Re: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political

[Dennis Burgess]

Or that other person can ware the condom since they are so afraid of it, or 
maybe they should not be out in public?


[LTI-Full_175px]
Dennis Burgess

Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
Office: 314-735-0270  Website: 
http://www.linktechs.net
Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com
Need MikroTik Cloud Management: https://cloud.linktechs.net

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2021 6:20 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political

AIDS was / Is 100% avoidable.  COVID is like someone with AIDS spraying you 
down with their precious bodily fluids by sneezing.  People have been 
prosecuted for infecting others with AIDS.  Why not COVID?  If you don’t want 
the vax, fine but you need a full body condom if you come within 100’ of 
another person.
Sent from my iPhone


On Jul 23, 2021, at 4:24 PM, David Coudron 
mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com>> wrote:

There are valid reasons for deciding to take this vaccine, the shingles 
vaccine, the flu vaccine, or a myriad of other medications.   Each decision 
should be based on risk/reward of that drug and the medical condition being 
treated.   To think that you know everyone’s medical situation better than they 
do doesn’t seem very feasible and awfully presumptive.   To call them selfish 
for making a decision they believe is in their best medical interest seems 
overly judgmental. Yes, there are people are deciding not to take it simply 
because they think they shouldn’t be forced to take a medical treatment against 
their will.   You may feel that we should force them to take the treatment for 
the better good.   I doubt you would feel the same about mandatory castration 
of young men to curb overcrowding of the earth.   Obviously there is a line 
somewhere about forced treatment for the greater good.  I am not attempting to 
determine where that line is, only suggesting that folks have valid medical 
reasons for not deciding to take the vaccine and they shouldn’t be publicly 
shamed for making that decision.   It doesn’t seem that far fetched, but I am 
learning I see things differently than some other folks.   So be it.

I love the argument that we have to get vaccinated, but we still have to act 
like the vaccine doesn’t work in order to save the human race.   Seems like a 
disconnect there.

If we were really so worried about infecting others or causing harm to others, 
we would avoid all other activities that create risk for others.  We’d never 
drive a car, much less have a beer and get in a car.   I doubt that very many 
of us on this list can say that.  We would never allow the sale of fatty foods. 
  We would force each and everyone to get to a body mass within our accepted 
range.   Keep in mind life is risky.   We don’t need to do stupid things, but 
being alive carries with it the risk of dying.We are all much more likely 
to die of heart disease, stroke related illness, or cancer than we are of 
Covid.   Those are just the facts.  Many folks make small adjustments to reduce 
the risk of those  likely causes of mortality, but have long ago passed on 
decisions to make big changes to eliminate the possibility of those causes of 
death.

I have long ago decided not to live in constant fear of these things.   While I 
chose to be vaccinated, I respect the right of folks to make the best choice 
for their situation.   I also respect the right of someone who is not in the 
best physical condition to eat a steak.   I realize that a drunk driver might 
kill me some day, but I respect the right of individuals to go to a bar and 
expect that most (but not all) are responsible enough not to drink and drive 
when they have had too much.

Keep in mind that this virus would have never come to our country if we never 
allowed anyone in or out of it.   But we understand that certain personal 
freedoms are worth the possibility of catching a disease that might kill us.   
I have a tough time with the mass hypochondria surrounding this situation.

Sorry, I am not meaning to make anyone mad, just trying to keep perspective.
 I just don’t understand why folks get so bent out of shape if they are already 
vaccinated.   I guess they don’t believe the vaccine will work because if it 
does, there is nothing to worry about.

I wager that given Covid’s relation to influenza like viruses, that it is with 
us permanently.   We will have yearly updates to the vaccination, but we’ll 
never be rid of it.   Not because people aren’t getting vaccinated, but because 
it will always mutate ahead of the vaccine, just like the flu virus.   Please 
don’t take this as an argument to not work on vaccines, we absolutely should as 
it will save lives.   But as Carl pointed out below, vaccines aren’t 100% 
effective……. 😊

I will lay a friendly wager down.  Remember, we had a AIDS epide

Re: [AFMUG] DFS in DC

[Brian Webster]

If one has studied the whole DFS issue, the Washington DC area would be the 
highest of likelihood of getting hits and taking the radios off those channels. 
DFS channels are shared with governmental (DOD, Military etc.) users. With 
locations like Andrews AFB (The home of Air Force One) then you are very much 
more likely of having hits from airborne units. TDWR is a separate issue and 
technically is not part of the DFS problem. TDWR is actually in permitted 
channels even before the band DFS was allowed. If an operator is near a TDWR 
facility (remembering these are super sensitive RADAR units with massive gain 
very directional antennas) then a WISP is not allowed to operate on that 
frequency for that RADAR unit.  Avoiding DFS channels does not avoid TDWR 
frequencies. Two separate issues.

 

DFS approved radios are approved to be able to recognize radio patterns 
provided by the NTIA so they can detect a likely military or governmental radio 
system and shut down/move off frequency. The industry was never told what types 
or any specifics of systems operating on these frequencies. Not even if they 
were ground based or airborne units or both. 

 

Thank you,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2021 2:02 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DFS in DC

 

TDWR is also likely the least of one's concerns in DFS in terms of likelyhood 
to be impacted by.

 

Military use is the primary use of the band.

There are also dozens if not hundreds of private weather radars across the 
country using the 5 GHz band.



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 




  _  

From: "Zach Underwood" 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2021 12:51:38 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] DFS in DC

After getting more than a few hits at our DC MDU sites I looked up the TDWR and 
it looks like there are 4 TDWR within range of DC. I have since disabled DFS 
channels at our DC sites but wow. 

 

 Andrews Air Force Base (ADW), MD

 Baltimore/Wash (BWI), MD

 Dulles (IAD), VA 


 Washington National (DCA), MD  

-- 

Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)

My website  

advance-networking.com


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Re: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political

[Darin Steffl]

Dennis,

At this point, those are want the vaccine have it and feel protected. I
believe in its effectiveness and am not afraid to go out.

The problem we keep bringing up is half of America is not vaccinated yet.
Cases are spiking, ICU beds are filling up, and deaths are increasing.

When this happens, state governments have NO CHOICE but to implement
shutdowns and mask mandates again because hospitals must have ICU beds
available for every other health emergency besides covid.

How would you feel if the ICU at your local hospital was full of covid
patients while your family gets in a car crash and there's no staff or beds
available to save you?! That's what will happen if people don't get the
vaccine.

I keep saying this to people: the people who hate covid or thinks it's a
hoax, people who are anti-vax and anti-mask are the people keeping covid
around longer by not doing anything to stop it. If they refuse to
vaccinate, mask up, social distance, or even practice proper hygiene, then
covid will be around much longer and we will have shutdowns again with
business closures and mask mandates.

So no, I think vaccinated individuals should have all the freedom to live
their life. Then unvaccinated Americans should have to pay for tests, skip
big events, and mask up when out in public for their "choice" to not
vaccinate. Every choice has consequences and being anti-vax is un-American
at this point (unless legit medical reasons prevent it in your doctor's
opinion). Do your part to stop the spread or the anti-vax people will
literally shut our country down again and the blame will be all on them.

On Mon, Jul 26, 2021, 7:03 AM Dennis Burgess 
wrote:

> Or that other person can ware the condom since they are so afraid of it,
> or maybe they should not be out in public?
>
>
>
>
>
> *[image: LTI-Full_175px]*
>
> *Dennis Burgess*
>
>
> Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
>
> *Link Technologies, Inc* -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>
> *Office*: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net
>
> Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com
>
> Need MikroTik Cloud Management: https://cloud.linktechs.net
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Friday, July 23, 2021 6:20 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political
>
>
>
> AIDS was / Is 100% avoidable.  COVID is like someone with AIDS spraying
> you down with their precious bodily fluids by sneezing.  People have been
> prosecuted for infecting others with AIDS.  Why not COVID?  If you don’t
> want the vax, fine but you need a full body condom if you come within 100’
> of another person.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On Jul 23, 2021, at 4:24 PM, David Coudron 
> wrote:
>
> 
>
> There are valid reasons for deciding to take this vaccine, the shingles
> vaccine, the flu vaccine, or a myriad of other medications.   Each decision
> should be based on risk/reward of that drug and the medical condition being
> treated.   To think that you know everyone’s medical situation better than
> they do doesn’t seem very feasible and awfully presumptive.   To call them
> selfish for making a decision they believe is in their best medical
> interest seems overly judgmental. Yes, there are people are deciding
> not to take it simply because they think they shouldn’t be forced to take a
> medical treatment against their will.   You may feel that we should force
> them to take the treatment for the better good.   I doubt you would feel
> the same about mandatory castration of young men to curb overcrowding of
> the earth.   Obviously there is a line somewhere about forced treatment for
> the greater good.  I am not attempting to determine where that line is,
> only suggesting that folks have valid medical reasons for not deciding to
> take the vaccine and they shouldn’t be publicly shamed for making that
> decision.   It doesn’t seem that far fetched, but I am learning I see
> things differently than some other folks.   So be it.
>
>
>
> I love the argument that we have to get vaccinated, but we still have to
> act like the vaccine doesn’t work in order to save the human race.   Seems
> like a disconnect there.
>
>
>
> If we were really so worried about infecting others or causing harm to
> others, we would avoid all other activities that create risk for others.
> We’d never drive a car, much less have a beer and get in a car.   I doubt
> that very many of us on this list can say that.  We would never allow the
> sale of fatty foods.   We would force each and everyone to get to a body
> mass within our accepted range.   Keep in mind life is risky.   We don’t
> need to do stupid things, but being alive carries with it the risk of
> dying.We are all much more likely to die of heart disease, stroke
> related illness, or cancer than we are of Covid.   Those are just the
> facts.  Many folks make small adjustments to reduce the risk of those
> likely causes of mortality,

Re: [AFMUG] list traffic

[Josh Luthman]

That's absolutely not true.  All of our gig links are cat5e.  Cat6 may or
may not help, but it absolutely is not a requirement.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Thu, Jul 22, 2021 at 6:25 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> $$$
> Lol...
> My post was about someone suggesting that Cambium Force 300 only gets
> 1gbps on LAN port when you use Cat6 cabling...
> I don't this that is true...
>
> On Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 3:58 PM James Howard  wrote:
>
>> Wait a minute.  You got kick back for sending an email?  How do we all
>> get in on that?
>>
>>
>>
>> On a serious note though, the last email I saw before this afternoon was
>> one from Bill at 11:19am (Central) on Monday commenting on Chuck’s shrimp
>> deprivation.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Jaime Solorza
>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 22, 2021 4:30 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] list traffic
>>
>>
>>
>> I sent one two days ago and it was kicked back
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 2:45 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>> The server dashboard looks normal but I have not received anything since
>> Sunday.  Perhaps something is scraping off at my end.
>>
>> If anyone sees this in the next few hours of 7/21/21 9:59 mountain
>> daylight time, please reply directly to me: ch...@go-mtc.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
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>>
>> --
>>
>> *Total Control Panel*
>>
>> Login 
>>
>> To: ja...@litewire.net
>> 
>>
>> From: af-boun...@af.afmug.com
>>
>> *You received this message because the domain afmug.com
>>  is on your allow list.*
>>
>>
>> --
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>>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] list traffic

[dave via AF]

I have had trouble cat5e over time where the cable speeds fade 
especially over longer distance but currently Cat6 does seem to be 
holding its own.

If the radio has a sfp port we use it.


On 7/26/21 8:57 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
That's absolutely not true.  All of our gig links are cat5e.  Cat6 may 
or may not help, but it absolutely is not a requirement.


Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Thu, Jul 22, 2021 at 6:25 PM Jaime Solorza 
mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>> wrote:


$$$
Lol...
My post was about someone suggesting that Cambium Force 300 only
gets 1gbps on LAN port when you use Cat6 cabling...
I don't this that is true...

On Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 3:58 PM James Howard mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:

Wait a minute.  You got kick back for sending an email?  How
do we all get in on that?

On a serious note though, the last email I saw before this
afternoon was one from Bill at 11:19am (Central) on Monday
commenting on Chuck’s shrimp deprivation.

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of * Jaime Solorza
*Sent:* Thursday, July 22, 2021 4:30 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] list traffic

I sent one two days ago and it was kicked back

On Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 2:45 PM Chuck McCown via AF
mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> wrote:

The server dashboard looks normal but I have not received
anything since Sunday.  Perhaps something is scraping off
at my end.

If anyone sees this in the next few hours of 7/21/21 9:59
mountain daylight time, please reply directly to me:
ch...@go-mtc.com 

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AF mailing list

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Login 

To: ja...@litewire.net



From: af-boun...@af.afmug.com 



/You received this message because the domain afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] T-Mobile PALs and CBRS GAA

[Brian Webster]

Remember that as a GAA user just because you are in the SAS you do not have 
first in rights. The SAS only protects the licensed PAL holders. Anyone who 
shows up to play in the GAA channels has to fight among themselves the same as 
you do on any unlicensed channels.

 

I repeat, the first users on a GAA channel in the SAS have ZERO protections 
from other GAA users, even if they were already shown in the SAS as active 
registered users. The SAS will not protect you from someone else turning up 
equipment on the same GAA channel.

 

Thank you,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Craig House
Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2021 11:17 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] T-Mobile PALs and CBRS GAA

 

I’ve been seeing this thread on the list for a while but hadn’t really read it. 
Probably worth keeping in mind when we do turn our stuff on to see how much 
interference there might be

Sent from my iPhone





On Jul 25, 2021, at 10:09, Jaime Solorza  wrote:



T-Mobile took over lots of 2 and 3Ghz stuff from Sprint...maybe could be 
related to that..

 

On Sun, Jul 25, 2021, 7:45 AM Tyson Burris  wrote:

LOL, Mike you got to get in the game bro.

I typed that up half asleep as well.  

 

It’s not always that easy, but yes we have done all that.

You really think Crown, SBA, American care?

 

Crowns answer:  3ghz isn’t licensed anyone can use it plus you would need to 
contact the interfering party directly

 

Well they are partially right.  

 

Tyson Burris, President 
Internet Communications Inc. 
739 Commerce Dr. 
Franklin, IN 46131 
  
Office # 317-738-0320 
Cell/Direct # 317-412-1540 
Online:   www.surfici.net 

 

ICI

What can ICI do for you? 


Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP Cameras - 
Fiber - Towers - Infrastructure. 
  
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the 
addressee shown. It contains information that is 
confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review, 
dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by 
unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly 
prohibited. 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2021 8:59 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] T-Mobile PALs and CBRS GAA

 

I just woke up, so maybe my reading comprehension isn't the best yet.

 

 

Can't you use a spectrum analyzer to track down the sources of the interference 
and then work with the tower owner on who it is that's on that tower and 
contact information?



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 





  _  


From: "Tyson Burris" 
To: af@af.afmug.com
Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2021 5:24:25 AM
Subject: [AFMUG] T-Mobile PALs and CBRS GAA

Good morning AF Geeks-

 

Someone help me understand this better.  Several questions below.

We operate in six counties in Indiana.  Some rural some not so much.

In our main county (johnson) we are starting to get interference even when we 
are connected to the SAS.  

While we cannot prove anything yet, each tower we are seeing this on recently 
had new T-Mobile equipment deployed.  

 

I reached out to our attorney, Steve Coran, this week and asked him to pulled 
the county PAL winners. Listed here:

 

PAL winners for Johnson County, IN:

 

XF Wireless Investment, LLC (Comcast) -- 20 MHz

Actel, LLC (CenturyLink) -- 20 MHz

Wetterhorn Wireless L.L.C. (DISH) – 30 MHz

 

 

-Century Link has zero cell services of any kind in our county and currently 
not deploying in fixed wireless.

-Comcast floats off Verizon

-Dish also has zero cell services of any kind in our count

 

So what we ended up with is PAL winners who have nothing to offer locally yet 
unless subleasing.

 

Questions are:

 

is T-Mobile subleasing PAL’s from any of these three?

Is T-Mobile illegally just rotating PAL’s anywhere they want in the country 
instead of just local counties?

Anyway to clearly isolate the offending carrier sucking up so much spectrum and 
causing all the interference?

Another member brought up T-Mobile as a possible offender.  Did any data come 
from that?

What time of the day do the SAS databases sync with each other and does this 
force other carriers to cut back on total GAA – share nicely?

Has anyone found the other SAS providers to be better then GOOGLE.  Starting to 
think th

Re: [AFMUG] T-Mobile PALs and CBRS GAA

[Matt Hoppes]

What equipment are you using?  If 450 make sure you use Frame Type 2 for 
LTE Coexxistence.


Then contact your SAS who will promptly kick T-Mobile off of part of the 
GAA and allow both of you to coexist nicely.


On 7/25/21 6:24 AM, Tyson Burris wrote:

Good morning AF Geeks-

Someone help me understand this better.  Several questions below.

We operate in six counties in Indiana.  Some rural some not so much.

In our main county (johnson) we are starting to get interference even 
when we are connected to the SAS.


While we cannot prove anything yet, each tower we are seeing this on 
recently had new T-Mobile equipment deployed.


I reached out to our attorney, Steve Coran, this week and asked him to 
pulled the county PAL winners. Listed here:


PAL winners for Johnson County, IN:

XF Wireless Investment, LLC (Comcast) -- 20 MHz

Actel, LLC (CenturyLink) -- 20 MHz

Wetterhorn Wireless L.L.C. (DISH) – 30 MHz

-Century Link has zero cell services of any kind in our county and 
currently not deploying in fixed wireless.


-Comcast floats off Verizon

-Dish also has zero cell services of any kind in our count

So what we ended up with is PAL winners who have nothing to offer 
locally yet unless subleasing.


Questions are:

is T-Mobile subleasing PAL’s from any of these three?

Is T-Mobile illegally just rotating PAL’s anywhere they want in the 
country instead of just local counties?


Anyway to clearly isolate the offending carrier sucking up so much 
spectrum and causing all the interference?


Another member brought up T-Mobile as a possible offender.  Did any data 
come from that?


What time of the day do the SAS databases sync with each other and does 
this force other carriers to cut back on total GAA – share nicely?


Has anyone found the other SAS providers to be better then GOOGLE.  
Starting to think their system is worthless or inaccurate.  Truth is I 
think this whole concept of spectrum sharing is poorly handled and not 
fully tested on 3g.


If a carrier is on the same tower, how will that affect sync?  I ask 
because we found some very interesting work arounds and results with 
upload when we started playing with sync settings…ie distance, frame, 
channel.


If the customer SM is moved from one spot to another or from a roof to a 
post how badly does this affect the calculations on the SAS side?


Things we have discovered:

  * Even when we find noise floors on spectrum analysis in a reasonable
range and move to the cleaner channel on the SAS the interference
still trashes the uplinks.
  * In some cases the SAS is blocking the cleanest of channels which
could be PAL related.
  * In some cases customer SM’s going off other ‘unaffected’ sites
nearby may get knocked offline by the new noise.
  * In some cases we have had to drop off the SAS and found switching to
other regulatory has allowed us to switch to cleaner channels and
stabilized subs.  (which is exactly what we shouldn’t be doing)
  * We have a ton of 450m units going on towers as both new and
upgrades.  I am concerned that the more urban areas will struggle
with capacity since we have to break this up across multiple sectors.

History and Equipment:

Again this seems very isolated to our more urban deployments which have 
historically been awesome in the 50Mhz channels prior to CBRS turn ups.


Our more rural areas are not seeing this issue at all.

All three locations have very specific and brand new T-Mobile equipment 
so this has been our assumption of the cause without such proof.


Equipment on these commercial towers has been no more then two 450i AP’s 
with KP 120’ sectors (pending 450m upgrades).


*Tyson Burris, President**
**Internet Communications Inc.**
**739 Commerce Dr.**
**Franklin, IN 46131**
***
*Office #**317-738-0320 *
*Cell/Direct #**317-412-1540 *
*Online: **www.surfici.net*

ICI

*What can ICI do for you?*


*Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP 
Cameras - Fiber - Towers - Infrastructure.*

**
*CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
*addressee shown. It contains information that is*
*confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
*dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
*unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
*prohibited.*




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Re: [AFMUG] T-Mobile PALs and CBRS GAA

[Matt Hoppes]

This is not accurate.  Contact your SAS and they will absolutely cut the 
pie up to avoid interference... that is their job and then will do it.


We just moved Verizon around in our area so we could both exist.

On 7/26/21 10:11 AM, Brian Webster wrote:
Remember that as a GAA user just because you are in the SAS you do not 
have first in rights. The SAS only protects the licensed PAL holders. 
Anyone who shows up to play in the GAA channels has to fight among 
themselves the same as you do on any unlicensed channels.


I repeat, the first users on a GAA channel in the SAS have ZERO 
protections from other GAA users, even if they were already shown in the 
SAS as active registered users. The SAS will not protect you from 
someone else turning up equipment on the same GAA channel.


Thank you,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Craig House
*Sent:* Sunday, July 25, 2021 11:17 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] T-Mobile PALs and CBRS GAA

I’ve been seeing this thread on the list for a while but hadn’t really 
read it. Probably worth keeping in mind when we do turn our stuff on to 
see how much interference there might be


Sent from my iPhone



On Jul 25, 2021, at 10:09, Jaime Solorza  wrote:



T-Mobile took over lots of 2 and 3Ghz stuff from Sprint...maybe
could be related to that..

On Sun, Jul 25, 2021, 7:45 AM Tyson Burris mailto:t...@franklinisp.net>> wrote:

LOL, Mike you got to get in the game bro.

I typed that up half asleep as well.

It’s not always that easy, but yes we have done all that.

You really think Crown, SBA, American care?

Crowns answer:  3ghz isn’t licensed anyone can use it plus you
would need to contact the interfering party directly

Well they are partially right.

*Tyson Burris, President**
**Internet Communications Inc.**
**739 Commerce Dr.**
**Franklin, IN 46131**
***
*Office #**317-738-0320 *
*Cell/Direct #**317-412-1540 *
*Online: **www.surfici.net* 

ICI

*What can ICI do for you?*


*Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones -
IP Cameras - Fiber - Towers - Infrastructure.*
**
*CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
*addressee shown. It contains information that is*
*confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
*dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
*unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
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*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
*Sent:* Sunday, July 25, 2021 8:59 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] T-Mobile PALs and CBRS GAA

I just woke up, so maybe my reading comprehension isn't the best
yet.

Can't you use a spectrum analyzer to track down the sources of
the interference and then work with the tower owner on who it is
that's on that tower and contact information?



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 







*From: *"Tyson Burris" mailto:t...@franklinisp.net>>
*To: *af@af.afmug.com 
*Sent: *Sunday, July 25, 2021 5:24:25 AM
*Subject: *[AFMUG] T-Mobile PALs and CBRS GAA

Good morning AF Geeks-

Someone help me understand this better.  Several questions below.

We operate in six counties in Indiana.  Some rural some not so much.

In our main county (johnson) we are starting to get interference
even when we are connected to the SAS.

While we cannot prove anything yet, each tower we are seeing
this on recently had new T-Mobile equipment deployed.

I reached out to our attorney, Steve Coran, this week and asked
him to pulled the county PAL winners. Listed here:

PAL winners for Johnson County, IN:

XF Wireless Investment, LLC (Comcast) -- 20 MHz

Actel, LLC (CenturyLink) -- 20 MHz

Wetterhorn Wireless L.L.C. (DISH) – 30 MH

[AFMUG] Sonar V1 Issues

[Nate Burke]

We're being told our Sonar Instance is 'out of disk space'  They added 
disk space to the instance this morning and it started running, but it 
looks like it's down again now.  Can't get to the login page, it just 
times out.They said that a couple other instances might have been 
having the same problem.  Anyone else having Sonar V1 issues this morning?


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Re: [AFMUG] Sonar V1 Issues

[Matt Hoppes]

Nope.. I run a locally hosted version of Powercode...

I know that doesn't help you, but as Alexa says "it's always raining in 
the cloud".


On 7/26/21 11:18 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
We're being told our Sonar Instance is 'out of disk space'  They added 
disk space to the instance this morning and it started running, but it 
looks like it's down again now.  Can't get to the login page, it just 
times out.    They said that a couple other instances might have been 
having the same problem.  Anyone else having Sonar V1 issues this morning?




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Re: [AFMUG] Sonar V1 Issues

[David Coudron]

Ours seems to be functioning properly today.   We had that issue several months 
ago however,  took some time to get it corrected but was fine after that.   I 
don't know if they monitor the V1 instances very closely.   Took a few calls to 
get them serious about looking to see what our problem was back then.   Once 
they looked it was taken care.

Regards,

David Coudron
david.coud...@advantenon.com  |  Mobile: 612-991-7474
 
Advantenon, Inc.    
i...@advantenon.com  |  3500 Vicksburg Lane N, Suite 315, Plymouth, MN 55447  | 
 www.advantenon.com  |  Phone: 800-704-4720  |  Local: 612-454-1545 



-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Nate Burke
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 10:18 AM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: [AFMUG] Sonar V1 Issues

We're being told our Sonar Instance is 'out of disk space'  They added disk 
space to the instance this morning and it started running, but it looks like 
it's down again now.  Can't get to the login page, it just 
times out.They said that a couple other instances might have been 
having the same problem.  Anyone else having Sonar V1 issues this morning?

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Re: [AFMUG] Sonar V1 Issues

[Mike Hammett]

https://m.facebook.com/groups/wisptalk/permalink/1645374449126897/ 


There is at least one other person with this issue right now. 

I've heard of disk-space and other rudimentary sysadmin issues hitting Sonar 
before. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Nate Burke"  
To: "Animal Farm"  
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 10:18:07 AM 
Subject: [AFMUG] Sonar V1 Issues 

We're being told our Sonar Instance is 'out of disk space' They added 
disk space to the instance this morning and it started running, but it 
looks like it's down again now. Can't get to the login page, it just 
times out. They said that a couple other instances might have been 
having the same problem. Anyone else having Sonar V1 issues this morning? 

-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 

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Re: [AFMUG] Sonar V1 Issues

[Nate Burke]

I can't see that link, but I'll take your word for it.

I wonder if they had some logging process runaway.

On 7/26/2021 10:24 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

https://m.facebook.com/groups/wisptalk/permalink/1645374449126897/

There is at least one other person with this issue right now.

I've heard of disk-space and other rudimentary sysadmin issues hitting 
Sonar before.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"Nate Burke" 
*To: *"Animal Farm" 
*Sent: *Monday, July 26, 2021 10:18:07 AM
*Subject: *[AFMUG] Sonar V1 Issues

We're being told our Sonar Instance is 'out of disk space'  They added
disk space to the instance this morning and it started running, but it
looks like it's down again now.  Can't get to the login page, it just
times out.They said that a couple other instances might have been
having the same problem.  Anyone else having Sonar V1 issues this morning?

--
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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com





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Re: [AFMUG] Sonar V1 Issues

[Mike Hammett]

Ah, you likely have to be in the WISP Talk group to see it. 


In short, someone with similar symptoms was complaining and lots of, Sonar 
disappointment conversation. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Nate Burke"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 10:35:55 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar V1 Issues 

I can't see that link, but I'll take your word for it. 

I wonder if they had some logging process runaway. 


On 7/26/2021 10:24 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: 



https://m.facebook.com/groups/wisptalk/permalink/1645374449126897/ 


There is at least one other person with this issue right now. 

I've heard of disk-space and other rudimentary sysadmin issues hitting Sonar 
before. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Nate Burke"  
To: "Animal Farm"  
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 10:18:07 AM 
Subject: [AFMUG] Sonar V1 Issues 

We're being told our Sonar Instance is 'out of disk space' They added 
disk space to the instance this morning and it started running, but it 
looks like it's down again now. Can't get to the login page, it just 
times out. They said that a couple other instances might have been 
having the same problem. Anyone else having Sonar V1 issues this morning? 

-- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 







-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 

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Re: [AFMUG] T-Mobile PALs and CBRS GAA

[Brian Webster]

This is based on conversations with Richard Barnhart who understand this
probably as good as anyone. He did help develop the standards and SAS
requirements.

Just saying that while it's possible for the SAS to do that now, if more
users show up than there are channels there is no first in protections. Make
your business plans accordingly.

Thank you,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com

-Original Message-
From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 11:18 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group; Tyson Burris
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] T-Mobile PALs and CBRS GAA

What equipment are you using?  If 450 make sure you use Frame Type 2 for 
LTE Coexxistence.

Then contact your SAS who will promptly kick T-Mobile off of part of the 
GAA and allow both of you to coexist nicely.

On 7/25/21 6:24 AM, Tyson Burris wrote:
> Good morning AF Geeks-
> 
> Someone help me understand this better.  Several questions below.
> 
> We operate in six counties in Indiana.  Some rural some not so much.
> 
> In our main county (johnson) we are starting to get interference even 
> when we are connected to the SAS.
> 
> While we cannot prove anything yet, each tower we are seeing this on 
> recently had new T-Mobile equipment deployed.
> 
> I reached out to our attorney, Steve Coran, this week and asked him to 
> pulled the county PAL winners. Listed here:
> 
> PAL winners for Johnson County, IN:
> 
> XF Wireless Investment, LLC (Comcast) -- 20 MHz
> 
> Actel, LLC (CenturyLink) -- 20 MHz
> 
> Wetterhorn Wireless L.L.C. (DISH) – 30 MHz
> 
> -Century Link has zero cell services of any kind in our county and 
> currently not deploying in fixed wireless.
> 
> -Comcast floats off Verizon
> 
> -Dish also has zero cell services of any kind in our count
> 
> So what we ended up with is PAL winners who have nothing to offer 
> locally yet unless subleasing.
> 
> Questions are:
> 
> is T-Mobile subleasing PAL’s from any of these three?
> 
> Is T-Mobile illegally just rotating PAL’s anywhere they want in the 
> country instead of just local counties?
> 
> Anyway to clearly isolate the offending carrier sucking up so much 
> spectrum and causing all the interference?
> 
> Another member brought up T-Mobile as a possible offender.  Did any data 
> come from that?
> 
> What time of the day do the SAS databases sync with each other and does 
> this force other carriers to cut back on total GAA – share nicely?
> 
> Has anyone found the other SAS providers to be better then GOOGLE.  
> Starting to think their system is worthless or inaccurate.  Truth is I 
> think this whole concept of spectrum sharing is poorly handled and not 
> fully tested on 3g.
> 
> If a carrier is on the same tower, how will that affect sync?  I ask 
> because we found some very interesting work arounds and results with 
> upload when we started playing with sync settings…ie distance, frame, 
> channel.
> 
> If the customer SM is moved from one spot to another or from a roof to a 
> post how badly does this affect the calculations on the SAS side?
> 
> Things we have discovered:
> 
>   * Even when we find noise floors on spectrum analysis in a reasonable
> range and move to the cleaner channel on the SAS the interference
> still trashes the uplinks.
>   * In some cases the SAS is blocking the cleanest of channels which
> could be PAL related.
>   * In some cases customer SM’s going off other ‘unaffected’ sites
> nearby may get knocked offline by the new noise.
>   * In some cases we have had to drop off the SAS and found switching to
> other regulatory has allowed us to switch to cleaner channels and
> stabilized subs.  (which is exactly what we shouldn’t be doing)
>   * We have a ton of 450m units going on towers as both new and
> upgrades.  I am concerned that the more urban areas will struggle
> with capacity since we have to break this up across multiple sectors.
> 
> History and Equipment:
> 
> Again this seems very isolated to our more urban deployments which have 
> historically been awesome in the 50Mhz channels prior to CBRS turn ups.
> 
> Our more rural areas are not seeing this issue at all.
> 
> All three locations have very specific and brand new T-Mobile equipment 
> so this has been our assumption of the cause without such proof.
> 
> Equipment on these commercial towers has been no more then two 450i AP’s 
> with KP 120’ sectors (pending 450m upgrades).
> 
> *Tyson Burris, President**
> **Internet Communications Inc.**
> **739 Commerce Dr.**
> **Franklin, IN 46131**
> ***
> *Office #**317-738-0320 *
> *Cell/Direct #**317-412-1540 *
> *Online: **www.surfici.net*
> 
> ICI
> 
> *What can ICI do for you?*
> 
> 
> *Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP 
> Cameras - Fiber - Towers - Infrastructure.*
> **
> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
> *addressee shown. It contains information that is*
> *confidential and protected from disclo

Re: [AFMUG] T-Mobile PALs and CBRS GAA

[Mathew Howard]

Right, they can do that, if there are channels available, but they don't
have too (and in some cases, they really can't), and it actually isn't
their job.

On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 11:11 AM Brian Webster 
wrote:

> This is based on conversations with Richard Barnhart who understand this
> probably as good as anyone. He did help develop the standards and SAS
> requirements.
>
> Just saying that while it's possible for the SAS to do that now, if more
> users show up than there are channels there is no first in protections.
> Make
> your business plans accordingly.
>
> Thank you,
> Brian Webster
> www.wirelessmapping.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 11:18 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group; Tyson Burris
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] T-Mobile PALs and CBRS GAA
>
> What equipment are you using?  If 450 make sure you use Frame Type 2 for
> LTE Coexxistence.
>
> Then contact your SAS who will promptly kick T-Mobile off of part of the
> GAA and allow both of you to coexist nicely.
>
> On 7/25/21 6:24 AM, Tyson Burris wrote:
> > Good morning AF Geeks-
> >
> > Someone help me understand this better.  Several questions below.
> >
> > We operate in six counties in Indiana.  Some rural some not so much.
> >
> > In our main county (johnson) we are starting to get interference even
> > when we are connected to the SAS.
> >
> > While we cannot prove anything yet, each tower we are seeing this on
> > recently had new T-Mobile equipment deployed.
> >
> > I reached out to our attorney, Steve Coran, this week and asked him to
> > pulled the county PAL winners. Listed here:
> >
> > PAL winners for Johnson County, IN:
> >
> > XF Wireless Investment, LLC (Comcast) -- 20 MHz
> >
> > Actel, LLC (CenturyLink) -- 20 MHz
> >
> > Wetterhorn Wireless L.L.C. (DISH) – 30 MHz
> >
> > -Century Link has zero cell services of any kind in our county and
> > currently not deploying in fixed wireless.
> >
> > -Comcast floats off Verizon
> >
> > -Dish also has zero cell services of any kind in our count
> >
> > So what we ended up with is PAL winners who have nothing to offer
> > locally yet unless subleasing.
> >
> > Questions are:
> >
> > is T-Mobile subleasing PAL’s from any of these three?
> >
> > Is T-Mobile illegally just rotating PAL’s anywhere they want in the
> > country instead of just local counties?
> >
> > Anyway to clearly isolate the offending carrier sucking up so much
> > spectrum and causing all the interference?
> >
> > Another member brought up T-Mobile as a possible offender.  Did any data
> > come from that?
> >
> > What time of the day do the SAS databases sync with each other and does
> > this force other carriers to cut back on total GAA – share nicely?
> >
> > Has anyone found the other SAS providers to be better then GOOGLE.
> > Starting to think their system is worthless or inaccurate.  Truth is I
> > think this whole concept of spectrum sharing is poorly handled and not
> > fully tested on 3g.
> >
> > If a carrier is on the same tower, how will that affect sync?  I ask
> > because we found some very interesting work arounds and results with
> > upload when we started playing with sync settings…ie distance, frame,
> > channel.
> >
> > If the customer SM is moved from one spot to another or from a roof to a
> > post how badly does this affect the calculations on the SAS side?
> >
> > Things we have discovered:
> >
> >   * Even when we find noise floors on spectrum analysis in a reasonable
> > range and move to the cleaner channel on the SAS the interference
> > still trashes the uplinks.
> >   * In some cases the SAS is blocking the cleanest of channels which
> > could be PAL related.
> >   * In some cases customer SM’s going off other ‘unaffected’ sites
> > nearby may get knocked offline by the new noise.
> >   * In some cases we have had to drop off the SAS and found switching to
> > other regulatory has allowed us to switch to cleaner channels and
> > stabilized subs.  (which is exactly what we shouldn’t be doing)
> >   * We have a ton of 450m units going on towers as both new and
> > upgrades.  I am concerned that the more urban areas will struggle
> > with capacity since we have to break this up across multiple sectors.
> >
> > History and Equipment:
> >
> > Again this seems very isolated to our more urban deployments which have
> > historically been awesome in the 50Mhz channels prior to CBRS turn ups.
> >
> > Our more rural areas are not seeing this issue at all.
> >
> > All three locations have very specific and brand new T-Mobile equipment
> > so this has been our assumption of the cause without such proof.
> >
> > Equipment on these commercial towers has been no more then two 450i AP’s
> > with KP 120’ sectors (pending 450m upgrades).
> >
> > *Tyson Burris, President**
> > **Internet Communications Inc.**
> > **739 Commerce Dr.**
> > **Franklin, IN 46131**
> > ***
> > *Office #**

Re: [AFMUG] T-Mobile PALs and CBRS GAA

[Tyson Burris]

The issue we are having is the SAS shows everything available and not even the 
PALs show listed or protected.

Tyson Burris, President 
Internet Communications Inc. 
739 Commerce Dr. 
Franklin, IN 46131 
  
Office # 317-738-0320 
Cell/Direct # 317-412-1540 
Online: www.surfici.net 


What can ICI do for you? 

Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP Cameras - 
Fiber - Towers - Infrastructure. 
  
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the 
addressee shown. It contains information that is 
confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review, 
dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by 
unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly 
prohibited. 

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Brian Webster
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 12:11 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] T-Mobile PALs and CBRS GAA

This is based on conversations with Richard Barnhart who understand this 
probably as good as anyone. He did help develop the standards and SAS 
requirements.

Just saying that while it's possible for the SAS to do that now, if more users 
show up than there are channels there is no first in protections. Make your 
business plans accordingly.

Thank you,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com

-Original Message-
From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 11:18 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group; Tyson Burris
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] T-Mobile PALs and CBRS GAA

What equipment are you using?  If 450 make sure you use Frame Type 2 for LTE 
Coexxistence.

Then contact your SAS who will promptly kick T-Mobile off of part of the GAA 
and allow both of you to coexist nicely.

On 7/25/21 6:24 AM, Tyson Burris wrote:
> Good morning AF Geeks-
> 
> Someone help me understand this better.  Several questions below.
> 
> We operate in six counties in Indiana.  Some rural some not so much.
> 
> In our main county (johnson) we are starting to get interference even 
> when we are connected to the SAS.
> 
> While we cannot prove anything yet, each tower we are seeing this on 
> recently had new T-Mobile equipment deployed.
> 
> I reached out to our attorney, Steve Coran, this week and asked him to 
> pulled the county PAL winners. Listed here:
> 
> PAL winners for Johnson County, IN:
> 
> XF Wireless Investment, LLC (Comcast) -- 20 MHz
> 
> Actel, LLC (CenturyLink) -- 20 MHz
> 
> Wetterhorn Wireless L.L.C. (DISH) - 30 MHz
> 
> -Century Link has zero cell services of any kind in our county and 
> currently not deploying in fixed wireless.
> 
> -Comcast floats off Verizon
> 
> -Dish also has zero cell services of any kind in our count
> 
> So what we ended up with is PAL winners who have nothing to offer 
> locally yet unless subleasing.
> 
> Questions are:
> 
> is T-Mobile subleasing PAL's from any of these three?
> 
> Is T-Mobile illegally just rotating PAL's anywhere they want in the 
> country instead of just local counties?
> 
> Anyway to clearly isolate the offending carrier sucking up so much 
> spectrum and causing all the interference?
> 
> Another member brought up T-Mobile as a possible offender.  Did any 
> data come from that?
> 
> What time of the day do the SAS databases sync with each other and 
> does this force other carriers to cut back on total GAA - share nicely?
> 
> Has anyone found the other SAS providers to be better then GOOGLE.  
> Starting to think their system is worthless or inaccurate.  Truth is I 
> think this whole concept of spectrum sharing is poorly handled and not 
> fully tested on 3g.
> 
> If a carrier is on the same tower, how will that affect sync?  I ask 
> because we found some very interesting work arounds and results with 
> upload when we started playing with sync settings.ie distance, frame, 
> channel.
> 
> If the customer SM is moved from one spot to another or from a roof to 
> a post how badly does this affect the calculations on the SAS side?
> 
> Things we have discovered:
> 
>   * Even when we find noise floors on spectrum analysis in a reasonable
> range and move to the cleaner channel on the SAS the interference
> still trashes the uplinks.
>   * In some cases the SAS is blocking the cleanest of channels which
> could be PAL related.
>   * In some cases customer SM's going off other 'unaffected' sites
> nearby may get knocked offline by the new noise.
>   * In some cases we have had to drop off the SAS and found switching to
> other regulatory has allowed us to switch to cleaner channels and
> stabilized subs.  (which is exactly what we shouldn't be doing)
>   * We have a ton of 450m units going on towers as both new and
> upgrades.  I am concerned that the more urban areas will struggle
> with capacity since we have to break this up across multiple sectors.
> 
> History and Equipment:
> 
> Again this seems very isolated to our more urban deployments which 
> have historically been awes

[AFMUG] test desktop

[Chuck McCown via AF]

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Re: [AFMUG] T-Mobile PALs and CBRS GAA

[Mathew Howard]

The SAS providers should be able to check and see if there's anything
registered in the SAS database at that location (whether it's GAA or PAL,
it has to get a grant from the SAS) - if there isn't anything registered
with the SAS, then they're operating illegally.

On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 11:34 AM Tyson Burris  wrote:

> The issue we are having is the SAS shows everything available and not even
> the PALs show listed or protected.
>
> Tyson Burris, President
> Internet Communications Inc.
> 739 Commerce Dr.
> Franklin, IN 46131
>
> Office # 317-738-0320
> Cell/Direct # 317-412-1540
> Online: www.surfici.net
>
>
> What can ICI do for you?
>
> Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP Cameras
> - Fiber - Towers - Infrastructure.
>
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the
> addressee shown. It contains information that is
> confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,
> dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by
> unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly
> prohibited.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Brian Webster
> Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 12:11 PM
> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] T-Mobile PALs and CBRS GAA
>
> This is based on conversations with Richard Barnhart who understand this
> probably as good as anyone. He did help develop the standards and SAS
> requirements.
>
> Just saying that while it's possible for the SAS to do that now, if more
> users show up than there are channels there is no first in protections.
> Make your business plans accordingly.
>
> Thank you,
> Brian Webster
> www.wirelessmapping.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 11:18 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group; Tyson Burris
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] T-Mobile PALs and CBRS GAA
>
> What equipment are you using?  If 450 make sure you use Frame Type 2 for
> LTE Coexxistence.
>
> Then contact your SAS who will promptly kick T-Mobile off of part of the
> GAA and allow both of you to coexist nicely.
>
> On 7/25/21 6:24 AM, Tyson Burris wrote:
> > Good morning AF Geeks-
> >
> > Someone help me understand this better.  Several questions below.
> >
> > We operate in six counties in Indiana.  Some rural some not so much.
> >
> > In our main county (johnson) we are starting to get interference even
> > when we are connected to the SAS.
> >
> > While we cannot prove anything yet, each tower we are seeing this on
> > recently had new T-Mobile equipment deployed.
> >
> > I reached out to our attorney, Steve Coran, this week and asked him to
> > pulled the county PAL winners. Listed here:
> >
> > PAL winners for Johnson County, IN:
> >
> > XF Wireless Investment, LLC (Comcast) -- 20 MHz
> >
> > Actel, LLC (CenturyLink) -- 20 MHz
> >
> > Wetterhorn Wireless L.L.C. (DISH) - 30 MHz
> >
> > -Century Link has zero cell services of any kind in our county and
> > currently not deploying in fixed wireless.
> >
> > -Comcast floats off Verizon
> >
> > -Dish also has zero cell services of any kind in our count
> >
> > So what we ended up with is PAL winners who have nothing to offer
> > locally yet unless subleasing.
> >
> > Questions are:
> >
> > is T-Mobile subleasing PAL's from any of these three?
> >
> > Is T-Mobile illegally just rotating PAL's anywhere they want in the
> > country instead of just local counties?
> >
> > Anyway to clearly isolate the offending carrier sucking up so much
> > spectrum and causing all the interference?
> >
> > Another member brought up T-Mobile as a possible offender.  Did any
> > data come from that?
> >
> > What time of the day do the SAS databases sync with each other and
> > does this force other carriers to cut back on total GAA - share nicely?
> >
> > Has anyone found the other SAS providers to be better then GOOGLE.
> > Starting to think their system is worthless or inaccurate.  Truth is I
> > think this whole concept of spectrum sharing is poorly handled and not
> > fully tested on 3g.
> >
> > If a carrier is on the same tower, how will that affect sync?  I ask
> > because we found some very interesting work arounds and results with
> > upload when we started playing with sync settings.ie distance, frame,
> > channel.
> >
> > If the customer SM is moved from one spot to another or from a roof to
> > a post how badly does this affect the calculations on the SAS side?
> >
> > Things we have discovered:
> >
> >   * Even when we find noise floors on spectrum analysis in a reasonable
> > range and move to the cleaner channel on the SAS the interference
> > still trashes the uplinks.
> >   * In some cases the SAS is blocking the cleanest of channels which
> > could be PAL related.
> >   * In some cases customer SM's going off other 'unaffected' sites
> > nearby may get knocked offline by the new noise.
> >   * In some cases we have had to drop off the SAS and found swit

[AFMUG] Test phone

[Chuck McCown via AF]

Sent from my iPhone


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Re: [AFMUG] cut fiber

[Jan-GAMs]

Must be nice having unlimited access to resources

On 7/24/21 9:23 PM, Darin Steffl wrote:

Get a backup connection and use BGP. Not rocket science

On Sat, Jul 24, 2021 at 5:38 PM Jan-GAMs > wrote:


5 minutes before the auction starts for the 4H club, the fiber
backhaul
somewhere gets cut.  Several counties got disconnected. Now a
whole lot
of kids didn't get to sell.  Can you believe this shit?  Of course
because we're on-site we get the blame.


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Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com 
507-634-WiFi
Like us on Facebook 

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Re: [AFMUG] test desktop

[Chuck McCown via AF]

Odd, a bit selective in what it is allowing through this morning...  

From: Chuck McCown via AF 
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 10:39 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: [AFMUG] test desktop





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[AFMUG] Fw: OT somewhat political

[Chuck McCown via AF]

Nobody, that is a preventable hazard to all others should have their liberty.  
That is why Typhoid Mary was imprisoned on Brothers Island.  

That is why people that are criminally insane and violent are locked up in 
jail.  

If someone started dancing through a crowd with a spray bottle of anthrax, they 
would go to jail.  

A non vaxed person carrying and spreading the virus is the same as that person. 
 They are knowingly exposing the general public to an ever increasing risk of 
covid transmission.  They may not even realize they have it if they are an 
asymptomatic carrier.

You cannot control deer in the road, you can control Covid spreading.  

From: Dennis Burgess 
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 9:59 AM
To: Chuck McCown 
Subject: RE: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political

Nope, personal freedom is something everyone is entitled to..You and I take 
chances every time we go out, maybe a drunk driver will hit us, maybe a deer 
will run into the road. Who knows.  It is what it is.   If you live in fear, 
that’s your issue.  A vaxxed person can do what they want, just as the 
unvaccinated person.  

 

 



Dennis Burgess


Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition” 

Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services 

Office: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net 

Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com 

Need MikroTik Cloud Management: https://cloud.linktechs.net 

 

From: Chuck McCown  
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 10:56 AM
To: Dennis Burgess 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political

 

So, unvacinnated folk that get the virus and walk around for a few days 
breathing on the general public are OK with you?  Some are asymptomatic, others 
are just not feeling too poorly to stay home yet.  But they are a living 
breathing biological warfare machine.  And they can just run free?

 

How about if they had anthrax or rabies or the plague?  Doesn’t matter?

 

From: Dennis Burgess 

Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 6:00 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Cc: Chuck McCown 

Subject: RE: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political

 

Or that other person can ware the condom since they are so afraid of it, or 
maybe they should not be out in public? 

 

 



Dennis Burgess


Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition” 

Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services 

Office: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net 

Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com 

Need MikroTik Cloud Management: https://cloud.linktechs.net 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2021 6:20 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political

 

AIDS was / Is 100% avoidable.  COVID is like someone with AIDS spraying you 
down with their precious bodily fluids by sneezing.  People have been 
prosecuted for infecting others with AIDS.  Why not COVID?  If you don’t want 
the vax, fine but you need a full body condom if you come within 100’ of 
another person.

Sent from my iPhone

 

  On Jul 23, 2021, at 4:24 PM, David Coudron  
wrote:

   

  There are valid reasons for deciding to take this vaccine, the shingles 
vaccine, the flu vaccine, or a myriad of other medications.   Each decision 
should be based on risk/reward of that drug and the medical condition being 
treated.   To think that you know everyone’s medical situation better than they 
do doesn’t seem very feasible and awfully presumptive.   To call them selfish 
for making a decision they believe is in their best medical interest seems 
overly judgmental. Yes, there are people are deciding not to take it simply 
because they think they shouldn’t be forced to take a medical treatment against 
their will.   You may feel that we should force them to take the treatment for 
the better good.   I doubt you would feel the same about mandatory castration 
of young men to curb overcrowding of the earth.   Obviously there is a line 
somewhere about forced treatment for the greater good.  I am not attempting to 
determine where that line is, only suggesting that folks have valid medical 
reasons for not deciding to take the vaccine and they shouldn’t be publicly 
shamed for making that decision.   It doesn’t seem that far fetched, but I am 
learning I see things differently than some other folks.   So be it.

   

  I love the argument that we have to get vaccinated, but we still have to act 
like the vaccine doesn’t work in order to save the human race.   Seems like a 
disconnect there.   

   

  If we were really so worried about infecting others or causing harm to 
others, we would avoid all other activities that create risk for others.  We’d 
never drive a car, much less have a beer and get in a car.   I doubt that very 
many of us on this list can say that.  We would never allow the sale of fatty 
foods.   We would force each and everyone to get to a body mass within our 
accepted range.   Keep in mind life is risky.   We don’t need to 

[AFMUG] Fw: OT somewhat political

[Chuck McCown via AF]

So, unvacinnated folk that get the virus and walk around for a few days 
breathing on the general public are OK with you?  Some are asymptomatic, others 
are just not feeling too poorly to stay home yet.  But they are a living 
breathing biological warfare machine.  And they can just run free?

How about if they had anthrax or rabies or the plague?  Doesn’t matter?

From: Dennis Burgess 
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 6:00 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: RE: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political

Or that other person can ware the condom since they are so afraid of it, or 
maybe they should not be out in public? 

 

 



Dennis Burgess


Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition” 

Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services 

Office: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net 

Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com 

Need MikroTik Cloud Management: https://cloud.linktechs.net 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2021 6:20 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political

 

AIDS was / Is 100% avoidable.  COVID is like someone with AIDS spraying you 
down with their precious bodily fluids by sneezing.  People have been 
prosecuted for infecting others with AIDS.  Why not COVID?  If you don’t want 
the vax, fine but you need a full body condom if you come within 100’ of 
another person.

Sent from my iPhone





  On Jul 23, 2021, at 4:24 PM, David Coudron  
wrote:

   

  There are valid reasons for deciding to take this vaccine, the shingles 
vaccine, the flu vaccine, or a myriad of other medications.   Each decision 
should be based on risk/reward of that drug and the medical condition being 
treated.   To think that you know everyone’s medical situation better than they 
do doesn’t seem very feasible and awfully presumptive.   To call them selfish 
for making a decision they believe is in their best medical interest seems 
overly judgmental. Yes, there are people are deciding not to take it simply 
because they think they shouldn’t be forced to take a medical treatment against 
their will.   You may feel that we should force them to take the treatment for 
the better good.   I doubt you would feel the same about mandatory castration 
of young men to curb overcrowding of the earth.   Obviously there is a line 
somewhere about forced treatment for the greater good.  I am not attempting to 
determine where that line is, only suggesting that folks have valid medical 
reasons for not deciding to take the vaccine and they shouldn’t be publicly 
shamed for making that decision.   It doesn’t seem that far fetched, but I am 
learning I see things differently than some other folks.   So be it.

   

  I love the argument that we have to get vaccinated, but we still have to act 
like the vaccine doesn’t work in order to save the human race.   Seems like a 
disconnect there.   

   

  If we were really so worried about infecting others or causing harm to 
others, we would avoid all other activities that create risk for others.  We’d 
never drive a car, much less have a beer and get in a car.   I doubt that very 
many of us on this list can say that.  We would never allow the sale of fatty 
foods.   We would force each and everyone to get to a body mass within our 
accepted range.   Keep in mind life is risky.   We don’t need to do stupid 
things, but being alive carries with it the risk of dying.We are all much 
more likely to die of heart disease, stroke related illness, or cancer than we 
are of Covid.   Those are just the facts.  Many folks make small adjustments to 
reduce the risk of those  likely causes of mortality, but have long ago passed 
on decisions to make big changes to eliminate the possibility of those causes 
of death.   

   

  I have long ago decided not to live in constant fear of these things.   While 
I chose to be vaccinated, I respect the right of folks to make the best choice 
for their situation.   I also respect the right of someone who is not in the 
best physical condition to eat a steak.   I realize that a drunk driver might 
kill me some day, but I respect the right of individuals to go to a bar and 
expect that most (but not all) are responsible enough not to drink and drive 
when they have had too much.   

   

  Keep in mind that this virus would have never come to our country if we never 
allowed anyone in or out of it.   But we understand that certain personal 
freedoms are worth the possibility of catching a disease that might kill us.   
I have a tough time with the mass hypochondria surrounding this situation.

   

  Sorry, I am not meaning to make anyone mad, just trying to keep perspective.  
   I just don’t understand why folks get so bent out of shape if they are 
already vaccinated.   I guess they don’t believe the vaccine will work because 
if it does, there is nothing to worry about.

   

  I wager that giv

Re: [AFMUG] test desktop

[Jan-GAMs]

testing testingdesktop with a stutter

On 7/26/21 9:39 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:


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AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Fw: OT somewhat political

[Chuck McCown via AF]

I like this:

Contact trace your covid back to the unvaccinated person that transmitted it.  
They get to pay for the healthcare/death.  
Having a vax is safe harbor.

Tort law to the rescue! 
Now we need some covid liability policies.  Unvaxed people have to have 
insurance.  Just like if you wanna drive a car you gotta have insurance because 
you are a hazard to everyone else on the road.  You wanna walk free either get 
vaxed or get the liability policy.  

Now, how about random stops, or perhaps entry into large gatherings.  Show the 
shot card or proof of insurance. 
The venue is gonna have to track where people are sitting so they can help 
assign the blame.  Maybe give all non vaxed a gps wrist strap that gets tracked 
throughout the event.  

Or, perhaps we can come up with some of nuclear backscatter detector that will 
finger you by just scanning you.  Immediately get to appear before Judge Dredd. 
 Or you get disintegrated on the spot.  

From: Chuck McCown via AF 
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 10:41 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: [AFMUG] Fw: OT somewhat political

So, unvacinnated folk that get the virus and walk around for a few days 
breathing on the general public are OK with you?  Some are asymptomatic, others 
are just not feeling too poorly to stay home yet.  But they are a living 
breathing biological warfare machine.  And they can just run free?

How about if they had anthrax or rabies or the plague?  Doesn’t matter?

From: Dennis Burgess 
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 6:00 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: RE: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political

Or that other person can ware the condom since they are so afraid of it, or 
maybe they should not be out in public? 

 

 



Dennis Burgess


Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition” 

Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services 

Office: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net 

Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com 

Need MikroTik Cloud Management: https://cloud.linktechs.net 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2021 6:20 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political

 

AIDS was / Is 100% avoidable.  COVID is like someone with AIDS spraying you 
down with their precious bodily fluids by sneezing.  People have been 
prosecuted for infecting others with AIDS.  Why not COVID?  If you don’t want 
the vax, fine but you need a full body condom if you come within 100’ of 
another person.

Sent from my iPhone





  On Jul 23, 2021, at 4:24 PM, David Coudron  
wrote:

   

  There are valid reasons for deciding to take this vaccine, the shingles 
vaccine, the flu vaccine, or a myriad of other medications.   Each decision 
should be based on risk/reward of that drug and the medical condition being 
treated.   To think that you know everyone’s medical situation better than they 
do doesn’t seem very feasible and awfully presumptive.   To call them selfish 
for making a decision they believe is in their best medical interest seems 
overly judgmental. Yes, there are people are deciding not to take it simply 
because they think they shouldn’t be forced to take a medical treatment against 
their will.   You may feel that we should force them to take the treatment for 
the better good.   I doubt you would feel the same about mandatory castration 
of young men to curb overcrowding of the earth.   Obviously there is a line 
somewhere about forced treatment for the greater good.  I am not attempting to 
determine where that line is, only suggesting that folks have valid medical 
reasons for not deciding to take the vaccine and they shouldn’t be publicly 
shamed for making that decision.   It doesn’t seem that far fetched, but I am 
learning I see things differently than some other folks.   So be it.

   

  I love the argument that we have to get vaccinated, but we still have to act 
like the vaccine doesn’t work in order to save the human race.   Seems like a 
disconnect there.   

   

  If we were really so worried about infecting others or causing harm to 
others, we would avoid all other activities that create risk for others.  We’d 
never drive a car, much less have a beer and get in a car.   I doubt that very 
many of us on this list can say that.  We would never allow the sale of fatty 
foods.   We would force each and everyone to get to a body mass within our 
accepted range.   Keep in mind life is risky.   We don’t need to do stupid 
things, but being alive carries with it the risk of dying.We are all much 
more likely to die of heart disease, stroke related illness, or cancer than we 
are of Covid.   Those are just the facts.  Many folks make small adjustments to 
reduce the risk of those  likely causes of mortality, but have long ago passed 
on decisions to make big changes to eliminate the possibility of those causes 
of death.   

   

  I have long ago decided 

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: OT somewhat political

[Mathew Howard]

There's a major difference - Typhoid Mary knew that she was a carrier.
Somebody dancing through a crowd with a spray bottle of anthrax is
intentionally trying to kill people.

An apparently healthy un-vaxxed person, taking reasonable precautions is
nothing like that.

Sure, somebody that knows they're sick (or even has reason to think they
might be) and goes out and slobbers all over the general public is a
similar situation, but nobody is defending that.

On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 11:42 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
wrote:

> So, unvacinnated folk that get the virus and walk around for a few days
> breathing on the general public are OK with you?  Some are asymptomatic,
> others are just not feeling too poorly to stay home yet.  But they are a
> living breathing biological warfare machine.  And they can just run free?
>
> How about if they had anthrax or rabies or the plague?  Doesn’t matter?
>
> *From:* Dennis Burgess
> *Sent:* Monday, July 26, 2021 6:00 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
> *Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political
>
>
> Or that other person can ware the condom since they are so afraid of it,
> or maybe they should not be out in public?
>
>
>
>
>
> *[image: LTI-Full_175px]*
>
> *Dennis Burgess*
>
>
> Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
>
> *Link Technologies, Inc* -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>
> *Office*: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net
>
> Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com
>
> Need MikroTik Cloud Management: https://cloud.linktechs.net
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Friday, July 23, 2021 6:20 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political
>
>
>
> AIDS was / Is 100% avoidable.  COVID is like someone with AIDS spraying
> you down with their precious bodily fluids by sneezing.  People have been
> prosecuted for infecting others with AIDS.  Why not COVID?  If you don’t
> want the vax, fine but you need a full body condom if you come within 100’
> of another person.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On Jul 23, 2021, at 4:24 PM, David Coudron 
> wrote:
>
> 
>
> There are valid reasons for deciding to take this vaccine, the shingles
> vaccine, the flu vaccine, or a myriad of other medications.   Each decision
> should be based on risk/reward of that drug and the medical condition being
> treated.   To think that you know everyone’s medical situation better than
> they do doesn’t seem very feasible and awfully presumptive.   To call them
> selfish for making a decision they believe is in their best medical
> interest seems overly judgmental. Yes, there are people are deciding
> not to take it simply because they think they shouldn’t be forced to take a
> medical treatment against their will.   You may feel that we should force
> them to take the treatment for the better good.   I doubt you would feel
> the same about mandatory castration of young men to curb overcrowding of
> the earth.   Obviously there is a line somewhere about forced treatment for
> the greater good.  I am not attempting to determine where that line is,
> only suggesting that folks have valid medical reasons for not deciding to
> take the vaccine and they shouldn’t be publicly shamed for making that
> decision.   It doesn’t seem that far fetched, but I am learning I see
> things differently than some other folks.   So be it.
>
>
>
> I love the argument that we have to get vaccinated, but we still have to
> act like the vaccine doesn’t work in order to save the human race.   Seems
> like a disconnect there.
>
>
>
> If we were really so worried about infecting others or causing harm to
> others, we would avoid all other activities that create risk for others.
> We’d never drive a car, much less have a beer and get in a car.   I doubt
> that very many of us on this list can say that.  We would never allow the
> sale of fatty foods.   We would force each and everyone to get to a body
> mass within our accepted range.   Keep in mind life is risky.   We don’t
> need to do stupid things, but being alive carries with it the risk of
> dying.We are all much more likely to die of heart disease, stroke
> related illness, or cancer than we are of Covid.   Those are just the
> facts.  Many folks make small adjustments to reduce the risk of those
> likely causes of mortality, but have long ago passed on decisions to make
> big changes to eliminate the possibility of those causes of death.
>
>
>
> I have long ago decided not to live in constant fear of these things.
> While I chose to be vaccinated, I respect the right of folks to make the
> best choice for their situation.   I also respect the right of someone who
> is not in the best physical condition to eat a steak.   I realize that a
> drunk driver might kill me some day, but I respect the right of individuals
> to go to a bar and expect that most (but not all) are responsible enough
> not to drink and dr

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: OT somewhat political

[Jan-GAMs]

You have a yes vote here

On 7/26/21 9:50 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

I like this:
Contact trace your covid back to the unvaccinated person that 
transmitted it.  They get to pay for the healthcare/death.

Having a vax is safe harbor.
Tort law to the rescue!
Now we need some covid liability policies.  Unvaxed people have to 
have insurance.  Just like if you wanna drive a car you gotta have 
insurance because you are a hazard to everyone else on the road.  You 
wanna walk free either get vaxed or get the liability policy.
Now, how about random stops, or perhaps entry into large gatherings.  
Show the shot card or proof of insurance.
The venue is gonna have to track where people are sitting so they can 
help assign the blame.  Maybe give all non vaxed a gps wrist strap 
that gets tracked throughout the event.
Or, perhaps we can come up with some of nuclear backscatter detector 
that will finger you by just scanning you.  Immediately get to appear 
before Judge Dredd.  Or you get disintegrated on the spot.

*From:* Chuck McCown via AF
*Sent:* Monday, July 26, 2021 10:41 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Cc:* Chuck McCown
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Fw: OT somewhat political
So, unvacinnated folk that get the virus and walk around for a few 
days breathing on the general public are OK with you?  Some are 
asymptomatic, others are just not feeling too poorly to stay home 
yet.  But they are a living breathing biological warfare machine.  And 
they can just run free?

How about if they had anthrax or rabies or the plague?  Doesn’t matter?
*From:* Dennis Burgess
*Sent:* Monday, July 26, 2021 6:00 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Cc:* Chuck McCown
*Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political

Or that other person can ware the condom since they are so afraid of 
it, or maybe they should not be out in public?


*LTI-Full_175px*

*Dennis Burgess*

*
*Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”

*Link Technologies, Inc*-- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services

*Office*: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net 



Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com 



Need MikroTik Cloud Management: https://cloud.linktechs.net 



*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
*Sent:* Friday, July 23, 2021 6:20 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Cc:* Chuck McCown 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political

AIDS was / Is 100% avoidable.  COVID is like someone with AIDS 
spraying you down with their precious bodily fluids by sneezing.  
People have been prosecuted for infecting others with AIDS.  Why not 
COVID? If you don’t want the vax, fine but you need a full body condom 
if you come within 100’ of another person.


Sent from my iPhone



On Jul 23, 2021, at 4:24 PM, David Coudron
 wrote:



There are valid reasons for deciding to take this vaccine, the
shingles vaccine, the flu vaccine, or a myriad of other
medications.   Each decision should be based on risk/reward of
that drug and the medical condition being treated. To think that
you know everyone’s medical situation better than they do doesn’t
seem very feasible and awfully presumptive.   To call them selfish
for making a decision they believe is in their best medical
interest seems overly judgmental. Yes, there are people are
deciding not to take it simply because they think they shouldn’t
be forced to take a medical treatment against their will.   You
may feel that we should force them to take the treatment for the
better good.   I doubt you would feel the same about mandatory
castration of young men to curb overcrowding of the earth.  
Obviously there is a line somewhere about forced treatment for the
greater good.  I am not attempting to determine where that line
is, only suggesting that folks have valid medical reasons for not
deciding to take the vaccine and they shouldn’t be publicly shamed
for making that decision.   It doesn’t seem that far fetched, but
I am learning I see things differently than some other folks.   So
be it.

I love the argument that we have to get vaccinated, but we still
have to act like the vaccine doesn’t work in order to save the
human race.   Seems like a disconnect there.

If we were really so worried about infecting others or causing
harm to others, we would avoid all other activities that create
risk for others.  We’d never drive a car, much less have a beer
and get in a car.   I doubt that very many of us on this list can
say that.  We would never allow the sale of fatty foods.   We
would force each and everyone to get to a body mass within our
accepted range. Keep in mind life is risky.   We don’t need to do
stupid things, but being alive carries with it the risk of
dying.    We are all much more likely to die of heart disease,
stroke related illness, or cancer than we are of Covid.   Those
are just the 

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: OT somewhat political

[Chuck McCown via AF]

Sometimes it is fun to be a troll.  

Damn paperclips keep sticking to me...

From: Jan-GAMs 
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 11:10 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: OT somewhat political

You have a yes vote here


On 7/26/21 9:50 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

  I like this:

  Contact trace your covid back to the unvaccinated person that transmitted it. 
 They get to pay for the healthcare/death.  
  Having a vax is safe harbor.

  Tort law to the rescue! 
  Now we need some covid liability policies.  Unvaxed people have to have 
insurance.  Just like if you wanna drive a car you gotta have insurance because 
you are a hazard to everyone else on the road.  You wanna walk free either get 
vaxed or get the liability policy.  

  Now, how about random stops, or perhaps entry into large gatherings.  Show 
the shot card or proof of insurance. 
  The venue is gonna have to track where people are sitting so they can help 
assign the blame.  Maybe give all non vaxed a gps wrist strap that gets tracked 
throughout the event.  

  Or, perhaps we can come up with some of nuclear backscatter detector that 
will finger you by just scanning you.  Immediately get to appear before Judge 
Dredd.  Or you get disintegrated on the spot.  

  From: Chuck McCown via AF 
  Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 10:41 AM
  To: af@af.afmug.com 
  Cc: Chuck McCown 
  Subject: [AFMUG] Fw: OT somewhat political

  So, unvacinnated folk that get the virus and walk around for a few days 
breathing on the general public are OK with you?  Some are asymptomatic, others 
are just not feeling too poorly to stay home yet.  But they are a living 
breathing biological warfare machine.  And they can just run free?

  How about if they had anthrax or rabies or the plague?  Doesn’t matter?

  From: Dennis Burgess 
  Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 6:00 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Cc: Chuck McCown 
  Subject: RE: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political

  Or that other person can ware the condom since they are so afraid of it, or 
maybe they should not be out in public? 

   

   



  Dennis Burgess


  Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition” 

  Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services 

  Office: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net 

  Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com 

  Need MikroTik Cloud Management: https://cloud.linktechs.net 

   

  From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
  Sent: Friday, July 23, 2021 6:20 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
  Cc: Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political

   

  AIDS was / Is 100% avoidable.  COVID is like someone with AIDS spraying you 
down with their precious bodily fluids by sneezing.  People have been 
prosecuted for infecting others with AIDS.  Why not COVID?  If you don’t want 
the vax, fine but you need a full body condom if you come within 100’ of 
another person.

  Sent from my iPhone





On Jul 23, 2021, at 4:24 PM, David Coudron  
wrote:

 

There are valid reasons for deciding to take this vaccine, the shingles 
vaccine, the flu vaccine, or a myriad of other medications.   Each decision 
should be based on risk/reward of that drug and the medical condition being 
treated.   To think that you know everyone’s medical situation better than they 
do doesn’t seem very feasible and awfully presumptive.   To call them selfish 
for making a decision they believe is in their best medical interest seems 
overly judgmental. Yes, there are people are deciding not to take it simply 
because they think they shouldn’t be forced to take a medical treatment against 
their will.   You may feel that we should force them to take the treatment for 
the better good.   I doubt you would feel the same about mandatory castration 
of young men to curb overcrowding of the earth.   Obviously there is a line 
somewhere about forced treatment for the greater good.  I am not attempting to 
determine where that line is, only suggesting that folks have valid medical 
reasons for not deciding to take the vaccine and they shouldn’t be publicly 
shamed for making that decision.   It doesn’t seem that far fetched, but I am 
learning I see things differently than some other folks.   So be it.

 

I love the argument that we have to get vaccinated, but we still have to 
act like the vaccine doesn’t work in order to save the human race.   Seems like 
a disconnect there.   

 

If we were really so worried about infecting others or causing harm to 
others, we would avoid all other activities that create risk for others.  We’d 
never drive a car, much less have a beer and get in a car.   I doubt that very 
many of us on this list can say that.  We would never allow the sale of fatty 
foods.   We would force each and everyone to get to a body mass within our 
accepted range.   Keep in mind life is risky.   We don’t need to do stupid 
thin

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: OT somewhat political

[Robert]

Yep, personal freedom does not allow you to drive down a highway a) 
without a license b) in the wrong direction.   Ya gonna go to jail.   
Willingly walking around spreading the virus with symptoms is grounds 
for jailtime, even coughing or sneezing on food in a grocery store will 
get you a visit to the courts..


On 7/26/21 9:41 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
Nobody, that is a preventable hazard to all others should have their 
liberty.  That is why Typhoid Mary was imprisoned on Brothers Island.
That is why people that are criminally insane and violent are locked 
up in jail.
If someone started dancing through a crowd with a spray bottle of 
anthrax, they would go to jail.
A non vaxed person carrying and spreading the virus is the same as 
that person.  They are knowingly exposing the general public to an 
ever increasing risk of covid transmission.  They may not even realize 
they have it if they are an asymptomatic carrier.

You cannot control deer in the road, you can control Covid spreading.
*From:* Dennis Burgess
*Sent:* Monday, July 26, 2021 9:59 AM
*To:* Chuck McCown
*Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political

Nope, personal freedom is something everyone is entitled to..    You 
and I take chances every time we go out, maybe a drunk driver will hit 
us, maybe a deer will run into the road. Who knows.  It is what it 
is.   If you live in fear, that’s your issue.  A vaxxed person can do 
what they want, just as the unvaccinated person.


*LTI-Full_175px*

*Dennis Burgess*

*
*Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”

*Link Technologies, Inc*-- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services

*Office*: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net 



Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com 



Need MikroTik Cloud Management: https://cloud.linktechs.net 



*From:* Chuck McCown 
*Sent:* Monday, July 26, 2021 10:56 AM
*To:* Dennis Burgess 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political

So, unvacinnated folk that get the virus and walk around for a few 
days breathing on the general public are OK with you?  Some are 
asymptomatic, others are just not feeling too poorly to stay home 
yet.  But they are a living breathing biological warfare machine.  And 
they can just run free?


How about if they had anthrax or rabies or the plague?  Doesn’t matter?

*From:*Dennis Burgess

*Sent:*Monday, July 26, 2021 6:00 AM

*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

*Cc:*Chuck McCown

*Subject:*RE: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political

Or that other person can ware the condom since they are so afraid of 
it, or maybe they should not be out in public?


*LTI-Full_175px*

*Dennis Burgess*

*
*Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”

*Link Technologies, Inc*-- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services

*Office*: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net 



Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com 



Need MikroTik Cloud Management: https://cloud.linktechs.net 



*From:*AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
*Sent:* Friday, July 23, 2021 6:20 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Cc:* Chuck McCown 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political

AIDS was / Is 100% avoidable.  COVID is like someone with AIDS 
spraying you down with their precious bodily fluids by sneezing. 
People have been prosecuted for infecting others with AIDS.  Why not 
COVID?  If you don’t want the vax, fine but you need a full body 
condom if you come within 100’ of another person.


Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 23, 2021, at 4:24 PM, David Coudron
 wrote:



There are valid reasons for deciding to take this vaccine, the
shingles vaccine, the flu vaccine, or a myriad of other
medications.   Each decision should be based on risk/reward of
that drug and the medical condition being treated.   To think that
you know everyone’s medical situation better than they do doesn’t
seem very feasible and awfully presumptive.   To call them selfish
for making a decision they believe is in their best medical
interest seems overly judgmental. Yes, there are people are
deciding not to take it simply because they think they shouldn’t
be forced to take a medical treatment against their will.   You
may feel that we should force them to take the treatment for the
better good.   I doubt you would feel the same about mandatory
castration of young men to curb overcrowding of the earth.  
Obviously there is a line somewhere about forced treatment for the
greater good.  I am not attempting to determine where that line
is, only suggesting that folks have valid medical reasons for not
deciding to take the vaccine and they shouldn’t be publicly shamed
for making that decision.   It doesn’t seem that far fetched, but
I am learning I see things differently than some other folks.   So
be it.

I love the argument that we have to get vaccinated, but we still
 

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: OT somewhat political

[Robert]

He has said repeatedly that he is good with that.   It's part of his 
"personal freedoms"...  And with that, we define the limit that this 
conversation should go, as he has pushed the envelope to the edge..


On 7/26/21 9:41 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
So, unvacinnated folk that get the virus and walk around for a few 
days breathing on the general public are OK with you?  Some are 
asymptomatic, others are just not feeling too poorly to stay home 
yet.  But they are a living breathing biological warfare machine.  And 
they can just run free?

How about if they had anthrax or rabies or the plague?  Doesn’t matter?
*From:* Dennis Burgess
*Sent:* Monday, July 26, 2021 6:00 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Cc:* Chuck McCown
*Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political

Or that other person can ware the condom since they are so afraid of 
it, or maybe they should not be out in public?


*LTI-Full_175px*

*Dennis Burgess*

*
*Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”

*Link Technologies, Inc*-- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services

*Office*: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net 



Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com 



Need MikroTik Cloud Management: https://cloud.linktechs.net 



*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
*Sent:* Friday, July 23, 2021 6:20 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Cc:* Chuck McCown 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political

AIDS was / Is 100% avoidable.  COVID is like someone with AIDS 
spraying you down with their precious bodily fluids by sneezing.  
People have been prosecuted for infecting others with AIDS.  Why not 
COVID?  If you don’t want the vax, fine but you need a full body 
condom if you come within 100’ of another person.


Sent from my iPhone



On Jul 23, 2021, at 4:24 PM, David Coudron
 wrote:



There are valid reasons for deciding to take this vaccine, the
shingles vaccine, the flu vaccine, or a myriad of other
medications.   Each decision should be based on risk/reward of
that drug and the medical condition being treated.   To think that
you know everyone’s medical situation better than they do doesn’t
seem very feasible and awfully presumptive.   To call them selfish
for making a decision they believe is in their best medical
interest seems overly judgmental. Yes, there are people are
deciding not to take it simply because they think they shouldn’t
be forced to take a medical treatment against their will.   You
may feel that we should force them to take the treatment for the
better good.   I doubt you would feel the same about mandatory
castration of young men to curb overcrowding of the earth.  
Obviously there is a line somewhere about forced treatment for the
greater good.  I am not attempting to determine where that line
is, only suggesting that folks have valid medical reasons for not
deciding to take the vaccine and they shouldn’t be publicly shamed
for making that decision.   It doesn’t seem that far fetched, but
I am learning I see things differently than some other folks.   So
be it.

I love the argument that we have to get vaccinated, but we still
have to act like the vaccine doesn’t work in order to save the
human race.   Seems like a disconnect there.

If we were really so worried about infecting others or causing
harm to others, we would avoid all other activities that create
risk for others.  We’d never drive a car, much less have a beer
and get in a car.   I doubt that very many of us on this list can
say that.  We would never allow the sale of fatty foods.   We
would force each and everyone to get to a body mass within our
accepted range.   Keep in mind life is risky.   We don’t need to
do stupid things, but being alive carries with it the risk of
dying.    We are all much more likely to die of heart disease,
stroke related illness, or cancer than we are of Covid.   Those
are just the facts.  Many folks make small adjustments to reduce
the risk of those  likely causes of mortality, but have long ago
passed on decisions to make big changes to eliminate the
possibility of those causes of death.

I have long ago decided not to live in constant fear of these
things. While I chose to be vaccinated, I respect the right of
folks to make the best choice for their situation.   I also
respect the right of someone who is not in the best physical
condition to eat a steak.   I realize that a drunk driver might
kill me some day, but I respect the right of individuals to go to
a bar and expect that most (but not all) are responsible enough
not to drink and drive when they have had too much.

Keep in mind that this virus would have never come to our country
if we never allowed anyone in or out of it.   But we understand
that certain personal freedom

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: OT somewhat political

[Jan-GAMs]

There is no reasonable excuse for an un-vaxxed person to not suspect 
that they are a carrier.  We have been informed for more than a year 
that asymptomatic covid people can be carriers for an indefinite period 
of time.  There is no reasonable excuse for being un-vaxxed, in public 
and ignorant.  I would vote yes for shoot the bastard and burn the body, 
they are a walking public menace.  This isn't about "freedom", this is 
about public health and hazards to it.


On 7/26/21 9:56 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:

There's a major difference - Typhoid Mary knew that she was a carrier.
Somebody dancing through a crowd with a spray bottle of anthrax is 
intentionally trying to kill people.


An apparently healthy un-vaxxed person, taking reasonable precautions 
is nothing like that.


Sure, somebody that knows they're sick (or even has reason to think 
they might be) and goes out and slobbers all over the general public 
is a similar situation, but nobody is defending that.


On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 11:42 AM Chuck McCown via AF > wrote:


So, unvacinnated folk that get the virus and walk around for a few
days breathing on the general public are OK with you?  Some are
asymptomatic, others are just not feeling too poorly to stay home
yet.  But they are a living breathing biological warfare machine. 
And they can just run free?
How about if they had anthrax or rabies or the plague?  Doesn’t
matter?
*From:* Dennis Burgess
*Sent:* Monday, July 26, 2021 6:00 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Cc:* Chuck McCown
*Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political

Or that other person can ware the condom since they are so afraid
of it, or maybe they should not be out in public?

*LTI-Full_175px*

*Dennis Burgess*

*
*Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”

*Link Technologies, Inc*-- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services

*Office*: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net


Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com

Need MikroTik Cloud Management: https://cloud.linktechs.net


*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
*Sent:* Friday, July 23, 2021 6:20 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Cc:* Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political

AIDS was / Is 100% avoidable.  COVID is like someone with AIDS
spraying you down with their precious bodily fluids by sneezing. 
People have been prosecuted for infecting others with AIDS. Why
not COVID?  If you don’t want the vax, fine but you need a full
body condom if you come within 100’ of another person.

Sent from my iPhone



On Jul 23, 2021, at 4:24 PM, David Coudron
 wrote:



There are valid reasons for deciding to take this vaccine, the
shingles vaccine, the flu vaccine, or a myriad of other
medications.   Each decision should be based on risk/reward of
that drug and the medical condition being treated. To think
that you know everyone’s medical situation better than they do
doesn’t seem very feasible and awfully presumptive.   To call
them selfish for making a decision they believe is in their
best medical interest seems overly judgmental. Yes, there
are people are deciding not to take it simply because they
think they shouldn’t be forced to take a medical treatment
against their will.   You may feel that we should force them
to take the treatment for the better good.   I doubt you would
feel the same about mandatory castration of young men to curb
overcrowding of the earth.   Obviously there is a line
somewhere about forced treatment for the greater good.  I am
not attempting to determine where that line is, only
suggesting that folks have valid medical reasons for not
deciding to take the vaccine and they shouldn’t be publicly
shamed for making that decision.   It doesn’t seem that far
fetched, but I am learning I see things differently than some
other folks.   So be it.

I love the argument that we have to get vaccinated, but we
still have to act like the vaccine doesn’t work in order to
save the human race.   Seems like a disconnect there.

If we were really so worried about infecting others or causing
harm to others, we would avoid all other activities that
create risk for others.  We’d never drive a car, much less
have a beer and get in a car.   I doubt that very many of us
on this list can say that.  We would never allow the sale of
fatty foods.   We would force each and everyone to get to a
body mass within our accepted range. Keep in mind life is
ris

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: OT somewhat political

[Robert]

Um, kinda wonder what the percentage of unvaxxed is that are walking 
around unmasked..   A shudder to think it's probably near 100%...


On 7/26/21 9:56 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:

There's a major difference - Typhoid Mary knew that she was a carrier.
Somebody dancing through a crowd with a spray bottle of anthrax is 
intentionally trying to kill people.


An apparently healthy un-vaxxed person, taking reasonable precautions 
is nothing like that.


Sure, somebody that knows they're sick (or even has reason to think 
they might be) and goes out and slobbers all over the general public 
is a similar situation, but nobody is defending that.


On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 11:42 AM Chuck McCown via AF > wrote:


So, unvacinnated folk that get the virus and walk around for a few
days breathing on the general public are OK with you?  Some are
asymptomatic, others are just not feeling too poorly to stay home
yet.  But they are a living breathing biological warfare machine. 
And they can just run free?
How about if they had anthrax or rabies or the plague?  Doesn’t
matter?
*From:* Dennis Burgess
*Sent:* Monday, July 26, 2021 6:00 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Cc:* Chuck McCown
*Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political

Or that other person can ware the condom since they are so afraid
of it, or maybe they should not be out in public?

*LTI-Full_175px*

*Dennis Burgess*

*
*Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”

*Link Technologies, Inc*-- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services

*Office*: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net


Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com

Need MikroTik Cloud Management: https://cloud.linktechs.net


*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
*Sent:* Friday, July 23, 2021 6:20 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Cc:* Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political

AIDS was / Is 100% avoidable.  COVID is like someone with AIDS
spraying you down with their precious bodily fluids by sneezing. 
People have been prosecuted for infecting others with AIDS. Why
not COVID?  If you don’t want the vax, fine but you need a full
body condom if you come within 100’ of another person.

Sent from my iPhone



On Jul 23, 2021, at 4:24 PM, David Coudron
 wrote:



There are valid reasons for deciding to take this vaccine, the
shingles vaccine, the flu vaccine, or a myriad of other
medications.   Each decision should be based on risk/reward of
that drug and the medical condition being treated. To think
that you know everyone’s medical situation better than they do
doesn’t seem very feasible and awfully presumptive.   To call
them selfish for making a decision they believe is in their
best medical interest seems overly judgmental. Yes, there
are people are deciding not to take it simply because they
think they shouldn’t be forced to take a medical treatment
against their will.   You may feel that we should force them
to take the treatment for the better good.   I doubt you would
feel the same about mandatory castration of young men to curb
overcrowding of the earth.   Obviously there is a line
somewhere about forced treatment for the greater good.  I am
not attempting to determine where that line is, only
suggesting that folks have valid medical reasons for not
deciding to take the vaccine and they shouldn’t be publicly
shamed for making that decision.   It doesn’t seem that far
fetched, but I am learning I see things differently than some
other folks.   So be it.

I love the argument that we have to get vaccinated, but we
still have to act like the vaccine doesn’t work in order to
save the human race.   Seems like a disconnect there.

If we were really so worried about infecting others or causing
harm to others, we would avoid all other activities that
create risk for others.  We’d never drive a car, much less
have a beer and get in a car.   I doubt that very many of us
on this list can say that.  We would never allow the sale of
fatty foods.   We would force each and everyone to get to a
body mass within our accepted range. Keep in mind life is
risky.   We don’t need to do stupid things, but being alive
carries with it the risk of dying.    We are all much more
likely to die of heart disease, stroke related illness, or
cancer than we are of Covid.   Those are just the facts.  Many
folks make small adjustments to reduce the risk of those 
  

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: OT somewhat political

[Chuck McCown via AF]

I have developed some special glasses that detect the change of polarization of 
light reflected off of vaccinated people.  It will be like the walking dead.  

  Being slightly more serious, here is a quote from SCOTUS: 

  At question, then, was whether the “right to refuse vaccination” was among 
those protected personal liberties.

  Justice John Marshall Harlan acknowledged the fundamental importance of 
personal freedom, but also recognized that “the rights of the individual in 
respect of his liberty may at times, under the pressure of great dangers, be 
subjected to such restraint, to be enforced by reasonable regulations, as the 
safety of the general public may demand.”

This was directly related to anti smallpox vaxxers in 1905.

From: Robert 
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 11:26 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: OT somewhat political

Um, kinda wonder what the percentage of unvaxxed is that are walking around 
unmasked..   A shudder to think it's probably near 100%...


On 7/26/21 9:56 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:

  There's a major difference - Typhoid Mary knew that she was a carrier. 

  Somebody dancing through a crowd with a spray bottle of anthrax is 
intentionally trying to kill people.

  An apparently healthy un-vaxxed person, taking reasonable precautions is 
nothing like that. 


  Sure, somebody that knows they're sick (or even has reason to think they 
might be) and goes out and slobbers all over the general public is a similar 
situation, but nobody is defending that.

  On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 11:42 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

So, unvacinnated folk that get the virus and walk around for a few days 
breathing on the general public are OK with you?  Some are asymptomatic, others 
are just not feeling too poorly to stay home yet.  But they are a living 
breathing biological warfare machine.  And they can just run free?

How about if they had anthrax or rabies or the plague?  Doesn’t matter?

From: Dennis Burgess 
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 6:00 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: RE: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political

Or that other person can ware the condom since they are so afraid of it, or 
maybe they should not be out in public? 







Dennis Burgess


Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition” 

Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services 

Office: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net 

Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com 

Need MikroTik Cloud Management: https://cloud.linktechs.net 



From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2021 6:20 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political



AIDS was / Is 100% avoidable.  COVID is like someone with AIDS spraying you 
down with their precious bodily fluids by sneezing.  People have been 
prosecuted for infecting others with AIDS.  Why not COVID?  If you don’t want 
the vax, fine but you need a full body condom if you come within 100’ of 
another person.

Sent from my iPhone





  On Jul 23, 2021, at 4:24 PM, David Coudron  
wrote:

   

  There are valid reasons for deciding to take this vaccine, the shingles 
vaccine, the flu vaccine, or a myriad of other medications.   Each decision 
should be based on risk/reward of that drug and the medical condition being 
treated.   To think that you know everyone’s medical situation better than they 
do doesn’t seem very feasible and awfully presumptive.   To call them selfish 
for making a decision they believe is in their best medical interest seems 
overly judgmental. Yes, there are people are deciding not to take it simply 
because they think they shouldn’t be forced to take a medical treatment against 
their will.   You may feel that we should force them to take the treatment for 
the better good.   I doubt you would feel the same about mandatory castration 
of young men to curb overcrowding of the earth.   Obviously there is a line 
somewhere about forced treatment for the greater good.  I am not attempting to 
determine where that line is, only suggesting that folks have valid medical 
reasons for not deciding to take the vaccine and they shouldn’t be publicly 
shamed for making that decision.   It doesn’t seem that far fetched, but I am 
learning I see things differently than some other folks.   So be it.



  I love the argument that we have to get vaccinated, but we still have to 
act like the vaccine doesn’t work in order to save the human race.   Seems like 
a disconnect there.   



  If we were really so worried about infecting others or causing harm to 
others, we would avoid all other activities that create risk for others.  We’d 
never drive a car, much less have a beer and get in a car.   I doubt that very 
many of us on this list can say that.  We would never allow the sale of fatty 
foods.   We would for

Re: [AFMUG] Test phone

[Jaime Solorza]

Test Phone? As adverb or adjective?

On Mon, Jul 26, 2021, 10:40 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Fw: OT somewhat political

[Bill Prince]

  
  
I read somewhere that they've been training dogs to sniff out
  COVID infectees. Can't remember who or where.


bp

On 7/26/2021 9:50 AM, Chuck McCown via
  AF wrote:


  
  
  
  
  

  I like this:
   
  Contact trace your covid back to the unvaccinated person
that transmitted it.  They get to pay for the
healthcare/death.  
  Having a vax is safe harbor.
   
  Tort law to the rescue! 
  Now we need some covid liability policies.  Unvaxed
people have to have insurance.  Just like if you wanna drive
a car you gotta have insurance because you are a hazard to
everyone else on the road.  You wanna walk free either get
vaxed or get the liability policy.  
   
  Now, how about random stops, or perhaps entry into large
gatherings.  Show the shot card or proof of insurance. 
  The venue is gonna have to track where people are sitting
so they can help assign the blame.  Maybe give all non vaxed
a gps wrist strap that gets tracked throughout the event.  
   
  Or, perhaps we can come up with some of nuclear
backscatter detector that will finger you by just scanning
you.  Immediately get to appear before Judge Dredd.  Or you
get disintegrated on the spot.  
  

   
  
From: Chuck
McCown via AF 
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 10:41 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: [AFMUG] Fw: OT somewhat political
  

 
  
  

  

  

  So, unvacinnated folk that get the virus and
walk around for a few days breathing on the
general public are OK with you?  Some are
asymptomatic, others are just not feeling too
poorly to stay home yet.  But they are a living
breathing biological warfare machine.  And they
can just run free?
   
  How about if they had anthrax or rabies or
the plague?  Doesn’t matter?
  

   
  
From:
  Dennis Burgess

Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 6:00
  AM
To: AnimalFarm
Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Chuck McCown

Subject: RE: [AFMUG] OT somewhat
  political
  

 
  
  

  Or that other person
  can ware the condom since they are so
  afraid of it, or maybe they should not be
  out in public? 
   
  
 

Dennis Burgess

Author of "Learn
RouterOS- Second Edition” 
Link Technologies, Inc
-- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
  
Office:
314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net
  
Create Wireless Coverage’s with
  www.towercoverage.com

Need MikroTik Cloud Management:
https://cloud.linktechs.net

  
   
  

  From: AF
 On
  Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2021 6:20
PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users
Group 
Cc: Chuck McCown

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT somewhat
   

Re: [AFMUG] cut fiber

[Josh Luthman]

Kinda sounds like the residential guy with a $44.95/mo lowest speed plan
complaining he's losing millions on his eBay auctions.

If the uptime is worth it, you need redundancy.  Fiber has problems.
Wireless has problems.  Electronics and software have problems.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 12:40 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:

> Must be nice having unlimited access to resources
> On 7/24/21 9:23 PM, Darin Steffl wrote:
>
> Get a backup connection and use BGP. Not rocket science
>
> On Sat, Jul 24, 2021 at 5:38 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:
>
>> 5 minutes before the auction starts for the 4H club, the fiber backhaul
>> somewhere gets cut.  Several counties got disconnected. Now a whole lot
>> of kids didn't get to sell.  Can you believe this shit?  Of course
>> because we're on-site we get the blame.
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Darin Steffl
> Minnesota WiFi
> www.mnwifi.com
> 507-634-WiFi
> Like us on Facebook 
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Fw: OT somewhat political

[Bill Prince]

In my experience, un-vaxxed people are the least likely to take 
reasonable precautions.



bp


On 7/26/2021 9:56 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:
An apparently healthy un-vaxxed person, taking reasonable precautions 
is nothing like that. 


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Re: [AFMUG] Test phone

[Chuck McCown via AF]

Noun.  Test (from) phone

I laid it between the lines.  

So only those that dig rock and roll music would understand.  


From: Jaime Solorza 
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 11:36 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Test phone

Test Phone? As adverb or adjective? 

On Mon, Jul 26, 2021, 10:40 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:



  Sent from my iPhone


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Re: [AFMUG] Test phone

[Jan-GAMs]

Good tunes deserve good lyrics.  If it isn't SRV is it worth listening to?

On 7/26/21 10:41 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Noun.  Test (from) phone
I laid it between the lines.
So only those that dig rock and roll music would understand.
*From:* Jaime Solorza
*Sent:* Monday, July 26, 2021 11:36 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Test phone
Test Phone? As adverb or adjective?
On Mon, Jul 26, 2021, 10:40 AM Chuck McCown via AF  
wrote:




Sent from my iPhone


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Re: [AFMUG] cut fiber

[Jan-GAMs]

It kind of does, doesn't it.  There aren't that many choices in rural 
America, choices have to be existent in order to get chosen.  And they 
have to be affordable and not in the realm of unaffordobtanium.


On 7/26/21 10:39 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
Kinda sounds like the residential guy with a $44.95/mo lowest speed 
plan complaining he's losing millions on his eBay auctions.


If the uptime is worth it, you need redundancy.  Fiber has problems.  
Wireless has problems.  Electronics and software have problems.


Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 12:40 PM Jan-GAMs > wrote:


Must be nice having unlimited access to resources

On 7/24/21 9:23 PM, Darin Steffl wrote:

Get a backup connection and use BGP. Not rocket science

On Sat, Jul 24, 2021 at 5:38 PM Jan-GAMs mailto:j.vank...@grnacres.net>> wrote:

5 minutes before the auction starts for the 4H club, the
fiber backhaul
somewhere gets cut.  Several counties got disconnected. Now a
whole lot
of kids didn't get to sell.  Can you believe this shit?  Of
course
because we're on-site we get the blame.


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Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com 
507-634-WiFi
Like us on Facebook 

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Re: [AFMUG] cut fiber

[Chuck McCown via AF]

Even a low bandwidth cripple route is better than no alternate route.  
I wonder how easy it would be to set up a traffic shaper that would block all 
streaming when you were on your alternate low BW backup?  Just let email and 
web traffic flow.  

From: Jan-GAMs 
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 11:59 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] cut fiber

It kind of does, doesn't it.  There aren't that many choices in rural America, 
choices have to be existent in order to get chosen.  And they have to be 
affordable and not in the realm of unaffordobtanium.


On 7/26/21 10:39 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

  Kinda sounds like the residential guy with a $44.95/mo lowest speed plan 
complaining he's losing millions on his eBay auctions. 

  If the uptime is worth it, you need redundancy.  Fiber has problems.  
Wireless has problems.  Electronics and software have problems.


  Josh Luthman
  24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373


  On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 12:40 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:

Must be nice having unlimited access to resources


On 7/24/21 9:23 PM, Darin Steffl wrote:

  Get a backup connection and use BGP. Not rocket science

  On Sat, Jul 24, 2021 at 5:38 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:

5 minutes before the auction starts for the 4H club, the fiber backhaul 
somewhere gets cut.  Several counties got disconnected. Now a whole lot 
of kids didn't get to sell.  Can you believe this shit?  Of course 
because we're on-site we get the blame.


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  -- 

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  Minnesota WiFi
  www.mnwifi.com
  507-634-WiFi
  Like us on Facebook

   
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Re: [AFMUG] Fw: OT somewhat political

[James Howard]

Until a Trollhunter comes after you….https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1740707/


From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 12:15 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: OT somewhat political

Sometimes it is fun to be a troll.

Damn paperclips keep sticking to me...

From: Jan-GAMs
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 11:10 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: OT somewhat political


You have a yes vote here
On 7/26/21 9:50 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
I like this:

Contact trace your covid back to the unvaccinated person that transmitted it.  
They get to pay for the healthcare/death.
Having a vax is safe harbor.

Tort law to the rescue!
Now we need some covid liability policies.  Unvaxed people have to have 
insurance.  Just like if you wanna drive a car you gotta have insurance because 
you are a hazard to everyone else on the road.  You wanna walk free either get 
vaxed or get the liability policy.

Now, how about random stops, or perhaps entry into large gatherings.  Show the 
shot card or proof of insurance.
The venue is gonna have to track where people are sitting so they can help 
assign the blame.  Maybe give all non vaxed a gps wrist strap that gets tracked 
throughout the event.

Or, perhaps we can come up with some of nuclear backscatter detector that will 
finger you by just scanning you.  Immediately get to appear before Judge Dredd. 
 Or you get disintegrated on the spot.

From: Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 10:41 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Cc: Chuck McCown
Subject: [AFMUG] Fw: OT somewhat political

So, unvacinnated folk that get the virus and walk around for a few days 
breathing on the general public are OK with you?  Some are asymptomatic, others 
are just not feeling too poorly to stay home yet.  But they are a living 
breathing biological warfare machine.  And they can just run free?

How about if they had anthrax or rabies or the plague?  Doesn’t matter?

From: Dennis Burgess
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 6:00 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Cc: Chuck McCown
Subject: RE: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political

Or that other person can ware the condom since they are so afraid of it, or 
maybe they should not be out in public?


[LTI-Full_175px]
Dennis Burgess

Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
Office: 314-735-0270  Website: 
http://www.linktechs.net
Create Wireless Coverage’s with 
www.towercoverage.com
Need MikroTik Cloud Management: https://cloud.linktechs.net

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2021 6:20 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Cc: Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political

AIDS was / Is 100% avoidable.  COVID is like someone with AIDS spraying you 
down with their precious bodily fluids by sneezing.  People have been 
prosecuted for infecting others with AIDS.  Why not COVID?  If you don’t want 
the vax, fine but you need a full body condom if you come within 100’ of 
another person.
Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 23, 2021, at 4:24 PM, David Coudron 
mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com>> wrote:

There are valid reasons for deciding to take this vaccine, the shingles 
vaccine, the flu vaccine, or a myriad of other medications.   Each decision 
should be based on risk/reward of that drug and the medical condition being 
treated.   To think that you know everyone’s medical situation better than they 
do doesn’t seem very feasible and awfully presumptive.   To call them selfish 
for making a decision they believe is in their best medical interest seems 
overly judgmental. Yes, there are people are deciding not to take it simply 
because they think they shouldn’t be forced to take a medical treatment against 
their will.   You may feel that we should force them to take the treatment for 
the better good.   I doubt you would feel the same about mandatory castration 
of young men to curb overcrowding of the earth.   Obviously there is a line 
somewhere about forced treatment for the greater good.  I am not attempting to 
determine where that line is, only suggesting that folks have valid medical 
reasons for not deciding to take the vaccine and they shouldn’t be publicly 
shamed for making that decision.   It doesn’t seem that far fetched, but I am 
learning I see things differently than some other folks.   So be it.

I love the argument that we have to get vaccinated, but we still have to act 
like the vaccine doesn’t work in order to save the human race.   Seems like a 
disconnect there.

If we were really so worried about infecting others or causing harm to others, 
we would avoid all other activities that create risk for others.  We’d never 
drive a car, much less have a beer and get in a car.   I doubt that very many 
of us on this list 

Re: [AFMUG] cut fiber

[Nate Burke]

I used to think that, but anymore, unless they can stream video, the 
internet is down.  Businesses are different, but residential, if they're 
only partially working, they're 'down' according to the customer.


On 7/26/2021 1:07 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Even a low bandwidth cripple route is better than no alternate route.
I wonder how easy it would be to set up a traffic shaper that would 
block all streaming when you were on your alternate low BW backup?  
Just let email and web traffic flow.

*From:* Jan-GAMs
*Sent:* Monday, July 26, 2021 11:59 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] cut fiber

It kind of does, doesn't it.  There aren't that many choices in rural 
America, choices have to be existent in order to get chosen.  And they 
have to be affordable and not in the realm of unaffordobtanium.


On 7/26/21 10:39 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
Kinda sounds like the residential guy with a $44.95/mo lowest speed 
plan complaining he's losing millions on his eBay auctions.
If the uptime is worth it, you need redundancy. Fiber has problems.  
Wireless has problems. Electronics and software have problems.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 12:40 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:

Must be nice having unlimited access to resources

On 7/24/21 9:23 PM, Darin Steffl wrote:

Get a backup connection and use BGP. Not rocket science
On Sat, Jul 24, 2021 at 5:38 PM Jan-GAMs
 wrote:

5 minutes before the auction starts for the 4H club, the
fiber backhaul
somewhere gets cut.  Several counties got disconnected. Now
a whole lot
of kids didn't get to sell.  Can you believe this shit?  Of
course
because we're on-site we get the blame.


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Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com 
507-634-WiFi
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Re: [AFMUG] cut fiber

[Mathew Howard]

It depends... reasonable people generally appreciate having some kind of
service, but a lot of people seem to get more upset about having a
partially working connection than no connection at all.
It depends on how badly it's crippled too... you could probably get by with
a backup that was only capable of about half your normal bandwidth without
most people noticing the difference.

On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 1:14 PM Nate Burke  wrote:

> I used to think that, but anymore, unless they can stream video, the
> internet is down.  Businesses are different, but residential, if they're
> only partially working, they're 'down' according to the customer.
>
> On 7/26/2021 1:07 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>
> Even a low bandwidth cripple route is better than no alternate route.
> I wonder how easy it would be to set up a traffic shaper that would block
> all streaming when you were on your alternate low BW backup?  Just let
> email and web traffic flow.
>
> *From:* Jan-GAMs
> *Sent:* Monday, July 26, 2021 11:59 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] cut fiber
>
>
> It kind of does, doesn't it.  There aren't that many choices in rural
> America, choices have to be existent in order to get chosen.  And they have
> to be affordable and not in the realm of unaffordobtanium.
> On 7/26/21 10:39 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> Kinda sounds like the residential guy with a $44.95/mo lowest speed plan
> complaining he's losing millions on his eBay auctions.
>
> If the uptime is worth it, you need redundancy.  Fiber has problems.
> Wireless has problems.  Electronics and software have problems.
>
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 12:40 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:
>
>> Must be nice having unlimited access to resources
>> On 7/24/21 9:23 PM, Darin Steffl wrote:
>>
>> Get a backup connection and use BGP. Not rocket science
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 24, 2021 at 5:38 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:
>>
>>> 5 minutes before the auction starts for the 4H club, the fiber backhaul
>>> somewhere gets cut.  Several counties got disconnected. Now a whole lot
>>> of kids didn't get to sell.  Can you believe this shit?  Of course
>>> because we're on-site we get the blame.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> 
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>> Minnesota WiFi
>> www.mnwifi.com
>> 507-634-WiFi
>> Like us on Facebook 
>>
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> 
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>>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Fw: OT somewhat political

[David Coudron]

I thought about whether or not to reply because what seemed like a pointing out 
that it might be OK to respect the decision not to take this vaccine right now 
turned into a pretty hot topic and that wasn’t the intent.   The point wasn’t 
to advocate for no vaccination, ever, but to point out that we should respect 
someone’s decision to hold off for a bit.   Remember when the polio vaccine was 
messed up and early vaccinees (is that a word?) got the live virus by mistake 
and got sick.  Folks that weren’t first on that list were probably feeling 
pretty lucky.   Not suggesting that is happening now, but that there might be 
valid reasons to slow down the immense pressure and negative treatment of 
others for making a decision based their perception of the risk/reward of 
vaccination at this time.   A couple of things that might not make it such a 
black and white decision for some:

Here are the CDC stats for recent deaths.   I would be significantly more 
worried about contracting and dying from pneumonia at this point.   How many of 
you in the age range for the pneumonia vaccine take the vaccine?   Did you even 
know there was one?
https://gis.cdc.gov/grasp/fluview/mortality.html

There has been a lot of discussion about herd immunity and why it is so 
important that everyone gets vaccinated right away.  Here is the data from a 
100% vaccinated country (by March of this year) of Gibraltar:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/gibraltar/
100% vaccination does not equal 100% protection in the case of every disease.   
Pretty good spike of cases long after 100% vaccination was achieved.   Once we 
get to high vaccination rates here, we’ll probably see the same.   This virus 
doesn’t appear to be like small pox, it seems to mutate more like influenza.

Hard to say for sure, but this disease will likely fall into the influenza, 
pneumonia category where we’ll get updated vaccines every year.   The CDC looks 
like they are already tracking it that way.   That will give folks lots of 
chances to yell at the idiots that chose to wait for FDA approval (which looks 
like it might be here as soon as August) 😊 so no need to waste all those words 
now.

I know this disease has been tough on the whole country, but we used to be a 
pretty light-hearted group on this email list.   It wasn’t my intent to 
minimize the disease’s impact (the CDC graph above shows have bad it is/was).  
This list had been very good about looking at facts and not resorting to 
demonizing folks.   It would be too bad if that is no longer the case.

My take away from the CDC information and other information being reported at 
the current time is this:
We are seeing the tailoff of this disease, which is incredibly encouraging.   
We will see spikes again.  Most importantly, the loss of life is very tragic 
and I am not attempting to minimize that.   But, this isn’t small pox, we are 
(unfortunately) not likely to see 100% eradication, but rather, see annual 
boosters and a continued presence of the disease past the next couple of years. 
  Hopefully that is not the case, but it will likely end up permanently on the 
mortality list somewhere between influenza and pneumonia despite our best 
efforts.   Again, could be way off base on this (my handwritten Dr’s degree is 
getting pretty old 😊)

Regards,


From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 12:34 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: OT somewhat political

I have developed some special glasses that detect the change of polarization of 
light reflected off of vaccinated people.  It will be like the walking dead.

Being slightly more serious, here is a quote from SCOTUS:

At question, then, was whether the “right to refuse vaccination” was among 
those protected personal liberties.

Justice John Marshall Harlan acknowledged the fundamental importance of 
personal freedom, but also recognized that “the rights of the individual in 
respect of his liberty may at times, under the pressure of great dangers, be 
subjected to such restraint, to be enforced by reasonable regulations, as the 
safety of the general public may demand.”

This was directly related to anti smallpox vaxxers in 1905.

From: Robert
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 11:26 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: OT somewhat political

Um, kinda wonder what the percentage of unvaxxed is that are walking around 
unmasked..   A shudder to think it's probably near 100%...
On 7/26/21 9:56 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:
There's a major difference - Typhoid Mary knew that she was a carrier.
Somebody dancing through a crowd with a spray bottle of anthrax is 
intentionally trying to kill people.

An apparently healthy un-vaxxed person, taking reasonable precautions is 
nothing like that.

Sure, somebody that knows they're sick (or even has reason to think they might 
be) and goes out and slobbers all over the general public is a similar 
situatio

Re: [AFMUG] T-Mobile PALs and CBRS GAA

[Matt Hoppes]

I understand that... but the SASs have told me they will continue to 
divide the pie up.


On 7/26/21 12:10 PM, Brian Webster wrote:

This is based on conversations with Richard Barnhart who understand this
probably as good as anyone. He did help develop the standards and SAS
requirements.

Just saying that while it's possible for the SAS to do that now, if more
users show up than there are channels there is no first in protections. Make
your business plans accordingly.

Thank you,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com

-Original Message-
From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 11:18 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group; Tyson Burris
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] T-Mobile PALs and CBRS GAA

What equipment are you using?  If 450 make sure you use Frame Type 2 for
LTE Coexxistence.

Then contact your SAS who will promptly kick T-Mobile off of part of the
GAA and allow both of you to coexist nicely.

On 7/25/21 6:24 AM, Tyson Burris wrote:

Good morning AF Geeks-

Someone help me understand this better.  Several questions below.

We operate in six counties in Indiana.  Some rural some not so much.

In our main county (johnson) we are starting to get interference even
when we are connected to the SAS.

While we cannot prove anything yet, each tower we are seeing this on
recently had new T-Mobile equipment deployed.

I reached out to our attorney, Steve Coran, this week and asked him to
pulled the county PAL winners. Listed here:

PAL winners for Johnson County, IN:

XF Wireless Investment, LLC (Comcast) -- 20 MHz

Actel, LLC (CenturyLink) -- 20 MHz

Wetterhorn Wireless L.L.C. (DISH) – 30 MHz

-Century Link has zero cell services of any kind in our county and
currently not deploying in fixed wireless.

-Comcast floats off Verizon

-Dish also has zero cell services of any kind in our count

So what we ended up with is PAL winners who have nothing to offer
locally yet unless subleasing.

Questions are:

is T-Mobile subleasing PAL’s from any of these three?

Is T-Mobile illegally just rotating PAL’s anywhere they want in the
country instead of just local counties?

Anyway to clearly isolate the offending carrier sucking up so much
spectrum and causing all the interference?

Another member brought up T-Mobile as a possible offender.  Did any data
come from that?

What time of the day do the SAS databases sync with each other and does
this force other carriers to cut back on total GAA – share nicely?

Has anyone found the other SAS providers to be better then GOOGLE.
Starting to think their system is worthless or inaccurate.  Truth is I
think this whole concept of spectrum sharing is poorly handled and not
fully tested on 3g.

If a carrier is on the same tower, how will that affect sync?  I ask
because we found some very interesting work arounds and results with
upload when we started playing with sync settings…ie distance, frame,
channel.

If the customer SM is moved from one spot to another or from a roof to a
post how badly does this affect the calculations on the SAS side?

Things we have discovered:

   * Even when we find noise floors on spectrum analysis in a reasonable
 range and move to the cleaner channel on the SAS the interference
 still trashes the uplinks.
   * In some cases the SAS is blocking the cleanest of channels which
 could be PAL related.
   * In some cases customer SM’s going off other ‘unaffected’ sites
 nearby may get knocked offline by the new noise.
   * In some cases we have had to drop off the SAS and found switching to
 other regulatory has allowed us to switch to cleaner channels and
 stabilized subs.  (which is exactly what we shouldn’t be doing)
   * We have a ton of 450m units going on towers as both new and
 upgrades.  I am concerned that the more urban areas will struggle
 with capacity since we have to break this up across multiple sectors.

History and Equipment:

Again this seems very isolated to our more urban deployments which have
historically been awesome in the 50Mhz channels prior to CBRS turn ups.

Our more rural areas are not seeing this issue at all.

All three locations have very specific and brand new T-Mobile equipment
so this has been our assumption of the cause without such proof.

Equipment on these commercial towers has been no more then two 450i AP’s
with KP 120’ sectors (pending 450m upgrades).

*Tyson Burris, President**
**Internet Communications Inc.**
**739 Commerce Dr.**
**Franklin, IN 46131**
***
*Office #**317-738-0320 *
*Cell/Direct #**317-412-1540 *
*Online: **www.surfici.net*

ICI

*What can ICI do for you?*


*Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP
Cameras - Fiber - Towers - Infrastructure.*
**
*CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
*addressee shown. It contains information that is*
*confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
*dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
*unauthorized o

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: OT somewhat political

[Chuck McCown via AF]

100% vaccination in Gibraltar = no more deaths.  

From: David Coudron 
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 1:42 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: RE: [AFMUG] Fw: OT somewhat political

I thought about whether or not to reply because what seemed like a pointing out 
that it might be OK to respect the decision not to take this vaccine right now 
turned into a pretty hot topic and that wasn’t the intent.   The point wasn’t 
to advocate for no vaccination, ever, but to point out that we should respect 
someone’s decision to hold off for a bit.   Remember when the polio vaccine was 
messed up and early vaccinees (is that a word?) got the live virus by mistake 
and got sick.  Folks that weren’t first on that list were probably feeling 
pretty lucky.   Not suggesting that is happening now, but that there might be 
valid reasons to slow down the immense pressure and negative treatment of 
others for making a decision based their perception of the risk/reward of 
vaccination at this time.   A couple of things that might not make it such a 
black and white decision for some:

 

Here are the CDC stats for recent deaths.   I would be significantly more 
worried about contracting and dying from pneumonia at this point.   How many of 
you in the age range for the pneumonia vaccine take the vaccine?   Did you even 
know there was one?

https://gis.cdc.gov/grasp/fluview/mortality.html

 

There has been a lot of discussion about herd immunity and why it is so 
important that everyone gets vaccinated right away.  Here is the data from a 
100% vaccinated country (by March of this year) of Gibraltar:   

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/gibraltar/

100% vaccination does not equal 100% protection in the case of every disease.   
Pretty good spike of cases long after 100% vaccination was achieved.   Once we 
get to high vaccination rates here, we’ll probably see the same.   This virus 
doesn’t appear to be like small pox, it seems to mutate more like influenza. 

 

Hard to say for sure, but this disease will likely fall into the influenza, 
pneumonia category where we’ll get updated vaccines every year.   The CDC looks 
like they are already tracking it that way.   That will give folks lots of 
chances to yell at the idiots that chose to wait for FDA approval (which looks 
like it might be here as soon as August) 😊 so no need to waste all those words 
now.

 

I know this disease has been tough on the whole country, but we used to be a 
pretty light-hearted group on this email list.   It wasn’t my intent to 
minimize the disease’s impact (the CDC graph above shows have bad it is/was).  
This list had been very good about looking at facts and not resorting to 
demonizing folks.   It would be too bad if that is no longer the case.   

 

My take away from the CDC information and other information being reported at 
the current time is this:

We are seeing the tailoff of this disease, which is incredibly encouraging.   
We will see spikes again.  Most importantly, the loss of life is very tragic 
and I am not attempting to minimize that.   But, this isn’t small pox, we are 
(unfortunately) not likely to see 100% eradication, but rather, see annual 
boosters and a continued presence of the disease past the next couple of years. 
  Hopefully that is not the case, but it will likely end up permanently on the 
mortality list somewhere between influenza and pneumonia despite our best 
efforts.   Again, could be way off base on this (my handwritten Dr’s degree is 
getting pretty old 😊)

 

Regards,

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 12:34 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: OT somewhat political

 

I have developed some special glasses that detect the change of polarization of 
light reflected off of vaccinated people.  It will be like the walking dead.  

 

  Being slightly more serious, here is a quote from SCOTUS: 

   

  At question, then, was whether the “right to refuse vaccination” was among 
those protected personal liberties.

   

  Justice John Marshall Harlan acknowledged the fundamental importance of 
personal freedom, but also recognized that “the rights of the individual in 
respect of his liberty may at times, under the pressure of great dangers, be 
subjected to such restraint, to be enforced by reasonable regulations, as the 
safety of the general public may demand.”

 

This was directly related to anti smallpox vaxxers in 1905.

 

From: Robert 

Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 11:26 AM

To: af@af.afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: OT somewhat political

 

Um, kinda wonder what the percentage of unvaxxed is that are walking around 
unmasked..   A shudder to think it's probably near 100%...

On 7/26/21 9:56 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:

  There's a major difference - Typhoid Mary knew that she was a carrier. 

  Somebody dancing through a crowd with a spray bottle of anthrax is 
intentionally trying to

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: OT somewhat political

[Jay Weekley]

When I was diagnosed with Covid I had zero symptoms and my temperature 
was under 98 degrees.  The clinic had me wait in their lobby for two 
hours before swabbing me.   I distanced and wore a mask but there is no 
telling who I infected while following their procedures.


Jan-GAMs wrote:


There is no reasonable excuse for an un-vaxxed person to not suspect 
that they are a carrier.  We have been informed for more than a year 
that asymptomatic covid people can be carriers for an indefinite 
period of time.  There is no reasonable excuse for being un-vaxxed, in 
public and ignorant.  I would vote yes for shoot the bastard and burn 
the body, they are a walking public menace.  This isn't about 
"freedom", this is about public health and hazards to it.


On 7/26/21 9:56 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:

There's a major difference - Typhoid Mary knew that she was a carrier.
Somebody dancing through a crowd with a spray bottle of anthrax is 
intentionally trying to kill people.


An apparently healthy un-vaxxed person, taking reasonable precautions 
is nothing like that.


Sure, somebody that knows they're sick (or even has reason to think 
they might be) and goes out and slobbers all over the general public 
is a similar situation, but nobody is defending that.


On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 11:42 AM Chuck McCown via AF > wrote:


So, unvacinnated folk that get the virus and walk around for a
few days breathing on the general public are OK with you?  Some
are asymptomatic, others are just not feeling too poorly to stay
home yet.  But they are a living breathing biological warfare
machine. And they can just run free?
How about if they had anthrax or rabies or the plague?  Doesn’t
matter?
*From:* Dennis Burgess
*Sent:* Monday, July 26, 2021 6:00 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Cc:* Chuck McCown
*Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political

Or that other person can ware the condom since they are so afraid
of it, or maybe they should not be out in public?

*LTI-Full_175px*

*Dennis Burgess*

*
*Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”

*Link Technologies, Inc*-- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services

*Office*: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net


Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com

Need MikroTik Cloud Management: https://cloud.linktechs.net

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
*Sent:* Friday, July 23, 2021 6:20 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Cc:* Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political

AIDS was / Is 100% avoidable.  COVID is like someone with AIDS
spraying you down with their precious bodily fluids by sneezing.
People have been prosecuted for infecting others with AIDS.  Why
not COVID?  If you don’t want the vax, fine but you need a full
body condom if you come within 100’ of another person.

Sent from my iPhone



On Jul 23, 2021, at 4:24 PM, David Coudron
 wrote:



There are valid reasons for deciding to take this vaccine,
the shingles vaccine, the flu vaccine, or a myriad of other
medications.   Each decision should be based on risk/reward
of that drug and the medical condition being treated. To
think that you know everyone’s medical situation better than
they do doesn’t seem very feasible and awfully presumptive.  
To call them selfish for making a decision they believe is in

their best medical interest seems overly judgmental. Yes,
there are people are deciding not to take it simply because
they think they shouldn’t be forced to take a medical
treatment against their will.   You may feel that we should
force them to take the treatment for the better good.   I
doubt you would feel the same about mandatory castration of
young men to curb overcrowding of the earth.   Obviously
there is a line somewhere about forced treatment for the
greater good.  I am not attempting to determine where that
line is, only suggesting that folks have valid medical
reasons for not deciding to take the vaccine and they
shouldn’t be publicly shamed for making that decision.   It
doesn’t seem that far fetched, but I am learning I see things
differently than some other folks.   So be it.

I love the argument that we have to get vaccinated, but we
still have to act like the vaccine doesn’t work in order to
save the human race.   Seems like a disconnect there.

If we were really so worried about infecting others or
causing harm to others, we would avoid all other activities
that create risk for others.  We’d never drive a car, much
less have a beer and g

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: OT somewhat political

[Chuck McCown via AF]

What caused you to go get tested?

-Original Message- 
From: Jay Weekley

Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 2:17 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: OT somewhat political

When I was diagnosed with Covid I had zero symptoms and my temperature
was under 98 degrees.  The clinic had me wait in their lobby for two
hours before swabbing me.   I distanced and wore a mask but there is no
telling who I infected while following their procedures.

Jan-GAMs wrote:


There is no reasonable excuse for an un-vaxxed person to not suspect that 
they are a carrier.  We have been informed for more than a year that 
asymptomatic covid people can be carriers for an indefinite period of 
time.  There is no reasonable excuse for being un-vaxxed, in public and 
ignorant.  I would vote yes for shoot the bastard and burn the body, they 
are a walking public menace.  This isn't about "freedom", this is about 
public health and hazards to it.


On 7/26/21 9:56 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:

There's a major difference - Typhoid Mary knew that she was a carrier.
Somebody dancing through a crowd with a spray bottle of anthrax is 
intentionally trying to kill people.


An apparently healthy un-vaxxed person, taking reasonable precautions is 
nothing like that.


Sure, somebody that knows they're sick (or even has reason to think they 
might be) and goes out and slobbers all over the general public is a 
similar situation, but nobody is defending that.


On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 11:42 AM Chuck McCown via AF > wrote:


So, unvacinnated folk that get the virus and walk around for a
few days breathing on the general public are OK with you?  Some
are asymptomatic, others are just not feeling too poorly to stay
home yet.  But they are a living breathing biological warfare
machine. And they can just run free?
How about if they had anthrax or rabies or the plague?  Doesn’t
matter?
*From:* Dennis Burgess
*Sent:* Monday, July 26, 2021 6:00 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Cc:* Chuck McCown
*Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political

Or that other person can ware the condom since they are so afraid
of it, or maybe they should not be out in public?

*LTI-Full_175px*

*Dennis Burgess*

*
*Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”

*Link Technologies, Inc*-- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services

*Office*: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net


Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com

Need MikroTik Cloud Management: https://cloud.linktechs.net

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
*Sent:* Friday, July 23, 2021 6:20 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Cc:* Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political

AIDS was / Is 100% avoidable.  COVID is like someone with AIDS
spraying you down with their precious bodily fluids by sneezing.
People have been prosecuted for infecting others with AIDS.  Why
not COVID?  If you don’t want the vax, fine but you need a full
body condom if you come within 100’ of another person.

Sent from my iPhone



On Jul 23, 2021, at 4:24 PM, David Coudron
 wrote:



There are valid reasons for deciding to take this vaccine,
the shingles vaccine, the flu vaccine, or a myriad of other
medications.   Each decision should be based on risk/reward
of that drug and the medical condition being treated. To
think that you know everyone’s medical situation better than
they do doesn’t seem very feasible and awfully presumptive.  To 
call them selfish for making a decision they believe is in

their best medical interest seems overly judgmental. Yes,
there are people are deciding not to take it simply because
they think they shouldn’t be forced to take a medical
treatment against their will.   You may feel that we should
force them to take the treatment for the better good.   I
doubt you would feel the same about mandatory castration of
young men to curb overcrowding of the earth.   Obviously
there is a line somewhere about forced treatment for the
greater good.  I am not attempting to determine where that
line is, only suggesting that folks have valid medical
reasons for not deciding to take the vaccine and they
shouldn’t be publicly shamed for making that decision.   It
doesn’t seem that far fetched, but I am learning I see things
differently than some other folks.   So be it.

I love the argument that we have to get vaccinated, but we
still have to act like the vaccine doesn’t work in order to
save the human race.   Seems like a disconnect there.

If we were really so worried

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: OT somewhat political

[Chuck McCown via AF]

Round them up and ship them to Utah.  We have some internment camps that just 
need to be rebuilt.  I want the food and water concession.  

From: Jan-GAMs 
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 2:22 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: OT somewhat political

That's fine, you can decide not to get the vax, I'm ok with that.  But you 
can't decide to go out into the public and spread what you have.  No vax should 
mean a self-quarrantine.  Stay home, don't expose yourself to others, keep your 
friends and neighbors/community safe.  Do what any good American should do, 
your duty as a citizen.  If you want to go into the public, wear a mask and/or 
get the vax.  Other people have rights too and I don't remember any of those 
rights including being exposed to something that could kill them coming from 
some sick asshole who won't wear a mask or get vaxxed.  Not only that, those 
who continue to spread are destroying our economy, we don't need this.  Get 
vaxed, wear a mask or stay home.  People who have service jobs don't need you 
making them sick just because you didn't want to comply.

My daughter who has a family and supports them working at a service job is now 
sick, it's a break-thru, she had her vax.  She's going into week 2, still very 
ill.  Her husband is worse, her mother got it, her brother is a cop, hasn't 
been to work in over a week, they're all sick.  My brother-in-law didn't get 
vaxxed, he was an avid fox-channel viewer, he was convinced covid was a hoax, 
afraid he would become magnetic or get chipped.  How many more have to get sick 
so you can have your fake "freedom"?


On 7/26/21 12:42 PM, David Coudron wrote:

  I thought about whether or not to reply because what seemed like a pointing 
out that it might be OK to respect the decision not to take this vaccine right 
now turned into a pretty hot topic and that wasn’t the intent.   The point 
wasn’t to advocate for no vaccination, ever, but to point out that we should 
respect someone’s decision to hold off for a bit.   Remember when the polio 
vaccine was messed up and early vaccinees (is that a word?) got the live virus 
by mistake and got sick.  Folks that weren’t first on that list were probably 
feeling pretty lucky.   Not suggesting that is happening now, but that there 
might be valid reasons to slow down the immense pressure and negative treatment 
of others for making a decision based their perception of the risk/reward of 
vaccination at this time.   A couple of things that might not make it such a 
black and white decision for some:

   

  Here are the CDC stats for recent deaths.   I would be significantly more 
worried about contracting and dying from pneumonia at this point.   How many of 
you in the age range for the pneumonia vaccine take the vaccine?   Did you even 
know there was one?

  https://gis.cdc.gov/grasp/fluview/mortality.html

   

  There has been a lot of discussion about herd immunity and why it is so 
important that everyone gets vaccinated right away.  Here is the data from a 
100% vaccinated country (by March of this year) of Gibraltar:   

  https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/gibraltar/

  100% vaccination does not equal 100% protection in the case of every disease. 
  Pretty good spike of cases long after 100% vaccination was achieved.   Once 
we get to high vaccination rates here, we’ll probably see the same.   This 
virus doesn’t appear to be like small pox, it seems to mutate more like 
influenza. 

   

  Hard to say for sure, but this disease will likely fall into the influenza, 
pneumonia category where we’ll get updated vaccines every year.   The CDC looks 
like they are already tracking it that way.   That will give folks lots of 
chances to yell at the idiots that chose to wait for FDA approval (which looks 
like it might be here as soon as August) 😊 so no need to waste all those words 
now.

   

  I know this disease has been tough on the whole country, but we used to be a 
pretty light-hearted group on this email list.   It wasn’t my intent to 
minimize the disease’s impact (the CDC graph above shows have bad it is/was).  
This list had been very good about looking at facts and not resorting to 
demonizing folks.   It would be too bad if that is no longer the case.   

   

  My take away from the CDC information and other information being reported at 
the current time is this:

  We are seeing the tailoff of this disease, which is incredibly encouraging.   
We will see spikes again.  Most importantly, the loss of life is very tragic 
and I am not attempting to minimize that.   But, this isn’t small pox, we are 
(unfortunately) not likely to see 100% eradication, but rather, see annual 
boosters and a continued presence of the disease past the next couple of years. 
  Hopefully that is not the case, but it will likely end up permanently on the 
mortality list somewhere between influenza and pneumonia despite our best 
efforts.   Again, could be way off base on this (my h

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: OT somewhat political

[Jaime Solorza]

Excellent points Chuck

On Mon, Jul 26, 2021, 10:42 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Nobody, that is a preventable hazard to all others should have their
> liberty.  That is why Typhoid Mary was imprisoned on Brothers Island.
>
> That is why people that are criminally insane and violent are locked up in
> jail.
>
> If someone started dancing through a crowd with a spray bottle of anthrax,
> they would go to jail.
>
> A non vaxed person carrying and spreading the virus is the same as that
> person.  They are knowingly exposing the general public to an ever
> increasing risk of covid transmission.  They may not even realize they have
> it if they are an asymptomatic carrier.
>
> You cannot control deer in the road, you can control Covid spreading.
>
> *From:* Dennis Burgess
> *Sent:* Monday, July 26, 2021 9:59 AM
> *To:* Chuck McCown
> *Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political
>
>
> Nope, personal freedom is something everyone is entitled to..You and I
> take chances every time we go out, maybe a drunk driver will hit us, maybe
> a deer will run into the road. Who knows.  It is what it is.   If you live
> in fear, that’s your issue.  A vaxxed person can do what they want, just as
> the unvaccinated person.
>
>
>
>
>
> *[image: LTI-Full_175px]*
>
> *Dennis Burgess*
>
>
> Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
>
> *Link Technologies, Inc* -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>
> *Office*: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net
>
> Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com
>
> Need MikroTik Cloud Management: https://cloud.linktechs.net
>
>
>
> *From:* Chuck McCown 
> *Sent:* Monday, July 26, 2021 10:56 AM
> *To:* Dennis Burgess 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political
>
>
>
> So, unvacinnated folk that get the virus and walk around for a few days
> breathing on the general public are OK with you?  Some are asymptomatic,
> others are just not feeling too poorly to stay home yet.  But they are a
> living breathing biological warfare machine.  And they can just run free?
>
>
>
> How about if they had anthrax or rabies or the plague?  Doesn’t matter?
>
>
>
> *From:* Dennis Burgess
>
> *Sent:* Monday, July 26, 2021 6:00 AM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
>
> *Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political
>
>
>
> Or that other person can ware the condom since they are so afraid of it,
> or maybe they should not be out in public?
>
>
>
>
>
> *[image: LTI-Full_175px]*
>
> *Dennis Burgess*
>
>
> Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
>
> *Link Technologies, Inc* -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>
> *Office*: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net
>
> Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com
>
> Need MikroTik Cloud Management: https://cloud.linktechs.net
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Friday, July 23, 2021 6:20 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political
>
>
>
> AIDS was / Is 100% avoidable.  COVID is like someone with AIDS spraying
> you down with their precious bodily fluids by sneezing.  People have been
> prosecuted for infecting others with AIDS.  Why not COVID?  If you don’t
> want the vax, fine but you need a full body condom if you come within 100’
> of another person.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On Jul 23, 2021, at 4:24 PM, David Coudron 
> wrote:
>
> 
>
> There are valid reasons for deciding to take this vaccine, the shingles
> vaccine, the flu vaccine, or a myriad of other medications.   Each decision
> should be based on risk/reward of that drug and the medical condition being
> treated.   To think that you know everyone’s medical situation better than
> they do doesn’t seem very feasible and awfully presumptive.   To call them
> selfish for making a decision they believe is in their best medical
> interest seems overly judgmental. Yes, there are people are deciding
> not to take it simply because they think they shouldn’t be forced to take a
> medical treatment against their will.   You may feel that we should force
> them to take the treatment for the better good.   I doubt you would feel
> the same about mandatory castration of young men to curb overcrowding of
> the earth.   Obviously there is a line somewhere about forced treatment for
> the greater good.  I am not attempting to determine where that line is,
> only suggesting that folks have valid medical reasons for not deciding to
> take the vaccine and they shouldn’t be publicly shamed for making that
> decision.   It doesn’t seem that far fetched, but I am learning I see
> things differently than some other folks.   So be it.
>
>
>
> I love the argument that we have to get vaccinated, but we still have to
> act like the vaccine doesn’t work in order to save the human race.   Seems
> like a disconnect there.
>
>
>
> If we were really so worried about infecting others or causing harm to
> others, we would avoid all other activities that create

Re: [AFMUG] Test phone

[Jaime Solorza]

No entiendo.

On Mon, Jul 26, 2021, 11:42 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Noun.  Test (from) phone
>
> I laid it between the lines.
>
> So only those that dig rock and roll music would understand.
>
>
> *From:* Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Monday, July 26, 2021 11:36 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Test phone
>
> Test Phone? As adverb or adjective?
>
> On Mon, Jul 26, 2021, 10:40 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Test phone

[Chuck McCown via AF]

https://youtu.be/iqY35SYsyfQ

From: Jaime Solorza 
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 3:06 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Test phone

No entiendo.

On Mon, Jul 26, 2021, 11:42 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

  Noun.  Test (from) phone

  I laid it between the lines.  

  So only those that dig rock and roll music would understand.  


  From: Jaime Solorza 
  Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 11:36 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Test phone

  Test Phone? As adverb or adjective? 

  On Mon, Jul 26, 2021, 10:40 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:



Sent from my iPhone


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AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Test phone

[Jaime Solorza]

Groovy

On Mon, Jul 26, 2021, 3:14 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> https://youtu.be/iqY35SYsyfQ
>
> *From:* Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Monday, July 26, 2021 3:06 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Test phone
>
> No entiendo.
>
> On Mon, Jul 26, 2021, 11:42 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> Noun.  Test (from) phone
>>
>> I laid it between the lines.
>>
>> So only those that dig rock and roll music would understand.
>>
>>
>> *From:* Jaime Solorza
>> *Sent:* Monday, July 26, 2021 11:36 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Test phone
>>
>> Test Phone? As adverb or adjective?
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 26, 2021, 10:40 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Fw: OT somewhat political

[Jay Weekley]

I was exposed a few days earlier.

Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

What caused you to go get tested?

-Original Message- From: Jay Weekley
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 2:17 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: OT somewhat political

When I was diagnosed with Covid I had zero symptoms and my temperature
was under 98 degrees.  The clinic had me wait in their lobby for two
hours before swabbing me.   I distanced and wore a mask but there is no
telling who I infected while following their procedures.

Jan-GAMs wrote:


There is no reasonable excuse for an un-vaxxed person to not suspect 
that they are a carrier.  We have been informed for more than a year 
that asymptomatic covid people can be carriers for an indefinite 
period of time.  There is no reasonable excuse for being un-vaxxed, 
in public and ignorant.  I would vote yes for shoot the bastard and 
burn the body, they are a walking public menace.  This isn't about 
"freedom", this is about public health and hazards to it.


On 7/26/21 9:56 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:

There's a major difference - Typhoid Mary knew that she was a carrier.
Somebody dancing through a crowd with a spray bottle of anthrax is 
intentionally trying to kill people.


An apparently healthy un-vaxxed person, taking reasonable 
precautions is nothing like that.


Sure, somebody that knows they're sick (or even has reason to think 
they might be) and goes out and slobbers all over the general public 
is a similar situation, but nobody is defending that.


On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 11:42 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> wrote:


So, unvacinnated folk that get the virus and walk around for a
few days breathing on the general public are OK with you? Some
are asymptomatic, others are just not feeling too poorly to stay
home yet.  But they are a living breathing biological warfare
machine. And they can just run free?
How about if they had anthrax or rabies or the plague? Doesn’t
matter?
*From:* Dennis Burgess
*Sent:* Monday, July 26, 2021 6:00 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Cc:* Chuck McCown
*Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political

Or that other person can ware the condom since they are so afraid
of it, or maybe they should not be out in public?

*LTI-Full_175px*

*Dennis Burgess*

*
*Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”

*Link Technologies, Inc*-- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services

*Office*: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net


Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com

Need MikroTik Cloud Management: https://cloud.linktechs.net

*From:* AF > *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown 
via AF

*Sent:* Friday, July 23, 2021 6:20 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Cc:* Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political

AIDS was / Is 100% avoidable.  COVID is like someone with AIDS
spraying you down with their precious bodily fluids by sneezing.
People have been prosecuted for infecting others with AIDS.  Why
not COVID?  If you don’t want the vax, fine but you need a full
body condom if you come within 100’ of another person.

Sent from my iPhone



On Jul 23, 2021, at 4:24 PM, David Coudron
 wrote:



There are valid reasons for deciding to take this vaccine,
the shingles vaccine, the flu vaccine, or a myriad of other
medications.   Each decision should be based on risk/reward
of that drug and the medical condition being treated. To
think that you know everyone’s medical situation better than
they do doesn’t seem very feasible and awfully presumptive.  
To call them selfish for making a decision they believe is in

their best medical interest seems overly judgmental. Yes,
there are people are deciding not to take it simply because
they think they shouldn’t be forced to take a medical
treatment against their will.   You may feel that we should
force them to take the treatment for the better good.   I
doubt you would feel the same about mandatory castration of
young men to curb overcrowding of the earth. Obviously
there is a line somewhere about forced treatment for the
greater good.  I am not attempting to determine where that
line is, only suggesting that folks have valid medical
reasons for not deciding to take the vaccine and they
shouldn’t be publicly shamed for making that decision.   It
doesn’t seem that far fetched, but I am learning I see things
differently than some other folks.   So be it.

I love the argument that we have to get vaccinated, but we
still have to act like the vaccine doesn’t work in order to
save the human race.   Seem