Re: [AOLSERVER] Fwd: AOL Listserv to be Discontinued
Op Wed, 26 Oct 2011, schreef Dossy Shiobara: Hi, There has been little discussion or response to this matter, and the few responses have all been in favor of moving the lists to SourceForge. Today is the 26th, so I'd like to do the list move sometime tonight or tomorrow. Consider this the last call for comments or objections. Hi Dossy, As far as I am concerned, please proceed with Sourceforge. Daniël -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to lists...@listserv.aol.com with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] recent updates
Op Tue, 25 Oct 2011, schreef Jeff Rogers: I'll take a swing at getting this integrated sometime soon (available time waxes and wanes, as I'm sure it does for all of us). This patch is a bigger piece of functionality that the others I put in; I think 4.6 is the right target for this. Yup, after the patch all ip-adresses internally in the webserver are ipv6 addresses, so it's really doing brain surgery :) On the other hand, I was surprised the patch is this small. I think now is the right time to mark a 4.5.2 cvs branch; I'll try to remember how to do that and tag it. Sorry if I missed this (now as then); Heheh... let's say we now have years of experience about the reliability :) At least my webservers reliably serving both ipv4 and ipv6. Daniël -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to lists...@listserv.aol.com with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] recent updates
Op Tue, 25 Oct 2011, schreef Jim Davidson: Hi, Cool! Nice updates :) On the version # question a few days back, I agree this is 4.x update. For a 5.x release, in addition to what you listed below, I'd add: -- integrate SSL support directly (comm driver, api's) -- integrate the comm drivers -- figure out some better build environment for windows -- ensure 64bit works everywhere -- finally re-factor the Tcl management -- make aolserver really just a loaded Tcl module The last two would be disruptive but interesting or maybe just dumb on closer inspection. Basically, aolserver could use the ns_itcl stuff along with Tcl package to better leverage existing extensions. As a module overall, the basic startup and event loop stuff could be exposed as commands instead of special case startup code in a custom binary. I think that could get aolserver/tcl closer to command-line PHP type flexibility which enables, e.g., crush in drupal. May be too much effort but something to explore. Maybe I could point again at the ipv6 patch I wrote in 2008. Back there was even not even a response on this list, but maybe today, now the world has run out of ipv4 addresses, the interrest in serving ipv6 is a bit higher. Patch still available for download here: http://www.freepascal.org/~daniel/aolserver-ipv6support.diff Best regards, Daniël Mantione -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to lists...@listserv.aol.com with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] PATCH: Support ipv6
Op Sat, 23 Aug 2008, schreef Daniël Mantione: Hi, Ipv6 is becoming more important, with only only a few years of ipv4 address space left and governments starting to require it when doing business with them. I'm running ipv6 myself for a while now, but my webservers are still ipv4 only, because they run ipv4. So, I wrote a patch, downloadable here: http://www.freepascal.org/~daniel/aolserver-ipv6support.diff ... it applies against AOLserver-cvs. After applying the patch, AOLserver uses AF_INET6 rather than AF_INET. While of course, experimental, AOLserver seems to serve pages perfectly fine on both ipv4 and ipv6, with no impact on configuration files, or TCL code. Everywhere you could use an ipv4 address before, it now simply accepts both. Hi, No comments? I would like to have this into cvs after review. Daniël -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
[AOLSERVER] PATCH: Support ipv6
Hi, Ipv6 is becoming more important, with only only a few years of ipv4 address space left and governments starting to require it when doing business with them. I'm running ipv6 myself for a while now, but my webservers are still ipv4 only, because they run ipv4. So, I wrote a patch, downloadable here: http://www.freepascal.org/~daniel/aolserver-ipv6support.diff ... it applies against AOLserver-cvs. After applying the patch, AOLserver uses AF_INET6 rather than AF_INET. While of course, experimental, AOLserver seems to serve pages perfectly fine on both ipv4 and ipv6, with no impact on configuration files, or TCL code. Everywhere you could use an ipv4 address before, it now simply accepts both. Daniël -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] Switching to Trac to manage the AOLserver project?
Op Sun, 2 Sep 2007, schreef Dossy Shiobara: On 2007.09.01, Tom Jackson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why don't we have an idea-raiser? Maybe it is a common disease among programmers: writing code is apparently the only thing which counts. Ideas are easy to come by; doing--or, getting people to do--is the hard part. One easy way to get people to do stuff is to pay them. There's no point in throwing ideas around if there's nobody--or, no funds to pay somebody--to do anything. If you have suggestions on ways to get people to do stuff for free, I'd love to hear them. Better yet: I'd like you to DO whatever it is you think will make it happen. Documentation certainly needs to be improved, we need a batteries included installation process, etc., but let us first create some conditions for a more active community. Currently, the way to contribute is to stick your neck out. The project needs to move to a model where users just need to stick their finger in. Example: Years ago I did contribute code: A reasonably simple patch to make AOLserver use the sendfile system call on Linux instead of read/write. It was ignored. Not because of bad intentions, but simply because all code had to go through Kriston and was burried in e-mails and to do lists. The bureaucracy of contributing needs to be reduced. I agree a package like Trac can help by providing Wikis and forums. I'd prefer OpenACS over Trac (replacing OpenACS by Sourceforge has IMO been the worst decision in AOLserver history), but it's a good thing that something happens here, the tool is of less importance. So, let's do this. If you need help, or want me to install/maintain such a package, please say so, as I'm willing to contribute. Simply installing a package won't do though, it has to be part of a strategy to make the community more active, make it easier to contribute. I suggest: * A low bureacracy way to contribute patches is built, perhaps using Trac or OpenACS * Active AOLserver users get SVN access and can peer review and apply patches. * Getting SVN access shouldn't be difficult. Daniël Mantione -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] Curl object alternative
Op Fri, 17 Aug 2007, schreef Ali Salem: Hi everyone, What would be the best alternative in TCL for the PHP Curl object? ns_http, ns_httpget, ns_httpopen and ns_httppost. http://panoptic.com/wiki/aolserver/Ns_http http://panoptic.com/wiki/aolserver/Ns_httpget http://panoptic.com/wiki/aolserver/Ns_httpopen http://panoptic.com/wiki/aolserver/Ns_httppost Daniël Mantione -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] aolserver focus
Op Thu, 9 Aug 2007, schreef Tom Jackson: On Thursday 09 August 2007 08:46, Jim Davidson wrote: Otherwise, technically there are a few things that could be fixed to solve some pain points: -- Close the gap between AOLserver's init framework and Tcl's package framework so tcllib, ActiveState Tcl, etc. can be used easily (needs those things to be verified, compiled, and available thread-safe) More integration with the Tcl community is important. Both communities have added to the other. What are the issues? What would be the result of closing the gap? -- Figure out some AOLserver-as-an-Apache extension thing -- perhaps a more convenient proxy (seems possible) or a direct Apache module (possible but perhaps too incompatible and goofy to be useful). I have never been able to put my finger on what the issue is here. AOLserver isn't Apache. Sendmail isn't Qmail either. Both compete over a single privileged port. That is the real issue. Some company only has one IP address and needs to make a choice. Then just run AOLserver on an internal IP and proxy through to it. That is the module. Call AOLserver an application server and Apache a firewall. Nobody is complaining that Oracle doesn't run inside AOLserver or Apache, what difference does it make if your application server is a separate process, maybe on a separate machine. Really it is a benefit, a security feature. With an Apache module, you could: * Get AOLserver without dusturbing other users. You could even ask your hoster to install the module. * There is no trouble like all connections coming from the same IP. You have access to the real http connection (through Apache though). So, I think, this would be a big advantage over a proxy solution, even though the proxy solution can work well in a lot of situations. Besides this, AOLserver needs to get better in replacing Apache as the primary web server on a system, and this means getting multi-user capabilities itself. Depending on the way it is done, it can be low hanging fruit too. Daniël -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] aolserver focus
Op Tue, 7 Aug 2007, schreef Dossy Shiobara: Hold on a second--define superior, please. I see absolutely no reason to run a separate nsd process per user, giving you full process isolation instead of this uid-juggling stuff that Apache does. With Apache, if you want to make a server config change, you have to bounce the whole process which affects all users. If you run a separate nsd per user, each individual user is isolated from each other completely--including server restarts. If they all need to share the same IP/port, sit a reverse proxy (Pound, Squid, Perlbal, etc.) on that port and have it proxy requests to the appropriate nsd bound to its own separate port. Sure, there's going to be some overhead (the proxy) but it gives you the ultimate in flexibility--especially if the proxy can be reconfigured at runtime without a restart. Ok, practical example: We have a server, two users want to run OpenACS, and 20 users simply wants to code PHP/MySQL. Proposal to the system administrator: Put pound on Port 80 and have requests for the two OpenACS users redirected to their own AOLserver process. Now, everyone on the server will see all requests coming from localhost. Big chance is the PHP/MySQL users won't like that and put the argument just use what everyone else uses in place against the OpenACS users. The net here is that AOLserver really isn't designed to be used by commodity web resellers who host thousands of tiny sites on a single box. Commodity resellers are an extreme example of a multi-user environment. There are many web servers in use that have a much smaller amount of users, like a company that has a webserver where some its developers can develop in their own user web space, students that run a web server together on their campus internet connection, etc. Note that it's suitability for multi-user environments is the single reason why Apache did beat IIS. It is the reason Linux is so dominant in web serving. For non-trivial web applications, you're already going to need to have some reasonably complex web infrastructure (load balancers, caching proxies and CDNs, etc.) in place--and as a cog in that larger machinery, AOLserver certainly solves a set of problems nicely. Definately. Daniël -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] aolserver focus
Op Wed, 8 Aug 2007, schreef 'Jesus' Jeff Rogers: Daniël Mantione wrote: Ok, practical example: We have a server, two users want to run OpenACS, and 20 users simply wants to code PHP/MySQL. Proposal to the system administrator: Put pound on Port 80 and have requests for the two OpenACS users redirected to their own AOLserver process. Now, everyone on the server will see all requests coming from localhost. Big chance is the PHP/MySQL users won't like that and put the argument just use what everyone else uses in place against the OpenACS users. Lots of proxies support adding in additional http headers to indicate that it is a proxied request. In certain environments (firewalled corporate paranoia) you can't avoid everything being proxied and must deal with this. And more to the point, there are simple ways (about 4 lines of code in a PerlFixupHandler) to recover the proxied connection address from such an added-in header if people are really upset about it. Again, a practical situation: How many PHP packages support such headers? (Even OpenACS doesn't support them, so you would have to fix OpenACS too.) Can you (socially) convince those users to rewrite the PHP apps for you to use your OpenACS? Technically it ain't a problem (and there a lot of smart users on this list who know how to solve technical problems). But, I'm convinced that if want to understand why AOLserver is less popular you do not need to search on the technical defficiencies, not in the marketing either (how many open source projects do marketing), but in the interaction between the the technical behaviour of the program and the social/political environment. Daniël -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] aolserver focus
Op Wed, 8 Aug 2007, schreef Gustaf Neumann: Daniël Mantione schrieb: Again, a practical situation: How many PHP packages support such headers? (Even OpenACS doesn't support them, so you would have to fix OpenACS too.) i am not sure, where this discussion is supposed to lead to. A couple of years ago, i argued here on the list to have support on the aolserver side for exactly this task. ... two points: a) i still believe, that a aolserver newbies (if this species exists) will have troubles to handle this case: they rather look for a configure option than for a doit-yourself solution Indeed. As this is a very common situation to AOLserver users, this one area that can be worked on in the batteries included philosophy. Daniël -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] aolserver focus
Op Tue, 7 Aug 2007, schreef Bas Scheffers: all layers are easily interchangeable. You can use Apache + MySQL with Perl, Python or Ruby. You can use Perl/Python/Ruby with Postgresql or I think that is hitting the nail on the head: You can use Apache + MySQL People think web development and they think Apache, not in the least because that is what every hosting company offers. The language is probably second and depends on what runs well inside Apache. Unfortunately that would be PHP. Don't underestimate the power of free advertising through URLs. Every url in .php is an advert for PHP, showing the world what everyone uses for his website. TCL is not the problem, it is a great language and superior to PHP. No need to excuse yourself for using the superior solutions. I think a few reasons contribute to the low popularity of AOLserver * It interoperates badly with Apache. Both need port 80. While solutions exits, none is ideal, and none come with Batteries included. Many people (most) cannot rely 100% on AOLserver, despite ocnsidering it superior for web development. * It is bad in multi-user environments. You cannot give every use his own space to develop his website in. Actually this problem seems easy to solve, since AOLserver can run multiple instances of itself since 4.0. * Nobody pushes the development. While AOLserver is maintained and has even nice new features since 4.5, there are few releases and less progress than other web solutions. Despite this, AOLservers superior design still counts a lot. * Despite open source, development happens behind closed doors. Rather than contributing people wanting to develop start projects like opennsd and naviserver. This is a terrible waste of development recources. Daniël Mantione -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] aolserver focus
Op Tue, 7 Aug 2007, schreef Jeff Rogers: Daniël Mantione wrote: I think a few reasons contribute to the low popularity of AOLserver * It interoperates badly with Apache. Both need port 80. While solutions exits, none is ideal, and none come with Batteries included. Many people (most) cannot rely 100% on AOLserver, despite ocnsidering it superior for web development. I think this may be more of a marketing issue than a technical one. What does apache do that aolserver doesn't? If have had very few situations that could rely 100% on AOLserver. Be it PHP scripts (yes, I know you can install PHP in AOLserver), multi-user requirements or political issues. Ok, there are alot of C modules written for apache. How many of these are in high demand? Other than the programming language ones which others are addressing, I'd guess very few, like mod_auth, mod_include, mod_fastcgi, mod_cgi, and *gag* mod_rewrite. AOLserver can do all of these things just fine, although as you say there is no 'batteries included' modules for handling some of them. There is no major technical issue with AOLserver. Not at all. The devil is in the details. There are social issues at work (of which some might be addressable with minor technical interventions). * It is bad in multi-user environments. You cannot give every use his own space to develop his website in. Actually this problem seems easy to solve, since AOLserver can run multiple instances of itself since 4.0. You can very easily give each user his own space to develop a website in (e.g., ~/public_html) Correct, I did this on one of my systems. the only problem is if they want to do things as themself rather than as the aolserver uid, since AFAIK setuid and threads do not interact well. ... and there is one TCL library, all databases need to be configured globally, cgi scripts cannot be run with user permissions and more. For multi-user systems, Apache is superior. A solution could be built using nsproxy with the proxy running setuid as the desired user and sate interps for user ADPs or something along those lines but it would be a fair amount of work that no one seems to be asking for right now. Yes, this is one of the solutions. It can technically be done, in multiple ways, it is even doable, but that is not the point. There is competition on port 80, and you need to have a good story to convince your sysadmin (or find concensus in your open source project) to replace Apache with AOLserver on port 80. Again, a social issue. What do you mean by running multiple instances of itself? Back in the old (3.4) days I used nsvhr to proxy to a few completely separate servers running as separate users which worked mostly ok (there were some lingering networking bugs in nsvhr that I was never able to squash) You can have one AOLserver that has multiple configuration files, TCL libraries, ..., each serving a different domain. See http://panoptic.com/wiki/aolserver/Virtual_Hosting Make this implicit (i.e. give a command line option so each user can automatically have his own config file, tcl library, etc.), and installing AOLserver on a server rather than Apache becomes feasible for a hosting provider. However the server tends to grow in memory size over time and running multiple independent servers just worsens the problem. I restart my AOLserver at 04:00 each night, which is enough to elmininate the problem, but this is indeed an issue for current users. I believe it has little to do with popularity, though. Daniël -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] aolserver focus
Op Tue, 7 Aug 2007, schreef Tom Jackson: None of the issues listed really have a solution. The truth is that if you are doing mass hosting, you should use Apache, the memory footprint is just too great at some point with AOLserver because you have to load each server at startup. At the very least all code for all virtual servers is in memory, at least one copy. Mass hosting of even a hundred domains becomes near impossible. AOLserver cannot be effective in that situation. Apache really is more like sshd, tcpserver, or any other daemon that is just used to startup another process. I agree, but it is fixable. Unused servers could be started an shut down on demand so a web site that receives 5 hits/day doesn't eat memory continuously. However, I am again talking in terms of technical solutions, while the actual thing is to address the social/political problem of AOLserver not being useable in a multi-user environment. A hoster can already sell an AOLserver hosting service if it can serve let's say, 25 users on one server. If each customer that needs AOLserver needs a dedicated server and ip-address, business wise this is a big no no. Daniël -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] aolserver focus
Op Tue, 7 Aug 2007, schreef Nathan Folkman: You might also want to try running AOLserver without the Tcl threaded allocator (Zippy). You might want to try Hoard or if on Linux maybe give Google's TCMalloc a shot. Remember, the Zippy allocator is optimized for lock avoidance, and this comes at the cost of greater memory overhead. Yup, I have installations where AOLserver uses very little memory. Try this with Apache :) wwwrun4552 0.0 1.4 7380 3612 ?Sl Jul26 2:21 /opt/aolserver/bin/nsd -ft /opt/aolserver/nsd.tcl -u wwwrun Daniël -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] aolserver focus
Op Tue, 7 Aug 2007, schreef Jeff Rogers: I'm not trying to be super-advocate boy here, but it just seems like everyone here is making arguments as to why aolserver really isn't good enough compared to apache and it saddens me - if the support community doesn't believe in the product, what chance do I have of convincing my boss next time he wants to shut down that app written in some ancient tcl and aolserver app because its not apache, java, and perl? (to be fair, 3.1 *is* ancient, they're just afraid to let me upgrade it. *sigh*) :) Many people here can give you a long list why AOLserver is the best web development platform. None of the issues we discuss are in the line of PHP/Perl/Java is better than TCL, because this simply isn't true. AOLserver, after all those years, is still freaking awesome, which is why I use it. That said, there are reasons why it doesn't conquer the world. Many users on this list, me included, run into those reasons, despite being strong AOLserver advocates. Daniël -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] Hiring AOLserver developers in Seattle
Op Tue, 9 Jan 2007, schreef William Scott Jordan: Hey all! I hope this isn't an abuse of this list, but we are currently shopping for TCL/AOLserver developers in the Seattle area for full-time on-site positions and are having a terrible time finding people who have even heard of the platform. I'll attach the job description to the end of this email. Anyone interested should send a resume to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Just a suggestion: any Linux/Unix guru with scripting experience just needs a little TCL book to learn to develop in AOLserver. Finding Unix gurus sounds much more doable than finding people experienced with AOLserver. Daniël Mantione -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] OT: Who owns aolserver.com?
Op Wed, 18 Oct 2006, schreef Bas Scheffers: That's been a sore point for a long time; one that I am trying to solve with Dossy's blessing. Unfortunately, having a busy project at work and building work going on at home hasn't sped things up. I came as far as preparing AOLserver for an OpenACS install, but got stalled there. If anyone - especially and OpenACS expert, like someone from that group - would like to help out, it would really be appreciated. I can help set up an OpenACS installation if necessary. Daniël -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] AOLserver's documentation woes and its future
Op Wed, 6 Sep 2006, schreef Dossy Shiobara: Linus's rant really rubbed me the wrong way. I thought considered harmful essays went out of vogue a few decades ago. If you'd rather not use a particular tool fine, but don't imply that people who choose to use it are somehow inferior. I think Linus's rant was on-the-mark: if you feel the need for the debugger, you're acknowledging a lack of sufficient understanding. Linus's argument, as I understand it, says that yes, a debugger is one way of increasing your understanding, but not the best way, and definitely not a way I personally intend to support in the Linux kernel. Ok, who here in this mailinglist doesn't use ns_log debugging? My pages are always full of ns_log statements, and there is a tail running in another window to be able to immedeately see the results. Sure, it works, but a good debugger can make this laborious task of manually adding ns_log commands totally obsolete. It is just the same as all other kinds of automation and has nothing to do with lack of sufficient understanding. Daniël -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] AOLserver's documentation woes and its future
Op Wed, 6 Sep 2006, schreef Dossy Shiobara: On 2006.09.06, Daniël Mantione [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, who here in this mailinglist doesn't use ns_log debugging? My pages are always full of ns_log statements, and there is a tail running in another window to be able to immedeately see the results. Tracing program execution is not the same as debugging (ad-hoc program state inspection). Huh? What do you think the step-into and step-over buttons of a debugger are being used for? Tracing the program execution perhaps? I don't think Linus would ever seriously suggest removing printk() from the Linux kernel and corresponding klogd. Exactly, so he is a bit hypocrite, as he does use a debugger, a primitive one, and rejects more advanced debuggers that would make him more productive. Daniël -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] AOLserver's documentation woes and its future
Op Wed, 6 Sep 2006, schreef Dossy Shiobara: On 2006.09.06, Rick Gutleber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As much as it would please, however, me to be able to step through Tcl code, I think Dossy is correct. You really can live without one. I think the point here is, if you force yourself to live without one, it demands that you become a better programmer. Either that, or spend a lot of time chasing down stupid bugs without the debugger. Just because a debugger reduces the time you spend chasing down stupid bugs, it doesn't force you to become a better programmer. When you have a debugger, what's your incentive for becoming a better programmer? Where's the pain that you work hard to avoid? That is just as stupid a comment as that word processors are bad; you should use typing machines instead because with the typing machine you learn to avoid typing errors. Facts are that for example data typists (people who cannot afford to make typing errors) have abandonned typing machines decades ago. People who have learned to do calculating with slide rules instead of just pen and paper claim to be able to understand the process much better than the pen and paper people. They say that because they see how the slide rule gets to the answer they have a better insight in calculations. It is the same with a debugger. A programmer who uses a debugger sees his algorithm actually working and will get more insight in it. Debuggers result in programmers that understand their programs better because they have seen their algortihms actually work. Because they understand them, they can make them better. Remembering and carefully avoiding past mistakes (why bother, when you can just root them out in the debugger)? Improving your fundamental design repertoire to eliminate known bad decisions (why bother, the debugger will let you finagle your way through even the worst of rats nests)? Perhaps that's the wisdom that Linus was trying to impart, here. Linus has been rejecting source code management tools for years because real programmers don't need them. When he finally used one he found he became two, three times more productive merging patches. He's a smart guy, but at the same time he is a fool. Note also that Linus does use a debugger, in the sense of attaching gdb to a running kernel. You can't debug the kernel, but you can inspect its variables and data structures. Daniël -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] AOLserver's documentation woes and its future
Op Wed, 6 Sep 2006, schreef Dossy Shiobara: On 2006.09.06, Tom Jackson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyway, the code that is causing the segfault is very likely to be the type of thing that you could never write a test for. And writing a test right now, just to make sure it doesn't happen again seems equally impossible. Of course you can write a test for it. Create an ADP page that issues a ns_returnredirect, starts a server with a stripped down test config, and then hit the server (wget, curl, Tcl http package, etc.) and verify that it returned the correct response *and* didn't exit with a signal. Testing can be used to prove the existance of bugs, but is totally useless for proving their absence -- Edsger W. Dijkstra. In other words, to write bug free code, you cannot rely on testing. You have to understand what happens. Now, Dijkstra propably didn't use debuggers, because he didn't like iterative design and instead designed his algorithms on paper, only using a computer after he had proven them to be correct. Daniël -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] SQL parse time overhead is not zero (was Re: [AOLSERVER] build nsd w/o locking?)
Op Mon, 3 Jul 2006, schreef dhogaza@PACIFIER.COM: On 2006.07.02, Andrew Piskorski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If all you're using MySQL (or any SQL-fronted data persistence mechanism) for is key-value lookups, then something like BDB ought to win because SQL parse time overhead is not zero. SQL is not free in that regard. Oracle caches parser and planner results ... PostgreSQL too, but, you need to use parametrized queries to take advantage of it, preferably recycle queries between pages. I.e.: SELECT * FROM users WHERE login=:login ... allows the same query to use the same plan with different parameters. To take advantage of it, you must prepare the query once, and then use it. However, in AOLserver programming, the queries are prepared upon use. Note that OpenACS only emulates parametrized queries, it converts them to SQL strings and then uses the normal AOLserver database API. Daniël -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
[AOLSERVER] New release?
Hello all, Would it be possible to do a new AOLserver release sometime soon? The 4.0.10 version doesn't work on an x86_64 system, and as world moves to 64 bit, this starts to become a bit annoying. I know it is not that hard to fix (copy the offending file from cvs), but this is really going to alienate people from AOLserver. Also, can the problem please get documented? Daniël Mantione -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] New release?
Op Thu, 22 Jun 2006, schreef aT: We are using Aolserver successfully on x86_64 system . Amd opteron RHEL 3.4 64 bit to be more specific I do so as well, but only after modifying the source code. The 4.0.10 source code exits if the size of a pointer does not equal the size of an integer. On x86_64 a pointer is 8 bytes, and an integer is 4 bytes. So, if you manage to run it without modifying the source I'l like to hear how. Daniël -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] New file return.tcl adds vulnerability
Op Wed, 26 Oct 2005, schreef Tom Jackson: On Tuesday 25 October 2005 17:32, Dossy Shiobara wrote: On 2005.10.25, Tom Jackson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey, Isn't running 'subst' on a user supplied variable (requested url) dangerous? We assume that the data in $url has been sanitized upstream -- if it hasn't been, then we do have to worry about HTTP header splitting attacks. What we really need to do is add checks to make sure $url doesn't contain any illegal characters -- especially newlines. Ugh. Actually you can't do this, because a url can contain chars that are legal for a url, but dangerous to run 'subst' on. All you need to do is to 'not run subst', it is only used to avoid the need to quote in this particular case. For example: ns_return 301 text/html !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC \-//IETF//DTD HTML 2.0//EN\ HTML HEAD TITLEMoved/TITLE /HEAD BODY H2Moved/H2 A HREF=\$url\The requested URL has moved here./A P ALIGN=RIGHTSMALLI[ns_info name]/[ns_info patchlevel] on [ns_conn location]/I/SMALL/P /BODY/HTML Just FYI, A href='$url' is just as valid HTML, but the single quote hasn't any special meaning in TCL, and thus doesn't need to be escaped. I use it in all my code. Daniël -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] Performance-Problems
Op Thu, 20 Oct 2005, schreef Nima Mazloumi: Dear all, we have problems with our aolserver installation and I was wondering if someone could give us some insight. Please find the details below. Any help or comment appreciated! Thank you very much, Nima Mazloumi You should tune OpenACS, not AOLserver. OpenACS does execute really a lot of code for serving a page; tuning AOLserver caches etc. won't help much since OpenACS uses its own adp parser. The only thing that might be interresting is the PostgreSQL configuration in the AOLServer config file, make sure there are enough spare connections available, OpenACS can use up to 3 connections to serve a page. AOLserver is rather fast (I have a P2-266 that uses standard ADP-pages and it can serve 40 of those a second), but OpenACS is very heavy, on my laptop (P4-1800) I can get OpenACS to serve only about 20 pages a second, a rather low number for AOLserver standards. Is the performance mode enabled? What size is the memoize cache? Does the master template do a lot of things? Daniël -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] AOLserver Wiki is now running MediaWiki!
Op Thu, 6 Oct 2005, schreef Dossy Shiobara: I'd like to hear what people think now that the wiki is running MediaWiki. Will this encourage you to use it more? Less? You should convince the Wikipedia-developers to port it to AOLServer native; the performance of AOLServer would be a big help to their overloaded server farm :) Seriously, the actual Wiki used doesn't matter much to me. While MediaWiki is certainly a lot more advanced than WiKit; WiKit is Tcl, MediaWiki is PHP. It ain't good for the Tcl programming language if one of its killer apps is dumped. Daniël P.s. Is there a way to make this list accept another from-address? My posting got rejected from my current e-mail address. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
[AOLSERVER] How about... compiling alternative languages into TCL?
Hi, While we're talking about supporting alternative languages, debuggers a little about compilers. How about writing an OpenACS-styled compiler that can compile a language into Tcl. Ok, it might sound a bit silly perhaps and it definately won't be suitable for a lot of languages (definately not for Java). For other languages, like PHP, the idea sounds very feasible. To those unknown to the OpenACS compiler; OpenACS has its own adp parser which is way more powerfull than the AOLserver adp parser. An OpenACS adp page is compiler into a tcl script which is executed when the page is requested. The compiler overhead is almost completely eliminated by use of the nscache module, each page is only compiled once. What's the idea? Well, such a compiler would not be a very large piece of Tcl code as far as I can see, which can easily be maintained and supported by the AOLserver community. Asking people to join the PHP project to maintain and improve the AOLserver specific code is a lot less fun for the AOLserver community. After all we are TCL-coders. Another advantage might be that it is possible to map some library functions onto AOLserver native APIs and I'm specifically talking about database APIs here. Suppose the PHP MySQL interface is mapped to the AOLserver database API. AOLserver has connection pooling, so scalability improves. While the compiler might not be a lot of code, the libraries would be; PHP comes with a lot of them. This is a disadvantage. However, while the compiler would need a little more skilled programmers, library functions can be written by any AOLserver programmer; the community might be able to provide a lot of them. Well, I was that enthousiastic of the idea that I started doing programming, and within 3 hours (!) I programmed a working tokenizer for PHP. A parser would be a bit more work of course, but it seems the idea is very feasible. Greetings, Daniël Mantione -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] How about... compiling alternative languages into TCL?
On Tue, 25 May 2004, Tom Jackson wrote:
On Tue, 2004-05-25 at 08:20, Daniël Mantione wrote:
To those unknown to the OpenACS compiler; OpenACS has its own adp parser
which is way more powerfull than the AOLserver adp parser.
Actually the OpenACS parser doesn't exist, ATS uses ns_register_adptag
and ns_adp_parse. One big problem with this setup is that recusion is
difficult, making it difficult to extend the templating system, but it
works great for tags which do not need to parse their content.
Hmmm. Are we looking at the same code? I'm quite sure it converts the
.adp .tcl into a Tcl script, which it then evaluates. That would be
contradictory with ns_adp_parse. Well, time to take a closer look at it,
What's the idea? Well, such a compiler would not be a very large piece of
Tcl code as far as I can see,
Tcl is very limited in data structures. You would need to be able to map
each PHP data structure to tcl.
Yes, that's the hard part. I think it should be possible to map most
datastructures, but for classes I don't know yet if that'll be possible.
Well, I was that enthousiastic of the idea that I started doing
programming, and within 3 hours (!) I programmed a working tokenizer for
PHP. A parser would be a bit more work of course, but it seems the idea is
very feasible.
I've done a template tokenizer/parser/compiler for a tcl-like templating
language to tcl code, I'd like to do the same thing with PHP. It would
be interesting to see what a tokenizer for PHP looks like.
Here 'ya go :) It tokenizes already a lot of php-files correctly, but
there will of course certainly be bugs.
Daniël
#!/usr/bin/tclsh
#
#This script should become a Php - Tcl compiler
array set keywords {
__CLASS__ _CLASS
__FILE___FILE
__FUNCTION _FUNCTION
__LINE___LINE
__METHOD_METHOD
exception EXCEPTION
and AND
array ARRAY
as AS
break BREAK
caseCASE
cfunction CFUNCTION
class CLASS
const CONST
continueCONTINUE
declare DECLARE
default DEFAULT
die DIE
do DO
elseELSE
elseif ELSEIF
empty EMPTY
enddeclare ENDDECLARE
endfor ENDFOR
endforeach ENDFOREACH
endif ENDIF
endswitch ENDSWITCH
endwhileENDWHILE
evalEVAL
exitEXIT
extends EXTENDS
for FOR
foreach FOREACH
functionFUNCTION
global GLOBAL
if IF
include INCLUDE
include_onceINCLUDEONCE
isset ISSET
listLIST
new NEW
old_functionOLDFUNCTION
or OR
php_user_filter PHPUSERFILTER
print PRINT
require REQUIRE
require_onceREQUIRE_ONCE
return RETURN
static STATIC
switch SWITCH
unset UNSET
use USE
var VAR
while WHILE
xor XOR
}
proc php_skip_whitespace {} {
global php ptr tokenendptr token
set c [string index $php $ptr]
while {[string match \[ \t\n\r\] $c]} {
incr ptr
set c [string index $php $ptr]
}
}
proc php_get_token {} {
global php ptr tokenendptr token endtoken keywords
php_skip_whitespace
switch -glob -- [string range $php $ptr [expr $ptr + 1]] {
\\? {
# End of chunk
if {$endtoken == ?} then {
set token END_OF_CHUNK
set tokenendptr [expr $ptr + 2]
}
}
% {
# End of chunk
if {$endtoken == %} then {
set token END_OF_CHUNK
set tokenendptr [expr $ptr + 2]
}
}
// {
# Comment, skip until end of line
incr ptr 2
set c [string index $php $ptr]
while {$c != \n} {
incr ptr
set c [string index $php $ptr]
}
incr ptr
# Recurse to get really token (might be whitespace comment again).
php_get_token
}
/\\* {
# Comment, skip until */
incr ptr 2
set s [string range $php $ptr [expr $ptr + 1]]
while {$s != */} {
incr ptr
set s [string range $php $ptr [expr $ptr + 1]]
}
incr ptr 2
# Recurse to get really token (might be whitespace comment again).
php_get_token
}
'* {
# Literal string
set
Re: [AOLSERVER] POLL: What's your preferred online communication medium?
On Tue, 25 May 2004, Dossy wrote: I'd like to start up several chats, but I'd like to judge the most effective medium for each chat. To that end, I'd like to poll everyone and find out what your preferred chat mediums are (AOL IM, MSN IM, Yahoo! IM, IRC, etc.). Please respond directly to me by 5:00 PM US/Eastern today -- tomorrow at the absolute latest. I'd like to know what your top four choices are (listed in order) including the following information for each one: 1) Name of medium (AOL IM, EFnet IRC, freenode IRC, Jabber, etc.) Irc is my preferred medium. I don't mind what kind of network, but for the Free Pascal project we use the Freenode network. 2) How many hours per day do you spend connected/available for chat on this medium? If I log in it's usually for a few hours. But it's mostly in burst. Sometimes I am on irc every day, and sometimes offline for weeks. 3) What is your screen name/identifier that you typically use on this medium? ?? 4) (Optional) Why do you feel this medium would be best for hosting an online chat? Sure. Daniël -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] ANN: New project leader for AOLserver
On Thu, 20 May 2004, Dossy wrote: 1) www.aolserver.com website revamp The project website deserves a more modern look and feel while maintaining the crisp, clean design aspects of the site. The site needs to clearly represent the most current releases and recent changes. Specific information that should be easily accessible on the website initially: - what it is - how it's different - where is useful, where it's not - how to get started - basic guide, notes for apache users - latest source and binary bundles - basic intro docs and extensive, complete, accurate manpages One role needs to be filled here: Webmaster. The project needs two Webmasters to ensure good responsiveness to keeping the site current in a timely fashion. My congratulations! Some comments here: When I tell people about AOLserver, they usually respond very sceptical. Over time I have thought a little about why and I think the following reasons might contribute to that: - It's not L.A.M.P. People are sceptical to changes of the way of doing things and often act like sheep. - Alltough baseless, the name AOL is not really associated by people with open-source. Actually I think AOL has done great contributions with Mozilla and AOLserver, but people associate the name AOL more quickly with than with freedom. - Perhaps ridiculous, but it happened several times that I had to explain to some people that AOLserver was open-source. They had made some quick conclusion from the .com address. Clearly AOLservers biggest competitor is PHP. Were the current website falls short is to explain why people need to choose AOLserver over Apache/PHP. I.e.: - AOLserver is many, many times faster. - Much better API. - No trouble with thousands of, incompatible, stupid, database abstaction layers. Currently the website states that AOLserver is the backbone of the largest, busiest production environment in the world. These are first words you tell to your visitors. Perhaps something like AOLserver is an exceptionally powerfull webserver for dynamic websites. It features a powerfull web programming API and is hailed as the fastest webserver in the world. would be better promotion? Technically: I think it is a huge mistake to host www.aolserver.com on Apache. www.aolserver.com should be a demonstration of the power of AOLserver. The pages should load instant an fast to demonstrate the performance. Community: The OpenACS forums that the AOLserver website once had were great and I think their disappearance was a great loss to the community. I am in favour of a return of OpenACS. Just my 2 cents Greetings, Daniël Mantione -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] ANN: New project leader for AOLserver
On Fri, 21 May 2004, Bernd Eidenschink wrote: PHP works with AOLserver, at least some folks use it. I don't know how well maintained the bridge ist, nor if PHP can be compiled with 4.0, but supporting PHP would be absolutely no harm. I would think of it as the honeypot. It would allow people to use and maintain their (needed) PHP applications and let them eventually get used to TCL. Yes, but it does not make sense. Why would you run AOLserver if you want to run PHP-scripts? Even I run them on Apache. Supporting PHP might sound comfortable to people, and it'll definately help them to run their legacy scripts, but it is not what AOLserver is about. AOLserver can only be used to it full potential if TCL is used. The message to new users should be Yes. You have to switch to TCL, but, don't worry, we're sure you'll regret that you didn't do it before instead of Switch to AOLserver, it's easy and nothing has to change for you. Daniël -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] ANN: New project leader for AOLserver
On Fri, 21 May 2004, Dossy wrote: On 2004.05.21, Daniël Mantione [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The message to new users should be Yes. You have to switch to TCL, but, don't worry, we're sure you'll regret that you didn't do it before instead of Switch to AOLserver, it's easy and nothing has to change for you. See, I disagree here. The message should probably be something like: Switch to AOLserver, you'll be able to leverage the vast knowledge you already have and be as productive as you already are. Then, as you learn more and more Tcl and how to take advantage of AOLserver's features, you'll be even more productive. Ok, fine with me! But, if you want to tell this to your potential users, you must also give them a reason to switch. If the reason to switch is not to use TCL and use the AOLserver API, what is it? Users won't switch because they can leverage the vast knowledge they already have, for the simple reason they can already do that on Apache. So, what advantage does it then have to run PHP (or language x) on AOLserver instead of Apache? This a critical in the communication to potential users, since, likely they already use Apache. - Is PHP faster on AOLserver than on Apache? - Does running PHP on AOLserver provide you with more power? - ??? Actually, I think it is, at this time, better to run PHP on Apache, even though it can be run on AOLserver. This is an issue the project would then need to focus on. Greetings, Daniël Mantione -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] ANN: New project leader for AOLserver
On Fri, 21 May 2004, Bernd Eidenschink wrote: Ok, fine with me! But, if you want to tell this to your potential users, you must also give them a reason to switch. If the reason to switch is not to use TCL and use the AOLserver API, what is it? Users won't switch because they can leverage the vast knowledge they already have, for the simple reason they can already do that on Apache. Oh, there are a lot of people out there that will give AOLserver a try if only they are able to use it with something they need anyway, let's assume PHP for the sake of that thread. So, if I may summarize your text, according to you AOLserver should look for wide looking users that like to experiment a bit. They will see the merits of AOLserver and start to like it. The current advertisement to new users is okay. This certainly true. I think it is for most of us the way we became AOLserver users and deeply conservative people will be the last ones who'll try it. My original point was about skepticism that a lot of people seem to have with regard to AOLserver. To do something about that, the project can advertise itself in a more friendly way to people on the website. My point was, that if you choose AOLserver, you choose Tcl and the project should be clear to people that AOLserver is not a better PHP-server than Apache, but a beautifully designed architecture on its own merits. Now you can say we only want people with a broad view and they will find us, so the current communication is okay. I would have a bit broader ambition and try to get more people interrested in AOLserver, actually the project is pretty small currently. And then we get again the question, why should they use AOLserver over Apache if the advantage is not the TCL oriented design? You know, I don't mind at all what the answer is, but this matter is about the focus of the project, what it would like to be etc. If you want to advertise PHP support, you should then, preferably, be better at some PHP-realted things than Apache. You can also say, we support PHP as good as we can, but if you have choosen AOLserver you have choosen TCL. In the second case, being better than Apache is not required, being just is then a good point to target. So, what advantage does it then have to run PHP (or language x) on AOLserver instead of Apache? This a critical in the communication to potential users, since, likely they already use Apache. One advantage is that an AOLserver administrator, confronted with the requirement to offer PHP (for WHATEVER reason), would simply add PHP to AOLserver with no need to install Apache. Because it's AOLserver he/she is competent in, not Apache. This scenario is the opposite of yours, where the person already likes and runs AOLserver and does not have to be convinced. This is a bit off topic. Of course this is true; preferably I would like to run a single webserver and simply copy php files I download into it. Remember that we're not discussing wether different languages need to be supported, the answer is of course!!. Instead, we're discussing what the position and meaning of these alternative languages is within AOLserver. Greetings, Daniël Mantione -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] ANN: New project leader for AOLserver
On Fri, 21 May 2004, Bas Scheffers wrote: Then they shouldn't be writing those bugs in the first place! ;-) Sorry but this is complete nonsense and often said by people who never used a good debugger. I have never used any debugging tools other than puts or System.out.println(), never needed it. But then again, I haven't done any C programming either... puts can be used as a debugger. However it completely falls short of the power a good debugging environment can provide. You know, besides using AOLserver I'm a developer of the Free Pascal compiler. A compiler is definately way too complicated to be debugged with writeln, as it's called in Pascal. So we use gdb. Now I can tell you, gdb is powerfull enough to be able to debug the compiler, but we're currently in no way as effective in debugging the compiler as we did a few years ago. Reason? A few years ago Free Pascal could still be compiled by Borland Pascal and we were able to debug it with Turbo Debugger. I can assure you, we lost *a* *lot* productivity by having to switch to gdb. And I can't even think about how to debug the compiler with writeln. Imagine a memory corruption bug that occurs halfway when the compiler is compiling itself. You'll have no idea when the memory was corrupted, you only know when the memory is accessed and contains wrong values. Go searching without a debugger :) Come to think of it, I never see anyone in our company use a debugger for Java and I can assure you we write very reliable software! This is because a debugger does not make you find more bugs. It only helps you to understand them more quickly. Daniël -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] ANN: New project leader for AOLserver
On Fri, 21 May 2004, Dossy wrote: No, the point is that in the future they WILL learn and use Tcl, but in order to make the initial switch, they don't HAVE to start from scratch and spend a long time climbing the learning curve before they can feel really productive again. Ok, that's a good position! Actually, I think it is, at this time, better to run PHP on Apache, even though it can be run on AOLserver. Why do you think this? What specifically makes you think or feel this way? It's a while back when I tried to run PHP in AOLserver, but the following contributes to it: - Instability. At that time PHP crashed AOLserver easily. - Few people in the AOLserver community use PHP. It says a lot that few people know for sure if it works. - The AOLserver support code in PHP did look very primitive. I didn't saw any code calling AOLserver APIs to get access to http headers etc., which meant a lot of functionality would not be present in PHP. - Apache is the supported webserver for PHP. - Easy to install. It's much easier to install Apache+PHP from my Linux CD than the process of downloading, configuring, install all headers it needs and compiling it to get PHP compiled for AOLserver. And why not use PHP on Apache? All that's needed is an extra IP-address and Apache and AOLserver and share their server like brothers, both doing what the're good at. This is an issue the project would then need to focus on. Yes, once we can identify why people might feel or think the way you do, we can identify ways to address those reasons. That's the way to go :) Daniël -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] Bug #879076 (Output header issue)
On Mon, 26 Jan 2004, Jim Wilcoxson wrote: Are you executing your TCL stuff in a filter/trace? Or doing an ns_returnfile? Those are the only ways I can see where you would be executing TCL to affect the headers but still ending up in the fastpath code. See bug-report :) I'm executing ns_respond -file from a .tcl file. .tcl files are ultimately triggered by a ns_register_proc. But, as far as I believe ns_respond -file allways uses the fastpath code, regardless from where it is called. Daniël -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] nsd and memory leaks
On Thu, 8 Jan 2004, Dossy wrote: On 2004.01.08, John Shafto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was running nsd v.3.4.2 on a fairly active website (FreeBSD 4.x os) for a few weeks and had some trouble with the nsd process growing. I was restarting the process every few days as it grew to 40-60Mb. 40-60MB is nothing. I'd worry if your nsd grows beyond 2GB. Disable the caches. You don't need them for a site that only gets a few hits a day. The configuration below runs on a P2-400 and can still serve 40 pages/second: wwwrun1056 0.0 1.3 12296 3556 ?S 2003 0:00 /opt/aolserver/bin/nsd -ft /opt/aolserver/nsd.tcl -u wwwrun wwwrun1059 0.0 1.3 12296 3556 ?S 2003 0:01 /opt/aolserver/bin/nsd -ft /opt/aolserver/nsd.tcl -u wwwrun wwwrun1060 0.0 1.3 12296 3556 ?S 2003 0:00 /opt/aolserver/bin/nsd -ft /opt/aolserver/nsd.tcl -u wwwrun wwwrun1078 0.0 1.3 12296 3556 ?S 2003 0:01 /opt/aolserver/bin/nsd -ft /opt/aolserver/nsd.tcl -u wwwrun wwwrun 0.0 1.3 12296 3556 ?S 2003 0:00 /opt/aolserver/bin/nsd -ft /opt/aolserver/nsd.tcl -u wwwrun wwwrun1166 0.0 1.3 12296 3556 ?S 2003 0:00 /opt/aolserver/bin/nsd -ft /opt/aolserver/nsd.tcl -u wwwrun wwwrun1167 0.0 1.3 12296 3556 ?S 2003 2:46 /opt/aolserver/bin/nsd -ft /opt/aolserver/nsd.tcl -u wwwrun wwwrun 18918 0.0 1.3 12296 3556 ?S10:29 0:00 /opt/aolserver/bin/nsd -ft /opt/aolserver/nsd.tcl -u wwwrun The nsd process is running for 64 days now. 12mb is not much at all. In fact, the Apache that does run on the same machine: root 1193 0.0 0.0 97424 140 ?R 2003 0:39 /usr/sbin/httpd -f /etc/httpd/httpd.conf wwwrun 13427 0.2 1.4 98212 3600 ?SJan16 8:02 /usr/sbin/httpd -f /etc/httpd/httpd.conf wwwrun 13441 0.1 1.5 98336 3932 ?SJan16 6:20 /usr/sbin/httpd -f /etc/httpd/httpd.conf wwwrun 18952 0.0 0.5 97468 1424 ?S10:30 0:00 /usr/sbin/httpd -f /etc/httpd/httpd.conf wwwrun 18953 1.4 1.4 98084 3704 ?S10:30 0:00 /usr/sbin/httpd -f /etc/httpd/httpd.conf wwwrun 18954 0.0 0.6 97448 1676 ?S10:30 0:00 /usr/sbin/httpd -f /etc/httpd/httpd.conf wwwrun 18956 0.0 0.3 97424 804 ?S10:30 0:00 /usr/sbin/httpd -f /etc/httpd/httpd.conf ... and those are processes instead of threads; i.e. they do not share all of their memory. It's just a normal Apache configuration, even with a few modules removed. Php is installed however, and it is really memory hungry. Daniël Mantione -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] Input data verification
On Tue, 5 Nov 2002, Simon Millward wrote: This sounds like your trying to create something very like what we have in the OpenACS i.e. the forms API and ad_page_contract. Both of which provide extensive and well organised facilites for doing this. Much of what goes on in the OpenACS' request broker is not database specific or dependent, and for that matter isn't all that dependent on the OpenACS datamodel in general. I'm wondering whether there's a case emerging here for creating the OpenACS request processor as an extension to AOLServer (rather than as a component of OpenACS) Hmmm. At least OpenACS does not use it itself very well, I've yet to see an example of a page that does verify it's input data... But ok, we should take a look at it then. Daniël
Re: [AOLSERVER] Input data verification
On Mon, 4 Nov 2002, Scott Goodwin wrote: Hi Daniël, Yes, this would be useful, maybe as a standard ns_* style command, something like an ns_bind_vars. Right now the focus is on setting up a core AOLserver team, getting AOLserver 3.5.0 fully documented, getting the current modules cleaned up/documented, getting AOLserver 4.0 released, and a few other things. When the majority of that work is done, I think we can look at improvements to the server and modules such as you've outlined below. How are your C skills? Your man page creation skills? Thats where we could use some help right now. Ehm, you are asking me to join the team? Well, I'm honoured but I'm also on of the main programmers of Free Pascal, a Pascal compiler, and I'm quite busy with that too. But if there is some work to do, I'm prepared to help. My C skills are ok and I haven't yet written a manpage, but I guess it's as easy as writing html. Daniël
[AOLSERVER] Input data verification
Hello,
You have propably all build a simple a html form and a
script that processes the form. Now how do you verify your input data?
For example, you want the user to enter a number. How do you verify on the
server side that someone indeed sent a number?
Usually I use the scan command, i.e.:
set r [ns_conn form]
set variabletxt [ns_set iget $r variable]
if {[scan %d $variabletxt variable] == 0} then {
ns_returnnotfound
return -code return
} else {
.
}
Now this is quite a lot of code for such a simple check and you write it
in each form again. I got a bit bored and wrote a library for it. Now it
is much easier, at the start of a script I just do:
bind_form_vars {mode req num} {actionurl req} {tabledef req} {index num} {action}
What does this do?
- A form variable mode is assigned to the variable mode. The variable
is required (req) and it must be numeric (num).
- The form variable actionurl is assign to the variable actionurl and
it is required.
- The same for tabledef.
- index is not required, if it is not present the variable index will
be set to {}, but if it is present it should be numeric
- action is not required
Now, since it is a very basic task that allmost every AOLserver user has
to do, is it perhaps an idea to make such a library part of the standard
AOLserver distribution?
Daniël
Re: [AOLSERVER] Limiting simultaneous requests from one ip-address
On Mon, 14 Oct 2002, Jim Wilcoxson wrote: I have a lame hack I do which is to check the ns_server information to see if there is already a process running from the peer address via a filter. It works for me since mine is an internal app and we have no proxy. The problem with this approach IMO is that there are no options at that point. You can either do the request or reject the request. Even if you do a time delay, your server is potentially hosing itself because it would be easy to use this in a DOS attach to tie up all the server threads in a sleep. At least for us, totally rejecting simultanous requests wouldn't work. And it doesn't address the problem of a surfer on a cable modem hitting all of our dynamic pages one at a time. That could easily be a 10-20 requests per second load. I think you even don't want to limit the amount of simultaneous requests. I think what you actually want is to decrease the priority of the heavy user. If no one else is using the server, what's the problem? But as soon as other users are experiencing long wait times, then you want to take action. Daniël Mantione
Re: [AOLSERVER] AOLserver homepage??
Ok, this is much better! Daniël On Sat, 5 Oct 2002, Kriston Rehberg wrote: Hello, The aolserver.com web site was moved to Source Forge aolserver.sourceforge.net about a year ago but this time we wanted to see if we could use the Source Forge project page and get out of the web publishing business so-to-speak. We wanted to add links, or easily add the documentation, or do anything really useful with the Source Forge project page. Problem was that we had already pointed aolserver.sourceforge.net to the project page before realizing that the things we wanted could not be placed onto the Source Forge project page. So, we put the aolserver.sourceforge.net web site back more-or-less the way it was. The good news, for me at least, is that the AOLserver sidebar is back! :) Kris
Re: [AOLSERVER] AOLserver and Red Hat 8
On Mon, 30 Sep 2002, Kriston Rehberg wrote: Hi! With today's release of Red Hat 8.0 there are significantly excellent changes to Red Hat to make life with multithreaded programs, like AOLserver, more convenient. Speaking of distributions, SuSE ships AOLserver, but they allways compile it without database support :/ Can you convince them to enable it in the future? Daniël
[AOLSERVER] AOLserver homepage??
Hi, I've not been very busy with AOLserver lately, but it I just made a visit to www.aolserver.com and to my suprise it is no more :( What happened? Daniël
Re: [AOLSERVER] AOLserver homepage??
On Tue, 24 Sep 2002, Daniel P. Stasinski wrote: Any bookmarks to docs arent going to work. All the docs are available for download. Are they going to be available on-line again? Otherwise I'll out them on a server myself. Daniël
Re: [AOLSERVER] AOLserver homepage??
On Tue, 24 Sep 2002, Patrick Spence wrote: I put them online for myself, feel free :) http://as.ariven.com/docs/ May take a day in some areas for DNS to propigate.. Great! Now we've another problem; sites about AOLserver; nobody is unable to find them anymore. For example, guess the Wiki is still online, but what's the URL? Daniël
Re: [AOLSERVER] AOLserver homepage??
On Tue, 24 Sep 2002, Peter M. Jansson wrote: if we figured out a way to present that information using the sourceforge project page You don't, just like you don't put a list of references on the front of a book. You really need to write your own html, otherwise it will be a horrible mess for people. Daniël
[AOLSERVER] Nsvhr gone?!!
Hello, Is it possible to place nsvhr on the Aolserver ftp site? It is a little bit cumbersome having to use cvs to get it... Greetings, Daniël Mantione
[AOLSERVER] My GCC doesn't understand -mcpu=alpha
Hello, I'm trying to compile AS on a pretty old Alpha running SuSE 6.1. It tries to compile with -mcpu=alpha, but my GCC doesn't understand this. What can I do about this? Daniël Mantione
Re: [AOLSERVER] AOLserver tuning, troubleshooting, and scaling (was Re: Thanks for your answers!)
On Thu, 27 Sep 2001, Kriston Rehberg wrote: Multi-threaded applications cannot detect stack overflows and can not increase stack sizes so your data can be corrupted. Is it maybe possible (at least under Linux) to place guarded pages at the bottom of these stacks? For example using mmap with PROT_NONE? Daniël Mantione
Re: [AOLSERVER] Is AOL 3.x suitable for a rock-solid application server?
On Sat, 22 Sep 2001, Constantin Teodorescu wrote: Jim Wilcoxson wrote: 2. 2.3.3 crashes 5-10 times per day right now. We have recovery time down to about 10 seconds. If we use 3.X, we're hoping it won't crash as often. But if it does crash, ... I hope from the bottom of my heart that AOL 3.x won't crash because I want to use it as an application server for a 24 hours/day, 7 days/week and 366 days/year application Don't worry, AOLserver 3.x can make long uptimes. I have had an AOLserver on the run once (500mb memory in use while 20mb is normal, no pages being served), but other than that, it never has crashed for me. But maybe some kind of script that checks if it is still running isn't a bad idea. Daniël Mantione
Re: [AOLSERVER] Integer Validation
On Thu, 9 Aug 2001, Matias Diez wrote:
Hi ,
Does anybody have an example of ADP page to validate if
one variable is numeric ?
How about:
if {[scan $possible_integer %d dummy] != 1} then {
ns_puts Error!
} else {
ns_puts Ok, variable is integer.
}
Daniel
