DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Rulekeepor] Full Logical Ruleset

[Owen Jacobson]

> On May 21, 2017, at 11:20 PM, Quazie  wrote:
> 
> I COE on this FLR - it contains an intent to win by apathy, which I believe 
> wouldn't have worked and would have instead added garbage to the ruleset.

As the Referee, I am extremely disappointed with our Rulekeepor for this 
flagrant attempt at foul play. Cards may be forthcoming: misbehaviour in the 
office of one of the most essential roles for the continued play of Agora 
deserves sharp censure. I’ll follow up once I’ve dug through the evidence and 
rules

As myself, heh. Well played.

-o



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Re: DIS: Etiquette for huge plaintext?

[Owen Jacobson]

Generally, just send it. The list has a message size limit, but it’s hefty, and 
you’ll get a bounce message if you exceed it. There are precedents allowing 
multiple messages to be treated as a single action.

If the reason it’s huge is that it contains a huge number of actions, one of 
two things is likely:

1. You’re perpetrating a scam, in which case you should jump in with both feet 
and see what happens.

2. You’re not perpetrating a scam, in which case it might be wise to coordinate 
with the officers whose duties you’re going to impact.

-o

> On May 21, 2017, at 9:16 PM, CuddleBeam  wrote:
> 
> If I would post a huge plaintext, what would the best procedure be to do so?



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DIS: Re: BUS: [Herald] Let us begin the winning

[Owen Jacobson]

I am, in fact, tired of winning.

> On May 21, 2017, at 6:10 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus 
>  wrote:
> 
> I hereby initiate a Victory Election with all players or announced 
> non-players as valid options and the Herald as the vote collector. I would be 
> in favor of all watchers (Ørjan and others) and G. putting emselves into the 
> race. The ballots should be cast in an instant runoff format.

I vote as follows:

{Peter Suber, Michael Norrish}

> For each player, I declare Apathy without objection with em as the set of 
> players. If no objections are heard in the next four days, I will resolve 
> this and many players will win.

I object to each intention.

> Finally, with Agoran Consent, I intend to grant the badge, "Badge of the 
> Great Agoran Revival" to all persons who have sent a message to any Agoran 
> Public Forum or agora-discussion@agoranomic.org 
>  in the month of May.


I support this intention.

-o



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DIS: Re: BUS: Ok so maybe everyone in the universe is playing Nomic

[Owen Jacobson]

I’ll note that you appear to be reproducing Peter Suber’s thesis, one piece at 
a time, and adding paradoxical constraints in the process:

> If appropriate qualifications are made for the informality of custom and 
> etiquette, a case could be made that normal social life is just a system of 
> indefinite tiers. Near the top of the "difficult" end of the series, below 
> entrenched cultural norms, are actual laws, rising through case precedents, 
> regulations and statutes, to constitutional rules. At the bottom of the scale 
> are those rules of personal behavior that individuals may amend unilaterally 
> without incurring censure. Above those are rules for which amendment is 
> increasingly costly, starting with (say) costs on the order of furrowed brows 
> and clucked tongues, passing through indignant blows and vengeful homicide.

In any case, please continue. This is an interesting experiment.

-o

> On May 21, 2017, at 7:12 PM, CuddleBeam  wrote:
> 
> I establish the following Agency: (This is my 24 hours notice)
> 
> Title: Everyone is Playing Nomic (EPN)
> Agents: All persons
> Powers: The content in this Powers section below the BIG LINE can be modified 
> at will by any Agent by announcing this intent, as long as they comply to the 
> rules written below the BIG LINE. All content below the BIG LINE have no 
> formal powers aside from restricting what Agents may edit into it.
> 
> The next 54 characters that appear after the colon in this sentence is the 
> BIG LINE:
> 
> --HELLO MY FRIENDS I AM THE BIG LINE--
> 
> Nobody can make modifications to this document which would prevent any subset 
> of all possible modifications to be able to be made nor remove this sentence.



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Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: CFJ 3469 judged DISMISS

[Kerim Aydin]

On Sun, 21 May 2017, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> I judged CFJ 3449 on 28 Sep 2015:
> https://www.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2015-September/033920.html
> 
> It was over a month late, but we're definitely outside the Statute of 
> Limitations.

Also, to follow-up, because it's a general principle worth noting.  We
generally hold (again, past precedent maybe?) that for a timing violation,
the violation occurs the moment the time limit expires - a person isn't
"continually violating" the rule as long as e's late, e violates the
rule (once) the moment e's late.

This has some implications; for example, if an Officer is late with
something, and a new person takes the office after the deadline, the
new person isn't instantly breaking the rules by not doing the task.

And for this situation, even if I hadn't judged and the case was still
open, the crime was committed long before the current 14-day window for
punishment.

HOWEVER:  this *is* a case where the precedent was so long ago, it would
take a while to find it - and who knows if the same question would result
in the same judgement today?  So maybe it's more game custom than
precedent at this point... I'll put that on my "cases to watch out for"
list...

Re: DIS: Common Law and Tracking

[Kerim Aydin]

On Mon, 22 May 2017, Owen Jacobson wrote:
> 2. There is presently no rule binding judges to follow the precedent of prior 
> CFJs.

from R217:
   When interpreting and applying the rules, the text of the rules
   takes precedence.  Where the text is silent, inconsistent, or
   unclear, it is to be augmented by game custom, common sense,
   past judgements, and consideration of the best interests of the
   game.

So: it's on the list of things to consider (twice, if you consider that it's
a game custom to follow precedent).  Note it's not specific to judges. It
goes for anyone's interpretation of game play, which basically means "once
we get a judicial ruling, we all keep playing by that ruling until the rules 
themselves change the situation."

>   b) If so, who tracks common-law entities?

They were argued into the game once (starting with CFJ 1623) but then we
regulated the heck out of them.

DIS: Re: BUS: CFJ: Call for Piñata

[Ørjan Johansen]

On Mon, 22 May 2017, Owen Jacobson wrote:


Quis tonsoriet ipsos tonsores?

Or something. My latin’s never been anything but shit.


Wiktionary for all(?) your obscure grammar needs:

custodes:tonsores::custodiet:tondebit

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/quis_custodiet_ipsos_custodes
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/custodiet#Latin
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tonsor#Latin
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tondeo#Latin
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tondebit#Latin

Greetings,
Ørjan.

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: CFJ 3469 judged DISMISS

[Kerim Aydin]

I judged CFJ 3449 on 28 Sep 2015:
https://www.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2015-September/033920.html

It was over a month late, but we're definitely outside the Statute of 
Limitations.

If you're looking at the CFJ database, that is one of several between 3380-3452
where omd's database was only partially complete (assigned-to messages but not
judgement messages).  Filling those in is on my TODO list.  I haven't fully
checked, but I don't *think* there are any open CFJs.

There used to be punishments for making false accusations... :).

On Mon, 22 May 2017, Owen Jacobson wrote:
> Note that I can’t issue a Card to a non-player:
> 
>   The Referee CAN, subject to the provisions of this rule, impose Summary 
> Judgment on a player by
>   issuing a card to em by announcement.
> 
> 
> Emphasis mine. As G. cannot be a player right now, I cannot issue a card to 
> em.
> 
> Separately, I’ll need more time to investigate the alleged offence.
> 
> -o
> 
>   On May 20, 2017, at 11:10 AM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
>    wrote:
> 
> I would recommend that the referee issue a card for G.'s failure to judge CFJ 
> 3449, found
> at 
> https://www.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-official/2015-August/011123.html,
>  in a timely
> manner.
> 
> Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
> 
> On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 11:06 AM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
>  wrote:
>   I judge CFJ 3469 DISMISS because of the typo. However, I find the 
> statement could be corrected
>   as "At least one Patent Title is held by something other than a 
> person." or "At least one
>   Patent Title is able to be held by something other than a person." I 
> find the first of these to
>   be dependent upon the second and as I will find the second FALSE, I 
> find the first FALSE as
>   well. I find the second to be FALSE because a Patent Title is "a legal 
> title given to a person
>   in recognition of the person's distinction." This suggests to us that 
> only persons may be given
>   Patent Titles. However, to analyze this statement we must first list 
> the verbs that can be
>   applied to patent titles. In the rules we find the following verbs:
> * to award (a patent title)
> * to revoke (a patent title)
> After reviewing CFJs we find that one is able:
> * to possess (a patent title) [CFJ 904]
> * to have (a patent title) [CFJ 2306]
> * to bear (a patent title) [CFJ 1874]
> However, all uses of these verbs have as their subject a person. Given the 
> way the rule is phrased
> that a patent title is "in recognition of the person's distinction." I 
> believe that there can exist a
> patent title in the distinction of anything, which was a person at the time 
> of the award. However, if
> the entity is no longer a person, it can no longer be held by the entity, but 
> shall still exist and
> must be tracked as a patent title "in recognition of the person's 
> distinction." because it is in
> recognition of the person who once existed, but is no longer held by the 
> entities current state.
> Also, a similar, but more person related, CFJ, CFJ 3449, is still assigned to 
> G. and has not been
> judged in a timely manner.
> Publius Scribonius Scholasticus

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Ribbons

[Owen Jacobson]

> On May 21, 2017, at 12:44 AM, Nic Evans  wrote:
> 
> I read the rule as having two mechanisms: 1 where you qualify by virtue of 
> never having it, and therefore being able to award it, 2 where anyone can 
> award it to anyone regardless of qualificaiton if they haven't before. Owen 
> appears to have awarded emself a White ribbon previously: 
> https://www.mail-archive.com/agora-business@agoranomic.org/msg28074.html 
> 

I’m not convinced that that attempt worked, but I do appear to have it, as of 
the last Tailor’s report.

-o



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DIS: Re: BUS: Hello and proposal

[Owen Jacobson]

Welcome!

This appears to be very similar to the Reportor (r. 2446), and this proposal 
would be improved by making it clear how the office of Digestive System differs 
from that office.

-o

> On May 21, 2017, at 12:17 AM, James Beirne  wrote:
> 
> I'd like to register as a player for about the fifth time.
> 
> I'd also like to submit a proposal entitled "Reader's Digest": {
> 
> Enact a new rule entitled "Reader's Digest": {
> 
> 
> There exists an elected office called Digestive System. "Digestibility" is a 
> singleton switch tracked by the Digestive System with possible values 
> "MONTHLY" and "WEEKLY"; the Digestive System can flip this by announcement.
> 
> The Digestive System SHALL regularly issue a report which accurately 
> summarizes the state and activities of Agoranomic throughout the relevant 
> period. This report need not be comprehensive, but will contain that 
> information, as assessed by the Digestive System, which would be of the 
> greatest relevance or importance for a player who had been inattentive to the 
> state of the nomic during the relevant period. If Digestibility is MONTHLY, 
> the relevant period is the preceding month; if it is WEEKLY, it is the 
> preceding week.
> }
> }
> 
> - Ienpw III



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DIS: Re: BUS: CFJ: Call for Piñata

[Owen Jacobson]

Quis tonsoriet ipsos tonsores?

Or something. My latin’s never been anything but shit.

-o

> On May 20, 2017, at 11:27 PM, CuddleBeam  wrote:
> 
> Employing the power of Rule 991/17, I submit a Call for Judgement for the 
> following statement:
> 
> "Can this statement have a Judge?"
> 
> I also opt to bar one person from such procedure. That person is the person 
> who would successfully become the first Judge of the Call for Judgement 
> submitted by this message.
> 
> 
> 
> I pledge to grant one Shiny (if I have at least one and I am capable of such 
> a transfer) to the Judge of the CFJ summoned via the content above as long as 
> rules relevant to CFJs haven't changed since I have announced this pledge and 
> the barring attempt above had barred someone.
> 
> (I dunno, could be fun lol, and I'm very curious about how this might turn 
> out.)



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Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Super Election Season

[Owen Jacobson]

Sold. After I finish up the current Secretary’s weekly reports, I’ll put what I 
have on Github. We can refine from there.

I’d prefer changes by pull request over commits, please. I’m still responsible 
for the correctness of the report.

-o

> On May 20, 2017, at 7:28 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus 
>  wrote:
> 
> I too believe that GitHub would be most optimal as it allows for an easy 
> transition.
> 
> 
> Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
> 
> On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 7:25 PM, Gaelan Steele  > wrote:
> My vote goes to the GitHub.
> 
> > On May 20, 2017, at 3:52 PM, Edward Murphy  > > wrote:
> >
> > ais523 wrote:
> >
> >> Secretary: One of the more difficult offices. (It's the spiritual
> >> successor of Notary, which I held for a long time and was rather time-
> >> consuming). However, having offices like this tends to end up vital if
> >> we want open-ended gameplay (which we typically do; an economy tends
> >> not to function without it). Incidentally, the agora-notary wiki, which
> >> was previously used to help simplify this sort of role still seems to
> >> be functional; if the Secretary role ends up getting out of hand, we
> >> might want to look into using it again.
> >
> > I can easily grant edit rights on request, but would probably be less
> > confusing to just create a new 'agora-secretary' wiki. Wikidot has the
> > advantage of 'unlikely to go away any time soon', the disadvantage of
> > 'free wikis (sometimes) show ads if you're not logged in'.
> >
> >
> 



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DIS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 7853-7857

[Gaelan Steele]

> On May 21, 2017, at 4:54 PM, Aris Merchant 
>  wrote:
> 
> I hereby distribute each listed proposal, initiating the Agoran
> Decision of whether to adopt it, and removing it from the proposal
> pool. For this decision, the vote collector is the Assessor, and the
> valid options are FOR and AGAINST (PRESENT is also a valid vote).
> 
> ID Author(s) AI   Title  Pender Pend fee (sh.)
> -
> 7853*  ais5233.0  Close Ancient Loopholesais523 N/A [1]
FOR
> 7854*  ais5233.0  Close Recent Loopholes v2  ais523 N/A [1]
FOR
> 7855*  Quazie1.0  Limited Agencies   ais523 N/A [1]
AGAINST [I’m all for the fix, but I am not a Ninny]
> 7856*  Quazie2.0  Shiny Releveling Event ais523 N/A [1]
FOR, although I’d still prefer to not require an explicit event—it seems pretty 
clear to me that the intent of the rule is that the sum of all shinies is 
always 1000
> 7857*  grok  1.0  ALCA [2]   ais523 N/A [1]
FOR
> 
> 
> The proposal pool currently contains the following proposals:
> 
> IDAuthor(s) AI   Title
> ---
> pp1   P.S.S.[3] 3.0  Agoran Education Rethink v3
> pp2   nichdel   1.0  Pending List Price Adjustment
> pp3   P.S.S [3] 1.0  Agora's To-Do List (v2/ov1)
> pp4   Ienpw III 1.0  Reader's Digest
> 
> Legend: * : Proposal is pending.
> 
> [1] Pended by the mechanism in the Rule "Reward and Delay"
> [2] Agency Leadership Consolidation Act
> [3] Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
> 
> The Pending List Price (PLP) is 6 shinies. The Pending Minimum Price (PMP)
> is 5 shinies.
> 
> 
> The full text of the aforementioned proposals is included below.
> 
> //
> ID: 7853
> Title: Close Ancient Loopholes
> Adoption index: 3.0
> Author: ais523
> Co-author(s):
> 
> 
> Amend rule 879 so that it has the following text:
> {{{
>Each Agoran Decision has a quorum. This is a number set when the
>decision is created, and thereafter cannot be changed. When a
>person initiates an Agoran Decision, that person SHALL state the
>quorum of that decision. However, incorrectly stating the quorum
>of a decision does not invalidate the initiation, nor does it
>actually change the quorum of the decision.
> 
>The quorum that an Agoran Decision gains as it is created can be
>defined by other rules of power 2 or greater. If no other rule
>defines the quorum of an Agoran Decision, the quorum for that
>decision is equal to the number of players who voted on the
>Agoran Decision to adopt a proposal that had been most recently
>resolved at the time of that decision's initiation, minus 2.
> 
>As an exception to the previous paragraph, the quorum of an
>Agoran Decision can never be less than 2. If the rules would
>attempt to set the quorum of an Agoran Decision to less than 2,
>it is set to 2 instead.
> }}}
> 
> Amend rule 955 by replacing the text:
> {{{
>  - If there is more than one option, and the number of valid
>ballots is less than quorum, the outcome is instead FAILED
>QUORUM.
> }}}
> with:
> {{{
>  - If there is more than one option, and the number of valid
>ballots is less than the quorum of that decision, the outcome
>is instead FAILED QUORUM.
> }}}
> 
> //
> ID: 7854
> Title: Close Recent Loopholes v2
> Adoption Index: 3.0
> Author: ais523
> Co-author(s):
> 
> Amend rule 683, by replacing the last paragraph with:
> {{{
>  A valid ballot is a ballot, correctly submitted, that has not
>  been withdrawn. During the voting period of an Agoran decision,
>  a player CAN by announcement withdraw (syn. retract) a ballot
>  that e submitted on that decision. To "change" one's vote is to
>  retract eir previous ballot (if any), then submit a new one.
> }}}
> 
> Amend rule 2445 so that it has the following text:
> {{{
>  Imminence is a switch, tracked by the Promotor, possessed by
>  proposals in the Proposal Pool, whose value is either "pending"
>  or "not pending" (default).
> 
>  Pending List Price is an integer switch, tracked by the Promotor,
>  whose default value is 5. At the beginning of every month, the
>  Pending List Price is set to 90% of the mean of the price paid
>  for each proposal pended in the previous month, rounded down. If
>  less than 2 proposals were pended in the previous month, the
>  Pending List Price is set to its default.
> 
>  Any player CAN pay Agora a specified amount, which is no less
>  than the Pending List Price, to flip a proposal's imminence
>  to "pending" by announcement. If the specified amount is 

DIS: Re: OFF: CFJ 3469 judged DISMISS

[Owen Jacobson]

On May 20, 2017, at 11:06 AM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus 
 wrote:

> I judge CFJ 3469 DISMISS because of the typo.

In final and complete satisfaction of my pledge, if I inherited G.’s Shinies, I 
pay Publius Scribonius Scholasticus 20 shinies for rendering judgement on one 
of the listed CFJs while it remained unjudged.

Well done to our judges Publius Scribonius Scholasticus, nichdel, and Gaelan. 
Your service is much appreciated.

-o



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Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [Herald] Let us begin the winning

[Quazie]

I think if we don't COE that will become part of the ruleset.
On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 20:17 Gaelan Steele  wrote:

> This was my wording:
>
> The following section is not a portion of the report:
> For the purposes of this section, The Sentence is “I intend,
> without objection, to declare [word], specifying myself.”
> I execute The Sentence, substituting [word] for a word
> beginning with “ap” that is a synonym for “not caring.”
> The report resumes below.
>
> (I went out of my way to avoid saying “apathy,” in an attempt to defeat
> anyone doing a text filter to catch things like this)
> > On May 21, 2017, at 8:16 PM, Ørjan Johansen  wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, 22 May 2017, Quazie wrote:
> >
> >> I am unsure if you can make actions inside a report?
> >>
> >> In fact I believe you can't.
> >
> > I am pretty sure there was a precedent one way or the other.
> >
> > Greetings,
> > Ørjan.
>
>

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [Herald] Let us begin the winning

[Gaelan Steele]

This was my wording:

The following section is not a portion of the report:
For the purposes of this section, The Sentence is “I intend,
without objection, to declare [word], specifying myself.”
I execute The Sentence, substituting [word] for a word
beginning with “ap” that is a synonym for “not caring.”
The report resumes below.

(I went out of my way to avoid saying “apathy,” in an attempt to defeat anyone 
doing a text filter to catch things like this)
> On May 21, 2017, at 8:16 PM, Ørjan Johansen  wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 22 May 2017, Quazie wrote:
> 
>> I am unsure if you can make actions inside a report?
>> 
>> In fact I believe you can't.
> 
> I am pretty sure there was a precedent one way or the other.
> 
> Greetings,
> Ørjan.



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Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [Herald] Let us begin the winning

[Ørjan Johansen]

On Mon, 22 May 2017, Quazie wrote:


I am unsure if you can make actions inside a report?

In fact I believe you can't.


I am pretty sure there was a precedent one way or the other.

Greetings,
Ørjan.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [Herald] Let us begin the winning

[Quazie]

I am unsure if you can make actions inside a report?

In fact I believe you can't.


On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 20:04 Gaelan Steele  wrote:

> Darn it all, I snuck one into the middle of the FLR.
>
> Gaelan
>
> On May 21, 2017, at 6:59 PM, Nic Evans  wrote:
>
> I object to all intentions to declare winner by apathy that currently
> exist, except for those that intend to declare me as winner by apathy.
>
>
>

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: A move

[Aris Merchant]

I'm not sure, but isn't it terrifying? Cuttlefish! Cuttlefish! We may need
to form a milita in order to combat this menace (I'm assuming they've been
weaponized, given "deploy").

-Aris

On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 8:10 PM Gaelan Steele  wrote:

> Don’t tell me this is a registration attempt.
> > On May 21, 2017, at 8:09 PM, Alexis Hunt  wrote:
> >
> > I deploy the cuttlefish.
> >
> > Authentication: cerebellum.
>
>

DIS: Re: BUS: A move

[Gaelan Steele]

Don’t tell me this is a registration attempt.
> On May 21, 2017, at 8:09 PM, Alexis Hunt  wrote:
> 
> I deploy the cuttlefish.
> 
> Authentication: cerebellum.



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Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [Herald] Let us begin the winning

[Aris Merchant]

On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 8:06 PM Alexis Hunt  wrote:

> hi

Hello! Welcome back! I hope you're feeling better.

-Aris

>

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [Herald] Let us begin the winning

[Alexis Hunt]

hi

On Sun, May 21, 2017, 20:00 Ørjan Johansen  wrote:

> On Sun, 21 May 2017, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote:
>
> > I hereby initiate a Victory Election with all players or announced
> > non-players as valid options and the Herald as the vote collector. I
> would
> > be in favor of all watchers (Ørjan and others) and G. putting emselves
> into
> > the race. The ballots should be cast in an instant runoff format.
>
> *Runs off instantly*
>
> > Finally, with Agoran Consent, I intend to grant the badge, "Badge of the
> > Great Agoran Revival" to all persons who have sent a message to any
> Agoran
> > Public Forum or agora-discussion@agoranomic.org in the month of May.
> This
> > may be resolved as soon as four days from now. Also, I pledge to announce
> > intent to award this badge to any person posting to any of the previously
> > listed lists before May ends, but after this point.
>
> The end of May is only 10 days away, so there is enough time to wait.
>
> Greetings,
> Ørjan.

DIS: Re: BUS: [Herald] Let us begin the winning

[Gaelan Steele]

Darn it all, I snuck one into the middle of the FLR.

Gaelan
> On May 21, 2017, at 6:59 PM, Nic Evans  wrote:
> 
> I object to all intentions to declare winner by apathy that currently exist, 
> except for those that intend to declare me as winner by apathy.



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DIS: Re: BUS: [Herald] Let us begin the winning

[Ørjan Johansen]

On Sun, 21 May 2017, Nic Evans wrote:


On 05/21/2017 05:10 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote:
I hereby initiate a Victory Election with all players or announced 
non-players as valid options and the Herald as the vote collector. I would 
be in favor of all watchers (Ørjan and others) and G. putting emselves into 
the race. The ballots should be cast in an instant runoff format.




PRESENT is also an option.


Does that invalidate it?

Greetings,
Ørjan.

Re: DIS: Experimental Ruleset Restructuring

[Nic Evans]

On 05/20/2017 09:46 PM, Josh T wrote:
I do not like how it is not evident what the numbers after a rule are 
(rule number, power). Quickly scanning I mistook the second number for 
revision number, which appears to be missing.




This is the central issue for me as well. Revision #s need to be evident.

Otherwise, I like it.


天火狐

On 20 May 2017 at 22:42, Alex Smith > wrote:


On Sat, 2017-05-20 at 19:30 -0700, Gaelan Steele wrote:
> I’ve experimentally restructured the categories in the Ruleset in an
> attempt to make it easier to find rules–feedback on the new
> categories? https://agoranomic.github.io/ruleset/

> >

Oh, one fix that probably needs making: 2471 should be likely be in
"Obligations". Putting it in "Miscellaneous" is likely a problem for a
rule that can be broken by a non-officer who isn't immediately aware
that they're doing something wrong.

--
ais523

DIS: Etiquette for huge plaintext?

[CuddleBeam]

If I would post a huge plaintext, what would the best procedure be to do so?

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [Herald] Let us begin the winning

[Publius Scribonius Scholasticus]

I vote in the Victory Election for {Ørjan, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus}.


Publius Scribonius Scholasticus

On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 8:20 PM, Ørjan Johansen  wrote:

> On Sun, 21 May 2017, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote:
>
> Since I can award it without objection, I see no harm in going ahead and
>> establishing it. I would cast a vote for you, if you would enter.
>>
>
> Since you ask so nicely, I hereby announce myself as an option in the
> current Victory Election.
>
> Greetings,
> Ørjan.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 7853-7857

[Publius Scribonius Scholasticus]

I am fine to let it go.


Publius Scribonius Scholasticus

On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 8:11 PM, Aris Merchant <
thoughtsoflifeandligh...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 5:05 PM, caleb vines  wrote:
> > On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 7:02 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
> >  wrote:
> >>
> >> CoE: I did not write Limited Agencies.
> >>
> >> I vote FOR proposals 7853, 7854, 7855, 7856, and 7857.
> >>
> >> 
> >> Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
> >
> >
> > FYI. A CoE will stop the document unless your CoE is wrong or the
> document
> > is withdrawn and corrected. Your votes will be invalidated if the
> document
> > is withdrawn.
> Distribution works weirdly, because it's an action (not a report or
> document) that just happens to generally be done in the same message
> as the proposal pool. The top part containing the distributions is
> correct, and I think there's a precedent somewhere that the whole
> thing is still valid. Regardless, note that I distributed "each listed
> proposal", which means that each action succeeds or fails
> independently. I'm pretty sure that it was still valid though, unless
> someone really wants to CFJ it...
>
> -Aris
>

DIS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 7853-7857

[Ørjan Johansen]

On Sun, 21 May 2017, Aris Merchant wrote:


//
ID: 7855
Title: Limited Agencies
Adoption Index: 1.0
Author: Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
Co-author(s):

{{{
   In rule 2467 replace:

   {{{
   An Agency is a document empowering persons to act on behalf of
   another player. A player may establish an Agency With 24 hours
   Notice and thereby become its Director by specifying the
   properties of the new Agency:
   }}}

   with:

   {{{
   An Agency is a document empowering persons to act on behalf of
   another player. A player MAY establish an Agency With 24 hours
   Notice, and thereby become its Director, by specifying the
   properties of the new Agency, provided e has not established any
   other Agency that day:
   }}}
 }}}


This is a bit of weird grammar given what follows.

Greetings,
Ørjan.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 7853-7857

[Aris Merchant]

On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 5:05 PM, caleb vines  wrote:
> On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 7:02 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
>  wrote:
>>
>> CoE: I did not write Limited Agencies.
>>
>> I vote FOR proposals 7853, 7854, 7855, 7856, and 7857.
>>
>> 
>> Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
>
>
> FYI. A CoE will stop the document unless your CoE is wrong or the document
> is withdrawn and corrected. Your votes will be invalidated if the document
> is withdrawn.
Distribution works weirdly, because it's an action (not a report or
document) that just happens to generally be done in the same message
as the proposal pool. The top part containing the distributions is
correct, and I think there's a precedent somewhere that the whole
thing is still valid. Regardless, note that I distributed "each listed
proposal", which means that each action succeeds or fails
independently. I'm pretty sure that it was still valid though, unless
someone really wants to CFJ it...

-Aris

DIS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 7853-7857

[CuddleBeam]

I vote FOR proposals 7853, 7854, 7855, 7856, and 7857.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 7853-7857

[Publius Scribonius Scholasticus]

I know. I just wanted to make my opinions known.


Publius Scribonius Scholasticus

On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 8:05 PM, caleb vines  wrote:

> On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 7:02 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus <
> p.scribonius.scholasti...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>> CoE: I did not write Limited Agencies.
>>
>> I vote FOR proposals 7853, 7854, 7855, 7856, and 7857.
>>
>> 
>> Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
>>
>
> FYI. A CoE will stop the document unless your CoE is wrong or the document
> is withdrawn and corrected. Your votes will be invalidated if the document
> is withdrawn.
>

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 7853-7857

[caleb vines]

On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 7:02 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus <
p.scribonius.scholasti...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> CoE: I did not write Limited Agencies.
>
> I vote FOR proposals 7853, 7854, 7855, 7856, and 7857.
>
> 
> Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
>

FYI. A CoE will stop the document unless your CoE is wrong or the document
is withdrawn and corrected. Your votes will be invalidated if the document
is withdrawn.

Re: DIS: A series of small proto-proposals, some of which would be trivial

[Aris Merchant]

On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 4:58 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
 wrote:
> Is that enshrined in the rules?

Yep. Rule 2152: " The following terms are defined. These definitions
are used when a rule includes a term in all caps, and provide guidance
in determining the ordinary-language meaning of a term when a rule
includes a term otherwise." I'm not convinced this makes it
non-trivial though.

-Aris

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [Herald] Let us begin the winning

[Publius Scribonius Scholasticus]

Since I can award it without objection, I see no harm in going ahead and
establishing it. I would cast a vote for you, if you would enter.


Publius Scribonius Scholasticus

On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 8:00 PM, Ørjan Johansen  wrote:

> On Sun, 21 May 2017, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote:
>
> I hereby initiate a Victory Election with all players or announced
>> non-players as valid options and the Herald as the vote collector. I would
>> be in favor of all watchers (Ørjan and others) and G. putting emselves
>> into
>> the race. The ballots should be cast in an instant runoff format.
>>
>
> *Runs off instantly*
>
> Finally, with Agoran Consent, I intend to grant the badge, "Badge of the
>> Great Agoran Revival" to all persons who have sent a message to any Agoran
>> Public Forum or agora-discussion@agoranomic.org in the month of May. This
>> may be resolved as soon as four days from now. Also, I pledge to announce
>> intent to award this badge to any person posting to any of the previously
>> listed lists before May ends, but after this point.
>>
>
> The end of May is only 10 days away, so there is enough time to wait.
>
> Greetings,
> Ørjan.

DIS: Re: BUS: [Herald] Let us begin the winning

[Ørjan Johansen]

On Sun, 21 May 2017, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote:


I hereby initiate a Victory Election with all players or announced
non-players as valid options and the Herald as the vote collector. I would
be in favor of all watchers (Ørjan and others) and G. putting emselves into
the race. The ballots should be cast in an instant runoff format.


*Runs off instantly*


Finally, with Agoran Consent, I intend to grant the badge, "Badge of the
Great Agoran Revival" to all persons who have sent a message to any Agoran
Public Forum or agora-discussion@agoranomic.org in the month of May. This
may be resolved as soon as four days from now. Also, I pledge to announce
intent to award this badge to any person posting to any of the previously
listed lists before May ends, but after this point.


The end of May is only 10 days away, so there is enough time to wait.

Greetings,
Ørjan.

Re: DIS: A series of small proto-proposals, some of which would be trivial

[Ørjan Johansen]

On Sun, 21 May 2017, Quazie wrote:


Proposal "emPHAsis" AI = 1 (Very Trivial)

{{{
 In rule 2327 replace:
 {{{
   are encouraged to
 }}}
 with:
 {{{
   are ENCOURAGED to
 }}}
}}}


I'm not sure this is really Very Trivial - the capitalized terms have more 
formal meanings, even if in this case neither version imposes a true 
obligation.


Greetings,
Ørjan.

Re: DIS: A series of small proto-proposals, some of which would be trivial

[Publius Scribonius Scholasticus]

Is that enshrined in the rules?


Publius Scribonius Scholasticus

On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 7:57 PM, Ørjan Johansen  wrote:

> On Sun, 21 May 2017, Quazie wrote:
>
> Proposal "emPHAsis" AI = 1 (Very Trivial)
>>
>> {{{
>>  In rule 2327 replace:
>>  {{{
>>are encouraged to
>>  }}}
>>  with:
>>  {{{
>>are ENCOURAGED to
>>  }}}
>> }}}
>>
>
> I'm not sure this is really Very Trivial - the capitalized terms have more
> formal meanings, even if in this case neither version imposes a true
> obligation.
>
> Greetings,
> Ørjan.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: CFJ 3492 judged TRUE

[Quazie]

Thanks for letting me know I made a mistake - I will fix shortly
On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 15:53 Alex Smith  wrote:

> On Sun, 2017-05-21 at 15:46 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> >
> > H. arbitor,
> >
> > Are you of the opinion that a judgement has been rendered here, as
> subject lines
> > generally don't count?  (And reads more like an assertion than an
> action, anyway)
>
> That email looks like arguments to me, rather than assigning an actual
> judgement.
>
> --
> ais523
>

DIS: GitHub discussion

[Aris Merchant]

There's a somewhat heated discussion going on GitHub (link [1]), which
people may be interested in contributing to. I'm not going to try to
summarize in order to avoid misstating the views of any of the
participants, but it concerns what Agora's GitHub Pages homepage [2]
should be. Please try to stay calm, be polite, assume good faith, and
don't do anything without getting a consensus. That goes for the
people already in the discussion too.

[1] https://github.com/AgoraNomic/blog/issues/1
[2] https://agoranomic.github.io

-Aris

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Reportor] The Times of Agora: Issue #1 (May 21, 2017)

[caleb vines]

Just as an explanation, the text I was hanging on to in case I needed to
provide a Gratuitous Argument:

The most recent ADoP report indicates the Reportor published a weekly
report on 5/5, fulfilling eir obligation for the Agoran week ending on 5/7.
The first week which the Reportor failed to perform eir duties was the
Agoran week ending on 5/14. Therefore, it is not legal to deputise for
Reportor until 5/28, fourteen days after the time limit for the most recent
duty nichdel failed to perform as Reportor.

On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 6:06 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus <
p.scribonius.scholasti...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> Then, I missed a report, but that is good because then my mistake is
> resolved.
>
> 
> Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
>
> On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 7:02 PM, caleb vines  wrote:
>
>> CoE: It is not currently legal to deputise for Reportor, and will not be
>> legal to deputise for Reportor unless nichdel fails to submit a weekly
>> report for the office before 5/28.
>>
>> On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 5:19 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus <
>> p.scribonius.scholasti...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The Reportor's weekly report being overdue, I hereby deputise for the
>>> reportor to publish the below weekly report:
>>> 
>>>The Times of Agora
>>> 
>>> Issue #1: May 21, 2017
>>> --
>>>  Winnings
>>> --
>>> In the past week, the Herald's report has been brought up to date. The
>>> Herald has also initiated an attempt to grant wins to all players by Apathy
>>> and a Victory Election. They have also issued an intent to grant a badge to
>>> all persons participating in the Great Agoran Revival, long may the period
>>> reign.
>>> ---
>>>  Languages
>>> ---
>>> After 天火狐, issued an attempt to amend eir organization, a recent CFJ has
>>> been called to decide whether he was a member of the organization and
>>> whether all messages are ambiguous. After this further discussion ensued
>>> about playing Agora in other languages, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
>>> intends to write a thesis on this topic.
>>> 
>>>  GitHub
>>> 
>>> In the past week, GitHub has become a popular means for drafting reports
>>> and automation has been a hot topic. However, after discussion, it was
>>> decided that this did not yet warrant legislation.
>>>
>>
>>
>

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Reportor] The Times of Agora: Issue #1 (May 21, 2017)

[Publius Scribonius Scholasticus]

Then, I missed a report, but that is good because then my mistake is
resolved.


Publius Scribonius Scholasticus

On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 7:02 PM, caleb vines  wrote:

> CoE: It is not currently legal to deputise for Reportor, and will not be
> legal to deputise for Reportor unless nichdel fails to submit a weekly
> report for the office before 5/28.
>
> On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 5:19 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus <
> p.scribonius.scholasti...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>> The Reportor's weekly report being overdue, I hereby deputise for the
>> reportor to publish the below weekly report:
>> 
>>The Times of Agora
>> 
>> Issue #1: May 21, 2017
>> --
>>  Winnings
>> --
>> In the past week, the Herald's report has been brought up to date. The
>> Herald has also initiated an attempt to grant wins to all players by Apathy
>> and a Victory Election. They have also issued an intent to grant a badge to
>> all persons participating in the Great Agoran Revival, long may the period
>> reign.
>> ---
>>  Languages
>> ---
>> After 天火狐, issued an attempt to amend eir organization, a recent CFJ has
>> been called to decide whether he was a member of the organization and
>> whether all messages are ambiguous. After this further discussion ensued
>> about playing Agora in other languages, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
>> intends to write a thesis on this topic.
>> 
>>  GitHub
>> 
>> In the past week, GitHub has become a popular means for drafting reports
>> and automation has been a hot topic. However, after discussion, it was
>> decided that this did not yet warrant legislation.
>>
>
>

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: CFJ 3492 judged TRUE

[Alex Smith]

On Sun, 2017-05-21 at 15:46 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> 
> H. arbitor,
> 
> Are you of the opinion that a judgement has been rendered here, as subject 
> lines
> generally don't count?  (And reads more like an assertion than an action, 
> anyway)

That email looks like arguments to me, rather than assigning an actual
judgement.

-- 
ais523

DIS: Re: BUS: CFJ 3492 judged TRUE

[Kerim Aydin]

H. arbitor,

Are you of the opinion that a judgement has been rendered here, as subject lines
generally don't count?  (And reads more like an assertion than an action, 
anyway)

-court recordkeeper

On Sun, 21 May 2017, Quazie wrote:

> I accept 天火狐's arguments which I will summarize below:
> 
> * Rule 2461 "Death and Birth of Organizations" states that "When an 
> organization is created this way, its Charter is set to the
> value that e specified, and the Budget switch for that player and 
> Organization is set to the Income Floor."
> * Rule 2459 "Organizations" states that "A 'member' of an Organization is a 
> player for which the pair consisting of that
> Organization and that player has a nonzero Budget."
> * "And" implies that the Charter and the Budget switch are set at the same 
> time.
> * Therefore, 天火狐 had become a member of 蘭亭社 regardless of what its charter 
> allowed or forbade.
> 
> What this judgement thus implies is that as long as an organization was 
> successfully created, regardless of what the charter
> says or doesn't say about how one joins the Organization, the creator of an 
> organization is initially a member of said
> Organization. If i were not on Lockout, I'd go so far as to prove this logic 
> by, as part of my judgement, making an
> organization whose charter was simply "No person may flip their budget switch 
> for this organization" - I would be unable to
> leave said organization (as i couldn't flip my Budget to 0), but if I created 
> it, the charter would not stop me from joining
> (as 2461 would've set my Budget to the Income Floor).
> 
> On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 12:01 PM Alex Smith  wrote:
>   On Fri, 2017-05-19 at 13:54 -0500, caleb vines wrote:
>   > > On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 1:32 PM, Kerim Aydin 
>  wrote:
>   > > On Fri, 19 May 2017, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote:
>   > > > It came up as a CFJ when 天火狐 first registered.
>   > >
>   > > If you follow the actual precedent, it actually *didn't* accept the
>   > > Japanse-character nickname, but instead recommended transliteration:
>   > >    https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/?3467
>   > >
>   > > However, that has faced a "soft overrule" in that everyone ignored 
> it
>   > > and continued to use the Japanese characters.  And regardless, it 
> goes
>   > > out of its way to mention that Registration is a special, lenient 
> case.
>   > >
>   > > On Fri, 19 May 2017, caleb vines wrote:
>   > > > Are there any pending CFJ's regarding Organization 蘭亭社?  I don't 
> see
>   > > > any, but I did join after the organization was already chartered 
> so I'd
>   > > > rather be sure.
>   > >
>   > > Not pending, but this one was DISMISSED:
>   > > https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/?3478
>   > >
>   > > while noting there was no way to join the organization, so maybe you
>   > > didn't actually join?  Dunno if it's relevant to the current text of
>   > > the organization, haven't been following since that CFJ.
>   > >
>   > Following this discussion, I submit a Call for Judgment for each of 
> the
>   > following statement:
>   >
>   > "天火狐 is a member of 蘭亭社."
> 
>   This is CFJ 3492. I assign it to Quazie.
> 
>   > Please accept into caller's evidence for "天火狐 is a member of 蘭亭社.":
>   >
>   > The decision in CFJ 1460
>   > The decision in CFJ 3478, specifically the following two excerpts:
>   >
>   > > There are plenty of lines which are potentially ambiguous; for 
> example,
>   > > paragraph 5 machine-translates as "suitable", and uses the 
> characters
>   > > ｢相応し｣ to represent the word (as opposed to ｢相応しい｣, which is defined 
> to
>   > > mean "Appropriate"). However, some experimentation shows that when 
> the
>   > > word is followed by ｢くない｣, the final ｢い｣ is dropped (both incorrect
>   > > combinations are flagged up as a typo by the autocorrect on the 
> machine
>   > > translator I'm using, which is about as clear a message as a 
> computer
>   > > can give on the subject). As such, it seems most reasonable to
>   > > interpret ｢相応しくない｣ as meaning "Inappropriate", even if this 
> definition
>   > > cannot be determined via a simple matching of character sequences 
> in an
>   > > editor.
>   >
>   > ---
>   >
>   > > However, some lines are very clear. Line 3, for example, is a very
>   > > clear statement of possibility for a Budget switch flip. 
> Unfortunately,
>   > > it does not use the word "Appropriate" anywhere, neither in its
>   > > English form, nor anything resembling the specified Japanese
>   > > translations ｢ふさわしい｣ or ｢相応しい｣. An Organization merely
>   > > stating that something is possible has no effect; it needs to 
> specify
>   > > that the action is Appropriate. As such, I conclude 

DIS: Re: OFF: [Reportor] The Times of Agora: Issue #1 (May 21, 2017)

[Nic Evans]

Could you warn me before deputising for an office I hold next time? I 
was planning on doing this.



On 05/21/2017 05:19 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote:
The Reportor's weekly report being overdue, I hereby deputise for the 
reportor to publish the below weekly report:


   The Times of Agora

Issue #1: May 21, 2017
--
 Winnings
--
In the past week, the Herald's report has been brought up to date. The 
Herald has also initiated an attempt to grant wins to all players by 
Apathy and a Victory Election. They have also issued an intent to 
grant a badge to all persons participating in the Great 
Agoran Revival, long may the period reign.

---
 Languages
---
After 天火狐, issued an attempt to amend eir organization, a recent CFJ 
has been called to decide whether he was a member of the organization 
and whether all messages are ambiguous. After this further discussion 
ensued about playing Agora in other languages, Publius Scribonius 
Scholasticus intends to write a thesis on this topic.


 GitHub

In the past week, GitHub has become a popular means for drafting 
reports and automation has been a hot topic. However, after 
discussion, it was decided that this did not yet warrant legislation.

DIS: A series of small proto-proposals, some of which would be trivial

[Quazie]

Proposal "Why should outsiders be able to Object?" AI=1.2
{{{
  In Rule 2460 replace the text
  {{{
A member of an Organization CAN flip that Organization's
Charter without objection
  }}}

  with

  {{{
A member of an Organization CAN flip that Organization's
Charter without the objection of any of its members
  }}}
}}}

--

Proposal "Missing Shall" AI = 1 (Trivial)
{{{
  In rule 2379 replace:
  {{{
includes
  }}}
  with:
  {{{
SHALL include
  }}}
}}}


--

Proposal "emPHAsis" AI = 1 (Very Trivial)

{{{
  In rule 2327 replace:
  {{{
are encouraged to
  }}}
  with:
  {{{
are ENCOURAGED to
  }}}
}}}


--

Proposal "Prime Minister Says What?" AI = 2 (Trivial)

{{{
  In rule 2423 replace:
  {{{
  The holder of the office of Prime Minister's voting  strength is
  increased by 1 on all Agoran decisions other than a elections of
  the Prime Minister.
  }}}
  with:
  {{{
  The holder of the office of Prime Minister's voting strength is
  increased by 1 on all Agoran decisions other than an election for
  the Prime Minister.
  }}}
}}}

DIS: Re: BUS: CFJ: Difficult for who?

[Edward Murphy]

On 5/21/2017 12:42 PM, CuddleBeam wrote:


I submit a Call for Judgement for the following statement:

"In Rule 2467/1, there exists text content which is "(...) or that depends on information that is 
impossible or unreasonably difficult to determine(...)". Whether if such a task of information 
determination is "unreasonably difficult" or not lies in what the person who would be beared with 
such a task considers it to be."


I present the following argument as caller's evidence:

* An example of what a task of information-determination could be is 
determining what three hundred divided by nine is.

* Newborn children are persons and eligible to become players of Agora, and therefore 
Agency creators and users, however for them, determining what three hundred divided by 
nine would be could be for them "unreasonably difficult". However, for several 
adults, it would be pretty simple.

* Such a situation illustrated above is relativistic in nature, relying on the person who 
would perform the information-determining task. Therefore I believe that the 
determination of what is "unreasonably difficult", in the context of the rule 
referenced in the statement, is necessarily relativistic too.

* This issue is relevant to gameplay because Agency-creation is part of the 
game.


Gratuitous evidence:
https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/?2398

DIS: Re: BUS: CFJ: Ambiguity

[CuddleBeam]

I submit the following evidence and recommend AGAINST or DISMISSED:


If "Every statement is ambiguous." is true, then that statement itself
is ambiguous too, and therefore there would be insufficient
information to determine what it is.


So the appropriate judgement would be DISMISSED, even if the statement
were true.


(Ignoring epistemological mojo related to the Ruleset being actually
interpretable in such a case and the nature of this group reverie that
is Agora)

DIS: Re: BUS: CFJ: Ambiguity

[Josh T]

Sorry for not specifying in the text itself, but this is relevant to
gameplay because Gaelan (who, I believe is assigned this CFJ, numbered
3498, by ais523 [1]) is trying to question the validity of my amendment to
the charter of 蘭亭社 with "Translation between any two languages is
inherently ambiguous" as a premise.

天火狐

[1] http://www.mail-archive.com/agora-official@agoranomic.org/msg07938.html

On 21 May 2017 at 10:30, caleb vines  wrote:

>
> On May 21, 2017 9:16 AM, "Nic Evans"  wrote:
>
> I submit the following evidence and recommend AGAINST if DISMISS is not
> accepted:
>
> -"Translation between any two languages is inherently ambiguous." is an
> untrue statement. There is no such rule in language.-'Ambiguous' in the
> rules refers to player interpretation, not some unknowable objective mark.
> -Because ambiguity is determined case-by-case, it's impossible (and
> fruitless) to make a statement about the ambiguity of every statement.
>
> I submit CFJs 3499 and 3500 as supporting evidence for this gratuitous
> argument.
>

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Ribbons

[Alex Smith]

On Sun, 2017-05-21 at 04:39 +, Quazie wrote:
> You are not ANOTHER person, you can't award yourself a white ribbon.

There have always been two ways to get a White Ribbon:

a) be a new player;
b) persuade a new player to give you a (one-time) White Ribbon award.

There's nothing suspicious about people using mechanism a). It's meant
to give new players a bit of a head start.

-- 
ais523

DIS: Re: BUS: CFJ: Call for Piñata

[Kerim Aydin]

We used to explicitly say in the Rules that True/False judgements were 
equivalent to Yes/No if the statement was phrased as a yes/no question. We
repealed that explicit text, but there's some ounce of possibility that
precedent would allow it.

The most recent CFJ phrased that way is CFJ 3374, but that was when
the yes/no text was in the rule.

(If this case isn't withdrawn, the above are gratuitous arguments).

On Sun, 21 May 2017, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote:
> CFJs must be statements, not questions.
> 
> Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
> 
> On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 11:27 PM, CuddleBeam  
> wrote:
>   Employing the power of Rule 991/17, I submit a Call for Judgement for 
> the following statement:
> 
> "Can this statement have a Judge?"
> 
> I also opt to bar one person from such procedure. That person is the person 
> who would successfully become the first Judge of the Call for Judgement
> submitted by this message.
> 
> 
> 
> I pledge to grant one Shiny (if I have at least one and I am capable of such 
> a transfer) to the Judge of the CFJ summoned via the content above as
> long as rules relevant to CFJs haven't changed since I have announced this 
> pledge and the barring attempt above had barred someone.
> 
> (I dunno, could be fun lol, and I'm very curious about how this might turn 
> out.)

DIS: Re: BUS: Adjusting the Satellite dishes

[Publius Scribonius Scholasticus]

Nevermind, I see how this works.


Publius Scribonius Scholasticus

On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 8:18 AM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus <
p.scribonius.scholasti...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> ​Non-human persons are not necessarily "native" to Earth.​
>
> 
> Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
>
> On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 7:46 AM, CuddleBeam 
> wrote:
>
>> (Thank you for the pointer Gaelan.)
>>
>>
>> -
>>
>>
>> I establish the following Agency: (This is my 24 hours notice)
>>
>> Title: Alien Contact Program (ACP)
>>
>> Agents: All persons which are native to a planet which isn't 
>> Earth.(Individuals of this set are also known as "Aliens" for the purpose of 
>> this document)
>>
>>
>> Powers: At any moment, an Alien may post a message on Cuddlebeam's behalf 
>> with the content of "Hello, I am an alien and I am making contact" along any 
>> additional information such an Alien considers interesting about themselves.
>>
>>
>

DIS: Re: BUS: Adjusting the Satellite dishes

[Publius Scribonius Scholasticus]

​Non-human persons are not necessarily "native" to Earth.​


Publius Scribonius Scholasticus

On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 7:46 AM, CuddleBeam 
wrote:

> (Thank you for the pointer Gaelan.)
>
>
> -
>
>
> I establish the following Agency: (This is my 24 hours notice)
>
> Title: Alien Contact Program (ACP)
>
> Agents: All persons which are native to a planet which isn't 
> Earth.(Individuals of this set are also known as "Aliens" for the purpose of 
> this document)
>
>
> Powers: At any moment, an Alien may post a message on Cuddlebeam's behalf 
> with the content of "Hello, I am an alien and I am making contact" along any 
> additional information such an Alien considers interesting about themselves.
>
>

DIS: Re: BUS: CFJ: Call for Piñata

[CuddleBeam]

Ah, true. But then I guess the expected Judgement is "Dismissed" because of
a malformed statement - the issue is, can there actually be a Judge to
formally grant that verdict?

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Hello and proposal

[Publius Scribonius Scholasticus]

This could also be solved by having a more active Reportor.


Publius Scribonius Scholasticus

On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 5:41 AM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus <
p.scribonius.scholasti...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> I like this idea.
>
> 
> Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
>
> On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 12:17 AM, James Beirne 
> wrote:
>
>> I'd like to register as a player for about the fifth time.
>>
>> I'd also like to submit a proposal entitled "Reader's Digest": {
>>
>> Enact a new rule entitled "Reader's Digest": {
>>
>>
>> There exists an elected office called Digestive System. "Digestibility"
>> is a singleton switch tracked by the Digestive System with possible values
>> "MONTHLY" and "WEEKLY"; the Digestive System can flip this by announcement.
>>
>> The Digestive System SHALL regularly issue a report which accurately
>> summarizes the state and activities of Agoranomic throughout the relevant
>> period. This report need not be comprehensive, but will contain that
>> information, as assessed by the Digestive System, which would be of the
>> greatest relevance or importance for a player who had been inattentive to
>> the state of the nomic during the relevant period. If Digestibility is
>> MONTHLY, the relevant period is the preceding month; if it is WEEKLY, it is
>> the preceding week.
>> }
>> }
>>
>> - Ienpw III
>>
>
>

DIS: Re: BUS: Big Grafitti Wall

[Publius Scribonius Scholasticus]

I like this idea.


Publius Scribonius Scholasticus

On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 2:02 AM, CuddleBeam 
wrote:

> I establish the following Agency: (This is my 24 hours notice)
>
> Title: Big Grafitti Wall (BGW)
> Agents: All Players
> Powers: Any Agent may add additional characters to the text content of the
> Powers of this agency as long as such changes keep these Powers
> functionally synonymous to the Powers that this agency had at its creation.
>
> Cuddlebeam was here.
>

DIS: Re: BUS: Hello and proposal

[Publius Scribonius Scholasticus]

I like this idea.


Publius Scribonius Scholasticus

On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 12:17 AM, James Beirne 
wrote:

> I'd like to register as a player for about the fifth time.
>
> I'd also like to submit a proposal entitled "Reader's Digest": {
>
> Enact a new rule entitled "Reader's Digest": {
>
>
> There exists an elected office called Digestive System. "Digestibility" is
> a singleton switch tracked by the Digestive System with possible values
> "MONTHLY" and "WEEKLY"; the Digestive System can flip this by announcement.
>
> The Digestive System SHALL regularly issue a report which accurately
> summarizes the state and activities of Agoranomic throughout the relevant
> period. This report need not be comprehensive, but will contain that
> information, as assessed by the Digestive System, which would be of the
> greatest relevance or importance for a player who had been inattentive to
> the state of the nomic during the relevant period. If Digestibility is
> MONTHLY, the relevant period is the preceding month; if it is WEEKLY, it is
> the preceding week.
> }
> }
>
> - Ienpw III
>

DIS: Re: BUS: CFJ: Call for Piñata

[Publius Scribonius Scholasticus]

CFJs must be statements, not questions.


Publius Scribonius Scholasticus

On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 11:27 PM, CuddleBeam 
wrote:

> Employing the power of Rule 991/17, I submit a Call for Judgement for the
> following statement:
>
> "Can this statement have a Judge?"
>
> I also opt to bar one person from such procedure. That person is the
> person who would successfully become the first Judge of the Call for
> Judgement submitted by this message.
>
> 
>
> I pledge to grant one Shiny (if I have at least one and I am capable of
> such a transfer) to the Judge of the CFJ summoned via the content above as
> long as rules relevant to CFJs haven't changed since I have announced this
> pledge and the barring attempt above had barred someone.
>
> (I dunno, could be fun lol, and I'm very curious about how this might turn
> out.)
>

Re: DIS: Test

[Publius Scribonius Scholasticus]

Would it be better if I write the subject tags myself?


Publius Scribonius Scholasticus

On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 9:50 PM, Alex Smith 
wrote:

> On Sun, 2017-05-21 at 02:11 +0200, CuddleBeam wrote:
> > Is this working?
>
> It's going to my spam folder, just like PSS's posts are, and no matter
> how many I mark as "not spam" it keeps happening.
>
> I can unstick them manually, but finding a long-term solution to this
> might well be helpful. (The DKIM signature on your emails is
> "h=mime-version:sender:from:date:message-id:subject:to;"; the Subject
> field is getting rewritten on most emails, which would break it, but
> some emails don't rewrite Subject and are nonetheless not getting
> through, so perhaps one of the other fields is being changed by the
> mailing list software too?)
>
> --
> ais523
>

Re: DIS: Re: Draft: Promotor Report

[Publius Scribonius Scholasticus]

​I need to think about it some more, but I liked the idea that the Shinies
would come from Agora.​


Publius Scribonius Scholasticus

On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 9:09 PM, Gaelan Steele  wrote:

> Don’t remember who mentioned this, but I agree that the todo list would do
> fine as an org. Pay shinies to list something (or add to the existing
> bounty), get the shinies for completing it.
>
> Gaelan
>
> On May 20, 2017, at 5:06 PM, Aris Merchant  gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 5:05 PM, Aris Merchant
>  wrote:
>
> Given the current chaos, I'm publishing the following draft report.
> I'd welcome any applicable corrections. If you want your proposals
> distributed, you should talk to ais523 about pending them.
>
>
> I'm also going to use this as an opportunity for some comments on the
> proposals in the pool. Pending List Price Adjustment has a typo (it should
> read "third and fourth" not "thirdand fourth"). There's also a typo in
> Agora's To-Do List (it should read "without two
>
> objections" not "without two objection"). I suspect that the To-Do
> List proposal needs to be redone, for several reasons. It feels like
> the list should be the listers weekly report, and that list items
> should have essential properties the way proposals do (I might suggest
> the number of shinies, the task, and the person who entered it). I
> would like to see the concerns about the exploitability of that
> addressed before it was pended. The concerns about Agoran Education
> Rethink should also probably be addressed. Finally, I warn P.S.S. and
> nichdel that Agoran Education Rethink v3 and Pending List Price
> Adjustment will be removed unless pended.
>
>
>

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Super Election Season

[Publius Scribonius Scholasticus]

The problem with Google Docs/Sheets is that they do not offer a raw plain
text view or easy versioning.


Publius Scribonius Scholasticus

On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 9:03 PM, CuddleBeam 
wrote:

> I suggest Google Docs/Sheets because its super layman and easily available
> for a much wider audience. MediaWiki could work too.
>
> GitHub seems great too though imo.
>

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Hello and proposal

[Aris Merchant]

On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 9:36 PM, Quazie  wrote:
> I guess i would add that information into the Reportor's job?  Seems like
> too similar of a role to the reportor.
>
I agree. The idea is certainly interesting though. Might I suggest
retracting the proposal and revising it?

-Aris

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Alien Contact Program

[Gaelan Steele]

Just create the agency again; you have no obligation to resolve your 24 hours’ 
notice.
> On May 20, 2017, at 11:08 PM, CuddleBeam  wrote:
> 
> I need to adjust it then lol (I think I can only do that once it actually 
> materializes though). Thank you for telling me.



smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Alien Contact Program

[CuddleBeam]

I need to adjust it then lol (I think I can only do that once it actually
materializes though). Thank you for telling me.