[AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

[Minar Singh]

>From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe
Service' Turning Into 'Business'?
New Delhi, India
Scribes charge from Rs 2,000 to rs 5 lakh for exam (Representational Image)
Scribes charge from Rs 2,000 to rs 5 lakh for exam (Representational Image)
Lack of scribes for candidates with visual impairment has led to a
rampant illegal ‘scribe business’ across the country, activists demand
national scribe banks.
Help offered to visually impaired students in form of scribes is
turning into a business, where on one hand deserving students find it
difficult to get a scribe, on the other hand, many ‘coaching
institutes’ offer scribes as ‘proxy’ candidates to solve papers on
behalf of students in exchange for lakhs of rupees. Depending on the
exams, several visually impaired candidates have reportedly been asked
anywhere from Rs 1 lakh to 5 lakh from scribes.
The availability of scribes in exchange for a large amount of money
has made seeking payments in return for helping in exams an unsaid
norm. This puts candidates, especially those from low-income
backgrounds at a disadvantage.
In 2021, a 31-year-old person with visual impairment, Satvir Jogi, had
to miss his exam as he failed to find a scribe despite multiple
attempts. For Jogi, who has been applying for several government exams
in the last few years, arranging a scribe has always been a challenge.
“Due to a paucity of reading material for visually impaired candidates
— online and in physical form — even the preparation for an exam is
more difficult when compared to visually-abled candidates. To top it
off, we have the biggest challenge of finding scribes. How are these
exams fair and equal for us?” says Jogi.
He adds, “I have given from Rs 1,000 to Rs 2,000 on multiple occasions
to scribes to write my paper. If a visually impaired candidate is
lucky, then they sometimes get a volunteer scribe on time, otherwise,
scribes demand money as per their wish for appearing for exams.”
SCRIBES ALSO BEING USED AS PROXY CANDIDATES
Lack of resources and limited vacancies for the visually impaired has
made many take the illegal route as well. SK Singh, a rights activist
for people with visual impairment and secretary of the National
Association for the Blind, claimed that the scribe business is an open
secret now. It stems from a lack of scribe resources and other
challenges, including not enough material to prepare for exams and
fewer job vacancies for people with visual impairment.
They demand anywhere from Rs 2,000 to just appear for the exam to Rs 5
lakh to clear it. With the demand for more money, scribes also give
services to prepare on the behalf of the candidate and appear for the
exam, alleged SK Singh, a rights activist for people with visual
impairment and secretary of the National Association for the Blind.
“Unemployment rates are at an all-time high and everyone wants to
secure a job. Several scribes have found this opportunity to make
money out of it. They demand anywhere from Rs 2,000 to just appear for
the exam to Rs 5 lakh to clear it. With the demand for more money,
scribes also give services to prepare on the behalf of the candidate
and appear for the exam.”
‘WITH OUR SCRIBES DON’T WORRY ABOUT PASSING EXAM’
To get to know some of the ‘proxy scribes’, News18 tried to contact a
few of them. One such person, who runs a coaching center in Mumbai,
told News18.com, “We have an academy. You only have to give us the
syllabus and make us meet the candidate. We are quite experienced at
it, so you don’t have to worry about passing the exam.”
He said, from teachers to students his academy has scribes candidates
of all ages and for various exams.
Speaking about the fee charged for being the scribe, he said it
depends on the exam. “While the fee is less for the non-technical
exams, the fee will be more for technical exams. But don’t worry about
the fee, we have an installment system also. A candidate can pay even
after they get a job,” he said.
‘NO COMPLAINTS RECEIVED OF SCRIBE BUSINESS’
The authorities, however, claim to not be aware of any ‘scribe
business’ going on in exams.
When News18 contacted the Department of Empowerment of Persons with
Disabilities, which is under the Ministry of Social Justice &
Empowerment, an official, on condition of anonymity, said, “Till now
we have not received any complaints of ‘scribe business’."
“In the future, however, if we get any such complaints we will inquire
about it. Meanwhile, if there are reports of policy being misused,
then the state government can inquire into it.”
The official added, “The policy is made for the betterment of the
candidates, but there are people who might take advantage of the
loophole, but there are bodies to look into it.”
LACK OF CONSENSUS AMONG AUTHORITIES OVER QUALIFICATION, AVAILABILITY OF SCRIBE
The authorities have allegedly also failed to come to a consensus
about implementing guidelines for availing of scribe facilities. While
the guidelines issued by the Ministry of Social 

RE: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

[techsavi.shankar]

Thanks for sharing, thought of raising this issue long back, just stopped 
myself not to do because of not having much dareness to face the negative 
comments.

-Original Message-
From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in  On Behalf 
Of Minar Singh
Sent: 14 August 2022 13:49
To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
Subject: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe 
Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

>From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe Service' 
>Turning Into 'Business'?
New Delhi, India
Scribes charge from Rs 2,000 to rs 5 lakh for exam (Representational Image) 
Scribes charge from Rs 2,000 to rs 5 lakh for exam (Representational Image) 
Lack of scribes for candidates with visual impairment has led to a rampant 
illegal ‘scribe business’ across the country, activists demand national scribe 
banks.
Help offered to visually impaired students in form of scribes is turning into a 
business, where on one hand deserving students find it difficult to get a 
scribe, on the other hand, many ‘coaching institutes’ offer scribes as ‘proxy’ 
candidates to solve papers on behalf of students in exchange for lakhs of 
rupees. Depending on the exams, several visually impaired candidates have 
reportedly been asked anywhere from Rs 1 lakh to 5 lakh from scribes.
The availability of scribes in exchange for a large amount of money has made 
seeking payments in return for helping in exams an unsaid norm. This puts 
candidates, especially those from low-income backgrounds at a disadvantage.
In 2021, a 31-year-old person with visual impairment, Satvir Jogi, had to miss 
his exam as he failed to find a scribe despite multiple attempts. For Jogi, who 
has been applying for several government exams in the last few years, arranging 
a scribe has always been a challenge.
“Due to a paucity of reading material for visually impaired candidates — online 
and in physical form — even the preparation for an exam is more difficult when 
compared to visually-abled candidates. To top it off, we have the biggest 
challenge of finding scribes. How are these exams fair and equal for us?” says 
Jogi.
He adds, “I have given from Rs 1,000 to Rs 2,000 on multiple occasions to 
scribes to write my paper. If a visually impaired candidate is lucky, then they 
sometimes get a volunteer scribe on time, otherwise, scribes demand money as 
per their wish for appearing for exams.”
SCRIBES ALSO BEING USED AS PROXY CANDIDATES Lack of resources and limited 
vacancies for the visually impaired has made many take the illegal route as 
well. SK Singh, a rights activist for people with visual impairment and 
secretary of the National Association for the Blind, claimed that the scribe 
business is an open secret now. It stems from a lack of scribe resources and 
other challenges, including not enough material to prepare for exams and fewer 
job vacancies for people with visual impairment.
They demand anywhere from Rs 2,000 to just appear for the exam to Rs 5 lakh to 
clear it. With the demand for more money, scribes also give services to prepare 
on the behalf of the candidate and appear for the exam, alleged SK Singh, a 
rights activist for people with visual impairment and secretary of the National 
Association for the Blind.
“Unemployment rates are at an all-time high and everyone wants to secure a job. 
Several scribes have found this opportunity to make money out of it. They 
demand anywhere from Rs 2,000 to just appear for the exam to Rs 5 lakh to clear 
it. With the demand for more money, scribes also give services to prepare on 
the behalf of the candidate and appear for the exam.”
‘WITH OUR SCRIBES DON’T WORRY ABOUT PASSING EXAM’
To get to know some of the ‘proxy scribes’, News18 tried to contact a few of 
them. One such person, who runs a coaching center in Mumbai, told News18.com, 
“We have an academy. You only have to give us the syllabus and make us meet the 
candidate. We are quite experienced at it, so you don’t have to worry about 
passing the exam.”
He said, from teachers to students his academy has scribes candidates of all 
ages and for various exams.
Speaking about the fee charged for being the scribe, he said it depends on the 
exam. “While the fee is less for the non-technical exams, the fee will be more 
for technical exams. But don’t worry about the fee, we have an installment 
system also. A candidate can pay even after they get a job,” he said.
‘NO COMPLAINTS RECEIVED OF SCRIBE BUSINESS’
The authorities, however, claim to not be aware of any ‘scribe business’ going 
on in exams.
When News18 contacted the Department of Empowerment of Persons with 
Disabilities, which is under the Ministry of Social Justice & Empowerment, an 
official, on condition of anonymity, said, “Till now we have not received any 
complaints of ‘scribe business’."
“In the future, however, if we get any such complaints we will inquire about 
it. Meanwhile,

RE: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

[Pranav Lal]

I would go for the computer option any day. It gives us control over what we 
write.

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through this mailing list..


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Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

[Vaibhav Saraf]

I was having a discussion with Ajay Minocha over a call about the screen
reader system.

The point he highlighted was that we have multiple screen readers, and
their respective settings. It may happen that our preferred screen reader
is not there, the settings cannot be changed, or any last minute technical
glitch with the system, inaccessible platform, among others.

While it sounds like the best solution on using one's own system, it might
not be as easy as using screen readers on a totally alien system in an exam
centre. A technical issue, few mins wasted, and the candidate will be
having a whole mental toll.

PS - I am not discouraging or against the use of screen readers for exams,
but bringing a point which is often not discussed. And the screen reader
grass might not be always green.


On Sun, 14 Aug 2022 at 22:38, Pranav Lal  wrote:

> I would go for the computer option any day. It gives us control over what
> we write.
>
> --
> Disclaimer:
> 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of
> the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;
>
> 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails
> sent through this mailing list..
>
>
> Search for old postings at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/
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> .
>

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Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

[Nirmal Verma]

Dear All
Indian companies getting exam contracts from the government are very rich
and are capable of implementing any technology. Accessibility engineers and
facilitators training are very small things, they can do it easily.
Additionally the government should be forced to start using voice to text
services for VI candidtes. All suggestions should be put to appropriate
form.
Those students who can use braille should have the option of audio
recording and for objective exams could be made more accessible to remove
the dependency on scribes.
I hope this news item starts system churning and good solutions come out.

regards

Nirmal




On Mon, 15 Aug 2022 at 09:15, Vaibhav Saraf  wrote:

> I was having a discussion with Ajay Minocha over a call about the screen
> reader system.
>
> The point he highlighted was that we have multiple screen readers, and
> their respective settings. It may happen that our preferred screen reader
> is not there, the settings cannot be changed, or any last minute technical
> glitch with the system, inaccessible platform, among others.
>
> While it sounds like the best solution on using one's own system, it might
> not be as easy as using screen readers on a totally alien system in an exam
> centre. A technical issue, few mins wasted, and the candidate will be
> having a whole mental toll.
>
> PS - I am not discouraging or against the use of screen readers for exams,
> but bringing a point which is often not discussed. And the screen reader
> grass might not be always green.
>
>
> On Sun, 14 Aug 2022 at 22:38, Pranav Lal  wrote:
>
>> I would go for the computer option any day. It gives us control over what
>> we write.
>>
>> --
>> Disclaimer:
>> 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of
>> the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;
>>
>> 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the
>> mails sent through this mailing list..
>>
>>
>> Search for old postings at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "AccessIndia" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to accessindia+unsubscr...@accessindia.org.in.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/a/accessindia.org.in/d/msgid/accessindia/01d8b050%2424634f30%246d29ed90%24%40gmail.com
>> .
>>
> --
> Disclaimer:
> 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of
> the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;
>
> 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails
> sent through this mailing list..
>
>
> Search for old postings at:
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> 
> .
>


-- 
Nirmal Verma
State Consultant (Inclusive Education Policy and Practice)
Samagra  Shiksha,
State Project Office, Uttar Pradesh, Vidya Bhawan, Nishatganj Lucknow 226007

-- 
Disclaimer:
1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the 
person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;

2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent 
through this mailing list..


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Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

[Minar Singh]

implementation of appropreate technology such as screen readers,
speech to text convertors and Braille is the only sollution to stop
malpractice in exam. Every child should be taught subjects like Maths
and reasoning in special school. There are many special schools where
important subjects like Maths and science is excluded from syllabus
instead students from these schools are ask to take music as a subject
in  board exam. I'm not against learning Music but if we want to
progress in life then It is essential to learn subjects like Maths and
Science till class 10th. Initial struggle will bring permanent success
later in life.

On 8/15/22, Nirmal Verma  wrote:
> Dear All
> Indian companies getting exam contracts from the government are very rich
> and are capable of implementing any technology. Accessibility engineers and
> facilitators training are very small things, they can do it easily.
> Additionally the government should be forced to start using voice to text
> services for VI candidtes. All suggestions should be put to appropriate
> form.
> Those students who can use braille should have the option of audio
> recording and for objective exams could be made more accessible to remove
> the dependency on scribes.
> I hope this news item starts system churning and good solutions come out.
>
> regards
>
> Nirmal
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, 15 Aug 2022 at 09:15, Vaibhav Saraf 
> wrote:
>
>> I was having a discussion with Ajay Minocha over a call about the screen
>> reader system.
>>
>> The point he highlighted was that we have multiple screen readers, and
>> their respective settings. It may happen that our preferred screen reader
>> is not there, the settings cannot be changed, or any last minute
>> technical
>> glitch with the system, inaccessible platform, among others.
>>
>> While it sounds like the best solution on using one's own system, it
>> might
>> not be as easy as using screen readers on a totally alien system in an
>> exam
>> centre. A technical issue, few mins wasted, and the candidate will be
>> having a whole mental toll.
>>
>> PS - I am not discouraging or against the use of screen readers for
>> exams,
>> but bringing a point which is often not discussed. And the screen reader
>> grass might not be always green.
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 14 Aug 2022 at 22:38, Pranav Lal  wrote:
>>
>>> I would go for the computer option any day. It gives us control over
>>> what
>>> we write.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Disclaimer:
>>> 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of
>>> the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its
>>> veracity;
>>>
>>> 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the
>>> mails sent through this mailing list..
>>>
>>>
>>> Search for old postings at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/
>>> ---
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups
>>> "AccessIndia" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an
>>> email to accessindia+unsubscr...@accessindia.org.in.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/a/accessindia.org.in/d/msgid/accessindia/01d8b050%2424634f30%246d29ed90%24%40gmail.com
>>> .
>>>
>> --
>> Disclaimer:
>> 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of
>> the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its
>> veracity;
>>
>> 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the
>> mails
>> sent through this mailing list..
>>
>>
>> Search for old postings at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "AccessIndia" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to accessindia+unsubscr...@accessindia.org.in.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/a/accessindia.org.in/d/msgid/accessindia/CAAx3Jh3At_WUQ7R-RFM0t6uoZdiqiakcPruvomhSwEExRZA62w%40mail.gmail.com
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> --
> Nirmal Verma
> State Consultant (Inclusive Education Policy and Practice)
> Samagra  Shiksha,
> State Project Office, Uttar Pradesh, Vidya Bhawan, Nishatganj Lucknow
> 226007
>
> --
> Disclaimer:
> 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the
> person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;
>
> 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails
> sent through this mailing list..
>
>
> Search for old postings at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "AccessIndia" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emai

RE: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

[prashant.rv]

If the job for which blind person is applying requires use of computers then 
the blind candidate should be asked to use the computer to take  the 
competitive examination. 
For example, if it is bank probationary officer vacancy,  the blind candidate  
can be asked to use the computer for the recruitment exam. 
Blind person who cannot use the computer efficiently cannot be expected to 
perform bank officers job properly.

However, the onus lies on the recruitment agency for setting up accessible exam 
environment including thoroughly tested accessible digital question  paper and 
availability of assistive technologies e.g. screen reader, magnifier etc. 
demanded by the candidate. Candidates with physical disabilities may demand 
modified keyboards, mouse, voice dictation etc. 
 
In the field of education I think blind candidates should be given all options 
to take the examination  including the scribe. 
 
-Original Message-
From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in  On Behalf 
Of Pranav Lal
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2022 8:09 AM
To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
Subject: RE: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 
'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

I would go for the computer option any day. It gives us control over what we 
write.

-- 
Disclaimer:
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person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;

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through this mailing list..


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Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

[Akash Kakkar]

The solution to that problem is dead simple.

Schools, NGOS or other organizations which teach computing to visually 
challenged people include NVDA in their training/teaching curricular as 
a mandatory component.


And yes, this will improve many things fundamentally since people will 
have to get a good grip on screen readers which will be very useful for 
them in near future.


Not only this, Only deserving people will get the chance to prove themselves

On 8/15/2022 9:15 AM, Vaibhav Saraf wrote:
I was having a discussion with Ajay Minocha over a call about the 
screen reader system.


The point he highlighted was that we have multiple screen readers, and 
their respective settings. It may happen that our preferred screen 
reader is not there, the settings cannot be changed, or any last 
minute technical glitch with the system, inaccessible platform, among 
others.


While it sounds like the best solution on using one's own system, it 
might not be as easy as using screen readers on a totally alien system 
in an exam centre. A technical issue, few mins wasted, and the 
candidate will be having a whole mental toll.


PS - I am not discouraging or against the use of screen readers for 
exams, but bringing a point which is often not discussed. And the 
screen reader grass might not be always green.



On Sun, 14 Aug 2022 at 22:38, Pranav Lal  wrote:

I would go for the computer option any day. It gives us control
over what we write.

-- 
Disclaimer:

1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the
thinking of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates
itself to its veracity;

2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on
the mails sent through this mailing list..


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--
Disclaimer:
1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking 
of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its 
veracity;


2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the 
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Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

[Akash Kakkar]

Very true,

In fact, when I was trying to pursue IT (Computing) in my 11th standard, 
then school management directly told me that "you should take any other 
subject as we don't have enough resources to teach computing and 
programming".


And yes, that was a very huge organization and they had plenty of funds 
to arrange good teachers and resources.


Students were kept limited only to "MS word and MS Excel" there.

On 8/15/2022 10:48 AM, Minar Singh wrote:

implementation of appropreate technology such as screen readers,
speech to text convertors and Braille is the only sollution to stop
malpractice in exam. Every child should be taught subjects like Maths
and reasoning in special school. There are many special schools where
important subjects like Maths and science is excluded from syllabus
instead students from these schools are ask to take music as a subject
in  board exam. I'm not against learning Music but if we want to
progress in life then It is essential to learn subjects like Maths and
Science till class 10th. Initial struggle will bring permanent success
later in life.

On 8/15/22, Nirmal Verma  wrote:

Dear All
Indian companies getting exam contracts from the government are very rich
and are capable of implementing any technology. Accessibility engineers and
facilitators training are very small things, they can do it easily.
Additionally the government should be forced to start using voice to text
services for VI candidtes. All suggestions should be put to appropriate
form.
Those students who can use braille should have the option of audio
recording and for objective exams could be made more accessible to remove
the dependency on scribes.
I hope this news item starts system churning and good solutions come out.

regards

Nirmal




On Mon, 15 Aug 2022 at 09:15, Vaibhav Saraf 
wrote:


I was having a discussion with Ajay Minocha over a call about the screen
reader system.

The point he highlighted was that we have multiple screen readers, and
their respective settings. It may happen that our preferred screen reader
is not there, the settings cannot be changed, or any last minute
technical
glitch with the system, inaccessible platform, among others.

While it sounds like the best solution on using one's own system, it
might
not be as easy as using screen readers on a totally alien system in an
exam
centre. A technical issue, few mins wasted, and the candidate will be
having a whole mental toll.

PS - I am not discouraging or against the use of screen readers for
exams,
but bringing a point which is often not discussed. And the screen reader
grass might not be always green.


On Sun, 14 Aug 2022 at 22:38, Pranav Lal  wrote:


I would go for the computer option any day. It gives us control over
what
we write.

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--
Nirmal Verma
State Consultant (Inclusive Education Policy and Practice)
Samagra  Shiksha,
State Project Office, Uttar Pradesh, Vidya Bhawan, Nishatganj Lucknow
226007

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Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

[Kunal Mehta]

Point taken about the familiarity with assistive technology / screen readers.

But we do need to start somewhere and offering testing with NVDA is
something that can be done.

I might be a JAWS user, but if I know that I need to take an exam
using NVDA ahead of time, I can practice accordingly.

I know there will be a lot of issues to start with and hence this can
be implemented for a small number of candidates in a phased manner.

We can look at a longer horizon (perhaps even a decade) for a
full-scale implementation.

Thanks,
Kunal

On 8/15/22, Vaibhav Saraf  wrote:
> I was having a discussion with Ajay Minocha over a call about the screen
> reader system.
>
> The point he highlighted was that we have multiple screen readers, and
> their respective settings. It may happen that our preferred screen reader
> is not there, the settings cannot be changed, or any last minute technical
> glitch with the system, inaccessible platform, among others.
>
> While it sounds like the best solution on using one's own system, it might
> not be as easy as using screen readers on a totally alien system in an exam
> centre. A technical issue, few mins wasted, and the candidate will be
> having a whole mental toll.
>
> PS - I am not discouraging or against the use of screen readers for exams,
> but bringing a point which is often not discussed. And the screen reader
> grass might not be always green.
>
>
> On Sun, 14 Aug 2022 at 22:38, Pranav Lal  wrote:
>
>> I would go for the computer option any day. It gives us control over what
>> we write.
>>
>> --
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>> the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its
>> veracity;
>>
>> 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the
>> mails
>> sent through this mailing list..
>>
>>
>> Search for old postings at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/
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>> .
>>
>
> --
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> person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;
>
> 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails
> sent through this mailing list..
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RE: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

[Ved]

There are some pertinent problem while we advocate PC solutions to scribe 
issues.

First, many Visually  Impaired pass school exam through open schooling due to 
their age related issues. They do not have proper schooling. Many of them go to 
such institutions for their basic education which can hardly called schools.

Most of the schools (mostly private residential schools) in U. P. Bihar etc do 
not have enough computers and students do not learn basics of PC.

In short, only urban elites are able to learn computer basics at school levels. 
In such scenario, I think, it is not possible to provide computer solutions to 
those who do not know how to operate them.

 

 

From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in  On Behalf 
Of Akash Kakkar
Sent: 15 August 2022 12:22 PM
To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in; Vaibhav Saraf 
Subject: Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 
'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

 

The solution to that problem is dead simple.

Schools, NGOS or other organizations which teach computing to visually 
challenged people include NVDA in their training/teaching curricular as a 
mandatory component.

And yes, this will improve many things fundamentally since people will have to 
get a good grip on screen readers which will be very useful for them in near 
future.

Not only this, Only deserving people will get the chance to prove themselves

On 8/15/2022 9:15 AM, Vaibhav Saraf wrote:

I was having a discussion with Ajay Minocha over a call about the screen reader 
system.

 

The point he highlighted was that we have multiple screen readers, and their 
respective settings. It may happen that our preferred screen reader is not 
there, the settings cannot be changed, or any last minute technical glitch with 
the system, inaccessible platform, among others.

 

While it sounds like the best solution on using one's own system, it might not 
be as easy as using screen readers on a totally alien system in an exam centre. 
A technical issue, few mins wasted, and the candidate will be having a whole 
mental toll.

 

PS - I am not discouraging or against the use of screen readers for exams, but 
bringing a point which is often not discussed. And the screen reader grass 
might not be always green.

 

 

On Sun, 14 Aug 2022 at 22:38, Pranav Lal mailto:pranav@gmail.com> > wrote:

I would go for the computer option any day. It gives us control over what we 
write.

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Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

[Ketan Kothari]

Hi Friends,

Although the problems mentioned in the article are true to some
extent, the blind community is also not without blame.  Also, there
are some glaring inconsistencies in the news item and I wonder why
this coaching institute is not reported to police?  I would have been
happy if there were by-line give  in the article.

In most cases, VI people don't wish to read and that is a fact which
we must accept.  That may be true for even the sighted folks but in
our case, the options of gaining knowledge are fewer.

For most exams there is a lot of material avaiable but one needs to
search carefully.

Best,
Ketan

On 14/08/2022, Minar Singh  wrote:
> From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe
> Service' Turning Into 'Business'?
> New Delhi, India
> Scribes charge from Rs 2,000 to rs 5 lakh for exam (Representational Image)
> Scribes charge from Rs 2,000 to rs 5 lakh for exam (Representational Image)
> Lack of scribes for candidates with visual impairment has led to a
> rampant illegal ‘scribe business’ across the country, activists demand
> national scribe banks.
> Help offered to visually impaired students in form of scribes is
> turning into a business, where on one hand deserving students find it
> difficult to get a scribe, on the other hand, many ‘coaching
> institutes’ offer scribes as ‘proxy’ candidates to solve papers on
> behalf of students in exchange for lakhs of rupees. Depending on the
> exams, several visually impaired candidates have reportedly been asked
> anywhere from Rs 1 lakh to 5 lakh from scribes.
> The availability of scribes in exchange for a large amount of money
> has made seeking payments in return for helping in exams an unsaid
> norm. This puts candidates, especially those from low-income
> backgrounds at a disadvantage.
> In 2021, a 31-year-old person with visual impairment, Satvir Jogi, had
> to miss his exam as he failed to find a scribe despite multiple
> attempts. For Jogi, who has been applying for several government exams
> in the last few years, arranging a scribe has always been a challenge.
> “Due to a paucity of reading material for visually impaired candidates
> — online and in physical form — even the preparation for an exam is
> more difficult when compared to visually-abled candidates. To top it
> off, we have the biggest challenge of finding scribes. How are these
> exams fair and equal for us?” says Jogi.
> He adds, “I have given from Rs 1,000 to Rs 2,000 on multiple occasions
> to scribes to write my paper. If a visually impaired candidate is
> lucky, then they sometimes get a volunteer scribe on time, otherwise,
> scribes demand money as per their wish for appearing for exams.”
> SCRIBES ALSO BEING USED AS PROXY CANDIDATES
> Lack of resources and limited vacancies for the visually impaired has
> made many take the illegal route as well. SK Singh, a rights activist
> for people with visual impairment and secretary of the National
> Association for the Blind, claimed that the scribe business is an open
> secret now. It stems from a lack of scribe resources and other
> challenges, including not enough material to prepare for exams and
> fewer job vacancies for people with visual impairment.
> They demand anywhere from Rs 2,000 to just appear for the exam to Rs 5
> lakh to clear it. With the demand for more money, scribes also give
> services to prepare on the behalf of the candidate and appear for the
> exam, alleged SK Singh, a rights activist for people with visual
> impairment and secretary of the National Association for the Blind.
> “Unemployment rates are at an all-time high and everyone wants to
> secure a job. Several scribes have found this opportunity to make
> money out of it. They demand anywhere from Rs 2,000 to just appear for
> the exam to Rs 5 lakh to clear it. With the demand for more money,
> scribes also give services to prepare on the behalf of the candidate
> and appear for the exam.”
> ‘WITH OUR SCRIBES DON’T WORRY ABOUT PASSING EXAM’
> To get to know some of the ‘proxy scribes’, News18 tried to contact a
> few of them. One such person, who runs a coaching center in Mumbai,
> told News18.com, “We have an academy. You only have to give us the
> syllabus and make us meet the candidate. We are quite experienced at
> it, so you don’t have to worry about passing the exam.”
> He said, from teachers to students his academy has scribes candidates
> of all ages and for various exams.
> Speaking about the fee charged for being the scribe, he said it
> depends on the exam. “While the fee is less for the non-technical
> exams, the fee will be more for technical exams. But don’t worry about
> the fee, we have an installment system also. A candidate can pay even
> after they get a job,” he said.
> ‘NO COMPLAINTS RECEIVED OF SCRIBE BUSINESS’
> The authorities, however, claim to not be aware of any ‘scribe
> business’ going on in exams.
> When News18 contacted the Department of Empowerment of Persons with
> Disabilities, which is 

Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

[Sandesh HR]

Hi friends,
Kethan said rightly.
Extremely sorry I request you all read long e-mail.
strengthen Fundamentally eligibility of candidate, selection and exam
written format processes well.

Present format also have issues like visualize and understand the
journey of listen and write the public sector exam questions. scribe
will read the question to vision impaired. Scribe takes one or two
minute To read the instruction to screen reader users.
Followed listener will listen give the answer one one or two minute.
That means vision impaired completes one instruction almost 3 to 4 minutes.
Out of 80 minutes if vision impaired follow he or she able to not more
than 20 to 25 instructions.
My view is strengthen the system.
Make the exam screens accessible and user friendly (compatible with
keyboard and low vision friendly)with screen reader
If person has use digital device to write the exam on their own
Insite is person with vision impaired join banking and other public
sector jobs without knowing computer spelling and mobility knowledge.
Present government system is some of vision impaired join the
government jobs without require knowledge and skills. Therefore public
sector changing their perception about vision impaired hiring. More
towards functional low vision.
After candidate's hiring organization approachs subject mater experts
to spend exstra money to train the vision impaired candidates.
 Therefore bank put the pressure on facilitators teach all vision
impaired employees in less amount of 100 hours.
Financial burden government sectors and corporate sectors as well.
Learner feels Burdon and pressure to learn from typing to internet,
My view is need to emphasize our community before taking the exams
improve computer, spelling, English mobility efficiency and process
discipline.
Exam duration has to increase on reality wise.
Example: screen reader user has to attend the 100 questions in 80 minutes.
Screen reader user has to answer less than almost 30 to 40 seconds.
He or she has to understand the layout of window, followed by
comprehend the screen reader accent, need to decide efficiently use
keyboard commands to use to quickly complete the exam.
Comprehend the questions, he or she has to listen screen reader key
command twice or trice less than 30 seconds.
If screen reader user taking 90 seconds to solve one question, that
means before apply government exams need to ask our self am I
efficient?
If any person feels need to improve should take action to become
excellent on computer, English, competitive exams.
Lot of work involves back ground all the coaching center syllabus has to change.
Need to do the capacity building the coaching center faculties teach
reasoning, aptitude and English.
One more glitch will begin again scribe banks as well if we recommends.

Example: few states very difficult get scribe who is good at reading
english and Hindi.
Since government attend the exam in Hindi still scribes unable to read
English properly.


My view is all stake holders together work make our community good in
society and solve the exam
Let us do retrospection rather than blame the scribes.
Action VS reaction.

I have felt to share my incite and I am not against views .

On 8/16/22, Ketan Kothari  wrote:
> Hi Friends,
>
> Although the problems mentioned in the article are true to some
> extent, the blind community is also not without blame.  Also, there
> are some glaring inconsistencies in the news item and I wonder why
> this coaching institute is not reported to police?  I would have been
> happy if there were by-line give  in the article.
>
> In most cases, VI people don't wish to read and that is a fact which
> we must accept.  That may be true for even the sighted folks but in
> our case, the options of gaining knowledge are fewer.
>
> For most exams there is a lot of material avaiable but one needs to
> search carefully.
>
> Best,
> Ketan
>
> On 14/08/2022, Minar Singh  wrote:
>> From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe
>> Service' Turning Into 'Business'?
>> New Delhi, India
>> Scribes charge from Rs 2,000 to rs 5 lakh for exam (Representational
>> Image)
>> Scribes charge from Rs 2,000 to rs 5 lakh for exam (Representational
>> Image)
>> Lack of scribes for candidates with visual impairment has led to a
>> rampant illegal ‘scribe business’ across the country, activists demand
>> national scribe banks.
>> Help offered to visually impaired students in form of scribes is
>> turning into a business, where on one hand deserving students find it
>> difficult to get a scribe, on the other hand, many ‘coaching
>> institutes’ offer scribes as ‘proxy’ candidates to solve papers on
>> behalf of students in exchange for lakhs of rupees. Depending on the
>> exams, several visually impaired candidates have reportedly been asked
>> anywhere from Rs 1 lakh to 5 lakh from scribes.
>> The availability of scribes in exchange for a large amount of money
>> has made seeking payments in return for helping

Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

[Pinkesh Tailor]

Firstly the examination must be made visually impaired friendly. We
are just been accommodated for examination which are meant for sighted
people. Just giving some extra time, exemption from tables and
graphical questions etc is not going to make any sense. And the
fundamental issues remains unanswered, so as to how the special
schools can trained visually impaired on logic, math which do not
include visual graph or on tactile based questions at the primary and
secondary schooling age. Some or many of us may be fortunate enough to
have inclusive education, or having a good family status along with
support system. What about the unfortunates, should they die because
of this? Until these persisting issues in relation to the education
system for visually impaired do not get resolved, I suggest that
organizations must frame interview based verbal discussion, such as
testing the candidates on various parameters such as psychometric,
reasoning, general affairs, basics of computing with screan readerrs,
English/Hindi  reading and writing skill, mathematical ability etc.
Despite of all the efforts put on by our community for reservation in
employment, the companies are still lagging in achieving full Vacancy.
This is some where a result of disguised discrimination in the public
sector organizations, and even in general the big private sector
employers are willing to recruit only those visually impaired who have
spent a lots of money on education / higher education. So who bothers
about the unfortunates and economically backward blind candidates?

On 8/16/22, Sandesh HR  wrote:
> Hi friends,
> Kethan said rightly.
> Extremely sorry I request you all read long e-mail.
> strengthen Fundamentally eligibility of candidate, selection and exam
> written format processes well.
>
> Present format also have issues like visualize and understand the
> journey of listen and write the public sector exam questions. scribe
> will read the question to vision impaired. Scribe takes one or two
> minute To read the instruction to screen reader users.
> Followed listener will listen give the answer one one or two minute.
> That means vision impaired completes one instruction almost 3 to 4 minutes.
> Out of 80 minutes if vision impaired follow he or she able to not more
> than 20 to 25 instructions.
> My view is strengthen the system.
> Make the exam screens accessible and user friendly (compatible with
> keyboard and low vision friendly)with screen reader
> If person has use digital device to write the exam on their own
> Insite is person with vision impaired join banking and other public
> sector jobs without knowing computer spelling and mobility knowledge.
> Present government system is some of vision impaired join the
> government jobs without require knowledge and skills. Therefore public
> sector changing their perception about vision impaired hiring. More
> towards functional low vision.
> After candidate's hiring organization approachs subject mater experts
> to spend exstra money to train the vision impaired candidates.
>  Therefore bank put the pressure on facilitators teach all vision
> impaired employees in less amount of 100 hours.
> Financial burden government sectors and corporate sectors as well.
> Learner feels Burdon and pressure to learn from typing to internet,
> My view is need to emphasize our community before taking the exams
> improve computer, spelling, English mobility efficiency and process
> discipline.
> Exam duration has to increase on reality wise.
> Example: screen reader user has to attend the 100 questions in 80 minutes.
> Screen reader user has to answer less than almost 30 to 40 seconds.
> He or she has to understand the layout of window, followed by
> comprehend the screen reader accent, need to decide efficiently use
> keyboard commands to use to quickly complete the exam.
> Comprehend the questions, he or she has to listen screen reader key
> command twice or trice less than 30 seconds.
> If screen reader user taking 90 seconds to solve one question, that
> means before apply government exams need to ask our self am I
> efficient?
> If any person feels need to improve should take action to become
> excellent on computer, English, competitive exams.
> Lot of work involves back ground all the coaching center syllabus has to
> change.
> Need to do the capacity building the coaching center faculties teach
> reasoning, aptitude and English.
> One more glitch will begin again scribe banks as well if we recommends.
>
> Example: few states very difficult get scribe who is good at reading
> english and Hindi.
> Since government attend the exam in Hindi still scribes unable to read
> English properly.
>
>
> My view is all stake holders together work make our community good in
> society and solve the exam
> Let us do retrospection rather than blame the scribes.
> Action VS reaction.
>
> I have felt to share my incite and I am not against views .
>
> On 8/16/22, Ketan Kothari  wrote:
>> Hi Friends,
>>
>> Alt

Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

[Satguru Rathi]

Well said! There are schools which teach Maths upto class 8th only and 
untill recently, few counted schools tought it upto 10th. How one 
expects from a blind candidate who has studied Maths till class 8th and 
was never even told in school about something called "Reasoning"! How 
would he solve such questions? Even if some fortunate one gets enrolled 
in some coatching, will he be able to understand all those concepts at 
par with his sighted pears? We must first focus on strengthning our 
education system.



Best.

On 8/16/2022 7:31 PM, Pinkesh Tailor wrote:

Firstly the examination must be made visually impaired friendly. We
are just been accommodated for examination which are meant for sighted
people. Just giving some extra time, exemption from tables and
graphical questions etc is not going to make any sense. And the
fundamental issues remains unanswered, so as to how the special
schools can trained visually impaired on logic, math which do not
include visual graph or on tactile based questions at the primary and
secondary schooling age. Some or many of us may be fortunate enough to
have inclusive education, or having a good family status along with
support system. What about the unfortunates, should they die because
of this? Until these persisting issues in relation to the education
system for visually impaired do not get resolved, I suggest that
organizations must frame interview based verbal discussion, such as
testing the candidates on various parameters such as psychometric,
reasoning, general affairs, basics of computing with screan readerrs,
English/Hindi  reading and writing skill, mathematical ability etc.
Despite of all the efforts put on by our community for reservation in
employment, the companies are still lagging in achieving full Vacancy.
This is some where a result of disguised discrimination in the public
sector organizations, and even in general the big private sector
employers are willing to recruit only those visually impaired who have
spent a lots of money on education / higher education. So who bothers
about the unfortunates and economically backward blind candidates?

On 8/16/22, Sandesh HR  wrote:

Hi friends,
Kethan said rightly.
Extremely sorry I request you all read long e-mail.
strengthen Fundamentally eligibility of candidate, selection and exam
written format processes well.

Present format also have issues like visualize and understand the
journey of listen and write the public sector exam questions. scribe
will read the question to vision impaired. Scribe takes one or two
minute To read the instruction to screen reader users.
Followed listener will listen give the answer one one or two minute.
That means vision impaired completes one instruction almost 3 to 4 minutes.
Out of 80 minutes if vision impaired follow he or she able to not more
than 20 to 25 instructions.
My view is strengthen the system.
Make the exam screens accessible and user friendly (compatible with
keyboard and low vision friendly)with screen reader
If person has use digital device to write the exam on their own
Insite is person with vision impaired join banking and other public
sector jobs without knowing computer spelling and mobility knowledge.
Present government system is some of vision impaired join the
government jobs without require knowledge and skills. Therefore public
sector changing their perception about vision impaired hiring. More
towards functional low vision.
After candidate's hiring organization approachs subject mater experts
to spend exstra money to train the vision impaired candidates.
  Therefore bank put the pressure on facilitators teach all vision
impaired employees in less amount of 100 hours.
Financial burden government sectors and corporate sectors as well.
Learner feels Burdon and pressure to learn from typing to internet,
My view is need to emphasize our community before taking the exams
improve computer, spelling, English mobility efficiency and process
discipline.
Exam duration has to increase on reality wise.
Example: screen reader user has to attend the 100 questions in 80 minutes.
Screen reader user has to answer less than almost 30 to 40 seconds.
He or she has to understand the layout of window, followed by
comprehend the screen reader accent, need to decide efficiently use
keyboard commands to use to quickly complete the exam.
Comprehend the questions, he or she has to listen screen reader key
command twice or trice less than 30 seconds.
If screen reader user taking 90 seconds to solve one question, that
means before apply government exams need to ask our self am I
efficient?
If any person feels need to improve should take action to become
excellent on computer, English, competitive exams.
Lot of work involves back ground all the coaching center syllabus has to
change.
Need to do the capacity building the coaching center faculties teach
reasoning, aptitude and English.
One more glitch will begin again scribe banks as well if we recommends.

Example: few states very 

RE: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

['PAUL MUDDHA' via AccessIndia]

For this reason, some interested NGOS and volunteer groups must take initiative 
to teach maths and reasoning to candidates taking up exams.


DR. PAUL MUDDHA
DIVISIONAL MANAGER
Marketing & Public Relations Wing
Head Office Annex ground Floor
2nd Cross, Gandhi Nagar Bangalore – 560009
PH NO :080 22207594


From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in  On Behalf 
Of Satguru Rathi
Sent: 17 August 2022 11:08
To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
Subject: Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 
'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

CAUTION: This email is originated from outside Canara Bank. Do not click any 
links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know that the 
content is safe.

Well said! There are schools which teach Maths upto class 8th only and untill 
recently, few counted schools tought it upto 10th. How one expects from a blind 
candidate who has studied Maths till class 8th and was never even told in 
school about something called "Reasoning"! How would he solve such questions? 
Even if some fortunate one gets enrolled in some coatching, will he be able to 
understand all those concepts at par with his sighted pears? We must first 
focus on strengthning our education system.



Best.
On 8/16/2022 7:31 PM, Pinkesh Tailor wrote:

Firstly the examination must be made visually impaired friendly. We

are just been accommodated for examination which are meant for sighted

people. Just giving some extra time, exemption from tables and

graphical questions etc is not going to make any sense. And the

fundamental issues remains unanswered, so as to how the special

schools can trained visually impaired on logic, math which do not

include visual graph or on tactile based questions at the primary and

secondary schooling age. Some or many of us may be fortunate enough to

have inclusive education, or having a good family status along with

support system. What about the unfortunates, should they die because

of this? Until these persisting issues in relation to the education

system for visually impaired do not get resolved, I suggest that

organizations must frame interview based verbal discussion, such as

testing the candidates on various parameters such as psychometric,

reasoning, general affairs, basics of computing with screan readerrs,

English/Hindi  reading and writing skill, mathematical ability etc.

Despite of all the efforts put on by our community for reservation in

employment, the companies are still lagging in achieving full Vacancy.

This is some where a result of disguised discrimination in the public

sector organizations, and even in general the big private sector

employers are willing to recruit only those visually impaired who have

spent a lots of money on education / higher education. So who bothers

about the unfortunates and economically backward blind candidates?



On 8/16/22, Sandesh HR <mailto:rh.sand...@gmail.com> 
wrote:

Hi friends,

Kethan said rightly.

Extremely sorry I request you all read long e-mail.

strengthen Fundamentally eligibility of candidate, selection and exam

written format processes well.



Present format also have issues like visualize and understand the

journey of listen and write the public sector exam questions. scribe

will read the question to vision impaired. Scribe takes one or two

minute To read the instruction to screen reader users.

Followed listener will listen give the answer one one or two minute.

That means vision impaired completes one instruction almost 3 to 4 minutes.

Out of 80 minutes if vision impaired follow he or she able to not more

than 20 to 25 instructions.

My view is strengthen the system.

Make the exam screens accessible and user friendly (compatible with

keyboard and low vision friendly)with screen reader

If person has use digital device to write the exam on their own

Insite is person with vision impaired join banking and other public

sector jobs without knowing computer spelling and mobility knowledge.

Present government system is some of vision impaired join the

government jobs without require knowledge and skills. Therefore public

sector changing their perception about vision impaired hiring. More

towards functional low vision.

After candidate's hiring organization approachs subject mater experts

to spend exstra money to train the vision impaired candidates.

 Therefore bank put the pressure on facilitators teach all vision

impaired employees in less amount of 100 hours.

Financial burden government sectors and corporate sectors as well.

Learner feels Burdon and pressure to learn from typing to internet,

My view is need to emphasize our community before taking the exams

improve computer, spelling, English mobility efficiency and process

discipline.

Exam duration has to increase on reality wise.

Example: screen reader user has to attend the 100 questions in 80 minutes.

Screen reader user has to answer less th

RE: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

[George Abraham]

No! It is time schools and the Education departments take on the role. The 
system has to buy into the belief that blind and visually impaired persons have 
to learn STEM and they have to develop pedagogies to do so.

 

NGOs need to advocate for it.

 

Further it is time schools and NGOs who run schools hear and understand our PMs 
vision of Digital India and prepare to equip the blind youth to fit into the 
Digital World. Tools are available. It is also necessary for Govt. to invest in 
quality and meaningful education for the rural blind youth instead of touting a 
compromised SSA programme just to show numbers.

 

From: 'PAUL MUDDHA' via AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia@accessindia.org.in] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2022 12:37 PM
To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
Subject: RE: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 
'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

 

For this reason, some interested NGOS and volunteer groups must take initiative 
to teach maths and reasoning to candidates taking up exams.

 

 

DR. PAUL MUDDHA

DIVISIONAL MANAGER

Marketing & Public Relations Wing

Head Office Annex ground Floor

2nd Cross, Gandhi Nagar Bangalore – 560009

PH NO :080 22207594

 

 

From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in  On Behalf 
Of Satguru Rathi
Sent: 17 August 2022 11:08
To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
Subject: Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 
'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

 

CAUTION: This email is originated from outside Canara Bank. Do not click any 
links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know that the 
content is safe. 

Well said! There are schools which teach Maths upto class 8th only and untill 
recently, few counted schools tought it upto 10th. How one expects from a blind 
candidate who has studied Maths till class 8th and was never even told in 
school about something called "Reasoning"! How would he solve such questions? 
Even if some fortunate one gets enrolled in some coatching, will he be able to 
understand all those concepts at par with his sighted pears? We must first 
focus on strengthning our education system.

 

Best.

On 8/16/2022 7:31 PM, Pinkesh Tailor wrote:

Firstly the examination must be made visually impaired friendly. We
are just been accommodated for examination which are meant for sighted
people. Just giving some extra time, exemption from tables and
graphical questions etc is not going to make any sense. And the
fundamental issues remains unanswered, so as to how the special
schools can trained visually impaired on logic, math which do not
include visual graph or on tactile based questions at the primary and
secondary schooling age. Some or many of us may be fortunate enough to
have inclusive education, or having a good family status along with
support system. What about the unfortunates, should they die because
of this? Until these persisting issues in relation to the education
system for visually impaired do not get resolved, I suggest that
organizations must frame interview based verbal discussion, such as
testing the candidates on various parameters such as psychometric,
reasoning, general affairs, basics of computing with screan readerrs,
English/Hindi  reading and writing skill, mathematical ability etc.
Despite of all the efforts put on by our community for reservation in
employment, the companies are still lagging in achieving full Vacancy.
This is some where a result of disguised discrimination in the public
sector organizations, and even in general the big private sector
employers are willing to recruit only those visually impaired who have
spent a lots of money on education / higher education. So who bothers
about the unfortunates and economically backward blind candidates?
 
On 8/16/22, Sandesh HR  <mailto:rh.sand...@gmail.com>  
wrote:

Hi friends,
Kethan said rightly.
Extremely sorry I request you all read long e-mail.
strengthen Fundamentally eligibility of candidate, selection and exam
written format processes well.
 
Present format also have issues like visualize and understand the
journey of listen and write the public sector exam questions. scribe
will read the question to vision impaired. Scribe takes one or two
minute To read the instruction to screen reader users.
Followed listener will listen give the answer one one or two minute.
That means vision impaired completes one instruction almost 3 to 4 minutes.
Out of 80 minutes if vision impaired follow he or she able to not more
than 20 to 25 instructions.
My view is strengthen the system.
Make the exam screens accessible and user friendly (compatible with
keyboard and low vision friendly)with screen reader
If person has use digital device to write the exam on their own
Insite is person with vision impaired join banking and other public
sector jobs without knowing computer spelling and mobility knowledge.
Present government syst

Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

[Tanmay Srivastava]

Hi all,

Extremely sorry for such a long mail.

Earlier, I was not thinking to give my opinion on this issue but, satguru
ji's mail compelled me to talk about it.

There are a few things which needs to be addressed.

Firstly, why there is no separate ministry for people with disabilities?

In other words, why MSJE is running department of empowerment of persons
with disabilities?

It is quite understandable that, when a ministry has so many departments
then they set work on a priority basis.

Secondly, why MSJE deals with special schools, I mean if education ministry
takes charge of special schools then they can do a lot to enhance the
entire special education system.

Last but not the least, satguru ji I agree with you 100% but, same thing
goes with computer as well.

I remember, when we were in 11th standard, we had to give an undertaking to
pursue computer as an additional subject.

According to which, school will not be liable in case of any mishappening.

School can afford well experienced computer teachers but, they left us with
a computer instructer who did not have any experience to teach computer in
11th and 12th standard to a totally blind person, however it is important
to mention that, she tried her best to get the result.

On Wed, 17 Aug, 2022, 11:08 am Satguru Rathi, 
wrote:

> Well said! There are schools which teach Maths upto class 8th only and
> untill recently, few counted schools tought it upto 10th. How one expects
> from a blind candidate who has studied Maths till class 8th and was never
> even told in school about something called "Reasoning"! How would he solve
> such questions? Even if some fortunate one gets enrolled in some coatching,
> will he be able to understand all those concepts at par with his sighted
> pears? We must first focus on strengthning our education system.
>
>
> Best.
> On 8/16/2022 7:31 PM, Pinkesh Tailor wrote:
>
> Firstly the examination must be made visually impaired friendly. We
> are just been accommodated for examination which are meant for sighted
> people. Just giving some extra time, exemption from tables and
> graphical questions etc is not going to make any sense. And the
> fundamental issues remains unanswered, so as to how the special
> schools can trained visually impaired on logic, math which do not
> include visual graph or on tactile based questions at the primary and
> secondary schooling age. Some or many of us may be fortunate enough to
> have inclusive education, or having a good family status along with
> support system. What about the unfortunates, should they die because
> of this? Until these persisting issues in relation to the education
> system for visually impaired do not get resolved, I suggest that
> organizations must frame interview based verbal discussion, such as
> testing the candidates on various parameters such as psychometric,
> reasoning, general affairs, basics of computing with screan readerrs,
> English/Hindi  reading and writing skill, mathematical ability etc.
> Despite of all the efforts put on by our community for reservation in
> employment, the companies are still lagging in achieving full Vacancy.
> This is some where a result of disguised discrimination in the public
> sector organizations, and even in general the big private sector
> employers are willing to recruit only those visually impaired who have
> spent a lots of money on education / higher education. So who bothers
> about the unfortunates and economically backward blind candidates?
>
> On 8/16/22, Sandesh HR   wrote:
>
> Hi friends,
> Kethan said rightly.
> Extremely sorry I request you all read long e-mail.
> strengthen Fundamentally eligibility of candidate, selection and exam
> written format processes well.
>
> Present format also have issues like visualize and understand the
> journey of listen and write the public sector exam questions. scribe
> will read the question to vision impaired. Scribe takes one or two
> minute To read the instruction to screen reader users.
> Followed listener will listen give the answer one one or two minute.
> That means vision impaired completes one instruction almost 3 to 4 minutes.
> Out of 80 minutes if vision impaired follow he or she able to not more
> than 20 to 25 instructions.
> My view is strengthen the system.
> Make the exam screens accessible and user friendly (compatible with
> keyboard and low vision friendly)with screen reader
> If person has use digital device to write the exam on their own
> Insite is person with vision impaired join banking and other public
> sector jobs without knowing computer spelling and mobility knowledge.
> Present government system is some of vision impaired join the
> government jobs without require knowledge and skills. Therefore public
> sector changing their perception about vision impaired hiring. More
> towards functional low vision.
> After candidate's hiring organization approachs subject mater experts
> to spend exstra money to train the vision impaired candidates

Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

[Muhammad Mishbahul]

In my view, The only way forward is strict  Supervision through videography.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 17-Aug-2022, at 11:07 AM, Satguru Rathi  wrote:
> 
> 
> Well said! There are schools which teach Maths upto class 8th only and untill 
> recently, few counted schools tought it upto 10th. How one expects from a 
> blind candidate who has studied Maths till class 8th and was never even told 
> in school about something called "Reasoning"! How would he solve such 
> questions? Even if some fortunate one gets enrolled in some coatching, will 
> he be able to understand all those concepts at par with his sighted pears? We 
> must first focus on strengthning our education system.
> 
> 
> 
> Best.
> 
> On 8/16/2022 7:31 PM, Pinkesh Tailor wrote:
>> Firstly the examination must be made visually impaired friendly. We
>> are just been accommodated for examination which are meant for sighted
>> people. Just giving some extra time, exemption from tables and
>> graphical questions etc is not going to make any sense. And the
>> fundamental issues remains unanswered, so as to how the special
>> schools can trained visually impaired on logic, math which do not
>> include visual graph or on tactile based questions at the primary and
>> secondary schooling age. Some or many of us may be fortunate enough to
>> have inclusive education, or having a good family status along with
>> support system. What about the unfortunates, should they die because
>> of this? Until these persisting issues in relation to the education
>> system for visually impaired do not get resolved, I suggest that
>> organizations must frame interview based verbal discussion, such as
>> testing the candidates on various parameters such as psychometric,
>> reasoning, general affairs, basics of computing with screan readerrs,
>> English/Hindi  reading and writing skill, mathematical ability etc.
>> Despite of all the efforts put on by our community for reservation in
>> employment, the companies are still lagging in achieving full Vacancy.
>> This is some where a result of disguised discrimination in the public
>> sector organizations, and even in general the big private sector
>> employers are willing to recruit only those visually impaired who have
>> spent a lots of money on education / higher education. So who bothers
>> about the unfortunates and economically backward blind candidates?
>> 
>> On 8/16/22, Sandesh HR  wrote:
>>> Hi friends,
>>> Kethan said rightly.
>>> Extremely sorry I request you all read long e-mail.
>>> strengthen Fundamentally eligibility of candidate, selection and exam
>>> written format processes well.
>>> 
>>> Present format also have issues like visualize and understand the
>>> journey of listen and write the public sector exam questions. scribe
>>> will read the question to vision impaired. Scribe takes one or two
>>> minute To read the instruction to screen reader users.
>>> Followed listener will listen give the answer one one or two minute.
>>> That means vision impaired completes one instruction almost 3 to 4 minutes.
>>> Out of 80 minutes if vision impaired follow he or she able to not more
>>> than 20 to 25 instructions.
>>> My view is strengthen the system.
>>> Make the exam screens accessible and user friendly (compatible with
>>> keyboard and low vision friendly)with screen reader
>>> If person has use digital device to write the exam on their own
>>> Insite is person with vision impaired join banking and other public
>>> sector jobs without knowing computer spelling and mobility knowledge.
>>> Present government system is some of vision impaired join the
>>> government jobs without require knowledge and skills. Therefore public
>>> sector changing their perception about vision impaired hiring. More
>>> towards functional low vision.
>>> After candidate's hiring organization approachs subject mater experts
>>> to spend exstra money to train the vision impaired candidates.
>>>  Therefore bank put the pressure on facilitators teach all vision
>>> impaired employees in less amount of 100 hours.
>>> Financial burden government sectors and corporate sectors as well.
>>> Learner feels Burdon and pressure to learn from typing to internet,
>>> My view is need to emphasize our community before taking the exams
>>> improve computer, spelling, English mobility efficiency and process
>>> discipline.
>>> Exam duration has to increase on reality wise.
>>> Example: screen reader user has to attend the 100 questions in 80 minutes.
>>> Screen reader user has to answer less than almost 30 to 40 seconds.
>>> He or she has to understand the layout of window, followed by
>>> comprehend the screen reader accent, need to decide efficiently use
>>> keyboard commands to use to quickly complete the exam.
>>> Comprehend the questions, he or she has to listen screen reader key
>>> command twice or trice less than 30 seconds.
>>> If screen reader user taking 90 seconds to solve one question, that
>>> means before apply government exams need t

Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

[Amena Kanchwala]

Hi all,

It is a wonderful conversation going on. I will still support making the
examination software accessible with the screen readers, and enabling
visually impaired candidates appear in their exams independently. If this
happens, then the people who don’t know how to operate computers will start
learning computers in order to get the job. People will start learning
maths and reasoning. Training centres will also start teaching the same.
There will be competition between visually impaired candidates only.
Currently, no one wants to give their efforts, because they think that all
their efforts will go in vain if they have to compete with sighted scribes.
People like us have our own constraints. Even the well prepared VI
Candidate cannot compete with the well prepared sighted scribe. I have seen
the SBI exam cut off for VI candidates going higher than that of sighted
candidates. This is just because of highly paid scribes. And because of
this, even the genuine VI candidates stop preparing, and endup entering
into the vicious cycle of scribe business.

And yes, I feel that it is difficult to do strict invigilation at all the
places in the similar manner. Candidates and scribes can use the code words
to tell the correct answer. Also, at some places invigilators can be
polite. It depends on the person.

Giving the exams independently will give them confidence. They will start
giving the effort for the same, and can make themselves capable for the
applied position. Few months ago, I gave a US based online exam
independently, and trust me I feel good after clearing the same.

All of us  just need to change our mindset.



Thanks and regards,

Ame

On Wed, Aug 17, 2022 at 2:16 PM Tanmay Srivastava 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Extremely sorry for such a long mail.
>
> Earlier, I was not thinking to give my opinion on this issue but, satguru
> ji's mail compelled me to talk about it.
>
> There are a few things which needs to be addressed.
>
> Firstly, why there is no separate ministry for people with disabilities?
>
> In other words, why MSJE is running department of empowerment of persons
> with disabilities?
>
> It is quite understandable that, when a ministry has so many departments
> then they set work on a priority basis.
>
> Secondly, why MSJE deals with special schools, I mean if education
> ministry takes charge of special schools then they can do a lot to enhance
> the entire special education system.
>
> Last but not the least, satguru ji I agree with you 100% but, same thing
> goes with computer as well.
>
> I remember, when we were in 11th standard, we had to give an undertaking
> to pursue computer as an additional subject.
>
> According to which, school will not be liable in case of any mishappening.
>
> School can afford well experienced computer teachers but, they left us
> with a computer instructer who did not have any experience to teach
> computer in 11th and 12th standard to a totally blind person, however it is
> important to mention that, she tried her best to get the result.
>
> On Wed, 17 Aug, 2022, 11:08 am Satguru Rathi, 
> wrote:
>
>> Well said! There are schools which teach Maths upto class 8th only and
>> untill recently, few counted schools tought it upto 10th. How one expects
>> from a blind candidate who has studied Maths till class 8th and was never
>> even told in school about something called "Reasoning"! How would he solve
>> such questions? Even if some fortunate one gets enrolled in some coatching,
>> will he be able to understand all those concepts at par with his sighted
>> pears? We must first focus on strengthning our education system.
>>
>>
>> Best.
>> On 8/16/2022 7:31 PM, Pinkesh Tailor wrote:
>>
>> Firstly the examination must be made visually impaired friendly. We
>> are just been accommodated for examination which are meant for sighted
>> people. Just giving some extra time, exemption from tables and
>> graphical questions etc is not going to make any sense. And the
>> fundamental issues remains unanswered, so as to how the special
>> schools can trained visually impaired on logic, math which do not
>> include visual graph or on tactile based questions at the primary and
>> secondary schooling age. Some or many of us may be fortunate enough to
>> have inclusive education, or having a good family status along with
>> support system. What about the unfortunates, should they die because
>> of this? Until these persisting issues in relation to the education
>> system for visually impaired do not get resolved, I suggest that
>> organizations must frame interview based verbal discussion, such as
>> testing the candidates on various parameters such as psychometric,
>> reasoning, general affairs, basics of computing with screan readerrs,
>> English/Hindi  reading and writing skill, mathematical ability etc.
>> Despite of all the efforts put on by our community for reservation in
>> employment, the companies are still lagging in achieving full Vacancy.
>> This is some where a re

Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

[Satguru Rathi]

Hi,

Well, computers are the part of the whole system, but specific subjects 
have their own merrits. First, one can not learn computer without having 
basic English language skills. Despite the availability of the Hindi 
softwares, I see no specific push by the government to make it more 
usable. Even if one argues to learn it the Hindi way, most of the time 
he would find being end up useing "English software" for various tasks. 
We don't yet have a very reliable Hindi OCR available despite of various 
efforts. Projects come and go with much hipe from the government but end 
up dead most of the time. Now, how many English medium schools are there 
in India for VI? Perhaps 1 or 2. Are they sufficient? No! How could we 
few fortunates expect from everyone in the VI community to come on board 
Access India and join this debate? George sir is right! Time has come 
for the government and the NGOs to make the required changes in the 
education system decisively and swiftly.



Satguru.

On 8/17/2022 2:39 PM, Amena Kanchwala wrote:


Hi all,

It is a wonderful conversation going on. I will still support making 
the examination software accessible with the screen readers, and 
enabling visually impaired candidates appear in their exams 
independently. If this happens, then the people who don’t know how to 
operate computers will start learning computers in order to get the 
job. People will start learning maths and reasoning. Training centres 
will also start teaching the same. There will be competition between 
visually impaired candidates only. Currently, no one wants to give 
their efforts, because they think that all their efforts will go in 
vain if they have to compete with sighted scribes. People like us have 
our own constraints. Even the well prepared VI Candidate cannot 
compete with the well prepared sighted scribe. I have seen the SBI 
exam cut off for VI candidates going higher than that of sighted 
candidates. This is just because of highly paid scribes. And because 
of this, even the genuine VI candidates stop preparing, and 
endup entering into the vicious cycle of scribe business.


And yes, I feel that it is difficult to do strict invigilation at all 
the places in the similar manner. Candidates and scribes can use the 
code words to tell the correct answer. Also, at some places 
invigilators can be polite. It depends on the person.


Giving the exams independently will give them confidence. They will 
start giving the effort for the same, and can make themselves capable 
for the applied position. Few months ago, I gave a US based online 
exam independently, and trust me I feel good after clearing the same.


All of us  just need to change our mindset.

Thanks and regards,

Ame


On Wed, Aug 17, 2022 at 2:16 PM Tanmay Srivastava 
 wrote:


Hi all,

Extremely sorry for such a long mail.

Earlier, I was not thinking to give my opinion on this issue but,
satguru ji's mail compelled me to talk about it.

There are a few things which needs to be addressed.

Firstly, why there is no separate ministry for people with
disabilities?

In other words, why MSJE is running department of empowerment of
persons with disabilities?

It is quite understandable that, when a ministry has so many
departments then they set work on a priority basis.

Secondly, why MSJE deals with special schools, I mean if education
ministry takes charge of special schools then they can do a lot to
enhance the entire special education system.

Last but not the least, satguru ji I agree with you 100% but, same
thing goes with computer as well.

I remember, when we were in 11th standard, we had to give an
undertaking to pursue computer as an additional subject.

According to which, school will not be liable in case of any
mishappening.

School can afford well experienced computer teachers but, they
left us with a computer instructer who did not have any experience
to teach computer in 11th and 12th standard to a totally blind
person, however it is important to mention that, she tried her
best to get the result.


On Wed, 17 Aug, 2022, 11:08 am Satguru Rathi,
 wrote:

Well said! There are schools which teach Maths upto class 8th
only and untill recently, few counted schools tought it upto
10th. How one expects from a blind candidate who has studied
Maths till class 8th and was never even told in school about
something called "Reasoning"! How would he solve such
questions? Even if some fortunate one gets enrolled in some
coatching, will he be able to understand all those concepts at
par with his sighted pears? We must first focus on
strengthning our education system.


Best.

On 8/16/2022 7:31 PM, Pinkesh Tailor wrote:

Firstly the examination must be made visually impaired friendly. We
are just been accommodated for examination

Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

[anirudh rao]

in my view, the schools adopting the English as their medium and
teaching the science and the mathematics in their curriculum is the
way forward.
inclusive education should be pushed but, the question is that, are
the schools that teach the normals equipped to handle the visually
challenged?

On 8/17/22, Satguru Rathi  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Well, computers are the part of the whole system, but specific subjects
> have their own merrits. First, one can not learn computer without having
> basic English language skills. Despite the availability of the Hindi
> softwares, I see no specific push by the government to make it more
> usable. Even if one argues to learn it the Hindi way, most of the time
> he would find being end up useing "English software" for various tasks.
> We don't yet have a very reliable Hindi OCR available despite of various
> efforts. Projects come and go with much hipe from the government but end
> up dead most of the time. Now, how many English medium schools are there
> in India for VI? Perhaps 1 or 2. Are they sufficient? No! How could we
> few fortunates expect from everyone in the VI community to come on board
> Access India and join this debate? George sir is right! Time has come
> for the government and the NGOs to make the required changes in the
> education system decisively and swiftly.
>
>
> Satguru.
>
> On 8/17/2022 2:39 PM, Amena Kanchwala wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> It is a wonderful conversation going on. I will still support making
>> the examination software accessible with the screen readers, and
>> enabling visually impaired candidates appear in their exams
>> independently. If this happens, then the people who don’t know how to
>> operate computers will start learning computers in order to get the
>> job. People will start learning maths and reasoning. Training centres
>> will also start teaching the same. There will be competition between
>> visually impaired candidates only. Currently, no one wants to give
>> their efforts, because they think that all their efforts will go in
>> vain if they have to compete with sighted scribes. People like us have
>> our own constraints. Even the well prepared VI Candidate cannot
>> compete with the well prepared sighted scribe. I have seen the SBI
>> exam cut off for VI candidates going higher than that of sighted
>> candidates. This is just because of highly paid scribes. And because
>> of this, even the genuine VI candidates stop preparing, and
>> endup entering into the vicious cycle of scribe business.
>>
>> And yes, I feel that it is difficult to do strict invigilation at all
>> the places in the similar manner. Candidates and scribes can use the
>> code words to tell the correct answer. Also, at some places
>> invigilators can be polite. It depends on the person.
>>
>> Giving the exams independently will give them confidence. They will
>> start giving the effort for the same, and can make themselves capable
>> for the applied position. Few months ago, I gave a US based online
>> exam independently, and trust me I feel good after clearing the same.
>>
>> All of us  just need to change our mindset.
>>
>> Thanks and regards,
>>
>> Ame
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 17, 2022 at 2:16 PM Tanmay Srivastava
>>  wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Extremely sorry for such a long mail.
>>
>> Earlier, I was not thinking to give my opinion on this issue but,
>> satguru ji's mail compelled me to talk about it.
>>
>> There are a few things which needs to be addressed.
>>
>> Firstly, why there is no separate ministry for people with
>> disabilities?
>>
>> In other words, why MSJE is running department of empowerment of
>> persons with disabilities?
>>
>> It is quite understandable that, when a ministry has so many
>> departments then they set work on a priority basis.
>>
>> Secondly, why MSJE deals with special schools, I mean if education
>> ministry takes charge of special schools then they can do a lot to
>> enhance the entire special education system.
>>
>> Last but not the least, satguru ji I agree with you 100% but, same
>> thing goes with computer as well.
>>
>> I remember, when we were in 11th standard, we had to give an
>> undertaking to pursue computer as an additional subject.
>>
>> According to which, school will not be liable in case of any
>> mishappening.
>>
>> School can afford well experienced computer teachers but, they
>> left us with a computer instructer who did not have any experience
>> to teach computer in 11th and 12th standard to a totally blind
>> person, however it is important to mention that, she tried her
>> best to get the result.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 17 Aug, 2022, 11:08 am Satguru Rathi,
>>  wrote:
>>
>> Well said! There are schools which teach Maths upto class 8th
>> only and untill recently, few counted schools tought it upto
>> 10th. How one expects from a blind candidate who has studied
>> Maths

Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

[Minar Singh]

Whatever is the reason may be, Glorifying success accomplished through
malpractice by many VI individuals and organisations is going to end
soon. I came from poor family. My parents couldn’t afford to feed me 2
times meal. I was enrolled into Marathi medium school. Hard work has
no excuse and short cut. I believe authorities will take note of the
current trend and will take disciplinary  action against culprits.

On 8/17/22, anirudh rao  wrote:
> in my view, the schools adopting the English as their medium and
> teaching the science and the mathematics in their curriculum is the
> way forward.
> inclusive education should be pushed but, the question is that, are
> the schools that teach the normals equipped to handle the visually
> challenged?
>
> On 8/17/22, Satguru Rathi  wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Well, computers are the part of the whole system, but specific subjects
>> have their own merrits. First, one can not learn computer without having
>> basic English language skills. Despite the availability of the Hindi
>> softwares, I see no specific push by the government to make it more
>> usable. Even if one argues to learn it the Hindi way, most of the time
>> he would find being end up useing "English software" for various tasks.
>> We don't yet have a very reliable Hindi OCR available despite of various
>> efforts. Projects come and go with much hipe from the government but end
>> up dead most of the time. Now, how many English medium schools are there
>> in India for VI? Perhaps 1 or 2. Are they sufficient? No! How could we
>> few fortunates expect from everyone in the VI community to come on board
>> Access India and join this debate? George sir is right! Time has come
>> for the government and the NGOs to make the required changes in the
>> education system decisively and swiftly.
>>
>>
>> Satguru.
>>
>> On 8/17/2022 2:39 PM, Amena Kanchwala wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> It is a wonderful conversation going on. I will still support making
>>> the examination software accessible with the screen readers, and
>>> enabling visually impaired candidates appear in their exams
>>> independently. If this happens, then the people who don’t know how to
>>> operate computers will start learning computers in order to get the
>>> job. People will start learning maths and reasoning. Training centres
>>> will also start teaching the same. There will be competition between
>>> visually impaired candidates only. Currently, no one wants to give
>>> their efforts, because they think that all their efforts will go in
>>> vain if they have to compete with sighted scribes. People like us have
>>> our own constraints. Even the well prepared VI Candidate cannot
>>> compete with the well prepared sighted scribe. I have seen the SBI
>>> exam cut off for VI candidates going higher than that of sighted
>>> candidates. This is just because of highly paid scribes. And because
>>> of this, even the genuine VI candidates stop preparing, and
>>> endup entering into the vicious cycle of scribe business.
>>>
>>> And yes, I feel that it is difficult to do strict invigilation at all
>>> the places in the similar manner. Candidates and scribes can use the
>>> code words to tell the correct answer. Also, at some places
>>> invigilators can be polite. It depends on the person.
>>>
>>> Giving the exams independently will give them confidence. They will
>>> start giving the effort for the same, and can make themselves capable
>>> for the applied position. Few months ago, I gave a US based online
>>> exam independently, and trust me I feel good after clearing the same.
>>>
>>> All of us  just need to change our mindset.
>>>
>>> Thanks and regards,
>>>
>>> Ame
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 17, 2022 at 2:16 PM Tanmay Srivastava
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Extremely sorry for such a long mail.
>>>
>>> Earlier, I was not thinking to give my opinion on this issue but,
>>> satguru ji's mail compelled me to talk about it.
>>>
>>> There are a few things which needs to be addressed.
>>>
>>> Firstly, why there is no separate ministry for people with
>>> disabilities?
>>>
>>> In other words, why MSJE is running department of empowerment of
>>> persons with disabilities?
>>>
>>> It is quite understandable that, when a ministry has so many
>>> departments then they set work on a priority basis.
>>>
>>> Secondly, why MSJE deals with special schools, I mean if education
>>> ministry takes charge of special schools then they can do a lot to
>>> enhance the entire special education system.
>>>
>>> Last but not the least, satguru ji I agree with you 100% but, same
>>> thing goes with computer as well.
>>>
>>> I remember, when we were in 11th standard, we had to give an
>>> undertaking to pursue computer as an additional subject.
>>>
>>> According to which, school will not be liable in case of any
>>> mishappening.
>>>
>>> School can afford well experienced computer teachers but, the

RE: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

[hyder.sahyog]

HI Sir,

 

Houw ever you’re of NGO

 

Whi not Able to Take Initiate

 

From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in  On Behalf 
Of George Abraham
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2022 1:47 PM
To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
Subject: RE: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 
'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

 

No! It is time schools and the Education departments take on the role. The 
system has to buy into the belief that blind and visually impaired persons have 
to learn STEM and they have to develop pedagogies to do so.

 

NGOs need to advocate for it.

 

Further it is time schools and NGOs who run schools hear and understand our PMs 
vision of Digital India and prepare to equip the blind youth to fit into the 
Digital World. Tools are available. It is also necessary for Govt. to invest in 
quality and meaningful education for the rural blind youth instead of touting a 
compromised SSA programme just to show numbers.

 

 

From: 'PAUL MUDDHA' via AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia@accessindia.org.in] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2022 12:37 PM
To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in <mailto:accessindia@accessindia.org.in> 
Subject: RE: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 
'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

 

For this reason, some interested NGOS and volunteer groups must take initiative 
to teach maths and reasoning to candidates taking up exams.

 

 

DR. PAUL MUDDHA

DIVISIONAL MANAGER

Marketing & Public Relations Wing

Head Office Annex ground Floor

2nd Cross, Gandhi Nagar Bangalore – 560009

PH NO :080 22207594

 

 

From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in <mailto:accessindia@accessindia.org.in>  
mailto:accessindia@accessindia.org.in> > On 
Behalf Of Satguru Rathi
Sent: 17 August 2022 11:08
To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in <mailto:accessindia@accessindia.org.in> 
Subject: Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 
'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

 

CAUTION: This email is originated from outside Canara Bank. Do not click any 
links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know that the 
content is safe. 

Well said! There are schools which teach Maths upto class 8th only and untill 
recently, few counted schools tought it upto 10th. How one expects from a blind 
candidate who has studied Maths till class 8th and was never even told in 
school about something called "Reasoning"! How would he solve such questions? 
Even if some fortunate one gets enrolled in some coatching, will he be able to 
understand all those concepts at par with his sighted pears? We must first 
focus on strengthning our education system.

 

Best.

On 8/16/2022 7:31 PM, Pinkesh Tailor wrote:

Firstly the examination must be made visually impaired friendly. We
are just been accommodated for examination which are meant for sighted
people. Just giving some extra time, exemption from tables and
graphical questions etc is not going to make any sense. And the
fundamental issues remains unanswered, so as to how the special
schools can trained visually impaired on logic, math which do not
include visual graph or on tactile based questions at the primary and
secondary schooling age. Some or many of us may be fortunate enough to
have inclusive education, or having a good family status along with
support system. What about the unfortunates, should they die because
of this? Until these persisting issues in relation to the education
system for visually impaired do not get resolved, I suggest that
organizations must frame interview based verbal discussion, such as
testing the candidates on various parameters such as psychometric,
reasoning, general affairs, basics of computing with screan readerrs,
English/Hindi  reading and writing skill, mathematical ability etc.
Despite of all the efforts put on by our community for reservation in
employment, the companies are still lagging in achieving full Vacancy.
This is some where a result of disguised discrimination in the public
sector organizations, and even in general the big private sector
employers are willing to recruit only those visually impaired who have
spent a lots of money on education / higher education. So who bothers
about the unfortunates and economically backward blind candidates?
 
On 8/16/22, Sandesh HR  <mailto:rh.sand...@gmail.com>  
wrote:

Hi friends,
Kethan said rightly.
Extremely sorry I request you all read long e-mail.
strengthen Fundamentally eligibility of candidate, selection and exam
written format processes well.
 
Present format also have issues like visualize and understand the
journey of listen and write the public sector exam questions. scribe
will read the question to vision impaired. Scribe takes one or two
minute To read the instruction to screen reader users.
Followed listener will listen give the answer one one or two minute.
That mea

Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

[Aziz Minat]

Hi there, an interesting thread.

Actually I very strongly believe that the exam conducting bodies should
make the examination accessible in a way through which visually impaired
candidates can give the exams on their own with the help of screen readers.
As far as the mathematical and reasoning part is concerned, I think the
special schools should quit their apathy towards maths and teach the
students maths post 8th standard as well. Unfortunately because of the
competitions of scribe those who are genuine candidates are left behind for
no fault of theirs.
Especially when you are applying for a bank job, and if we give an argument
that a or b or c cannot operate computer then that person is not the right
person to get this job itself considering nowadays banking is shifting
towards digitisation.
Institutions, non government organisations and advocacy groups should
ensure that visually challenged students are getting the proper training
during the school itself and even during their preparation for competitive
exams and then only we will be able to overcome the competition of scribes
and can focus on the competition between the genuine candidates.

On Thu, 18 Aug 2022, 08:48 ,  wrote:

> HI Sir,
>
>
>
> Houw ever you’re of NGO
>
>
>
> Whi not Able to Take Initiate
>
>
>
> *From:* accessindia@accessindia.org.in  *On
> Behalf Of *George Abraham
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 17, 2022 1:47 PM
> *To:* accessindia@accessindia.org.in
> *Subject:* RE: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is
> Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?
>
>
>
> No! It is time schools and the Education departments take on the role. The
> system has to buy into the belief that blind and visually impaired persons
> have to learn STEM and they have to develop pedagogies to do so.
>
>
>
> NGOs need to advocate for it.
>
>
>
> Further it is time schools and NGOs who run schools hear and understand
> our PMs vision of Digital India and prepare to equip the blind youth to fit
> into the Digital World. Tools are available. It is also necessary for Govt.
> to invest in quality and meaningful education for the rural blind youth
> instead of touting a compromised SSA programme just to show numbers.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* 'PAUL MUDDHA' via AccessIndia [
> mailto:accessindia@accessindia.org.in ]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 17, 2022 12:37 PM
> *To:* accessindia@accessindia.org.in
> *Subject:* RE: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is
> Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?
>
>
>
> For this reason, some interested NGOS and volunteer groups must take
> initiative to teach maths and reasoning to candidates taking up exams.
>
>
>
>
>
> DR. PAUL MUDDHA
>
> DIVISIONAL MANAGER
>
> Marketing & Public Relations Wing
>
> Head Office Annex ground Floor
>
> 2nd Cross, Gandhi Nagar Bangalore – 560009
>
> PH NO :080 22207594
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* accessindia@accessindia.org.in  *On
> Behalf Of *Satguru Rathi
> *Sent:* 17 August 2022 11:08
> *To:* accessindia@accessindia.org.in
> *Subject:* Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is
> Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?
>
>
>
> *CAUTION:* This email is originated from outside Canara Bank. Do not
> click any links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and
> know that the content is safe.
>
> Well said! There are schools which teach Maths upto class 8th only and
> untill recently, few counted schools tought it upto 10th. How one expects
> from a blind candidate who has studied Maths till class 8th and was never
> even told in school about something called "Reasoning"! How would he solve
> such questions? Even if some fortunate one gets enrolled in some coatching,
> will he be able to understand all those concepts at par with his sighted
> pears? We must first focus on strengthning our education system.
>
>
>
> Best.
>
> On 8/16/2022 7:31 PM, Pinkesh Tailor wrote:
>
> Firstly the examination must be made visually impaired friendly. We
>
> are just been accommodated for examination which are meant for sighted
>
> people. Just giving some extra time, exemption from tables and
>
> graphical questions etc is not going to make any sense. And the
>
> fundamental issues remains unanswered, so as to how the special
>
> schools can trained visually impaired on logic, math which do not
>
> include visual graph or on tactile based questions at the primary and
>
> secondary schooling age. Some or many of us may be fortunate enough to
>
> have inclusive education, or having a good family status along with
>
&g

RE: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

[Pranav Lal]

Vaibhav,

 

I would have agreed a few years ago where screen readers did indeed have 
different keystrokes. However, these days, most screen readers have adopted 
similar keyboard layouts. Yes, there are differences but those are shrinking. I 
use nvda,  orca, narrator and jaws routinely. For basic word processing, the 
keystrokes are virtually the same. The same applies to navigating on the 
internet. Yes, jaws has forms mode, nvda has focus mode but that is a 
difference in terminology.

 

Computer trouble can hit any one and in any exam center. I was recently taking 
an exam at prometric where there was a delay of 2 hours because the exam 
software was not coming up.

Note:

I was using a scribe for that exam, screen readers were not permitted.

 

Pranav

-- 
Disclaimer:
1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the 
person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;

2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent 
through this mailing list..


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Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

[Marisport A]

Dear AI members,

This is a good discussion.

When we were asked to give our voice on NEP on Disabilities, we have
given our views on macro level and few points on each type of
disabilities. however, I opine the outcome based inclusive education
is the need of the hour.

when we are thinking about scribe related mal practices I would like
to highlight the following points,-

1) scribe as an option given to visually impaired who is totally or
partially blind.

2) the total blind has the option of learning screen reader from the beginning
 or using scribe from the beginning or both. however, the low vision
candidates may not have the experience of the both from beginning. In
fact, I come across some of the low vision candidates have opted for
scribe due to the font size and other technical glitches in the
examination.

3) I have appeared a group 4 exam in TNPSC, I have been allotted a
scribe and at the time of commencement of the exam, the examiner asked
the scribe to record our conversation during the exam in an audio
cassette. I opine that this can be adopted as best practice; but,
there is a possibility of haggling arrangement between the scribe and
the blind candidate.

4). audio and video recording of the entire exam by the blind while
using scribe could be a viable option; for this, mobile of examiner or
other people can be used for the recording.

5). though bringing scribe is given as an option to blind candidate
still, I advocate that government should have pool of scribe with
adequate qualification as per the requirements of each exams so that,
states and PSUs could minimize these mal practices. I would like to
highlight that my struggle on finding scribe during covid time while
writing swayam exam was very painful.

6) we should not forget stories of how genuine candidates who lost
their class exams and competitive exams due to unqualified scribes.

7) now option of scribe is also provided to other bench mark
disabilities as well; hence, I also emphasize to widen the discussion
for having comprehensive scribe policy.

Regards,
Dr. A. Marisport




On 8/20/22, Pranav Lal  wrote:
> Vaibhav,
>
>
>
> I would have agreed a few years ago where screen readers did indeed have
> different keystrokes. However, these days, most screen readers have adopted
> similar keyboard layouts. Yes, there are differences but those are
> shrinking. I use nvda,  orca, narrator and jaws routinely. For basic word
> processing, the keystrokes are virtually the same. The same applies to
> navigating on the internet. Yes, jaws has forms mode, nvda has focus mode
> but that is a difference in terminology.
>
>
>
> Computer trouble can hit any one and in any exam center. I was recently
> taking an exam at prometric where there was a delay of 2 hours because the
> exam software was not coming up.
>
> Note:
>
> I was using a scribe for that exam, screen readers were not permitted.
>
>
>
> Pranav
>
> --
> Disclaimer:
> 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the
> person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;
>
> 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails
> sent through this mailing list..
>
>
> Search for old postings at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "AccessIndia" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to accessindia+unsubscr...@accessindia.org.in.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/a/accessindia.org.in/d/msgid/accessindia/038001d8b439%2413d7b970%243b872c50%24%40gmail.com.
>

-- 
Disclaimer:
1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the 
person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;

2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent 
through this mailing list..


Search for old postings at:
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Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

[ishan sangi]

hellow everyone

this is my 2nd mail on this topic

let me share some cases with you all after there are some questions which
I need answers from all of you

case 1.
a student of class x who is  blind he prepare for his class x exam and he
was sure that  he will score well in Exams. on the day of exam the bord
give him scribe but the scribe was not good with english but student does
not want to spoil his exam he started with exam, after scribe started
facing problems with  pronunciation he started to speeking  spelling
e.g. transaction he told  t r a n s a c t I o n since the student was from
english medium  school he was given best scribe in previous exams. and now
he was faseing problem but he was understanding and answering questions,
when student was answering  questions he have to tell most of  word in the
form of spelling e.g. if student want to  dictate isolation he have to do
like I s  o l a  t I  o n which is taking time
please note that
the scribe was from senter and was studying in class IX
because of this the student got only 64 %

 part end
questions
what was the falt of student?
now who is responsible for this?

case 2
this time that student opted  for PC based exam for his class XII exam  he
was having subjects accounts, English, economics, business studies, maths
and  psychology on the first day he has paper of  accounts  when he reached
on his examination center he found out that the computers were not fine and
screen reader wascrashing he suffered from time shortage harf of his
paper was unattempted
2nd day when he having english exam things were fine  he did his paper
before time and came back home
3rd day when he has maths paper the screen reader was not reading question
properly again his paper was not good e.g. screen reader was reading times
simble  as X pai simble as !! divided simble as dash or plus, union  simble
U and 2 upon 5 as 2
5
next day psychology  paper was good
but on the day of economics paper  because of OCR problem again
mathematical simble were not read properly and  5X5 XY  graf was told like
xx
5
4
33
2
1
012345
how will he answer questions like these
on the day of  business studys paper suddenly computer got stopd, and it
wasn't started after many  tries.
on the result day
he got psychology 97 English 99 economics 43 maths 50 accounts 59 and in
business study paper it was 0
total 348/600=58%
his pre boad result
he got psychology 87  English 90 economics 93 maths 90 accounts 99 and in
business study 95
total 554/600

he can't make to his dream college
case end
what was the falt of student?
now who is responsible for this?
shouldn't we have to improve infrastructure first?
who will lisson his part?
what about his hardwork?
should he stop studying  subjects like economics, maths etc?


now if we are talking about scribe vs screan reader what is write


note both cases are not related to any live or ded  person

want to just explain how are problems are different in real life


and yes I was just  putting my points
don't want to hert  anyone's feelling
regards
ishan jain
co founder of EscaFate EdTech
student of indian institute of management indore
alumni of KiroriMal College University of Delhi
contact at
WhatsAPP  
LinkedIn 
official mail ishan.j...@escafate.com

WhatsApp 
contact

On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 9:02 AM Marisport A  wrote:

> Dear AI members,
>
> This is a good discussion.
>
> When we were asked to give our voice on NEP on Disabilities, we have
> given our views on macro level and few points on each type of
> disabilities. however, I opine the outcome based inclusive education
> is the need of the hour.
>
> when we are thinking about scribe related mal practices I would like
> to highlight the following points,-
>
> 1) scribe as an option given to visually impaired who is totally or
> partially blind.
>
> 2) the total blind has the option of learning screen reader from the
> beginning
>  or using scribe from the beginning or both. however, the low vision
> candidates may not have the experience of the both from beginning. In
> fact, I come across some of the low vision candidates have opted for
> scribe due to the font size and other technical glitches in the
> examination.
>
> 3) I have appeared a group 4 exam in TNPSC, I have been allotted a
> scribe and at the time of commencement of the exam, the examiner asked
> the scribe to record our conversation during the exam in an audio
> cassette. I opine that this can be adopted as best practice; but,
> there is a possibility of haggling arrangement between the scribe and
> the blind candidate.
>
> 4). audio and video recording of the entire exam by the blind while
> using scribe could be a viable option; for this, mobile of examiner or
> other people can be used for the recording.
>
> 5). though bringing scribe is given as an option to blind candidate
> still, I advocate that government should have pool of 

Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

[ishan sangi]

for more discussion please come on my whatsApp 

On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 8:41 PM ishan sangi  wrote:

> hellow everyone
>
> this is my 2nd mail on this topic
>
> let me share some cases with you all after there are some questions which
> I need answers from all of you
>
> case 1.
> a student of class x who is  blind he prepare for his class x exam and he
> was sure that  he will score well in Exams. on the day of exam the bord
> give him scribe but the scribe was not good with english but student does
> not want to spoil his exam he started with exam, after scribe started
> facing problems with  pronunciation he started to speeking  spelling
> e.g. transaction he told  t r a n s a c t I o n since the student was from
> english medium  school he was given best scribe in previous exams. and now
> he was faseing problem but he was understanding and answering questions,
> when student was answering  questions he have to tell most of  word in the
> form of spelling e.g. if student want to  dictate isolation he have to do
> like I s  o l a  t I  o n which is taking time
> please note that
> the scribe was from senter and was studying in class IX
> because of this the student got only 64 %
>
>  part end
> questions
> what was the falt of student?
> now who is responsible for this?
>
> case 2
> this time that student opted  for PC based exam for his class XII exam  he
> was having subjects accounts, English, economics, business studies, maths
> and  psychology on the first day he has paper of  accounts  when he reached
> on his examination center he found out that the computers were not fine and
> screen reader wascrashing he suffered from time shortage harf of his
> paper was unattempted
> 2nd day when he having english exam things were fine  he did his paper
> before time and came back home
> 3rd day when he has maths paper the screen reader was not reading question
> properly again his paper was not good e.g. screen reader was reading times
> simble  as X pai simble as !! divided simble as dash or plus, union  simble
> U and 2 upon 5 as 2
> 5
> next day psychology  paper was good
> but on the day of economics paper  because of OCR problem again
> mathematical simble were not read properly and  5X5 XY  graf was told like
> xx
> 5
> 4
> 33
> 2
> 1
> 012345
> how will he answer questions like these
> on the day of  business studys paper suddenly computer got stopd, and it
> wasn't started after many  tries.
> on the result day
> he got psychology 97 English 99 economics 43 maths 50 accounts 59 and in
> business study paper it was 0
> total 348/600=58%
> his pre boad result
> he got psychology 87  English 90 economics 93 maths 90 accounts 99 and in
> business study 95
> total 554/600
>
> he can't make to his dream college
> case end
> what was the falt of student?
> now who is responsible for this?
> shouldn't we have to improve infrastructure first?
> who will lisson his part?
> what about his hardwork?
> should he stop studying  subjects like economics, maths etc?
>
>
> now if we are talking about scribe vs screan reader what is write
>
>
> note both cases are not related to any live or ded  person
>
> want to just explain how are problems are different in real life
>
>
> and yes I was just  putting my points
> don't want to hert  anyone's feelling
> regards
> ishan jain
> co founder of EscaFate EdTech
> student of indian institute of management indore
> alumni of KiroriMal College University of Delhi
> contact at
> WhatsAPP  
> LinkedIn 
> official mail ishan.j...@escafate.com
>
> WhatsApp 
> contact
>
> On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 9:02 AM Marisport A  wrote:
>
>> Dear AI members,
>>
>> This is a good discussion.
>>
>> When we were asked to give our voice on NEP on Disabilities, we have
>> given our views on macro level and few points on each type of
>> disabilities. however, I opine the outcome based inclusive education
>> is the need of the hour.
>>
>> when we are thinking about scribe related mal practices I would like
>> to highlight the following points,-
>>
>> 1) scribe as an option given to visually impaired who is totally or
>> partially blind.
>>
>> 2) the total blind has the option of learning screen reader from the
>> beginning
>>  or using scribe from the beginning or both. however, the low vision
>> candidates may not have the experience of the both from beginning. In
>> fact, I come across some of the low vision candidates have opted for
>> scribe due to the font size and other technical glitches in the
>> examination.
>>
>> 3) I have appeared a group 4 exam in TNPSC, I have been allotted a
>> scribe and at the time of commencement of the exam, the examiner asked
>> the scribe to record our conversation during the exam in an audio
>> cassette. I opine that this can be adopted as best practice; but,
>> there is a possibility of haggling arrangement between the scribe and
>>

Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

[Minar Singh]

Hello ishan jain,
I was in the similar situation in final year of graduation please
consider 1st example from your reply. I had appeared for the final
year of graduation university exam with scribe Who could not read
English properly so it has impacted my career severely. I had scored
1st class in 1st year and 2nd year. In final year my result gone down
below 55 % because I couldn't find scribe who could read and write
English properly. When result was out My professor couldn't believe. I
had spent lot of time for the exam preparation but no use. We need to
advocate for better Infrastructure. Computer based exam is the only
for Efficiency  and Transparency.

On 8/22/22, ishan sangi  wrote:
> hellow everyone
>
> this is my 2nd mail on this topic
>
> let me share some cases with you all after there are some questions which
> I need answers from all of you
>
> case 1.
> a student of class x who is  blind he prepare for his class x exam and he
> was sure that  he will score well in Exams. on the day of exam the bord
> give him scribe but the scribe was not good with english but student does
> not want to spoil his exam he started with exam, after scribe started
> facing problems with  pronunciation he started to speeking  spelling
> e.g. transaction he told  t r a n s a c t I o n since the student was from
> english medium  school he was given best scribe in previous exams. and now
> he was faseing problem but he was understanding and answering questions,
> when student was answering  questions he have to tell most of  word in the
> form of spelling e.g. if student want to  dictate isolation he have to do
> like I s  o l a  t I  o n which is taking time
> please note that
> the scribe was from senter and was studying in class IX
> because of this the student got only 64 %
>
>  part end
> questions
> what was the falt of student?
> now who is responsible for this?
>
> case 2
> this time that student opted  for PC based exam for his class XII exam  he
> was having subjects accounts, English, economics, business studies, maths
> and  psychology on the first day he has paper of  accounts  when he reached
> on his examination center he found out that the computers were not fine and
> screen reader wascrashing he suffered from time shortage harf of his
> paper was unattempted
> 2nd day when he having english exam things were fine  he did his paper
> before time and came back home
> 3rd day when he has maths paper the screen reader was not reading question
> properly again his paper was not good e.g. screen reader was reading times
> simble  as X pai simble as !! divided simble as dash or plus, union  simble
> U and 2 upon 5 as 2
> 5
> next day psychology  paper was good
> but on the day of economics paper  because of OCR problem again
> mathematical simble were not read properly and  5X5 XY  graf was told like
> xx
> 5
> 4
> 33
> 2
> 1
> 012345
> how will he answer questions like these
> on the day of  business studys paper suddenly computer got stopd, and it
> wasn't started after many  tries.
> on the result day
> he got psychology 97 English 99 economics 43 maths 50 accounts 59 and in
> business study paper it was 0
> total 348/600=58%
> his pre boad result
> he got psychology 87  English 90 economics 93 maths 90 accounts 99 and in
> business study 95
> total 554/600
>
> he can't make to his dream college
> case end
> what was the falt of student?
> now who is responsible for this?
> shouldn't we have to improve infrastructure first?
> who will lisson his part?
> what about his hardwork?
> should he stop studying  subjects like economics, maths etc?
>
>
> now if we are talking about scribe vs screan reader what is write
>
>
> note both cases are not related to any live or ded  person
>
> want to just explain how are problems are different in real life
>
>
> and yes I was just  putting my points
> don't want to hert  anyone's feelling
> regards
> ishan jain
> co founder of EscaFate EdTech
> student of indian institute of management indore
> alumni of KiroriMal College University of Delhi
> contact at
> WhatsAPP  
> LinkedIn 
> official mail ishan.j...@escafate.com
>
> WhatsApp 
> contact
>
> On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 9:02 AM Marisport A  wrote:
>
>> Dear AI members,
>>
>> This is a good discussion.
>>
>> When we were asked to give our voice on NEP on Disabilities, we have
>> given our views on macro level and few points on each type of
>> disabilities. however, I opine the outcome based inclusive education
>> is the need of the hour.
>>
>> when we are thinking about scribe related mal practices I would like
>> to highlight the following points,-
>>
>> 1) scribe as an option given to visually impaired who is totally or
>> partially blind.
>>
>> 2) the total blind has the option of learning screen reader from the
>> beginning
>>  or using scribe from the beginning or both. however, the low vision
>> candidates may n

RE: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

['PAUL MUDDHA' via AccessIndia]

Dear Ishan,
I feel that in my 52 years of life on earth, I must have written minimum 500 
exams right from standard 5Th from an integrated school school in 1981.
During that time, my teachers would take turn to write my exam different 
teachers for different subjects.
In 10Th there was a rule that one grade below the scribe was eligible.
When I came to college, my exams were written by high school students provided 
by college themselves.
In 12Th standard the scribe who supposed to write my exam fell ill and an 8th 
standard wrote my exams.
During by bank exams for Jaiib and Caiib many a times scribes did not not turn 
up and several times the police man who was present wrote my exam with 
dictationof all spellings.
Now a days we sppek of computers which is fine, however, my view is that we 
can’t thing properly writing on computers thoughts will not flow well unless we 
practice well in advance.
I request you all to communicate with  the college officials, exam officials 
and write to boards to support Vi candidates with good scribes providing 
examples of earlier instances of bad scribes.
I think writing exams using computers subjects maths, economics and accounts 
would be tough unless you practive well.
Thanks
DR. PAUL MUDDHA
DIVISIONAL MANAGER
Marketing & Public Relations Wing
Head Office Annex ground Floor
2nd Cross, Gandhi Nagar Bangalore – 560009
PH NO :080 22207594


From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in  On Behalf 
Of ishan sangi
Sent: 22 August 2022 20:45
To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
Subject: Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 
'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

CAUTION: This email is originated from outside Canara Bank. Do not click any 
links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know that the 
content is safe.
for more discussion please come on my whatsApp<https://wa.me/919462942428>

On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 8:41 PM ishan sangi 
mailto:jsiya1...@gmail.com>> wrote:
hellow everyone

this is my 2nd mail on this topic

let me share some cases with you all after there are some questions which  I 
need answers from all of you

case 1.
a student of class x who is  blind he prepare for his class x exam and he was 
sure that  he will score well in Exams. on the day of exam the bord give him 
scribe but the scribe was not good with english but student does not want to 
spoil his exam he started with exam, after scribe started facing problems with  
pronunciation he started to speeking  spelling e.g. transaction he told  t r a 
n s a c t I o n since the student was from english medium  school he was given 
best scribe in previous exams. and now he was faseing problem but he was 
understanding and answering questions, when student was answering  questions he 
have to tell most of  word in the form of spelling e.g. if student want to  
dictate isolation he have to do like I s  o l a  t I  o n which is taking time
please note that
the scribe was from senter and was studying in class IX
because of this the student got only 64 %

 part end
questions
what was the falt of student?
now who is responsible for this?

case 2
this time that student opted  for PC based exam for his class XII exam  he was 
having subjects accounts, English, economics, business studies, maths and  
psychology on the first day he has paper of  accounts  when he reached on his 
examination center he found out that the computers were not fine and screen 
reader wascrashing he suffered from time shortage harf of his paper was 
unattempted
2nd day when he having english exam things were fine  he did his paper before 
time and came back home
3rd day when he has maths paper the screen reader was not reading question 
properly again his paper was not good e.g. screen reader was reading times 
simble  as X pai simble as !! divided simble as dash or plus, union  simble U 
and 2 upon 5 as 2
5
next day psychology  paper was good
but on the day of economics paper  because of OCR problem again mathematical 
simble were not read properly and  5X5 XY  graf was told like
xx
5
4
33
2
1
012345
how will he answer questions like these
on the day of  business studys paper suddenly computer got stopd, and it wasn't 
started after many  tries.
on the result day
he got psychology 97 English 99 economics 43 maths 50 accounts 59 and in 
business study paper it was 0
total 348/600=58%
his pre boad result
he got psychology 87  English 90 economics 93 maths 90 accounts 99 and in 
business study 95
total 554/600

he can't make to his dream college
case end
what was the falt of student?
now who is responsible for this?
shouldn't we have to improve infrastructure first?
who will lisson his part?
what about his hardwork?
should he stop studying  subjects like economics, maths etc?


now if we are talking about scribe vs screan reader what is write


note both cases are not related to any live or ded  person

want to just explain how are problems are d

Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

[Harish Kotian]

Hi


I have been staying away from this thread, as I have in past, have 
expressed my view on this topic. This issue surfaces time and again on  
this list.



This is my personal take. I believe, the system should be disabled 
centric. It should support him to bring out his potential fully.



We should also factor in that disability occurs at different times to 
different persons. Therefore, the time to get rehabilitated is different 
and it cannot be preset. Besides, the level of technology intervention 
besides the quality of technology is so very variant. Therefore, what is 
required is flexibility and spirit of accommodation.



Yes, we know as a matter of fact, some folks resort to malpractice 
taking undue advantage of the situation.



The only way out is strict in vigilance. We need to call out names where 
we know there is misdoing.We need to complaint about those persons and 
make only them pay for it.



Merely grumbling here and not doing the later part is doing wrong to the 
deserving candidates. It is also alarming, the general perception is 
altering that blind persons are abusing the system. Therefore, the 
onus   of proving that we have earned our marks is on us, by raising our 
standards that no one dares to think otherwise.



Harish Kotian


On 22/08/2022 20:45, ishan sangi wrote:

for more discussion please come on my whatsApp 

On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 8:41 PM ishan sangi  wrote:


hellow everyone

this is my 2nd mail on this topic

let me share some cases with you all after there are some questions which
I need answers from all of you

case 1.
a student of class x who is  blind he prepare for his class x exam and he
was sure that  he will score well in Exams. on the day of exam the bord
give him scribe but the scribe was not good with english but student does
not want to spoil his exam he started with exam, after scribe started
facing problems with  pronunciation he started to speeking  spelling
e.g. transaction he told  t r a n s a c t I o n since the student was from
english medium  school he was given best scribe in previous exams. and now
he was faseing problem but he was understanding and answering questions,
when student was answering  questions he have to tell most of  word in the
form of spelling e.g. if student want to  dictate isolation he have to do
like I s  o l a  t I  o n which is taking time
please note that
the scribe was from senter and was studying in class IX
because of this the student got only 64 %

  part end
questions
what was the falt of student?
now who is responsible for this?

case 2
this time that student opted  for PC based exam for his class XII exam  he
was having subjects accounts, English, economics, business studies, maths
and  psychology on the first day he has paper of  accounts  when he reached
on his examination center he found out that the computers were not fine and
screen reader wascrashing he suffered from time shortage harf of his
paper was unattempted
2nd day when he having english exam things were fine  he did his paper
before time and came back home
3rd day when he has maths paper the screen reader was not reading question
properly again his paper was not good e.g. screen reader was reading times
simble  as X pai simble as !! divided simble as dash or plus, union  simble
U and 2 upon 5 as 2
5
next day psychology  paper was good
but on the day of economics paper  because of OCR problem again
mathematical simble were not read properly and  5X5 XY  graf was told like
xx
5
4
33
2
1
012345
how will he answer questions like these
on the day of  business studys paper suddenly computer got stopd, and it
wasn't started after many  tries.
on the result day
he got psychology 97 English 99 economics 43 maths 50 accounts 59 and in
business study paper it was 0
total 348/600=58%
his pre boad result
he got psychology 87  English 90 economics 93 maths 90 accounts 99 and in
business study 95
total 554/600

he can't make to his dream college
case end
what was the falt of student?
now who is responsible for this?
shouldn't we have to improve infrastructure first?
who will lisson his part?
what about his hardwork?
should he stop studying  subjects like economics, maths etc?


now if we are talking about scribe vs screan reader what is write


note both cases are not related to any live or ded  person

want to just explain how are problems are different in real life


and yes I was just  putting my points
don't want to hert  anyone's feelling
regards
ishan jain
co founder of EscaFate EdTech
student of indian institute of management indore
alumni of KiroriMal College University of Delhi
contact at
WhatsAPP  
LinkedIn 
official mail ishan.j...@escafate.com

WhatsApp 
contact

On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 9:02 AM Marisport A  wrote:


Dear AI members,

This is a good discussion.

When we were asked to give our voice on NEP on Disabilit

Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

[anirudh rao]

hi Ishan,
you have well pointed out the flaws in both the systems.
but, you have not given any suggestions to improve the same.
by infrastructure developement, what type of improvement are you talking about?
and what are the infrastructure in this case?
and Paul sir, the time has changed.
technology is the way of the future.

On 8/23/22, Harish Kotian  wrote:
> Hi
>
>
> I have been staying away from this thread, as I have in past, have
> expressed my view on this topic. This issue surfaces time and again on
> this list.
>
>
> This is my personal take. I believe, the system should be disabled
> centric. It should support him to bring out his potential fully.
>
>
> We should also factor in that disability occurs at different times to
> different persons. Therefore, the time to get rehabilitated is different
> and it cannot be preset. Besides, the level of technology intervention
> besides the quality of technology is so very variant. Therefore, what is
> required is flexibility and spirit of accommodation.
>
>
> Yes, we know as a matter of fact, some folks resort to malpractice
> taking undue advantage of the situation.
>
>
> The only way out is strict in vigilance. We need to call out names where
> we know there is misdoing.We need to complaint about those persons and
> make only them pay for it.
>
>
> Merely grumbling here and not doing the later part is doing wrong to the
> deserving candidates. It is also alarming, the general perception is
> altering that blind persons are abusing the system. Therefore, the
> onus   of proving that we have earned our marks is on us, by raising our
> standards that no one dares to think otherwise.
>
>
> Harish Kotian
>
>
> On 22/08/2022 20:45, ishan sangi wrote:
>> for more discussion please come on my whatsApp
>> 
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 8:41 PM ishan sangi  wrote:
>>
>>> hellow everyone
>>>
>>> this is my 2nd mail on this topic
>>>
>>> let me share some cases with you all after there are some questions
>>> which
>>> I need answers from all of you
>>>
>>> case 1.
>>> a student of class x who is  blind he prepare for his class x exam and
>>> he
>>> was sure that  he will score well in Exams. on the day of exam the bord
>>> give him scribe but the scribe was not good with english but student
>>> does
>>> not want to spoil his exam he started with exam, after scribe started
>>> facing problems with  pronunciation he started to speeking  spelling
>>> e.g. transaction he told  t r a n s a c t I o n since the student was
>>> from
>>> english medium  school he was given best scribe in previous exams. and
>>> now
>>> he was faseing problem but he was understanding and answering questions,
>>> when student was answering  questions he have to tell most of  word in
>>> the
>>> form of spelling e.g. if student want to  dictate isolation he have to
>>> do
>>> like I s  o l a  t I  o n which is taking time
>>> please note that
>>> the scribe was from senter and was studying in class IX
>>> because of this the student got only 64 %
>>>
>>>   part end
>>> questions
>>> what was the falt of student?
>>> now who is responsible for this?
>>>
>>> case 2
>>> this time that student opted  for PC based exam for his class XII exam
>>> he
>>> was having subjects accounts, English, economics, business studies,
>>> maths
>>> and  psychology on the first day he has paper of  accounts  when he
>>> reached
>>> on his examination center he found out that the computers were not fine
>>> and
>>> screen reader wascrashing he suffered from time shortage harf of his
>>> paper was unattempted
>>> 2nd day when he having english exam things were fine  he did his paper
>>> before time and came back home
>>> 3rd day when he has maths paper the screen reader was not reading
>>> question
>>> properly again his paper was not good e.g. screen reader was reading
>>> times
>>> simble  as X pai simble as !! divided simble as dash or plus, union
>>> simble
>>> U and 2 upon 5 as 2
>>> 5
>>> next day psychology  paper was good
>>> but on the day of economics paper  because of OCR problem again
>>> mathematical simble were not read properly and  5X5 XY  graf was told
>>> like
>>> xx
>>> 5
>>> 4
>>> 33
>>> 2
>>> 1
>>> 012345
>>> how will he answer questions like these
>>> on the day of  business studys paper suddenly computer got stopd, and it
>>> wasn't started after many  tries.
>>> on the result day
>>> he got psychology 97 English 99 economics 43 maths 50 accounts 59 and in
>>> business study paper it was 0
>>> total 348/600=58%
>>> his pre boad result
>>> he got psychology 87  English 90 economics 93 maths 90 accounts 99 and
>>> in
>>> business study 95
>>> total 554/600
>>>
>>> he can't make to his dream college
>>> case end
>>> what was the falt of student?
>>> now who is responsible for this?
>>> shouldn't we have to improve infrastructure first?
>>> who will lisson his part?
>>> what about his hardwork?
>>> should he stop studying  subjects like economics, maths etc?
>>>
>>>

RE: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

['PAUL MUDDHA' via AccessIndia]

Yes, times have changed and so as technology too.
But how many vi students can afford to have computers and learn technology in 
quick time?

I am only telling that before exploring to give exams in systems, have 
practical knowledge to do the exercises rather than struggling during exams.
Cheers


DR. PAUL MUDDHA
DIVISIONAL MANAGER
Marketing & Public Relations Wing
Head Office Annex ground Floor
2nd Cross, Gandhi Nagar Bangalore – 560009
PH NO :080 22207594


-Original Message-
From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in  On Behalf 
Of anirudh rao
Sent: 23 August 2022 13:22
To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
Subject: Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 
'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

CAUTION: This email is originated from outside Canara Bank. Do not click any 
links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know that the 
content is safe.

hi Ishan,
you have well pointed out the flaws in both the systems.
but, you have not given any suggestions to improve the same.
by infrastructure developement, what type of improvement are you talking about?
and what are the infrastructure in this case?
and Paul sir, the time has changed.
technology is the way of the future.

On 8/23/22, Harish Kotian  wrote:
> Hi
>
>
> I have been staying away from this thread, as I have in past, have
> expressed my view on this topic. This issue surfaces time and again on
> this list.
>
>
> This is my personal take. I believe, the system should be disabled
> centric. It should support him to bring out his potential fully.
>
>
> We should also factor in that disability occurs at different times to
> different persons. Therefore, the time to get rehabilitated is
> different and it cannot be preset. Besides, the level of technology
> intervention besides the quality of technology is so very variant.
> Therefore, what is required is flexibility and spirit of accommodation.
>
>
> Yes, we know as a matter of fact, some folks resort to malpractice
> taking undue advantage of the situation.
>
>
> The only way out is strict in vigilance. We need to call out names
> where we know there is misdoing.We need to complaint about those
> persons and make only them pay for it.
>
>
> Merely grumbling here and not doing the later part is doing wrong to
> the deserving candidates. It is also alarming, the general perception
> is altering that blind persons are abusing the system. Therefore, the
> onus   of proving that we have earned our marks is on us, by raising our
> standards that no one dares to think otherwise.
>
>
> Harish Kotian
>
>
> On 22/08/2022 20:45, ishan sangi wrote:
>> for more discussion please come on my whatsApp
>> <https://wa.me/919462942428>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 8:41 PM ishan sangi  wrote:
>>
>>> hellow everyone
>>>
>>> this is my 2nd mail on this topic
>>>
>>> let me share some cases with you all after there are some questions
>>> which I need answers from all of you
>>>
>>> case 1.
>>> a student of class x who is  blind he prepare for his class x exam
>>> and he was sure that  he will score well in Exams. on the day of
>>> exam the bord give him scribe but the scribe was not good with
>>> english but student does not want to spoil his exam he started with
>>> exam, after scribe started facing problems with  pronunciation he
>>> started to speeking  spelling e.g. transaction he told  t r a n s a
>>> c t I o n since the student was from english medium  school he was
>>> given best scribe in previous exams. and now he was faseing problem
>>> but he was understanding and answering questions, when student was
>>> answering  questions he have to tell most of  word in the form of
>>> spelling e.g. if student want to  dictate isolation he have to do
>>> like I s  o l a  t I  o n which is taking time please note that the
>>> scribe was from senter and was studying in class IX because of this
>>> the student got only 64 %
>>>
>>>   part end
>>> questions
>>> what was the falt of student?
>>> now who is responsible for this?
>>>
>>> case 2
>>> this time that student opted  for PC based exam for his class XII
>>> exam he was having subjects accounts, English, economics, business
>>> studies, maths and  psychology on the first day he has paper of
>>> accounts  when he reached on his examination center he found out
>>> that the computers were not fine and
>>> screen reader wascrashing he suffered from time shortage harf of his
>>> paper was unattempted
>>> 2nd day when he h

Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

[Harish Kotian]

Hi Anirudh


To summarize what I wrote in my last post:

1 The exam process should be disabled centric. Meaning option to use 
scribe, technology etc whatever suits the candidate.


2 Complaining to authorities whenever we come to know about any malpractice.

3 Strict envigilance

4Raising our bar so that no one   can have any room to doubt our 
credibility and ability.


These were what I was trying to convey.

Harish Kotian


On 23/08/2022 13:22, anirudh rao wrote:

hi Ishan,
you have well pointed out the flaws in both the systems.
but, you have not given any suggestions to improve the same.
by infrastructure developement, what type of improvement are you talking about?
and what are the infrastructure in this case?
and Paul sir, the time has changed.
technology is the way of the future.

On 8/23/22, Harish Kotian  wrote:

Hi


I have been staying away from this thread, as I have in past, have
expressed my view on this topic. This issue surfaces time and again on
this list.


This is my personal take. I believe, the system should be disabled
centric. It should support him to bring out his potential fully.


We should also factor in that disability occurs at different times to
different persons. Therefore, the time to get rehabilitated is different
and it cannot be preset. Besides, the level of technology intervention
besides the quality of technology is so very variant. Therefore, what is
required is flexibility and spirit of accommodation.


Yes, we know as a matter of fact, some folks resort to malpractice
taking undue advantage of the situation.


The only way out is strict in vigilance. We need to call out names where
we know there is misdoing.We need to complaint about those persons and
make only them pay for it.


Merely grumbling here and not doing the later part is doing wrong to the
deserving candidates. It is also alarming, the general perception is
altering that blind persons are abusing the system. Therefore, the
onus   of proving that we have earned our marks is on us, by raising our
standards that no one dares to think otherwise.


Harish Kotian


On 22/08/2022 20:45, ishan sangi wrote:

for more discussion please come on my whatsApp


On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 8:41 PM ishan sangi  wrote:


hellow everyone

this is my 2nd mail on this topic

let me share some cases with you all after there are some questions
which
I need answers from all of you

case 1.
a student of class x who is  blind he prepare for his class x exam and
he
was sure that  he will score well in Exams. on the day of exam the bord
give him scribe but the scribe was not good with english but student
does
not want to spoil his exam he started with exam, after scribe started
facing problems with  pronunciation he started to speeking  spelling
e.g. transaction he told  t r a n s a c t I o n since the student was
from
english medium  school he was given best scribe in previous exams. and
now
he was faseing problem but he was understanding and answering questions,
when student was answering  questions he have to tell most of  word in
the
form of spelling e.g. if student want to  dictate isolation he have to
do
like I s  o l a  t I  o n which is taking time
please note that
the scribe was from senter and was studying in class IX
because of this the student got only 64 %

   part end
questions
what was the falt of student?
now who is responsible for this?

case 2
this time that student opted  for PC based exam for his class XII exam
he
was having subjects accounts, English, economics, business studies,
maths
and  psychology on the first day he has paper of  accounts  when he
reached
on his examination center he found out that the computers were not fine
and
screen reader wascrashing he suffered from time shortage harf of his
paper was unattempted
2nd day when he having english exam things were fine  he did his paper
before time and came back home
3rd day when he has maths paper the screen reader was not reading
question
properly again his paper was not good e.g. screen reader was reading
times
simble  as X pai simble as !! divided simble as dash or plus, union
simble
U and 2 upon 5 as 2
5
next day psychology  paper was good
but on the day of economics paper  because of OCR problem again
mathematical simble were not read properly and  5X5 XY  graf was told
like
xx
5
4
33
2
1
012345
how will he answer questions like these
on the day of  business studys paper suddenly computer got stopd, and it
wasn't started after many  tries.
on the result day
he got psychology 97 English 99 economics 43 maths 50 accounts 59 and in
business study paper it was 0
total 348/600=58%
his pre boad result
he got psychology 87  English 90 economics 93 maths 90 accounts 99 and
in
business study 95
total 554/600

he can't make to his dream college
case end
what was the falt of student?
now who is responsible for this?
shouldn't we have to improve infrastructure first?
who will lisson his part?
what about his hardwork?
should he st

Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

[ishan sangi]

Dear list members

I hope you are doing great

I haven't discussed any solution in my previous mails because

I am writing a proper case and its solution so that I can share it with
everyone over this list
Although I support technological intervention in exams but don't you think
it is possible to do cheating in exam
With the help of computers and laptops
And introducing technology in examination hall is not that much  easy it
requires lot of changes starting from software development to paper setting
and lots of homework because in this case we can't leave any stone unturn
and as we know  everything is subjective to person to person however I do
support technology and human interaction in exams and will send my opinion
very soon

Regards
Ishan jain
Student of Indian institute of management Indore
Alumni Of the kirorimal college University of Delhi
Co-founder of escafate edtech

On Tue, Aug 23, 2022, 2:30 PM 'PAUL MUDDHA' via AccessIndia <
accessindia@accessindia.org.in> wrote:

> Yes, times have changed and so as technology too.
> But how many vi students can afford to have computers and learn technology
> in quick time?
>
> I am only telling that before exploring to give exams in systems, have
> practical knowledge to do the exercises rather than struggling during exams.
> Cheers
>
>
> DR. PAUL MUDDHA
> DIVISIONAL MANAGER
> Marketing & Public Relations Wing
> Head Office Annex ground Floor
> 2nd Cross, Gandhi Nagar Bangalore – 560009
> PH NO :080 22207594
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in  On
> Behalf Of anirudh rao
> Sent: 23 August 2022 13:22
> To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
> Subject: Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is
> Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?
>
> CAUTION: This email is originated from outside Canara Bank. Do not click
> any links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know that
> the content is safe.
>
> hi Ishan,
> you have well pointed out the flaws in both the systems.
> but, you have not given any suggestions to improve the same.
> by infrastructure developement, what type of improvement are you talking
> about?
> and what are the infrastructure in this case?
> and Paul sir, the time has changed.
> technology is the way of the future.
>
> On 8/23/22, Harish Kotian  wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> >
> > I have been staying away from this thread, as I have in past, have
> > expressed my view on this topic. This issue surfaces time and again on
> > this list.
> >
> >
> > This is my personal take. I believe, the system should be disabled
> > centric. It should support him to bring out his potential fully.
> >
> >
> > We should also factor in that disability occurs at different times to
> > different persons. Therefore, the time to get rehabilitated is
> > different and it cannot be preset. Besides, the level of technology
> > intervention besides the quality of technology is so very variant.
> > Therefore, what is required is flexibility and spirit of accommodation.
> >
> >
> > Yes, we know as a matter of fact, some folks resort to malpractice
> > taking undue advantage of the situation.
> >
> >
> > The only way out is strict in vigilance. We need to call out names
> > where we know there is misdoing.We need to complaint about those
> > persons and make only them pay for it.
> >
> >
> > Merely grumbling here and not doing the later part is doing wrong to
> > the deserving candidates. It is also alarming, the general perception
> > is altering that blind persons are abusing the system. Therefore, the
> > onus   of proving that we have earned our marks is on us, by raising our
> > standards that no one dares to think otherwise.
> >
> >
> > Harish Kotian
> >
> >
> > On 22/08/2022 20:45, ishan sangi wrote:
> >> for more discussion please come on my whatsApp
> >> <https://wa.me/919462942428>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 8:41 PM ishan sangi 
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> hellow everyone
> >>>
> >>> this is my 2nd mail on this topic
> >>>
> >>> let me share some cases with you all after there are some questions
> >>> which I need answers from all of you
> >>>
> >>> case 1.
> >>> a student of class x who is  blind he prepare for his class x exam
> >>> and he was sure that  he will score well in Exams. on the day of
> >>> exam the bord give him scribe but the scribe was not good with
> >>> english but student does not want

RE: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

[techsavi.shankar]

Don’t know about the past generations, but, if you ask me now, each and every 
student must introduced with the screen readers and other technologies from the 
standard 1 in all the integrated plus special schools.
When the student reach standard 5, they should be able to access to internet to 
find the information themselves without depending on the others.
And talking about the examination tool,
A group of people from our community can develop the proto type tool and can 
give the demo on the same to the examination authorities and need to convince 
about the myths and misconception's on accessibility.

-Original Message-
From: 'PAUL MUDDHA' via AccessIndia  
Sent: 23 August 2022 14:30
To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
Subject: RE: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 
'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

Yes, times have changed and so as technology too.
But how many vi students can afford to have computers and learn technology in 
quick time?

I am only telling that before exploring to give exams in systems, have 
practical knowledge to do the exercises rather than struggling during exams.
Cheers


DR. PAUL MUDDHA
DIVISIONAL MANAGER
Marketing & Public Relations Wing
Head Office Annex ground Floor
2nd Cross, Gandhi Nagar Bangalore – 560009 PH NO :080 22207594


-Original Message-
From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in  On Behalf 
Of anirudh rao
Sent: 23 August 2022 13:22
To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
Subject: Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 
'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

CAUTION: This email is originated from outside Canara Bank. Do not click any 
links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know that the 
content is safe.

hi Ishan,
you have well pointed out the flaws in both the systems.
but, you have not given any suggestions to improve the same.
by infrastructure developement, what type of improvement are you talking about?
and what are the infrastructure in this case?
and Paul sir, the time has changed.
technology is the way of the future.

On 8/23/22, Harish Kotian  wrote:
> Hi
>
>
> I have been staying away from this thread, as I have in past, have 
> expressed my view on this topic. This issue surfaces time and again on 
> this list.
>
>
> This is my personal take. I believe, the system should be disabled 
> centric. It should support him to bring out his potential fully.
>
>
> We should also factor in that disability occurs at different times to 
> different persons. Therefore, the time to get rehabilitated is 
> different and it cannot be preset. Besides, the level of technology 
> intervention besides the quality of technology is so very variant.
> Therefore, what is required is flexibility and spirit of accommodation.
>
>
> Yes, we know as a matter of fact, some folks resort to malpractice 
> taking undue advantage of the situation.
>
>
> The only way out is strict in vigilance. We need to call out names 
> where we know there is misdoing.We need to complaint about those 
> persons and make only them pay for it.
>
>
> Merely grumbling here and not doing the later part is doing wrong to 
> the deserving candidates. It is also alarming, the general perception 
> is altering that blind persons are abusing the system. Therefore, the
> onus   of proving that we have earned our marks is on us, by raising our
> standards that no one dares to think otherwise.
>
>
> Harish Kotian
>
>
> On 22/08/2022 20:45, ishan sangi wrote:
>> for more discussion please come on my whatsApp 
>> <https://wa.me/919462942428>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 8:41 PM ishan sangi  wrote:
>>
>>> hellow everyone
>>>
>>> this is my 2nd mail on this topic
>>>
>>> let me share some cases with you all after there are some questions 
>>> which I need answers from all of you
>>>
>>> case 1.
>>> a student of class x who is  blind he prepare for his class x exam 
>>> and he was sure that  he will score well in Exams. on the day of 
>>> exam the bord give him scribe but the scribe was not good with 
>>> english but student does not want to spoil his exam he started with 
>>> exam, after scribe started facing problems with  pronunciation he 
>>> started to speeking  spelling e.g. transaction he told  t r a n s a 
>>> c t I o n since the student was from english medium  school he was 
>>> given best scribe in previous exams. and now he was faseing problem 
>>> but he was understanding and answering questions, when student was 
>>> answering  questions he have to tell most of  word in the form of 
>>> spelling e.g. if student want to  dictate is

RE: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

[techsavi.shankar]

Also, the time limits must extended for the screen reader users for calculating 
the mathematical expressions, budget friendly, special talking calculators must 
introduce in the market.
A person must hire for the technology troubleshooting in the examination sender.

-Original Message-
From: techsavi.shan...@gmail.com  
Sent: 23 August 2022 22:49
To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
Subject: RE: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 
'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

Don’t know about the past generations, but, if you ask me now, each and every 
student must introduced with the screen readers and other technologies from the 
standard 1 in all the integrated plus special schools.
When the student reach standard 5, they should be able to access to internet to 
find the information themselves without depending on the others.
And talking about the examination tool,
A group of people from our community can develop the proto type tool and can 
give the demo on the same to the examination authorities and need to convince 
about the myths and misconception's on accessibility.

-Original Message-
From: 'PAUL MUDDHA' via AccessIndia 
Sent: 23 August 2022 14:30
To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
Subject: RE: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 
'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

Yes, times have changed and so as technology too.
But how many vi students can afford to have computers and learn technology in 
quick time?

I am only telling that before exploring to give exams in systems, have 
practical knowledge to do the exercises rather than struggling during exams.
Cheers


DR. PAUL MUDDHA
DIVISIONAL MANAGER
Marketing & Public Relations Wing
Head Office Annex ground Floor
2nd Cross, Gandhi Nagar Bangalore – 560009 PH NO :080 22207594


-Original Message-
From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in  On Behalf 
Of anirudh rao
Sent: 23 August 2022 13:22
To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
Subject: Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 
'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

CAUTION: This email is originated from outside Canara Bank. Do not click any 
links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know that the 
content is safe.

hi Ishan,
you have well pointed out the flaws in both the systems.
but, you have not given any suggestions to improve the same.
by infrastructure developement, what type of improvement are you talking about?
and what are the infrastructure in this case?
and Paul sir, the time has changed.
technology is the way of the future.

On 8/23/22, Harish Kotian  wrote:
> Hi
>
>
> I have been staying away from this thread, as I have in past, have 
> expressed my view on this topic. This issue surfaces time and again on 
> this list.
>
>
> This is my personal take. I believe, the system should be disabled 
> centric. It should support him to bring out his potential fully.
>
>
> We should also factor in that disability occurs at different times to 
> different persons. Therefore, the time to get rehabilitated is 
> different and it cannot be preset. Besides, the level of technology 
> intervention besides the quality of technology is so very variant.
> Therefore, what is required is flexibility and spirit of accommodation.
>
>
> Yes, we know as a matter of fact, some folks resort to malpractice 
> taking undue advantage of the situation.
>
>
> The only way out is strict in vigilance. We need to call out names 
> where we know there is misdoing.We need to complaint about those 
> persons and make only them pay for it.
>
>
> Merely grumbling here and not doing the later part is doing wrong to 
> the deserving candidates. It is also alarming, the general perception 
> is altering that blind persons are abusing the system. Therefore, the
> onus   of proving that we have earned our marks is on us, by raising our
> standards that no one dares to think otherwise.
>
>
> Harish Kotian
>
>
> On 22/08/2022 20:45, ishan sangi wrote:
>> for more discussion please come on my whatsApp 
>> <https://wa.me/919462942428>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 8:41 PM ishan sangi  wrote:
>>
>>> hellow everyone
>>>
>>> this is my 2nd mail on this topic
>>>
>>> let me share some cases with you all after there are some questions 
>>> which I need answers from all of you
>>>
>>> case 1.
>>> a student of class x who is  blind he prepare for his class x exam 
>>> and he was sure that  he will score well in Exams. on the day of 
>>> exam the bord give him scribe but the scribe was not good with 
>>> english but student does not want to spoil his exam he started with 
>>

RE: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

[Pranav Lal]

Dear Ishan,

 

As for computers and laptops and cheating, how would you cheat? This assumes 
that the institution is supplying the device. There are ways to block cheating 
even on your own device. One possible workaround is to use the cloud in terms 
of a desktop as a service model where you have a golden image which you use. 
This will have a set version of the operating system and screen reader 
installed. You can have a containerized application running on your own machine 
as well and it is hard for any user to break out of that container.. 

 

I have taken exams on the computer where at least I was hard put to do anything 
else. You do not need to do any software development. You keep the computer on 
a restricted internet connection and unless the student wants to waste time 
hacking the internet gateway, he is going to be hard put to cheat. Moreover, 
think of controls as a layered approach. You have technical controls and then 
you have the process controls in the form of invigilation.

For that matter, you get software today that can monitor the keystrokes of a 
user. You can even keep a log of what the student did for later review.

In one of your earlier posts, you listed some issues with technology. Exam 
question paper digital formats need to be standardized. Technology solutions 
are in place. We need administrative solutions here. 

 

Pranav

From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in  On Behalf 
Of ishan sangi
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2022 5:52 PM
To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
Subject: Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 
'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

 

Dear list members

I hope you are doing great

I haven't discussed any solution in my previous mails because

I am writing a proper case and its solution so that I can share it with 
everyone over this list
Although I support technological intervention in exams but don't you think it 
is possible to do cheating in exam
With the help of computers and laptops
And introducing technology in examination hall is not that much  easy it 
requires lot of changes starting from software development to paper setting and 
lots of homework because in this case we can't leave any stone unturn and as we 
know  everything is subjective to person to person however I do support 
technology and human interaction in exams and will send my opinion very soon

Regards 
Ishan jain
Student of Indian institute of management Indore
Alumni Of the kirorimal college University of Delhi
Co-founder of escafate edtech 

 

On Tue, Aug 23, 2022, 2:30 PM 'PAUL MUDDHA' via AccessIndia 
mailto:accessindia@accessindia.org.in> > wrote:

Yes, times have changed and so as technology too.
But how many vi students can afford to have computers and learn technology in 
quick time?

I am only telling that before exploring to give exams in systems, have 
practical knowledge to do the exercises rather than struggling during exams.
Cheers


DR. PAUL MUDDHA
DIVISIONAL MANAGER
Marketing & Public Relations Wing
Head Office Annex ground Floor
2nd Cross, Gandhi Nagar Bangalore – 560009
PH NO :080 22207594


-Original Message-
From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in <mailto:accessindia@accessindia.org.in>  
mailto:accessindia@accessindia.org.in> > On 
Behalf Of anirudh rao
Sent: 23 August 2022 13:22
To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in <mailto:accessindia@accessindia.org.in> 
Subject: Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 
'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

CAUTION: This email is originated from outside Canara Bank. Do not click any 
links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know that the 
content is safe.

hi Ishan,
you have well pointed out the flaws in both the systems.
but, you have not given any suggestions to improve the same.
by infrastructure developement, what type of improvement are you talking about?
and what are the infrastructure in this case?
and Paul sir, the time has changed.
technology is the way of the future.

On 8/23/22, Harish Kotian mailto:hpkot...@outlook.com> > 
wrote:
> Hi
>
>
> I have been staying away from this thread, as I have in past, have
> expressed my view on this topic. This issue surfaces time and again on
> this list.
>
>
> This is my personal take. I believe, the system should be disabled
> centric. It should support him to bring out his potential fully.
>
>
> We should also factor in that disability occurs at different times to
> different persons. Therefore, the time to get rehabilitated is
> different and it cannot be preset. Besides, the level of technology
> intervention besides the quality of technology is so very variant.
> Therefore, what is required is flexibility and spirit of accommodation.
>
>
> Yes, we know as a matter of fact, some folks resort to malpractice
> taking undue advan

RE: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

[Pranav Lal]

Hi Shankar,

I speak from experience having taken computer-based exams.  It is hard to say 
about extra time, therefore let us get it  but you do not need to develop any 
kind of calculator. The software exists.

Pranav
-Original Message-
From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in  On Behalf 
Of techsavi.shan...@gmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2022 11:00 PM
To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
Subject: RE: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 
'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

Also, the time limits must extended for the screen reader users for calculating 
the mathematical expressions, budget friendly, special talking calculators must 
introduce in the market.
A person must hire for the technology troubleshooting in the examination sender.

-Original Message-
From: techsavi.shan...@gmail.com 
Sent: 23 August 2022 22:49
To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
Subject: RE: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 
'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

Don’t know about the past generations, but, if you ask me now, each and every 
student must introduced with the screen readers and other technologies from the 
standard 1 in all the integrated plus special schools.
When the student reach standard 5, they should be able to access to internet to 
find the information themselves without depending on the others.
And talking about the examination tool,
A group of people from our community can develop the proto type tool and can 
give the demo on the same to the examination authorities and need to convince 
about the myths and misconception's on accessibility.

-Original Message-
From: 'PAUL MUDDHA' via AccessIndia 
Sent: 23 August 2022 14:30
To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
Subject: RE: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 
'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

Yes, times have changed and so as technology too.
But how many vi students can afford to have computers and learn technology in 
quick time?

I am only telling that before exploring to give exams in systems, have 
practical knowledge to do the exercises rather than struggling during exams.
Cheers


DR. PAUL MUDDHA
DIVISIONAL MANAGER
Marketing & Public Relations Wing
Head Office Annex ground Floor
2nd Cross, Gandhi Nagar Bangalore – 560009 PH NO :080 22207594


-Original Message-
From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in  On Behalf 
Of anirudh rao
Sent: 23 August 2022 13:22
To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
Subject: Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 
'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

CAUTION: This email is originated from outside Canara Bank. Do not click any 
links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know that the 
content is safe.

hi Ishan,
you have well pointed out the flaws in both the systems.
but, you have not given any suggestions to improve the same.
by infrastructure developement, what type of improvement are you talking about?
and what are the infrastructure in this case?
and Paul sir, the time has changed.
technology is the way of the future.

On 8/23/22, Harish Kotian  wrote:
> Hi
>
>
> I have been staying away from this thread, as I have in past, have 
> expressed my view on this topic. This issue surfaces time and again on 
> this list.
>
>
> This is my personal take. I believe, the system should be disabled 
> centric. It should support him to bring out his potential fully.
>
>
> We should also factor in that disability occurs at different times to 
> different persons. Therefore, the time to get rehabilitated is 
> different and it cannot be preset. Besides, the level of technology 
> intervention besides the quality of technology is so very variant.
> Therefore, what is required is flexibility and spirit of accommodation.
>
>
> Yes, we know as a matter of fact, some folks resort to malpractice 
> taking undue advantage of the situation.
>
>
> The only way out is strict in vigilance. We need to call out names 
> where we know there is misdoing.We need to complaint about those 
> persons and make only them pay for it.
>
>
> Merely grumbling here and not doing the later part is doing wrong to 
> the deserving candidates. It is also alarming, the general perception 
> is altering that blind persons are abusing the system. Therefore, the
> onus   of proving that we have earned our marks is on us, by raising our
> standards that no one dares to think otherwise.
>
>
> Harish Kotian
>
>
> On 22/08/2022 20:45, ishan sangi wrote:
>> for more discussion please come on my whatsApp 
>> <https://wa.me/919462942428>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 8:41 PM ishan sangi  wrote:
>>
>>> hellow everyone
>>>
>>> this 

RE: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

[techsavi.shankar]

Pranav happy to see you after a long time. Anyway, as for the current technology
the keyboard is completely disabled for the examination tools. And the user 
cannot swich to applications including the windows default calculator.
Practically speaking, I have seen most of the times though we have a sufficient 
ram, hdd/ssd, screen readers stops behaving and the user tries for the 
troubleshooting 



-Original Message-
From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in  On Behalf 
Of Pranav Lal
Sent: 24 August 2022 06:01
To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
Subject: RE: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 
'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

Hi Shankar,

I speak from experience having taken computer-based exams.  It is hard to say 
about extra time, therefore let us get it  but you do not need to develop any 
kind of calculator. The software exists.

Pranav
-Original Message-
From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in  On Behalf 
Of techsavi.shan...@gmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2022 11:00 PM
To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
Subject: RE: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 
'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

Also, the time limits must extended for the screen reader users for calculating 
the mathematical expressions, budget friendly, special talking calculators must 
introduce in the market.
A person must hire for the technology troubleshooting in the examination sender.

-Original Message-
From: techsavi.shan...@gmail.com 
Sent: 23 August 2022 22:49
To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
Subject: RE: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 
'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

Don’t know about the past generations, but, if you ask me now, each and every 
student must introduced with the screen readers and other technologies from the 
standard 1 in all the integrated plus special schools.
When the student reach standard 5, they should be able to access to internet to 
find the information themselves without depending on the others.
And talking about the examination tool,
A group of people from our community can develop the proto type tool and can 
give the demo on the same to the examination authorities and need to convince 
about the myths and misconception's on accessibility.

-Original Message-
From: 'PAUL MUDDHA' via AccessIndia 
Sent: 23 August 2022 14:30
To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
Subject: RE: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 
'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

Yes, times have changed and so as technology too.
But how many vi students can afford to have computers and learn technology in 
quick time?

I am only telling that before exploring to give exams in systems, have 
practical knowledge to do the exercises rather than struggling during exams.
Cheers


DR. PAUL MUDDHA
DIVISIONAL MANAGER
Marketing & Public Relations Wing
Head Office Annex ground Floor
2nd Cross, Gandhi Nagar Bangalore – 560009 PH NO :080 22207594


-Original Message-
From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in  On Behalf 
Of anirudh rao
Sent: 23 August 2022 13:22
To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
Subject: Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 
'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

CAUTION: This email is originated from outside Canara Bank. Do not click any 
links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know that the 
content is safe.

hi Ishan,
you have well pointed out the flaws in both the systems.
but, you have not given any suggestions to improve the same.
by infrastructure developement, what type of improvement are you talking about?
and what are the infrastructure in this case?
and Paul sir, the time has changed.
technology is the way of the future.

On 8/23/22, Harish Kotian  wrote:
> Hi
>
>
> I have been staying away from this thread, as I have in past, have 
> expressed my view on this topic. This issue surfaces time and again on 
> this list.
>
>
> This is my personal take. I believe, the system should be disabled 
> centric. It should support him to bring out his potential fully.
>
>
> We should also factor in that disability occurs at different times to 
> different persons. Therefore, the time to get rehabilitated is 
> different and it cannot be preset. Besides, the level of technology 
> intervention besides the quality of technology is so very variant.
> Therefore, what is required is flexibility and spirit of accommodation.
>
>
> Yes, we know as a matter of fact, some folks resort to malpractice 
> taking undue advantage of the situation.
>
>
> The only way out is strict in vigilance. We need to call out names 
> where we know there is misdoing.We need to complaint about those 
> persons and make only them pay for 

Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

[Harshit Lohia]

Hi Access Indians,
I also want to put forward my views. Although the solution which I am
suggesting is a stop-gap arrangement and curtails malpractices only
partially, it can be a good beginning in this direction without
brushing many feathers in the influential circles. I suggest that
initially, say for 2-3 years, written exam (both online and
pen-and-paper mode) should continue the way they are. Intervention can
be after that.
1. For jobs requiring interview, at the time of interview candidates
should be provided a computer with screen-reader of their choice
(which can be declared by candidate at the time of filling the form).
An audio recording of a passage (say of 100 words) should be given and
the candidate should be made to type the same independently using
screen-reader. This will test the basic computer proficiency of the
candidate and basic language skills such as grammer and spellings.
2. For jobs not requiring interview, the candidate can be given the
flexibility of taking this test either on braille or computer. This
flexibility is to take care of less priviledged but deserving blind
candidates.
The above test will not rule out the scribe business completely but
totally undeserving blind candidates will be weeded out and it can be
a good starter. It will also give a signal in the market that the
government and the industry is keen on addressing these issues.


On 8/23/22, ishan sangi  wrote:
> Dear list members
>
> I hope you are doing great
>
> I haven't discussed any solution in my previous mails because
>
> I am writing a proper case and its solution so that I can share it with
> everyone over this list
> Although I support technological intervention in exams but don't you think
> it is possible to do cheating in exam
> With the help of computers and laptops
> And introducing technology in examination hall is not that much  easy it
> requires lot of changes starting from software development to paper setting
> and lots of homework because in this case we can't leave any stone unturn
> and as we know  everything is subjective to person to person however I do
> support technology and human interaction in exams and will send my opinion
> very soon
>
> Regards
> Ishan jain
> Student of Indian institute of management Indore
> Alumni Of the kirorimal college University of Delhi
> Co-founder of escafate edtech
>
> On Tue, Aug 23, 2022, 2:30 PM 'PAUL MUDDHA' via AccessIndia <
> accessindia@accessindia.org.in> wrote:
>
>> Yes, times have changed and so as technology too.
>> But how many vi students can afford to have computers and learn
>> technology
>> in quick time?
>>
>> I am only telling that before exploring to give exams in systems, have
>> practical knowledge to do the exercises rather than struggling during
>> exams.
>> Cheers
>>
>>
>> DR. PAUL MUDDHA
>> DIVISIONAL MANAGER
>> Marketing & Public Relations Wing
>> Head Office Annex ground Floor
>> 2nd Cross, Gandhi Nagar Bangalore – 560009
>> PH NO :080 22207594
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in  On
>> Behalf Of anirudh rao
>> Sent: 23 August 2022 13:22
>> To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
>> Subject: Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is
>> Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?
>>
>> CAUTION: This email is originated from outside Canara Bank. Do not click
>> any links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know
>> that
>> the content is safe.
>>
>> hi Ishan,
>> you have well pointed out the flaws in both the systems.
>> but, you have not given any suggestions to improve the same.
>> by infrastructure developement, what type of improvement are you talking
>> about?
>> and what are the infrastructure in this case?
>> and Paul sir, the time has changed.
>> technology is the way of the future.
>>
>> On 8/23/22, Harish Kotian  wrote:
>> > Hi
>> >
>> >
>> > I have been staying away from this thread, as I have in past, have
>> > expressed my view on this topic. This issue surfaces time and again on
>> > this list.
>> >
>> >
>> > This is my personal take. I believe, the system should be disabled
>> > centric. It should support him to bring out his potential fully.
>> >
>> >
>> > We should also factor in that disability occurs at different times to
>> > different persons. Therefore, the time to get rehabilitated is
>> > different and it cannot be preset. Besides, the level of technology
>> > intervention besides the quality of te

Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

[anirudh rao]

hi Harish,
I clearly understood your point.

On 8/23/22, Harshit Lohia  wrote:
> Hi Access Indians,
> I also want to put forward my views. Although the solution which I am
> suggesting is a stop-gap arrangement and curtails malpractices only
> partially, it can be a good beginning in this direction without
> brushing many feathers in the influential circles. I suggest that
> initially, say for 2-3 years, written exam (both online and
> pen-and-paper mode) should continue the way they are. Intervention can
> be after that.
> 1. For jobs requiring interview, at the time of interview candidates
> should be provided a computer with screen-reader of their choice
> (which can be declared by candidate at the time of filling the form).
> An audio recording of a passage (say of 100 words) should be given and
> the candidate should be made to type the same independently using
> screen-reader. This will test the basic computer proficiency of the
> candidate and basic language skills such as grammer and spellings.
> 2. For jobs not requiring interview, the candidate can be given the
> flexibility of taking this test either on braille or computer. This
> flexibility is to take care of less priviledged but deserving blind
> candidates.
> The above test will not rule out the scribe business completely but
> totally undeserving blind candidates will be weeded out and it can be
> a good starter. It will also give a signal in the market that the
> government and the industry is keen on addressing these issues.
>
>
> On 8/23/22, ishan sangi  wrote:
>> Dear list members
>>
>> I hope you are doing great
>>
>> I haven't discussed any solution in my previous mails because
>>
>> I am writing a proper case and its solution so that I can share it with
>> everyone over this list
>> Although I support technological intervention in exams but don't you
>> think
>> it is possible to do cheating in exam
>> With the help of computers and laptops
>> And introducing technology in examination hall is not that much  easy it
>> requires lot of changes starting from software development to paper
>> setting
>> and lots of homework because in this case we can't leave any stone unturn
>> and as we know  everything is subjective to person to person however I do
>> support technology and human interaction in exams and will send my
>> opinion
>> very soon
>>
>> Regards
>> Ishan jain
>> Student of Indian institute of management Indore
>> Alumni Of the kirorimal college University of Delhi
>> Co-founder of escafate edtech
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 23, 2022, 2:30 PM 'PAUL MUDDHA' via AccessIndia <
>> accessindia@accessindia.org.in> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, times have changed and so as technology too.
>>> But how many vi students can afford to have computers and learn
>>> technology
>>> in quick time?
>>>
>>> I am only telling that before exploring to give exams in systems, have
>>> practical knowledge to do the exercises rather than struggling during
>>> exams.
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>>
>>> DR. PAUL MUDDHA
>>> DIVISIONAL MANAGER
>>> Marketing & Public Relations Wing
>>> Head Office Annex ground Floor
>>> 2nd Cross, Gandhi Nagar Bangalore – 560009
>>> PH NO :080 22207594
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in  On
>>> Behalf Of anirudh rao
>>> Sent: 23 August 2022 13:22
>>> To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
>>> Subject: Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is
>>> Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?
>>>
>>> CAUTION: This email is originated from outside Canara Bank. Do not click
>>> any links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know
>>> that
>>> the content is safe.
>>>
>>> hi Ishan,
>>> you have well pointed out the flaws in both the systems.
>>> but, you have not given any suggestions to improve the same.
>>> by infrastructure developement, what type of improvement are you talking
>>> about?
>>> and what are the infrastructure in this case?
>>> and Paul sir, the time has changed.
>>> technology is the way of the future.
>>>
>>> On 8/23/22, Harish Kotian  wrote:
>>> > Hi
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > I have been staying away from this thread, as I have in past, have
>>> > expressed my view on this topic. This issue surfaces time and again on
>>>

Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

[avinash shahi]

India <
>>> accessindia@accessindia.org.in> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yes, times have changed and so as technology too.
>>>> But how many vi students can afford to have computers and learn
>>>> technology
>>>> in quick time?
>>>>
>>>> I am only telling that before exploring to give exams in systems, have
>>>> practical knowledge to do the exercises rather than struggling during
>>>> exams.
>>>> Cheers
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> DR. PAUL MUDDHA
>>>> DIVISIONAL MANAGER
>>>> Marketing & Public Relations Wing
>>>> Head Office Annex ground Floor
>>>> 2nd Cross, Gandhi Nagar Bangalore – 560009
>>>> PH NO :080 22207594
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in 
>>>> On
>>>> Behalf Of anirudh rao
>>>> Sent: 23 August 2022 13:22
>>>> To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
>>>> Subject: Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is
>>>> Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?
>>>>
>>>> CAUTION: This email is originated from outside Canara Bank. Do not
>>>> click
>>>> any links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know
>>>> that
>>>> the content is safe.
>>>>
>>>> hi Ishan,
>>>> you have well pointed out the flaws in both the systems.
>>>> but, you have not given any suggestions to improve the same.
>>>> by infrastructure developement, what type of improvement are you
>>>> talking
>>>> about?
>>>> and what are the infrastructure in this case?
>>>> and Paul sir, the time has changed.
>>>> technology is the way of the future.
>>>>
>>>> On 8/23/22, Harish Kotian  wrote:
>>>> > Hi
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > I have been staying away from this thread, as I have in past, have
>>>> > expressed my view on this topic. This issue surfaces time and again
>>>> > on
>>>> > this list.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > This is my personal take. I believe, the system should be disabled
>>>> > centric. It should support him to bring out his potential fully.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > We should also factor in that disability occurs at different times to
>>>> > different persons. Therefore, the time to get rehabilitated is
>>>> > different and it cannot be preset. Besides, the level of technology
>>>> > intervention besides the quality of technology is so very variant.
>>>> > Therefore, what is required is flexibility and spirit of
>>>> > accommodation.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Yes, we know as a matter of fact, some folks resort to malpractice
>>>> > taking undue advantage of the situation.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > The only way out is strict in vigilance. We need to call out names
>>>> > where we know there is misdoing.We need to complaint about those
>>>> > persons and make only them pay for it.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Merely grumbling here and not doing the later part is doing wrong to
>>>> > the deserving candidates. It is also alarming, the general perception
>>>> > is altering that blind persons are abusing the system. Therefore, the
>>>> > onus   of proving that we have earned our marks is on us, by raising
>>>> > our
>>>> > standards that no one dares to think otherwise.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Harish Kotian
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > On 22/08/2022 20:45, ishan sangi wrote:
>>>> >> for more discussion please come on my whatsApp
>>>> >> <https://wa.me/919462942428>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 8:41 PM ishan sangi 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> hellow everyone
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> this is my 2nd mail on this topic
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> let me share some cases with you all after there are some questions
>>>> >>> which I need answers from all of you
>>>> >>>
>>>> &

Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

[Amena Kanchwala]

> >>> I am only telling that before exploring to give exams in systems, have
> >>> practical knowledge to do the exercises rather than struggling during
> >>> exams.
> >>> Cheers
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> DR. PAUL MUDDHA
> >>> DIVISIONAL MANAGER
> >>> Marketing & Public Relations Wing
> >>> Head Office Annex ground Floor
> >>> 2nd Cross, Gandhi Nagar Bangalore – 560009
> >>> PH NO :080 22207594
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -Original Message-
> >>> From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in 
> On
> >>> Behalf Of anirudh rao
> >>> Sent: 23 August 2022 13:22
> >>> To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
> >>> Subject: Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is
> >>> Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?
> >>>
> >>> CAUTION: This email is originated from outside Canara Bank. Do not
> click
> >>> any links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know
> >>> that
> >>> the content is safe.
> >>>
> >>> hi Ishan,
> >>> you have well pointed out the flaws in both the systems.
> >>> but, you have not given any suggestions to improve the same.
> >>> by infrastructure developement, what type of improvement are you
> talking
> >>> about?
> >>> and what are the infrastructure in this case?
> >>> and Paul sir, the time has changed.
> >>> technology is the way of the future.
> >>>
> >>> On 8/23/22, Harish Kotian  wrote:
> >>> > Hi
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > I have been staying away from this thread, as I have in past, have
> >>> > expressed my view on this topic. This issue surfaces time and again
> on
> >>> > this list.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > This is my personal take. I believe, the system should be disabled
> >>> > centric. It should support him to bring out his potential fully.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > We should also factor in that disability occurs at different times to
> >>> > different persons. Therefore, the time to get rehabilitated is
> >>> > different and it cannot be preset. Besides, the level of technology
> >>> > intervention besides the quality of technology is so very variant.
> >>> > Therefore, what is required is flexibility and spirit of
> >>> > accommodation.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > Yes, we know as a matter of fact, some folks resort to malpractice
> >>> > taking undue advantage of the situation.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > The only way out is strict in vigilance. We need to call out names
> >>> > where we know there is misdoing.We need to complaint about those
> >>> > persons and make only them pay for it.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > Merely grumbling here and not doing the later part is doing wrong to
> >>> > the deserving candidates. It is also alarming, the general perception
> >>> > is altering that blind persons are abusing the system. Therefore, the
> >>> > onus   of proving that we have earned our marks is on us, by raising
> >>> > our
> >>> > standards that no one dares to think otherwise.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > Harish Kotian
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > On 22/08/2022 20:45, ishan sangi wrote:
> >>> >> for more discussion please come on my whatsApp
> >>> >> <https://wa.me/919462942428>
> >>> >>
> >>> >> On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 8:41 PM ishan sangi 
> >>> wrote:
> >>> >>
> >>> >>> hellow everyone
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> this is my 2nd mail on this topic
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> let me share some cases with you all after there are some questions
> >>> >>> which I need answers from all of you
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> case 1.
> >>> >>> a student of class x who is  blind he prepare for his class x exam
> >>> >>> and he was sure that  he will score well in Exams. on the day of
> >>> >>> exam the bord give 

Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

[Muhammad Mishbahul]

m software development to paper
>> >> setting
>> >> and lots of homework because in this case we can't leave any stone unturn
>> >> and as we know  everything is subjective to person to person however I do
>> >> support technology and human interaction in exams and will send my
>> >> opinion
>> >> very soon
>> >>
>> >> Regards
>> >> Ishan jain
>> >> Student of Indian institute of management Indore
>> >> Alumni Of the kirorimal college University of Delhi
>> >> Co-founder of escafate edtech
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Aug 23, 2022, 2:30 PM 'PAUL MUDDHA' via AccessIndia <
>> >> accessindia@accessindia.org.in> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Yes, times have changed and so as technology too.
>> >>> But how many vi students can afford to have computers and learn
>> >>> technology
>> >>> in quick time?
>> >>>
>> >>> I am only telling that before exploring to give exams in systems, have
>> >>> practical knowledge to do the exercises rather than struggling during
>> >>> exams.
>> >>> Cheers
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> DR. PAUL MUDDHA
>> >>> DIVISIONAL MANAGER
>> >>> Marketing & Public Relations Wing
>> >>> Head Office Annex ground Floor
>> >>> 2nd Cross, Gandhi Nagar Bangalore – 560009
>> >>> PH NO :080 22207594
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> -Original Message-
>> >>> From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in  On
>> >>> Behalf Of anirudh rao
>> >>> Sent: 23 August 2022 13:22
>> >>> To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
>> >>> Subject: Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is
>> >>> Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?
>> >>>
>> >>> CAUTION: This email is originated from outside Canara Bank. Do not click
>> >>> any links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know
>> >>> that
>> >>> the content is safe.
>> >>>
>> >>> hi Ishan,
>> >>> you have well pointed out the flaws in both the systems.
>> >>> but, you have not given any suggestions to improve the same.
>> >>> by infrastructure developement, what type of improvement are you talking
>> >>> about?
>> >>> and what are the infrastructure in this case?
>> >>> and Paul sir, the time has changed.
>> >>> technology is the way of the future.
>> >>>
>> >>> On 8/23/22, Harish Kotian  wrote:
>> >>> > Hi
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > I have been staying away from this thread, as I have in past, have
>> >>> > expressed my view on this topic. This issue surfaces time and again on
>> >>> > this list.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > This is my personal take. I believe, the system should be disabled
>> >>> > centric. It should support him to bring out his potential fully.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > We should also factor in that disability occurs at different times to
>> >>> > different persons. Therefore, the time to get rehabilitated is
>> >>> > different and it cannot be preset. Besides, the level of technology
>> >>> > intervention besides the quality of technology is so very variant.
>> >>> > Therefore, what is required is flexibility and spirit of
>> >>> > accommodation.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Yes, we know as a matter of fact, some folks resort to malpractice
>> >>> > taking undue advantage of the situation.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > The only way out is strict in vigilance. We need to call out names
>> >>> > where we know there is misdoing.We need to complaint about those
>> >>> > persons and make only them pay for it.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Merely grumbling here and not doing the later part is doing wrong to
>> >>> > the deserving candidates. It is also alarming, the general perception
>> >>> > is altering that blind persons are abusing t

Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

[vivek doddamani]

(say of 100 words) should be given and
>>> > the candidate should be made to type the same independently using
>>> > screen-reader. This will test the basic computer proficiency of the
>>> > candidate and basic language skills such as grammer and spellings.
>>> > 2. For jobs not requiring interview, the candidate can be given the
>>> > flexibility of taking this test either on braille or computer. This
>>> > flexibility is to take care of less priviledged but deserving blind
>>> > candidates.
>>> > The above test will not rule out the scribe business completely but
>>> > totally undeserving blind candidates will be weeded out and it can be
>>> > a good starter. It will also give a signal in the market that the
>>> > government and the industry is keen on addressing these issues.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On 8/23/22, ishan sangi  wrote:
>>> >> Dear list members
>>> >>
>>> >> I hope you are doing great
>>> >>
>>> >> I haven't discussed any solution in my previous mails because
>>> >>
>>> >> I am writing a proper case and its solution so that I can share it
>>> >> with
>>> >> everyone over this list
>>> >> Although I support technological intervention in exams but don't you
>>> >> think
>>> >> it is possible to do cheating in exam
>>> >> With the help of computers and laptops
>>> >> And introducing technology in examination hall is not that much  easy
>>> >> it
>>> >> requires lot of changes starting from software development to paper
>>> >> setting
>>> >> and lots of homework because in this case we can't leave any stone
>>> >> unturn
>>> >> and as we know  everything is subjective to person to person however I
>>> >> do
>>> >> support technology and human interaction in exams and will send my
>>> >> opinion
>>> >> very soon
>>> >>
>>> >> Regards
>>> >> Ishan jain
>>> >> Student of Indian institute of management Indore
>>> >> Alumni Of the kirorimal college University of Delhi
>>> >> Co-founder of escafate edtech
>>> >>
>>> >> On Tue, Aug 23, 2022, 2:30 PM 'PAUL MUDDHA' via AccessIndia <
>>> >> accessindia@accessindia.org.in> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> Yes, times have changed and so as technology too.
>>> >>> But how many vi students can afford to have computers and learn
>>> >>> technology
>>> >>> in quick time?
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I am only telling that before exploring to give exams in systems,
>>> >>> have
>>> >>> practical knowledge to do the exercises rather than struggling
>>> >>> during
>>> >>> exams.
>>> >>> Cheers
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> DR. PAUL MUDDHA
>>> >>> DIVISIONAL MANAGER
>>> >>> Marketing & Public Relations Wing
>>> >>> Head Office Annex ground Floor
>>> >>> 2nd Cross, Gandhi Nagar Bangalore – 560009
>>> >>> PH NO :080 22207594
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> -Original Message-
>>> >>> From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in 
>>> >>> On
>>> >>> Behalf Of anirudh rao
>>> >>> Sent: 23 August 2022 13:22
>>> >>> To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
>>> >>> Subject: Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates,
>>> >>> Is
>>> >>> Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?
>>> >>>
>>> >>> CAUTION: This email is originated from outside Canara Bank. Do not
>>> >>> click
>>> >>> any links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and
>>> >>> know
>>> >>> that
>>> >>> the content is safe.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> hi Ishan,
>>> >>> you have well pointed out the flaws in both the systems.
>>> >>> but, you have not given any suggestions to improve the same.
>>> >>> by infrastructure developement, what type of improvement are you
>>> >>>

Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

[anirudh rao]

t.
>>>>
>>>> On 8/23/22, Harshit Lohia  wrote:
>>>> > Hi Access Indians,
>>>> > I also want to put forward my views. Although the solution which I am
>>>> > suggesting is a stop-gap arrangement and curtails malpractices only
>>>> > partially, it can be a good beginning in this direction without
>>>> > brushing many feathers in the influential circles. I suggest that
>>>> > initially, say for 2-3 years, written exam (both online and
>>>> > pen-and-paper mode) should continue the way they are. Intervention
>>>> > can
>>>> > be after that.
>>>> > 1. For jobs requiring interview, at the time of interview candidates
>>>> > should be provided a computer with screen-reader of their choice
>>>> > (which can be declared by candidate at the time of filling the form).
>>>> > An audio recording of a passage (say of 100 words) should be given
>>>> > and
>>>> > the candidate should be made to type the same independently using
>>>> > screen-reader. This will test the basic computer proficiency of the
>>>> > candidate and basic language skills such as grammer and spellings.
>>>> > 2. For jobs not requiring interview, the candidate can be given the
>>>> > flexibility of taking this test either on braille or computer. This
>>>> > flexibility is to take care of less priviledged but deserving blind
>>>> > candidates.
>>>> > The above test will not rule out the scribe business completely but
>>>> > totally undeserving blind candidates will be weeded out and it can be
>>>> > a good starter. It will also give a signal in the market that the
>>>> > government and the industry is keen on addressing these issues.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > On 8/23/22, ishan sangi  wrote:
>>>> >> Dear list members
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I hope you are doing great
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I haven't discussed any solution in my previous mails because
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I am writing a proper case and its solution so that I can share it
>>>> >> with
>>>> >> everyone over this list
>>>> >> Although I support technological intervention in exams but don't you
>>>> >> think
>>>> >> it is possible to do cheating in exam
>>>> >> With the help of computers and laptops
>>>> >> And introducing technology in examination hall is not that much
>>>> >> easy
>>>> >> it
>>>> >> requires lot of changes starting from software development to paper
>>>> >> setting
>>>> >> and lots of homework because in this case we can't leave any stone
>>>> >> unturn
>>>> >> and as we know  everything is subjective to person to person however
>>>> >> I
>>>> >> do
>>>> >> support technology and human interaction in exams and will send my
>>>> >> opinion
>>>> >> very soon
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Regards
>>>> >> Ishan jain
>>>> >> Student of Indian institute of management Indore
>>>> >> Alumni Of the kirorimal college University of Delhi
>>>> >> Co-founder of escafate edtech
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On Tue, Aug 23, 2022, 2:30 PM 'PAUL MUDDHA' via AccessIndia <
>>>> >> accessindia@accessindia.org.in> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> Yes, times have changed and so as technology too.
>>>> >>> But how many vi students can afford to have computers and learn
>>>> >>> technology
>>>> >>> in quick time?
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> I am only telling that before exploring to give exams in systems,
>>>> >>> have
>>>> >>> practical knowledge to do the exercises rather than struggling
>>>> >>> during
>>>> >>> exams.
>>>> >>> Cheers
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> DR. PAUL MUDDHA
>>>> >>> DIVISIONAL MANAGER
>>>> >>> Marketing & Public Relations Wing
>>>> >>> Head Office Annex ground Floor
>>>> >>> 

Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

[ishan sangi]

eat
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> I haven't discussed any solution in my previous mails because
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> I am writing a proper case and its solution so that I can share it
> >>>> >> with
> >>>> >> everyone over this list
> >>>> >> Although I support technological intervention in exams but don't
> you
> >>>> >> think
> >>>> >> it is possible to do cheating in exam
> >>>> >> With the help of computers and laptops
> >>>> >> And introducing technology in examination hall is not that much
> >>>> >> easy
> >>>> >> it
> >>>> >> requires lot of changes starting from software development to paper
> >>>> >> setting
> >>>> >> and lots of homework because in this case we can't leave any stone
> >>>> >> unturn
> >>>> >> and as we know  everything is subjective to person to person
> however
> >>>> >> I
> >>>> >> do
> >>>> >> support technology and human interaction in exams and will send my
> >>>> >> opinion
> >>>> >> very soon
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> Regards
> >>>> >> Ishan jain
> >>>> >> Student of Indian institute of management Indore
> >>>> >> Alumni Of the kirorimal college University of Delhi
> >>>> >> Co-founder of escafate edtech
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> On Tue, Aug 23, 2022, 2:30 PM 'PAUL MUDDHA' via AccessIndia <
> >>>> >> accessindia@accessindia.org.in> wrote:
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>> Yes, times have changed and so as technology too.
> >>>> >>> But how many vi students can afford to have computers and learn
> >>>> >>> technology
> >>>> >>> in quick time?
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>> I am only telling that before exploring to give exams in systems,
> >>>> >>> have
> >>>> >>> practical knowledge to do the exercises rather than struggling
> >>>> >>> during
> >>>> >>> exams.
> >>>> >>> Cheers
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>> DR. PAUL MUDDHA
> >>>> >>> DIVISIONAL MANAGER
> >>>> >>> Marketing & Public Relations Wing
> >>>> >>> Head Office Annex ground Floor
> >>>> >>> 2nd Cross, Gandhi Nagar Bangalore – 560009
> >>>> >>> PH NO :080 22207594
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>> -Original Message-
> >>>> >>> From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
> >>>> >>> 
> >>>> >>> On
> >>>> >>> Behalf Of anirudh rao
> >>>> >>> Sent: 23 August 2022 13:22
> >>>> >>> To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
> >>>> >>> Subject: Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy
> Candidates,
> >>>> >>> Is
> >>>> >>> Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>> CAUTION: This email is originated from outside Canara Bank. Do not
> >>>> >>> click
> >>>> >>> any links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and
> >>>> >>> know
> >>>> >>> that
> >>>> >>> the content is safe.
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>> hi Ishan,
> >>>> >>> you have well pointed out the flaws in both the systems.
> >>>> >>> but, you have not given any suggestions to improve the same.
> >>>> >>> by infrastructure developement, what type of improvement are you
> >>>> >>> talking
> >>>> >>> about?
> >>>> >>> and what are the infrastructure in this case?
> >>>> >>> and Paul sir, the time has changed.
> >>>> >>> technology is the way of the future.
> >>>> >>>
> >>>>

Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

[Krishan kumar Sharma]

t; > be after that.
>> >>>> > 1. For jobs requiring interview, at the time of interview
>> candidates
>> >>>> > should be provided a computer with screen-reader of their choice
>> >>>> > (which can be declared by candidate at the time of filling the
>> form).
>> >>>> > An audio recording of a passage (say of 100 words) should be given
>> >>>> > and
>> >>>> > the candidate should be made to type the same independently using
>> >>>> > screen-reader. This will test the basic computer proficiency of the
>> >>>> > candidate and basic language skills such as grammer and spellings.
>> >>>> > 2. For jobs not requiring interview, the candidate can be given the
>> >>>> > flexibility of taking this test either on braille or computer. This
>> >>>> > flexibility is to take care of less priviledged but deserving blind
>> >>>> > candidates.
>> >>>> > The above test will not rule out the scribe business completely but
>> >>>> > totally undeserving blind candidates will be weeded out and it can
>> be
>> >>>> > a good starter. It will also give a signal in the market that the
>> >>>> > government and the industry is keen on addressing these issues.
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > On 8/23/22, ishan sangi  wrote:
>> >>>> >> Dear list members
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >> I hope you are doing great
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >> I haven't discussed any solution in my previous mails because
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >> I am writing a proper case and its solution so that I can share it
>> >>>> >> with
>> >>>> >> everyone over this list
>> >>>> >> Although I support technological intervention in exams but don't
>> you
>> >>>> >> think
>> >>>> >> it is possible to do cheating in exam
>> >>>> >> With the help of computers and laptops
>> >>>> >> And introducing technology in examination hall is not that much
>> >>>> >> easy
>> >>>> >> it
>> >>>> >> requires lot of changes starting from software development to
>> paper
>> >>>> >> setting
>> >>>> >> and lots of homework because in this case we can't leave any stone
>> >>>> >> unturn
>> >>>> >> and as we know  everything is subjective to person to person
>> however
>> >>>> >> I
>> >>>> >> do
>> >>>> >> support technology and human interaction in exams and will send my
>> >>>> >> opinion
>> >>>> >> very soon
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >> Regards
>> >>>> >> Ishan jain
>> >>>> >> Student of Indian institute of management Indore
>> >>>> >> Alumni Of the kirorimal college University of Delhi
>> >>>> >> Co-founder of escafate edtech
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >> On Tue, Aug 23, 2022, 2:30 PM 'PAUL MUDDHA' via AccessIndia <
>> >>>> >> accessindia@accessindia.org.in> wrote:
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >>> Yes, times have changed and so as technology too.
>> >>>> >>> But how many vi students can afford to have computers and learn
>> >>>> >>> technology
>> >>>> >>> in quick time?
>> >>>> >>>
>> >>>> >>> I am only telling that before exploring to give exams in systems,
>> >>>> >>> have
>> >>>> >>> practical knowledge to do the exercises rather than struggling
>> >>>> >>> during
>> >>>> >>> exams.
>> >>>> >>> Cheers
>> >>>> >>>
>> >>>> >>>
>> >>>> >>> DR. PAUL MUDDHA
>> >>>> >>> DIVISIONAL MANAGER
>> >>>> >>> Marketing & Public Relations Wing
>> >>>> >>> Head Office Annex ground Floor

Re: [AI] From Charging Lakhs to Offering Proxy Candidates, Is Exam 'Scribe Service' Turning Into 'Business'?

[Krishan kumar Sharma]

t;> hi Harish,
>>> >>>> I clearly understood your point.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> On 8/23/22, Harshit Lohia  wrote:
>>> >>>> > Hi Access Indians,
>>> >>>> > I also want to put forward my views. Although the solution which
>>> I am
>>> >>>> > suggesting is a stop-gap arrangement and curtails malpractices
>>> only
>>> >>>> > partially, it can be a good beginning in this direction without
>>> >>>> > brushing many feathers in the influential circles. I suggest that
>>> >>>> > initially, say for 2-3 years, written exam (both online and
>>> >>>> > pen-and-paper mode) should continue the way they are. Intervention
>>> >>>> > can
>>> >>>> > be after that.
>>> >>>> > 1. For jobs requiring interview, at the time of interview
>>> candidates
>>> >>>> > should be provided a computer with screen-reader of their choice
>>> >>>> > (which can be declared by candidate at the time of filling the
>>> form).
>>> >>>> > An audio recording of a passage (say of 100 words) should be given
>>> >>>> > and
>>> >>>> > the candidate should be made to type the same independently using
>>> >>>> > screen-reader. This will test the basic computer proficiency of
>>> the
>>> >>>> > candidate and basic language skills such as grammer and spellings.
>>> >>>> > 2. For jobs not requiring interview, the candidate can be given
>>> the
>>> >>>> > flexibility of taking this test either on braille or computer.
>>> This
>>> >>>> > flexibility is to take care of less priviledged but deserving
>>> blind
>>> >>>> > candidates.
>>> >>>> > The above test will not rule out the scribe business completely
>>> but
>>> >>>> > totally undeserving blind candidates will be weeded out and it
>>> can be
>>> >>>> > a good starter. It will also give a signal in the market that the
>>> >>>> > government and the industry is keen on addressing these issues.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > On 8/23/22, ishan sangi  wrote:
>>> >>>> >> Dear list members
>>> >>>> >>
>>> >>>> >> I hope you are doing great
>>> >>>> >>
>>> >>>> >> I haven't discussed any solution in my previous mails because
>>> >>>> >>
>>> >>>> >> I am writing a proper case and its solution so that I can share
>>> it
>>> >>>> >> with
>>> >>>> >> everyone over this list
>>> >>>> >> Although I support technological intervention in exams but don't
>>> you
>>> >>>> >> think
>>> >>>> >> it is possible to do cheating in exam
>>> >>>> >> With the help of computers and laptops
>>> >>>> >> And introducing technology in examination hall is not that much
>>> >>>> >> easy
>>> >>>> >> it
>>> >>>> >> requires lot of changes starting from software development to
>>> paper
>>> >>>> >> setting
>>> >>>> >> and lots of homework because in this case we can't leave any
>>> stone
>>> >>>> >> unturn
>>> >>>> >> and as we know  everything is subjective to person to person
>>> however
>>> >>>> >> I
>>> >>>> >> do
>>> >>>> >> support technology and human interaction in exams and will send
>>> my
>>> >>>> >> opinion
>>> >>>> >> very soon
>>> >>>> >>
>>> >>>> >> Regards
>>> >>>> >> Ishan jain
>>> >>>> >> Student of Indian institute of management Indore
>>> >>>> >> Alumni Of the kirorimal college University of Delhi
>>> >>>> >> Co-founder of escafate edtech
>>> >>>> >>
>>> >>>&