[AFMUG] Ownership of wire / fiber in a building

[Paul McCall]

I know that has been discussed several times in the past, but I recall a few 
variables so I will re-ask the question.

If our company goes into a building and wires (either pre-construction of post 
construction), will a contract legally cover us so that nobody else can come 
around and claim rights to use that to distribute a service also?

Does that "ruling" change it we install conduit as well?

We have a bunch buildings to get "wired" over the next 60 days and I want to 
protect ourselves if at all possible.

Paul

Paul McCall, President
PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
658 Old Dixie Highway
Vero Beach, FL 32962
772-564-6800
pa...@pdmnet.net
www.pdmnet.com
www.floridabroadband.com

Re: [AFMUG] Ownership of wire / fiber in a building

[Justin Wilson]

I have typically ran across the terms “Franchise rights” and “Riser rights” 
when it comes to buildings.

If you have franchise rights you are the only one with rights to provide your 
product to that building.

Riser rights just gives you access to to raceways, risers, etc. for running 
your cable.   You could get exclusive access to such things, but I don’t see 
that as often as franchise rights.  I think this is mainly due to a franchise 
fee is typically higher and more beneficial to the building owner.  

A telco can cry foul and play the fact that telephones are an essential 
service. Even if they can’t legally do anything, they can pressure the building 
owner enough where it becomes an issue. I have seen tenants want to order 
landline phones in buildings where a WISP had exclusive rights.  The tenant is 
going to be favored by the building owner almost every time. 

My advice get exclusive access to any pathways for cable in regards to your 
services with the ability to sublet.  If you can get it, get an exclusive 
franchise for providing data services. 

Justin Wilson
j...@mtin.net

---
http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth

http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric

> On Aug 28, 2016, at 10:26 AM, Paul McCall  wrote:
> 
> I know that has been discussed several times in the past, but I recall a few 
> variables so I will re-ask the question.
>  
> If our company goes into a building and wires (either pre-construction of 
> post construction), will a contract legally cover us so that nobody else can 
> come around and claim rights to use that to distribute a service also?
>  
> Does that “ruling” change it we install conduit as well?
>  
> We have a bunch buildings to get “wired” over the next 60 days and I want to 
> protect ourselves if at all possible.
>  
> Paul
>  
> Paul McCall, President
> PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
> 658 Old Dixie Highway
> Vero Beach, FL 32962
> 772-564-6800  
> pa...@pdmnet.net 
> www.pdmnet.com 
> www.floridabroadband.com 

Re: [AFMUG] Ownership of wire / fiber in a building

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

IF anyone has any paperwork they can share for accomplishing exclusive access 
in a building, i'd love to see it.
thanks ;)

ps - what prevents a tenant from ordering service from a telco themselves not 
realizing such an agreement is in place?




  A telco can cry foul and play the fact that telephones are an essential 
service. Even if they can’t legally do anything, they can pressure the building 
owner enough where it becomes an issue. I have seen tenants want to order 
landline phones in buildings where a WISP had exclusive rights.  The tenant is 
going to be favored by the building owner almost every time. 


  My advice get exclusive access to any pathways for cable in regards to your 
services with the ability to sublet.  If you can get it, get an exclusive 
franchise for providing data services. 


  Justin Wilson
  j...@mtin.net


  ---
  http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
  xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth


  http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
  Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric


On Aug 28, 2016, at 10:26 AM, Paul McCall  wrote:


I know that has been discussed several times in the past, but I recall a 
few variables so I will re-ask the question.

If our company goes into a building and wires (either pre-construction of 
post construction), will a contract legally cover us so that nobody else can 
come around and claim rights to use that to distribute a service also?

Does that “ruling” change it we install conduit as well?

We have a bunch buildings to get “wired” over the next 60 days and I want 
to protect ourselves if at all possible.

Paul

Paul McCall, President
PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
658 Old Dixie Highway
Vero Beach, FL 32962
772-564-6800  
pa...@pdmnet.net
www.pdmnet.com
www.floridabroadband.com

Re: [AFMUG] Ownership of wire / fiber in a building

[Mike Hammett]

I don't believe exclusive contracts are permitted by the FCC. I believe you're 
limited to exclusive marketing. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "CBB - Jay Fuller"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 12:46:46 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ownership of wire / fiber in a building 

 

IF anyone has any paperwork they can share for accomplishing exclusive access 
in a building, i'd love to see it. 
thanks ;) 

ps - what prevents a tenant from ordering service from a telco themselves not 
realizing such an agreement is in place? 






A telco can cry foul and play the fact that telephones are an essential 
service. Even if they can’t legally do anything, they can pressure the building 
owner enough where it becomes an issue. I have seen tenants want to order 
landline phones in buildings where a WISP had exclusive rights. The tenant is 
going to be favored by the building owner almost every time. 


My advice get exclusive access to any pathways for cable in regards to your 
services with the ability to sublet. If you can get it, get an exclusive 
franchise for providing data services. 



Justin Wilson 
j...@mtin.net 


--- 
http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO 
xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth 


http://www.midwest-ix.com COO/Chairman 
Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric 




On Aug 28, 2016, at 10:26 AM, Paul McCall < pa...@pdmnet.net > wrote: 



I know that has been discussed several times in the past, but I recall a few 
variables so I will re-ask the question. 

If our company goes into a building and wires (either pre-construction of post 
construction), will a contract legally cover us so that nobody else can come 
around and claim rights to use that to distribute a service also? 

Does that “ruling” change it we install conduit as well? 

We have a bunch buildings to get “wired” over the next 60 days and I want to 
protect ourselves if at all possible. 

Paul 

Paul McCall, President 
PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc. 
658 Old Dixie Highway 
Vero Beach, FL 32962 
772-564-6800 
pa...@pdmnet.net 
www.pdmnet.com 
www.floridabroadband.com 

Re: [AFMUG] Ownership of wire / fiber in a building

[Nate Burke]

If you can get the contract to be the 'riser management' company, would 
that allow you to set high rates and discourage anyone else from coming 
in?  We've run into that in a few class A buildings. 'Oh, you need a cat 
5 run from floor 3 to floor 5, that will be $5000, and we are the only 
company allowed to do work in the riser.


On 8/28/2016 11:19 AM, Justin Wilson wrote:
I have typically ran across the terms “Franchise rights” and “Riser 
rights” when it comes to buildings.


If you have franchise rights you are the only one with rights to 
provide your product to that building.


Riser rights just gives you access to to raceways, risers, etc. for 
running your cable.   You could get exclusive access to such things, 
but I don’t see that as often as franchise rights.  I think this is 
mainly due to a franchise fee is typically higher and more beneficial 
to the building owner.


A telco can cry foul and play the fact that telephones are an 
essential service. Even if they can’t legally do anything, they can 
pressure the building owner enough where it becomes an issue. I have 
seen tenants want to order landline phones in buildings where a WISP 
had exclusive rights.  The tenant is going to be favored by the 
building owner almost every time.


My advice get exclusive access to any pathways for cable in regards to 
your services with the ability to sublet.  If you can get it, get an 
exclusive franchise for providing data services.


Justin Wilson
j...@mtin.net 

---
http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth

http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric

On Aug 28, 2016, at 10:26 AM, Paul McCall > wrote:


I know that has been discussed several times in the past, but I 
recall a few variables so I will re-ask the question.
If our company goes into a building and wires (either 
pre-construction of post construction), will a contract legally cover 
us so that nobody else can come around and claim rights to use that 
to distribute a service also?

Does that “ruling” change it we install conduit as well?
We have a bunch buildings to get “wired” over the next 60 days and I 
want to protect ourselves if at all possible.

Paul
Paul McCall, President
PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
658 Old Dixie Highway
Vero Beach, FL 32962
772-564-6800
pa...@pdmnet.net 
www.pdmnet.com 
www.floridabroadband.com 

Re: [AFMUG] Ownership of wire / fiber in a building

[Paul McCall]

Let me back this train up a little bit.  My primary concern question is…. If I 
run Fiber throughout a building (or copper), can building owner and I have a 
contract where only I can use the very wire/fiber that I installed?  I would 
the answer at that basic level would be a yes, but am not positive.

Not even thinking about exclusive rights to market a service to the building.

Just want to see if I can “own” the wire/fiber that I put in the building.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Nate Burke
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 2:31 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ownership of wire / fiber in a building

If you can get the contract to be the 'riser management' company, would that 
allow you to set high rates and discourage anyone else from coming in?  We've 
run into that in a few class A buildings.  'Oh, you need a cat 5 run from floor 
3 to floor 5, that will be $5000, and we are the only company allowed to do 
work in the riser.
On 8/28/2016 11:19 AM, Justin Wilson wrote:
I have typically ran across the terms “Franchise rights” and “Riser rights” 
when it comes to buildings.

If you have franchise rights you are the only one with rights to provide your 
product to that building.

Riser rights just gives you access to to raceways, risers, etc. for running 
your cable.   You could get exclusive access to such things, but I don’t see 
that as often as franchise rights.  I think this is mainly due to a franchise 
fee is typically higher and more beneficial to the building owner.

A telco can cry foul and play the fact that telephones are an essential 
service. Even if they can’t legally do anything, they can pressure the building 
owner enough where it becomes an issue. I have seen tenants want to order 
landline phones in buildings where a WISP had exclusive rights.  The tenant is 
going to be favored by the building owner almost every time.

My advice get exclusive access to any pathways for cable in regards to your 
services with the ability to sublet.  If you can get it, get an exclusive 
franchise for providing data services.

Justin Wilson
j...@mtin.net<mailto:j...@mtin.net>

---
http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth
http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric

On Aug 28, 2016, at 10:26 AM, Paul McCall 
mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>> wrote:

I know that has been discussed several times in the past, but I recall a few 
variables so I will re-ask the question.

If our company goes into a building and wires (either pre-construction of post 
construction), will a contract legally cover us so that nobody else can come 
around and claim rights to use that to distribute a service also?

Does that “ruling” change it we install conduit as well?

We have a bunch buildings to get “wired” over the next 60 days and I want to 
protect ourselves if at all possible.

Paul

Paul McCall, President
PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
658 Old Dixie Highway
Vero Beach, FL 32962
772-564-6800
pa...@pdmnet.net<mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>
www.pdmnet.com<http://www.pdmnet.com/>
www.floridabroadband.com<http://www.floridabroadband.com/>

Re: [AFMUG] Ownership of wire / fiber in a building

[Justin Wilson]

If your contract with them doesn’t say its yours then it becomes part of the 
structure, thus theirs. 

Justin Wilson
j...@mtin.net

---
http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth

http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric

> On Aug 28, 2016, at 3:53 PM, Paul McCall  wrote:
> 
> Let me back this train up a little bit.  My primary concern question is…. If 
> I run Fiber throughout a building (or copper), can building owner and I have 
> a contract where only I can use the very wire/fiber that I installed?  I 
> would the answer at that basic level would be a yes, but am not positive.
>  
> Not even thinking about exclusive rights to market a service to the building.
>  
> Just want to see if I can “own” the wire/fiber that I put in the building. 
>  
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Nate Burke
> Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 2:31 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ownership of wire / fiber in a building
>  
> If you can get the contract to be the 'riser management' company, would that 
> allow you to set high rates and discourage anyone else from coming in?  We've 
> run into that in a few class A buildings.  'Oh, you need a cat 5 run from 
> floor 3 to floor 5, that will be $5000, and we are the only company allowed 
> to do work in the riser. 
> 
> On 8/28/2016 11:19 AM, Justin Wilson wrote:
> I have typically ran across the terms “Franchise rights” and “Riser rights” 
> when it comes to buildings.
>  
> If you have franchise rights you are the only one with rights to provide your 
> product to that building.
>  
> Riser rights just gives you access to to raceways, risers, etc. for running 
> your cable.   You could get exclusive access to such things, but I don’t see 
> that as often as franchise rights.  I think this is mainly due to a franchise 
> fee is typically higher and more beneficial to the building owner.  
>  
> A telco can cry foul and play the fact that telephones are an essential 
> service. Even if they can’t legally do anything, they can pressure the 
> building owner enough where it becomes an issue. I have seen tenants want to 
> order landline phones in buildings where a WISP had exclusive rights.  The 
> tenant is going to be favored by the building owner almost every time. 
>  
> My advice get exclusive access to any pathways for cable in regards to your 
> services with the ability to sublet.  If you can get it, get an exclusive 
> franchise for providing data services. 
>  
> Justin Wilson
> j...@mtin.net <mailto:j...@mtin.net>
>  
> ---
> http://www.mtin.net <http://www.mtin.net/> Owner/CEO
> xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth
> 
> http://www.midwest-ix.com <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>  COO/Chairman
> Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric
>  
> On Aug 28, 2016, at 10:26 AM, Paul McCall  <mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>> wrote:
>  
> I know that has been discussed several times in the past, but I recall a few 
> variables so I will re-ask the question.
>  
> If our company goes into a building and wires (either pre-construction of 
> post construction), will a contract legally cover us so that nobody else can 
> come around and claim rights to use that to distribute a service also?
>  
> Does that “ruling” change it we install conduit as well?
>  
> We have a bunch buildings to get “wired” over the next 60 days and I want to 
> protect ourselves if at all possible.
>  
> Paul
>  
> Paul McCall, President
> PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
> 658 Old Dixie Highway
> Vero Beach, FL 32962
> 772-564-6800  
> pa...@pdmnet.net <mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>
> www.pdmnet.com <http://www.pdmnet.com/>
> www.floridabroadband.com <http://www.floridabroadband.com/>
>  
>  

Re: [AFMUG] Ownership of wire / fiber in a building

[Justin Wilson]

https://backchannel.com/the-new-payola-deals-landlords-cut-with-internet-providers-cf60200aa9e9#.l6a38myj8

"Sure, a landlord can’t enter into an exclusive agreement granting just one ISP 
the right to provide Internet access service to an MDU, but a landlord can 
refuse to sign agreements with anyone other than Big Company X, in exchange for 
payments labeled in any one of a zillion ways. Exclusivity by any other name 
still feels just as abusive.”

Apartment owner across the river has a local WISP.  ATT tried to strong arm him 
into giving access.  He said sure, but all payments have to be made in cash, in 
person, on such and such day.  ATT didn’t agree to the terms so he effectively 
kept them out.  His next tactic is to have them pay in bitcoin should they ask 
again.



Justin Wilson
j...@mtin.net

---
http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth

http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric

> On Aug 28, 2016, at 1:52 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
> 
> I don't believe exclusive contracts are permitted by the FCC. I believe 
> you're limited to exclusive marketing.
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange
> 
> The Brothers WISP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 12:46:46 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ownership of wire / fiber in a building
> 
> 
>  
> IF anyone has any paperwork they can share for accomplishing exclusive access 
> in a building, i'd love to see it.
> thanks ;)
>  
> ps - what prevents a tenant from ordering service from a telco themselves not 
> realizing such an agreement is in place?
>  
> 
> A telco can cry foul and play the fact that telephones are an essential 
> service. Even if they can’t legally do anything, they can pressure the 
> building owner enough where it becomes an issue. I have seen tenants want to 
> order landline phones in buildings where a WISP had exclusive rights.  The 
> tenant is going to be favored by the building owner almost every time. 
> 
> My advice get exclusive access to any pathways for cable in regards to your 
> services with the ability to sublet.  If you can get it, get an exclusive 
> franchise for providing data services. 
> 
> Justin Wilson
> j...@mtin.net
> 
> ---
> http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
> xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth
> 
> http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
> Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric
> 
> On Aug 28, 2016, at 10:26 AM, Paul McCall  wrote:
> 
> I know that has been discussed several times in the past, but I recall a few 
> variables so I will re-ask the question.
> If our company goes into a building and wires (either pre-construction of 
> post construction), will a contract legally cover us so that nobody else can 
> come around and claim rights to use that to distribute a service also?
> Does that “ruling” change it we install conduit as well?
> We have a bunch buildings to get “wired” over the next 60 days and I want to 
> protect ourselves if at all possible.
> Paul
> Paul McCall, President
> PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
> 658 Old Dixie Highway
> Vero Beach, FL 32962
> 772-564-6800  
> pa...@pdmnet.net
> www.pdmnet.com
> www.floridabroadband.com

Re: [AFMUG] Ownership of wire / fiber in a building

[Josh Reynolds]

I find it shameful that this thread is advocating one of the very things
that WISPs and small/regional ISPs have been fighting against for years
when it comes to MDUs.

On Aug 28, 2016 3:47 PM, "Justin Wilson"  wrote:

> https://backchannel.com/the-new-payola-deals-landlords-
> cut-with-internet-providers-cf60200aa9e9#.l6a38myj8
>
> "Sure, a landlord can’t enter into an exclusive agreement granting just
> one ISP the right to provide Internet access service to an MDU, but a
> landlord can refuse to sign agreements with anyone other than Big Company
> X, in exchange for payments labeled in any one of a zillion ways.
> Exclusivity by any other name still feels just as abusive.”
>
> Apartment owner across the river has a local WISP.  ATT tried to strong
> arm him into giving access.  He said sure, but all payments have to be made
> in cash, in person, on such and such day.  ATT didn’t agree to the terms so
> he effectively kept them out.  His next tactic is to have them pay in
> bitcoin should they ask again.
>
>
>
> Justin Wilson
> j...@mtin.net
>
> ---
> http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
> xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth
>
> http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
> Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric
>
> > On Aug 28, 2016, at 1:52 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
> >
> > I don't believe exclusive contracts are permitted by the FCC. I believe
> you're limited to exclusive marketing.
> >
> >
> >
> > -
> > Mike Hammett
> > Intelligent Computing Solutions
> >
> > Midwest Internet Exchange
> >
> > The Brothers WISP
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
> > To: af@afmug.com
> > Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 12:46:46 PM
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ownership of wire / fiber in a building
> >
> > 
> >
> > IF anyone has any paperwork they can share for accomplishing exclusive
> access in a building, i'd love to see it.
> > thanks ;)
> >
> > ps - what prevents a tenant from ordering service from a telco
> themselves not realizing such an agreement is in place?
> >
> >
> > A telco can cry foul and play the fact that telephones are an essential
> service. Even if they can’t legally do anything, they can pressure the
> building owner enough where it becomes an issue. I have seen tenants want
> to order landline phones in buildings where a WISP had exclusive rights.
> The tenant is going to be favored by the building owner almost every time.
> >
> > My advice get exclusive access to any pathways for cable in regards to
> your services with the ability to sublet.  If you can get it, get an
> exclusive franchise for providing data services.
> >
> > Justin Wilson
> > j...@mtin.net
> >
> > ---
> > http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
> > xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth
> >
> > http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
> > Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric
> >
> > On Aug 28, 2016, at 10:26 AM, Paul McCall  wrote:
> >
> > I know that has been discussed several times in the past, but I recall a
> few variables so I will re-ask the question.
> > If our company goes into a building and wires (either pre-construction
> of post construction), will a contract legally cover us so that nobody else
> can come around and claim rights to use that to distribute a service also?
> > Does that “ruling” change it we install conduit as well?
> > We have a bunch buildings to get “wired” over the next 60 days and I
> want to protect ourselves if at all possible.
> > Paul
> > Paul McCall, President
> > PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
> > 658 Old Dixie Highway
> > Vero Beach, FL 32962
> > 772-564-6800
> > pa...@pdmnet.net
> > www.pdmnet.com
> > www.floridabroadband.com
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Ownership of wire / fiber in a building

[Chuck McCown]

Nothing at all.  The regulated telco has a “duty to serve” and is frequently 
the “provider of last resort”.  So if someone wants their service normally they 
can not be prevented from getting it.  The landowner can block access in some 
states.  

From: CBB - Jay Fuller 
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 11:46 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ownership of wire / fiber in a building


IF anyone has any paperwork they can share for accomplishing exclusive access 
in a building, i'd love to see it.
thanks ;)

ps - what prevents a tenant from ordering service from a telco themselves not 
realizing such an agreement is in place?



  A telco can cry foul and play the fact that telephones are an essential 
service. Even if they can’t legally do anything, they can pressure the building 
owner enough where it becomes an issue. I have seen tenants want to order 
landline phones in buildings where a WISP had exclusive rights.  The tenant is 
going to be favored by the building owner almost every time. 

  My advice get exclusive access to any pathways for cable in regards to your 
services with the ability to sublet.  If you can get it, get an exclusive 
franchise for providing data services. 

  Justin Wilson
  j...@mtin.net

  ---
  http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
  xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth


  http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
  Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric

On Aug 28, 2016, at 10:26 AM, Paul McCall  wrote:

I know that has been discussed several times in the past, but I recall a 
few variables so I will re-ask the question.
If our company goes into a building and wires (either pre-construction of 
post construction), will a contract legally cover us so that nobody else can 
come around and claim rights to use that to distribute a service also?
Does that “ruling” change it we install conduit as well?
We have a bunch buildings to get “wired” over the next 60 days and I want 
to protect ourselves if at all possible.
Paul
Paul McCall, President
PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
658 Old Dixie Highway
Vero Beach, FL 32962
772-564-6800  
pa...@pdmnet.net
www.pdmnet.com
www.floridabroadband.com

Re: [AFMUG] Ownership of wire / fiber in a building

[Chuck McCown]

Make sure to tag everything with your name.  

From: Nate Burke 
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 12:30 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ownership of wire / fiber in a building

If you can get the contract to be the 'riser management' company, would that 
allow you to set high rates and discourage anyone else from coming in?  We've 
run into that in a few class A buildings.  'Oh, you need a cat 5 run from floor 
3 to floor 5, that will be $5000, and we are the only company allowed to do 
work in the riser.  


On 8/28/2016 11:19 AM, Justin Wilson wrote:

  I have typically ran across the terms “Franchise rights” and “Riser rights” 
when it comes to buildings.

  If you have franchise rights you are the only one with rights to provide your 
product to that building.

  Riser rights just gives you access to to raceways, risers, etc. for running 
your cable.   You could get exclusive access to such things, but I don’t see 
that as often as franchise rights.  I think this is mainly due to a franchise 
fee is typically higher and more beneficial to the building owner.  

  A telco can cry foul and play the fact that telephones are an essential 
service. Even if they can’t legally do anything, they can pressure the building 
owner enough where it becomes an issue. I have seen tenants want to order 
landline phones in buildings where a WISP had exclusive rights.  The tenant is 
going to be favored by the building owner almost every time. 

  My advice get exclusive access to any pathways for cable in regards to your 
services with the ability to sublet.  If you can get it, get an exclusive 
franchise for providing data services. 

  Justin Wilson
  j...@mtin.net

  ---
  http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
  xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth


  http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
  Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric

On Aug 28, 2016, at 10:26 AM, Paul McCall  wrote:

I know that has been discussed several times in the past, but I recall a 
few variables so I will re-ask the question.
 
If our company goes into a building and wires (either pre-construction of 
post construction), will a contract legally cover us so that nobody else can 
come around and claim rights to use that to distribute a service also?
 
Does that “ruling” change it we install conduit as well?
 
We have a bunch buildings to get “wired” over the next 60 days and I want 
to protect ourselves if at all possible.
 
Paul
 
Paul McCall, President
PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
658 Old Dixie Highway
Vero Beach, FL 32962
772-564-6800  
pa...@pdmnet.net
www.pdmnet.com
www.floridabroadband.com

Re: [AFMUG] Ownership of wire / fiber in a building

[Chuck McCown]

I think the answer to that is a big YES.   Your wire, you control it.  
Not so for old telco wire.  When Ma Bell was de-regulated, the existing 
building wiring became property of the building owner.  

From: Paul McCall 
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 1:53 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ownership of wire / fiber in a building

Let me back this train up a little bit.  My primary concern question is…. If I 
run Fiber throughout a building (or copper), can building owner and I have a 
contract where only I can use the very wire/fiber that I installed?  I would 
the answer at that basic level would be a yes, but am not positive.

 

Not even thinking about exclusive rights to market a service to the building.

 

Just want to see if I can “own” the wire/fiber that I put in the building.  

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Nate Burke
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 2:31 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ownership of wire / fiber in a building

 

If you can get the contract to be the 'riser management' company, would that 
allow you to set high rates and discourage anyone else from coming in?  We've 
run into that in a few class A buildings.  'Oh, you need a cat 5 run from floor 
3 to floor 5, that will be $5000, and we are the only company allowed to do 
work in the riser.  

On 8/28/2016 11:19 AM, Justin Wilson wrote:

  I have typically ran across the terms “Franchise rights” and “Riser rights” 
when it comes to buildings.

   

  If you have franchise rights you are the only one with rights to provide your 
product to that building.

   

  Riser rights just gives you access to to raceways, risers, etc. for running 
your cable.   You could get exclusive access to such things, but I don’t see 
that as often as franchise rights.  I think this is mainly due to a franchise 
fee is typically higher and more beneficial to the building owner.  

   

  A telco can cry foul and play the fact that telephones are an essential 
service. Even if they can’t legally do anything, they can pressure the building 
owner enough where it becomes an issue. I have seen tenants want to order 
landline phones in buildings where a WISP had exclusive rights.  The tenant is 
going to be favored by the building owner almost every time. 

   

  My advice get exclusive access to any pathways for cable in regards to your 
services with the ability to sublet.  If you can get it, get an exclusive 
franchise for providing data services. 

   

  Justin Wilson

  j...@mtin.net

   

  ---
  http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO

  xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth

  http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman

  Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric

   

On Aug 28, 2016, at 10:26 AM, Paul McCall  wrote:

 

I know that has been discussed several times in the past, but I recall a 
few variables so I will re-ask the question.

 

If our company goes into a building and wires (either pre-construction of 
post construction), will a contract legally cover us so that nobody else can 
come around and claim rights to use that to distribute a service also?

 

Does that “ruling” change it we install conduit as well?

 

We have a bunch buildings to get “wired” over the next 60 days and I want 
to protect ourselves if at all possible.

 

Paul

 

Paul McCall, President

PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.

658 Old Dixie Highway

Vero Beach, FL 32962

772-564-6800  

pa...@pdmnet.net

www.pdmnet.com

www.floridabroadband.com

   

 

Re: [AFMUG] Ownership of wire / fiber in a building

[Justin Wilson]

Do you think the telco or Cableco or local fiber company wouldn’t hesitate to 
do it to you? It just makes good business sense to give yourself as much of an 
edge as possible.  Ive been on the receiving end of ATT coming into a property 
and demanding access to the wiring.  When they can sell $14.95 DSL and all your 
customer has to do is plug into the jack next to you it kinda sucks. Ive also 
tried to get into buildings and towns that were monopolized by someone.  Ask 
Chuck Hogg about his latest dealings with a town near him.  The mayor, using a 
franchise agreement, was no friend to Chuck bringing in fiber.  

Justin Wilson
j...@mtin.net

---
http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth

http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric

> On Aug 28, 2016, at 5:19 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:
> 
> I find it shameful that this thread is advocating one of the very things that 
> WISPs and small/regional ISPs have been fighting against for years when it 
> comes to MDUs.
> 
> 
> On Aug 28, 2016 3:47 PM, "Justin Wilson"  <mailto:li...@mtin.net>> wrote:
> https://backchannel.com/the-new-payola-deals-landlords-cut-with-internet-providers-cf60200aa9e9#.l6a38myj8
>  
> <https://backchannel.com/the-new-payola-deals-landlords-cut-with-internet-providers-cf60200aa9e9#.l6a38myj8>
> 
> "Sure, a landlord can’t enter into an exclusive agreement granting just one 
> ISP the right to provide Internet access service to an MDU, but a landlord 
> can refuse to sign agreements with anyone other than Big Company X, in 
> exchange for payments labeled in any one of a zillion ways. Exclusivity by 
> any other name still feels just as abusive.”
> 
> Apartment owner across the river has a local WISP.  ATT tried to strong arm 
> him into giving access.  He said sure, but all payments have to be made in 
> cash, in person, on such and such day.  ATT didn’t agree to the terms so he 
> effectively kept them out.  His next tactic is to have them pay in bitcoin 
> should they ask again.
> 
> 
> 
> Justin Wilson
> j...@mtin.net <mailto:j...@mtin.net>
> 
> ---
> http://www.mtin.net <http://www.mtin.net/> Owner/CEO
> xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth
> 
> http://www.midwest-ix.com <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>  COO/Chairman
> Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric
> 
> > On Aug 28, 2016, at 1:52 PM, Mike Hammett  > <mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:
> >
> > I don't believe exclusive contracts are permitted by the FCC. I believe 
> > you're limited to exclusive marketing.
> >
> >
> >
> > -
> > Mike Hammett
> > Intelligent Computing Solutions
> >
> > Midwest Internet Exchange
> >
> > The Brothers WISP
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: "CBB - Jay Fuller"  > <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>>
> > To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 12:46:46 PM
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ownership of wire / fiber in a building
> >
> > 
> >
> > IF anyone has any paperwork they can share for accomplishing exclusive 
> > access in a building, i'd love to see it.
> > thanks ;)
> >
> > ps - what prevents a tenant from ordering service from a telco themselves 
> > not realizing such an agreement is in place?
> >
> >
> > A telco can cry foul and play the fact that telephones are an essential 
> > service. Even if they can’t legally do anything, they can pressure the 
> > building owner enough where it becomes an issue. I have seen tenants want 
> > to order landline phones in buildings where a WISP had exclusive rights.  
> > The tenant is going to be favored by the building owner almost every time.
> >
> > My advice get exclusive access to any pathways for cable in regards to your 
> > services with the ability to sublet.  If you can get it, get an exclusive 
> > franchise for providing data services.
> >
> > Justin Wilson
> > j...@mtin.net <mailto:j...@mtin.net>
> >
> > ---
> > http://www.mtin.net <http://www.mtin.net/> Owner/CEO
> > xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth
> >
> > http://www.midwest-ix.com <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>  COO/Chairman
> > Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric
> >
> > On Aug 28, 2016, at 10:26 AM, Paul McCall  > <mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>> wrote:
> >
> > I know that has been discussed several times in the past, but I recall a 
> > few variables so I will re-ask the question.
> > If our 

Re: [AFMUG] Ownership of wire / fiber in a building

[Josh Reynolds]

I'm not the type of guy to lower myself to "they would do it to you, you
should do similar". That's shady.

Part two of this is the way things are leaning with the FCC, they've
already touched on "cable services" and "telco services. Either by adding
"BIAS" services or going full monty and reclassifying us all to Title II,
the writing is on the wall that this is what the FCC and consumers want.

On Aug 28, 2016 8:40 PM, "Justin Wilson"  wrote:

> Do you think the telco or Cableco or local fiber company wouldn’t hesitate
> to do it to you? It just makes good business sense to give yourself as much
> of an edge as possible.  Ive been on the receiving end of ATT coming into a
> property and demanding access to the wiring.  When they can sell $14.95 DSL
> and all your customer has to do is plug into the jack next to you it kinda
> sucks. Ive also tried to get into buildings and towns that were monopolized
> by someone.  Ask Chuck Hogg about his latest dealings with a town near
> him.  The mayor, using a franchise agreement, was no friend to Chuck
> bringing in fiber.
>
> Justin Wilson
> j...@mtin.net
>
> ---
> http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
> xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth
>
> http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
> Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric
>
> On Aug 28, 2016, at 5:19 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:
>
> I find it shameful that this thread is advocating one of the very things
> that WISPs and small/regional ISPs have been fighting against for years
> when it comes to MDUs.
>
> On Aug 28, 2016 3:47 PM, "Justin Wilson"  wrote:
>
>> https://backchannel.com/the-new-payola-deals-landlords-cut-
>> with-internet-providers-cf60200aa9e9#.l6a38myj8
>>
>> "Sure, a landlord can’t enter into an exclusive agreement granting just
>> one ISP the right to provide Internet access service to an MDU, but a
>> landlord can refuse to sign agreements with anyone other than Big Company
>> X, in exchange for payments labeled in any one of a zillion ways.
>> Exclusivity by any other name still feels just as abusive.”
>>
>> Apartment owner across the river has a local WISP.  ATT tried to strong
>> arm him into giving access.  He said sure, but all payments have to be made
>> in cash, in person, on such and such day.  ATT didn’t agree to the terms so
>> he effectively kept them out.  His next tactic is to have them pay in
>> bitcoin should they ask again.
>>
>>
>>
>> Justin Wilson
>> j...@mtin.net
>>
>> ---
>> http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
>> xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth
>>
>> http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
>> Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric
>>
>> > On Aug 28, 2016, at 1:52 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>> >
>> > I don't believe exclusive contracts are permitted by the FCC. I believe
>> you're limited to exclusive marketing.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -
>> > Mike Hammett
>> > Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> >
>> > Midwest Internet Exchange
>> >
>> > The Brothers WISP
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > From: "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
>> > To: af@afmug.com
>> > Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 12:46:46 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ownership of wire / fiber in a building
>> >
>> > 
>> >
>> > IF anyone has any paperwork they can share for accomplishing exclusive
>> access in a building, i'd love to see it.
>> > thanks ;)
>> >
>> > ps - what prevents a tenant from ordering service from a telco
>> themselves not realizing such an agreement is in place?
>> >
>> >
>> > A telco can cry foul and play the fact that telephones are an essential
>> service. Even if they can’t legally do anything, they can pressure the
>> building owner enough where it becomes an issue. I have seen tenants want
>> to order landline phones in buildings where a WISP had exclusive rights.
>> The tenant is going to be favored by the building owner almost every time.
>> >
>> > My advice get exclusive access to any pathways for cable in regards to
>> your services with the ability to sublet.  If you can get it, get an
>> exclusive franchise for providing data services.
>> >
>> > Justin Wilson
>> > j...@mtin.net
>> >
>> > ---
>> > http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
>> > xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth
>> >
>> > http://www.midw