Re: BMC should have made upgrades easier - Customers loosing interests

[stephen leith]

There aren't many moving from snow to bmc. It's more common the other way 
around. 

Kind regards.

Stephen Leith

> On 10 Mar 2014, at 20:32, "James Smith"  wrote:
> 
> I have seen the service now UI, they have everything on singe UI say user 
> access, import and export, workflow development. UI is mot attractive and its 
> very clumsy.
> 
> Its very though for the non programmers to develop workflows or do 
> customizations as at some point you need to know java scripting.
> 
> In remedy, customizations and integrations are very simple. You have a great 
> tool (Developer Studio) to do all customizations which is pretty cool and I 
> like it.
> 
> But as I said customers dnt see this. As per the last two posts from shown 
> and jejus, it seems that upgrades are failing due to lack of knowlege of the 
> person doing things.
> 
> I am eager to hear the stories of client who moved from SNow to Remedy.
> 
> ___
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Re: BMC should have made upgrades easier - Customers loosing interests

[Grassi, Christopher]

If you want the benefits of BMC and zero time upgrades I would suggest looking 
into BMC Remedyforce.  This is BMC's true cloud ITSM which is upgraded 3 times 
a year and built on the Salesforce Platform.

Chris Grassi

-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of James Smith
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 8:31 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: BMC should have made upgrades easier - Customers loosing interests

I have seen the service now UI, they have everything on singe UI say user 
access, import and export, workflow development. UI is mot attractive and its 
very clumsy.

Its very though for the non programmers to develop workflows or do 
customizations as at some point you need to know java scripting.

In remedy, customizations and integrations are very simple. You have a great 
tool (Developer Studio) to do all customizations which is pretty cool and I 
like it.

But as I said customers dnt see this. As per the last two posts from shown and 
jejus, it seems that upgrades are failing due to lack of knowlege of the person 
doing things.

I am eager to hear the stories of client who moved from SNow to Remedy.

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Re: BMC should have made upgrades easier - Customers loosing interests

[stephen leith]

Not exactly the best cloud ITSM solution though. 

Kind regards.

Stephen Leith

> On 11 Mar 2014, at 11:11, "Grassi, Christopher"  wrote:
> 
> If you want the benefits of BMC and zero time upgrades I would suggest 
> looking into BMC Remedyforce.  This is BMC's true cloud ITSM which is 
> upgraded 3 times a year and built on the Salesforce Platform.
> 
> Chris Grassi
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of James Smith
> Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 8:31 PM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: BMC should have made upgrades easier - Customers loosing 
> interests
> 
> I have seen the service now UI, they have everything on singe UI say user 
> access, import and export, workflow development. UI is mot attractive and its 
> very clumsy.
> 
> Its very though for the non programmers to develop workflows or do 
> customizations as at some point you need to know java scripting.
> 
> In remedy, customizations and integrations are very simple. You have a great 
> tool (Developer Studio) to do all customizations which is pretty cool and I 
> like it.
> 
> But as I said customers dnt see this. As per the last two posts from shown 
> and jejus, it seems that upgrades are failing due to lack of knowlege of the 
> person doing things.
> 
> I am eager to hear the stories of client who moved from SNow to Remedy.
> 
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org "Where the Answers 
> Are, and have been for 20 years"
> 
> ___
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Re: BMC should have made upgrades easier - Customers loosing interests

[stephen leith]

Lol

Kind regards.

Stephen Leith

> On 10 Mar 2014, at 19:31, "John Sundberg"  
> wrote:
> 
> **
> A debate would be good.
> 
> But I doubt you could you find anybody to defend the BMC approach.
> 
> Debate is now done.
> 
> 
> -John
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 2:24 PM, James Smith  
>> wrote:
>> Hi List,
>> 
>> BMC made the upgrade process so complex that customer are scared to upgrade 
>> to new versions. Upgrade is eating almost a year to move to 8.1 with data 
>> migrations and all integrations.
>> 
>> In the past we used to upgrade on the existing server only which was easy 
>> but there was a risk in loosing a customization. But that was easy process 
>> and we need not had to bother about data migrations here. In upgrade data 
>> migration is something like a challenging thing.
>> 
>> I understand BMC made this change to preserve customizations and introduced 
>> the concept of overlays but still its not convencing the customers.
>> 
>> Customers are not bothered about any customization and preservation as they 
>> have assigned a team to handle that. Only thing they care about is time, 
>> money and data.
>> 
>> This is one of the main reason some of my company clients moved to Service 
>> Now as they are offering zero down time upgrades with no risk of loosing 
>> customization.
>> 
>> There must be a debate on this, Remedy or ServiceNow.
>> 
>> Regards
>> JS
>> 
>> ___
>> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org
>> "Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years"
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> John Sundberg
> 
> Kinetic Data, Inc.
> "Your Business. Your Process."
> 
> 651-556-0930 I john.sundb...@kineticdata.com 
> www.kineticdata.com I community.kineticdata.com 
> 
> 
> _ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are" and have been for 20 years_

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Re: BMC should have made upgrades easier - Customers loosing interests

[stephen leith]

You get two instances with Servicenow so you can tweak one while running the 
other

Kind regards.

Stephen Leith

> On 10 Mar 2014, at 19:36, "Richter, Howard (CEI - Atlanta)" 
>  wrote:
> 
> **
> I know we are talking about Remedy vs ServiceNow, what about other large apps 
> like PeopleSoft or SAP.
>  
> Not one to defend the BMC upgrade process, but as we know customization or 
> integrations always throw a wrench in to any upgrade.
>  
> I do wonder how the zero downtime upgrade works with customizations or 
> integrations that might need to be tuned.
>  
> Just saying…..
>  
> hbr
>  
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of John Sundberg
> Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 3:27 PM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: [arslist] BMC should have made upgrades easier - Customers 
> loosing interests
>  
> **
> A debate would be good.
>  
> But I doubt you could you find anybody to defend the BMC approach.
>  
> Debate is now done.
>  
>  
> -John
>  
>  
>  
>  
> 
> On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 2:24 PM, James Smith  
> wrote:
> Hi List,
> 
> BMC made the upgrade process so complex that customer are scared to upgrade 
> to new versions. Upgrade is eating almost a year to move to 8.1 with data 
> migrations and all integrations.
> 
> In the past we used to upgrade on the existing server only which was easy but 
> there was a risk in loosing a customization. But that was easy process and we 
> need not had to bother about data migrations here. In upgrade data migration 
> is something like a challenging thing.
> 
> I understand BMC made this change to preserve customizations and introduced 
> the concept of overlays but still its not convencing the customers.
> 
> Customers are not bothered about any customization and preservation as they 
> have assigned a team to handle that. Only thing they care about is time, 
> money and data.
> 
> This is one of the main reason some of my company clients moved to Service 
> Now as they are offering zero down time upgrades with no risk of loosing 
> customization.
> 
> There must be a debate on this, Remedy or ServiceNow.
> 
> Regards
> JS
> 
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org
> "Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years"
> 
> 
>  
> --
> John Sundberg
> 
> Kinetic Data, Inc.
> "Your Business. Your Process."
>  
> 651-556-0930 I john.sundb...@kineticdata.com 
> www.kineticdata.com I community.kineticdata.com 
>  
>  
> _ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are" and have been for 20 years_
> 
> Click here to report this email as spam.
> 
> _ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are" and have been for 20 years_

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Oracle DB upgrade 11.2.0.4 - Ultra Search?

[Hodgdon, Paul]

We are upgrading our Oracle DB to 11.2.0.4.  Does anyone know if Remedy uses 
Ultra Search?  It doesn't look like it is supported in 11.2, so we just want to 
be sure nothing breaks on the ITSM side.

Thanks,
Paul

[Description: Description: Description: cid:image001.png@01CB1CFE.724B27B0]
IT Accounts & ITSM Applications Manager
University of New Hampshire
Client Services
Primary: (603) 862-2377
Alternate: (603) 862-4242
paul.hodg...@unh.edu
http://accounts.unh.edu


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<>

Service Request Management Demo Data for 8.1?

[Richter, Howard (CEI - Atlanta)]

Morning all,

Does anyone know if there is a set of Service Request Management Demo Data for 
8.1?

Thanks,

Howard


[Description: Description: Description: Cox Enterprises, 
Inc]
Howard Richter, Remedy Administrator
6205 Peachtree Dunwoody Road, Atlanta, GA 30328-4524
Email = howard.rich...@coxinc.com
Office = 678.645.4633, Cell = 404.226.2745
Cox Innovation Agent (CIA)
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<><><><>

Re: BMC should have made upgrades easier - Customers loosing interests

[James Smith]

They have two instances at database layer but now sure about the application 
layer.They keep the backup on on secondary database on transactional basis. 

We can have that too in remedy. What makes you feel that BMC does not provide 
best ITSM solutions ? I feel it does.

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Re: BMC should have made upgrades easier - Customers loosing interests

[Pierson, Shawn]

With BMC having a much larger market share that's to be expected though isn't 
it?  Also, the companies I've seen that go BMC -> SNOW generally follow a 
pattern like this:

1) Company is on an old version of ARS with custom apps and an understaffed 
development team.
2) Company decides to try the latest release of BMC's ITSM, don't train their 
team or replace them with experienced ITSM administrators.
3) They get ITSM into production after a lot of pain and agony, with the ARS 
developer being unable to adapt to working with ITSM, and the owners of the 
ITSM processes not having an understanding of ITIL.
4) Service Now comes along with a canned sales script that exploits knowledge 
of the preceding failure and promises to make everything better, and makes an 
easy sale.

What happens next varies, because some people are happy with SNOW and stick 
with it.  In the scenario above, it's dangerous for SNOW as well because most 
likely they get rid of their Remedy resource who was probably the closest 
person to understanding the concepts of IT Service Management, or they try to 
put them on SNOW without proper training and guidance from an experienced SNOW 
consultant and while it works for a while, they are unable to do as much with 
it as the sales person promised.  As a result, they're just as likely to get 
upset at Service Now because things aren't magically happening perfectly after 
they spent all sorts of money and failed to deliver a second time.

What ITSM software vendors don't usually tell you is that software is tertiary. 
 If you have good processes and competent, experienced, well trained people 
first you could probably do ITSM with an Access database.  If you have bad 
processes, or incompetent, untrained staff, you could spend millions on an ITSM 
solution and it still won't work.  I've seen companies flail around going from 
custom ARS applications to SNOW to ITSM and still look for something new to go 
to because it's a lot easier to replace software than fix processes or educate 
and properly place your staff.  Nowhere that I've worked, mind you, but it does 
happen.  :-)

Thanks,

Shawn Pierson
Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer

-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of stephen leith
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 5:52 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: BMC should have made upgrades easier - Customers loosing interests

There aren't many moving from snow to bmc. It's more common the other way 
around.

Kind regards.

Stephen Leith

> On 10 Mar 2014, at 20:32, "James Smith"  wrote:
>
> I have seen the service now UI, they have everything on singe UI say user 
> access, import and export, workflow development. UI is mot attractive and its 
> very clumsy.
>
> Its very though for the non programmers to develop workflows or do 
> customizations as at some point you need to know java scripting.
>
> In remedy, customizations and integrations are very simple. You have a great 
> tool (Developer Studio) to do all customizations which is pretty cool and I 
> like it.
>
> But as I said customers dnt see this. As per the last two posts from shown 
> and jejus, it seems that upgrades are failing due to lack of knowlege of the 
> person doing things.
>
> I am eager to hear the stories of client who moved from SNow to Remedy.
>
> __
> _ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org
> "Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years"

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Re: BMC should have made upgrades easier - Customers loosing interests

[Richter, Howard (CEI - Atlanta)]

Shawn,

Well said.

hbr

-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Pierson, Shawn
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 9:22 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: [arslist] BMC should have made upgrades easier - Customers loosing 
interests

With BMC having a much larger market share that's to be expected though isn't 
it?  Also, the companies I've seen that go BMC -> SNOW generally follow a 
pattern like this:

1) Company is on an old version of ARS with custom apps and an understaffed 
development team.
2) Company decides to try the latest release of BMC's ITSM, don't train their 
team or replace them with experienced ITSM administrators.
3) They get ITSM into production after a lot of pain and agony, with the ARS 
developer being unable to adapt to working with ITSM, and the owners of the 
ITSM processes not having an understanding of ITIL.
4) Service Now comes along with a canned sales script that exploits knowledge 
of the preceding failure and promises to make everything better, and makes an 
easy sale.

What happens next varies, because some people are happy with SNOW and stick 
with it.  In the scenario above, it's dangerous for SNOW as well because most 
likely they get rid of their Remedy resource who was probably the closest 
person to understanding the concepts of IT Service Management, or they try to 
put them on SNOW without proper training and guidance from an experienced SNOW 
consultant and while it works for a while, they are unable to do as much with 
it as the sales person promised.  As a result, they're just as likely to get 
upset at Service Now because things aren't magically happening perfectly after 
they spent all sorts of money and failed to deliver a second time.

What ITSM software vendors don't usually tell you is that software is tertiary. 
 If you have good processes and competent, experienced, well trained people 
first you could probably do ITSM with an Access database.  If you have bad 
processes, or incompetent, untrained staff, you could spend millions on an ITSM 
solution and it still won't work.  I've seen companies flail around going from 
custom ARS applications to SNOW to ITSM and still look for something new to go 
to because it's a lot easier to replace software than fix processes or educate 
and properly place your staff.  Nowhere that I've worked, mind you, but it does 
happen.  :-)

Thanks,

Shawn Pierson
Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer

-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of stephen leith
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 5:52 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: BMC should have made upgrades easier - Customers loosing interests

There aren't many moving from snow to bmc. It's more common the other way 
around. 

Kind regards.

Stephen Leith

> On 10 Mar 2014, at 20:32, "James Smith"  wrote:
> 
> I have seen the service now UI, they have everything on singe UI say user 
> access, import and export, workflow development. UI is mot attractive and its 
> very clumsy.
> 
> Its very though for the non programmers to develop workflows or do 
> customizations as at some point you need to know java scripting.
> 
> In remedy, customizations and integrations are very simple. You have a great 
> tool (Developer Studio) to do all customizations which is pretty cool and I 
> like it.
> 
> But as I said customers dnt see this. As per the last two posts from shown 
> and jejus, it seems that upgrades are failing due to lack of knowlege of the 
> person doing things.
> 
> I am eager to hear the stories of client who moved from SNow to Remedy.
> 
> __
> _ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org 
> "Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years"

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Re: BMC should have made upgrades easier - Customers loosing interests

[Raj]

Very well said!

They say captain is as good as his team, well, your IT is as good as people who 
run it :)

-Raj

From: Pierson, Shawn-3 [via ARS (Action Request System)] 
[mailto:ml-node+s1n116108...@n7.nabble.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 18:52
To: Hiremath, Rajashekhar
Subject: Re: BMC should have made upgrades easier - Customers loosing interests

With BMC having a much larger market share that's to be expected though isn't 
it?  Also, the companies I've seen that go BMC -> SNOW generally follow a 
pattern like this:

1) Company is on an old version of ARS with custom apps and an understaffed 
development team.
2) Company decides to try the latest release of BMC's ITSM, don't train their 
team or replace them with experienced ITSM administrators.
3) They get ITSM into production after a lot of pain and agony, with the ARS 
developer being unable to adapt to working with ITSM, and the owners of the 
ITSM processes not having an understanding of ITIL.
4) Service Now comes along with a canned sales script that exploits knowledge 
of the preceding failure and promises to make everything better, and makes an 
easy sale.

What happens next varies, because some people are happy with SNOW and stick 
with it.  In the scenario above, it's dangerous for SNOW as well because most 
likely they get rid of their Remedy resource who was probably the closest 
person to understanding the concepts of IT Service Management, or they try to 
put them on SNOW without proper training and guidance from an experienced SNOW 
consultant and while it works for a while, they are unable to do as much with 
it as the sales person promised.  As a result, they're just as likely to get 
upset at Service Now because things aren't magically happening perfectly after 
they spent all sorts of money and failed to deliver a second time.

What ITSM software vendors don't usually tell you is that software is tertiary. 
 If you have good processes and competent, experienced, well trained people 
first you could probably do ITSM with an Access database.  If you have bad 
processes, or incompetent, untrained staff, you could spend millions on an ITSM 
solution and it still won't work.  I've seen companies flail around going from 
custom ARS applications to SNOW to ITSM and still look for something new to go 
to because it's a lot easier to replace software than fix processes or educate 
and properly place your staff.  Nowhere that I've worked, mind you, but it does 
happen.  :-)

Thanks,

Shawn Pierson
Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer

-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[hidden 
email]] On Behalf Of stephen 
leith
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 5:52 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: BMC should have made upgrades easier - Customers loosing interests

There aren't many moving from snow to bmc. It's more common the other way 
around.

Kind regards.

Stephen Leith

> On 10 Mar 2014, at 20:32, "James Smith" <[hidden 
> email]> wrote:
>
> I have seen the service now UI, they have everything on singe UI say user 
> access, import and export, workflow development. UI is mot attractive and its 
> very clumsy.
>
> Its very though for the non programmers to develop workflows or do 
> customizations as at some point you need to know java scripting.
>
> In remedy, customizations and integrations are very simple. You have a great 
> tool (Developer Studio) to do all customizations which is pretty cool and I 
> like it.
>
> But as I said customers dnt see this. As per the last two posts from shown 
> and jejus, it seems that upgrades are failing due to lack of knowlege of the 
> person doing things.
>
> I am eager to hear the stories of client who moved from SNow to Remedy.
>
> __
> _ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at 
> www.arslist.org
> "Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years"

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Re: Host ID issue in NLB

[Hristo Ninov]

Hi Sumit,

I think this is not your case - but is it possible that you have somewhere 
hidden network adapter?
I have seen mismatch of HostId/Mac Address and the reason was this.

http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/windowsserver/en-US/da6f6847-5e1a-4b73-9f33-98e8cbddf451/ghosthidden-network-interfaces

Best Regards,
Hristo

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Re: BMC should have made upgrades easier - Customers loosing interests

[Ortega, Jesus A]

Very nicely said, Shawn.

I worked in a place where the Remedy ITSM system was not properly staffed and 
was having several outages on a daily basis.  A lot of money had been invested 
into the system and the results were not what they expected. When I joined that 
company, I was given notice that they were considering HP's ITSM as a 
replacement if I didn't get current system fixed ASAP. I explained that they 
simply had a resource issue and that their strategy was like replacing a 
detuned Mercedes Benz with a Yugo. Did they want a piece of junk or the finest 
automobile on the market? I told them that they just needed a good mechanic to 
fix their Benz, which is what happened. A lack of proper resources was the main 
issue, not the application itself. 

-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Pierson, Shawn
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 8:22 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: BMC should have made upgrades easier - Customers loosing interests

With BMC having a much larger market share that's to be expected though isn't 
it?  Also, the companies I've seen that go BMC -> SNOW generally follow a 
pattern like this:

1) Company is on an old version of ARS with custom apps and an understaffed 
development team.
2) Company decides to try the latest release of BMC's ITSM, don't train their 
team or replace them with experienced ITSM administrators.
3) They get ITSM into production after a lot of pain and agony, with the ARS 
developer being unable to adapt to working with ITSM, and the owners of the 
ITSM processes not having an understanding of ITIL.
4) Service Now comes along with a canned sales script that exploits knowledge 
of the preceding failure and promises to make everything better, and makes an 
easy sale.

What happens next varies, because some people are happy with SNOW and stick 
with it.  In the scenario above, it's dangerous for SNOW as well because most 
likely they get rid of their Remedy resource who was probably the closest 
person to understanding the concepts of IT Service Management, or they try to 
put them on SNOW without proper training and guidance from an experienced SNOW 
consultant and while it works for a while, they are unable to do as much with 
it as the sales person promised.  As a result, they're just as likely to get 
upset at Service Now because things aren't magically happening perfectly after 
they spent all sorts of money and failed to deliver a second time.

What ITSM software vendors don't usually tell you is that software is tertiary. 
 If you have good processes and competent, experienced, well trained people 
first you could probably do ITSM with an Access database.  If you have bad 
processes, or incompetent, untrained staff, you could spend millions on an ITSM 
solution and it still won't work.  I've seen companies flail around going from 
custom ARS applications to SNOW to ITSM and still look for something new to go 
to because it's a lot easier to replace software than fix processes or educate 
and properly place your staff.  Nowhere that I've worked, mind you, but it does 
happen.  :-)

Thanks,

Shawn Pierson
Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer

-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of stephen leith
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 5:52 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: BMC should have made upgrades easier - Customers loosing interests

There aren't many moving from snow to bmc. It's more common the other way 
around. 

Kind regards.

Stephen Leith

> On 10 Mar 2014, at 20:32, "James Smith"  wrote:
> 
> I have seen the service now UI, they have everything on singe UI say user 
> access, import and export, workflow development. UI is mot attractive and its 
> very clumsy.
> 
> Its very though for the non programmers to develop workflows or do 
> customizations as at some point you need to know java scripting.
> 
> In remedy, customizations and integrations are very simple. You have a great 
> tool (Developer Studio) to do all customizations which is pretty cool and I 
> like it.
> 
> But as I said customers dnt see this. As per the last two posts from shown 
> and jejus, it seems that upgrades are failing due to lack of knowlege of the 
> person doing things.
> 
> I am eager to hear the stories of client who moved from SNow to Remedy.
> 
> __
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Re: BMC should have made upgrades easier - Customers loosing interests

[Richter, Howard (CEI - Atlanta)]

All,

The common theme here is getting the correct resources to install and then 
maintain the system.

Too many times (as Jesus said), the company buys a Mercedes Benz and then uses 
a Yugo mechanic and parts to keep it going.

Then companies like Service Now, finds its opening to replace ITSM.

However, there is someone that can help. That is BMC. 

They need to give us better tools (i.e. better support, training that is worth 
it), more and better upgrade paths, mini training VMs (with time bombs) so the 
community can do a little playing with a new release and therefor to look more 
intelligent to our customers and documentation that is easy to get to (maybe 
there could be an app for that).

Also one additional note on the training, why is it not released before the 
product?? It comes out months after the release and at times after a dot 
release that is then not covered. 

Once again by making the Remedy Technologist look bad or uninformed and BMC 
give more ammo to company's like Service Now, when its community has no 
knowledge on upgrades or new products.

Just my thoughts and not worth the penny they cost,

Howard 

-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Ortega, Jesus A
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 10:18 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: [arslist] BMC should have made upgrades easier - Customers loosing 
interests

Very nicely said, Shawn.

I worked in a place where the Remedy ITSM system was not properly staffed and 
was having several outages on a daily basis.  A lot of money had been invested 
into the system and the results were not what they expected. When I joined that 
company, I was given notice that they were considering HP's ITSM as a 
replacement if I didn't get current system fixed ASAP. I explained that they 
simply had a resource issue and that their strategy was like replacing a 
detuned Mercedes Benz with a Yugo. Did they want a piece of junk or the finest 
automobile on the market? I told them that they just needed a good mechanic to 
fix their Benz, which is what happened. A lack of proper resources was the main 
issue, not the application itself. 

-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Pierson, Shawn
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 8:22 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: BMC should have made upgrades easier - Customers loosing interests

With BMC having a much larger market share that's to be expected though isn't 
it?  Also, the companies I've seen that go BMC -> SNOW generally follow a 
pattern like this:

1) Company is on an old version of ARS with custom apps and an understaffed 
development team.
2) Company decides to try the latest release of BMC's ITSM, don't train their 
team or replace them with experienced ITSM administrators.
3) They get ITSM into production after a lot of pain and agony, with the ARS 
developer being unable to adapt to working with ITSM, and the owners of the 
ITSM processes not having an understanding of ITIL.
4) Service Now comes along with a canned sales script that exploits knowledge 
of the preceding failure and promises to make everything better, and makes an 
easy sale.

What happens next varies, because some people are happy with SNOW and stick 
with it.  In the scenario above, it's dangerous for SNOW as well because most 
likely they get rid of their Remedy resource who was probably the closest 
person to understanding the concepts of IT Service Management, or they try to 
put them on SNOW without proper training and guidance from an experienced SNOW 
consultant and while it works for a while, they are unable to do as much with 
it as the sales person promised.  As a result, they're just as likely to get 
upset at Service Now because things aren't magically happening perfectly after 
they spent all sorts of money and failed to deliver a second time.

What ITSM software vendors don't usually tell you is that software is tertiary. 
 If you have good processes and competent, experienced, well trained people 
first you could probably do ITSM with an Access database.  If you have bad 
processes, or incompetent, untrained staff, you could spend millions on an ITSM 
solution and it still won't work.  I've seen companies flail around going from 
custom ARS applications to SNOW to ITSM and still look for something new to go 
to because it's a lot easier to replace software than fix processes or educate 
and properly place your staff.  Nowhere that I've worked, mind you, but it does 
happen.  :-)

Thanks,

Shawn Pierson
Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer

-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of stephen leith
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 5:52 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: BMC should have made upgrades easier - Customers loosing interests

There aren't many moving from snow to bmc. I

Re: BMC should have made upgrades easier - Customers loosing interests

[James Smith]

I agree. Bad resources lead to the failure of projects.

I got some link which shows pitfalls in service now

 
http://seekingalpha.com/article/961-after-interviewing-more-industry-insiders-i-am-even-more-bearish-on-servicenow

Worth reading

___
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Re: Row-Level Security on HPD:Help Desk

[Pierson, Shawn]

I wanted to give a quick update on this.  I'm currently testing it.  I created 
a field I called ReadOnlyGroups with Field ID 60710 and set the default of that 
field to be ";-10;" so it will pick up the Unrestricted Access group by 
default.  I also created a radio button called Confidential that when checked 
will clear out the ReadOnlyGroups field.  However, upon further investigation, 
it looks like the Customer's company group id goes into Assignee Groups (112) 
and the Support Group Company group id goes into Vendor Assignee Groups 
(60900).  As a result, they are still visible to people in those organizations, 
which unfortunately is too many.  If I clear those two fields out as well, then 
nobody other than administrators can see it.  That surprised me a bit because I 
would have thought the Assignee Groups field would have been used to actually 
track assignee groups.  I'm not really able to see where the specific group is 
being tracked in such a way that would be used to drive permissions.  For 
example, the Assigned Group ID and the Owner Group ID fields are there, but 
storing the Entry ID field rather than the group id.  As a result, it looks 
like they aren't using Group security for actually securing the Incidents.

My next step is to create a ReadWriteGroups field with a Field ID of 60715 that 
I can then move the General Access role to by defaulting it to ";-2;", 
remove that role from having access to the Entry ID and add the ReadWriteGroups 
dynamic group to that and see if that makes a difference.  At that point, I can 
also see about adding the actual groups tied to the Support Groups to this 
field as a part of my workflow.  I also need to investigate some workflow that 
is broken by doing this.  Specifically, the active links to make the record 
read only and display the warning on the banner instead of the process flow bar 
aren't working.  However, users that don't have write access still can't get to 
the record.

Does anyone know of anything else I should look at, specifically any other 
fields on HPD:Help Desk that might need to be taken into consideration so I can 
ensure that the Assigned Group are the only ones (other than Remedy admins) who 
have access to the Incident?

Thanks,

Shawn Pierson
Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Jason Miller
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 5:33 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Row-Level Security on HPD:Help Desk

**

That is loosely what I did years ago adding row level permissions to ITSM 6.  
This probably isn't as scary of a customization as it appears at first glance. 
One thing to consider are permissions to related records. Not only 
relationships to incidents, changes, work orders (you may never even relate any 
of those to confidential tickets) but to tasks and probably more importantly 
work info records.  Those are searchable and will not be restricted unless to 
modify them to fit your permissions scheme as well.

Or...

You created a filter that fires on get that checks if the ticket is 
confidential and referencing the groups that are allowed to see confidential 
requests and throw an error if the don't have access. This also works for all 
clients (ARODBC, Web services, import tool, Migrator) like permission do.

I think permissions provides for a better experience and scalability but a 
filter avoids changing the out of the box permissions model. For example if a 
person runs a report and a confidential record they don't have access to is in 
the results *I think* they will not be a able to run the report until the 
confidential records are no long in the results.

Jason
On Mar 7, 2014 9:22 AM, "Pierson, Shawn" 
mailto:shawn.pier...@energytransfer.com>> 
wrote:
**
I think I've come up with a plan but it's a bit of a scary idea to monkey 
around with permissions on ITSM forms in this way.

- I'm going to remove the "Unrestricted Access" Role from the Request ID field 
on HPD:Help Desk.
- Then I'll create a custom field to take its place, let's say 60701, which I 
will create a Dynamic Group for that I can have the "Unrestricted Access" Role 
be put into as a default.
- I'll add a Radio button called "Confidential" on the HPD:Help Desk form, 
which will have workflow to set fields 60701 and 112 automatically to $NULL$ if 
the Confidential button is checked.  If it is unchecked, I'll set 60701 to the 
"Unrestricted Access" Role, and field 112 to the Regular Group where the Long 
Group name is the same as the company on the Customer+.
- Look for any workflow that sets these fields and find some way to override 
them when the Confidential radio button is checked.

Is there a better supported way to do this?

Thanks,

Shawn Pierson
Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer

From: Pierson, Shawn
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 9:30 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Row-Level Security on HPD:Help Desk

G

Re: BMC should have made upgrades easier - Customers loosing interests

[Brittain, Mark]

Great debate here and have a thought on education.  If BMC offered the 
Using (WBT) courses for free or under some kind of site license agreement, 
maybe under your support ID, that would be huge in winning over management and 
users. Even a scaled down version that covers most of the first use issues 
would be better than nothing. Sure there is cost with creating one of these 
courses but the ROI from lower churn would even that out. The downside would be 
having users that might know more than we do on a particular application or 
feature.

Mark

-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of James Smith
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 11:32 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: BMC should have made upgrades easier - Customers loosing interests

I agree. Bad resources lead to the failure of projects.

I got some link which shows pitfalls in service now

 
http://seekingalpha.com/article/961-after-interviewing-more-industry-insiders-i-am-even-more-bearish-on-servicenow

Worth reading

___
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Are, and have been for 20 years"

This E-mail and any of its attachments may contain Time Warner Cable 
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Re: BMC should have made upgrades easier - Customers loosing interests

[Richter, Howard (CEI - Atlanta)]

This debate can go on for week, however, Mark you reminded me of something that 
I see happing and at times BMC sales is the root cause.

A number of times, BMC sales will meet with the companies Managment and provide 
information that might be too good. Without the companies (or even a BMC) 
technical resource in the room. Then us on the technical side must come up to 
speed (on our own) or debunk, the info that was passed on to the Management 
team. Those conversations never go well. 

Instead of partnering with the technical resource in a company, BMC at times 
seems to circumvent this powerful resource. 

I am not sure if it's on propose or just a matter of timing, however, it 
does/is happing.

I wonder why the technical side of the sales team is not reaching out to the 
technical side of our world. That reaching out would be key to success of any 
project or upgrade. 

As we have been saying without us, the customers will find another product.

Howard

-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Brittain, Mark
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 12:56 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: [arslist] BMC should have made upgrades easier - Customers loosing 
interests

Great debate here and have a thought on education.  If BMC offered the 
Using (WBT) courses for free or under some kind of site license agreement, 
maybe under your support ID, that would be huge in winning over management and 
users. Even a scaled down version that covers most of the first use issues 
would be better than nothing. Sure there is cost with creating one of these 
courses but the ROI from lower churn would even that out. The downside would be 
having users that might know more than we do on a particular application or 
feature.

Mark

-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of James Smith
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 11:32 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: BMC should have made upgrades easier - Customers loosing interests

I agree. Bad resources lead to the failure of projects.

I got some link which shows pitfalls in service now

 
http://seekingalpha.com/article/961-after-interviewing-more-industry-insiders-i-am-even-more-bearish-on-servicenow

Worth reading

___
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Are, and have been for 20 years"

This E-mail and any of its attachments may contain Time Warner Cable 
proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject to 
copyright belonging to Time Warner Cable. This E-mail is intended solely for 
the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not 
the intended recipient of this E-mail, you are hereby notified that any 
dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken in relation to the 
contents of and attachments to this E-mail is strictly prohibited and may be 
unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender 
immediately and permanently delete the original and any copy of this E-mail and 
any printout.

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Re: BMC should have made upgrades easier - Customers loosing interests

[Charlie Lotridge]

I don't really have the time for this, but let me jump into the fray with a
few somewhat related but disparate points of my own...

First, with regard to the "bad resources" issue, I've been seeing pattern
for years.  On three separate occasions in my career as a Remedy Developer
contractor, I've been brought in by clients who had a custom
Remedy application which were in varying degrees of being train wrecks.
 The types of problems included extremely poor data architecture, hundreds
of forms and many with no use (and names such as "Test" *in production*),
thousands of workflow objects with no use and no useful naming conventions,
escalations spinning out of control, etc.  In two cases I was able to
"tame" the systems, but in one case it was so bad I outright refused to
even try (I suggested they either find another resource or allow me to
build a new system from scratch..fortunately they chose the latter).

I came to realize that there were two main factors that had enabled these
situations.  First, the fact that the Remedy ARS system makes it so easy to
perform development operations - create forms, create workflow that does
useful things, etc. - that many people who have no business architecting
and developing applications where doing just that.  In candid conversations
with clients, I've describe this situation by saying that "any idiot can
develop in Remedy, and unfortunately many of them do".

This was compound by second factor, which is (was) the confusion Remedy
themselves created in the early days by collapsing the notions of
"administrator" and "developer".  When I was originally taught to use
Remedy, the topics about how to install & configure Remedy were taught
right along side the topics about how to create forms and workflow.  The
documentation largely followed suit.  In fact it's only relatively recently
that the main development tool actually has the word "develop" in its name
and is *not *the (BMC) Remedy *Administrator*.

So these Remedy administrators - people who perhaps had the background to
understand and been taught to perform actual administrative tasks - were
then asked to implement changes to the system because, in everyone's mind,
the notion of "Remedy administration" naturally extended to performing such
changes.  These people then go on to create a few forms and some workflow
successfully.  They created their Customer form and they created their
Inventory form and some workflow around all of this.  And, at first,
everyone's happy because they were able to get this done so quickly.  Time
goes on and they're repeatedly asked to extend the system, and for a while
everyone remains happy.

What happens next (which is what happened in each of those three "train
wreck" systems I've described) is that at some point the system grows
beyond the "developer's" ability to manage.  In my experience it seems to
happen somewhere around a few tens of forms and perhaps a few hundred logic
objects.  In all cases by the time I was brought in the original developers
were gone, but my own forensic analysis of those systems suggested to me
that at this point in the growth of the application the original developer
was no longer able to fully comprehend what was going on.  Before this
point they were able to keep it all in there head and knew where to find
things, but at this point the system just became too large for this
approach, and their lack of skill and coding discipline (e.g. good naming
conventions) meant they had no other recourse.  Problems (bugs) would occur
but the developer was unable to debug the problem.  And instead of
identifying and correcting the root cause (which in many cases were due to
fundamental problems with the data architecture), the developer would add a
"patch" to fix the problem: e.g. the client expected the result to be 100,
so they add a filter to set it to 100 at the end.

So instead of *reducing *the problem set, these developers actually
expanded it.  This pattern would continue for a while until the momentum of
the system eventually ground to a halt, leaving a barely functioning system
on which no one present could implement any changes for fear of making it
worse and the client complaining loudly that none of their changes, even
simple ones, were not being done.  I've only been occasionally or
peripherally involved with the canned apps - what's ITSM now, and what were
the component apps (e.g. Help Desk) a long time ago - but from what I've
seen the pattern there was similar: people with administrator level skills
at best were asked to implement changes, and for the same reasons
eventually reducing the system to being unchangeable and largely unusable.
 And the nearly indelible feeling that everyone - the users and management
understandably, and even some of these so-called "developers" (not so
understandably) - takes away from this experience is that "Remedy sucks".

Does this sound familiar?

It's all really unfortunately because the problem of course has nothing

BMC should have made upgrades easier - Customers loosing interests

[John Baker]

Hello

I can state that JSS loses customers because they move from BMC to
elsewhere. When a customer doesn't renew support, I make a point of
asking them why and it's almost always because the BMC platform has been
canned. But SNOW isn't always the destination of choice. There have been
a few cases of a customer taking their SSO Plugin for BMC license to
their shiny new HP ITSM system, ie one problem solved and the migration
effort reduced.

BMC have no interest in AR System beyond ITSM, that much has been
obvious for years and to be fair, it makes good business sense. The
world is full of easy to use programming languages and workflow style
products, so why try to compete with low cost/free solutions? What
puzzles me is why AR System still exists given the numerous issues
reported to this list - why hasn't BMC bitten the bullet and gotten rid
of the parts not already written in Flash? I'm not suggesting it's a
smart option, because customising ITSM is a useful sales point, but it's
easy to script Python and modern, transactional database technology is
available for free.

I used SNOW the other day. I selected a category and waited for workflow
to fire - it reminded me of Mid Tier 5.1, ie abysmal performance. It's
not all that great, but sadly, neither is the ITSM installation process.


John

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Re: Row-Level Security on HPD:Help Desk

[Pierson, Shawn]

One more update for today since some people have emailed me off list with 
interest in what I'm doing.

What I ended up doing so far is this:

1)  Create a custom character field on HPD:Help Desk called ReadOnlyGroups 
(FID 60710) to store a default of ";-10;" to be able to handle 
Unrestricted Access permissions.

2)  Create a custom radio button on HPD:Help Desk called Confidential that 
functions as a flag.

3)  Create a filter that executes upon submit or modify when the 
Confidential flag is set for the first time or the Confidential flag is set and 
the group assignment changes.

a.   This does a Set Fields from CTM:SYS-Access Permission Grps which sets 
the Vendor Assignee Groups and Assignee Groups fields on HPD:Help Desk to the 
Permission Group ID field on CTM:SYS-Access Permission Grps where the Support 
Group ID field on HPD:Help Desk matches the Assigned Group ID field from 
CTM:SYS-Access Permission.

4)  Create a filter that executes upon modify when the database version of 
the Confidential flag was checked, and the transactional version is unchecked.

a.   This does a Set Fields from CTM:SYS-Access Permission Grps which sets 
the Vendor Assignee Groups field to Permission Group ID where the Assigned 
Support Company = Navigation Menu01.

b.  It Sets the ReadOnlyGroup field back to ";-10;".

c.   It also does a Set Fields from CTM:SYS-Access Permission Grps which 
sets the Assignee Groups field to Permission Group ID where the (Customer's) 
Company = Navigation Menu01.

Unfortunately, I've broken a few things, so I may have to change how this works 
to get it working right.  One of these things has resulted in the Assigned 
Group*+ and Assignee+ fields not working for normal users anymore, not just on 
confidential Incidents but in general.  It also looks like it's broken some of 
the Active Links that handle normal security.  I'm hoping these are easy to 
resolve, but it's too soon to say and I'll probably stop working on it for the 
day.

Thanks,

Shawn Pierson
Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer

From: Pierson, Shawn
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 10:42 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: RE: Row-Level Security on HPD:Help Desk

I wanted to give a quick update on this.  I'm currently testing it.  I created 
a field I called ReadOnlyGroups with Field ID 60710 and set the default of that 
field to be ";-10;" so it will pick up the Unrestricted Access group by 
default.  I also created a radio button called Confidential that when checked 
will clear out the ReadOnlyGroups field.  However, upon further investigation, 
it looks like the Customer's company group id goes into Assignee Groups (112) 
and the Support Group Company group id goes into Vendor Assignee Groups 
(60900).  As a result, they are still visible to people in those organizations, 
which unfortunately is too many.  If I clear those two fields out as well, then 
nobody other than administrators can see it.  That surprised me a bit because I 
would have thought the Assignee Groups field would have been used to actually 
track assignee groups.  I'm not really able to see where the specific group is 
being tracked in such a way that would be used to drive permissions.  For 
example, the Assigned Group ID and the Owner Group ID fields are there, but 
storing the Entry ID field rather than the group id.  As a result, it looks 
like they aren't using Group security for actually securing the Incidents.

My next step is to create a ReadWriteGroups field with a Field ID of 60715 that 
I can then move the General Access role to by defaulting it to ";-2;", 
remove that role from having access to the Entry ID and add the ReadWriteGroups 
dynamic group to that and see if that makes a difference.  At that point, I can 
also see about adding the actual groups tied to the Support Groups to this 
field as a part of my workflow.  I also need to investigate some workflow that 
is broken by doing this.  Specifically, the active links to make the record 
read only and display the warning on the banner instead of the process flow bar 
aren't working.  However, users that don't have write access still can't get to 
the record.

Does anyone know of anything else I should look at, specifically any other 
fields on HPD:Help Desk that might need to be taken into consideration so I can 
ensure that the Assigned Group are the only ones (other than Remedy admins) who 
have access to the Incident?

Thanks,

Shawn Pierson
Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Jason Miller
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 5:33 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Row-Level Security on HPD:Help Desk

**

That is loosely what I did years ago adding row level permissions to ITSM 6.  
This probably isn't as scary of a customization as it appears at first glance. 
One thing to consider are permissions to related records. Not only 
re

Mid Tier 8.1.01 Timeouts

[Lippincott, Levi (OMA-GIS)]

Has anyone ran into the issue where their users are timing out after an 
extremely low amount of time from the Mid Tier? This is even happening to some 
of our Fixed license users. They are getting session invalid errors after 
sometimes as little as 10 minutes.

[Description: Description: cid:411C7191-C84A-4BC4-84A6-03A2A02A75D5]





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Interpublic Group  6825 Pine Street, Omaha, NE 68106


"Talent is a Gift; But Character is a Choice." -Matt Grotewold-

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<><><>

Re: Mid Tier 8.1.01 Timeouts

[Hennigan, Sandra]

Does security have an application timeout?

Thank you,

Sandra Hennigan
Remedy Developer

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Lippincott, Levi (OMA-GIS)
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 4:26 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Mid Tier 8.1.01 Timeouts

**
Has anyone ran into the issue where their users are timing out after an 
extremely low amount of time from the Mid Tier? This is even happening to some 
of our Fixed license users. They are getting session invalid errors after 
sometimes as little as 10 minutes.

[Description: Description: cid:411C7191-C84A-4BC4-84A6-03A2A02A75D5]





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Levi Lippincott / Remedy Administrator
+1 402 561 7014 office
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Interpublic Group  6825 Pine Street, Omaha, NE 68106


"Talent is a Gift; But Character is a Choice." -Matt Grotewold-


This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. 
Unless you are the intended recipient (or authorized to receive this message 
for the intended recipient), you may not use, copy, disseminate or disclose to 
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<><><>

Re: Mid Tier 8.1.01 Timeouts

[Dale Jones]

Describe your environment (Load balancers?? or SSO??)

I recently had a 8.1.01 customer with Java SSO (Single Sign On) where we had to 
increase the Java SSO time deviation.

We were getting the following error in the Plugin Logs
Too much deviation between the token timestamp and the system time.

Once we increased the Deviation parameter the timeout issues stopped.

Take Care

Dale Jones
DCS
Raleigh, NC
919-523-6034

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] on 
behalf of Hennigan, Sandra [sandra.henni...@usdoj.gov]
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 4:33 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Mid Tier 8.1.01 Timeouts

**
Does security have an application timeout?

Thank you,

Sandra Hennigan
Remedy Developer

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Lippincott, Levi (OMA-GIS)
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 4:26 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Mid Tier 8.1.01 Timeouts

**
Has anyone ran into the issue where their users are timing out after an 
extremely low amount of time from the Mid Tier? This is even happening to some 
of our Fixed license users. They are getting session invalid errors after 
sometimes as little as 10 minutes.

[Description: Description: cid:411C7191-C84A-4BC4-84A6-03A2A02A75D5]





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Levi Lippincott / Remedy Administrator
+1 402 561 7014 office
+1 402 321 5421 mobile
levi.lippinc...@interpublic.com
Lync Communcator





Interpublic Group  6825 Pine Street, Omaha, NE 68106


"Talent is a Gift; But Character is a Choice." -Matt Grotewold-


This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. 
Unless you are the intended recipient (or authorized to receive this message 
for the intended recipient), you may not use, copy, disseminate or disclose to 
anyone the message or any information contained in the message.  If you have 
received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail, and 
delete the message.  Thank you very much.
_ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are" and have been for 20 years_
_ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are" and have been for 20 years_

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<><><>

Re: Mid Tier 8.1.01 Timeouts

[Roney Samuel Varghese.]

Do you have single sign on? If you do check if users are connected to two 
environments at once. Some of the SSO solutions don't like this and times out 
users based on their logged in environments. You can alternatively check the 
tomcat and midtier timeout parameters. 

Regards,
Roney Samuel Varghese. 
Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 11, 2014, at 3:25 PM, "Lippincott, Levi (OMA-GIS)" 
>  wrote:
> 
> **
> Has anyone ran into the issue where their users are timing out after an 
> extremely low amount of time from the Mid Tier? This is even happening to 
> some of our Fixed license users. They are getting session invalid errors 
> after sometimes as little as 10 minutes.
>  
> 
> 
> 
> Connect with us:interpublic.com
> Twitter
> Facebook
> 
> Levi Lippincott / Remedy Administrator
> +1 402 561 7014 office
> +1 402 321 5421 mobile
> levi.lippinc...@interpublic.com
> Lync Communcator
> 
> Interpublic Group  6825 Pine Street, Omaha, NE 68106
>  
> "Talent is a Gift; But Character is a Choice." -Matt Grotewold-
>  
> This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. 
> Unless you are the intended recipient (or authorized to receive this message 
> for the intended recipient), you may not use, copy, disseminate or disclose 
> to anyone the message or any information contained in the message.  If you 
> have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail, 
> and delete the message.  Thank you very much.
> 
> _ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are" and have been for 20 years_

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Re: Mid Tier 8.1.01 Timeouts

[Lippincott, Levi (OMA-GIS)]

Our Mid Tier is configured for the 90 minute default timeout with a 300 second 
license release. We went into our Tomcat settings and made its timeout 92 min 
just to ensure the settings in the Mid Tier are not being overrode by the 
Tomcat settings. Yet we have some users with Fixed licenses, who do not have a 
User Preference for Timeout configured, that are getting session inactive 
errors after sometimes as low as 10 minutes.

Was there another security setting you were wanting me to give details on?

Levi Lippincott / Remedy Administrator

+1 402 561 7014 office
+1 402 321 5421 mobile
levi.lippinc...@interpublic.com

Interpublic Group  6825 Pine Street, Omaha, NE 68106

"Talent is a Gift; But Character is a Choice." -Matt Grotewold-

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Hennigan, Sandra
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 3:34 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Mid Tier 8.1.01 Timeouts

**
Does security have an application timeout?

Thank you,

Sandra Hennigan
Remedy Developer

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Lippincott, Levi (OMA-GIS)
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 4:26 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Mid Tier 8.1.01 Timeouts

**
Has anyone ran into the issue where their users are timing out after an 
extremely low amount of time from the Mid Tier? This is even happening to some 
of our Fixed license users. They are getting session invalid errors after 
sometimes as little as 10 minutes.

[Description: Description: cid:411C7191-C84A-4BC4-84A6-03A2A02A75D5]





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Levi Lippincott / Remedy Administrator
+1 402 561 7014 office
+1 402 321 5421 mobile
levi.lippinc...@interpublic.com
Lync Communcator





Interpublic Group  6825 Pine Street, Omaha, NE 68106


"Talent is a Gift; But Character is a Choice." -Matt Grotewold-


This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. 
Unless you are the intended recipient (or authorized to receive this message 
for the intended recipient), you may not use, copy, disseminate or disclose to 
anyone the message or any information contained in the message.  If you have 
received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail, and 
delete the message.  Thank you very much.
_ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are" and have been for 20 years_
_ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are" and have been for 20 years_

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"Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years"
<><><>

Re: Mid Tier 8.1.01 Timeouts

[LJ LongWing]

Levi,
As pointed out, are you using a Load Balancer?  Do you have sticky bits
(session affinity) set?  What is the timeout on that?


On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 2:43 PM, Lippincott, Levi (OMA-GIS) <
levi.lippinc...@interpublic.com> wrote:

> **
>
> Our Mid Tier is configured for the 90 minute default timeout with a 300
> second license release. We went into our Tomcat settings and made its
> timeout 92 min just to ensure the settings in the Mid Tier are not being
> overrode by the Tomcat settings. Yet we have some users with Fixed
> licenses, who do not have a User Preference for Timeout configured, that
> are getting session inactive errors after sometimes as low as 10 minutes.
>
>
>
> Was there another security setting you were wanting me to give details on?
>
>
>
> *Levi Lippincott / *Remedy Administrator
>
>
>
> +1 402 561 7014 office
>
> +1 402 321 5421 mobile
>
> levi.lippinc...@interpublic.com
>
>
>
> *Interpublic Group*  6825 Pine Street, Omaha, NE 68106
>
>
>
> *"Talent is a Gift; But Character is a Choice." -Matt Grotewold-*
>
>
>
> *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:
> arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] *On Behalf Of *Hennigan, Sandra
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 11, 2014 3:34 PM
> *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> *Subject:* Re: Mid Tier 8.1.01 Timeouts
>
>
>
> **
>
> Does security have an application timeout?
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
>
>
> Sandra Hennigan
>
> Remedy Developer
>
>
>
> *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [
> mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG ] *On Behalf Of *Lippincott,
> Levi (OMA-GIS)
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 11, 2014 4:26 PM
> *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> *Subject:* Mid Tier 8.1.01 Timeouts
>
>
>
> **
>
> Has anyone ran into the issue where their users are timing out after an
> extremely low amount of time from the Mid Tier? This is even happening to
> some of our Fixed license users. They are getting session invalid errors
> after sometimes as little as 10 minutes.
>
>
>
> [image: Description: Description: cid:411C7191-C84A-4BC4-84A6-03A2A02A75D5]
>
> [image: Description: Description: cid:5B14E19B-6B68-4C9C-84B4-F4330F2857CF]
>
> [image: Description: Description: cid:08D97333-1C57-4D34-91BD-254ADB3942AF]
>
> Connect with us:interpublic.com 
>
> Twitter 
>
> Facebook 
>
> [image: Description: Description: cid:771DBABB-241A-47AB-AEEB-230567236D6E]
>
> *Levi Lippincott /* Remedy Administrator
> +1 402 561 7014 office
>
> +1 402 321 5421 mobile
>
> levi.lippinc...@interpublic.com
>
> Lync Communcator
>
> [image: Description: Description: cid:21DB6442-3C43-4D3D-BFC3-C2DA30C66CBF]
>
> *Interpublic Group  *6825 Pine Street, Omaha, NE 68106
>
>
>
> *"Talent is a Gift; But Character is a Choice." -Matt Grotewold-*
>
>
>
> This message contains information which may be confidential and
> privileged. Unless you are the intended recipient (or authorized to receive
> this message for the intended recipient), you may not use, copy,
> disseminate or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained
> in the message.  If you have received the message in error, please advise
> the sender by reply e-mail, and delete the message.  Thank you very much.
>
> _ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are" and have been for 20 years_
>
> _ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are" and have been for 20 years_
>  _ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are" and have been for 20 years_
>

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"Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years"
<><><>

Re: Mid Tier 8.1.01 Timeouts

[Lippincott, Levi (OMA-GIS)]

Sorry Dale, no Load balancer and no SSO. Relatively small environment. Users 
are connecting directly to the Mid Tier server and signing in. Authentication 
is happening through LDAP.

I will run some Plugin Logs to find out if may be something related to the LDAP 
authentication if you think that is a route to go.

Levi Lippincott / Remedy Administrator

+1 402 561 7014 office
+1 402 321 5421 mobile
levi.lippinc...@interpublic.com

Interpublic Group  6825 Pine Street, Omaha, NE 68106

"Talent is a Gift; But Character is a Choice." -Matt Grotewold-

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Dale Jones
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 3:39 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Mid Tier 8.1.01 Timeouts

**
Describe your environment (Load balancers?? or SSO??)

I recently had a 8.1.01 customer with Java SSO (Single Sign On) where we had to 
increase the Java SSO time deviation.

We were getting the following error in the Plugin Logs
Too much deviation between the token timestamp and the system time.

Once we increased the Deviation parameter the timeout issues stopped.

Take Care

Dale Jones
DCS
Raleigh, NC
919-523-6034

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] on 
behalf of Hennigan, Sandra [sandra.henni...@usdoj.gov]
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 4:33 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Mid Tier 8.1.01 Timeouts
**
Does security have an application timeout?

Thank you,

Sandra Hennigan
Remedy Developer

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Lippincott, Levi (OMA-GIS)
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 4:26 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Mid Tier 8.1.01 Timeouts

**
Has anyone ran into the issue where their users are timing out after an 
extremely low amount of time from the Mid Tier? This is even happening to some 
of our Fixed license users. They are getting session invalid errors after 
sometimes as little as 10 minutes.

[Description: Description: cid:411C7191-C84A-4BC4-84A6-03A2A02A75D5]





Connect with us:interpublic.com

Twitter

Facebook




Levi Lippincott / Remedy Administrator
+1 402 561 7014 office
+1 402 321 5421 mobile
levi.lippinc...@interpublic.com
Lync Communcator





Interpublic Group  6825 Pine Street, Omaha, NE 68106


"Talent is a Gift; But Character is a Choice." -Matt Grotewold-


This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. 
Unless you are the intended recipient (or authorized to receive this message 
for the intended recipient), you may not use, copy, disseminate or disclose to 
anyone the message or any information contained in the message.  If you have 
received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail, and 
delete the message.  Thank you very much.
_ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are" and have been for 20 years_
_ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are" and have been for 20 years_
_ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are" and have been for 20 years_

___
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"Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years"
<><><>

Re: Mid Tier 8.1.01 Timeouts

[LJ LongWing]

Ok...it's not an authentication issue.  The error of 'Session is invalid'
is referring specifically to their session with Tomcat.  I would focus my
attention on Tomcat at that point...is it bouncing on it's own, have you
checked the logs for the timeframes that this seems to be happening and see
if anything is happening over there?


On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 2:45 PM, Lippincott, Levi (OMA-GIS) <
levi.lippinc...@interpublic.com> wrote:

> **
>
> Sorry Dale, no Load balancer and no SSO. Relatively small environment.
> Users are connecting directly to the Mid Tier server and signing in.
> Authentication is happening through LDAP.
>
>
>
> I will run some Plugin Logs to find out if may be something related to the
> LDAP authentication if you think that is a route to go.
>
>
>
> *Levi Lippincott / *Remedy Administrator
>
>
>
> +1 402 561 7014 office
>
> +1 402 321 5421 mobile
>
> levi.lippinc...@interpublic.com
>
>
>
> *Interpublic Group*  6825 Pine Street, Omaha, NE 68106
>
>
>
> *"Talent is a Gift; But Character is a Choice." -Matt Grotewold-*
>
>
>
> *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:
> arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] *On Behalf Of *Dale Jones
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 11, 2014 3:39 PM
>
> *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> *Subject:* Re: Mid Tier 8.1.01 Timeouts
>
>
>
> **
>
> Describe your environment (Load balancers?? or SSO??)
>
> I recently had a 8.1.01 customer with Java SSO (Single Sign On) where we
> had to increase the Java SSO time deviation.
>
> We were getting the following error in the Plugin Logs
> Too much deviation between the token timestamp and the system time.
>
> Once we increased the Deviation parameter the timeout issues stopped.
>
> Take Care
>
>
>
> Dale Jones
>
> DCS
>
> Raleigh, NC
>
> 919-523-6034
>--
>
> *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [
> arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] on behalf of Hennigan, Sandra [
> sandra.henni...@usdoj.gov]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 11, 2014 4:33 PM
> *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> *Subject:* Re: Mid Tier 8.1.01 Timeouts
>
> **
>
> Does security have an application timeout?
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
>
>
> Sandra Hennigan
>
> Remedy Developer
>
>
>
> *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [
> mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG ] *On Behalf Of *Lippincott,
> Levi (OMA-GIS)
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 11, 2014 4:26 PM
> *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> *Subject:* Mid Tier 8.1.01 Timeouts
>
>
>
> **
>
> Has anyone ran into the issue where their users are timing out after an
> extremely low amount of time from the Mid Tier? This is even happening to
> some of our Fixed license users. They are getting session invalid errors
> after sometimes as little as 10 minutes.
>
>
>
> [image: Description: Description: cid:411C7191-C84A-4BC4-84A6-03A2A02A75D5]
>
> [image: Description: Description: cid:5B14E19B-6B68-4C9C-84B4-F4330F2857CF]
>
> [image: Description: Description: cid:08D97333-1C57-4D34-91BD-254ADB3942AF]
>
> Connect with us:interpublic.com 
>
> Twitter 
>
> Facebook 
>
> [image: Description: Description: cid:771DBABB-241A-47AB-AEEB-230567236D6E]
>
> *Levi Lippincott /* Remedy Administrator
> +1 402 561 7014 office
>
> +1 402 321 5421 mobile
>
> levi.lippinc...@interpublic.com
>
> Lync Communcator
>
> [image: Description: Description: cid:21DB6442-3C43-4D3D-BFC3-C2DA30C66CBF]
>
> *Interpublic Group  *6825 Pine Street, Omaha, NE 68106
>
>
>
> *"Talent is a Gift; But Character is a Choice." -Matt Grotewold-*
>
>
>
> This message contains information which may be confidential and
> privileged. Unless you are the intended recipient (or authorized to receive
> this message for the intended recipient), you may not use, copy,
> disseminate or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained
> in the message.  If you have received the message in error, please advise
> the sender by reply e-mail, and delete the message.  Thank you very much.
>
> _ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are" and have been for 20 years_
>
> _ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are" and have been for 20 years_
>
> _ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are" and have been for 20 years_
>  _ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are" and have been for 20 years_
>

___
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"Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years"
<><><>

Re: Mid Tier 8.1.01 Timeouts

[Lippincott, Levi (OMA-GIS)]

There was almost nothing in the error logs except a bunch of: Qualification 
String length is zero returning null.

I will keep poking around... maybe there is some sort of keep alive setting on 
the router or something.

Levi Lippincott / Remedy Administrator

+1 402 561 7014 office
+1 402 321 5421 mobile
levi.lippinc...@interpublic.com

Interpublic Group  6825 Pine Street, Omaha, NE 68106

"Talent is a Gift; But Character is a Choice." -Matt Grotewold-

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of LJ LongWing
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 3:49 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Mid Tier 8.1.01 Timeouts

**
Ok...it's not an authentication issue.  The error of 'Session is invalid' is 
referring specifically to their session with Tomcat.  I would focus my 
attention on Tomcat at that point...is it bouncing on it's own, have you 
checked the logs for the timeframes that this seems to be happening and see if 
anything is happening over there?

On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 2:45 PM, Lippincott, Levi (OMA-GIS) 
mailto:levi.lippinc...@interpublic.com>> wrote:
**
Sorry Dale, no Load balancer and no SSO. Relatively small environment. Users 
are connecting directly to the Mid Tier server and signing in. Authentication 
is happening through LDAP.

I will run some Plugin Logs to find out if may be something related to the LDAP 
authentication if you think that is a route to go.

Levi Lippincott / Remedy Administrator

+1 402 561 7014 office
+1 402 321 5421 mobile
levi.lippinc...@interpublic.com

Interpublic Group  6825 Pine Street, Omaha, NE 68106

"Talent is a Gift; But Character is a Choice." -Matt Grotewold-

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Dale Jones
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 3:39 PM

To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Mid Tier 8.1.01 Timeouts

**
Describe your environment (Load balancers?? or SSO??)

I recently had a 8.1.01 customer with Java SSO (Single Sign On) where we had to 
increase the Java SSO time deviation.

We were getting the following error in the Plugin Logs
Too much deviation between the token timestamp and the system time.

Once we increased the Deviation parameter the timeout issues stopped.

Take Care

Dale Jones
DCS
Raleigh, NC
919-523-6034

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] on behalf of Hennigan, Sandra 
[sandra.henni...@usdoj.gov]
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 4:33 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Mid Tier 8.1.01 Timeouts
**
Does security have an application timeout?

Thank you,

Sandra Hennigan
Remedy Developer

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Lippincott, Levi (OMA-GIS)
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 4:26 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Mid Tier 8.1.01 Timeouts

**
Has anyone ran into the issue where their users are timing out after an 
extremely low amount of time from the Mid Tier? This is even happening to some 
of our Fixed license users. They are getting session invalid errors after 
sometimes as little as 10 minutes.

[Description: Description: cid:411C7191-C84A-4BC4-84A6-03A2A02A75D5]





Connect with us:interpublic.com

Twitter

Facebook




Levi Lippincott / Remedy Administrator
+1 402 561 7014 office
+1 402 321 5421 mobile
levi.lippinc...@interpublic.com
Lync Communcator





Interpublic Group  6825 Pine Street, Omaha, NE 68106


"Talent is a Gift; But Character is a Choice." -Matt Grotewold-


This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. 
Unless you are the intended recipient (or authorized to receive this message 
for the intended recipient), you may not use, copy, disseminate or disclose to 
anyone the message or any information contained in the message.  If you have 
received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail, and 
delete the message.  Thank you very much.
_ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are" and have been for 20 years_
_ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are" and have been for 20 years_
_ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are" and have been for 20 years_
_ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are" and have been for 20 years_

_ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are" and have been for 20 years_

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"Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years"
<><><>