WinLeftSide; $vL_WinTopSide; $vL_WinRightSide; 
$vL_WinBottomSide; $vL_WindowRef)
SET WINDOW RECT($vL_WinLeftSide; $vL_WinTopSide; $vL_WinRightSide; 
$vL_WinBottomSide; $vL_WindowRef)

Hope this helps you out.

Jody Bevan

> On Mar 23, 2021, at 10:56 AM, stardata.info via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> Form some days in my method editor of 4D V16 on Windows, sometimes the 
> commands Copy and Paste not work.
> 
> For solve i need to restart windows
> 
> Someone know the solution?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> /Ferdinando/
> 

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Re: Open a v17 data file when Structure is unknown

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

re: 4D thought through all of this with the v11 data file format. They wanted 
to make it super hard to do exactly what you are trying to do — take a data 
file that you have no structure file for and then reverse engineer out the 
structure so that you can extract the data. 

Yup, used that method a couple of times to export a client’s data out of a data 
file they obviously owned, and brought it into our system. Took time, but 
worked perfectly.

Jody

> On Jun 6, 2019, at 1:20 PM, Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> 

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Experienced 4D Programmer and other skills available

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

To those listing on the Nug…

I am looking for up to 80% time work. I need to be able to work remotely. 

Experience:

Programming:
Worked with all version of 4D from 2.0.11 to v18R5.
Worked with all the major plugins
Developed many custom one off applications for clients since I started in 4D 
decades ago.
Developed for both MacOS and Windows.
CEO that oversaw development, and wrote code for 2 decades for a Medical 
application sold around the world.
Set Development standards of code, designed procedures for development / bug 
fixing / production server environments for JonokeMed for ongoing work for 
thousands of users.
Programmed a Jonoke business application that managed all aspects of our 
business. 

Planning:
Designed and planned all implementations of multi-user / multi-site 
implementation of JonokeMed software. This included servers / backups / mirrors 
/ networks, etc. We were running multi-site, 150 user sites with 4D 2004. 

Documentation:
Set standards for documentation
Assembled team of documentation writers, trained, and oversaw production of 
documentation.
Documentation was on paper, within the application, videos (YouTube), and 
videos available to view from within JonokeMed.

End User Training:
Set standards for training, designed training program for various user types
Performed training, and trained others to train.

ISO 9001:2000 Certification
Took Jonoke Software Development Inc through whole ISO certification process.


Retired from Jonoke Software Development Inc in Oct 2013. I took 2 years off 
from all things programming. Then got back into 4D programming in 2015 using 
the latest tools. With my son we developed from the ground up a new Shell, and 
then a new Development Environment within 4D. Summit 2018 presentation material 
available on request. Now working in 4D v18R5 to develop more of Development 
Environment using the latest version and latest ways of doing things in 4D.

Looking for:

Work that I can do remotely. Looking for work that will take anywhere up to 80% 
of my time. The work can be full time for a few months at a time. I have a 
varied set of skills and experience that can be drawn upon to assist your 
company achieve its goals. The work can be specific projects, or on going work.

Jody Bevan
Argus Production Inc.
+1 587-487-6120
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Re: PING of life...

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

I count as an old timer. 

Count me in.

Jody Bevan

> On Jan 13, 2021, at 6:32 AM, Jörg Knebel via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> G’day,
> 
> Are here still enough dinosaur/old timers present to have some decent 
> discussions without that white noise and smart-arse newbies in the forum?
> 
> I’m following the lead of my neighbour David Adams and don’t participate in 
> the forum any more.
> 
> Question is, are there other oldies willing to participate WITHOUT feeding 
> anything into the forum(s) following the slogan “What happen in/on iNUG stays 
> in/on iNUG”?
> 
> 
> Cheers
> Jörg
> 
> **
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Planned Summit 2020 Presentation

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

I was scheduled to present the Argus Development Environment addition for 4D at 
the Chicago Summit. Unfortunately it was canceled. Though I worked lots to 
create the digital presentation I could not meet the deadline to have it up. On 
our farm, I changed the animal breeding schedule to have them give birth after 
the Summit. So my time was very limited after the Summit to work on a video 
Conference.

Sadly the decision was made that without a video presentation my Summit 
Presentation was not to see the light of developers.

I thought it might be of interest to others to see the demo database, 
Presentation notes, and Keynote that I made for the presentation. If you are 
interested send me you Name, and E-Mail address and I will be pleased to send 
it to you.

The presentation’s intention is to show how at ARGUS we have used the 4D 
language to create tools to improve the speed of our coding, to improve the 
quality of our code, improve the management of our projects, and prove to a 
higher degree the quality of our code. This is all done using 4D language code 
– nothing else. These are issues that every programmer should be concerned 
about, and want to continually improve. This is a tool that we now use for all 
our projects. As we use it, we get more ideas and add more things to the ADE 
tool. We did this using versions 4D v16 and v17. There are features already in 
v18, that we are looking at implement in ADE that will enhance this even more.

You can contact me directly at jody.be...@gmail.com 

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Re: barcode

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Is there a problem with using a font? Just asking as that is what I am doing. 
Seems to work great.
The font is free, so cost is not an issue.

Thanks

Jody


> On Mar 18, 2020, at 4:53 AM, stardata.info via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> Someone know how print bar codes in 4D?
> Now i use a font.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> /Ferdinando/
> 

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Re: Active Listbox/Form while listbox dynamically built

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

John:

Jeremy is suggesting what I have used. I have a similar but slightly different 
update of the data displayed in a listbox that needs to occur throughout the 
time it is in use. The Call Worker and Call Form is what I have used. It is 
easier to do than the type of code we used to have to write to do this kind of 
thing. It is also more efficient as it can run on a different core.

Jody

> On Mar 8, 2020, at 12:38 PM, John J Foster via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> 4D v17 R5 (Mac and Windows single user standalone)
> 
> I have a list box that needs to be built and available before the calculation 
> is complete. In this case I have some searches looking for particular 
> conditions and when found add them to the listbox. They could easily take a 
> few seconds to I’m guessing a  minute or more. The searching could span 50-60 
> sub searches within a 100 years of daily data (Think daily stock market data 
> but it’s not for the stock market).
> 
> So I would like a strategy:
> 
> - so that list box remains available as it’s being built.
> 
> - the screen is not frozen as it’s being built.
> 
> - The list box fills as each row is found/added and can be seen rebuilding. 
> 
> I’ve seen this kind of thing in a windows app (not 4D) and I’d like to 
> emulate the behavior.
> 
> I need a strategy I’m guessing that involves another process which knows how 
> to communicate back to this form/listbox. Is this where workers could be 
> helpful?
> 
> Does anyone have some snippets of code I could see to visualize the process?
> 
> Appreciate,
> John…
> 

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Re: 64-Bit Quick Report related fields

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Doug I so agree with you about forced, breaking upgrades. Apple OS upgrades 
causes us so many headaches over the years with their policy of breaking 
things. Trying to have a widely distributed product running on both OSes, and 
with forced enhancements and upgrades by government was the bane of my 
existence. 

Jody

> On Mar 6, 2020, at 10:21 AM, Doug Hall via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> I worded my statement badly. I should have said, "Because Catalina is
> pre-installed on new equipment..." I hate forced, breaking upgrades.
> 
> Doug
> 
> On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 10:13 PM Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech <
> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

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Re: 64-Bit Quick Report related fields

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Doug & Tim:

I thought it was only me not understanding things again.

What I ended up doing was building my own ‘Report Editor’, where I presented 
the tables and field for the users.

Jody Bevan

Jody Bevan
Developer



Argus Productions Inc. 




> On Mar 5, 2020, at 4:45 PM, Doug Hall via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> WOW. It actually does work to use a formula, but that SUCKS as far as user
> interfaces go. It gives you the interface you'd expect (for selecting
> related tables/all tables) in the formula editor. As long as field names
> resolve properly, it should work. But, YUCK!
> 
> On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 2:53 PM Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> On Mar 5, 2020, at 2:34 PM, Doug Hall wrote:
>> 
>>> A few weeks ago, we switched to 4D v17 (64-Bit) so that our users could
>> run
>>> Catalina. Today, a user showed me that you can't dig more than one table
>>> away from the current table, in the new 64-bit Quick Report Editor. Are
>> we
>>> missing something, or is there a way around this?
>> 
>> My users noticed it too. 4D needs to fix this in a future version.
>> 
>> You can try doing calculated column and manually entering in the related
>> field reference. It think that will work. But it’s a lot of work for the
>> user compared to just selected a field from the field list.
>> 
>> Tim
>> 
>> *
>> Tim Nevels
>> Innovative Solutions
>> 785-749-3444
>> timnev...@mac.com
>> *
>> 
>> **
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Re: Multi-Select Dropdown Menu

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Doug:

Many years ago we recognized a few limitations of popups. Therefore over about 
a year we reworked our popup code, and also the interface that indicates a 
popup.

The first thing we did was we never used a popup object built in by 4D. We 
created our own object that our user base learned was a popup. Then we could 
use an invisible button over top of the custom graphic. Therefore in the button 
we could decide what we wanted for the specific interface at that site, for 
that user, for that specific item.

Doing this then as Keisuke Miyako says, you could present a multi-select 
listbox to what the user thinks of as a specialized popup.


> On Mar 4, 2020, at 6:28 PM, Douglas von Roeder via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> I’d like to create a UI that supports selecting multiple values without the
> menu closing.
> 
> With the exception of using a web area, is there anyway to do this in 4D?
> 
> --
> Douglas von Roeder
> 949-910-4084
> **
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Re: Here's a great Mac App for testing and consuming REST services

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Thanks Dave Nasralla and Keisuke Miyako for these recommendations. 

Jody Beva

> On Mar 4, 2020, at 12:37 AM, Dave Nasralla via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
>  JSON Editor 

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Re: 4D over different platforms

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Ferdinando:

There are a multitude of development environments out there to choose from. 
Sometimes for different needs some should be excluded. If you want 4D itself to 
run on MacOS, Windows, iOS, and Android then 4D is not the solution. If however 
you want to run on all those platforms you can use multiple solutions that 
connect to a 4D database to achieve it.

That is the reality of it. FileMaker is not a 4D. So many things that FileMaker 
cannot do that 4D does very well. Isn’t choice wonderful. we all get to choose 
which tool(s) we will use. FileMaker has its strengths that might make you 
choose it for your development tool.

Jody Bevan
Argus Productions Inc.

> On Feb 25, 2020, at 4:58 PM, stardata.info via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> I've seen a File Maker application that can be used in iOs and Windows and in 
> all devices...
> 
> /Ferdinando/
> 
> 

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Re: Post Key

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Tim:

Thanks for the detailed code on getting this done. I will use that for now. 
When I get time I should be able to write the same type of thing for Windows. 
When I do, I will send it to you. 

Nice thing is with multiple tools, one can often get done what one cannot do 
with ‘plain’ 4D. We have used AppleScript before. I sometimes get tunnel vision 
and only think 4D.

Thanks again Tim.

Jody Bevan

> On Feb 19, 2020, at 2:33 PM, Bernd Fröhlich via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> Koen Van Hooreweghe:
> 
>> You can set the standard action of the button to 'userMode'. This should do 
>> the trick imho.
> 
> And if that does not work (IIRC it was broken in some version) then put
> 
> METHOD OPEN PATH("SomeMethod")
> 
> in the buttonscript as a workaround. 
> 
> Greetings from Germany,
> Bernd Fröhlich
> **
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Post Key

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

I want to let the Administrator / Designer in a compiled database be able to 
launch the Runtime Explorer without having to remember the keyboard shortcut to 
do this. 

The way I was thinking of doing this was a button on screen they click on that 
would post the keyboard shortcuts for the runtime explorer. For example on the 
MacOS doing the following:

If (Is macOS)   
POST KEY(-101;Shift key bit+Command key bit)
End if

or use

POST KEY(-101;Shift key Mask+Command key mask)

This does not seem to work. Where is my thinking wrong?

Thanks

Jody
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Re: Runtime Explorer

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Thanks Jeff:

I do have a developer palette, so I will do that. Should have thought of that - 
easy solution. Then I can easily switch back when needed.

Jody

> On Feb 1, 2020, at 6:22 PM, Jeffrey Kain via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> You can call CHANGE CURRENT USER on the fly - maybe add a button to your 
> developer palette if you have one, or a button or menu command somewhere in 
> your UI that only you have access to - and do a quick switch to Designer as 
> you need it.  I do the same thing for OPEN ADMINISTRATION WINDOW.

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Re: Runtime Explorer

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Thanks Miyako. That will be perfect in v18. I am reading through the manuals 
from front to back so hopefully I will find all the good nuggets. 

> On Feb 1, 2020, at 4:59 PM, Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> v17
> 
> In password-protected databases, only the Designer and Administrator have 
> access to the Runtime Explorer window.
> 
> https://doc.4d.com/4Dv17/4D/17.3/Access-to-the-Runtime-Explorer.300-4639848.en.html
> 
> v18 (minor change, the privilege is expanded to group)
> 
> Design and Runtime Explorer Access: Gives the specified group the ability to 
> enter the Design environment of the database and to display the Runtime 
> Explorer.
> Note that:
> 
> https://doc.4d.com/4Dv18/4D/18/Security-page.300-4575477.en.html
> 
> 2020/02/02 6:33、Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com<mailto:4d_tech@lists.4d.com>>のメール:
> Am I missing something?
> 

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Runtime Explorer

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

I would like to use the Runtime explorer on some occasions. My problem is that 
because I am not logged in as the ‘Designer’ the menu item is greyed out.

My understanding is that this is because I am signed in doing programming as 
someone other than the designer. 

Am I missing something?

Jody Bevan
Developer



Argus Productions Inc. 




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Re: SDI or MDI

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Paul:

The biggest reason for me, are clients that have two monitors on windows. 
Having the SDI means they can move the windows in our app anywhere they want. 
With the MDI if they want to use both monitors, they need to drag the MDI 
window across both windows. Having tried this myself, it just does not work 
well.

To a lesser degree, many windows users want to see their desktop picture, and 
the windows of other apps.

Jody

> On Jan 30, 2020, at 3:06 AM, Paul Dennis via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Seeing an earlier post by Tim. I'm struggling to understand the benefit of
> SDI on Windows. I understand on a Mac with the way the menu switches with
> the window SDI makes sense. However the windows implementation where the
> menu remains with the window does not work for me so I am surprised why
> people are adopting this unless it's for cross platform compatibility.
> 
> Considering that browsers with their tabbed interface are by default MDI
> adopting SDI seemed like a retrograde step at least on Windows.
> 
> Any thoughts ?
> 
> Regards
> Paul
> 
> 
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Re: Change menu title

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Ferdinando:

I have never changed the name, I have only ever added, or removed menus. Maybe 
you need to wipe out the menu and recreate it. Not sure - sorry.

Jody

> On Jan 20, 2020, at 3:19 PM, stardata.info via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Jody,
> 
> Actually I use the command: SET MENU ITEM to change the text in the item 
> menu, exists one command to change the text in menu name?
> In manual creation, I can change it, but if I need to change it using one 
> command how I can this?
> 
> Thanks
> Ferdinando
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2020 11:40:12 -0600
> From: Jody Bevan
> To: 4D iNug Technical<4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> Subject: Re: Change menu title
> Message-ID:<89ce21d2-6628-4567-a715-edecd24cc...@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> Ferdinando:
> 
> How did you create your menus. With version 16 there are two ways to create 
> your menus.
> 
> 1. Traditional graphical tool way
> 2. Using a purely code way.
> 
> Thus if #1:
> Go to Menu: Design -> Toolbox -> Menus
> In the graphical tool find the menu title you would like to change and change 
> them there.
> 
> If using #2:
> 
> Go to the method(s) that create the menus for the application. Change the 
> title in this location. Hopefully the menus are all created in 1 method so 
> you do not need to find all occurrences of menu changes.
> 
> Jody Bevan
> Argus Productions Inc.
> 
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Re: Change menu title

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Ferdinando:

How did you create your menus. With version 16 there are two ways to create 
your menus.

1. Traditional graphical tool way
2. Using a purely code way.

Thus if #1: 
Go to Menu: Design -> Toolbox -> Menus
In the graphical tool find the menu title you would like to change and change 
them there.

If using #2:

Go to the method(s) that create the menus for the application. Change the title 
in this location. Hopefully the menus are all created in 1 method so you do not 
need to find all occurrences of menu changes.

Jody Bevan
Argus Productions Inc.


> On Jan 20, 2020, at 10:00 AM, stardata.info via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> hi all,
> 
> I use 4D V16 on windows.
> I need to change the menu titles, what is the command that i can use?
> 
> Thanks
> Ferdinando

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4D and SAP

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

1. Have any of you created interfaces to SAP?
- send it data
- get data from it

I may have the opportunity to manage an IT team. The company uses SAP. If I 
know that I can connect with 4D to get data out, or into SAP that will open up 
a familiar opportunity to me.

Otherwise… I could be learning a whole new world.

Thanks

Jody Bevan
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Re: Export from 4D 6.8, Import to 4D 17.3

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Keisuke Miyako:

Thanks for your as usual knowledgable response. Putting MacRoman in the Use 
Character Set made it works just great.

My day is already more enjoyable after only 5 minutes thanks to you.

Jody Bevan

> On Dec 26, 2019, at 7:38 PM, Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> as a general observation:
> 
> us-ascii denotes that you only accept bytes in the range 0x00 to 0x7F.
> everything else you ignore.
> 
> diacritical characters are always above that range, whatever the encoding.
> diacritical characters are encoded differently, ISO-8859-1 vs ISO-8859-15 
> (especially the euro character) vs Windows-1252 vs UTF-8 vs MacRoman.
> 
> keep in mind that 4D v6.8 used MacRoman, regardless of the platform.
> 
>> 2019/12/27 6:18、Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>のメール:
>> When I had used ‘Use Character Set’ (US_ASCII”;1)
> 
> 
> 
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Export from 4D 6.8, Import to 4D 17.3

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

I have an import method that I have used many times through 16 and a couple in 
17 (but not 17.3).

The export of the data from 4D 6.8 is all records, with all fields just 
standard 4D fields (no pictures etc). It is set as a Macintosh File format.

I have looked at the exported file in BBEdit and each line looks good. There is 
a carriage return at the end of each line.

There are some accented characters that are in the data, but this did not cause 
any problems before.

In 4D 17.3 I have an import method.

The first thing I do though, is look through the selected disk base file and 
count the number of carriage returns. This tells me how many lines (records) 
there are in the text file.

There should be 11,960 lines counted.
When I had used ‘Use Character Set’ (US_ASCII”;1) in the past it always worked 
just fine. Now the method cannot find a Carriage return after the 6th line.
I noticed that in the 6th line there was a á character. To just try it, I 
switched ‘Use Character Set’ to (UTF-8;1)
This time it gets to 347 lines (in all attempts).

This seems like a stupid programmer - smack front of head - mistake that I am 
making. Therefore in taking a pause on tackling this problem - any ideas?

Thanks

Jody Bevan
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Re: [Tip] Do NOT put a compnent method reference in a Catch

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Chip:

Thanks for updating us. The found problem and solution is always valuable be 
get.

Jody

> On Dec 2, 2019, at 2:33 PM, Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> As some may remember I was going nuts trying to track down why when I 
> loaded an interpreted version of a component 4D would error on startup 
> with a stack overflow error.
> 
> Thanks to 4D tech support, the problem was discovered.
> 
> I had placed a Catch (Runtime explorer -> Catch) which referenced a 
> component method's return value, apparently, 4D did not like that AT. 
> ALL.
> 
> v15 gave a dialog - before any code could run with a stack overflow 
> error.
> v16 just crashed silently to the desktop.
> 
> so... don't do that  :)
> 
> Chip
> We have done so much, with so little, for so long;
> We are now qualified to anything with nothing 
>  - unknown
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Re: ListBox - Possible to set choice list programmatically?

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Kirk:

There are two ways that we accomplish what you are thinking of. Well actually 
only one, and the other is the work around.

To have a popup icon automatically show in the cell, you need to have 4D View 
Pro active. This will permit this type of object along with many others. If you 
use 4D View Pro active then you have many types of objects, and options 
available. 

When you do not have 4D View Pro available then one is almost out of luck. 
1.  - Have an on clicked event for the cell, and make objects available on 
the form (or a new dialog window) that lets you present a popup window.

2.  - Make the column a picture column. Then use SVG to create the picture 
for each cell. The picture would be the value plus the popup icon. This of 
course is slower when may rows are displayed.


Jody

> On Nov 11, 2019, at 2:43 AM, rooftop99--- via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> When creating a ListBox in the 4D form editor it is possible to select a 
> single column and then set attributes for Choice List, Required List, and 
> Excluded list.  This creates drop-down menus in each cell of that column.  
> When creating a Listbox column programmatically I don’t see a way to set 
> these attributes.  Is it possible?  The command “Listbox set Property”  sets 
> other attributes, but not those three.
> 
> Bottomline:  I am looking for a way through code to create an ad hoc choice 
> dropdown in a given column of a Listbox object.  How are you folks doing this 
> now?
> 
> Thanks in advance for your help!
> 
> Kirk

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Re: Cache flushing did not complete... best practice

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

For what it is worth, I second the recommendation by Jeff. We used mirrors from 
the day they were released many years ago. For critical data (like medical 
data), that just cannot be lost it is the way. 

It takes time to get the configuration you need figured out. There are 
different ways to handle this depending on how hot you want a recovery server. 
We needed as hot as we could get so here is what we did.

1. Have a second server with a complete backup on it of the data file.
2. The main server was set up to write the log files for the mirror consumption.
3. We wrote the log files to the local servers RAID 10 configuration (or RAID 5 
from way back when).
4. At set intervals the logs files where moved over to the backup server, where 
it imported in the log files.
This brings that server up to the moment of the last transaction in 
that log file.
5. The main server creates a new log file for the transactions.


There are many choices to be made in the configuration.
1. Where to write the log files for the mirror. As technology changed we 
changed where we wrote them to.
Considerations are:
- if you write to them over the network, what if the network is 
unavailable - your logs are no good.
- if you write them on a local volume of the main server, what if the 
mother board dies so you cannot access that last log file on the mirror server.
- you could write to a USB etc, volume mounted on the main server so 
that if  b occurs, you can physically move to the mirror server

All three of the above options have potential failures. Maintaining 
good equipment is therefore important.
Using RAID drives with hardware RAID provides good storage failsafe.

2. What intervals to have new log files be created and sent to the mirror server
This all depends on the volume of changes to the data file on your main 
server. Way back when we started, the OS file size limit was our limiting 
factor.

We had several sites with ~ 130 users with heavy data change patterns. We would 
be importing hundreds of thousands of lab results a day, plus required in 
datafile pre change versions of records, and
much more. At these sites we would have data files very large, and 
terabytes of data stored externally that they accessed.

Once you get all the mirror configuration figured out and tested, it was rock 
solid for us. Like everything testing the configurations, monitoring, and 
adjusting as necessary. We had a way
that if a log file was not consumed by the mirror, or still sitting on the main 
server when a second new log file was created an automated check would notify 
our support department. We 
learned to have a lot of automated notices sent to us. When your reputation is 
on the line to have reliable systems, I think it is critical to have automated 
tests and notifications. Then if
a problem does occur, you can know about it, and fix it before the client even 
knows there was a problem. 

NOTE: I got out of that business in 2013 when we were using 4D v12. I am not up 
to date on the latest mirroring configuration and issues. I suspect that what I 
have said above still holds true
to a large degree. Those that are using mirror in v16, v17 can correct where I 
am out of date.

Jody Bevan



> On Oct 28, 2019, at 11:06 AM, Jeffrey Kain via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Or use a mirror. Highly recommended if the database is important...
> 
>> On Oct 28, 2019, at 12:59 PM, JPR via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
>> 
>> The only 100% accurate way is to restart from the Backup file (made by 4D) 
>> and  integrate the current log file(s). This is the only way to be sure of 
>> the data integrity.
> 
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Windows Server 2019 OS

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Windows Server OS advice

The last Windows Server OS I advised on selling for a 4D Server computer was in 
Windows Server 2012. 

Back then we never needed to pay for CALs. They have another server they are 
using for File Serving, DNS etc. The server computer they are purchasing is 
only for serving up 4D.

Can they not just purchase the Windows Server 2019 Standard, 16 Core, FI No 
Med, No CAL version of Window Server OS?

Thanks.

Jody
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Re: Option click close box

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Jeremy:

I have not looked in the last few versions of of the manual. It was documented 
when the feature came out many years ago. I typically do not read all the 
manuals over, just read the update notes. Sometimes I do have to go back and 
read the documentation over again, but not that often.

I have not used it in a long time so the behavior you describe could be 
happening.

Jody Bevan
Argus Productions Inc.


> On Oct 5, 2019, at 5:56 AM, Jeremy Roussak via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Is 4D’s response to option-click in a window’s close box documented? All 
> windows close, which is as I’d expect, but they don’t seem to get sent an On 
> close box event. Also, the default splash screen window closes and I drop out 
> of application mode.
> 
> v17R5, Mac, running interpreted.
> 
> Jeremy

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Re: 4D authentication system that allow for stronger security.

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Eric:

To get what you have outlined (and much more) you just build your own within 
4D. We had to have a very modern password system in our software since before 
2000.

We have built our new shell with all of the password control in it. The nice 
thing is that the System Administrator gets to set how strict all of these item 
are, and which ones are activated. Therefore this permits a small company that 
decides they do not care about it, to have very simple password system. They 
can then choose to ratchet up the complexity as they need it.

We also implemented that the Administrator can decide if they want to E-Mail 
various alerts. That way you can know that someone is having trouble getting 
logged in, or that their account was locked out after too many attempts. The 
E-Mailing has very many options as well.

All of this information is also saved to logs. Our experience is that system 
Admins ignore most things. When there is trouble, then they can go back into 
the logs and gather all the information they need.

We also let the administrator click on a button that then passes the login 
control to LDAP.

So hopefully you can see that you can roll a very sophisticated system. I did 
not describe all the features by a long shot, but it gives you an idea of what 
you can do with 4D.

Jody Bevan
Argus Productions Inc.
i...@4dshell.com 





> On Sep 6, 2019, at 7:25 AM, Eric Naujock via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Good morning,
>   I did take a look at that article a short while ago. Its an interesting 
> read and they do have a number of interesting security options available. But 
> there is still the fundamental issue that the gateway or login process is one 
> that can be hacked and sometimes quite easily die to the lack of modern 
> protections. When it was released it was pretty good but lately as I look 
> closer at it with questions from a state government security person I can see 
> a number of glaring holes that should be filled. These are the biggest ones I 
> see.
> 
> 1. Passwords are only alphanumeric.
> 2. No two factor options.
> 3. Usernames and password are stored in the Structure file. (Very bad if your 
> revving structure files during continuous developemnt.
> 4. No account lockouts for fail authentication attempts. An attacker can just 
> continuously try usernames and passwords indefinitely. 
> 5. The AD options require that you serve from a windows server bound to and 
> AD system. You cannot use this if you have Mac clients or a Apple server.
> 6. No ability to define password difficulty or force password changes 
> periodically. (I know that need to change passwords regularly has been 
> debunked but most govt. best practice documents still believe that’s the way 
> to go.)
> 
> Thanks for the feedback.
> 
>> On Sep 6, 2019, at 3:22 AM, Maurice Inzirillo - AJAR 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Eric,
>> 
>> Regarding 4D security I recommend to read this special 4D Security Guide to 
>> get a full idea of what 4D offers
>> 
>> https://blog.4d.com/4d-security-guide/ 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> 
>> Maurice Inzirillo
>> -- 
>> AJAR S.A.
>> 
>> https://ch-fr.4d.com 
>> twitter: ajar_info
>> Tél : +41 (0)323422684
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 5 Sep 2019, at 16:22, Eric Naujock via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com 
>>> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Does anyone have a replacement login system for 4D that offers stronger 
>>> authentication security than the current system. Since the current system 
>>> does not enforce password changes, or password complexity it is a pretty 
>>> poor system in the current age. While the encryption is crypt is is still 
>>> brute force attackable as well. There are no failed login lockouts. Nor is 
>>> three the ability to have two factor authentication? Or is this something 
>>> beyond what anyone out there is using. 
>>> 
>>> ---
>>> 
>>> MacCafe
>>> 7860 Central Ave.
>>> Toledo, OH 43617
>>> Phone: (419) 885-1240 X 241
>>> Fax: (419) 517-2063
>>> Eric Naujock  -  ACSA 10.2, 10.3, 10.4 Apple - ACTC 10.5, 10.6, 10.7, 10.8, 
>>> 10.9, 10.10, -ACSP 10.11, 10.12, 10.13
>>> http://www.mac-cafe.com 
>>> email: e r...@mac-cafe.com 
>>> 
>>> AOL IM: erlic
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> **
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>> 
> 
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Re: Screen arrangement

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Chip:

The main screen will have a top left coordinate of 0;0. 

Then get the coordinates of each screen.
You can then determine where each screen is.

A horizontal negative value means the screen is to the left of the main screen.
A vertical negative value means the screen is above the main screen. 

Of course above and below are virtual directions based on how the user has set 
up the screens in the OS.

From the Count Screens, and Screen coordinates you can then determine the edges 
of each screen and their logical position.

Jody
ARGUS Productions Inc.

> On Aug 9, 2019, at 10:52 AM, Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> In a situation where there are 2 or more screens attached to a computer.
> is there any way to determine the screen arrangement? (horizontal, 
> vertical, grid)
> 
> In a 2 or more horizontal
> which screen is main (left, right, other)
> 
> In a 2 or more vertical
> which screen is main (Top, bottom other)
> 
> in a grid (4 or more) with at least 2 vertical and at least 2 
> horizontal)
> which screen in main?
> 
> Thanks
> Chip
> ---
> Gas is for washing parts
> Alcohol is for drinkin'
> Nitromethane is for racing 
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Re: Windows Server 2012 & 4D Server v17.2

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Oh, red faced with pie on it on this one.

We tested the application on a server in our office. Unknown to me the 
application was being run on port 19833. 

Unknown to me this port setting travels with the structure file to our client’s 
server. I thought I had checked that, but likely did not pay enough attention 
to the detail that it ended in ’33’ instead of ’13’.

Something so simple. I had them check the Windows Firewall, and numerous other 
things.

Thanks John Baughman, Ed Glassgow, and Paul Dennis for your replies. 

In the end good news, nothing strange, just a simple setting that I neglected 
to set back. Now wiser. Guess I have been away from setting up servers for too 
long. 

Jody Bevan

> On Jul 19, 2019, at 8:17 AM, Jody Bevan  wrote:
> 
> I do not have access to the Windows Server Administration window (only to 4D 
> Server Window). 4D Server has been working fine there. A restart of the 4D 
> Server to put up an application update,  (that works on a server in our shop) 
> and now the clients cannot see 4D Server broadcasting.
> 
> I have gone into 4D server to ensure that it is broadcasting on 19813 and the 
> 4D Admin window says that it is. It even shows network activity in that 
> window. No clients can connect to the server. A 4D Client running on the 
> server computer cannot connect either.
> 
> If I had access to the Windows Server Administration window I would poke 
> around to try and find something (like the firewall on) causing this. 
> 
> Any pointers on what I should check for?
> 
> I am not used to having client controlled servers.
> 
> Jody
> ARGUS Productions Inc.

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Re: Windows Server 2012 & 4D Server v17.2

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Tim:

Thanks

Jody

> On Jul 19, 2019, at 1:09 PM, Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> On Jul 19, 2019, at 2:00 PM, Jody Bevan wrote:
> 
>> I do not have access to the Windows Server Administration window (only to 4D 
>> Server Window). 4D Server has been working fine there. A restart of the 4D 
>> Server to put up an application update,  (that works on a server in our 
>> shop) and now the clients cannot see 4D Server broadcasting.
>> 
>> I have gone into 4D server to ensure that it is broadcasting on 19813 and 
>> the 4D Admin window says that it is. It even shows network activity in that 
>> window. No clients can connect to the server. A 4D Client running on the 
>> server computer cannot connect either.
>> 
>> If I had access to the Windows Server Administration window I would poke 
>> around to try and find something (like the firewall on) causing this. 
>> 
>> Any pointers on what I should check for?
>> 
>> I am not used to having client controlled servers.
> 
> Check the Application Server tab on the 4D Server Administration see if the 
> button at the top says “Accept new connections”. If it says that, then the 
> server has decided to reject connections. If you click the button the button 
> name should then change to “Reject new connections”. But that might not make 
> a difference. 
> 
> I’ve seen v17 sometimes go into reject connections mode for no known reason. 
> Clicking the button does not fix it. 
> 
> Try restarting the server machine. That is how I’ve fixed the reject 
> connection problem. 
> 

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Windows Server 2012 & 4D Server v17.2

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

I do not have access to the Windows Server Administration window (only to 4D 
Server Window). 4D Server has been working fine there. A restart of the 4D 
Server to put up an application update,  (that works on a server in our shop) 
and now the clients cannot see 4D Server broadcasting.

I have gone into 4D server to ensure that it is broadcasting on 19813 and the 
4D Admin window says that it is. It even shows network activity in that window. 
No clients can connect to the server. A 4D Client running on the server 
computer cannot connect either.

If I had access to the Windows Server Administration window I would poke around 
to try and find something (like the firewall on) causing this. 

Any pointers on what I should check for?

I am not used to having client controlled servers.

Jody
ARGUS Productions Inc.
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Re: 'Clairvoyance' in listBox (v17r5)

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Chris Belanger:

To vote, to to the top of the first post. There are 4 yellow starts. Click on 
the first star to indicate - ya it would be nice, Click on the 4th star to 
indicate it is a very very good idea. The 2nd and 3rd stars are in between 
those thought levels.

The little number to the right of the starts  indicates the number who have 
voted for the feature.

Jody Bevan
Argus Productions Inc.

> On Jun 24, 2019, at 2:41 PM, Chris Belanger via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> Thanks, John.
> All I did to ‘vote’ for it was to reply “Me Too”. Is there a more ‘official’ 
> way to upvote a feature request?
> — Chris

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Re: POSIX Path Syntax (How to convert from 4D POSIX to Terminal POSXIX?)

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

If you are putting this into a Terminal script, then I always just use the 
MacOS Copy Pathname from the right click on the file name (then press the  
option key). When the MacOS places the pathname into the pasteboard it will 
have the appropriate syntax (escaping out the spaces) as needed for terminal.

Jody Bevan
Argus Productions Inc.

> On Jun 24, 2019, at 8:57 AM, Jeremy French via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> How do we resolve POSIX file path syntax between 4D and Mac Terminal?
> 
> This Mac system path has a space in the folder name "Final Application":
> Macintosh 
> HD:Users:jeremyfrench:Desktop:test_notarize_01:test_notarize_01_Build:Final 
> Application:test_notarize_01.app:
> 
> 4D's POSIX shows the space in "Final Application" unescaped:
> /Users/jeremyfrench/Desktop/test_notarize_01/test_notarize_01_Build/Final 
> Application/test_notarize_01.app/
> 
> And 4D's escaped POSIX shows the space represented as "%20”, like this:
> /Users/jeremyfrench/Desktop/test_notarize_01/test_notarize_01_Build/Final%20Application/test_notarize_01.app/
> 
> Neither 4D syntax (escaped or unescaped) matches Terminal's POSIX syntax.
> 
> Terminal's POSIX shows the space in "Final Application" escaped differently, 
> with a left-slash: "\ "
> /Users/jeremyfrench/Desktop/test_notarize_01/test_notarize_01_Build/Final\ 
> Application/test_notarize_01.app
> 
> QUESTIONS:
> 
> Does Terminal escape only space characters?
> Are there other characters that Terminal escapes with a left-slash?
> Is replacing a space with left-slash-space the only change needed to convert 
> 4D's POSIX to Terminal's POXSIX?
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Re: [Tip]Set Query Destination

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Doug:

Good practice. I always have the set and reset code within the same method. 
Then when we run our QA method, if one is missing it records the error, and 
places the method with the error description in our listbox to fix.

Good structured coding practices, also makes it much easier to write Quality 
Assurance methods, to ensure the code is correct.

Jody

> On Jun 21, 2019, at 8:37 AM, Douglas von Roeder via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> Chip:
> 
> When Set query limit and Set query destination came out, I ran into the
> situation where queries “stopped working” because I had forgotten to add
> the code to reset them. To avoid that, I made it a practice to type the
> “reset” code *before* I type the code to change the destination or limit
> from their normal settings.
> 
> --
> Douglas von Roeder
> 949-336-2902
> 
> 

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Re: signature capture in 4D

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Jim:

I may have missed is, but what make and model did you buy to integrate this 
way. It sounds like the manufactures were ensuring it would work on the MacOS 
from within other applications as well as on Windows. That is nice.

Thanks

Jody Bevan

> On Jun 19, 2019, at 10:10 AM, Jim Crate via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> It’s pretty simple, the signature pad had an app that could be launched to 
> collect a signture. 
> 
> The app supported a user-specific properties file, which I copied into the 
> correct place from the Resources folder. These properties also affected 
> launching the signature app from Scriptel’s Adobe Reader plugin for PDF 
> signatures. The app also supported being launched with command line options 
> that could override those properties, and one of the options forced it to 
> quit after collecting a signature or canceling. If you launch with the ‘open’ 
> command, LEP will return immediately, but I executed the binary buried in the 
> application package (Contents/MacOS/binaryname) so LEP waited until the 
> application quit. So in 4D the process is:
> 
> — make sure the destination file does not exist
> — launch the app with LEP
> — check for the destination file; if it doesn’t exist user cancelled.
> 
> The best way to see if this will work for you is to test by launching on the 
> command line (Terminal on macOS). If your shell does not give you a promp 
> until the app quits, then this might work for you. The option that forced the 
> Scriptel app to quit after accepting/canceling is for plugin mode (--plugin). 
> The Topaz may work similarly, especially if they have plugins that allow you 
> to collect signatures in Excel, Word, or Adobe Reader.
> 
> Jim Crate

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Re: Benefits of 64-bit 4D Remote

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

For a client that has a system that mostly meets their needs it is hard to 
convince them to move forward. The costs for your time, and new equipment will 
just seem unnecessary. It is like that 10 year old car that feels new, runs 
great. The difference is when that old car dies they can just buy a new one. At 
this point in computes, that is not the case.

Apple, and Microsoft have been warning of this impending crush for several 
years now. It takes years to get the whole industry to move forward from 32 bit 
to 64bit. That time is coming now though. In a year (and in some cases less) 
they are not supporting 32 bit OS. Customers will not be able to buy a 32 bit 
OS. As well, new hardware will not support running 32bit OS. That of course 
does not mean their current equipment or system will suddenly stop working.

What will happen though is that a workstation will break down and they will 
need to buy a new one. It will not support 32 bit applications, but that is 
what their system is written in. Therefore without upgrading in a planned way, 
they will either need to move then, or do with less workstations.

When the server dies, that is a whole lot different story. Suddenly they need 
to move yesterday, and to do it right it take times.

It is for these reasons that all clients needs to move forward.

My recommendation is that they move to 17.1 though. That way they have more 64 
bit features, yet they can still get 32 bit remote applications. This is the 
cross over version with 4D. They can have their old hardware, but they can move 
to the new hardware when needed.

Jody

> On May 22, 2019, at 11:35 PM, Tom Benedict via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> I’m trying make a recommendation to a client as to whether they should move 
> to 64-bit 4D Remote in v16.5 However, I’m not finding any compelling reasons. 
> But I know it’s a very big thing for 4D, so I’m wondering whether I’m missing 
> something? The documentation 
> (https://doc.4d.com/4Dv17/4D/17.1/Changing-from-32-bit-versions-to-64-bit-versions.300-4201298.en.html)
>  mentions:
> 
> - The 64-bit architecture pushes back database cache limits. Improve your 
> database's performances simply by using a larger cache. <- this is only on 
> Server, right? And that’s been around since v12 on Windows and since v15.1 on 
> MacOS.
> - Adopt powerful 64-bit features such as preemptive processes, animated form 
> objects, or new printing features. <- this is probably good, but I don’t 
> think this particular app can take advantage of these features
> - Build your applications with 4D (Runtime) Volume Desktop 64-bit. <- not 
> applicable with this particular app
> - Use final 64-bit versions of 4D Server on Windows and macOS. <- I don’t 
> understand this. What is a “final 64-bit version”? 
> - New Quick report editor, compatible with reports created using previous 
> versions. <- not applicable with this particular app
> - New Label editor, compatible with label files created using previous 
> versions. <- not applicable with this particular app
> - Create graphs using an Object type parameter with the GRAPH 
>  command. <- not 
> applicable with this particular app
> 
> According to the blog.4d.com , 4D v17R5 is 64bit only, 
> so that means v18 will be 64bit only. That will ultimately be the compelling 
> reason to move to 64-bit, but in the meantime I can’t see any reason to make 
> the move, especially since it would require moving to 4DWritePro, which 
> appears to be a massive undertaking. Am I missing anything else if we stick 
> to 32-bit 4D Remote? 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Tom Benedict
> **
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Re: 3 menubars management

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Hi Ernie!

With version 17 having very custom menus is a bit or work, but it works fast 
and slick. If I understand what you are asking… the following works well.

We build all our menus via code. You need to also build a bit of security (you 
can use the 4D Groups if you want) to know who gets what menu. In the code to 
build your menus (with each time someone logs in) you build the menus. In the 
method used to build the menus, for each menu and menu item (or group of items) 
you test if the user is in a specific 4D Group. If not do not add the menu or 
menu item. 

This way you can make the system look very simple (and secure) by not showing 
them menus the user should not have access to. 

This of course means each user must sign into the system when they go to use 
it. With security requirements, this is not unusual. I think this is a more 
elegant solution than displaying menus and menu items that a user does not have 
access to.

Jody Bevan
Argus Productions Inc

> On Apr 25, 2019, at 11:08 AM, ernie hilgers via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi All, 
> 
> I have a 4D structure that caters to 3 level of users. 
> (users/supervisors/managers)
> 
> Situation: 
> there are features like "customer lookup" with it's output form where a 
> menubar is assigned and active during the design of the layout.
> there are more of the same situations but I'll stick to this "customer 
> lookup".
> 
> Menus:
> user:
> has a menu where they are able to look at customer-data and many other menu 
> items, typically for a User/salesperson. 
> 
> supervisor:
> level will switch to another menubar with other functionalities AND also have 
> access to the customer-lookup.
> but when the supervisor initiates the method that displays the output form, 
> the form ALSO adds/displays the standard User menu bar AFTER the menu bar of 
> the supervisor.
> 
> basically displaying 2 menubars on a row at the same time. 
> 
> manager:
> same phenomena as with the supervisor. 
> Manager has more items pertaining to the manager level AND some of the other 
> menu-items from both Users and Supervisors level. 
> Again adding the particular menubar to the current one. 
> 
> this I want to prevent.  where can I find tech-notes on this very un-elegant 
> result ? 
> 
> 
> Pointers are very welcome.  (mac / pc 4D v17 os X10.13/14; W7/10) 
> 
> Greetings
> 
> ernie hilgers (aruba)
> 

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Re: Project methods vs ...

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Just to chime in with my Belizean penny worth… (less than a Canadian penny)

We have several forms that are used as the form for all tables. There are full 
suites of buttons on these project forms. For these buttons they all call a 
Project method. Within these are a case of statement that calls the appropriate 
method for the method. This creates a very standardized forms, and behavior for 
the user. 

I agree that if the same code block is going to be used more than once, it 
should be placed into a project method. I would hate to have a hard and fast 
rule for an object to never have code specific to it in it. That just makes for 
harder work on our part.

In our form methods and object methods we will call project methods for blocks 
of code that we use often. This means that those methods get called a lot. We 
know they work. When we read through a form or object method we recognize these 
often called methods and breeze right on by. We understand what they do. Being 
able to quickly read through a method and understand what it is doing 
(hopefully description in the comments at the top too), makes making 
enhancements and bug fixes much easier.

Sometimes a project method we call might have some sophisticated code in it. 
Having that block of text in every form method would be horrible.

Of course in my hobbyist opinion…

Jody

> On Apr 25, 2019, at 8:22 AM, Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Chris B made the below statement about project methods.
> 
> from a 'classic' 4D pogromming view, IMHO - which may mean nothing :), 
> this is not the approach I use or advocate.
> 
> I do use object methods - but - only to call project methods which do 
> all of the actual work.
> ex: accept button script
>// accept button script <[table].form.object>
> tablename_entry_accept
>   // end accept button script <[table].form.object>
> 
> the project method tablename_entry_accept will do data entry 
> validation, messaging about entry failures, related record existence, 
> calculations that need to be done etc. and usually an ACCEPT
> 
> 
> Why?
> Deduplication of code. Code should NOT be repeated. In the above 
> example, the code to accept the form maybe reusable or be made more 
> generic (with parameters). If the code for this accept button was 
> placed in the object script - I might end up re-creating/repeating the 
> code elsewhere (even to the point of copy/paste). 
> 
> At some point in the future I might need to change the logic/code. Then 
> I would need to find all instances of the code through out the system, 
> to make the change. If the system is NOT one I wrote, or it has been a 
> long time (3 days?) since I worked on that section I would/might not 
> know where all instances of the duplicated code are.
> 
> If the code is in a project method, I can make the changes needed in 
> one place, done.
> Also - code in scripts is harder to find/maintain.
> 
> Some people in the past have advocated for removal of all object 
> scripts, placing the code instead into the form method (or better the 
> project method called by the form method). I do not personally do this, 
> as I looked at it once and, to me, the resulting code was too long and 
> not clear -- of course maybe I was not implementing the idea correctly 
> or completely :)
> 
> just my 2 cents
> 
> Chip
> 
> 
> On Wed, 24 Apr 2019 22:37:51 -0600, Chris Belanger via 4D_Tech wrote:
>> 
>> Another use for it that I have not explored yet is to have a chunk of 
>> code that gets run under several different circumstances, but which I 
>> don’t want to make a dedicated Project Method for it.
>> I prefer to reduce the number of Project Methods while, of course, 
>> creating ones that make logical sense (as they can be called in 
>> several places in my code). But you understand that as a programmer.
> ---
> Gas is for washing parts
> Alcohol is for drinkin'
> Nitromethane is for racing 
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Re: [OFF] The Death of Sebastian...

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Robert:

Sorry to hear this. Pets can be the most important beings in our lives. So sad 
for your loss.

Jody

> On Apr 24, 2019, at 7:01 PM, Robert ListMail via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> Sadly I returned home, from two back to back trips (National Association of 
> Broadcasters & MotoGP), to find my beloved cat (Sebastian), the coolest cat 
> that ever lived, died unexpectedly while I was at MOTOGP on Sunday... I’m so 
> devastated that I did not see him for 8 days straight and that my unusually 
> poor decision making was a factor in his death and that I could have done 
> more to save his life! He was reportedly not well Saturday night but I didn’t 
> think his condition would be fatal 24 hours later. I feel like I’ve really 
> f@cked up and I’ll never forgive myself. Sorry to drop this on you. I know 
> that some of you knew him, while some had no such opportunity…
> 

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Re: Code signing works on one app but fails on another

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Pat:

I use DropBox for this every week. When I bill a .dmg file I upload to Dropbox 
and for about that last 6 months, when it is downloaded by others it works fine.

Just of note I use DMG Canvas. That should not matter, but it is a point of 
difference.

Jody

> On Apr 24, 2019, at 10:42 AM, Pat Bensky via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Actually it doesn't seem to be working ... it seems to corrupt the app in
> some way.
> It's quite bizarre ... I compile the app, sign it using Miyako's code, and
> create a disk image using DropDMG. I check it by mounting the disk image
> and installing the app. It runs OK.
> Then I upload it to DropBox.
> Download it from Dropbox, open it, install it, and it will not run. The app
> starts to open and then I get the message "CatBase 8 is damaged and can't
> be opened."
> 
> Any ideas?
> 

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Re: 4D v17 R5 file and folder objects !!!

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Jeff:

LOL. Is that like find a Millennial that can jump in a Land Rover Defender and 
drive because they understands no keyless entry, need a key to start it, 2 
stick shifts with 12 gears and differential lock, and hand crank down windows.

Oh, yes one that I found is true. They do not know how to read hand writing! I 
was blown away when a 19 year old Canadian said he could not read it because 
they were never taught it.

On an appreciative Note:

Now that the move to 64bit, and updating the code base, 4D SAS is really 
pouring out the enhancements. Fun times to be working with 4D I think.

Jody

> On Apr 24, 2019, at 5:36 AM, Jeffrey Kain via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Time references for documents are a good weed-out mechanism - if you can find 
> a millennial who just gets it, you have a keeper... :)
> 
>> On Apr 24, 2019, at 2:51 AM, Bruno LEGAY via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I just noticed in 4D v17 R5 the new file and folder objets...
>> 
>> https://doc.4d.com/4Dv17R5/4D/17-R5/File-and-Folder.201-4282207.en.html
>> 
>> This is great !
>> 

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Re: 4D Security White Paper

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

As with all security anything can be hacked given time, money, and desire.

First of all, social hacking is the most likely cause of leaked data. So moving 
on, to other types.

If someone really wants your data they might steal your server computer. In 
days gone by if you didn’t know the Administration password - not a problem 
take the drives out and hook up into a different system. If though, you have 
used a RAID system, with hardware encryption of the data that does not work. 
Everything is encrypted on the hard drives. You are not going to get any data.

So, here again social hacking is needed to get the Administrator’s password. No 
amount of work on our end as developers is going to stop social hacking.

4D has long had encryption of data between the server and the 4D Client. That 
is in case someone is going to sniff the wireless or wired network.

If you have opened up a 4D data file that is not encrypted, I challenge you to 
actually piece together the information. I have tried when I opened up a 
typical smaller data file of a smaller client - 30GB of data. Yes, I can see 
information, but a record is not all together. Therefore trying to pull data 
together for a single record, or a person is not going to be something one can 
do.

This is all very easy for each of you to look at. Open a data file up. If it is 
too big, you can build a text viewer that will read things in a character or 
‘x’ characters at a time. See for yourself how hard it is to read the data, 
pull together information.

I have worked through lots of different government security regulations. First 
they jump on what ever is the latest in the trade magazines. Second the 
elephant in the room is ignored (social hacking). They make up all these rules, 
and then when they have inspections on site they totally ignore the security 
rules  that they should be checking.

Jody


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Re: Custom Form Events

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Chris:

Absolutely there is a need for them. We use them extensively. I had not really 
thought of them as form events, but more of an event generating a request from 
somewhere else, or within the form. I am working on some form events right now. 

Prior to Objects in the language, the plugin Object Tools was the way to 
accomplish this. Prior to Object Tools, we had to write text files to disk 
(yuk!). The challenge has always been how to manage this. We use objects to do 
this now, and where we use workers we use the call Form command.

Personally I really like the objects to manage this. I like this as:

1.  they are global (on the workstation), 
2. we can easily see what is happening (we have a custom object viewer we can 
see the object contents even in compiled mode).
3. they can be created and discarded easily, and easily cleaned up the way we 
have ours. They die when the process dies.

You need to create an object for this, have strict rules for naming, ensure you 
wipe them out when done, and they should be wiped out when the processes is 
done. Generic methods that look after all of this is the way to go. Generic 
methods that look after all of this so you do not really have to think about it 
when coding. 

Hope this helps. It is how we accomplish this.

Jody Bevan

> On Apr 23, 2019, at 8:32 AM, Chris Belanger via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> I am wondering if there is a way to configure Custom Form Events. I would 
> like to be able to post a form event, and have it then processed within the 
> FORM METHOD as such.
> I am doing a lot of work in “Orda context” right now and can think of some 
> handy features that could be implemented in that way, especially with keeping 
> the number of project methods down (as code could be put into a script 
> instead).
> Before you think “why would he want to do that?” — please just focus on the 
> question of ‘can I?’. :)
> 
> In the past, I used the form event “on Outside Call” stuff to handle 
> communications between processes, so I understand all that stuff.
> 
> I remember — but cannot find again — some documentation that talked about 
> using negative-numbered values for events to facilitate custom events. 
> However, I seem to remember it only was in the context of subforms.
> 
> Any help or direction you could provide would be most appreciated!
> Thanks — Chris
> **
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Re: From where is my form method called?

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Looks like you found it now. When you have many objects on a form, the way to 
have 4D find the object, and select it is as follows:

1. Click on the form window or form.
2. This brings forward the Property Listing dialog.
3. At the top of this dialog is a popup. 
4. Click on this popup and it will show you a listing of:
- all the objects on page zero
- all the objects on the page you are on. 

** be warned that only the objects that are in the views that you have 
indicated as showing. 
- Views are controlled by the ‘pages’ icon beside the form page 
navigator.
5. When you find the object you are looking for in the popup, select it. Then 
you can look on the form for the object that is highlighted.

Hope this helps.

Jody Bevan


> On Apr 15, 2019, at 10:05 AM, Sandor Szatmari via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> I have a form method [MyObject].MyObjectDetail.bValidate
> 
> 
> How can I find what form object this method is attached to?
> 
> 
> It looks like it's a button validation from the name, but I'm guessing.
> 
> 
> Is there a way to reveal the object to which this method is attached?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> Sandor Szatmari
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Senior Software Developer
> Bristol Capital Inc. - InfoPlus
> 201 746 7215
> www.infoplusonline.com
> 
> 
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Re: I really recommend the 4D World Tour

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Kirk:

Thanks for taking the time to think through this and write it out. The Summit 
last year was a good introduction, and my expectation is that the WT this year 
will be some serious work to be thought through. Plan on coming rested this 
time.

Thanks again

Jody

> On Apr 10, 2019, at 8:00 AM, Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Heading home from the WT in Atlanta. For me this was the best WT so far and
> I've been to them all. I think anyone using 4D benefits from attending. The
> first day is free. In previous WTs day one was more of a sales pitch and
> feature overview. Not so this time. There are 17 demo databases in day one.
> They highlight and present many of the new capabilities involving ORDA,
> Form, dynamic forms and a more refined preview of 4D for iOS. There are a
> number of useful elements you can pull right into a project - assuming you
> are working v17+….
> 
> 

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Re: Error connecting to 4D Server

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Steve:

I agree with you 100%. It does not matter that we are right, if the client and 
their ‘network / hardware experts’ are telling them we are at fault.

I have shown in person the problems on the network or on the servers. Absolute 
obvious problems. I have documented them with written letters to the client 
after the meeting.

Who got blamed by the client - us. 

This is why industry accepted tools that show the proof of the problems is 
important to have in our toolbox. Some of the good network tools are expensive, 
and take substantial investment in training to get to use them effectively. 
Unless you have several staff, a great revenue stream you cannot afford the 
time, or the tools.

I encourage sharing here on how we can tackle this issue, for I have 
experienced these issues from time to time. It is a tough issue to tackle. 
Needing to point out the problems, while not chopping the nose of the client 
that you want to keep, while at the same time not hurting your own image. A 
tangled mess for sure.

Jody
ARGUS Productions Inc.

> On Apr 9, 2019, at 6:16 AM, Stephen J. Orth via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> Bernd,
> 
> Hello...
> 
> Yes, we are aware that this is potentially network related, but try 
> explaining that to a customer and not have them think your pointing fingers, 
> or passing the blame.
> 
> The biggest issue is we are getting these errors from a Client that is 
> running on the Server.  
> 
> 
> Steve

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Re: Benchmark Speed Test Method

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Steve:

Thanks for that information. I used to have one I had written in 4D. This tool 
will be superior I am certain of that. I will need to read up on this, as I 
have an install coming up.

Jody

> On Apr 5, 2019, at 2:04 PM, Stephen J. Orth via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> Stephen,
> 
> We benchmark every Clients server storage system as part of our initial 
> project management so we know if it will meet our requirements.  We use a 
> Microsoft tool called DiskSpd and have a configuration script to test various 
> loads on the storage system.  The results are plotted against one of our 
> "base" systems for comparison, with the results provided to our Customer.  
> Our primary metrics are:
> 
> 1. IOPS
> 2. MBPS
> 3. Avg Latency
> 4. Max Latency.
> 
> Most of our customers configure their storage system wrong, basically as a 
> "data warehouse" not as a "OLTP" where most packet sizes will be 2 - 4 kb.  
> The latency of a storage system is very important, similar to how important 
> it is for 4D's network connection.
> 
> Best,
> 
> 
> Steve

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Re: Code signing works on one app but fails on another

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Pat:

The error No such file or directory, is an error saying that the paths you are 
giving Terminal are incorrect. One thing that can cause this is if the file 
name, or the directory path has spaces in the names. Though the OS can handle 
spaces terminal cannot. You need to put an escape character in front of the 
space (back slash or forward slash not sure at the moment).

Jody

> On Apr 2, 2019, at 3:47 PM, Pat Bensky via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Jeremy,
> I've tried different hyphens ...
> --force --deep
> I get:
> 
> ID: No such file or directory
> 
> -force -deep
> I get:
> 
> invalid argument "rce"
> 
> ?
> 
> 
> On Tue, 2 Apr 2019 at 19:56, Jeremy Roussak via 4D_Tech <
> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
>> Pat, what’s the character before “force”? In your email, it seems to be an
>> em-dash. I suspect it should be a double-hyphen. The same will apply to the
>> character before “deep”.
>> 
>> Jeremy
>> 
>>> On 2 Apr 2019, at 19:05, Pat Bensky via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Jody,
>>> Thanks very much for this.
>>> I've tried running doing as you suggested in Terminal but I always get:
>>> 
>>> Developer: found in both
>>> /Users/patbensky/Library/Keychains/login.keychain-db and
>>> /Library/Keychains/System.keychain (this is all right)
>>> 
>>> —force: No such file or directory
>>> 
>>> The pathname for the file is definitely correct - if I run
>>> open /mypathname/
>>> 
>>> it opens the database.
>>> 
>>> Any ideas?
>>> 
>>> Thanks!
>>> 
>>> Pat
>>> 
>>> On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 at 14:17, Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech <
>> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Pat:
>>>> 
>>>> I struggled with this for a few months. A bunch of research, help from
>> the
>>>> nug, and help from 4D Tech support, I think I found our problem. We will
>>>> use a graphic application to create some graphics (icons / pictures
>> etc).
>>>> As is usual, Apple is getting more strict with each version of the OS
>> for
>>>> signing. They are permitting less ‘noise’ in the files.
>>>> 
>>>> Make of copy of your .4dbase to work with that is uncompiled. The goal
>> is
>>>> to make a clean development version that you can use from now on that
>> will
>>>> sign with 4D’s build tool.
>>>> 
>>>> In Terminal issue the following:
>>>> 
>>>> Pats-Mac-Pro: ~ pat$ codesign —force —deep -s “Developer ID Application:
>>>> Pat (yourIDHere)” -f /PathTo/Your.4dbase/
>>>> 
>>>> This command goes through all the files in the .dbase directory and
>> clears
>>>> out things like finder  attributes that are not permitted. If this does
>> the
>>>> trick you will see that the the application has been signed. If this
>> works,
>>>> make this your new development version. Subject to adding any new files
>>>> into the .4dbase it should compile, build and sign using the 4D tool.
>>>> 
>>>> Jody
>>>> 
>>>>> On Mar 21, 2019, at 5:52 AM, Pat Bensky via 4D_Tech <
>>>> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Using v17
>>>>> I've added our Apple OSX signing certificate to a client's app built
>> with
>>>>> 4D v17. It compiles and runs just fine.
>>>>> I've added the same certificate to another app, using the same version
>> of
>>>>> 4D and the same compiler settings. However with this one, at the end of
>>>>> compilation, I get the message "Code signature failed".
>>>>> Any suggestions as to why it would work for one app but not for
>> another?
>>>> As
>>>>> far as I can see, the settings are identical.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Pat
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> **
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>>> 
>>> 
>>

Re: Code signing works on one app but fails on another

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Pat:

I struggled with this for a few months. A bunch of research, help from the nug, 
and help from 4D Tech support, I think I found our problem. We will use a 
graphic application to create some graphics (icons / pictures etc). As is 
usual, Apple is getting more strict with each version of the OS for signing. 
They are permitting less ‘noise’ in the files.

Make of copy of your .4dbase to work with that is uncompiled. The goal is to 
make a clean development version that you can use from now on that will sign 
with 4D’s build tool.

In Terminal issue the following:

Pats-Mac-Pro: ~ pat$ codesign —force —deep -s “Developer ID Application: Pat 
(yourIDHere)” -f /PathTo/Your.4dbase/

This command goes through all the files in the .dbase directory and clears out 
things like finder  attributes that are not permitted. If this does the trick 
you will see that the the application has been signed. If this works, make this 
your new development version. Subject to adding any new files into the .4dbase 
it should compile, build and sign using the 4D tool.

Jody

> On Mar 21, 2019, at 5:52 AM, Pat Bensky via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Using v17
> I've added our Apple OSX signing certificate to a client's app built with
> 4D v17. It compiles and runs just fine.
> I've added the same certificate to another app, using the same version of
> 4D and the same compiler settings. However with this one, at the end of
> compilation, I get the message "Code signature failed".
> Any suggestions as to why it would work for one app but not for another? As
> far as I can see, the settings are identical.
> 
> Pat
> 

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Re: Intel Optane P4800x Drives with 4D Server and Thermal Throttling

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Thanks for posting!

> On Mar 16, 2019, at 12:24 PM, Justin Will via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> In case anyone is wondering.  I just installed one of these P4800X drives in 
> our backup server and ran a test conversion of our datafile from v13 to v17.  
> The datafile is 67gb and the index is about 25gb.  4D has 120gb ram allocated 
> and running on Windows Server 2016.
> 
> Previously, I was converting the datafile on a HighPoint SSD7101A-1 NVMe M.2 
> RAID Controller with 4x Samsung 960 Pro drives in Raid 0.  The conversion was 
> taking about 130 minutes.  After swapping out this HighPoint RAID with a 
> single P4800X drive and running the same conversion I was able to cut the 
> conversion down to about 80 minutes.
> 
> I hope this is valuable to somebody else.
> 
> Thanks
> Justin Will
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Re: Can't get to development mode!

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Not sure what you mean, but we have special keys at startup so that we can go 
into Trace mode.

From there we can trace a startup problem, or drop right into coding if we need.

Having a startup crash many years ago instilled doing this. It was stressful 
trying to break into trace mode when needed.

We rarely ever need to use it, but it is there. Behavior created by experience.

Jody

> On Mar 16, 2019, at 7:37 AM, 4dialog via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> Why does so many use special keys to access the developer?
> 
> I have used this small code in a menu method for years and it works...
> 
> If (Current user="Designer")
>   TRACE
> End if 
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Hilsen
> --
> Helge Antonsen
> www.4dialog.no 
> --
> Sent from: http://4d.1045681.n5.nabble.com/4D-Tech-f1376241.html
> **
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Re: Odd thing with iso dates

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

The ‘Z’ stands for Zulu time.

> On Feb 8, 2019, at 9:01 AM, Epperlein, Lutz (agendo) via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> Jeremy is right, mind the "Z" at the end of the date string.
> 
> 
> Regards
> Lutz
> 
>> At a guess, it’s because at that time of year, British Summer Time is 
>> active; so 00:00
>> on 14th August local time is 23:00 on 13th August GMT.
>>> 
>>> 2017-08-13T23:00:00Z

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Re: Coding/Development Style Guide?

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Tom:

We rewrote our shell for v16 from scratch. I also wanted to write complete 
documentation on using the shell too. That of course included naming convention 
for everything (even table names), includes lots of code that is very easy to 
add to code you are writing, and explanation of a lot of the code, and how to 
do things. The manual is just under 300 pages currently.

The naming convention (and the shell) is the result of many years of 
development with multiple developers and thousands of end users. It has been 
put through the wringer a few times over.

Sadly, I have not felt the need to complete the manual (I figure it is about 
50% done).

Jody

Argus Productions Inc.



> On Dec 14, 2018, at 9:28 AM, Tom Benedict via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Anybody out there have a style guide for development that they’ve written? I 
> know a lot of people use shells that either they or others have written and 
> that goes a long way toward supporting ease of maintenance of an app. Have 
> you formalized guidelines on coding style, UI standards, naming conventions 
> etc? I’m especially looking for examples that have worked well in team 
> development.
> 
> Thanks for any input.
> 
> Tom Benedict

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Re: [off] no matter how bad the code you have/wrote/work on....

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Thanks for sharing.


> On Nov 15, 2018, at 10:20 AM, Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
>   
> it can not be this bad
> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18442941
> 
> Chip

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Re: Defining and documenting Objects

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

We rewrote our shell (that has been updated ever few version since 3.0 when I 
write the first shell).

Our goal was to have as few of global, and interprocess variables as possible. 
We got a long way in before we needed more than a few of each. Yes, one of 
those is for the hiding/showing of listbox rows.

We really like the freedom of not having to worry about what I call the 
butterfly effect, where a global or interprocess is changed by somewhere else. 
The code is a bit longer to write, but after a few days it became natural to me.

We love objects, and since ObjectTools was first released (years ago) we have 
been using objects. We really pushed the use of objects in our new shell too.

One thing we did in our new shell was to write a bunch of developer tools to 
make our development lives much better. These are:
- Color Picker
- Method Finder (Name, Premptive, or by search words line in the method)
- Object Viewer (we had this years ago), but now we can display it is a 
Developer of Administrator is signed in. What a great way to peak at what the 
values are.
- DevMacros: This is a graphical code picker. So much easier to add those 
common / or not so common code snipets that one needs often or not so often. 
Now instead of hunting through code, or trying to remember what it is called, I 
go to the DevMacros Dialog.
- Error Counter Window: Through all our code we trap for errors. Some errors 
bring up alerts, but others just get recorded in a log. This window shows us as 
we develop if we have encounter an err without disrupting anything.
- The ObjectViewer tells us much about the computer, Admin, User preferences, 
and what is happening in the program. Being able to send this to us from the 
user’s computer, gives us great tools to investigate a problem.

Now v17 comes out. We (Adam) had already written a dot notation module that 
included arrays. So this is not a big attraction. Now that version 17 is the 
last of the 32 bit 4D versions, our current shell could be useful to us and 
others. We will be rewriting our shell in v17 or v18 to make use of ORDA, 4Ds 
dot notation, and the new language. Oh always something to be keeping up with.

Jody

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Re: Where is best place to save data outside data file

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Jim:

You are right about the tilde in the path name. After I sent the E-Mail and 
noticed it.
What I wrote on startup is that if these directories are not there I create 
them, and use chmod to change the permissions to 666. Then I do the same for my 
three types of log files when I first create them.

Checking with terminal shows that the files didn’t change their permissions.
Yet if I change the permissions in Terminal they are done.

If you say it should work, then I will go back to trying it again, and 
reviewing every character I put in (again)…

Thanks for taking a review of my message and your comments.

BTW: I did get my application code signed finally (with help from Tim Penner). 
Two problems were that there were artifacts in the 4D Volume Desktop.app, and I 
had the wrong type of Apple Certificate. 

In some ways it was good I had so many problems my first time out. I got to 
learn Terminal much better, and learned to trouble shoot signing. After I get 
my notes done, I will be much better prepared for problems.

Thanks again

Jody


> On Oct 10, 2018, at 11:29 AM, Jim Crate via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> On Oct 9, 2018, at 8:50 AM, Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
>> 
>> I love writing logs to the local computer while it is running. These log 
>> files are for the programmers to know what is occurring on the computer. 
>> Typically these logs are turned off when there are no problems in the 
>> application. They are used extensively when an application is first handed 
>> to the users in Alpha or beta form. This way we know much better where the 
>> problems are, often being able to fix the issue before they even report it 
>> to us. These files do not contain sensitive data.
>> 
>> Last week I decided I should actually test this out with switching computer 
>> users. 
>> 
>> On the MacOS we have been writing this information we write to the Shared 
>> folder. The pathname would be:
>> 
>> ~/Users/Shared/ApplicationName/Logs/LogFileName.txt
> 
> This is probably just an artifact of writing the email, but you should remove 
> the tilde in front of the path. When you convert from posix path, the tilde 
> will cause the path to become: 
> 
> /Users//Users/Shared/ApplicationName/Logs/LogFileName.txt
> 
> 
>> This has been working great when I am signed in as myself, or if the 
>> computer user does not changed. 
>> A quick check in Terminal shows me the directories and files are created, 
>> and I can write to them as needed.
>> -rw-r—r—
>> Or in Octal format 644
>> 
>> This is fine for the currently signed in user, but not for other users.
>> 
>> Not a problem I am thinking, I will just call terminal from within 4D at 
>> startup and use the chmod command to change the permissions of the folders 
>> and files if they are not read write for all users.
>> 
>> I suspect I am doing something stupid because it is not working.
> 
> Assuming you are actually putting the files in /Users/Shared/
> 
> 1. You have to change permissions for the directories you created too.
> 2. You can only change permissions if you are the user who created those 
> directories/files.
> 
> So if you run chmod when you create the files/directories, it should work 
> fine. If you’re running chmod at startup when logging in as another user, it 
> won’t work.
> 
> Jim Crate
> 

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Re: Where is best place to save data outside data file

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Chip:

Ya, I saw my phone number there as I clicked send…

I will try the 4D Folder and see how that works out.

Thanks

Jody


> On Oct 9, 2018, at 10:29 AM, Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> I believe that Get 4D Folder works for this sort of thing
> 
> I would think either: 
> 4D folder, 
>   or
> Log folder
> 
> Chip

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Where is best place to save data outside data file

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

In my previous 26+ years of 4D coding I did not have to concern myself with the 
same computer being used by different computer users (By this, I mean the user 
signed into the computer). Part of that was that long ago, people just didn’t 
sign out of the computer, and then the next person sign in as themselves. For 
most of our users our application looked after the security, and our 
application was the only thing running on the workstations. So even when 
tracking, logging of who changed what, and security of who could access what, 
was all handled within our application. Therefore the ‘computer user’ was never 
changed. 

Now having left that world, I am now confronted with having to deal with the 
very likely situation where the people on the computer will be signing out from 
the computer when they walk away, and when a different person uses the computer 
they will be signing in as themselves.

I love writing logs to the local computer while it is running. These log files 
are for the programmers to know what is occurring on the computer. Typically 
these logs are turned off when there are no problems in the application. They 
are used extensively when an application is first handed to the users in Alpha 
or beta form. This way we know much better where the problems are, often being 
able to fix the issue before they even report it to us. These files do not 
contain sensitive data.

Last week I decided I should actually test this out with switching computer 
users. 

On the MacOS we have been writing this information we write to the Shared 
folder. The pathname would be:

~/Users/Shared/ApplicationName/Logs/LogFileName.txt

On Windows it would be:

~/Users/Public/ApplicationName/LogFileName.txt

This has been working great when I am signed in as myself, or if the computer 
user does not changed. 
A quick check in Terminal shows me the directories and files are created, and I 
can write to them as needed.
 -rw-r—r—
Or in Octal format 644

This is fine for the currently signed in user, but not for other users.

Not a problem I am thinking, I will just call terminal from within 4D at 
startup and use the chmod command to change the permissions of the folders and 
files if they are not read write for all users.

I suspect I am doing something stupid because it is not working.

Questions:

1. Is this the right location I should be saving this kind of information?
2. Is my logic and steps correct and I am obviously not writing my terminal 
commands right?
3. Or, rather is it - Dah, no don’t do it that way do it this way?

Thanks

Jody


Jody Bevan
Developer

+1 587-487-6120



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Re: How to get the current time in a specified time zone

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Pat:

Thanks. I will try it out. I will see if then I can figure out getting it for 
the different time zones without having it hard coded in.

Jody


> On Sep 24, 2018, at 4:28 PM, Pat Bensky via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Using v16:
> I've figured out how to get the current GMT time using cURL. (Code at the
> bottom if anybody is interested).
> Now I need to get the current time in a different time zone - eg in France.
> Any ideas how to do that?
> 
> 
> 
> ==
> 
>  // GetTimeGMT
> 
>  // Gest the current time in GMT from Google
> 
>  // 21/09/18 pb
> 
> *C_LONGINT*(*$0*)
> 
> $input:="curl -I https://www.google.com/";  // this gets GMT from Google
> 
> $empty:=""
> 
> *LAUNCH EXTERNAL PROCESS*($input;$empty;$output;$error)
> 
> *$0*:=0
> 
> *If* ($output#"")
> 
> $pos:=*Position*("GMT";$output)
> 
> *If* ($pos>0)
> 
> $time:=*Substring*($output;$pos-9;8)
> 
> $pos:=*Position*(":";$time)
> 
> *If* ($pos>0)
> 
> *$0*:=*Num*(*Substring*($time;1;$pos-1))
> 
> *End if*
> 
> *End if*
> 
> *End if*
> 
> -- 
> *
> CatBase - Top Dog in Data Publishing
> tel: +44 (0) 207 118 7889
> w: http://www.catbase.com
> skype: pat.bensky
> *
> **
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
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Re: Creating a form object to use as dynamic form

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Kirk:

I agree with you. Not many programmers can say that they maintained a 
programming environment for 3 decades with mostly smooth upgrades of not 
loosing past code all the way through. That in itself is a hats off time. 

Lauruant and team are in a whole different level of programming than I am. I 
just know what I would like to be able to do to meet our client’s needs, and 
then pass that along to the team of wizards at 4D. They have been kind enough 
to listen to me before, and I am watching as they are delivering it. Of course 
I was not the only person asking - so I am not so naive to think they did it 
just for me.

I think this is the biggest change in 4D since I got on board at 2.0.10. 
Fortunately we have be using ‘object’ code as much as we could for 20 years so 
the transition will be steep not as steep as it would have been had we not been 
using ‘object’ code before.

It is exciting time to be coding in 4D.

Jody


> On Sep 24, 2018, at 4:18 PM, Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Jody,
> You are correct about the form editor. I've been dabbling with building
> even a simplified form editor and it's not a trivial task.
> 
> On the other hand my work with dynamic forms has shown me the mechanics of
> the current form editor and the approach employed by the dynamic forms part
> is very different. I suspect it's going to be a tough circle to square.
> 
> But frankly I never thought Laruant would be able to make something like
> ORDA either so I suspect there's something in the works.
> 
> On Mon, Sep 24, 2018 at 7:57 AM Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> ... but my hope is that this is just a necessary 1st step to being able
>> to create a form using the normal 4D Form Editor, Form Method, Object
>> Methods and then be able to save them as ‘text’ that can then be sent to
>> clients.
>> 

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Re: Creating a form object to use as dynamic form

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Rudy:

I agree with you. You think Belgium has few courses - try Belize!

I am with you trying to master it is a challenge. So much new in v17. 
Fortunately we can still code as we did, and learn in snippets as we have time. 
I do hope they have a course happening around the USA on this new stuff because 
I will certainly want to get up there to take it. I doubt they will do Belize - 
LOL.

Jody Bevan
Argus Productions Inc.


> On Sep 24, 2018, at 3:03 PM, Two Way Communications via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> Thanks Jody.
> 
> 4D's progress is actually quite stunning this last few years.
> 
> The downside is that, at least here in Belgium, it is hard to get the 
> required training in order to master all of that. So, I get stuck quite a lot 
> lately with ORDA, 4D Write pRo, 4D for iOS and all the other new stuff.
> Reading the docs and looking at the examples only get you so far…
> 
> But I’m sure we will get there in the end.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Rudy Mortier
> Two Way Communications bvba 
> 

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Re: Creating a form object to use as dynamic form

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Sorry Rudy, not an answer to your question, but topical I think.

Being able to create a sophisticated form via code is a fantastic feature. It 
is like the coding I did back in 1982/1983. Back when I first got my hands on 
my own copy of 4D version 2.0.10  the Graphical form editor was such a 
liberating way of creating forms, compared to the way I needed to do it in 
Pascal.

This really is a great feature, but my hope is that this is just a necessary 
1st step to being able to create a form using the normal 4D Form Editor, Form 
Method, Object Methods and then be able to save them as ‘text’ that can then be 
sent to clients.

We have often had the need to send multiple forms to different clients for them 
to run.  Then the client needs / forced to (by regulations) have a new version 
of the form. That is great, but they still have lots of data that they collect 
via the old form and need to be able to display that data in the form they used 
at the time. 

In the last major application we did, we have ~ 10,000 forms with each client 
having about 150 of them. Each client though would have a different set of 
forms. When 4D announced this feature I hoped that it will lead to fulfilling 
this need. Then as 4D developers we can provide a rich, consistent interface 
within the product rather than having to resort to forms in WebAreas, PDFs, 
etc. This will help us 4D developers stick within our expertise of 4D and be 
more productive.

Jody Bevan
Argus Development Inc.


> On Sep 24, 2018, at 8:44 AM, Two Way Communications via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> I can’t figure out how to do this … 
> 
> Using a dynamic form, I am trying to build a generic list of records to 
> display to the user and to allow him to select 1 record.
> 
> I used the example from the tech note on how to create a dynamic form that 
> shows a listbox.
> 
> To build this $form object variable, the commands New object and others are 
> used.
> 
> This listbox object is added to the $page object in the $form object, which 
> will be used in the DIALOG command.
> 
> 
> $obj:=New object("type";"listbox";"listboxType";"collection";\ 
> "dataSource";$colName;"left";0;"top";0;"width";$width+15;"height";$height)
> 
> 
> 
> $page:=New object("objects";New object("myListBox";$obj)) $form:=New 
> object(“pages";New collection(Null;$page))
> 
> $form:=New object("windowTitle";"Select a 
> Map:";"windowMinWidth";500;"windowMinHeight";300;"pages";New 
> collection(Null;$page))
> 
> Now, this dynamic form only shows a listbox, and I want to add a button to 
> the form. I assume this button object has to be added to the ‘Objects’ object 
> in $page.
> 
> But, how do I do that? I tried object arrays and collections, but neither of 
> them produces the correct result. 
> 
> 
> Secondly, the listbox displays an entity selection. How do I get the row 
> number that has been selected?
> 
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Rudy Mortier
> Two Way Communications bvba 
> 

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Signing a MacOS Standalone Application - XCode version 9.2

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

I found out a new client upgraded their Macs to a later version of the OS (High 
Sierra). 

Of course the MacOS app I sent them needs to get signed with an Apple 
Certificate.

I researched the 4D KnowledgeBase, read the tech note on doing it and it seemed 
easy to use. 
I downloaded XCode from Apple.
Built my Standalone application.

Launched XCode - yike! the interface is very much different. So no following 
the step by step instructions like I thought I would be able to do.

Does anyone have step by step instructions for signing a built app with this 
version of XCode, or one similar to it they are willing to share?

Otherwise I will be digging into the XCode documentation (where ever that is) 
and trying to make sense of what I need to do.

Thanks for your time…

Jody
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Re: v16 - playing videos stored in the database

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Thanks Janie, Tai, and  Keisuke for your suggestions. We will look at these and 
decide which way we want to go.

Sincerely

Jody Bevan


> On Sep 17, 2018, at 11:00 AM, Tai Bui via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Perhaps the following two Tech Tips can give you an idea on how to implement 
> your feature:
> 
> If HTML5 is available:
> http://kb.4d.com/assetid=77517
> 
> 
> If Youtube is available:
> http://kb.4d.com/assetid=77911
> 
> Best Regards,
> -Tai B.
> 

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Re: v16 - playing videos stored in the database

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Tai:

Thanks, I will take a read through these. In the case for the current client I 
am wanting this for it is a one off application so having the videos stored 
locally (on their server) is likely the better way. 

For our Shell training videos the other storage off site is the better way to 
go for sure.

Thanks

Jody Bevan

> On Sep 17, 2018, at 11:00 AM, Tai Bui via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Perhaps the following two Tech Tips can give you an idea on how to implement 
> your feature:
> 
> If HTML5 is available:
> http://kb.4d.com/assetid=77517
> 
> 
> If Youtube is available:
> http://kb.4d.com/assetid=77911
> 
> Best Regards,
> -Tai B.
> 
> 
> 
> **
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v16 - playing videos stored in the database

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

In years gone by, I used to provide this feature through an Escape plugin.

It seems to me that one should be able to do this through a WebArea. I am 
obviously getting thick, but when I read the Web Area Language Reference I seem 
to be missing a lot.

I thought it would be something simple like use a command like WAOpen URL and 
pass in the field in the structure that contains the video. Since I didn’t see 
that, the way we used to do it was to download the video locally, and then load 
the pass in the file location from there. 

Am I on the right track, of missing the boat totally.

Some clues / pointers would be appreciated.

Thanks

Jody
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Re: Help?

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Ken:

This is why with ALL our code, we have right near the very beginning of our 
code the following:

If(Caps Lock Down)
Trace
End if

Of course this does not work in compiled mode. Many many years ago I learned 
the lesson like you did. This is now standard code.

Jody


> On Sep 10, 2018, at 8:02 PM, Kenneth Geiger via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Randy,
> 
> After many tries, the dialog to select the process to trace just disappears 
> too fast.
> 
> Fortunately, I been blessed (cursed) with almost total recall so I’ve just 
> about completed re-coding what I lost.
> 
> Thanks again,
> 
> Ken
> 

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Set Environment Variable

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

I am using the Launch External Process to get information via wmic. Of course 
the cmd line window pops up for a second. I would like to stop this. The Set 
Environment Variable command is supposed to do this. Of course though, I need 
to know the environment variable to do this with. I am having difficulty 
finding what this is.

I am running Windows 10 64bit, but clients are running anywhere from Windows 7 
and up.

Any pointers on finding out what the environment variable is?

Set Environment Variable(varName;varValue)

Thanks

Jody


Jody Bevan
Developer

Argus Productions Inc. 
+1 587-487-6120



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Re: New record numbering system and CALL WORKER

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Chuck:

That is exactly what we do for our code. Has served us well for all our sites. 
We can have 200+ current users on the system, importing records from labs (thus 
needing lots of counters quickly), and never noticed a problem with the system. 
For those counters we do not wanted to have one go missing we have a BLOB to 
hold for use next time. 

The reason we use our own counters rather than 4D’s auto assigned number is 
that we are often importing records from previous systems. We can easily roll 
back the counters when and where needed. We also like to put a good block of 
unused numbers between what was imported and what has been created by the 
system. That way looking at the unique numbers the Admins and us can know 
quickly where the record came from. This is specifically important when the 
system is first used.

Jody

Jody Bevan
Developer

Argus Productions Inc. 
+1 587-487-6120



> On Aug 26, 2018, at 7:37 PM, Chuck Miller via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> OK i have done this many times with a table. You have multiple records in the 
> table, one for each id you need. I usually make that records key name 
> ([table]field). If you have to keep track of released numbers, you can add a 
> blob field. I would not be adding object fields as you can not access using 
> SQL. I also have never figured out why you need a semaphore. I think in olden 
> days (v1, 1.5 etc) you needed to slow this down to some extent.
> 
> You have be cognizant of whether you are inside a transaction or not. these 
> queries and updates are blazing since you always have relatively few records 
> in the table. If you have 500 keys you will have 500 records. Run method. 
> Query for key. Load record if locked wait retry load. See if you have any 
> returned numbers otherwise set next number, save record, unload record return 
> it.
> 
> Pat when you say you need to use all numbers what happens in the following 
> scenario. You create a record and it gets ID 100, for the next months you 
> create 10,000 more records. You then decide to delete 1000, would you reuse 
> that number. or only reuse if cancelling out of creation. If the later why 
> not simply assign right before you save
> 
> Regards
> 
> 
> Chuck
> 
> 

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OPs - my bad

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

I made a comment that has not shown up on the nug yet that the component 
documentation didn’t explain what the ‘Matrix’ was before using it. After 10 
more minutes of frustration I discovered it was located in the Component 
Overview section - which I missed when I thought I was starting from the 
beginning of the documentation - my bad, thus I must apologize.

Jody
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Writing Components

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

I really want to place a bunch of our code / forms into a component. It will 
make it much easier to install into other systems, and to update that code / 
forms as into older designed system that use an older version of the component. 
Of course it also protects what could otherwise be unprotected code.

What sources of good information are there other than 4D’s Component 
documentation in the manuals? I expect I will comb through the inug and 
Knowledge base when I run into problems. From the number of questions I see 
here, it looks like the component pitfalls are not documented well. I know as I 
started to read the documentation - within the first page they introduced a 
term ‘matrix databases’ that was not defined as to how they are using it. The 
sentence then became meaningless - hate writing like that.

It is a great concept, and has matured over the years, and many are using it 
successfully. It is past due for me to jump into that pool too.

Thanks

Jody
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E-Mail in 4D

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

The last time I wrote an E-Mail client with 4D was circuit 4D v11 and into v12. 
It worked great. I left the programming world for a break for 2 years, and then 
got back in.

Now I am using 16R6, and will likely move into the v17. releases for a product 
I am working on.
From my review today, and lurking over the last several months, it looks like 
not much has changed within 4D to dramatically change from what I did back 
then. It does sound like the likes of google mail has done some changes that 
will likely cause me some grief.

For those of you that kept in the game, and advancing is this your take on it?


Jody Bevan
Developer
Argus Productions Inc. 
+1 587-487-6120



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Re: Changes to variable initialization in v16?

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Noah:

Can I make a suggestion for you that I and many others here do in their code:

1. Have very defined naming convention of your variables in code. 
2. The naming convention must clearly show the type of variable.
3. Every method must declare its local variables.
4. Every process variable must be declared int the Compiler_ProcVar method
5. Every Interprocess variable must be declared in the Compiler_IP_Var method
6. Anytime you start a new process ensure that you call the Compiler_ProcVar 
method.
7. When you start the application call the Compiler_IP_Var method.
8. For every method ensure to add an appropriate entry in the Compiler_Methods.


Certainly this is daunting if you have not done it before and you have a lot of 
code. Once you get it done though it makes things work for you so much better.
Your code will work more consistently.

An added advantage is that you can write a method that you can run each time to 
modify a method (in the sense of adding or modifying) a variable.
This method will go through through your code, delete all the variable 
declarations, and then recreate them as appropriate and place them in a 
preferred order.
This makes coding so much simpler. I now do not have to spend the time writing 
out the compiler declarations, or managing the modification or deletion of 
them. The method does it all.

I know this does not get you through what you need right now, but it is likely 
what you need to get done ASAP.

Sincerely

Jody Bevan
Argus Production Inc.


> On Jul 31, 2018, at 3:46 PM, Noah via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> Good afternoon,
> We are in the process of converting an application from 15 to 16 and one of
> the first errors that we have encountered came from a line that was setting
> the query destination into a variable.
> 
> The variable was declared in the on Load form event, and this code has
> worked without a problem for many versions back.
> 
> I was able to quickly bypass the runtime error by moving the variable
> declaration out of the conditional block which only ran once (when the form
> loaded) into the form method itself (not wrapped in a conditional). Rather
> than blindly make a change, we would like to have a solid understanding of
> what changed from 15 to 16.
> 
> I have combed over the changes listed here:
> http://doc.4d.com/4Dv16/4D/16.3/Conversion-to-4D-v16.100-3673248.en.html
> specifically:
> http://doc.4d.com/4Dv16/4D/16.3/Changes-in-behavior.200-3673250.en.html
> 
> 

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Re: Tabbed design windows are the best

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

I will have to read the upgrade notes again to see how to do that Chip. Having 
5-10 different tabbed windows would work well I think.

Jody

> On Jul 30, 2018, at 7:36 AM, Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Ive not used it -
> but
> 
> based on current work style..
> - I can see where it could be useful to keep related methods in the 
> same window pane
> - I can see how I would HATE it as I at time have 50+ windows open 
> which would be useless in a single tabbed window.
> 
> I expect I'll use an amalgam of the two, have 5 - 10 windows open with 
> 2-10 tabs each.
> 
> Chip

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What Source do you use

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

I need to have a system with Countries, States (province, Parish, Regions), and 
then Communities.

In the past I would typically use Wikipedia to get the information. I did this 
to get a few for development and testing. Now I would like to fill this out for 
about 20 countries.
If the Zip / Postal Codes are available too that would be even better.

In Canada you could purchase from Canada Post a list that would be updated each 
month (there the Postal Code can change).

What source do you use for this?

Thanks

 


Jody Bevan
Developer

Argus Productions Inc. 
+1 587-487-6120



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Re: Tabbed design windows are the best

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

I tried it out for about 4 days. 

What I liked:
1. uncluttered desktop.
2. The forms / methods were always in one location.

What I didn’t like:
1. Often when I code I will have 2 or 3 windows open that I will be looking at 
to get object names, or match the flow of code in another method.
Trying to do this with the Tabbed interface is way too slow. Not just a 
glance over with my eyes, but keystrokes or mouse clicks.

I went back to letting me have windows side by side to follow the another 
method while I write another.

Jody


> On Jul 29, 2018, at 11:14 AM, Jeffrey Kain via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Now that our application is 64-bit ready, even though we're still deploying 
> mainly in 32-bit mode I've been developing in 64-bit. I have to say that I 
> really find tabbed windows for methods and forms to be incredibly productive. 
> Anyone else really enjoying it?
> 
> Hopefully it comes to Windows someday. They're really missing out (no tabbed 
> windows AND no exposé).
> 

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Re: v17 PDF-Manuals

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Sorry that I comment on your thread. I didn’t see the Jorg only sign.


> On Jul 27, 2018, at 3:23 PM, Jörg Knebel via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Jody,
> 
>> On 27 Jul 2018, at 23:32 AEST, Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com 
>> <mailto:4d_tech@lists.4d.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> I am good with the HTML pages.
> 
> Good for you.
> 
> Everyone is different!
> 
> I demand PDF-manuals!
> 
> HTML is a fu piece of sh** local and online.
> 
> 
> Regards
> Jörg Knebel, M.Eng. - 4D Developer since 1991
> TTT Data Systems Pty Ltd
> Phone: +61 (0)2 6601 7453
> www.tttdatasystems.com.au <http://www.tttdatasystems.com.au/>
> **
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Re: v17 PDF-Manuals

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

I am good with the HTML pages. Especially when we can download them to run 
locally. I have a blazing fast 2MB download and 512k upload internet speed. 
They work fine for me for lookup of commands.

I just finished 2 weeks of internet down. Running the browser in Offline mode 
and accessing the HTML pages was a work saver.

Do I like the PDFs too - yes. They are great for reading away from the 
workstation on my iPad. Great for light reading on the road. Refresh my mind, 
and learn little nuances of new versions.

Jody

> On Jul 27, 2018, at 1:04 AM, Paul Dennis via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> I couldn't agree more the html files are rubbish, poor navigation page
> refresh etc etc. A return to the V11 style formatting and fonts would also
> help. I wish designers would understand it its all about ease of use and
> readability. 
> Paul

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Re: standard action for design mode not working in 17.0

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

John:

I encountered this too. I believe the command changed from the v16R series to a 
slight difference in v17. The constant had changed. I looked it up in v17 and 
just used the new command.

Jody
> On Jul 14, 2018, at 8:18 AM, John DeSoi via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> I converted a structure from 16.3HF4 to 17.0. A button that worked in version 
> 16 to open design mode (standard action = design), does not work in version 
> 17. It shows the list of files application window, but keeps the startup 
> menubar set for the runtime environment. 
> 
> Anyone seen or solved this? For now, I changed the database setting to 
> startup in Design instead of Runtime as a work-around. 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> John DeSoi, Ph.D.

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Re: Objects without Stylesheets suddenly displayed as Wingdings!

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Chuck:

That sounds like great code module to have in a developer tool kit. If you are 
willing to share, I would appreciate a copy.

Thanks

jody


> On Jul 12, 2018, at 8:12 AM, Chuck Miller via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> I have code that will report on any object on forms with no font or style 
> sheets assigned
> Please advise if you want it
> 
> Regards 
> 
> Chuck 
> Sent from my iPhone

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Re: Cannot delete if related many issue

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Arnaud de Montard:

Since 4D v2.0.10 I have not used it (probably not in 4D way back then). When we 
used to permit actual deletions but we handled all record deletions in our code 
especially for related records that also needed to go. Now we do not permit 
actual deletions - we just flag records as deleted.

Therefore I cannot comment on the feature other than what is in the manual. 

Jody

> On Jul 7, 2018, at 5:20 AM, Arnaud de Montard via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>> Le 5 juil. 2018 à 13:12, Arnaud de Montard via 4D_Tech 
>> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> a écrit :
>> 
>> I have a database in which Deletion Control is set as in the object for a 
>> lot of relations. Today, deleting 10 records in a table having ~2 billion 
>> records took an incredible time, cache as shark teeth, unable to connect and 
>> so on. Finally we had to kill the server. After setting Deletion Control to 
>> "none", DELETE SELECTION becomes instantaneous. The deleted records had no 
>> "sons". Searching if there are sons with QUERY(sons;foreign key=primary key) 
>> takes a few milliseconds. MSC says everything's OK. 4D v14r5. 
>> 
>> Does someone have noticed issues with Deletion Control as "Cannot delete if 
>> related many"?
> 
> No answer… 
> No one uses deletion control? 
> 
> -- 
> Arnaud de Montard 

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Re: Minimalism in Graphics

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Fast enhancement request!

Jody 
> On Jul 6, 2018, at 10:16 AM, Jeffrey Kain via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> The color is back in the debugger in v17, just FYI.
> 
>> On Jul 6, 2018, at 11:54 AM, Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I was disappointed when I moved from 16R2 to 16R6 to see that 4D Inc had 
>> removed all the colour icons from their interface. As a user of an 
>> application appropriate colour helps me recognize an object quickly. A bit 
>> of splash of colour also enlivens the interface. 
> 

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Minimalism in Graphics

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

What do you think and do?

I know that this ‘trend’ is started by the designers at Apple. When Apple 
starts a design trend then many thousands of developers follow it. To me, this 
trend is just like a fashion trend, rather than a functional trend. Yes I have 
read that the ‘reason’ is to let design take a back seat to content.

I agree that the interface should not be coloured up, and have moving objects, 
etc (like early web pages got when new HTML features came out). These are 
distractions. An interface should have a very consistent logical design to it, 
including the buttons, icons, and the colours chosen. This is the way we write 
our application and have these guidelines written out in our design standards. 
This design, and design guidelines come with our shell and shell documentation.

I was disappointed when I moved from 16R2 to 16R6 to see that 4D Inc had 
removed all the colour icons from their interface. As a user of an application 
appropriate colour helps me recognize an object quickly. A bit of splash of 
colour also enlivens the interface. 

Of course who am I, compared to the very successful Apple (in 1992 I would not 
have thought I would be saying that about Apple). They must know better than I, 
or do they.

Again - I think this is just a fashion and we will see it circle back to more 
colourful applications that are more ‘joyful’ to work with.

What do you think, and do in your development?

 


Jody Bevan
Developer

Argus Productions Inc. 
+1 587-487-6120

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Re: Date entry

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Pat:

I was a lot of work. Especially going through a large application and changing 
it all over. We got forced into it by regulation of supporting different date 
formats across different government regulatory regions. So we decided to just 
do it the flexible way and provide many more features than needed. I noticed 
when training new users how I felt  the relief on not having to continually 
remind them of the date format. 

Now with our new business, most certainly starting over with our shell and 
having this from the beginning of each new project is much easier.

Jody


> On Jul 5, 2018, at 9:01 AM, Pat Bensky via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Thanks Jody - yes I can follow all that, no problem :)
> Sounds like a fair bit of work though, which I would prefer to avoid ...
> 
> PB
> 
> 

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Re: Date entry

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Pat:

In Canada every possible date format was used by different clients. Therefore 
we had to write our own date handler. Essentially we handle it this way:

1. We let the system administrator set the format for all dates to be 
displayed. This includes all the ways 4D has built in way, but also in other 
ways that silly Canadians have dreamt up.

2. Where ever a date is displayed we use a Alphanumeric variable. We take the 
date as stored by 4D and we run it through our utility method to create a 
string in the format that the system administrator has set it to display. In 
this way no matter how a workstation is configured, the date is always 
displayed in a consistent format in our system.

3. The next nasty issue is date entry. For this we permit two options:

a) The system administrator sets up an entry filter using our 
interface. Nothing fancy, the user must enter a fully formatted date, OR
b) They decide to use our date entry system which makes for very quick 
entry of dates. I may be attributing this feature to the wrong person,
 but I think I read about  it in a Dimensions article by Dave 
Baton (anyone correct me if I am wrong). 
Over the years we have enhanced it a lot to make date entries 
very quick.
The variable on screen where it is entered is a Alpha variable. 
They can enter things like T, 5d, 6m, -1W, etc to get a fully formatted date 
that
our system will accept to turn into a 4D Date. They can also 
enter 2016, or 16 and tab out to get todays date but in 2016. If they enter 
2018-12, they will get
a date for December 12, of the current year.
c) We also have a button to take them to a Calendar ‘widget’ for the 
mousers in the user base.

In all the entry examples above we have a method that runs and makes a 
properly formatted date that 4D will accept, place that date in the database.
The system takes that 4D formatted date, and makes the display date.

This certainly adds processing time when displaying thousands of record 
in a listbox (i.e. our 1 form Listbox for an output of all tables). We have 
fine tuned this
code in our v16 shell so that once compiled it runs along nicely. 4D 
version 17 with it’s more intelligent Listbox will speed this up as it only 
deals with the rows
that are visible on screen.

If that makes sense great - if not let me know where I lost you and I will try 
to explain better.

Jody


> On Jul 5, 2018, at 4:50 AM, Pat Bensky via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Jody,
> I'm using v16 and having the following problem with date formats:
> On a UK system, dates in fields and list boxes are incorrectly displayed in
> the US format. But when you click into a date field, it changes to the UK
> format!
> 
> How do you manage this?
> 
> Pat
> 
> On Sun, 10 Jun 2018 at 15:46, Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> Bob:
>> 
>> Nasty date formats. About 15 years ago we created our own tool for the
>> date entry, and display in 4D. The dates are always stored in date fields,
>> but we let the user define the way the dates get displayed. This way it
>> does not matter what the computer’s region or date settings are. The format
>> set in the application controls the display of the date. It also resulted
>> in some great tools for quick entry of dates. Still loving that way of
>> doing thing in v16.
>> 
>> Jody
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 9, 2018, at 5:49 PM, Robert McKeever via 4D_Tech <
>> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 4D V15.4, Mac OS 10.13.4
>>> 
>>> A site that uses 4D Server. Mostly mini’s as clients. Has been working
>> fine for years. Then growth, so someone brought in some PC’s. Then they
>> scrounged around and now all minis. But, since we are in Canada, sometimes
>> when the OS is loaded anew, this select Canadian English keyboard instead
>> of US. So, date entry gets set to -MM-DD instead of MM-DD-.
>>> 
>>> Dates display fine, regardless of format. But, on a couple of machines,
>> you can not enter dates. I take my record, place the cursor in the field,
>> and type - it moves the cursor along the character string, but nothing
>> changes. So, they just go to another machine that ‘works’ and does the
>> entry there. Started a couple of weeks ago.
>>> 
>>> So, why, and how to fix it?
>>> 
>>> Changing the date format in the system preferences changes the way it is
>> displayed, but still no entry.
>>> 
>>> _
>>> Bob McKeever  http://www.mswl.com <
>> http://www.mswl.com/>
>>