Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy
The holes reduce wind resistance. bp On 6/16/2020 8:17 AM, Robert wrote: I thought the holes were so that it semi-pinched on the skin upon impact to give an "extra" kick... On 6/16/20 7:41 AM, Bill Prince wrote: Most of the teachers in grade school carried a paddle whenever we had a large gathering (like when we were in line for lunch). Some of the more aggressive teachers drilled large holes in their paddles to allow them to swing harder. I was never sure of the effectiveness of that. bp On 6/16/2020 7:35 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: I remember teachers getting into fistfights with kids in HS. Teacher was never in trouble. From: Adam Moffett Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 8:31 AM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy One thing Steve pointed out that I can attest is a very real thing right now: teachers can't touch the kids at all. Not just corporal punishment, but you can't push, pull, grab, manhandle, restrain, or anything of the sort. They can't touch the kid at all. My wife was doing before-school daycare at the elementary school (for parents who need to drop the kid of early and then get to work), and same rules applied to her. She let one of the fifth graders in on the secret that the only thing she can really do to a kid is talk sternly. She needed the bigger kid as an ally to set the tone of behavior for all the other kids. If some troubled kid went berserk the only thing she'd really be able to do is call the police. So I don't think it was about school shootings. I think they just need someone around who is allowed to do something if a kid gets out of control. On 6/16/2020 10:19 AM, Bill Prince wrote: It's all about the escalation of threat. Somebody shoots up a school, then we have to arm all the schools (what's wrong with that idea?). Give them MRAPs too. That's a good way to spend money. bp On 6/15/2020 8:11 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: When did they start having cops in schools? Never once in my K-12 days did I see a policeman in my school. I’ll have to ask my kids if they ever did. Maybe I led a privileged life. College had “campus cops” but they were kind of a joke, mostly relegated to writing parking tickets. From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Bill Prince Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 9:45 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy Not around here. That must be an Illinois thing. I left that place sometime around 1967. bp On 6/15/2020 7:42 PM, Steve Jones wrote: you ever seen a podunk meth dealers arsenal? On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 9:33 PM Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> wrote: I think one of the things they want to do is de-milit
Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy
I thought it reduced the surface area of the contact so more energy would go into less area of your butt. But the paddle was softball compared to a maple meter stick. I had a 6th grade teacher swing one on me like he was driving off of a tee. Wow did that hurt. But I did not let out a peep. From: Robert Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 9:17 AM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy I thought the holes were so that it semi-pinched on the skin upon impact to give an "extra" kick... On 6/16/20 7:41 AM, Bill Prince wrote: Most of the teachers in grade school carried a paddle whenever we had a large gathering (like when we were in line for lunch). Some of the more aggressive teachers drilled large holes in their paddles to allow them to swing harder. I was never sure of the effectiveness of that. bp On 6/16/2020 7:35 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: I remember teachers getting into fistfights with kids in HS. Teacher was never in trouble. From: Adam Moffett Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 8:31 AM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy One thing Steve pointed out that I can attest is a very real thing right now: teachers can't touch the kids at all. Not just corporal punishment, but you can't push, pull, grab, manhandle, restrain, or anything of the sort. They can't touch the kid at all. My wife was doing before-school daycare at the elementary school (for parents who need to drop the kid of early and then get to work), and same rules applied to her. She let one of the fifth graders in on the secret that the only thing she can really do to a kid is talk sternly. She needed the bigger kid as an ally to set the tone of behavior for all the other kids. If some troubled kid went berserk the only thing she'd really be able to do is call the police. So I don't think it was about school shootings. I think they just need someone around who is allowed to do something if a kid gets out of control. On 6/16/2020 10:19 AM, Bill Prince wrote: It's all about the escalation of threat. Somebody shoots up a school, then we have to arm all the schools (what's wrong with that idea?). Give them MRAPs too. That's a good way to spend money. bp On 6/15/2020 8:11 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: When did they start having cops in schools? Never once in my K-12 days did I see a policeman in my school. I’ll have to ask my kids if they ever did. Maybe I led a privileged life. College had “campus cops” but they were kind of a joke, mostly relegated to writing parking tickets. From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Bill Prince Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 9:45 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy Not around here. That must be an Illinois thing. I left that place sometime around 1967. bp On 6/15/2020 7:42 PM, Steve Jones wrote: you ever seen a podunk meth dealers arsenal? On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 9:33 PM Bill Prince wrote: I think one of the things they want to do is de-militarize the police. Local podunk PDs have no business buying million dollar MRAPs. bp On 6/15/2020 7:29 PM, Steve Jones wrote: the problem is the defund the police folks dont understand economics. there isnt enough money as it is for maintaining the police presence for the criminal side of things. taking that money and paying for a bunch of counsellors doesnt lead to having enough cops. Removing police from schools is a 1 percent thing, the other 99 percent will pull their kids out without resource officers. Mental health still will need police, they dont go to a hot environment because they dont have arrest powers if it goes downhill, and you dont want jonna the counselor having to fight the loon. They want to disarm the police. thats a big no, complete non starter. They consider the bullet proof vests to be a mechanism of intimidation, anyone who has actually had a vest do its job would never let somebody else go in without one. Maybe they try an actual wholistic approach, stop making everything illegal, and you immediately have less criminals stop overcharging for pleas, Mike flynn being an ally example I wish they would recognize. The media says if he wasnt guilty, why would he take a plea? I can find you thousands of young black men who can answer that question without skipping a beat. Get rid of plea bargains all together, make DAs actually work for their conviction rates at trial, bet you see a less burdened court and prison system right quick. Prisons cost 30-70k annually per inmate. Thats a whole lot of dough to put into those other programs, and over time that cost goes down as guards age out and dont need to be replaced because
Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy
Maybe the police should be replaced by nuns with paddles. LAW AND ORDER! From: AF On Behalf Of Robert Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 10:17 AM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy I thought the holes were so that it semi-pinched on the skin upon impact to give an "extra" kick... On 6/16/20 7:41 AM, Bill Prince wrote: Most of the teachers in grade school carried a paddle whenever we had a large gathering (like when we were in line for lunch). Some of the more aggressive teachers drilled large holes in their paddles to allow them to swing harder. I was never sure of the effectiveness of that. bp On 6/16/2020 7:35 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: I remember teachers getting into fistfights with kids in HS. Teacher was never in trouble. From: Adam Moffett Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 8:31 AM To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy One thing Steve pointed out that I can attest is a very real thing right now: teachers can't touch the kids at all. Not just corporal punishment, but you can't push, pull, grab, manhandle, restrain, or anything of the sort. They can't touch the kid at all. My wife was doing before-school daycare at the elementary school (for parents who need to drop the kid of early and then get to work), and same rules applied to her. She let one of the fifth graders in on the secret that the only thing she can really do to a kid is talk sternly. She needed the bigger kid as an ally to set the tone of behavior for all the other kids. If some troubled kid went berserk the only thing she'd really be able to do is call the police. So I don't think it was about school shootings. I think they just need someone around who is allowed to do something if a kid gets out of control. On 6/16/2020 10:19 AM, Bill Prince wrote: It's all about the escalation of threat. Somebody shoots up a school, then we have to arm all the schools (what's wrong with that idea?). Give them MRAPs too. That's a good way to spend money. bp On 6/15/2020 8:11 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: When did they start having cops in schools? Never once in my K-12 days did I see a policeman in my school. I’ll have to ask my kids if they ever did. Maybe I led a privileged life. College had “campus cops” but they were kind of a joke, mostly relegated to writing parking tickets. From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Bill Prince Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 9:45 PM To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy Not around here. That must be an Illinois thing. I left that place sometime around 1967. bp On 6/15/2020 7:42 PM, Steve Jones wrote: you ever seen a podunk meth dealers arsenal? On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 9:33 PM Bill Prince mailto:part15...@gmail.com> > wrote: I think one of the things they want to do is de-militarize the police. Local podunk PDs have no business buying million dollar MRAPs. bp On 6/15/2020 7:29 PM, Steve Jones wrote: the problem is the defund the police folks dont understand economics. there isnt enough money as it is for maintaining the police presence for the criminal side of things. taking that money and paying for a bunch of counsellors doesnt lead to having enough cops. Removing police from schools is a 1 percent thing, the other 99 percent will pull their kids out without resource officers. Mental health still will need police, they dont go to a hot environment because they dont have arrest powers if it goes downhill, and you dont want jonna the counselor having to fight the loon. They want to disarm the police. thats a big no, complete non starter. They consider the bullet proof vests to be a mechanism of intimidation, anyone who has actually had a vest do its job would never let somebody else go in without one. Maybe they try an actual wholistic approach, stop making everything illegal, and you immediately have less criminals stop overcharging for pleas, Mike flynn being an ally example I wish they would recognize. The media says if he wasnt guilty, why would he take a plea? I can find you thousands of young black men who can answer that question without skipping a beat. Get rid of plea bargains all together, make DAs actually work for their conviction rates at trial, bet you see a less burdened court and prison system right quick. Prisons cost 30-70k annually per inmate. Thats a whole lot of dough to put into those other programs, and over time that cost goes down as guards age out and dont need to be replaced because the cells are empty. defund the police is targeting a symptom of a virus and giving it an antibiotic (its the wrong treatment) On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 7:38 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote: For many people, that seems to mean stop funding the police to deal with issues like mental health,
Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy
When I was in high school, a teacher invited one of the “greasers” who was always mouthing off to go down to the school gym and put on boxing gloves to see how tough he really was. I guess that wouldn’t happen today either? But honestly the biggest punishment was to be sent to the principle’s office and call your parents. Maybe that’s where the problem lies. Today the parents would give the teacher and principle hell, rather than punish the kid. From: AF On Behalf Of Bill Prince Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 10:07 AM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy Adds kind of a personal touch. Maybe "touch" is the wrong word here? bp On 6/16/2020 7:45 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: We got to sign the paddle when we got whacked. Kinda a point of pride to have your name there. From: Bill Prince Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 8:41 AM To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy Most of the teachers in grade school carried a paddle whenever we had a large gathering (like when we were in line for lunch). Some of the more aggressive teachers drilled large holes in their paddles to allow them to swing harder. I was never sure of the effectiveness of that. bp On 6/16/2020 7:35 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: I remember teachers getting into fistfights with kids in HS. Teacher was never in trouble. From: Adam Moffett Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 8:31 AM To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy One thing Steve pointed out that I can attest is a very real thing right now: teachers can't touch the kids at all. Not just corporal punishment, but you can't push, pull, grab, manhandle, restrain, or anything of the sort. They can't touch the kid at all. My wife was doing before-school daycare at the elementary school (for parents who need to drop the kid of early and then get to work), and same rules applied to her. She let one of the fifth graders in on the secret that the only thing she can really do to a kid is talk sternly. She needed the bigger kid as an ally to set the tone of behavior for all the other kids. If some troubled kid went berserk the only thing she'd really be able to do is call the police. So I don't think it was about school shootings. I think they just need someone around who is allowed to do something if a kid gets out of control. On 6/16/2020 10:19 AM, Bill Prince wrote: It's all about the escalation of threat. Somebody shoots up a school, then we have to arm all the schools (what's wrong with that idea?). Give them MRAPs too. That's a good way to spend money. bp On 6/15/2020 8:11 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: When did they start having cops in schools? Never once in my K-12 days did I see a policeman in my school. I’ll have to ask my kids if they ever did. Maybe I led a privileged life. College had “campus cops” but they were kind of a joke, mostly relegated to writing parking tickets. From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Bill Prince Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 9:45 PM To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy Not around here. That must be an Illinois thing. I left that place sometime around 1967. bp On 6/15/2020 7:42 PM, Steve Jones wrote: you ever seen a podunk meth dealers arsenal? On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 9:33 PM Bill Prince mailto:part15...@gmail.com> > wrote: I think one of the things they want to do is de-militarize the police. Local podunk PDs have no business buying million dollar MRAPs. bp On 6/15/2020 7:29 PM, Steve Jones wrote: the problem is the defund the police folks dont understand economics. there isnt enough money as it is for maintaining the police presence for the criminal side of things. taking that money and paying for a bunch of counsellors doesnt lead to having enough cops. Removing police from schools is a 1 percent thing, the other 99 percent will pull their kids out without resource officers. Mental health still will need police, they dont go to a hot environment because they dont have arrest powers if it goes downhill, and you dont want jonna the counselor having to fight the loon. They want to disarm the police. thats a big no, complete non starter. They consider the bullet proof vests to be a mechanism of intimidation, anyone who has actually had a vest do its job would never let somebody else go in without one. Maybe they try an actual wholistic approach, stop making everything illegal, and you immediately have less criminals stop overcharging for pleas, Mike flynn being an ally example I wish they would recognize. The media says if he wasnt guilty, why would he take a plea? I can find you thousands of young black men who can answer that question without skipping a beat. Get rid of plea
Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy
I thought the holes were so that it semi-pinched on the skin upon impact to give an "extra" kick... On 6/16/20 7:41 AM, Bill Prince wrote: Most of the teachers in grade school carried a paddle whenever we had a large gathering (like when we were in line for lunch). Some of the more aggressive teachers drilled large holes in their paddles to allow them to swing harder. I was never sure of the effectiveness of that. bp On 6/16/2020 7:35 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: I remember teachers getting into fistfights with kids in HS. Teacher was never in trouble. *From:* Adam Moffett *Sent:* Tuesday, June 16, 2020 8:31 AM *To:* af@af.afmug.com *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy One thing Steve pointed out that I can attest is a very real thing right now: _teachers can't touch the kids at all_. Not just corporal punishment, but you can't push, pull, grab, manhandle, restrain, or anything of the sort. They can't touch the kid at all. My wife was doing before-school daycare at the elementary school (for parents who need to drop the kid of early and then get to work), and same rules applied to her. She let one of the fifth graders in on the secret that the only thing she can really do to a kid is talk sternly. She needed the bigger kid as an ally to set the tone of behavior for all the other kids. If some troubled kid went berserk the only thing she'd really be able to do is call the police. So I don't think it was about school shootings. I think they just need someone around who is allowed to do something if a kid gets out of control. On 6/16/2020 10:19 AM, Bill Prince wrote: It's all about the escalation of threat. Somebody shoots up a school, then we have to arm all the schools (what's wrong with that idea?). Give them MRAPs too. That's a good way to spend money. bp On 6/15/2020 8:11 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: When did they start having cops in schools? Never once in my K-12 days did I see a policeman in my school. I’ll have to ask my kids if they ever did. Maybe I led a privileged life. College had “campus cops” but they were kind of a joke, mostly relegated to writing parking tickets. *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince *Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2020 9:45 PM *To:* af@af.afmug.com *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy Not around here. That must be an Illinois thing. I left that place sometime around 1967. bp On 6/15/2020 7:42 PM, Steve Jones wrote: you ever seen a podunk meth dealers arsenal? On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 9:33 PM Bill Prince wrote: I think one of the things they want to do is de-militarize the police. Local podunk PDs have no business buying million dollar MRAPs. bp On 6/15/2020 7:29 PM, Steve Jones wrote: the problem is the defund the police folks dont understand economics. there isnt enough money as it is for maintaining the police presence for the criminal side of things. taking that money and paying for a bunch of counsellors doesnt lead to having enough cops. Removing police from schools is a 1 percent thing, the other 99 percent will pull their kids out without resource officers. Mental health still will need police, they dont go to a hot environment because they dont have arrest powers if it goes downhill, and you dont want jonna the counselor having to fight the loon. They want to disarm the police. thats a big no, complete non starter. They consider the bullet proof vests to be a mechanism of intimidation, anyone who has actually had a vest do its job would never let somebody else go in without one. Maybe they try an actual wholistic approach, stop making everything illegal, and you immediately have less criminals stop overcharging for pleas, Mike flynn being an ally example I wish they would recognize. The media says if he wasnt guilty, why would he take a plea? I can find you thousands of young black men who can answer that question without skipping a beat. Get rid of plea bargains all together, make DAs actually work for their conviction rates at trial, bet you see a less burdened court and prison system right quick. Prisons cost 30-70k annually per inmate. Thats a whole lot of dough to put into those other programs, and over time that cost goes down as guards age out and dont need to be replaced because the cells are empty. defund the police is targeting a symptom of a virus and giving it an antibiotic (its the wrong treatment) On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 7:38 PM Ken Hohhof
Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy
Don't get me wrong, I think the treatment of minorities is out of control by some segments of law enforcement. But it sounds close to getting where we are in schools is how people expect to be treated by the police. On 6/16/20 7:31 AM, Adam Moffett wrote: One thing Steve pointed out that I can attest is a very real thing right now: _teachers can't touch the kids at all_. Not just corporal punishment, but you can't push, pull, grab, manhandle, restrain, or anything of the sort. They can't touch the kid at all. My wife was doing before-school daycare at the elementary school (for parents who need to drop the kid of early and then get to work), and same rules applied to her. She let one of the fifth graders in on the secret that the only thing she can really do to a kid is talk sternly. She needed the bigger kid as an ally to set the tone of behavior for all the other kids. If some troubled kid went berserk the only thing she'd really be able to do is call the police. So I don't think it was about school shootings. I think they just need someone around who is allowed to do something if a kid gets out of control. On 6/16/2020 10:19 AM, Bill Prince wrote: It's all about the escalation of threat. Somebody shoots up a school, then we have to arm all the schools (what's wrong with that idea?). Give them MRAPs too. That's a good way to spend money. bp On 6/15/2020 8:11 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: When did they start having cops in schools? Never once in my K-12 days did I see a policeman in my school. I’ll have to ask my kids if they ever did. Maybe I led a privileged life. College had “campus cops” but they were kind of a joke, mostly relegated to writing parking tickets. *From:* AF *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince *Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2020 9:45 PM *To:* af@af.afmug.com *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy Not around here. That must be an Illinois thing. I left that place sometime around 1967. bp On 6/15/2020 7:42 PM, Steve Jones wrote: you ever seen a podunk meth dealers arsenal? On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 9:33 PM Bill Prince mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote: I think one of the things they want to do is de-militarize the police. Local podunk PDs have no business buying million dollar MRAPs. bp On 6/15/2020 7:29 PM, Steve Jones wrote: the problem is the defund the police folks dont understand economics. there isnt enough money as it is for maintaining the police presence for the criminal side of things. taking that money and paying for a bunch of counsellors doesnt lead to having enough cops. Removing police from schools is a 1 percent thing, the other 99 percent will pull their kids out without resource officers. Mental health still will need police, they dont go to a hot environment because they dont have arrest powers if it goes downhill, and you dont want jonna the counselor having to fight the loon. They want to disarm the police. thats a big no, complete non starter. They consider the bullet proof vests to be a mechanism of intimidation, anyone who has actually had a vest do its job would never let somebody else go in without one. Maybe they try an actual wholistic approach, stop making everything illegal, and you immediately have less criminals stop overcharging for pleas, Mike flynn being an ally example I wish they would recognize. The media says if he wasnt guilty, why would he take a plea? I can find you thousands of young black men who can answer that question without skipping a beat. Get rid of plea bargains all together, make DAs actually work for their conviction rates at trial, bet you see a less burdened court and prison system right quick. Prisons cost 30-70k annually per inmate. Thats a whole lot of dough to put into those other programs, and over time that cost goes down as guards age out and dont need to be replaced because the cells are empty. defund the police is targeting a symptom of a virus and giving it an antibiotic (its the wrong treatment) On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 7:38 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote: For many people, that seems to mean stop funding the police to deal with issues like mental health, homelessness, domestic disputes, street vendors, routine discipline in schools, etc., and instead use that money to fund specialists, and let the police handle murders and robberies and stuff. I had a discussion with someon
Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy
Adds kind of a personal touch. Maybe "touch" is the wrong word here? bp On 6/16/2020 7:45 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: We got to sign the paddle when we got whacked. Kinda a point of pride to have your name there. From: Bill Prince Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 8:41 AM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy Most of the teachers in grade school carried a paddle whenever we had a large gathering (like when we were in line for lunch). Some of the more aggressive teachers drilled large holes in their paddles to allow them to swing harder. I was never sure of the effectiveness of that. bp On 6/16/2020 7:35 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: I remember teachers getting into fistfights with kids in HS. Teacher was never in trouble. From: Adam Moffett Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 8:31 AM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy One thing Steve pointed out that I can attest is a very real thing right now: teachers can't touch the kids at all. Not just corporal punishment, but you can't push, pull, grab, manhandle, restrain, or anything of the sort. They can't touch the kid at all. My wife was doing before-school daycare at the elementary school (for parents who need to drop the kid of early and then get to work), and same rules applied to her. She let one of the fifth graders in on the secret that the only thing she can really do to a kid is talk sternly. She needed the bigger kid as an ally to set the tone of behavior for all the other kids. If some troubled kid went berserk the only thing she'd really be able to do is call the police. So I don't think it was about school shootings. I think they just need someone around who is allowed to do something if a kid gets out of control. On 6/16/2020 10:19 AM, Bill Prince wrote: It's all about the escalation of threat. Somebody shoots up a school, then we have to arm all the schools (what's wrong with that idea?). Give them MRAPs too. That's a good way to spend money. bp On 6/15/2020 8:11 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: When did they start having cops in schools? Never once in my K-12 days did I see a policeman in my school. I’ll have to ask my kids if they ever did. Maybe I led a privileged life. College had “campus cops” but they were kind of a joke, mostly relegated to writing parking tickets. From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Bill Prince Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 9:45 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy Not around here. That must be an Illinois thing. I left that place sometime around 1967.
Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy
We got to sign the paddle when we got whacked. Kinda a point of pride to have your name there. From: Bill Prince Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 8:41 AM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy Most of the teachers in grade school carried a paddle whenever we had a large gathering (like when we were in line for lunch). Some of the more aggressive teachers drilled large holes in their paddles to allow them to swing harder. I was never sure of the effectiveness of that. bp On 6/16/2020 7:35 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: I remember teachers getting into fistfights with kids in HS. Teacher was never in trouble. From: Adam Moffett Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 8:31 AM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy One thing Steve pointed out that I can attest is a very real thing right now: teachers can't touch the kids at all. Not just corporal punishment, but you can't push, pull, grab, manhandle, restrain, or anything of the sort. They can't touch the kid at all. My wife was doing before-school daycare at the elementary school (for parents who need to drop the kid of early and then get to work), and same rules applied to her. She let one of the fifth graders in on the secret that the only thing she can really do to a kid is talk sternly. She needed the bigger kid as an ally to set the tone of behavior for all the other kids. If some troubled kid went berserk the only thing she'd really be able to do is call the police. So I don't think it was about school shootings. I think they just need someone around who is allowed to do something if a kid gets out of control. On 6/16/2020 10:19 AM, Bill Prince wrote: It's all about the escalation of threat. Somebody shoots up a school, then we have to arm all the schools (what's wrong with that idea?). Give them MRAPs too. That's a good way to spend money. bp On 6/15/2020 8:11 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: When did they start having cops in schools? Never once in my K-12 days did I see a policeman in my school. I’ll have to ask my kids if they ever did. Maybe I led a privileged life. College had “campus cops” but they were kind of a joke, mostly relegated to writing parking tickets. From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Bill Prince Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 9:45 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy Not around here. That must be an Illinois thing. I left that place sometime around 1967. bp On 6/15/2020 7:42 PM, Steve Jones wrote: you ever seen a podunk meth dealers arsenal? On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 9:33 PM Bill Prince wrote: I think one of the things they want to do is de-militarize the police. Local podunk PDs have no business buying million dollar MRAPs. bp On 6/15/2020 7:29 PM, Steve Jones wrote: the problem is the defund the police folks dont understand economics. there isnt enough money as it is for maintaining the police presence for the criminal side of things. taking that money and paying for a bunch of counsellors doesnt lead to having enough cops. Removing police from schools is a 1 percent thing, the other 99 percent will pull their kids out without resource officers. Mental health still will need police, they dont go to a hot environment because they dont have arrest powers if it goes downhill, and you dont want jonna the counselor having to fight the loon. They want to disarm the police. thats a big no, complete non starter. They consider the bullet proof vests to be a mechanism of intimidation, anyone who has actually had a vest do its job would never let somebody else go in without one. Maybe they try an actual wholistic approach, stop making everything illegal, and you immediately have less criminals stop overcharging for pleas, Mike flynn being an ally example I wish they would recognize. The media says if he wasnt guilty, why would he take a plea? I can find you thousands of young black men who can answer that question without skipping a beat. Get rid of plea bargains all together, make DAs actually work for their conviction rates at trial, bet you see a less burdened court and prison system right quick. Prisons cost 30-70k annually per inmate. Thats a whole lot of dough to put into those other programs, and over time that cost goes down as guards age out and dont need to be replaced because the cells are empty. defund the police is targeting a symptom of a virus and giving it an antibiotic (its the wrong treatment) On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 7:38 PM Ken Hohhof wrote: For many people, that seems to mean stop funding the police to deal with issues like mental health, homelessness, domestic disputes, street vendors, routine discipline
Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tank_Man (no, Tank Man is not like Tank Girl) And there was the Hungarian Revolution of 1956. https://www.wearethemighty.com/articles/these-rebels-fought-soviet-tanks-with-dish-soap-and-jam And let’s not forget the Last Man Standing episode where Mike bought a tank. From: AF On Behalf Of Bill Prince Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 9:27 AM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy Ordinance must be involved. bp On 6/16/2020 7:20 AM, Adam Moffett wrote: A lot of us fawn over large vehicles . What's an assault vehicle? Is it like an assault hammer? On 6/16/2020 10:17 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote: Installed an 11GHz PTP link for Midland, Texas PD years ago ...they had a large military assault vehicle some officers were fawning over...felt like they were itching to use it... On Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 8:33 PM Bill Prince mailto:part15...@gmail.com> > wrote: I think one of the things they want to do is de-militarize the police. Local podunk PDs have no business buying million dollar MRAPs. bp On 6/15/2020 7:29 PM, Steve Jones wrote: the problem is the defund the police folks dont understand economics. there isnt enough money as it is for maintaining the police presence for the criminal side of things. taking that money and paying for a bunch of counsellors doesnt lead to having enough cops. Removing police from schools is a 1 percent thing, the other 99 percent will pull their kids out without resource officers. Mental health still will need police, they dont go to a hot environment because they dont have arrest powers if it goes downhill, and you dont want jonna the counselor having to fight the loon. They want to disarm the police. thats a big no, complete non starter. They consider the bullet proof vests to be a mechanism of intimidation, anyone who has actually had a vest do its job would never let somebody else go in without one. Maybe they try an actual wholistic approach, stop making everything illegal, and you immediately have less criminals stop overcharging for pleas, Mike flynn being an ally example I wish they would recognize. The media says if he wasnt guilty, why would he take a plea? I can find you thousands of young black men who can answer that question without skipping a beat. Get rid of plea bargains all together, make DAs actually work for their conviction rates at trial, bet you see a less burdened court and prison system right quick. Prisons cost 30-70k annually per inmate. Thats a whole lot of dough to put into those other programs, and over time that cost goes down as guards age out and dont need to be replaced because the cells are empty. defund the police is targeting a symptom of a virus and giving it an antibiotic (its the wrong treatment) On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 7:38 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote: For many people, that seems to mean stop funding the police to deal with issues like mental health, homelessness, domestic disputes, street vendors, routine discipline in schools, etc., and instead use that money to fund specialists, and let the police handle murders and robberies and stuff. I had a discussion with someone who is all for defund the police and I said if that’s what they mean, the term really sucks, because it conveys something totally different and many people are not going to support something that sounds like disband the police and then nobody handles murders and robberies. Rather than saying reform the police, or narrow their focus, or move some of their responsibilities to other agencies. But he said I was wrong, without really explaining why I was wrong. I think he meant we can call it what we want to, who cares if it’s unnecessarily provocative. Or maybe he really does want to disband the police. From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf Of justsumname . Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 6:14 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > Subject: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy is it just the 'news' that I'm reading or are things really going totally bathshitcrazy ?!? "de-fund the police" is just ONE thing. --- -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy
Most of the teachers in grade school carried a paddle whenever we had a large gathering (like when we were in line for lunch). Some of the more aggressive teachers drilled large holes in their paddles to allow them to swing harder. I was never sure of the effectiveness of that. bp On 6/16/2020 7:35 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: I remember teachers getting into fistfights with kids in HS. Teacher was never in trouble. From: Adam Moffett Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 8:31 AM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy One thing Steve pointed out that I can attest is a very real thing right now: teachers can't touch the kids at all. Not just corporal punishment, but you can't push, pull, grab, manhandle, restrain, or anything of the sort. They can't touch the kid at all. My wife was doing before-school daycare at the elementary school (for parents who need to drop the kid of early and then get to work), and same rules applied to her. She let one of the fifth graders in on the secret that the only thing she can really do to a kid is talk sternly. She needed the bigger kid as an ally to set the tone of behavior for all the other kids. If some troubled kid went berserk the only thing she'd really be able to do is call the police. So I don't think it was about school shootings. I think they just need someone around who is allowed to do something if a kid gets out of control. On 6/16/2020 10:19 AM, Bill Prince wrote: It's all about the escalation of threat. Somebody shoots up a school, then we have to arm all the schools (what's wrong with that idea?). Give them MRAPs too. That's a good way to spend money. bp On 6/15/2020 8:11 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: When did they start having cops in schools? Never once in my K-12 days did I see a policeman in my school. I’ll have to ask my kids if they ever did. Maybe I led a privileged life. College had “campus cops” but they were kind of a joke, mostly relegated to writing parking tickets. From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Bill Prince Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 9:45 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy Not around here. That must be an Illinois thing. I left that place sometime around 1967. bp On 6/15/2020 7:42 PM, Steve Jones wrote: you ever seen a podunk meth dealers arsenal? On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 9:33 PM Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> wrote: I think one of the things they want to do is de-militarize the police. Local podunk PDs have no business buying million dollar MRAPs. bp On 6/15/2020 7:29 PM, Steve Jones wrote: the problem is the defund the police folks dont understand economics. there isnt enough money as it is for maintaining the police presence for the crimina
Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy
I remember teachers getting into fistfights with kids in HS. Teacher was never in trouble. From: Adam Moffett Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 8:31 AM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy One thing Steve pointed out that I can attest is a very real thing right now: teachers can't touch the kids at all. Not just corporal punishment, but you can't push, pull, grab, manhandle, restrain, or anything of the sort. They can't touch the kid at all. My wife was doing before-school daycare at the elementary school (for parents who need to drop the kid of early and then get to work), and same rules applied to her. She let one of the fifth graders in on the secret that the only thing she can really do to a kid is talk sternly. She needed the bigger kid as an ally to set the tone of behavior for all the other kids. If some troubled kid went berserk the only thing she'd really be able to do is call the police. So I don't think it was about school shootings. I think they just need someone around who is allowed to do something if a kid gets out of control. On 6/16/2020 10:19 AM, Bill Prince wrote: It's all about the escalation of threat. Somebody shoots up a school, then we have to arm all the schools (what's wrong with that idea?). Give them MRAPs too. That's a good way to spend money. bp On 6/15/2020 8:11 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: When did they start having cops in schools? Never once in my K-12 days did I see a policeman in my school. I’ll have to ask my kids if they ever did. Maybe I led a privileged life. College had “campus cops” but they were kind of a joke, mostly relegated to writing parking tickets. From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Bill Prince Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 9:45 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy Not around here. That must be an Illinois thing. I left that place sometime around 1967. bp On 6/15/2020 7:42 PM, Steve Jones wrote: you ever seen a podunk meth dealers arsenal? On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 9:33 PM Bill Prince wrote: I think one of the things they want to do is de-militarize the police. Local podunk PDs have no business buying million dollar MRAPs. bp On 6/15/2020 7:29 PM, Steve Jones wrote: the problem is the defund the police folks dont understand economics. there isnt enough money as it is for maintaining the police presence for the criminal side of things. taking that money and paying for a bunch of counsellors doesnt lead to having enough cops. Removing police from schools is a 1 percent thing, the other 99 percent will pull their kids out without resource officers. Mental health still will need police, they dont go to a hot environment because they dont have arrest powers if it goes downhill, and you dont want jonna the counselor having to fight the loon. They want to disarm the police. thats a big no, complete non starter. They consider the bullet proof vests to be a mechanism of intimidation, anyone who has actually had a vest do its job would never let somebody else go in without one. Maybe they try an actual wholistic approach, stop making everything illegal, and you immediately have less criminals stop overcharging for pleas, Mike flynn being an ally example I wish they would recognize. The media says if he wasnt guilty, why would he take a plea? I can find you thousands of young black men who can answer that question without skipping a beat. Get rid of plea bargains all together, make DAs actually work for their conviction rates at trial, bet you see a less burdened court and prison system right quick. Prisons cost 30-70k annually per inmate. Thats a whole lot of dough to put into those other programs, and over time that cost goes down as guards age out and dont need to be replaced because the cells are empty. defund the police is targeting a symptom of a virus and giving it an antibiotic (its the wrong treatment) On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 7:38 PM Ken Hohhof wrote: For many people, that seems to mean stop funding the police to deal with issues like mental health, homelessness, domestic disputes, street vendors, routine discipline in schools, etc., and instead use that money to fund specialists, and let the police handle murders and robberies and stuff. I had a discussion with someone who is all for defund the police and I said if that’s what they mean, the term really sucks, because it conveys something totally different and many people are not going to support something that sounds like disband the police and then nobody handles murders and robberies. Rather than saying reform the police, or narrow their focus, or move some of their responsibilities to other agencies. But he said I was wrong
Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy
One thing Steve pointed out that I can attest is a very real thing right now: _teachers can't touch the kids at all_. Not just corporal punishment, but you can't push, pull, grab, manhandle, restrain, or anything of the sort. They can't touch the kid at all. My wife was doing before-school daycare at the elementary school (for parents who need to drop the kid of early and then get to work), and same rules applied to her. She let one of the fifth graders in on the secret that the only thing she can really do to a kid is talk sternly. She needed the bigger kid as an ally to set the tone of behavior for all the other kids. If some troubled kid went berserk the only thing she'd really be able to do is call the police. So I don't think it was about school shootings. I think they just need someone around who is allowed to do something if a kid gets out of control. On 6/16/2020 10:19 AM, Bill Prince wrote: It's all about the escalation of threat. Somebody shoots up a school, then we have to arm all the schools (what's wrong with that idea?). Give them MRAPs too. That's a good way to spend money. bp On 6/15/2020 8:11 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: When did they start having cops in schools? Never once in my K-12 days did I see a policeman in my school. I’ll have to ask my kids if they ever did. Maybe I led a privileged life. College had “campus cops” but they were kind of a joke, mostly relegated to writing parking tickets. *From:* AF *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince *Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2020 9:45 PM *To:* af@af.afmug.com *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy Not around here. That must be an Illinois thing. I left that place sometime around 1967. bp On 6/15/2020 7:42 PM, Steve Jones wrote: you ever seen a podunk meth dealers arsenal? On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 9:33 PM Bill Prince mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote: I think one of the things they want to do is de-militarize the police. Local podunk PDs have no business buying million dollar MRAPs. bp On 6/15/2020 7:29 PM, Steve Jones wrote: the problem is the defund the police folks dont understand economics. there isnt enough money as it is for maintaining the police presence for the criminal side of things. taking that money and paying for a bunch of counsellors doesnt lead to having enough cops. Removing police from schools is a 1 percent thing, the other 99 percent will pull their kids out without resource officers. Mental health still will need police, they dont go to a hot environment because they dont have arrest powers if it goes downhill, and you dont want jonna the counselor having to fight the loon. They want to disarm the police. thats a big no, complete non starter. They consider the bullet proof vests to be a mechanism of intimidation, anyone who has actually had a vest do its job would never let somebody else go in without one. Maybe they try an actual wholistic approach, stop making everything illegal, and you immediately have less criminals stop overcharging for pleas, Mike flynn being an ally example I wish they would recognize. The media says if he wasnt guilty, why would he take a plea? I can find you thousands of young black men who can answer that question without skipping a beat. Get rid of plea bargains all together, make DAs actually work for their conviction rates at trial, bet you see a less burdened court and prison system right quick. Prisons cost 30-70k annually per inmate. Thats a whole lot of dough to put into those other programs, and over time that cost goes down as guards age out and dont need to be replaced because the cells are empty. defund the police is targeting a symptom of a virus and giving it an antibiotic (its the wrong treatment) On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 7:38 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote: For many people, that seems to mean stop funding the police to deal with issues like mental health, homelessness, domestic disputes, street vendors, routine discipline in schools, etc., and instead use that money to fund specialists, and let the police handle murders and robberies and stuff. I had a discussion with someone who is all for defund the police and I said if that’s what they mean, the term really sucks, because it conveys something totally different and many people are not going to support something that sounds
Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy
ink he meant we can call
it what we want to, who cares if it’s
unnecessarily provocative. Or maybe he really
does want to disband the police.
From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com>
On Behalf Of justsumname .
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 6:14 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
<af@af.afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy
is it just the 'news'
that I'm reading or are things really going
totally bathshitcrazy ?!? "de-fund the
police" is just ONE thing.
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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy
Scary looking.
Adam Moffett wrote:
A lot of us fawn over large vehicles .
What's an assault vehicle? Is it like an assault hammer?
On 6/16/2020 10:17 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
Installed an 11GHz PTP link for Midland, Texas PD years ago ...they
had a large military assault vehicle some officers were fawning
over...felt like they were itching to use it...
On Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 8:33 PM Bill Prince <mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I think one of the things they want to do is de-militarize the
police. Local podunk PDs have no business buying million dollar
MRAPs.
bp
On 6/15/2020 7:29 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
the problem is the defund the police folks dont understand
economics. there isnt enough money as it is for maintaining the
police presence for the criminal side of things. taking that
money and paying for a bunch of counsellors doesnt lead to
having enough cops. Removing police from schools is a 1 percent
thing, the other 99 percent will pull their kids out without
resource officers. Mental health still will need police, they
dont go to a hot environment because they dont have arrest
powers if it goes downhill, and you dont want jonna the
counselor having to fight the loon.
They want to disarm the police. thats a big no, complete non
starter. They consider the bullet proof vests to be a mechanism
of intimidation, anyone who has actually had a vest do its job
would never let somebody else go in without one.
Maybe they try an actual wholistic approach, stop making
everything illegal, and you immediately have less criminals
stop overcharging for pleas, Mike flynn being an ally example I
wish they would recognize. The media says if he wasnt guilty,
why would he take a plea? I can find you thousands of young
black men who can answer that question without skipping a beat.
Get rid of plea bargains all together, make DAs actually work
for their conviction rates at trial, bet you see a less burdened
court and prison system right quick.
Prisons cost 30-70k annually per inmate. Thats a whole lot of
dough to put into those other programs, and over time that cost
goes down as guards age out and dont need to be replaced because
the cells are empty.
defund the police is targeting a symptom of a virus and giving
it an antibiotic (its the wrong treatment)
On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 7:38 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:
For many people, that seems to mean stop funding the police
to deal with issues like mental health, homelessness,
domestic disputes, street vendors, routine discipline in
schools, etc., and instead use that money to fund
specialists, and let the police handle murders and robberies
and stuff.
I had a discussion with someone who is all for defund the
police and I said if that’s what they mean, the term really
sucks, because it conveys something totally different and
many people are not going to support something that sounds
like disband the police and then nobody handles murders and
robberies. Rather than saying reform the police, or narrow
their focus, or move some of their responsibilities to other
agencies. But he said I was wrong, without really
explaining why I was wrong. I think he meant we can call it
what we want to, who cares if it’s unnecessarily
provocative. Or maybe he really does want to disband the
police.
*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *justsumname .
*Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2020 6:14 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy
is it just the 'news' that I'm reading or are things really
going totally bathshitcrazy ?!? "de-fund the police"
is just ONE thing.
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AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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*Jay Weekley*
*Cyber Broadband
*
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This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy
A lot of us fawn over large vehicles .
What's an assault vehicle? Is it like an assault hammer?
On 6/16/2020 10:17 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
Installed an 11GHz PTP link for Midland, Texas PD years ago ...they
had a large military assault vehicle some officers were fawning
over...felt like they were itching to use it...
On Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 8:33 PM Bill Prince <mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I think one of the things they want to do is de-militarize the
police. Local podunk PDs have no business buying million dollar MRAPs.
bp
On 6/15/2020 7:29 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
the problem is the defund the police folks dont understand
economics. there isnt enough money as it is for maintaining the
police presence for the criminal side of things. taking that
money and paying for a bunch of counsellors doesnt lead to having
enough cops. Removing police from schools is a 1 percent thing,
the other 99 percent will pull their kids out without resource
officers. Mental health still will need police, they dont go to a
hot environment because they dont have arrest powers if it goes
downhill, and you dont want jonna the counselor having to fight
the loon.
They want to disarm the police. thats a big no, complete non
starter. They consider the bullet proof vests to be a mechanism
of intimidation, anyone who has actually had a vest do its job
would never let somebody else go in without one.
Maybe they try an actual wholistic approach, stop making
everything illegal, and you immediately have less criminals
stop overcharging for pleas, Mike flynn being an ally example I
wish they would recognize. The media says if he wasnt guilty, why
would he take a plea? I can find you thousands of young black men
who can answer that question without skipping a beat.
Get rid of plea bargains all together, make DAs actually work for
their conviction rates at trial, bet you see a less burdened
court and prison system right quick.
Prisons cost 30-70k annually per inmate. Thats a whole lot of
dough to put into those other programs, and over time that cost
goes down as guards age out and dont need to be replaced because
the cells are empty.
defund the police is targeting a symptom of a virus and giving it
an antibiotic (its the wrong treatment)
On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 7:38 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:
For many people, that seems to mean stop funding the police
to deal with issues like mental health, homelessness,
domestic disputes, street vendors, routine discipline in
schools, etc., and instead use that money to fund
specialists, and let the police handle murders and robberies
and stuff.
I had a discussion with someone who is all for defund the
police and I said if that’s what they mean, the term really
sucks, because it conveys something totally different and
many people are not going to support something that sounds
like disband the police and then nobody handles murders and
robberies. Rather than saying reform the police, or narrow
their focus, or move some of their responsibilities to other
agencies. But he said I was wrong, without really explaining
why I was wrong. I think he meant we can call it what we
want to, who cares if it’s unnecessarily provocative. Or
maybe he really does want to disband the police.
*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *justsumname .
*Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2020 6:14 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy
is it just the 'news' that I'm reading or are things really
going totally bathshitcrazy ?!? "de-fund the police"
is just ONE thing.
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy
It's all about the escalation of threat. Somebody shoots up a school, then we have to arm all the schools (what's wrong with that idea?). Give them MRAPs too. That's a good way to spend money. bp On 6/15/2020 8:11 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: When did they start having cops in schools? Never once in my K-12 days did I see a policeman in my school. I’ll have to ask my kids if they ever did. Maybe I led a privileged life. College had “campus cops” but they were kind of a joke, mostly relegated to writing parking tickets. From: AF On Behalf Of Bill Prince Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 9:45 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy Not around here. That must be an Illinois thing. I left that place sometime around 1967. bp On 6/15/2020 7:42 PM, Steve Jones wrote: you ever seen a podunk meth dealers arsenal? On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 9:33 PM Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> wrote: I think one of the things they want to do is de-militarize the police. Local podunk PDs have no business buying million dollar MRAPs. bp On 6/15/2020 7:29 PM, Steve Jones wrote: the problem is the defund the police folks dont understand economics. there isnt enough money as it is for maintaining the police presence for the criminal side of things. taking that money and paying for a bunch of counsellors doesnt lead to having enough cops. Removing police from schools is a 1 percent thing, the other 99 percent will pull their kids out without resource officers. Mental health still will need police, they dont go to a hot environment because they dont have arrest powers if it goes downhill, and you dont want jonna the counselor having to fight the loon. They want to disarm the police. thats a big no, complete non starter. They consider the bullet proof vests to be a mechanism of intimidation, anyone who has actually had a vest do its job would never let somebody else go in without one. Maybe they try an actual wholistic approach, stop making everything illegal, and you immediately have less criminals stop overcharging for pleas, Mike flynn being an ally example I wish they would recognize. The media says if he wasnt guilty, why would he take a plea? I can find you thousands of young black men who can answer that question without skipping a beat. Get rid of plea bargains all together, make DAs actually work for their conviction rates at trial, bet you see a less burdened court and prison system right quick. Prisons cost 30-70k annually per inmate. Thats a whole lot of dough to put into those other programs, and over time that cost goes down as guards age out and dont need to be replaced because the cells are empty. defund the police is targeting a symptom of a virus and giving it an antibiotic (its the wrong treatment) On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 7:38 PM Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com>
Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy
Installed an 11GHz PTP link for Midland, Texas PD years ago ...they had a large military assault vehicle some officers were fawning over...felt like they were itching to use it... On Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 8:33 PM Bill Prince wrote: > I think one of the things they want to do is de-militarize the police. > Local podunk PDs have no business buying million dollar MRAPs. > > > bp > > > > On 6/15/2020 7:29 PM, Steve Jones wrote: > > the problem is the defund the police folks dont understand economics. > there isnt enough money as it is for maintaining the police presence for > the criminal side of things. taking that money and paying for a bunch of > counsellors doesnt lead to having enough cops. Removing police from schools > is a 1 percent thing, the other 99 percent will pull their kids out without > resource officers. Mental health still will need police, they dont go to a > hot environment because they dont have arrest powers if it goes downhill, > and you dont want jonna the counselor having to fight the loon. > They want to disarm the police. thats a big no, complete non starter. They > consider the bullet proof vests to be a mechanism of intimidation, anyone > who has actually had a vest do its job would never let somebody else go in > without one. > Maybe they try an actual wholistic approach, stop making everything > illegal, and you immediately have less criminals > stop overcharging for pleas, Mike flynn being an ally example I wish they > would recognize. The media says if he wasnt guilty, why would he take a > plea? I can find you thousands of young black men who can answer that > question without skipping a beat. > Get rid of plea bargains all together, make DAs actually work for their > conviction rates at trial, bet you see a less burdened court and prison > system right quick. > Prisons cost 30-70k annually per inmate. Thats a whole lot of dough to put > into those other programs, and over time that cost goes down as guards age > out and dont need to be replaced because the cells are empty. > > defund the police is targeting a symptom of a virus and giving it an > antibiotic (its the wrong treatment) > > On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 7:38 PM Ken Hohhof wrote: > >> For many people, that seems to mean stop funding the police to deal with >> issues like mental health, homelessness, domestic disputes, street vendors, >> routine discipline in schools, etc., and instead use that money to fund >> specialists, and let the police handle murders and robberies and stuff. >> >> >> >> I had a discussion with someone who is all for defund the police and I >> said if that’s what they mean, the term really sucks, because it conveys >> something totally different and many people are not going to support >> something that sounds like disband the police and then nobody handles >> murders and robberies. Rather than saying reform the police, or narrow >> their focus, or move some of their responsibilities to other agencies. But >> he said I was wrong, without really explaining why I was wrong. I think he >> meant we can call it what we want to, who cares if it’s unnecessarily >> provocative. Or maybe he really does want to disband the police. >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* AF *On Behalf Of *justsumname . >> *Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2020 6:14 PM >> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy >> >> >> >> is it just the 'news' that I'm reading or are things really going totally >> bathshitcrazy ?!? "de-fund the police" is just ONE thing. >> >> >> >> --- >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy
One thing to remember. If they were to disband the police, I will be left unattended. On Tue, Jun 16, 2020, 7:32 AM Adam Moffett wrote: > They'll say, "no no no, we don't mean to take away all the police, what we > mean is" > > But if your slogan takes 3 paragraphs to explain then it's a stupid slogan. > > > On 6/15/2020 8:37 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: > > For many people, that seems to mean stop funding the police to deal with > issues like mental health, homelessness, domestic disputes, street vendors, > routine discipline in schools, etc., and instead use that money to fund > specialists, and let the police handle murders and robberies and stuff. > > > > I had a discussion with someone who is all for defund the police and I > said if that’s what they mean, the term really sucks, because it conveys > something totally different and many people are not going to support > something that sounds like disband the police and then nobody handles > murders and robberies. Rather than saying reform the police, or narrow > their focus, or move some of their responsibilities to other agencies. But > he said I was wrong, without really explaining why I was wrong. I think he > meant we can call it what we want to, who cares if it’s unnecessarily > provocative. Or maybe he really does want to disband the police. > > > > > > *From:* AF *On Behalf > Of *justsumname . > *Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2020 6:14 PM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy > > > > is it just the 'news' that I'm reading or are things really going totally > bathshitcrazy ?!? "de-fund the police" is just ONE thing. > > > > --- > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy
They'll say, "no no no, we don't mean to take away all the police, what we mean is" But if your slogan takes 3 paragraphs to explain then it's a stupid slogan. On 6/15/2020 8:37 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: For many people, that seems to mean stop funding the police to deal with issues like mental health, homelessness, domestic disputes, street vendors, routine discipline in schools, etc., and instead use that money to fund specialists, and let the police handle murders and robberies and stuff. I had a discussion with someone who is all for defund the police and I said if that’s what they mean, the term really sucks, because it conveys something totally different and many people are not going to support something that sounds like disband the police and then nobody handles murders and robberies. Rather than saying reform the police, or narrow their focus, or move some of their responsibilities to other agencies. But he said I was wrong, without really explaining why I was wrong. I think he meant we can call it what we want to, who cares if it’s unnecessarily provocative. Or maybe he really does want to disband the police. *From:* AF *On Behalf Of *justsumname . *Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2020 6:14 PM *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy is it just the 'news' that I'm reading or are things really going totally bathshitcrazy ?!? "de-fund the police" is just ONE thing. --- -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy
Not great branding when the obvious nickname is “boogers”. From: AF On Behalf Of Steve Jones Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 10:46 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy yes. The tower in texas, the father and son bankrobbers are two of the incidents that led to that. last year in new jersey. Criminals have serious firepower. Non criminals even more. Every day there are new laws going on the books that make criminals out of more non criminals. Its no different than us still maintaining the 1 ventilator per minute output even though we know we dont need them. once youve seen what happens when youre underprepared, you over prepare. If anything the media says about the "boogaloo boys" is true (its not), you definetly want the law to have the armaments, because a huge percentage of national guard are talking about the big luau On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 10:29 PM Robert mailto:i...@avantwireless.com> > wrote: But do they need to spend money on surplus Army equipment? Do they really need to get the army's ma deuces? Do they need 5x the number of m-16's that they have employees for? Do they need 2.5 million rounds of ammo for the m-16's? maybe they are getting it on the cheep but it's still $$... On 6/15/20 7:29 PM, Steve Jones wrote: the problem is the defund the police folks dont understand economics. there isnt enough money as it is for maintaining the police presence for the criminal side of things. taking that money and paying for a bunch of counsellors doesnt lead to having enough cops. Removing police from schools is a 1 percent thing, the other 99 percent will pull their kids out without resource officers. Mental health still will need police, they dont go to a hot environment because they dont have arrest powers if it goes downhill, and you dont want jonna the counselor having to fight the loon. They want to disarm the police. thats a big no, complete non starter. They consider the bullet proof vests to be a mechanism of intimidation, anyone who has actually had a vest do its job would never let somebody else go in without one. Maybe they try an actual wholistic approach, stop making everything illegal, and you immediately have less criminals stop overcharging for pleas, Mike flynn being an ally example I wish they would recognize. The media says if he wasnt guilty, why would he take a plea? I can find you thousands of young black men who can answer that question without skipping a beat. Get rid of plea bargains all together, make DAs actually work for their conviction rates at trial, bet you see a less burdened court and prison system right quick. Prisons cost 30-70k annually per inmate. Thats a whole lot of dough to put into those other programs, and over time that cost goes down as guards age out and dont need to be replaced because the cells are empty. defund the police is targeting a symptom of a virus and giving it an antibiotic (its the wrong treatment) On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 7:38 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote: For many people, that seems to mean stop funding the police to deal with issues like mental health, homelessness, domestic disputes, street vendors, routine discipline in schools, etc., and instead use that money to fund specialists, and let the police handle murders and robberies and stuff. I had a discussion with someone who is all for defund the police and I said if that’s what they mean, the term really sucks, because it conveys something totally different and many people are not going to support something that sounds like disband the police and then nobody handles murders and robberies. Rather than saying reform the police, or narrow their focus, or move some of their responsibilities to other agencies. But he said I was wrong, without really explaining why I was wrong. I think he meant we can call it what we want to, who cares if it’s unnecessarily provocative. Or maybe he really does want to disband the police. From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf Of justsumname . Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 6:14 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > Subject: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy is it just the 'news' that I'm reading or are things really going totally bathshitcrazy ?!? "de-fund the police" is just ONE thing. --- -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy
yes. The tower in texas, the father and son bankrobbers are two of the incidents that led to that. last year in new jersey. Criminals have serious firepower. Non criminals even more. Every day there are new laws going on the books that make criminals out of more non criminals. Its no different than us still maintaining the 1 ventilator per minute output even though we know we dont need them. once youve seen what happens when youre underprepared, you over prepare. If anything the media says about the "boogaloo boys" is true (its not), you definetly want the law to have the armaments, because a huge percentage of national guard are talking about the big luau On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 10:29 PM Robert wrote: > But do they need to spend money on surplus Army equipment? Do they really > need to get the army's ma deuces? Do they need 5x the number of m-16's > that they have employees for? Do they need 2.5 million rounds of ammo for > the m-16's? maybe they are getting it on the cheep but it's still $$... > > On 6/15/20 7:29 PM, Steve Jones wrote: > > the problem is the defund the police folks dont understand economics. > there isnt enough money as it is for maintaining the police presence for > the criminal side of things. taking that money and paying for a bunch of > counsellors doesnt lead to having enough cops. Removing police from schools > is a 1 percent thing, the other 99 percent will pull their kids out without > resource officers. Mental health still will need police, they dont go to a > hot environment because they dont have arrest powers if it goes downhill, > and you dont want jonna the counselor having to fight the loon. > They want to disarm the police. thats a big no, complete non starter. They > consider the bullet proof vests to be a mechanism of intimidation, anyone > who has actually had a vest do its job would never let somebody else go in > without one. > Maybe they try an actual wholistic approach, stop making everything > illegal, and you immediately have less criminals > stop overcharging for pleas, Mike flynn being an ally example I wish they > would recognize. The media says if he wasnt guilty, why would he take a > plea? I can find you thousands of young black men who can answer that > question without skipping a beat. > Get rid of plea bargains all together, make DAs actually work for their > conviction rates at trial, bet you see a less burdened court and prison > system right quick. > Prisons cost 30-70k annually per inmate. Thats a whole lot of dough to put > into those other programs, and over time that cost goes down as guards age > out and dont need to be replaced because the cells are empty. > > defund the police is targeting a symptom of a virus and giving it an > antibiotic (its the wrong treatment) > > On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 7:38 PM Ken Hohhof wrote: > >> For many people, that seems to mean stop funding the police to deal with >> issues like mental health, homelessness, domestic disputes, street vendors, >> routine discipline in schools, etc., and instead use that money to fund >> specialists, and let the police handle murders and robberies and stuff. >> >> >> >> I had a discussion with someone who is all for defund the police and I >> said if that’s what they mean, the term really sucks, because it conveys >> something totally different and many people are not going to support >> something that sounds like disband the police and then nobody handles >> murders and robberies. Rather than saying reform the police, or narrow >> their focus, or move some of their responsibilities to other agencies. But >> he said I was wrong, without really explaining why I was wrong. I think he >> meant we can call it what we want to, who cares if it’s unnecessarily >> provocative. Or maybe he really does want to disband the police. >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* AF *On Behalf Of *justsumname . >> *Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2020 6:14 PM >> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy >> >> >> >> is it just the 'news' that I'm reading or are things really going totally >> bathshitcrazy ?!? "de-fund the police" is just ONE thing. >> >> >> >> --- >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> > > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy
But do they need to spend money on surplus Army equipment? Do they
really need to get the army's ma deuces? Do they need 5x the number of
m-16's that they have employees for? Do they need 2.5 million rounds of
ammo for the m-16's? maybe they are getting it on the cheep but it's
still $$...
On 6/15/20 7:29 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
the problem is the defund the police folks dont understand economics.
there isnt enough money as it is for maintaining the police
presence for the criminal side of things. taking that money and paying
for a bunch of counsellors doesnt lead to having enough cops. Removing
police from schools is a 1 percent thing, the other 99 percent will
pull their kids out without resource officers. Mental health still
will need police, they dont go to a hot environment because they dont
have arrest powers if it goes downhill, and you dont want jonna the
counselor having to fight the loon.
They want to disarm the police. thats a big no, complete non starter.
They consider the bullet proof vests to be a mechanism of
intimidation, anyone who has actually had a vest do its job would
never let somebody else go in without one.
Maybe they try an actual wholistic approach, stop making everything
illegal, and you immediately have less criminals
stop overcharging for pleas, Mike flynn being an ally example I wish
they would recognize. The media says if he wasnt guilty, why would he
take a plea? I can find you thousands of young black men who can
answer that question without skipping a beat.
Get rid of plea bargains all together, make DAs actually work for
their conviction rates at trial, bet you see a less burdened court and
prison system right quick.
Prisons cost 30-70k annually per inmate. Thats a whole lot of dough to
put into those other programs, and over time that cost goes down as
guards age out and dont need to be replaced because the cells are empty.
defund the police is targeting a symptom of a virus and giving it an
antibiotic (its the wrong treatment)
On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 7:38 PM Ken Hohhof <mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:
For many people, that seems to mean stop funding the police to
deal with issues like mental health, homelessness, domestic
disputes, street vendors, routine discipline in schools, etc., and
instead use that money to fund specialists, and let the police
handle murders and robberies and stuff.
I had a discussion with someone who is all for defund the police
and I said if that’s what they mean, the term really sucks,
because it conveys something totally different and many people are
not going to support something that sounds like disband the police
and then nobody handles murders and robberies. Rather than saying
reform the police, or narrow their focus, or move some of their
responsibilities to other agencies. But he said I was wrong,
without really explaining why I was wrong. I think he meant we
can call it what we want to, who cares if it’s unnecessarily
provocative. Or maybe he really does want to disband the police.
*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *justsumname .
*Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2020 6:14 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy
is it just the 'news' that I'm reading or are things really going
totally bathshitcrazy ?!? "de-fund the police" is just
ONE thing.
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy
I grew up in Sunnyvale It was/is? a town that really was run by the people. People got pissed about waiting at stop lights in traffic way back in the mid 70's and they passed a city ordinance that the lights on all major throughfares had to be synced for throughput! It was great! Drive the speed limit and just cruise. Traffic got to dense for it to be non-stop in the 90's but software control improved as well as the planning s/w and it's still the easiest town to drive through in the valley IMNSHO... Left the valley in 98... I would get in trouble now for saying why... On 6/15/20 7:26 PM, Bill Prince wrote: Look up the city of Sunnyvale, California. They abolished their police department in 1950 and created what they call a public safety department. They still have patrol cars, but the officers do triple duty as police, firefighters, and EMT. They did this in 1950, so it's been working very well for ~~ 70 years. We used to live in Sunnyvale until about 1996. Great town, and great public safety department. Saves the city a ton of money. bp On 6/15/2020 5:37 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: For many people, that seems to mean stop funding the police to deal with issues like mental health, homelessness, domestic disputes, street vendors, routine discipline in schools, etc., and instead use that money to fund specialists, and let the police handle murders and robberies and stuff. I had a discussion with someone who is all for defund the police and I said if that’s what they mean, the term really sucks, because it conveys something totally different and many people are not going to support something that sounds like disband the police and then nobody handles murders and robberies. Rather than saying reform the police, or narrow their focus, or move some of their responsibilities to other agencies. But he said I was wrong, without really explaining why I was wrong. I think he meant we can call it what we want to, who cares if it’s unnecessarily provocative. Or maybe he really does want to disband the police. *From:* AF *On Behalf Of *justsumname . *Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2020 6:14 PM *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy is it just the 'news' that I'm reading or are things really going totally bathshitcrazy ?!? "de-fund the police" is just ONE thing. --- -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy
it started around here maybe 9 or 10 years ago. Bigger areas before that. Resource officers tend to be problematic officers, departments who dont have a desk job will put them in schools, thats problematic too. Teachers cant make physical contact with students anymore, so things like breaking up a hall fight can result in custodial battery charges, so it requires a short response LEO. a lot of school shootings have been stopped by resource officers. My kid made a school shooting joke with a buddy and got overheard. it went viral. Came into talk to the principal and it was going to be a warning. I asked for the resource officer to be brought in to discuss it. This particular officer was good and drove home the seriousness of jokes like that in todays world, so there are many positives of their presence, On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 10:11 PM Ken Hohhof wrote: > When did they start having cops in schools? Never once in my K-12 days > did I see a policeman in my school. I’ll have to ask my kids if they ever > did. Maybe I led a privileged life. > > > > College had “campus cops” but they were kind of a joke, mostly relegated > to writing parking tickets. > > > > > > *From:* AF *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince > *Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2020 9:45 PM > *To:* af@af.afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy > > > > Not around here. That must be an Illinois thing. I left that place > sometime around 1967. > > bp > > > > > > On 6/15/2020 7:42 PM, Steve Jones wrote: > > you ever seen a podunk meth dealers arsenal? > > > > On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 9:33 PM Bill Prince wrote: > > I think one of the things they want to do is de-militarize the police. > Local podunk PDs have no business buying million dollar MRAPs. > > > > bp > > > > > > On 6/15/2020 7:29 PM, Steve Jones wrote: > > the problem is the defund the police folks dont understand economics. > there isnt enough money as it is for maintaining the police presence for > the criminal side of things. taking that money and paying for a bunch of > counsellors doesnt lead to having enough cops. Removing police from schools > is a 1 percent thing, the other 99 percent will pull their kids out without > resource officers. Mental health still will need police, they dont go to a > hot environment because they dont have arrest powers if it goes downhill, > and you dont want jonna the counselor having to fight the loon. > > They want to disarm the police. thats a big no, complete non starter. They > consider the bullet proof vests to be a mechanism of intimidation, anyone > who has actually had a vest do its job would never let somebody else go in > without one. > > Maybe they try an actual wholistic approach, stop making everything > illegal, and you immediately have less criminals > > stop overcharging for pleas, Mike flynn being an ally example I wish they > would recognize. The media says if he wasnt guilty, why would he take a > plea? I can find you thousands of young black men who can answer that > question without skipping a beat. > > Get rid of plea bargains all together, make DAs actually work for their > conviction rates at trial, bet you see a less burdened court and prison > system right quick. > > Prisons cost 30-70k annually per inmate. Thats a whole lot of dough to put > into those other programs, and over time that cost goes down as guards age > out and dont need to be replaced because the cells are empty. > > > > defund the police is targeting a symptom of a virus and giving it an > antibiotic (its the wrong treatment) > > > > On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 7:38 PM Ken Hohhof wrote: > > For many people, that seems to mean stop funding the police to deal with > issues like mental health, homelessness, domestic disputes, street vendors, > routine discipline in schools, etc., and instead use that money to fund > specialists, and let the police handle murders and robberies and stuff. > > > > I had a discussion with someone who is all for defund the police and I > said if that’s what they mean, the term really sucks, because it conveys > something totally different and many people are not going to support > something that sounds like disband the police and then nobody handles > murders and robberies. Rather than saying reform the police, or narrow > their focus, or move some of their responsibilities to other agencies. But > he said I was wrong, without really explaining why I was wrong. I think he > meant we can call it what we want to, who cares if it’s unnecessarily > provocative. Or maybe he really does want to disband the police. > > > > > > *From:* AF *On Behalf Of *justsumname . > *Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2020 6:14 PM
Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy
need to bust the union, and somehow incentivise turning in dirty cops instead of making doing the right thing out to be the worst possible thing a cop can do. I never understood the thin blue line between good and evil protecting the evil side out of "brotherhood". National protocols with regional cutouts like EMS would help too. I know a couple people who were innocent that have done prison time because of dirty cops. One took a plea because of overcharging (white daughter didnt want daddy to know shed been diddling the non caucasion). SA/DAs knowing cops fabricated evidence to get the guy "off the streets" cause if he didnt do this particular crime, he did something burns me up. Look what happens when these guys finally get caught, thousands of cases have to be reviewed, and sometimes guilty folks have to be released. On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 9:58 PM Chuck McCown wrote: > They need to figure out how to teach restraint. I am for them to have the > tools they need. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jun 15, 2020, at 8:33 PM, Bill Prince wrote: > > > > I think one of the things they want to do is de-militarize the police. > Local podunk PDs have no business buying million dollar MRAPs. > > > bp > > > > On 6/15/2020 7:29 PM, Steve Jones wrote: > > the problem is the defund the police folks dont understand economics. > there isnt enough money as it is for maintaining the police presence for > the criminal side of things. taking that money and paying for a bunch of > counsellors doesnt lead to having enough cops. Removing police from schools > is a 1 percent thing, the other 99 percent will pull their kids out without > resource officers. Mental health still will need police, they dont go to a > hot environment because they dont have arrest powers if it goes downhill, > and you dont want jonna the counselor having to fight the loon. > They want to disarm the police. thats a big no, complete non starter. They > consider the bullet proof vests to be a mechanism of intimidation, anyone > who has actually had a vest do its job would never let somebody else go in > without one. > Maybe they try an actual wholistic approach, stop making everything > illegal, and you immediately have less criminals > stop overcharging for pleas, Mike flynn being an ally example I wish they > would recognize. The media says if he wasnt guilty, why would he take a > plea? I can find you thousands of young black men who can answer that > question without skipping a beat. > Get rid of plea bargains all together, make DAs actually work for their > conviction rates at trial, bet you see a less burdened court and prison > system right quick. > Prisons cost 30-70k annually per inmate. Thats a whole lot of dough to put > into those other programs, and over time that cost goes down as guards age > out and dont need to be replaced because the cells are empty. > > defund the police is targeting a symptom of a virus and giving it an > antibiotic (its the wrong treatment) > > On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 7:38 PM Ken Hohhof wrote: > >> For many people, that seems to mean stop funding the police to deal with >> issues like mental health, homelessness, domestic disputes, street vendors, >> routine discipline in schools, etc., and instead use that money to fund >> specialists, and let the police handle murders and robberies and stuff. >> >> >> >> I had a discussion with someone who is all for defund the police and I >> said if that’s what they mean, the term really sucks, because it conveys >> something totally different and many people are not going to support >> something that sounds like disband the police and then nobody handles >> murders and robberies. Rather than saying reform the police, or narrow >> their focus, or move some of their responsibilities to other agencies. But >> he said I was wrong, without really explaining why I was wrong. I think he >> meant we can call it what we want to, who cares if it’s unnecessarily >> provocative. Or maybe he really does want to disband the police. >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* AF *On Behalf Of *justsumname . >> *Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2020 6:14 PM >> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy >> >> >> >> is it just the 'news' that I'm reading or are things really going totally >> bathshitcrazy ?!? "de-fund the police" is just ONE thing. >> >> >> >> --- >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy
When did they start having cops in schools? Never once in my K-12 days did I see a policeman in my school. I’ll have to ask my kids if they ever did. Maybe I led a privileged life. College had “campus cops” but they were kind of a joke, mostly relegated to writing parking tickets. From: AF On Behalf Of Bill Prince Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 9:45 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy Not around here. That must be an Illinois thing. I left that place sometime around 1967. bp On 6/15/2020 7:42 PM, Steve Jones wrote: you ever seen a podunk meth dealers arsenal? On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 9:33 PM Bill Prince mailto:part15...@gmail.com> > wrote: I think one of the things they want to do is de-militarize the police. Local podunk PDs have no business buying million dollar MRAPs. bp On 6/15/2020 7:29 PM, Steve Jones wrote: the problem is the defund the police folks dont understand economics. there isnt enough money as it is for maintaining the police presence for the criminal side of things. taking that money and paying for a bunch of counsellors doesnt lead to having enough cops. Removing police from schools is a 1 percent thing, the other 99 percent will pull their kids out without resource officers. Mental health still will need police, they dont go to a hot environment because they dont have arrest powers if it goes downhill, and you dont want jonna the counselor having to fight the loon. They want to disarm the police. thats a big no, complete non starter. They consider the bullet proof vests to be a mechanism of intimidation, anyone who has actually had a vest do its job would never let somebody else go in without one. Maybe they try an actual wholistic approach, stop making everything illegal, and you immediately have less criminals stop overcharging for pleas, Mike flynn being an ally example I wish they would recognize. The media says if he wasnt guilty, why would he take a plea? I can find you thousands of young black men who can answer that question without skipping a beat. Get rid of plea bargains all together, make DAs actually work for their conviction rates at trial, bet you see a less burdened court and prison system right quick. Prisons cost 30-70k annually per inmate. Thats a whole lot of dough to put into those other programs, and over time that cost goes down as guards age out and dont need to be replaced because the cells are empty. defund the police is targeting a symptom of a virus and giving it an antibiotic (its the wrong treatment) On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 7:38 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote: For many people, that seems to mean stop funding the police to deal with issues like mental health, homelessness, domestic disputes, street vendors, routine discipline in schools, etc., and instead use that money to fund specialists, and let the police handle murders and robberies and stuff. I had a discussion with someone who is all for defund the police and I said if that’s what they mean, the term really sucks, because it conveys something totally different and many people are not going to support something that sounds like disband the police and then nobody handles murders and robberies. Rather than saying reform the police, or narrow their focus, or move some of their responsibilities to other agencies. But he said I was wrong, without really explaining why I was wrong. I think he meant we can call it what we want to, who cares if it’s unnecessarily provocative. Or maybe he really does want to disband the police. From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf Of justsumname . Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 6:14 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > Subject: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy is it just the 'news' that I'm reading or are things really going totally bathshitcrazy ?!? "de-fund the police" is just ONE thing. --- -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy
They need to figure out how to teach restraint. I am for them to have the tools they need. Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 15, 2020, at 8:33 PM, Bill Prince wrote: > > > I think one of the things they want to do is de-militarize the police. Local > podunk PDs have no business buying million dollar MRAPs. > > > > bp > > > On 6/15/2020 7:29 PM, Steve Jones wrote: >> the problem is the defund the police folks dont understand economics. there >> isnt enough money as it is for maintaining the police presence for the >> criminal side of things. taking that money and paying for a bunch of >> counsellors doesnt lead to having enough cops. Removing police from schools >> is a 1 percent thing, the other 99 percent will pull their kids out without >> resource officers. Mental health still will need police, they dont go to a >> hot environment because they dont have arrest powers if it goes downhill, >> and you dont want jonna the counselor having to fight the loon. >> They want to disarm the police. thats a big no, complete non starter. They >> consider the bullet proof vests to be a mechanism of intimidation, anyone >> who has actually had a vest do its job would never let somebody else go in >> without one. >> Maybe they try an actual wholistic approach, stop making everything illegal, >> and you immediately have less criminals >> stop overcharging for pleas, Mike flynn being an ally example I wish they >> would recognize. The media says if he wasnt guilty, why would he take a >> plea? I can find you thousands of young black men who can answer that >> question without skipping a beat. >> Get rid of plea bargains all together, make DAs actually work for their >> conviction rates at trial, bet you see a less burdened court and prison >> system right quick. >> Prisons cost 30-70k annually per inmate. Thats a whole lot of dough to put >> into those other programs, and over time that cost goes down as guards age >> out and dont need to be replaced because the cells are empty. >> >> defund the police is targeting a symptom of a virus and giving it an >> antibiotic (its the wrong treatment) >> >> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 7:38 PM Ken Hohhof wrote: >>> For many people, that seems to mean stop funding the police to deal with >>> issues like mental health, homelessness, domestic disputes, street vendors, >>> routine discipline in schools, etc., and instead use that money to fund >>> specialists, and let the police handle murders and robberies and stuff. >>> >>> >>> >>> I had a discussion with someone who is all for defund the police and I said >>> if that’s what they mean, the term really sucks, because it conveys >>> something totally different and many people are not going to support >>> something that sounds like disband the police and then nobody handles >>> murders and robberies. Rather than saying reform the police, or narrow >>> their focus, or move some of their responsibilities to other agencies. But >>> he said I was wrong, without really explaining why I was wrong. I think he >>> meant we can call it what we want to, who cares if it’s unnecessarily >>> provocative. Or maybe he really does want to disband the police. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> From: AF On Behalf Of justsumname . >>> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 6:14 PM >>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>> Subject: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy >>> >>> >>> >>> is it just the 'news' that I'm reading or are things really going totally >>> bathshitcrazy ?!? "de-fund the police" is just ONE thing. >>> >>> >>> >>> --- >>> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> AF@af.afmug.com >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy
rowave Users Group
<af@af.afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy
is it just the 'news' that
I'm reading or are things really going totally
bathshitcrazy ?!? "de-fund the police"
is just ONE thing.
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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy
you ever seen a podunk meth dealers arsenal? On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 9:33 PM Bill Prince wrote: > I think one of the things they want to do is de-militarize the police. > Local podunk PDs have no business buying million dollar MRAPs. > > > bp > > > > On 6/15/2020 7:29 PM, Steve Jones wrote: > > the problem is the defund the police folks dont understand economics. > there isnt enough money as it is for maintaining the police presence for > the criminal side of things. taking that money and paying for a bunch of > counsellors doesnt lead to having enough cops. Removing police from schools > is a 1 percent thing, the other 99 percent will pull their kids out without > resource officers. Mental health still will need police, they dont go to a > hot environment because they dont have arrest powers if it goes downhill, > and you dont want jonna the counselor having to fight the loon. > They want to disarm the police. thats a big no, complete non starter. They > consider the bullet proof vests to be a mechanism of intimidation, anyone > who has actually had a vest do its job would never let somebody else go in > without one. > Maybe they try an actual wholistic approach, stop making everything > illegal, and you immediately have less criminals > stop overcharging for pleas, Mike flynn being an ally example I wish they > would recognize. The media says if he wasnt guilty, why would he take a > plea? I can find you thousands of young black men who can answer that > question without skipping a beat. > Get rid of plea bargains all together, make DAs actually work for their > conviction rates at trial, bet you see a less burdened court and prison > system right quick. > Prisons cost 30-70k annually per inmate. Thats a whole lot of dough to put > into those other programs, and over time that cost goes down as guards age > out and dont need to be replaced because the cells are empty. > > defund the police is targeting a symptom of a virus and giving it an > antibiotic (its the wrong treatment) > > On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 7:38 PM Ken Hohhof wrote: > >> For many people, that seems to mean stop funding the police to deal with >> issues like mental health, homelessness, domestic disputes, street vendors, >> routine discipline in schools, etc., and instead use that money to fund >> specialists, and let the police handle murders and robberies and stuff. >> >> >> >> I had a discussion with someone who is all for defund the police and I >> said if that’s what they mean, the term really sucks, because it conveys >> something totally different and many people are not going to support >> something that sounds like disband the police and then nobody handles >> murders and robberies. Rather than saying reform the police, or narrow >> their focus, or move some of their responsibilities to other agencies. But >> he said I was wrong, without really explaining why I was wrong. I think he >> meant we can call it what we want to, who cares if it’s unnecessarily >> provocative. Or maybe he really does want to disband the police. >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* AF *On Behalf Of *justsumname . >> *Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2020 6:14 PM >> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy >> >> >> >> is it just the 'news' that I'm reading or are things really going totally >> bathshitcrazy ?!? "de-fund the police" is just ONE thing. >> >> >> >> --- >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy
I think one of the things they want to do is de-militarize the
police. Local podunk PDs have no business buying million dollar
MRAPs.
bp
On 6/15/2020 7:29 PM, Steve Jones
wrote:
the problem is the defund the police folks dont
understand economics. there isnt enough money as it is for
maintaining the police presence for the criminal side of things.
taking that money and paying for a bunch of counsellors
doesnt lead to having enough cops. Removing police from schools
is a 1 percent thing, the other 99 percent will pull their kids
out without resource officers. Mental health still will need
police, they dont go to a hot environment because they dont have
arrest powers if it goes downhill, and you dont want jonna the
counselor having to fight the loon.
They want to disarm the police. thats a big no, complete
non starter. They consider the bullet proof vests to be a
mechanism of intimidation, anyone who has actually had a vest
do its job would never let somebody else go in without one.
Maybe they try an actual wholistic approach, stop making
everything illegal, and you immediately have less criminals
stop overcharging for pleas, Mike flynn being an ally
example I wish they would recognize. The media says if he
wasnt guilty, why would he take a plea? I can find you
thousands of young black men who can answer that question
without skipping a beat.
Get rid of plea bargains all together, make DAs actually
work for their conviction rates at trial, bet you see a less
burdened court and prison system right quick.
Prisons cost 30-70k annually per inmate. Thats a whole lot
of dough to put into those other programs, and over time that
cost goes down as guards age out and dont need to be replaced
because the cells are empty.
defund the police is targeting a symptom of a virus and
giving it an antibiotic (its the wrong treatment)
On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 7:38
PM Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:
For many people, that seems to mean
stop funding the police to deal with issues like mental
health, homelessness, domestic disputes, street vendors,
routine discipline in schools, etc., and instead use
that money to fund specialists, and let the police
handle murders and robberies and stuff.
I had a discussion with someone who
is all for defund the police and I said if that’s what
they mean, the term really sucks, because it conveys
something totally different and many people are not
going to support something that sounds like disband the
police and then nobody handles murders and robberies.
Rather than saying reform the police, or narrow their
focus, or move some of their responsibilities to other
agencies. But he said I was wrong, without really
explaining why I was wrong. I think he meant we can
call it what we want to, who cares if it’s unnecessarily
provocative. Or maybe he really does want to disband
the police.
From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com>
On Behalf Of justsumname .
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 6:14 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy
is it just the 'news' that I'm
reading or are things really going totally
bathshitcrazy ?!? "de-fund the police" is
just ONE thing.
---
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy
the problem is the defund the police folks dont understand economics. there isnt enough money as it is for maintaining the police presence for the criminal side of things. taking that money and paying for a bunch of counsellors doesnt lead to having enough cops. Removing police from schools is a 1 percent thing, the other 99 percent will pull their kids out without resource officers. Mental health still will need police, they dont go to a hot environment because they dont have arrest powers if it goes downhill, and you dont want jonna the counselor having to fight the loon. They want to disarm the police. thats a big no, complete non starter. They consider the bullet proof vests to be a mechanism of intimidation, anyone who has actually had a vest do its job would never let somebody else go in without one. Maybe they try an actual wholistic approach, stop making everything illegal, and you immediately have less criminals stop overcharging for pleas, Mike flynn being an ally example I wish they would recognize. The media says if he wasnt guilty, why would he take a plea? I can find you thousands of young black men who can answer that question without skipping a beat. Get rid of plea bargains all together, make DAs actually work for their conviction rates at trial, bet you see a less burdened court and prison system right quick. Prisons cost 30-70k annually per inmate. Thats a whole lot of dough to put into those other programs, and over time that cost goes down as guards age out and dont need to be replaced because the cells are empty. defund the police is targeting a symptom of a virus and giving it an antibiotic (its the wrong treatment) On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 7:38 PM Ken Hohhof wrote: > For many people, that seems to mean stop funding the police to deal with > issues like mental health, homelessness, domestic disputes, street vendors, > routine discipline in schools, etc., and instead use that money to fund > specialists, and let the police handle murders and robberies and stuff. > > > > I had a discussion with someone who is all for defund the police and I > said if that’s what they mean, the term really sucks, because it conveys > something totally different and many people are not going to support > something that sounds like disband the police and then nobody handles > murders and robberies. Rather than saying reform the police, or narrow > their focus, or move some of their responsibilities to other agencies. But > he said I was wrong, without really explaining why I was wrong. I think he > meant we can call it what we want to, who cares if it’s unnecessarily > provocative. Or maybe he really does want to disband the police. > > > > > > *From:* AF *On Behalf Of *justsumname . > *Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2020 6:14 PM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy > > > > is it just the 'news' that I'm reading or are things really going totally > bathshitcrazy ?!? "de-fund the police" is just ONE thing. > > > > --- > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy
Look up the city of Sunnyvale, California. They abolished their police department in 1950 and created what they call a public safety department. They still have patrol cars, but the officers do triple duty as police, firefighters, and EMT. They did this in 1950, so it's been working very well for ~~ 70 years. We used to live in Sunnyvale until about 1996. Great town, and great public safety department. Saves the city a ton of money. bp On 6/15/2020 5:37 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: For many people, that seems to mean stop funding the police to deal with issues like mental health, homelessness, domestic disputes, street vendors, routine discipline in schools, etc., and instead use that money to fund specialists, and let the police handle murders and robberies and stuff. I had a discussion with someone who is all for defund the police and I said if that’s what they mean, the term really sucks, because it conveys something totally different and many people are not going to support something that sounds like disband the police and then nobody handles murders and robberies. Rather than saying reform the police, or narrow their focus, or move some of their responsibilities to other agencies. But he said I was wrong, without really explaining why I was wrong. I think he meant we can call it what we want to, who cares if it’s unnecessarily provocative. Or maybe he really does want to disband the police. From: AF On Behalf Of justsumname . Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 6:14 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy is it just the 'news' that I'm reading or are things really going totally bathshitcrazy ?!? "de-fund the police" is just ONE thing. --- -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy
For many people, that seems to mean stop funding the police to deal with issues like mental health, homelessness, domestic disputes, street vendors, routine discipline in schools, etc., and instead use that money to fund specialists, and let the police handle murders and robberies and stuff. I had a discussion with someone who is all for defund the police and I said if that’s what they mean, the term really sucks, because it conveys something totally different and many people are not going to support something that sounds like disband the police and then nobody handles murders and robberies. Rather than saying reform the police, or narrow their focus, or move some of their responsibilities to other agencies. But he said I was wrong, without really explaining why I was wrong. I think he meant we can call it what we want to, who cares if it’s unnecessarily provocative. Or maybe he really does want to disband the police. From: AF On Behalf Of justsumname . Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 6:14 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: [AFMUG] OT: batcrazy is it just the 'news' that I'm reading or are things really going totally bathshitcrazy ?!? "de-fund the police" is just ONE thing. --- -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
[AFMUG] OT: batcrazy
is it just the 'news' that I'm reading or are things really going totally bathshitcrazy ?!? "de-fund the police" is just ONE thing. --- -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
