Re: [9fans] using acme/Mail from plan9port in Linux
when I'm reading the mail on my imap server with nedmail, and I want to save a message, I get : 3 w /tmp/3 !message disappeared I have no idea if this is related but in the early days with gmail it would automaticially remove messages when they where downloaded so they disappeared as fast as you tried to read them. Perhaps your imap server is doing somthing similar? -Steve
Re: [9fans] using acme/Mail from plan9port in Linux
Did gmail stop doing that? I think there as a fix, perhaps gmail now supports imap, or perhaps there was an option to disable this mode of operation? I rarely use my gmail account, prefering nedmail ☺ -Steve
[9fans] cifs and vista
For anyone using cifs on plan9. MS appear to have changed somthing in the ntlmv2 auth protocol that cifs uses by default which means aux/cifs will not connect to Vista machines (and windows 7 boxes I assume). cifs will connect using ntlm auth (i.e. ntlm v1) which is less secure but still reasonable - if you are using it over the internet sewer then ssh may keep your feet clean. ntlm is selected using the -a option to cifs: aux/cifs -a ntlm VistMachine -Steve
Re: [9fans] Install CD hanging on probing floppy
I have been playing with an 2004 vintage P4 machine which similarly hangs at probing floppy... but after a long time, perhaps 30 secs it continues. Have you tried waiting for this long? Have you tried Erik's alternative distribution: ftp://ftp.quanstro.net/other/plan9.iso.bz2 It has subtly different drivers and might suit your machine better. -Steve
Re: [9fans] recreational programming of an evening
What's really missing is a whole book on hands on OS hacking along the lines of the Art of Electronics or SICP (Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs). John Lyons book taught me a heck of a lot. http://www.peerllc.com/ Perhaps its publishers might be interested in such a thing? -Steve
Re: [9fans] more little hardware
Honestly, I think it would loads of fun to do, but I probably wouldn't use it myself once done, I don't have the free time to do it, and I don't know of a way to do it for work... The story of my (plan9) life... I should add that there is also lots of stuff I _would_ use that I don't have time to write. my big question is How do I get my employer to need plan9? -Steve
Re: [9fans] DNS dynamic update
It looks from my reading from of dhcpd.c that you could just tweek windows (the registry I assume) and make windows ask for the domain, in which case dhcpd should supply it. If you hate this idea then I think the change to add windows specific dhcp options would be easy - there is already a special case for plan9 clients. FWIW there is another weirdness of windows, the windows DHCP server doesn't communicate with the DNS server on windows, it expects the client to send an Inform packet to the DHCP server telling it of the clients chosen name. -Steve
Re: [9fans] sdiahci.c driver
I didn't use your new driver, because I'd like to check the present state of being distributed Plan 9 system. Why so little number of people tries it? I am using Eriks SATA driver I notice another problem, too. The vga cannot be used as more than 8 depth, which I tested only nvidia and vesa drivers. Anyone tested it? I have 1600x1200x16 at work on an nvidia card. -Steve
Re: [9fans] Datakit documentation
This is the paper contains detail of the low level protocol. I have a paper copy but due to moving house that is out of reach for quite a while. A. G. Fraser, Early Experiment with Asynchronous Time Division Networks, IEEE Networks, pp. 12-26, Jan. 1993. -Steve
[9fans] nb—search and index notes in files by k eyword
perhaps of interest is seft [http://ww2.cs.mu.oz.au/~oldk/seft/] which works well for me. It is unusual in that it allows all the usual text searching tools (including AltaVista's long lamented () near operator, but does not use indices, it does it the hard way. Before you dismiss this as slow, its just a matter of exactly what your problem is. Mine is a relatively small amount of rather dynamic data. if you want it I oprted it to APE here: contrib/install steve/seft -Steve
Re: [9fans] nb—search and index notes in files by k eyword
why would we go for slower than grep? wouldn't it be simpler put a new queryish interface on grep á la 9fans.net/archive? what am i missing? It allows a subtly different set of query tools which make sense to less regexp savvy people I work with, and it prints results with contex which our grep doesn't (yet? :-). -Steve
[9fans] exec permission on plan9
Who enforces the exec bit on plan9? It appears to me (though my code may be buggy) that the file server is expected to enforce the exec bit in the file's modes when a file is opened with OEXEC. I would have expected rc(1) to have checked the mode and not to have tried to exec() the file if the exec bit in the file's mode is not set. Is it another case of This is Plan9 not Unix or perhaps I am mis-remembering that too? -Steve
Re: [9fans] exec permission on plan9
I should have explained my problem. I build tools for an embedded system with gcc under windows, I cd into that directory (using my cifs) client and type ls and get an invalid exec format error; I swear and type /bin/ls and get what I expect. I think my cifs client should fail all attempts to open files with OEXEC as it is unlikely that I will be storing plan9 executables on windows. Thanks for the help guys. -Steve
Re: [9fans] exec permission on plan9
is there a file named ls in the cifs directory? if not, wouldn't the bug be that the cifs server is allowing an open of a file that's not there? There is a file in the directory, its just not a plan9 executable, its an ARM ELF file. -Steve
Re: [9fans] How 'bout a 9 USER site?
Also, for a while the Tokyo Inferno/Plan 9 User Group (tip9ug.jp) ran a service where pretty much anybody could get an account on a Plan 9 machine. They seem down now... if it's not temporary, something like that could be a real service. I still use it from time to time, and though I agree its down at the moment but it has been reliable for many years now. -Steve
Re: [9fans] How 'bout a 9 USER site?
Is there an Amazon S3 based 9P server? Just thinking out loud... I thought brucee had one? -Steve
[9fans] leak(1) problem
I have a memory leak in my code, and am using leak(1) to track it but I have reached an en-passe. Leak only reports strdup(2) as being the source of the leak. I added a setmalloctag(2) call directly after the call to strdup(2) but leak continues to report the strdup(2) address rather than its bounding function. Is this expected or have I done something silly? -Steve
Re: [9fans] Binary format
And another important feature of shared libraries is, that when some lib is updated, importing programs dont have to be recompiled. What's the Plan9 solution here ? We recompile the relevant executables. The speed of kencc makes this much less painful than you might expect. It also happens very rarely on plan9 - I cannot remember the last time we had a big pull. It also neatly sidesteps the issue that different applications can need different versions of a single shared library. This is a real problem on some OSs (see 9fans passim). -Steve
Re: [9fans] Better Safe Than Sorry (Partitioning Question)
I am trying the command d p2 followed by a p2 [7265[7296]] The usual response is: ?syntax error. The syntax you are using is wrong, you should be typing a p2 7265 7296 (no square brackets), however this will overlap Partition 1 which fdisk will not allow. You would need to truncate the HPFS partition to give more space for plan9 to use. I beleive there is some software which will allow you to truncate a windows partitions however I have never done this. -Steve
[9fans] New User with Problems
I've been scouring the Interwebs and haven't been able to find much of a solution. Yesterday I decided to give P9 a try and burned the ISO file available on Plan 9's installation page here: http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/download/index.html It was the direct link to the CD image so none of the other choices that are available below. After burning the image to CD, I restarted my computer with the primary booting option as the CD rather than the HD. I received the following: 1 FD 2.88 MB System Type (00) PBS1... Plan 9 from Bell Labs ELCR: 0CA0 pcirouting: South bridge 8086, 2812 not found no plan.ini cpu0: 1862 MHz P6 loop 105279 apm ax=f000 cx=f000 dx=fdf7 di=0 ebx=801c esi=10041c Boot devices: fd0 boot from: I've checked the requirements and my PC seems to be in order there. I did look around and the only possible problems I could find were that maybe since I don't have Windows it was trying to look for the FAT file (I'm strictly an only Linux user) in which case I do not have VMWare and I'd be curious if there is a non-DOS ISO file that could run on a Linux only system. The only other explanations that seemed somewhat logical were that something went wrong in the pcirouting and I missed something in the PC requirements listed on site or the ISO file burned to my CD is faulty. Thoughts? -E
Re: [9fans] How to extend a fossil filesystem with a second disk?
Here is what I was trying without success: [snip] It looks right (from memory). I was not able to mount the 'other' fs to /n/other. how are you doing the mount, I would expect somthing like mount /srv/fossil /n/other other i.e. you mount fossil but with the attach specifier of other. -Steve
Re: [9fans] Plan 9 on Intel P45 chipset motherboard
How can I stop starting rc and go to the console? Booting from cdrom is not possible at the moment. alternatively, if you have a network perhaps you could PXE boot the machine from another host and then mount and edit plan9.ini -Steve
Re: [9fans] not enough memory with fossil+venti standard setup
It may be of interes, I run plan9 in an almost pure windows shop, I have written aux/cifs a windows file server protocl client which allows me to mount DFS shares on our company server. I also have a couple of tools which allow me to connect to a windows PC running a service I have written, this will one day mutate into a full cpu(1) server but at present uses its own protocol. This also integrates with cifs quite well so I can type dos(1) and open a cmd.exe in the same directory on the file server as I was in on plan9, and I can also plumb files in cmd.exe and have them open in sam. This works well for me as most of the tools I need on windows are command line based, for the few gui ones I need I vnc onto a machine. cifs is in the contrib package steve/cifs the dos(1) dosd(1) and listen(1) for windows are not reliably published (and not as well documented), but I can make them available if you are interested. -Steve
Re: [9fans] How long should it take fossil to dump to venti (1st time around)
It will take a very long time, espicially if your IDE controller is not known or it is and DMA is known to be problematic. I suggest you resign yourself to leaving the machine on for many hours, and then, when it stops rattling its disks, you shut it down (using the fshalt command). -Steve
Re: [9fans] arch specific executables
i have a little program, aux/cpuid perhaps this would be better in /dev/cons/cpuid ? just my 2¢ -Steve
Re: [9fans] find command reloaded
Another problem with stuff in contrib is, that their software is not well documented (i.e. no man pages), so that one probably has to read the source in order to be able to use it. s/with stuff/with some stuff/ Btw., I know the and scripts by R Cox, I use them. Without something like them, it would be hell. I have never felt the need for tools like these, I use the mouse to edit the text on the screen (changing history), I then double click to the right of the line and click send which resubmits the text. The idea that any text on the screen may be used to form a new command is very powerful, but takes some getting used to. Perhaps you need to give it a bit more time. -Steve
Re: [9fans] find command reloaded
the only time I ever wanted this kind of feature is for grepping through sourcecode. ron's modified grep is now installed on my boxes; there is a precident (diff -r). -Steve
Re: [9fans] dataflow programming from shell interpreter
The PBM utilities (now net pbm) did something similar for bitmaps. I think V10 also had some pipeline utils for manipulating images. Indeed, however I make a firsm distinction between image proccessing (2d) and video processing (3d). In Video processing the image sequences can be of arbitary length, the processing is often across several fields, and, because we want our results ASAP tools should present the minimum delay possible (e.g. a gain control only needs a one pixel buffer). Aditionally image processing pipelines often have nasty things like feedback loops and mixing different paths with differing delays which all need special care. We have a package of good old unix tools developed jointly by us and the BBC which works as you might expect cat video-stream | interpolate -x 0.7 -y 0.3 | rpnc - 0.5 '*' | display however this can get quite ugly when the algorithm gets complex. We need to cache intermediate results - processing HD (let alone 2k 3d) can get time consuming so we want an environment which tee's off intermediate results automagicially and uses them if possible - sort of mk(1) combined with rc(1). It is also a pain that its not easy to work at different scales i.e. writing expressions to operate at the pixel level and using large blocks like interpolate, the rpnc is an attempt to do this but its interpreted (slow). a restricted rc(1)-like language which supports pipelines, and scalar (configuration) variables combined with a JIT compiler (in the vein of popi) looks like a solution but I have never go further than wishful thinking. -Steve
Re: [9fans] dataflow programming from shell interpreter
Building environment for dataflow programming from shell interpreter. This is always somthing I have wanted to do for video stream processing, writeing a limited proceedural language which can be refactored as a dataflow graph for efficent implementation (of video processing). I always imagined it as a shell-like language rather than actually using an existing shell. Sadly this never got further than ideas and a few email exchanges with Byron. If you find any papers describing such things I would be interested in any references - I think I found some stuff from Berkley in the early 1990s from their work on a reconfigurable FPGA based image processing engine. -Steve
[9fans] SVN
I am told that the company I work for have decided to move from CVS to SVN, so I have to follow. Has anyone ported SVN to plan9 (I only need the client side), or alternatively is anyone using linuxemu to run the Linux binary? -Steve
Re: [9fans] Hardware for Plan9
Interessting idea. Do you use a fossil only configuration and mirroring with fs(3)? I use fossil and venti with everything mirrored with fs(3) - each partition. I have two 7500 RPM Enterprise grade disks (i.e. better than average reliability) from two different manufacturers, the idea is one will die first :-) I created three seperate fs config partitions on the disks so I can have full mirroring, only disk1 or only disk2 so when one disk dies I sould be able to carry on after just chosing a different option at bootup (from plan9.ini). Only are that there are only too two SATA ports. No space for extensions in the future. Thats correct, the newer cards have more sata slots but two is OK for me, one each for the disks and a PATA slot for my DVDRW for long term backups. I can give you the disk config info when you come to that stage, I was planning to write it up as it was a bit of a pain copying the venti arenas from my old server (it need a 50 line script rather than a single command). -Steve
Re: [9fans] Just one piece o' help.
I suggest you install Fede's contrib package (a sort of package managment system), 9fs sources /n/sources/contrib/fgb/root/rc/bin/contrib/install fgb/contrib now you can list packages and install them - see man contrib some stuff is not in contrib packages, it is too small or the author does not line contrib. These are usually downloaded as a tar file and can be built using mk(1) (the plan9 equivilent of make) - much as packages are installed with slackware (I beleive). -Steve
Re: [9fans] Hardware for Plan9
i hate to disagree, but i would not recommend that motherboard. Sorry, I have corrected myself privately but not here yet. The Intel D945GCLF2D looks like a nice board but I agree the broken MP tables are a deal breaker for plan9 (unless acpi support can sidestep the issue one day). I bought a SUPERMICRO X7SLA-H to replace it on Erik's reccomendation and it works very well. There are some newer mini-itx cards from supermicro which also look interesting but I have no experience of them: http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/ATOM Appologies for my bad memory. -Steve
[9fans] faces
A general request to all 9fans. If you don't have a face file on sources could you generate one (for those of us who use faces(1)). It really helps me to have an an image to associate with the people I receive email from. http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/Adding_your_face/index.html Once you have updated you local system you can the submit it to sources using patch(1) -Steve
[9fans] faces
You can sumbim your own patches, or, alternatively if people want to send me their face files and a list of email addresses that they should be associated with them I will agregate them all into a single patch. I am happy to resize and reformat images but if you want this service I will use mugs rather than crop so you only get black and white. Supply the picture as 48x48 resolution and you will be colourful -Steve
Re: [9fans] secstore account expired, how fix it using only drawterm
I'm not sure why the auth commands hang in a vanilla drawterm (no rio). The problem is not drawterm, it is by design. keyfs (and I assume secstored) create a virtual filesystem that the command line apps use to communicate with the running daemon. Due to plan9's per process namespace and because your drawterm session is not decended from the console's shell (where /mnt/keys was created) you cannot see the control file and so you cannot perform key administration. There are some neat tricks you can do if you have a remote server - the approved way is to run a console server program on another machine and wire up the EIA interfaces so you can use the serial console. Erik has an ethernet (not tcpip, raw ethernet) console kernel driver and command line tool which is easier these days (EIA interfaces are a dieing breed). You can even use these tools over a loopback interface, from the machine back to itself. another possibility is to serve the consoles view of /mnt and post it as a file descriptor in /srv with read/write for only bootes - people have posted such solutions on 9fans in the past. I get the impression that setting the console to raw doesn't work with drawterm. I would be very surprised if this is the case, I don't use drawterm much but last time I tried it raw/cooked worked fine. All sorted now anyway Good -Steve
Re: [9fans] Broken Hardware List
I can vouch for the Supermicro X7SLA-H card, with erik's help it is working absolutely solidly, its my main server and this email comes from said machine. hugo% uptime hugo up 52 days, 19:54:04 Not up to Andrey's numbers but I didn't buy it that long ago. -Steve
Re: [9fans] du and find
It is suggested to use
du -a | awk '{print $2}'
instead of find. But what if filename contains spaces?
how about
du -a | awk '{$1=; print}'
This does print a leading space but is simple enough,
or perhaps
du -a | while(s=`{read}) echo $s(2-)
which is more accurate but arguably more complex.
-Steve
[9fans] tex
somone was working on a modern port of TeX to plan9. did this work out? I would like to update my installation as I think I may be using LaTeX before long. -Steve
[9fans] OT concurrent C
Just idle curiosity, anyone any opinions on Concurrent C a language which looked very exciting in the early 1990s but which never seemed to go anywhere - perhaps it was a distant ancestor of alef? http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.47.850 I looked at some alef again yesterday, it looks like a nice language, though its probably the braces around for's expressions that my C eyes yearn for (wrt go). -Steve
Re: [9fans] Scanners
Which is good, because I for one have never been able to get aquarela working properly. I have used it quite a few times in the past. however every so often I do find some weird part of the SMB spec which is not implemeted. That said it usually works well. I am happy to look at reports of problems as I have had dealings with the CIFS protocol in the past. -Steve
Re: [9fans] after a recent pull ...
I added this to my $home/bin/rc/pull script, it doesn't pull the
contrib packages, but prints the commands to do so in case I want to do so.
for(rep in `{ls /dist/replica | grep -v
'network|kfs|sourcesmirror|sources|plan9.proto|cd|client'} )
echo contrib/pull `{basename $rep}
-Steve
Re: [9fans] after a recent pull ...
I added: contrib/local [ -m ] [ -p ] Appologies for not reading the rest of my backlog and the subsequent noise -Steve
Re: [9fans] remote access to audio devices
VNC can (has been) be a butt-saver' - but pales in comparison to remote desktop / remote X for relative responsiveness and seamlessness. My experience of serving a Windows desktop to a plan9 terminal is that TightVNC with the DFMirage Mirror driver works really well. -Steve
Re: [9fans] Examples of rc scripts
There was a mailing list for the unix re-implementation of rc by Byron Rakitzis, this includes many examples and general info. Be careful however, there are a few significant syntatic differenctes between Byron's RC and Plan9's one, I am fairly sure these are detailed in an appendix at the end of Byron's paper (in the source package). info here. http://plan9.aichi-u.ac.jp/netlib/9fans/ http://rc-shell.slackmatic.org/ -Steve
Re: [9fans] sheevaplug port available
Great, thats Geoff, My plug is susposed to be on its way... -Steve
Re: [9fans] troff and latin2, devpost
Trying to make a document in Czech This might help (I have not done this myself) http://9fans.net/archive/2001/12/171 http://9fans.net/archive/2001/12/173 http://9fans.net/archive/2001/12/174 -Steve
[9fans] scsi DAT drives and plan9
Hi, I have a few old DAT tapes and two DAT drives, I planned to dub the tapes to CDs/DVDs, but I don't seem to be able to read them. tar tvf /dev/sd00/raw doesn't work though I didn't really expect it to (block sizes etc), however even echo read bigfile | scuzz /dev/sd00 didn't work. It does generate a file bigfile but it only consists of a stream of zeros. does anyone use SCSI tapes (DAT or other types) these days? If it used to work, then when did you last use it - so I know where to look in venti for differences. Thanks. -Steve
[9fans] OT (again) PERT charts?
Ok, Only because many the people here are of the apropriate generation to do such a thing. Anyone have (or know of) some simple code (prfeferable awk) to parse a project description text file and generate a PERT chart. The obvious tool would be using dot (Graphviz), ideally it would also do the topological sort and CPM (Critical path method) analysis. Don't make me use MS Project, please... -Steve
[9fans] sed question (OT)
Sorry, not really the place for such questions but... I always struggle with sed, awk is easy but sed makes my head hurt. I am trying to capitalise the first tow words on each line (I could use awk as well but I have to use sed so it seems churlish to start another process). capitalising the first word on the line is easy enough: h s/^(.).*/\1/ y/abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz/ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ/ x s/^.(.*)/\1/ x G s/\n// Though there maye be a much easier/more elegant way to do this, but for the 2nd word it gets much harder. What I really want is sam's ability to select a letter and operate on it rather than everything being line based as sed seems to be. any neat solutions? (extra points awarded for use of the branch operator :-) -Steve
Re: [9fans] So quiet!
I thought it was just wonderful, and noticed similar reactions from everyone else. It was a very fine meeting. Makes me even more sick I was unable to come. could somone post a quick summary of the plan9 extra-cirricular activities, e.g. was sheeva plug port was completed successfully? -Steve
Re: [9fans] Barrelfish
Add into that the datarate of full 10 bit uncompressed 1920x1080/60i HD is 932Mbit so your 1Ghz clockspeed might not be fast enough to play it :) Not sure I agree, I think its worse than that: 1920pixels * 1080lines * 30 frames/sec * 20bits/sample in YUV = 1.244Gbps Also, if you want to encode live material you have bigger problems. encoders have pipeline delay but this must be limited, usually to a few hundred millisecods. This means you can only decompose the stream into a few frames which you can run on seperate cpus. Spatial decomposition of the frames helps too but this is much more difficult to do well - i.e. to ensure you cannot see the joins. -Steve
Re: [9fans] Barrelfish
I'm a tiny fish, this is the ocean. Nevertheless, I venture: there are already Cell-based expansion cards out there for real-time H.264/VC-1/MPEG-4 AVC encoding. Meaning, 1080p video in, H.264 stream out, real-time. Interesting, 1080p? you have a link? -Steve
Re: [9fans] dup(3)
@{builtin cd $1 tar cf /fd/1 .} | @{builtin cd $2 tar xTf /fd/0}
the /fd/1 and /fd/0 fererences ensure that dircp will work with ape's tar
which doesn't read/write stdin/stdout by default like plan9's does.
-Steve
Re: [9fans] resample(1) 1 and fancy graphics tools 0
If anyone does fancy working on gif(1) it has a bug I have been meaning to look at for ages. The problem relates to reproducing optimised animated gif files. Gif(1) assumes each image in an animation should be rendered on a black background, however optimised animations, those which contain only the interframe differences WRT the reference (first) frame do not conform to this model. An example makes things clear - appologies for the poor quality of the joke. http://www.quintile.net/doorstep/broken-animated-image.gif -Steve
Re: [9fans] /sys/include/ip.h 5c(1)
I once worked for a telco who's exchanges where connected to their billing machines via a pair of IBM PS2 MCA machines, they also had one spare machine. I was there in about 1997 and everyone very worried what might happen if they lost more than one of these machines. The last I heard the large, complex, fault tolerant Unix system that they built to replace them still didn't work well enough to be relied on. -Steve
Re: [9fans] /sys/src/9/ip/ip.h
perhaps the elimination of all traces of IL is a little too thorough? I see no real harm in IL but, just a suggestion, you could do a pull -s, and then use diff3 (in my contrib) to do a merge between ip.h.orig, yesterday(1)'s version and the newly pulled code. having said this I still have it on my To-do list to add a -m (merge) option to replica to do just this; one day. -Steve
Re: [9fans] replica under 9vx
I don't see this explaining a mkdir with mode of 0 however. Does the file/dir actually have a mode of zero on the source machine? Plan9 can happily create an object with mode zero but a posix emulation of wstat() must do the rename()/chmod()/chown()/chgrp() etc in a fixed order which is bound to make some combinations mutually exclusive. -Steve
Re: [9fans] mishandling empty lists - let's fix it
Does anyone agree with me that it needs fixing? sorry, I don't agree that it is broken so I don't thing it need fixing. It does occasionally annoy me that tr(1) will not take a file as an argument but again, changing that would have implications too wide to make it worthwhile; I try to think of it as OS patina. -Steve
Re: [9fans] bluetooth
Fantastic work Richard, I too will be very interested in playing with this once you are ready. The only one thought - probably not mentioned as it is so obvious, it would be neat if the plumber and thus auth/fgui could be pressed into service for entering the pairing PIN. -Steve
Re: [9fans] Netbooting from Qemu
I would have thought a small USB stick would be the way to go, My latest motherboard even had one USB port inside the case for just this kind of thing. -Steve
Re: [9fans] Blocks in C
what happened with either of the recently-reported fossil lockup problems, for instance? As I now have two servers at home (old and new) I have been trying to provoke the old one into locking up so I can take a snap of its fossil. sadly the old server has been irriatingly reliable and the only lockup I have had so far was on the new machine (typical!). If anyone has any thoughts/hints/guesses on how to provoke the fossil lockup I would be very interested to hear. I have tried mirroring sources which used to be a rich source of lockups but it seems to work now. I am going to try sending this machine fake emails I have a feeling that that can annoy fossil, and also speed up the rate of taking temporary snaps which others have reported as being a source of problems. -Steve
[9fans] disabling swap
I have just hit a fossil deadlock. the symptom is simple enough,
fossil wedged, stats continued to be updated and I could run whatis
in a rio window but any attempt to access the local fossil caused
the command to hang.
I was trying to mirror sources when it happened so I had a lot of
processes all writing to fossil at the same time - well, perhaps a dozen.
If anyone is interested I have put my 9pccpuf and a phone camera
image of ^t^t^p of the hang in http://www.quintile.net/doorstep/deadlock.jpg
and http://www.quintile.net/doorstep/9pccpuf.
If anyone extracts info from this I would like to learn how they do it.
I made a feeble attempt to diagnose the problem myself (below) and it looks
as though it was trying to swap, however, though I do have a /dev/sdXX/swap
I believe I have disabled the one place where swap is enabled
(/cfg/$sysname/cpurc).
having said this I think /dev/mem is indicating that I _do_ have swap enabled.
either
way I should not have been swapping as I have masses of free RAM.
-Steve (confused)
cpu% acid /386/9pccpuf
/386/9pccpuf:386 plan 9 boot image
/sys/lib/acid/port
/sys/lib/acid/386
acid: src(0xf01d3968)
/sys/src/9/port/fault.c:231
226k = kmap(new);
227kaddr = (char*)VA(k);
228
229if(loadrec == 0) { /* This is demand load
*/
230c = s-image-c;
231while(waserror()) {
232if(strcmp(up-errstr, Eintr) == 0)
233continue;
234kunmap(k);
235putpage(new);
236faulterror(sys: demand load I/O error, c, 0);
acid: src(0xf01d730f)
/sys/src/9/port/proc.c:576
571/* Only reliable way to see if we are Running */
572if(p-mach == 0) {
573p-newtlb = 1;
574ok = 1;
575}
576unlock(runq);
577spllo();
578
579return ok;
580}
581
acid:
cpu%
cpu% cat /dev/swap
2134908928 memory
4096 pagesize
27037 kernel
112466/494181 user
0/16 swap
4588640/71348716 kernel malloc
0/16777216 kernel draw
cpu% grep swap /cfg/$sysname/cpurc
# swap is broken
# swap `{ls /dev/fs/swap /dev/sd*/swap [2] /dev/null | sed 1q}
Re: [9fans] problems when hwaccel off or in inferno
So is it so that anybody using vesa should see it... I use the vesa driver occasionally on my Atom motherboard (Intel 940?) and have had no such droppings, so the problem isn't universal. -Steve
Re: [9fans] Interested in improving networking in Plan 9
it seems so straightforward to just send formatted sql or pl/sql to the engine and get normally formatted output. I did somthing like this for mysql to access our corperate telephone database. I took the inferno odbcfs as an example: http://www.vitanuova.com/inferno/man/10/odbc.html if interested see the steve/mysqlfs contrib package -Steve
Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso
9fat is also a pain in that the 9load file must be created with, and retain its append only file, which has a special meaning to 9fat telling it to create the file in sequential blocks. This could (and has) caused problems if you access the 9fat partition from os's other than plan9. The only times I have had to change plan9.ini from somthing else than the booted system (because I have broken the boot process) I booted the plan9 live cdrom. I would be happy if 9load and 9fat disappeared and it was replaced with a plan9 bootstrap kernel and (say) an rc(1) script. -Steve
Re: [9fans] dformat
Anybody have a copy of dformat online? http://www.troff.org/source.html -Steve
Re: [9fans] The CW font with Lucidasans
I usually add these to my document .FP lucidasans .de EX .SM .CW .DS .. .de EE .DE .R .LG .. And then use .EX and .EE around code examples (concept lifted from the man macros). This is from memory, its probably more pedantic/verbose than necessary, but it works. -Steve
Re: [9fans] ugly eqn/troff result
Really nobody uses 'eqn' these days?... I use it occasionally, I just don't know how to help you with your problem. -Steve
Re: [9fans] ndb/dns as a slave
I assume your master DNS is served from bind, then you can use the zonefresh program in my contrib to build an ndb compatible ndb file for your local dns to serve. -Steve
[9fans] lspci for windows (sort of)
I recently came across this, a tool which can dump some PCI bus info from windows. This may be of use to people trying to put plan9 on systems that are already installed with windows. perhaps this is old news and evryone knows about it, but I didn't. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/311272 example of usage: acroncompile1% devcon find pci\* PCI\VEN_10DEDEV_0165SUBSYS_029D10DEREV_A1\414DB2FCF8: NVIDIA Quadro NVS 285 PCI\VEN_14E4DEV_167BSUBSYS_280C103CREV_02\427454EAD000E5: Broadcom NetXtreme Gigabit Ethernet PCI\VEN_8086DEV_244ESUBSYS_REV_E1\3B1BFB680F0 : Intel(R) 82801 PCI Bridge - 244E PCI\VEN_8086DEV_277CSUBSYS_REV_00\3B1BFB68000 : PCI standard host CPU bridge PCI\VEN_8086DEV_277DSUBSYS_REV_00\3B1BFB68008 : PCI standard PCI-to-PCI bridge PCI\VEN_8086DEV_27B8SUBSYS_REV_01\3B1BFB680F8 : Intel(R) 82801GB LPC Interface Controller - 27B8 PCI\VEN_8086DEV_27C0SUBSYS_280C103CREV_01\3B1BFB680FA : Intel(R) 82801GB Serial ATA Storage Controllers - 27C0 PCI\VEN_8086DEV_27C8SUBSYS_280C103CREV_01\3B1BFB680E8 : Intel(R) 82801GB USB Universal Host Controller - 27C8 PCI\VEN_8086DEV_27C9SUBSYS_280C103CREV_01\3B1BFB680E9 : Intel(R) 82801GB USB Universal Host Controller - 27C9 PCI\VEN_8086DEV_27CASUBSYS_280C103CREV_01\3B1BFB680EA : Intel(R) 82801GB USB Universal Host Controller - 27CA PCI\VEN_8086DEV_27CBSUBSYS_280C103CREV_01\3B1BFB680EB : Intel(R) 82801GB USB Universal Host Controller - 27CB PCI\VEN_8086DEV_27CCSUBSYS_280C103CREV_01\3B1BFB680EF : Intel(R) 82801GB USB2 Enhanced Host Controller - 27CC PCI\VEN_8086DEV_27D0SUBSYS_REV_01\3B1BFB680E0 : Intel(R) 82801GB PCI Express Root Port - 27D0 PCI\VEN_8086DEV_27D8SUBSYS_280C103CREV_01\3B1BFB680D8 : Microsoft UAA Bus Driver for High Definition Audio PCI\VEN_8086DEV_27DFSUBSYS_280C103CREV_01\3B1BFB680F9 : Intel(R) 82801GB Ultra ATA Storage Controllers - 27DF PCI\VEN_8086DEV_27E0SUBSYS_REV_01\3B1BFB680E4 : Intel(R) 82801GB PCI Express Root Port - 27E0 PCI\VEN_8086DEV_27E2SUBSYS_REV_01\3B1BFB680E5 : Intel(R) 82801GB PCI Express Root Port - 27E2 -Steve
Re: [9fans] drawterm hangups
I am using ppc drawterm under osx quite a bit and have never seen this problem. Not sure if that helps or not... -Steve
Re: [9fans] 9fans.net/archive/ google index
On 2009-08-17, hiro 23h...@googlemail.com wrote: interestingly, googling for this with     site:9fans.net/archive/2009/08 PAT returns nothing. I've seen these kind of problems a lot. I have looked around, I searched for any misconfigured robot file, but not having found any I am left wondering. Why doesn't google index our archive? Even very old posts are often note found with google's search. Anybody have an idea? Searching Google for site:9fans.net/archive/2009/08 just returned 8 hits . -- Steve Kostecke st...@kostecke.net I am a citizen, not a consumer. I am a human being, not a revenue source. Public Key at gopher://kostecke.net or `finger st...@kostecke.net`
Re: [9fans] nemo book
Does anyone here know if it's possible to obtain printed copies of nemo's book if you live in the United States? I'am intrigued, you have a weblink to where I could buy a printed copy (in europe)? I thought sites like lulu only allowed the author to offer the document for publication, not that you can chose an arbitary PDF and ask for it to be printed and bound - unless nemo has done this and I missed the link? I would also be interested a printed and bound copy of the 3rd edition kernel source and commentry... -Steve
Re: [9fans] make slides in plan 9
How to make slides in plan 9 rsc has an example /n/sources/rsc/talk/* I have used the usenix-era troff foils macros quite often recently. /n/sources/contrib/steve/foils.tgz TeX is available seperately - created a contrib package for it or there is an iso (which has bitrotted a little but is still usable). Beware: downloading it will take a long time (hours). % contrib/list -v steve/tex steve/tex: Description: TeX, metafont, metapost fonts etc, circa 1998 This TeX package was built in the labs in 2000. I have recompiled it and packaged it as a contrib, however TeX is under continual development and the package could be updated to current release. I don't use TeX so I have no idea if this is a good idea or not and it would require effort I would rather put elsewhere. Steve Simon Dec 2007 Contents: 109.13Mb in 7309 files Modified: Fri Jun 19 06:57:06 GMT 2009 Depends: -Steve
[9fans] copying a venti
I am trying to copy my venti from an old server to a new one, currently I am using somthing along the lines of: venti/rdarenas /tmp/arena; venti/wrarenas /tmp/arena Which is progressing, admittedly very slowly. I had this problem before and Russ suggested that perhaps my bloom filter was non operational. Is there anything more to setting up a bloom filter on a venti beyond adding a bloom /dev/sdC0/bloom to the venti config and formatting the partion with venti/fmtbloom before starting venti for the first time? Also, I have since discoverd the venti/copy command which looks to be exactly what I should be using, but how do I generate a score to copy the whole venti tree? Thanks, -Steve
Re: [9fans] Plan 9 hg with private repositories
re: /etc/ssh/sshd_config on unix to support sshv1 see: http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/Connecting_to_other_OSes/index.html -Steve
Re: [9fans] audio standards -- too many to choose from
Here is how I think it would work - please correct me if I am wrong. the status file gives a list for the supported features and the current state of each. If particular hardware does not support mu-law then no state is displayed for it and the application layer can decide to emulate a mu-law table or report the problem to the user and give up. I do think that thought needs to be given to how a combined audio and video player would be inplemented - ensuring correct lipsink at a minimum. also, might I suggest that the application level tools live in aud/xxx or audio/xxx - I think it is a shame that the image manipulation tools are not in img/xxx -Steve
Re: [9fans] machine key, secstore key, hostowner password
The machine key _is_ the hostowners password, DES encrypted with the hostowner's name, the details are in the code. the secstore key is just that, it us useful for storing account details that the hostowner may need - for example I keep my sources account in hostowner's secstore so I can cpu -u bootes to become hostowner and then do a pull. I have to type in the hostowner's secstore key about once a year - though it is read from the nvram un onlock the hostowners secstore on every boot of my cpu/auth/file server. I use the hostowner's key once a week or so to cpu in to do a pull or if I need access to the server's /dev/kmesg or devices. -Steve
Re: [9fans] machine key, secstore key, hostowner password
the hostowner is the owner of the machine, but they are also a user on plan9 so they need an entry on the auth database. the passwords in the auth database and the nvram must match or you will not be able to cpu or 9fs to this box, authentication will not work. -Steve
Re: [9fans] a few Q's regarding cpu/auth server
This will create a n append only file, not a directory. The usual way to initialised cron for a user is auth/cron -c (similarly for mail type mail -c) when you have first logged in as that user. if you run /sys/lib/newuser when you first login (i.e. the very first time, do this only once) then these commands are run for you (cat /sys/lib/newuser for more info). -Steve
Re: [9fans] a few Q's regarding cpu/auth server
...by the curmudgeonly 9fans... For those who follow British comedy: Father Jack, my alter ego! Others may find this enlightening http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHiDhERvJ4I -Steve
Re: [9fans] the old floppy set
As Anthony says it is very very old, but I might be fun if you had the time on your hands. The 2nd edition books/cdrom are nolonger available but you might find a set seccond hand (abebooks.com etc). The floppys are here: /n/sources/contrib/steve/historic/2nd-edition/pcdist/ I found a complete mirror of the old 2nd edition site and I think uriel has copied it to cat-v.org. You will need 16Mb to install and 8Mb to run a terminal though It will work at 640x480x1 resolution. The 4th edition should run on a 486, though you will need (say) 128Mb of ram - much more if you want to recompile gs(1). -Steve
Re: [9fans] a few Q's regarding cpu/auth server
I cannot imageine the senario where random people will have access to the cpu/auth/file server's consoles. It just doesn't happen if you are serious about security. However if you want to protect your console against your friends I wrote a script to do it /n/sources/contrib/steve/rc/conslock you may also want to look at screenlock(1) Incidentially I may use this at home to protect my servers console against my 2 year old who rather likes keyboards, though this is a different type of security. -Steve
Re: [9fans] ceph
Well, with Linux, at least you have a benefit of a gazillions of FS clients being available either natively or via FUSE. Do you have a link to a site which lists interesting FUSE filesystems, I am definitely not trying to troll, I am always intrigued by others ideas of how to reprisent data/APIs as fs. Sadly the Fuse fs I have seen have mostly been disappointing.There are a few I which would be handy on plan9 (gmail, ipod, svn) but most seem less useful. -Steve
[9fans] refer
I have packaged up Forsyth's port of refer as a contrib package with a kindly donated bin2ref program and a mkfile to pull down the plan9 bibliobraphy referenced on 9fans a while back. Might be of use to those writing papers for iw9p. -Steve
Re: [9fans] iso experiment
Ok, Your iso image boots OK, however the kernel still doesn't see PATA. The iso boots off PATA, 9load finds and reads plan9.ini, it fails to find the kernel (because it is looking on sdD0), if I type the kernel path in by hand then it loads the kernel as you would expect. I tried your bootdev device but that didn't seem to work I'am afriad. Sorry to be the bringer of unexciting tidings. as an aside, I am just trying a hack to kbd.c to reset numloc and speed up the keyboard repeat speed at powerup as I have a nice small keyboard but it always powers up with numloc enabled on plan9 and I cannot turn it off (teh numlock key has no effect). -Steve
Re: [9fans] iso experiment
Ok, I'al try my keyboard mod and I borrowed a DVDROM drive from work, just to see if that works any better. -Steve
Re: [9fans] iso experiment
Appologies for the noise everyone.
Re: [9fans] Parallels Vesa driver question
Also, are the old sources available online somewhere so I can do this kind of diff in the future on my own? you can use history(1) and yesterday(1) against sources. 9fs sources history -D sourcesdump /n/sources/plan9/sys/src/9/pc/vgavesa.c -Steve
Re: [9fans] detecting drawterm
Drawterm connects with service=cpu
In the cpu clause I do this:
if (! test -e /mnt/term/mnt/wsys) { # dt2k
# cpu call from drawterm
if (test -e /mnt/term/dev/secstore){
auth/factotum -n
cat /mnt/term/dev/secstore | read -m /mnt/factotum/ctl
echo /mnt/term/dev/secstore
}
if not {# old drawterm
auth/factotum
}
webfs
plumber
webcookies
upas/fs
exec rio -s -i startup
}
note the secstore device created by drawterm which I push into
my new factotum and then clean out (just in case).
-Steve
Re: [9fans] nvram
no it doesn't, I had this a few days ago, moving disks about so nvram couldn't be found. I could still boot the system but I had to enter the nvram info from the keyboard, it did then try to write the data back which (of course) fails - perhaps it was this write to a dead disk that caused the boot process to die. -Steve
Re: [9fans] off topic: manual sets
also, do you know about: http://plan9.bell-labs.com/7thEdMan/ -Steve
Re: [9fans] how to fix: 'arena arenas00 creation time after last write time'
My standalone terminal is always doing the index, the problem seemed to have just suddenly showed up for no reason - the system hasn't crashed, I'm not doing anything 'weird', and I always run fshalt before shutting down. And this persists across fresh installs. Not sure what you mean by doing the index. When you install you will have an empty venti and a full fossil. on the next reboot the whole of fossil will be dumped to venti. This first dump can take a long time (some hours). After this dumps only take (typicially) a few secconds as only changed blocks are written. Is it possible that you did not let this intiial dump finish when you first rebooted your machine. In that case each time you reboot it will be trying to continue this dump (not sure if it starts again from the begining or just from where it left off). Perhaps this could be the doing the index? if so, try just leaving it rattling overnight and then fshalt the next morning and it may come back happy the next day. Beware: shutting down during a dump is a bit unfriendly even if you did an fshalt, it may be worth running a venti check check on fossil - see fossilcons(8) - this is another very slow process I'am afraid. -Steve
Re: [9fans] how to fix: 'arena arenas00 creation time after last write time'
* set up venti manually after the install, and after I've set the timezone Sorry if I'am being a pedant, but its not the timezone - that is an offset that effects how dates and times are printed, plan9 like Unix always uses UTC for all time/date stamps. The problem is the time in the RTC chip was wrong. there is a recuring problem that Windows sets the RTC to localtime whereas Unix expects it to be UTC. There is an option to timesync to inform it if you want to continue using localtime on your RTC (because you want to dual boot with windows). -Steve
Re: [9fans] plan9port behind corporate firewall with no DNS or port access
There are several places which have readonly versions of sources available via http, alternatively there is a socks client or even htfilefs, the former uses the SOCKS protocol to tunnel through the firewall. htfilefs mounts a remote ISO image (like the plan9 nightly build iso) over an http connection and expands it as a hierarchy. You could probably write some tunneling software to run on your home machine and work machine using http in between, but your corperate IT department might not see the funny side of such practices... -Steve
Re: [9fans] Does as little software as possible include a modern browser?
Evernote, for example, would be easier to render to the user and mount as a filesystem than Google maps. You are right, google maps is much more a simple transaction based system, I cannot see how it would fit usefully into a file system hierarchy. It does not require a web browser however. assuming you have signed up and put your key in /lib/gmapkey you can see exactly where I am at with: /n/sources/contrib/steve/rc/gmap -s eastleigh road, havant [credit to erik for the much needed polishing of this tool] -Steve
Re: [9fans] dcp - a deep copy script, better than dircp
...c-stoff/t-stoff powered rocket... oblique UK reference I watched OU programs as a child too :-) /oblique UK reference I suggest you consider why you are moving directories about, I have just got out of the habit. If I get a tar or a zip which contains dome data I need I just mount it with fs/tarfs or fs/zipfs and look inside. If I want just a few files I cp them to $home, if I want most of it then I extract the image to the destination where it is needed. Basicially I put a bit more thought up-front as to where I want to put stuff and then put it there. If you want dircp as a backup mechnism then can I suggest either fossil and venti, or, mk9660(8). mk9660 creates a dump-like heirarchy in a single ISO image, mergeing multiple dumps into the single ISO, stripping dumplicate files as it goes; kudos to wkj I believe. -Steve
Re: [9fans] multiport serial
I have used an isa card with the 4th edition, so I know they work, however I haven't tried for quite a few years - it might have bitrotted. [Beware whistfull ramblings] Twas an Adaptec 1542, I even upgraded its firmware once, with a UV lightbox and an EPROM programmer... -Steve
Re: [9fans] Why does Acme only show text?
Eric and myself, and I think maybe Ron, are using acme and acme-sac to interact with a BlueGene/P system. Not as glamorous, but an alternative senario - I use sam and rio to write embedded and windows code. I edit the code with sam, but I do my best not to ever access the seperate rio snarf buffer. I keep the commands or scripts I need to test the code in rio's snarf, when I am ready to try things I just click the rio window and Button 2 to execute send. -Steve
