Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude

[Matt Hoppes]

I'm amazed how many folks I've seen over the years think running a WISP 
was so easy a caveman could do it and I had to sit them down and talk 
them out of it for their good and my good.


On 3/7/23 6:06 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Well everybuddy knows that  you can't compete with fiber, right?!

(this guy (the WISP) is a coder/IT guy that decided becoming a WISP is 
easy. Heavy advertising as FOTA.  I think he is learning that pesky RF 
stuff might indeed be important)


-Original Message----- From: Matt Hoppes
Sent: Tuesday, March 7, 2023 1:27 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Cc: Chuck McCown
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude

Why did they come back?  A properly running WISP should be as stable as
a fiber connection.

We rarely get service calls on wireless -- usually it's something
related to the customer's router or interference they have caused
that doesn't change with fiber.

On 3/6/23 3:55 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Had our first fiber customer disconnect to go to a new WISP in the area.
They said the new service was half the price of ours and they got a 
price lock for three years.
Yeah, OK, but we will have your service on standby any time you want 
to reactivate it.

The disconnect was Friday.  The reconnect was this morning...
I know that is not music to the ears of WISP only companies, but I 
gotta tell you, you never get service calls with fiber.

Best Regards,
Chuck McCown

McCown Technology Corporation
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503 Office
435-830-4306 Cell
www.mccowntech.com
www.microtrench.pro
www.terabitnetworks.com



--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude

[Matt Hoppes]

But... But... fiber is the future.

On 3/7/23 4:29 PM, Jan-GAMs wrote:
Our fiber competitor is using fiber to connect to a DSL connection.  
Those customers who left our wisp for them came back within a few days.


On 3/6/23 12:55, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Had our first fiber customer disconnect to go to a new WISP in the area.
They said the new service was half the price of ours and they got a 
price lock for three years.
Yeah, OK, but we will have your service on standby any time you want 
to reactivate it.

The disconnect was Friday.  The reconnect was this morning...
I know that is not music to the ears of WISP only companies, but I 
gotta tell you, you never get service calls with fiber.

Best Regards,
Chuck McCown

McCown Technology Corporation
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503 Office
435-830-4306 Cell
www.mccowntech.com
www.microtrench.pro
www.terabitnetworks.com





--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude

[Matt Hoppes]

I mean this is true... "new wisp" doesn't mean a quality new WISP.

On 3/7/23 4:06 PM, dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote:

Well he did say "new wisp"
Maybe they put a DD-WRT router in Tupperware on the roof with a Pringles can
yagi.
Or they think it's smart to run wifi with a WDS mesh.  Every customer is a
POP and grows my networkso easy!
Or they said "up to 200Mb" and actually delivered 5Mb
Or the whole thing runs on a cable modem in his mom's basement

or any number of other dumb ideas people thought were smart when they
too were a "new wisp".
I bet we can all think up a huge list of dumb things we've seen, heard, or
maybe done ourselves.




-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2023 3:27 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude

Why did they come back?  A properly running WISP should be as stable as a
fiber connection.

We rarely get service calls on wireless -- usually it's something related to
the customer's router or interference they have caused
that doesn't change with fiber.

On 3/6/23 3:55 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Had our first fiber customer disconnect to go to a new WISP in the area.
They said the new service was half the price of ours and they got a
price lock for three years.
Yeah, OK, but we will have your service on standby any time you want
to reactivate it.
The disconnect was Friday.  The reconnect was this morning...
I know that is not music to the ears of WISP only companies, but I
gotta tell you, you never get service calls with fiber.
Best Regards,
Chuck McCown

McCown Technology Corporation
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503 Office
435-830-4306 Cell
www.mccowntech.com
www.microtrench.pro
www.terabitnetworks.com



--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude

[Matt Hoppes]

Why did they come back?  A properly running WISP should be as stable as 
a fiber connection.


We rarely get service calls on wireless -- usually it's something 
related to the customer's router or interference they have caused 
that doesn't change with fiber.


On 3/6/23 3:55 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Had our first fiber customer disconnect to go to a new WISP in the area.
They said the new service was half the price of ours and they got a 
price lock for three years.
Yeah, OK, but we will have your service on standby any time you want to 
reactivate it.

The disconnect was Friday.  The reconnect was this morning...
I know that is not music to the ears of WISP only companies, but I gotta 
tell you, you never get service calls with fiber.

Best Regards,
Chuck McCown

McCown Technology Corporation
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503 Office
435-830-4306 Cell
www.mccowntech.com
www.microtrench.pro
www.terabitnetworks.com



--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] The weirdest coincidence

[Matt Hoppes]

This is why there needs to be segregation between APs and SMs in 
cnMaestro for permissions.


On 2/22/22 1:22 PM, dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote:

Nevermind.  Some noob was shutting off Aps trying to disable users.

*From:* dmmoff...@gmail.com 
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 22, 2022 1:07 PM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
*Subject:* The weirdest coincidence

I just had five different PMP450 AP’s go down at the same time at five 
different towers.  In all cases the switch reports link, but I get zero 
Rx traffic.  Power cycle doesn’t bring any of them back up.


WTF just happened?  Some kind of bug?




--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] What are you gents using?

[Matt Hoppes]

where is the interference coming from?

On 12/17/21 11:34 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
Several WISPs in area are getting hammered with 5GHz interference 
especially with DFS hits, the normal channels are overcrowded...
Ubiquiti and Cambium is mostly what they are usinga few Mimosa out 
there but I know one wisp who replaced all of his with Cambium and 60Ghz 
AirFiber..

Any ideas?



--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] IPv6 in home routers

[Matt Hoppes]

Let me try again...


IPv6 is suppose to give every device it's own public IP address.

End users have devices on their network that are just waiting to be 
compromised and most users are not smart enough nor do they care enough 
to play with the firewall.


Therefore, we block inbound traffic on the IPv6 firewall.

So what benefit does IPv6 have to the end user?

None... Zilch... Absolutely none.  If we block inbound traffic by 
default, it's no different (for the average home user) than just opening 
some ports on IPv4 in the NAT translation table.


On 12/15/21 11:20 AM, dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote:

I'm not sure what you're talking about tbh.
You can use SLACC or DHCP to get an IP address on the WAN side, but you must do 
prefix delegation to push IP's to the LAN side.  It's different, but it's not 
more difficult.

What I'm observing is routers that don't have IPv6 at all, or haven't bothered 
to do the prefix delegation.  That's not a flaw in the protocol, they just 
haven't implemented it.

  


-Original Message-
From: Matt Hoppes 
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2021 11:15 AM
To: Adam Moffett ; AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] IPv6 in home routers

Because it's not straight forward to deploy.

On 12/15/21 11:11 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:

I don't think we're talking about flaws in the protocol.  I think
we're talking about it being a secondary concern for manufacturers so
they're not putting enough attention into it.


On 12/15/2021 11:06 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

Correct. We still don't know how to properly hand out IPv6 to end
users, and routers have issues doing it.

The protocol stack is a flawed implementation.

On 12/13/21 4:51 PM, dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote:

I was doing some testing on our dual stack FTTX network.

I grabbed a CnPilot R201P off the shelf.  IPv6 was disabled by
default.  You had to enable it in 3 different places and even after
following the guides on Cambium’s site the prefix delegation seems
to not really work.

I grabbed an AirCube…..no IPv6 support at all.  It’s supported in
the underlying OS, but not in the GUI.  Ubiquiti support says it’s
coming, but they’ve been saying that for 2 years +.

I grabbed a Mikrotik…..works perfectly fine, but setup is beyond
what any consumer is going to do.  If I’m quibbling, it doesn’t
support stateful dhcp assignments from a delegated prefix. That’s
not too big of a deal.

Out of 3 routers I have close at hand, 1 is a faulty implementation,
1 is not implemented at all, and one is too hard for normal people.

So when people run out to the store and get a Netgear, Asus, or
whatever router off the shelf is it hit-or-miss with those too? I
guess I naively assumed that 25 years after IPv6 was created that
we’d have working implementations by now.






--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] IPv6 in home routers

[Matt Hoppes]

We can argue about that all day, but I would say it is when the average 
user doesn't have a clue what they are doing to secure their home network.


No need to give devices public IPs.  They phone out to cloud services 
and are connected.


On 12/15/21 11:15 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
Again we're talking about manufacturers not paying attention to it.  
It's pretty standard for a home router to have a default set of firewall 
rules /in addition/ to NAT.  The fact that they didn't bother to have a 
default set of IPv6 rules isn't a flaw in the protocol itself.


On 12/15/2021 11:09 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
Exactly why we NAT on IPv4 for all residential connections.  The end 
user is not capable of protecting their home network properly.  
Nothing gets in unless it's explicitly requested.


I know NAT is not a firewall in and of itself, but the simple process 
of using NAT at the end user CPE stops a ton of trouble from devices 
getting compromised.


If we were to implement IPv6 to the end users we would throw up a 
"block all inbound traffic", so what did we really accomplish? IPv6 is 
flawed in so many ways.


On 12/14/21 1:30 PM, dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote:
Yes the firewall thing is a /glaring/ hole especially since you’re 
giving out public IP space to everything.


I wonder how many internet enabled refrigerators and ovens have log4j 
libraries.


*From:*Jesse DuPont 
*Sent:* Tuesday, December 14, 2021 11:49 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; 
dmmoff...@gmail.com

*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] IPv6 in home routers

I have done (somewhat) comprehensive testing of consumer routers and 
IPv6. You're right, Cambium/ReadyNet's implementation is either not 
functional or buggy (like, sometimes fails to announce itself as a 
gateway to the LAN). Mikrotik is great, but does take a few steps. 
Calix's support for IPv6 is solid and reliable. Netgear and Asus also 
have good IPv6 support, but it must be enabled. If doing DHCP, just 
enabling it with Auto Config is sufficient most of the time. If 
PPPoE, need to specify it's PPPoE and then to use the same session as 
IPv4. Linksys also generally has working IPv6 support, although the 
older stuff (3+ years) is a little spotty.


When I say working IPv6 support, I mean that they request a prefix 
via DHCP-PD, install that prefix on the LAN side and start announcing 
it to the LAN for SLAAC addressing. Most of them except Mikrotik seem 
to also require a global address via SLAAC on their WAN ports. So in 
my implementation, I have a SLAAC prefix on the subscriber router 
network from my equipment, and DHCP-PD running and the routers assign 
themselves a global address from the SLAAC prefix on their WAN ports 
and the DHCP-PD prefix on their LAN side. I guess they use the WAN 
address for things like DNS queries (for themselves and when they're 
doing DNS proxy). Mikrotik will use any global address for things 
like DNS queries, even an address on it's LAN side.


I'll also say that seems the IPv6 firewall is not enabled on about 
half of what I tested. Maybe it's better now, but even Mikrotik today 
doesn't have a standard set of consumer-router IPv6 firewall rules, 
at least not in RouterOS v6 or earlier. Maybe they do in v7.




*Jesse DuPont*

Owner / Network Architect
email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net 
<mailto:jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net>

Celerity Networks LLC / Celerity Broadband LLC
Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc

Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband

On 12/13/21 2:51 PM, dmmoff...@gmail.com <mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> 
wrote:


    I was doing some testing on our dual stack FTTX network.

    I grabbed a CnPilot R201P off the shelf.  IPv6 was disabled by
    default.  You had to enable it in 3 different places and even after
    following the guides on Cambium’s site the prefix delegation seems
    to not really work.

    I grabbed an AirCube…..no IPv6 support at all.  It’s supported in
    the underlying OS, but not in the GUI.  Ubiquiti support says it’s
    coming, but they’ve been saying that for 2 years +.

    I grabbed a Mikrotik…..works perfectly fine, but setup is beyond
    what any consumer is going to do.  If I’m quibbling, it doesn’t
    support stateful dhcp assignments from a delegated prefix. That’s
    not too big of a deal.

    Out of 3 routers I have close at hand, 1 is a faulty implementation,
    1 is not implemented at all, and one is too hard for normal people.

    So when people run out to the store and get a Netgear, Asus, or
    whatever router off the shelf is it hit-or-miss with those too?  I
    guess I naively assumed that 25 years after IPv6 was created that
    we’d have working implementations by now.






--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] IPv6 in home routers

[Matt Hoppes]

Because it's not straight forward to deploy.

On 12/15/21 11:11 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
I don't think we're talking about flaws in the protocol.  I think we're 
talking about it being a secondary concern for manufacturers so they're 
not putting enough attention into it.



On 12/15/2021 11:06 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
Correct. We still don't know how to properly hand out IPv6 to end 
users, and routers have issues doing it.


The protocol stack is a flawed implementation.

On 12/13/21 4:51 PM, dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote:

I was doing some testing on our dual stack FTTX network.

I grabbed a CnPilot R201P off the shelf.  IPv6 was disabled by 
default.  You had to enable it in 3 different places and even after 
following the guides on Cambium’s site the prefix delegation seems to 
not really work.


I grabbed an AirCube…..no IPv6 support at all.  It’s supported in the 
underlying OS, but not in the GUI.  Ubiquiti support says it’s 
coming, but they’ve been saying that for 2 years +.


I grabbed a Mikrotik…..works perfectly fine, but setup is beyond what 
any consumer is going to do.  If I’m quibbling, it doesn’t support 
stateful dhcp assignments from a delegated prefix. That’s not too big 
of a deal.


Out of 3 routers I have close at hand, 1 is a faulty implementation, 
1 is not implemented at all, and one is too hard for normal people.


So when people run out to the store and get a Netgear, Asus, or 
whatever router off the shelf is it hit-or-miss with those too? I 
guess I naively assumed that 25 years after IPv6 was created that 
we’d have working implementations by now.





--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] IPv6 in home routers

[Matt Hoppes]

Exactly why we NAT on IPv4 for all residential connections.  The end 
user is not capable of protecting their home network properly.  Nothing 
gets in unless it's explicitly requested.


I know NAT is not a firewall in and of itself, but the simple process of 
using NAT at the end user CPE stops a ton of trouble from devices 
getting compromised.


If we were to implement IPv6 to the end users we would throw up a "block 
all inbound traffic", so what did we really accomplish?  IPv6 is flawed 
in so many ways.


On 12/14/21 1:30 PM, dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote:
Yes the firewall thing is a /glaring/ hole especially since you’re 
giving out public IP space to everything.


I wonder how many internet enabled refrigerators and ovens have log4j 
libraries.


*From:*Jesse DuPont 
*Sent:* Tuesday, December 14, 2021 11:49 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; 
dmmoff...@gmail.com

*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] IPv6 in home routers

I have done (somewhat) comprehensive testing of consumer routers and 
IPv6. You're right, Cambium/ReadyNet's implementation is either not 
functional or buggy (like, sometimes fails to announce itself as a 
gateway to the LAN). Mikrotik is great, but does take a few steps. 
Calix's support for IPv6 is solid and reliable. Netgear and Asus also 
have good IPv6 support, but it must be enabled. If doing DHCP, just 
enabling it with Auto Config is sufficient most of the time. If PPPoE, 
need to specify it's PPPoE and then to use the same session as IPv4. 
Linksys also generally has working IPv6 support, although the older 
stuff (3+ years) is a little spotty.


When I say working IPv6 support, I mean that they request a prefix via 
DHCP-PD, install that prefix on the LAN side and start announcing it to 
the LAN for SLAAC addressing. Most of them except Mikrotik seem to also 
require a global address via SLAAC on their WAN ports. So in my 
implementation, I have a SLAAC prefix on the subscriber router network 
from my equipment, and DHCP-PD running and the routers assign themselves 
a global address from the SLAAC prefix on their WAN ports and the 
DHCP-PD prefix on their LAN side. I guess they use the WAN address for 
things like DNS queries (for themselves and when they're doing DNS 
proxy). Mikrotik will use any global address for things like DNS 
queries, even an address on it's LAN side.


I'll also say that seems the IPv6 firewall is not enabled on about half 
of what I tested. Maybe it's better now, but even Mikrotik today doesn't 
have a standard set of consumer-router IPv6 firewall rules, at least not 
in RouterOS v6 or earlier. Maybe they do in v7.




*Jesse DuPont*

Owner / Network Architect
email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net 
Celerity Networks LLC / Celerity Broadband LLC
Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc

Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband

On 12/13/21 2:51 PM, dmmoff...@gmail.com  wrote:

I was doing some testing on our dual stack FTTX network.

I grabbed a CnPilot R201P off the shelf.  IPv6 was disabled by
default.  You had to enable it in 3 different places and even after
following the guides on Cambium’s site the prefix delegation seems
to not really work.

I grabbed an AirCube…..no IPv6 support at all.  It’s supported in
the underlying OS, but not in the GUI.  Ubiquiti support says it’s
coming, but they’ve been saying that for 2 years +.

I grabbed a Mikrotik…..works perfectly fine, but setup is beyond
what any consumer is going to do.  If I’m quibbling, it doesn’t
support stateful dhcp assignments from a delegated prefix.  That’s
not too big of a deal.

Out of 3 routers I have close at hand, 1 is a faulty implementation,
1 is not implemented at all, and one is too hard for normal people.

So when people run out to the store and get a Netgear, Asus, or
whatever router off the shelf is it hit-or-miss with those too?  I
guess I naively assumed that 25 years after IPv6 was created that
we’d have working implementations by now.






--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] IPv6 in home routers

[Matt Hoppes]

Correct.   We still don't know how to properly hand out IPv6 to end 
users, and routers have issues doing it.


The protocol stack is a flawed implementation.

On 12/13/21 4:51 PM, dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote:

I was doing some testing on our dual stack FTTX network.

I grabbed a CnPilot R201P off the shelf.  IPv6 was disabled by default.  
You had to enable it in 3 different places and even after following the 
guides on Cambium’s site the prefix delegation seems to not really work.


I grabbed an AirCube…..no IPv6 support at all.  It’s supported in the 
underlying OS, but not in the GUI.  Ubiquiti support says it’s coming, 
but they’ve been saying that for 2 years +.


I grabbed a Mikrotik…..works perfectly fine, but setup is beyond what 
any consumer is going to do.  If I’m quibbling, it doesn’t support 
stateful dhcp assignments from a delegated prefix.  That’s not too big 
of a deal.


Out of 3 routers I have close at hand, 1 is a faulty implementation, 1 
is not implemented at all, and one is too hard for normal people.


So when people run out to the store and get a Netgear, Asus, or whatever 
router off the shelf is it hit-or-miss with those too?  I guess I 
naively assumed that 25 years after IPv6 was created that we’d have 
working implementations by now.





--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Employee Handling - Did I handle this correctly?

[Matt Hoppes]

Awww... I feel loved, I think. lol.

This might come back to be "why is this guy making life so hard on himself".

But that's what I figured... worst case is I have a few more weeks of 
problems best case is she actually gets her life together and 
continues to be a valuable employee that helps the company continue in 
an upward trajectory.


It's not that she wasn't useful to the company, it's just that some of 
the ways things were done were not at all helpful or appreciated by others.


On 8/3/21 1:11 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

I think you did right.

Worst that can happen is she does some sabotage. But that applies to any 
person on disciplinary.


You're giving her the opportunity to rectify the situation, maybe she 
didnt know she was toxic.


If you end up having to cut her loose you dont have to question the 
call, you gave her the opportunity to make right.


It's not often I'll say I think matt Hoppes did the right thing, 
usuallynits "why is this guy making life so hard on himself"


Hopefully she takes a corrective course and integrates into the team, 
pride is a hard thing to swallow, so punching it down her throat for her 
maybe did good.



On Tue, Aug 3, 2021, 11:23 AM Matt Hoppes 
<mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote:


I am.

On 8/3/21 10:14 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
 > I have allowed fired people to come back a couple of times.  Did
not work out.  They have resentment that will not go away.  Be ready
to hit the eject button without hesitation.
 >
 > Sent from my iPhone
 >
 >> On Aug 3, 2021, at 7:44 AM, Matt Hoppes
mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote:
 >>
 >> So I ended up firing the employee at 9am Monday morning, which
led to a different direction than I thought it would.
 >>
 >> Essentially I thought there was going to be a screaming match
and accusations about how could I do this to them, etc, what have
they ever done wrong.
 >>
 >> Instead the employee broke down crying and started confiding in
me that their life sucks, they can't keep relationships, and they
don't know what to do and they need help.
 >>
 >> After about 30 minutes of talking I took compassion and offered
the job back with the following stipulations:
 >>
 >> * Bad behavior has to have punishment - 2 weeks unpaid leave of job
 >>
 >> * On return, we immediately sit down and re-work job position so
it's more of a work position vs a management position and have clear
expectations of what may and may not be done/said as well as what
behavior will not be tolerated.
 >>
 >> * There is a very short leash for the next few months during
which time we will be having weekly meetings to review behavior and
progress as well as if at any time I see behavior that is
inconsistent with what needs to happen we will immediately stop
whatever is going on and go talk about it.
 >>
 >> I still don't know if I made the proper decision.    I labored
over the firing all weekend making sure I was making the right
decision and not in haste, then made the decision Monday morning
that it was a 100% firing there would be no other outcome -- but it
seemed like there was genuine repentance and remorse and desire to
get their life fixed (vs just "crap I lost my job").
 >>
 >> As someone who's ultimate goal for any employee is that they
become a better person both at work and in their personal life, I
felt like I would be doing this person a disservice if I sent them
on their way and said "Go in peace, keep warm and well fed" but did
nothing for their physical needs.
 >>
 >>
 >> I figure time will quickly tell of the desire to change is
genuine or not, and as long as we have clear expectations and rules
laid out what harm can there be?   The employee did do good work
that I myself hated doing, their ability to interact with others was
just.. severely lacking.
 >>
 >> I think this may have been the "rock bottom" event some people
need in their life to smack them upside the face.
 >>
 >> Thoughts?
 >>
 >>
 >> --
 >> AF mailing list
 >> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
 >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Employee Handling - Did I handle this correctly?

[Matt Hoppes]

We are planning to start a monthly employee outing where we take a 
Friday afternoon or something and go do an activity (bowling, nice 
lunch/early dinner, mini golf, etc... )


On 8/3/21 2:42 PM, Jan-GAMs wrote:
I worked at this one place that used to have a feed on the last Friday 
of the month, till some drunk employee had a car-wreck.  So other 
employers in the area banned the booze.  Bringing the employees together 
for a free dinner develops a camaraderie and improves the cohesiveness.  
I remember one party where the company brought in ZZ top to celebrate 
the new ceo.  I'm just saying that a lot of people do better when they 
feel they work with family.


On 8/3/21 10:16 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
Changing the alignment of the stars would be my first thought.  That 
might do it...


Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Tue, Aug 3, 2021 at 1:12 PM Chuck McCown via AF <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> wrote:


I don't recall ever being able to pull off that transformation.

I took one of those skill path seminars 15-20 years ago.  Had to
do with
dealing with problem employees.  After 1.5 days of the seminar the
bottom
line was: learn to live with it or fire them.

-Original Message-----
    From: Matt Hoppes
Sent: Tuesday, August 3, 2021 10:20 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; James Howard
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Employee Handling - Did I handle this correctly?

I thought about this.  But then that's saying that people are just
what
they are and can't change.

What does it take for someone to change out of a bad cookie into a
good
cookie?

On 8/3/21 10:54 AM, James Howard wrote:
> Whether the employee was sincere or was manipulating, the
behavior will
> definitely return unless you micromanage them the rest of their
> employment.  Unless you love micro managing people that gets
really old in
> a hurry and then they just return to their “default” behavior. 
As Chuck

> said there will likely be resentment for the firing as well as
resentment
> for the micro management as long as they are there.
>
> *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of * Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 3, 2021 8:58 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Employee Handling - Did I handle this
correctly?
>
> You just got manipulated.
>
> Time will tell, but I wouldn't expect things to get better.
>
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
    > 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Tue, Aug 3, 2021 at 9:46 AM Matt Hoppes
> mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>
> <mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net
<mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>>> wrote:
>
>     So I ended up firing the employee at 9am Monday morning,
which led to
> a
>     different direction than I thought it would.
>
>     Essentially I thought there was going to be a screaming
match and
>     accusations about how could I do this to them, etc, what
have they
> ever
>     done wrong.
>
>     Instead the employee broke down crying and started confiding
in me
> that
>     their life sucks, they can't keep relationships, and they
don't know
>     what to do and they need help.
>
>     After about 30 minutes of talking I took compassion and
offered the
> job
>     back with the following stipulations:
>
>     * Bad behavior has to have punishment - 2 weeks unpaid leave
of job
>
>     * On return, we immediately sit down and re-work job
position so it's
>     more of a work position vs a management position and have clear
>     expectations of what may and may not be done/said as well as
what
>     behavior will not be tolerated.
>
>     * There is a very short leash for the next few months during
which
> time
>     we will be having weekly meetings to review behavior and
progress as
>     well as if at any time I see behavior that is inconsistent
with what
>     needs to happen we will immediately stop whatever is going
on and go
>     talk about it.
>
>     I still don't know if I made the proper decision. I labored
over
> the
>     firing all weekend making sure I was making the right
decision and not
>     in haste, then made the decision Monday morning that it was
a 100%
>     firing the

Re: [AFMUG] Employee Handling - Did I handle this correctly?

[Matt Hoppes]

I am.

On 8/3/21 10:14 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

I have allowed fired people to come back a couple of times.  Did not work out.  
They have resentment that will not go away.  Be ready to hit the eject button 
without hesitation.

Sent from my iPhone


On Aug 3, 2021, at 7:44 AM, Matt Hoppes  
wrote:

So I ended up firing the employee at 9am Monday morning, which led to a 
different direction than I thought it would.

Essentially I thought there was going to be a screaming match and accusations 
about how could I do this to them, etc, what have they ever done wrong.

Instead the employee broke down crying and started confiding in me that their 
life sucks, they can't keep relationships, and they don't know what to do and 
they need help.

After about 30 minutes of talking I took compassion and offered the job back 
with the following stipulations:

* Bad behavior has to have punishment - 2 weeks unpaid leave of job

* On return, we immediately sit down and re-work job position so it's more of a 
work position vs a management position and have clear expectations of what may 
and may not be done/said as well as what behavior will not be tolerated.

* There is a very short leash for the next few months during which time we will 
be having weekly meetings to review behavior and progress as well as if at any 
time I see behavior that is inconsistent with what needs to happen we will 
immediately stop whatever is going on and go talk about it.

I still don't know if I made the proper decision.I labored over the firing all 
weekend making sure I was making the right decision and not in haste, then made the 
decision Monday morning that it was a 100% firing there would be no other outcome -- but 
it seemed like there was genuine repentance and remorse and desire to get their life 
fixed (vs just "crap I lost my job").

As someone who's ultimate goal for any employee is that they become a better person both 
at work and in their personal life, I felt like I would be doing this person a disservice 
if I sent them on their way and said "Go in peace, keep warm and well fed" but 
did nothing for their physical needs.


I figure time will quickly tell of the desire to change is genuine or not, and 
as long as we have clear expectations and rules laid out what harm can there 
be?   The employee did do good work that I myself hated doing, their ability to 
interact with others was just.. severely lacking.

I think this may have been the "rock bottom" event some people need in their 
life to smack them upside the face.

Thoughts?


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Employee Handling - Did I handle this correctly?

[Matt Hoppes]

Maybe.  I hope not.  I figure if I did the behavior will return and that 
will be the end of that.


On 8/3/21 9:57 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

You just got manipulated.

Time will tell, but I wouldn't expect things to get better.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Tue, Aug 3, 2021 at 9:46 AM Matt Hoppes 
<mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote:


So I ended up firing the employee at 9am Monday morning, which led to a
different direction than I thought it would.

Essentially I thought there was going to be a screaming match and
accusations about how could I do this to them, etc, what have they ever
done wrong.

Instead the employee broke down crying and started confiding in me that
their life sucks, they can't keep relationships, and they don't know
what to do and they need help.

After about 30 minutes of talking I took compassion and offered the job
back with the following stipulations:

* Bad behavior has to have punishment - 2 weeks unpaid leave of job

* On return, we immediately sit down and re-work job position so it's
more of a work position vs a management position and have clear
expectations of what may and may not be done/said as well as what
behavior will not be tolerated.

* There is a very short leash for the next few months during which time
we will be having weekly meetings to review behavior and progress as
well as if at any time I see behavior that is inconsistent with what
needs to happen we will immediately stop whatever is going on and go
talk about it.

I still don't know if I made the proper decision.    I labored over the
firing all weekend making sure I was making the right decision and not
in haste, then made the decision Monday morning that it was a 100%
firing there would be no other outcome -- but it seemed like there was
genuine repentance and remorse and desire to get their life fixed (vs
just "crap I lost my job").

As someone who's ultimate goal for any employee is that they become a
better person both at work and in their personal life, I felt like I
would be doing this person a disservice if I sent them on their way and
said "Go in peace, keep warm and well fed" but did nothing for their
physical needs.


I figure time will quickly tell of the desire to change is genuine or
not, and as long as we have clear expectations and rules laid out what
harm can there be?   The employee did do good work that I myself hated
doing, their ability to interact with others was just.. severely
lacking.

I think this may have been the "rock bottom" event some people need in
their life to smack them upside the face.

Thoughts?


-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Employee Handling - Did I handle this correctly?

[Matt Hoppes]

I thought about this.  But then that's saying that people are just what 
they are and can't change.


What does it take for someone to change out of a bad cookie into a good 
cookie?


On 8/3/21 10:54 AM, James Howard wrote:
Whether the employee was sincere or was manipulating, the behavior will 
definitely return unless you micromanage them the rest of their 
employment.  Unless you love micro managing people that gets really old 
in a hurry and then they just return to their “default” behavior.  As 
Chuck said there will likely be resentment for the firing as well as 
resentment for the micro management as long as they are there.


*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Josh Luthman
*Sent:* Tuesday, August 3, 2021 8:58 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Employee Handling - Did I handle this correctly?

You just got manipulated.

Time will tell, but I wouldn't expect things to get better.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Aug 3, 2021 at 9:46 AM Matt Hoppes 
<mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote:


So I ended up firing the employee at 9am Monday morning, which led to a
different direction than I thought it would.

Essentially I thought there was going to be a screaming match and
accusations about how could I do this to them, etc, what have they ever
done wrong.

Instead the employee broke down crying and started confiding in me that
their life sucks, they can't keep relationships, and they don't know
what to do and they need help.

After about 30 minutes of talking I took compassion and offered the job
back with the following stipulations:

* Bad behavior has to have punishment - 2 weeks unpaid leave of job

* On return, we immediately sit down and re-work job position so it's
more of a work position vs a management position and have clear
expectations of what may and may not be done/said as well as what
behavior will not be tolerated.

* There is a very short leash for the next few months during which time
we will be having weekly meetings to review behavior and progress as
well as if at any time I see behavior that is inconsistent with what
needs to happen we will immediately stop whatever is going on and go
talk about it.

I still don't know if I made the proper decision.    I labored over the
firing all weekend making sure I was making the right decision and not
in haste, then made the decision Monday morning that it was a 100%
firing there would be no other outcome -- but it seemed like there was
genuine repentance and remorse and desire to get their life fixed (vs
just "crap I lost my job").

As someone who's ultimate goal for any employee is that they become a
better person both at work and in their personal life, I felt like I
would be doing this person a disservice if I sent them on their way and
said "Go in peace, keep warm and well fed" but did nothing for their
physical needs.


I figure time will quickly tell of the desire to change is genuine or
not, and as long as we have clear expectations and rules laid out what
harm can there be?   The employee did do good work that I myself hated
doing, their ability to interact with others was just.. severely
lacking.

I think this may have been the "rock bottom" event some people need in
their life to smack them upside the face.

Thoughts?


-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



*Total Control Panel*



Login <https://portal.reflexion.net/login?domain=litewire.net>

To: ja...@litewire.net 
<https://portal.reflexion.net/address-properties?aID=242260993&domain=litewire.net>


From: af-boun...@af.afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>



/You received this message because the domain afmug.com is on your allow 
list./





--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Employee Handling - Did I handle this correctly?

[Matt Hoppes]

So I ended up firing the employee at 9am Monday morning, which led to a 
different direction than I thought it would.


Essentially I thought there was going to be a screaming match and 
accusations about how could I do this to them, etc, what have they ever 
done wrong.


Instead the employee broke down crying and started confiding in me that 
their life sucks, they can't keep relationships, and they don't know 
what to do and they need help.


After about 30 minutes of talking I took compassion and offered the job 
back with the following stipulations:


* Bad behavior has to have punishment - 2 weeks unpaid leave of job

* On return, we immediately sit down and re-work job position so it's 
more of a work position vs a management position and have clear 
expectations of what may and may not be done/said as well as what 
behavior will not be tolerated.


* There is a very short leash for the next few months during which time 
we will be having weekly meetings to review behavior and progress as 
well as if at any time I see behavior that is inconsistent with what 
needs to happen we will immediately stop whatever is going on and go 
talk about it.


I still don't know if I made the proper decision.I labored over the 
firing all weekend making sure I was making the right decision and not 
in haste, then made the decision Monday morning that it was a 100% 
firing there would be no other outcome -- but it seemed like there was 
genuine repentance and remorse and desire to get their life fixed (vs 
just "crap I lost my job").


As someone who's ultimate goal for any employee is that they become a 
better person both at work and in their personal life, I felt like I 
would be doing this person a disservice if I sent them on their way and 
said "Go in peace, keep warm and well fed" but did nothing for their 
physical needs.



I figure time will quickly tell of the desire to change is genuine or 
not, and as long as we have clear expectations and rules laid out what 
harm can there be?   The employee did do good work that I myself hated 
doing, their ability to interact with others was just.. severely 
lacking.


I think this may have been the "rock bottom" event some people need in 
their life to smack them upside the face.


Thoughts?


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Employee Handling

[Matt Hoppes]

Toxic employee of value. I like that lol.

On 7/30/21 1:27 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
Being a toxic employee of value, I can offer some insight here. Toxic 
employees corrupt every future employee who walks in the door. We can be 
likened to an abusive spouse. Our worth seems very high up front, but 
what is our cost in the long run? We may excel in our area of expertise, 
even to the point we seem irreplaceable. This broad is probably costing 
you more in other areas than you realize.
We dealt with a lady like this at one of our sites we rent. Our contract 
gives us 24x7 access. She refused to allow us on the property if there 
wasnt a staff member present. Our customers (including this landlord) 
didnt want outage during business hours. Yet they would have to pay 
overtime for a staff member to be present after hours. We dont pay 
enough in rent to cover this.
Luckily she ended up causing farmers to drop their grain contracts to go 
elsewhere (where they got paid less for their yield) solely because they 
got tired of dealing with her.
  Look to see what you're losing by keeping this "invaluable" employee. 
I'll bet you're losing more than you gain.


On Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 5:56 PM Mike Hammett <mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:


Have you watched The Accountant?  ;-)



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>

<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>

<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

*From: *"Bill Prince" mailto:part15...@gmail.com>>
*To: *af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
*Sent: *Thursday, July 29, 2021 5:22:57 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Employee Handling

When you have a conversation with her, does she struggle to look you in
the eye? Reason I ask is that she "might" be on the spectrum. Some of
the people on the spectrun can be amazingly detail oriented, and can
perform jobs that would bore a "normal" person out of their gourd. They
can be ideally suited to detail-oriented work, but they can also have
    limited social skills, and they can get really upset when presented
with
a change in plans.


bp


On 7/28/2021 10:32 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
 > I've got a situation and looking for advice on how to best handle it.
 >
 > I have an employee who is very detail oriented and does a great
job of
 > organizing things and keeping scheduling running smoothly for the
most
 > part.
 >
 > However, at times she has expressed that she feels overwhelmed if
 > there are too many leads coming in and trying to keep them
straight -
 > so as a result at times we have deployed slower than I would like.
 >
 > We really should hire an additional customer service person, but two
 > people we've had have left because of her attitude towards them (she
 > can be blunt, and at times has mood swings).
 >
 > She basically runs our billing and customer service departments, and
 > I've given her authority to do that, but when I make suggestions on
 > things we should or shouldn't be doing she gets very upset about it.
 >
 > Right now we're working on some expansion projects and she has
 > expressed various concerns/reasons we shouldn't do things that I
think
 > we should do.
 >
 > I hesitate to throw out the baby with the bath water, but the
behavior
 > needs to change and thus far I've been unsuccessful at changing this
 > behavior.
 >
 > I plan to have a frank conversation with her in the next few
days, but
 > I'm curious to hear thoughts from others on something like this. 
How

 > do I best allow autonomy of the department she's managing while also
 > keeping in mind I sign the paychecks.
 >

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Employee Handling

[Matt Hoppes]

tude at another 
place of

employment.

About the backup person or train your replacement, I would institute a
company policy that says at least one other person in every job needs a
second person who knows roughly how to do their duties. I would 
explain like
this, if a person cannot be sick for a day or two or take vacation, 
you have

failed as management by making one  irreplaceable and cause the company
major hardship if they are out for a few days. This also applies to
yourself. Everyone needs a break from time to time and that includes 
knowing

things will be ok if you take a few days off. You will kill yourself with
being worried or overworked in the long run without making that a 
policy and

actually sticking to it.



Thank you,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com


-Original Message-
From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown 
via AF

Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2021 1:43 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Cc: Chuck McCown
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Employee Handling

After visiting with her about the issues, I would ask her how she 
thinks you


should solve the problem.
She might surprise you.

You could have her find and hire someone to share the job duties. She 
might


be more considerate of a coworker if it was her that made the 
selection.  Or


she could turn into maniac micro manager too.

My experience is that a problem employee rarely changes the problem
behavior.  And when you finally get around letting them go, no matter how
painful, you wonder why you didn't do it years ago.

You could simply hire a person and have her "train her replacement". Like
she needs vacation time so someone needs to be backup.  She will get the
hint.  If she pitches a fit, wish her well in her future search for
happiness.  If she begrudgingly trains up the replacement, you have an
immediate plan B for the future.  I think I would do this in any case.


-Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2021 11:32 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: [AFMUG] Employee Handling

I've got a situation and looking for advice on how to best handle it.

I have an employee who is very detail oriented and does a great job of
organizing things and keeping scheduling running smoothly for the most 
part.


However, at times she has expressed that she feels overwhelmed if there
are too many leads coming in and trying to keep them straight - so as a
result at times we have deployed slower than I would like.

We really should hire an additional customer service person, but two
people we've had have left because of her attitude towards them (she can
be blunt, and at times has mood swings).

She basically runs our billing and customer service departments, and
I've given her authority to do that, but when I make suggestions on
things we should or shouldn't be doing she gets very upset about it.

Right now we're working on some expansion projects and she has expressed
various concerns/reasons we shouldn't do things that I think we should 
do.


I hesitate to throw out the baby with the bath water, but the behavior
needs to change and thus far I've been unsuccessful at changing this
behavior.

I plan to have a frank conversation with her in the next few days, but
I'm curious to hear thoughts from others on something like this. How do
I best allow autonomy of the department she's managing while also
keeping in mind I sign the paychecks.





--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Employee Handling

[Matt Hoppes]

I've tried to foster an environment where employees can feel empowered 
and be free to set their own schedules/make decisions/etc as long as the 
work is getting done and the company is advancing.In this case I may 
have let it go too long without correction.


On 7/28/21 1:42 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
After visiting with her about the issues, I would ask her how she thinks 
you should solve the problem.

She might surprise you.

You could have her find and hire someone to share the job duties.  She 
might be more considerate of a coworker if it was her that made the 
selection.  Or she could turn into maniac micro manager too.


My experience is that a problem employee rarely changes the problem 
behavior.  And when you finally get around letting them go, no matter 
how painful, you wonder why you didn't do it years ago.


You could simply hire a person and have her "train her replacement".  
Like she needs vacation time so someone needs to be backup.  She will 
get the hint.  If she pitches a fit, wish her well in her future search 
for happiness.  If she begrudgingly trains up the replacement, you have 
an immediate plan B for the future.  I think I would do this in any case.



-Original Message----- From: Matt Hoppes
Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2021 11:32 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: [AFMUG] Employee Handling

I've got a situation and looking for advice on how to best handle it.

I have an employee who is very detail oriented and does a great job of
organizing things and keeping scheduling running smoothly for the most 
part.


However, at times she has expressed that she feels overwhelmed if there
are too many leads coming in and trying to keep them straight - so as a
result at times we have deployed slower than I would like.

We really should hire an additional customer service person, but two
people we've had have left because of her attitude towards them (she can
be blunt, and at times has mood swings).

She basically runs our billing and customer service departments, and
I've given her authority to do that, but when I make suggestions on
things we should or shouldn't be doing she gets very upset about it.

Right now we're working on some expansion projects and she has expressed
various concerns/reasons we shouldn't do things that I think we should do.

I hesitate to throw out the baby with the bath water, but the behavior
needs to change and thus far I've been unsuccessful at changing this
behavior.

I plan to have a frank conversation with her in the next few days, but
I'm curious to hear thoughts from others on something like this.  How do
I best allow autonomy of the department she's managing while also
keeping in mind I sign the paychecks.



--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Employee Handling

[Matt Hoppes]

Right, so she's said she feels like she can never take a vacation 
because there is no one to do her work and when someone does it's not 
done right.


When we did have a CSR in place she micromanaged them until they left. 
Now, some of that was valid complaints (such as formatting of 
information in tickets/work orders) but some of it was petty (like the 
comma between a city and state being left out, etc).


I plan to have a conversation, voice my concerns and how I feel we are 
being held back as a company and then ask her to make a decision on how 
she would like to move forward and that I am taking more control of the 
company back (she is somewhat our operations manager now - inventory, 
etc and does that well).


My opinion, she can stay on as inventory/receiving/scheduling, but I 
will be taking back control of any other decisions related to the 
business.   However the cards fall on that they fall.


On 7/28/21 1:42 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
After visiting with her about the issues, I would ask her how she thinks 
you should solve the problem.

She might surprise you.

You could have her find and hire someone to share the job duties.  She 
might be more considerate of a coworker if it was her that made the 
selection.  Or she could turn into maniac micro manager too.


My experience is that a problem employee rarely changes the problem 
behavior.  And when you finally get around letting them go, no matter 
how painful, you wonder why you didn't do it years ago.


You could simply hire a person and have her "train her replacement".  
Like she needs vacation time so someone needs to be backup.  She will 
get the hint.  If she pitches a fit, wish her well in her future search 
for happiness.  If she begrudgingly trains up the replacement, you have 
an immediate plan B for the future.  I think I would do this in any case.



-Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2021 11:32 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: [AFMUG] Employee Handling

I've got a situation and looking for advice on how to best handle it.

I have an employee who is very detail oriented and does a great job of
organizing things and keeping scheduling running smoothly for the most 
part.


However, at times she has expressed that she feels overwhelmed if there
are too many leads coming in and trying to keep them straight - so as a
result at times we have deployed slower than I would like.

We really should hire an additional customer service person, but two
people we've had have left because of her attitude towards them (she can
be blunt, and at times has mood swings).

She basically runs our billing and customer service departments, and
I've given her authority to do that, but when I make suggestions on
things we should or shouldn't be doing she gets very upset about it.

Right now we're working on some expansion projects and she has expressed
various concerns/reasons we shouldn't do things that I think we should do.

I hesitate to throw out the baby with the bath water, but the behavior
needs to change and thus far I've been unsuccessful at changing this
behavior.

I plan to have a frank conversation with her in the next few days, but
I'm curious to hear thoughts from others on something like this.  How do
I best allow autonomy of the department she's managing while also
keeping in mind I sign the paychecks.



--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

[AFMUG] Employee Handling

[Matt Hoppes]

I've got a situation and looking for advice on how to best handle it.

I have an employee who is very detail oriented and does a great job of 
organizing things and keeping scheduling running smoothly for the most part.


However, at times she has expressed that she feels overwhelmed if there 
are too many leads coming in and trying to keep them straight - so as a 
result at times we have deployed slower than I would like.


We really should hire an additional customer service person, but two 
people we've had have left because of her attitude towards them (she can 
be blunt, and at times has mood swings).


She basically runs our billing and customer service departments, and 
I've given her authority to do that, but when I make suggestions on 
things we should or shouldn't be doing she gets very upset about it.


Right now we're working on some expansion projects and she has expressed 
various concerns/reasons we shouldn't do things that I think we should do.


I hesitate to throw out the baby with the bath water, but the behavior 
needs to change and thus far I've been unsuccessful at changing this 
behavior.


I plan to have a frank conversation with her in the next few days, but 
I'm curious to hear thoughts from others on something like this.  How do 
I best allow autonomy of the department she's managing while also 
keeping in mind I sign the paychecks.


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar V1 Issues

[Matt Hoppes]

Woah woah woah

lawsuit. killing?   what's going on here?

On 7/27/21 8:47 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
Sonar was a diamond, but it seems since the lawsuit it's become a turd, 
I hope it squares up. I like simon, he killed the other guy at powercode


On Mon, Jul 26, 2021, 11:03 AM Mike Hammett > wrote:


Ah, you likely have to be in the WISP Talk group to see it.

In short, someone with similar symptoms was complaining and lots of,
Sonar disappointment conversation.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"Nate Burke" mailto:n...@blastcomm.com>>
*To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Sent: *Monday, July 26, 2021 10:35:55 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Sonar V1 Issues

I can't see that link, but I'll take your word for it.

I wonder if they had some logging process runaway.

On 7/26/2021 10:24 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

https://m.facebook.com/groups/wisptalk/permalink/1645374449126897/

There is at least one other person with this issue right now.

I've heard of disk-space and other rudimentary sysadmin issues
hitting Sonar before.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"Nate Burke" 

*To: *"Animal Farm"  
*Sent: *Monday, July 26, 2021 10:18:07 AM
*Subject: *[AFMUG] Sonar V1 Issues

We're being told our Sonar Instance is 'out of disk space'  They
added
disk space to the instance this morning and it started running,
but it
looks like it's down again now.  Can't get to the login page, it
just
times out.    They said that a couple other instances might have
been
having the same problem.  Anyone else having Sonar V1 issues
this morning?

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com





-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] T-Mobile PALs and CBRS GAA

[Matt Hoppes]

I understand that... but the SASs have told me they will continue to 
divide the pie up.


On 7/26/21 12:10 PM, Brian Webster wrote:

This is based on conversations with Richard Barnhart who understand this
probably as good as anyone. He did help develop the standards and SAS
requirements.

Just saying that while it's possible for the SAS to do that now, if more
users show up than there are channels there is no first in protections. Make
your business plans accordingly.

Thank you,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com

-Original Message-
From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 11:18 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group; Tyson Burris
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] T-Mobile PALs and CBRS GAA

What equipment are you using?  If 450 make sure you use Frame Type 2 for
LTE Coexxistence.

Then contact your SAS who will promptly kick T-Mobile off of part of the
GAA and allow both of you to coexist nicely.

On 7/25/21 6:24 AM, Tyson Burris wrote:

Good morning AF Geeks-

Someone help me understand this better.  Several questions below.

We operate in six counties in Indiana.  Some rural some not so much.

In our main county (johnson) we are starting to get interference even
when we are connected to the SAS.

While we cannot prove anything yet, each tower we are seeing this on
recently had new T-Mobile equipment deployed.

I reached out to our attorney, Steve Coran, this week and asked him to
pulled the county PAL winners. Listed here:

PAL winners for Johnson County, IN:

XF Wireless Investment, LLC (Comcast) -- 20 MHz

Actel, LLC (CenturyLink) -- 20 MHz

Wetterhorn Wireless L.L.C. (DISH) – 30 MHz

-Century Link has zero cell services of any kind in our county and
currently not deploying in fixed wireless.

-Comcast floats off Verizon

-Dish also has zero cell services of any kind in our count

So what we ended up with is PAL winners who have nothing to offer
locally yet unless subleasing.

Questions are:

is T-Mobile subleasing PAL’s from any of these three?

Is T-Mobile illegally just rotating PAL’s anywhere they want in the
country instead of just local counties?

Anyway to clearly isolate the offending carrier sucking up so much
spectrum and causing all the interference?

Another member brought up T-Mobile as a possible offender.  Did any data
come from that?

What time of the day do the SAS databases sync with each other and does
this force other carriers to cut back on total GAA – share nicely?

Has anyone found the other SAS providers to be better then GOOGLE.
Starting to think their system is worthless or inaccurate.  Truth is I
think this whole concept of spectrum sharing is poorly handled and not
fully tested on 3g.

If a carrier is on the same tower, how will that affect sync?  I ask
because we found some very interesting work arounds and results with
upload when we started playing with sync settings…ie distance, frame,
channel.

If the customer SM is moved from one spot to another or from a roof to a
post how badly does this affect the calculations on the SAS side?

Things we have discovered:

   * Even when we find noise floors on spectrum analysis in a reasonable
 range and move to the cleaner channel on the SAS the interference
 still trashes the uplinks.
   * In some cases the SAS is blocking the cleanest of channels which
 could be PAL related.
   * In some cases customer SM’s going off other ‘unaffected’ sites
 nearby may get knocked offline by the new noise.
   * In some cases we have had to drop off the SAS and found switching to
 other regulatory has allowed us to switch to cleaner channels and
 stabilized subs.  (which is exactly what we shouldn’t be doing)
   * We have a ton of 450m units going on towers as both new and
 upgrades.  I am concerned that the more urban areas will struggle
 with capacity since we have to break this up across multiple sectors.

History and Equipment:

Again this seems very isolated to our more urban deployments which have
historically been awesome in the 50Mhz channels prior to CBRS turn ups.

Our more rural areas are not seeing this issue at all.

All three locations have very specific and brand new T-Mobile equipment
so this has been our assumption of the cause without such proof.

Equipment on these commercial towers has been no more then two 450i AP’s
with KP 120’ sectors (pending 450m upgrades).

*Tyson Burris, President**
**Internet Communications Inc.**
**739 Commerce Dr.**
**Franklin, IN 46131**
***
*Office #**317-738-0320 *
*Cell/Direct #**317-412-1540 *
*Online: **www.surfici.net*

ICI

*What can ICI do for you?*


*Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP
Cameras - Fiber - Towers - Infrastructure.*
**
*CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
*addressee shown. It contains information that is*
*confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
*dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
*unautho

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar V1 Issues

[Matt Hoppes]

Nope.. I run a locally hosted version of Powercode...

I know that doesn't help you, but as Alexa says "it's always raining in 
the cloud".


On 7/26/21 11:18 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
We're being told our Sonar Instance is 'out of disk space'  They added 
disk space to the instance this morning and it started running, but it 
looks like it's down again now.  Can't get to the login page, it just 
times out.    They said that a couple other instances might have been 
having the same problem.  Anyone else having Sonar V1 issues this morning?




--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] T-Mobile PALs and CBRS GAA

[Matt Hoppes]

This is not accurate.  Contact your SAS and they will absolutely cut the 
pie up to avoid interference... that is their job and then will do it.


We just moved Verizon around in our area so we could both exist.

On 7/26/21 10:11 AM, Brian Webster wrote:
Remember that as a GAA user just because you are in the SAS you do not 
have first in rights. The SAS only protects the licensed PAL holders. 
Anyone who shows up to play in the GAA channels has to fight among 
themselves the same as you do on any unlicensed channels.


I repeat, the first users on a GAA channel in the SAS have ZERO 
protections from other GAA users, even if they were already shown in the 
SAS as active registered users. The SAS will not protect you from 
someone else turning up equipment on the same GAA channel.


Thank you,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Craig House
*Sent:* Sunday, July 25, 2021 11:17 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] T-Mobile PALs and CBRS GAA

I’ve been seeing this thread on the list for a while but hadn’t really 
read it. Probably worth keeping in mind when we do turn our stuff on to 
see how much interference there might be


Sent from my iPhone



On Jul 25, 2021, at 10:09, Jaime Solorza  wrote:



T-Mobile took over lots of 2 and 3Ghz stuff from Sprint...maybe
could be related to that..

On Sun, Jul 25, 2021, 7:45 AM Tyson Burris mailto:t...@franklinisp.net>> wrote:

LOL, Mike you got to get in the game bro.

I typed that up half asleep as well.

It’s not always that easy, but yes we have done all that.

You really think Crown, SBA, American care?

Crowns answer:  3ghz isn’t licensed anyone can use it plus you
would need to contact the interfering party directly

Well they are partially right.

*Tyson Burris, President**
**Internet Communications Inc.**
**739 Commerce Dr.**
**Franklin, IN 46131**
***
*Office #**317-738-0320 *
*Cell/Direct #**317-412-1540 *
*Online: **www.surfici.net* 

ICI

*What can ICI do for you?*


*Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones -
IP Cameras - Fiber - Towers - Infrastructure.*
**
*CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
*addressee shown. It contains information that is*
*confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
*dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
*unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
*prohibited.*

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
*Sent:* Sunday, July 25, 2021 8:59 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] T-Mobile PALs and CBRS GAA

I just woke up, so maybe my reading comprehension isn't the best
yet.

Can't you use a spectrum analyzer to track down the sources of
the interference and then work with the tower owner on who it is
that's on that tower and contact information?



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 







*From: *"Tyson Burris" mailto:t...@franklinisp.net>>
*To: *af@af.afmug.com 
*Sent: *Sunday, July 25, 2021 5:24:25 AM
*Subject: *[AFMUG] T-Mobile PALs and CBRS GAA

Good morning AF Geeks-

Someone help me understand this better.  Several questions below.

We operate in six counties in Indiana.  Some rural some not so much.

In our main county (johnson) we are starting to get interference
even when we are connected to the SAS.

While we cannot prove anything yet, each tower we are seeing
this on recently had new T-Mobile equipment deployed.

I reached out to our attorney, Steve Coran, this week and asked
him to pulled the county PAL winners. Listed here:

PAL winners for Johnson County, IN:

XF Wireless Investment, LLC (Comcast) -- 20 MHz

Actel, LLC (CenturyLink) -- 20 MHz

Wetterhorn Wireless L.L.C. (DISH) – 30 MH

Re: [AFMUG] T-Mobile PALs and CBRS GAA

[Matt Hoppes]

What equipment are you using?  If 450 make sure you use Frame Type 2 for 
LTE Coexxistence.


Then contact your SAS who will promptly kick T-Mobile off of part of the 
GAA and allow both of you to coexist nicely.


On 7/25/21 6:24 AM, Tyson Burris wrote:

Good morning AF Geeks-

Someone help me understand this better.  Several questions below.

We operate in six counties in Indiana.  Some rural some not so much.

In our main county (johnson) we are starting to get interference even 
when we are connected to the SAS.


While we cannot prove anything yet, each tower we are seeing this on 
recently had new T-Mobile equipment deployed.


I reached out to our attorney, Steve Coran, this week and asked him to 
pulled the county PAL winners. Listed here:


PAL winners for Johnson County, IN:

XF Wireless Investment, LLC (Comcast) -- 20 MHz

Actel, LLC (CenturyLink) -- 20 MHz

Wetterhorn Wireless L.L.C. (DISH) – 30 MHz

-Century Link has zero cell services of any kind in our county and 
currently not deploying in fixed wireless.


-Comcast floats off Verizon

-Dish also has zero cell services of any kind in our count

So what we ended up with is PAL winners who have nothing to offer 
locally yet unless subleasing.


Questions are:

is T-Mobile subleasing PAL’s from any of these three?

Is T-Mobile illegally just rotating PAL’s anywhere they want in the 
country instead of just local counties?


Anyway to clearly isolate the offending carrier sucking up so much 
spectrum and causing all the interference?


Another member brought up T-Mobile as a possible offender.  Did any data 
come from that?


What time of the day do the SAS databases sync with each other and does 
this force other carriers to cut back on total GAA – share nicely?


Has anyone found the other SAS providers to be better then GOOGLE.  
Starting to think their system is worthless or inaccurate.  Truth is I 
think this whole concept of spectrum sharing is poorly handled and not 
fully tested on 3g.


If a carrier is on the same tower, how will that affect sync?  I ask 
because we found some very interesting work arounds and results with 
upload when we started playing with sync settings…ie distance, frame, 
channel.


If the customer SM is moved from one spot to another or from a roof to a 
post how badly does this affect the calculations on the SAS side?


Things we have discovered:

  * Even when we find noise floors on spectrum analysis in a reasonable
range and move to the cleaner channel on the SAS the interference
still trashes the uplinks.
  * In some cases the SAS is blocking the cleanest of channels which
could be PAL related.
  * In some cases customer SM’s going off other ‘unaffected’ sites
nearby may get knocked offline by the new noise.
  * In some cases we have had to drop off the SAS and found switching to
other regulatory has allowed us to switch to cleaner channels and
stabilized subs.  (which is exactly what we shouldn’t be doing)
  * We have a ton of 450m units going on towers as both new and
upgrades.  I am concerned that the more urban areas will struggle
with capacity since we have to break this up across multiple sectors.

History and Equipment:

Again this seems very isolated to our more urban deployments which have 
historically been awesome in the 50Mhz channels prior to CBRS turn ups.


Our more rural areas are not seeing this issue at all.

All three locations have very specific and brand new T-Mobile equipment 
so this has been our assumption of the cause without such proof.


Equipment on these commercial towers has been no more then two 450i AP’s 
with KP 120’ sectors (pending 450m upgrades).


*Tyson Burris, President**
**Internet Communications Inc.**
**739 Commerce Dr.**
**Franklin, IN 46131**
***
*Office #**317-738-0320 *
*Cell/Direct #**317-412-1540 *
*Online: **www.surfici.net*

ICI

*What can ICI do for you?*


*Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP 
Cameras - Fiber - Towers - Infrastructure.*

**
*CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
*addressee shown. It contains information that is*
*confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
*dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
*unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
*prohibited.*




--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar v2

[Matt Hoppes]

Interesting with Powercode we have never been forced to switch to 
anything... even so much as being allowed to stay on Version 9 for YEARS 
after it was officially dead.  They even supported it and went way out 
of their way to do so.


Another reason I'm not a proponent of "billing in the cloud".

On 6/28/21 10:39 AM, bearma...@fourway.net wrote:

Hey Mike,

Absolutely do not switch to Sonar v2 until they force you to. It has a lot
of issues still and is a product that is in my opinion in a beta state
still.

It does not have complete parity with v1.

Ryan Houin
Operations Manager
Fourway.net

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2021 10:14 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] Sonar v2

Are any of you Sonar v2 users actually satisfied with the platform? It's
looking like they are going to strong-arm me into migrating to v2 and
*every* *single* person I know on v2 is dissatisfied with it.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] WISPAMERICA COVID

[Matt Hoppes]

That's great no offense taken.

In hindsight I wish we were there. but hindsight is always 20/20.

Looking forward to Vegas in the fall.

I truly did not think the show would go well, which is why I stayed 
home.   But in a "science experiment" type of way, I'm very glad it did 
go well especially knowing what all goes on at these shows and seeings 
the number of non-masked folks.


In a weird kind of way it reduces my anxiety a bit.

On 5/7/21 11:19 PM, Daniel White wrote:
Matt I know I've pushed back some on your posts about this... but that 
one wasn't directed at you and was unfair of me to say.  Please accept 
my apology because it clearly sounded like it was directed at you.  Some 
were extremely passionate about this show not going well which still 
upsets me.  Some WISPs make it very clear they want WISPA to fail... and 
it just boggles my mind.


In some ways we may have been lucky... I know of one individual that 
tested positive the day before flying out and got really sick.   
Thankfully he didn't come or it could have been worse.  The vaccine is 
not a silver bullet but clearly it helped.  The Gaylord and WISPA staff 
did a great job making sure things like hand sanitizer were easy to find.


I'm really excited about October.

photograph  
Daniel White
Co-Founder
phone: +1 (702) 470-2770
direct:+1 (702) 470-2766


Matt Hoppes <mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>
May 7, 2021 at 13:47
Naw... not disappointment.   If really we only ended up with one (and 
presumably thereby association a few) COVID patients from a show of 
this size that is good.


Not at all what I expected... but good.


Daniel White <mailto:dwh...@atheral.com>
May 7, 2021 at 13:45
I only had a alcoholic drink on Monday night and feel exhausted... but 
that might just be from trying to catch up from the show.


Also almost everyone that I spoke to that brought it up did say they 
were vaccinated.  I guess some will have to be disapointed it wasn't a 
super spreader event... well except for jokes about the tornado.


Josh Luthman <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
May 6, 2021 at 13:03
Clearly only 99% effective.  Or the one guy didn't drink.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373




Harold Bledsoe <mailto:hrbled...@outlook.com>
May 6, 2021 at 12:15

It’s well-known that lots of alcohol prevents covid…

*From: *AF  on behalf of Caleb Knauer 


*Date: *Thursday, May 6, 2021 at 6:36 AM
*To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] WISPAMERICA COVID

No 'rona, but every morning I did wake up with a bad case of "I'm
getting too old for this".  Luckily only temporary symptoms.

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 4:11 PM Matt Hoppes
 wrote:
>
> I'm just curious more than anything... did any of you that went to
> WISPAMERICA catch COVID?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> 
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faf.afmug.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Faf_af.afmug.com&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cebb6d116cc784de38e1308d91083331f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637558977944697093%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=RDEkRbXFgF%2FiK59nrMcdkHtyFaSDiDrm5GbgXYZnZHQ%3D&reserved=0


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faf.afmug.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Faf_af.afmug.com&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cebb6d116cc784de38e1308d91083331f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637558977944697093%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=RDEkRbXFgF%2FiK59nrMcdkHtyFaSDiDrm5GbgXYZnZHQ%3D&reserved=0



Caleb Knauer <mailto:cknauer.li...@gmail.com>
May 6, 2021 at 05:35
No 'rona, but every morning I did wake up with a bad case of "I'm
getting too old for this". Luckily only temporary symptoms.

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 4:11 PM Matt Hoppes





--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] WISPAMERICA COVID

[Matt Hoppes]

Naw... not disappointment.   If really we only ended up with one (and 
presumably thereby association a few) COVID patients from a show of this 
size that is good.


Not at all what I expected... but good.

On 5/7/21 3:45 PM, Daniel White wrote:
I only had a alcoholic drink on Monday night and feel exhausted... but 
that might just be from trying to catch up from the show.


Also almost everyone that I spoke to that brought it up did say they 
were vaccinated.  I guess some will have to be disapointed it wasn't a 
super spreader event... well except for jokes about the tornado.


photograph  
Daniel White
Co-Founder
phone: +1 (702) 470-2770
direct:+1 (702) 470-2766


Josh Luthman <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
May 6, 2021 at 13:03
Clearly only 99% effective.  Or the one guy didn't drink.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373




Harold Bledsoe <mailto:hrbled...@outlook.com>
May 6, 2021 at 12:15

It’s well-known that lots of alcohol prevents covid…

*From: *AF  on behalf of Caleb Knauer 


*Date: *Thursday, May 6, 2021 at 6:36 AM
*To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] WISPAMERICA COVID

No 'rona, but every morning I did wake up with a bad case of "I'm
getting too old for this".  Luckily only temporary symptoms.

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 4:11 PM Matt Hoppes
 wrote:
>
> I'm just curious more than anything... did any of you that went to
> WISPAMERICA catch COVID?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> 
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faf.afmug.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Faf_af.afmug.com&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cebb6d116cc784de38e1308d91083331f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637558977944697093%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=RDEkRbXFgF%2FiK59nrMcdkHtyFaSDiDrm5GbgXYZnZHQ%3D&reserved=0


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faf.afmug.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Faf_af.afmug.com&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cebb6d116cc784de38e1308d91083331f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637558977944697093%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=RDEkRbXFgF%2FiK59nrMcdkHtyFaSDiDrm5GbgXYZnZHQ%3D&reserved=0



Caleb Knauer <mailto:cknauer.li...@gmail.com>
May 6, 2021 at 05:35
No 'rona, but every morning I did wake up with a bad case of "I'm
getting too old for this". Luckily only temporary symptoms.

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 4:11 PM Matt Hoppes

Matt Hoppes <mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>
May 5, 2021 at 14:10
I'm just curious more than anything... did any of you that went to 
WISPAMERICA catch COVID?







--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] WISPAMERICA COVID

[Matt Hoppes]

Right - and I know of at least one who was fully vaccinated that got COVID.

Vaccination does not make you immune.

On 5/5/21 4:20 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

The vast majority of those that I spoke with at the show were either partially 
or fully vaccinated.

Mark


On May 5, 2021, at 4:10 PM, Matt Hoppes  
wrote:

I'm just curious more than anything... did any of you that went to WISPAMERICA 
catch COVID?

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com





--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

[AFMUG] WISPAMERICA COVID

[Matt Hoppes]

I'm just curious more than anything... did any of you that went to 
WISPAMERICA catch COVID?


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Circuit IDs

[Matt Hoppes]

Residential customers do not get circuits... they get connections.

Commercial customers get circuits with IDs.

On 4/30/21 3:13 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

Doesn't really matter what type of customer it is.

-
Mike Hammett
[ http://www.ics-il.com/ | Intelligent Computing Solutions ]
[ https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL ] [ 
https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb ] [ 
https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions ] [ 
https://twitter.com/ICSIL ]
[ http://www.midwest-ix.com/ | Midwest Internet Exchange ]
[ https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix ] [ 
https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange ] [ 
https://twitter.com/mdwestix ]
[ http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/ | The Brothers WISP ]
[ https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp ] [ 
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg ]

- Original Message -
From: "Matt Hoppes" 
To: "af" , "Adam Moffett" 
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2021 10:31:52 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Circuit IDs

Are we talking circuits or residential customer accounts?

On 4/30/21 11:24 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:

That, plus I feel like if a new customer moves into the same house that
the circuit number should be the same.  Or would you go out and relabel
splices?  Or would you re-use the account number for the new customer?

I feel like an ideal world would have customers having one ID number and
the physical infrastructure would have another.  Then you'd hyphenate
them.  Something like [cust#]-[line#]-[fiber#]. Then it tells you where
it is and who it's for.



On 4/30/2021 11:04 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

What if one customer has more than one circuit?

-
Mike Hammett
[ http://www.ics-il.com/ | Intelligent Computing Solutions ]
[ https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL ] [
https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb ] [
https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions ] [
https://twitter.com/ICSIL ]
[ http://www.midwest-ix.com/ | Midwest Internet Exchange ]
[ https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix ] [
https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange ] [
https://twitter.com/mdwestix ]
[ http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/ | The Brothers WISP ]
[ https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp ] [
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg ]

- Original Message -
From: "Gino A. Villarini" 
To: "af" 
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2021 8:59:53 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Circuit IDs

Billing account #




Gino Villarini
Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
[ http://www.aeronetpr.com/ ] [
https://www.inc.com/profile/aeronet ] [
https://www.facebook.com/aeronetpr/ ] [
https://www.instagram.com/aeronetpr/?hl=en ] [
https://www.linkedin.com/company/aeronet-broadband-corp ] [
https://twitter.com/AeroNetPR?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
] [ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr2Q9WBrAYVm3Fn970Jd6VA ]
[ http://www.aeronetpr.com/ | www.aeronetpr.com ] | Metro Office Park
#18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968




From: AF  on behalf of Mike Hammett

Date: Friday, April 30, 2021 at 9:54 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] Circuit IDs


How are you generating circuit IDs for wired customers?




-
Mike Hammett
[ http://www.ics-il.com/ | Intelligent
   Computing Solutions ]
[ https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL ] [
https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb ] [
https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions ] [
https://twitter.com/ICSIL ]
[ http://www.midwest-ix.com/ | Midwest
   Internet Exchange ]
[ https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix ] [
https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange ] [
https://twitter.com/mdwestix ]
[ http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/ | The
   Brothers WISP ]
[ https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp ] [
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg |


   ]







--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Circuit IDs

[Matt Hoppes]

Are we talking circuits or residential customer accounts?

On 4/30/21 11:24 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
That, plus I feel like if a new customer moves into the same house that 
the circuit number should be the same.  Or would you go out and relabel 
splices?  Or would you re-use the account number for the new customer?


I feel like an ideal world would have customers having one ID number and 
the physical infrastructure would have another.  Then you'd hyphenate 
them.  Something like [cust#]-[line#]-[fiber#]. Then it tells you where 
it is and who it's for.




On 4/30/2021 11:04 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

What if one customer has more than one circuit?

-
Mike Hammett
[ http://www.ics-il.com/ | Intelligent Computing Solutions ]
[ https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL ] [ 
https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb ] [ 
https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions ] [ 
https://twitter.com/ICSIL ]

[ http://www.midwest-ix.com/ | Midwest Internet Exchange ]
[ https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix ] [ 
https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange ] [ 
https://twitter.com/mdwestix ]

[ http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/ | The Brothers WISP ]
[ https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp ] [ 
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg ]


- Original Message -
From: "Gino A. Villarini" 
To: "af" 
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2021 8:59:53 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Circuit IDs

Billing account #




Gino Villarini
Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
[ http://www.aeronetpr.com/ ] [ 
https://www.inc.com/profile/aeronet ] [ 
https://www.facebook.com/aeronetpr/ ] [ 
https://www.instagram.com/aeronetpr/?hl=en ] [ 
https://www.linkedin.com/company/aeronet-broadband-corp ] [ 
https://twitter.com/AeroNetPR?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor 
] [ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr2Q9WBrAYVm3Fn970Jd6VA ] 
[ http://www.aeronetpr.com/ | www.aeronetpr.com ] | Metro Office Park 
#18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968





From: AF  on behalf of Mike Hammett 


Date: Friday, April 30, 2021 at 9:54 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] Circuit IDs


How are you generating circuit IDs for wired customers?




-
Mike Hammett
[ http://www.ics-il.com/ | Intelligent
  Computing Solutions ]
[ https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL ] [ 
https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb ] [ 
https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions ] [ 
https://twitter.com/ICSIL ]

[ http://www.midwest-ix.com/ | Midwest
  Internet Exchange ]
[ https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix ] [ 
https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange ] [ 
https://twitter.com/mdwestix ]

[ http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/ | The
  Brothers WISP ]
[ https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp ] [ 
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg |



  ]





--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Circuit IDs

[Matt Hoppes]

Account Number each circuit has a geographical location.   Each 
location has an account number.  Account number goes with the circuit.


If more than one circuit at a single location, it still has a separate 
account.


On 4/30/21 9:53 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

How are you generating circuit IDs for wired customers?



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] 450M data path

[Matt Hoppes]

No.. fiber doesn't work unless you log in and tell it to.

On 4/22/21 3:47 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
And if you have both plugged into a switch, does recovery mode create a 
loop and blow up the whole site?  Just wondering.



On 4/22/2021 2:40 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
Hmm that I did not test.  That's kind of annoying they could do that 
in recovery mode but not production mode. May limit the pps/overall 
capacity if that were the case?


Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Thu, Apr 22, 2021 at 1:06 PM Nate Burke > wrote:


I was able to get to it over the fiber too on the bench.  It's
like they were bridged in recovery mode.

On 4/22/2021 11:55 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Yes if you put it in recovery mode it's only the cat5 cable
(default OOB config).

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Thu, Apr 22, 2021 at 12:37 PM Nate Burke mailto:n...@blastcomm.com>> wrote:

Ok, that makes me feel a little better

Recovery mode appears to be available on both the Fiber and
Cat5  From there you can enter 'default mode' which will set
the data path to the Cat5, and you can update and reboot from
there.

On 4/22/2021 11:18 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:


Is Cat5 the default setting?  So in recovery console mode
you'd have the Cat5 and you could get in on 169.254.1.1?


https://community.cambiumnetworks.com/t/how-to-enter-default-mode-or-recovery-console-for-450b-450i-and-450m-series-products/44936


On 4/22/2021 12:14 PM, Nate Burke wrote:

Not that I've found. It's a single drop down box to select
the data path, that's the only setting.  I set it for
Fiber, the Cat5 port still has a physical link, but passes
no traffic.

I unplugged the Fiber cable, plugged my laptop into the
cat5 and rebooted.  I got a handfull of pings through,
(maybe 5 or 6) during the bootup process, then it stopped
responding completely. I thought maybe if it had no Link
during a boot it would automatically switch to the
interface with an active link, but no.

On 4/22/2021 11:10 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:


I don't have a 450m

Can you have both ports on with different IP's?  Even if
they're not bridged at least a way to back door in through
the second port?

On 4/22/2021 12:07 PM, Nate Burke wrote:

Oh, that's bad.  A fully functional AP, hanging in the
air, that's completely unusable just because what
should/can be redundant, isn't, because of software.

On 4/22/2021 10:58 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

It sucks.  That's how it is.

If it's 5 GHz you can do it over RF.  If it's 3 GHz you
can't because it'll have to reach a SAS to transmit.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Thu, Apr 22, 2021 at 11:14 AM Nate Burke
mailto:n...@blastcomm.com>> wrote:

I'm getting ready to deploy my first set of 450M
radios, from my bench
testing, and reading through the manual, do you have
to Choose which
data path is active, Copper OR Fiber? And the only
way to switch it if
that path is down is to log into the Radio with an
SM connection over
the RF?  That can't be right can it?

The EPMP radios bridge the copper and Fiber inside
the radio so both are
active.  That doesn't seem to be the case with the
450M.  Does the 450M
only allow one data path, and if it breaks your SOL
unless you can gain
sudo-physical access to the AP?  I have be missing
where you set the
primary/secondary data path, but I haven't been able
to find it yet.

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

















-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com





-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com






--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Self Contained DSLAM?

[Matt Hoppes]

They won't work at 2,000feet.

On 4/20/21 5:01 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

https://fastsystems.net/

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Tue, Apr 20, 2021 at 4:56 PM Matt Hoppes 
<mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote:



I have a situation where I need to get internet over copper lines about
2,000feet.

What options exist?   I have several different buildings I need to get
to, all which come back to a central junction point with copper pairs.

Considering a DSLAM... but I don't need authentication.    Does anyone
make a PtP DSL type system, or a small headend I can put in a box on a
pole and connect to DSL modems all self contained?

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

[AFMUG] Self Contained DSLAM?

[Matt Hoppes]

I have a situation where I need to get internet over copper lines about 
2,000feet.


What options exist?   I have several different buildings I need to get 
to, all which come back to a central junction point with copper pairs.


Considering a DSLAM... but I don't need authentication.Does anyone 
make a PtP DSL type system, or a small headend I can put in a box on a 
pole and connect to DSL modems all self contained?


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Notifying customers

[Matt Hoppes]

Ditto

On 4/15/21 11:17 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

I've found it's easier to get up early than stay up late.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

*From: *"Steve Jones" 
*To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
*Sent: *Thursday, April 15, 2021 10:04:55 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Notifying customers

the overnight maintenance windows are starting to suck. I didnt know id 
get old this fast where staying up past 2 am sober means im asleep til 
at least 10 am. ive moved a lot of that to saturday mornings instead of 
overnight where feasible. We rarely send out a long term prior 
notification unless we will see an extended outage. Notifications 
trigger the "ever since X nothings worked" calls too, one of the 
downsides.  you check the graphs, theyve been down since a week before. 
then you troubleshoot and they have everything plugged in backwards, but 
of course they didnt mess with it, thats how our techs installed it.
the phone message weve changed for years, I like that because you get 
the caller ID log, but no direct interaction with the customer since 
most hang up once they hear the message. It gives you a targeted list of 
impacted accounts to verify.


love or hate facebook, it generates revenue. since we went live, 
probably 10 percent of new customers are generated from it. I 
dont understand people who hate something so much they wont take the 
money or garner higher customer satisfaction levels.




On Thu, Apr 15, 2021 at 9:52 AM Matt Hoppes 
<mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote:


Planned maintenance:

Commercial Dedicated - We send out a notice about 1 week ahead of time,
then at the start and completion of the event.

Residential - If it's going to be more than 5 minutes we post to
Facebook a day before and put a notice up on our phone system.   If
it's
going to be less than 5 minutes (e.g. rebooting an AP) we don't do
anything.

All of this work is scheduled in our 2-4am time window and we have a
fair amount of redundancy.  Unless what we are doing is affecting the
access equipment normally it doesn't take anything down.

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Notifying customers

[Matt Hoppes]

Planned maintenance:

Commercial Dedicated - We send out a notice about 1 week ahead of time, 
then at the start and completion of the event.


Residential - If it's going to be more than 5 minutes we post to 
Facebook a day before and put a notice up on our phone system.   If it's 
going to be less than 5 minutes (e.g. rebooting an AP) we don't do anything.


All of this work is scheduled in our 2-4am time window and we have a 
fair amount of redundancy.  Unless what we are doing is affecting the 
access equipment normally it doesn't take anything down.


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] CBRS PAL holders

[Matt Hoppes]

You can lookup who has a PAL here:

https://auctiondata.fcc.gov/public/projects/auction105/reports/results_by_license

Just not which frequency

On 4/13/21 9:04 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
Currently I've been able to find no detailed, interactive map. Somewhere 
between the 16th and the 20th they're supposed to be opening up the pal 
website to everyone to see what pal channels were assigned in each 
county. As with everything cbrs, I'm not holding my breath


On Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 6:52 AM Adam Moffett > wrote:


Where can I lookup who has a PAL in a certain area?


-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: penny stocks

[Matt Hoppes]

Don't do penny stocks swing / day trade the S&P 500 and DJIA.   They 
always go up.


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Who is going to WISPAMERICA?

[Matt Hoppes]

I agree the 2 and 3 mask clown show is just that.. a clown show.. I'm 
not sure why we are doing that.


On 4/6/21 10:29 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:
By all means take any precaution you wish.  People at risk should.  But 
don't impose your beliefs on others.  If you see a non mask wearer - 
stay away from them.  Go ahead and live your life in fear.  The way 
things are going right now, this will never end.   We tried your way, it 
didn't work, it didn't even make a dent on the numbers.  In fact it 
bought the virus time to mutate and make things worse.


First they said masks wouldn't work, you'd need a bare minimum of a N95 
so don't bother.  Then they said wear the mask,  now you need to wear 
3.   This is a clown show.  It is time to try a different way.   The 
quickest way to immunity and return to normal life.   If you do anything 
that prolongs that from happening you are clearly advocating for big 
pharma and the medical community to now be our new governing body.



*From: *"Steve Jones" 
*To: *"af" 
*Sent: *Tuesday, April 6, 2021 9:59:42 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Who is going to WISPAMERICA?

The best cheese is that that is handed down to you

On Tue, Apr 6, 2021, 7:53 AM Matt Hoppes 
<mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote:


And this is the issue I have with us humans... selfish.

It's a year... maybe a year and a half.

You're telling me you can't avoid going out to bars, out to eat, out in
large gatherings for a year and a half to help keep others from getting
infected?

I'd argue there is a lot of evidence that masks and lock downs have
helped -- how can you spread if you aren't out seeing people?

The issue comes because people say " yah... I'm at home don't cha
know" but they were out to dinner with a friend who was passing through
who they haven't seen in years and they went to church and sat next to
someone not in their immediate family.

Do masks work?

You tell me  I was talking 4  feet from my SIL who somehow got
COVID
and so far I have no symptoms.  This was 3 days before she shows
symptoms, so surely contagious by that point from what we know.

We were both wearing masks.

The cool thing about America is we can all do our own thing as long as
it doesn't harm others.

I'll wear a mask and stay away from large gatherings until I think the
numbers show it's safe to do otherwise -- and you can run gangbusters
into the contagion.   We're adults and can make decisions for
ourselves.
   Just don't come see me after you've done that, please.

On 4/6/21 8:31 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:
 > Take that percentage into consideration the amount of people who
 > actually get it that die or have some lingering issues.  Not to
mention
 > there is little to no evidence or statistics that the masks or the
 > lockdowns have prevented or even hindered the spread.   It
certainly has
 > eliminated the regular flu and all other similar ailments!
 >
 > This is a situation  I think that we'll need to rip the bandaid
off and
 > go on with our lives.  Those who are at high risk should take
 > precautions.  The quicker we develop this immunity as a human
race,  the
 > better off we are in the long run.
 >
 > People here and relatives I've talked to all across North America
are
 > all fed up and had enough of this nonsense.  It is only a matter
of time
 > before people stop abiding and it will take some serious orwellian
 > jackboots to get people to "conform".   The kool aid is running
out and
 > we'll start to see more and more states start going the way of Texas.
 >
 > Disclaimer:  It is a nasty and deadly cold and people should take
 > precautions to protect themselves.
 >
 >

 > *From: *"Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]" mailto:j...@brazoswifi.com>>
 > *To: *"af" mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>, "Josh
Luthman" mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>>
 > *Sent: *Monday, April 5, 2021 7:19:59 PM
 > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Who is going to WISPAMERICA?
 >
 > Dallas county (2.6 million people) has 300 cases a day (as of
April 4th).
 >
 > Quick math says that’s 0.01% of the population has covid.
 >
 > That's practically non-existent.
 >
 > Live life, or don't.  Just don't complain when other's live their
life.
 >
 > Jim Bouse
 > Owner - Brazos WiFi
 > 9

[AFMUG] What do you wish you knew about small business?

[Matt Hoppes]

I've been struck by several things:

1) How terrible a lot of small business development courses are
2) How many small business owners don't fully understand how to make the 
most of their business.


With that in mind:
https://www.facebook.com/everyoneplunges/posts/1397379503939932

Not specific to WISP (such as, I wish I knew how to climb towers better, 
I wish I knew how to align a radio better), but rather - business 
operations.  What are some "AHA!" moments you've had, or struggles you 
currently experience that you wish you could overcome?


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Who is going to WISPAMERICA?

[Matt Hoppes]

And this is the issue I have with us humans... selfish.

It's a year... maybe a year and a half.

You're telling me you can't avoid going out to bars, out to eat, out in 
large gatherings for a year and a half to help keep others from getting 
infected?


I'd argue there is a lot of evidence that masks and lock downs have 
helped -- how can you spread if you aren't out seeing people?


The issue comes because people say " yah... I'm at home don't cha 
know" but they were out to dinner with a friend who was passing through 
who they haven't seen in years and they went to church and sat next to 
someone not in their immediate family.


Do masks work?

You tell me  I was talking 4  feet from my SIL who somehow got COVID 
and so far I have no symptoms.  This was 3 days before she shows 
symptoms, so surely contagious by that point from what we know.


We were both wearing masks.

The cool thing about America is we can all do our own thing as long as 
it doesn't harm others.


I'll wear a mask and stay away from large gatherings until I think the 
numbers show it's safe to do otherwise -- and you can run gangbusters 
into the contagion.   We're adults and can make decisions for ourselves. 
 Just don't come see me after you've done that, please.


On 4/6/21 8:31 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:
Take that percentage into consideration the amount of people who 
actually get it that die or have some lingering issues.  Not to mention 
there is little to no evidence or statistics that the masks or the 
lockdowns have prevented or even hindered the spread.   It certainly has 
eliminated the regular flu and all other similar ailments!


This is a situation  I think that we'll need to rip the bandaid off and 
go on with our lives.  Those who are at high risk should take 
precautions.  The quicker we develop this immunity as a human race,  the 
better off we are in the long run.


People here and relatives I've talked to all across North America are 
all fed up and had enough of this nonsense.  It is only a matter of time 
before people stop abiding and it will take some serious orwellian 
jackboots to get people to "conform".   The kool aid is running out and 
we'll start to see more and more states start going the way of Texas.


Disclaimer:  It is a nasty and deadly cold and people should take 
precautions to protect themselves.



*From: *"Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]" 
*To: *"af" , "Josh Luthman" 
*Sent: *Monday, April 5, 2021 7:19:59 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Who is going to WISPAMERICA?

Dallas county (2.6 million people) has 300 cases a day (as of April 4th).

Quick math says that’s 0.01% of the population has covid.

That's practically non-existent.

Live life, or don't.  Just don't complain when other's live their life.

Jim Bouse
Owner - Brazos WiFi
979-985-5912
http://www.brazoswifi.com

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Monday, April 5, 2021 4:40 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Josh Luthman 


Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Who is going to WISPAMERICA?

Texas: I'd be going to Dallas.

Pennsylvania: I'm no where near Philly or Pittsburgh.

My County has about 34 new cases per day.

On 4/5/21 12:29 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
 > Even though Pennsylvania has THREE TIMES the cases?  Hmm sure seems
 > like you'd want to be in Texas with their lesser case count.
 >
 > Josh Luthman
 > 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
 > Direct: 937-552-2343
 > 1100 Wayne St
 > Suite 1337
 > Troy, OH 45373
 >
 >
 > On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 11:39 AM Matt Hoppes
 >  <mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote:
 >
 >     Same here
 >
 >     Texas clearly thinks this whole thing is a joke.
 >
 >     On 4/5/21 11:36 AM, Sam Lambie wrote:
 >      > I am not going to the show this year. Texas politics and lax
 >     attitude
 >      > towards a pandemic and other issues is a big concern.
 >      >
 >      > On Fri, Apr 2, 2021 at 8:19 AM Josh Luthman
 >     mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
 >      > <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
 >     <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>>> wrote:
 >      >
 >      >      >Is her daughter still involved with the organization?
 >      >
 >      >     Yes. https://www.wispa.org/wispa_staff.php
 >      >
 >      >     Josh Luthman
 >      >     24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
 >      >     Direct: 937-552-2343
 >      >     1100 Wayne St
 >      >     Suite 1337
 >      >     Troy, OH 45373
 >      >
 >      >
 >      >     On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 5:58 PM Chuck McCown via AF
 >     mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
 >      >  

Re: [AFMUG] Who is going to WISPAMERICA?

[Matt Hoppes]

Wow... PA is doing a horrible job... but that aside --

It's not the Texans that worry me.   It's that WISPAMERICA is a melting 
pot for folks from all over the country and the world.   You're 
literally bringing who knows what all together for a week of often close 
encounters.


On 4/6/21 4:41 AM, Jan-GAMs wrote:
The current population of Texas is 28.996 million, the current number of 
Texans fully vaccinated as of last Monday(apr5) is 4,561,336 and the as 
of last Monday 16,653,045 Texans have received 1 dose.  That appears to 
me to be immunity in action.


On 4/5/21 4:50 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
That is practically non-existent.. and is interesting.   Does that 
mean everyone there has already had it?


How can a county of 2.6 million have 300 cases a day but a county 
of 110,000 has 34-50 new cases a day?


On 4/5/21 7:19 PM, Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] wrote:
Dallas county (2.6 million people) has 300 cases a day (as of April 
4th).


Quick math says that’s 0.01% of the population has covid.

That's practically non-existent.

Live life, or don't.  Just don't complain when other's live their life.

Jim Bouse
Owner - Brazos WiFi
979-985-5912
http://www.brazoswifi.com

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Monday, April 5, 2021 4:40 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Josh Luthman 


Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Who is going to WISPAMERICA?

Texas: I'd be going to Dallas.

Pennsylvania: I'm no where near Philly or Pittsburgh.

My County has about 34 new cases per day.

On 4/5/21 12:29 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Even though Pennsylvania has THREE TIMES the cases?  Hmm sure seems
like you'd want to be in Texas with their lesser case count.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 11:39 AM Matt Hoppes
mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote:

 Same here

 Texas clearly thinks this whole thing is a joke.

 On 4/5/21 11:36 AM, Sam Lambie wrote:
  > I am not going to the show this year. Texas politics and lax
 attitude
  > towards a pandemic and other issues is a big concern.
  >
  > On Fri, Apr 2, 2021 at 8:19 AM Josh Luthman
 mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
  > <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
 <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>>> wrote:
  >
  >      >Is her daughter still involved with the organization?
  >
  >     Yes. https://www.wispa.org/wispa_staff.php
  >
  >     Josh Luthman
  >     24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
  >     Direct: 937-552-2343
  >     1100 Wayne St
  >     Suite 1337
  >     Troy, OH 45373
  >
  >
  >     On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 5:58 PM Chuck McCown via AF
 mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
  >     <mailto:af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>> wrote:
  >
  >         I keep refraining from making a joke at Trina’s 
expense.
  >         I always got along with her just fine.  I thought 
she was

 a hoot.
  >         But if I was to make a joke it might have gone 
something like
  >         this: No way Wispapalooza will be a success unless 
they have
  >         some broad walking the floor with a tumbler of 
whisky in

 her hand.
  >         But that would be mean, so I will refrain...
  >         Is her daughter still involved with the organization?
  >         *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
  >         *Sent:* Thursday, April 1, 2021 3:46 PM
  >         *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
  >         *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Who is going to WISPAMERICA?
  >         We're waiting until WISPAPALOOZA in the fall...
  >         We had basically decided a while ago to not do any 
business

  >         travel before June 1st, unless something major
 changed. So
  >         we didn't make any plans.   Part of what we were 
waiting

 for was
  >         for either cases to settle down a lot more than they 
are even
  >         now, OR to be immunized to reduce my risk factors 
down to

 where
  >         I was more comfortable in attending.
  >         As it turns out, it probably would have been ok for 
us to

 go as
  >         both Debbie and I will be fully immunized a couple 
of weeks
  >         before the show.  But, unfortunately, as a vendor 
it's not
  >         really possible to get everything together that 
quickly to
  >         attend.    Plus we have some internal projects in 
progress we

  >         would have to put on hold which can't really be put on
 hold at
  >         this point.   So we're going to have to miss this one.
  >

Re: [AFMUG] Who is going to WISPAMERICA?

[Matt Hoppes]

I'll live my life just the same way I climb towers -- safely.I 
don't climb without a harness I don't go into large groups when 
COVID is around.


Now we'll see... I might be COVID inoculated a few more days and 
I'll know.


On 4/5/21 7:19 PM, Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] wrote:

Dallas county (2.6 million people) has 300 cases a day (as of April 4th).

Quick math says that’s 0.01% of the population has covid.

That's practically non-existent.

Live life, or don't.  Just don't complain when other's live their life.

Jim Bouse
Owner - Brazos WiFi
979-985-5912
http://www.brazoswifi.com

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Monday, April 5, 2021 4:40 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Josh Luthman 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Who is going to WISPAMERICA?

Texas: I'd be going to Dallas.

Pennsylvania: I'm no where near Philly or Pittsburgh.

My County has about 34 new cases per day.

On 4/5/21 12:29 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Even though Pennsylvania has THREE TIMES the cases?  Hmm sure seems
like you'd want to be in Texas with their lesser case count.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 11:39 AM Matt Hoppes
mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote:

 Same here

 Texas clearly thinks this whole thing is a joke.

 On 4/5/21 11:36 AM, Sam Lambie wrote:
  > I am not going to the show this year. Texas politics and lax
 attitude
  > towards a pandemic and other issues is a big concern.
  >
  > On Fri, Apr 2, 2021 at 8:19 AM Josh Luthman
 mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
  > <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
 <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>>> wrote:
  >
  >      >Is her daughter still involved with the organization?
  >
  >     Yes. https://www.wispa.org/wispa_staff.php
  >
  >     Josh Luthman
  >     24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
  >     Direct: 937-552-2343
  >     1100 Wayne St
  >     Suite 1337
  >     Troy, OH 45373
  >
  >
  >     On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 5:58 PM Chuck McCown via AF
 mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
  >     <mailto:af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>> wrote:
  >
  >         I keep refraining from making a joke at Trina’s expense.
  >         I always got along with her just fine.  I thought she was
 a hoot.
  >         But if I was to make a joke it might have gone something like
  >         this: No way Wispapalooza will be a success unless they have
  >         some broad walking the floor with a tumbler of whisky in
 her hand.
  >         But that would be mean, so I will refrain...
  >         Is her daughter still involved with the organization?
  >         *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
  >         *Sent:* Thursday, April 1, 2021 3:46 PM
  >         *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
  >         *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Who is going to WISPAMERICA?
  >         We're waiting until WISPAPALOOZA in the fall...
  >         We had basically decided a while ago to not do any business
  >         travel before June 1st, unless something major
 changed. So
  >         we didn't make any plans.   Part of what we were waiting
 for was
  >         for either cases to settle down a lot more than they are even
  >         now, OR to be immunized to reduce my risk factors down to
 where
  >         I was more comfortable in attending.
  >         As it turns out, it probably would have been ok for us to
 go as
  >         both Debbie and I will be fully immunized a couple of weeks
  >         before the show.  But, unfortunately, as a vendor it's not
  >         really possible to get everything together that quickly to
  >         attend.    Plus we have some internal projects in progress we
  >         would have to put on hold which can't really be put on
 hold at
  >         this point.   So we're going to have to miss this one.
  >         Assuming everything continues trending in the right
 direction,
  >         we'll be in vegas.   We also have a show in I think
 August that
  >         we're planning on attending.
  >         On Wed, Mar 31, 2021 at 12:50 PM dave
 mailto:dmilho...@wletc.com>> wrote:
  >
  >             Im waiting for vegas show
  >
  >
  >             On 3/31/21 1:07 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
  >>             Definitely time to go to an actual show and I know
 I'll be
  >>             there.  B

Re: [AFMUG] Who is going to WISPAMERICA?

[Matt Hoppes]

That is practically non-existent.. and is interesting.   Does that mean 
everyone there has already had it?


How can a county of 2.6 million have 300 cases a day but a county of 
110,000 has 34-50 new cases a day?


On 4/5/21 7:19 PM, Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] wrote:

Dallas county (2.6 million people) has 300 cases a day (as of April 4th).

Quick math says that’s 0.01% of the population has covid.

That's practically non-existent.

Live life, or don't.  Just don't complain when other's live their life.

Jim Bouse
Owner - Brazos WiFi
979-985-5912
http://www.brazoswifi.com

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Monday, April 5, 2021 4:40 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Josh Luthman 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Who is going to WISPAMERICA?

Texas: I'd be going to Dallas.

Pennsylvania: I'm no where near Philly or Pittsburgh.

My County has about 34 new cases per day.

On 4/5/21 12:29 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Even though Pennsylvania has THREE TIMES the cases?  Hmm sure seems
like you'd want to be in Texas with their lesser case count.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 11:39 AM Matt Hoppes
mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote:

 Same here

 Texas clearly thinks this whole thing is a joke.

 On 4/5/21 11:36 AM, Sam Lambie wrote:
  > I am not going to the show this year. Texas politics and lax
 attitude
  > towards a pandemic and other issues is a big concern.
  >
  > On Fri, Apr 2, 2021 at 8:19 AM Josh Luthman
 mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
  > <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
 <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>>> wrote:
  >
  >      >Is her daughter still involved with the organization?
  >
  >     Yes. https://www.wispa.org/wispa_staff.php
  >
  >     Josh Luthman
  >     24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
  >     Direct: 937-552-2343
  >     1100 Wayne St
  >     Suite 1337
  >     Troy, OH 45373
  >
  >
  >     On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 5:58 PM Chuck McCown via AF
 mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
  >     <mailto:af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>> wrote:
  >
  >         I keep refraining from making a joke at Trina’s expense.
  >         I always got along with her just fine.  I thought she was
 a hoot.
  >         But if I was to make a joke it might have gone something like
  >         this: No way Wispapalooza will be a success unless they have
  >         some broad walking the floor with a tumbler of whisky in
 her hand.
  >         But that would be mean, so I will refrain...
  >         Is her daughter still involved with the organization?
  >         *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
  >         *Sent:* Thursday, April 1, 2021 3:46 PM
  >         *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
  >         *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Who is going to WISPAMERICA?
  >         We're waiting until WISPAPALOOZA in the fall...
  >         We had basically decided a while ago to not do any business
  >         travel before June 1st, unless something major
 changed. So
  >         we didn't make any plans.   Part of what we were waiting
 for was
  >         for either cases to settle down a lot more than they are even
  >         now, OR to be immunized to reduce my risk factors down to
 where
  >         I was more comfortable in attending.
  >         As it turns out, it probably would have been ok for us to
 go as
  >         both Debbie and I will be fully immunized a couple of weeks
  >         before the show.  But, unfortunately, as a vendor it's not
  >         really possible to get everything together that quickly to
  >         attend.    Plus we have some internal projects in progress we
  >         would have to put on hold which can't really be put on
 hold at
  >         this point.   So we're going to have to miss this one.
  >         Assuming everything continues trending in the right
 direction,
  >         we'll be in vegas.   We also have a show in I think
 August that
  >         we're planning on attending.
  >         On Wed, Mar 31, 2021 at 12:50 PM dave
 mailto:dmilho...@wletc.com>> wrote:
  >
  >             Im waiting for vegas show
  >
  >
  >             On 3/31/21 1:07 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
  >>             Definitely time to go to an actual show and I know
 I'll be
  >>             there.  Be nice to see people in person 

Re: [AFMUG] Who is going to WISPAMERICA?

[Matt Hoppes]

Texas: I'd be going to Dallas.

Pennsylvania: I'm no where near Philly or Pittsburgh.

My County has about 34 new cases per day.

On 4/5/21 12:29 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
Even though Pennsylvania has THREE TIMES the cases?  Hmm sure seems like 
you'd want to be in Texas with their lesser case count.


Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 11:39 AM Matt Hoppes 
<mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote:


Same here

Texas clearly thinks this whole thing is a joke.

On 4/5/21 11:36 AM, Sam Lambie wrote:
 > I am not going to the show this year. Texas politics and lax
attitude
 > towards a pandemic and other issues is a big concern.
 >
 > On Fri, Apr 2, 2021 at 8:19 AM Josh Luthman
mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
 > <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
<mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>>> wrote:
 >
 >      >Is her daughter still involved with the organization?
 >
 >     Yes. https://www.wispa.org/wispa_staff.php
 >
 >     Josh Luthman
 >     24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
 >     Direct: 937-552-2343
 >     1100 Wayne St
 >     Suite 1337
 >     Troy, OH 45373
 >
 >
 >     On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 5:58 PM Chuck McCown via AF
mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
 >     <mailto:af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>> wrote:
 >
 >         I keep refraining from making a joke at Trina’s expense.
 >         I always got along with her just fine.  I thought she was
a hoot.
 >         But if I was to make a joke it might have gone something like
 >         this: No way Wispapalooza will be a success unless they have
 >         some broad walking the floor with a tumbler of whisky in
her hand.
 >         But that would be mean, so I will refrain...
 >         Is her daughter still involved with the organization?
 >         *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
 >         *Sent:* Thursday, April 1, 2021 3:46 PM
 >         *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
 >         *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Who is going to WISPAMERICA?
 >         We're waiting until WISPAPALOOZA in the fall...
 >         We had basically decided a while ago to not do any business
 >         travel before June 1st, unless something major
changed. So
 >         we didn't make any plans.   Part of what we were waiting
for was
 >         for either cases to settle down a lot more than they are even
 >         now, OR to be immunized to reduce my risk factors down to
where
 >         I was more comfortable in attending.
 >         As it turns out, it probably would have been ok for us to
go as
 >         both Debbie and I will be fully immunized a couple of weeks
 >         before the show.  But, unfortunately, as a vendor it's not
 >         really possible to get everything together that quickly to
 >         attend.    Plus we have some internal projects in progress we
 >         would have to put on hold which can't really be put on
hold at
 >         this point.   So we're going to have to miss this one.
 >         Assuming everything continues trending in the right
direction,
 >         we'll be in vegas.   We also have a show in I think
August that
 >         we're planning on attending.
 >         On Wed, Mar 31, 2021 at 12:50 PM dave
mailto:dmilho...@wletc.com>> wrote:
 >
 >             Im waiting for vegas show
 >
 >
 >             On 3/31/21 1:07 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
 >>             Definitely time to go to an actual show and I know
I'll be
 >>             there.  Be nice to see people in person finally.
 >>             Josh Luthman
 >>             24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
 >>             Direct: 937-552-2343
 >>             1100 Wayne St
 >>             Suite 1337
 >>             Troy, OH 45373
 >>             On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 4:26 PM Daniel White
 >>             mailto:dwh...@atheral.com>> wrote:
 >>
 >>                 Sam,
 >>
 >>                 I'll be there.  I think turn-out will be pretty good
 >>                 all things considering... but probably 2017-2018
type
 >>                 attendance levels than what WISPA was projecting for
 >>                 WISPAmerica 2020 before it was canceled.
 >>
 >>                 WA historically has been the "engineerin

Re: [AFMUG] Who is going to WISPAMERICA?

[Matt Hoppes]

Forrest - keep in mind there are lots of reports of folks getting 
immunizes and then contracting COVID weeks later.


I'm not sure how we finally get out of this.

On 4/5/21 11:36 AM, Sam Lambie wrote:
I am not going to the show this year. Texas politics and lax attitude 
towards a pandemic and other issues is a big concern.


On Fri, Apr 2, 2021 at 8:19 AM Josh Luthman > wrote:


 >Is her daughter still involved with the organization?

Yes. https://www.wispa.org/wispa_staff.php

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 5:58 PM Chuck McCown via AF mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> wrote:

I keep refraining from making a joke at Trina’s expense.
I always got along with her just fine.  I thought she was a hoot.
But if I was to make a joke it might have gone something like
this: No way Wispapalooza will be a success unless they have
some broad walking the floor with a tumbler of whisky in her hand.
But that would be mean, so I will refrain...
Is her daughter still involved with the organization?
*From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
*Sent:* Thursday, April 1, 2021 3:46 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Who is going to WISPAMERICA?
We're waiting until WISPAPALOOZA in the fall...
We had basically decided a while ago to not do any business
travel before June 1st, unless something major changed. So
we didn't make any plans.   Part of what we were waiting for was
for either cases to settle down a lot more than they are even
now, OR to be immunized to reduce my risk factors down to where
I was more comfortable in attending.
As it turns out, it probably would have been ok for us to go as
both Debbie and I will be fully immunized a couple of weeks
before the show.  But, unfortunately, as a vendor it's not
really possible to get everything together that quickly to
attend.    Plus we have some internal projects in progress we
would have to put on hold which can't really be put on hold at
this point.   So we're going to have to miss this one.
Assuming everything continues trending in the right direction,
we'll be in vegas.   We also have a show in I think August that
we're planning on attending.
On Wed, Mar 31, 2021 at 12:50 PM dave  wrote:

Im waiting for vegas show


On 3/31/21 1:07 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Definitely time to go to an actual show and I know I'll be
there.  Be nice to see people in person finally.
Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 4:26 PM Daniel White
 wrote:

Sam,

I'll be there.  I think turn-out will be pretty good
all things considering... but probably 2017-2018 type
attendance levels than what WISPA was projecting for
WISPAmerica 2020 before it was canceled.

WA historically has been the "engineering" show.
Deeper dives.  An "Animal Farm" track (vendors doing
their deep dives like the old and much cherished
Animal Farm shows).  Turn-out is always smaller
because there are less business/accounting/HR focused
tracks.

Obviously the circumstances could be better - but WA
has a very different feel than WISPAPALOOZA.  I love
both shows (and I'm not just saying that).

photograph  
Daniel White
Co-Founder
phone:+1 (702) 470-2770
direct:+1 (702) 470-2766


Sam Lambie
March 30, 2021 at 14:00
Just wondering if during these unprecedented times if
there will be a crowd or a ghost town in Grapevine TX.
I've been to the LV WISPaPalooza shows a couple of
times, is this any more informative and better
organized or??
-- 
-- 
*Sam Lambie*

Taosnet Wireless Tech.
575-758-7598 Office
www.Taosnet.com 




-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
- Forrest


---

Re: [AFMUG] Who is going to WISPAMERICA?

[Matt Hoppes]

Same here

Texas clearly thinks this whole thing is a joke.

On 4/5/21 11:36 AM, Sam Lambie wrote:
I am not going to the show this year. Texas politics and lax attitude 
towards a pandemic and other issues is a big concern.


On Fri, Apr 2, 2021 at 8:19 AM Josh Luthman > wrote:


 >Is her daughter still involved with the organization?

Yes. https://www.wispa.org/wispa_staff.php

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 5:58 PM Chuck McCown via AF mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> wrote:

I keep refraining from making a joke at Trina’s expense.
I always got along with her just fine.  I thought she was a hoot.
But if I was to make a joke it might have gone something like
this: No way Wispapalooza will be a success unless they have
some broad walking the floor with a tumbler of whisky in her hand.
But that would be mean, so I will refrain...
Is her daughter still involved with the organization?
*From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
*Sent:* Thursday, April 1, 2021 3:46 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Who is going to WISPAMERICA?
We're waiting until WISPAPALOOZA in the fall...
We had basically decided a while ago to not do any business
travel before June 1st, unless something major changed. So
we didn't make any plans.   Part of what we were waiting for was
for either cases to settle down a lot more than they are even
now, OR to be immunized to reduce my risk factors down to where
I was more comfortable in attending.
As it turns out, it probably would have been ok for us to go as
both Debbie and I will be fully immunized a couple of weeks
before the show.  But, unfortunately, as a vendor it's not
really possible to get everything together that quickly to
attend.    Plus we have some internal projects in progress we
would have to put on hold which can't really be put on hold at
this point.   So we're going to have to miss this one.
Assuming everything continues trending in the right direction,
we'll be in vegas.   We also have a show in I think August that
we're planning on attending.
On Wed, Mar 31, 2021 at 12:50 PM dave  wrote:

Im waiting for vegas show


On 3/31/21 1:07 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Definitely time to go to an actual show and I know I'll be
there.  Be nice to see people in person finally.
Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 4:26 PM Daniel White
 wrote:

Sam,

I'll be there.  I think turn-out will be pretty good
all things considering... but probably 2017-2018 type
attendance levels than what WISPA was projecting for
WISPAmerica 2020 before it was canceled.

WA historically has been the "engineering" show.
Deeper dives.  An "Animal Farm" track (vendors doing
their deep dives like the old and much cherished
Animal Farm shows).  Turn-out is always smaller
because there are less business/accounting/HR focused
tracks.

Obviously the circumstances could be better - but WA
has a very different feel than WISPAPALOOZA.  I love
both shows (and I'm not just saying that).

photograph  
Daniel White
Co-Founder
phone:+1 (702) 470-2770
direct:+1 (702) 470-2766


Sam Lambie
March 30, 2021 at 14:00
Just wondering if during these unprecedented times if
there will be a crowd or a ghost town in Grapevine TX.
I've been to the LV WISPaPalooza shows a couple of
times, is this any more informative and better
organized or??
-- 
-- 
*Sam Lambie*

Taosnet Wireless Tech.
575-758-7598 Office
www.Taosnet.com 




-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
- Forrest



-- 
AF mailing li

Re: [AFMUG] 3GHz 450M Cabling

[Matt Hoppes]

I'd rather have huge terminals though =\   so much easier to just deal 
with bare wire that gets screwed in.


On 4/5/21 10:24 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
I'm sometimes guilty of harping on a small detail that bothers me.  I 
think you're doing the same right now.  None of this is objectively a 
big deal.


I have done something similar to Gino on the LTE deployments where 
Telrad used a 4-wire connector.  I.E.: Use a surge suppressor or other 
connection point to transition from 4 wires to 2 wires.  You do have to 
up-size the two wires appropriately.


I can't speak for Cambium as to why they chose a 4-wire connectorbut 
use a DC wire size calculator and consider the more extreme cases with a 
tower deployment.  4-wire lets you reduce the wire size two steps 
compared to 2-wire. So 10ga becomes 14ga, etc.  I'd guess they were 
trying to avoid putting huge terminals on the radio head.


-Adam



On 4/5/2021 9:53 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

The issue with 4 wire:

1) It's stupid -- whatever I can do with 4 wire I should be able to do 
with 2 wire.


2) The connectors are extremely small, to the point they are hard to 
work with and more things to break.


3) It's not standard red/black, so more chance for someone to wire 
something up wrong


4) More connectors to go bad.  And small wire on each of them. More 
things to break down the road.


On 4/2/21 5:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:

What's the issue with 4 wires?


On 4/2/2021 4:39 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

We are using Ubiquiti SM Bi-Di SFPs... work great.

Fiber, I'm using fiber from Benton Cook at CTI.  Lanshack also sells 
pre-terminated outdoor micro armored.


Power -- is a pain in the backside.   Talk to Benton at CTI... he's 
got some cheaper Belden cable... but seriously, Cambium needs to do 
away with the 4 wire.


You will need to buy special glands for the fiber (PG-13 or 
something is the part number).


On 4/2/21 3:34 PM, Jason McKemie wrote:
What are you guys using for fiber and power cabling to the 3GHz 
450M?  Is part C65L008A the correct number for the single mode 
SFP and does it come with the gland and licenses? Putting up my 
first one and I want to make sure I have everything in-place.










--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] 3GHz 450M Cabling

[Matt Hoppes]

That only appears to have 3 cables in it?

On 4/2/21 6:24 PM, Josh Baird wrote:
Power really isn't a pain in the ass.  Just use this (which is what Josh 
L. linked):


https://www.wireandcableyourway.com/18-4c-thhn-pvc-tray-cable.html?fbclid=IwAR3Uzvs2Ooe-7btY6nMI-yzr0nrbG_WIJb4RqyzgxgJjc3Ay-YNEK0NF0Oc

You don't need to buy special glands either.  Just buy the package of 
glands that Cambium sells.  They work fine.


Fiberstore generic SFPs work fine.


On Fri, Apr 2, 2021 at 4:40 PM Matt Hoppes 
<mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote:


We are using Ubiquiti SM Bi-Di SFPs... work great.

Fiber, I'm using fiber from Benton Cook at CTI.  Lanshack also sells
pre-terminated outdoor micro armored.

Power -- is a pain in the backside.   Talk to Benton at CTI... he's got
some cheaper Belden cable... but seriously, Cambium needs to do away
with the 4 wire.

You will need to buy special glands for the fiber (PG-13 or
something is
the part number).

On 4/2/21 3:34 PM, Jason McKemie wrote:
 > What are you guys using for fiber and power cabling to the 3GHz
450M?
 > Is part C65L008A the correct number for the single mode SFP
and does
 > it come with the gland and licenses? Putting up my first one and
I want
 > to make sure I have everything in-place.
 >

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] 3GHz 450M Cabling

[Matt Hoppes]

The issue with 4 wire:

1) It's stupid -- whatever I can do with 4 wire I should be able to do 
with 2 wire.


2) The connectors are extremely small, to the point they are hard to 
work with and more things to break.


3) It's not standard red/black, so more chance for someone to wire 
something up wrong


4) More connectors to go bad.  And small wire on each of them.   More 
things to break down the road.


On 4/2/21 5:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:

What's the issue with 4 wires?


On 4/2/2021 4:39 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

We are using Ubiquiti SM Bi-Di SFPs... work great.

Fiber, I'm using fiber from Benton Cook at CTI.  Lanshack also sells 
pre-terminated outdoor micro armored.


Power -- is a pain in the backside.   Talk to Benton at CTI... he's 
got some cheaper Belden cable... but seriously, Cambium needs to do 
away with the 4 wire.


You will need to buy special glands for the fiber (PG-13 or something 
is the part number).


On 4/2/21 3:34 PM, Jason McKemie wrote:
What are you guys using for fiber and power cabling to the 3GHz 
450M?  Is part C65L008A the correct number for the single mode 
SFP and does it come with the gland and licenses? Putting up my first 
one and I want to make sure I have everything in-place.








--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] 3GHz 450M Cabling

[Matt Hoppes]

Tell me more about this jumper please.  By far the worst part of these 
radios is the power wire.


On 4/3/21 6:28 AM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:
We have run the numbers and the most cost-efficient kit we have found is 
this setup with individual runs per AP:


FS FTTA Armored Fiber https://www.fs.com/c/ftta-patch-cables-3856

Direct Burial 14/2 Wire 
https://www.parts-express.com/JSC-Wire-1000-ft.-14-AWG-Direct-Burial-Speaker-Lighting-Wire-100-784


Transtector DC Surge SS https://www.winncom.com/en/products/1101-1110

Custom 4 wire to 4 pin molex Jumper (ISP Supplies) or make you own

The Transtector allows you to transition from the 2 wire main feed to a 
4 wire jumper into the Medusa and it’s easier to troubleshoot or field 
replace.


We would love to have a nice hybrid solution but all of them are 2x the 
cost


Cost Matrix:



100'



200'



300'

FS Armored Fiber



$   39.00



  $   64.00



  $   89.00

14/2 Power Cable



$   33.00



  $   66.00



  $   99.00

Transector SS



$ 150.00



  $ 150.00



  $ 150.00

Custom DC Jumper



$   20.00



  $   20.00



  $   20.00



$ 242.00



  $ 280.00



  $ 338.00







2 Sector



$ 484.00



  $ 560.00



  $ 676.00

3 Sector



$ 726.00



  $ 840.00



  $  1,014.00

4 Sector



$ 968.00



  $  1,120.00



  $  1,352.00

*GinoVillarini
*Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
aeronet-logo <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> 	inc500 
<https://www.inc.com/profile/aeronet> 	fb-logo 
<https://www.facebook.com/aeronetpr/> 	insta-logo 
<https://www.instagram.com/aeronetpr/?hl=en> 	in-logo 
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/aeronet-broadband-corp> 	tw-logo 
<https://twitter.com/AeroNetPR?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor> 
	yt-logo <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr2Q9WBrAYVm3Fn970Jd6VA> 	


www.aeronetpr.com <http://www.aeronetpr.com> | Metro Office Park #18 
Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968


*From: *AF  on behalf of Josh Luthman 


*Date: *Friday, April 2, 2021 at 5:02 PM
*To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 3GHz 450M Cabling

*[https://www.wireandcableyourway.com/18-4c-thhn-pvc-tray-cable.html?fbclid=IwAR3Uzvs2Ooe-7btY6nMI-yzr0nrbG_WIJb4RqyzgxgJjc3Ay-YNEK0NF0Oc 
18awg4c cable]
*[https://www.discount-low-voltage.com/Cable/Singlemode-Outdoor-Armored-Preterminated-Fiber 
preterminated fiber]
*[https://www.amazon.com/Molex-63811-1000-Service-Grade-Crimping/dp/B00OVF2AKI 
Molex 63811-1000 crimper]
*[https://www.amazon.com/Molex-11-03-0044-Connector-Accessories-Extraction/dp/B00GOIY1NE/ 
Molex 11-03-0044 extractor]
*[https://www.fs.com/products/97935.html Armored UV resistant 1m armored 
patch cable dual duplex LC UPC]
*[https://www.streakwave.com/cambium-n00l140a-silver-rj-45-gland-spare-pg16-long 
N00L140A SFP glands]


We use FS bidi that we've got a shelf of already.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, Apr 2, 2021 at 4:40 PM Matt Hoppes 
<mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote:


We are using Ubiquiti SM Bi-Di SFPs... work great.

Fiber, I'm using fiber from Benton Cook at CTI.  Lanshack also sells
pre-terminated outdoor micro armored.

Power -- is a pain in the backside.   Talk to Benton at CTI... he's got
some cheaper Belden cable... but seriously, Cambium needs to do away
with the 4 wire.

You will need to buy special glands for the fiber (PG-13 or
something is
the part number).

On 4/2/21 3:34 PM, Jason McKemie wrote:
 > What are you guys using for fiber and power cabling to the 3GHz
450M?
 > Is part C65L008A the correct number for the single mode SFP
and does
 > it come with the gland and licenses? Putting up my first one and
I want
 > to make sure I have everything in-place.
 >

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] 3GHz 450M Cabling

[Matt Hoppes]

We are using Ubiquiti SM Bi-Di SFPs... work great.

Fiber, I'm using fiber from Benton Cook at CTI.  Lanshack also sells 
pre-terminated outdoor micro armored.


Power -- is a pain in the backside.   Talk to Benton at CTI... he's got 
some cheaper Belden cable... but seriously, Cambium needs to do away 
with the 4 wire.


You will need to buy special glands for the fiber (PG-13 or something is 
the part number).


On 4/2/21 3:34 PM, Jason McKemie wrote:
What are you guys using for fiber and power cabling to the 3GHz 450M?  
Is part C65L008A the correct number for the single mode SFP and does 
it come with the gland and licenses? Putting up my first one and I want 
to make sure I have everything in-place.




--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Wireless future

[Matt Hoppes]

All that is in the air will one day be on the wire, and that which is on 
the wire will one day be in the air.


On 3/26/21 8:05 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:

We are doing lots of fiber.  :)

It takes time though.


On 3/26/2021 1:34 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Just start doing fiber.

Sent from my iPhone


On Mar 25, 2021, at 8:54 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:



That's what I'm seeing as well I guess.  Can't get more SNR, can't 
get more hertz.


The only path to improvement I see is really big beam forming array 
with even more MU-MIMO chains.  Cost will go up accordingly I think.


The alternate path would be millimeter wave with all the obvious 
caveats. Not trying to be a doomsayer, but I'm seeing a wall in front 
of me.



On 3/25/2021 6:30 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
It's seems to me that it would require a pretty radical change for 
fixed wireless to progress a whole lot beyond what it's currently 
capable of. Maybe 6ghz being opened up will allow for using much 
wider channels, and keep things interesting, but I don't see things 
like MU-MIMO being more than an incremental improvement, like 
practically everything over the past decade or so.


60ghz has the potential to be a true competitor to fiber, but that's 
going to require a completely different network design than what 
we're used to.


On Thu, Mar 25, 2021 at 11:39 AM Steve Jones 
mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:


In 10 years it will be trending to niche market for home use. We
will have fiber to the farm so it is what it is.

On Thu, Mar 25, 2021, 11:26 AM jerry bickle
mailto:je...@rfdesignservices.com>>
wrote:

Best to watch The Simpson’s for a glimpse into the future.
I’m pretty sure there’s time travel involved.

I think RF Design hasn’t evolved much.  Simple N=1 reuse and
cell splits are the method that’s been used successfully for
decades.  Going smaller isn’t innovative.  MiMo is a big
leap however.  Broader channels are the only way to deliver
huge bandwidth.  Going higher and higher QAM doesn’t work
well for mobile handsets and the diminishing returns and
crazy timing necessary to maintain a high QAM other than a
lab are not practical. Small cells are UGLY.  They’re also
close to the people and EMR is a concern to many. The FCC
has guidelines that I do trust but we’re not dealing with
sites that are 100’ tall and every 1/2 mile now.  They’re on
just about every street corner.  Most carriers are digging
up the streets to bring fiber to each of these poles.  It’s
an expensive deployment.  802.11ax is the best innovation
I’ve seen and it is truly 5G more than anything else that’s
out there.  8x8 and 12x12 MiMo and color coded streams for
interference mitigation are a big difference maker.

Jerry Bickle

President

RF Design Services, LLC

Cell: 405.650.3366

Fax: 405.330.1310

Email: je...@rfdesignservices.com


WEB: www.rfdesignservices.com 

*From: *AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> on behalf of Adam Moffett
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>>
*Reply-To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Date: *Thursday, March 25, 2021 at 9:59 AM
*To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject: *[AFMUG] Wireless future

Any opinions on where wireless technology will evolve in the
next 5 years?

There's a compound annual growth in demand, and trying to
think about

how manufacturers will meet that going forward.  I'm
assuming we can't

count on bigger channels or more spectrum.  So what then?
More MU-MIMO

chains?  Or is it going to have to be street level small
cells (60ghz

etc)?  Or something else?

We're investing heavily in fiber, as I know a lot of you
are, but the

wireless customers aren't going to go away.

-- 


AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 


https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__af.afmug.com_mailman_listinfo_af-5Faf.afmug.com&d=DwIGaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=oZldojrM2-7OE-SOcQyzFlyOFVuvqI9-MKCJpgPtw5o&m=bOiKRwWQBPYARG4WBm8Fvsompi82WCazDT9jImYirBk&s=y0OEvTCKA-uC0trV_bZmS0o2H7KqtGiFk0J4YCzSDSA&e=

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com






--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/lis

Re: [AFMUG] Wireless future

[Matt Hoppes]

A few thoughts on this we may have gotten to where we've gotten... 
but... I believe bandwidth usage has plateued.  Some will argue with me, 
and I might be wrong...


But at some point it is what it is.

4K video?   Can you really see 8K?  No   4K used to require 30 
megabits, now it's codeced down to 20, sometimes as little as 10-15.


Video streaming is bursty and codecs are getting better.Other tasks 
(like loading a web page) are very bursty and only happen for a short 
period of time.



Now if online cloud gaming ever takes off, that's different but I'm 
not sure we are anywhere near that.


For that reason I'm not overly concerned for the next 10-15 years.I 
think we can maintain a business wirelessly, provided we provide a good 
experience to the end user.


On 3/25/21 6:30 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
It's seems to me that it would require a pretty radical change for fixed 
wireless to progress a whole lot beyond what it's currently capable of. 
Maybe 6ghz being opened up will allow for using much wider channels, and 
keep things interesting, but I don't see things like MU-MIMO being more 
than an incremental improvement, like practically everything over the 
past decade or so.


60ghz has the potential to be a true competitor to fiber, but that's 
going to require a completely different network design than what we're 
used to.


On Thu, Mar 25, 2021 at 11:39 AM Steve Jones > wrote:


In 10 years it will be trending to niche market for home use. We
will have fiber to the farm so it is what it is.

On Thu, Mar 25, 2021, 11:26 AM jerry bickle
mailto:je...@rfdesignservices.com>> wrote:

Best to watch The Simpson’s for a glimpse into the future.  I’m
pretty sure there’s time travel involved. 

__ __

I think RF Design hasn’t evolved much.  Simple N=1 reuse and
cell splits are the method that’s been used successfully for
decades.  Going smaller isn’t innovative.  MiMo is a big leap
however.  Broader channels are the only way to deliver huge
bandwidth.  Going higher and higher QAM doesn’t work well for
mobile handsets and the diminishing returns and crazy timing
necessary to maintain a high QAM other than a lab are not
practical.  Small cells are UGLY.  They’re also close to the
people and EMR is a concern to many.  The FCC has guidelines
that I do trust but we’re not dealing with sites that are 100’
tall and every 1/2 mile now.  They’re on just about every street
corner.  Most carriers are digging up the streets to bring fiber
to each of these poles.  It’s an expensive deployment.  802.11ax
is the best innovation I’ve seen and it is truly 5G more than
anything else that’s out there.  8x8 and 12x12 MiMo and color
coded streams for interference mitigation are a big difference
maker. 

__ __

Jerry Bickle

President

RF Design Services, LLC

Cell: 405.650.3366

Fax: 405.330.1310

Email: je...@rfdesignservices.com


WEB: www.rfdesignservices.com 

__ __

__ __

__ __

*From: *AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> on behalf of Adam Moffett
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>>
*Reply-To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Date: *Thursday, March 25, 2021 at 9:59 AM
*To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject: *[AFMUG] Wireless future

__ __

Any opinions on where wireless technology will evolve in the
next 5 years?

__ __

There's a compound annual growth in demand, and trying to think
about 

how manufacturers will meet that going forward.  I'm assuming we
can't 

count on bigger channels or more spectrum.  So what then?  More
MU-MIMO 

chains?  Or is it going to have to be street level small cells
(60ghz 

etc)?  Or something else?

__ __

We're investing heavily in fiber, as I know a lot of you are,
but the 

wireless customers aren't going to go away.

__ __

__ __

__ __

-- 

AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 


https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__af.afmug.com_mailman_listinfo_af-5Faf.afmug.com&d=DwIGaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=oZldojrM2-7OE-SOcQyzFlyOFVuvqI9-MKCJpgPtw5o&m=bOiKRwWQBPYARG4WBm8Fvsompi82WCazDT9jImYirBk&s=y0OEvTCKA-uC0trV_bZmS0o2H7KqtGiFk0J4YCzSDSA&e=

__ __

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/m

Re: [AFMUG] Wireless future

[Matt Hoppes]

I think smaller cells is where it's at.   We're already moving to roof 
top installs in town.


But even so, technology has gotten better.

Consider the Alvarion VL radios just 10 years ago.  SISO, 54 megabits at 
best -- which was about 25 megabits.


Now we're doing MIMO and 150 megabits in a 20MHz channel.  We have GPS Sync.

I will say, what I would like to see is higher power in some of these 
bands like 60GHz what exactly are we going to interfere with?!?!


If I could go 3-4 miles with 60GHz with a beamforming antenna... I could 
knock the socks off any wired carrier.


On 3/25/21 10:57 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:

Any opinions on where wireless technology will evolve in the next 5 years?

There's a compound annual growth in demand, and trying to think about 
how manufacturers will meet that going forward.  I'm assuming we can't 
count on bigger channels or more spectrum.  So what then?  More MU-MIMO 
chains?  Or is it going to have to be street level small cells (60ghz 
etc)?  Or something else?


We're investing heavily in fiber, as I know a lot of you are, but the 
wireless customers aren't going to go away.






--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Rick left Baicells?

[Matt Hoppes]

Nope.

On 3/10/21 12:44 PM, Aeron Wireless wrote:

Can you blame him?

On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 12:43 PM Steve Jones > wrote:


image.png


-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Rick left Baicells?

[Matt Hoppes]

That is correct.   Bad sign for BaiCells... good for Rick.

On 3/10/21 12:41 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

image.png





--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Star link travelling and results

[Matt Hoppes]

The vehicle was doing 500MPH?!?  What kind of vehicle was this exactly?

On 3/9/21 1:45 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
I did airborne PBXs using a Rockwell Collins Inmarsat antenna that was 
mounted on a vehicle doing 500 mph.


-Original Message- From: Robert Andrews
Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 9:54 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Star link travelling and results

I think it was a joke that Musk had said the dish could be mounted just
like it is on a vehicle...

On 03/09/2021 05:02 AM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:

Is this a real question?

*GinoVillarini
*Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
aeronet-logo  inc500 
 fb-logo 
 insta-logo 
 in-logo 
 tw-logo 
 
yt-logo 
www.aeronetpr.com  | Metro Office Park #18 
Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968


*From: *AF  on behalf of CBB - Jay Fuller 


*Date: *Monday, March 8, 2021 at 7:14 PM
*To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Star link travelling and results

How's the wind loading on that dish going to be at 500+ mph?

- Reply message -
From: "Chuck McCown via AF" 
To: 
Cc: "Chuck McCown" 
Subject: [AFMUG] Star link travelling and results
Date: Mon, Mar 8, 2021 3:13 PM

My overly optimistic forehead brain tells me that Starlink will be so 
successful internationally for governments, military, industry, remote 
rural etc etc that they will max out their system in the first few 
years without even needing any domestic customers.  I am sure they 
will come out with a mobile package soon and Teslas will have it built 
in.


*From:*Adam Moffett

*Sent:*Monday, March 8, 2021 7:34 AM

*To:*af@af.afmug.com

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Star link travelling and results

Nobody mourned the end of dialup or ISDN.  When the end of fixed 
wireless comes, nobody will mourn that either.  The world will move on 
and you'll have to adapt to it.


But I'll be a lot more worried about Starlink if they get allocated 
more spectrum.  2ghz sounds like a lot, but not that much compared to 
what they're trying to do.


On 3/7/2021 12:06 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:

    Was Netflix the end of DVDs?

    It will be a challenge for sure, but in cases where WISPs can offer
    100mbit+ speeds to customers (usually due to few/no trees), they
    should be able to compete fine.

    Or cases where customers are surrounded by trees and Starlink won't
    work - but in those cases they need to be ready to spend up to a few
    thousand dollars for a tower for WISP CPE.

    On Sun, Mar 7, 2021, 10:42 AM  wrote:

    So this is the END of WISP?

    On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 12:00 PM Robert 
    wrote:

    20 mile radius from registered address...



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDEtuKgUw_g&ab_channel=NowYouKnow

    --     AF mailing list
    AF@af.afmug.com
    http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug..com
    

    --     AF mailing list
    AF@af.afmug.com
    http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug..com
    





--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com







--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Star link travelling and results

[Matt Hoppes]

And.. there are still dial-up oeprators operating.

On 3/8/21 12:55 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
I went with a buddy to look at a horizontal drill this weekend. The 
seller is going to train me on the process. No different than dial up 
operators who decided to learn the OSP of the next iteration of data 
delivery.


On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 8:35 AM Adam Moffett > wrote:


Nobody mourned the end of dialup or ISDN.  When the end of fixed
wireless comes, nobody will mourn that either.  The world will move
on and you'll have to adapt to it.

But I'll be a lot more worried about Starlink if they get allocated
more spectrum.  2ghz sounds like a lot, but not that much compared
to what they're trying to do.


On 3/7/2021 12:06 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:

Was Netflix the end of DVDs?

It will be a challenge for sure, but in cases where WISPs can
offer 100mbit+ speeds to customers (usually due to few/no trees),
they should be able to compete fine.

Or cases where customers are surrounded by trees and Starlink
won't work - but in those cases they need to be ready to spend up
to a few thousand dollars for a tower for WISP CPE.



On Sun, Mar 7, 2021, 10:42 AM mailto:tekli...@gmail.com>> wrote:

So this is the END of WISP?

On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 12:00 PM Robert mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote:

20 mile radius from registered address...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDEtuKgUw_g&ab_channel=NowYouKnow

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Starlink speeds dip already

[Matt Hoppes]

He's trying to land a Methane filled blimp while ignited!  We already 
provided this was a bad idea with the Hindenburg.


On 3/3/21 6:50 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
what part of beta dont people understand? is it because general 
consumers are getting beta and dont actually know what beta is? this is 
the same reason we make people cut trees down now BEFORE we install. we 
used to just install and tell them to cut it. but too many 
people complained about exactly what we told them would happen happening.


I have faith in starlink, I think in 5 years it will be a whole other 
landscape. Musk seems like one of those guys who thrives on detractors 
and proving people wrong.


But regardless, beta is beta

On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 5:15 PM Jaime Solorza > wrote:


Ha...

On Wed, Mar 3, 2021, 3:42 PM Chuck McCown via AF mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> wrote:

Tin cans and string will be better than Hughes.
*From:* Jaime Solorza
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 3, 2021 3:20 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Starlink speeds dip already
 From your mouth to God's ears Chuck on Covid-19...
unfortunately it's going to take a step backwards in Texas..
I heard some ranchers near Big Bend want to switch from Hughes
to Starlink ...my friend does IT work for several of them...
curious to see how well it works.
On Wed, Mar 3, 2021, 1:39 PM Chuck McCown via AF
 wrote:

I think that they are going to find more than enough
customers in hard to serve locations that they will not
encroach on the better served areas too much.  I am always
an optimist.  BTW, Covid will be done in a month...
*From:* Colin Stanners
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 3, 2021 9:50 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Starlink speeds dip already
Starlink *BETA* . Maybe they're simulating load of a few
hundred, or a thousand, customers on each bird to prepare
for when it's actually busy. (based on the "20Gbps" capacity
per sat)
Considering the amount of effort and design that goes into
such a massive and complex system, people should be thankful
that it's working with a good-enough uptime right now.
On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 10:47 AM Dev 
wrote:

Already hearing from folks who have the service that
they’re seeing dips below 15Mbps, and this at light
loads with few customers, we’ll see how this scales. Or
doesn’t. Are others in different geographies seeing similar?
-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Starlink speeds dip already

[Matt Hoppes]

Yup... I'm hearing/seeing the same thing.

On 3/3/21 11:46 AM, Dev wrote:

Already hearing from folks who have the service that they’re seeing dips below 
15Mbps, and this at light loads with few customers, we’ll see how this scales. 
Or doesn’t. Are others in different geographies seeing similar?



--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Your Own Satellite Internet

[Matt Hoppes]

5, 2021 at 12:08 PM Adam Moffett
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>>
wrote:

wellAiming at thousand foot tower from close
range customers we are definitely sometimes more
than 3 degrees up.  Put me in jail I guess.

__ __

On 2/25/2021 1:02 PM, Matt Hopkins wrote:

If I recall correctly it is illegal to aim a
5GHz radio > 3° above the horizon.

    __ __

On Thu, Feb 25, 2021 at 9:43 AM Matt Hoppes
mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>>
wrote:

So here me out.      I've been to low earth
orbit (90,000 feet) with
equipment I can get in my basement/hardware
store.   I've beamed signals
back from 90,000 feet to a radio in my truck.

I'm familiar with how AmSats work (although
have not sent one up myself).

What is preventing a WISP from putting
together a solar powered GeoSync
satellite that has a few Cambium Spots on it
to fully cover your
coverage area?

Yes, you'd have capacity issues if you
didn't plan it correctly, but is
there technically any reason I can't run a
5GHz link to a satellite?
Do you have to pay a "rental" fee to occupy
a space in space to park
your bird?

Yes, I realize there would be latency, but
if you keep the throughput
there (something Hughes Doesn't Do), the
experience wouldn't be half bad
for most things..

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>

http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

__ __

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

__ __

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




__ __

-- 

Carl Peterson

*PORT NETWORKS*

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707 

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Your Own Satellite Internet

[Matt Hoppes]

Well then.

On 2/25/21 1:02 PM, Matt Hopkins wrote:
If I recall correctly it is illegal to aim a 5GHz radio > 3° above the 
horizon.


On Thu, Feb 25, 2021 at 9:43 AM Matt Hoppes 
<mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote:


So here me out.      I've been to low earth orbit (90,000 feet) with
equipment I can get in my basement/hardware store.   I've beamed
signals
back from 90,000 feet to a radio in my truck.

I'm familiar with how AmSats work (although have not sent one up
myself).

What is preventing a WISP from putting together a solar powered GeoSync
satellite that has a few Cambium Spots on it to fully cover your
coverage area?

Yes, you'd have capacity issues if you didn't plan it correctly, but is
there technically any reason I can't run a 5GHz link to a satellite?
Do you have to pay a "rental" fee to occupy a space in space to park
your bird?

Yes, I realize there would be latency, but if you keep the throughput
there (something Hughes Doesn't Do), the experience wouldn't be half
bad
for most things..

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Your Own Satellite Internet

[Matt Hoppes]

Agreed... there's got to be a way to do this though.

On 2/25/21 12:57 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
This may be a pedantic difference, but it's an important one: You 
haven't been to low earth orbit unless you accelerated to 17,000mph or 
so.  You might have visited the edge of orbital altitude at some point, 
but you weren't "in orbit" unless you also achieved the required Delta-V.


Geosync is quite a bit further than low orbit.  26,000 miles or so, and 
you have to go even faster to stay there.


I have no idea what the rules are for owning a satellite.  I doubt 
there's any rent, but getting the speed is expensive enough to be a 
barrier to entry for almost anyone.



On 2/25/2021 12:43 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
So here me out.  I've been to low earth orbit (90,000 feet) with 
equipment I can get in my basement/hardware store.   I've beamed 
signals back from 90,000 feet to a radio in my truck.


I'm familiar with how AmSats work (although have not sent one up myself).

What is preventing a WISP from putting together a solar powered 
GeoSync satellite that has a few Cambium Spots on it to fully cover 
your coverage area?


Yes, you'd have capacity issues if you didn't plan it correctly, but 
is there technically any reason I can't run a 5GHz link to a 
satellite? Do you have to pay a "rental" fee to occupy a space in 
space to park your bird?


Yes, I realize there would be latency, but if you keep the throughput 
there (something Hughes Doesn't Do), the experience wouldn't be half 
bad for most things..






--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

[AFMUG] Your Own Satellite Internet

[Matt Hoppes]

So here me out.  I've been to low earth orbit (90,000 feet) with 
equipment I can get in my basement/hardware store.   I've beamed signals 
back from 90,000 feet to a radio in my truck.


I'm familiar with how AmSats work (although have not sent one up myself).

What is preventing a WISP from putting together a solar powered GeoSync 
satellite that has a few Cambium Spots on it to fully cover your 
coverage area?


Yes, you'd have capacity issues if you didn't plan it correctly, but is 
there technically any reason I can't run a 5GHz link to a satellite? 
Do you have to pay a "rental" fee to occupy a space in space to park 
your bird?


Yes, I realize there would be latency, but if you keep the throughput 
there (something Hughes Doesn't Do), the experience wouldn't be half bad 
for most things..


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] FB account deleted

[Matt Hoppes]

Your phone is a single point of failure? Do you generally not receive text 
messages?

> On Feb 25, 2021, at 10:02 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
> 
> 
> Single point of failure.
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange
> 
> The Brothers WISP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: "Matt Hoppes" 
> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2021 8:57:49 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FB account deleted
> 
> Why do you guys hate to factor authentication I turn it on everywhere I can. 
> Is it really that hard to get a text message and enter a six or eight digit 
> number to know that your account is secure.
> 
> Especially with the ability of most websites to remember the device you’re 
> logging in from it’s usually a once in a great while thing.
> 
> On Feb 25, 2021, at 8:45 AM, Steve Jones  wrote:
> 
> 
> I do hate 2fa as well, I had an issue with a credit card payment to my cell 
> carrier last week, so my service was shut off. So I go to log into my credit 
> card portal, guess where the auth text got sent. But the cumbersome nature of 
> it did force me to rethink my refusal to put alternate forms of payment on 
> file and to actually open credit card statements. 
> Fyi, percent cashback only pays off of you're cards are set to pay the 
> balance automatically and not the default of minimum monthly payment. That 
> default should be illegal too
> 
>> On Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 7:21 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>> I only use 2FA when required. It's a pain in the butt.
>> 
>> I do use a password manager with randomly generated passwords.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: "Steve Jones" 
>> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2021 7:38:11 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FB account deleted
>> 
>> This got me thinking. What do you think the public's tolerance would be for 
>> full throated protection if it came at the cost of inconvenience, like you 
>> have to verify your identity to reset a password, but that also means a 
>> malicious actor would have to do the same. If one of the steps required 
>> human interaction, like going to a bank, or the dmv (never the dmv) or any 
>> authorized identity verification location. Almost every jail and police 
>> department in every podunk town has digital fingerprinting now. Most larger 
>> towns have businesses whose sole purpose is fingerprinting people. There are 
>> tons of ways to verify identity in person on top of the digital mechanisms 
>> attached to Nexus. 
>> 
>> Would the inconvenience force people to become more proactive to avoid the 
>> inconvenience, like actually use a legitimate password manager and 2FA? 
>> Would they maybe not click every link they see?
>> 
>> I think its obvious that adoption, if voluntary  would be virtually nil. But 
>> what if the big 3 apple, Google and facebook implemented it? Noting that 
>> those three also are the verification medium for a large percentage of 
>> everything else.
>> 
>> It's a matter of time until identity theft is a multitrillion dollar 
>> industry, the vast majority is rooted in convenience over security. I can 
>> see even republicans backing funding for this type of thing considering the 
>> cost is going to be much less than the recovery costs of id theft
>> 
>> People will drive 10 miles to get a wifi signal for facebook, it's really 
>> not outside the realm of reason for this to be a feasible process.
>> 
>> Can this idea be patented?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 1:13 PM Seth Mattinen  wrote:
>>> On 2/24/21 06:17, Mark - Myakka Technologies wrote:
>>> > Well she got back in with help from my son.  Still not sure what the 
>>> > deal was.  Guess I'll have to start looking at 1Password or LastPassword.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Facebook actually supports decent 2FA options like TOTP and FIDO (i.e. 
>>> yubikey) for 2FA. I'd recommend enabling one of those.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> 
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> 
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] FB account deleted

[Matt Hoppes]

Why do you guys hate to factor authentication I turn it on everywhere I can. Is 
it really that hard to get a text message and enter a six or eight digit number 
to know that your account is secure.

Especially with the ability of most websites to remember the device you’re 
logging in from it’s usually a once in a great while thing.

> On Feb 25, 2021, at 8:45 AM, Steve Jones  wrote:
> 
> 
> I do hate 2fa as well, I had an issue with a credit card payment to my cell 
> carrier last week, so my service was shut off. So I go to log into my credit 
> card portal, guess where the auth text got sent. But the cumbersome nature of 
> it did force me to rethink my refusal to put alternate forms of payment on 
> file and to actually open credit card statements. 
> Fyi, percent cashback only pays off of you're cards are set to pay the 
> balance automatically and not the default of minimum monthly payment. That 
> default should be illegal too
> 
>> On Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 7:21 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>> I only use 2FA when required. It's a pain in the butt.
>> 
>> I do use a password manager with randomly generated passwords.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: "Steve Jones" 
>> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2021 7:38:11 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FB account deleted
>> 
>> This got me thinking. What do you think the public's tolerance would be for 
>> full throated protection if it came at the cost of inconvenience, like you 
>> have to verify your identity to reset a password, but that also means a 
>> malicious actor would have to do the same. If one of the steps required 
>> human interaction, like going to a bank, or the dmv (never the dmv) or any 
>> authorized identity verification location. Almost every jail and police 
>> department in every podunk town has digital fingerprinting now. Most larger 
>> towns have businesses whose sole purpose is fingerprinting people. There are 
>> tons of ways to verify identity in person on top of the digital mechanisms 
>> attached to Nexus. 
>> 
>> Would the inconvenience force people to become more proactive to avoid the 
>> inconvenience, like actually use a legitimate password manager and 2FA? 
>> Would they maybe not click every link they see?
>> 
>> I think its obvious that adoption, if voluntary  would be virtually nil. But 
>> what if the big 3 apple, Google and facebook implemented it? Noting that 
>> those three also are the verification medium for a large percentage of 
>> everything else.
>> 
>> It's a matter of time until identity theft is a multitrillion dollar 
>> industry, the vast majority is rooted in convenience over security. I can 
>> see even republicans backing funding for this type of thing considering the 
>> cost is going to be much less than the recovery costs of id theft
>> 
>> People will drive 10 miles to get a wifi signal for facebook, it's really 
>> not outside the realm of reason for this to be a feasible process.
>> 
>> Can this idea be patented?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 1:13 PM Seth Mattinen  wrote:
>>> On 2/24/21 06:17, Mark - Myakka Technologies wrote:
>>> > Well she got back in with help from my son.  Still not sure what the 
>>> > deal was.  Guess I'll have to start looking at 1Password or LastPassword.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Facebook actually supports decent 2FA options like TOTP and FIDO (i.e. 
>>> yubikey) for 2FA. I'd recommend enabling one of those.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> 
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> 
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Helicopter on Mars

[Matt Hoppes]

It’s only got a 90 second flight time. So presumably it doesn’t get very far 
away. 

I would guess radio ranging and camera would allow it to get guidance - similar 
to how missals could kick into radio station signals to find a city back in the 
60s. 

> On Feb 18, 2021, at 6:09 PM, Jaime Solorza  wrote:
> 
> 
> BFM
> 
>> On Thu, Feb 18, 2021, 3:38 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>> I wonder how it navigates.  I presume a barometric altimeter will work 
>> there.  But how would they get bearing and distance from the ground vehicle? 
>>  You could use a Doppler antenna array to get a bearing I suppose.  And 
>> maybe some kind of DME for distance.  Like to see a write up on that. 
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Starlink: first come, first served

[Matt Hoppes]

Definately not everywhere.

Starlink is targeting coverage in your area in mid to late 2021. You 
will receive a notification once your Starlink is ready to ship.


On 2/18/21 9:25 AM, fiber...@mail.com wrote:

The Starlink beta is now open to all on a first-come, first-served basis. 
Availability limited based on user density. Residental use only, no moving, no 
sharing, no reselling, but no caps so far and IPv6.

Same $99/month plus ~$600 up front.

I'll be interesting to see how it performs as birds fill up.


- Jared



--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Power outages

[Matt Hoppes]

Also 22% of Texas’ power distribution is currently offline due to the wind 
turbines being iced up. 

> On Feb 15, 2021, at 9:38 PM, Mark Radabaugh  wrote:
> 
> A Air Conditioner or Heat Pump nominally provides about 3-5KW of cooling or 
> heating for every 1 KW it uses in electricity.   Texas has a lot of heat 
> pumps that don’t work well or at all when temperatures get into the teens and 
> they switch to a straight electric resistance heat.   Electric usage triples 
> (or worse) when the heat pump goes to resistance heat.  That never happens 
> with Air Conditioning in the summer.
> 
> Mark
> 
>> On Feb 15, 2021, at 8:56 PM, Steve Jones  wrote:
>> 
>> I dont understand the rolling blackouts. its hot as balls in texas in the 
>> summer so youd figure peak demand with all the AC then is well over what it 
>> is in the winter. Whats stepping up the winter demand? are you guys mostly 
>> electric heat and hot water or something there?
>> 
>> We maybe see some brownout here in peak summer, but winter its never an 
>> issue other than storm damage outages because we never learn to harden 
>> anything here
>> 
>>> On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 7:07 PM Ron M.  wrote:
>>> My home in Fort Stockton has been out for going on 8 hours now, and TNMP 
>>> says repair time is 5pm tomorrow. 
>>> 
>>> I'm in Austin, so won't be back out west until the weekend. At least I've 
>>> got someone looking after the house while I'm gone.
>>> 
 On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 5:39 PM Jaime Solorza  
 wrote:
 El Paso Electric which serves our area and Southern New Mexico is not part 
 of the other Texas utilities experiencing rolling power outages.  Back in 
 2011 we had power outages and water pipe damage.  Both utilities took 
 steps to prove systems with anti-freeze technology and all types of 
 sensors.  
 We installed several sensors and links for many of these projects years 
 ago.
 As of 6:00pm today only 3,000 customers lost power for five minutes.
 Hope you guys are safe. 
 
 
 -- 
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> -- 
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

[AFMUG] ADP

[Matt Hoppes]

Does anyone have a competent contact at ADP?  I’ve been trying to get a tax/W2 
issue resolved for weeks and can’t find anyone who knows what a bill of beans 
is. 
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Starlink - First Blood

[Matt Hoppes]

Probably not hard. 

That being said reports are now coming in that the constellation is collapsing. 

Many reports of speeds down to 10-30mbps. Latency all over the place 300+ms. 

> On Feb 9, 2021, at 7:02 PM, Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
> 
> 
> Wonder (just academic wondering) how hard it will be to jam starlink... just 
> wondering...
>  
> From: Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Tuesday, February 9, 2021 4:59 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink - First Blood
>  
> Ooo. Just saw another customer post on Facebook they ordered Starlink.
>  
> Their house is 150% encased in trees.
>  
> This should be interesting to watch.
>  
> He’s also getting 50 down by 40 up on our service for $110.
> 
>> On Feb 9, 2021, at 1:29 PM, Gino A. Villarini  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Its not koolaid, its great marketing!
>>  
>> Gino Villarini 
>> Founder/President
>> @gvillarini
>> t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204 
>>  
>> www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968
>> 
>> From: AF  on behalf of Josh Luthman 
>> 
>> Date: Tuesday, February 9, 2021 at 2:27 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink - First Blood
>> 
>> People are stupid and willing to suck up the Apple/Elon kool aid?  I'm 
>> shocked.
>> 
>> People think they need 50 mbps or 150 mbps when they have *NO IDEA* what 
>> they're currently using is just a fine example of marketing and bigger is 
>> always better (see muscle cars in the 60s).
>>  
>> Josh Luthman
>> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>  
>>  
>> On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 12:59 PM Robert  wrote:
>> There have been published discussions with Musk about RV's and Starlink and 
>> a separate interview with the developers where the RV use of starlink was 
>> discussed and committed to by both Musk and the developers.   I figure I 
>> want to get the h/w and play with it at a fixed location to understand setup 
>> time, quality, limitations ( can you have another router, address space, 
>> etc. etc.. ) before moving it to the RV.   I figured the list is going to 
>> get pretty long and the h/w will change with expansion of production, 
>> evolution of the service.  So being early will have advantages and 
>> disadvantages.   So final usage in the RV is the goal but not initial need.
>> 
>> On 2/9/21 9:44 AM, David Sovereen via AF wrote:
>> Robert,
>>  
>> I wanted was going to sign up to get Starlink for my RV but saw this on 
>> their web site and decided to postpone until I learned more:
>>  
>> Can I travel with Starlink, or move it to a different address?
>> Starlink satellites are scheduled to send internet down to all users within 
>> a designated area on the ground. This designated area is referred to as a 
>> cell.
>> Your Starlink is assigned to a single cell. If you move your Starlink 
>> outside of its assigned cell, a satellite will not be scheduled to serve 
>> your Starlink and you will not receive internet. This is constrained by 
>> geometry and is not arbitrary geofencing.
>> Please let us know how traveling with it works out for you.  If it does 
>> travel well, I want it!
>>  
>> Thanks,
>>  
>> Dave
>>  
>> David Sovereen
>>  
>> Mercury Network Corporation
>> 2719 Ashman Street, Midland, MI 48640
>> 989.837.3790 x151 office | 888.866.4638 toll free | 989.837.3780 fax
>>  
>> Telephone  |  Internet  |  Hosting
>>  
>> david.sover...@mercury.net
>> www.mercury.net
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Feb 9, 2021, at 12:37 PM, i...@avantwireless.com wrote:
>>  
>> I see that Musk is, a) testing demand, b) raising a chunk of Starlink 
>> specific cash ( no strings attached ), c) figuring out where the next 
>> orbits/ground stations need to be.  d) understanding usage and limitations.  
>>  All very valid reasons to open up general sales.   I threw $100 at it to 
>> get on the list for one that I will use with the RV in the future and to 
>> test the reality of the service.   It should be interesting to watch 
>> performance change with the addition of infrastructure vs. customers.
>> 
>> On 2/9/21 8:46 AM, David Coudron wrote:
>> I ordered a Starlink system as my cabin is in an area that we can get 
>> service right away from Starlink and we don’t service the area with our 
>> network.   Other 

Re: [AFMUG] Starlink - First Blood

[Matt Hoppes]

Ooo. Just saw another customer post on Facebook they ordered Starlink. 

Their house is 150% encased in trees. 

This should be interesting to watch. 

He’s also getting 50 down by 40 up on our service for $110. 

> On Feb 9, 2021, at 1:29 PM, Gino A. Villarini  wrote:
> 
> 
> Its not koolaid, its great marketing!
>  
> Gino Villarini 
> Founder/President
> @gvillarini
> t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204 
>   
> www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968
> 
> From: AF  on behalf of Josh Luthman 
> 
> Date: Tuesday, February 9, 2021 at 2:27 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink - First Blood
> 
> People are stupid and willing to suck up the Apple/Elon kool aid?  I'm 
> shocked.
> 
> People think they need 50 mbps or 150 mbps when they have *NO IDEA* what 
> they're currently using is just a fine example of marketing and bigger is 
> always better (see muscle cars in the 60s).
>  
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>  
>  
> On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 12:59 PM Robert  wrote:
> There have been published discussions with Musk about RV's and Starlink and a 
> separate interview with the developers where the RV use of starlink was 
> discussed and committed to by both Musk and the developers.   I figure I want 
> to get the h/w and play with it at a fixed location to understand setup time, 
> quality, limitations ( can you have another router, address space, etc. etc.. 
> ) before moving it to the RV.   I figured the list is going to get pretty 
> long and the h/w will change with expansion of production, evolution of the 
> service.  So being early will have advantages and disadvantages.   So final 
> usage in the RV is the goal but not initial need.
> 
> On 2/9/21 9:44 AM, David Sovereen via AF wrote:
> Robert,
>  
> I wanted was going to sign up to get Starlink for my RV but saw this on their 
> web site and decided to postpone until I learned more:
>  
> Can I travel with Starlink, or move it to a different address?
> Starlink satellites are scheduled to send internet down to all users within a 
> designated area on the ground. This designated area is referred to as a cell.
> Your Starlink is assigned to a single cell. If you move your Starlink outside 
> of its assigned cell, a satellite will not be scheduled to serve your 
> Starlink and you will not receive internet. This is constrained by geometry 
> and is not arbitrary geofencing.
> Please let us know how traveling with it works out for you.  If it does 
> travel well, I want it!
>  
> Thanks,
>  
> Dave
>  
> David Sovereen
>  
> Mercury Network Corporation
> 2719 Ashman Street, Midland, MI 48640
> 989.837.3790 x151 office | 888.866.4638 toll free | 989.837.3780 fax
>  
> Telephone  |  Internet  |  Hosting
>  
> david.sover...@mercury.net
> www.mercury.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Feb 9, 2021, at 12:37 PM, i...@avantwireless.com wrote:
>  
> I see that Musk is, a) testing demand, b) raising a chunk of Starlink 
> specific cash ( no strings attached ), c) figuring out where the next 
> orbits/ground stations need to be.  d) understanding usage and limitations.   
> All very valid reasons to open up general sales.   I threw $100 at it to get 
> on the list for one that I will use with the RV in the future and to test the 
> reality of the service.   It should be interesting to watch performance 
> change with the addition of infrastructure vs. customers.
> 
> On 2/9/21 8:46 AM, David Coudron wrote:
> I ordered a Starlink system as my cabin is in an area that we can get service 
> right away from Starlink and we don’t service the area with our network.   
> Other locations in MN say it will be middle to late 2021 for service 
> availability.   I should have some first hand knowledge in a week or two.   
> As mentioned below, it is basically $600 to start and $99 a month.   Will be 
> interesting.
>  
> Regards,
>  
> David Coudron
>  
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Darin Steffl
> Sent: Tuesday, February 9, 2021 10:34 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink - First Blood
>  
> If he's truly surrounded by trees with no clear sky like the Starlink app 
> shows with their VR overlay, he will likely have a poor experience with it 
> and maybe come back.
>  
> We always tell people canceling what their average usage is because we use 
> Preseem and most people rarely average more than 10 Mbps unless they're doing 
> a download. 
>  
> So someone on our 25 Mbps plan will peak and hit that but t

[AFMUG] Starlink - First Blood

[Matt Hoppes]

Got our first "Starlink" call today.  Guy who's been a long term 
customer - paying $90 for 50 megabits -- and getting that.


Says "I'd rather give my money to a local company than to Musk, but 
those speeds.  Any chance you'll be offering faster speeds?".


My only response was - if you truly need 150 megabits at your home, then 
Starlink is probably a better option for you.  We've found that 99% of 
our customers barely use 25 megabits, which is why our top plan is 50 
megabits.


"OK, well I just wanted to try to give money locally".

I appreciate that, but if you'd like to pay $9 more per month, plus a 
$600 install fee, to get the same speeds you're getting with us with the 
occasional faster speeds, and drops with every satellite switch, be my 
guest.


This guy's house is also completely surrounded by trees.  I'm curious to 
see how this will play out.


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Starlink now available on the S.F. Peninsula

[Matt Hoppes]

That’s actually a good point. We’ve dropped from gigabit to 600meg to 200 meg 
to 50 meg with only 10,000 customers. 

> On Feb 8, 2021, at 8:06 PM, Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
> 
> How much per month?
> 
> -Original Message- From: Bill Prince
> Sent: Monday, February 8, 2021 5:17 PM
> To: AFMUG
> Subject: [AFMUG] OT: Starlink now available on the S.F. Peninsula
> 
> ... and probably the whole bay area now (~~ 37° latitude).
> 
> I had signed up for Starlink internet service. I got a notice this
> afternoon that it is available at our home address for beta-level
> service. Speed & latency will be variable, and there will "brief"
> intervals of no service.
> 
> But the prices they had announced has an interesting "*" to it. The $499
> equipment fee does not include shipping and handling (another $50), plus
> another $49 and change for tax. So instead of paying $499, it's more
> like $599. All due before they will process the order.
> 
> 
> -- 
> bp
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Starlink now available on the S.F. Peninsula

[Matt Hoppes]

Yeah. Odd I can get it at our office in a city of 40,000 but not my home in the 
middle of nowhere 30 miles away. 

Also speeds have slowly eroded from gigabit to 50 megabits. 

I suspect this is much ado about nothing. It will relieve customers who can’t 
get something but shouldn’t be a major concern. 

> On Feb 8, 2021, at 7:17 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
> 
> ... and probably the whole bay area now (~~ 37° latitude).
> 
> I had signed up for Starlink internet service. I got a notice this afternoon 
> that it is available at our home address for beta-level service. Speed & 
> latency will be variable, and there will "brief" intervals of no service.
> 
> But the prices they had announced has an interesting "*" to it. The $499 
> equipment fee does not include shipping and handling (another $50), plus 
> another $49 and change for tax. So instead of paying $499, it's more like 
> $599. All due before they will process the order.
> 
> 
> -- 
> bp
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Expensive Cambium parts

[Matt Hoppes]

What issues do you have with them?  Been using them since 2009 heavily without 
issue. 

> On Feb 1, 2021, at 10:44 PM, Steve Jones  wrote:
> 
> 
> as much as the contact points in the SS cards
> 
>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2021 at 9:23 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>> I always imagined that the bloody ends of the wires would corrode.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
 On Feb 1, 2021, at 7:49 PM, Mathew Howard  wrote:
 
>>> 
>>> I tried switching to the EZ connectors a few times... I honestly don't like 
>>> them. It always seemed to me like they caused more problems than they 
>>> solved. 
>>> 
 On Mon, Feb 1, 2021, 8:09 PM Jason McKemie 
  wrote:
 I stopped using them years ago since I always had issues getting the 
 connectors to properly snap into Canopy SMs, plus after you terminate 
 enough of them it really isn't any easier. I'm still using the crimpers 
 about 15 years later though.
 
> On Monday, February 1, 2021, SmarterBroadband  wrote:
> We have been using EZ Crimps for 10 plus years now, would not think of 
> using anything else.
> 
> Adam
> 
>  
> 
> From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Forrest Christian 
> (List Account)
> Sent: Monday, February 1, 2021 2:59 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Expensive Cambium parts
> 
>  
> 
> I agree with the ratchet part - I think it's because the ratchet helps 
> tell when you've crimped enough and not too much.  They also seem to have 
> a bit better leverage for some reason, although I have a feeling that 
> that's not really true since I don't see how this would be the case.
> 
>  
> 
> I have done my fair share of terminations without a ratcheting tool.   I 
> will agree that good quality ends are more important.I also remember 
> that finally realizing (years ago) that I could actually look at the 
> wires in the connector before crimping to determine whether they were all 
> the way in solved almost all of my problems..
> 
>  
> 
> Nowadays, I have far more problems with trimming the wires too long or 
> too short.  If I was an installer and did this every day I'd probably not 
> have that problem.  I've been tempted to move to the EZ rj45's which you 
> push the wire all the way through and then the crimp tool cuts the ends 
> off, but for as few as I personally do a year anymore I haven't been able 
> to justify switching.   
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> On Mon, Feb 1, 2021 at 2:51 PM Nate Burke  wrote:
> 
> One of my installers says that if they don't ratchet, they're no good.  
> I've been using the cheap Monoprice crimpers without a problem. I think 
> good quality ends are more important.  It's been a couple years since 
> I've bought ends though.   (I bought a bunch)
> 
> On 2/1/2021 3:38 PM, Carl Peterson wrote:
> 
> What crimpers are connectors are en vogue these days.  As tech-proof as 
> possible.  We seem to go through phases where we end up with a lot of 
> ethernet cable related performance issues / service calls.  
> 
>  
> 
> On Mon, Feb 1, 2021 at 3:35 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
> 
> I would want more than that for that kind of price.
> 
> I would want to be able to leave the connectors and cable in the room; 
> walk out, and walk back in a few minutes later with the ends all crimped 
> with heat shrink, and Velcro ties holding the new cables in a nice, neat 
> loop.
> 
>  
> 
> bp
> 
> On 2/1/2021 11:45 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
> 
> Just came across these.  For that price I better be able to just shove a 
> bare Cat5 in one side, and have a heat shrinked end come out the other.  
> Or is there something else super special about these crimpers.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> --
> 
> Carl Peterson
> 
> PORT NETWORKS
> 
> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553
> 
> Baltimore, MD 21202
> 
> (410) 637-3707 
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> --
> 
> - Forrest
> 
 -- 
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> -- 
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailma

Re: [AFMUG] Adobe Notice

[Matt Hoppes]

How do they know this?  That's normally something you get from a LAN 
network, not a WAN.


On 1/28/21 5:53 PM, Jason McKemie wrote:
I've gotten a couple of emails from Adobe about Non-Genuine software on 
my network. What do you guys typically do with this stuff? Just forward 
it to the user who's IP address they're giving me?




--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] cnMaestro x Trial

[Matt Hoppes]

Right.. it's the hover icons that are driving me crazy.

On 1/28/21 2:28 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
I like the new look, not a fan of changing icons that dont have 
hovertips, but overall it looks pretty clean


As i understand it when all the trials expire out the X will go away and 
youll revert


On Thu, Jan 28, 2021 at 1:25 PM Matt Hoppes 
<mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote:


Just logged into my infrastructure account and. ick looks like
someone is trying to make it look like BaiCells -- at least they're on
the road to that.

That being said, how do I disable the Trial and go back to the normal
cnMaestro account?

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

[AFMUG] cnMaestro x Trial

[Matt Hoppes]

Just logged into my infrastructure account and. ick looks like 
someone is trying to make it look like BaiCells -- at least they're on 
the road to that.


That being said, how do I disable the Trial and go back to the normal 
cnMaestro account?


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Ot: gamestop

[Matt Hoppes]

I shorted yesterday... then sold at the end of the day because I was 
worried about not being able to sell today or Friday (because of exactly 
what's going on).  Should have held I guess...


On 1/28/21 2:16 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
I just realize too, someone probably probably shorted at $300 and is 
making bank.   Price has gone from over $400 to $232 and still falling...


On 01/28/2021 11:01 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
No.  nothing illegal about meeting on a street corner and saying "hey 
cool stock, here's the scoop, consider buying it".


On 1/28/21 1:45 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

So did these redditors break any law?

I assume it is them who will be targeted for enforcement

On Thu, Jan 28, 2021, 12:39 PM Matt Hoppes 
<mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote:


    Exactly the only one who makes out is the Shorter IF the 
stock goes

    down.  If it goes up the shorter is massively in trouble.

    now rinse and repeat this several times WITH THE SAME BLOCKS and you
    have how we got to 140% shorted.

    On 1/28/21 1:36 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
 > i.e. Caleb wants to screw _both_ Nathan and Jason ( who both 
used to

 > have $10 blocks )   Shorting is like playing the No Pass side in
    Craps..
     >
 > On 01/28/2021 10:23 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >> Here’s a quick examination of what’s going on.
 >>
 >>> On Jan 28, 2021, at 12:31 PM, David Coudron
 >>> mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com>> wrote:
 >>>
 >>> 
 >>>
 >>> My wife has been following this, so I am relating second hand
 >>> information.   This is the way I understand it.
 >>>
 >>> A hedge fund guy has been bashing game stop for some time.  
Says

 >>> business is outdated.   Terrible stock, etc.   Turns out the
    his fund
 >>> owned a bunch of it and had been betting on it going down and
    short
 >>> sold it.   Gamers got pissed about bashing game stop and
    organized a
 >>> buy of a bunch of stock.   Stock price went way up, and now the
    hedge
 >>> fund who had short sold it, had to buy back at high prices. 
Lost

 >>> $10 Billion last time she looked.   They stepped in to keep the
    hedge
 >>> fund from collapsing.
 >>>
 >>> That is what I understand anyway.
 >>>
 >>> Regards,
 >>>
 >>> David Coudron
 >>>
 >>> *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of * Steve Jones
 >>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 28, 2021 11:26 AM
 >>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
 >>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Ot: gamestop
 >>>
 >>> Can someone break this down for me to a window licker level of
    dumb?
 >>>
 >>> If i understand it, hedgefund operators banked on the price 
going

 >>> down, so shit posters rallied together to drive it up, and on
    friday
 >>> the hedgefund operators are forced to purchase at the inflated
    price?
 >>> Is this the gist?
 >>>
 >>> Now government is trying to step in to protect the 
hedgefunds from

 >>> the shitposters?
 >>>
 >>> --
 >>> AF mailing list
 >>> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
 >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
 >>
 >>
 >

    -- AF mailing list
    AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
    http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com








--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Ot: gamestop

[Matt Hoppes]

No.  nothing illegal about meeting on a street corner and saying "hey 
cool stock, here's the scoop, consider buying it".


On 1/28/21 1:45 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

So did these redditors break any law?

I assume it is them who will be targeted for enforcement

On Thu, Jan 28, 2021, 12:39 PM Matt Hoppes 
<mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote:


Exactly the only one who makes out is the Shorter IF the stock goes
down.  If it goes up the shorter is massively in trouble.

now rinse and repeat this several times WITH THE SAME BLOCKS and you
have how we got to 140% shorted.

On 1/28/21 1:36 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
 > i.e. Caleb wants to screw _both_ Nathan and Jason ( who both used to
 > have $10 blocks )   Shorting is like playing the No Pass side in
Craps..
 >
     > On 01/28/2021 10:23 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >> Here’s a quick examination of what’s going on.
 >>
 >>> On Jan 28, 2021, at 12:31 PM, David Coudron
 >>> mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com>> wrote:
 >>>
 >>> 
 >>>
 >>> My wife has been following this, so I am relating second hand
 >>> information.   This is the way I understand it.
 >>>
 >>> A hedge fund guy has been bashing game stop for some time.  Says
 >>> business is outdated.   Terrible stock, etc.   Turns out the
his fund
 >>> owned a bunch of it and had been betting on it going down and
short
 >>> sold it.   Gamers got pissed about bashing game stop and
organized a
 >>> buy of a bunch of stock.   Stock price went way up, and now the
hedge
 >>> fund who had short sold it, had to buy back at high prices.   Lost
 >>> $10 Billion last time she looked.   They stepped in to keep the
hedge
 >>> fund from collapsing.
 >>>
 >>> That is what I understand anyway.
 >>>
 >>> Regards,
 >>>
 >>> David Coudron
 >>>
 >>> *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of * Steve Jones
 >>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 28, 2021 11:26 AM
 >>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
 >>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Ot: gamestop
 >>>
 >>> Can someone break this down for me to a window licker level of
dumb?
 >>>
 >>> If i understand it, hedgefund operators banked on the price going
 >>> down, so shit posters rallied together to drive it up, and on
friday
 >>> the hedgefund operators are forced to purchase at the inflated
price?
 >>> Is this the gist?
 >>>
 >>> Now government is trying to step in to protect the hedgefunds from
 >>> the shitposters?
 >>>
 >>> --
 >>> AF mailing list
 >>> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
 >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
 >>
 >>
 >

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Ot: gamestop

[Matt Hoppes]

Correct. They borrowed. Sold. Borrowed from whom they sold to “hey. I’ll pay 
you 40% if I can borrow these for a month”. 

Then. Things got real and there wasn’t enough to cover the blocks. 

Thus. Shorted. 

> On Jan 28, 2021, at 1:42 PM, Robert Andrews  wrote:
> 
> Thanks, now I understand the 140% position..   Hedge fund went to who they 
> sold the blocks to and borrowed from _Them_...   Alice down the rabbit hole.  
>   I'm betting drugs were involved...
> 
>> On 01/28/2021 10:38 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>> Exactly the only one who makes out is the Shorter IF the stock goes 
>> down.  If it goes up the shorter is massively in trouble.
>> now rinse and repeat this several times WITH THE SAME BLOCKS and you have 
>> how we got to 140% shorted.
>>> On 1/28/21 1:36 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
>>> i.e. Caleb wants to screw _both_ Nathan and Jason ( who both used to have 
>>> $10 blocks )   Shorting is like playing the No Pass side in Craps..
>>> 
>>> On 01/28/2021 10:23 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Here’s a quick examination of what’s going on.
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 28, 2021, at 12:31 PM, David Coudron 
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> My wife has been following this, so I am relating second hand 
>>>>> information.   This is the way I understand it.
>>>>> 
>>>>> A hedge fund guy has been bashing game stop for some time.  Says business 
>>>>> is outdated.   Terrible stock, etc.   Turns out the his fund owned a 
>>>>> bunch of it and had been betting on it going down and short sold it.   
>>>>> Gamers got pissed about bashing game stop and organized a buy of a bunch 
>>>>> of stock.   Stock price went way up, and now the hedge fund who had short 
>>>>> sold it, had to buy back at high prices.   Lost $10 Billion last time she 
>>>>> looked.   They stepped in to keep the hedge fund from collapsing.
>>>>> 
>>>>> That is what I understand anyway.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> 
>>>>> David Coudron
>>>>> 
>>>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Steve Jones
>>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 28, 2021 11:26 AM
>>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Ot: gamestop
>>>>> 
>>>>> Can someone break this down for me to a window licker level of dumb?
>>>>> 
>>>>> If i understand it, hedgefund operators banked on the price going down, 
>>>>> so shit posters rallied together to drive it up, and on friday the 
>>>>> hedgefund operators are forced to purchase at the inflated price? Is this 
>>>>> the gist?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Now government is trying to step in to protect the hedgefunds from the 
>>>>> shitposters?
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> AF mailing list
>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Ot: gamestop

[Matt Hoppes]

Exactly the only one who makes out is the Shorter IF the stock goes 
down.  If it goes up the shorter is massively in trouble.


now rinse and repeat this several times WITH THE SAME BLOCKS and you 
have how we got to 140% shorted.


On 1/28/21 1:36 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
i.e. Caleb wants to screw _both_ Nathan and Jason ( who both used to 
have $10 blocks )   Shorting is like playing the No Pass side in Craps..


On 01/28/2021 10:23 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:




Here’s a quick examination of what’s going on.

On Jan 28, 2021, at 12:31 PM, David Coudron 
 wrote:




My wife has been following this, so I am relating second hand 
information.   This is the way I understand it.


A hedge fund guy has been bashing game stop for some time.  Says 
business is outdated.   Terrible stock, etc.   Turns out the his fund 
owned a bunch of it and had been betting on it going down and short 
sold it.   Gamers got pissed about bashing game stop and organized a 
buy of a bunch of stock.   Stock price went way up, and now the hedge 
fund who had short sold it, had to buy back at high prices.   Lost 
$10 Billion last time she looked.   They stepped in to keep the hedge 
fund from collapsing.


That is what I understand anyway.

Regards,

David Coudron

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Steve Jones
*Sent:* Thursday, January 28, 2021 11:26 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Ot: gamestop

Can someone break this down for me to a window licker level of dumb?

If i understand it, hedgefund operators banked on the price going 
down, so shit posters rallied together to drive it up, and on friday 
the hedgefund operators are forced to purchase at the inflated price? 
Is this the gist?


Now government is trying to step in to protect the hedgefunds from 
the shitposters?


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com







--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Ot: gamestop

[Matt Hoppes]

I'm not sure the video sent to the mailing list.

Here's in 2 minute explanation of what's going on:

https://www.facebook.com/13364160056/videos/3478129638975807/

On 1/28/21 1:31 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
Yep, and hedge returns to investors are the least taxed income you can 
have.   Gee,  follow the $$?


On 01/28/2021 10:21 AM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:

Man I love this.

Dumbass greedy hedge fund A holes that literally think they drive the 
markets (and do usually), get massively screwed by the populace that's 
had enough of their controlling behavior.


It's a free market, and they bet big and lost. That's how it works.

I can only hope that the gov doesn't somehow bail them out.
I'm not a socialist and not a democrat and not a Bernie etc etc, but I 
do believe funds like this have too much control and also hoard a lot 
of the nations wealth among a handful of privileged people.





-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Robert Andrews
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2021 11:13 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ot: gamestop

About right & add a couple of numbers.   Stock was at $20, hedge funds
were trying to drive it to $10 by throwing shade.   Shorts have to be
covered at certain risk points.   Reddit'ers in a market bet group saw
that the hedges had shorted it by ( get this ) 130% of released stock!!!
   ( how they can borrow more than 100% is apparently allowed in futures
(bad))..   Redditors drove it to $147/share and the hedge funds and one
in particular were $137 BILLION in the red.   The one that was going BK
borrowed $76 Billion to cover from another hedge and briefly sent it 
back down _for a couple of hours_ till the redditors dug in again. (

they know that the short _has_ to be covered.   Then it got serious.
Musk and some other really rich people who have been burned by hedge 
funds doing this to them ( Telsa stock had been depressed for years by 
this ) decided that it was time for the chicken to come home to roost.

They decided to throw $$ at it that they don't really worry about.
What's 10 million to Musk?   Today I saw it trading briefly at $390.
Wall Street is rallying behind the hedges and calling in all the favors
due.  PR, Congress, investors like public retirements, etc.   They are
going to push for legislation.  Truly a screw you between two groups.

I'm warming up the popcorn...

Best comment I've seen from the Hedge fund CEO.   I've lost my company,
my house, my cars, my boat, my wife, how could you do this for "fun"

Responses were hilarious...   Like, "Didn't you put any away for a rainy
day?"



On 01/28/2021 09:31 AM, David Coudron wrote:

My wife has been following this, so I am relating second hand
information.   This is the way I understand it.

A hedge fund guy has been bashing game stop for some time.  Says
business is outdated.   Terrible stock, etc.   Turns out the his fund
owned a bunch of it and had been betting on it going down and short sold
it.   Gamers got pissed about bashing game stop and organized a buy of a
bunch of stock.   Stock price went way up, and now the hedge fund who
had short sold it, had to buy back at high prices.   Lost $10 Billion
last time she looked.   They stepped in to keep the hedge fund from
collapsing.

That is what I understand anyway.

Regards,

David Coudron

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Steve Jones
*Sent:* Thursday, January 28, 2021 11:26 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Ot: gamestop

Can someone break this down for me to a window licker level of dumb?

If i understand it, hedgefund operators banked on the price going
down, so shit posters rallied together to drive it up, and on friday
the hedgefund operators are forced to purchase at the inflated price?
Is this the gist?

Now government is trying to step in to protect the hedgefunds from the
shitposters?





--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com





--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Ot: gamestop

[Matt Hoppes]

There are going to be class action lawsuits and SEC fines from this. 
Robinhood (at least) and possibly others are now manipulating the 
markets illegally.


On 1/28/21 12:32 PM, Cassidy B. Larson wrote:
What blows my mind is trading platforms like Robinhood that are 
restricting what purchases you can do.
I decided to throw in $100 on some of those volatile stocks late last 
night, and it got cancelled this morning.


On Jan 28, 2021, at 10:29 AM, Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] 
mailto:j...@brazoswifi.com>> wrote:


That’s the gist of it.
Jim Bouse
Owner - Brazos WiFi
979-985-5912
http://www.brazoswifi.com 
*From:*AF >*On Behalf Of*Steve Jones

*Sent:*Thursday, January 28, 2021 11:26 AM
*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >

*Subject:*[AFMUG] Ot: gamestop
Can someone break this down for me to a window licker level of dumb?
If i understand it, hedgefund operators banked on the price going 
down, so shit posters rallied together to drive it up, and on friday 
the hedgefund operators are forced to purchase at the inflated price? 
Is this the gist?
Now government is trying to step in to protect the hedgefunds from the 
shitposters?

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com





--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Today's poor kids and streaming video

[Matt Hoppes]

People stream?

My homeowners insurance just denied covering our VHS/DVD/TV combo which damaged 
in a power surge due to it being an antique. :(

> On Jan 24, 2021, at 5:55 PM, Nate Burke  wrote:
> 
> Am I the only one that's annoyed when you pause a video stream, they dim the 
> screen and pop up other information.  How are you supposed to pause for the 
> juicy bits?  And what about stepping through a scene frame by frame?  Today's 
> poor kids probably have no concept of stepping through frame by frame.I 
> mean at least the 2000's kids could pause the clear frame on the DVD and not 
> having all the VHS tracking lines on the screen like I grew up with.
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

[AFMUG] Verizon GUDP

[Matt Hoppes]

I have 3 Verizon grandfathered unlimited data plans. 

We are only using 1. 

Anyone here interested in one before I cancel them?

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] DDOS on cgnat

[Matt Hoppes]

That's what I've done... stops it in about 1 minute, but at the expense 
of traffic flowing.


On 1/20/21 8:36 PM, Zach Underwood wrote:
In that case you really only have one option announce a black hole to 
your upstreams and complete the ddos attack.


On Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 8:20 PM Matt Hoppes 
<mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote:


In this case they overwhelmed our circuit... and it was destined to the
CGNAT box NAT IP.

On 1/20/21 7:39 PM, Zach Underwood wrote:
 > If you have enough to bring the good and attack traffic into your
 > network the arbor boxes can filter out all of the attack traffic
allow
 > the ip and it's traffic to stay online.
 >
 > On Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 7:28 PM Chuck McCown via AF
mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
 > <mailto:af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>> wrote:
 >
 >     What does that do?
 >
 >     Sent from my iPhone
 >
 >>     On Jan 20, 2021, at 5:04 PM, Zach Underwood
mailto:zunder1...@gmail.com>
 >>     <mailto:zunder1...@gmail.com <mailto:zunder1...@gmail.com>>>
wrote:
 >>
 >>     
 >>     If you have bandwidth send all of the traffic into an arbor
box. I
 >>     have seen them do some amazing things.
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >>     Disclaimer I use to for work for arbor/netscout but I am no
longer
 >>     there.
 >>
 >>     On Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 6:56 PM Matt Hoppes
 >>     mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>
 >>     <mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net
<mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>>> wrote:
 >>
 >>         Any ideas how to mitigate DDOS attacks when you’re on CGNAT
 >>         with maybe 100 people behind one IP concentrator?
 >>         --
 >>         AF mailing list
 >> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com
<mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>>
 >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
 >>
 >>     --
 >>     AF mailing list
 >> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com
<mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>>
 >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
 >     --
 >     AF mailing list
 > AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com
<mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>>
 > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
 >
 >



--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] DDOS on cgnat

[Matt Hoppes]

In this case they overwhelmed our circuit... and it was destined to the 
CGNAT box NAT IP.


On 1/20/21 7:39 PM, Zach Underwood wrote:
If you have enough to bring the good and attack traffic into your 
network the arbor boxes can filter out all of the attack traffic allow 
the ip and it's traffic to stay online.


On Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 7:28 PM Chuck McCown via AF <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> wrote:


What does that do?

Sent from my iPhone


On Jan 20, 2021, at 5:04 PM, Zach Underwood mailto:zunder1...@gmail.com>> wrote:


If you have bandwidth send all of the traffic into an arbor box. I
have seen them do some amazing things.



Disclaimer I use to for work for arbor/netscout but I am no longer
there.

On Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 6:56 PM Matt Hoppes
mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote:

Any ideas how to mitigate DDOS attacks when you’re on CGNAT
with maybe 100 people behind one IP concentrator?
-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

[AFMUG] DDOS on cgnat

[Matt Hoppes]

Any ideas how to mitigate DDOS attacks when you’re on CGNAT with maybe 100 
people behind one IP concentrator?
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Quantum internet signals beamed between drones a kilometre apart | New Scientist

[Matt Hoppes]

Not totally tracking on this.

The photon is beamed between the two drones, so the drones require line 
of sight and a laser.   I get that these photos are entangled, but why 
not just use the laser to transmit?


Until we can have a "box of photons" sitting in a data center and a "box 
of photons" sitting at a remote location and beam data - I don't see the 
point.


On 1/17/21 1:45 AM, Steve Jones wrote:

That guy sees it feasible for a drone following each person around?


On Sat, Jan 16, 2021, 8:41 PM Jaime Solorza > wrote:


"Quantum internet signals beamed between drones a kilometre apart |
New Scientist"

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2264957-quantum-internet-signals-beamed-between-drones-a-kilometre-apart/amp/

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Hiring a company fund manager

[Matt Hoppes]

Yup. 

> On Jan 12, 2021, at 3:56 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Let's just assume you had $250K to park in low-cost stock market index funds 
> and had 20 years to just let it sit there.  
> 
> Let's assume that the stock market return is around 10%/year like has been 
> typical.  
> 
> In 20 years, you would have just under $1.7 million.   And, on average would 
> be returning 170K per year.   This is assuming you just planted it in an 
> index fund and didn't touch it, or add to it, or anything else.   
> 
> 
>> On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 6:57 PM Matt Hoppes 
>>  wrote:
>> My goal someday is to get to the point that I can live off investments. But 
>> even then I still want to do “something”. 
>> 
>> I see money as a necessary evil to live. But I don’t live for money. 
>> 
>>>> On Jan 11, 2021, at 8:55 PM, Matt Hoppes 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> Correct assumption. 
>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 11, 2021, at 8:42 PM, Ryan Ray  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I'm just going to assume Matt doesn't have 10mil to throw to someone to 
>>>> day trade. You can make 1000 a day pretty easily right now, but be aware 
>>>> of what is happening in the markets.
>>>> 
>>>>> On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 12:28 PM Mathew Howard  
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Well, that depends, if you're playing with ten million or so, it probably 
>>>>> is
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 1:37 PM Ryan Ray  wrote:
>>>>>> I think we all know that $1000 per day isn't sustainable.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 11:23 AM Cameron Crum  
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> I'd say if any money manager plays with your money as often as you do, 
>>>>>>> he either has very few clients, doesn't really know what he is doing, 
>>>>>>> or is a crook. No good money manager will move your money around that 
>>>>>>> much unless they are trying to create fees for themselves. It is just 
>>>>>>> too risky and requires too much attention. If you can make 1000 a day, 
>>>>>>> I would ask, why are you doing anything else? That is at least 
>>>>>>> 22k/month with little overhead but the electricity to run a computer. 
>>>>>>> Compounded, that is a pretty nice salary with very little effort. If I 
>>>>>>> could make 1000/day every day with no overhead, I wouldn't be doing 
>>>>>>> anything but that. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 1:12 PM Steve Jones 
>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>> I got my IRA report and had 17 percent return last year. You can put 
>>>>>>>> your money in my ira if you want
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 1:09 PM Gino A. Villarini  
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Bitcoin?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Gino Villarini 
>>>>>>>>> Founder/President
>>>>>>>>> @gvillarini
>>>>>>>>> t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>   
>>>>>>>>> www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968
>>>>>>>>> From: AF 
>>>>>>>>> Date: Monday, January 11, 2021 at 11:56 AM
>>>>>>>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [AFMUG] Hiring a company fund manager
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> We have a sizeable amount of money sitting in a bank account right. 
>>>>>>>>> This 
>>>>>>>>> has been collected from various jobs that were rather ludicrous over 
>>>>>>>>> the 
>>>>>>>>> past year.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> There are several options for what we can do with these funds we 
>>>>>>>>> can 
>>>>>>>>> let them sit in a bank account until we need th

Re: [AFMUG] Hiring a company fund manager

[Matt Hoppes]

My goal someday is to get to the point that I can live off investments. But 
even then I still want to do “something”. 

I see money as a necessary evil to live. But I don’t live for money. 

> On Jan 11, 2021, at 8:55 PM, Matt Hoppes  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> Correct assumption. 
> 
>>> On Jan 11, 2021, at 8:42 PM, Ryan Ray  wrote:
>>> 
>> 
>> I'm just going to assume Matt doesn't have 10mil to throw to someone to day 
>> trade. You can make 1000 a day pretty easily right now, but be aware of what 
>> is happening in the markets.
>> 
>>> On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 12:28 PM Mathew Howard  wrote:
>>> Well, that depends, if you're playing with ten million or so, it probably is
>>> 
>>>> On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 1:37 PM Ryan Ray  wrote:
>>>> I think we all know that $1000 per day isn't sustainable.
>>>> 
>>>>> On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 11:23 AM Cameron Crum  wrote:
>>>>> I'd say if any money manager plays with your money as often as you do, he 
>>>>> either has very few clients, doesn't really know what he is doing, or is 
>>>>> a crook. No good money manager will move your money around that much 
>>>>> unless they are trying to create fees for themselves. It is just too 
>>>>> risky and requires too much attention. If you can make 1000 a day, I 
>>>>> would ask, why are you doing anything else? That is at least 22k/month 
>>>>> with little overhead but the electricity to run a computer. Compounded, 
>>>>> that is a pretty nice salary with very little effort. If I could make 
>>>>> 1000/day every day with no overhead, I wouldn't be doing anything but 
>>>>> that. 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 1:12 PM Steve Jones  
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> I got my IRA report and had 17 percent return last year. You can put 
>>>>>> your money in my ira if you want
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 1:09 PM Gino A. Villarini  
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Bitcoin?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Gino Villarini 
>>>>>>> Founder/President
>>>>>>> @gvillarini
>>>>>>> t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968
>>>>>>> From: AF 
>>>>>>> Date: Monday, January 11, 2021 at 11:56 AM
>>>>>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>>>>>> Subject: [AFMUG] Hiring a company fund manager
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> We have a sizeable amount of money sitting in a bank account right. 
>>>>>>> This 
>>>>>>> has been collected from various jobs that were rather ludicrous over 
>>>>>>> the 
>>>>>>> past year.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> There are several options for what we can do with these funds we 
>>>>>>> can 
>>>>>>> let them sit in a bank account until we need them and use them, and 
>>>>>>> then 
>>>>>>> go away.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Or we can invest them (which I've started doing). However, this is one 
>>>>>>> more thing to add to my plate of things to manage on a daily/weekly 
>>>>>>> basis.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Through investing in ETFs and purchasing Option Call/Puts I've been 
>>>>>>> able 
>>>>>>> to return about $1,000/day. This isn't consistent - but over a week a 
>>>>>>> gain of several thousand is not out of the question. Even on a market 
>>>>>>> red day like today, our portfolio is up.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> My question is, has anyone here either done it, or considered hiring a 
>>>>>>> full-time person to essentially manage surplus cash and make it print 
>>>>>>> more cash through investing? If done right, I feel like this could 
>>>>>>> potentially finance a lot of future projects we want to build. Of 
>>>>>>> course, hire the wrong person and you lose all that money...
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>> AF mailing list
>>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>> AF mailing list
>>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> AF mailing list
>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> AF mailing list
>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>> -- 
>>>> AF mailing list
>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> -- 
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Hiring a company fund manager

[Matt Hoppes]

Correct assumption. 

> On Jan 11, 2021, at 8:42 PM, Ryan Ray  wrote:
> 
> 
> I'm just going to assume Matt doesn't have 10mil to throw to someone to day 
> trade. You can make 1000 a day pretty easily right now, but be aware of what 
> is happening in the markets.
> 
>> On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 12:28 PM Mathew Howard  wrote:
>> Well, that depends, if you're playing with ten million or so, it probably is
>> 
>>> On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 1:37 PM Ryan Ray  wrote:
>>> I think we all know that $1000 per day isn't sustainable.
>>> 
 On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 11:23 AM Cameron Crum  wrote:
 I'd say if any money manager plays with your money as often as you do, he 
 either has very few clients, doesn't really know what he is doing, or is a 
 crook. No good money manager will move your money around that much unless 
 they are trying to create fees for themselves. It is just too risky and 
 requires too much attention. If you can make 1000 a day, I would ask, why 
 are you doing anything else? That is at least 22k/month with little 
 overhead but the electricity to run a computer. Compounded, that is a 
 pretty nice salary with very little effort. If I could make 1000/day every 
 day with no overhead, I wouldn't be doing anything but that. 
 
> On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 1:12 PM Steve Jones  
> wrote:
> I got my IRA report and had 17 percent return last year. You can put your 
> money in my ira if you want
> 
>> On Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 1:09 PM Gino A. Villarini  
>> wrote:
>> Bitcoin?
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Gino Villarini 
>> Founder/President
>> @gvillarini
>> t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204 
>> 
>>  
>> www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968
>> From: AF 
>> Date: Monday, January 11, 2021 at 11:56 AM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Hiring a company fund manager
>> 
>> We have a sizeable amount of money sitting in a bank account right. This 
>> has been collected from various jobs that were rather ludicrous over the 
>> past year.
>> 
>> There are several options for what we can do with these funds we can 
>> let them sit in a bank account until we need them and use them, and then 
>> go away.
>> 
>> Or we can invest them (which I've started doing). However, this is one 
>> more thing to add to my plate of things to manage on a daily/weekly 
>> basis.
>> 
>> Through investing in ETFs and purchasing Option Call/Puts I've been able 
>> to return about $1,000/day. This isn't consistent - but over a week a 
>> gain of several thousand is not out of the question. Even on a market 
>> red day like today, our portfolio is up.
>> 
>> My question is, has anyone here either done it, or considered hiring a 
>> full-time person to essentially manage surplus cash and make it print 
>> more cash through investing? If done right, I feel like this could 
>> potentially finance a lot of future projects we want to build. Of 
>> course, hire the wrong person and you lose all that money...
>> 
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> 
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
 -- 
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> -- 
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Hiring a company fund manager

[Matt Hoppes]

And that is why people day trade for a living...

On 1/11/21 2:22 PM, Cameron Crum wrote:
I'd say if any money manager plays with your money as often as you do, 
he either has very few clients, doesn't really know what he is doing, or 
is a crook. No good money manager will move your money around that much 
unless they are trying to create fees for themselves. It is just too 
risky and requires too much attention. If you can make 1000 a day, I 
would ask, why are you doing anything else? That is at least 22k/month 
with little overhead but the electricity to run a computer. Compounded, 
that is a pretty nice salary with very little effort. If I could make 
1000/day every day with no overhead, I wouldn't be doing anything but that.


On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 1:12 PM Steve Jones > wrote:


I got my IRA report and had 17 percent return last year. You can put
your money in my ira if you want

On Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 1:09 PM Gino A. Villarini mailto:g...@aeronetpr.com>> wrote:

Bitcoin? 

__ __

*GinoVillarini
*Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204

aeronet-logo   inc500
 fb-logo
 insta-logo
  in-logo

tw-logo


yt-logo


www.aeronetpr.com  | Metro Office Park
#18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968

*From: *AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>>
*Date: *Monday, January 11, 2021 at 11:56 AM
*To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject: *[AFMUG] Hiring a company fund manager

We have a sizeable amount of money sitting in a bank account
right. This
has been collected from various jobs that were rather ludicrous
over the
past year.

There are several options for what we can do with these
funds we can
let them sit in a bank account until we need them and use them,
and then
go away.

Or we can invest them (which I've started doing). However, this
is one
more thing to add to my plate of things to manage on a
daily/weekly basis.

Through investing in ETFs and purchasing Option Call/Puts I've
been able
to return about $1,000/day. This isn't consistent - but over a
week a
gain of several thousand is not out of the question. Even on a
market
red day like today, our portfolio is up.

My question is, has anyone here either done it, or considered
hiring a
full-time person to essentially manage surplus cash and make it
print
more cash through investing? If done right, I feel like this could
potentially finance a lot of future projects we want to build. Of
course, hire the wrong person and you lose all that money...

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com