Re: [9fans] 9vx
I'm using it on a daily base for development and as a server plattform. 9vx is my terminal, while I use geany editor from linux as an editor. 9p filesystems can easily be started for data transfer with native 9legacy. The only feature I miss in 9vx is the lack of some plan9 devices in my case the #g (segment) device which I use for shared memory on 9legacy forks to create my graphical framebuffer and font infrastructure. But there is a simple workaround for this problem so I don't mind it too much. 9vx is extremly fast I can compile the kernel and userland in less than 2 minutes and the greatest advantage is the ability to use the underlying host filesystem directly from within linux. When I started kernel development with 9legacy after the licence changes I was looking for some way to exchange data between host and guest when someone pointed me to 9vx and afterwards it became my "thats it" solution. -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T13921a25ae477a65-M2906ba611422c3ebd4e2fa7e Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] 9vx
in case somebody else is wondering what Stuart is talking about, he's referencing a specific text passage using one of these google chrome specific features: https://web.dev/text-fragments/ On 6/26/23, Stuart Morrow wrote: >> Another interesting project would be seeing if it could be >> modified to work as a 64-bit binary but still running a 32-bit >> environment >> on the inside... > > > https://pdos.csail.mit.edu/papers/vx32:usenix08/#:~:text=The%20recent%2064,bit%20host%20application. > > This needs to happen. I'd use it. -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T13921a25ae477a65-M88a880c0f59a83705d10b847 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] 9vx
> Another interesting project would be seeing if it could be > modified to work as a 64-bit binary but still running a 32-bit environment > on the inside... https://pdos.csail.mit.edu/papers/vx32:usenix08/#:~:text=The%20recent%2064,bit%20host%20application. This needs to happen. I'd use it. -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T13921a25ae477a65-M4468dd505f1dd37b95637658 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] 9vx
>Does anyone still use 9vx for anything? Anyone ever look at adding > a cocoa/metal GUI layer for more recent Mac OS X? I'm looking at > drawterm-cocoa as a starting point. > >This is a losing game for sure, since Apple dropped 32-bit binary > support, but most of the project still compiles with XCode 9.4.1 under > Mojave... Another interesting project would be seeing if it could be > modified to work as a 64-bit binary but still running a 32-bit > environment on the inside... I'm using 9vx daily, but on Linux only. -- David du Colombier -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T13921a25ae477a65-M6dd9563dccda0b3a2930cdfd Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
[9fans] 9vx
Hi there Does anyone still use 9vx for anything? Anyone ever look at adding a cocoa/metal GUI layer for more recent Mac OS X? I'm looking at drawterm-cocoa as a starting point. This is a losing game for sure, since Apple dropped 32-bit binary support, but most of the project still compiles with XCode 9.4.1 under Mojave... Another interesting project would be seeing if it could be modified to work as a 64-bit binary but still running a 32-bit environment on the inside... Thanks much, as always! -Ben -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T13921a25ae477a65-M8261c3c4a52e717756b68e39 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] 9vx, 9legacy
For everyone interested : On 64 bit debian systems you need to install the X11 compatibility libraries with sudo apt-get install libx11-dev:i386 sudo apt-get install libxext-dev:i386 The same syntax is for the other libraries mentioned by David necessary. Afterwards it compiles without problems and 9vx runs like a charm. I could compile programs and edit sourcefiles in the host translate under plan9 and its really fast. Thanks David and everyone involved in 9vx and vx32 thats what I need to write software for plan9. -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Tf651d537d5dbd117-Mee8b78c21e82acb98a36e6c0 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] 9vx, 9legacy
Thanks for your fast reply, I'll try to find the way to install X11 compatibility libraries for debian 64 bit systems. > > a) When I typed fshalt I got an error that I don't have permissions to > call /bin/echo. It seems like echo from the host system was called > instead of echo from 9legacy. Is this a bug or did I forget something ? > > > I'm not sure what is your issue here. Anyway, you don't need to > run fshalt on 9vx, because there is usually no file system running. I wasn't sure why echo from the host was called out of the guest and if I have forgotten something to initialize. -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Tf651d537d5dbd117-M6896134682f796ce1f89a5c4 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] 9vx, 9legacy
> While looking for a way to exchange files between a linux system and an > hosted virtual machine running plan9 I found vx32 and 9vx. I couldn't > master to compile it under a 64 bit Linux cause libX11 was missing as a > compatible 32 bit library so I installed a 32 bit linux and everthing > compiled without problems. There is no need to run a 32-bit Linux specifically, since most 64-bit Linux distributions have support for both 32-bit and 64-bit user space. For example, on a 64-bit Fedora you can install the 32-bit dependencies for 9vx this way: dnf install glibc-devel.i686 libgcc.i686 libX11-devel.i686 libXext-devel.i686 -y > a) When I typed fshalt I got an error that I don't have permissions to > call /bin/echo. It seems like echo from the host system was called > instead of echo from 9legacy. Is this a bug or did I forget something ? I'm not sure what is your issue here. Anyway, you don't need to run fshalt on 9vx, because there is usually no file system running. > b) How does the installation procedure work ? Usually during the > installation of a distro lets say 9front I would have to partition a > harddisk where the necessary things are installed. In the usual case, you don't have to run a file system in 9vx. You simply extract the files from the Plan 9 CD in a directory located on your host operating system, then 9vx can use this directory as his root. For example: wget http://9legacy.org/download/9legacy.iso.bz2 bunzip2 plan9.iso.bz2 9660srv -f plan9.iso 9mount unix\!$(namespace)/9660 /n/9660 sudo cp -a /n/9660 /opt/plan9 9vx -r /opt/plan9 > c) I'm a bit confused about the licensing of 9vx and vx32. vx32 is LGPL > and 9vx is/was licenced with the Lucent license while 9vx uses vx32 or > am I wrong ? 9vx was recently re-licensed under MIT license, but vx32 remains under LGPL. -- David du Colombier -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Tf651d537d5dbd117-Meca687190264535224ded984 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
[9fans] 9vx, 9legacy
While looking for a way to exchange files between a linux system and an hosted virtual machine running plan9 I found vx32 and 9vx. I couldn't master to compile it under a 64 bit Linux cause libX11 was missing as a compatible 32 bit library so I installed a 32 bit linux and everthing compiled without problems. I started 9legacy with 9vx -r -u glenda "memsize=1536" everything went fine and this is amazingly fast. I can exchange files between host and guest. Now my questions : a) When I typed fshalt I got an error that I don't have permissions to call /bin/echo. It seems like echo from the host system was called instead of echo from 9legacy. Is this a bug or did I forget something ? b) How does the installation procedure work ? Usually during the installation of a distro lets say 9front I would have to partition a harddisk where the necessary things are installed. c) I'm a bit confused about the licensing of 9vx and vx32. vx32 is LGPL and 9vx is/was licenced with the Lucent license while 9vx uses vx32 or am I wrong ? Thanks in advance and 9vx is really an amazing tool. -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Tf651d537d5dbd117-M67a20cd6deb2da053b42096a Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] 9vx on OSX
On Sat Nov 7 02:53:10 PST 2015, aris...@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp wrote: > Hello, > > thanks all. > > > mine is weird: when I type “abc”, I have “aabbcc”. > > I replaced 9vx (not only 9vx binary but whole set of 9vx package) on Yosemite > by the one that is working on Mountain Lion. > however the problem is not fixed. > > probably that is only to me. > some differences in environment makes problem. sounds like a timing issue. i haven't looked at the fake keyboard for 9vx, but that's where i'd look first. - erik
Re: [9fans] 9vx on OSX
Hello, thanks all. > mine is weird: when I type “abc”, I have “aabbcc”. I replaced 9vx (not only 9vx binary but whole set of 9vx package) on Yosemite by the one that is working on Mountain Lion. however the problem is not fixed. probably that is only to me. some differences in environment makes problem. Kenji Arisawa
Re: [9fans] 9vx on OSX
On my machine at least it suffers from breaking window corners when changing the window size with B1. The source of this Lion version should be useful for someone wishing to adapt 9vx.OSX to Yosemite. But I have only been able to find the binary. Mark.
Re: [9fans] 9vx on OSX
There is a 9vx binary built for Lion on Jan 27, 2012 at http://code.google.com/p/nix-os/source/browse/9vx.OSX Just tried it out briefly on Yosemite (10.10.5), and, within the limits of such a short attempt, I can say that it seems to work. Going full screen at first left a part on the right blank, but this was restored later on. Mark.
Re: [9fans] 9vx on OSX
I just tried it on El Capitan and I don't see the problem, but it has other issues (e.g. rio backdrop doesn't fill the 9vx window; full screen mode doesn't create its own desktop). BTW, the 9vx I'm using has a date of July 1 2008. I'm sure some API's have changed underneath it. I don't think I've ever been able to successfully compile 9vx from source. -Skip On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 11:10 PM, arisawa wrote: > Hello, > > does anyone have 9vx that is working on recent osx (Yosemite for example)? > > mine is weird: when I type “abc”, I have “aabbcc”. > > Kenji Arisawa > > >
[9fans] 9vx on OSX
Hello, does anyone have 9vx that is working on recent osx (Yosemite for example)? mine is weird: when I type “abc”, I have “aabbcc”. Kenji Arisawa
Re: [9fans] 9vx giving bad syscall number 53
David du Colombier <0in...@gmail.com> writes: > The current vx32 repository, which includes the nsec syscall, > is available on: > > https://github.com/0intro/vx32 Thanks David, it works now.
Re: [9fans] 9vx giving bad syscall number 53
The current vx32 repository, which includes the nsec syscall, is available on: https://github.com/0intro/vx32 -- David du Colombier
[9fans] 9vx giving bad syscall number 53
Hi, I was trying to use the 9vx with plan9 iso from labs as mentioned in this post ¹ (sorry for inserting private archive link, 9fans.net gives a 404 error). When I run the below command 9vx -r plan9.iso -u glenda "CWD=#Z`pwd`" "nvram=#Z`pwd`/plan9.nvr" I find following errors in 9vx. > fs 58: bad syscall number 53 oc 1ec5c > fs 58: suicide sys: bad syscall pc=0x0001ec5c I can't get past `9660srv -f plan9.iso` command from above post. Is the tutorial still valid? ¹ http://mail.9fans.net/private/9fans/2010-October/017167.html Thanks,
Re: [9fans] 9vx/Go/Yosemite questions
On Nov 13, 2014 2:25 PM, "Skip Tavakkolian" wrote: > - in order to run go built for plan9/386 on 9vx, presumably go should be built without support for SSE2. is there a way to avoid this? set GO386 to 387 before running all.rc
[9fans] 9vx/Go/Yosemite questions
i succeeded in compiling a recent 9vx (from 0intro's repo on bitbucket) on linux, but not on osx. - is anyone working on porting this version to Yosemite? - in order to run go built for plan9/386 on 9vx, presumably go should be built without support for SSE2. is there a way to avoid this? Thanks, -Skip
Re: [9fans] 9vx on Mac OSX 10.9.1
Thank you. It seems the problem is only to me. 2013/12/24 14:40、Bakul Shah のメール： > On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 13:04:18 +0900 arisawa wrote: >> Hello, >> >> After recent update of OSX, 9vx puts to the console very noisy messages >> such as: >> 2013-12-18 10:49:13.529 9vx.OSX[588:1503] Warning - conversion from 64 >> bit to 32 bit integral value requested within NSPortCoder, but the 64 >> bit value 140734683798163 cannot be represented by a 32 bit value > > I don't see this. But I haven't rebuilt 9vx in over 2 years > (and can't rebuild it under 10.9*). >
Re: [9fans] 9vx on Mac OSX 10.9.1
On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 13:04:18 +0900 arisawa wrote: > Hello, > > After recent update of OSX, 9vx puts to the console very noisy messages > such as: > 2013-12-18 10:49:13.529 9vx.OSX[588:1503] Warning - conversion from 64 > bit to 32 bit integral value requested within NSPortCoder, but the 64 > bit value 140734683798163 cannot be represented by a 32 bit value I don't see this. But I haven't rebuilt 9vx in over 2 years (and can't rebuild it under 10.9*).
[9fans] 9vx on Mac OSX 10.9.1
Hello, After recent update of OSX, 9vx puts to the console very noisy messages such as: 2013-12-18 10:49:13.529 9vx.OSX[588:1503] Warning - conversion from 64 bit to 32 bit integral value requested within NSPortCoder, but the 64 bit value 140734683798163 cannot be represented by a 32 bit value … … Anyone noticed the same problem? How to fix? Kenji Arisawa
Re: [9fans] 9vx getting root from plan9 file server
On 11 March 2013 14:29, Steve Simon wrote: > Anyone succeeded in getting 9vx to take its root from a remote > plan9 file server? There is a mail from RSC from 2009 but he > indicates it is untested, I was just wondering if anyone got it > to work and have a command like they could share? > This should be supported in the newest versions of 9vx (either mine, ron's or 0intro's, there's no difference), but not in 0.12. You can use either a plan9.ini file or a command line argument. It's no different from what you'd do from a real terminal. (Read the man page!) Even if, for any reason, you prefer the old version you may be able to integrate the original patch by BLS. There should be some message by him in this list where he explains how to get it working with local file systems, a remote one shouldn't be very different. -- - yiyus || JGL .
Re: [9fans] 9vx getting root from plan9 file server
On Mar 11, 2013, at 9:29, "Steve Simon" wrote: > Anyone succeeded in getting 9vx to take its root from a remote > plan9 file server? There is a mail from RSC from 2009 but he > indicates it is untested, I was just wondering if anyone got it > to work and have a command like they could share? > > -Steve > Yeah I do it all the time. I use yiyus's 9vx. Works great.
[9fans] 9vx getting root from plan9 file server
Anyone succeeded in getting 9vx to take its root from a remote plan9 file server? There is a mail from RSC from 2009 but he indicates it is untested, I was just wondering if anyone got it to work and have a command like they could share? -Steve
Re: [9fans] 9vx on mountain lion
Hello, I have tried. it seems the drawterm binary works OK. Kenji Arisawa On 2013/02/19, at 1:22, Jeff Sickel wrote: > Take a look at the changes in > > https://bitbucket.org/jas/drawterm-cocoa > > A bit different from the p9p side, but does handle the cursor > changes et al. > > -jas > > On Feb 18, 2013, at 6:51 AM, lu...@proxima.alt.za wrote: > >>> Yiyus' and Ron's repositories have the same content. >>> >>> The current vx32 repository (based on Ron's) is: >>> >>> https://bitbucket.org/0intro/vx32 >> >> That's three, I guess there's strength in numbers :-) >> >>> It doesn't fix the reported problem anyway. >> >> And I'm still praying for the Go fixes, but they don't seem to be much >> of a priority. It would be nice if the (partial) fixes for OS-X were >> to find their way into the repository, though. >> >> ++L >> >> > >
Re: [9fans] 9vx on mountain lion
Take a look at the changes in https://bitbucket.org/jas/drawterm-cocoa A bit different from the p9p side, but does handle the cursor changes et al. -jas On Feb 18, 2013, at 6:51 AM, lu...@proxima.alt.za wrote: >> Yiyus' and Ron's repositories have the same content. >> >> The current vx32 repository (based on Ron's) is: >> >> https://bitbucket.org/0intro/vx32 > > That's three, I guess there's strength in numbers :-) > >> It doesn't fix the reported problem anyway. > > And I'm still praying for the Go fixes, but they don't seem to be much > of a priority. It would be nice if the (partial) fixes for OS-X were > to find their way into the repository, though. > > ++L > >
Re: [9fans] 9vx on mountain lion
> Yiyus' and Ron's repositories have the same content. > > The current vx32 repository (based on Ron's) is: > > https://bitbucket.org/0intro/vx32 That's three, I guess there's strength in numbers :-) > It doesn't fix the reported problem anyway. And I'm still praying for the Go fixes, but they don't seem to be much of a priority. It would be nice if the (partial) fixes for OS-X were to find their way into the repository, though. ++L
Re: [9fans] 9vx on mountain lion
> I understood that the consolidated repository was > > https://bitbucket.org/yiyus/vx32 > > Am I missing something? Yiyus' and Ron's repositories have the same content. The current vx32 repository (based on Ron's) is: https://bitbucket.org/0intro/vx32 It doesn't fix the reported problem anyway. -- David du Colombier
Re: [9fans] 9vx on mountain lion
> Try to compile from https://bitbucket.org/rminnich/vx32 I understood that the consolidated repository was https://bitbucket.org/yiyus/vx32 Am I missing something? ++L
Re: [9fans] 9vx on mountain lion
Hello, Thanks for the information. it was bothersome to apply cocoa-screen.m in p9p to screen.c in vx32. The problem comes from the function setcursor() in screen.c. so, for the temporally, I made the function dummy. it seems the compiled 9vx is stable without serious problems. remaining problems are: (a) cursor shape keeps same as that of Mac (b) initial back ground color is white. that should be dark grey. both are bearable for me. thanks for all. Kenji Arisawa On 2013/02/18, at 10:04, Jeff Sickel wrote: > It's the long ago announced (over five years ago) and finally enacted removal > of Carbon APIs that are biting you. At some point someone can pull in the > changes from darwin-cocoa or recent p9p devdraw/cocoa-screen.m to get 9vx to > build and run on OSX 10.8+. > > -jas > > > > On Feb 17, 2013, at 5:09 PM, Benjamin Huntsman > wrote: > >> Nice... I was just getting that same error a few days ago when I tried to >> build it too. >> I chalked it up to some earlier posts that said something along the lines of >> "use a binary from Snow Leopard"... and didn't want to ask around to see if >> it's been fixed. >> >> Glad to see I'm not alone... >> >> -Ben >> > >
Re: [9fans] 9vx on mountain lion
It's the long ago announced (over five years ago) and finally enacted removal of Carbon APIs that are biting you. At some point someone can pull in the changes from darwin-cocoa or recent p9p devdraw/cocoa-screen.m to get 9vx to build and run on OSX 10.8+. -jas On Feb 17, 2013, at 5:09 PM, Benjamin Huntsman wrote: > Nice... I was just getting that same error a few days ago when I tried to > build it too. > I chalked it up to some earlier posts that said something along the lines of > "use a binary from Snow Leopard"... and didn't want to ask around to see if > it's been fixed. > > Glad to see I'm not alone... > > -Ben >
Re: [9fans] 9vx on mountain lion
Nice... I was just getting that same error a few days ago when I tried to build it too. I chalked it up to some earlier posts that said something along the lines of "use a binary from Snow Leopard"... and didn't want to ask around to see if it's been fixed. Glad to see I'm not alone... -Ben
Re: [9fans] 9vx on mountain lion
Thank you, Ярослав. I installed the patch: rminnich-vx32-17a064eed9c2 However, -bash$ gnumake 9vx/osx/screen.c: In function ‘setcursor’: 9vx/osx/screen.c:547: error: ‘OSXCursor’ undeclared (first use in this function) 9vx/osx/screen.c:547: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once 9vx/osx/screen.c:547: error: for each function it appears in.) 9vx/osx/screen.c:547: error: expected ‘;’ before ‘oc’ 9vx/osx/screen.c:552: error: ‘oc’ undeclared (first use in this function) 9vx/osx/screen.c:557: warning: implicit declaration of function ‘SetCursor’ gnumake: *** [9vx/osx/screen.o] Error 1 rm 9vx/factotum.S 9vx/kfs.S 9vx/bzfs.S 9vx/boot.S 9vx/rootfs.S 9vx/venti.S 9vx/fossil.S 9vx/9660srv.S -bash$ anyone fixed this problem? Kenji Arisawa On 2013/02/17, at 17:08, Ярослав Коломієць wrote: > Try to compile from https://bitbucket.org/rminnich/vx32 > >> Hello 9fans, >> >> my 9vx that was in 9vx-0.12 does not work on mountain lion. >> that leads to panic with a message: >> >> -bash$ 9vx.OSX >> 71 rio fault 0x8 no segment >> >> anyone has newer version or patch? >> >> Kenji Arisawa >> >>
Re: [9fans] 9vx on mountain lion
Try to compile from https://bitbucket.org/rminnich/vx32 > Hello 9fans, > > my 9vx that was in 9vx-0.12 does not work on mountain lion. > that leads to panic with a message: > > -bash$ 9vx.OSX > 71 rio fault 0x8 no segment > > anyone has newer version or patch? > > Kenji Arisawa > >
[9fans] 9vx on mountain lion
Hello 9fans, my 9vx that was in 9vx-0.12 does not work on mountain lion. that leads to panic with a message: -bash$ 9vx.OSX 71 rio fault 0x8 no segment anyone has newer version or patch? Kenji Arisawa
Re: [9fans] 9vx and Go
erik quanstrom once said: > > No. They're written using BYTE instructions where needed. > > > > Currently 8g will only generate 387 style fp code but the > > is to eventually use SSE. See http://golang.org/issue/3912. > > > > that's not what i read. i read that it's going to be a compile-time > option. surely they're not sneaking xmm in the side door. Sort of. The plan is to use SSE by default but use an environment variable (and compiler flag) to disable it. This is how it works on ARM for different ABIs. You set GOARM=5 or whatever and the compiler and runtime won't use anything after that revision. Anthony
Re: [9fans] 9vx and Go
> No. They're written using BYTE instructions where needed. > > Currently 8g will only generate 387 style fp code but the > is to eventually use SSE. See http://golang.org/issue/3912. > that's not what i read. i read that it's going to be a compile-time option. surely they're not sneaking xmm in the side door. - erik
Re: [9fans] 9vx and Go
oh no, not MMX. SSE/SSE2 surely (ie, XMM)? On 11 December 2012 00:10, Anthony Martin wrote: > It is if you're using MMX registers.
Re: [9fans] 9vx and Go
erik quanstrom once said: > On Mon Dec 10 19:11:39 EST 2012, al...@pbrane.org wrote: > > Charles Forsyth once said: > > > MOVQ isn't a 32-bit instruction. > > > > It is if you're using MMX registers. > > does 8g default to using mmx? No. They're written using BYTE instructions where needed. Currently 8g will only generate 387 style fp code but the is to eventually use SSE. See http://golang.org/issue/3912. Anthony
Re: [9fans] 9vx and Go
On Mon Dec 10 19:11:39 EST 2012, al...@pbrane.org wrote: > Charles Forsyth once said: > > MOVQ isn't a 32-bit instruction. > > It is if you're using MMX registers. does 8g default to using mmx? - erik
Re: [9fans] 9vx and Go
Charles Forsyth once said: > MOVQ isn't a 32-bit instruction. It is if you're using MMX registers. Anthony
Re: [9fans] 9vx and Go
MOVQ isn't a 32-bit instruction. On 10 December 2012 16:42, Anthony Martin wrote: > There's also a few instructions (MOVQ, EMMS, etc.)
Re: [9fans] 9vx and Go
lu...@proxima.alt.za once said: > > Yes, the tsemacquire syscall is not currently implemented in 9vx. > > The "ticks" field is also not present in the mach structure, so adding > tsemacquire isn't trivial. I was hoping to get away with just adding > the field, but if the comment is correct, I need at minimum to add > code to keep the ticks up to date and I can't seem to find model code > in Plan 9 to do it. I guess I'm drowning... I have a few patches to support Go in my vx32 tree. I've made lots of other changes so it might take me a while to get a clean patch to David. For tsemacquire, you can just s/m->ticks/msec()/. There's also a few instructions (MOVQ, EMMS, etc.) that have to be added to libvx32/emu.c since the Go runtime and standard library use them. Cheers, Anthony
Re: [9fans] 9vx and Go
> Yes, the tsemacquire syscall is not currently implemented in 9vx. The "ticks" field is also not present in the mach structure, so adding tsemacquire isn't trivial. I was hoping to get away with just adding the field, but if the comment is correct, I need at minimum to add code to keep the ticks up to date and I can't seem to find model code in Plan 9 to do it. I guess I'm drowning... ++L
Re: [9fans] 9vx and Go
> If you plan to work on vx32, please use the following > repository, since it should contain the most recent work. > > https://bitbucket.org/0intro/vx32 > > You could send patches directly to myself since Ron Minnich > handed the repository off to me. Will do... ++L
Re: [9fans] 9vx and Go
> Trying to execute Go programs in 9vx suggests that somehow the new > syscalls required by the Go runtime are not supported. There are a > few possible ways in which my installation is at fault, but before I > dig deeper (or ask different questions) I want to know that the > problem is not in 9vx itself. > > If I need to update 9vx in some way, it is definitely worth my while > to do so. Yes, the tsemacquire syscall is not currently implemented in 9vx. If you plan to work on vx32, please use the following repository, since it should contain the most recent work. https://bitbucket.org/0intro/vx32 You could send patches directly to myself since Ron Minnich handed the repository off to me. -- David du Colombier
[9fans] 9vx and Go
Trying to execute Go programs in 9vx suggests that somehow the new syscalls required by the Go runtime are not supported. There are a few possible ways in which my installation is at fault, but before I dig deeper (or ask different questions) I want to know that the problem is not in 9vx itself. If I need to update 9vx in some way, it is definitely worth my while to do so. ++L
Re: [9fans] 9vx instability
> Mein Kampf was clearly not included to promote Nazi ideals, as Germans > (who are probably the target audience) aren't even allowed to possess > this book. So in practice the joke punishes every law-abiding German > citizen by disallowing them to download 9front. Possession of "Mein Kampf" is not illegal in Germany. It just cannot be published at the moment because the respective rights are with the state of Bavaria until 2016, when the text will enter the public domain. -- Dennis den Brok
Re: [9fans] 9vx instability
cinap_len...@gmx.de once said: > /lib/mainkampf is part of an ongoing project to make > venti sha-1 hashes easy to remember by translating > them into hitler-speeches. Well now that it's gone, how about using excerpts from Industrial Society and its Future? I can send a patch to add /lib/kaczynski. Anthony
Re: [9fans] 9vx instability
2011/11/27 erik quanstrom : >> >> I suspect one of the reasons why 9front exists is because some people >> in the Plan 9 community this days seem to take themselves and the >> whole project a bit too seriously. >> >> Which is kind of weird for a project called after an Ed Wood film. > > uriel, what you say would make sense if the "jokes" didn't include putting > mein kampf in /lib. I thought this was a disgusting joke by Eric. Sorry Eric! Andrés
Re: [9fans] 9vx instability
Mein Kampf was clearly not included to promote Nazi ideals, as Germans (who are probably the target audience) aren't even allowed to possess this book. So in practice the joke punishes every law-abiding German citizen by disallowing them to download 9front.
Re: [9fans] 9vx instability
On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 2:09 PM, Lyndon Nerenberg wrote: > On Sun, 27 Nov 2011, Dan Cross wrote: >> On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 11:32 PM, wrote: >>> /lib/mainkampf is part of an ongoing project to make >>> venti sha-1 hashes easy to remember by translating >>> them into hitler-speeches. >> >> It's also, frankly, offensive. > > I think 'disgusting' describes it better. That's certainly true of the work (mein kampf) itself. - Dan C.
Re: [9fans] 9vx instability
I like some of the fun in 9front, /lib/theo in special, and I dislike the idea of having the US constitution in /lib. But my point is that I think it is a little bit too much having Mein Kampf in there. It seems to me some people needed attention and adding such a disgusting text to the tree was the obvious way to get it. As was pointed out, people need to grow up, and I should add that one should only make jokes that one can sustain outside the internet. As a mostly silent contributor to 9front, I think we have interesting technical stuff to put forth and that kind of 'look how I am controversial' game is not one of them. On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 4:34 PM, Skip Tavakkolian wrote: > this reasoning is so ridiculous that i have to believe you're trolling. > > the U.S. Constitution has been the foundation for the rule of law in > this country for 200+ years, and the Gettysburg address honored the > fallen and the ideals -- equality for all men -- that they died for. > why would anyone think that racist propaganda or hate speech should > have equal space in /lib? > > some 70 million people were killed during WWII, partly because some > people believed the propaganda that is Mein Kampf. there's nothing > funny about that. > > please, grow up! > > -Skip > > On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 3:57 PM, Jacob Todd wrote: >> The constitution and the gettysburg address are in there, too. >> >> On Nov 26, 2011 6:51 PM, "erik quanstrom" wrote: >>> >>> > 9front seems to me to define itself as: having fun while getting >>> > useful stuff done. With an emphasis in *fun* and in not taking >>> > anything too seriously, while one the technical side favoring >>> > simplicity and things that work. >>> > >>> > This might not be exactly the same original Plan 9 values, but seems >>> > close enough. Of course in 9front there is also an element of trolling >>> > and poking fun at itself and anything else, and I will be happy if >>> > cat-v.org takes the blame for that. >>> > >>> > > to be honest, it's one of the reasons i've stopped following 9front. >>> > > >>> > > to paraphrase a saying in mathematics, it's not enough to be good >>> > > you must also be humble. why do you think dennis' ideas took >>> > > over? >>> > >>> > I think an important form of humility is not taking yourself too >>> > seriously. For an example of this see Dennis' Anti-Foreword to The >>> > UNIX-HATERS Handbook: http://simson.net/ref/ugh.pdf >>> > >>> > 9front can't claim to reach such exquisite levels of "seriousness", >>> > but it tries. >>> > >>> > I suspect one of the reasons why 9front exists is because some people >>> > in the Plan 9 community this days seem to take themselves and the >>> > whole project a bit too seriously. >>> > >>> > Which is kind of weird for a project called after an Ed Wood film. >>> >>> uriel, what you say would make sense if the "jokes" didn't include putting >>> mein kampf in /lib. >>> >>> - erik >>> >> > >
Re: [9fans] 9vx instability
On Sun, 27 Nov 2011, Dan Cross wrote: On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 11:32 PM, wrote: /lib/mainkampf is part of an ongoing project to make venti sha-1 hashes easy to remember by translating them into hitler-speeches. It's also, frankly, offensive. I think 'disgusting' describes it better.
Re: [9fans] 9vx instability
On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 12:34 PM, Skip Tavakkolian wrote: > this reasoning is so ridiculous that i have to believe you're trolling. > > the U.S. Constitution has been the foundation for the rule of law in > this country for 200+ years, and the Gettysburg address honored the > fallen and the ideals -- equality for all men -- that they died for. > why would anyone think that racist propaganda or hate speech should > have equal space in /lib? > > some 70 million people were killed during WWII, partly because some > people believed the propaganda that is Mein Kampf. there's nothing > funny about that. > > please, grow up! http://img.stanleylieber.com/src/12931/img/1322420160.png
Re: [9fans] 9vx instability
this reasoning is so ridiculous that i have to believe you're trolling. the U.S. Constitution has been the foundation for the rule of law in this country for 200+ years, and the Gettysburg address honored the fallen and the ideals -- equality for all men -- that they died for. why would anyone think that racist propaganda or hate speech should have equal space in /lib? some 70 million people were killed during WWII, partly because some people believed the propaganda that is Mein Kampf. there's nothing funny about that. please, grow up! -Skip On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 3:57 PM, Jacob Todd wrote: > The constitution and the gettysburg address are in there, too. > > On Nov 26, 2011 6:51 PM, "erik quanstrom" wrote: >> >> > 9front seems to me to define itself as: having fun while getting >> > useful stuff done. With an emphasis in *fun* and in not taking >> > anything too seriously, while one the technical side favoring >> > simplicity and things that work. >> > >> > This might not be exactly the same original Plan 9 values, but seems >> > close enough. Of course in 9front there is also an element of trolling >> > and poking fun at itself and anything else, and I will be happy if >> > cat-v.org takes the blame for that. >> > >> > > to be honest, it's one of the reasons i've stopped following 9front. >> > > >> > > to paraphrase a saying in mathematics, it's not enough to be good >> > > you must also be humble. why do you think dennis' ideas took >> > > over? >> > >> > I think an important form of humility is not taking yourself too >> > seriously. For an example of this see Dennis' Anti-Foreword to The >> > UNIX-HATERS Handbook: http://simson.net/ref/ugh.pdf >> > >> > 9front can't claim to reach such exquisite levels of "seriousness", >> > but it tries. >> > >> > I suspect one of the reasons why 9front exists is because some people >> > in the Plan 9 community this days seem to take themselves and the >> > whole project a bit too seriously. >> > >> > Which is kind of weird for a project called after an Ed Wood film. >> >> uriel, what you say would make sense if the "jokes" didn't include putting >> mein kampf in /lib. >> >> - erik >> >
Re: [9fans] 9vx instability
On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 11:32 PM, wrote: > /lib/mainkampf is part of an ongoing project to make > venti sha-1 hashes easy to remember by translating > them into hitler-speeches. It's also, frankly, offensive.
Re: [9fans] 9vx instability
On 11/27/11 14:39, yy wrote: 2011/11/21 Jens Staal: What I would like to know is if you can boot a plan9 system from iso via 9vx as "persistent" partition whereas changes are saved to another directory (so basically setting up a union mount between the iso and a directory) - alternatively specifying an alternative path for $home using 9vx booting from an iso. I've written a small script to help with this. From the comments: # Usage: 9vxi [9vx options] # If set, $localroot is used as root, # and $home as the home directory. # If localroot is not set. search for it: # first in the cwd, then at $HOME. # initrc is ignored. Other options are # just passed to 9vx. # # If found, $home/lib/profile is used, # else a default profile is supplied. If you have a plan9.iso file in your $HOME directory, running 9vxi without arguments should be enough to boot from that iso file with an usable environment: $HOME is used as your home directory, ramdisk provides a writable /tmp and the plumber uses glenda's rules. If you need something fancier (for example, binding a writable source tree from a sysfromiso repository), create a lib/profile file. Awesome! Thanks! I will look into it.
Re: [9fans] 9vx instability
2011/11/21 Jens Staal : > What I would like to know is if you can boot a plan9 system from iso via 9vx > as "persistent" partition whereas changes are saved to another directory (so > basically setting up a union mount between the iso and a directory) - > alternatively specifying an alternative path for $home using 9vx booting > from an iso. > I've written a small script to help with this. From the comments: # Usage: 9vxi [9vx options] # If set, $localroot is used as root, # and $home as the home directory. # If localroot is not set. search for it: # first in the cwd, then at $HOME. # initrc is ignored. Other options are # just passed to 9vx. # # If found, $home/lib/profile is used, # else a default profile is supplied. If you have a plan9.iso file in your $HOME directory, running 9vxi without arguments should be enough to boot from that iso file with an usable environment: $HOME is used as your home directory, ramdisk provides a writable /tmp and the plumber uses glenda's rules. If you need something fancier (for example, binding a writable source tree from a sysfromiso repository), create a lib/profile file. -- - yiyus || JGL . 9vxi Description: Binary data
Re: [9fans] 9vx instability
/lib/mainkampf is part of an ongoing project to make venti sha-1 hashes easy to remember by translating them into hitler-speeches. -- cinap
Re: [9fans] 9vx instability
no, but the communist manifesto ;) -- cinap
Re: [9fans] 9vx instability
>> uriel, what you say would make sense if the "jokes" didn't include putting >> mein kampf in /lib. > The constitution and the gettysburg address are in there, too. Is this balanced by having "The Diary of Ann Frank" in there, too? ++L
Re: [9fans] 9vx instability
On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 3:40 PM, erik quanstrom wrote: >> 9front seems to me to define itself as: having fun while getting >> useful stuff done. With an emphasis in *fun* and in not taking >> anything too seriously, while one the technical side favoring >> simplicity and things that work. >> >> This might not be exactly the same original Plan 9 values, but seems >> close enough. Of course in 9front there is also an element of trolling >> and poking fun at itself and anything else, and I will be happy if >> cat-v.org takes the blame for that. >> >> > to be honest, it's one of the reasons i've stopped following 9front. >> > >> > to paraphrase a saying in mathematics, it's not enough to be good >> > you must also be humble. why do you think dennis' ideas took >> > over? >> >> I think an important form of humility is not taking yourself too >> seriously. For an example of this see Dennis' Anti-Foreword to The >> UNIX-HATERS Handbook: http://simson.net/ref/ugh.pdf >> >> 9front can't claim to reach such exquisite levels of "seriousness", >> but it tries. >> >> I suspect one of the reasons why 9front exists is because some people >> in the Plan 9 community this days seem to take themselves and the >> whole project a bit too seriously. >> >> Which is kind of weird for a project called after an Ed Wood film. > > uriel, what you say would make sense if the "jokes" didn't include putting > mein kampf in /lib. > > - erik > hopefully the 9front kids understand that /lib is not a real library; it is not required to have a copy of every a piece of drivel ever written. -Skip
Re: [9fans] 9vx instability
The constitution and the gettysburg address are in there, too. On Nov 26, 2011 6:51 PM, "erik quanstrom" wrote: > > 9front seems to me to define itself as: having fun while getting > > useful stuff done. With an emphasis in *fun* and in not taking > > anything too seriously, while one the technical side favoring > > simplicity and things that work. > > > > This might not be exactly the same original Plan 9 values, but seems > > close enough. Of course in 9front there is also an element of trolling > > and poking fun at itself and anything else, and I will be happy if > > cat-v.org takes the blame for that. > > > > > to be honest, it's one of the reasons i've stopped following 9front. > > > > > > to paraphrase a saying in mathematics, it's not enough to be good > > > you must also be humble. why do you think dennis' ideas took > > > over? > > > > I think an important form of humility is not taking yourself too > > seriously. For an example of this see Dennis' Anti-Foreword to The > > UNIX-HATERS Handbook: http://simson.net/ref/ugh.pdf > > > > 9front can't claim to reach such exquisite levels of "seriousness", > > but it tries. > > > > I suspect one of the reasons why 9front exists is because some people > > in the Plan 9 community this days seem to take themselves and the > > whole project a bit too seriously. > > > > Which is kind of weird for a project called after an Ed Wood film. > > uriel, what you say would make sense if the "jokes" didn't include putting > mein kampf in /lib. > > - erik > >
Re: [9fans] 9vx instability
> 9front seems to me to define itself as: having fun while getting > useful stuff done. With an emphasis in *fun* and in not taking > anything too seriously, while one the technical side favoring > simplicity and things that work. > > This might not be exactly the same original Plan 9 values, but seems > close enough. Of course in 9front there is also an element of trolling > and poking fun at itself and anything else, and I will be happy if > cat-v.org takes the blame for that. > > > to be honest, it's one of the reasons i've stopped following 9front. > > > > to paraphrase a saying in mathematics, it's not enough to be good > > you must also be humble. why do you think dennis' ideas took > > over? > > I think an important form of humility is not taking yourself too > seriously. For an example of this see Dennis' Anti-Foreword to The > UNIX-HATERS Handbook: http://simson.net/ref/ugh.pdf > > 9front can't claim to reach such exquisite levels of "seriousness", > but it tries. > > I suspect one of the reasons why 9front exists is because some people > in the Plan 9 community this days seem to take themselves and the > whole project a bit too seriously. > > Which is kind of weird for a project called after an Ed Wood film. uriel, what you say would make sense if the "jokes" didn't include putting mein kampf in /lib. - erik
Re: [9fans] 9vx instability
On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 3:02 AM, erik quanstrom wrote: > if folks have a problem with 9front it is not technical. folks don't > get that far. it is because 9front appears to have defined itself in > criticism > of people (not code). and further defined itself by some offensive files. > this makes 9front appear less than serious. 9front seems to me to define itself as: having fun while getting useful stuff done. With an emphasis in *fun* and in not taking anything too seriously, while one the technical side favoring simplicity and things that work. This might not be exactly the same original Plan 9 values, but seems close enough. Of course in 9front there is also an element of trolling and poking fun at itself and anything else, and I will be happy if cat-v.org takes the blame for that. > to be honest, it's one of the reasons i've stopped following 9front. > > to paraphrase a saying in mathematics, it's not enough to be good > you must also be humble. why do you think dennis' ideas took > over? I think an important form of humility is not taking yourself too seriously. For an example of this see Dennis' Anti-Foreword to The UNIX-HATERS Handbook: http://simson.net/ref/ugh.pdf 9front can't claim to reach such exquisite levels of "seriousness", but it tries. I suspect one of the reasons why 9front exists is because some people in the Plan 9 community this days seem to take themselves and the whole project a bit too seriously. Which is kind of weird for a project called after an Ed Wood film. uriel
Re: [9fans] 9vx instability
A good clue might have been that they're "Sharepoint" experts. On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 11:01 AM, Stanley Lieber wrote: > > The article linked above is an example of poor journalism, complete > with misquotes and fabricated quotes. >
Re: [9fans] 9vx instability
> No one involved with 9front saw the text of the article before it was posted. I think you've explained your position reasonably, let's hope that this serves as a lesson to those involved as well as to asnyone else exposing to the press what can only be a controversial issue. ++L
Re: [9fans] 9vx instability
On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 9:46 PM, Lucio De Re wrote: > Is it too late to merge Plan 9, 9front and NIX by applying patches as > the Go Authors do with their stuff? The divergence is probably already too wide for merging with simple patches, but 9front's changes are of course available to anyone. I believe cinap has also submitted some of it back to Geoff. On a related note: I don't believe the existence of the various forks is necessarily an indicator of fractious intent. Rather, the forks provide a "safe area" to explore changes and practices that are either too new, too questionable, or simply too numerous to be considered for inclusion in the Bell Labs release at the present time. It's natural that like-minded individuals, sensing their common interest, will congregate and undertake this sort of activity as a group. Historically, forks of Plan 9 are nothing new. See: Plan B, Octopus, 9atom, etc. Which brings me to the question of Nazi humor. http://img.stanleylieber.com/src/12876/img/1322195554.jpg -sl
Re: [9fans] 9vx instability
On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 9:37 PM, Lucio De Re wrote: >> I take full responsibility for the misunderstandings, though >> I wonder why we're all so credulous when it comes to articles on >> websites. > > Because that's the point of journalism. You ought to have made sure > that the community affected by the article was informed about its > inaccuracies. I do however appreciate your belated acknowledgements, > even though I'm not sure I'm speaking for anyone else. I probably should have posted something here. The debacle was discussed at length amongst the 9front co-conspirators. For what it's worth, I apologize for any negative repercussions caused by agreeing to be interviewed by sdtimes.com. note: http://plan9.stanleylieber.com/9front/press/sdtimes.png -sl
Re: [9fans] 9vx instability
On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 9:30 PM, Lucio De Re wrote: >> I have great respect for Geoff and what he has been and continues to >> do for Plan 9. > > I'd like to add my voice to this. And I take exception to Schmidt > taking the glory for cwfs, which is Geoff Collyer's work and is not in > any way to be treated as a sequel to Fossil. Schmidt didn't take credit for anything. The reporter asked about the changes in 9front and we tried to explain; starting with an overview of what Plan 9 is, and proceeding on to a description of the hows and whys of the changes. The reporter drew his own conclusions and presented them as facts (and sometimes, as quotes). The article is filled with these sorts of inaccuracies. No one involved with 9front saw the text of the article before it was posted. -sl
Re: [9fans] 9vx instability
> so it is childish to replace 9load? or build a distribution that > uses the stable and robust cwfs instead of fossil? write an > audio layer? moving realmode and keyboard processing to userspace? > unify the boot process to to break into rc shell, so one can > at see what hardware got detected, poke at ctl files ect? Is it out of the question to set up a CodeReview facility and apply it to the entire Plan 9 source tree? Maybe I ought to try it. Is it too late to merge Plan 9, 9front and NIX by applying patches as the Go Authors do with their stuff? ++L
Re: [9fans] 9vx instability
> I take full responsibility for the misunderstandings, though > I wonder why we're all so credulous when it comes to articles on > websites. Because that's the point of journalism. You ought to have made sure that the community affected by the article was informed about its inaccuracies. I do however appreciate your belated acknowledgements, even though I'm not sure I'm speaking for anyone else. ++L
Re: [9fans] 9vx instability
> I have great respect for Geoff and what he has been and continues to > do for Plan 9. I'd like to add my voice to this. And I take exception to Schmidt taking the glory for cwfs, which is Geoff Collyer's work and is not in any way to be treated as a sequel to Fossil. ++L
Re: [9fans] 9vx instability
On Thu Nov 24 15:40:16 EST 2011, cinap_len...@gmx.de wrote: > so it is childish to replace 9load? or build a distribution that > uses the stable and robust cwfs instead of fossil? write an > audio layer? moving realmode and keyboard processing to userspace? > unify the boot process to to break into rc shell, so one can > at see what hardware got detected, poke at ctl files ect? my intention here is not to offend. i like you, i like your code. but i think this defense misses the point entirely. if folks have a problem with 9front it is not technical. folks don't get that far. it is because 9front appears to have defined itself in criticism of people (not code). and further defined itself by some offensive files. this makes 9front appear less than serious. to be honest, it's one of the reasons i've stopped following 9front. to paraphrase a saying in mathematics, it's not enough to be good you must also be humble. why do you think dennis' ideas took over? - erik
Re: [9fans] 9vx instability
neither am I. I was saying it would have been much better to see which one was the problem with patches and address it. have fun. On Thursday, November 24, 2011, ron minnich wrote: > Um, cinap, just FYI, I was not aiming at you or anyone else in > particular. Sorry if it sounded that way. > > It's a holiday here, and not many other places, but still ... happy > -day everyone! > > ron > > -- ipad kbd. excuse typos.
Re: [9fans] 9vx instability
Um, cinap, just FYI, I was not aiming at you or anyone else in particular. Sorry if it sounded that way. It's a holiday here, and not many other places, but still ... happy -day everyone! ron
Re: [9fans] 9vx instability
so it is childish to replace 9load? or build a distribution that uses the stable and robust cwfs instead of fossil? write an audio layer? moving realmode and keyboard processing to userspace? unify the boot process to to break into rc shell, so one can at see what hardware got detected, poke at ctl files ect? should have just put it in a tgz on contrib and expect someone to find it so we finally get some test coverage? sometimes, the plan9 boot cd doesnt even manage to get the kernel loaded thanks to 9load. 9front doesnt support 64 bit 1 core machines for sure, thats what the real adults do! it only gets pc's booted into a graphical rio with audio support more often. these kidz from the peoples front of cat-v even managed to write some working device drivers! (OMG! LINUX) but this doesnt matter these days i guess, because we'll run our builds in p9p or 9vx on our shiny new macbooks instead. grow up cinap! grow up! -- cinap
Re: [9fans] 9vx instability
On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 10:25 AM, erik quanstrom wrote: >> This, to be honest, doesn't say much. >> However, recently I stumbled over this: >> http://www.sptechweb.com/content/article.aspx?ArticleID=35742&print=true > > geoff did cwfs, and has done more to maintain the system > than the rest of us put together. he has my respect for that. > > thanks, geoff. Absolutely. What was interesting when I was frequently updating sysfromiso was watching the continuous flow of improvements in code from Bell Labs. But in the Plan 9 style, the number of lines changed could be small in number, yet potent in impact. Plan 9 is very much alive. It lacks the near continuous code churn of many open source projects -- a virtue! -- while continuing to add new support for new hardware and code improvements. Changes are not made for change sake; they are made because they make real improvements in the system. It's hard not to like that. ron
Re: [9fans] 9vx instability
The work of Geoff and everyone inside and outside of Bell Labs who have contributed over the years is greatly appreciated. Obviously, none of us would be here talking about Plan 9 without their contributions. It's because of their hard work that we have a base from which to launch our experiments. The article linked above is an example of poor journalism, complete with misquotes and fabricated quotes. I made the unfortunate mistake of entertaining the author's queries and inviting him to our IRC channel. I take full responsibility for the misunderstandings, though I wonder why we're all so credulous when it comes to articles on websites. 9front exists to have fun and learn by working with the system. That's what we're doing. -sl
Re: [9fans] 9vx instability
I'm impressed by the work Geoff, and others do on Plan9, and I'm not talking about 9front at all. Jim, Charles, and others made an excellent port for amd64, which is cleaner that any other system I've seen. We used that as a starting point for nix. I think is childish to fork a system because the code sent to maintainers is either not desired or good enough or whatever. most of us have our own set of changes and exchange them at will. The good think in plan 9 has always been the quality of the system and the quality of its code, and I'd like it to stay that way and thank Geoff for keeping it that way. Just look at files that change in sources. it's impressive the amount of work still ongoing in plan 9. As said before in this list, if you want Linux, you know where to find it. I'm sure the standard there is not that high. On Thursday, November 24, 2011, erik quanstrom wrote: >> This, to be honest, doesn't say much. >> However, recently I stumbled over this: >> http://www.sptechweb.com/content/article.aspx?ArticleID=35742&print=true > > geoff did cwfs, and has done more to maintain the system > than the rest of us put together. he has my respect for that. > > thanks, geoff. > > - erik > > -- ipad kbd. excuse typos.
Re: [9fans] 9vx instability
it seems to me that cat-v.org is in the business of promoting itself. i've had patches that were accepted and some that were rejected for good reasons. please point out the rejected patches (which are also kept) so that we can judge the veracity of the claims being made. I have great respect for Geoff and what he has been and continues to do for Plan 9. -Skip On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 9:56 AM, Rudolf Sykora wrote: >>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:44 PM, Anton wrote: >>> Btw, why there are 9atom and 9front? >>> I mean, why they aren't joined together? What the difference between them? > > On 22 November 2011 00:02, Skip Tavakkolian > wrote: >> because 9fans not only agree to disagree, they also disagree to agree :) > > This, to be honest, doesn't say much. > However, recently I stumbled over this: > http://www.sptechweb.com/content/article.aspx?ArticleID=35742&print=true > > Ruda > >
Re: [9fans] 9vx instability
> This, to be honest, doesn't say much. > However, recently I stumbled over this: > http://www.sptechweb.com/content/article.aspx?ArticleID=35742&print=true geoff did cwfs, and has done more to maintain the system than the rest of us put together. he has my respect for that. thanks, geoff. - erik
Re: [9fans] 9vx instability
>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:44 PM, Anton wrote: >> Btw, why there are 9atom and 9front? >> I mean, why they aren't joined together? What the difference between them? On 22 November 2011 00:02, Skip Tavakkolian wrote: > because 9fans not only agree to disagree, they also disagree to agree :) This, to be honest, doesn't say much. However, recently I stumbled over this: http://www.sptechweb.com/content/article.aspx?ArticleID=35742&print=true Ruda
Re: [9fans] 9vx instability
You mean -1, don't you? On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 5:40 PM, Yaroslav wrote: > 2011/11/22 Skip Tavakkolian : >> because 9fans not only agree to disagree, they also disagree to agree :) > > +1 > >
Re: [9fans] 9vx instability
2011/11/22 Skip Tavakkolian : > because 9fans not only agree to disagree, they also disagree to agree :) +1
Re: [9fans] 9vx instability
In this case, it seems to be less agreement or disagreement than significantly different experiences. Some of that is caused by using 9vx differently, but it also happens that the version of 9vx that others are using has a great many non-trivial differences with the much older one I'm using, and also configuration options. They aren't really directly comparable. Probably the only good advice is to "try running it for a while with your particular workload and see how you get on". If it does fail, however, and you're not doing anything too demanding, and you're running Linux, ask me for a copy of the executable I'm running to see if that fares any better.
Re: [9fans] 9vx instability
On Mon Nov 21 18:03:32 EST 2011, skip.tavakkol...@gmail.com wrote: > because 9fans not only agree to disagree, they also disagree to agree :) i'll agree to that! - erik
Re: [9fans] 9vx instability
because 9fans not only agree to disagree, they also disagree to agree :) On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:44 PM, Anton wrote: > Yep, with 3.1 9vx runs fine for an hour already. However, I want to > try installing Plan 9 natively. Tomorrow. Btw, why there are 9atom and > 9front? > I mean, why they aren't joined together? What the difference between them? > 2011/11/22 Skip Tavakkolian >> >> i'll modify what i said to "... suspect the host os first". it's been >> my experience that every autoupdate on Ubuntu and Windows brings in >> its share of new bugs (hopefully less than the number of bugs it >> fixes) >> >> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:32 PM, erik quanstrom >> wrote: >> > On Mon Nov 21 15:20:58 EST 2011, skip.tavakkol...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> i run 9vx occasionally. a while back i built 9vx from ron's >> >> repository. i was having problems with it under Ubuntu 10.04 x86_64, >> >> where sometimes both cores were pegged at 100%; it was a problem with >> >> linux (judging by ubuntu mailing lists). without changing 9vx, things >> >> got stable after 10.10 (currently on 11.10). so, when in doubt, >> >> suspect the host os. >> > >> > !? the fact that one bug was found in linux doesn't imply that bugs are >> > likely >> > in any host os. the oses are better tested than 9vx, so given no other >> > information >> > i would conclude the opposite; 9vx is more likely at fault. and >> > regardless, we >> > have little chance of fixing the os. >> > >> > - erik >> > >> > >> > >
Re: [9fans] 9vx instability
Yep, with 3.1 9vx runs fine for an hour already. However, I want to try installing Plan 9 natively. Tomorrow. Btw, why there are 9atom and 9front? I mean, why they aren't joined together? What the difference between them? 2011/11/22 Skip Tavakkolian > i'll modify what i said to "... suspect the host os first". it's been > my experience that every autoupdate on Ubuntu and Windows brings in > its share of new bugs (hopefully less than the number of bugs it > fixes) > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:32 PM, erik quanstrom > wrote: > > On Mon Nov 21 15:20:58 EST 2011, skip.tavakkol...@gmail.com wrote: > >> i run 9vx occasionally. a while back i built 9vx from ron's > >> repository. i was having problems with it under Ubuntu 10.04 x86_64, > >> where sometimes both cores were pegged at 100%; it was a problem with > >> linux (judging by ubuntu mailing lists). without changing 9vx, things > >> got stable after 10.10 (currently on 11.10). so, when in doubt, > >> suspect the host os. > > > > !? the fact that one bug was found in linux doesn't imply that bugs are > likely > > in any host os. the oses are better tested than 9vx, so given no other > information > > i would conclude the opposite; 9vx is more likely at fault. and > regardless, we > > have little chance of fixing the os. > > > > - erik > > > > > >
Re: [9fans] 9vx instability
i'll modify what i said to "... suspect the host os first". it's been my experience that every autoupdate on Ubuntu and Windows brings in its share of new bugs (hopefully less than the number of bugs it fixes) On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:32 PM, erik quanstrom wrote: > On Mon Nov 21 15:20:58 EST 2011, skip.tavakkol...@gmail.com wrote: >> i run 9vx occasionally. a while back i built 9vx from ron's >> repository. i was having problems with it under Ubuntu 10.04 x86_64, >> where sometimes both cores were pegged at 100%; it was a problem with >> linux (judging by ubuntu mailing lists). without changing 9vx, things >> got stable after 10.10 (currently on 11.10). so, when in doubt, >> suspect the host os. > > !? the fact that one bug was found in linux doesn't imply that bugs are > likely > in any host os. the oses are better tested than 9vx, so given no other > information > i would conclude the opposite; 9vx is more likely at fault. and regardless, > we > have little chance of fixing the os. > > - erik > >
Re: [9fans] 9vx instability
2011/11/21 Anthony Martin : > I had this happen to me a few times but I never > took the time to track it down. I haven't had > it happen since I upgraded my kernel to 3.1. I can confirm this. I don't know how to be sure it is solved, but the problem used to appear after a few minutes of use and, after updating to 3.1, everything has been running fine for a few hours. It would be interesting to know what has changed. I don't think it was a bug in the kernel, since it only happened when running 9vx, but I don't really have the time to investigate it now. Thanks to Anthony for the tip! -- - yiyus || JGL .
Re: [9fans] 9vx instability
On Mon Nov 21 15:20:58 EST 2011, skip.tavakkol...@gmail.com wrote: > i run 9vx occasionally. a while back i built 9vx from ron's > repository. i was having problems with it under Ubuntu 10.04 x86_64, > where sometimes both cores were pegged at 100%; it was a problem with > linux (judging by ubuntu mailing lists). without changing 9vx, things > got stable after 10.10 (currently on 11.10). so, when in doubt, > suspect the host os. !? the fact that one bug was found in linux doesn't imply that bugs are likely in any host os. the oses are better tested than 9vx, so given no other information i would conclude the opposite; 9vx is more likely at fault. and regardless, we have little chance of fixing the os. - erik
Re: [9fans] 9vx instability
i run 9vx occasionally. a while back i built 9vx from ron's
repository. i was having problems with it under Ubuntu 10.04 x86_64,
where sometimes both cores were pegged at 100%; it was a problem with
linux (judging by ubuntu mailing lists). without changing 9vx, things
got stable after 10.10 (currently on 11.10). so, when in doubt,
suspect the host os.
% ls -l `{whatis 9vx}--rwxr-xr-x M 0 root root 5409005 Apr 9 2011
/usr/local/bin/9vx% uname -aLinux hpamd 3.0.0-12-generic #20-Ubuntu
SMP Fri Oct 7 14:56:25 UTC 2011 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
-Skip
On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 9:26 AM, Jens Staal wrote:
> On 11/21/11 18:09, Anton wrote:
>>
>> > If you're on linux, you should consider kvm + kvmtool + plan 9
>> AFAIK, kvmtool wasn't integrated into 3.1. Is it stable/mature enough to
>> run plan 9?
>>
>> > i have to say my experience is quite different
>> Hm, that's odd. 9vx runs ok in ubuntu in tinycore, but not in arch. Maybe
>> the thing is in Arch's kernel config or patches (although, stock kernel is
>> quite vanilla...)?
>> Are there Arch users to confirm?
>
> I have not had any problems, but I run the 9vx-hg package (could be a vx32
> version difference?). The freezing behaviour seems very strange - something
> with the WM? I run dwm now and KDE before and did not experience any freezes
> due to vx32 in either. The only crashes I have experienced have been some
> experimental compiles (never succeeded under 9vx) using the Plan9 port of
> GCC 3.0, but those crashes were quite graceful and did not bother the rest
> of my system.
>
>
>
Re: [9fans] 9vx instability
On Nov 21, 2011, at 9:14 AM, Anton wrote: > > What are the problems with trying to boot it natively? > As you correctly suggested, my wireless card isn't supported and connecting > laptop through the Ethernet cable to my router located in another room is > somewhat inconvenient. Also, I'm not sure if my video card (GMA 950 as listed > in specs or 945GME as lspci says) works right (uhm, should I try realemu?) > Of course, I'll be glad if I'm wrong with this incompatibilities. > the graphics card works, I used to have it a 1280x800x32 in a compaq pressario > > Have you tried Erik Quanstro's 9atom kernel? > Nope. I'll give it a try. Actually, I've seen 9atom page, but I didn't find > any difference in hardware support viable for my notebook. And I didn't > understand much on other differences at this moment. it's not about the hardware support list, it's about the hardware listed actually working so, yes 9atom
Re: [9fans] 9vx instability
I can crash 9vx (latest from rminnich's repository) with regularity just by trying to compile Go's 'cmath' package. hosted on OSX, 7 cpus recognized by 9vx: segment 0x3f00 0x4000 segment 0x1000 0x5a000 segment 0x5a000 0x6b000 segment 0x6b000 0x263000 1580 8g: unhandled fault va=162 [11000162] eip=4eb92 cpu0: registers for 8g 1580 FLAGS=0 TRAP=0 ECODE=0 PC=4EB92 USP=35A0 AX 0102 BX 0001 CX 0102 DX 3478 SI 000614AC DI 00236409 BP
Re: [9fans] 9vx instability
>> just normal usage, mk install and such in the nix release, and there >> are times that memory corruption happens. There's been a race in there >> forever, and sometimes you hit it, and things start to go south. how many processors? oh. and which host system?
Re: [9fans] 9vx instability
funny, it's working like a rock here. just fine. maybe I've been lucky. On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 7:39 PM, ron minnich wrote: > just normal usage, mk install and such in the nix release, and there > are times that memory corruption happens. There's been a race in there > forever, and sometimes you hit it, and things start to go south. > > ron > >
