[AFMUG] resistivity of cat5

[Steve Jones]

I have a customer fixed on using
https://i.mt.lv/cdn/product_files/GPeRqg_190928.pdf to extend his epmp f300
radio run to 400+ feet.
if im calculating this right there will be about a 10v drop on the
24guage cat5, taking the 30v down to 20. If it does manage to keep the
radio powered i see it burning out the poe circuit.

hes fighting me on putting the cambium PSU at the midspan point and using
his own POE to power the extender.

Ive been overruled about telling the customer no, so its happening, but I
want to make sure my math is correct
using https://www.rapidtables.com/calc/wire/voltage-drop-calculator.html
24guage, 30v, .5 amp, 400 feet shows 10v drop. but im not sure about the
resistivity field

this is a guy who runs constant latency monitoring and initiates tickets on
every blip, so i see this radio move just becoming a nightmare with this
midspan extender in play
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] resistivity of cat5

[Mathew Howard]

That isn't right... you aren't using a pair of 24 gauge, not a single wire,
so it's effectively 21 gauge, but that's still saying a 5v drop at 400, but
a Force 300 is also going to be closer to .25 amp load during normal
operation, so you're looking at more like a 2.5v drop, assuming the
resistivity is correct.

Anyway, I'd expect it to work just fine.

On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 10:18 AM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> I have a customer fixed on using
> https://i.mt.lv/cdn/product_files/GPeRqg_190928.pdf to extend his epmp
> f300 radio run to 400+ feet.
> if im calculating this right there will be about a 10v drop on the
> 24guage cat5, taking the 30v down to 20. If it does manage to keep the
> radio powered i see it burning out the poe circuit.
>
> hes fighting me on putting the cambium PSU at the midspan point and using
> his own POE to power the extender.
>
> Ive been overruled about telling the customer no, so its happening, but I
> want to make sure my math is correct
> using https://www.rapidtables.com/calc/wire/voltage-drop-calculator.html
> 24guage, 30v, .5 amp, 400 feet shows 10v drop. but im not sure about the
> resistivity field
>
> this is a guy who runs constant latency monitoring and initiates tickets
> on every blip, so i see this radio move just becoming a nightmare with this
> midspan extender in play
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] resistivity of cat5

[Mark Radabaugh]

Put 48V into it and it should take care of regulating the voltage at the far 
end (if the spec sheet is to be believed.

The bigger issue is likely to be that it goes *kaboom* with every nearby 
lightning strike.Run fiber.

Mark

> On Sep 1, 2021, at 11:16 AM, Steve Jones  wrote:
> 
> I have a customer fixed on using 
> https://i.mt.lv/cdn/product_files/GPeRqg_190928.pdf 
>  to extend his epmp f300 
> radio run to 400+ feet.
> if im calculating this right there will be about a 10v drop on the 24guage 
> cat5, taking the 30v down to 20. If it does manage to keep the radio powered 
> i see it burning out the poe circuit.
> 
> hes fighting me on putting the cambium PSU at the midspan point and using his 
> own POE to power the extender.
> 
> Ive been overruled about telling the customer no, so its happening, but I 
> want to make sure my math is correct
> using https://www.rapidtables.com/calc/wire/voltage-drop-calculator.html 
> 
> 24guage, 30v, .5 amp, 400 feet shows 10v drop. but im not sure about the 
> resistivity field
> 
> this is a guy who runs constant latency monitoring and initiates tickets on 
> every blip, so i see this radio move just becoming a nightmare with this 
> midspan extender in play
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] resistivity of cat5

[Chuck McCown via AF]

The POE inserter is indoors only rated.  If you wanted to make sure the radio 
has full voltage you would want to put this device out by the radio.  

I fully agree with you, put the cambium PSU as far down the line as you can.  

You are probably using at least 4 if not all 8 wires for the POE.  So you have 
4 wires down and 4 wires back.  That is 1/4the the voltage drop.  If you have 
one down, with 10 volts drop, then another 10 volts for the return wire.  You 
gotta calculate full loop length not just one way for the loop resistance.  

800’ loop has 20 volts of overall drop at .5 amp.  But 4 of them in parallel 
has 10 ohms with 5 volts drop.

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Wednesday, September 1, 2021 9:16 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] resistivity of cat5

I have a customer fixed on using 
https://i.mt.lv/cdn/product_files/GPeRqg_190928.pdf to extend his epmp f300 
radio run to 400+ feet. 
if im calculating this right there will be about a 10v drop on the 24guage 
cat5, taking the 30v down to 20. If it does manage to keep the radio powered i 
see it burning out the poe circuit.

hes fighting me on putting the cambium PSU at the midspan point and using his 
own POE to power the extender.

Ive been overruled about telling the customer no, so its happening, but I want 
to make sure my math is correct
using https://www.rapidtables.com/calc/wire/voltage-drop-calculator.html
24guage, 30v, .5 amp, 400 feet shows 10v drop. but im not sure about the 
resistivity field

this is a guy who runs constant latency monitoring and initiates tickets on 
every blip, so i see this radio move just becoming a nightmare with this 
midspan extender in play



-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] resistivity of cat5

[Steve Jones]

i dont recall if these have the heater in them like the other epmp. winter
is going to be  problem

I dont understand letting customers do things outside the demarc. I voiced
my opinion and got over ruled, so time will tell.

A fiber media converter would be the bees knees, solve a bunch of issues.
but why make sense when we can cobblefuck, right?

On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 10:48 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> The POE inserter is indoors only rated.  If you wanted to make sure the
> radio has full voltage you would want to put this device out by the radio.
>
> I fully agree with you, put the cambium PSU as far down the line as you
> can.
>
> You are probably using at least 4 if not all 8 wires for the POE.  So you
> have 4 wires down and 4 wires back.  That is 1/4the the voltage drop.  If
> you have one down, with 10 volts drop, then another 10 volts for the return
> wire.  You gotta calculate full loop length not just one way for the loop
> resistance.
>
> 800’ loop has 20 volts of overall drop at .5 amp.  But 4 of them in
> parallel has 10 ohms with 5 volts drop.
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 1, 2021 9:16 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] resistivity of cat5
>
> I have a customer fixed on using
> https://i.mt.lv/cdn/product_files/GPeRqg_190928.pdf to extend his epmp
> f300 radio run to 400+ feet.
> if im calculating this right there will be about a 10v drop on the 24guage
> cat5, taking the 30v down to 20. If it does manage to keep the radio
> powered i see it burning out the poe circuit.
>
> hes fighting me on putting the cambium PSU at the midspan point and using
> his own POE to power the extender.
>
> Ive been overruled about telling the customer no, so its happening, but I
> want to make sure my math is correct
> using https://www.rapidtables.com/calc/wire/voltage-drop-calculator.html
> 24guage, 30v, .5 amp, 400 feet shows 10v drop. but im not sure about the
> resistivity field
>
> this is a guy who runs constant latency monitoring and initiates tickets
> on every blip, so i see this radio move just becoming a nightmare with this
> midspan extender in play
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] resistivity of cat5

[Mathew Howard]

The Mikrotik thing doesn't appear to be doing anything with voltage, the
poe is just a passthrough (and to power it), it's purpose is to extend the
ethernet beyond 100 meters... I'm assuming it's basically just a 2 port
switch with poe in on one port and out on the other, so you'd want it
somewhere in the middle of the cable (I'd put it somewhere around the 300'
mark), It's not outdoor rated, but they do sell an IP67 case for it.

You don't want to pump 48v into that, as it would fry the Force 300.

Force 300's do have a heater, but I doubt it would be an issue. If I
remember correctly, Force 300s will work down to something like 10v, so you
can deal with a lot of voltage drop... worst case, you might need a higher
current power supply than the standard.

On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 10:57 AM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> i dont recall if these have the heater in them like the other epmp. winter
> is going to be  problem
>
> I dont understand letting customers do things outside the demarc. I voiced
> my opinion and got over ruled, so time will tell.
>
> A fiber media converter would be the bees knees, solve a bunch of issues.
> but why make sense when we can cobblefuck, right?
>
> On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 10:48 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> The POE inserter is indoors only rated.  If you wanted to make sure the
>> radio has full voltage you would want to put this device out by the radio.
>>
>> I fully agree with you, put the cambium PSU as far down the line as you
>> can.
>>
>> You are probably using at least 4 if not all 8 wires for the POE.  So you
>> have 4 wires down and 4 wires back.  That is 1/4the the voltage drop.  If
>> you have one down, with 10 volts drop, then another 10 volts for the return
>> wire.  You gotta calculate full loop length not just one way for the loop
>> resistance.
>>
>> 800’ loop has 20 volts of overall drop at .5 amp.  But 4 of them in
>> parallel has 10 ohms with 5 volts drop.
>>
>> *From:* Steve Jones
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 1, 2021 9:16 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] resistivity of cat5
>>
>> I have a customer fixed on using
>> https://i.mt.lv/cdn/product_files/GPeRqg_190928.pdf to extend his epmp
>> f300 radio run to 400+ feet.
>> if im calculating this right there will be about a 10v drop on the
>> 24guage cat5, taking the 30v down to 20. If it does manage to keep the
>> radio powered i see it burning out the poe circuit.
>>
>> hes fighting me on putting the cambium PSU at the midspan point and using
>> his own POE to power the extender.
>>
>> Ive been overruled about telling the customer no, so its happening, but I
>> want to make sure my math is correct
>> using https://www.rapidtables.com/calc/wire/voltage-drop-calculator.html
>> 24guage, 30v, .5 amp, 400 feet shows 10v drop. but im not sure about the
>> resistivity field
>>
>> this is a guy who runs constant latency monitoring and initiates tickets
>> on every blip, so i see this radio move just becoming a nightmare with this
>> midspan extender in play
>>
>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] resistivity of cat5

[Adam Moffett]

Maybe a dumb question, but has it already been tried without the extender?

400ft is beyond 100m, but not by all that much.  It might just work 
without any faffing around.



On 9/1/2021 11:16 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
I have a customer fixed on using 
https://i.mt.lv/cdn/product_files/GPeRqg_190928.pdf 
 to extend his 
epmp f300 radio run to 400+ feet.
if im calculating this right there will be about a 10v drop on the 
24guage cat5, taking the 30v down to 20. If it does manage to keep the 
radio powered i see it burning out the poe circuit.


hes fighting me on putting the cambium PSU at the midspan point and 
using his own POE to power the extender.


Ive been overruled about telling the customer no, so its happening, 
but I want to make sure my math is correct
using 
https://www.rapidtables.com/calc/wire/voltage-drop-calculator.html 

24guage, 30v, .5 amp, 400 feet shows 10v drop. but im not sure about 
the resistivity field


this is a guy who runs constant latency monitoring and initiates 
tickets on every blip, so i see this radio move just becoming a 
nightmare with this midspan extender in play


-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] resistivity of cat5

[Steve Jones]

thats what i suggested trying first, customer wanted the extender,
irritating

he finally has caved now and will be putting a network rack in the midpoint
and is going to place a managed switch there instead of all this other
unsupportable cobbling. Sometimes we get a win.

On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 11:55 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> Maybe a dumb question, but has it already been tried without the
> extender?
>
> 400ft is beyond 100m, but not by all that much.  It might just work
> without any faffing around.
>
>
> On 9/1/2021 11:16 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> I have a customer fixed on using
> https://i.mt.lv/cdn/product_files/GPeRqg_190928.pdf to extend his epmp
> f300 radio run to 400+ feet.
> if im calculating this right there will be about a 10v drop on the
> 24guage cat5, taking the 30v down to 20. If it does manage to keep the
> radio powered i see it burning out the poe circuit.
>
> hes fighting me on putting the cambium PSU at the midspan point and using
> his own POE to power the extender.
>
> Ive been overruled about telling the customer no, so its happening, but I
> want to make sure my math is correct
> using https://www.rapidtables.com/calc/wire/voltage-drop-calculator.html
> 24guage, 30v, .5 amp, 400 feet shows 10v drop. but im not sure about the
> resistivity field
>
> this is a guy who runs constant latency monitoring and initiates tickets
> on every blip, so i see this radio move just becoming a nightmare with this
> midspan extender in play
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] resistivity of cat5

[Chuck McCown via AF]

When he does this, just for shits connect the PSU at the beginning and bridge 
all the middle stuff and just see if it works.  I will be it will be just fine. 
 

However I am certain he needs a ton of surge protectors at each end of all 
ethernet runs just sayin’

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Wednesday, September 1, 2021 11:26 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] resistivity of cat5

thats what i suggested trying first, customer wanted the extender, irritating 

he finally has caved now and will be putting a network rack in the midpoint and 
is going to place a managed switch there instead of all this other 
unsupportable cobbling. Sometimes we get a win.

On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 11:55 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

  Maybe a dumb question, but has it already been tried without the extender?  


  400ft is beyond 100m, but not by all that much.  It might just work without 
any faffing around.



  On 9/1/2021 11:16 AM, Steve Jones wrote:

I have a customer fixed on using 
https://i.mt.lv/cdn/product_files/GPeRqg_190928.pdf to extend his epmp f300 
radio run to 400+ feet. 
if im calculating this right there will be about a 10v drop on the 24guage 
cat5, taking the 30v down to 20. If it does manage to keep the radio powered i 
see it burning out the poe circuit.

hes fighting me on putting the cambium PSU at the midspan point and using 
his own POE to power the extender.

Ive been overruled about telling the customer no, so its happening, but I 
want to make sure my math is correct
using https://www.rapidtables.com/calc/wire/voltage-drop-calculator.html
24guage, 30v, .5 amp, 400 feet shows 10v drop. but im not sure about the 
resistivity field

this is a guy who runs constant latency monitoring and initiates tickets on 
every blip, so i see this radio move just becoming a nightmare with this 
midspan extender in play

 
  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] resistivity of cat5

[Adam Moffett]

+1
Use SS or blow ports up during thunderstorms.  Those are the only two 
options.


Chuck should open a trenchcoat to reveal an assortment of surge 
protectors inside.



On 9/1/2021 2:15 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
When he does this, just for shits connect the PSU at the beginning and 
bridge all the middle stuff and just see if it works.  I will be it 
will be just fine.
However I am certain he needs a ton of surge protectors at each end of 
all ethernet runs just sayin’

*From:* Steve Jones
*Sent:* Wednesday, September 1, 2021 11:26 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] resistivity of cat5
thats what i suggested trying first, customer wanted the extender, 
irritating
he finally has caved now and will be putting a network rack in the 
midpoint and is going to place a managed switch there instead of all 
this other unsupportable cobbling. Sometimes we get a win.

On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 11:55 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

Maybe a dumb question, but has it already been tried without the
extender?

400ft is beyond 100m, but not by all that much.  It might just
work without any faffing around.

On 9/1/2021 11:16 AM, Steve Jones wrote:

I have a customer fixed on using
https://i.mt.lv/cdn/product_files/GPeRqg_190928.pdf
 to extend
his epmp f300 radio run to 400+ feet.
if im calculating this right there will be about a 10v drop on
the 24guage cat5, taking the 30v down to 20. If it does manage to
keep the radio powered i see it burning out the poe circuit.
hes fighting me on putting the cambium PSU at the midspan point
and using his own POE to power the extender.
Ive been overruled about telling the customer no, so its
happening, but I want to make sure my math is correct
using
https://www.rapidtables.com/calc/wire/voltage-drop-calculator.html

24guage, 30v, .5 amp, 400 feet shows 10v drop. but im not sure
about the resistivity field
this is a guy who runs constant latency monitoring and initiates
tickets on every blip, so i see this radio move just becoming a
nightmare with this midspan extender in play

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] resistivity of cat5

[Steve Jones]

[image: 5lk6g2.jpg]

On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 1:20 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> +1
> Use SS or blow ports up during thunderstorms.  Those are the only two
> options.
>
> Chuck should open a trenchcoat to reveal an assortment of surge protectors
> inside.
>
>
> On 9/1/2021 2:15 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>
> When he does this, just for shits connect the PSU at the beginning and
> bridge all the middle stuff and just see if it works.  I will be it will be
> just fine.
>
> However I am certain he needs a ton of surge protectors at each end of all
> ethernet runs just sayin’
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 1, 2021 11:26 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] resistivity of cat5
>
> thats what i suggested trying first, customer wanted the extender,
> irritating
>
> he finally has caved now and will be putting a network rack in the
> midpoint and is going to place a managed switch there instead of all this
> other unsupportable cobbling. Sometimes we get a win.
>
> On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 11:55 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> Maybe a dumb question, but has it already been tried without the
>> extender?
>>
>> 400ft is beyond 100m, but not by all that much.  It might just work
>> without any faffing around.
>>
>>
>> On 9/1/2021 11:16 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>
>> I have a customer fixed on using
>> https://i.mt.lv/cdn/product_files/GPeRqg_190928.pdf to extend his epmp
>> f300 radio run to 400+ feet.
>> if im calculating this right there will be about a 10v drop on the
>> 24guage cat5, taking the 30v down to 20. If it does manage to keep the
>> radio powered i see it burning out the poe circuit.
>>
>> hes fighting me on putting the cambium PSU at the midspan point and using
>> his own POE to power the extender.
>>
>> Ive been overruled about telling the customer no, so its happening, but I
>> want to make sure my math is correct
>> using https://www.rapidtables.com/calc/wire/voltage-drop-calculator.html
>> 24guage, 30v, .5 amp, 400 feet shows 10v drop. but im not sure about the
>> resistivity field
>>
>> this is a guy who runs constant latency monitoring and initiates tickets
>> on every blip, so i see this radio move just becoming a nightmare with this
>> midspan extender in play
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] resistivity of cat5

[Chuck McCown via AF]

Might get me on some kind of offender registry.  

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Wednesday, September 1, 2021 12:19 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] resistivity of cat5

+1 
Use SS or blow ports up during thunderstorms.  Those are the only two options.

Chuck should open a trenchcoat to reveal an assortment of surge protectors 
inside.  




On 9/1/2021 2:15 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

  When he does this, just for shits connect the PSU at the beginning and bridge 
all the middle stuff and just see if it works.  I will be it will be just fine. 
 

  However I am certain he needs a ton of surge protectors at each end of all 
ethernet runs just sayin’

  From: Steve Jones 
  Sent: Wednesday, September 1, 2021 11:26 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] resistivity of cat5

  thats what i suggested trying first, customer wanted the extender, irritating 

  he finally has caved now and will be putting a network rack in the midpoint 
and is going to place a managed switch there instead of all this other 
unsupportable cobbling. Sometimes we get a win.

  On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 11:55 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

Maybe a dumb question, but has it already been tried without the extender?  


400ft is beyond 100m, but not by all that much.  It might just work without 
any faffing around.



On 9/1/2021 11:16 AM, Steve Jones wrote:

  I have a customer fixed on using 
https://i.mt.lv/cdn/product_files/GPeRqg_190928.pdf to extend his epmp f300 
radio run to 400+ feet. 
  if im calculating this right there will be about a 10v drop on the 
24guage cat5, taking the 30v down to 20. If it does manage to keep the radio 
powered i see it burning out the poe circuit.

  hes fighting me on putting the cambium PSU at the midspan point and using 
his own POE to power the extender.

  Ive been overruled about telling the customer no, so its happening, but I 
want to make sure my math is correct
  using https://www.rapidtables.com/calc/wire/voltage-drop-calculator.html
  24guage, 30v, .5 amp, 400 feet shows 10v drop. but im not sure about the 
resistivity field

  this is a guy who runs constant latency monitoring and initiates tickets 
on every blip, so i see this radio move just becoming a nightmare with this 
midspan extender in play

   
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


--
  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


   



-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] resistivity of cat5

[Robert Andrews]

the WISPA offender registry...

On 9/1/21 11:53 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Might get me on some kind of offender registry.
*From:* Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Wednesday, September 1, 2021 12:19 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] resistivity of cat5

+1
Use SS or blow ports up during thunderstorms.  Those are the only two 
options.


Chuck should open a trenchcoat to reveal an assortment of surge 
protectors inside.


On 9/1/2021 2:15 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
When he does this, just for shits connect the PSU at the beginning and 
bridge all the middle stuff and just see if it works.  I will be it 
will be just fine.
However I am certain he needs a ton of surge protectors at each end of 
all ethernet runs just sayin’

*From:* Steve Jones
*Sent:* Wednesday, September 1, 2021 11:26 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] resistivity of cat5
thats what i suggested trying first, customer wanted the extender, 
irritating
he finally has caved now and will be putting a network rack in the 
midpoint and is going to place a managed switch there instead of all 
this other unsupportable cobbling. Sometimes we get a win.

On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 11:55 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

Maybe a dumb question, but has it already been tried without the
extender?

400ft is beyond 100m, but not by all that much.  It might just
work without any faffing around.

On 9/1/2021 11:16 AM, Steve Jones wrote:

I have a customer fixed on using
https://i.mt.lv/cdn/product_files/GPeRqg_190928.pdf to extend his
epmp f300 radio run to 400+ feet.
if im calculating this right there will be about a 10v drop on
the 24guage cat5, taking the 30v down to 20. If it does manage to
keep the radio powered i see it burning out the poe circuit.
hes fighting me on putting the cambium PSU at the midspan point
and using his own POE to power the extender.
Ive been overruled about telling the customer no, so its
happening, but I want to make sure my math is correct
using
https://www.rapidtables.com/calc/wire/voltage-drop-calculator.html
24guage, 30v, .5 amp, 400 feet shows 10v drop. but im not sure
about the resistivity field
this is a guy who runs constant latency monitoring and initiates
tickets on every blip, so i see this radio move just becoming a
nightmare with this midspan extender in play

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] resistivity of cat5

[James Howard]

Just out of curiosity, if he can put a network rack at the midpoint, how much 
of this is inside buildings?

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Wednesday, September 1, 2021 12:26 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] resistivity of cat5

thats what i suggested trying first, customer wanted the extender, irritating

he finally has caved now and will be putting a network rack in the midpoint and 
is going to place a managed switch there instead of all this other 
unsupportable cobbling. Sometimes we get a win.

On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 11:55 AM Adam Moffett 
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Maybe a dumb question, but has it already been tried without the extender?

400ft is beyond 100m, but not by all that much.  It might just work without any 
faffing around.


On 9/1/2021 11:16 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
I have a customer fixed on using 
https://i.mt.lv/cdn/product_files/GPeRqg_190928.pdf to extend his epmp f300 
radio run to 400+ feet.
if im calculating this right there will be about a 10v drop on the 24guage 
cat5, taking the 30v down to 20. If it does manage to keep the radio powered i 
see it burning out the poe circuit.

hes fighting me on putting the cambium PSU at the midspan point and using his 
own POE to power the extender.

Ive been overruled about telling the customer no, so its happening, but I want 
to make sure my math is correct
using https://www.rapidtables.com/calc/wire/voltage-drop-calculator.html
24guage, 30v, .5 amp, 400 feet shows 10v drop. but im not sure about the 
resistivity field

this is a guy who runs constant latency monitoring and initiates tickets on 
every blip, so i see this radio move just becoming a nightmare with this 
midspan extender in play


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Total Control Panel

Login


To: 
ja...@litewire.net

From: af-boun...@af.afmug.com





You received this message because the domain afmug.com is on your allow list.



-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] resistivity of cat5

[Steve Jones]

all but the exterior cable run of maybe 12 feet. theyre extending their
building out and putting up another building in the current LOS

On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 3:43 PM James Howard  wrote:

> Just out of curiosity, if he can put a network rack at the midpoint, how
> much of this is inside buildings?
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 1, 2021 12:26 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] resistivity of cat5
>
>
>
> thats what i suggested trying first, customer wanted the extender,
> irritating
>
>
>
> he finally has caved now and will be putting a network rack in the
> midpoint and is going to place a managed switch there instead of all this
> other unsupportable cobbling. Sometimes we get a win.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 11:55 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
> Maybe a dumb question, but has it already been tried without the
> extender?
>
> 400ft is beyond 100m, but not by all that much.  It might just work
> without any faffing around.
>
>
>
> On 9/1/2021 11:16 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> I have a customer fixed on using
> https://i.mt.lv/cdn/product_files/GPeRqg_190928.pdf to extend his epmp
> f300 radio run to 400+ feet.
>
> if im calculating this right there will be about a 10v drop on the
> 24guage cat5, taking the 30v down to 20. If it does manage to keep the
> radio powered i see it burning out the poe circuit.
>
>
>
> hes fighting me on putting the cambium PSU at the midspan point and using
> his own POE to power the extender.
>
>
>
> Ive been overruled about telling the customer no, so its happening, but I
> want to make sure my math is correct
>
> using https://www.rapidtables.com/calc/wire/voltage-drop-calculator.html
>
> 24guage, 30v, .5 amp, 400 feet shows 10v drop. but im not sure about the
> resistivity field
>
>
>
> this is a guy who runs constant latency monitoring and initiates tickets
> on every blip, so i see this radio move just becoming a nightmare with this
> midspan extender in play
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
>
> *Total Control Panel*
>
> Login 
>
> To: ja...@litewire.net
> 
>
> From: af-boun...@af.afmug.com
>
> *You received this message because the domain afmug.com 
> is on your allow list.*
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] resistivity of cat5

[Adam Moffett]

OhI assumed you were going building to building.

On 9/1/2021 5:44 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
all but the exterior cable run of maybe 12 feet. theyre extending 
their building out and putting up another building in the current LOS


On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 3:43 PM James Howard > wrote:


Just out of curiosity, if he can put a network rack at the
midpoint, how much of this is inside buildings?

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of * Steve Jones
*Sent:* Wednesday, September 1, 2021 12:26 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] resistivity of cat5

thats what i suggested trying first, customer wanted the extender,
irritating

he finally has caved now and will be putting a network rack in the
midpoint and is going to place a managed switch there instead of
all this other unsupportable cobbling. Sometimes we get a win.

On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 11:55 AM Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Maybe a dumb question, but has it already been tried without
the extender?

400ft is beyond 100m, but not by all that much. It might just
work without any faffing around.

On 9/1/2021 11:16 AM, Steve Jones wrote:

I have a customer fixed on using
https://i.mt.lv/cdn/product_files/GPeRqg_190928.pdf
 to
extend his epmp f300 radio run to 400+ feet.

if im calculating this right there will be about a 10v
drop on the 24guage cat5, taking the 30v down to 20. If it
does manage to keep the radio powered i see it burning out
the poe circuit.

hes fighting me on putting the cambium PSU at the midspan
point and using his own POE to power the extender.

Ive been overruled about telling the customer no, so its
happening, but I want to make sure my math is correct

using
https://www.rapidtables.com/calc/wire/voltage-drop-calculator.html


24guage, 30v, .5 amp, 400 feet shows 10v drop. but im
not sure about the resistivity field

this is a guy who runs constant latency monitoring and
initiates tickets on every blip, so i see this radio move
just becoming a nightmare with this midspan extender in play



-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




*Total Control Panel*



Login 

To: ja...@litewire.net



From: af-boun...@af.afmug.com 



/You received this message because the domain afmug.com
 is on your allow list./

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] resistivity of cat5

[James Howard]

Is it a Wisconsin thing that you have a to have any wire that penetrates the 
building "envelope" grounded within 20 feet of penetration to meet code?   
Seems like if you have to ground it anyway within 20 feet of entry, put the POE 
there and then they can have their extender wherever they want along the rest 
of the run.

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Wednesday, September 1, 2021 4:45 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] resistivity of cat5

all but the exterior cable run of maybe 12 feet. theyre extending their 
building out and putting up another building in the current LOS

On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 3:43 PM James Howard 
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:
Just out of curiosity, if he can put a network rack at the midpoint, how much 
of this is inside buildings?

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Steve Jones
Sent: Wednesday, September 1, 2021 12:26 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] resistivity of cat5

thats what i suggested trying first, customer wanted the extender, irritating

he finally has caved now and will be putting a network rack in the midpoint and 
is going to place a managed switch there instead of all this other 
unsupportable cobbling. Sometimes we get a win.

On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 11:55 AM Adam Moffett 
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Maybe a dumb question, but has it already been tried without the extender?

400ft is beyond 100m, but not by all that much.  It might just work without any 
faffing around.


On 9/1/2021 11:16 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
I have a customer fixed on using 
https://i.mt.lv/cdn/product_files/GPeRqg_190928.pdf to extend his epmp f300 
radio run to 400+ feet.
if im calculating this right there will be about a 10v drop on the 24guage 
cat5, taking the 30v down to 20. If it does manage to keep the radio powered i 
see it burning out the poe circuit.

hes fighting me on putting the cambium PSU at the midspan point and using his 
own POE to power the extender.

Ive been overruled about telling the customer no, so its happening, but I want 
to make sure my math is correct
using https://www.rapidtables.com/calc/wire/voltage-drop-calculator.html
24guage, 30v, .5 amp, 400 feet shows 10v drop. but im not sure about the 
resistivity field

this is a guy who runs constant latency monitoring and initiates tickets on 
every blip, so i see this radio move just becoming a nightmare with this 
midspan extender in play

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Total Control Panel

Login


To: 
ja...@litewire.net

From: af-boun...@af.afmug.com





You received this message because the domain afmug.com is on 
your allow list.



--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Total Control Panel

Login


To: 
ja...@litewire.net

From: af-boun...@af.afmug.com





You received this message because the domain afmug.com is on your allow list.



-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Aviat WTM4200 Latency

[Jason McKemie]

I've checked the light levels, auto negotiation is off, and I've also
enabled flow control - all with no change in the behavior.

On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 2:32 PM TJ Trout  wrote:

> turn auto neg off, try flow control on and off. Check your light levels on
> all 4 sfp's and make sure they are within spec, if not clean the fibers or
> add an attenuator(s)
>
> On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 12:20 PM Josh Baird  wrote:
>
>> FWIW - we have a WTM4200 with a CCR2004 on one end and don't have that
>> issue.
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 3:13 PM Joe Novak  wrote:
>>
>>> Test with anything other than a CCR2004. I'd be willing to bet on it
>>> being the problem.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 2:05 PM Jason McKemie <
>>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>>>
 Are you familiar with the Aviat radios?  I cannot seem to find anywhere
 to set flow control on the ethernet interfaces.

 On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 1:25 PM Colin Stanners 
 wrote:

> Have you tried Flow Control off/on, on both devices, at one end's
> Ethernet link? What model of MT router?
>
> On Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 1:20 PM Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm having an issue where about 3-8% of packets going through a
>> WTM4200 link are seeing a 1-10ms spike in latency.  Aviat support is not
>> being particularly helpful, they just say they're seeing CRC errors at
>> one end and to replace the SFPs and cabling to see if that helps.  These
>> have a fiber connection and are powered through the DC port.  The radios 
>> /
>> SFPs / fiber at both ends are new.  I've already replaced the SFPs on the
>> attached Mikrotik routers with Aviat SFPs with no change in the issue.
>> Incidentally, I'm seeing the issue when I ping from the Mikrotik routers 
>> to
>> their respectively attached WTM - so the issue is both ends and not a
>> single one.  Has anyone seen anything like this?
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com