Re: [AFMUG] Centurylink/Level3 Bandwidth

[Mitch Koep]

Another Company to run from as fast as you can is

Puro Broadband

Karl Koepke

Mitch


On 2/2/2019 12:34 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
PSC, if they think they have jurisdiction over the service, is 
generally predisposed to help the customer fight the ILEC if they 
think there is unfairness.  And it is free.

*From:* Jeremy
*Sent:* Saturday, February 2, 2019 9:53 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Centurylink/Level3 Bandwidth
I think the fact that the sales teams are still using the same excuses 
in an attempt to sign ISPs on this plan opens up a great defense case 
for a lawsuit for those who have been forcefully disconnected, if 
someone had the money and time to do it.  However, lawsuits suck, and 
the telcos have way more money than we do.
On Sat, Feb 2, 2019 at 9:34 AM Erich Kaiser 
 wrote:


+1


On Sat, Feb 2, 2019 at 10:14 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

1) Contracts are only as good as the money you are willing to
spend suing the other party.  I have literally had a big telco
say go ahead and sue us, we have lots of lawyers.

2) It seems standard practice to raise the price above what
the contract says via random fees, the belief seems to be that
fees are an act of god not covered by contracts.  And if you
don't agree, refer to #1.  I remember one provider adding a
fairly substantial property tax recovery fee mid contract.  I
asked what property this referred to, and of course they
basically laughed at me.  They would invent all sorts of
bizarre fees just to get around the price stated in the
contract, these new fees would just appear on the latest
monthly bill with no explanation.

Salespeople of course will do anything to make quota and
commissions, especially since they will probably be gone by
the time your contract comes up for renewal.  They are
"agents" of the company with the power to make commitments on
behalf of the company, but again, see #1.


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Saturday, February 2, 2019 9:23 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centurylink/Level3 Bandwidth

We are in a business of contracts.  And if it says they an
change the contract, that's there for a reason..

On 2/2/19 7:07 AM, Seth Mattinen wrote:
> On 2/1/19 4:24 PM, Jeremy wrote:
>> For the record, the 'sales team' told him that he could
just put the
>> connections in the name of the building owners instead of
in the name
>> of the companysound familiar?  Every single location
received the
>> same certified letter.  I am not messing around.  I would
run as fast
>> as I could from that deal.and I did.
>
> Yeah I would totally call BS on that. Obviously sales just
wanted
> someone to sign on the dotted line and they've got theirs,
the rest
> doesn't matter.
>

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Re: [AFMUG] Centurylink/Level3 Bandwidth

[chuck]

PSC, if they think they have jurisdiction over the service, is generally 
predisposed to help the customer fight the ILEC if they think there is 
unfairness.  And it is free.  

From: Jeremy 
Sent: Saturday, February 2, 2019 9:53 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centurylink/Level3 Bandwidth

I think the fact that the sales teams are still using the same excuses in an 
attempt to sign ISPs on this plan opens up a great defense case for a lawsuit 
for those who have been forcefully disconnected, if someone had the money and 
time to do it.  However, lawsuits suck, and the telcos have way more money than 
we do.


On Sat, Feb 2, 2019 at 9:34 AM Erich Kaiser  wrote:

  +1 








  On Sat, Feb 2, 2019 at 10:14 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

1) Contracts are only as good as the money you are willing to spend suing 
the other party.  I have literally had a big telco say go ahead and sue us, we 
have lots of lawyers.

2) It seems standard practice to raise the price above what the contract 
says via random fees, the belief seems to be that fees are an act of god not 
covered by contracts.  And if you don't agree, refer to #1.  I remember one 
provider adding a fairly substantial property tax recovery fee mid contract.  I 
asked what property this referred to, and of course they basically laughed at 
me.  They would invent all sorts of bizarre fees just to get around the price 
stated in the contract, these new fees would just appear on the latest monthly 
bill with no explanation.

Salespeople of course will do anything to make quota and commissions, 
especially since they will probably be gone by the time your contract comes up 
for renewal.  They are "agents" of the company with the power to make 
commitments on behalf of the company, but again, see #1.


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Saturday, February 2, 2019 9:23 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centurylink/Level3 Bandwidth

We are in a business of contracts.  And if it says they an change the 
contract, that's there for a reason..

On 2/2/19 7:07 AM, Seth Mattinen wrote:
> On 2/1/19 4:24 PM, Jeremy wrote:
>> For the record, the 'sales team' told him that he could just put the 
>> connections in the name of the building owners instead of in the name 
>> of the companysound familiar?  Every single location received the 
>> same certified letter.  I am not messing around.  I would run as fast 
>> as I could from that deal.and I did.
> 
> Yeah I would totally call BS on that. Obviously sales just wanted 
> someone to sign on the dotted line and they've got theirs, the rest 
> doesn't matter.
> 

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Re: [AFMUG] Centurylink/Level3 Bandwidth

[Robert Andrews]

Spreading this info far and wide is probably the best we can do.  If it 
gets back to CenturyLink management that the customers are on to 
dishonest practices and that it's hitting the bottom line, that's the 
best weapon.  And I don't mean just ISP's it should be a consideration 
of _any_ of their customers that contracts to them just are sales tools 
that are one-sided.


Robert

On 02/02/2019 08:53 AM, Jeremy wrote:
I think the fact that the sales teams are still using the same excuses 
in an attempt to sign ISPs on this plan opens up a great defense case 
for a lawsuit for those who have been forcefully disconnected, if 
someone had the money and time to do it.  However, lawsuits suck, and 
the telcos have way more money than we do.


On Sat, Feb 2, 2019 at 9:34 AM Erich Kaiser <mailto:er...@northcentraltower.com>> wrote:


+1







On Sat, Feb 2, 2019 at 10:14 AM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:

1) Contracts are only as good as the money you are willing to
spend suing the other party.  I have literally had a big telco
say go ahead and sue us, we have lots of lawyers.

2) It seems standard practice to raise the price above what the
contract says via random fees, the belief seems to be that fees
are an act of god not covered by contracts.  And if you don't
agree, refer to #1.  I remember one provider adding a fairly
substantial property tax recovery fee mid contract.  I asked
what property this referred to, and of course they basically
laughed at me.  They would invent all sorts of bizarre fees just
to get around the price stated in the contract, these new fees
would just appear on the latest monthly bill with no explanation.

Salespeople of course will do anything to make quota and
commissions, especially since they will probably be gone by the
time your contract comes up for renewal.  They are "agents" of
the company with the power to make commitments on behalf of the
company, but again, see #1.


-Original Message-
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Saturday, February 2, 2019 9:23 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centurylink/Level3 Bandwidth

We are in a business of contracts.  And if it says they an
change the contract, that's there for a reason..

On 2/2/19 7:07 AM, Seth Mattinen wrote:
 > On 2/1/19 4:24 PM, Jeremy wrote:
 >> For the record, the 'sales team' told him that he could just
put the
 >> connections in the name of the building owners instead of in
the name
 >> of the companysound familiar?  Every single location
received the
 >> same certified letter.  I am not messing around.  I would
run as fast
 >> as I could from that deal.and I did.
 >
 > Yeah I would totally call BS on that. Obviously sales just
wanted
 > someone to sign on the dotted line and they've got theirs,
the rest
 > doesn't matter.
 >

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Re: [AFMUG] Centurylink/Level3 Bandwidth

[Jeremy]

I think the fact that the sales teams are still using the same excuses in
an attempt to sign ISPs on this plan opens up a great defense case for a
lawsuit for those who have been forcefully disconnected, if someone had the
money and time to do it.  However, lawsuits suck, and the telcos have way
more money than we do.

On Sat, Feb 2, 2019 at 9:34 AM Erich Kaiser 
wrote:

> +1
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 2, 2019 at 10:14 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> 1) Contracts are only as good as the money you are willing to spend suing
>> the other party.  I have literally had a big telco say go ahead and sue us,
>> we have lots of lawyers.
>>
>> 2) It seems standard practice to raise the price above what the contract
>> says via random fees, the belief seems to be that fees are an act of god
>> not covered by contracts.  And if you don't agree, refer to #1.  I remember
>> one provider adding a fairly substantial property tax recovery fee mid
>> contract.  I asked what property this referred to, and of course they
>> basically laughed at me.  They would invent all sorts of bizarre fees just
>> to get around the price stated in the contract, these new fees would just
>> appear on the latest monthly bill with no explanation.
>>
>> Salespeople of course will do anything to make quota and commissions,
>> especially since they will probably be gone by the time your contract comes
>> up for renewal.  They are "agents" of the company with the power to make
>> commitments on behalf of the company, but again, see #1.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Robert
>> Sent: Saturday, February 2, 2019 9:23 AM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centurylink/Level3 Bandwidth
>>
>> We are in a business of contracts.  And if it says they an change the
>> contract, that's there for a reason..
>>
>> On 2/2/19 7:07 AM, Seth Mattinen wrote:
>> > On 2/1/19 4:24 PM, Jeremy wrote:
>> >> For the record, the 'sales team' told him that he could just put the
>> >> connections in the name of the building owners instead of in the name
>> >> of the companysound familiar?  Every single location received the
>> >> same certified letter.  I am not messing around.  I would run as fast
>> >> as I could from that deal.and I did.
>> >
>> > Yeah I would totally call BS on that. Obviously sales just wanted
>> > someone to sign on the dotted line and they've got theirs, the rest
>> > doesn't matter.
>> >
>>
>> --
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>>
>>
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Centurylink/Level3 Bandwidth

[Erich Kaiser]

+1







On Sat, Feb 2, 2019 at 10:14 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> 1) Contracts are only as good as the money you are willing to spend suing
> the other party.  I have literally had a big telco say go ahead and sue us,
> we have lots of lawyers.
>
> 2) It seems standard practice to raise the price above what the contract
> says via random fees, the belief seems to be that fees are an act of god
> not covered by contracts.  And if you don't agree, refer to #1.  I remember
> one provider adding a fairly substantial property tax recovery fee mid
> contract.  I asked what property this referred to, and of course they
> basically laughed at me.  They would invent all sorts of bizarre fees just
> to get around the price stated in the contract, these new fees would just
> appear on the latest monthly bill with no explanation.
>
> Salespeople of course will do anything to make quota and commissions,
> especially since they will probably be gone by the time your contract comes
> up for renewal.  They are "agents" of the company with the power to make
> commitments on behalf of the company, but again, see #1.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Robert
> Sent: Saturday, February 2, 2019 9:23 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centurylink/Level3 Bandwidth
>
> We are in a business of contracts.  And if it says they an change the
> contract, that's there for a reason..
>
> On 2/2/19 7:07 AM, Seth Mattinen wrote:
> > On 2/1/19 4:24 PM, Jeremy wrote:
> >> For the record, the 'sales team' told him that he could just put the
> >> connections in the name of the building owners instead of in the name
> >> of the companysound familiar?  Every single location received the
> >> same certified letter.  I am not messing around.  I would run as fast
> >> as I could from that deal.and I did.
> >
> > Yeah I would totally call BS on that. Obviously sales just wanted
> > someone to sign on the dotted line and they've got theirs, the rest
> > doesn't matter.
> >
>
> --
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>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Centurylink/Level3 Bandwidth

[Mike Hammett]

I wonder if the PSC would be interested in telecom\Internet disputes instead of 
your own attorneys. 

A) Not directly your money. 
B) They're much more likely to take them seriously. 





- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Ken Hohhof"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Saturday, February 2, 2019 10:12:51 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centurylink/Level3 Bandwidth 

1) Contracts are only as good as the money you are willing to spend suing the 
other party. I have literally had a big telco say go ahead and sue us, we have 
lots of lawyers. 

2) It seems standard practice to raise the price above what the contract says 
via random fees, the belief seems to be that fees are an act of god not covered 
by contracts. And if you don't agree, refer to #1. I remember one provider 
adding a fairly substantial property tax recovery fee mid contract. I asked 
what property this referred to, and of course they basically laughed at me. 
They would invent all sorts of bizarre fees just to get around the price stated 
in the contract, these new fees would just appear on the latest monthly bill 
with no explanation. 

Salespeople of course will do anything to make quota and commissions, 
especially since they will probably be gone by the time your contract comes up 
for renewal. They are "agents" of the company with the power to make 
commitments on behalf of the company, but again, see #1. 


-Original Message- 
From: AF  On Behalf Of Robert 
Sent: Saturday, February 2, 2019 9:23 AM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centurylink/Level3 Bandwidth 

We are in a business of contracts. And if it says they an change the contract, 
that's there for a reason.. 

On 2/2/19 7:07 AM, Seth Mattinen wrote: 
> On 2/1/19 4:24 PM, Jeremy wrote: 
>> For the record, the 'sales team' told him that he could just put the 
>> connections in the name of the building owners instead of in the name 
>> of the companysound familiar? Every single location received the 
>> same certified letter. I am not messing around. I would run as fast 
>> as I could from that deal.and I did. 
> 
> Yeah I would totally call BS on that. Obviously sales just wanted 
> someone to sign on the dotted line and they've got theirs, the rest 
> doesn't matter. 
> 

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Re: [AFMUG] Centurylink/Level3 Bandwidth

[Ken Hohhof]

1) Contracts are only as good as the money you are willing to spend suing the 
other party.  I have literally had a big telco say go ahead and sue us, we have 
lots of lawyers.

2) It seems standard practice to raise the price above what the contract says 
via random fees, the belief seems to be that fees are an act of god not covered 
by contracts.  And if you don't agree, refer to #1.  I remember one provider 
adding a fairly substantial property tax recovery fee mid contract.  I asked 
what property this referred to, and of course they basically laughed at me.  
They would invent all sorts of bizarre fees just to get around the price stated 
in the contract, these new fees would just appear on the latest monthly bill 
with no explanation.

Salespeople of course will do anything to make quota and commissions, 
especially since they will probably be gone by the time your contract comes up 
for renewal.  They are "agents" of the company with the power to make 
commitments on behalf of the company, but again, see #1.


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Saturday, February 2, 2019 9:23 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centurylink/Level3 Bandwidth

We are in a business of contracts.  And if it says they an change the contract, 
that's there for a reason..

On 2/2/19 7:07 AM, Seth Mattinen wrote:
> On 2/1/19 4:24 PM, Jeremy wrote:
>> For the record, the 'sales team' told him that he could just put the 
>> connections in the name of the building owners instead of in the name 
>> of the companysound familiar?  Every single location received the 
>> same certified letter.  I am not messing around.  I would run as fast 
>> as I could from that deal.and I did.
> 
> Yeah I would totally call BS on that. Obviously sales just wanted 
> someone to sign on the dotted line and they've got theirs, the rest 
> doesn't matter.
> 

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Re: [AFMUG] Centurylink/Level3 Bandwidth

[Robert]

We are in a business of contracts.  And if it says they an change the 
contract, that's there for a reason..


On 2/2/19 7:07 AM, Seth Mattinen wrote:

On 2/1/19 4:24 PM, Jeremy wrote:
For the record, the 'sales team' told him that he could just put the 
connections in the name of the building owners instead of in the name 
of the companysound familiar?  Every single location received the 
same certified letter.  I am not messing around.  I would run as fast 
as I could from that deal.and I did.


Yeah I would totally call BS on that. Obviously sales just wanted 
someone to sign on the dotted line and they've got theirs, the rest 
doesn't matter.




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Re: [AFMUG] Centurylink/Level3 Bandwidth

[Seth Mattinen]

On 2/1/19 4:24 PM, Jeremy wrote:
For the record, the 'sales team' told him that he could just put the 
connections in the name of the building owners instead of in the name of 
the companysound familiar?  Every single location received the same 
certified letter.  I am not messing around.  I would run as fast as I 
could from that deal.and I did.


Yeah I would totally call BS on that. Obviously sales just wanted 
someone to sign on the dotted line and they've got theirs, the rest 
doesn't matter.


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Re: [AFMUG] Centurylink/Level3 Bandwidth

[Jeremy]

For the record, the 'sales team' told him that he could just put the
connections in the name of the building owners instead of in the name of
the companysound familiar?  Every single location received the same
certified letter.  I am not messing around.  I would run as fast as I could
from that deal.and I did.

On Fri, Feb 1, 2019 at 12:33 PM Seth Mattinen  wrote:

> On 2/1/19 10:28, Jeremy wrote:
> > Yeah, the sales team told my colleague and I the same thing.  Fiber+
> > allowed resale at first, but then they changed the terms (the terms
> > allow for this as well).  I tried to get them to red line the agreement
> > and force them to take that out and the deal fell apart.  The sales team
> > will do anything to make a deal, but if they decide to pull your card
> > over terms you are screwed.  Is it worth risking your business?  I am
> > sure that you all remember Doug Clark?  He is the one they shut down at
> > like four locations where he had service  They even notified the PSC in
> > advance that he was in violation of their TOS (which they changed after
> > the fact), so that he had no recourse.  I would steer clear of that
> > Fiber+ plan, and those sales reps that are trying to get you to sign
> > anyway if it were me.  Ask for a different sales rep, get a hold of the
> > national wholesale department.
>
>
> As far as what is or isn't resale goes, signing up for IP service and
> using it to feed a POP ("fiber to all our pops!") and it's *not* layer 2
> transport is less ambiguous that building your own network with AS where
> it's just another BGP speaking transit port.
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Centurylink/Level3 Bandwidth

[Seth Mattinen]

On 2/1/19 10:28, Jeremy wrote:
Yeah, the sales team told my colleague and I the same thing.  Fiber+ 
allowed resale at first, but then they changed the terms (the terms 
allow for this as well).  I tried to get them to red line the agreement 
and force them to take that out and the deal fell apart.  The sales team 
will do anything to make a deal, but if they decide to pull your card 
over terms you are screwed.  Is it worth risking your business?  I am 
sure that you all remember Doug Clark?  He is the one they shut down at 
like four locations where he had service  They even notified the PSC in 
advance that he was in violation of their TOS (which they changed after 
the fact), so that he had no recourse.  I would steer clear of that 
Fiber+ plan, and those sales reps that are trying to get you to sign 
anyway if it were me.  Ask for a different sales rep, get a hold of the 
national wholesale department.



As far as what is or isn't resale goes, signing up for IP service and 
using it to feed a POP ("fiber to all our pops!") and it's *not* layer 2 
transport is less ambiguous that building your own network with AS where 
it's just another BGP speaking transit port.



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Re: [AFMUG] Centurylink/Level3 Bandwidth

[Jeremy]

Yeah, the sales team told my colleague and I the same thing.  Fiber+
allowed resale at first, but then they changed the terms (the terms allow
for this as well).  I tried to get them to red line the agreement and force
them to take that out and the deal fell apart.  The sales team will do
anything to make a deal, but if they decide to pull your card over terms
you are screwed.  Is it worth risking your business?  I am sure that you
all remember Doug Clark?  He is the one they shut down at like four
locations where he had service  They even notified the PSC in advance that
he was in violation of their TOS (which they changed after the fact), so
that he had no recourse.  I would steer clear of that Fiber+ plan, and
those sales reps that are trying to get you to sign anyway if it were me.
Ask for a different sales rep, get a hold of the national wholesale
department.

On Fri, Feb 1, 2019 at 10:28 AM Nate Burke  wrote:

> Thanks for all the replies on/off list.  The Sales dept is telling us that
> they have other ISP's using the fiber+ product with no issues, they've even
> given us some references.  Although nobody that I've seen on this list.  CL
> is not the ilec here, but they're claiming our building already has fiber,
> which it does, from AT the ilec, Comcast, and Verizon (cell site).  So
> we're not sure if they're just getting a fiber or EPL from AT  There are
> a lot of things that sales is telling us that aren't making sense yet.
> We'll follow up with the references they gave us to see what they say.
>
> Nate
>
>
> On 2/1/2019 9:14 AM, Jeremy wrote:
>
> The fiber+ program does not allow resale.  You have to buy from the
> wholesale department.  We were on it and had to switch.  I also know a
> local WISP who received cease & desist letters and they shut down all of
> his connections.  He lost hundreds of customers over it.
>
> On Fri, Feb 1, 2019 at 7:06 AM Carl Peterson 
> wrote:
>
>> Second the taxes and fees.  We went with CL on a 10G wave.  Even had them
>> "estimate" the taxes and fees.  Got the bill and the fees were something
>> like 4X what they estimated.
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 6:25 PM Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] <
>> j...@brazoswifi.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Lots of taxes and fees.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S8 Active, an AT 5G Evolution smartphone
>>>
>>>
>>>  Original message 
>>> From: Nate Burke 
>>> Date: 1/31/19 5:27 PM (GMT-06:00)
>>> To: Animal Farm 
>>> Subject: [AFMUG] Centurylink/Level3 Bandwidth
>>>
>>> Anyone using Centurylink branded Fiber+ Internet?  They gave us a very
>>> good Quote for 1gig connection loop and port, (as in almost 'too good to
>>> be true'),  so we're wondering if anyone has real world experience with
>>> them.  I believe the actual product is called Fiber+.  They're saying we
>>> can do BGP to AS209, and there are no extra charges for anything other
>>> than a little bit of tax.  The price is making us a little wary that
>>> they're not telling us something.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Carl Peterson
>>
>> *PORT NETWORKS*
>>
>> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553
>>
>> Baltimore, MD 21202
>>
>> (410) 637-3707
>> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Centurylink/Level3 Bandwidth

[Nate Burke]

Thanks for all the replies on/off list.  The Sales dept is telling us 
that they have other ISP's using the fiber+ product with no issues, 
they've even given us some references.  Although nobody that I've seen 
on this list.  CL is not the ilec here, but they're claiming our 
building already has fiber, which it does, from AT the ilec, Comcast, 
and Verizon (cell site).  So we're not sure if they're just getting a 
fiber or EPL from AT  There are a lot of things that sales is telling 
us that aren't making sense yet.  We'll follow up with the references 
they gave us to see what they say.


Nate


On 2/1/2019 9:14 AM, Jeremy wrote:
The fiber+ program does not allow resale.  You have to buy from the 
wholesale department.  We were on it and had to switch.  I also know a 
local WISP who received cease & desist letters and they shut down all 
of his connections.  He lost hundreds of customers over it.


On Fri, Feb 1, 2019 at 7:06 AM Carl Peterson 
mailto:cpeter...@portnetworks.com>> wrote:


Second the taxes and fees.  We went with CL on a 10G wave.  Even
had them "estimate" the taxes and fees. Got the bill and the fees
were something like 4X what they estimated.

On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 6:25 PM Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]
mailto:j...@brazoswifi.com>> wrote:

Lots of taxes and fees.



Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S8 Active, an AT 5G Evolution
smartphone


 Original message 
From: Nate Burke mailto:n...@blastcomm.com>>
Date: 1/31/19 5:27 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: Animal Farm mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
    Subject: [AFMUG] Centurylink/Level3 Bandwidth

Anyone using Centurylink branded Fiber+ Internet?  They gave
us a very
good Quote for 1gig connection loop and port, (as in almost
'too good to
be true'),  so we're wondering if anyone has real world
experience with
them.  I believe the actual product is called Fiber+.  They're
saying we
can do BGP to AS209, and there are no extra charges for
anything other
than a little bit of tax.  The price is making us a little
wary that
they're not telling us something.



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*PORT NETWORKS*

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707

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Re: [AFMUG] Centurylink/Level3 Bandwidth

[dave]

We use Fusion and have been very happy with performance and service at 2 
of our edge sites.



On 1/31/19 5:26 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
Anyone using Centurylink branded Fiber+ Internet?  They gave us a very 
good Quote for 1gig connection loop and port, (as in almost 'too good 
to be true'),  so we're wondering if anyone has real world experience 
with them.  I believe the actual product is called Fiber+.  They're 
saying we can do BGP to AS209, and there are no extra charges for 
anything other than a little bit of tax.  The price is making us a 
little wary that they're not telling us something.





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Re: [AFMUG] Centurylink/Level3 Bandwidth

[dave]

Yeah.. Not cool

From either side


On 2/1/19 9:14 AM, Jeremy wrote:
The fiber+ program does not allow resale.  You have to buy from the 
wholesale department.  We were on it and had to switch.  I also know a 
local WISP who received cease & desist letters and they shut down all 
of his connections.  He lost hundreds of customers over it.


On Fri, Feb 1, 2019 at 7:06 AM Carl Peterson 
mailto:cpeter...@portnetworks.com>> wrote:


Second the taxes and fees.  We went with CL on a 10G wave.  Even
had them "estimate" the taxes and fees. Got the bill and the fees
were something like 4X what they estimated.

On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 6:25 PM Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]
mailto:j...@brazoswifi.com>> wrote:

Lots of taxes and fees.



Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S8 Active, an AT 5G Evolution
smartphone


 Original message 
From: Nate Burke mailto:n...@blastcomm.com>>
Date: 1/31/19 5:27 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: Animal Farm mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
    Subject: [AFMUG] Centurylink/Level3 Bandwidth

Anyone using Centurylink branded Fiber+ Internet?  They gave
us a very
good Quote for 1gig connection loop and port, (as in almost
'too good to
be true'),  so we're wondering if anyone has real world
experience with
them.  I believe the actual product is called Fiber+.  They're
saying we
can do BGP to AS209, and there are no extra charges for
anything other
than a little bit of tax.  The price is making us a little
wary that
they're not telling us something.



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-- 


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*PORT NETWORKS*

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707

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Re: [AFMUG] Centurylink/Level3 Bandwidth

[Jeremy]

The fiber+ program does not allow resale.  You have to buy from the
wholesale department.  We were on it and had to switch.  I also know a
local WISP who received cease & desist letters and they shut down all of
his connections.  He lost hundreds of customers over it.

On Fri, Feb 1, 2019 at 7:06 AM Carl Peterson 
wrote:

> Second the taxes and fees.  We went with CL on a 10G wave.  Even had them
> "estimate" the taxes and fees.  Got the bill and the fees were something
> like 4X what they estimated.
>
> On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 6:25 PM Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] <
> j...@brazoswifi.com> wrote:
>
>> Lots of taxes and fees.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S8 Active, an AT 5G Evolution smartphone
>>
>>
>>  Original message 
>> From: Nate Burke 
>> Date: 1/31/19 5:27 PM (GMT-06:00)
>> To: Animal Farm 
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Centurylink/Level3 Bandwidth
>>
>> Anyone using Centurylink branded Fiber+ Internet?  They gave us a very
>> good Quote for 1gig connection loop and port, (as in almost 'too good to
>> be true'),  so we're wondering if anyone has real world experience with
>> them.  I believe the actual product is called Fiber+.  They're saying we
>> can do BGP to AS209, and there are no extra charges for anything other
>> than a little bit of tax.  The price is making us a little wary that
>> they're not telling us something.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Carl Peterson
>
> *PORT NETWORKS*
>
> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553
>
> Baltimore, MD 21202
>
> (410) 637-3707
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Centurylink/Level3 Bandwidth

[Carl Peterson]

Second the taxes and fees.  We went with CL on a 10G wave.  Even had them
"estimate" the taxes and fees.  Got the bill and the fees were something
like 4X what they estimated.

On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 6:25 PM Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] 
wrote:

> Lots of taxes and fees.
>
>
>
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S8 Active, an AT 5G Evolution smartphone
>
>
>  Original message 
> From: Nate Burke 
> Date: 1/31/19 5:27 PM (GMT-06:00)
> To: Animal Farm 
> Subject: [AFMUG] Centurylink/Level3 Bandwidth
>
> Anyone using Centurylink branded Fiber+ Internet?  They gave us a very
> good Quote for 1gig connection loop and port, (as in almost 'too good to
> be true'),  so we're wondering if anyone has real world experience with
> them.  I believe the actual product is called Fiber+.  They're saying we
> can do BGP to AS209, and there are no extra charges for anything other
> than a little bit of tax.  The price is making us a little wary that
> they're not telling us something.
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 

Carl Peterson

*PORT NETWORKS*

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707
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Re: [AFMUG] Centurylink/Level3 Bandwidth

[Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]]

Lots of taxes and fees.



Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S8 Active, an AT 5G Evolution smartphone


 Original message 
From: Nate Burke 
Date: 1/31/19 5:27 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: [AFMUG] Centurylink/Level3 Bandwidth

Anyone using Centurylink branded Fiber+ Internet?  They gave us a very
good Quote for 1gig connection loop and port, (as in almost 'too good to
be true'),  so we're wondering if anyone has real world experience with
them.  I believe the actual product is called Fiber+.  They're saying we
can do BGP to AS209, and there are no extra charges for anything other
than a little bit of tax.  The price is making us a little wary that
they're not telling us something.



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Re: [AFMUG] Centurylink/Level3 Bandwidth

[TJ Trout]

I highly doubt they can actually turn up a BGP session on that service.
Having said that, we have a really good CL contact if you want to see if he
can price it any better hit me off list.

On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 3:31 PM Darin Steffl 
wrote:

> Fiber+ is not their wholesale or enterprise service. It runs on GPON so it
> is shared bandwidth, not guaranteed like a PtP Fiber connection. There is
> also no SLA on that product and it's not supposed to be used for resale
> like you would do with a WISP. If you can live without those things and the
> risk of them finding out it's being used by a WISP, it should be a nice way
> to have an extra Gig in bandwidth for about $350 a month.
>
> On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 5:27 PM Nate Burke  wrote:
>
>> Anyone using Centurylink branded Fiber+ Internet?  They gave us a very
>> good Quote for 1gig connection loop and port, (as in almost 'too good to
>> be true'),  so we're wondering if anyone has real world experience with
>> them.  I believe the actual product is called Fiber+.  They're saying we
>> can do BGP to AS209, and there are no extra charges for anything other
>> than a little bit of tax.  The price is making us a little wary that
>> they're not telling us something.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Darin Steffl
> Minnesota WiFi
> www.mnwifi.com
> 507-634-WiFi
>  Like us on Facebook
> 
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Re: [AFMUG] Centurylink/Level3 Bandwidth

[Mike Hammett]

What confuses me is that CenturyLink isn't the incumbent anywhere near Nate, so 
why would they have GPON? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Darin Steffl"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2019 5:29:42 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centurylink/Level3 Bandwidth 


Fiber+ is not their wholesale or enterprise service. It runs on GPON so it is 
shared bandwidth, not guaranteed like a PtP Fiber connection. There is also no 
SLA on that product and it's not supposed to be used for resale like you would 
do with a WISP. If you can live without those things and the risk of them 
finding out it's being used by a WISP, it should be a nice way to have an extra 
Gig in bandwidth for about $350 a month. 


On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 5:27 PM Nate Burke < n...@blastcomm.com > wrote: 


Anyone using Centurylink branded Fiber+ Internet? They gave us a very 
good Quote for 1gig connection loop and port, (as in almost 'too good to 
be true'), so we're wondering if anyone has real world experience with 
them. I believe the actual product is called Fiber+. They're saying we 
can do BGP to AS209, and there are no extra charges for anything other 
than a little bit of tax. The price is making us a little wary that 
they're not telling us something. 



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Minnesota WiFi 
www.mnwifi.com 
507-634-WiFi 
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Re: [AFMUG] Centurylink/Level3 Bandwidth

[Darin Steffl]

Fiber+ is not their wholesale or enterprise service. It runs on GPON so it
is shared bandwidth, not guaranteed like a PtP Fiber connection. There is
also no SLA on that product and it's not supposed to be used for resale
like you would do with a WISP. If you can live without those things and the
risk of them finding out it's being used by a WISP, it should be a nice way
to have an extra Gig in bandwidth for about $350 a month.

On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 5:27 PM Nate Burke  wrote:

> Anyone using Centurylink branded Fiber+ Internet?  They gave us a very
> good Quote for 1gig connection loop and port, (as in almost 'too good to
> be true'),  so we're wondering if anyone has real world experience with
> them.  I believe the actual product is called Fiber+.  They're saying we
> can do BGP to AS209, and there are no extra charges for anything other
> than a little bit of tax.  The price is making us a little wary that
> they're not telling us something.
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
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Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
 Like us on Facebook

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[AFMUG] Centurylink/Level3 Bandwidth

[Nate Burke]

Anyone using Centurylink branded Fiber+ Internet?  They gave us a very 
good Quote for 1gig connection loop and port, (as in almost 'too good to 
be true'),  so we're wondering if anyone has real world experience with 
them.  I believe the actual product is called Fiber+.  They're saying we 
can do BGP to AS209, and there are no extra charges for anything other 
than a little bit of tax.  The price is making us a little wary that 
they're not telling us something.




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