Re: [AFMUG] North Korea is down....

[Travis Johnson via Af]

The FBI setup a P2P server in North Korea with the Sony movie as the 
only download. LOL


Travis

On 12/22/2014 2:08 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller via Af wrote:


What did we do? Lol. How did we do it ?

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE Smartphone

Re: [AFMUG] MT reboot

[Travis Johnson via Af]

Upgrading from 5.26 to the latest 6.x version has fixed the problem. 
Thanks everyone. :)


Travis

On 12/18/2014 3:18 PM, Jason Pond via Af wrote:

Try upgrade to v6.12 which is the latest stable version for x86

I have had issues with a 951 doing random reboots because of failed 
hdd writes.




Sincerely,

Jason Pond
Grizzly Internet, Inc

On Thu, Dec 18, 2014 at 3:11 PM, Travis Johnson via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:


Hi,

We are having a strange issue with a Mikrotik x86 based router
(v5.26 OS). We have already replaced the entire hardware with
brand new (including power supply).

The issue is the MT box will just randomly reboot with no error
messages or warning, with uptimes ranging from 30 minutes to 2
hours. The entire problem started when we purchased a Zmodo NVR
(it's a security camera DVR system that uses PoE cameras, running
Linux) and plugged it into the Cisco switch that then connects to
the MT. This is a very basic setup. Internet connection on ether1,
inside NAT'd connections on ether2.

Anyone ever seen anything like this? Any ideas? Torch doesn't show
anything strange.

Travis

[AFMUG] MT reboot

[Travis Johnson via Af]

Hi,

We are having a strange issue with a Mikrotik x86 based router (v5.26 
OS). We have already replaced the entire hardware with brand new 
(including power supply).


The issue is the MT box will just randomly reboot with no error messages 
or warning, with uptimes ranging from 30 minutes to 2 hours. The entire 
problem started when we purchased a Zmodo NVR (it's a security camera 
DVR system that uses PoE cameras, running Linux) and plugged it into the 
Cisco switch that then connects to the MT. This is a very basic setup. 
Internet connection on ether1, inside NAT'd connections on ether2.


Anyone ever seen anything like this? Any ideas? Torch doesn't show 
anything strange.


Travis

Re: [AFMUG] Walking in SLC at night?

[Travis Johnson via Af]

You are probably pretty safe... SLC is a pretty tame (lame) city after 
about midnight (even on the weekends). If you are worried about it, call 
a cab... it will probably cost you $10 total for the ride.


Travis

On 12/12/2014 11:45 AM, Bruce Robertson via Af wrote:
One of my transportation options for Animal Farm is to take Amtrak 
from Reno.  The problem is that it arrives in SLC between 3 and 4 am.  
It's only a 15 minute walk from the station to the hotel, but I was 
wondering how advisable that is at that hour.

[AFMUG] Rick gone

[Travis Johnson via Af]

Hey,

Not sure if people saw this already, but Rick Harnish, the executive 
director of WISPA, announced he is stepping down at the end of January. 
He didn't give any other information, other than he was thankful for 
being part of WISPA over the last many years.


Rick did many great things for WISPA, and I wish him the best of luck in 
his next endeavor. When he became the ED for WISPA almost 4 years ago, 
there were only 200 members. Today there are over 830 members, and the 
group now has enough money and influence to actually make a difference 
with the FCC and other government groups.


I always enjoyed seeing Rick at the shows, and I know he will be missed. 
Good luck to you Rick. :)


Travis

Re: [AFMUG] 4K Video Streaming Impact on ISP's

[Travis Johnson via Af]

Hi,

My housing community (about 300 houses) uses a community water system. 
It's a flat rate, no meter system. Some people abuse it (running 
sprinklers and hoses continually), while others are probably seldom home 
and use very little. It all averages out over time.


Travis

On 12/10/2014 2:09 PM, Wireless Admin via Af wrote:


Most everyone here has been in this business long enough to see the 
pattern of bandwidth consumption.  It seems obvious to me that 
consumers as well as product developers can easily consume as much 
internet as you can provide.  Why not? As long as developers can make 
money and consumers are having fun this cycle will continue forever.  
Introduce a cost factor and the process will regulate it's self.  
Imagine a municipal water system with no usage fee.  Developers would 
create, among other things, hydroelectric generators for your faucet.  
Attach these devices, turn the water on full blast, and power you're 
appliances at the water utilities expense. Water consumption would go 
thru the roof and you could fire the power company.  How is that 
different than having your ISP deliver Video content so you can fire 
your Cable or Satellite Company.


Steve B.

Re: [AFMUG] Well there goes all our bandwidth. Amazon streaming 4K now.

[Travis Johnson via Af]

Because then people could "save" the movies in RAM, and someone would 
figure out a way to be able to download them and put them on the 
Internet for free.


It's a licensing issue... that's why "streaming" is OK.

Travis

On 12/9/2014 7:00 PM, Bill Prince via Af wrote:
That 187MB translates to only about 11.25 GB per hour.  Why not stick 
in a 32GB memory and be done? That would be almost 3 hours of buffer.


--
bp


On 12/9/2014 4:50 PM, Travis Johnson via Af wrote:
It's really too bad that the devices that support all these streaming 
services can't have a larger buffer. I'm sure it's part of their 
licensing deals, but if they could buffer 60 seconds of stream (at 
any quality), they would have much fewer support calls for streaming 
issues, etc.


Using Netflix's 25Mbps for 4k, that works out to 187.5MB of storage 
space. At current RAM prices, you can buy a 256MB module for $15 full 
retail... so places like Samsung can probably buy them in quantity 
for less than $2. Seems like it would be worth it to pay an extra $10 
for a TV/DVD/PS4/Wii-U device that could handle 60 seconds of video.


Travis

On 12/9/2014 5:34 PM, Sterling Jacobson via Af wrote:


That’s pretty cool.

You can do 4k direct from Youtube.

Several of the ones I’ve tested are sustained around 20-30Mbps.

But on my network it tends to burst to 90Mbps then sit around for a 
while, then burst back to 90Mbps.


I think the 4k will require a lot of optimizations before it works 
on the built in TV’s.


*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jerry 
Richardson via Af

*Sent:* Tuesday, December 09, 2014 5:12 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Well there goes all our bandwidth. Amazon 
streaming 4K now.


Lovely

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ryan Ghering 
via Af

*Sent:* Tuesday, December 09, 2014 3:38 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Well there goes all our bandwidth. Amazon 
streaming 4K now.


http://www.cnet.com/news/amazon-starts-4k-uhd-streams/

--

Ryan Ghering
Network Operations - Plains.Net
Office: 970-848-0475 - Cell: 970-630-1879

Re: [AFMUG] Well there goes all our bandwidth. Amazon streaming 4K now.

[Travis Johnson via Af]

Because then people could "save" the movies in RAM, and someone would 
figure out a way to be able to download them and put them on the 
Internet for free.


It's a licensing issue... that's why "streaming" is OK.

Travis

On 12/9/2014 7:00 PM, Bill Prince via Af wrote:
That 187MB translates to only about 11.25 GB per hour.  Why not stick 
in a 32GB memory and be done? That would be almost 3 hours of buffer.


--
bp


On 12/9/2014 4:50 PM, Travis Johnson via Af wrote:
It's really too bad that the devices that support all these streaming 
services can't have a larger buffer. I'm sure it's part of their 
licensing deals, but if they could buffer 60 seconds of stream (at 
any quality), they would have much fewer support calls for streaming 
issues, etc.


Using Netflix's 25Mbps for 4k, that works out to 187.5MB of storage 
space. At current RAM prices, you can buy a 256MB module for $15 full 
retail... so places like Samsung can probably buy them in quantity 
for less than $2. Seems like it would be worth it to pay an extra $10 
for a TV/DVD/PS4/Wii-U device that could handle 60 seconds of video.


Travis

On 12/9/2014 5:34 PM, Sterling Jacobson via Af wrote:


That’s pretty cool.

You can do 4k direct from Youtube.

Several of the ones I’ve tested are sustained around 20-30Mbps.

But on my network it tends to burst to 90Mbps then sit around for a 
while, then burst back to 90Mbps.


I think the 4k will require a lot of optimizations before it works 
on the built in TV’s.


*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jerry 
Richardson via Af

*Sent:* Tuesday, December 09, 2014 5:12 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Well there goes all our bandwidth. Amazon 
streaming 4K now.


Lovely

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ryan Ghering 
via Af

*Sent:* Tuesday, December 09, 2014 3:38 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Well there goes all our bandwidth. Amazon 
streaming 4K now.


http://www.cnet.com/news/amazon-starts-4k-uhd-streams/

--

Ryan Ghering
Network Operations - Plains.Net
Office: 970-848-0475 - Cell: 970-630-1879

Re: [AFMUG] Well there goes all our bandwidth. Amazon streaming 4K now.

[Travis Johnson via Af]

It's really too bad that the devices that support all these streaming 
services can't have a larger buffer. I'm sure it's part of their 
licensing deals, but if they could buffer 60 seconds of stream (at any 
quality), they would have much fewer support calls for streaming issues, 
etc.


Using Netflix's 25Mbps for 4k, that works out to 187.5MB of storage 
space. At current RAM prices, you can buy a 256MB module for $15 full 
retail... so places like Samsung can probably buy them in quantity for 
less than $2. Seems like it would be worth it to pay an extra $10 for a 
TV/DVD/PS4/Wii-U device that could handle 60 seconds of video.


Travis

On 12/9/2014 5:34 PM, Sterling Jacobson via Af wrote:


That’s pretty cool.

You can do 4k direct from Youtube.

Several of the ones I’ve tested are sustained around 20-30Mbps.

But on my network it tends to burst to 90Mbps then sit around for a 
while, then burst back to 90Mbps.


I think the 4k will require a lot of optimizations before it works on 
the built in TV’s.


*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jerry 
Richardson via Af

*Sent:* Tuesday, December 09, 2014 5:12 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Well there goes all our bandwidth. Amazon 
streaming 4K now.


Lovely

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ryan Ghering via Af
*Sent:* Tuesday, December 09, 2014 3:38 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Well there goes all our bandwidth. Amazon streaming 
4K now.


http://www.cnet.com/news/amazon-starts-4k-uhd-streams/

--

Ryan Ghering
Network Operations - Plains.Net
Office: 970-848-0475 - Cell: 970-630-1879

Re: [AFMUG] Christmas bonus

[Travis Johnson via Af]

We always did the monthly bonus structure, similar to what has already 
been listed, and also did a Christmas bonus of $100 per year the 
employee had worked at the company. We had some employees getting $1,500 
and $1,600 Christmas bonuses our last year in business. :)


Travis

On 12/2/2014 8:07 PM, Sean Heskett via Af wrote:
The math is similar to what you posted Jeremy, and we have 11 
employees so it can be a couple to a few hundred dollars in a month.


We also made it fat on purpose because all those net new clients are a 
new long term revenue stream for the company.


It gives them ownership of company growth so everyone is focused on 
that one goal...net new.  I'm basically trading most of the first 
month's revenue for focus on the company goal.


It's been great all around for employee moral and company growth...win win

-Sean

On Tuesday, December 2, 2014, Jeremy via Af > wrote:


So if you have an ARPU of $40 then 40*55 = $2200 / month. 
Depending on how many employees you have that would be a pretty

awesome bonus structure.

On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 7:25 PM, Tushar Patel via Af > wrote:

Sean,

Sound like great plan. We need to implement something like this.

So with net of 55 per month, how much $$ will go in the pool
per month?  So highest amount made in the year by one person?

Tushar


On Dec 2, 2014, at 6:48 PM, Sean Heskett via Af > wrote:


a couple years ago we stopped doing christmas bonuses and
moved to a year round monthly "net new" bonuses each month.
 we take the total active subs last month and the total
active subs this month and any amount over 20 goes into the
net new bonus pool.

for instance if we have 75 net new in a month then 55 *
monthly sub $ average = net new $ bonus pool.  the pool gets
divided amongst everyone.  The formula is a bit more
complicated than that but that's the general gist of the "net
new bonus".  also the reason for the "20" off the top is that
we feel the company should be able to add 20 net new subs
with out even really trying (based on historical data from 15
years)

this gets the whole team from sales to support to installers
to network techs focused on customer retention and company
growth.  also since the monthly sub $ average is part of the
formula it encourages everyone to upsell.

this november we doubled last november's net new :-)

we expect this december to blow the doors off last year
because in the first 2 days of the month we took 23 orders.

-sean




On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 12:48 PM, Josh Luthman via Af
>
wrote:

When does everyone else usually hand this over?  Are
there any tax benefits or anything like that?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

Re: [AFMUG] Network Monitoring in the 2010's

[Travis Johnson via Af]

Hi,

This is why we just included a "free" WiFi router with all of our 
installations. It wasn't a separate item on their bill, it was just part 
of our service. Then we had control of the router, and could actually 
test clear to the router from our NOC. The customers liked it because 
they didn't have to worry about the router, and when it failed we just 
replaced it, no charge.


Again... customer service is what wins the day. :)

Travis

On 11/21/2014 9:00 AM, Ken Hohhof via Af wrote:
I really question if customers want a device to help them 
troubleshoot.  More like if we (a bunch of network admins) were the 
customer, that’s what we’d want.  It’s like the guys on Big Bang 
Theory trying to imagine what a regular person would want.
The hurdle seems to be getting them to pay someone to fix problems in 
their internal network.  If you can monetize this by selling an onsite 
support plan, or by dispatching from a separate side of your business 
that charges for service calls, that is good, as long as you can say 
this is not an Internet service problem, it is a customer network 
problem.  Otherwise, refer them to a local computer shop that does 
house calls.
What amazes me is the reluctance to pay us $5/mo for a managed 
Mikrotik router that comes with free replacement, phone support and 
onsite support.  All of a sudden it’s not so interesting to have us 
solve the problem for them.  Yet they will go to Best Buy and let the 
kid talk them into a $200 Linksys AC router as the solution to all 
their problems.  I guess that points back to me being a poor salesman 
compared to the kid at Best Buy.  Probably because I know the managed 
router is a good deal for the customer, so if they don’t want it, I’m 
only going to push it so hard.  While Best Buy makes tons more money 
on a $200 router than they do on a $50 router and doesn’t give a rat’s 
ass what’s good for the customer, so they sell the hell out of the 
expensive router.  And people like going to stores and buying cool 
gadgets.  Maybe I need to rub some “new car smell” on the Mikrotik 
routers or something.
So I guess if your proposed gizmo has a “new car smell” or “latest 
iPhone” aura to it, people might buy it.  Just make sure that red 
light doesn’t have false detects, or it will just make people complain 
their Internet is down because the red light is on.

*From:* David via Af 
*Sent:* Friday, November 21, 2014 9:27 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Network Monitoring in the 2010's
Yeah we put a little thought into ours on that behalf.
The customer will have to go to the trouble of signing up for these 
alerts and it will only show alerts associated with their tower or CPE.

Even any scheduled work being done on that site.
Alerts for outages on their connection only is all that will be displayed.
We are not doing this for anyone on our FSK network only the 450 net.
We already have the Portal for billing.

On 11/20/2014 11:47 AM, Josh Luthman via Af wrote:

*An app for my phone?  Yuck
*Something that pushes to cutomers letting them know we're having 
issues?  Yuck
*Something that let's the customer verify their particular service is 
good/not?  That'd be great!

*Web portal for billing, easy peasy
Why a node fails probably won't be detectable by a machine - in some 
cases it's difficult for a person to narrow it down (radio, 
connectors, cables, ethernet, surge, etc) but I'd like to see ideas 
on this of course.
I use/suggest an outgoing message.  IF the customer is having issues 
and they do call us, they hear we're having issues and hang up.  This 
means that we're not telling 100 people there are issues when 25 are 
effecting ending up with 75 calls next month saying we owe them a 
credit when they had nothing to do with an outage.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 12:43 PM, Sterling Jacobson via Af 
mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:


What I really want is an integrated system that isn't stuck in
the 90's.

I want the customer to have an app on their phone that tells them
when their network is having issues and why.
I want it to also remind them to pay their bill and provide a
lazy/easy way to do that.

I want that same system to have an engineer app that tells us
when nodes fail and why.

So if a node goes down and it's important, it should show up on
my phone and I can take action.
One of those actions would be to message to outage impacted
customers the ETA to fix etc.

Emails from Cacti don't count.

Re: [AFMUG] Network Monitoring in the 2010's

[Travis Johnson via Af]

It's pretty easy to verify now...

We got 12.3 times EBIDTA, or 3 times our current annual gross revenue, 
however you want to look at it. :)


Travis

On 11/20/2014 2:42 PM, Chuck McCown via Af wrote:

The day is coming when that statement can be verified... ;-)

-Original Message- From: Travis Johnson via Af Microserv. You 
remember, the company that was 10x larger than yours and sold to JAB 
for more, per sub, than any other company so far. :)

Re: [AFMUG] Network Monitoring in the 2010's

[Travis Johnson via Af]

Customer Service is what generates word of mouth referrals. We had 
11,000 wireless customers and we were doing 300+ new installs per 
month... over 50% of those were from word of mouth each month.


Travis

On 11/20/2014 2:54 PM, Josh Luthman via Af wrote:


So you're saying definitely not based on customer service...

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Nov 20, 2014 4:49 PM, "Chuck McCown via Af" <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:


Pretty sure it was based on revenue stream and the quality of the
network.
Canopy based systems got more than Trango or UBNT etc.
*From:* Josh Luthman via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent:* Thursday, November 20, 2014 2:45 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Network Monitoring in the 2010's

I have to think the company was worth more because of location.  I
doubt JAB could care less what the quality of tech support was. 
Another WISP in Utah was another drop in the bucket.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Nov 20, 2014 4:42 PM, "Chuck McCown via Af" mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

The day is coming when that statement can be verified... ;-)

        -Original Message- From: Travis Johnson via Af
Microserv. You remember, the company that was 10x larger than
yours and sold to JAB for more, per sub, than any other
company so far. :)

Re: [AFMUG] Network Monitoring in the 2010's

[Travis Johnson via Af]

I wasn't responding to get into an argument with you. You are obviously 
free to do whatever you want, and handle your customers however you see 
fit. I was simply explaining from my perspective what I am seeing today, 
and what I saw while building Microserv. You remember, the company that 
was 10x larger than yours and sold to JAB for more, per sub, than any 
other company so far. :)


I also own part of the fastest growing software companies in Utah. We 
have 20+ full-time developers and current customers like Nike, Google, 
eBay, Nordstroms, Toms, Disney and Vistaprint to name a few. The company 
has been in business for less than a year and already has a valuation of 
$6,000,000 from a national institutional investor that invested a month 
ago. I'm pretty familiar with the software development scene, especially 
in Utah. :)


Good luck with your app, I hope it works out for you.

Travis

On 11/20/2014 2:19 PM, Sterling Jacobson via Af wrote:

Wrong on both counts.

I used to be in software development, so like anything else, it's who you know.
I can get this done for a lot less.

And having an app for the customer to view and fix or find problems on their 
own is a differentiator itself.
Every one of my customers I've talked to about this has expressed great 
interest in not having to call in if they can help it.

I'm guessing a few of the older generation won't have a phone or care to use an 
app, they can always call in.

But in general it looks like it will greatly reduce support overhead for the 
ISP and increase customer satisfaction at the same time.

I guess time will tell.

I already have this underway, parts are developed already, but if someone wants 
to help out, let me know!

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson via Af
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 2:15 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Network Monitoring in the 2010's

Sterling,

This sounds like an easy task, but I can tell you as someone that is currently 
developing software, and is starting December 1 to build a simple iPhone app, 
software development is very expensive. My app is a pretty simple... easy to 
use front-end with a cloud based database back-end... yet the quotes I have 
gotten are $50,000 - $75,000. This is from 3 different development companies 
all based in Utah. All of them are busy and each has 20+ full-time developers 
working for them, so they have enough business and must not be totally out of 
line on their quotes.

I said this 10+ years ago, and I'll say it again... customer service is the 
only thing that makes you different than the big cable and telco companies. 
Having a live person that can help people troubleshoot and fix issues is the 
key to keeping people with your service. If you are just going to send them to 
an app on their phones, you become the same as every other provider... and your 
service becomes a commodity just like everyone else.

Travis

On 11/20/2014 1:49 PM, Sterling Jacobson via Af wrote:

BUT, the phones now days are smart enough to know when wifi sucks or goes out 
completely.

They fall back to 3/4G.

Which is awesome, because it could still talk to the service provider end and 
tell the customer the status.

I think this would work better than a green/red light.

The phone App would tell you that your service is correct to the house, but 
that inside it's not talking.
Then walk the customer through a set of standard fix it routines.

That would solve most of our calls right there.

On the back end it just needs to talk to a server process that can get access 
to the device on the side of the house.

The best would be an embedded speed test in the ONT/CPE that could report back 
to the App and say they are getting what they are paying for to the side of 
their house. And then give them suggestions for fixing their crappy wifi.

I bet it wouldn't take much to get this done and working with a few larger 
billing systems and equipment platforms, who's with me??

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof via Af
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 12:35 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Network Monitoring in the 2010's

Part of the problem is so many customers are 100% WiFi now, so unless you have 
a managed router there, you have 2 big problem areas beyond the demarc - the 
customer's router and the customer's WiFi.


-Original Message-
From: Bill Prince via Af
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 1:04 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Network Monitoring in the 2010's

Linktechs built a tool a couple years ago that ran on the customer's PC (WIndows only) 
that would give the customer a "connection health"
indication.  It would monitor the local gateway, and give both a green light 
for connected, plus a reading on the latency.  You go too much beyond that, and 
y

Re: [AFMUG] Network Monitoring in the 2010's

[Travis Johnson via Af]

Sterling,

This sounds like an easy task, but I can tell you as someone that is 
currently developing software, and is starting December 1 to build a 
simple iPhone app, software development is very expensive. My app is a 
pretty simple... easy to use front-end with a cloud based database 
back-end... yet the quotes I have gotten are $50,000 - $75,000. This is 
from 3 different development companies all based in Utah. All of them 
are busy and each has 20+ full-time developers working for them, so they 
have enough business and must not be totally out of line on their quotes.


I said this 10+ years ago, and I'll say it again... customer service is 
the only thing that makes you different than the big cable and telco 
companies. Having a live person that can help people troubleshoot and 
fix issues is the key to keeping people with your service. If you are 
just going to send them to an app on their phones, you become the same 
as every other provider... and your service becomes a commodity just 
like everyone else.


Travis

On 11/20/2014 1:49 PM, Sterling Jacobson via Af wrote:

BUT, the phones now days are smart enough to know when wifi sucks or goes out 
completely.

They fall back to 3/4G.

Which is awesome, because it could still talk to the service provider end and 
tell the customer the status.

I think this would work better than a green/red light.

The phone App would tell you that your service is correct to the house, but 
that inside it's not talking.
Then walk the customer through a set of standard fix it routines.

That would solve most of our calls right there.

On the back end it just needs to talk to a server process that can get access 
to the device on the side of the house.

The best would be an embedded speed test in the ONT/CPE that could report back 
to the App and say they are getting what they are paying for to the side of 
their house. And then give them suggestions for fixing their crappy wifi.

I bet it wouldn't take much to get this done and working with a few larger 
billing systems and equipment platforms, who's with me??

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof via Af
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 12:35 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Network Monitoring in the 2010's

Part of the problem is so many customers are 100% WiFi now, so unless you have 
a managed router there, you have 2 big problem areas beyond the demarc - the 
customer's router and the customer's WiFi.


-Original Message-
From: Bill Prince via Af
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 1:04 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Network Monitoring in the 2010's

Linktechs built a tool a couple years ago that ran on the customer's PC (WIndows only) 
that would give the customer a "connection health"
indication.  It would monitor the local gateway, and give both a green light 
for connected, plus a reading on the latency.  You go too much beyond that, and 
you will get a bunch of false positives when something beyond your local 
network is having some kind of issue (we get our share of these).

I don't think they got much response from it, and I don't think they offer it 
any longer.

bp


On 11/20/2014 9:43 AM, Sterling Jacobson via Af wrote:

What I really want is an integrated system that isn't stuck in the 90's.

I want the customer to have an app on their phone that tells them when
their network is having issues and why.
I want it to also remind them to pay their bill and provide a
lazy/easy way to do that.

I want that same system to have an engineer app that tells us when
nodes fail and why.

So if a node goes down and it's important, it should show up on my
phone and I can take action.
One of those actions would be to message to outage impacted customers
the ETA to fix etc.

Emails from Cacti don't count.

Re: [AFMUG] Network Monitoring in the 2010's

[Travis Johnson via Af]

127.0.0.1


On 11/20/2014 1:02 PM, Chuck McCown via Af wrote:

What is the most reliable pingable IP?
*From:* Travis Johnson via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent:* Thursday, November 20, 2014 12:56 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Network Monitoring in the 2010's
Then every time Google's DNS goes down, all of your customers will be 
calling... LOL


Travis

On 11/20/2014 12:52 PM, Chuck McCown via Af wrote:
As determined by DHCP adds a horrible layer of complexity for a cheap 
and simple device.

How about ping to 8.8.8.8?
*From:* Josh Luthman via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent:* Thursday, November 20, 2014 12:41 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Network Monitoring in the 2010's
Red/green light for successful DNS and ping to a server determined by 
DHCP

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 1:05 PM, Chuck McCown via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:


What would be the determining factor?  Ping DNS server OK?
*From:* Jason McKemie via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent:* Thursday, November 20, 2014 11:03 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Network Monitoring in the 2010's
A red/green led would probably suffice for this purpose.
On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 12:01 PM, Gino Villarini via Af
mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

We need a “device” that plugs between router and internet
connection with a big screed that says Internet OK! Or
Internef BAD… filter out calls with customer having issues
with wifi
Gino A. Villarini
President
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
www.aeronetpr.com <http://www.aeronetpr.com>
@aeronetpr
From: "af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>" mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>" mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Date: Thursday, November 20, 2014 at 1:47 PM
To: "af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>" mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Network Monitoring in the 2010's
*An app for my phone?  Yuck
*Something that pushes to cutomers letting them know we're
having issues?  Yuck
*Something that let's the customer verify their particular
service is good/not? That'd be great!
*Web portal for billing, easy peasy
Why a node fails probably won't be detectable by a machine -
in some cases it's difficult for a person to narrow it down
(radio, connectors, cables, ethernet, surge, etc) but I'd
like to see ideas on this of course.
I use/suggest an outgoing message.  IF the customer is having
issues and they do call us, they hear we're having issues and
hang up.  This means that we're not telling 100 people there
are issues when 25 are effecting ending up with 75 calls next
month saying we owe them a credit when they had nothing to do
with an outage.
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 12:43 PM, Sterling Jacobson via Af
mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

What I really want is an integrated system that isn't
stuck in the 90's.

I want the customer to have an app on their phone that
tells them when their network is having issues and why.
I want it to also remind them to pay their bill and
provide a lazy/easy way to do that.

I want that same system to have an engineer app that
tells us when nodes fail and why.

So if a node goes down and it's important, it should show
up on my phone and I can take action.
One of those actions would be to message to outage
impacted customers the ETA to fix etc.

Emails from Cacti don't count.

Re: [AFMUG] Network Monitoring in the 2010's

[Travis Johnson via Af]

Then every time Google's DNS goes down, all of your customers will be 
calling... LOL


Travis

On 11/20/2014 12:52 PM, Chuck McCown via Af wrote:
As determined by DHCP adds a horrible layer of complexity for a cheap 
and simple device.

How about ping to 8.8.8.8?
*From:* Josh Luthman via Af 
*Sent:* Thursday, November 20, 2014 12:41 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Network Monitoring in the 2010's
Red/green light for successful DNS and ping to a server determined by DHCP
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 1:05 PM, Chuck McCown via Af > wrote:


What would be the determining factor?  Ping DNS server OK?
*From:* Jason McKemie via Af 
*Sent:* Thursday, November 20, 2014 11:03 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Network Monitoring in the 2010's
A red/green led would probably suffice for this purpose.
On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 12:01 PM, Gino Villarini via Af
mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

We need a “device” that plugs between router and internet
connection with a big screed that says Internet OK! Or
Internef BAD… filter out calls with customer having issues
with wifi
Gino A. Villarini
President
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
www.aeronetpr.com 
@aeronetpr
From: "af@afmug.com " mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com " mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Date: Thursday, November 20, 2014 at 1:47 PM
To: "af@afmug.com " mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Network Monitoring in the 2010's
*An app for my phone?  Yuck
*Something that pushes to cutomers letting them know we're
having issues?  Yuck
*Something that let's the customer verify their particular
service is good/not?  That'd be great!
*Web portal for billing, easy peasy
Why a node fails probably won't be detectable by a machine -
in some cases it's difficult for a person to narrow it down
(radio, connectors, cables, ethernet, surge, etc) but I'd like
to see ideas on this of course.
I use/suggest an outgoing message. IF the customer is having
issues and they do call us, they hear we're having issues and
hang up.  This means that we're not telling 100 people there
are issues when 25 are effecting ending up with 75 calls next
month saying we owe them a credit when they had nothing to do
with an outage.
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 12:43 PM, Sterling Jacobson via Af
mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

What I really want is an integrated system that isn't
stuck in the 90's.

I want the customer to have an app on their phone that
tells them when their network is having issues and why.
I want it to also remind them to pay their bill and
provide a lazy/easy way to do that.

I want that same system to have an engineer app that tells
us when nodes fail and why.

So if a node goes down and it's important, it should show
up on my phone and I can take action.
One of those actions would be to message to outage
impacted customers the ETA to fix etc.

Emails from Cacti don't count.

Re: [AFMUG] Mark Cuban on Net Neutrality: "The Government Will Fuck the Internet Up"

[Travis Johnson via Af]

Didn't that basically already happen to Detroit? :)

Travis

On 11/14/2014 9:16 AM, Nate Burke via Af wrote:
I just finished reading a book that was gov't reports compiled from 
the 60's  What I took away from it was if there was just 1 city in the 
US that was attacked, it would disrupt the entire country.  The 
countrywide healthcare system could not handle the number of 
casualties, Transportation and movement of goods would be disrupted 
and general paranoia would set in.  There didn't need to be  full 
scale attack to bring the country to it's knees.  I think their 
example city was Detroit, and it had far reaching consequences.




On 11/14/2014 9:58 AM, Josh Luthman via Af wrote:
Everyone knows that.  It's when you encounter nuclear strikes nearby 
that you begin to change things...



Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 10:56 AM, Chuck McCown via Af > wrote:


But I never got to use my bomb shelter!  I still have a radiation
detector around here somewhere and my 1965 civil defense handbook
they gave out at school.
Did you know that you can survive under a sheet of plywood if you
put it in the corner of your basement on cinder blocks with bags
of sand on top!  Like... who knew!
*From:* Josh Luthman via Af 
*Sent:* Friday, November 14, 2014 8:50 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Mark Cuban on Net Neutrality: "The
Government Will Fuck the Internet Up"
Not unused at all...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLCF7vPanrY
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 10:45 AM, Chuck McCown via Af
mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

How about nuclear weapons? We sure did those right.
Shame for them to go unused, don't you think...?
*From:* Cameron Crum via Af 
*Sent:* Friday, November 14, 2014 5:48 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Mark Cuban on Net Neutrality: "The
Government Will Fuck the Internet Up"

Of course all those things were 50 to almost 100 years ago.
NASA is pretty much a joke these days using old faulty
Russian boosters, and we are firing the best and brightest in
our military. I doubt we could go to the moon or win a global
conflict these days. Sad really.

On Nov 13, 2014 7:05 PM, "Josh Reynolds via Af" mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

USA: WWI & WWII Back-To-Back Champs

On 11/13/2014 03:56 PM, Bill Prince via Af wrote:

WWII came out better than most people expected.

bp


On 11/13/2014 4:29 PM, Mike Hammett via Af wrote:

What hasn't the government fucked up?



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

- Original Message -
From: Eric Kuhnke via Af mailto:af@afmug.com
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 18:10:08 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mark Cuban on Net Neutrality: "The
Government Will Fuck the Internet Up"

considering that mark cuban's hero is Ayn Rand:


https://www.google.ca/search?q=mark+cuban+ayn+rand&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb&gfe_rd=cr&ei=NUhlVKGZJKibkgLHhoGgDA




Juvenile philosophy.

On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 4:06 PM, Mike Hammett via Af
mailto:af@afmug.com wrote:



http://reason.com/blog/2014/11/13/markcuban-on-net-neutrality-the-governme




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com









-- 
josh reynolds :: chief information officer

spitwspots ::www.spitwspots.com  

Re: [AFMUG] Holy Grail

[Travis Johnson via Af]

I agree that the only thing that has changed is speed... but what do you 
expect? The PC hasn't changed much in 30 years... just faster... it 
still does the same thing it did 30 years ago, just faster.


Travis

On 10/24/2014 11:22 PM, That One Guy via Af wrote:
Sterling, thank you! I think you and me must be the only ones who can 
see the elephant.. OH LOOKY LOOKY AC PTMP!!


On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 9:09 PM, Sterling Jacobson via Af 
mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:


Is it just me, or is no one realizing that we are still not that
far from 2005 with wireless.

Yes, we have 300-1Gbps capable radios.

But they trade that for larger channel allocations and even more
signal to noise requirements.

But the spectrum allocations haven’t changed enough to use these
new features to their fullest in a radio dense environment.

When doing cost analysis in my area last year for wireless I
realized I had to forklift upgrade most of my network, and build
towers out in a half mile range.

This was to get the 30Mbps plan rates to really work.

The costs were skyrocketing because of all the towers and sectors.

I think the real winners of late are still the rural and low
density wireless provider domains.

They are the ones with clean enough spectrum to cost this
competitively.

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza via Af
*Sent:* Friday, October 24, 2014 6:41 PM
*To:* Animal Farm
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Holy Grail

Bring out the Holy Grenade of Antioch...

Jaime Solorza

On Oct 24, 2014 5:56 PM, "Jayson Baker via Af" mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

Anyone else get this email?

Anyone know what it is?




--
All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that 
the parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if 
you can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all 
means, do not use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925

Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

[Travis Johnson via Af]

Even someone as big as FedEx is in serious trouble about their 
subcontractor people:


http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2014/10/07/3576714/fedex-driver-misclassification-kansas/

Travis

On 10/24/2014 10:21 AM, Hass, Douglas A. via Af wrote:


I love the Vrdolyak ads.  They don’t go to trial any more often than 
anyone else, but it’s a hoot.


It is true that most cases don’t go to trial, but defending a 
frivolous or meritless lawsuit is very different from defending one 
with merit.  In this situation, failing to pay minimum wage and 
overtime is a matter of facts: either you did and you can prove it or 
you didn’t and you’re likely on the hook for substantial damages and 
plaintiff’s attorney fees.  When I say it is easier to deal with this 
on the front end, I mean that classifying employees properly now will 
help avoid lawsuits, settlements, and trials later.


Doug

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof via Af
*Sent:* Friday, October 24, 2014 11:05 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

Being wrong never stopped someone from filing a lawsuit.

You’d think at least it would keep them from finding a lawyer to take 
the case on contingency.  But most lawsuits are settled out of court 
anyway.  I think some lawyers wouldn’t know what to do if they 
actually had to go to trial rather than just send threatening letters.


There’s a politically connected law firm Vrdolyak Law Group here in 
Chicago (specializing in personal injury and workmans comp cases) that 
runs radio ads telling you to ask your law firm when was the last time 
they actually litigated a case in front of a jury.


http://www.vrdolyak.com/?menu=radio

*From:*Hass, Douglas A. via Af 

*Sent:*Friday, October 24, 2014 10:33 AM

*To:*mailto:af@afmug.com

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

I have to do something! :-) I hate getting calls from business owners 
who are trying to figure out how not to file bankruptcy because of the 
lawsuit they just got. Dealing with these things on the front end is 
always easier, faster, and less expensive.


-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jay Weekley via Af
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2014 10:15 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

Doug will scare the bejesus out of you.

Hass, Douglas A. via Af wrote:
>
>
> Cameron--When you owned your WISP, you dodged a bullet. Your
> installers were quite likely employees, not contractors. J
>
> Quick note for everyone on this list: if you have ANYONE that you’re
> paying on a contract basis to do work for your business (cash, 1099,
> etc.) and NOT as an employee, hit me up off list. You’re quite likely
> betting your company’s future existence on it. Some rolls of the dice
> come out o.k., as with Cameron’s situation. Many times they don’t. If
> you get a claim, you could lose your WISP. Wage and hour mistakes are
> that serious.
>
> *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Cameron Crum
> via Af
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 23, 2014 10:21 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment
>
> When I owned a wisp my installers were contractors so I made them
> bring their own tools. I figured they'd take better care if them.
> Then, while changing a radio on a customers house I found a Dewalt
> cordless drill on top of the chimney. I asked the owner if it was
> his, and he said no. I asked my installer the next day. Turns out he
> left it there almost a year earlier. Go figure.
>
> On Oct 23, 2014 10:14 PM, "That One Guy via Af" mailto:af@afmug.com%20%0b>> > wrote:
>
> I lost a ladder (pretty sure i left it behind a house after a loong
> full day install) I replaced it, had I not, I would have expected my
> employer to fire me.
>
> I fried a 500 dollar switch because I pulled an old radio off a tower
> but never disconnected the POE, it shorted out. I offered to pay but
> the boss wrote it off, I didnt turn in the equivalent amount of
> overtime to offset the cost. I was not happy I wasnt held accountable.
>
> I lost a surveillance camera, so I had them order a replacement and
> deduct it from my pay, after it arrived, I found the first one on the
> shelf in the van where I looked three times, I now have a camera, I
> should have been fired at this point, three substantial items in under
> 5 years.
>
> I had a #10 wrench slide off a roof into the snow never to be seen
> again, I didnt like that wrench anyway so i went to the hardware store
> and bough a ratchet wrench on the bosses dime.
>
> There is expected loss, the occasional hand tool, broken drill bits,
> zip ties, etc. but pretty much anything over 50 bucks, unless its a
> pretty valid reason should be the employees responsibility. You owners
> pay us to do a job, as with any job the things you provide cost you
> real money, youre not p

Re: [AFMUG] Employee damaging equipment

[Travis Johnson via Af]

This is the exact reason we implemented "profit sharing". Our employees 
received bonuses based on how many installs/fixes/pick-ups they did per 
month... however, the contract stated we could deduct for any missing 
tools, damage to vehicles, etc.


Amazing that all of those type of problems disappeared almost instantly. :)

Travis

On 10/23/2014 6:47 PM, Josh Reynolds via Af wrote:
Federal labor law says you can't hold employees financial responsible 
for broken/lost tools. (from my understanding)


Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com 

On 10/23/2014 04:22 PM, Glen Waldrop via Af wrote:

How do you guys handle it when an employee damages or loses equipment?

This is my baby brother's first job. He tied the ladder and it fell 
out of the truck, no where to be found.


He said he's going to either get me one or pay me back, just curious 
how everyone else handles this.


I've never run into it yet.
�

Re: [AFMUG] Vivint wireless

[Travis Johnson via Af]

What's more amazing is the valuation/sale they just received about a 
year ago... the founder sold 50% of the company for $2bn.


$360 million a year in revenue, even at 50% profit margin, is $180 
million profit. It will take 11 years to make that money back, but they 
only own 50%... so it would take 22 years to make that money back. They 
must see huge potential with the company and future projects.


Travis

On 10/23/2014 10:44 AM, Bill Prince via Af wrote:
Vivint claims an installed base of 800,000 and $30 million in monthly 
revenue (http://www.vivint.com/company/about-us). That's not chump change.


It would appear that their fixed wireless internet product is a small 
part of their overall enterprise.

bp

On 10/23/2014 8:55 AM, Ken Hohhof via Af wrote:
Is it kind of a Trojan Horse thing?  Get in the door selling 
Internet, then sell them home security and that’s where they make the 
real money?
BTW, I’m not knocking that approach.  I think we underestimate the 
power of DISH, Direct, VZ/AT&T Wireless, they are already inside the 
castle walls and upselling the customer to increase their ARPU.  As 
you drive around your coverage area, imagine you had the email 
address and phone number of every target customer, and were already 
billing them monthly, and could stick flyers in the bills, and send 
texts to their phones, and to the customer your service was just 
another line item in that bundle.  Of course they may also hate you, 
but you have to rise to a pretty high hate level for people to cancel 
their bundle.

*From:* Travis Johnson via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent:* Thursday, October 23, 2014 10:09 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vivint wireless
20,000 - 30,000 subs in a year and half is great... but they have 
probably $20mm into it, and they are dumping more money (millions) 
into it as well it's a "play" thing for them. Kind of like 
Google's "fiber across the ocean" project... something cool, but not 
really your core business.


Travis

On 10/23/2014 8:51 AM, Mike Hammett via Af wrote:

Yeah, but they got that far...  in a year? Year and a half?



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>

----------------
*From: *"Travis Johnson via Af" mailto:af@afmug.com
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Thursday, October 23, 2014 9:30:28 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Vivint wireless

Well, they only have about 150,000 more subs to go... :)

Travis

On 10/23/2014 6:35 AM, Mike Hammett via Af wrote:

*nods* They've been doing this for over a year. Last year at
WISPAPALOOZA they had like 30 people there. Some expect them to
overtake JAB as the largest WISP in the states.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>


*From: *"TJ Trout via Af" mailto:af@afmug.com
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Wednesday, October 22, 2014 11:43:02 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Vivint wireless

Where have you been? Lol search the list :]

On Oct 22, 2014 8:39 PM, "Jaime Solorza via Af" mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

Spoke to young guys from Vivint
Today at lunch and they are beta testing 50 x 50 mbps
wireless using a fiber fed hub and then cover a
neighborhood. Testing here and Utah somewhere.  They work
for automation branch and didnt know particulars.   Anyone
hear about this?
Jaime Solorza

Re: [AFMUG] Vivint wireless

[Travis Johnson via Af]

They have been in my area for about a year (trying door to door sales 
for home security, etc.) and have gained NO traction at all.


Travis

On 10/23/2014 8:53 AM, Cameron Crum via Af wrote:

Door to door sales...seems to work.

On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 9:51 AM, Mike Hammett via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:


Yeah, but they got that far...  in a year? Year and a half?



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>

------------
    *From: *"Travis Johnson via Af" mailto:af@afmug.com>>
*To: *af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent: *Thursday, October 23, 2014 9:30:28 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Vivint wireless

Well, they only have about 150,000 more subs to go... :)

Travis

On 10/23/2014 6:35 AM, Mike Hammett via Af wrote:

*nods* They've been doing this for over a year. Last year at
WISPAPALOOZA they had like 30 people there. Some expect them
to overtake JAB as the largest WISP in the states.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>


*From: *"TJ Trout via Af"  <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*To: *af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent: *Wednesday, October 22, 2014 11:43:02 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Vivint wireless

Where have you been? Lol search the list :]

On Oct 22, 2014 8:39 PM, "Jaime Solorza via Af" mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

Spoke to young guys from Vivint
Today at lunch and they are beta testing 50 x 50 mbps
wireless using a fiber fed hub and then cover a
neighborhood. Testing here and Utah somewhere.  They work
for automation branch and didnt know particulars.   Anyone
hear about this?
Jaime Solorza

Re: [AFMUG] Vivint wireless

[Travis Johnson via Af]

20,000 - 30,000 subs in a year and half is great... but they have 
probably $20mm into it, and they are dumping more money (millions) into 
it as well it's a "play" thing for them. Kind of like Google's 
"fiber across the ocean" project... something cool, but not really your 
core business.


Travis

On 10/23/2014 8:51 AM, Mike Hammett via Af wrote:

Yeah, but they got that far...  in a year? Year and a half?



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>

----------------
*From: *"Travis Johnson via Af" 
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Thursday, October 23, 2014 9:30:28 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Vivint wireless

Well, they only have about 150,000 more subs to go... :)

Travis

On 10/23/2014 6:35 AM, Mike Hammett via Af wrote:

*nods* They've been doing this for over a year. Last year at
WISPAPALOOZA they had like 30 people there. Some expect them to
overtake JAB as the largest WISP in the states.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>


*From: *"TJ Trout via Af" 
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Wednesday, October 22, 2014 11:43:02 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Vivint wireless

Where have you been? Lol search the list :]

On Oct 22, 2014 8:39 PM, "Jaime Solorza via Af" mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

Spoke to young guys from Vivint
Today at lunch and they are beta testing 50 x 50 mbps wireless
using a fiber fed hub and then cover a neighborhood.  Testing
here and Utah somewhere. They work for automation branch and
didnt know particulars.   Anyone hear about this?
Jaime Solorza

Re: [AFMUG] Vivint wireless

[Travis Johnson via Af]

Well, they only have about 150,000 more subs to go... :)

Travis

On 10/23/2014 6:35 AM, Mike Hammett via Af wrote:
*nods* They've been doing this for over a year. Last year at 
WISPAPALOOZA they had like 30 people there. Some expect them to 
overtake JAB as the largest WISP in the states.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com




*From: *"TJ Trout via Af" 
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Wednesday, October 22, 2014 11:43:02 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Vivint wireless

Where have you been? Lol search the list :]

On Oct 22, 2014 8:39 PM, "Jaime Solorza via Af" > wrote:


Spoke to young guys from Vivint
Today at lunch and they are beta testing 50 x 50 mbps wireless
using a fiber fed hub and then cover a neighborhood.  Testing here
and Utah somewhere.  They work for automation branch and didnt
know particulars. Anyone hear about this?
Jaime Solorza

Re: [AFMUG] SM Isolation question

[Travis Johnson via Af]

I haven't seen the same results... every single company I am involved 
with, and even the 20+ that I have met with over the last three months 
have all used Quickbooks.


Travis

On 10/16/2014 8:12 AM, Ken Hohhof via Af wrote:
I would not use anything related to Quickbooks as an example of the 
best way to do something.

Your only choices from Intuit are how you get screwed, not whether.
*From:* Travis Johnson via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent:* Thursday, October 16, 2014 9:02 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SM Isolation question
How do you figure? Everything will eventually be SaaS... and it's a 
much better model for both sides. The software stays updated and 
current and bug fixes are instant. The initial cost to start with the 
software is usually 1/10th what it would be to buy, and it allows 
people to use the software from anywhere.


Many years ago, I was of the same opinion. Then I started to realize 
my time (or anyone else's time) was better spent focusing on the 
product we sold rather than installing/fixing/supporting someone 
else's software.


I know I personally spent at least 50+ hours over the previous 15 
years installing/fixing/supporting Quickbooks on our LAN. Getting it 
installed on a server, setting up the shares, mapping drive letters, 
installing it on each PC, etc. The software cost us $500 to buy, and 
then the yearly updates were usually $200-$300. Or you can subscribe 
to the online version for $39/month and be done with it. It's 
automatically backed up, you don't have to host it on your own server, 
or worry about upgrade issues or users with problems, etc.


Time is money. Spend your time doing what you know how to do, and hire 
someone else to do the other tasks. :)


Travis

On 10/15/2014 9:31 PM, Tyler Treat via Af wrote:

True story.

___
Mangled by my iPhone.
___
Tyler Treat
Corn Belt Technologies, Inc.
tyler.tr...@cornbelttech.com <mailto:tyler.tr...@cornbelttech.com>
___

On Oct 15, 2014, at 10:30 PM, Jason McKemie via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:


Yeah, SaaS is great for the company that owns it, not so great for 
everyone else.


On Wednesday, October 15, 2014, Travis Johnson via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:


Nope... mainly SaaS companies and real estate. Best of both
worlds. :)

Travis

On 10/15/2014 3:40 PM, Gino Villarini via Af wrote:

Someone told me you were getting into manufacturing��



Gino A. Villarini
President
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
www.aeronetpr.com <http://www.aeronetpr.com>
        @aeronetpr






On 10/15/14, 5:31 PM, "Travis Johnson via Af" 
wrote:

It just depends on the day... :)

Involved in 11 companies now, and looking at a 12th.
Always stuff going
on. LOL

Travis

On 10/15/2014 3:16 PM, Gino Villarini via Af wrote:

Travis, are you getting bored at your current job? Lol!!

Great to see you active in the list!



Gino A. Villarini
President
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
www.aeronetpr.com <http://www.aeronetpr.com>
        @aeronetpr






On 10/15/14, 4:14 PM, "Travis Johnson via Af"
 wrote:

The other issue is p2p traffic between two
people on the same AP
and
if you are doing bandwidth shaping in your
router, even at the tower,
you will never see these packets. Or in the case
the original poster
asked about, that customer could keep a high-def
window open of all
their video cameras at the other location, using
3-4Mbps of constant
traffic, and you would never see it.

Travis

On 10/15/2014 1:48 PM, George Skorup (Cyber
Broadcasting) via Af wrote:

When you forward SM-to-SM traffic upstream,
there's nothing the router
can do about it. Put the two locations on
different IP subnets so that
traffic between the two has to be routed. Or
turn off SM isolation.

I leave SM isolation off because I'm not
that paranoid. The biggest
risk is broadcast/multicast crap flying
around. So use the SM uplink
broadcast/multicast rate limiting. This is
one of the best 

Re: [AFMUG] SM Isolation question

[Travis Johnson via Af]

How do you figure? Everything will eventually be SaaS... and it's a much 
better model for both sides. The software stays updated and current and 
bug fixes are instant. The initial cost to start with the software is 
usually 1/10th what it would be to buy, and it allows people to use the 
software from anywhere.


Many years ago, I was of the same opinion. Then I started to realize my 
time (or anyone else's time) was better spent focusing on the product we 
sold rather than installing/fixing/supporting someone else's software.


I know I personally spent at least 50+ hours over the previous 15 years 
installing/fixing/supporting Quickbooks on our LAN. Getting it installed 
on a server, setting up the shares, mapping drive letters, installing it 
on each PC, etc. The software cost us $500 to buy, and then the yearly 
updates were usually $200-$300. Or you can subscribe to the online 
version for $39/month and be done with it. It's automatically backed up, 
you don't have to host it on your own server, or worry about upgrade 
issues or users with problems, etc.


Time is money. Spend your time doing what you know how to do, and hire 
someone else to do the other tasks. :)


Travis

On 10/15/2014 9:31 PM, Tyler Treat via Af wrote:

True story.

___
Mangled by my iPhone.
___

Tyler Treat
Corn Belt Technologies, Inc.

tyler.tr...@cornbelttech.com <mailto:tyler.tr...@cornbelttech.com>
___


On Oct 15, 2014, at 10:30 PM, Jason McKemie via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:


Yeah, SaaS is great for the company that owns it, not so great for 
everyone else.


On Wednesday, October 15, 2014, Travis Johnson via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:


Nope... mainly SaaS companies and real estate. Best of both
worlds. :)

Travis

On 10/15/2014 3:40 PM, Gino Villarini via Af wrote:

Someone told me you were getting into manufacturing��



Gino A. Villarini
President
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
www.aeronetpr.com <http://www.aeronetpr.com>
    @aeronetpr






On 10/15/14, 5:31 PM, "Travis Johnson via Af" 
wrote:

It just depends on the day... :)

Involved in 11 companies now, and looking at a 12th.
Always stuff going
on. LOL

Travis

On 10/15/2014 3:16 PM, Gino Villarini via Af wrote:

Travis, are you getting bored at your current job? Lol!!

Great to see you active in the list!



Gino A. Villarini
President
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
www.aeronetpr.com <http://www.aeronetpr.com>
        @aeronetpr






On 10/15/14, 4:14 PM, "Travis Johnson via Af"
 wrote:

The other issue is p2p traffic between two people
on the same AP
and
if you are doing bandwidth shaping in your
router, even at the tower,
you will never see these packets. Or in the case
the original poster
asked about, that customer could keep a high-def
window open of all
their video cameras at the other location, using
3-4Mbps of constant
traffic, and you would never see it.

Travis

On 10/15/2014 1:48 PM, George Skorup (Cyber
Broadcasting) via Af wrote:

When you forward SM-to-SM traffic upstream,
there's nothing the router
can do about it. Put the two locations on
different IP subnets so that
traffic between the two has to be routed. Or
turn off SM isolation.

I leave SM isolation off because I'm not that
paranoid. The biggest
risk is broadcast/multicast crap flying
around. So use the SM uplink
broadcast/multicast rate limiting. This is
one of the best features of
Canopy, IMO.

On 10/15/2014 2:23 PM, Christopher Tyler via
Af wrote:

We have a customer that has two SM's on
the same AP at separate
physical locations (home and office). The
have a DVR at each location
that they want to view. Everything is
configured properly on their

Re: [AFMUG] SM Isolation question

[Travis Johnson via Af]

Nope... mainly SaaS companies and real estate. Best of both worlds. :)

Travis

On 10/15/2014 3:40 PM, Gino Villarini via Af wrote:

Someone told me you were getting into manufacturing��



Gino A. Villarini
President
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
www.aeronetpr.com
@aeronetpr






On 10/15/14, 5:31 PM, "Travis Johnson via Af"  wrote:


It just depends on the day... :)

Involved in 11 companies now, and looking at a 12th. Always stuff going
on. LOL

Travis

On 10/15/2014 3:16 PM, Gino Villarini via Af wrote:

Travis, are you getting bored at your current job? Lol!!

Great to see you active in the list!



Gino A. Villarini
President
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
www.aeronetpr.com
@aeronetpr






On 10/15/14, 4:14 PM, "Travis Johnson via Af"  wrote:


The other issue is p2p traffic between two people on the same AP
and
if you are doing bandwidth shaping in your router, even at the tower,
you will never see these packets. Or in the case the original poster
asked about, that customer could keep a high-def window open of all
their video cameras at the other location, using 3-4Mbps of constant
traffic, and you would never see it.

Travis

On 10/15/2014 1:48 PM, George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) via Af wrote:

When you forward SM-to-SM traffic upstream, there's nothing the router
can do about it. Put the two locations on different IP subnets so that
traffic between the two has to be routed. Or turn off SM isolation.

I leave SM isolation off because I'm not that paranoid. The biggest
risk is broadcast/multicast crap flying around. So use the SM uplink
broadcast/multicast rate limiting. This is one of the best features of
Canopy, IMO.

On 10/15/2014 2:23 PM, Christopher Tyler via Af wrote:

We have a customer that has two SM's on the same AP at separate
physical locations (home and office). The have a DVR at each location
that they want to view. Everything is configured properly on their
end to view the DVR's on port 80 through their routers.   Problem is
that we have SM isolation turned on with option 2 to forward packets
upstream and they want to see the home when at the office and the
office when at home.

So I set up a mangle rule in my Mikortik to mark the packets with a
routing mark based on the SRC and DST addresses, and then used a
static route for anything what that mark and send it back to the AP
port. It doesn't work, what am I doing wrong, any suggestions short
of disabling SM isolation?

Re: [AFMUG] SM Isolation question

[Travis Johnson via Af]

It just depends on the day... :)

Involved in 11 companies now, and looking at a 12th. Always stuff going 
on. LOL


Travis

On 10/15/2014 3:16 PM, Gino Villarini via Af wrote:

Travis, are you getting bored at your current job? Lol!!

Great to see you active in the list!



Gino A. Villarini
President
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
www.aeronetpr.com
@aeronetpr






On 10/15/14, 4:14 PM, "Travis Johnson via Af"  wrote:


The other issue is p2p traffic between two people on the same AP and
if you are doing bandwidth shaping in your router, even at the tower,
you will never see these packets. Or in the case the original poster
asked about, that customer could keep a high-def window open of all
their video cameras at the other location, using 3-4Mbps of constant
traffic, and you would never see it.

Travis

On 10/15/2014 1:48 PM, George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) via Af wrote:

When you forward SM-to-SM traffic upstream, there's nothing the router
can do about it. Put the two locations on different IP subnets so that
traffic between the two has to be routed. Or turn off SM isolation.

I leave SM isolation off because I'm not that paranoid. The biggest
risk is broadcast/multicast crap flying around. So use the SM uplink
broadcast/multicast rate limiting. This is one of the best features of
Canopy, IMO.

On 10/15/2014 2:23 PM, Christopher Tyler via Af wrote:

We have a customer that has two SM's on the same AP at separate
physical locations (home and office). The have a DVR at each location
that they want to view. Everything is configured properly on their
end to view the DVR's on port 80 through their routers.   Problem is
that we have SM isolation turned on with option 2 to forward packets
upstream and they want to see the home when at the office and the
office when at home.

So I set up a mangle rule in my Mikortik to mark the packets with a
routing mark based on the SRC and DST addresses, and then used a
static route for anything what that mark and send it back to the AP
port. It doesn't work, what am I doing wrong, any suggestions short
of disabling SM isolation?

Re: [AFMUG] SM Isolation question

[Travis Johnson via Af]

It just depends on the day... :)

Involved in 11 companies now, and looking at a 12th. Always stuff going 
on. LOL


Travis

On 10/15/2014 3:16 PM, Gino Villarini via Af wrote:

Travis, are you getting bored at your current job? Lol!!

Great to see you active in the list!



Gino A. Villarini
President
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
www.aeronetpr.com
@aeronetpr






On 10/15/14, 4:14 PM, "Travis Johnson via Af"  wrote:


The other issue is p2p traffic between two people on the same AP and
if you are doing bandwidth shaping in your router, even at the tower,
you will never see these packets. Or in the case the original poster
asked about, that customer could keep a high-def window open of all
their video cameras at the other location, using 3-4Mbps of constant
traffic, and you would never see it.

Travis

On 10/15/2014 1:48 PM, George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) via Af wrote:

When you forward SM-to-SM traffic upstream, there's nothing the router
can do about it. Put the two locations on different IP subnets so that
traffic between the two has to be routed. Or turn off SM isolation.

I leave SM isolation off because I'm not that paranoid. The biggest
risk is broadcast/multicast crap flying around. So use the SM uplink
broadcast/multicast rate limiting. This is one of the best features of
Canopy, IMO.

On 10/15/2014 2:23 PM, Christopher Tyler via Af wrote:

We have a customer that has two SM's on the same AP at separate
physical locations (home and office). The have a DVR at each location
that they want to view. Everything is configured properly on their
end to view the DVR's on port 80 through their routers.   Problem is
that we have SM isolation turned on with option 2 to forward packets
upstream and they want to see the home when at the office and the
office when at home.

So I set up a mangle rule in my Mikortik to mark the packets with a
routing mark based on the SRC and DST addresses, and then used a
static route for anything what that mark and send it back to the AP
port. It doesn't work, what am I doing wrong, any suggestions short
of disabling SM isolation?

Re: [AFMUG] SM Isolation question

[Travis Johnson via Af]

The other issue is p2p traffic between two people on the same AP and 
if you are doing bandwidth shaping in your router, even at the tower, 
you will never see these packets. Or in the case the original poster 
asked about, that customer could keep a high-def window open of all 
their video cameras at the other location, using 3-4Mbps of constant 
traffic, and you would never see it.


Travis

On 10/15/2014 1:48 PM, George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) via Af wrote:
When you forward SM-to-SM traffic upstream, there's nothing the router 
can do about it. Put the two locations on different IP subnets so that 
traffic between the two has to be routed. Or turn off SM isolation.


I leave SM isolation off because I'm not that paranoid. The biggest 
risk is broadcast/multicast crap flying around. So use the SM uplink 
broadcast/multicast rate limiting. This is one of the best features of 
Canopy, IMO.


On 10/15/2014 2:23 PM, Christopher Tyler via Af wrote:
We have a customer that has two SM's on the same AP at separate 
physical locations (home and office). The have a DVR at each location 
that they want to view. Everything is configured properly on their 
end to view the DVR's on port 80 through their routers.   Problem is 
that we have SM isolation turned on with option 2 to forward packets 
upstream and they want to see the home when at the office and the 
office when at home.


So I set up a mangle rule in my Mikortik to mark the packets with a 
routing mark based on the SRC and DST addresses, and then used a 
static route for anything what that mark and send it back to the AP 
port. It doesn't work, what am I doing wrong, any suggestions short 
of disabling SM isolation?

Re: [AFMUG] SM Isolation question

[Travis Johnson via Af]

We would just provide the customer with IP addresses from different 
subnets off that tower, thus making the packets go through the router at 
the tower.


Travis

On 10/15/2014 1:23 PM, Christopher Tyler via Af wrote:

We have a customer that has two SM's on the same AP at separate physical 
locations (home and office).  The have a DVR at each location that they want to 
view.  Everything is configured properly on their end to view the DVR's on port 
80 through their routers.   Problem is that we have SM isolation turned on with 
option 2 to forward packets upstream and they want to see the home when at the 
office and the office when at home.

So I set up a mangle rule in my Mikortik to mark the packets with a routing 
mark based on the SRC and DST addresses, and then used a static route for 
anything what that mark and send it back to the AP port. It doesn't work, what 
am I doing wrong, any suggestions short of disabling SM isolation?

Re: [AFMUG] Trango coming back to unlicensed pmp/ptp with AC based system

[Travis Johnson via Af]

I was never left high and dry... and I was probably one of their biggest 
customers... we simply "upgraded" to the next technology and kept moving 
forward... just like we had done 3 or 4 times before that.


Travis

On 10/13/2014 9:35 PM, Jason McKemie via Af wrote:
It could be an issue when they bail on ptmp again and leave you high 
and dry...


On Monday, October 13, 2014, Travis Johnson via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:


I would buy it right now if I was in the business. New frequency
band (5.15 to 5.25) and up to 40 clients and 600Mbps of
throughput. What other product on the market can do that right now?

Travis

On 10/13/2014 6:44 PM, Ken Hohhof via Af wrote:
Who are they going to sell it to, with their direct sales model? 
Remember how they went back and forth on that?

*From:* Tyler Treat via Af

*Sent:* Monday, October 13, 2014 7:15 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Trango coming back to unlicensed pmp/ptp
with ACbased system

…you would think.   I know a guy that still thinks it’s the
greatest thing ever….

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] *On
Behalf Of *Jason McKemie via Af
*Sent:* Monday, October 13, 2014 7:07 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Trango coming back to unlicensed pmp/ptp
with AC based system

I would think people would have a bad taste in their mouths from
the way Trango previously handled ptmp.



On Monday, October 13, 2014, Gino Villarini via Af > wrote:


https://www.trangosys.com/news/introducing-new-altum-ac-outdoor-5x-ghz-wireless-system-integrated-wi-fi

Gino A. Villarini

President

Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.

www.aeronetpr.com <http://www.aeronetpr.com>

@aeronetpr

Re: [AFMUG] Trango coming back to unlicensed pmp/ptp with ACbased system

[Travis Johnson via Af]

I would buy it right now if I was in the business. New frequency band 
(5.15 to 5.25) and up to 40 clients and 600Mbps of throughput. What 
other product on the market can do that right now?


Travis

On 10/13/2014 6:44 PM, Ken Hohhof via Af wrote:
Who are they going to sell it to, with their direct sales model?  
Remember how they went back and forth on that?

*From:* Tyler Treat via Af 
*Sent:* Monday, October 13, 2014 7:15 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Trango coming back to unlicensed pmp/ptp with 
ACbased system


…you would think.   I know a guy that still thinks it’s the greatest 
thing ever….


*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jason McKemie 
via Af

*Sent:* Monday, October 13, 2014 7:07 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Trango coming back to unlicensed pmp/ptp with 
AC based system


I would think people would have a bad taste in their mouths from the 
way Trango previously handled ptmp.




On Monday, October 13, 2014, Gino Villarini via Af > wrote:



https://www.trangosys.com/news/introducing-new-altum-ac-outdoor-5x-ghz-wireless-system-integrated-wi-fi

Gino A. Villarini

President

Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.

www.aeronetpr.com 

@aeronetpr

Re: [AFMUG] Trango coming back to unlicensed pmp/ptp with AC based system

[Travis Johnson via Af]

Does it have an LED display? :))

Travis

On 10/13/2014 4:08 PM, Gino Villarini via Af wrote:

https://www.trangosys.com/news/introducing-new-altum-ac-outdoor-5x-ghz-wireless-system-integrated-wi-fi



Gino A. Villarini
President
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
www.aeronetpr.com
@aeronetpr

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Weekend Wispalooza

[Travis Johnson via Af]

In the town of Jackson Hole, Wyoming... any wire carrying ANY amount of 
voltage (even DISH TV coax, plain ethernet (not even PoE), telephone, 
etc.) you have to first get a "permit" from the city before doing the 
installation. It's like a $35 fee and takes up to two weeks.


Travis

On 10/13/2014 12:46 PM, Bill Prince via Af wrote:

A phone cable carries current.

The USB wire to your smart phone carries current.

All wires are designed to carry current.

There should be a distinction about whether the current has the 
potential to be lethal.


Unless you're an electrician.  In which case this makes for super good 
job security.


bp
On 10/13/2014 11:40 AM, Ryan Spott via Af wrote:
Yeah. It was a little ugly. It pretty much boiled down to: if you are 
placing wires that could have current placed on them then you should 
be an electrician. (Read that sentence carefully for humor and horror!)


Just check your local code interpretations to not get smacked.

ryan


--
D. Ryan Spott | Iron Goat Networks, llc
broadband | telco | colo | community
PO Box 1232 / 603 W. Stevens Sultan, WA 98284 

360-799-0552  | gtalk:rsp...@irongoat.net 



On Oct 13, 2014, at 11:01, Sterling Jacobson via Af > wrote:



Oh wow!

That’s like every single WISP operator then!

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ryan Spott via Af
*Sent:* Monday, October 13, 2014 11:45 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Weekend Wispalooza

Check your local electrical codes for wiring power over Ethernet.

Things got sticky in WA state over this issue and it took 
considerable effort to change the electrical rules.


ryan


On Oct 13, 2014, at 07:38, Sterling Jacobson via Af > wrote:


Yeah GigE PoE.

The GigE PoE adapters are cheap and work well with the RB260 models.

I like it that way, then the customer can decide if they want to
put on 100 hours of battery backup or not.

We just maintain the outside device at the Demarc on the side of
their house.

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *CBB - Jay
Fuller via Af
*Sent:* Sunday, October 12, 2014 12:44 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Weekend Wispalooza

stupid question, but i know the fiber mikrotik stuff / demarc
still needs power.  what if the point you enter the house does
not have power right there?  how do you hook that up?  utilize
POE in some shape, form, or fashion?

- Original Message -

*From:*Gino Villarini via Af 

*To:* 

*Sent:*Sunday, October 12, 2014 9:10 AM

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Weekend Wispalooza

Still using the firce10 switches?

Sent from Marconi's and Graham Bell's fused thoughts!!!


On Oct 12, 2014, at 1:35 AM, Sterling Jacobson via Af
mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

Our ROI is 5 years. We fund per neighborhood and usually
come out easily paying out the 5 years monthly on the
loan plus plenty left over for operations.

Our build costs to the home are skewed because we build
at cost.

It’s going to vary a lot by your market and circumstance.

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of
*TJ Trout via Af
*Sent:* Saturday, October 11, 2014 10:58 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Weekend Wispalooza

Any numbers on what it costs to serve an average urban
or suburban neighborhood per home ? Trying to get some
ideas if we can afford the investment in fiber.

Like what would it cost to serve say 100 or 200 homes?
And idea on roi if you were paying for the fiber to be
laid like I will be?

On Oct 11, 2014 9:46 PM, "Sterling Jacobson via Af"
mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

Hybrid model, I bring bandwidth in via wireless to
the neighborhood and set up a cabinet that serves
all the houses in active Ethernet fiber.

GPON is ok, but in this model so much of the expense
was burial of conduit that it really didn’t make
sense to just pull for GPON.

Plus GPON restricts you to a specific vendor market.

My model might not scale to thousands of installs a
month, but it works for hundreds a POP.

A POP is about $15k for 200+ connections completely
contained and redundant.

The end points and fiber construction are on top of
that of course.

That is the major expense, the labor to bore and
trench and splice hella ton of cond

Re: [AFMUG] ObamaCare

[Travis Johnson via Af]

ng us to pay insurance with the promise of
subsidies that they are now going to take away.

Bait and switch.

The whole thing has been a screwup from day one.

It is actually cheaper for me to pay out of pocket than pay
for this insurance, but the fines will get you either way.

- Original Message -

*From:*Rory Conaway via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>

*To:*af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>

*Sent:*Wednesday, October 08, 2014 7:03 PM

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] ObamaCare

And so did the quality and options of your care.  I know
that 2 of my doctors retired early and the other one
doesn’t take Obamacare.   Fortunately I don’t have to use it.

Here is my question though, doesn’t the fact that the
federal government wasted a couple billion dollars of your
taxes on websites that don’t work, companies that are
paying workers to do nothing, and companies that are
friends with the First Lady with no bid process in place?

Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On Behalf Of *Sean Heskett
via Af
*Sent:* Wednesday, October 08, 2014 5:00 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ObamaCare

Please don't forget that this whole "obamacare" thing was
"invented" by the American Heratage Foundation which is a
republican think tank.  And the republicans tried to
squash "Hillarycare" with it in the 1990's.

Be careful what you ask for because you just might get it.

Also, so far in the states that set up their own exchanges
        medical costs and premiums have been going down...mine
sure did :)

2cents

Sean

On Wednesday, October 8, 2014, Travis Johnson via Af
mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

Hi...

I'm not sure exactly how this ObamaCare thing was supposed
to "save everyone money" and provider "better health
care". We just received our group health insurance premium
notice for the upcoming year, and our rates will go up by
10% starting 2015.

On top of that, everyone is now paying a 3% ObamaCare tax
on their personal income taxes. This doesn't really seem
like much of a savings to me... :(

Travis

Re: [AFMUG] ObamaCare

[Travis Johnson via Af]

Be careful what you ask for because you just might get it.

Also, so far in the states that set up their own
        exchanges medical costs and premiums have been going
down...mine sure did :)

2cents

Sean

On Wednesday, October 8, 2014, Travis Johnson via Af
mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

Hi...

I'm not sure exactly how this ObamaCare thing was
supposed to "save everyone money" and provider "better
health care". We just received our group health insurance
premium notice for the upcoming year, and our rates will
go up by 10% starting 2015.

On top of that, everyone is now paying a 3% ObamaCare tax
on their personal income taxes. This doesn't really seem
like much of a savings to me... :(

Travis

Re: [AFMUG] ObamaCare

[Travis Johnson via Af]

ro
chance of overcoming the trillions of dollars companies are
making off of the existing out of control health care system. 
And if they could pass the laws, would anyone trust our

Government to run such a program?  And there is the root problem.

Obviously an over simplification but now back to my real job.

PC

Blaze Broadband

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Rory
Conaway via Af
*Sent:* Thursday, October 9, 2014 12:33 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ObamaCare

People with pre-existing conditions are one of the few groups
benefitting from this.

Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jeremy
via Af
*Sent:* Wednesday, October 08, 2014 7:32 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ObamaCare

We pay about the same as we did but our deductible is lower,
our out of pocket max is lower, and they covered our
pregnancy.  We switched during the first trimester because we
didn't have maternity coverage (no self-insured plans in our
state had it), and Obamacare made pregnancy not count as a
pre-existing condition.  It saved us about $7,000-$8,000 this
year.  The craziest part is that we actually stayed with the
same provider, Select Health (IHC).  It was just the
difference between them providing maternity and not providing
maternity.  We have been very happy with our Obamacare.

On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 6:50 PM, Glen Waldrop via Af
mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

Further the subsidies have been deemed unconstitutional, so
they're forcing us to pay insurance with the promise of
subsidies that they are now going to take away.

Bait and switch.

The whole thing has been a screwup from day one.

It is actually cheaper for me to pay out of pocket than pay
for this insurance, but the fines will get you either way.

- Original Message -

*From:*Rory Conaway via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>

*To:*af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>

*Sent:*Wednesday, October 08, 2014 7:03 PM

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] ObamaCare

And so did the quality and options of your care.  I know
that 2 of my doctors retired early and the other one
doesn’t take Obamacare.   Fortunately I don’t have to use it.

Here is my question though, doesn’t the fact that the
federal government wasted a couple billion dollars of your
taxes on websites that don’t work, companies that are
paying workers to do nothing, and companies that are
friends with the First Lady with no bid process in place?

Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On Behalf Of *Sean Heskett
via Af
*Sent:* Wednesday, October 08, 2014 5:00 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ObamaCare

Please don't forget that this whole "obamacare" thing was
"invented" by the American Heratage Foundation which is a
republican think tank.  And the republicans tried to
squash "Hillarycare" with it in the 1990's.

Be careful what you ask for because you just might get it.

Also, so far in the states that set up their own exchanges
medical costs and premiums have been going down...mine
    sure did :)

2cents

Sean

On Wednesday, October 8, 2014, Travis Johnson via Af
mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

Hi...

I'm not sure exactly how this ObamaCare thing was supposed
to "save everyone money" and provider "better health
care". We just received our group health insurance premium
notice for the upcoming year, and our rates will go up by
10% starting 2015.

On top of that, everyone is now paying a 3% ObamaCare tax
on their personal income taxes. This doesn't really seem
like much of a savings to me... :(

Travis




--
All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that 
the parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if 
you can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all 
means, do not use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925

Re: [AFMUG] ObamaCare

[Travis Johnson via Af]

This sounds good in theory, but it does not provide the same level of 
coverage as we currently provide for all of our employees. We checked 
into this a few years ago, and it was pretty "basic" coverage.


We cover 100% of health, dental and vision for all of my employees AND 
their entire families at NO COST to them. $500 deductible, 80% 
co-insurance, $30 co-pay, $1,000 maximum out of pocket, $1mm maximum per 
person. Dental is the best policy you can buy (example: root canals are 
like $100 total), and vision covers 100% of exams and needs (contacts or 
glasses) per year for $0 cost to the employee.


Travis

On 10/8/2014 10:06 AM, Chuck McCown via Af wrote:
Anyone with 10 employees or more should be self insured. It saves you 
30-50%.  I can put you in touch with a third party administrator that 
will take over all the administrative tasks as well as beating down 
the health care providers on costs and providing a catastrophic stop 
loss policy.

*From:* Paul McCall via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent:* Wednesday, October 08, 2014 10:04 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ObamaCare

My personal went up 60%

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *James Howard via Af
*Sent:* Wednesday, October 08, 2014 12:01 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ObamaCare

Only 10%?!  I was talking to an insurance agent.  He said that on the 
personal policies they didn’t see anything less than a 200% increase 
for this year.


If anyone believed that this was supposed to lower costs or actually 
provide better health care they should probably be looking for some 
bridges they can buy.  I hear there are some really good deals out there!


*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Travis Johnson 
via Af

*Sent:* Wednesday, October 08, 2014 10:42 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* [AFMUG] ObamaCare

Hi...

I'm not sure exactly how this ObamaCare thing was supposed to "save
everyone money" and provider "better health care". We just received our
group health insurance premium notice for the upcoming year, and our
rates will go up by 10% starting 2015.

On top of that, everyone is now paying a 3% ObamaCare tax on their
personal income taxes. This doesn't really seem like much of a savings
to me... :(

Travis



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[AFMUG] ObamaCare

[Travis Johnson via Af]

Hi...

I'm not sure exactly how this ObamaCare thing was supposed to "save 
everyone money" and provider "better health care". We just received our 
group health insurance premium notice for the upcoming year, and our 
rates will go up by 10% starting 2015.


On top of that, everyone is now paying a 3% ObamaCare tax on their 
personal income taxes. This doesn't really seem like much of a savings 
to me... :(


Travis

[AFMUG] name

[Travis Johnson via Af]

Name name... what's in a name?!?!?!?

Rise Broadband is coming...

Re: [AFMUG] credit checks

[Travis Johnson via Af]

That's the same thing we found. Too much work for what you get in 
return... even people with good credit will stop paying the bills they 
know can't really effect their credit score.


Travis

On 10/7/2014 9:00 AM, Sean Heskett via Af wrote:

meh too much work.

get payment upfront for as much as possible (install and first month) 
bill ahead for the month instead of behind and turn off service 
quickly for non-payment.


credit checks are too expensive and bothersome.

2 cents

-sean




On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 8:35 AM, Adam Moffett via Af > wrote:


My mission this morning is to figure out how I'm going to do
credit checks on potential new customers.

While I'm on hold with Experian, I wonder if anybody else is doing
credit checks who can share what they're doing.  What company are
you using?  How much does it cost? How hard was it to get set up?

Re: [AFMUG] How frequently have you had a price increase?

[Travis Johnson via Af]

Wow... you are in a very "noncompetitve" market. My surrounding area has 
CableOne (even into the small communities of 500 people) and they are 
doing 50Mbps x 10Mbps for $35/month for the first 6 months, then it goes 
up to $50/month. Most people claim to get 30-40Mbps any time they run a 
speed test.


Travis

On 10/4/2014 9:32 PM, David Milholen via Af wrote:
We had no choice after deploying the 450 and offering up a handful of 
capacity for a competitive rate which basically put us at capacity in 
less than 6 months with out the numbers we wanted to see. So, since we 
had not raised rates in 10yrs we had no choice but to regroup and look 
at how we compare to our local cable. Really we have the upper hand 
because of what we do as a wireless
industry. The whole hybrid solution is the key. Basically WIsps offer 
fiber to  the home via fixed connections from a fiber carrier. Cable 
isnt even close due to the party line affect. Cambium gives us a 
scheduler that enables a VC per sub so we can imitate carrier class 
connections for a much lower price than what a carrier would serve 
while still making money doing it.
 So we can market a wonderful new buzz word called hybrid until it 
dies we will roll with it but so far the response has been very 
positive for the new price plans we now offer. Our 5x5 plan is a 
5Mbs/5Mbs Down/Up for $75.00 monthly.  We limit our basic which is 3x1 
@ $50.00 to only one video stream @ 768k per one device per account.



On 10/4/2014 7:27 PM, That One Guy via Af wrote:
i rarely have good to say about the way my boss runs things, but he 
is a magician at the rate plan changes. we have never directly raise 
prices, for the most part we have always either kept them the same 
 price or lowered the cost to stay where you are at. usually any rate 
plan changes come with the option to get more for less, knowing full 
well that they ultimately will move up a tier in the future because 
they want more. since we quit directly selling the speed and moved to 
consumption based pricing it gives a lot more leverage to make global 
changes with a limited demand increase on the infrastructure. It 
costs us alot less to offer more consumption than to offer more 
speed, and everything is moving to consumption based anyway, whether 
you like it or not. our absolute lowest tier is marketed as an email 
only plan with a 5gb cap to throttled speed. but we actually moved it 
to 10gb because there were too many hitting 6gb that would have 
needed to move up a tier just to get an extra gb, easier to raise it 
for free, and we still get about a 50% take rate to the next tier 
anyway.  things like that are how we are able to raise prices without 
actually raising prices. Because of it, even though we went through a 
negative customer growth (i like that buzz word) our profits 
increased, and now that we are on a positive customer growth trend, 
that profit increases quickly which is why we just dropped over 100k 
buying up the available 320 market at the time (yeah, we were one of 
the ones that helped cause that). I wish I could provide the specific 
details of the two major rate changes in the last five years, because 
they were both pretty ingenious, ultimately getting customers to 
thank you for raising their prices, just by giving them ownership of 
the decision.


On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 5:12 PM, David Milholen via Af > wrote:


This is what we have done..


On 10/4/2014 4:02 PM, Jon Langeler via Af wrote:

Yeah I wouldn't raise prices on a 900SM customer. Get ready to
overhaul the network with faster options before charging more.
But definitely charge more as opposed to going cheaper. Markets
may vary...

Jon


On Oct 4, 2014, at 4:54 PM, Paul McCall via Af mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:


Very good input from all of you!

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken
Hohhof via Af
*Sent:* Saturday, October 04, 2014 4:32 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] How frequently have you had a price
increase?

Everyone seems to expect our prices will go down, it’s the
Internet after all, everything is supposed to get cheaper until
it’s free, right? We haven’t raised prices in 10 years, and we
are feeling some pressure to lower prices about 10%, I guess
that’s from competition though and it sounds like you don’t
have too much of that problem.

JAB has people here expecting $40/$50/$60 for 5M/10M/15M speed.
They do have an equipment fee and a support plan in the fine
print though.

One school of thought is you gotta have added fees, otherwise
you just look more expensive in a comparison.  (And people do
compare prices, even if the other guys can’t get them service.)
Another school of thought is, if you do a price increase, make
it big enough you don’t have another one in a year.  Although
that never seems to stop the cable c

Re: [AFMUG] How frequently have you had a price increase?

[Travis Johnson via Af]

I think most customers are OK with a small increase (like $45 to $49). 
If you break into the $50 range, you may get some resistance.


You could always do "up to 100Mbit" for $49, since the speeds are "up 
to" anyway. ;)


Travis

On 10/4/2014 2:00 PM, Paul McCall via Af wrote:


We are thinking of raising our prices on our residential  basic plan.  
Some of our customers have been on the same priced plan for 7 years 
(or more).  Around $ 45 / month for "up to 5Mbit/1Mbit".  Probably 25% 
of those customers, we are the only "good" source for Internet.  The 
rest have varying levels of DSL or cable options.


Thinking of bumping those customers to $ 49.  Maybe a little more, 
haven't decided.


How do you handle price changes and/or on your customers on "rolling 
contracts" ?


Paul

Paul McCall, Pres.

PDMNet / Florida Broadband

658 Old Dixie Highway

Vero Beach, FL 32962

772-564-6800 office

772-473-0352 cell

www.pdmnet.com 

pa...@pdmnet.net 

Re: [AFMUG] UBNT

[Travis Johnson via Af]

Ukraine/Russia has nothing to do with UBNT being down 27% in the last 
two weeks. Lots of other tech stocks are up over that same time period.


Travis

On 10/3/2014 2:21 PM, Josh Reynolds via Af wrote:

Ukraine/Russian really jacked things up for investors.

That said, the market is a fickle beast. It could be at $200 tomorrow 
for all anybody knows.


Long term gains > short term profits

Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com <http://www.spitwspots.com>

On 10/03/2014 12:17 PM, Travis Johnson via Af wrote:
Wow... looks like UBNT is struggling on the market the last two 
weeks. Down to $35 today.� Glad I sold at $48 a few weeks ago. :)


Who posted it would be at $75 by year's end? Hope they weren't really 
counting on that...


Travis

[AFMUG] UBNT

[Travis Johnson via Af]

Wow... looks like UBNT is struggling on the market the last two weeks. 
Down to $35 today.  Glad I sold at $48 a few weeks ago. :)


Who posted it would be at $75 by year's end? Hope they weren't really 
counting on that...


Travis

Re: [AFMUG] today's a big day on the stock market.....

[Travis Johnson via Af]

--- [ Travis Johnson  wrote ]:
---The stock market is not a good "long term" investment, in my opinion 
unless you go into a fund like T. Rowe Price Blue Chip (which has 
returned me 30% so far this year). A single stock is just too risky.


The play is the one day in and out game... like this Alibaba stock...

Travis

On 9/19/2014 11:39 AM, Bill Prince via Af wrote:

--- [ Bill Prince  wrote ]:
---


Wait until the euphoria wears off. I'll bet it hits $60 before the end 
of the year.


bp
On 9/19/2014 9:32 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller via Af wrote:

wheit really tanked there. below $91

- Original Message -
*From:* CBB - Jay Fuller via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent:* Friday, September 19, 2014 10:33 AM
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] today's a big day on the stock market.

interesting...i'm listening. lol.

- Original Message -----
*From:* Travis Johnson via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent:* Friday, September 19, 2014 10:16 AM
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] today's a big day on the stock market.

I disagree... I think today will be an amazing ride... people
will make a TON of money if their timing is right.

Travis

On 9/19/2014 9:05 AM, Bill Prince via Af wrote:

I would not touch that offering with a 10 foot pole.  I see
nothing but sorrow.  Too much hype.  Too much unknown.

bp
On 9/19/2014 6:41 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller via Af wrote:

Anyone trying to get in on Alibaba's IPO?
Thoughts?
Comments?
Complaints?

Re: [AFMUG] today's a big day on the stock market.....

[Travis Johnson via Af]

Looks like it's up to $92/share already, before it's even trading. 
That's a 50% return on the initial $68 IPO price.


Travis

On 9/19/2014 9:05 AM, Bill Prince via Af wrote:
I would not touch that offering with a 10 foot pole.  I see nothing 
but sorrow.  Too much hype.  Too much unknown.


bp
On 9/19/2014 6:41 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller via Af wrote:

Anyone trying to get in on Alibaba's IPO?
Thoughts?
Comments?
Complaints?

Re: [AFMUG] today's a big day on the stock market.....

[Travis Johnson via Af]

I disagree... I think today will be an amazing ride... people will make 
a TON of money if their timing is right.


Travis

On 9/19/2014 9:05 AM, Bill Prince via Af wrote:
I would not touch that offering with a 10 foot pole.  I see nothing 
but sorrow.  Too much hype.  Too much unknown.


bp
On 9/19/2014 6:41 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller via Af wrote:

Anyone trying to get in on Alibaba's IPO?
Thoughts?
Comments?
Complaints?

Re: [AFMUG] today's a big day on the stock market.....

[Travis Johnson via Af]

You can only get in on Alibaba if you are a BIG trader... millions of 
shares, etc.


Travis

On 9/19/2014 7:42 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller via Af wrote:

Anyone trying to get in on Alibaba's IPO?
Thoughts?
Comments?
Complaints?