Re: [Apertium-stuff] Requesting Proposal Review

[Daniel Swanson]

Hi Ahmed,

My biggest question after reading your proposal is how will the suggestion
system work? What will people submit? Where will the suggestions be sent or
stored?

Daniel

On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 8:55 PM Ahmed Elhossieny <
ahmedamrelhossi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Apertium GSoC Mentors,
> I hope this email finds you well. I'd appreciate your review of my GSoC
> proposal for the "Website Improvements: Misc and Suggestions" project.
>
> Link to my proposal:
> https://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/User:Cellzawy/GSoC2024Proposal
>
> Best regards,
> Ahmed A. Elhossieny
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Request for Wiki Account

[Daniel Swanson]

The user account for Pedromanic (talk) has been created.

password sent by email

Daniel

On Thu, Mar 28, 2024 at 2:29 PM Pedro Manicardi Soares via Apertium-stuff <
apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

> Dear Apertium admins,
>
> My name is Pedro Manicardi and I am writing to request the creation of a
> Wiki account.
> Username: pedromanic
> Email Address:  pedroma...@usp.br
>
> Thanks
> Best regards,
> Pedro
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Can't connect to Apertium IRC

[Daniel Swanson]

Hi Aure,

[image: image.png]

I just checked, and if I have "Status" selected, as in this picture, I get
the behavior you described, but if I then click on the "#apertium" button,
everything works fine.

Daniel

On Fri, Jun 30, 2023 at 8:16 PM Aure Séguier 
wrote:

> Hi
>
> Since Apertium IRC moved to ORTC, I have been unable to connect. With a
> browser, at the url http://webchat.oftc.net/?channels=apertium, when I
> try to type something and send it, I have an error message saying "Can't
> use this command in this window".
>
> And I don't understand how to connect with a client. I tried each one
> listed on the https://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/IRC but I could'nt figure
> out how to make them work.
> For instance, with HexChat, I don't know which network I must choose (I
> tried some, but they didn't work).
> With xchat and smuxi, I could'nt install it, the "make" file seems to miss
> in the tar file I downloaded.
> With weechat, when I type "/join #apertium", I have an error message
> saying "irc : la commande "join" doit être exécutée sur un tampon irc
> (serveur, canal ou privé)"
>
> Is there a simple way to join Apertium IRC ? If it is, could you explain
> me how to do so ?
>
> Thanks a lot
> --
> Aura Séguier, responsabla de projèctes e desvolopaira
> Lo Congrès permanent de la lenga occitana
> Ciutat - Creem !, 5-7 rue de la Fontaine, 64000 Pau
> T. +33 (0)5 32 00 00 64
> a.segu...@locongres.org
> www.locongres.org
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Changes to apertium-preprocess-transfer

[Daniel Swanson]

That's yet another instance of the broader problem that the library
our compilers use for processing XML doesn't actually store line
numbers correctly.

Probably the better approach in this case would be to print the rule
number and maybe its name and leave it to apertium-lint to give actual
positions.

Daniel

On Wed, Jun 28, 2023 at 12:19 PM Hèctor Alòs i Font
 wrote:
>
> The improvement is huge. The compile time is now a looot faster! Many thanks, 
> Daniel!!
> As for the warnings, in principle it is OK. The problem is that the line 
> codes are not working, just as they didn't previously. If I "touch *t1x" and 
> recompile apertium-oci-fra, I get (after one or two seconds!) :
>
> $ touch *t1x
> $ make
> apertium-validate-transfer oci-fra.t1x
> apertium-preprocess-transfer oci-fra.t1x oci-fra.t1x.bin
> Warning at line 12933, column 15: Rule 97 has the same pattern as rule 4. 
> Skipping.
> Warning at line 15492, column 9: Rule 140 has the same pattern as rule 139. 
> Skipping.
> apertium-validate-transfer oci@gascon-fra.t1x
> apertium-preprocess-transfer oci@gascon-fra.t1x o...@gascon-fra.t1x.bin
> Warning at line 12983, column 32: Rule 98 has the same pattern as rule 4. 
> Skipping.
> Warning at line 15542, column 20: Rule 141 has the same pattern as rule 140. 
> Skipping.
> apertium-validate-transfer fra-oci.t1x
> apertium-preprocess-transfer fra-oci.t1x fra-oci.t1x.bin
> apertium-validate-transfer fra-oci@gascon.t1x
> apertium-preprocess-transfer fra-oci@gascon.t1x fra-...@gascon.t1x.bin
> Warning at line 12983, column 32: Rule 98 has the same pattern as rule 4. 
> Skipping.
> Warning at line 15542, column 20: Rule 141 has the same pattern as rule 140. 
> Skipping.
> apertium-validate-transfer fra-oci.t1x
> apertium-preprocess-transfer fra-oci.t1x fra-oci.t1x.bin
> apertium-validate-transfer fra-oci@gascon.t1x
> apertium-preprocess-transfer fra-oci@gascon.t1x fra-...@gascon.t1x.bin
>
> So, for instance, there isn't any rule in oci-fra.t1x which begins at line 
> 12933 or 15492. In addition, preprocessing often removes comments from rule 
> headers, so that even if you have the right line, it is not easy to find the 
> rule in the source code. I should put this as issues, but I have always been 
> lazy.
>
> Hèctor
>
>
> Missatge de Daniel Swanson  del dia dl., 26 de 
> juny 2023 a les 23:01:
>>
>> Greetings Apertiumers!
>>
>> I recently identified a way that apertium-preprocess-transfer was
>> being rather inefficient and today I fixed it, so tomorrow you all
>> should be able to update to apertium 3.9.4 and see some improved
>> compile times for any pairs not using apertium-recursive, with
>> speedups between 10x and 7000x faster on the files I tested.
>>
>> I'm writing this email to let you know that in the process
>> apertium-preprocess-transfer lost the ability to report partial
>> overlaps like the following:
>>
>> Warning at line 6867, column 4: Paths to rule 27 blocked by rule 24.
>>
>> And I just wanted to let you all know, in case someone was depending
>> on those. To compensate, I added a check to apertium-lint which can
>> report roughly the same information:
>>
>> Warning (overlapping-paths) on line 6852: The sequence [preadv
>> vblex.pp n.*] matches both this rule and the rule on line 6628.
>>
>> Daniel, who is trying to get better at not doing things that
>> potentially break people's workflows without telling them
>>
>>
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Changes to apertium-preprocess-transfer

[Daniel Swanson]

On Tue, Jun 27, 2023 at 5:18 AM Kevin Brubeck Unhammer
 wrote:
>
> > And I just wanted to let you all know, in case someone was depending
> > on those. To compensate, I added a check to apertium-lint which can
> > report roughly the same information:
>
> What's the recommended way of installing apertium-lint on debians?
>

It's available on pypi (https://pypi.org/project/apertium-lint/), so
pip install apertium-lint
should work.

Daniel


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[Apertium-stuff] Changes to apertium-preprocess-transfer

[Daniel Swanson]

Greetings Apertiumers!

I recently identified a way that apertium-preprocess-transfer was
being rather inefficient and today I fixed it, so tomorrow you all
should be able to update to apertium 3.9.4 and see some improved
compile times for any pairs not using apertium-recursive, with
speedups between 10x and 7000x faster on the files I tested.

I'm writing this email to let you know that in the process
apertium-preprocess-transfer lost the ability to report partial
overlaps like the following:

Warning at line 6867, column 4: Paths to rule 27 blocked by rule 24.

And I just wanted to let you all know, in case someone was depending
on those. To compensate, I added a check to apertium-lint which can
report roughly the same information:

Warning (overlapping-paths) on line 6852: The sequence [preadv
vblex.pp n.*] matches both this rule and the rule on line 6628.

Daniel, who is trying to get better at not doing things that
potentially break people's workflows without telling them


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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Tagset Standardization

[Daniel Swanson]

Greetings Apertiumers!

I've been reminded that derivational morphology exists, which throws a
wrench in my desire for full position-independent tags.

I've also been reminded that some repos have .udx files which specify
a conversion between Apertium tags and Universal Dependencies, but as
far as I know there isn't any documentation for this and I'm not even
sure where to find the script that processes them. Does anyone have
any further information on those files? I think it could be quite
useful to document and standardize them and adopt them more broadly.

Daniel

On Tue, Mar 7, 2023 at 2:22 PM Daniel Swanson
 wrote:
>
> Yes, most of our tools assume that tags are position independent, but
> I've come across a handful of languages that treat some tags as
> position dependent, and I was more hoping to make it official to make
> it less likely that we run into issues with that.
>
> Also, I have an idea for how to make a version of lt-proc -g that
> accepts the tags in any order, which might be helpful for reducing
> generation errors, though it may turn out to be too much of a slowdown
> for production.
>
> Daniel
>
> On Tue, Mar 7, 2023 at 1:58 PM Kevin Brubeck Unhammer  
> wrote:
> >
> > Daniel Swanson
> >  čálii:
> >
> > > To be clear, I meant splitting  into .
> >
> > 
> >
> > > One of my ideals for the tagset is that every tag be
> > > position-independent, so that the only reason I need to care about
> > > order is because of FST topology (and maybe not even then).
> >
> > Aren't the tags themselves already position-independent? Both CG and to
> > a certain extent transfer assume that.
> > ___
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Style preferences in web interface

[Daniel Swanson]

Hi Juan,

The only step I can see that you're missing is that the arg-spa
makefile doesn't install the preference files. Here's the relevant
lines in nno-nob:

https://github.com/apertium/apertium-nno-nob/blob/master/Makefile.am#LL270C34-L270C34

Daniel

On Sat, May 13, 2023 at 2:06 PM Juan Pablo  wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> For the next version of spa-arg and arg-cat, I would like to include
> "style preferences" on Aragonese generation, so that users can chose
> different stylistic variants to be generated.
>
> In fact, the current arg-cat pair already allows "generation
> preferences" for Catalan. But I see that they do not appear in
> beta.apertium.org when I select Aragonese -> Catalan translation, in
> contrast with what happens if I select "Spanish -> Catalan" or
> "Norwegian Bokmål -> Norwegian Nynorsk". It seems that apy/html-tools is
> not aware of arg-cat allowing preferences. How should that be indicated?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Juan Pablo
>
>
>
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] GSoC

[Daniel Swanson]

replied off-list

On Mon, May 8, 2023 at 4:55 PM Eiji Miyamoto  wrote:
>
> Hello, I was wondering how should I contact with my mentor during GSoC?
>
> Thank you,
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Two changes in behavior when updating to the last version of apertium-all-dev

[Daniel Swanson]

Hi Juan,

$ echo "El Papa desea jubilarse" | apertium -d ./ spa-arg
LO Papa deseya chubilar-se
$ echo "Lo Papa deseya chubilar-se" | apertium -d ./ arg-spa
El Papá desea jubilarse

I'm not reproducing the pronoun issue.

As for the strange capitalization coming from the postgenerator, no
one has yet come up with a way for it to behave correctly on
overlapping matches, format handling, and capitalization
simultaneously, so my general recommendation is to move capitalization
to a separate post-processor
(https://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/Capitalization_restoration), which I'm
happy to help set up for anyone who's interested in trying it.

Daniel

On Thu, May 4, 2023 at 10:10 AM Juan Pablo  wrote:
>
> Dear Apertiumers:
>
> I have the spa-arg, arg-cat pairs almost ready for a new release (See *
> below the signature if you want more context on the new versions).
>
> I had been working on spa-arg with a previous version of the development
> tools (the one installed by default in Apertium Virtual Box
> https://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/Apertium_VirtualBox). But in order to
> work with the arg-cat pair, I have needed to update apertium-all-dev to
> the last version in https://apertium.projectjj.com/apt/install-nightly.sh.
>
> Without changing anything more, I have observed two changes in the
> behaviour of the spa-arg pair after updating to the last version:
>
> 1) The verbs with enclitic pronoun se (as in: irse in Spanish, ir-se in
> Aragonese) are not well generated.
> 2) In spa->arg, when I have the article in capital initial "El" and the
> next word also begins by capital, like "El Papa", the result is "LO
> Papa" when it should be "Lo Papa".  This might be related to the
> postgenerator, which replaces ~O by LO (but it should be "Lo").
>
> Using a sentence to illustrate both phenomena, I get:
>
> echo "El Papa desea jubilarse" | apertium -d ./ spa-arg
> LO Papa deseya #chubilar
>
> ~/dev/apertium-spa-arg/$ echo "Lo Papa deseya chubilar-se" | apertium -d
> ./ arg-spa
> El Papá desea #jubilar
>
> This did not happen with the old version I had installed before. Do you
> have a clue what may be happening and how to solve it?
>
> Thanks,
> Juan Pablo
>
> *In early April, the Academia Aragonesa de la Lengua, the official
> standardization/normativisation body for Aragonese language (created in
> 2021 by the Government of Aragon, and to which I belong myself),
> approved and published the official spelling rules for Aragonese:
> https://www.boa.aragon.es/cgi-bin/EBOA/BRSCGI?CMD=VEROBJ=1272612550808.
>
> This is good news for Aragonese, as it puts an end to the situation of
> different concurrent unofficial spelling norms. This required, of
> course, an adaptation of the Aragonese translation pairs, so that they
> will generate Aragonese according to the official spelling. I have kept,
> though, compatibility with the previous reference spelling used by
> Apertium.  So spa-arg and arg-cat are almost ready to release (also
> including some changes performed in the last couple of years).
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Wiki

[Daniel Swanson]

Done - you should have received an email with your password.

On Mon, Apr 3, 2023 at 9:18 PM Fares M. Basosy  wrote:
>
> Fares_Basousy
> thank you!
>
> On Sun, Apr 2, 2023, 9:23 PM Daniel Swanson  
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Fares,
>>
>> What would you like as a username?
>>
>> Daniel
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 2, 2023 at 2:50 PM Fares M. Basosy  
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi, My Name's Fares i'm a computer Engineering undergraduate, nice to meet 
>> > you all
>> > can i get an account on wiki?
>> > ___
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>>
>>
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Wiki

[Daniel Swanson]

Hi Fares,

What would you like as a username?

Daniel

On Sun, Apr 2, 2023 at 2:50 PM Fares M. Basosy  wrote:
>
> Hi, My Name's Fares i'm a computer Engineering undergraduate, nice to meet 
> you all
> can i get an account on wiki?
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Regarding Rule Visualization Tool in Apertium GSOC 2023

[Daniel Swanson]

Hi Enock,

I've written comments on your proposal below, but in writing them I
had the broader realization that I don't think this project is
actually particularly feasible for GSoC. I added it to the ideas list
on the spur of the moment 2 years ago and never really considered what
it would actually entail.

If you're interested, I've since come up with a related but probably
much more doable project, which is to convert each type of rule into a
written explanation. A lot of the code for that is already written, so
the project would mainly be about figuring out how to best explain
each part of the rules. You can see what the rules look like so far
here: https://github.com/mr-martian/code2text-cg

Going roughly in order through your document:

I'm puzzled as to why your coding challenge uses a CSV reader. The
goal was to do it for our XML morphological dictionaries, such as this
one for English:
https://github.com/apertium/apertium-eng/blob/main/apertium-eng.eng.dix

Community bonding is actually the 3 1/2 weeks that precede the actual
coding period. (https://developers.google.com/open-source/gsoc/timeline)

I feel like your design and planning stage should ideally be a very
rough mockup of what you have in mind in the proposal itself and then
refine that plan as you go along (ideally based on feedback from
multiple people, though realistically it'll probably just be your
assigned mentors).

Implementation being only 2 weeks is highly unrealistic. You haven't
said much about the rules in your proposal, which makes it sound like
you plan to do all of them, which creates problems since we have
something like 10-15 different formats, and several of them would be
essentially independent from one another in the context of this
project.

You can drop integration, since there's not much of anything to
integrate the tool with. In fact you can probably even drop
optimization - this is a debugging tool, so it's not crucial for it to
run at maximum speed.

Hope all that is helpful,
Daniel

On Fri, Mar 31, 2023 at 6:46 PM Enock Arthur  wrote:
>
> Hi! I am Enock. I am excited to share with you my proposal for the Google 
> summer of Code(GSoC 2023) program this year.
>
> You can access my proposal from here - 
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YiZTSs7jHzlZwcSGYXAiXy4PDs4WmhVC3epheBPb09s/edit?usp=sharing.
>
> My proposal is focused on developing a rule visualization tool that will make 
> it easier to visualize how different rules will work.
>
> Your feedback is important to me, and I would be grateful for any suggestions 
> or comments that you may have. Thank you in advance for your time and 
> consideration.
>
> Best regards,
> Enock
>
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] GSoc candidate: Interested in Project: Develop a prototype MT system for a strategic language pair

[Daniel Swanson]

Hi Pratham,

I'm a bit confused. Your repo appears to actually be a coding
challenge for the localization project, not the prototype translation
project.

Daniel

On Thu, Mar 30, 2023 at 11:15 AM pratham bhanushali
 wrote:
>
> Hello.
> My name is Pratham Bhanushali. I am a third-year Information technology 
> student at the University of Mumbai, India. I am very interested in 
> contributing to Project : Develop a prototype MT system for a strategic 
> language pair. I am well-versed in C, C++, XML, Java, Html, JavaScript, and 
> Python. I would like to be in touch with you" ll.
>
> Coding Challenge -https://github.com/pratham2888/Hello-World
>
>
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] wiki

[Daniel Swanson]

The user account for Eiji (talk) has been created.

On Wed, Mar 8, 2023 at 10:31 AM Eiji Miyamoto  wrote:
>
> Hello, I would like to have an account on wiki for proposal and could you 
> make mine?
> UserName: Eiji
> email:motopo...@gmail.com
>
> cheers,
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Tagset Standardization

[Daniel Swanson]

Yes, most of our tools assume that tags are position independent, but
I've come across a handful of languages that treat some tags as
position dependent, and I was more hoping to make it official to make
it less likely that we run into issues with that.

Also, I have an idea for how to make a version of lt-proc -g that
accepts the tags in any order, which might be helpful for reducing
generation errors, though it may turn out to be too much of a slowdown
for production.

Daniel

On Tue, Mar 7, 2023 at 1:58 PM Kevin Brubeck Unhammer  wrote:
>
> Daniel Swanson
>  čálii:
>
> > To be clear, I meant splitting  into .
>
> 
>
> > One of my ideals for the tagset is that every tag be
> > position-independent, so that the only reason I need to care about
> > order is because of FST topology (and maybe not even then).
>
> Aren't the tags themselves already position-independent? Both CG and to
> a certain extent transfer assume that.
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Tagset Standardization

[Daniel Swanson]

On Tue, Mar 7, 2023 at 6:07 AM Kevin Brubeck Unhammer  wrote:
>
> Daniel Swanson
>  čálii:
>
> > Greetings Apertiumers!
> >
> > This morning I set out to change the Ancient Hebrew analyzer from
> > Latin script to Hebrew script (a task I don't wish upon anyone) and in
> > the process produced a search-and-replace tool that understands the
> > structure of several of our source files:
> > https://github.com/mr-martian/apertium-grep
>
> Awesome!
>
> > This script could, without too much trouble, be expanded to cover the
> > rest of our source files, at which point I would like to propose that
> > we move towards greater standardization of our tagset:
> > https://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/List_of_symbols
> >
> > At minimum, I would like to deal with some of the duplicate tags, like
> > impf/imperf, rec/res, v/vblex, pass/pasv, etc.
>
> That would be great! I'll put in a vote for pasv right now.
>
> > My preference would be that we also consider splitting compound tags,
> > like the tense+mood (fti, fts, pii, pis) and maybe possessor and
> > subject tags (px1sg, s_1sg).
>
> It makes sense to split tense and mood, as well as number and person,
> but I doubt it can be done automatically – it will require careful
> changes to CG and transfer. Might make sense to try it on one language
> pair along with the maintainer and see how it goes.
>
> It would be very dangerous to turn  into  – that would
> break lots of CG and transfer rules and possibly lead to more complexity
> in tag matching since you now have to always check for the existence of
>  whereever you check for  etc.

To be clear, I meant splitting  into .

One of my ideals for the tagset is that every tag be
position-independent, so that the only reason I need to care about
order is because of FST topology (and maybe not even then).

Daniel


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[Apertium-stuff] Tagset Standardization

[Daniel Swanson]

Greetings Apertiumers!

This morning I set out to change the Ancient Hebrew analyzer from
Latin script to Hebrew script (a task I don't wish upon anyone) and in
the process produced a search-and-replace tool that understands the
structure of several of our source files:
https://github.com/mr-martian/apertium-grep

This script could, without too much trouble, be expanded to cover the
rest of our source files, at which point I would like to propose that
we move towards greater standardization of our tagset:
https://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/List_of_symbols

At minimum, I would like to deal with some of the duplicate tags, like
impf/imperf, rec/res, v/vblex, pass/pasv, etc.

My preference would be that we also consider splitting compound tags,
like the tense+mood (fti, fts, pii, pis) and maybe possessor and
subject tags (px1sg, s_1sg). And if we wanted to go really crazy we
could consider a broader rewrite like changing our tags to UD-style
feature-value pairs (so  becomes ), though I don't
imagine we actually want to go nearly that far.

So, given that the effort involved in actually making the change is no
longer the limiting factor, what do we want our tagset to be?

Daniel


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Re: [Apertium-stuff] GSoC '23 application

[Daniel Swanson]

I would suggest joining IRC to get faster help:
https://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/IRC

Daniel

On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 12:00 PM Faiz Alam  wrote:
>
> Hi Daniel,
> Thank you so much for the wiki account. Regarding the project, I am trying to 
> set up the Apertium python API on the localhost but I'm facing some problems 
> with the installation of packages (Error while installing packages using 
> "pipenv install --dev" ). Maybe because of the python version used in the 
> project. My python version is 3.11
> How should I proceed!
>
> Thank you!
> Faiz
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 9:57 PM Daniel Swanson  
> wrote:
>>
>> I have created the account and sent the password by email.
>>
>> There are various things listed that we would want such a project to
>> support. Have you tried to get any of them working on the command
>> line?
>>
>> Daniel
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 4:15 AM Faiz Alam  wrote:
>> >
>> > Hey,
>> > My name is Faiz Alam and I wish to contribute to Apertium this year.
>> > I am a Computer Science junior grad studying in India. I am proficient in 
>> > Python, c++, backend development(using django or NodeJs) and I have done 
>> > multiple projects utilizing different technologies.
>> > I am specifically interested in these ideas - "Python API for Apertium", 
>> > "Web API extensions" and I wish to contribute to them.
>> > I need some guidance in regards to these projects and how to proceed 
>> > further.
>> >
>> > IRC Username: faizalam
>> > Github Username: faizalam
>> >
>> > I would also like to request a wiki account to be able to connect better 
>> > with fellow developers.
>> > Username: faiz53
>> > email: mohdfaizala...@gmail.com
>> >
>> > I am looking forward to working with you all.
>> > Warm Regards,
>> > Faiz Alam
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Apertium-stuff mailing list
>> > Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net
>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Apertium-stuff mailing list
>> Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
>
> ___
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] GSoC '23 application

[Daniel Swanson]

I have created the account and sent the password by email.

There are various things listed that we would want such a project to
support. Have you tried to get any of them working on the command
line?

Daniel

On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 4:15 AM Faiz Alam  wrote:
>
> Hey,
> My name is Faiz Alam and I wish to contribute to Apertium this year.
> I am a Computer Science junior grad studying in India. I am proficient in 
> Python, c++, backend development(using django or NodeJs) and I have done 
> multiple projects utilizing different technologies.
> I am specifically interested in these ideas - "Python API for Apertium", "Web 
> API extensions" and I wish to contribute to them.
> I need some guidance in regards to these projects and how to proceed further.
>
> IRC Username: faizalam
> Github Username: faizalam
>
> I would also like to request a wiki account to be able to connect better with 
> fellow developers.
> Username: faiz53
> email: mohdfaizala...@gmail.com
>
> I am looking forward to working with you all.
> Warm Regards,
> Faiz Alam
>
>
>
> ___
> Apertium-stuff mailing list
> Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff


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Re: [Apertium-stuff] GSoC'23

[Daniel Swanson]

Yeah, after a quick look it's not entirely obvious to me how to set it
up for vscode either.

Given the nature of the project, I would recommend testing in multiple
editors whenever possible. For instance, here's instructions for
getting it running emacs:
https://emacs-lsp.github.io/lsp-mode/page/adding-new-language/

There's also various other options listed here:
https://microsoft.github.io/language-server-protocol/implementors/tools/

Daniel

On Sun, Mar 5, 2023 at 11:48 AM Abd-El-Rahman  wrote:
>
> Ah, ok.
> I will start working on the proposal.
>
> the coding challenge was hard since the documentation is not clear of the 
> server part or how to communicate with an existing client which made me get a 
> working client and server and try to modify them to make the working listen 
> to the editor changes.
>
> can you help me with some more details since I think there's something 
> missing from me to be feel that hard?
>
> On Sun, Mar 5 2023 at 11:41:07 AM -0500, Daniel Swanson 
>  wrote:
>
> Account created and password sent by email. You can find past proposals here: 
> https://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/Category:Student_proposals_for_the_Google_Summer_of_Code
>  Mentors are assigned in the process of accepting proposals, though since I'm 
> the one who added this to the project list, I would most likely be one of the 
> mentors. Regarding your coding challenge, it looks to me like you created 
> both a client and a server, which is not what I meant. LSP client extensions 
> already exist for all major editors, the idea was to create a server which 
> can communicate with any of those. Daniel On Sun, Mar 5, 2023 at 9:29 AM 
> Abd-El-Rahman Nasser  wrote:
>
> My name is Abd-El-Rahman Nasser Abd-El-Hameed My user name may be abdo nasser 
> or anything like this Ok, send me last ones to use them as templates One last 
> question, do you consider me to be with you this year? It's my first time to 
> participate in open source and first time to be asked for a task so it will 
> be great for me to participate with you On Sun, Mar 5, 2023, 4:24 PM Daniel 
> Swanson  wrote:
>
> What would you like your username to be? I can make you an account. And there 
> are past applications you can look at and sort of a template. Daniel On Sun, 
> Mar 5, 2023 at 5:47 AM Abd-El-Rahman Nasser  wrote: 
> > > https://github.com/Abdo865/GSoC-Trivial-server > this is the github link 
> of the working server after the edits I made > > ‫في الأحد، 5 مارس 2023 في 
> 10:50 ص تمت كتابة ما يلي بواسطة ‪Abd-El-Rahman Nasser‬‏ 
> <‪abdonasser...@gmail.com‬‏>:‬ >> >> No, I don't have a wiki account. >> 
> Also, I need to know whether you have a template for the plan or not? >> >> 
> On Sun, Mar 5, 2023, 2:59 AM Daniel Swanson  
> wrote: >>> >>> Put in on github, share the link, and then get started writing 
> your work plan. >>> >>> Do you have a wiki account? >>> >>> Daniel >>> >>> On 
> Sat, Mar 4, 2023 at 1:37 PM Abd-El-Rahman Nasser >>> 
>  wrote: >>> > >>> > Hello, >>> > I made the coding 
> challenge but I have some problems >>> > I tried all the ways to do it with 
> my bare code from scratch but ended with some error that made me go on the 
> web with no result the last 2 days. >>> > So, I got a working one from 
> Microsoft and made changes to it to make it only listens to changes in 
> opening, closing, changing files from my editor and prints them. >>> > What 
> should I do next? >>> > >>> > On Wed, Mar 1, 2023, 11:27 PM Daniel Swanson 
>  wrote: >>> >> >>> >> I don't care how you 
> implement it, just that the editor extensions >>> >> (any of 
> https://microsoft.github.io/language-server-protocol/implementors/tools/) >>> 
> >> can connect to it. >>> >> >>> >> Daniel >>> >> >>> >> On Wed, Mar 1, 2023 
> at 12:20 PM Abd-El-Rahman Nasser >>> >>  wrote: >>> 
> >> > >>> >> > Ok, I will do this server >>> >> > Do you need a specific API 
> to be fetched or any general one? >>> >> > Also, I will write it on Node 
> since it's the technology I'm using. >>> >> > >>> >> > Last question, any 
> problem if I used any library like axios or got or you need just node and 
> nothing else? >>> >> > >>> >> > On Wed, Mar 1, 2023, 4:48 PM Daniel Swanson 
>  wrote: >>> >> >> >>> >> >> For the LSP project, 
> how about 

Re: [Apertium-stuff] GSoC'23

[Daniel Swanson]

Account created and password sent by email.

You can find past proposals here:
https://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/Category:Student_proposals_for_the_Google_Summer_of_Code

Mentors are assigned in the process of accepting proposals, though
since I'm the one who added this to the project list, I would most
likely be one of the mentors.

Regarding your coding challenge, it looks to me like you created both
a client and a server, which is not what I meant. LSP client
extensions already exist for all major editors, the idea was to create
a server which can communicate with any of those.

Daniel

On Sun, Mar 5, 2023 at 9:29 AM Abd-El-Rahman Nasser
 wrote:
>
> My name is Abd-El-Rahman Nasser Abd-El-Hameed
> My user name may be abdo nasser or anything like this
> Ok, send me last ones to use them as templates
> One last question, do you consider me to be with you this year?
> It's my first time to participate in open source and first time to be asked 
> for a task so it will be great for me to participate with you
>
> On Sun, Mar 5, 2023, 4:24 PM Daniel Swanson  
> wrote:
>>
>> What would you like your username to be? I can make you an account.
>> And there are past applications you can look at and sort of a
>> template.
>>
>> Daniel
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 5, 2023 at 5:47 AM Abd-El-Rahman Nasser
>>  wrote:
>> >
>> > https://github.com/Abdo865/GSoC-Trivial-server
>> > this is the github link of the working server after the edits I made
>> >
>> > ‫في الأحد، 5 مارس 2023 في 10:50 ص تمت كتابة ما يلي بواسطة ‪Abd-El-Rahman 
>> > Nasser‬‏ <‪abdonasser...@gmail.com‬‏>:‬
>> >>
>> >> No, I don't have a wiki account.
>> >> Also, I need to know whether you have a template for the plan or not?
>> >>
>> >> On Sun, Mar 5, 2023, 2:59 AM Daniel Swanson  
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Put in on github, share the link, and then get started writing your work 
>> >>> plan.
>> >>>
>> >>> Do you have a wiki account?
>> >>>
>> >>> Daniel
>> >>>
>> >>> On Sat, Mar 4, 2023 at 1:37 PM Abd-El-Rahman Nasser
>> >>>  wrote:
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Hello,
>> >>> > I made the coding challenge but I have some problems
>> >>> > I tried all the ways to do it with my bare code from scratch but ended 
>> >>> > with some error that made me go on the web with no result the last 2 
>> >>> > days.
>> >>> > So, I got a working one from Microsoft and made changes to it to make 
>> >>> > it only listens to changes in opening, closing, changing files from my 
>> >>> > editor and prints them.
>> >>> > What should I do next?
>> >>> >
>> >>> > On Wed, Mar 1, 2023, 11:27 PM Daniel Swanson 
>> >>> >  wrote:
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> I don't care how you implement it, just that the editor extensions
>> >>> >> (any of 
>> >>> >> https://microsoft.github.io/language-server-protocol/implementors/tools/)
>> >>> >> can connect to it.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Daniel
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> On Wed, Mar 1, 2023 at 12:20 PM Abd-El-Rahman Nasser
>> >>> >>  wrote:
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > Ok, I will do this server
>> >>> >> > Do you need a specific API to be fetched or any general one?
>> >>> >> > Also, I will write it on Node since it's the technology I'm using.
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > Last question, any problem if I used any library like axios or got 
>> >>> >> > or you need just node and nothing else?
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > On Wed, Mar 1, 2023, 4:48 PM Daniel Swanson 
>> >>> >> >  wrote:
>> >>> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> For the LSP project, how about writing a trivial server that 
>> >>> >> >> receives
>> >>> >> >> the JSON requests from the editor and just prints them to the
>> >>> >> >> terminal.
>> >>> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> For Annotatrix, I hope one of the people who works on it directly 
>> >>> >> >> will
>> >>> >> >> see this and clarify t

Re: [Apertium-stuff] GSoC'23

[Daniel Swanson]

What would you like your username to be? I can make you an account.
And there are past applications you can look at and sort of a
template.

Daniel

On Sun, Mar 5, 2023 at 5:47 AM Abd-El-Rahman Nasser
 wrote:
>
> https://github.com/Abdo865/GSoC-Trivial-server
> this is the github link of the working server after the edits I made
>
> ‫في الأحد، 5 مارس 2023 في 10:50 ص تمت كتابة ما يلي بواسطة ‪Abd-El-Rahman 
> Nasser‬‏ <‪abdonasser...@gmail.com‬‏>:‬
>>
>> No, I don't have a wiki account.
>> Also, I need to know whether you have a template for the plan or not?
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 5, 2023, 2:59 AM Daniel Swanson  
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Put in on github, share the link, and then get started writing your work 
>>> plan.
>>>
>>> Do you have a wiki account?
>>>
>>> Daniel
>>>
>>> On Sat, Mar 4, 2023 at 1:37 PM Abd-El-Rahman Nasser
>>>  wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Hello,
>>> > I made the coding challenge but I have some problems
>>> > I tried all the ways to do it with my bare code from scratch but ended 
>>> > with some error that made me go on the web with no result the last 2 days.
>>> > So, I got a working one from Microsoft and made changes to it to make it 
>>> > only listens to changes in opening, closing, changing files from my 
>>> > editor and prints them.
>>> > What should I do next?
>>> >
>>> > On Wed, Mar 1, 2023, 11:27 PM Daniel Swanson  
>>> > wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> I don't care how you implement it, just that the editor extensions
>>> >> (any of 
>>> >> https://microsoft.github.io/language-server-protocol/implementors/tools/)
>>> >> can connect to it.
>>> >>
>>> >> Daniel
>>> >>
>>> >> On Wed, Mar 1, 2023 at 12:20 PM Abd-El-Rahman Nasser
>>> >>  wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Ok, I will do this server
>>> >> > Do you need a specific API to be fetched or any general one?
>>> >> > Also, I will write it on Node since it's the technology I'm using.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Last question, any problem if I used any library like axios or got or 
>>> >> > you need just node and nothing else?
>>> >> >
>>> >> > On Wed, Mar 1, 2023, 4:48 PM Daniel Swanson 
>>> >> >  wrote:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> For the LSP project, how about writing a trivial server that receives
>>> >> >> the JSON requests from the editor and just prints them to the
>>> >> >> terminal.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> For Annotatrix, I hope one of the people who works on it directly will
>>> >> >> see this and clarify the status. In the meantime, if you really want
>>> >> >> to work on that, your coding challenge is to open a pull request
>>> >> >> addressing any open issue:
>>> >> >> https://github.com/jonorthwash/ud-annotatrix/issues
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Daniel
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> On Wed, Mar 1, 2023 at 12:34 AM Abd-El-Rahman 
>>> >> >>  wrote:
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > Ok thank you mr Daniel.
>>> >> >> > I would like to ask you about another project to put it in my mind 
>>> >> >> > which is building the "Language Server Protocol" if it wasn't 
>>> >> >> > assigned to anyone and if there's a code challenge to complete it 
>>> >> >> > to contribute with you.
>>> >> >> > I'm also still interested in the Node project that you said you are 
>>> >> >> > not sure about it (I need to contribute to it so I need to know 
>>> >> >> > information about it if it is still available)
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > On Tue, Feb 28 2023 at 11:41:26 PM -0500, Daniel Swanson 
>>> >> >> >  wrote:
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > I'm not sure what the status of the Annotatrix project is, but I 
>>> >> >> > can give you a coding challenge for the capitalization project, 
>>> >> >> > which is to fork a translation pair of your choice and modify the 
>>>

Re: [Apertium-stuff] GSoC'23

[Daniel Swanson]

Put in on github, share the link, and then get started writing your work plan.

Do you have a wiki account?

Daniel

On Sat, Mar 4, 2023 at 1:37 PM Abd-El-Rahman Nasser
 wrote:
>
> Hello,
> I made the coding challenge but I have some problems
> I tried all the ways to do it with my bare code from scratch but ended with 
> some error that made me go on the web with no result the last 2 days.
> So, I got a working one from Microsoft and made changes to it to make it only 
> listens to changes in opening, closing, changing files from my editor and 
> prints them.
> What should I do next?
>
> On Wed, Mar 1, 2023, 11:27 PM Daniel Swanson  
> wrote:
>>
>> I don't care how you implement it, just that the editor extensions
>> (any of 
>> https://microsoft.github.io/language-server-protocol/implementors/tools/)
>> can connect to it.
>>
>> Daniel
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 1, 2023 at 12:20 PM Abd-El-Rahman Nasser
>>  wrote:
>> >
>> > Ok, I will do this server
>> > Do you need a specific API to be fetched or any general one?
>> > Also, I will write it on Node since it's the technology I'm using.
>> >
>> > Last question, any problem if I used any library like axios or got or you 
>> > need just node and nothing else?
>> >
>> > On Wed, Mar 1, 2023, 4:48 PM Daniel Swanson  
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> For the LSP project, how about writing a trivial server that receives
>> >> the JSON requests from the editor and just prints them to the
>> >> terminal.
>> >>
>> >> For Annotatrix, I hope one of the people who works on it directly will
>> >> see this and clarify the status. In the meantime, if you really want
>> >> to work on that, your coding challenge is to open a pull request
>> >> addressing any open issue:
>> >> https://github.com/jonorthwash/ud-annotatrix/issues
>> >>
>> >> Daniel
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Mar 1, 2023 at 12:34 AM Abd-El-Rahman  
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Ok thank you mr Daniel.
>> >> > I would like to ask you about another project to put it in my mind 
>> >> > which is building the "Language Server Protocol" if it wasn't assigned 
>> >> > to anyone and if there's a code challenge to complete it to contribute 
>> >> > with you.
>> >> > I'm also still interested in the Node project that you said you are not 
>> >> > sure about it (I need to contribute to it so I need to know information 
>> >> > about it if it is still available)
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On Tue, Feb 28 2023 at 11:41:26 PM -0500, Daniel Swanson 
>> >> >  wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > I'm not sure what the status of the Annotatrix project is, but I can 
>> >> > give you a coding challenge for the capitalization project, which is to 
>> >> > fork a translation pair of your choice and modify the makefile and 
>> >> > modes.xml so that capitalization is in the pipeline but doesn't do 
>> >> > anything yet. Daniel On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 11:20 PM Abd-El-Rahman 
>> >> >  wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Hello, my name is Abd-El-Rahman Nasser and I need to contribute with 
>> >> > you on GSoC this year. I'm from Egypt and have basic knowledge of 
>> >> > programming and concepts related like Architecture, database, OS, OOP, 
>> >> > OOD, Design Patterns and some on technology with javascript and NodeJS 
>> >> > and seeking to know more with you So, I want you help me to know where 
>> >> > to start to be accepted with you. The projects that I want to 
>> >> > contribute with it are one of those: 1. Support for Enhanced 
>> >> > Dependencies in UD Annotatrix 2. Add Capitalization Handling Module to 
>> >> > a Language Thanks in advance. Sorry for my poor English. 
>> >> > ___ Apertium-stuff mailing 
>> >> > list Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net 
>> >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
>> >> >
>> >> > ___ Apertium-stuff mailing 
>> >> > list Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net 
>> >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
>> >> >
>> >> > 

Re: [Apertium-stuff] GSoC'23

[Daniel Swanson]

I don't care how you implement it, just that the editor extensions
(any of 
https://microsoft.github.io/language-server-protocol/implementors/tools/)
can connect to it.

Daniel

On Wed, Mar 1, 2023 at 12:20 PM Abd-El-Rahman Nasser
 wrote:
>
> Ok, I will do this server
> Do you need a specific API to be fetched or any general one?
> Also, I will write it on Node since it's the technology I'm using.
>
> Last question, any problem if I used any library like axios or got or you 
> need just node and nothing else?
>
> On Wed, Mar 1, 2023, 4:48 PM Daniel Swanson  
> wrote:
>>
>> For the LSP project, how about writing a trivial server that receives
>> the JSON requests from the editor and just prints them to the
>> terminal.
>>
>> For Annotatrix, I hope one of the people who works on it directly will
>> see this and clarify the status. In the meantime, if you really want
>> to work on that, your coding challenge is to open a pull request
>> addressing any open issue:
>> https://github.com/jonorthwash/ud-annotatrix/issues
>>
>> Daniel
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 1, 2023 at 12:34 AM Abd-El-Rahman  
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Ok thank you mr Daniel.
>> > I would like to ask you about another project to put it in my mind which 
>> > is building the "Language Server Protocol" if it wasn't assigned to anyone 
>> > and if there's a code challenge to complete it to contribute with you.
>> > I'm also still interested in the Node project that you said you are not 
>> > sure about it (I need to contribute to it so I need to know information 
>> > about it if it is still available)
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, Feb 28 2023 at 11:41:26 PM -0500, Daniel Swanson 
>> >  wrote:
>> >
>> > I'm not sure what the status of the Annotatrix project is, but I can give 
>> > you a coding challenge for the capitalization project, which is to fork a 
>> > translation pair of your choice and modify the makefile and modes.xml so 
>> > that capitalization is in the pipeline but doesn't do anything yet. Daniel 
>> > On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 11:20 PM Abd-El-Rahman  
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > Hello, my name is Abd-El-Rahman Nasser and I need to contribute with you 
>> > on GSoC this year. I'm from Egypt and have basic knowledge of programming 
>> > and concepts related like Architecture, database, OS, OOP, OOD, Design 
>> > Patterns and some on technology with javascript and NodeJS and seeking to 
>> > know more with you So, I want you help me to know where to start to be 
>> > accepted with you. The projects that I want to contribute with it are one 
>> > of those: 1. Support for Enhanced Dependencies in UD Annotatrix 2. Add 
>> > Capitalization Handling Module to a Language Thanks in advance. Sorry for 
>> > my poor English. ___ 
>> > Apertium-stuff mailing list Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net 
>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
>> >
>> > ___ Apertium-stuff mailing 
>> > list Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net 
>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Apertium-stuff mailing list
>> > Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net
>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
>
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] GSOC2023

[Daniel Swanson]

You're certainly welcome to submit pull requests on the Japanese
repository, but due to the tokenization problems, that probably
shouldn't be your entire coding challenge, since we also need to see
that you can work on that aspect of the project.

Daniel

On Wed, Mar 1, 2023 at 9:49 AM Eiji Miyamoto  wrote:
>
> Hello, I am thinking to work on the integration of apertium-3 into 
> apertium-jpn as Jonathan san suggested. Do I need to language data for it? I 
> have already installed dev tools locally.
>
> Also, I’ve found an issue in apertium-jpn, and I wonder should I do this for 
> something like a coding challenge?
>
> Cheers,
>
> *Sorry for your inconvenient to be asked through email. IRC seems weird for 
> my account now.
>
> On Mon, 27 Feb 2023 at 01:08, Jonathan Washington 
>  wrote:
>>
>> Hi Eijisan,
>>
>> There's also the tokeniser used for Nuosu, which uses the transducer itself 
>> to tokenise:
>> https://github.com/apertium/apertium-iii
>>
>> I believe this is a later implementation of what's described in the thesis 
>> sent by Kevin in [2].
>>
>> This method has some downsides, but it also has some advantages over a 
>> statistical model.  Perhaps a way to get started would be to explore the 
>> pros and cons of each approach, and think about what a hybrid model could 
>> achieve.  It would be good to join the IRC channel to discuss all this with 
>> the mentors.
>>
>> Another good way to get started (and it would help you do the above too) 
>> would be to integrate the tokeniser from apertium-iii into apertium-jpn:
>> https://github.com/apertium/apertium-jpn
>>
>> You would need to modify the Makefile.am, the modes.xml file, drop in the 
>> tokeniser script, and that's about it?  Then see if you can get it to 
>> analyse text without spaces (test it first with the same text, 
>> hand-tokenised, to see what the output is).  Again, come to IRC for guidance.
>>
>> The tokeniser.py script is a bit slow, mainly because of Python string 
>> processing.  Rewriting it in C/C++ would be useful, and also a good way to 
>> get a better handle on how it works.
>>
>> --
>> Jonathan
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 24, 2023, 13:03 Eiji Miyamoto  wrote:
>>>
>>> Thank you for your reply. The project seems cool to work on for GSOC2023, 
>>> and I would like to participate in. I reckon there are two tasks on the 
>>> page and could you tell me where to start?
>>>
>>> On Fri, 24 Feb 2023 at 08:20, Kevin Brubeck Unhammer  
>>> wrote:

 > I'd like to participate in Google Summer of Code 2023 at Apertium.
 > In particular, I'm interested in adding new language pair and I am
 > thinking to add Japanese-English as I speak Japanese. I took summer
 > school at Tokyo University online on natural language processing
 > before.
 > Could you tell me more about the project?

 Hi,

 Getting some support for Japanese would be great! I'm not sure if you
 saw the whole IRC discussion, but what we really need in that regard is
 support for the *tokenisation* step, where our regular methods[1] fail
 us, since the text might have no spaces and lots of
 tokenisation-ambiguity. There has been some prior work[2] and it's
 already listed as a potential GsoC project.

 Support for anything-Japanese depends on tokenisation. It's also a big
 enough job that it would qualify as a full GsoC project, so if you were
 hoping for jpn-eng in a summer you will be disappointeda (but having a
 toy language pair to test with would help!). On the other hand, if we
 get good spaceless tokenisation we open up the possibility for not just
 Japanese, but Thai, Lao, Chinese etc. – and of course all those writing
 systems used before the invention of the space character :)

 regards,
 Kevin

 [1] https://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/LRLM
 [2] http://hdl.handle.net/10066/20002
 [3] 
 https://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/Task_ideas_for_Google_Code-in/Tokenisation_for_spaceless_orthographies
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] GSoC'23

[Daniel Swanson]

For the LSP project, how about writing a trivial server that receives
the JSON requests from the editor and just prints them to the
terminal.

For Annotatrix, I hope one of the people who works on it directly will
see this and clarify the status. In the meantime, if you really want
to work on that, your coding challenge is to open a pull request
addressing any open issue:
https://github.com/jonorthwash/ud-annotatrix/issues

Daniel

On Wed, Mar 1, 2023 at 12:34 AM Abd-El-Rahman  wrote:
>
> Ok thank you mr Daniel.
> I would like to ask you about another project to put it in my mind which is 
> building the "Language Server Protocol" if it wasn't assigned to anyone and 
> if there's a code challenge to complete it to contribute with you.
> I'm also still interested in the Node project that you said you are not sure 
> about it (I need to contribute to it so I need to know information about it 
> if it is still available)
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 28 2023 at 11:41:26 PM -0500, Daniel Swanson 
>  wrote:
>
> I'm not sure what the status of the Annotatrix project is, but I can give you 
> a coding challenge for the capitalization project, which is to fork a 
> translation pair of your choice and modify the makefile and modes.xml so that 
> capitalization is in the pipeline but doesn't do anything yet. Daniel On Tue, 
> Feb 28, 2023 at 11:20 PM Abd-El-Rahman  wrote:
>
> Hello, my name is Abd-El-Rahman Nasser and I need to contribute with you on 
> GSoC this year. I'm from Egypt and have basic knowledge of programming and 
> concepts related like Architecture, database, OS, OOP, OOD, Design Patterns 
> and some on technology with javascript and NodeJS and seeking to know more 
> with you So, I want you help me to know where to start to be accepted with 
> you. The projects that I want to contribute with it are one of those: 1. 
> Support for Enhanced Dependencies in UD Annotatrix 2. Add Capitalization 
> Handling Module to a Language Thanks in advance. Sorry for my poor English. 
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] GSoC'23

[Daniel Swanson]

I'm not sure what the status of the Annotatrix project is, but I can
give you a coding challenge for the capitalization project, which is
to fork a translation pair of your choice and modify the makefile and
modes.xml so that capitalization is in the pipeline but doesn't do
anything yet.

Daniel

On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 11:20 PM Abd-El-Rahman  wrote:
>
> Hello, my name is Abd-El-Rahman Nasser and I need to contribute with you on 
> GSoC this year.
> I'm from Egypt and have basic knowledge of programming and concepts related 
> like Architecture, database, OS, OOP, OOD, Design Patterns and some on 
> technology with javascript and NodeJS and seeking to know more with you
> So, I want you help me to know where to start to be accepted with you.
> The projects that I want to contribute with it are one of those:
> 1.  Support for Enhanced Dependencies in UD Annotatrix
> 2. Add Capitalization Handling Module to a Language
>
>
> Thanks in advance.
> Sorry for my poor English.
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Introduce myself and Asking for a wiki account

[Daniel Swanson]

Password sent by email.

On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 12:59 PM Ahmed Siam  wrote:
>
> Hello
>
> I am Ahmed Siam
> Computer Science student at Ain Shams University, Egypt.
>
> Native Language: Arabic
> Second Language: English
> Timezone: UTC+2
> IRC Username: AhmedSiam
> GitHub Username: ahmedsiam0
>
> I am:
> - interested in contributing to the project through GSoC 2023.
> - interested in the localization project.
> - currently doing the coding challenge of it.
>
> I want a wiki account.
> Username: Ahmed_Siam
> email: aahs.co...@gmail.com
>
> I am looking forward to working with you all.
>
> -- Ahmed Siam
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Fwd: Re : GSOC 2023

[Daniel Swanson]

Hi Khushi,

Unless the existing one is both very old and very small, starting
from scratch is a complete waste of time.

The most important thing you can do to improve a translation pair is to add
entries to the dictionaries (monolingual and bilingual). Then, add rules to
improve the output as necessary.

Daniel

On Fri, Feb 24, 2023 at 11:58 AM Khushi - <12khushi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Respected sir,
> Thanks a lot for your response. I am glad that you appreciate it. I wanted
> to clear up some doubts before I start working on it.
> I would like to know whether you want me to work on the existing marathi -
> hindi translator or should i create a new one from scratch. In the former
> case, what kind of improvements or contributions will be expected ?
> Looking forward to hearing from you soon !
>
> Regards,
> Khushi Harsure
>
>
>
> [image: Mailtrack]
> <https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail_medium=signature_campaign=signaturevirality13;>
>  Email
> delivery certified by
> Mailtrack
> <https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail_medium=signature_campaign=signaturevirality13;>
>  25/02/23,
> 02:48:57
>
> On Fri, 24 Feb 2023 at 20:05, Daniel Swanson 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Khushi,
>>
>> Yeah, that sounds like a good project to me.
>>
>> Next steps would be opening a pull request on
>> https://github.com/apertium/apertium-mar-hin and requesting a wiki
>> account to write your workplan.
>>
>> Daniel
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 24, 2023 at 4:09 AM Khushi - <12khushi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Forwarded message -
>>> From: Khushi - <12khushi...@gmail.com>
>>> Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2023 at 14:24
>>> Subject: Re : [Apertium-stuff] GSOC 2023
>>> To: 
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello !
>>>
>>> This is Khushi Harsure, an undergraduate student from India pursuing
>>> Computer Science. I'd like to participate in Google Summer Of Code 2023 at
>>> Apertium. The project involving addition of a new language pair has  caught
>>> my interest and being a native speaker, I was planning to work on addition
>>> of Hindi-Marathi pair. Previously Hindi-English and English-Marathi pairs
>>> have been added by past Gsoccers however Hindi-Marathi pair remains
>>> unworked upon. Before starting off, I wanted to get a confirmation whether
>>> this would be a potential Gsoc project.
>>>I would also like to know the steps that should
>>> be followed after doing the installation of Apertium other than giving the
>>> coding challenge. Looking forward to hearing from you.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Khushi Harsure
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: Mailtrack]
>>> <https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail_medium=signature_campaign=signaturevirality13;>
>>>  Email
>>> delivery certified by
>>> Mailtrack
>>> <https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail_medium=signature_campaign=signaturevirality13;>
>>>  24/02/23,
>>> 14:23:55
>>>
>>> [image: Mailtrack]
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>>>  Email
>>> delivery certified by
>>> Mailtrack
>>> <https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail_medium=signature_campaign=signaturevirality13;>
>>>  24/02/23,
>>> 14:38:51
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Fwd: Re : GSOC 2023

[Daniel Swanson]

Hi Khushi,

Yeah, that sounds like a good project to me.

Next steps would be opening a pull request on
https://github.com/apertium/apertium-mar-hin and requesting a wiki account
to write your workplan.

Daniel

On Fri, Feb 24, 2023 at 4:09 AM Khushi - <12khushi...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> -- Forwarded message -
> From: Khushi - <12khushi...@gmail.com>
> Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2023 at 14:24
> Subject: Re : [Apertium-stuff] GSOC 2023
> To: 
>
>
> Hello !
>
> This is Khushi Harsure, an undergraduate student from India pursuing
> Computer Science. I'd like to participate in Google Summer Of Code 2023 at
> Apertium. The project involving addition of a new language pair has  caught
> my interest and being a native speaker, I was planning to work on addition
> of Hindi-Marathi pair. Previously Hindi-English and English-Marathi pairs
> have been added by past Gsoccers however Hindi-Marathi pair remains
> unworked upon. Before starting off, I wanted to get a confirmation whether
> this would be a potential Gsoc project.
>I would also like to know the steps that should be
> followed after doing the installation of Apertium other than giving the
> coding challenge. Looking forward to hearing from you.
>
> Regards,
> Khushi Harsure
>
>
>
> [image: Mailtrack]
> 
>  Email
> delivery certified by
> Mailtrack
> 
>  24/02/23,
> 14:23:55
>
> [image: Mailtrack]
> 
>  Email
> delivery certified by
> Mailtrack
> 
>  24/02/23,
> 14:38:51
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Extra output from lt-proc

[Daniel Swanson]

The issue is that %[%+cl1%] and %[%+cl9%] are not mentioned in
apertium-yao.yao.twoc, and thus you get non-matching pairs.

Daniel

On Fri, Feb 24, 2023 at 7:57 AM Zanga Chimombo  wrote:
>
> Gurus,
>
> I am getting extra output from lt-proc. From the lexc file
> https://gitlab.com/zangaphee/CiBantu/-/blob/master/twoc/apertium-yao/apertium-yao.yao.lexc
>
> Lines 227 and 229, I expect two outputs (cl7 and cl9)
>
> However I get three:
> echo yekulungwa | lt-proc yao.automorf.bin
> ^yekulungwa/kulungwa/kulungwa/kulungwa$
>
> I cannot figure out where the extra  output is coming from!!!
>
> Can anyone see what I am doing wrong?
>
> Zanga.
>
>
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Applying for GSOC 2023 projects

[Daniel Swanson]

Hi Lahari,

For translation pairs, Hindi-English has been tried several times
without success. I would suggest considering Hindi-Telugu.

For other project ideas or places to get started, you can check the
wiki page for each idea and do the coding challenge. If an idea is
missing a coding challenge or you want to discuss the details of it,
you'll get the quickest responses by talking to us on IRC:
https://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/IRC

Daniel

On Thu, Feb 23, 2023 at 2:24 AM Lahari Sreeja Tallapaka
 wrote:
>
> Greetings to the community,
> I am Lahari Sreeja from the Indian Institute of Technology(IIT), Bhilai. I 
> have taken Machine Learning, Natural Language processing, and Information 
> retrieval courses and have experience in frontend web development. I know 
> Telugu, Hindi, and English languages. And Im interested in adding 
> English-Hindi/English-Telugu language pairs and there are a lot of projects 
> that are interesting and are in my domain. It would be helpful to get 
> guidance on where to start and some issues I can work on.
> Cheers!
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Suggest some beginner friendly issues

[Daniel Swanson]

Hi Kishor,

See here: https://github.com/apertium/organisation

Daniel

On Wed, Feb 1, 2023 at 5:33 AM Kishor Hange  wrote:
>
> Hey,I am beginner, can anyone suggest me beginner friendly issues to work on.
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Fwd: [GSoC Mentors] GSoC 2023 open for org applications January 23 - February 7

[Daniel Swanson]

Hi Peter,

That would fall under this project idea:
https://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/Ideas_for_Google_Summer_of_Code/Make_a_language_pair_state-of-the-art

See that page for further details, but the short answer is that
working on English-Spanish in particular is almost certainly not a
good idea for GSoC.

Daniel

On Thu, Jan 19, 2023 at 11:33 AM Peter Blackman
 wrote:
>
> On 19/01/2023 15:51, Daniel Swanson wrote:
> > Greetings Apertiumers!
> >
> > I've started updating the ideas list:
> > https://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/Ideas_for_Google_Summer_of_Code
> >
> > We're currently at 27 ideas, several of which could use additional
> > people willing to mentor and a few of which could use a better
> > writeup. I'll be working on adding further ideas and writeups as I
> > think of things and have time.
> >
> > Daniel
>
> Hi Daniel,
>
> I'm wondering whether updating this pull request
> https://github.com/apertium/apertium-eng-spa/pull/17
>
> to an acceptable standard, could be a Gsoc project?
>
>
> Also there are 6 open isssues on eng-spa 
> https://github.com/apertium/apertium-eng-spa/issues
>
> Cheers,
> Peter


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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Fwd: [GSoC Mentors] GSoC 2023 open for org applications January 23 - February 7

[Daniel Swanson]

Greetings Apertiumers!

I've started updating the ideas list:
https://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/Ideas_for_Google_Summer_of_Code

We're currently at 27 ideas, several of which could use additional
people willing to mentor and a few of which could use a better
writeup. I'll be working on adding further ideas and writeups as I
think of things and have time.

Daniel

On Wed, Dec 7, 2022 at 7:35 AM Xavi Ivars  wrote:
>
>
> Do we have any plans to apply for GSoC 2023?
>
> -- Forwarded message -
> De: 'sttaylor' via Google Summer of Code Mentors List 
> 
> Date: dl., 14 de nov. 2022 a les 23:51
> Subject: [GSoC Mentors] GSoC 2023 open for org applications January 23 - 
> February 7
> To: Google Summer of Code Mentors List 
> 
>
>
> We’re pleased to announce the Google Summer of Code 2023 program and 
> timeline. GSoC Org Applications are open from January 23 - Feb 7, 2023.
>
> In 2022 we implemented our biggest changes to the program in its 18 year 
> history and had an overwhelmingly positive response to the changes (extended 
> timelines, medium and large size projects and opening eligibility beyond 
> students) so we are keeping the changes as we go into 2023 with a couple of 
> minor tweaks.
>
> Per the conversation on the mentor list this summer, we are expanding the 
> eligibility to include students and beginners to open source development. 
> There was some confusion about students who might have some experience in 
> open source so we have fixed that with this new eligibility rule.
>
> The other change is that we are back to allowing a person to be accepted as a 
> GSoC Contributor up to 2 times (regardless of when their first GSoC 
> acceptance was). This assumes they could still be considered a beginner - ie. 
> they didn’t participate as a GSoC student in 2015 and have been actively 
> involved in open source development since then and want to come back 8 years 
> later to be a GSoC Contributor.
>
> We have shifted the timeline to start a couple of weeks earlier, so that the 
> program wraps up for the standard 12 week projects by early September which 
> is generally what the schedule looked like for many of the past 18 years.
>
> Spreading the word about GSoC
>
> The GSoC 2023 flyer and the new, more colorful and exciting GSoC 2023 slides 
> are available for you to use in any presentations you wish to do about GSoC. 
> We need your help to spread the word amongst your circles.
>
> We encourage you to explore our resources, timeline, the Contributor/Student 
> Guide and Mentor Guide as well.
>
>
> Have a group you think GSoC Program Admins should reach out to?
>
> Diversity in open source communities is vital to the health of our 
> communities. Please spread the word about GSoC to communities in your country 
> or in your network particularly those that reach underrepresented groups in 
> open source. If you have a suggestion for a group you think the GSoC team 
> should add to our list of contacts that we send out emails to about the 
> program early in the new year, or if you have a group that you think would be 
> a good opportunity for GSoC Administrators to give a talk about GSoC please 
> email us at gsoc-supp...@google.com with their details (email and contact 
> person if you have one available).
>
>
> See you at FOSDEM!
>
> As Chris mentioned in the GSoC 22 Mentor Summit a couple of weeks ago, our 
> team is very excited to attend FOSDEM in Brussels in 2023. We will send more 
> details in January but we are in the early stages of planning a GSoC Meetup 
> for Saturday night during FOSDEM as we have done in previous years. Looking 
> forward to seeing many of you in Brussels in February!
>
>
> GSoC Videos
>
> We have been busy working with our mentors and GSoC contributors to create 
> new GSoC videos as they are a popular medium for new folks to learn about 
> GSoC.
>
> A HUGE thank you to our mentors that helped with the new ‘Introduction to 
> Google Summer of Code’ video (Adrian, Benjamin, Ann, Rāzvan,  Meenakshi, 
> Srishti and Gabriel). And thanks to our mentors and org admins that created 
> 25 GSoC Org videos helping interested participants understand more about the 
> many types of projects available in GSoC. And finally a huge thank you to the 
> mentors and org admins that have volunteered to be a part of our Community 
> Talk series - the 2nd one is November 15th.
>
>
> GSoC 2022 Wrap Up Coming in December
>
> In early December, after the 2022 program has officially ended, we will send 
> out notes and themes we have collected from all of the mentor and GSoC 
> contributor evaluations for 2022 to this list.
>
> Thank you all for GSoC 2022, we look forward to our 19th year in 2023!
>
> Best,
>
> Stephanie, Romina and Perry
>
>
> --
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Capitalization Handling

[Daniel Swanson]

All the relevant changes should be listed on the wiki pages. It's
mostly about which things in modes.xml do or do not have -w. The
exception is rtx-proc, which should probably have -w, but doesn't
support it yet (though if you have -w on everything else it will
probably be fine to begin with).

Daniel

On Thu, Dec 29, 2022 at 9:03 PM Jonathan Washington
 wrote:
>
> Thanks for sharing this great news, Daniel!
>
> Is there anything special that needs to be done to leverage this new
> approach to capitalisation in new pairs created using apertium-init?
>
> --
> Jonathan
>
> 27 dek 2022, Ç.a. tarixində 10:33 tarixində Daniel Swanson
>  yazdı:
> >
> > Greetings Apertiumers!
> >
> > For anyone testing this, I've now also added -w/--dictionary-case to
> > apertium-{transfer,interchunk,postchunk} which makes the
> > capitalization instructions simply do nothing so we don't have two
> > conflicting sets of rules trying to solve the same problem in opposite
> > ways.
> >
> > Daniel
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 6:47 AM Marc Riera Irigoyen
> >  wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks for the great work! I'll make sure to test it with 
> > > apertium-eng-cat, which has generation errors due to capitalization.
> > >
> > > Happy holidays!
> > >
> > > Marc Riera
> > >
> > >
> > > Missatge de Hèctor Alòs i Font  del dia ds., 24 de 
> > > des. 2022 a les 14:12:
> > >>
> > >> Looks very good, Daniel. Thanks in advance. I'll try to test in the next 
> > >> days in the pairs I maintain.
> > >> Merry Christmas/Hanukkah/New Year/*.
> > >> Hèctor
> > >>
> > >> Missatge de Daniel Swanson  del dia dv., 23 
> > >> de des. 2022 a les 0:41:
> > >>>
> > >>> Greetings Apertiumers!
> > >>>
> > >>> I have two updates to report:
> > >>>
> > >>> First, I have rewritten the postgenerator (again), this time as part
> > >>> of apertium-separable (and so not breaking the old one, unlike last
> > >>> time), and in such a way that postgenerator rules can both match on
> > >>> lemma and tags in addition to surface forms and iteratively apply to
> > >>> their own output.
> > >>>
> > >>> This is available as part of apertium-separable 0.7.0 and is
> > >>> documented at https://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/Postgenerator
> > >>>
> > >>> Second, I just added a pair of modules which move capitalization
> > >>> information into word-bound blanks at the beginning of the pipeline
> > >>> and then reapply them according to LRX-like rules at the end of the
> > >>> pipeline, allowing all intermediate modules to operate solely on
> > >>> dictionary case.
> > >>>
> > >>> This should be available after the next nightly build (i.e. tomorrow)
> > >>> in apertium 3.9.0, and is documented at
> > >>> https://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/Capitalization_restoration
> > >>>
> > >>> If anyone has questions or would like help trying this out for a
> > >>> language pair or if I missed something in the documentation, let me
> > >>> know.
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks to Kevin Unhammer and Marc Riera for helping me figure out what
> > >>> the design of the capitalization module should be.
> > >>>
> > >>> Merry Christmas,
> > >>> Daniel
> > >>>
> > >>> P.S. To anyone not interested in either of these developments: your
> > >>> Christmas gift is that I accidentally made lexical selection quite a
> > >>> bit faster while I was working on these.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> ___
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> > >>> Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net
> > >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
> > >>
> > >> ___
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> > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
> > >
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> >
> >
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Old Catalan morphological analyser

[Daniel Swanson]

Is this what you're looking for?

https://sourceforge.net/p/apertium/svn/HEAD/tree/incubator/apertium-oldca-XX/

Daniel

On Wed, Dec 28, 2022 at 11:27 AM Mikel L. Forcada  wrote:
>
> Dear Apertiumers,
>
> I have searched but I haven't been able to recover the Apertium
> dictionary for old Catalan, which IIRC, was ported to Apertium format
> from the old InterNOSTRUM format. Does anyone know where I can find it?
> I've searched SourceForge too.
>
> Thanks a million!
>
> MIkel
>
>
> --
> Mikel L. Forcada
> Dept. de Llenguatges i Sistemes Informàtics
> Edifici Politècnica IV,
> Universitat d'Alacant
> E-03690 Sant Vicent del Raspeig (Spain)
>
> Phone: +34 96 590 9776
> m...@dlsi.ua.es
>
>
>
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[Apertium-stuff] apertium-lint: A Linter for Apertium Files

[Daniel Swanson]

Greetings Apertiumers!

I have yet another announcement for you all.

Tino Didriksen and I have at long last vanquished one of the Python
package managers (actually a messy amalgamation of 2 of them, but it's
best not to dwell on that point) to bring you apertium-lint!

To install apertium-lint:
pip3 install apertium-lint

To run apertium-lint:
apertium-lint

This will analyze all Apertium files in the current directory and
produce output such as the following (abbreviated from the output on
apertium-kir):

/home/daniel/apertium/apertium-data/apertium-kir $ apertium-lint
./modes.xml
Error (install-deps) on line 8: Debug modes using files in .deps/
should not be installed.
./paper/paper.tex
Warning (unnorm) on line 113: Line contains non-normalized characters.
./apertium-kir.kir.rlx
Warning (unuse-set) on line 23: Set Pron-Pers defined but not used.
Error (redef-set) on line 63: Redefinition of set Pl.
Errors: 10 Warnings: 11 Suggestions: 0 Nitpicks: 0

I hope its analysis proves useful (the check that identifies which
lines have non-breaking spaces has already helped me a few times) and
I'm happy to add more things for it to check.

Daniel


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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Capitalization Handling

[Daniel Swanson]

Greetings Apertiumers!

For anyone testing this, I've now also added -w/--dictionary-case to
apertium-{transfer,interchunk,postchunk} which makes the
capitalization instructions simply do nothing so we don't have two
conflicting sets of rules trying to solve the same problem in opposite
ways.

Daniel

On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 6:47 AM Marc Riera Irigoyen
 wrote:
>
> Thanks for the great work! I'll make sure to test it with apertium-eng-cat, 
> which has generation errors due to capitalization.
>
> Happy holidays!
>
> Marc Riera
>
>
> Missatge de Hèctor Alòs i Font  del dia ds., 24 de des. 
> 2022 a les 14:12:
>>
>> Looks very good, Daniel. Thanks in advance. I'll try to test in the next 
>> days in the pairs I maintain.
>> Merry Christmas/Hanukkah/New Year/*.
>> Hèctor
>>
>> Missatge de Daniel Swanson  del dia dv., 23 de 
>> des. 2022 a les 0:41:
>>>
>>> Greetings Apertiumers!
>>>
>>> I have two updates to report:
>>>
>>> First, I have rewritten the postgenerator (again), this time as part
>>> of apertium-separable (and so not breaking the old one, unlike last
>>> time), and in such a way that postgenerator rules can both match on
>>> lemma and tags in addition to surface forms and iteratively apply to
>>> their own output.
>>>
>>> This is available as part of apertium-separable 0.7.0 and is
>>> documented at https://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/Postgenerator
>>>
>>> Second, I just added a pair of modules which move capitalization
>>> information into word-bound blanks at the beginning of the pipeline
>>> and then reapply them according to LRX-like rules at the end of the
>>> pipeline, allowing all intermediate modules to operate solely on
>>> dictionary case.
>>>
>>> This should be available after the next nightly build (i.e. tomorrow)
>>> in apertium 3.9.0, and is documented at
>>> https://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/Capitalization_restoration
>>>
>>> If anyone has questions or would like help trying this out for a
>>> language pair or if I missed something in the documentation, let me
>>> know.
>>>
>>> Thanks to Kevin Unhammer and Marc Riera for helping me figure out what
>>> the design of the capitalization module should be.
>>>
>>> Merry Christmas,
>>> Daniel
>>>
>>> P.S. To anyone not interested in either of these developments: your
>>> Christmas gift is that I accidentally made lexical selection quite a
>>> bit faster while I was working on these.
>>>
>>>
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>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
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[Apertium-stuff] Capitalization Handling

[Daniel Swanson]

Greetings Apertiumers!

I have two updates to report:

First, I have rewritten the postgenerator (again), this time as part
of apertium-separable (and so not breaking the old one, unlike last
time), and in such a way that postgenerator rules can both match on
lemma and tags in addition to surface forms and iteratively apply to
their own output.

This is available as part of apertium-separable 0.7.0 and is
documented at https://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/Postgenerator

Second, I just added a pair of modules which move capitalization
information into word-bound blanks at the beginning of the pipeline
and then reapply them according to LRX-like rules at the end of the
pipeline, allowing all intermediate modules to operate solely on
dictionary case.

This should be available after the next nightly build (i.e. tomorrow)
in apertium 3.9.0, and is documented at
https://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/Capitalization_restoration

If anyone has questions or would like help trying this out for a
language pair or if I missed something in the documentation, let me
know.

Thanks to Kevin Unhammer and Marc Riera for helping me figure out what
the design of the capitalization module should be.

Merry Christmas,
Daniel

P.S. To anyone not interested in either of these developments: your
Christmas gift is that I accidentally made lexical selection quite a
bit faster while I was working on these.


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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Bootstrapping a new language pair: lttoolbox version condition

[Daniel Swanson]

The issue is that by default apertium-init assumes that both modules have a
post-generator, but Hindi doesn't. Everything should be correct if you
re-initialize the directory but add the option --no-pgen2.

Daniel

On Sun, Aug 14, 2022 at 8:41 AM Anil Singh  wrote:

> I did that. Bootstrapping the language module worked, that is, it gave no
> error.
>
> However, when I try to bootstrap the pair:
>
>  ./autogen.sh --with-lang1=../apertium-mai --with-lang2=../apertium-hin
>
>
> I get errors:
>
> cp ../apertium-hin/hin.autogen.bin mai-hin.autogen.bin
>> make: *** No rule to make target '../apertium-hin/hin.autopgen.bin',
>> needed by 'mai-hin.autopgen.bin'.  Stop.
>> make: *** Waiting for unfinished jobs
>
>
> Any clue as to what could be wrong?
>
> Regards,
>
> Anil Kumar Singh
>
> On Sat, Aug 13, 2022 at 9:35 PM Anil Singh  wrote:
>
>> Thanks, I'll check it out.
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 13, 2022 at 9:15 PM Tino Didriksen 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The most likely cause is that you don't have the tools from our nightly
>>> repository:
>>>
>>> https://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/Install_Apertium_core_using_packaging#Debian-based
>>>
>>> So I recommend running:
>>> $ curl -sS https://apertium.projectjj.com/apt/install-nightly.sh | sudo
>>> bash
>>> $ sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
>>> $ sudo apt-get install apertium-all-dev
>>>
>>> -- Tino Didriksen
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, 13 Aug 2022 at 15:48, Anil Singh  wrote:
>>>
 HI,

 I am trying to bootstrap a new language pair. One of them is available
 via apertium-get, but the other is not. So I tried using apertium-init.py.
 On running it, it seems to partially succeed, but I get an error regarding
 the version of lttoolbox.

 Trying to install lttoolbox from source code from GitHub also causes an
 error. However, I am able to build (skipping tests) lttoolbox-java and it
 seems to be working. This, I understand, is a complete port of both
 apertium and lttoolbox.

 Can I use lttoolbox-java.jar to initialize a new language? If so, how?
 Or is there a way to fix the error with version of lttoolbox:

 Requested 'lttoolbox >= 3.6.9' but version of lttoolbox is 3.6.6
>

 I am working on Ubuntu WSL on Windows 10.

 Regards,

 Anil Kumar Singh

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[Apertium-stuff] New Paradigm Generation Tool

[Daniel Swanson]

Greetings Apertiumers!

I have just created a new program in lttoolbox which generates paradigms.
It is called lt-paradigm and it is similar to lt-expand and hfst-expand
except that it takes a pattern as input and only lists paths matching that
pattern.

For example, here is it generating all forms of the noun σαρξ in Greek:

echo 'σαρξ<*>' | lt-paradigm grc.autogen.bin
σαρξ:σαρξί
σαρξ:σαρξίν
σαρξ:σαρξὶ
σαρξ:σαρξὶν
σαρξ:σαρκός
σαρξ:σαρκί
σαρξ:σαρκὶ
σαρξ:σαρκὸς
σαρξ:σαρκῶν
σαρξ:σαρκσί
σαρξ:σαρκσίν
σαρξ:σαρκσὶ
σαρξ:σαρκσὶν
σαρξ:σάρξ
σαρξ:σάρξ
σαρξ:σάρκα
σαρξ:σάρκς
σαρξ:σάρκς
σαρξ:σάρκας
σαρξ:σάρκες
σαρξ:σάρκες
σαρξ:σὰρκς
σαρξ:σὰρκς
σαρξ:σὰρξ
σαρξ:σὰρξ

In the input patterns, <*> matches any tag and * matches any letter.

I propose adding this to monolingual modes like so:

  

  

  

  

In which case the above command becomes
echo 'σαρξ<*>' | apertium -f none -d . grc-paradigm

Bug reports, feature requests, and maybe even bikeshedding are welcome as
usual.

Daniel
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Apertium PMC Election: Census & Candidates

[Daniel Swanson]

I'd be willing to do election admin again.

Daniel

On Tue, Apr 19, 2022 at 9:06 AM Tanmai Khanna 
wrote:

> Hi,
> I'd like to apply to be part of the PMC again. It's been great to see the
> management side of things with Apertium and would really love to see
> through our plan to create a formal organisation.
>
> Regards,
> Tanmai Khanna
>
> On Tue, Apr 19, 2022, 16:51 Tino Didriksen  wrote:
>
>> G'day everyone,
>>
>> It is almost time to vote for the
>> https://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/Project_Management_Committee again, but
>> first some introductory motions, namely updating the census and calling for
>> candidates.
>>
>> Actual election will start in a week, barring complications.
>>
>> === Census:
>> See https://github.com/apertium/elections/blob/main/census.tsv
>>
>> If you are not on the census list and want to be, or we have the wrong
>> email for you, or you wish to be removed from the census, let us know or
>> submit a PR for the change.
>>
>> === Candidates:
>> Do you want to be a PMC member? Speak up!
>>
>> Do you want to be the Apertium President? Likewise, speak up!
>>
>> Or amend the https://github.com/apertium/elections repo.
>>
>> === The election itself:
>> We will likely use https://www.belenios.org/ to run the election itself,
>> and while that doesn't require as much trust in the election runners, it'd
>> still be nice if someone who isn't planning on running for PMC or President
>> will want to be one of the admins for the election. Any volunteers?
>>
>> -- Tino Didriksen
>>
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[Apertium-stuff] Shared Dictionary Components (For Even Faster Compilation)

[Daniel Swanson]

Greetings Apertiumers!

It occurred to me recently that one of the slowest parts of dictionaries to
compile (regular expressions) tends to overlap the parts that are most
often similar across different languages (email addresses, dates, numbers),
so I added a tool for merging binary files and have started gathering
shareable entries into https://github.com/apertium/apertium-shared

It currently has web stuff (emails, urls, filenames, etc - copied from
apertium-cat) and punctuation. If you want to try it out, you can add it to
a language with

In configure.ac:

PKG_CHECK_MODULES(APERTIUM_SHARED, apertium-shared >= 0.0.1)
PKG_CHECK_VAR([SHARESRC], [apertium-shared], [srcdir])

In Makefile.am:

$(LANG1).automorf.bin: .deps/$(LANG1).automorf.bin
$(SHARESRC)/shared-mono-lr.bin
lt-append -k $^ $@

And rename existing $(LANG1).automorf.bin to .deps/$(LANG1).automorf.bin
and similarly for autogen.bin and shared-mono-rl.bin.

Let me know if you have any questions or suggestions (I'll probably add
dates and a bidix component, I just haven't gotten there yet).

Daniel
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] translation error

[Daniel Swanson]

Here's what I get running your examples through the current version of
apertium-eng-ita:

$ echo 'Recommendations for the reporting and processing tool' | apertium
-d . eng-ita
Raccomandazioni per il riportare e processando utensile
$ echo 'Cross-wiki violations of the UCoC at the administrative level will
be handled by U4C' | apertium -d . eng-ita
Croce-*wiki violazioni dell'*UCoC nella volontà di livello amministrativa
essere manipolato per *U4C

How are you running Apertium and do you have the most recent version of the
English-Italian package?

Daniel

On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 1:09 PM Silvia Lombardini via Apertium-stuff <
apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

> Here we have "partorisca"!
>
>
> Il giovedì 3 marzo 2022, 15:06:54 CET, Daniel Swanson <
> awesomeevildu...@gmail.com> ha scritto:
>
>
> Hi Silvia,
>
> Could you provide a sentence where this happens so we can more effectively
> diagnose the problem?
>
> Daniel
>
> On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 6:42 AM Silvia Lombardini via Apertium-stuff <
> apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:
>
> I often noticed that "for" is translated in Italian with "partorisca".
> This makes no sense. Partorisca is a verb (partorire), which means to give
> birth. For is simply "per".
> Best greetings
> Silvia L.
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] translation error

[Daniel Swanson]

Hi Silvia,

Could you provide a sentence where this happens so we can more effectively
diagnose the problem?

Daniel

On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 6:42 AM Silvia Lombardini via Apertium-stuff <
apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

> I often noticed that "for" is translated in Italian with "partorisca".
> This makes no sense. Partorisca is a verb (partorire), which means to give
> birth. For is simply "per".
> Best greetings
> Silvia L.
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Automatically change first-person to third-person

[Daniel Swanson]

The link in that earlier email is dead, so I can't see what the original
script was doing, but based on the name it might have just been replacing
 with , in which case, if you still have that script, you could
just edit it to replace  with .

Daniel

On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at 6:20 AM Per Tunedal  wrote:

> HI again,
> OOps, I happened to take the wrong book from the book shelf. I should have
> taken one of those a bit more to the left :-(
> The examples are from the works of an other author, Sun Axelsson, not
> Majgull Axelsson.
> But the question is still valid. And you could still make Majgull happy on
> her anniversary.
> Yours,
> Per Tunedal
>
> --
>   Vänligen
>   Per Tunedal
>
> On Mon, Feb 14, 2022, at 11:11, Per Tunedal wrote:
> > Hi,
> > Today is the anniversary of the Swedish author Majgull Axelsson. I've
> > just read an interview with her in my morning paper, Dagens Nyheter.
> > She tells about the work with a new novel. She has just decided to
> > change the narrator perspective from first-person to third-person
> > (singular) and wish some help:
> > "Jag önskar mig innerligt i fördelsedagspresent, ett datorprogram som
> > kan ändra tempus och berättarperspektiv väldigt enkelt, skämtar hon."
> >
> > My translation:
> > "I fervently wish me a computer program that is able to change the
> > tense and the narrative perspective very easy, she says with a laugh."
> >
> > I've in the past already asked for changing the tense, so this is
> > doable.
> >
> https://sourceforge.net/p/apertium/mailman/apertium-stuff/thread/1519736195.3991384.1284992528.191E054E%40webmail.messagingengine.com/#msg36238830
> >
> > She would like to change the perpecive as well, something like:
> >
> > Example 1:
> > "Jag länktade hem och lyfte glaset med en sliskig mintlikör till
> > munnen. Jag svalde klunk efter klunk och tog klumparna jag svalde för
> > sockeravlagringar. Tills jag såg att det var flugor."
> > (Her book "Honungsvargar", page 19)
> >
> > To:
> > Hon länktade hem och lyfte glaset med en sliskig mintlikör till munnen.
> > Hon svalde klunk efter klunk och tog klumparna hon svalde för
> > sockeravlagringar. Tills hon såg att det var flugor. ... " (Narrator
> > changed from 1:st person to third person)
> >
> > or:
> >
> > Hon länktar hem och lyfter glaset med en sliskig mintlikör till munnen.
> > Hon sväljer klunk efter klunk och tar klumparna hon sväljer för
> > sockeravlagringar. Tills hon ser att det är flugor. ... " (Narrator
> > changed from 1:st person to third person and past tens to present tense)
> >
> >
> > Example 2:
> > "Mig, skrev han, hade han aldrig älskat."
> > ("Honungsvargar", page 23)
> >
> > To:
> > "Henne, skrev han, hade han aldrig älskat." (Narrator changed from 1:st
> > person to third person)
> >
> > Maybe the Apertium community could make her wish true?
> >
> > Yours,
> > Per Tunedal
> >
> > BTW A more fundamental change of narrative perspective would be harder.
> > Like changing narrator from the woman to the man in this text. I don't
> > think it's possible.
> >
> > The first example would become something like:
> > "Han såg henne lyfta glaset med den sliskiga minlikören till munnen.
> > Hon svalde klunk efter klunk. Plötsligt stelnade hon till och stirrade
> > ned i glaset. 'Flugor', skrek hon."
> >
> >
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] TM not working for English-Santali pair

[Daniel Swanson]

You need to tell it to look for files in the right directory with -d .

This worked for me:

$ echo "Welcome to Wikipedia. Hello" | apertium -d . -m eng-sat.tmx -o
eng-sat eng-sat
ᱣᱤᱠᱤᱯᱤᱰᱤᱭᱟ ᱨᱮ ᱥᱟᱹᱜᱩᱱ ᱫᱟᱨᱟᱢ. *Hello


On Sun, Jan 2, 2022 at 6:16 AM Prasanta Hembram <
prasantahembram...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi, I was testing with eng-sat.tmx (
> https://github.com/Prasanta-Hembram/apertium-eng-sat/blob/master/eng-sat.tmx)
> a small one though but it is not working for some reason. I have followed
> https://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/Translation_memory tutorial by replacing
> all the language code and tried to run as follows:
>
> My Input:
>
> *echo Welcome to Wikipedia. Hello|apertium eng-sat -m eng-sat.tmx*
>
> I got the output:
>
>
> *Error: Cannot compile TM 'eng-sat.tmx'/usr/bin/apertium: line 507: echo
> hint: use -o parameter: command not found*
>
>
> After that is have followed this solution but also no luck
> https://sourceforge.net/p/apertium/mailman/apertium-stuff/thread/56F27D25.7050307%40phone-m.com/#msg34959606
> according to them :
>
> by giving input as : *echo Welcome to Wikipedia. Hello|apertium eng-sat
> -m eng-sat.tmx -o eng-sat *would solve the problem but instead it gave
> output:
>
>
>
>
> *Error: Mode eng-sat does not exist. Try one of:  eng-spa  spa-eng
> spa-eng_US*
>
> How to make my eng-sat TMX file work with Apertium ?
>
> Thanks
> with best regards
> Prasanta Hembram
>
>
>
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Left elisions: recognition and blanks

[Daniel Swanson]

Would putting the first element in  or the
second element in  rather than  work? Then one of the elements is distinct in
combination from what it is on its own, making it postblank or
preblank will insert an extra space after or before, respectively.

Daniel

On Sun, Jan 2, 2022 at 5:01 AM Hèctor Alòs i Font  wrote:
>
> In Occitan, in many cases the spelling rules require the elision of the 
> beginning of pronouns and determiners, e.g. "que o > que'u". There are also 
> numerous cases of fusions, e.g. `de lo > del` or `de lo > deu` or `de lo > 
> deth` depending on the variety of Occitan. If we add to this the great 
> (sub)dialectal variety of Occitan, the result is almost a combinatorial 
> explosion. At present, we have hundreds of lines in the Occitan monodix to 
> try to deal with them, but it is not enough.
>
> One of the embarrassing problems with this is the issue I have had this 
> morning: `çò que’u`. `çò que` is one of the many forms of a given relative 
> pronoun (but it can be also analysed as the pronoun `çò` followed by the word 
> `que` that may be here at least a kind of adverb). The issue is that we don't 
> have a definition in the Occitan monodix for `çò que’u` as `çò que` + `u` 
> (nor as `çò` + `que` + `u`), using  (it is not in the hundreds we have). 
> The result is that the translation has been done almost correctly, but the 
> translations of `çò que` and `u` have been put together without a blank, 
> since there is not a blank in the input. That's why we have to define so many 
> combinations using ``:
>
> ```
> $ echo "00192. Lo privilègi de l’editorialista qu’es de poder escríver **çò 
> que’u** passa peu cap." | apertium -d . oci_gascon-fra
> 00192. Le privilège de l'éditorialiste  est de pouvoir écrire **ce quela**  
> passe pour la tête.
> ```
>
> Does anyone have any ideas on how not to solve this "the hard way" (as we 
> have done so far)?
>
> Hèctor
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Left elisions: post-generation

[Daniel Swanson]

Unhammer and I have made efforts in this direction at
https://github.com/apertium/lttoolbox/issues/42, but it looks like we
never finished getting it working.

A possible, but probably slightly crazy, approach would be to use HFST
to insert  before every final vowel in the monodix.

Daniel

On Sun, Jan 2, 2022 at 5:09 AM Hèctor Alòs i Font  wrote:
>
> The question of elisions on the left involves a problem specular to that of 
> recognition, which I discussed in my last message: that of post-generation.
>
> Currently we have:
>
> déjà tu me dis > ja me dises
>
> But it should be:
>
> déjà tu me dis > ja'm dises
>
> For any word ending in a vowel the pronoun *me* has to be converted into *'m* 
> and immediately attached to the previous word without any blank.
>
> I don't know of any way to deal with this in postgeneration. Does anyone have 
> an idea?
>
> Hèctor
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Ôdp: Questions about lexical selection

[Daniel Swanson]

(1C NOUN) would match ^a/b/c$ or ^a/b$ but it would not match
^a/b/c$ - you can read it as "if the next word can only be a
noun".

On Tue, Dec 21, 2021 at 10:10 AM Grzegorz Kulik  wrote:
>
> Thank you both for the suggestions. I never considered CG because it looked 
> complicated but I actually got a grip of it right away. I went with:
>
> REMOVE NOUN IF (0 DET) (0 NOUN) (1 (n mp));
>
> and it works perfectly. It did not work with 1C there. I looked up the C 
> symbol in the documentation and it says "Every reading this position must 
> match the pattern (normally only 1 has to)". I don't know what this sentence 
> means. Every time this position is read, it must match the pattern? Can I 
> find any elaboration on this anywhere? I checked 
> http://beta.visl.sdu.dk/cg3/single/ but can't seem to find anything about it 
> there.
>
> Thank you!
> Greg
>
> We wtorek, 21 gru 2021 ô godzinie 09:25, Hèctor Alòs i Font 
> (hectora...@gmail.com) pisze:
>
>
>
> Missatge de Daniel Swanson  del dia dt., 21 de 
> des. 2021 a les 7:57:
>
> Hi Greg,
>
> The file where you want to write rules for this is
> https://github.com/apertium/apertium-pol/blob/master/apertium-pol.pol.rlx
>
> If you want something like "tacy is  before ", you could get that with
>
> SELECT DET IF (0 DET) (0 NOUN) (1 NOUN) ;
>
>
> The problem with this rule is that (1 NOUN) is not necessarily a noun, but 
> something that can be analysed as a noun at the moment this rule is executed. 
> Similarly, the 0 word may be correctly analysed as something else, like an 
> adjective. So, a more cautious rule can be, for instance:
>
> REMOVE NOUN IF (0 DET) (0 NOUN) (1C NOUN) ;
>
> The problem with this alternative variant of the rule is that it matches less 
> often than the first one. It may not solve cases Daniel's version solve, 
> although it probably makes less wrong decisions. Your knowledge of the 
> language, and testing on corpus, should help you decide what is better, or 
> maybe you will choose something else in the middle. Tuning can be done adding 
> a few rules, previous to the general one, for often words/cases.
>
> Hèctor
>
>
>
> Daniel
>
> On Mon, Dec 20, 2021 at 1:40 PM Grzegorz Kulik  
> wrote:
> >
> > Hello all,
> >
> > I haven't contacted you for some time, I hope you are all well. I developed 
> > the pol-szl pair and although the translation is quite reasonable, I 
> > decided to make it better by improving the lexical selection. I've been 
> > reading the documentation and managed to write several rules for forms that 
> > need disambiguation and are the same parts of speech. However, I cannot 
> > find any information anywhere about what to do if there is a form that can 
> > mean two completely different things. Example in Polish:
> >
> > tacy (such) = taki
> > tacy (of a tablet) = 
> > taca/taca/taca
> >
> > The first meaning is obviously much more frequent but the translator 
> > chooses the second one, which is less than desirable.
> >
> > What can I do to remedy this? Can I write rules for that manually? Should I 
> > train the tagger? If so, what method would be the best? There's multiple 
> > training methods and I don't know which one to choose for my pair. Could 
> > you recommend me the best approach?
> >
> > Thank you in advance
> > Greg
> > ___
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>
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Questions about lexical selection

[Daniel Swanson]

Hi Greg,

The file where you want to write rules for this is
https://github.com/apertium/apertium-pol/blob/master/apertium-pol.pol.rlx

If you want something like "tacy is  before ", you could get that with

SELECT DET IF (0 DET) (0 NOUN) (1 NOUN) ;

Daniel

On Mon, Dec 20, 2021 at 1:40 PM Grzegorz Kulik  wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
> I haven't contacted you for some time, I hope you are all well. I developed 
> the pol-szl pair and although the translation is quite reasonable, I decided 
> to make it better by improving the lexical selection. I've been reading the 
> documentation and managed to write several rules for forms that need 
> disambiguation and are the same parts of speech. However, I cannot find any 
> information anywhere about what to do if there is a form that can mean two 
> completely different things. Example in Polish:
>
> tacy (such) = taki
> tacy (of a tablet) = 
> taca/taca/taca
>
> The first meaning is obviously much more frequent but the translator chooses 
> the second one, which is less than desirable.
>
> What can I do to remedy this? Can I write rules for that manually? Should I 
> train the tagger? If so, what method would be the best? There's multiple 
> training methods and I don't know which one to choose for my pair. Could you 
> recommend me the best approach?
>
> Thank you in advance
> Greg
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Thoughts on UDPipe, Apertium modules and translation system for Interslavic

[Daniel Swanson]

... and right after sending my previous email I decided that creating
such a prototype was a more fun use of my flight home than
treebanking, so here's what I came up with:
https://github.com/mr-martian/UD-transfer

It probably needs another couple hours of work before it'll actually
do anything, but I should be able to manage that pretty soon (the
hardest part of any project is starting).

Daniel

On Thu, Dec 16, 2021 at 7:17 PM Daniel Swanson
 wrote:
>
> Greetings Apertiumers!
>
> Figuring out how to incorporate UD parsers into Apertium pipelines is
> something that's been on my todo list for a while, but with the
> unfortunate property that it keeps getting sidelined by projects that
> have deadlines.
>
> With regards to your specific issue, here are the options I can think of:
>
> 1. apertium-transfer / chunking
> The chunker can pretty much only process adjacent words. You can
> encode dependency labels to some extent (e.g.
> ^green/green<@amod>$), and the rules can refer to those
> tags, but I don't think there's any way to access the actual relations
> that isn't incredibly hacky and fragile.
>
> 2. apertium-recursive
> This was created precisely because chunking can't handle long distance
> relationships, but to actually use it, you'd end up somehow encoding
> and then re-parsing the tree structure which is still fairly fragile
> while also probably being an enormous waste of energy.
>
> 3. Constraint Grammar
> VISL CG-3 can manipulate dependency trees and writing agreement rules
> would be fairly straightforward, though you'd have to write them from
> scratch rather than copying from existing sources.
>
> 4. Bug me to make a real solution
> Prototyping a pipeline module to do pretty much exactly what you're
> talking about is nominally fairly high on my todo list, and if someone
> is actually waiting for it there's a decent amount of hope that I'll
> actually start it rather than some other project.
>
> If your main concern is agreement, 3 strikes me as a pretty good
> option. On the other hand, if you actually need to modify the tree
> structure, 3 might get complicated in which case I'd recommend 4.
>
> Daniel
>
> On Thu, Dec 16, 2021 at 5:20 PM Виктор Булатов  wrote:
> >
> > Hi everyone. The Interslavic language is a constructed language that is 
> > created in such a way that people from Slavic countries are able to 
> > understand most of it without any prior education. It has a Wikipedia page 
> > and everything (maybe we even will have an ISO-639-3 code "ISV" in the 
> > future, fingers crossed!).
> >
> > I'm looking into developing some sort of MT system for Interslavic (mainly 
> > the "Some Natural Slavic Language -> Interslavic" direction). I've managed 
> > to cobble a prototype with Russian UDPipe and ISV morphological data/rules 
> > before finding out about Apertium (and you guys seem interesting).
> >
> > The thing is, Russian and Czech are probably the richest Slavic languages 
> > in terms of NLP resources. Apertium obviously isn't going to beat a 
> > dependency parser that was trained on >1M of labeled sentences. So, I don't 
> > really need any of the earlier stages of the Apertium pipeline. However, 
> > the chunking and multi-word-expression modules seem promising, especially 
> > given that I probably could re-use already existing rules (that are written 
> > for different Slavic languages, but it doesn't matter).
> >
> > So, my question is: is it possible to use the chunking module in isolation? 
> > Preferably in a way that allows manipulation of UDPipe's dependency trees? 
> > For example, to ensure gender agreement between a noun and attached 
> > adjectives.
> >
> > I would be happy to hear any other advice!
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Thoughts on UDPipe, Apertium modules and translation system for Interslavic

[Daniel Swanson]

Greetings Apertiumers!

Figuring out how to incorporate UD parsers into Apertium pipelines is
something that's been on my todo list for a while, but with the
unfortunate property that it keeps getting sidelined by projects that
have deadlines.

With regards to your specific issue, here are the options I can think of:

1. apertium-transfer / chunking
The chunker can pretty much only process adjacent words. You can
encode dependency labels to some extent (e.g.
^green/green<@amod>$), and the rules can refer to those
tags, but I don't think there's any way to access the actual relations
that isn't incredibly hacky and fragile.

2. apertium-recursive
This was created precisely because chunking can't handle long distance
relationships, but to actually use it, you'd end up somehow encoding
and then re-parsing the tree structure which is still fairly fragile
while also probably being an enormous waste of energy.

3. Constraint Grammar
VISL CG-3 can manipulate dependency trees and writing agreement rules
would be fairly straightforward, though you'd have to write them from
scratch rather than copying from existing sources.

4. Bug me to make a real solution
Prototyping a pipeline module to do pretty much exactly what you're
talking about is nominally fairly high on my todo list, and if someone
is actually waiting for it there's a decent amount of hope that I'll
actually start it rather than some other project.

If your main concern is agreement, 3 strikes me as a pretty good
option. On the other hand, if you actually need to modify the tree
structure, 3 might get complicated in which case I'd recommend 4.

Daniel

On Thu, Dec 16, 2021 at 5:20 PM Виктор Булатов  wrote:
>
> Hi everyone. The Interslavic language is a constructed language that is 
> created in such a way that people from Slavic countries are able to 
> understand most of it without any prior education. It has a Wikipedia page 
> and everything (maybe we even will have an ISO-639-3 code "ISV" in the 
> future, fingers crossed!).
>
> I'm looking into developing some sort of MT system for Interslavic (mainly 
> the "Some Natural Slavic Language -> Interslavic" direction). I've managed to 
> cobble a prototype with Russian UDPipe and ISV morphological data/rules 
> before finding out about Apertium (and you guys seem interesting).
>
> The thing is, Russian and Czech are probably the richest Slavic languages in 
> terms of NLP resources. Apertium obviously isn't going to beat a dependency 
> parser that was trained on >1M of labeled sentences. So, I don't really need 
> any of the earlier stages of the Apertium pipeline. However, the chunking and 
> multi-word-expression modules seem promising, especially given that I 
> probably could re-use already existing rules (that are written for different 
> Slavic languages, but it doesn't matter).
>
> So, my question is: is it possible to use the chunking module in isolation? 
> Preferably in a way that allows manipulation of UDPipe's dependency trees? 
> For example, to ensure gender agreement between a noun and attached 
> adjectives.
>
> I would be happy to hear any other advice!
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Question about regtest

[Daniel Swanson]

Hi Xavi,

[/option] is a delimiter separating multiple golds, but it was simpler
for some of the code to treat it as a terminator, which would be the
reason for that particular diff.

Daniel

On Fri, Dec 10, 2021 at 2:03 PM Xavi Ivars  wrote:
>
> Hi Daniel, Tino,
>
> I've been running apertium-regtest on apertium-spa-cat, and there are a ton 
> of changes, I think created after we added preferences to the langpair.
>
> Now, there are a lot of differences on *-gold.txt files, that look like this:
>
> [-DumAiorwCM6]
> -Julio González i Jesús Marzo. Juli Cèsar.
> +Julio González i Jesús Marzo. Juli Cèsar. [/option]
> [/-DumAiorwCM6]
>
>
> But I have no idea if that is related or not, and with the # of changes that 
> exist (web UI is showing 27 pages), it's quite hard to really understand 
> what's going on
>
> Any help?
>
>
> --
> < Xavi Ivars >
> < http://xavi.ivars.me >
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Need help setting up the Apertium code base on macOS

[Daniel Swanson]

I should also mention that if you still run into problems, you'll
probably get faster help by joining the IRC chat:
https://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/IRC

On Thu, Dec 2, 2021 at 1:02 AM Daniel Swanson
 wrote:
>
> Hi Faiz,
>
> As the message at the top of that page says, you likely actually want
> this page: https://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/Apertium_on_Mac_OS_X
>
> Based on that, it looks like you want the following:
>
> # install a couple more dependencies
> sudo port install icu cmake boost gperftools
> # install Apertium
> curl https://apertium.projectjj.com/osx/install-nightly.sh | sudo bash
> # download English-Hindi
> apertium-get eng-hin
>
> Hope that helps,
> Daniel
>
> On Thu, Dec 2, 2021 at 12:54 AM mohd. faiz  wrote:
> >
> > Hi there,
> > I am Faiz Alam, a sophomore student of Maharaja Surajmal Institute of 
> > Technology(MSIT, New Delhi, India) majoring in Computer Science. I am well 
> > versed with Python and machine learning along with web technologies like 
> > HTML, CSS, Js. I was researching Apertium for the past 1 week, I even had a 
> > meeting with one of the 2021 GSoC participants ( Anuradha Pandey). She gave 
> > me an elaborated description of what Apertium is, how rule-based machine 
> > translation is used, how Apertium is different than any other translator, 
> > etc.
> > I tried to set up the codebase on my macOS by following wiki articles, but 
> > the articles seem to be very old and haven't been updated in a while. I 
> > followed this article to fulfill the prerequisites on my machine. I 
> > followed the mentioned steps of installing Apertium using Macports with 
> > this command
> >
> > sudo port install autoconf automake expat flex \
> > gettext gperf help2man libiconv libtool \
> > libxml2 libxslt m4 ncurses p5-locale-gettext \
> > pcre perl5 pkgconfig zlib gawk subversion
> >
> >
> > but after this step, I am lost. I am not able to figure out how to proceed 
> > next. Is there any revised article which I can follow? I checked youtube 
> > too but over there videos are as old as 5 yrs.
> > It would be great if anyone can help me in setting up the codebase or 
> > provide me with a clear concise article that I can follow.
> > Thankyou
> > Warm Regards,
> > Faiz Alam
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Need help setting up the Apertium code base on macOS

[Daniel Swanson]

Hi Faiz,

As the message at the top of that page says, you likely actually want
this page: https://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/Apertium_on_Mac_OS_X

Based on that, it looks like you want the following:

# install a couple more dependencies
sudo port install icu cmake boost gperftools
# install Apertium
curl https://apertium.projectjj.com/osx/install-nightly.sh | sudo bash
# download English-Hindi
apertium-get eng-hin

Hope that helps,
Daniel

On Thu, Dec 2, 2021 at 12:54 AM mohd. faiz  wrote:
>
> Hi there,
> I am Faiz Alam, a sophomore student of Maharaja Surajmal Institute of 
> Technology(MSIT, New Delhi, India) majoring in Computer Science. I am well 
> versed with Python and machine learning along with web technologies like 
> HTML, CSS, Js. I was researching Apertium for the past 1 week, I even had a 
> meeting with one of the 2021 GSoC participants ( Anuradha Pandey). She gave 
> me an elaborated description of what Apertium is, how rule-based machine 
> translation is used, how Apertium is different than any other translator, etc.
> I tried to set up the codebase on my macOS by following wiki articles, but 
> the articles seem to be very old and haven't been updated in a while. I 
> followed this article to fulfill the prerequisites on my machine. I followed 
> the mentioned steps of installing Apertium using Macports with this command
>
> sudo port install autoconf automake expat flex \
> gettext gperf help2man libiconv libtool \
> libxml2 libxslt m4 ncurses p5-locale-gettext \
> pcre perl5 pkgconfig zlib gawk subversion
>
>
> but after this step, I am lost. I am not able to figure out how to proceed 
> next. Is there any revised article which I can follow? I checked youtube too 
> but over there videos are as old as 5 yrs.
> It would be great if anyone can help me in setting up the codebase or provide 
> me with a clear concise article that I can follow.
> Thankyou
> Warm Regards,
> Faiz Alam
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Problem with letter case in interchunk (or after)

[Daniel Swanson]

 or similar should work just fine in
postchunk. If not, that's a bug I need to look into.

You might not be able to use tags in , but I'd have to
double check that.

On Sat, Oct 9, 2021 at 4:20 PM Hèctor Alòs i Font  wrote:
>
> As far as I know, in postchunk only the name of the chunk can be seen. We 
> cannot read any tag of the header (I don't know why). So, I don't see how to 
> put a condition in interchunk for the postchunk, except, maybe, changing the 
> name of the chunk.
>
> Missatge de Daniel Swanson  del dia ds., 9 d’oct. 
> 2021 a les 22:32:
>>
>> You could set the case of the chunk pseudolemma or else append a tag
>> to it and then condition on that in postchunk.
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 9, 2021 at 3:28 PM Hèctor Alòs i Font  
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > In the interchunk stage I am adding a word, which happens to be very often 
>> > at the beginning of a sentence. So I face two issues. On the one hand, to 
>> > put an initial capital letter to the word I add, if needed, and, on the 
>> > other hand, to remove the initial capital letter from the following word, 
>> > if needed too. For the former, I can more or less figure out how to do it, 
>> > although I have my doubts. For the following word, I don't see how: in 
>> > interchunk I don't have access to the word itself, so I don't know whether 
>> > it is capitalised or not; in postchunk I only have access to the 
>> > individual words, so I lack context; and in postgeneration it doesn't seem 
>> > to be possible to change words from uppercase to lowercase.
>> >
>> > Does anyone have any suggestions?
>> >
>> > $ echo "C'est une maison." | apertium -d . fra-oci_gascon
>> > qu'Ei un ostau.
>> >
>> > Hèctor
>> > ___
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>>
>>
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Problem with letter case in interchunk (or after)

[Daniel Swanson]

You could set the case of the chunk pseudolemma or else append a tag
to it and then condition on that in postchunk.

On Sat, Oct 9, 2021 at 3:28 PM Hèctor Alòs i Font  wrote:
>
> In the interchunk stage I am adding a word, which happens to be very often at 
> the beginning of a sentence. So I face two issues. On the one hand, to put an 
> initial capital letter to the word I add, if needed, and, on the other hand, 
> to remove the initial capital letter from the following word, if needed too. 
> For the former, I can more or less figure out how to do it, although I have 
> my doubts. For the following word, I don't see how: in interchunk I don't 
> have access to the word itself, so I don't know whether it is capitalised or 
> not; in postchunk I only have access to the individual words, so I lack 
> context; and in postgeneration it doesn't seem to be possible to change words 
> from uppercase to lowercase.
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions?
>
> $ echo "C'est une maison." | apertium -d . fra-oci_gascon
> qu'Ei un ostau.
>
> Hèctor
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Mentors

[Daniel Swanson]

Hi Rohit,

The easiest way is to join IRC (https://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/IRC)
and start asking questions. Who to talk to will depend largely on what
you're interested in doing.

Daniel

On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 2:59 PM Rohit Rout  wrote:
>
> Can someone plz tell how to talk to mentors and which mentor is good?
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Regression Testing Now Operational

[Daniel Swanson]

> Cool, I've been working with some language pairs I know, I have few
> questions on cli usage and stuff:
>
> Commonly when I test things I get like:
>
> > Corpus 1 of 5: deu-fin-pending
> > 11/27 (40.74%) tests pass (11/11 (100.0%) match gold)
>
> so I start up cli and see:
>
> deu-fin 1 of 1
> INPUT:
>   Haus
> EXPECTED OUTPUT:
>   KOTI
> ACTUAL OUTPUT:
>   koti
> IDEAL OUTPUTS:
>   talo
>
> if the case was that it's a bug in the (dix/t*x) code I'm not sure what
> command to use to skip and see next error?

There is now 'skip' or 'k' for that.

>
> Another question is that in lot of expected files there seems to be
> all-capsed words for fin-* pairs, I am not sure how this has happened?
> I am guessing my apertium is older and some ICU changes have affected
> the output, perhaps in some code I've copypasted ununderstandingly to
> all fin-* pairs.
>

For that example in particular (and likely others as well), the t1x
output code says



which gives the chunk an all-caps lemma (caseFirstWord is a
non-existent variable, so it has no effect) and then the default
behavior of postchunk is to copy the chunk case to the words, so

^NP{^koti$}$

becomes

^KOTI$^.$

so I think this might be a case of inadvertently relying on a bug in
the old transfer case-handling functions and I'm not quite sure what
the appropriate solution is.

Daniel


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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Regression Testing Now Operational

[Daniel Swanson]

On Tue, Jul 27, 2021 at 8:47 AM Flammie A Pirinen  wrote:
>
> Am Fri, Jul 23, 2021 at 08:14:01PM -0500 schrieb Daniel Swanson:
>
> > At the beginning of last week, 47 languages and pairs had a meaningful
> > 'make test', and several of those were failing. As of today, 365 repos
> > have 'make test' and virtually all are passing.
>
> That's exciting, here's some first test run minor suggestions:
>
> * make test after git pull failed with "apertium-regtest: command not
>   found", which is ok for devs but could be improved with having regtest
>   stuff test in AM_CONDITIONALS possibly with informative message

I shall investigate how to do that.

> * apertium-regtest has no ./autogen.sh, people have gotten used to that
>   so even just having autoreconf -fvi in it is a good idea

Will change that in a moment.

>
> Running teh actual tests in apertium-fin-nor I get:
>
> make test
> Making all in docs
> make[1]: Verzeichnis „/home/flammie/github/apertium/apertium-fin-nor/docs“ 
> wird betreten
> make[1]: Für das Ziel „all“ ist nichts zu tun.
> make[1]: Verzeichnis „/home/flammie/github/apertium/apertium-fin-nor/docs“ 
> wird verlassen
> make[1]: Verzeichnis „/home/flammie/github/apertium/apertium-fin-nor“ wird 
> betreten
> apertium-validate-modes modes.xml
> apertium-gen-modes modes.xml
> make[1]: Verzeichnis „/home/flammie/github/apertium/apertium-fin-nor“ wird 
> verlassen
> apertium-regtest test
> Corpus 1 of 4: fin-nob
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/usr/local/bin/apertium-regtest", line 1041, in 
> if not static_test(args.ignore_add):
>   File "/usr/local/bin/apertium-regtest", line 950, in static_test
> corp.load()
>   File "/usr/local/bin/apertium-regtest", line 378, in load
> outdata = load_output(self.out_name(c))
>   File "/usr/local/bin/apertium-regtest", line 79, in load_output
> l = int(l[1:])
> TypeError: 'int' object is not subscriptable
> make: *** [Makefile:1132: test] Fehler 1
>
> perhaps this is different version of pyhthon or libraries? I have
> python 3.9.1 on linux.

That's a typo for which I pushed a fix ~5 minutes ago.

>
> --
> Regards, Flammie <https://flammie.github.io>
> (Please note, that I will often include my replies inline instead of
> top or bottom of the mail)
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[Apertium-stuff] Regression Testing Now Operational

[Daniel Swanson]

Greetings Apertiumers!

At the beginning of last week, 47 languages and pairs had a meaningful
'make test', and several of those were failing. As of today, 365 repos
have 'make test' and virtually all are passing.

These tests can be run with apertium-regtest, which can be installed
from the nightly repositories (and probably already is installed if
you've updated apertium-all-dev recently).

Wiki page: https://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/Apertium-regtest
Repo: https://github.com/apertium/apertium-regtest

As always, suggestions, bug reports, requests, comments, etc. welcome.

Daniel (irc: popcorndude)


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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Regression Testing System Proposal

[Daniel Swanson]

Greetings Apertiumers!

As previously mentioned, part of my GSoC project this year involves
consolidating and improving regression testing across our language and
translation repositories.

The program for running the tests and interacting with the data is now
functional and I would welcome feedback on it if anyone has time.

The code can be found at https://github.com/apertium/apertium-regtest
Documentation can be found at
https://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/User:Popcorndude/Regression-Testing
And a repository with the system set up can be found at
https://github.com/apertium/apertium-wad

I welcome feedback on features, structure, interface, bugs (there are
probably bugs), or anything else.

I'm happy to start setting up particular repositories now for people
to try it out on, otherwise the plan is to set it up everywhere in a
week or two when I've finished testing it.

Daniel (irc: popcorndude)

On Tue, Mar 2, 2021 at 6:54 PM Daniel Swanson
 wrote:
>
> Greetings Apertiumers!
>
> TL;DR: I'm designing a regression testing framework and hope to use it
> to improve testing across all of Apertium if no one objects.
>
> I have recently been designing a regression testing framework for
> Apertium language modules and translation pairs so that we can have a
> measure of quality assurance in all repositories and have this measure
> be consistent across the organization.
>
> If Apertium participates in Google Summer of Code this year and my
> project is accepted, I intend to implement this system and apply it to
> all repositories, converting any existing tests in the process. If I
> do not do this as part of GSoC, I still plan to work on it, barring
> unresolvable objections, though it may take longer.
>
> As this is a change that affects everyone, I thought it was probably a
> good idea to get community input on this as early as possible.
>
> The current version of my proposal can be found at
> https://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/User:Popcorndude/Regression-Testing
>
> In summary, the developer provides a file containing a list of inputs.
> The testing framework passes these inputs through the translation or
> analysis pipeline, recording the output of each step. These outputs
> are compared to the outputs of previous runs and the ideal outputs (a
> particular input need not have an ideal output and it may have
> several).
>
> Any differences that are found are presented to the developer. If
> these differences are an improvement over the previous output, they
> will become the new standard of comparison.
>
> In this way, the test corpus will serve the function of a set of unit
> tests which catch regressions while at the same time automatically
> updating to reflect improvements.
>
> I believe that all existing tests can be converted to this format
> without loss of information. Doing so would also be an opportunity to
> complete the transition from 2-letter codes to 3-letter codes and
> ensure that all repos have good READMEs.
>
> In addition, this could be set up with continuous integration
> (probably through GitHub Actions) which would give us the ability to
> automatically validate commits and PRs as not causing regressions and
> also generate status badges for the READMEs to indicate things like
> WER and coverage.
>
> In any event, I welcome feedback on this proposal, whether by email,
> on the wiki talk page, or on IRC (nick: popcorndude).
>
> Daniel


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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Usage of mfn tag in the Hindi dictionary

[Daniel Swanson]

The forms in question are used in the kok-hin bidix, so that would
need to be updated too.

I've been thinking about how to write a script to update all uses of a
tag and I think next week or the week after I might have time to
actually finish that, which sounds like it might be of use here.

Daniel

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 8:25 AM Hèctor Alòs i Font  wrote:
>
> Missatge de Anuradha Pandey  del dia dc., 5 de maig 
> 2021 a les 15:51:
>>
>> Hello everyone,
>> I have been working on a new language pair, and I was having a look at the 
>> word forms defined in the Hindi paradigms. The "mfn" tag seems suspicious 
>> for Hindi. It stands for gender-neutral by definition, like "it" in English. 
>>  Hindi nouns have two grammatical genders: masculine and feminine. There is 
>> no neutral gender for nouns in Hindi. The mfn tag has been used at 3 places -
>>
>>  "गलत__adj"
>> "स/ा__adj"
>> "एक__det"
>>
>> The last paradigm makes sense since a determiner can be gender-neutral. 
>> However, I was curious about their usage in the case of adjectives. The 
>> definitions of these have used the "mfn" tag along with the "sp" tag(which 
>> is wherein singular and plural are equivalent I suppose). I couldn't come up 
>> with an example where the adjective is gender-neutral and are singular and 
>> plural are equivalent.
>
>
> Even if the determiner has the same form for both genders, masculine and 
> feminine, I would expect an "mf" tag, not an "mfn" one.
> In fact the whole paradigm is quite strange:
>
> 
>n="sg"/>
> 
>
> So, there is only one single form, just for singular and for the oblique 
> case, and the order of the tags is not the expected: gender, number and case 
> (as the adjectives and the nous have).
>
> Other paradigms determinants have other unexpected forms, with only one form 
> and without any gender and/or case tags.
>
> This kind of things are unexpected for a released language. If these 
> paradigms are changed in the Hindi dictionary and the Hindi-Urdu released 
> pair relies on them, it could not work.
>
> Hèctor
>
>>
>>
>> If someone who has worked with the Hindi dictionary can clarify the logic 
>> behind using this tag, and give an example for better clarity, it would be 
>> really helpful.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Anuradha Pandey
>> IRC: Anuradha_Pandey
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] std::exception in es-ca

[Daniel Swanson]

In the command that you copied, note the $1 and $2. Try removing $2
and changing $1 to -g

On Thu, Apr 15, 2021 at 5:55 AM Egea Piñeiro Helena
 wrote:
>
> No, please, for some reasons I need to still use this versions. I understand 
> there is no support but just in case those bugs had happened to someone else 
> before or know where do they come from.
>
> I am aware those versions too, I had installed them myself
>
> Thanks!
>
> Get Outlook for Android
>
> 
> From: Tino Didriksen 
> Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2021 12:34:51 PM
> To: [apertium-stuff] 
> Cc: Egea Piñeiro Helena 
> Subject: Re: [Apertium-stuff] std::exception in es-ca
>
> es-ca 1.2.1 is dead and gone, replaced with 
> https://github.com/apertium/apertium-spa-cat a long time ago. Guess I'll have 
> to clean up SourceForge's files to avoid such mistakes.
>
> Depending on your OS/distro you can get builds of apertium-spa-cat from our 
> nightly repos https://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/Installation , or just build it 
> from a git clone if you prefer.
>
> -- Tino Didriksen
>
>
> On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 at 11:07, Helena Egea Piñeiro  
> wrote:
>
> Hi!
>
> I'm trying to manually check the pipeline of apertium translation in es-ca 
> 1.2.1 and I come out with this std::exception trying to generate the final 
> translation.
>
>
> echo "tengo trabajo" |  /usr/local/bin/lt-proc 
> /usr/local/share/apertium/apertium-es-ca/es-ca.automorf.bin 
> |/usr/local/bin/apertium-tagger -g $2 
> /usr/local/share/apertium/apertium-es-ca/es-ca.prob 
> |/usr/local/bin/apertium-pretransfer|/usr/local/bin/apertium-transfer 
> /usr/local/share/apertium/apertium-es-ca/es-ca.t1x  
> /usr/local/share/apertium/apertium-es-ca/es-ca.t1x.bin  
> /usr/local/share/apertium/apertium-es-ca/es-ca.autobil.bin 
> |/usr/local/bin/lt-proc $1 
> /usr/local/share/apertium/apertium-es-ca/es-ca.autogen.bin 
> |/usr/local/bin/lt-proc -p 
> /usr/local/share/apertium/apertium-es-ca/es-ca.autopgen.bin
>
> >> std::exception
>
> echo "tengo trabajo"  /usr/local/bin/lt-proc 
> /usr/local/share/apertium/apertium-es-ca/es-ca.automorf.bin 
> |/usr/local/bin/apertium-tagger -g $2 
> /usr/local/share/apertium/apertium-es-ca/es-ca.prob 
> |/usr/local/bin/apertium-pretransfer|/usr/local/bin/apertium-transfer 
> /usr/local/share/apertium/apertium-es-ca/es-ca.t1x  
> /usr/local/share/apertium/apertium-es-ca/es-ca.t1x.bin  
> /usr/local/share/apertium/apertium-es-ca/es-ca.autobil.bin
> >> ^tenir$ ^treball$
>
>
> Also, I found some warnings when compiling in files t1x saying rule 9 blocks 
> rule 12 and other rules.. I don't know if these two thing could be related.
>
> When I translate directly with apertium es-ca everything goes fine. And that 
> pipeline I copied it from es-ca.mode. So I don't know what is executing 
> apertium that is actually working but not when I do it.
>
>
> Thanks!
>
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] GSoC Website Improvements - Proposal Draft

[Daniel Swanson]

Some things that stick out to me:

Am I correct in reading week 3 as adding a Romanian translation of the
interface?

On weeks 5, 6, and 7, could you clarify what you're referring to?

On weeks 8 and 9, what would we gain by rewriting the interface in a
different framework?

And, of course, filling in weeks 10-12. :)

Daniel

On Sat, Apr 3, 2021 at 2:24 PM Alex Marginean 
wrote:

> Hey,
>
> I'm Alex and I'm interested in participating at GSoC this summer. I have
> made a draft for my proposal for the "Website Improvements" project. I
> would really appreciate it if someone could look at this and give me
> some feedback.
> I know this is far from good but I need a bit more info on how can I
> structure the tasks and what other information I can provide or how should
> I figure it out.
>
>
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/18uaNnrRMWwhcmj0HtPPbu48E_kshNQYDnpOUmfXOTT4/edit?usp=sharing
>
> Sincerely,
> Alexandru
>
> --
>
> *Alexandru Marginean*
> Computer Science Student, alexmarginean.me
> +40 (765) 594 081
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Bitrotted releases redux

[Daniel Swanson]

-es-gl has its own dictionaries, but depends on -spa's .rlx file.

On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 11:59 AM Xavi Ivars  wrote:
>
>
>
> Missatge de Tino Didriksen  del dia dl., 29 de març 
> 2021 a les 22:00:
>>
>> https://github.com/apertium/organisation/issues/23 is still open, and these 
>> languages/pairs need someone to sign off on current state or make a formal 
>> new release.
>>
>> * https://github.com/apertium/apertium-cym
>> * https://github.com/apertium/apertium-hin
>> * https://github.com/giellalt/lang-sme
>> * https://github.com/apertium/apertium-es-gl and must depend on a specific 
>> release of https://github.com/apertium/apertium-spa
>> * https://github.com/apertium/apertium-cym-eng and must depend on a specific 
>> release of https://github.com/apertium/apertium-cym and 
>> https://github.com/apertium/apertium-eng
>> * https://github.com/apertium/apertium-eng-spa
>> * https://github.com/apertium/apertium-sme-nob
>> * https://github.com/apertium/apertium-spa-ita and must depend on a specific 
>> release of https://github.com/apertium/apertium-spa and 
>> https://github.com/apertium/apertium-ita
>> * https://github.com/apertium/apertium-urd-hin and must depend on a specific 
>> release of https://github.com/apertium/apertium-urd and 
>> https://github.com/apertium/apertium-hin
>>
>> The existing releases cannot build and/or run with current Apertium tools. 
>> These are holding back Apertium 3.7 from the main site. The alternative is 
>> that I remove these languages/pairs from the main site.
>>
>
> Hey Tino,
>
> I was looking into this, and I'm not sure why apertium-es-gl needs to depend 
> on a specific release of spa. As far as I see, this package hasn't still 
> moved to use monolingual packages, and has its own Spanish dictionaries, 
> tagger, etc. Am I missing something?
> --
> < Xavi Ivars >
> < http://xavi.ivars.me >
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Morphological analyser for Apertium

[Daniel Swanson]

Hi Gourab,

My recommendation would be to evaluate the current status -ben and
-bn-en in terms of corpus coverage and WER and then incorporate into
your proposal what those numbers are now and how much you think you
can improve them.

A pull request to one of the repositories involved would also be
worthwhile, both in terms of your understanding of how to accomplish
the tasks in your proposal and for the mentors to be able to evaluate
your proposal.

Daniel

On Mon, Mar 22, 2021 at 3:06 PM Gourab Chakraborty IIIT Dharwad
<19bcs...@iiitdwd.ac.in> wrote:
>
>
> Hi,
> I would like to participate in GSoC and am interested in contributing in 
> improving the transfer system for apertium-bn-en. My work would fall in the 
> "Develop a morphological analyser" category of the idea-list. I'm a native 
> speaker of Bengali and am really excited for the project.
>
> I have gone through the official documentation, and have already setup 
> apertium in my ubuntu system.
>
> I have prepared a draft for my GSoC proposal 
> (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1S5EY6Eddu4v1ZMqgkM0Kjl_27kBhZkDkEz0Ddmnrotk/edit?usp=sharing).
>  Since this is my first proposal for GSoC, I would really appreciate any 
> feedback. Also what should I do next?
>
> Thank you
> --
> Gourab Chakraborty (IRC: gourab337)
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] apertium-stuff

[Daniel Swanson]

Hi Arun,

We currently work pretty much entirely with text rather than audio and video.

Have you taken a look at
https://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/Ideas_for_Google_Summer_of_Code ?

Daniel

On Tue, Mar 16, 2021 at 11:12 AM hi  wrote:
>
> Hi I am Arun.V;
>
> I have 3 years of experience in python and I am studying 
> computer science and engineering (CSE) B.E
>
> I have got certification in python in NPTEL, INTERNSHALLA
>
>
>
> I read your project I actually did a small project in translating a audio 
> file from English to tamil I think the project I have done can be modified  
> and can be used to translate a video file
>
>
>
> So I am here to ask am I correct about your project to make a translating code
>
> Am I in a right path
>
>
>
> So if yes please reply
>
> If no please explain what is your  expectation so I can think about a new one 
> and build a code in python
>
> But please reply
>
>
>
> By ARUN.V;
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
>
>
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[Apertium-stuff] Regression Testing System Proposal

[Daniel Swanson]

Greetings Apertiumers!

TL;DR: I'm designing a regression testing framework and hope to use it
to improve testing across all of Apertium if no one objects.

I have recently been designing a regression testing framework for
Apertium language modules and translation pairs so that we can have a
measure of quality assurance in all repositories and have this measure
be consistent across the organization.

If Apertium participates in Google Summer of Code this year and my
project is accepted, I intend to implement this system and apply it to
all repositories, converting any existing tests in the process. If I
do not do this as part of GSoC, I still plan to work on it, barring
unresolvable objections, though it may take longer.

As this is a change that affects everyone, I thought it was probably a
good idea to get community input on this as early as possible.

The current version of my proposal can be found at
https://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/User:Popcorndude/Regression-Testing

In summary, the developer provides a file containing a list of inputs.
The testing framework passes these inputs through the translation or
analysis pipeline, recording the output of each step. These outputs
are compared to the outputs of previous runs and the ideal outputs (a
particular input need not have an ideal output and it may have
several).

Any differences that are found are presented to the developer. If
these differences are an improvement over the previous output, they
will become the new standard of comparison.

In this way, the test corpus will serve the function of a set of unit
tests which catch regressions while at the same time automatically
updating to reflect improvements.

I believe that all existing tests can be converted to this format
without loss of information. Doing so would also be an opportunity to
complete the transition from 2-letter codes to 3-letter codes and
ensure that all repos have good READMEs.

In addition, this could be set up with continuous integration
(probably through GitHub Actions) which would give us the ability to
automatically validate commits and PRs as not causing regressions and
also generate status badges for the READMEs to indicate things like
WER and coverage.

In any event, I welcome feedback on this proposal, whether by email,
on the wiki talk page, or on IRC (nick: popcorndude).

Daniel


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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Begin of sentence

[Daniel Swanson]

Neither LRX nor transfer currently have a way of matching the beginning of
a text.

On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 10:23 AM Hèctor Alòs i Font 
wrote:

> Is there any form to match a "begin of sentence" in lexical selection or
> in transfer? In transfer, usually the point of the previous sentence is
> used, but I want to match even the beginning of the first sentence of the
> text.
>
> Hèctor
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Need help for changing the default pipeline in spa-arg mode

[Daniel Swanson]

Looking at what apertium-init generates, it looks like configure.ac is fine
(covered by monolingual) so you just need to change Makefile.am. You can
find the relevant changes by searching
https://github.com/apertium/apertium-init/blob/master/bilingual-module/Makefile.am
for rlx

Looks like you need to add

$(PREFIX1).rlx.bin: $(AP_SRC1)/apertium-$(LANG1).$(LANG1).rlx
cg-comp $< $@

somewhere (add a tab before cg-comp)

and $(PREFIX1).rlx.bin to the list at the top

On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 12:45 PM Juan Pablo  wrote:

> Hi Apertiumers,
>
> I'm preparing a new release of Spanish-Aragonese pair. Last release in
> the spa->arg direction relied solely on the statistical tagger
> (spa-arg.prob), but a number of disambiguation problems are solved when
> applying before the CG in apertium-spa, so I would like to include it in
> the default mode (only in spa -> arg direction).
>
> I would need to change the configuration files so that, when compiling
> apertium-spa-arg, it creates a spa-arg.mode with a pipeline like this:
>
> lt-proc -w '/media/apertium/apertium-spa-arg/spa-arg.automorf.bin' |
> cg-proc -w '/media/apertium/apertium-spa-cat/spa-cat.rlx.bin' |
> apertium-tagger -g $2 '/media/apertium/apertium-spa-arg/spa-arg.prob' |
> apertium-pretransfer| lt-proc -b
> '/media/apertium/apertium-spa-arg/spa-arg.autobil.bin' | lrx-proc
> '/media/apertium/apertium-spa-arg/spa-arg.autolex.bin' |
> apertium-transfer -b
> '/media/apertium/apertium-spa-arg/apertium-spa-arg.spa-arg.t1x'
> '/media/apertium/apertium-spa-arg/spa-arg.t1x.bin' | lt-proc $1
> '/media/apertium/apertium-spa-arg/spa-arg.autogen.bin' | lt-proc -p
> '/media/apertium/apertium-spa-arg/spa-arg.autopgen.bin'
>
> I guess I need to change the file modes.xml (I can do that myself), but
> I don't know which other files need to be modified (and how).
>
> Thank you in advance!
>
> Juan Pablo
>
>
> --
> El software de antivirus Avast ha analizado este correo electrónico en
> busca de virus.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
>
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Getting Started

[Daniel Swanson]

Hi Shubham,

Are you familiar with any languages besides English?

https://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/Apertium_New_Language_Pair_HOWTO
https://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/Contributing_to_an_existing_pair
Have information on contributing to translation pairs.

You can also join us on IRC for quicker responses:
https://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/IRC

Daniel

On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 3:48 PM Shubham Dikshit  wrote:

> Hi everyone,
> I am an NLP and Machine Translation enthusiast who recently started
> open-source,
> and I would like your guidance on how I should start or what I should do
> to contribute in this Apertium open-source community.
> Any help would be greatly appreciated as I would like to become a regular
> contributor in this group.
>
> Thank you
>
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] An easy tool to report bad translations and propose alternatives

[Daniel Swanson]

One thing that occurs to me is to have the form check the edit distance
between the output and the suggestion and if they're too far apart notify
the user, because it seems rather unlikely that the translator would get
every single word wrong. That might cut down on useless results a little
bit (though a decent number of people would probably just hit the "yes, I
mean it" button regardless).

On Sat, Dec 5, 2020 at 11:27 AM Xavi Ivars  wrote:

> I did that for quite a long time for Softcatalà, and gave up: most of the
> reports were actually wrong or useless. From people that picked the wrong
> language pair, to people who was suggesting wrong translations, including
> many people writing something like "this is wrong" in the form.
>
>
> --
> Xavi Ivars
> < http://xavi.ivars.me >
>
> El ds., 5 de des. 2020, 12:24, Tino Didriksen  va
> escriure:
>
>> We can trivially make a Report Bad Translation button on the website that
>> pops up a 3-field dialog, where the input (static), output (static), and
>> user's correction (that they fill in) can be submitted to a database.
>>
>> -- Tino Didriksen
>>
>>
>> On Sat, 5 Dec 2020 at 10:28, Hèctor Alòs i Font 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> A Sardinian collaborator commented to me: "Wouldn't it be possible that
>>> every time there are more possible translations these come out in a little
>>> window where the user chooses the right solution, as in spell checkers"?
>>>
>>> This could be an idea for a GSoC tool project. Nevertheless, I don't
>>> think that, as he puts it, this is the best option because, in general, we
>>> have few multiple options in the bilingual dictionaries. Probably, another
>>> type of interface would be more appropriate. Is there anything done in the
>>> GSoC projects that could be used?
>>>
>>> With him, we use a simple spreadsheet in a Google Documents-like system.
>>> He enters a word or phrase, the current translation, the suitable
>>> translation and the context (sentence). This is not at all intuitive, nor
>>> easy, for a conventional user, but it is very useful. We have already dealt
>>> with several hundred errors in the Italian-Sardinian translator.
>>>
>>> Hèctor
>>>
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Setting up a new language pair

[Daniel Swanson]

Hi Christian,

One of the following pages is probably what you're looking for:
https://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/Apertium_New_Language_Pair_HOWTO
https://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/How_to_bootstrap_a_new_pair

Daniel

On Wed, Nov 25, 2020 at 3:35 PM Christian Chiarcos via Apertium-stuff <
apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

> Dear list members,
>
> apologies for my ignorance, but where can I find an overview about the
> minimal requirements to set up a new language pair for Apertium MT? I'm
> considering to contribute to the development of translation system from
> Sumerian to English to complement our NMT (and EBMT) baselines (
> https://github.com/cdli-gh), possibly in the context of the Apertium
> ecosystem.
>
> Also, as we do have lexical resources and core components for morphology
> and syntactic parsing for Sumerian in place, I was also wondering about
> suggesting work on such a prototype as a topic for a GSoC project for 2021
> -- and if there is any interest from the Apertium community in this,
> possibly as a collaborative effort (meaning joint mentorship) between the
> Cuneiform DIgital Library Initiative and the Apertium community.
>
> Clearly, a disadvantage of any MT system involving Sumerian is that the
> translation bridges languages that are not closely related by any means,
> but nevertheless, the relative data sparsity (this is an ancient language
> after all, even though well-documented) calls to explore directions of
> symbolic translation as yet another option, at least.
>
> Best regards,
> Christian
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] let's move the mailing lists to sourcehut

[Daniel Swanson]

https://sourceforge.net/p/forge/documentation/Mailing List Archives/

It looks like at least exporting them is possible.

On Wed, Sep 23, 2020 at 9:40 AM Francis Tyers  wrote:

> El 2020-09-23 15:03, Jonathan Washington escribió:
> > One other question:
> >
> > Will it be possible to move existing apertium-stuff (and PMC, etc)
> > archives to the new location?  Or would we be starting over with those
> > archives?
> >
>
> I think the PMC list is a distribution list, not a mailing list, so we
> don't have archives.
>
> And in terms of the archives. I doubt it, but perhaps SourceForge has
> a way to export them...
>
> Fran
>
>
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Fixing Phonological Processes

[Daniel Swanson]

Hi Zanga,

The best introduction to writing twol rules that I'm aware of is at
https://wikis.swarthmore.edu/ling073/Morphological_generator

The #apertium and #hfst IRC channels are also good places.

Daniel

On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 8:19 AM Zanga Chimombo  wrote:

> Hello again,
>
> I've had a bit of time to continue looking at this. I've copied over
> something from:
> https://github.com/apertium/apertium-lin/blob/master/apertium-lin.lin.twol
>
> %{K%}:k <=> :n :0 _ .#. ;
>
> But it's not working yet and I am not sure how to debug it. Is there
> an intro to twol online?
>
> Rgds, Zanga.
>
> On Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 3:56 PM Hèctor Alòs i Font 
> wrote:
> >
> > I don't think you have to do anything with the modes or the compilation
> file. The problem is in the post-yao.dix file.
> > If you add , it works:
> >
> > 
> >   
> > nk
> > ng
> >   
> >   
> > 
> >
> > $ echo "~nka" | lt-proc -p yao.autopgen.bin
> > nga
> > $ echo "~nkb" | lt-proc -p yao.autopgen.bin
> > nkb
> >
> > I don't know why without  there is no match, but in any case you
> need to add  to the relevant places (words, affixes, etc.) you want to
> trigger this rule. If you want that always nk + vowel should be ng, you
> should this in twol, not here.
> >
> > Hèctor
> >
> > Missatge de Zanga Chimombo  del dia dv., 28 d’ag.
> 2020 a les 15:41:
> >>
> >> I am still not getting anywhere and both modes.xml and the Makefile
> >> seem ok. My code is here:
> >> https://gitlab.com/zangaphee/CiBantu/-/tree/master/twoc/apertium-yao
> >>
> >> On Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 7:36 AM Hèctor Alòs i Font <
> hectora...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > The relevant files are modes.xml and Makefile.am I recommend taking a
> look to them in e.g. apertium-fra and apertium-fra-cat (or any other
> released pair using post-generation). In the first one you define the
> pipeline, so copy and adapt the call to autopgen in the end. In the second
> one you have the actual compilation of the programme.
> >> >
> >> > Missatge de Zanga Chimombo  del dia dv., 28
> d’ag. 2020 a les 7:52:
> >> >>
> >> >> Hi again, I actually have:
> >> >>
> >> >> 
> >> >>   
> >> >> nk
> >> >> ng
> >> >>   
> >> >>   
> >> >> 
> >> >>
> >> >> But it doesn't seem to get executed. Is there a missing flag/ switch
> >> >> that I was supposed to initialise/ build with? I am not seeing
> >> >> anything relating to building autopgen in the modes.xml file in the
> >> >> monolingual directory...?
> >> >>
> >> >> On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 2:57 PM Hèctor Alòs i Font <
> hectora...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Yes, it is in the monodix. It is just a mark put on the right
> side, e.g.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   que
> >> >> >   que   que n="itg"/>
> >> >> >
> >> >> > If you want, you may not put it, but if you have in the post-dix
> file something like:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > 
> >> >> >   
> >> >> > nk
> >> >> > ng
> >> >> >   
> >> >> > 
> >> >> >
> >> >> > ... then every nk will be substituted by ng. That is not what you
> want, for sure. So better to put a mark in the dictionnary to know which
> "nk" may be changed (in some contexts) to nk.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Missatge de Zanga Chimombo  del dia dj., 27
> d’ag. 2020 a les 15:18:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Looking at the examples in apertium-fra.post-fra.dix it is clear
> that
> >> >> >> the tilde/ ~/  is inserted as some sort of marker earlier in
> the
> >> >> >> pipeline so that the PG recognises it and actions on it.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Where in the pipeline is it inserted? Could you give me a line
> number
> >> >> >> of the insertion within the monodix perhaps?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 12:12 PM Hèctor Alòs i Font
> >> >> >>  wrote:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > You can take a look, for instance to
> https://github.com/apertium/apertium-fra/blob/master/apertium-fra.post-fra.dix
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > For example (at line 633) :
> >> >> >> > nen'
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Missatge de Hèctor Alòs i Font  del dia
> dj., 27 d’ag. 2020 a les 13:07:
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> There two things in:
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> 
> >> >> >> >>   
> >> >> >> >> nk
> >> >> >> >> ng
> >> >> >> >>   
> >> >> >> >> 
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> First is the  that must precede (that's the ~ Kevin said
> because it is shown as a tilde in the output). If you don't have it, there
> won't be any matching.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> Second, is the , i.e. a space. So nk- will not match, but
> only nk followed by a blank (a preceded by an ). If matched, it will be
> replaced by ng followed by a blank to.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> Hèctor
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> Missatge de Zanga Chimombo  del dia
> dj., 27 d’ag. 2020 a les 12:31:
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>> Not sure I know what you mean by "~"...? Sorry. I'm new to
> this
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>> The input is "nkutenda". Expected output: 

Re: [Apertium-stuff] Fixing Phonological Processes

[Daniel Swanson]

Hi Héctor,

The Wamesa analyser was written by me as a class project. I originally
wrote it in lexc and then converted to lexd for comparison and then left it
that way because one of the initial design goals of lexd was to get rid of
everything that annoyed me about lexc.

Daniel

On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 8:56 AM Hèctor Alòs i Font 
wrote:

> I'm glad to see that someone is working on an endangered austronesian
> language. Who is he/she? I guess lexd/twol is used mostly for Wamesa
> because of its phonotactics, isn't? Morphology seems not to be an issue as
> big as in the other three languages.
> Hèctor
>
> Missatge de Jonathan Washington  del dia
> ds., 29 d’ag. 2020 a les 17:27:
>
>> Hi Zanga,
>>
>> Given the highly agglutinative nature of Yao morphology, using dix to
>> model it is probably not a great option.  Also, as you and Hèctor have
>> concluded, the morphophonology will be much easier to model using twol.
>>
>> Given the extent to which the morphology involves prefixes, lexc (what we
>> traditionally use with twol) is probably also a poor choice for modeling
>> the morphology.  However, lexd was designed as a replacement for lexc for
>> languages like Yao (and works well with twol).  I think this is the route
>> you should take.
>>
>> Documentation is available here:
>>
>> https://github.com/apertium/lexd/blob/master/Usage.md
>>
>> Some languages in Apertium whose morphologies are already implemented in
>> lexd (none are entirely complete yet, but some are pretty far along):
>>
>> Swahili: https://github.com/apertium/apertium-swa
>> Lingala: https://github.com/apertium/apertium-lin
>> Nivkh: https://github.com/apertium/apertium-niv
>> Wamesa: https://github.com/apertium/apertium-wad
>>
>> I probably forgot a few, but these should provide good models (and two
>> are related to Yao).  There are also a couple other languages being
>> developed using lexd that aren't public (yet).
>>
>> And of course you can message this list if you have trouble, or ask in
>> real time in the IRC channel.
>>
>> --
>> Jonathan
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 02:30 Zanga Chimombo  wrote:
>>
>>> Yes. I think I should be using twol
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 3:56 PM Hèctor Alòs i Font 
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > I don't think you have to do anything with the modes or the
>>> compilation file. The problem is in the post-yao.dix file.
>>> > If you add , it works:
>>> >
>>> > 
>>> >   
>>> > nk
>>> > ng
>>> >   
>>> >   
>>> > 
>>> >
>>> > $ echo "~nka" | lt-proc -p yao.autopgen.bin
>>> > nga
>>> > $ echo "~nkb" | lt-proc -p yao.autopgen.bin
>>> > nkb
>>> >
>>> > I don't know why without  there is no match, but in any case you
>>> need to add  to the relevant places (words, affixes, etc.) you want to
>>> trigger this rule. If you want that always nk + vowel should be ng, you
>>> should this in twol, not here.
>>> >
>>> > Hèctor
>>> >
>>> > Missatge de Zanga Chimombo  del dia dv., 28
>>> d’ag. 2020 a les 15:41:
>>> >>
>>> >> I am still not getting anywhere and both modes.xml and the Makefile
>>> >> seem ok. My code is here:
>>> >> https://gitlab.com/zangaphee/CiBantu/-/tree/master/twoc/apertium-yao
>>> >>
>>> >> On Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 7:36 AM Hèctor Alòs i Font <
>>> hectora...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> > The relevant files are modes.xml and Makefile.am I recommend taking
>>> a look to them in e.g. apertium-fra and apertium-fra-cat (or any other
>>> released pair using post-generation). In the first one you define the
>>> pipeline, so copy and adapt the call to autopgen in the end. In the second
>>> one you have the actual compilation of the programme.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Missatge de Zanga Chimombo  del dia dv., 28
>>> d’ag. 2020 a les 7:52:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Hi again, I actually have:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> 
>>> >> >>   
>>> >> >> nk
>>> >> >> ng
>>> >> >>   
>>> >> >>   
>>> >> >> 
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> But it doesn't seem to get executed. Is there a missing flag/
>>> switch
>>> >> >> that I was supposed to initialise/ build with? I am not seeing
>>> >> >> anything relating to building autopgen in the modes.xml file in the
>>> >> >> monolingual directory...?
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 2:57 PM Hèctor Alòs i Font <
>>> hectora...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > Yes, it is in the monodix. It is just a mark put on the right
>>> side, e.g.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >   que
>>> >> >> >   que   que>> n="prn"/>
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > If you want, you may not put it, but if you have in the post-dix
>>> file something like:
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > 
>>> >> >> >   
>>> >> >> > nk
>>> >> >> > ng
>>> >> >> >   
>>> >> >> > 
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > ... then every nk will be substituted by ng. That is not what
>>> you want, for sure. So better to put a mark in the dictionnary to know
>>> which "nk" may be changed (in some contexts) to nk.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > Missatge de Zanga Chimombo  del dia dj.,

Re: [Apertium-stuff] How useful is eliminating trimming for language developers?

[Daniel Swanson]

Hi Apertiumers,

> Wasn't there a "separable"-based solution that looked good though?

Besides trimming and not trimming, I would like to suggest a third alternative.

As of yesterday, apertium-separable can read and merge multiple source
files. I suggest moving MWEs from monodixes to -separable dictionaries
in the monolingual repos (this could be more or less completely
automated).

If this were done, we could apply trimming to the -separable FST
rather than the monodix, which would retain the already mentioned
benefits of not trimming while still dealing with the problems
relating to MWEs.

This would also have the benefit of enabling us to decrease redundancy
elsewhere, since we could then put separable MWEs (like "take out") in
the monolingual repos.

The main disadvantage to this approach that I can see is that
implementing it gradually would be difficult, though if we had a way
to either skip MWEs when compiling a monodix or trim them out at the
end (not trim based on bidix, just trim anything with spaces), then
this could be implemented in stages.

If it would be helpful, I can take some language that isn't used in
very many pairs and demonstrate the changes that would be involved in
this approach.

Daniel

On Mon, May 25, 2020 at 11:31 AM Kevin Brubeck Unhammer
 wrote:
>
> Flammie A Pirinen  čálii:
>
> >> 4. Weighting the monodix will take more compile time than just trimming it.
> >
> > Some numbers would be interesting, I think both are quite heavy and we
> > don't do much further processing in finite-state algebra (/hfst space)
> > so the weighted models won't blow up. In any case, people seem to be
> > happy in 2020 to wait 70 hours for some neural stuff, few minutes for
> > weighted automata won't be too bad ;-)
>
> One of the main advantages of RBMT is we can quickly fix little things
> and see the results nearly right away. When working on nno-nob I often
> compile every few minutes. OTOH, nno-nob has good coverage, so I rarely
> notice things like missing words causing disambiguation errors. So for
> me, a noticable increase in compile time would be enough to make me not
> use this.
>
> But yes, we need numbers. It needs to be implemented and tried before
> we can decide if it should be default.
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Secondary Tag Prefixes

[Daniel Swanson]

On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 6:15 AM Flammie A Pirinen  wrote:
>
> I don't personally find apertium stream format readable, if I need to
> make sense of it I will anyways have to preprocess a lot, enough that
> I'd say apertium stream format need visualisation scripts to be
> readable. It's not very hard to have dev scripts for this. That being
> said, I don't find apertium stream format very machine readable either;
> with regexes you need tons of ëscapes and double escapes, with
> programming languages... well, you have to use regexes because it's not
> a standard format with readily available parsing library or a format
> neatly designed for python split() or c strtoks, or so... I'm fine with
> either special symbols or strings for whatever, as a purely personal
> preference I've been pro feature=value even before ud times but that's
> not important, as long as stuff is handlable with grep and sed without
> convoluted expressions it's all good, no? To that ggoal on the question
> of having known set of prefixes, I have always been of the opinion that
> any mature release-quality apertium stuff would follow the tags docu on
> the wiki[1], I would expect similar to be true for prefixes as well.
>

Regarding visualization, I've made a stream colorizer if anyone would
find such a thing useful: https://github.com/mr-martian/stream-color


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Re: [Apertium-stuff] List of verbs

[Daniel Swanson]

Also, to explain the patterns

[^<:>]+ is "match any string of characters that doesn't contain a tag or a
colon"

So the grep is "anything without tags or colons (i.e. a surface form) then
a colon then another string (a lemma) then a  tag"

The sed matches roughly the same thing except it has () around the lemma so
it can refer to it later and .* to match whatever tags there may be. \1
then replaces the line with the contents of the first (), i.e. the lemma.

On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 10:19 AM Daniel Swanson 
wrote:

> If you do want them mixed together, replacing  with
> (|||) should do it.
>
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 10:02 AM Alberto Navalón Lillo <
> alberto.navalonli...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> For me this works:
>> lt-expand apertium-swe.swe.dix | grep -E "[^<:>]+:[^<:>]+" | sed
>> -E 's/[^<:>]+:([^<:>]+).*/\1/g' | sort -u
>>
>> Though you will only get the  verbs, not others like ,
>>  or . This might be useful if you want to keep all of those
>> categories separate. Change the  I highlighted by the any of the
>> other verb categories listed in
>> http://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/List_of_symbols and it should be fine.
>>
>> Best,
>> Alberto
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 3:52 PM Per Tunedal 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>> Now I would like to list the verbs. I cannot fully understand the grep-
>>> and sed expressions for getting the nouns:
>>>
>>> lt-expand apertium-swe.swe.dix | grep -E "[^<:>]+:[^<:>]+" | sed -E
>>> 's/[^<:>]+:([^<:>]+).*/\1/g' | sort -u
>>>
>>> How should I modify the expressions to get the verbs instead?
>>>
>>> Yours,
>>> Per Tunedal
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Alberto Navalón Lillo   https://albertonl.github.io
>> IES María Blasco
>> E-03690 Sant Vicent del Raspeig
>> Spain
>>
>> EN: You can learn more about me here
>> <https://albertonl.github.io/about/en>. Thank you!
>> ES: Usted puede aprender más sobre mí aquí
>> <https://albertonl.github.io/about/es>. ¡Gracias!
>> CA: Vosté pot aprendre més sobre mi ací
>> <https://albertonl.github.io/about/ca>. Gràcies!
>> LV: Jūs varat mācīties vairāk par mani šeit
>> <https://albertonl.github.io/about/lv>. Paldies!
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] List of verbs

[Daniel Swanson]

If you do want them mixed together, replacing  with
(|||) should do it.

On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 10:02 AM Alberto Navalón Lillo <
alberto.navalonli...@gmail.com> wrote:

> For me this works:
> lt-expand apertium-swe.swe.dix | grep -E "[^<:>]+:[^<:>]+" | sed
> -E 's/[^<:>]+:([^<:>]+).*/\1/g' | sort -u
>
> Though you will only get the  verbs, not others like ,
>  or . This might be useful if you want to keep all of those
> categories separate. Change the  I highlighted by the any of the
> other verb categories listed in
> http://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/List_of_symbols and it should be fine.
>
> Best,
> Alberto
>
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 3:52 PM Per Tunedal 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> Now I would like to list the verbs. I cannot fully understand the grep-
>> and sed expressions for getting the nouns:
>>
>> lt-expand apertium-swe.swe.dix | grep -E "[^<:>]+:[^<:>]+" | sed -E
>> 's/[^<:>]+:([^<:>]+).*/\1/g' | sort -u
>>
>> How should I modify the expressions to get the verbs instead?
>>
>> Yours,
>> Per Tunedal
>>
>>
>> ___
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>
>
> --
> Alberto Navalón Lillo   https://albertonl.github.io
> IES María Blasco
> E-03690 Sant Vicent del Raspeig
> Spain
>
> EN: You can learn more about me here
> . Thank you!
> ES: Usted puede aprender más sobre mí aquí
> . ¡Gracias!
> CA: Vosté pot aprendre més sobre mi ací
> . Gràcies!
> LV: Jūs varat mācīties vairāk par mani šeit
> . Paldies!
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] How do I get a list of lemmas for nouns

[Daniel Swanson]

Hi Per,

If I understand correctly, this might give what you want:

lt-expand apertium-swe.swe.dix | grep -E "[^<:>]+:[^<:>]+" | sed -E
's/[^<:>]+:([^<:>]+).*/\1/g' | uniq

lt-expand lists all the forms, grep finds all the ones where the first tag
is , sed gets rid of everything but the lemma, and uniq removes
duplicates.

Daniel

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:54 AM Per Tunedal 
wrote:

> Hi,
> I need an ordinary dictionary of Swedish lemmas (just the lemmas, nothing
> else). How do I accomplish this?
>
> I read the Wiki:
> http://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/Dixtools:_Grep
>
> Thus I tried:
> apertium-dixtools grep --par '.*__n' apertium-swe.swe.dix
>
> but nothing was filtered. I got the whole file.
>
> I have a bit trouble using grep, as I find regular expressions a bit hard
> to grasp. Unfortunately, I often get it wrong and get unexpected results.
>
> Now, I would like a list of nouns (just the lemmas) for a start. Then I
> need lists of the other parts of speech, verbs for instance.
>
> The expression below from http://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/Dictionary_reader:
> apertium-dixtools dic-reader list-lemmas apertium-swe.swe.dix
> gives me ALL lemmas. But I would like to choose the part of speech.
>
> I'm running Ubuntu as an app on Windows 10.
>
> Please give me a hand!
>
> Yours,
> Per Tunedal
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Modifying the apertium stream format to include arbitrary information

[Daniel Swanson]

I think what's written in the proposal is to have pattern matching FSTs
skip secondary tags (in this case a small modification to lrx-proc).

It was suggested that matching secondary tags would end up as some sort of
hash table lookup separate from the FSTs, but I think it could also work to
just have some way of specifying that you want secondary tags treated like
normal tags for the purposes of matching, in which case presumably you
would have written all your rules to use .*.

On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 12:14 PM Jonathan Washington <
jonathan.n.washing...@gmail.com> wrote:

> The main thing I worry about here is lrx rules.
>
> Currently a lot of pairs have rules that match e.g. tags="adj", but not
> necessarily tags="adj.*".  So something that's normally hargle might
> now be hargle, and that means the lrx rule won't match.
>
> Since we want this to be backwards-compatible (without rewriting rules),
> the lrx compiler and/or processor will have to be rewritten to ignore
> secondary tags for matching (unless a rule is written to check a secondary
> tag??).
>
> I guess this sort of worry is the sort of thing you're keeping track of so
> that it can be worked on?
>
> --
> Jonathan
>
> On Mon, Apr 20, 2020, 14:52 Tanmai Khanna  wrote:
>
>> In a nutshell, by using the source analysis for disambiguation and
>> transfer, we make the translation output better, and by outputting the
>> source surface form instead of the source lemma, we make the output more
>> comprehensible, or post-editable.
>>
>> Tanmai
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 12:19 AM Tanmai Khanna 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hey Francis,
>>> I agree that it does seem like a solution searching for a problem if we
>>> look at it in isolation. But it's important to look at this in the context
>>> of eliminating trimming. Chronologically, this project was first about and
>>> still is, about eliminating dictionary trimming. Modification to the stream
>>> is just part of the solution - a solution that will help this problem, but
>>> also potentially several other problems, such as the superblank reordering
>>> problem. I went into detail about this in the proposal but I'll explain it
>>> here.
>>>
>>> The monodix of a language is generally larger than the bidix for a
>>> language pair involving that language pair. It was noticed that if used as
>>> is, there are a lot of translation errors (the ones with @), which
>>> basically just put the lemma of the source language if a translation
>>> isnt available. To deal with this, dictionary trimming was added, which
>>> basically removed a word from the monodix if it wasn't present in the bidix
>>> and it went through the pipeline as an unknown word and the source surface
>>> form was found in the final translation (with a *), which is arguably
>>> better and more intelligible than just the source lemma.
>>>
>>> However, trimming meant giving up certain benefits. Let's look at these
>>> benefits in greater detail:
>>>
>>>- *Lexical Selection:* By discarding the analysis of a word in the
>>>source language, we lose the ability to use it as context to disambiguate
>>>words in its context. Assume a [Noun Adjective] in which the we don't 
>>> know
>>>the translation of the Adjective, i.e. it isn't in the bidix. With 
>>> trimming
>>>we would discard it and hence if the Noun has several ambiguous forms, we
>>>have no way to disambiguate it since we've discarded the analysis of the
>>>Adjective (which included the fact that it's an adjective)
>>>- *Transfer:* In the same example, assume that in the target
>>>language, [Noun Adj] is to be rearranged into [Adj Noun]. With trimming,
>>>this can't be done as we've discarded the analysis of the Adjective,
>>>treating it as an unknown word.
>>>
>>> Now, if we don't discard the analysis and don't trim, we would again
>>> fall into the earlier problem of untranslated lemmas.
>>>
>>> This project, is a way to have our cake and eat it too. We don't discard
>>> the analysis even if we don't know the translation, but we don't just
>>> output the lemma either - we output the source surface form. For a solution
>>> like this, it is *essential that we propagate the surface form till at
>>> least transfer or even till the generator*, so that we can use the
>>> benefits of the source analysis and then before translation, we discard it
>>> and use the source surface form.
>>>
>>

Re: [Apertium-stuff] Where do I find the dictionaries

[Daniel Swanson]

You can get the Swedish monodix from
https://github.com/apertium/apertium-swe or by running 'apertium-get swe'

On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 2:51 PM Per Tunedal 
wrote:

> Hi,
> I'm a bit rusty, not having used Apertium for a long time.
>
> I would like to get a dictionary containing Swedish lemmas, doing
> something like:
>
> apertium-dixtools grep --par '.*__n' apertium-swe.dix
>
> Where do I find the Swedish monodix?
>
> I'm running Ubuntu as an app on Windows 10. I've installed Apertium
> nightly build. The language pairs swe-dan and swe-nor are installed from
> the repository with sudo apt-get install ...
>
> And I've successfully installed apertium-dixtools. Then I got stuck. I
> cannot figure out where the language files are installed.
>
> Yours,
> Per Tunedal
>
>
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Modifying the apertium stream format to include arbitrary information

[Daniel Swanson]

> Another way of putting this is that it looks like a technical solution
> in search of a problem, rather than a problem description in search
> of a solution.

To me the most obvious thing to do with it is to put markup information in
secondary tags as a way of solving the superblank reordering problem.

On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 2:18 PM Francis Tyers  wrote:

> El 2020-04-20 19:14, Francis Tyers escribió:
> > El 2020-04-20 19:05, Tanmai Khanna escribió:
> >> Hey guys,
> >> When I proposed the modification to the Apertium stream format
> >> earlier, it was rightly pointed out to be a bit premature and not
> >> coupled with adequate justification. As part of preparation for my
> >> project, I have tried to document the modification in a robust way,
> >> such that it makes it clear what it looks like, what the benefits are,
> >> why there would be no regression, and what are the changes that would
> >> be needed in each module of the pipeline.
> >>
> >> Here is the document:
> >>
> http://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/User:Khannatanmai/New_Apertium_stream_format
> >> . For my proposal and an explanation for why this is needed (as part
> >> of eliminating dictionary trimming), one can refer to:
> >>
> http://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/User:Khannatanmai/GSoC2020Proposal_Trimming
> >> .
> >>
> >> One thing that I'd like to point out about the benefit these new
> >> secondary tags will provide us, is that it will give us the ability to
> >> attach information to a Lexical Unit that is NOT A PART OF A
> >> PRE-DEFINED FIXED LIST, unlike primary tags (the tags we already have
> >> in the stream). While a lot of information can, and should be provided
> >> in primary tags, information like surface forms or markup tags can not
> >> be provided as pre-defined lists, and hence cannot be put in the
> >> current stream as primary tags.
> >>
> >> This modification would open an avenue for now and for the future to
> >> include information like this without touching the already immensely
> >> useful primary tags. Given that ensuring backwards compatibility will
> >> be primary in this project, I believe these documents provide enough
> >> as a proof of concept for this modification.
> >>
> >> I invite your comments, complaints and feedback regarding this
> >> modification.
> >>
> >> Thanks and Regards,
> >> Tanmai Khanna
> >>
> >
> > Thanks for this.
> >
> > What I'm still missing is a real translation/linguistic motivation, in
> > terms of which language pair will benefit from this, and how. Or does
> > this give us the ability to create new language pairs that we cannot
> > currently create. What level of improvement will this give us?
> >
> > I can see that a lot of work has been put in, but how does this work
> > correspond to improved translation quality or widened access to machine
> > translation?
> >
> > Fran
> >
>
> Another way of putting this is that it looks like a technical solution
> in search of a problem, rather than a problem description in search
> of a solution.
>
> Fran
>
>
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Election Results

[Daniel Swanson]

> Okay, so I wasn't disqualified from not being a Committer by the strict
definition, that was just used as a tie breaker?

Correct.

On Sat, Apr 4, 2020 at 4:01 PM Samuel Sloniker 
wrote:

> Okay, so I wasn't disqualified from not being a Committer by the strict
> definition, that was just used as a tie breaker?
>
> On Sat, Apr 4, 2020 at 12:36 PM Hèctor Alòs i Font 
> wrote:
>
>> Missatge de Samuel Sloniker  del dia ds., 4
>> d’abr. 2020 a les 22:11:
>>
>>> Just a quick question... If I was not eligible to run due to not being a
>>> Committer, why was my vote counted?
>>>
>>
>> Maybe I miss something. You were a candidate, weren't you? You were in
>> the census and you got a voter code, didn't you? Of course, your vote was
>> counted, and the Election Board even accepted the amendment of your vote.
>>
>> Hèctor
>>
>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Apr 4, 2020 at 11:55 AM Daniel Swanson <
>>> awesomeevildu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Apertiumers!
>>>>
>>>> The election proceedings are now complete and the votes have been
>>>> tallied as follows:
>>>>
>>>> Votes: 41
>>>> For president :
>>>> - Tino Didriksen 9
>>>> - Francis Tyers 30
>>>> For members :
>>>> - Sushain K. Cherivirala 18
>>>> - Tino Didriksen 28
>>>> - Mikel L. Forcada 29
>>>> - Scoop Gracie (pseudonym) 4
>>>> - Xavi Ivars 20
>>>> - Tanmai Khanna 4
>>>> - Francis Tyers 23
>>>> - Jonathan Washington 24
>>>> There is a tie between Scoop Gracie and Tanmai Khanna. In consultation
>>>> with the current PMC it was decided that under a strict reading of the
>>>> bylaws Tanmai Khanna would be eligible to run and Scoop Gracie would not.
>>>> Thus we announce the election results as follows:
>>>>
>>>> President: Francis Tyers
>>>> Members:
>>>> - Sushain K. Cherivirala
>>>> - Tino Didriksen
>>>> - Mikel L. Forcada
>>>> - Xavi Ivars
>>>> - Tanmai Khanna*
>>>> - Jonathan Washington
>>>>
>>>> * Due to participation in GSoC, Tanmai Khanna's appointment will be
>>>> delayed.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you to the candidates and to everyone who voted.
>>>>
>>>> The election committee,
>>>> Sevilay, Hèctor, and Daniel
>>>> ___
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Election Results

[Daniel Swanson]

Hi Apertiumers,

Three things I probably should have said in the first email:

1. The new PMC will take office 7 days from now on Saturday April 11.

2. If Tanmai Khanna is not selected for GSoC, he will take office when that
is announced on May 4. Otherwise, he will take office when the final
results of GSoC are announced on September 8.

3. The variation in how strictly the bylaws were followed throughout this
process was because this was the only point at which following them loosely
was a problem.

On Sat, Apr 4, 2020 at 3:11 PM Samuel Sloniker 
wrote:

> Just a quick question... If I was not eligible to run due to not being a
> Committer, why was my vote counted?
>
> On Sat, Apr 4, 2020 at 11:55 AM Daniel Swanson 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Apertiumers!
>>
>> The election proceedings are now complete and the votes have been tallied
>> as follows:
>>
>> Votes: 41
>> For president :
>> - Tino Didriksen 9
>> - Francis Tyers 30
>> For members :
>> - Sushain K. Cherivirala 18
>> - Tino Didriksen 28
>> - Mikel L. Forcada 29
>> - Scoop Gracie (pseudonym) 4
>> - Xavi Ivars 20
>> - Tanmai Khanna 4
>> - Francis Tyers 23
>> - Jonathan Washington 24
>> There is a tie between Scoop Gracie and Tanmai Khanna. In consultation
>> with the current PMC it was decided that under a strict reading of the
>> bylaws Tanmai Khanna would be eligible to run and Scoop Gracie would not.
>> Thus we announce the election results as follows:
>>
>> President: Francis Tyers
>> Members:
>> - Sushain K. Cherivirala
>> - Tino Didriksen
>> - Mikel L. Forcada
>> - Xavi Ivars
>> - Tanmai Khanna*
>> - Jonathan Washington
>>
>> * Due to participation in GSoC, Tanmai Khanna's appointment will be
>> delayed.
>>
>> Thank you to the candidates and to everyone who voted.
>>
>> The election committee,
>> Sevilay, Hèctor, and Daniel
>> ___
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[Apertium-stuff] Election Results

[Daniel Swanson]

Hi Apertiumers!

The election proceedings are now complete and the votes have been tallied
as follows:

Votes: 41
For president :
- Tino Didriksen 9
- Francis Tyers 30
For members :
- Sushain K. Cherivirala 18
- Tino Didriksen 28
- Mikel L. Forcada 29
- Scoop Gracie (pseudonym) 4
- Xavi Ivars 20
- Tanmai Khanna 4
- Francis Tyers 23
- Jonathan Washington 24
There is a tie between Scoop Gracie and Tanmai Khanna. In consultation with
the current PMC it was decided that under a strict reading of the bylaws
Tanmai Khanna would be eligible to run and Scoop Gracie would not. Thus we
announce the election results as follows:

President: Francis Tyers
Members:
- Sushain K. Cherivirala
- Tino Didriksen
- Mikel L. Forcada
- Xavi Ivars
- Tanmai Khanna*
- Jonathan Washington

* Due to participation in GSoC, Tanmai Khanna's appointment will be delayed.

Thank you to the candidates and to everyone who voted.

The election committee,
Sevilay, Hèctor, and Daniel
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Modifying the apertium stream format to include arbitrary information

[Daniel Swanson]

I think you could reasonably consider it consistent, just with primary
information having an empty prefix, which makes sense, given that it is
primary.

On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 6:00 PM Scoop Gracie  wrote:

> Oh, okay, that makes sense. I was also thinking it might make it easier
> for humans to debug the format.
>
> On Sat, Mar 28, 2020, 14:55 Tanmai Khanna  wrote:
>
>> Scoopgracie,
>> We discussed something similar to this on the IRC, while doing that would
>> make things very consistent, it would become too verbose, which is why it
>> might be easier to not have the feature:value format for primary
>> information, i,e., information that's almost always going to be there, and
>> only have it for secondary/optional information.
>>
>> Secondly, by only adding a new format for secondary information, it
>> wouldn't disturb the current data files or even parsers too much.
>>
>> However, if we all think consistency should be our primary focus, this
>> could be considered.
>>
>> Tanmai
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 2:29 AM Scoop Gracie 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Or =
>>>
>>> On Sat, Mar 28, 2020, 13:58 Scoop Gracie  wrote:
>>>
 That sounds like a great idea to me. Maybe  could even become
 ?

 On Sat, Mar 28, 2020, 13:51 Tanmai Khanna 
 wrote:

> Hey guys,
> As part of the project to eliminate trimming, I had to come up with a
> way to include the surface form in the lexical unit and hence modifying 
> the
> apertium stream format. To do this I would have to modify the parsers of
> every program in the pipeline, and if that has to happen, we discussed on
> the IRC that *it might be a good idea to modify the stream in such a
> way that we can include an arbitrary amount of information in a lexical
> unit, and each program can use whatever information they need.*
>
> The current information in the lexical unit would be primary
> information, and then we would have optional secondary information which
> could contain the surface form, but also literally anything you can think
> of (case, sentiment, pragmatic info, etc.). This would open up a lot of
> possibilities for each program, and it would strengthen the apertium 
> stream
> format considerably.
>
> We discussed several possible syntax for this new stream format, and
> the one that seems the best is something like this:
>
> ^potato/patata$
>
> This doesn't mess with the current stream format too much. The number
> of tags is already arbitrary so that helps. The secondary tags contain a
> ":" that would help distinguish them from primary tags.
>
> To implement this a modification would still be needed to all the
> parsers but the benefits far outweigh the amount of work needed to pull
> this off.
>
> Since this would be a major fundamental change to Apertium, I request
> you all to contribute with your views, any pros, cons, suggestions - to 
> the
> idea, to the syntax, anything.
>
> Thanks and Regards,
> Tanmai Khanna
>
> --
> *Khanna, Tanmai*
> ___
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 ___
>>> Apertium-stuff mailing list
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>>
>>
>> --
>> *Khanna, Tanmai*
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] PMC election: Proclamation of the candidates.

[Daniel Swanson]

Barring technical difficulties, I plan to send them out tomorrow morning.

On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 1:56 PM Scoop Gracie  wrote:
>
> Not sure when the ballots are supposed to go out, but I don't have one yet.
>
> On Wed, Mar 25, 2020, 10:08 Hèctor Alòs i Font  wrote:
>>
>> There's nothing to the contrary in the by-laws, so they are allowed. In 
>> fact, in a normal election I suspect this must be the usual practice for 
>> candidates.
>>
>> El dc., 25 març 2020, 19.29, Scoop Gracie  va 
>> escriure:
>>>
>>> Are candidates allowed to vote for themselves?
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 25, 2020, 05:06 Hèctor Alòs i Font  wrote:

 Hi Tanmai,

 The by-laws are quite specific at this point (article 24):

 "j. Once candidates are proclaimed, Committers with the right to vote will 
 send a ballot with:

 The name of a candidate to president of the Project Management Committee, 
 and
 The name of up to four candidates to members of the Project Management 
 Committee

 k. There will be 7 days to send the ballots"


 Hèctor

 Missatge de Tanmai Khanna  del dia dc., 25 de 
 març 2020 a les 14:50:
>
> Hey Hèctor,
> What's the voting system that the election board will follow? Will it be 
> first past the post or a ranked system like STV?
> Also, will I as a voter get 7 votes for the PMC or will I get 1 vote?
> Clarifying these and the thought-process behind the choice will make the 
> process more transparent.
>
> Thanks and Regards,
> Tanmai
>
> On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 3:06 PM Hèctor Alòs i Font  
> wrote:
>>
>> The final census of voters for the Apertium Project Management Committee 
>> election is here. Nobody has found anything to amend.
>>
>> The following people have indicated they want to run for PMC members:
>>
>> - Sushain K. Cherivirala
>> - Tino Didriksen
>> - Mikel L. Forcada
>> - Scoop Gracie (pseudonym)
>> - Xavi Ivars
>> - Tanmai Khanna
>> - Francis Tyers
>> - Jonathan Washington
>>
>> Two candidates are standing for PMC President:
>>
>> - Tino Didriksen
>> - Francis Tyers
>>
>> The ballots will be sent to the voters shortly.
>>
>> On behalf of the Election Board,
>> Hèctor Alòs i Font
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>
>
>
> --
> Khanna, Tanmai
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 ___
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Lexd: a transducer compiler for prefixes and stuff

[Daniel Swanson]

On Mon, Feb 3, 2020 at 8:28 AM Kevin Brubeck Unhammer  wrote:
>
> Daniel Swanson
>  čálii:
>
> > https://github.com/mr-martian/lexd
>
> That's really interesting! I see it depends on lttoolbox, would it make
> sense to include it in lttoolbox perhaps?
>
> Can you explain a bit more about how it works / why it's faster? Perhaps
> in the README, along with the string "600x faster" ;)

I'm not sure how much detail to put, but there's now some explanation,
some diagrams, and some numbers in the README.

I also took a shot at making an option to output to lttoolbox bin
files but didn't fully make sense of the file format. Is there
documentation of it somewhere?


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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Registration for wiki account

[Daniel Swanson]

A randomly generated password for Srj31 has been sent to
sourabhr...@gmail.com. It can be changed on the change password page upon
logging in.


On Sat, Mar 21, 2020 at 12:58 AM Sourabh Raj  wrote:

> Hi,
> I am working on Improving the Bengali-Hindi language pair and wish to
> submit a proposal for it. I request a wiki account with the username srj31.
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Get an account on wiki

[Daniel Swanson]

A randomly generated password for Weizhe has been sent to
gavinwzma...@gmail.com. It can be changed on the change password page upon
logging in.


On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 10:02 PM 杨伟哲  wrote:

> Hi list,
>
> My proposal is about to be completed, now I want to get an account on
> wiki to
> submit it soon after. Is there any one could help me? The user name I want
> is
> "Weizhe" and the mailbox can be gavinwzma...@gmail.com.
>
> Thanks a lot,
>
> Weizhe Yang
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] [GSoC 2020] Requesting a Wiki Account

[Daniel Swanson]

A randomly generated password for Chinmayk has been sent to
chinmay.kunki...@gmail.com. It can be changed on the change password page
upon logging in.


On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 2:16 PM Chinmay Kunkikar 
wrote:

> I am interested in working on - Adopt an unreleased language pair
> [mar-kon] - and wish to submit a proposal for the same.
> I am requesting a wiki account with username as chinmayk.
>
> Thanks
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Apertium PMC elections

[Daniel Swanson]

Given that GSoC applications have already begun, I think that would amount
to the same thing.

On Tue, Mar 17, 2020 at 11:38 AM Scoop Gracie  wrote:

> Alternatively, would it be possible for  him to be appointed now,
> temporarily resign before GSoC, and then be reappointed after GSoC ends?
>
> On Tue, Mar 17, 2020 at 7:29 AM Tino Didriksen 
> wrote:
>
>> Tanmai Khanna is both standing for PMC and is considering participating
>> as a student in GSoC for Apertium. These are incompatible - GSoC rules
>> state students cannot be officers of the organization they want to work for.
>>
>> I propose that if Tanmai Khanna is both elected and applies and is
>> accepted for GSoC, that we postpone his appointment to the PMC until final
>> GSoC evaluations are done. We discussed it a bit in the mentors IRC channel.
>>
>> Just one more quirk to add to the mix.
>>
>> -- Tino Didriksen
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 17 Mar 2020 at 09:33, Hèctor Alòs i Font 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> According to article 23 of the by-laws,
>>>
>>> "f) When an election is called, the Election Board will publish a
>>> temporary census of Committers with right to vote will be published.
>>> g) After 7 days to amend the census, a definitive census of Committers
>>> with right to vote will be published by the Election Board
>>> h) There will be 7 days for candidates to member and president to come
>>> forward
>>> i) The Election Board will proclaim the candidates to President and to
>>> Members of the Project Management Committee"
>>>
>>> On the one hand, a list of potential voters has been kindly published by
>>> Tino Didriksen here:
>>>
>>> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ECL_8Lkfx4A66xpHhbOTn7ljKoDcLa0w7MdFZC7DOpA/edit#gid=0
>>>
>>> The Election Board has not found any missing, and considers it a
>>> temporary census. If someone thinks there is a mistake, and someone is
>>> missing or left over, please contact the Election Board. The definitive
>>> census will be published after 7 days.
>>>
>>> On the other hand, so far, these people have indicated they want to run
>>> for PMC members:
>>>
>>> - Tino Didriksen
>>> - Scoop Gracie (pseudonym)
>>> - Xavi Ivars
>>> - Tanmai Khanna
>>> - Mikel L. Forcada
>>> - Francis Tyers
>>> - Jonathan Washington
>>>
>>> These are standing for PMC President:
>>>
>>> - Tino Didriksen (if there are more than 7 candidates for PMC members)
>>> - Francis Tyers
>>>
>>> If someone wants to stand as a candidate, there is still a week to do so.
>>>
>>> The Election Board
>>> Hèctor Alòs i Font
>>> Sevilay Bayatlı
>>> Daniel Swanson
>>>
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] GSOC 2020 | Requesting a Wiki Account

[Daniel Swanson]

A randomly generated password for Katherinew has been sent to
katheri...@nyu.edu. It can be changed on the change password page upon
logging in.


On Tue, Mar 17, 2020 at 12:50 AM Katherine Wang  wrote:

> Hi Daniel,
> 2. You can probably tell from my last name that I know am familiar with
> Chinese (but I have limited knowledge) so unfortunately, my skills would
> only lie in French-English.
> 1. If you think I could join your team,
> username: katherine ? or katherinew ? I don't really have a preference,
> thank you very much.
>
> Best,
> Katherine Wang
>
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2020 at 11:34 PM Daniel Swanson <
> awesomeevildu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Katherine,
>>
>> What would you like as your username?
>>
>> Two things to note about your proposed project:
>> 1. We do pretty much everything on Github rather than SourceForge now, so
>> the link you want is https://github.com/apertium/apertium-fra-eng
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_apertium_apertium-2Dfra-2Deng=DwMFaQ=slrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ=eY8Na5crWAXt6GDE0sFMWOsHFGmgPvbNWCUSuOym9Gw=-fj2vZIoCmiVGrKMt2lTl0euKAeWBOdFlUTFu-sCt_4=RLiQZz57Wh4t9eNQWL3VkFjAXEB2E8GLxb8NdFTHxJs=>
>> 2. We generally prefer to focus on low-resource language pairs where we
>> can reasonably hope to do better than, say Google. Are there any other
>> languages you are familiar with that you could pair with one of those?
>>
>> Daniel
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 16, 2020 at 9:49 PM Katherine Wang 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Name: Katherine Wang
>>> E-mail address: katheri...@nyu.edu
>>>
>>> Interested in the Following Projects. *Would like to connect with the 
>>> mentor leading the unreleased language pair [fra-eng] please.*
>>>
>>> 1. Adopt an unreleased language pair [fra-eng] 
>>> (https://svn.code.sf.net/p/apertium/svn/incubator/apertium-fra-eng/ 
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__svn.code.sf.net_p_apertium_svn_incubator_apertium-2Dfra-2Deng_=DwMFaQ=slrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ=eY8Na5crWAXt6GDE0sFMWOsHFGmgPvbNWCUSuOym9Gw=-fj2vZIoCmiVGrKMt2lTl0euKAeWBOdFlUTFu-sCt_4=uVVzom2SMax4IPRgLboCuCaPgU7sVp11Ze4VRObfzvY=>)
>>>
>>> Skills: Basic Machine Learning (Python)
>>>
>>> 2. Learning distributed representations for Apertium modules
>>>
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Gsoc 2020

[Daniel Swanson]

A randomly generated password for Shrey1608 has been sent to
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logging in.


On Tue, Mar 17, 2020 at 12:46 AM Shrey Modi  wrote:

> Hello Daniel
> I am applying for gsoc 2020 and i am working on one of the ideas so can i
> get a wiki account?
> I would like the username shrey1608
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