Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex

[Kurt Fankhauser]

i have a couple 3 mile AF24 links (non-hd) that have been up for 6
months never dropped once and we have had some decent rainstorms

On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 1:22 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> In this area, 24 GHz works reliably at 2 to 2-1/2 miles. We have several
> links at these distances for years now, and they just stay up. One of them
> faded out this year; not from rain, but when one end of the link had the
> radome covered with a couple inches of snow/ice. The snow/ice would have
> killed other frequencies as well. Thankfully, this doesn't happen very
> often; it's the first time it happened in over 5 years.
>
> We also, for some time, had a 24 GHz link at 9+ miles. It did fade, but
> was surprisingly reliable. I'm not advocating for such a link (and we
> replaced this one some time ago), but rain is widely variable in different
> regions. I would advise differently for someone in Illinois (for example).
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 2/26/2020 10:14 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:
>
> Anything that's more than ~1 mile is going to drop (at least occasionally,
> unless it never rains) with either 80ghz or 24ghz, and realistically, if a
> storm takes down an 80ghz link it's going to take down a 24ghz link to...
> it might only be down 5 minutes instead of 6 minutes, but it's still going
> to go down.
>
> If we ignore rain fade, then 80ghz actually should have significantly
> better range than 24ghz, because the allowed EIRP is so much higher.
>
> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 11:27 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> My recollection is that WISPs who have tried 24 GHz even at 2 miles have
>> been frustrated with the performance when it rains.  Maybe it depends on
>> your definition of moderate rain zone.
>>
>>
>>
>> I think part of the problem with rain fade is that it doesn’t get 6 dB
>> worse at twice the distance, it doubles (unless the link is long enough
>> that it never rains over the entire linke).
>>
>>
>>
>> So if you have 40 dB fades at 1 mile, you’ll have 80 dB fades at 2
>> miles.  You’re not going to make that up with xmt power or antenna size.
>>
>>
>>
>> But speaking of transmit power, that’s another problem at 24 GHz, the
>> regulatory EIRP limit is quite low.
>>
>>
>>
>> We tend to talk like it’s all about which equipment vendor is better.  Is
>> Ubiquiti better than Aviat?  But a lot of it is physics and regulatory.
>> And maybe climate change.  It reminds me of winter tires.  You can pay
>> twice as much, but the performance on ice might only be 10% better.
>> There’s only so much you can do vs. laws of physics.  And states outlawing
>> studded tires because they tear up the roads.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 26, 2020 11:12 AM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't think so. In moderate rain zones the AF24HD can go 2 miles, and
>> maybe some change. I'm not sure how far you can go on 80 GHz, but I'm
>> pretty sure it isn't that far.
>>
>>
>>
>> bp
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2/26/2020 9:08 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>
>> Is the range equivalent?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Kurt Fankhauser
>>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 26, 2020 9:59 AM
>>
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex
>>
>>
>>
>> for $5,000 the Aviat 80ghz solution is actually cheaper than AF24HD and
>> 10x the throughput!
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 10:36 AM Mathew Howard 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Good to know. That's an incredibly good deal... definitely what I'd go
>> with. You'll probably be paying at least that for a 1Gbps link from any of
>> the other manufacturers.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 9:20 AM Darin Steffl 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Yes I ran into the same thing with the web store showing a higher cost.
>>
>>
>>
>> Just reach out to Ken and he'll quote you the pricing I'm talking about.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020, 9:05 AM Josh Baird  wrote:
>>
>> It may be WISPA member pricing.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 10:02 AM Mathew Howard 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Is there some kind of special pricing or something? I logged into my
>> Aviat account, and it's looking more like $7k for a link to me.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:05 AM Josh Baird  wrote:

Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex

[Kurt Fankhauser]

in ohio BTW

On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 5:34 PM Kurt Fankhauser 
wrote:

> i have a couple 3 mile AF24 links (non-hd) that have been up for 6
> months never dropped once and we have had some decent rainstorms
>
> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 1:22 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>> In this area, 24 GHz works reliably at 2 to 2-1/2 miles. We have several
>> links at these distances for years now, and they just stay up. One of them
>> faded out this year; not from rain, but when one end of the link had the
>> radome covered with a couple inches of snow/ice. The snow/ice would have
>> killed other frequencies as well. Thankfully, this doesn't happen very
>> often; it's the first time it happened in over 5 years.
>>
>> We also, for some time, had a 24 GHz link at 9+ miles. It did fade, but
>> was surprisingly reliable. I'm not advocating for such a link (and we
>> replaced this one some time ago), but rain is widely variable in different
>> regions. I would advise differently for someone in Illinois (for example).
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 2/26/2020 10:14 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:
>>
>> Anything that's more than ~1 mile is going to drop (at least
>> occasionally, unless it never rains) with either 80ghz or 24ghz, and
>> realistically, if a storm takes down an 80ghz link it's going to take down
>> a 24ghz link to... it might only be down 5 minutes instead of 6 minutes,
>> but it's still going to go down.
>>
>> If we ignore rain fade, then 80ghz actually should have significantly
>> better range than 24ghz, because the allowed EIRP is so much higher.
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 11:27 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>>> My recollection is that WISPs who have tried 24 GHz even at 2 miles have
>>> been frustrated with the performance when it rains.  Maybe it depends on
>>> your definition of moderate rain zone.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I think part of the problem with rain fade is that it doesn’t get 6 dB
>>> worse at twice the distance, it doubles (unless the link is long enough
>>> that it never rains over the entire linke).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So if you have 40 dB fades at 1 mile, you’ll have 80 dB fades at 2
>>> miles.  You’re not going to make that up with xmt power or antenna size.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> But speaking of transmit power, that’s another problem at 24 GHz, the
>>> regulatory EIRP limit is quite low.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We tend to talk like it’s all about which equipment vendor is better.
>>> Is Ubiquiti better than Aviat?  But a lot of it is physics and regulatory.
>>> And maybe climate change.  It reminds me of winter tires.  You can pay
>>> twice as much, but the performance on ice might only be 10% better.
>>> There’s only so much you can do vs. laws of physics.  And states outlawing
>>> studded tires because they tear up the roads.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 26, 2020 11:12 AM
>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't think so. In moderate rain zones the AF24HD can go 2 miles, and
>>> maybe some change. I'm not sure how far you can go on 80 GHz, but I'm
>>> pretty sure it isn't that far.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/26/2020 9:08 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>>
>>> Is the range equivalent?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Kurt Fankhauser
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 26, 2020 9:59 AM
>>>
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> for $5,000 the Aviat 80ghz solution is actually cheaper than AF24HD and
>>> 10x the throughput!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 10:36 AM Mathew Howard 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Good to know. That's an incredibly good deal... definitely what I'd go
>>> with. You'll probably be paying at least that for a 1Gbps link from any of
>>> the other manufacturers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 9:20 AM Darin Steffl 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes I ran into the same thing with the web store showing a higher cost.
>>>
>>>
>&g

Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex

[Bill Prince]

  
  
In this area, 24 GHz works reliably at 2 to 2-1/2 miles. We have
  several links at these distances for years now, and they just stay
  up. One of them faded out this year; not from rain, but when one
  end of the link had the radome covered with a couple inches of
  snow/ice. The snow/ice would have killed other frequencies as
  well. Thankfully, this doesn't happen very often; it's the first
  time it happened in over 5 years.

We also, for some time, had a 24 GHz link at 9+ miles. It did
  fade, but was surprisingly reliable. I'm not advocating for such a
  link (and we replaced this one some time ago), but rain is widely
  variable in different regions. I would advise differently for
  someone in Illinois (for example).

bp



On 2/26/2020 10:14 AM, Mathew Howard
  wrote:


  
  
Anything that's more than ~1 mile is going to drop (at
  least occasionally, unless it never rains) with either 80ghz
  or 24ghz, and realistically, if a storm takes down an 80ghz
  link it's going to take down a 24ghz link to... it might only
  be down 5 minutes instead of 6 minutes, but it's still going
  to go down. 



If we ignore rain fade, then 80ghz actually should have
  significantly better range than 24ghz, because the allowed
  EIRP is so much higher.

  
  
  
On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 11:27
  AM Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:


  

  My recollection is that WISPs who
have tried 24 GHz even at 2 miles have been frustrated
with the performance when it rains.  Maybe it depends on
your definition of moderate rain zone.
   
  I think part of the problem with rain
fade is that it doesn’t get 6 dB worse at twice the
distance, it doubles (unless the link is long enough
that it never rains over the entire linke).
   
  So if you have 40 dB fades at 1 mile,
you’ll have 80 dB fades at 2 miles.  You’re not going to
make that up with xmt power or antenna size.
   
  But speaking of transmit power,
that’s another problem at 24 GHz, the regulatory EIRP
limit is quite low.
   
  We tend to talk like it’s all about
which equipment vendor is better.  Is Ubiquiti better
than Aviat?  But a lot of it is physics and regulatory. 
And maybe climate change.  It reminds me of winter
tires.  You can pay twice as much, but the performance
on ice might only be 10% better.  There’s only so much
you can do vs. laws of physics.  And states outlawing
studded tires because they tear up the roads.
   
   
  

  From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com>
On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2020 11:12 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full
    Duplex

  
   
  I don't think so. In moderate rain zones the AF24HD can
go 2 miles, and maybe some change. I'm not sure how far
you can go on 80 GHz, but I'm pretty sure it isn't that
far.
   
  bp
  
   
  
On 2/26/2020 9:08 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
  
  

  

  Is the
  range equivalent?


  

   


  
From:
Kurt Fankhauser 
  
  
Sent:
Wednesday, February 26, 2020 9:59 AM
  
  
To:
AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  
  
Subject:
    Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full
  

Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex

[Kurt Fankhauser]

the original post was for a .6km range, thats pretty short, im sure 80ghz
would do well on that range

On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 12:12 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> I don't think so. In moderate rain zones the AF24HD can go 2 miles, and
> maybe some change. I'm not sure how far you can go on 80 GHz, but I'm
> pretty sure it isn't that far.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 2/26/2020 9:08 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> Is the range equivalent?
>
> *From:* Kurt Fankhauser
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 26, 2020 9:59 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex
>
> for $5,000 the Aviat 80ghz solution is actually cheaper than AF24HD and
> 10x the throughput!
>
> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 10:36 AM Mathew Howard 
> wrote:
>
>> Good to know. That's an incredibly good deal... definitely what I'd go
>> with. You'll probably be paying at least that for a 1Gbps link from any of
>> the other manufacturers.
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 9:20 AM Darin Steffl 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes I ran into the same thing with the web store showing a higher cost.
>>>
>>> Just reach out to Ken and he'll quote you the pricing I'm talking about.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020, 9:05 AM Josh Baird  wrote:
>>>
>>>> It may be WISPA member pricing.
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 10:02 AM Mathew Howard 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Is there some kind of special pricing or something? I logged into my
>>>>> Aviat account, and it's looking more like $7k for a link to me.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:05 AM Josh Baird 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes - this is the WTM4800.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:53 AM Mike Hammett 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That is an insane value proposition over the AF24HD.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Which specific radio, the 10G single band 4800?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>>>>>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>>>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>>>>>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>>>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>>>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>>>>>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>>>>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> *From: *"Darin Steffl" 
>>>>>>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>>>>>>> *Sent: *Tuesday, February 25, 2020 9:29:10 PM
>>>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The best deal right now is Aviat 10Gbps full duplex for about $5k
>>>>>>> with dishes and everything.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 8:24 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Good choice Lewis!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We have a dozen of them and they are rock solid and fast!  Been
>>>>>>>> really amazed during rain events (heavy mountain downpours) that they 
>>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>>> on keepin on!!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Sean
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 6:27 PM Lewis Bergman <
>>>>>>>> lewis.berg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks everyone. I think we'll give the 80G Siklu a shot.
>>>>>>>>

Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex

[Dennis Burgess via AF]

Or  for 300 bucks you can run a MikroTik 60GHz link.
http://www.linktechs.net/productcart/pc/showsearchresults.asp?pageStyle=H==1=wireless+wire+dish
 will work quite well at .6km.  We have a .2 km link, snow rain, it just stays 
up.


[LTI-Full_175px]
Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCINE, MTCSE, HE IPv6 Sage, Cambium ePMP Certified
Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
Office: 314-735-0270  Website: 
http://www.linktechs.net<http://www.linktechs.net/>
Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com

From: AF  On Behalf Of Darin Steffl
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 9:29 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex

The best deal right now is Aviat 10Gbps full duplex for about $5k with dishes 
and everything.

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 8:24 PM Sean Heskett 
mailto:af...@zirkel.us>> wrote:
Good choice Lewis!

We have a dozen of them and they are rock solid and fast!  Been really amazed 
during rain events (heavy mountain downpours) that they keep on keepin on!!

-Sean


On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 6:27 PM Lewis Bergman 
mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Thanks everyone. I think we'll give the 80G Siklu a shot.

On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 12:00 PM Mathew Howard 
mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com>> wrote:
At that distance, rain fade shouldn't be a problem with 60ghz, so it really 
comes down to hardware reliability, and budget, and specific requirements.

If the project isn't cost sensitive, and you want the best you can get, then 
just go with 80ghz... there basically is no cheap junk for that band, so just 
pick your favorite vendor and buy what they have.
If you do want to go cheap, then there are a few things to consider. Ignitenet 
an Ubiquiti (although I don't think their radios are actually shipping yet), 
have an extra channel at the top end of the band that can get a bit better 
range, which the Mikrotiks can't (legally) use... but that's not really going 
to make a lot of difference at that distance anyway. Ignitenet is the only one 
with an SFP port, if that matters, and they also have a radio that's capable of 
2.5gbps, instead of only 1gpbs... they're also the most expensive of the cheap 
options. Mikrotik uses a beam forming antenna, so they're about 10x easier 
to aim then the Ignitenets (I believe Ubiquiti does as well, but I haven't used 
their radios yet).

None of the cheap 60ghz radios are true full duplex radios, but I think they're 
all capable of delivering a full gig in each direction at the same time.

If you don't want cheap, but don't want to deal with 80ghz licensing (which is 
pretty cheap and simple, but it is another thing that has to be done), then 
Siklu 60ghz would probably be a good option. Or you could just stick with 
AF24HD, which will certainly do the job, but considering what they cost, it 
makes more sense to me to just go with 80ghz at that distance. You could also 
go with Mimosa B24 for 24ghz, but they're half duplex radios, and I don't think 
that they can handle a full 2gbps aggregate.


On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 11:09 AM dave 
mailto:dmilho...@wletc.com>> wrote:
I guess it depends on the 9s you want.
Cheaper is not always better for consistency.


[cid:image002.jpg@01D5EC98.A2007220]
On 2/24/20 8:36 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
No way I would consider AF24HD for this.  You can get 80ghz links for less that 
do MUCH more throughput (10Gbps).

Vendors in this space include Bridgewave, Siklu and Aviat.  Aviat probably 
gives you the best bang for your buck.  Cambium has a new mmWave product, but I 
don't know anything about it.

Josh

On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 9:31 AM dave 
mailto:dmilho...@wletc.com>> wrote:
Not sure which product mentioned but the PTP550 unlicensed will take all of 
your 5g spectrum and
there is the ptp850E

[cid:image002.jpg@01D5EC98.A2007220]
On 2/24/20 8:27 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
What are the current recommendations for something like this. I see Cambium has 
something that looks like it will work but their product selector returns no 
matches .

Ubiquiti has the 24HD.

Anything else I should be aware of?
--
Lewis Bergman


--
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AF@af.afmug.com<mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


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--
Lewis Bergman
325-439-0533 Cell
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Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex

[Mike Hammett]

https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp/posts/1152763711515746 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2020 11:08:52 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex 




Is the range equivalent? 




From: Kurt Fankhauser 
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2020 9:59 AM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex 


for $5,000 the Aviat 80ghz solution is actually cheaper than AF24HD and 10x the 
throughput! 


On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 10:36 AM Mathew Howard < mhoward...@gmail.com > wrote: 



Good to know. That's an incredibly good deal... definitely what I'd go with. 
You'll probably be paying at least that for a 1Gbps link from any of the other 
manufacturers. 



On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 9:20 AM Darin Steffl < darin.ste...@mnwifi.com > wrote: 



Yes I ran into the same thing with the web store showing a higher cost. 

Just reach out to Ken and he'll quote you the pricing I'm talking about. 


On Wed, Feb 26, 2020, 9:05 AM Josh Baird < joshba...@gmail.com > wrote: 



It may be WISPA member pricing. 


On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 10:02 AM Mathew Howard < mhoward...@gmail.com > wrote: 



Is there some kind of special pricing or something? I logged into my Aviat 
account, and it's looking more like $7k for a link to me. 



On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:05 AM Josh Baird < joshba...@gmail.com > wrote: 



Yes - this is the WTM4800. 


On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:53 AM Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




That is an insane value proposition over the AF24HD. 

Which specific radio, the 10G single band 4800? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Darin Steffl" < darin.ste...@mnwifi.com > 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" < af@af.afmug.com > 
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 9:29:10 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex 


The best deal right now is Aviat 10Gbps full duplex for about $5k with dishes 
and everything. 


On Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 8:24 PM Sean Heskett < af...@zirkel.us > wrote: 




Good choice Lewis! 

We have a dozen of them and they are rock solid and fast! Been really amazed 
during rain events (heavy mountain downpours) that they keep on keepin on!! 

-Sean 




On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 6:27 PM Lewis Bergman < lewis.berg...@gmail.com > 
wrote: 



Thanks everyone. I think we'll give the 80G Siklu a shot. 


On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 12:00 PM Mathew Howard < mhoward...@gmail.com > wrote: 




At that distance, rain fade shouldn't be a problem with 60ghz, so it really 
comes down to hardware reliability, and budget, and specific requirements. 


If the project isn't cost sensitive, and you want the best you can get, then 
just go with 80ghz... there basically is no cheap junk for that band, so just 
pick your favorite vendor and buy what they have. 

If you do want to go cheap, then there are a few things to consider. Ignitenet 
an Ubiquiti (although I don't think their radios are actually shipping yet), 
have an extra channel at the top end of the band that can get a bit better 
range, which the Mikrotiks can't (legally) use... but that's not really going 
to make a lot of difference at that distance anyway. Ignitenet is the only one 
with an SFP port, if that matters, and they also have a radio that's capable of 
2.5gbps, instead of only 1gpbs... they're also the most expensive of the cheap 
options. Mikrotik uses a beam forming antenna, so they're about 10x easier 
to aim then the Ignitenets (I believe Ubiquiti does as well, but I haven't used 
their radios yet). 


None of the cheap 60ghz radios are true full duplex radios, but I think they're 
all capable of delivering a full gig in each direction at the same time. 

If you don't want cheap, but don't want to deal with 80ghz licensing (which is 
pretty cheap and simple, but it is another thing that has to be done), then 
Siklu 60ghz would probably be a good option. Or you could just stick with 
AF24HD, which will certainly do the job, but considering what they cost, it 
makes more sense to me to just go with 80ghz at that distance. You could also 
go with Mimosa B24 for 24ghz, but they're half duplex radios, and I don't think 
that they can handle a full 2gbps aggregate. 




On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 11:09 AM dave < dmilho...@wletc.com > wrote: 



I guess it depends on the 9s you want. 
Cheaper is not always better for consistency. 





On 2/24/20 8:36 AM, Josh Baird wrote: 



No way I would consider AF24HD for this. You can get 80ghz links for less that 
do MUCH more throughput (10Gbps). 

Vendors in this space include Bridgewave, Siklu and Aviat. Aviat probably gives 
you the best bang for yo

Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex

[Darin Steffl]

Comparing distance of 24 and 80ghz is somewhat pointless. Both will drop in
heavy rains even at short distances. I have a AF24 and siklu 80ghz link
under a half mile that have dropped in a heavy rain before.

Both will link up 5+ miles and work great until there is rain. Backups are
important when working in these bands.

They'll both run full capacity 99% of the time or more so just plan for a
lower capacity backup link for that other 1% of the time.

On Wed, Feb 26, 2020, 11:22 AM Cassidy B. Larson  wrote:

> I have an AF24HD going 9.5 miles, linking at 700M+ both ways.   Bounces
> between 9X and 10X
>
> I also have a Siklu 80GHz with 2ft dishes going 3+ miles with 10G
> capacity.
>
>
> On Feb 26, 2020, at 10:11 AM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>
> I don't think so. In moderate rain zones the AF24HD can go 2 miles, and
> maybe some change. I'm not sure how far you can go on 80 GHz, but I'm
> pretty sure it isn't that far.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 2/26/2020 9:08 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> Is the range equivalent?
>
> *From:* Kurt Fankhauser
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 26, 2020 9:59 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex
>
> for $5,000 the Aviat 80ghz solution is actually cheaper than AF24HD and
> 10x the throughput!
>
> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 10:36 AM Mathew Howard 
> wrote:
>
>> Good to know. That's an incredibly good deal... definitely what I'd go
>> with. You'll probably be paying at least that for a 1Gbps link from any of
>> the other manufacturers.
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 9:20 AM Darin Steffl 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes I ran into the same thing with the web store showing a higher cost.
>>>
>>> Just reach out to Ken and he'll quote you the pricing I'm talking about.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020, 9:05 AM Josh Baird  wrote:
>>>
>>>> It may be WISPA member pricing.
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 10:02 AM Mathew Howard 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Is there some kind of special pricing or something? I logged into my
>>>>> Aviat account, and it's looking more like $7k for a link to me.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:05 AM Josh Baird 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes - this is the WTM4800.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:53 AM Mike Hammett 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That is an insane value proposition over the AF24HD.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Which specific radio, the 10G single band 4800?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>>>>>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>>>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>>>>>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>>>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>>>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>>>>>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>>>>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> *From: *"Darin Steffl" 
>>>>>>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>>>>>>> *Sent: *Tuesday, February 25, 2020 9:29:10 PM
>>>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The best deal right now is Aviat 10Gbps full duplex for about $5k
>>>>>>> with dishes and everything.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 8:24 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Good choice Lewis!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We have a dozen of them and they are rock solid and fast!  Been
>>>>&

Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex

[Ken Hohhof]

My recollection is that WISPs who have tried 24 GHz even at 2 miles have been 
frustrated with the performance when it rains.  Maybe it depends on your 
definition of moderate rain zone.

 

I think part of the problem with rain fade is that it doesn’t get 6 dB worse at 
twice the distance, it doubles (unless the link is long enough that it never 
rains over the entire linke).

 

So if you have 40 dB fades at 1 mile, you’ll have 80 dB fades at 2 miles.  
You’re not going to make that up with xmt power or antenna size.

 

But speaking of transmit power, that’s another problem at 24 GHz, the 
regulatory EIRP limit is quite low.

 

We tend to talk like it’s all about which equipment vendor is better.  Is 
Ubiquiti better than Aviat?  But a lot of it is physics and regulatory.  And 
maybe climate change.  It reminds me of winter tires.  You can pay twice as 
much, but the performance on ice might only be 10% better.  There’s only so 
much you can do vs. laws of physics.  And states outlawing studded tires 
because they tear up the roads.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2020 11:12 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex

 

I don't think so. In moderate rain zones the AF24HD can go 2 miles, and maybe 
some change. I'm not sure how far you can go on 80 GHz, but I'm pretty sure it 
isn't that far.

 

bp

 

On 2/26/2020 9:08 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>  wrote:

Is the range equivalent?

 

From: Kurt Fankhauser 

Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2020 9:59 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex

 

for $5,000 the Aviat 80ghz solution is actually cheaper than AF24HD and 10x the 
throughput! 

 

On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 10:36 AM Mathew Howard mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Good to know. That's an incredibly good deal... definitely what I'd go with. 
You'll probably be paying at least that for a 1Gbps link from any of the other 
manufacturers.

 

On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 9:20 AM Darin Steffl mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com> > wrote:

Yes I ran into the same thing with the web store showing a higher cost. 

 

Just reach out to Ken and he'll quote you the pricing I'm talking about. 

 

On Wed, Feb 26, 2020, 9:05 AM Josh Baird mailto:joshba...@gmail.com> > wrote:

It may be WISPA member pricing.

 

On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 10:02 AM Mathew Howard mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Is there some kind of special pricing or something? I logged into my Aviat 
account, and it's looking more like $7k for a link to me.

 

On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:05 AM Josh Baird mailto:joshba...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Yes - this is the WTM4800.

 

On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:53 AM Mike Hammett mailto:af...@ics-il.net> > wrote:

That is an insane value proposition over the AF24HD. 

 

Which specific radio, the 10G single band 4800?



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> 
 <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>  
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>  
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL> 
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> 
 <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>  
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix> 
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> 
 <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>  
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> 





  _  


From: "Darin Steffl" mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com> >
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 9:29:10 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex

The best deal right now is Aviat 10Gbps full duplex for about $5k with dishes 
and everything. 

 

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 8:24 PM Sean Heskett mailto:af...@zirkel.us> > wrote:

Good choice Lewis!

 

We have a dozen of them and they are rock solid and fast!  Been really amazed 
during rain events (heavy mountain downpours) that they keep on keepin on!!

 

-Sean

 

 

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 6:27 PM Lewis Bergman mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Thanks everyone. I think we'll give the 80G Siklu a shot.

 

On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 12:00 PM Mathew Howard mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com> > wrote:

At that distance, rain fade shouldn't be a problem with 60ghz, so it really 
comes down to hardware reliability, and budget, and specific requirements. 

 

If the project isn't cost sensitive, and you want the best you can get, then 
just go with 80ghz... there basically is no cheap junk for that band, so just 
pick your favorite vendor and buy what they have. 

If you do want to go cheap, then there are a few things to consider. Ignitenet 
an

Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex

[Cassidy B. Larson]

I have an AF24HD going 9.5 miles, linking at 700M+ both ways.   Bounces between 
9X and 10X 

I also have a Siklu 80GHz with 2ft dishes going 3+ miles with 10G capacity. 


> On Feb 26, 2020, at 10:11 AM, Bill Prince  wrote:
> 
> I don't think so. In moderate rain zones the AF24HD can go 2 miles, and maybe 
> some change. I'm not sure how far you can go on 80 GHz, but I'm pretty sure 
> it isn't that far.
> 
> 
> 
> bp
> 
> 
> On 2/26/2020 9:08 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>> Is the range equivalent?
>>  
>> From: Kurt Fankhauser <>
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2020 9:59 AM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <>
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex
>>  
>> for $5,000 the Aviat 80ghz solution is actually cheaper than AF24HD and 10x 
>> the throughput!
>>  
>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 10:36 AM Mathew Howard > 
>> wrote:
>> Good to know. That's an incredibly good deal... definitely what I'd go with. 
>> You'll probably be paying at least that for a 1Gbps link from any of the 
>> other manufacturers.
>>  
>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 9:20 AM Darin Steffl > 
>> wrote:
>> Yes I ran into the same thing with the web store showing a higher cost.
>>  
>> Just reach out to Ken and he'll quote you the pricing I'm talking about.
>>  
>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020, 9:05 AM Josh Baird > wrote:
>> It may be WISPA member pricing.
>>  
>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 10:02 AM Mathew Howard > 
>> wrote:
>> Is there some kind of special pricing or something? I logged into my Aviat 
>> account, and it's looking more like $7k for a link to me.
>>  
>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:05 AM Josh Baird > wrote:
>> Yes - this is the WTM4800.
>>  
>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:53 AM Mike Hammett > wrote:
>> That is an insane value proposition over the AF24HD.
>>  
>> Which specific radio, the 10G single band 4800?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>  <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> 
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> 
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> 
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>  <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> 
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> 
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>  <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>> 
>> 
>>  <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> From: "Darin Steffl" >
>> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" >
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 9:29:10 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex
>> 
>> The best deal right now is Aviat 10Gbps full duplex for about $5k with 
>> dishes and everything.
>>  
>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 8:24 PM Sean Heskett > wrote:
>> Good choice Lewis!
>>  
>> We have a dozen of them and they are rock solid and fast!  Been really 
>> amazed during rain events (heavy mountain downpours) that they keep on 
>> keepin on!!
>>  
>> -Sean
>>  
>>  
>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 6:27 PM Lewis Bergman > 
>> wrote:
>> Thanks everyone. I think we'll give the 80G Siklu a shot.
>>  
>> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 12:00 PM Mathew Howard > 
>> wrote:
>> At that distance, rain fade shouldn't be a problem with 60ghz, so it really 
>> comes down to hardware reliability, and budget, and specific requirements. 
>>  
>> If the project isn't cost sensitive, and you want the best you can get, then 
>> just go with 80ghz... there basically is no cheap junk for that band, so 
>> just pick your favorite vendor and buy what they have. 
>> If you do want to go cheap, then there are a few things to consider. 
>> Ignitenet an Ubiquiti (although I don't think their radios are actually 
>> shipping yet), have an extra channel at the top end of the band that can get 
>> a bit better range, which the Mikrotiks can't (legally) use... but that's 
>> not really going to make a lot of difference at that distance anyway. 
>> Ignitenet is the only one with an SFP port, if that matters, and they also 
>> have a radio that's capable of 2.5gbps, instead of only 1gpbs... they're 
>> also the most expensive of the cheap options. Mikrotik uses a b

Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex

[Josh Baird]

Depends on dish size and rain zone.. there are folks who definitely have
2mi 80ghz links.

On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 12:12 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> I don't think so. In moderate rain zones the AF24HD can go 2 miles, and
> maybe some change. I'm not sure how far you can go on 80 GHz, but I'm
> pretty sure it isn't that far.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 2/26/2020 9:08 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> Is the range equivalent?
>
> *From:* Kurt Fankhauser
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 26, 2020 9:59 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex
>
> for $5,000 the Aviat 80ghz solution is actually cheaper than AF24HD and
> 10x the throughput!
>
> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 10:36 AM Mathew Howard 
> wrote:
>
>> Good to know. That's an incredibly good deal... definitely what I'd go
>> with. You'll probably be paying at least that for a 1Gbps link from any of
>> the other manufacturers.
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 9:20 AM Darin Steffl 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes I ran into the same thing with the web store showing a higher cost.
>>>
>>> Just reach out to Ken and he'll quote you the pricing I'm talking about.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020, 9:05 AM Josh Baird  wrote:
>>>
>>>> It may be WISPA member pricing.
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 10:02 AM Mathew Howard 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Is there some kind of special pricing or something? I logged into my
>>>>> Aviat account, and it's looking more like $7k for a link to me.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:05 AM Josh Baird 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes - this is the WTM4800.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:53 AM Mike Hammett 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That is an insane value proposition over the AF24HD.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Which specific radio, the 10G single band 4800?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>>>>>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>>>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>>>>>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>>>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>>>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>>>>>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>>>>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> *From: *"Darin Steffl" 
>>>>>>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>>>>>>> *Sent: *Tuesday, February 25, 2020 9:29:10 PM
>>>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The best deal right now is Aviat 10Gbps full duplex for about $5k
>>>>>>> with dishes and everything.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 8:24 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Good choice Lewis!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We have a dozen of them and they are rock solid and fast!  Been
>>>>>>>> really amazed during rain events (heavy mountain downpours) that they 
>>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>>> on keepin on!!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Sean
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 6:27 PM Lewis Bergman <
>>>>>>>> lewis.berg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks everyone. I think we'll give the 80G Siklu a shot.
>>>>>>>>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex

[Bill Prince]

  
  
I don't think so. In moderate rain zones the AF24HD can go 2
  miles, and maybe some change. I'm not sure how far you can go on
  80 GHz, but I'm pretty sure it isn't that far.


bp



On 2/26/2020 9:08 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com
  wrote:


  
  

  Is the range equivalent?
  

   
  
From: Kurt Fankhauser 
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2020 9:59 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users
Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full
  Duplex
  

 
  
  
for $5,000 the Aviat 80ghz solution is
  actually cheaper than AF24HD and 10x the throughput! 
 

  On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at
10:36 AM Mathew Howard <mhoward...@gmail.com>
wrote:
  
  
Good to know. That's an incredibly good
  deal... definitely what I'd go with. You'll probably
  be paying at least that for a 1Gbps link from any of
  the other manufacturers.

 

  On Wed, Feb 26, 2020
at 9:20 AM Darin Steffl <darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>
wrote:
  
  
Yes I ran into the same thing with the web
  store showing a higher cost.
   
  Just reach out to Ken and he'll quote you the
pricing I'm talking about. 

 

  On Wed, Feb 26,
2020, 9:05 AM Josh Baird <joshba...@gmail.com>
wrote:
  
  
It may be WISPA member pricing.
 

  On Wed, Feb
26, 2020 at 10:02 AM Mathew Howard <mhoward...@gmail.com>
wrote:
  
  
Is there some kind of special
  pricing or something? I logged into my
  Aviat account, and it's looking more like
  $7k for a link to me.

 

  On Wed,
Feb 26, 2020 at 8:05 AM Josh Baird <joshba...@gmail.com>
wrote:
  
  
Yes - this is the
  WTM4800.
 

  On
Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:53 AM Mike
Hammett <af...@ics-il.net>
wrote:
  
  

  That is an
insane value proposition over
the AF24HD.
 
Which specific radio, the
  10G single band 4800?
  
  

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent
  Computing Solutions

Midwest
  Internet Exchange

The
  Brothers WISP

  
  

  
  
  From: "Darin
Steffl" <darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>
To: "AnimalFarm
Microwave Users Group" <af@af.afm

Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex

[Mike Hammett]

Depends on rain. 


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bmu3Tsbj1RqtBfEGay5UarPMLK4_NF3WdtxH0WtxDjQ/edit?usp=sharing
 





- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2020 11:08:52 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex 




Is the range equivalent? 




From: Kurt Fankhauser 
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2020 9:59 AM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex 


for $5,000 the Aviat 80ghz solution is actually cheaper than AF24HD and 10x the 
throughput! 


On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 10:36 AM Mathew Howard < mhoward...@gmail.com > wrote: 



Good to know. That's an incredibly good deal... definitely what I'd go with. 
You'll probably be paying at least that for a 1Gbps link from any of the other 
manufacturers. 



On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 9:20 AM Darin Steffl < darin.ste...@mnwifi.com > wrote: 



Yes I ran into the same thing with the web store showing a higher cost. 

Just reach out to Ken and he'll quote you the pricing I'm talking about. 


On Wed, Feb 26, 2020, 9:05 AM Josh Baird < joshba...@gmail.com > wrote: 



It may be WISPA member pricing. 


On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 10:02 AM Mathew Howard < mhoward...@gmail.com > wrote: 



Is there some kind of special pricing or something? I logged into my Aviat 
account, and it's looking more like $7k for a link to me. 



On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:05 AM Josh Baird < joshba...@gmail.com > wrote: 



Yes - this is the WTM4800. 


On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:53 AM Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




That is an insane value proposition over the AF24HD. 

Which specific radio, the 10G single band 4800? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Darin Steffl" < darin.ste...@mnwifi.com > 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" < af@af.afmug.com > 
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 9:29:10 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex 


The best deal right now is Aviat 10Gbps full duplex for about $5k with dishes 
and everything. 


On Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 8:24 PM Sean Heskett < af...@zirkel.us > wrote: 




Good choice Lewis! 

We have a dozen of them and they are rock solid and fast! Been really amazed 
during rain events (heavy mountain downpours) that they keep on keepin on!! 

-Sean 




On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 6:27 PM Lewis Bergman < lewis.berg...@gmail.com > 
wrote: 



Thanks everyone. I think we'll give the 80G Siklu a shot. 


On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 12:00 PM Mathew Howard < mhoward...@gmail.com > wrote: 




At that distance, rain fade shouldn't be a problem with 60ghz, so it really 
comes down to hardware reliability, and budget, and specific requirements. 


If the project isn't cost sensitive, and you want the best you can get, then 
just go with 80ghz... there basically is no cheap junk for that band, so just 
pick your favorite vendor and buy what they have. 

If you do want to go cheap, then there are a few things to consider. Ignitenet 
an Ubiquiti (although I don't think their radios are actually shipping yet), 
have an extra channel at the top end of the band that can get a bit better 
range, which the Mikrotiks can't (legally) use... but that's not really going 
to make a lot of difference at that distance anyway. Ignitenet is the only one 
with an SFP port, if that matters, and they also have a radio that's capable of 
2.5gbps, instead of only 1gpbs... they're also the most expensive of the cheap 
options. Mikrotik uses a beam forming antenna, so they're about 10x easier 
to aim then the Ignitenets (I believe Ubiquiti does as well, but I haven't used 
their radios yet). 


None of the cheap 60ghz radios are true full duplex radios, but I think they're 
all capable of delivering a full gig in each direction at the same time. 

If you don't want cheap, but don't want to deal with 80ghz licensing (which is 
pretty cheap and simple, but it is another thing that has to be done), then 
Siklu 60ghz would probably be a good option. Or you could just stick with 
AF24HD, which will certainly do the job, but considering what they cost, it 
makes more sense to me to just go with 80ghz at that distance. You could also 
go with Mimosa B24 for 24ghz, but they're half duplex radios, and I don't think 
that they can handle a full 2gbps aggregate. 




On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 11:09 AM dave < dmilho...@wletc.com > wrote: 



I guess it depends on the 9s you want. 
Cheaper is not always better for consistency. 





On 2/24/20 8:36 AM, Josh Baird wrote: 



No way I would consider AF24HD for this. You can get 80ghz links for less that 
do MUCH more throughput (10Gbps). 

Vendors in this space include Bridgewave, Si

Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex

[chuck]

Is the range equivalent?

From: Kurt Fankhauser 
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2020 9:59 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex

for $5,000 the Aviat 80ghz solution is actually cheaper than AF24HD and 10x the 
throughput! 

On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 10:36 AM Mathew Howard  wrote:

  Good to know. That's an incredibly good deal... definitely what I'd go with. 
You'll probably be paying at least that for a 1Gbps link from any of the other 
manufacturers.


  On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 9:20 AM Darin Steffl  wrote:

Yes I ran into the same thing with the web store showing a higher cost. 

Just reach out to Ken and he'll quote you the pricing I'm talking about. 

On Wed, Feb 26, 2020, 9:05 AM Josh Baird  wrote:

  It may be WISPA member pricing.

  On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 10:02 AM Mathew Howard  
wrote:

Is there some kind of special pricing or something? I logged into my 
Aviat account, and it's looking more like $7k for a link to me.


On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:05 AM Josh Baird  wrote:

  Yes - this is the WTM4800.

  On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:53 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:

That is an insane value proposition over the AF24HD. 

Which specific radio, the 10G single band 4800?




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Darin Steffl" 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 9:29:10 PM
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex


The best deal right now is Aviat 10Gbps full duplex for about $5k 
with dishes and everything. 

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 8:24 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:

  Good choice Lewis!

  We have a dozen of them and they are rock solid and fast!  Been 
really amazed during rain events (heavy mountain downpours) that they keep on 
keepin on!!

  -Sean


  On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 6:27 PM Lewis Bergman 
 wrote:

Thanks everyone. I think we'll give the 80G Siklu a shot.

On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 12:00 PM Mathew Howard 
 wrote:

  At that distance, rain fade shouldn't be a problem with 
60ghz, so it really comes down to hardware reliability, and budget, and 
specific requirements. 


  If the project isn't cost sensitive, and you want the best 
you can get, then just go with 80ghz... there basically is no cheap junk for 
that band, so just pick your favorite vendor and buy what they have. 

  If you do want to go cheap, then there are a few things to 
consider. Ignitenet an Ubiquiti (although I don't think their radios are 
actually shipping yet), have an extra channel at the top end of the band that 
can get a bit better range, which the Mikrotiks can't (legally) use... but 
that's not really going to make a lot of difference at that distance anyway. 
Ignitenet is the only one with an SFP port, if that matters, and they also have 
a radio that's capable of 2.5gbps, instead of only 1gpbs... they're also the 
most expensive of the cheap options. Mikrotik uses a beam forming antenna, so 
they're about 10x easier to aim then the Ignitenets (I believe Ubiquiti 
does as well, but I haven't used their radios yet). 


  None of the cheap 60ghz radios are true full duplex radios, 
but I think they're all capable of delivering a full gig in each direction at 
the same time.

  If you don't want cheap, but don't want to deal with 80ghz 
licensing (which is pretty cheap and simple, but it is another thing that has 
to be done), then Siklu 60ghz would probably be a good option. Or you could 
just stick with AF24HD, which will certainly do the job, but considering what 
they cost, it makes more sense to me to just go with 80ghz at that distance. 
You could also go with Mimosa B24 for 24ghz, but they're half duplex radios, 
and I don't think that they can handle a full 2gbps aggregate.



  On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 11:09 AM dave  
wrote:

I guess it depends on the 9s you want. 
Cheaper is not always better for consistency. 





On 2/24/20 8:36 AM, Josh Baird wrote:

  No way I would consider AF24HD for this.  You can get 
80ghz links for less that do MUCH more throughput (10Gbps). 

  Vendors in this space include Bridgewave, Siklu and 
Aviat.  Aviat probably gives you the best bang for your buck.  Cambium has a 
new mmWave product, but I don't know anything about it.


  Josh

  On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 9:31 AM dave 
 wrote:

No

Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex

[Mike Hammett]

and has optical interfaces and.. and... and... 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Kurt Fankhauser"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2020 10:59:05 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex 


for $5,000 the Aviat 80ghz solution is actually cheaper than AF24HD and 10x the 
throughput! 


On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 10:36 AM Mathew Howard < mhoward...@gmail.com > wrote: 



Good to know. That's an incredibly good deal... definitely what I'd go with. 
You'll probably be paying at least that for a 1Gbps link from any of the other 
manufacturers. 



On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 9:20 AM Darin Steffl < darin.ste...@mnwifi.com > wrote: 



Yes I ran into the same thing with the web store showing a higher cost. 


Just reach out to Ken and he'll quote you the pricing I'm talking about. 


On Wed, Feb 26, 2020, 9:05 AM Josh Baird < joshba...@gmail.com > wrote: 



It may be WISPA member pricing. 


On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 10:02 AM Mathew Howard < mhoward...@gmail.com > wrote: 



Is there some kind of special pricing or something? I logged into my Aviat 
account, and it's looking more like $7k for a link to me. 



On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:05 AM Josh Baird < joshba...@gmail.com > wrote: 



Yes - this is the WTM4800. 


On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:53 AM Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




That is an insane value proposition over the AF24HD. 


Which specific radio, the 10G single band 4800? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Darin Steffl" < darin.ste...@mnwifi.com > 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" < af@af.afmug.com > 
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 9:29:10 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex 


The best deal right now is Aviat 10Gbps full duplex for about $5k with dishes 
and everything. 


On Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 8:24 PM Sean Heskett < af...@zirkel.us > wrote: 




Good choice Lewis! 


We have a dozen of them and they are rock solid and fast! Been really amazed 
during rain events (heavy mountain downpours) that they keep on keepin on!! 


-Sean 





On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 6:27 PM Lewis Bergman < lewis.berg...@gmail.com > 
wrote: 



Thanks everyone. I think we'll give the 80G Siklu a shot. 


On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 12:00 PM Mathew Howard < mhoward...@gmail.com > wrote: 




At that distance, rain fade shouldn't be a problem with 60ghz, so it really 
comes down to hardware reliability, and budget, and specific requirements. 



If the project isn't cost sensitive, and you want the best you can get, then 
just go with 80ghz... there basically is no cheap junk for that band, so just 
pick your favorite vendor and buy what they have. 

If you do want to go cheap, then there are a few things to consider. Ignitenet 
an Ubiquiti (although I don't think their radios are actually shipping yet), 
have an extra channel at the top end of the band that can get a bit better 
range, which the Mikrotiks can't (legally) use... but that's not really going 
to make a lot of difference at that distance anyway. Ignitenet is the only one 
with an SFP port, if that matters, and they also have a radio that's capable of 
2.5gbps, instead of only 1gpbs... they're also the most expensive of the cheap 
options. Mikrotik uses a beam forming antenna, so they're about 10x easier 
to aim then the Ignitenets (I believe Ubiquiti does as well, but I haven't used 
their radios yet). 



None of the cheap 60ghz radios are true full duplex radios, but I think they're 
all capable of delivering a full gig in each direction at the same time. 


If you don't want cheap, but don't want to deal with 80ghz licensing (which is 
pretty cheap and simple, but it is another thing that has to be done), then 
Siklu 60ghz would probably be a good option. Or you could just stick with 
AF24HD, which will certainly do the job, but considering what they cost, it 
makes more sense to me to just go with 80ghz at that distance. You could also 
go with Mimosa B24 for 24ghz, but they're half duplex radios, and I don't think 
that they can handle a full 2gbps aggregate. 





On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 11:09 AM dave < dmilho...@wletc.com > wrote: 



I guess it depends on the 9s you want. 
Cheaper is not always better for consistency. 





On 2/24/20 8:36 AM, Josh Baird wrote: 



No way I would consider AF24HD for this. You can get 80ghz links for less that 
do MUCH more throughput (10Gbps). 


Vendors in this space include Bridgewave, Siklu and Aviat. Aviat probably gives 
you the best bang for your buck. Cambium has a new mmWave product, but I don't 
know anything about it. 



Josh 


On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 9:31 AM dave < dmilho...@wletc.com > wrote: 



Not sure which pr

Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex

[Kurt Fankhauser]

for $5,000 the Aviat 80ghz solution is actually cheaper than AF24HD and 10x
the throughput!

On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 10:36 AM Mathew Howard  wrote:

> Good to know. That's an incredibly good deal... definitely what I'd go
> with. You'll probably be paying at least that for a 1Gbps link from any of
> the other manufacturers.
>
> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 9:20 AM Darin Steffl 
> wrote:
>
>> Yes I ran into the same thing with the web store showing a higher cost.
>>
>> Just reach out to Ken and he'll quote you the pricing I'm talking about.
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020, 9:05 AM Josh Baird  wrote:
>>
>>> It may be WISPA member pricing.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 10:02 AM Mathew Howard 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Is there some kind of special pricing or something? I logged into my
>>>> Aviat account, and it's looking more like $7k for a link to me.
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:05 AM Josh Baird  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Yes - this is the WTM4800.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:53 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> That is an insane value proposition over the AF24HD.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Which specific radio, the 10G single band 4800?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -
>>>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>>>>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>>>>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>>>>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>>>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> *From: *"Darin Steffl" 
>>>>>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>>>>>> *Sent: *Tuesday, February 25, 2020 9:29:10 PM
>>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The best deal right now is Aviat 10Gbps full duplex for about $5k
>>>>>> with dishes and everything.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 8:24 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Good choice Lewis!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We have a dozen of them and they are rock solid and fast!  Been
>>>>>>> really amazed during rain events (heavy mountain downpours) that they 
>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>> on keepin on!!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Sean
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 6:27 PM Lewis Bergman <
>>>>>>> lewis.berg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks everyone. I think we'll give the 80G Siklu a shot.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 12:00 PM Mathew Howard <
>>>>>>>> mhoward...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> At that distance, rain fade shouldn't be a problem with 60ghz, so
>>>>>>>>> it really comes down to hardware reliability, and budget, and specific
>>>>>>>>> requirements.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If the project isn't cost sensitive, and you want the best you can
>>>>>>>>> get, then just go with 80ghz... there basically is no cheap junk for 
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> band, so just pick your favorite vendor and buy what they have.
>>>>>>>>> If you do want to go cheap, then there are a few things to
>>>>>>>>> consider. Ignitenet an Ubiquiti (although I don't th

Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex

[Mathew Howard]

Good to know. That's an incredibly good deal... definitely what I'd go
with. You'll probably be paying at least that for a 1Gbps link from any of
the other manufacturers.

On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 9:20 AM Darin Steffl 
wrote:

> Yes I ran into the same thing with the web store showing a higher cost.
>
> Just reach out to Ken and he'll quote you the pricing I'm talking about.
>
> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020, 9:05 AM Josh Baird  wrote:
>
>> It may be WISPA member pricing.
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 10:02 AM Mathew Howard 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Is there some kind of special pricing or something? I logged into my
>>> Aviat account, and it's looking more like $7k for a link to me.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:05 AM Josh Baird  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yes - this is the WTM4800.
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:53 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> That is an insane value proposition over the AF24HD.
>>>>>
>>>>> Which specific radio, the 10G single band 4800?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -
>>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>>>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>>>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>>>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>>>> --
>>>>> *From: *"Darin Steffl" 
>>>>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>>>>> *Sent: *Tuesday, February 25, 2020 9:29:10 PM
>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex
>>>>>
>>>>> The best deal right now is Aviat 10Gbps full duplex for about $5k with
>>>>> dishes and everything.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 8:24 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Good choice Lewis!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We have a dozen of them and they are rock solid and fast!  Been
>>>>>> really amazed during rain events (heavy mountain downpours) that they 
>>>>>> keep
>>>>>> on keepin on!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Sean
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 6:27 PM Lewis Bergman <
>>>>>> lewis.berg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks everyone. I think we'll give the 80G Siklu a shot.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 12:00 PM Mathew Howard 
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> At that distance, rain fade shouldn't be a problem with 60ghz, so
>>>>>>>> it really comes down to hardware reliability, and budget, and specific
>>>>>>>> requirements.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If the project isn't cost sensitive, and you want the best you can
>>>>>>>> get, then just go with 80ghz... there basically is no cheap junk for 
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> band, so just pick your favorite vendor and buy what they have.
>>>>>>>> If you do want to go cheap, then there are a few things to
>>>>>>>> consider. Ignitenet an Ubiquiti (although I don't think their radios 
>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>> actually shipping yet), have an extra channel at the top end of the 
>>>>>>>> band
>>>>>>>> that can get a bit better range, which the Mikrotiks can't (legally) 
>>>>>>>> use...
>>>>>>>> but that's not really going to make a lot of difference at that 
>>>>>>>> distance
>>>>>>>> anyway. Ignitenet is the on

Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex

[Darin Steffl]

Yes I ran into the same thing with the web store showing a higher cost.

Just reach out to Ken and he'll quote you the pricing I'm talking about.

On Wed, Feb 26, 2020, 9:05 AM Josh Baird  wrote:

> It may be WISPA member pricing.
>
> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 10:02 AM Mathew Howard 
> wrote:
>
>> Is there some kind of special pricing or something? I logged into my
>> Aviat account, and it's looking more like $7k for a link to me.
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:05 AM Josh Baird  wrote:
>>
>>> Yes - this is the WTM4800.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:53 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>>>
>>>> That is an insane value proposition over the AF24HD.
>>>>
>>>> Which specific radio, the 10G single band 4800?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -
>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>>> --
>>>> *From: *"Darin Steffl" 
>>>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>>>> *Sent: *Tuesday, February 25, 2020 9:29:10 PM
>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex
>>>>
>>>> The best deal right now is Aviat 10Gbps full duplex for about $5k with
>>>> dishes and everything.
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 8:24 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Good choice Lewis!
>>>>>
>>>>> We have a dozen of them and they are rock solid and fast!  Been really
>>>>> amazed during rain events (heavy mountain downpours) that they keep on
>>>>> keepin on!!
>>>>>
>>>>> -Sean
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 6:27 PM Lewis Bergman 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks everyone. I think we'll give the 80G Siklu a shot.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 12:00 PM Mathew Howard 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> At that distance, rain fade shouldn't be a problem with 60ghz, so it
>>>>>>> really comes down to hardware reliability, and budget, and specific
>>>>>>> requirements.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If the project isn't cost sensitive, and you want the best you can
>>>>>>> get, then just go with 80ghz... there basically is no cheap junk for 
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> band, so just pick your favorite vendor and buy what they have.
>>>>>>> If you do want to go cheap, then there are a few things to consider.
>>>>>>> Ignitenet an Ubiquiti (although I don't think their radios are actually
>>>>>>> shipping yet), have an extra channel at the top end of the band that can
>>>>>>> get a bit better range, which the Mikrotiks can't (legally) use... but
>>>>>>> that's not really going to make a lot of difference at that distance
>>>>>>> anyway. Ignitenet is the only one with an SFP port, if that matters, and
>>>>>>> they also have a radio that's capable of 2.5gbps, instead of only 
>>>>>>> 1gpbs...
>>>>>>> they're also the most expensive of the cheap options. Mikrotik uses a 
>>>>>>> beam
>>>>>>> forming antenna, so they're about 10x easier to aim then the 
>>>>>>> Ignitenets
>>>>>>> (I believe Ubiquiti does as well, but I haven't used their radios yet).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> None of the cheap 60ghz radios are true full duplex radios, but I
>>>>>>> think they're all capable of delivering a full gig in each

Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex

[Josh Baird]

It may be WISPA member pricing.

On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 10:02 AM Mathew Howard  wrote:

> Is there some kind of special pricing or something? I logged into my Aviat
> account, and it's looking more like $7k for a link to me.
>
> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:05 AM Josh Baird  wrote:
>
>> Yes - this is the WTM4800.
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:53 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>>
>>> That is an insane value proposition over the AF24HD.
>>>
>>> Which specific radio, the 10G single band 4800?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>
>>>
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>> --
>>> *From: *"Darin Steffl" 
>>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>>> *Sent: *Tuesday, February 25, 2020 9:29:10 PM
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex
>>>
>>> The best deal right now is Aviat 10Gbps full duplex for about $5k with
>>> dishes and everything.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 8:24 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Good choice Lewis!
>>>>
>>>> We have a dozen of them and they are rock solid and fast!  Been really
>>>> amazed during rain events (heavy mountain downpours) that they keep on
>>>> keepin on!!
>>>>
>>>> -Sean
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 6:27 PM Lewis Bergman 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks everyone. I think we'll give the 80G Siklu a shot.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 12:00 PM Mathew Howard 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> At that distance, rain fade shouldn't be a problem with 60ghz, so it
>>>>>> really comes down to hardware reliability, and budget, and specific
>>>>>> requirements.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If the project isn't cost sensitive, and you want the best you can
>>>>>> get, then just go with 80ghz... there basically is no cheap junk for that
>>>>>> band, so just pick your favorite vendor and buy what they have.
>>>>>> If you do want to go cheap, then there are a few things to consider.
>>>>>> Ignitenet an Ubiquiti (although I don't think their radios are actually
>>>>>> shipping yet), have an extra channel at the top end of the band that can
>>>>>> get a bit better range, which the Mikrotiks can't (legally) use... but
>>>>>> that's not really going to make a lot of difference at that distance
>>>>>> anyway. Ignitenet is the only one with an SFP port, if that matters, and
>>>>>> they also have a radio that's capable of 2.5gbps, instead of only 
>>>>>> 1gpbs...
>>>>>> they're also the most expensive of the cheap options. Mikrotik uses a 
>>>>>> beam
>>>>>> forming antenna, so they're about 10x easier to aim then the 
>>>>>> Ignitenets
>>>>>> (I believe Ubiquiti does as well, but I haven't used their radios yet).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> None of the cheap 60ghz radios are true full duplex radios, but I
>>>>>> think they're all capable of delivering a full gig in each direction at 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> same time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you don't want cheap, but don't want to deal with 80ghz licensing
>>>>>> (which is pretty cheap and simple, but it is another thing that has to be
>>>>>> done), then Siklu 60ghz would probably be a good option. Or you could 
>>>>>> just
>>>>>> stick with AF24HD, which will certainly do the job, but considering what
>>>>>> they cost, it makes more sens

Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex

[Mathew Howard]

Is there some kind of special pricing or something? I logged into my Aviat
account, and it's looking more like $7k for a link to me.

On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:05 AM Josh Baird  wrote:

> Yes - this is the WTM4800.
>
> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:53 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> That is an insane value proposition over the AF24HD.
>>
>> Which specific radio, the 10G single band 4800?
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> --
>> *From: *"Darin Steffl" 
>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>> *Sent: *Tuesday, February 25, 2020 9:29:10 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex
>>
>> The best deal right now is Aviat 10Gbps full duplex for about $5k with
>> dishes and everything.
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 8:24 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>
>>> Good choice Lewis!
>>>
>>> We have a dozen of them and they are rock solid and fast!  Been really
>>> amazed during rain events (heavy mountain downpours) that they keep on
>>> keepin on!!
>>>
>>> -Sean
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 6:27 PM Lewis Bergman 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks everyone. I think we'll give the 80G Siklu a shot.
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 12:00 PM Mathew Howard 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> At that distance, rain fade shouldn't be a problem with 60ghz, so it
>>>>> really comes down to hardware reliability, and budget, and specific
>>>>> requirements.
>>>>>
>>>>> If the project isn't cost sensitive, and you want the best you can
>>>>> get, then just go with 80ghz... there basically is no cheap junk for that
>>>>> band, so just pick your favorite vendor and buy what they have.
>>>>> If you do want to go cheap, then there are a few things to consider.
>>>>> Ignitenet an Ubiquiti (although I don't think their radios are actually
>>>>> shipping yet), have an extra channel at the top end of the band that can
>>>>> get a bit better range, which the Mikrotiks can't (legally) use... but
>>>>> that's not really going to make a lot of difference at that distance
>>>>> anyway. Ignitenet is the only one with an SFP port, if that matters, and
>>>>> they also have a radio that's capable of 2.5gbps, instead of only 1gpbs...
>>>>> they're also the most expensive of the cheap options. Mikrotik uses a beam
>>>>> forming antenna, so they're about 10x easier to aim then the 
>>>>> Ignitenets
>>>>> (I believe Ubiquiti does as well, but I haven't used their radios yet).
>>>>>
>>>>> None of the cheap 60ghz radios are true full duplex radios, but I
>>>>> think they're all capable of delivering a full gig in each direction at 
>>>>> the
>>>>> same time.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you don't want cheap, but don't want to deal with 80ghz licensing
>>>>> (which is pretty cheap and simple, but it is another thing that has to be
>>>>> done), then Siklu 60ghz would probably be a good option. Or you could just
>>>>> stick with AF24HD, which will certainly do the job, but considering what
>>>>> they cost, it makes more sense to me to just go with 80ghz at that
>>>>> distance. You could also go with Mimosa B24 for 24ghz, but they're half
>>>>> duplex radios, and I don't think that they can handle a full 2gbps
>>>>> aggregate.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 11:09 AM dave  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I guess it depends on the 9s you want.
>>>>>> Cheaper is not always better

Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex

[Darin Steffl]

Yes the 4800 model.

Contact Ken Ruppel over there for more details and he'll get everyone setup
with that pricing. I bought a siklu 8010 with the wispa pricing at the end
if 2019 for $6100 which was the best deal at that time. But the aviat
pricing at $5k is the best I've seen for true carrier grade radios today.

When we need more of these links, we'll probably lean towards aviat for
that pricing. That is unless siklu decides to price match as I prefer to
choose one vendor and stick with them if possible to keep thing simple and
make it easy to spare if necessary.

On Wed, Feb 26, 2020, 8:05 AM Josh Baird  wrote:

> Yes - this is the WTM4800.
>
> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:53 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> That is an insane value proposition over the AF24HD.
>>
>> Which specific radio, the 10G single band 4800?
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> --
>> *From: *"Darin Steffl" 
>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>> *Sent: *Tuesday, February 25, 2020 9:29:10 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex
>>
>> The best deal right now is Aviat 10Gbps full duplex for about $5k with
>> dishes and everything.
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 8:24 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>
>>> Good choice Lewis!
>>>
>>> We have a dozen of them and they are rock solid and fast!  Been really
>>> amazed during rain events (heavy mountain downpours) that they keep on
>>> keepin on!!
>>>
>>> -Sean
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 6:27 PM Lewis Bergman 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks everyone. I think we'll give the 80G Siklu a shot.
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 12:00 PM Mathew Howard 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> At that distance, rain fade shouldn't be a problem with 60ghz, so it
>>>>> really comes down to hardware reliability, and budget, and specific
>>>>> requirements.
>>>>>
>>>>> If the project isn't cost sensitive, and you want the best you can
>>>>> get, then just go with 80ghz... there basically is no cheap junk for that
>>>>> band, so just pick your favorite vendor and buy what they have.
>>>>> If you do want to go cheap, then there are a few things to consider.
>>>>> Ignitenet an Ubiquiti (although I don't think their radios are actually
>>>>> shipping yet), have an extra channel at the top end of the band that can
>>>>> get a bit better range, which the Mikrotiks can't (legally) use... but
>>>>> that's not really going to make a lot of difference at that distance
>>>>> anyway. Ignitenet is the only one with an SFP port, if that matters, and
>>>>> they also have a radio that's capable of 2.5gbps, instead of only 1gpbs...
>>>>> they're also the most expensive of the cheap options. Mikrotik uses a beam
>>>>> forming antenna, so they're about 10x easier to aim then the 
>>>>> Ignitenets
>>>>> (I believe Ubiquiti does as well, but I haven't used their radios yet).
>>>>>
>>>>> None of the cheap 60ghz radios are true full duplex radios, but I
>>>>> think they're all capable of delivering a full gig in each direction at 
>>>>> the
>>>>> same time.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you don't want cheap, but don't want to deal with 80ghz licensing
>>>>> (which is pretty cheap and simple, but it is another thing that has to be
>>>>> done), then Siklu 60ghz would probably be a good option. Or you could just
>>>>> stick with AF24HD, which will certainly do the job, but considering what
>>>>> they cost, it makes more sense to me to just go with 80ghz at that
>>>>> distance. You coul

Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex

[Josh Baird]

Yes - this is the WTM4800.

On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:53 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> That is an insane value proposition over the AF24HD.
>
> Which specific radio, the 10G single band 4800?
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
> *From: *"Darin Steffl" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Tuesday, February 25, 2020 9:29:10 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex
>
> The best deal right now is Aviat 10Gbps full duplex for about $5k with
> dishes and everything.
>
> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 8:24 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>
>> Good choice Lewis!
>>
>> We have a dozen of them and they are rock solid and fast!  Been really
>> amazed during rain events (heavy mountain downpours) that they keep on
>> keepin on!!
>>
>> -Sean
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 6:27 PM Lewis Bergman 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks everyone. I think we'll give the 80G Siklu a shot.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 12:00 PM Mathew Howard 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> At that distance, rain fade shouldn't be a problem with 60ghz, so it
>>>> really comes down to hardware reliability, and budget, and specific
>>>> requirements.
>>>>
>>>> If the project isn't cost sensitive, and you want the best you can get,
>>>> then just go with 80ghz... there basically is no cheap junk for that band,
>>>> so just pick your favorite vendor and buy what they have.
>>>> If you do want to go cheap, then there are a few things to consider.
>>>> Ignitenet an Ubiquiti (although I don't think their radios are actually
>>>> shipping yet), have an extra channel at the top end of the band that can
>>>> get a bit better range, which the Mikrotiks can't (legally) use... but
>>>> that's not really going to make a lot of difference at that distance
>>>> anyway. Ignitenet is the only one with an SFP port, if that matters, and
>>>> they also have a radio that's capable of 2.5gbps, instead of only 1gpbs...
>>>> they're also the most expensive of the cheap options. Mikrotik uses a beam
>>>> forming antenna, so they're about 10x easier to aim then the Ignitenets
>>>> (I believe Ubiquiti does as well, but I haven't used their radios yet).
>>>>
>>>> None of the cheap 60ghz radios are true full duplex radios, but I think
>>>> they're all capable of delivering a full gig in each direction at the same
>>>> time.
>>>>
>>>> If you don't want cheap, but don't want to deal with 80ghz licensing
>>>> (which is pretty cheap and simple, but it is another thing that has to be
>>>> done), then Siklu 60ghz would probably be a good option. Or you could just
>>>> stick with AF24HD, which will certainly do the job, but considering what
>>>> they cost, it makes more sense to me to just go with 80ghz at that
>>>> distance. You could also go with Mimosa B24 for 24ghz, but they're half
>>>> duplex radios, and I don't think that they can handle a full 2gbps
>>>> aggregate.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 11:09 AM dave  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I guess it depends on the 9s you want.
>>>>> Cheaper is not always better for consistency.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2/24/20 8:36 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> No way I would consider AF24HD for this.  You can get 80ghz links for
>>>>> less that do MUCH more throughput (10Gbps).
>>>>>
>>>>> Vendors in this space include Bridgewave, Siklu and Aviat.  Aviat
>>>>> probably gives you the best bang for your buck.  Cambium has a new mmWave
>>>>> product, but I don't know anything about it.
>>>>>
>>>

Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex

[Mike Hammett]

That is an insane value proposition over the AF24HD. 


Which specific radio, the 10G single band 4800? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Darin Steffl"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 9:29:10 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex 


The best deal right now is Aviat 10Gbps full duplex for about $5k with dishes 
and everything. 


On Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 8:24 PM Sean Heskett < af...@zirkel.us > wrote: 




Good choice Lewis! 


We have a dozen of them and they are rock solid and fast! Been really amazed 
during rain events (heavy mountain downpours) that they keep on keepin on!! 


-Sean 





On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 6:27 PM Lewis Bergman < lewis.berg...@gmail.com > 
wrote: 



Thanks everyone. I think we'll give the 80G Siklu a shot. 


On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 12:00 PM Mathew Howard < mhoward...@gmail.com > wrote: 




At that distance, rain fade shouldn't be a problem with 60ghz, so it really 
comes down to hardware reliability, and budget, and specific requirements. 



If the project isn't cost sensitive, and you want the best you can get, then 
just go with 80ghz... there basically is no cheap junk for that band, so just 
pick your favorite vendor and buy what they have. 

If you do want to go cheap, then there are a few things to consider. Ignitenet 
an Ubiquiti (although I don't think their radios are actually shipping yet), 
have an extra channel at the top end of the band that can get a bit better 
range, which the Mikrotiks can't (legally) use... but that's not really going 
to make a lot of difference at that distance anyway. Ignitenet is the only one 
with an SFP port, if that matters, and they also have a radio that's capable of 
2.5gbps, instead of only 1gpbs... they're also the most expensive of the cheap 
options. Mikrotik uses a beam forming antenna, so they're about 10x easier 
to aim then the Ignitenets (I believe Ubiquiti does as well, but I haven't used 
their radios yet). 



None of the cheap 60ghz radios are true full duplex radios, but I think they're 
all capable of delivering a full gig in each direction at the same time. 


If you don't want cheap, but don't want to deal with 80ghz licensing (which is 
pretty cheap and simple, but it is another thing that has to be done), then 
Siklu 60ghz would probably be a good option. Or you could just stick with 
AF24HD, which will certainly do the job, but considering what they cost, it 
makes more sense to me to just go with 80ghz at that distance. You could also 
go with Mimosa B24 for 24ghz, but they're half duplex radios, and I don't think 
that they can handle a full 2gbps aggregate. 





On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 11:09 AM dave < dmilho...@wletc.com > wrote: 



I guess it depends on the 9s you want. 
Cheaper is not always better for consistency. 





On 2/24/20 8:36 AM, Josh Baird wrote: 



No way I would consider AF24HD for this. You can get 80ghz links for less that 
do MUCH more throughput (10Gbps). 


Vendors in this space include Bridgewave, Siklu and Aviat. Aviat probably gives 
you the best bang for your buck. Cambium has a new mmWave product, but I don't 
know anything about it. 



Josh 


On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 9:31 AM dave < dmilho...@wletc.com > wrote: 



Not sure which product mentioned but the PTP550 unlicensed will take all of 
your 5g spectrum and 
there is the ptp850E 




On 2/24/20 8:27 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote: 



What are the current recommendations for something like this. I see Cambium has 
something that looks like it will work but their product selector returns no 
matches . 


Ubiquiti has the 24HD. 


Anything else I should be aware of? 
-- 


Lewis Bergman 



-- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 






-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 


-- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 





-- 


Lewis Bergman 
325-439-0533 Cell -- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 


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Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex

[Ken Hohhof]

Aviat sells direct via their web store.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Lewis Bergman
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 8:32 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex

 

I don't know anyone that sells Aviat. 

 

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 8:30 PM Darin Steffl mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com> > wrote:

The best deal right now is Aviat 10Gbps full duplex for about $5k with dishes 
and everything. 

 

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 8:24 PM Sean Heskett mailto:af...@zirkel.us> > wrote:

Good choice Lewis!

 

We have a dozen of them and they are rock solid and fast!  Been really amazed 
during rain events (heavy mountain downpours) that they keep on keepin on!!

 

-Sean

 

 

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 6:27 PM Lewis Bergman mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Thanks everyone. I think we'll give the 80G Siklu a shot.

 

On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 12:00 PM Mathew Howard mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com> > wrote:

At that distance, rain fade shouldn't be a problem with 60ghz, so it really 
comes down to hardware reliability, and budget, and specific requirements. 

 

If the project isn't cost sensitive, and you want the best you can get, then 
just go with 80ghz... there basically is no cheap junk for that band, so just 
pick your favorite vendor and buy what they have. 

If you do want to go cheap, then there are a few things to consider. Ignitenet 
an Ubiquiti (although I don't think their radios are actually shipping yet), 
have an extra channel at the top end of the band that can get a bit better 
range, which the Mikrotiks can't (legally) use... but that's not really going 
to make a lot of difference at that distance anyway. Ignitenet is the only one 
with an SFP port, if that matters, and they also have a radio that's capable of 
2.5gbps, instead of only 1gpbs... they're also the most expensive of the cheap 
options. Mikrotik uses a beam forming antenna, so they're about 10x easier 
to aim then the Ignitenets (I believe Ubiquiti does as well, but I haven't used 
their radios yet). 

 

None of the cheap 60ghz radios are true full duplex radios, but I think they're 
all capable of delivering a full gig in each direction at the same time.

 

If you don't want cheap, but don't want to deal with 80ghz licensing (which is 
pretty cheap and simple, but it is another thing that has to be done), then 
Siklu 60ghz would probably be a good option. Or you could just stick with 
AF24HD, which will certainly do the job, but considering what they cost, it 
makes more sense to me to just go with 80ghz at that distance. You could also 
go with Mimosa B24 for 24ghz, but they're half duplex radios, and I don't think 
that they can handle a full 2gbps aggregate.

 

 

On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 11:09 AM dave mailto:dmilho...@wletc.com> > wrote:

I guess it depends on the 9s you want. 
Cheaper is not always better for consistency. 






On 2/24/20 8:36 AM, Josh Baird wrote:

No way I would consider AF24HD for this.  You can get 80ghz links for less that 
do MUCH more throughput (10Gbps). 

 

Vendors in this space include Bridgewave, Siklu and Aviat.  Aviat probably 
gives you the best bang for your buck.  Cambium has a new mmWave product, but I 
don't know anything about it.

 

Josh

 

On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 9:31 AM dave mailto:dmilho...@wletc.com> > wrote:

Not sure which product mentioned but the PTP550 unlicensed will take all of 
your 5g spectrum and
there is the ptp850E




On 2/24/20 8:27 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:

What are the current recommendations for something like this. I see Cambium has 
something that looks like it will work but their product selector returns no 
matches . 

 

Ubiquiti has the 24HD.

 

Anything else I should be aware of?
-- 

Lewis Bergman

 

 

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

 

 

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-- 

Lewis Bergman

325-439-0533 Cell

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Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex

[Mathew Howard]

Aviat only sells direct

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 8:32 PM Lewis Bergman 
wrote:

> I don't know anyone that sells Aviat.
>
> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 8:30 PM Darin Steffl 
> wrote:
>
>> The best deal right now is Aviat 10Gbps full duplex for about $5k with
>> dishes and everything.
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 8:24 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>
>>> Good choice Lewis!
>>>
>>> We have a dozen of them and they are rock solid and fast!  Been really
>>> amazed during rain events (heavy mountain downpours) that they keep on
>>> keepin on!!
>>>
>>> -Sean
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 6:27 PM Lewis Bergman 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Thanks everyone. I think we'll give the 80G Siklu a shot.

 On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 12:00 PM Mathew Howard 
 wrote:

> At that distance, rain fade shouldn't be a problem with 60ghz, so it
> really comes down to hardware reliability, and budget, and specific
> requirements.
>
> If the project isn't cost sensitive, and you want the best you can
> get, then just go with 80ghz... there basically is no cheap junk for that
> band, so just pick your favorite vendor and buy what they have.
> If you do want to go cheap, then there are a few things to consider.
> Ignitenet an Ubiquiti (although I don't think their radios are actually
> shipping yet), have an extra channel at the top end of the band that can
> get a bit better range, which the Mikrotiks can't (legally) use... but
> that's not really going to make a lot of difference at that distance
> anyway. Ignitenet is the only one with an SFP port, if that matters, and
> they also have a radio that's capable of 2.5gbps, instead of only 1gpbs...
> they're also the most expensive of the cheap options. Mikrotik uses a beam
> forming antenna, so they're about 10x easier to aim then the 
> Ignitenets
> (I believe Ubiquiti does as well, but I haven't used their radios yet).
>
> None of the cheap 60ghz radios are true full duplex radios, but I
> think they're all capable of delivering a full gig in each direction at 
> the
> same time.
>
> If you don't want cheap, but don't want to deal with 80ghz licensing
> (which is pretty cheap and simple, but it is another thing that has to be
> done), then Siklu 60ghz would probably be a good option. Or you could just
> stick with AF24HD, which will certainly do the job, but considering what
> they cost, it makes more sense to me to just go with 80ghz at that
> distance. You could also go with Mimosa B24 for 24ghz, but they're half
> duplex radios, and I don't think that they can handle a full 2gbps
> aggregate.
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 11:09 AM dave  wrote:
>
>> I guess it depends on the 9s you want.
>> Cheaper is not always better for consistency.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2/24/20 8:36 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
>>
>> No way I would consider AF24HD for this.  You can get 80ghz links for
>> less that do MUCH more throughput (10Gbps).
>>
>> Vendors in this space include Bridgewave, Siklu and Aviat.  Aviat
>> probably gives you the best bang for your buck.  Cambium has a new mmWave
>> product, but I don't know anything about it.
>>
>> Josh
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 9:31 AM dave  wrote:
>>
>>> Not sure which product mentioned but the PTP550 unlicensed will take
>>> all of your 5g spectrum and
>>> there is the ptp850E
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/24/20 8:27 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>>>
>>> What are the current recommendations for something like this. I see
>>> Cambium has something that looks like it will work but their product
>>> selector returns no matches .
>>>
>>> Ubiquiti has the 24HD.
>>>
>>> Anything else I should be aware of?
>>> --
>>> Lewis Bergman
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


 --
 Lewis Bergman
 325-439-0533 Cell
 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
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Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex

[Lewis Bergman]

I don't know anyone that sells Aviat.

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 8:30 PM Darin Steffl  wrote:

> The best deal right now is Aviat 10Gbps full duplex for about $5k with
> dishes and everything.
>
> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 8:24 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>
>> Good choice Lewis!
>>
>> We have a dozen of them and they are rock solid and fast!  Been really
>> amazed during rain events (heavy mountain downpours) that they keep on
>> keepin on!!
>>
>> -Sean
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 6:27 PM Lewis Bergman 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks everyone. I think we'll give the 80G Siklu a shot.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 12:00 PM Mathew Howard 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 At that distance, rain fade shouldn't be a problem with 60ghz, so it
 really comes down to hardware reliability, and budget, and specific
 requirements.

 If the project isn't cost sensitive, and you want the best you can get,
 then just go with 80ghz... there basically is no cheap junk for that band,
 so just pick your favorite vendor and buy what they have.
 If you do want to go cheap, then there are a few things to consider.
 Ignitenet an Ubiquiti (although I don't think their radios are actually
 shipping yet), have an extra channel at the top end of the band that can
 get a bit better range, which the Mikrotiks can't (legally) use... but
 that's not really going to make a lot of difference at that distance
 anyway. Ignitenet is the only one with an SFP port, if that matters, and
 they also have a radio that's capable of 2.5gbps, instead of only 1gpbs...
 they're also the most expensive of the cheap options. Mikrotik uses a beam
 forming antenna, so they're about 10x easier to aim then the Ignitenets
 (I believe Ubiquiti does as well, but I haven't used their radios yet).

 None of the cheap 60ghz radios are true full duplex radios, but I think
 they're all capable of delivering a full gig in each direction at the same
 time.

 If you don't want cheap, but don't want to deal with 80ghz licensing
 (which is pretty cheap and simple, but it is another thing that has to be
 done), then Siklu 60ghz would probably be a good option. Or you could just
 stick with AF24HD, which will certainly do the job, but considering what
 they cost, it makes more sense to me to just go with 80ghz at that
 distance. You could also go with Mimosa B24 for 24ghz, but they're half
 duplex radios, and I don't think that they can handle a full 2gbps
 aggregate.


 On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 11:09 AM dave  wrote:

> I guess it depends on the 9s you want.
> Cheaper is not always better for consistency.
>
>
>
> On 2/24/20 8:36 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
>
> No way I would consider AF24HD for this.  You can get 80ghz links for
> less that do MUCH more throughput (10Gbps).
>
> Vendors in this space include Bridgewave, Siklu and Aviat.  Aviat
> probably gives you the best bang for your buck.  Cambium has a new mmWave
> product, but I don't know anything about it.
>
> Josh
>
> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 9:31 AM dave  wrote:
>
>> Not sure which product mentioned but the PTP550 unlicensed will take
>> all of your 5g spectrum and
>> there is the ptp850E
>>
>>
>> On 2/24/20 8:27 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>>
>> What are the current recommendations for something like this. I see
>> Cambium has something that looks like it will work but their product
>> selector returns no matches .
>>
>> Ubiquiti has the 24HD.
>>
>> Anything else I should be aware of?
>> --
>> Lewis Bergman
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Lewis Bergman
>>> 325-439-0533 Cell
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
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Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex

[Darin Steffl]

The best deal right now is Aviat 10Gbps full duplex for about $5k with
dishes and everything.

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 8:24 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:

> Good choice Lewis!
>
> We have a dozen of them and they are rock solid and fast!  Been really
> amazed during rain events (heavy mountain downpours) that they keep on
> keepin on!!
>
> -Sean
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 6:27 PM Lewis Bergman 
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks everyone. I think we'll give the 80G Siklu a shot.
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 12:00 PM Mathew Howard 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> At that distance, rain fade shouldn't be a problem with 60ghz, so it
>>> really comes down to hardware reliability, and budget, and specific
>>> requirements.
>>>
>>> If the project isn't cost sensitive, and you want the best you can get,
>>> then just go with 80ghz... there basically is no cheap junk for that band,
>>> so just pick your favorite vendor and buy what they have.
>>> If you do want to go cheap, then there are a few things to consider.
>>> Ignitenet an Ubiquiti (although I don't think their radios are actually
>>> shipping yet), have an extra channel at the top end of the band that can
>>> get a bit better range, which the Mikrotiks can't (legally) use... but
>>> that's not really going to make a lot of difference at that distance
>>> anyway. Ignitenet is the only one with an SFP port, if that matters, and
>>> they also have a radio that's capable of 2.5gbps, instead of only 1gpbs...
>>> they're also the most expensive of the cheap options. Mikrotik uses a beam
>>> forming antenna, so they're about 10x easier to aim then the Ignitenets
>>> (I believe Ubiquiti does as well, but I haven't used their radios yet).
>>>
>>> None of the cheap 60ghz radios are true full duplex radios, but I think
>>> they're all capable of delivering a full gig in each direction at the same
>>> time.
>>>
>>> If you don't want cheap, but don't want to deal with 80ghz licensing
>>> (which is pretty cheap and simple, but it is another thing that has to be
>>> done), then Siklu 60ghz would probably be a good option. Or you could just
>>> stick with AF24HD, which will certainly do the job, but considering what
>>> they cost, it makes more sense to me to just go with 80ghz at that
>>> distance. You could also go with Mimosa B24 for 24ghz, but they're half
>>> duplex radios, and I don't think that they can handle a full 2gbps
>>> aggregate.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 11:09 AM dave  wrote:
>>>
 I guess it depends on the 9s you want.
 Cheaper is not always better for consistency.



 On 2/24/20 8:36 AM, Josh Baird wrote:

 No way I would consider AF24HD for this.  You can get 80ghz links for
 less that do MUCH more throughput (10Gbps).

 Vendors in this space include Bridgewave, Siklu and Aviat.  Aviat
 probably gives you the best bang for your buck.  Cambium has a new mmWave
 product, but I don't know anything about it.

 Josh

 On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 9:31 AM dave  wrote:

> Not sure which product mentioned but the PTP550 unlicensed will take
> all of your 5g spectrum and
> there is the ptp850E
>
>
> On 2/24/20 8:27 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>
> What are the current recommendations for something like this. I see
> Cambium has something that looks like it will work but their product
> selector returns no matches .
>
> Ubiquiti has the 24HD.
>
> Anything else I should be aware of?
> --
> Lewis Bergman
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Lewis Bergman
>> 325-439-0533 Cell
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
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> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex

[Sean Heskett]

Good choice Lewis!

We have a dozen of them and they are rock solid and fast!  Been really
amazed during rain events (heavy mountain downpours) that they keep on
keepin on!!

-Sean


On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 6:27 PM Lewis Bergman 
wrote:

> Thanks everyone. I think we'll give the 80G Siklu a shot.
>
> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 12:00 PM Mathew Howard 
> wrote:
>
>> At that distance, rain fade shouldn't be a problem with 60ghz, so it
>> really comes down to hardware reliability, and budget, and specific
>> requirements.
>>
>> If the project isn't cost sensitive, and you want the best you can get,
>> then just go with 80ghz... there basically is no cheap junk for that band,
>> so just pick your favorite vendor and buy what they have.
>> If you do want to go cheap, then there are a few things to consider.
>> Ignitenet an Ubiquiti (although I don't think their radios are actually
>> shipping yet), have an extra channel at the top end of the band that can
>> get a bit better range, which the Mikrotiks can't (legally) use... but
>> that's not really going to make a lot of difference at that distance
>> anyway. Ignitenet is the only one with an SFP port, if that matters, and
>> they also have a radio that's capable of 2.5gbps, instead of only 1gpbs...
>> they're also the most expensive of the cheap options. Mikrotik uses a beam
>> forming antenna, so they're about 10x easier to aim then the Ignitenets
>> (I believe Ubiquiti does as well, but I haven't used their radios yet).
>>
>> None of the cheap 60ghz radios are true full duplex radios, but I think
>> they're all capable of delivering a full gig in each direction at the same
>> time.
>>
>> If you don't want cheap, but don't want to deal with 80ghz licensing
>> (which is pretty cheap and simple, but it is another thing that has to be
>> done), then Siklu 60ghz would probably be a good option. Or you could just
>> stick with AF24HD, which will certainly do the job, but considering what
>> they cost, it makes more sense to me to just go with 80ghz at that
>> distance. You could also go with Mimosa B24 for 24ghz, but they're half
>> duplex radios, and I don't think that they can handle a full 2gbps
>> aggregate.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 11:09 AM dave  wrote:
>>
>>> I guess it depends on the 9s you want.
>>> Cheaper is not always better for consistency.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/24/20 8:36 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
>>>
>>> No way I would consider AF24HD for this.  You can get 80ghz links for
>>> less that do MUCH more throughput (10Gbps).
>>>
>>> Vendors in this space include Bridgewave, Siklu and Aviat.  Aviat
>>> probably gives you the best bang for your buck.  Cambium has a new mmWave
>>> product, but I don't know anything about it.
>>>
>>> Josh
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 9:31 AM dave  wrote:
>>>
 Not sure which product mentioned but the PTP550 unlicensed will take
 all of your 5g spectrum and
 there is the ptp850E


 On 2/24/20 8:27 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:

 What are the current recommendations for something like this. I see
 Cambium has something that looks like it will work but their product
 selector returns no matches .

 Ubiquiti has the 24HD.

 Anything else I should be aware of?
 --
 Lewis Bergman


 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Lewis Bergman
> 325-439-0533 Cell
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex

[Lewis Bergman]

Thanks everyone. I think we'll give the 80G Siklu a shot.

On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 12:00 PM Mathew Howard  wrote:

> At that distance, rain fade shouldn't be a problem with 60ghz, so it
> really comes down to hardware reliability, and budget, and specific
> requirements.
>
> If the project isn't cost sensitive, and you want the best you can get,
> then just go with 80ghz... there basically is no cheap junk for that band,
> so just pick your favorite vendor and buy what they have.
> If you do want to go cheap, then there are a few things to consider.
> Ignitenet an Ubiquiti (although I don't think their radios are actually
> shipping yet), have an extra channel at the top end of the band that can
> get a bit better range, which the Mikrotiks can't (legally) use... but
> that's not really going to make a lot of difference at that distance
> anyway. Ignitenet is the only one with an SFP port, if that matters, and
> they also have a radio that's capable of 2.5gbps, instead of only 1gpbs...
> they're also the most expensive of the cheap options. Mikrotik uses a beam
> forming antenna, so they're about 10x easier to aim then the Ignitenets
> (I believe Ubiquiti does as well, but I haven't used their radios yet).
>
> None of the cheap 60ghz radios are true full duplex radios, but I think
> they're all capable of delivering a full gig in each direction at the same
> time.
>
> If you don't want cheap, but don't want to deal with 80ghz licensing
> (which is pretty cheap and simple, but it is another thing that has to be
> done), then Siklu 60ghz would probably be a good option. Or you could just
> stick with AF24HD, which will certainly do the job, but considering what
> they cost, it makes more sense to me to just go with 80ghz at that
> distance. You could also go with Mimosa B24 for 24ghz, but they're half
> duplex radios, and I don't think that they can handle a full 2gbps
> aggregate.
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 11:09 AM dave  wrote:
>
>> I guess it depends on the 9s you want.
>> Cheaper is not always better for consistency.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2/24/20 8:36 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
>>
>> No way I would consider AF24HD for this.  You can get 80ghz links for
>> less that do MUCH more throughput (10Gbps).
>>
>> Vendors in this space include Bridgewave, Siklu and Aviat.  Aviat
>> probably gives you the best bang for your buck.  Cambium has a new mmWave
>> product, but I don't know anything about it.
>>
>> Josh
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 9:31 AM dave  wrote:
>>
>>> Not sure which product mentioned but the PTP550 unlicensed will take all
>>> of your 5g spectrum and
>>> there is the ptp850E
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/24/20 8:27 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>>>
>>> What are the current recommendations for something like this. I see
>>> Cambium has something that looks like it will work but their product
>>> selector returns no matches .
>>>
>>> Ubiquiti has the 24HD.
>>>
>>> Anything else I should be aware of?
>>> --
>>> Lewis Bergman
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
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325-439-0533 Cell
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Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex

[Mathew Howard]

At that distance, rain fade shouldn't be a problem with 60ghz, so it really
comes down to hardware reliability, and budget, and specific requirements.

If the project isn't cost sensitive, and you want the best you can get,
then just go with 80ghz... there basically is no cheap junk for that band,
so just pick your favorite vendor and buy what they have.
If you do want to go cheap, then there are a few things to consider.
Ignitenet an Ubiquiti (although I don't think their radios are actually
shipping yet), have an extra channel at the top end of the band that can
get a bit better range, which the Mikrotiks can't (legally) use... but
that's not really going to make a lot of difference at that distance
anyway. Ignitenet is the only one with an SFP port, if that matters, and
they also have a radio that's capable of 2.5gbps, instead of only 1gpbs...
they're also the most expensive of the cheap options. Mikrotik uses a beam
forming antenna, so they're about 10x easier to aim then the Ignitenets
(I believe Ubiquiti does as well, but I haven't used their radios yet).

None of the cheap 60ghz radios are true full duplex radios, but I think
they're all capable of delivering a full gig in each direction at the same
time.

If you don't want cheap, but don't want to deal with 80ghz licensing (which
is pretty cheap and simple, but it is another thing that has to be done),
then Siklu 60ghz would probably be a good option. Or you could just stick
with AF24HD, which will certainly do the job, but considering what they
cost, it makes more sense to me to just go with 80ghz at that distance. You
could also go with Mimosa B24 for 24ghz, but they're half duplex radios,
and I don't think that they can handle a full 2gbps aggregate.


On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 11:09 AM dave  wrote:

> I guess it depends on the 9s you want.
> Cheaper is not always better for consistency.
>
>
>
> On 2/24/20 8:36 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
>
> No way I would consider AF24HD for this.  You can get 80ghz links for less
> that do MUCH more throughput (10Gbps).
>
> Vendors in this space include Bridgewave, Siklu and Aviat.  Aviat probably
> gives you the best bang for your buck.  Cambium has a new mmWave product,
> but I don't know anything about it.
>
> Josh
>
> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 9:31 AM dave  wrote:
>
>> Not sure which product mentioned but the PTP550 unlicensed will take all
>> of your 5g spectrum and
>> there is the ptp850E
>>
>>
>> On 2/24/20 8:27 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>>
>> What are the current recommendations for something like this. I see
>> Cambium has something that looks like it will work but their product
>> selector returns no matches .
>>
>> Ubiquiti has the 24HD.
>>
>> Anything else I should be aware of?
>> --
>> Lewis Bergman
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex

[dave]

I guess it depends on the 9s you want.
Cheaper is not always better for consistency.



On 2/24/20 8:36 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
No way I would consider AF24HD for this.  You can get 80ghz links for 
less that do MUCH more throughput (10Gbps).


Vendors in this space include Bridgewave, Siklu and Aviat. Aviat 
probably gives you the best bang for your buck. Cambium has a new 
mmWave product, but I don't know anything about it.


Josh

On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 9:31 AM dave > wrote:


Not sure which product mentioned but the PTP550 unlicensed will
take all of your 5g spectrum and
there is the ptp850E


On 2/24/20 8:27 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:

What are the current recommendations for something like this. I
see Cambium has something that looks like it will work but
their product selector returns no matches .

Ubiquiti has the 24HD.

Anything else I should be aware of?
-- 
Lewis Bergman




-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




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Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex

[Darin Steffl]

It comes down to carrier grade or best effort requirements and your
tolerance for problems.

Cheap and probably good include ignitenet, Mikrotik, ubnt.

Carrier grade set and forget in 80ghz includes siklu, aviat, bridgewave and
cambium/ceragon.



On Mon, Feb 24, 2020, 10:50 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> I'd look at Mikrotik or IgniteNet 60 GHz products.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
> *From: *"Lewis Bergman" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Monday, February 24, 2020 8:27:59 AM
> *Subject: *[AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex
>
> What are the current recommendations for something like this. I see
> Cambium has something that looks like it will work but their product
> selector returns no matches .
>
> Ubiquiti has the 24HD.
>
> Anything else I should be aware of?
> --
> Lewis Bergman
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
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> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex

[Mike Hammett]

I'd look at Mikrotik or IgniteNet 60 GHz products. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Lewis Bergman"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2020 8:27:59 AM 
Subject: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex 


What are the current recommendations for something like this. I see Cambium has 
something that looks like it will work but their product selector returns no 
matches . 


Ubiquiti has the 24HD. 


Anything else I should be aware of? 
-- 


Lewis Bergman 
-- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 

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Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex

[Josh Baird]

Ubiquiti also has cheap 60ghz options.  Haven't used them (yet).

On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 11:34 AM Mathew Howard  wrote:

> I would use 80ghz... probably Siklu.
>
> If you want to do it cheap, 60ghz should be fine at that distance too.
> IgniteNet and Mikrotik 60ghz have both worked well for us, Siklu is
> probably better, but also far more costly.
>
> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 9:22 AM Dennis Burgess via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> .6km use a Wireless Wire Dish Kit, we have them in stock.  60 Ghz will
>> give you 1 gig full duplex without issues, under 400 bucks I belive.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *[image: LTI-Full_175px]*
>>
>>
>> *Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE,
>> MTCINE, MTCSE, HE IPv6 Sage, Cambium ePMP Certified *
>>
>> Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
>>
>> *Link Technologies, Inc* -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>>
>> *Office*: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net
>>
>> Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Lewis Bergman
>> *Sent:* Monday, February 24, 2020 8:28 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex
>>
>>
>>
>> What are the current recommendations for something like this. I see
>> Cambium has something that looks like it will work but their product
>> selector returns no matches .
>>
>>
>>
>> Ubiquiti has the 24HD.
>>
>>
>>
>> Anything else I should be aware of?
>> --
>>
>> Lewis Bergman
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex

[Mathew Howard]

I would use 80ghz... probably Siklu.

If you want to do it cheap, 60ghz should be fine at that distance too.
IgniteNet and Mikrotik 60ghz have both worked well for us, Siklu is
probably better, but also far more costly.

On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 9:22 AM Dennis Burgess via AF 
wrote:

> .6km use a Wireless Wire Dish Kit, we have them in stock.  60 Ghz will
> give you 1 gig full duplex without issues, under 400 bucks I belive.
>
>
>
>
>
> *[image: LTI-Full_175px]*
>
>
> *Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE,
> MTCINE, MTCSE, HE IPv6 Sage, Cambium ePMP Certified *
>
> Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
>
> *Link Technologies, Inc* -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>
> *Office*: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net
>
> Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Lewis Bergman
> *Sent:* Monday, February 24, 2020 8:28 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex
>
>
>
> What are the current recommendations for something like this. I see
> Cambium has something that looks like it will work but their product
> selector returns no matches .
>
>
>
> Ubiquiti has the 24HD.
>
>
>
> Anything else I should be aware of?
> --
>
> Lewis Bergman
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex

[Dennis Burgess via AF]

.6km use a Wireless Wire Dish Kit, we have them in stock.  60 Ghz will give you 
1 gig full duplex without issues, under 400 bucks I belive.


[LTI-Full_175px]
Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCINE, MTCSE, HE IPv6 Sage, Cambium ePMP Certified
Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
Office: 314-735-0270  Website: 
http://www.linktechs.net<http://www.linktechs.net/>
Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com

From: AF  On Behalf Of Lewis Bergman
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2020 8:28 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex

What are the current recommendations for something like this. I see Cambium has 
something that looks like it will work but their product selector returns no 
matches .

Ubiquiti has the 24HD.

Anything else I should be aware of?
--
Lewis Bergman
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex

[Josh Baird]

No way I would consider AF24HD for this.  You can get 80ghz links for less
that do MUCH more throughput (10Gbps).

Vendors in this space include Bridgewave, Siklu and Aviat.  Aviat probably
gives you the best bang for your buck.  Cambium has a new mmWave product,
but I don't know anything about it.

Josh

On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 9:31 AM dave  wrote:

> Not sure which product mentioned but the PTP550 unlicensed will take all
> of your 5g spectrum and
> there is the ptp850E
>
>
> On 2/24/20 8:27 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>
> What are the current recommendations for something like this. I see
> Cambium has something that looks like it will work but their product
> selector returns no matches .
>
> Ubiquiti has the 24HD.
>
> Anything else I should be aware of?
> --
> Lewis Bergman
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex

[Mike Meluskey]

SIAE 80HDX is working well for us.  Up to 10Gbps full duplex.

On 24 Feb 2020, at 10:27, Lewis Bergman wrote:

> What are the current recommendations for something like this. I see Cambium
> has something that looks like it will work but their product selector
> returns no matches .
>
> Ubiquiti has the 24HD.
>
> Anything else I should be aware of?
> -- 
> Lewis Bergman
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex

[dave]

Not sure which product mentioned but the PTP550 unlicensed will take all 
of your 5g spectrum and

there is the ptp850E


On 2/24/20 8:27 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
What are the current recommendations for something like this. I see 
Cambium has something that looks like it will work but their product 
selector returns no matches .


Ubiquiti has the 24HD.

Anything else I should be aware of?
--
Lewis Bergman



-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

[AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex

[Lewis Bergman]

What are the current recommendations for something like this. I see Cambium
has something that looks like it will work but their product selector
returns no matches .

Ubiquiti has the 24HD.

Anything else I should be aware of?
-- 
Lewis Bergman
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com