Re: Remedy Supported Products
Trac ... :-) -- Tony Worthington [EMAIL PROTECTED] 262-703-5911 Watson, Benjamin A. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) arslist@ARSLIST.ORG 03/09/2007 01:51 PM Please respond to arslist@ARSLIST.ORG To arslist@ARSLIST.ORG cc Subject Re: Remedy Supported Products Axton, Wanna stand up a Bugzilla portal off of your ARSWiki? I'd be glad to submit a list of RKM related bugs that I've uncovered and fixed. Ben From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Carey Matthew Black Sent: Fri 3/9/2007 10:31 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Remedy Supported Products Roy, It has been my experience (not only of late, but for several years) that the mantra of support is send us your logs and use the latest patch. The amount of support that they provide for anything except the most current patch of the day is to answer questions with statements like: That might be fixed in a later patch. Have you tried patch x yet? OR What version of the software are you using? (For the Nth time for the same support issue.) OR ( And this one is my favorite) No that is not a bug. Yes the documentation says that, but the actual design is not that. The bug is in the documentation. ( And they even say that when the functionality _changed_ between Major versions and the docs still reflect the old versions behaviour. ) I am beginning to think that the community could benefit from using a Bugzilla (or some other such bug tracking tool) that the whole community could map to BMC bugs and publish to the whole community. Sure it would be more work for us, but we might actually be able to group evaluate a patch instead of having to suffer individually through the same issues over and over again. -- Carey Matthew Black Remedy Skilled Professional (RSP) ARS = Action Request System(Remedy) Love, then teach Solution = People + Process + Tools Fast, Accurate, Cheap Pick two. On 3/9/07, Ashcraft, Roy W. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ** I opened a ticket with BMC yesterday over a problem we are having with Mid-Tier 7.00.00 patch 2. The immediate response, which was expected, was to update to version 7.00.01 patch 1. I responded explaining the business reasons why that is not feasible for our situation. I very quickly received a response indicating that in order for them to escalate this to engineering we would have to upgrade to the latest patch. Is BMC only supported the current patch release now and forswearing all support for past products, no matter how recent? Roy Ashcraft Systems Analyst SAIC [EMAIL PROTECTED] (402) 293-5218 ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This is a transmission from Kohl's Department Stores, Inc. and may contain information which is confidential and proprietary. If you are not the addressee, any disclosure, copying or distribution or use of the contents of this message is expressly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please destroy it and notify us immediately at 262-703-7000. CAUTION: Internet and e-mail communications are Kohl's property and Kohl's reserves the right to retrieve and read any message created, sent and received. Kohl's reserves the right to monitor messages to or from authorized Kohl's Associates at any time without any further consent. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are
Re: Remedy Supported Products
Not to mention the fact that patches are released at least once a month and for us it takes weeks to install and run regression testing and schedule the patch to be released into production. By the time we were set to roll Patch 20 into production, Patch 21 came along... We just cant keep up... Thanks Peter Lammey ESPN MIT Technical Services Applications Management 860-766-4761 -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Opela, Gary L Contr OC-ALC/ITMA Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 3:04 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Remedy Supported Products Hey David, I can understand what you're saying, and it makes sense. I mean, whenever they are at 6.3, they don't want to have to make a new patch for each version of 6.X.X.X.X.X that has ever been put out each time they release a new patch for the most recently supported code lines. However, (of course, you were expecting a however), I would like to see a patch that went out and did not cause additional issues. I'm not sure about 19, but in 18, 20, 21 there were numerous things broken. In 18, they broke the STRSTR function, in 20 they broke flashboards, and some other stuff, and in 21, now, I'm seeing more ppl report issues. In a patch, do they release any new functionality, or simply work to fix issues? IF they are only fixing issues, then the testing should not be that hard, should it? I mean, they are fixing a bug, so they know exactly what code was touched, and they should be able to see any other code that references that code and test it. I'm sorry for venting, it just seems that each new patch released is released almost exclusively to fix issues caused by the previous patch. Then they have to release a new patch to fix issues in that patch. I just want a stable patch so I can upgrade my server from 6.3 w/o any patches, but it hardly seems worth it since we are running stable, and each new patch breaks something that we use. -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Easter, David Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 10:41 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Remedy Supported Products As documented in the BMC Software Product Support Policy http://www.bmc.com/info_center_support/overview/0,,19097_4736154_407375 96,00.html on Support Central: For the purpose of this support policy, a maintenance release is considered part of the main version/release. For example, 3.2.05 is supported as part of the 3.2 release. Once a maintenance release is generally available, further patches to the version prior to the maintenance release are not generated by BMC. Patches are generated for only the latest maintenance release code line. In the case of AR System 7.0x, future patches are only generated against the AR System 7.0.01 code line. Patches are still generated for 6.0.1 and 6.03 as per the policy. Support continues to take calls on 7.0.00 even with the release of 7.0.01. However it is correct that an issue or defect would likely need to be duplicated on the 7.0.01 code stream prior to escalation or submission for a patch. -David J. Easter Sr. Product Manager, Service Management Business Unit BMC Software, Inc. The opinions, statements, and/or suggested courses of action expressed in this E-mail do not necessarily reflect those of BMC Software, Inc. My voluntary participation in this forum is not intended to convey a role as a spokesperson, liaison or public relations representative for BMC Software, Inc. From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ashcraft, Roy W. Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 7:52 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Remedy Supported Products ** I opened a ticket with BMC yesterday over a problem we are having with Mid-Tier 7.00.00 patch 2. The immediate response, which was expected, was to update to version 7.00.01 patch 1. I responded explaining the business reasons why that is not feasible for our situation. I very quickly received a response indicating that in order for them to escalate this to engineering we would have to upgrade to the latest patch. Is BMC only supported the current patch release now and forswearing all support for past products, no matter how recent? Roy Ashcraft Systems Analyst SAIC [EMAIL PROTECTED] (402) 293-5218 __20060125___This posting was submitted with HTML in it___ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org
Re: Remedy Supported Products
Hi Roy, Seems to me that BMC wants to have it their own way, to the extreme. Why should every one of their customers install a server patch each time a significant issue is encountered? Wouldn't it be far more sensible for BMC to try to reproduce the issue on the latest patch (which they surely have installed somewhere already)? If they can reproduce it, everyone knows it cannot be corrected by installing the latest patch. If they cannot reproduce it, the result is equivocal - maybe they didn't take the necessary set of steps or their context is somehow different. If they were really interested in providing support, they would have the customer's patch-level on a server could try to reproduce it there to confirm the steps necessary to manifest the issue. In any case, if they require that we move to the latest patch in order to get real support, they ought to document clearly, concisely, and accessibly all known issues in the patch to which they want us to move. Then we could choose among sets of bugs and take the set that's least undesireable in our situation. Otherwise they're unreasonably expecting us to buy the proverbial pig in a poke. My 2 cents worth, Doug Anderson Opinions expressed are necessarily mine, not necessarily those of the Mayo Foundation. Original message: Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 11:57:41 -0800 From: Ashcraft, Roy W. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Remedy Supported Products Carey, I don't have a problem with their suggesting the latest patch or requesting the logs. All of that is normal. However, I responded with the business reasons why we were not moving to 7.00.01 patch 1 (we just don't have the time it takes to correct the flaws that the patch will insert into the system) and asked if their was an issue addressed in that patch or any patch leading up to it that I missed in my search which directly or indirectly addressed the issue which we were observing (losing authentication and permissions though the mid-tier). The question was ignored and the response from the tech was that to escalate the ticket to engineering we would have to upgrade to the latest patch. This response completely ignores any of BMC's customer's reasons for either moving to a patch or not moving to a patch. It basically says that to get support, you have to be on the latest patch. Otherwise, we'll listen to you and help you with knowledge base searches that you can do yourself and look at your logs in case you can't read them yourselves, but if you actually need the support you're paying for, be prepared to choke and perform the upgrade with any pain or problems that the upgrade may cause you. Makes you wonder about the value of the support. Roy ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are
Re: Remedy Supported Products
Hi Roy, Seems to me that BMC wants to have it their own way, to the extreme. Why should every one of their customers install a server patch each time a significant issue is encountered? Wouldn't it be far more sensible for BMC to try to reproduce the issue on the latest patch (which they surely have installed somewhere already)? If they can reproduce it, everyone knows it cannot be corrected by installing the latest patch. If they cannot reproduce it, the result is equivocal - maybe they didn't take the necessary set of steps or their context is somehow different. If they were really interested in providing support, they would have the customer's patch-level on a server could try to reproduce it there to confirm the steps necessary to manifest the issue. In any case, if they require that we move to the latest patch in order to get real support, they ought to document clearly, concisely, and accessibly all known issues in the patch to which they want us to move. Then we could choose among sets of bugs and take the set that's least undesireable in our situation. Otherwise they're unreasonably expecting us to buy the proverbial pig in a poke. My 2 cents worth, Doug Anderson Opinions expressed are necessarily mine, not necessarily those of the Mayo Foundation. Original message: Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 11:57:41 -0800 From: Ashcraft, Roy W. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Remedy Supported Products Carey, I don't have a problem with their suggesting the latest patch or requesting the logs. All of that is normal. However, I responded with the business reasons why we were not moving to 7.00.01 patch 1 (we just don't have the time it takes to correct the flaws that the patch will insert into the system) and asked if their was an issue addressed in that patch or any patch leading up to it that I missed in my search which directly or indirectly addressed the issue which we were observing (losing authentication and permissions though the mid-tier). The question was ignored and the response from the tech was that to escalate the ticket to engineering we would have to upgrade to the latest patch. This response completely ignores any of BMC's customer's reasons for either moving to a patch or not moving to a patch. It basically says that to get support, you have to be on the latest patch. Otherwise, we'll listen to you and help you with knowledge base searches that you can do yourself and look at your logs in case you can't read them yourselves, but if you actually need the support you're paying for, be prepared to choke and perform the upgrade with any pain or problems that the upgrade may cause you. Makes you wonder about the value of the support. Roy ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are
Re: Remedy Supported Products
Hi Roy, Seems to me that BMC wants to have it their own way, to the extreme. Why should every one of their customers install a server patch each time a significant issue is encountered? Wouldn't it be far more sensible for BMC to try to reproduce the issue on the latest patch (which they surely have installed somewhere already)? If they can reproduce it, everyone knows it cannot be corrected by installing the latest patch. If they cannot reproduce it, the result is equivocal - maybe they didn't take the necessary set of steps or their context is somehow different. If they were really interested in providing support, they would have the customer's patch-level on a server could try to reproduce it there to confirm the steps necessary to manifest the issue. In any case, if they require that we move to the latest patch in order to get real support, they ought to document clearly, concisely, and accessibly all known issues in the patch to which they want us to move. Then we could choose among sets of bugs and take the set that's least undesireable in our situation. Otherwise they're unreasonably expecting us to buy the proverbial pig in a poke. My 2 cents worth, Doug Anderson Opinions expressed are necessarily mine, not necessarily those of the Mayo Foundation. Original message: Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 11:57:41 -0800 From: Ashcraft, Roy W. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Remedy Supported Products Carey, I don't have a problem with their suggesting the latest patch or requesting the logs. All of that is normal. However, I responded with the business reasons why we were not moving to 7.00.01 patch 1 (we just don't have the time it takes to correct the flaws that the patch will insert into the system) and asked if their was an issue addressed in that patch or any patch leading up to it that I missed in my search which directly or indirectly addressed the issue which we were observing (losing authentication and permissions though the mid-tier). The question was ignored and the response from the tech was that to escalate the ticket to engineering we would have to upgrade to the latest patch. This response completely ignores any of BMC's customer's reasons for either moving to a patch or not moving to a patch. It basically says that to get support, you have to be on the latest patch. Otherwise, we'll listen to you and help you with knowledge base searches that you can do yourself and look at your logs in case you can't read them yourselves, but if you actually need the support you're paying for, be prepared to choke and perform the upgrade with any pain or problems that the upgrade may cause you. Makes you wonder about the value of the support. Roy ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are
Re: Remedy Supported Products
Thanks for the response, David. I appreciate all you put into this list. It is good to see the Patch Quality is a topic that is being reviewed. That does give me hope! Gary -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Easter, David Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 8:08 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Remedy Supported Products However, (of course, you were expecting a however), I would like to see a patch that went out and did not cause additional issues. I agree. My understanding is that there are some internal reviews occurring around the topic of patch quality. I can't really go into details, but it is an issue being talked about. In a patch, do they release any new functionality, or simply work to fix issues? Under current policy, patches may only contain defect fixes. Sometimes, though, the distinction between a defect and an enhancement can get downright philosophical - so minor changes to, or an extension of, existing functionality may be present in a patch because it may be the only way to address what is advocated as a defect. -David J. Easter Sr. Product Manager, Service Management Business Unit BMC Software, Inc. The opinions, statements, and/or suggested courses of action expressed in this E-mail do not necessarily reflect those of BMC Software, Inc. My voluntary participation in this forum is not intended to convey a role as a spokesperson, liaison or public relations representative for BMC Software, Inc. -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Opela, Gary L Contr OC-ALC/ITMA Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 12:04 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Remedy Supported Products Hey David, I can understand what you're saying, and it makes sense. I mean, whenever they are at 6.3, they don't want to have to make a new patch for each version of 6.X.X.X.X.X that has ever been put out each time they release a new patch for the most recently supported code lines. However, (of course, you were expecting a however), I would like to see a patch that went out and did not cause additional issues. I'm not sure about 19, but in 18, 20, 21 there were numerous things broken. In 18, they broke the STRSTR function, in 20 they broke flashboards, and some other stuff, and in 21, now, I'm seeing more ppl report issues. In a patch, do they release any new functionality, or simply work to fix issues? IF they are only fixing issues, then the testing should not be that hard, should it? I mean, they are fixing a bug, so they know exactly what code was touched, and they should be able to see any other code that references that code and test it. I'm sorry for venting, it just seems that each new patch released is released almost exclusively to fix issues caused by the previous patch. Then they have to release a new patch to fix issues in that patch. I just want a stable patch so I can upgrade my server from 6.3 w/o any patches, but it hardly seems worth it since we are running stable, and each new patch breaks something that we use. -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Easter, David Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 10:41 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Remedy Supported Products As documented in the BMC Software Product Support Policy http://www.bmc.com/info_center_support/overview/0,,19097_4736154_407375 96,00.html on Support Central: For the purpose of this support policy, a maintenance release is considered part of the main version/release. For example, 3.2.05 is supported as part of the 3.2 release. Once a maintenance release is generally available, further patches to the version prior to the maintenance release are not generated by BMC. Patches are generated for only the latest maintenance release code line. In the case of AR System 7.0x, future patches are only generated against the AR System 7.0.01 code line. Patches are still generated for 6.0.1 and 6.03 as per the policy. Support continues to take calls on 7.0.00 even with the release of 7.0.01. However it is correct that an issue or defect would likely need to be duplicated on the 7.0.01 code stream prior to escalation or submission for a patch. -David J. Easter Sr. Product Manager, Service Management Business Unit BMC Software, Inc. The opinions, statements, and/or suggested courses of action expressed in this E-mail do not necessarily reflect those of BMC Software, Inc. My voluntary participation in this forum is not intended to convey a role as a spokesperson, liaison or public relations representative for BMC Software, Inc. From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ashcraft, Roy W. Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 7:52 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Remedy Supported Products ** I opened a ticket
Re: Remedy Supported Products
Axton; THANKS for your efforts, and I do agree with this, as well as the other thread: How about a list of Open Bugs for ITSM 7.0.01/02 Patch003? However this yields the question of the YAS (Yet Another System) factor of this. While this maybe good as the 'community' of professional arsystem developers, I think I would address this differently to BMC/Remedy... We all know that there ARE REMEDY/BMC PEOPLE on the list! So, here this comes, and my .002 verison-euro :) Every RUG we have the Evening with Engineering which is ALWAYS a very good meeting and interface with the core teams. Engineering takes the PRO-ACTIVE approach, in getting WITH the people, to ask about things that went good but more over things that Went Bad and Areas of Improvement and Future Thinking... Why not also provide an Evening with Support of the same style? You could also have the same other Evening With's so to say, such as the Applications, ... I've been involved in Customer Service in the electronics industry since 1979, and this is a much needed CIP (Continuous Improvement Process) or Deming Cycle (always review and improve)... Yes BMC/Remedy Customer Service has vast areas of improvements, but they also deserve their credit WHERE and WHEN DUE. When I was working a L3 tech supporting all the field specialists, who caught the brunt of the issues/frustrations from the field? L3 Support personnel, NOT Engineering! (well ok the field specialists caught it first and passed it on!) Of course as a L3 person we beat-up engineering for all of our bruises as well! (Remember that the person ON the phone is not the person coming to FIX your phone, so when they are hours late poke the correct person!!) So, the BMC Person(s) reading this mail would like to contact me privately, I can provide you past templates for such Customer Service to Customer Meetings which has been quite successful in past organizations! The issue is that BMC Support Management needs to initiate the action in this circumstance... One of the major issues in supporting a system like Remedy and ITSM version X applications, is that no-one ever uses them 100% OUT OF THE BOX. This will be the issue with this proposed bug-tracker, as there is so much information needed to properly begin to Classify the issue for it to become reliable, and then the 'who' is entering the data as well :( IF this is only for 100% IN THE BOX applications, and ONLY concerns AR System and above topics, it might be able to work, because there is no Environment involved (host-os, java, database, ...) although those __ARE__ important in certain circumstances... However, this might be what is needed in order to push BMC-Support to step forward and ask their user community what they would LIKE to see and have, versus this is what we GIVE you, like it or.. (unfortunately in this circumstance there is no ..leave it). Thanks-n-advance; HDT Platform Incident / Problem Manager Architect Robert Molenda IT OS PA Tel: +1 408 503 2701 Fax: +1 408 503 2912 Mobile: +1 408 472 8097 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quality begins with your actions. -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Axton Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 10:27 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Remedy Supported Products Ok, the app is available at the following url: http://arswiki.org/bugs There is still some configuration that has to be done (add products, versions, etc), but it's set up and backed up, and the basic configuration is done. I would really like to see an interface this informative, useful, and intuitive that provides this level of visibility on the BMC site for defect tracking (populated and maintained by BMC's internal support processes and related avenues of information, such as partners that provide support services). Could such a thing be done? Ah well, if anything comes of this, I hope that the people at BMC responsible for the support and development organizations see this message, get a glimpse of what software in the arena of bug tracking does, take notes, and then do something about the current state of things. There are so many features that just make sense: - Ability to vote on a bug (using predefined limits, can change a bug to a confirmed status; could be used by engineers, customers, whatever makes sense if applied at BMC) - Notification to submitter and cc list when a bug is resolved - Notification to submitter and cc list when a bug is updated - Notification to submitter and cc list when a bug is reopened - Ability to add yourself to the cc list for defects - Ability to chart defects per status/product/component/version/platform/severity/etc - would sure be useful when deciding whether to upgrade, no? - Selections for component, platform, version, product, etc. when creating the bug - Ability to search bugs To answer some Michelle's questions, I have no power over BMC or their internal processes, what I can do though
Re: Remedy Supported Products
Me, too. But I have a question about the whole process. Is there going to be a scheduled push whether manual or automated to send the bugs to BMC Remedy? Would their bug number scheme be different? How would we know if/when their fixed? ...so many questions -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rocky Rockwell Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 11:10 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Remedy Supported Products I would vote for it if it is not to much trouble for you. *Rocky* Rocky Rockwell eMA Team - Remedy Developer [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Ph#1: 214-567-8874 Ph#2: 325-884-1263 Axton wrote: If there is sufficient interest, I will set it up. The software is free. Aside from periodic patches and the initial setup (backups, configuration, etc), the maintenance is negligable. Plus, it would complement the Trac/SVN apps I have set up. Speaking of, if anyone wants to start a Remedy related development project (c, java, def, etc), I am open to hosting an svn repository, Trac interface, and maybe a bugzilla app (have to see if there is more interest). The data is backed up up across country nightly, then to tape, which is stored at a secure site. 20 days worth of backups are retained on immediate storage and 20 months worth on tape (at least until the storage needs to be upgraded). The only requirement to use the site is: the software has to be available under an OSI approved license. If interested email me. Axton http://arswiki.org On 3/9/07, Watson, Benjamin A. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Axton, Wanna stand up a Bugzilla portal off of your ARSWiki? I'd be glad to submit a list of RKM related bugs that I've uncovered and fixed. Ben From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Carey Matthew Black Sent: Fri 3/9/2007 10:31 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Remedy Supported Products Roy, It has been my experience (not only of late, but for several years) that the mantra of support is send us your logs and use the latest patch. The amount of support that they provide for anything except the most current patch of the day is to answer questions with statements like: That might be fixed in a later patch. Have you tried patch x yet? OR What version of the software are you using? (For the Nth time for the same support issue.) OR ( And this one is my favorite) No that is not a bug. Yes the documentation says that, but the actual design is not that. The bug is in the documentation. ( And they even say that when the functionality _changed_ between Major versions and the docs still reflect the old versions behaviour. ) I am beginning to think that the community could benefit from using a Bugzilla (or some other such bug tracking tool) that the whole community could map to BMC bugs and publish to the whole community. Sure it would be more work for us, but we might actually be able to group evaluate a patch instead of having to suffer individually through the same issues over and over again. -- Carey Matthew Black Remedy Skilled Professional (RSP) ARS = Action Request System(Remedy) Love, then teach Solution = People + Process + Tools Fast, Accurate, Cheap Pick two. On 3/9/07, Ashcraft, Roy W. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ** I opened a ticket with BMC yesterday over a problem we are having with Mid-Tier 7.00.00 patch 2. The immediate response, which was expected, was to update to version 7.00.01 patch 1. I responded explaining the business reasons why that is not feasible for our situation. I very quickly received a response indicating that in order for them to escalate this to engineering we would have to upgrade to the latest patch. Is BMC only supported the current patch release now and forswearing all support for past products, no matter how recent? Roy Ashcraft Systems Analyst SAIC [EMAIL PROTECTED] (402) 293-5218 ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are
Re: Remedy Supported Products
Michelle, My understanding of how BMC decides if a bug is important enough to be fixed/worked on has to to with the number of customers that have reported the bug, and how much pressure they individually and collectively apply to BMC to try to get a resolution. ( Sure there are other factors like the design goal for the next version and if the feature in question will even be moved into the next version at all too. ) My_Vision My suggestion of hosting an independent bug tracking list would be to allow customers to share their experiences with each other. So that when a bug is identified by a customer other customers could try to reproduce the issue and also report the problem to BMC in a consistent way. So when an issue is a real issue for lots of customers BMC might hear the same thing from multiple support contracts and prioritize the effort to resolve the problem accordingly. I in no way expect such a customer effort to actually alter, or be a direct contributor or consumer, of any part of the existing BMC support process. Frankly I would rather then spend more time on fixing the bugs than trying to alter their applications to deal with a customer maintained bugzilla or other such software variants. I was basically think a community (like ARSList) specifically geared for Bug tracking. Hopefully it would contain a list of BMC Bug ID(s) that customers get when they report the issue. And if we can all be more aware of the existing Bug ID's then we can actually report another incident and reference an existing BMC Bug ID. And help reduce the total number of duplicate Bug ID's that get created in BMC's world. Now it would be fantastic if such a community effort could also develop a single (or maybe one pre bug) application that would allow other users (and BMC) to import the application and push a button to preform the test and evaluate the current functionality of the system. Yes, it gets very complicated when the bug is not limited to just workflow. (Like Import tool, or Admin Tool, or User Tool Vs. Mid-Tier type bugs.) But I still think it can be done. It would simply add more requirements to the testing environment for the application to work. And when it is more API specific, then sample code should be supplied to be able to reproduce the issue. Having the community create such a Test this bug this way message for BMC might help them to more quickly understand the real issue and skip over some of the misunderstandings that we all have experienced with Tech support. The only points of contact in the process would be individuals reviewing the community bug list and testing them on their environment(s) and when they can reproduce the bug, reporting it to BMC as that they are effected by that bug. If the community application was constructed in a way that would allow for outbound notifications when the community bug is fixed then it could also notify those who identified themselves as affected by the bug at that point too. ( Dependent on the feature set of the application used to track this stuff for the community. ) really_a_pipe_dream And it would be fantastic if BMC could actually let us develop such an ARS application for them. The could host a Server Cluster that they let a few outside developers build/work with and we all could get real accounts on the system. Who knows, they could even do performance testing on that instance. We would have a real system with 100's, 1000's of real users using real applications that are designed to help BMC better understand and meet the needs of their customers. And if BMC would not be willing to do such a great undertaking... maybe a partner would be able to do it? [ Fishing for some help here... Anyone with an Internet accessible ARS server with some bandwidth to burn? ] /really_a_pipe_dream The point is that it would be the community working for the needs of the community to help BMC help the community. I know all of this is not a novel idea, but most activists are not original thinkers either. They simply motivate others to take actions to improve a specific topic of interest. I am interested in seeing fewer bugs in BMC products and I think we all can make a big impact in that topic if we are willing to work hard enough. :) /My_Vision -- Carey Matthew Black Remedy Skilled Professional (RSP) ARS = Action Request System(Remedy) Love, then teach Solution = People + Process + Tools Fast, Accurate, Cheap Pick two. On 3/10/07, Lucero, Michelle - IST contractor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Me, too. But I have a question about the whole process. Is there going to be a scheduled push whether manual or automated to send the bugs to BMC Remedy? Would their bug number scheme be different? How would we know if/when their fixed? ...so many questions ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are
Re: Remedy Supported Products
Axton and Carey: Just want you to know that I appreciate the fact that you are taking action. This is quite an undertaking. Thanks, Michelle -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Carey Matthew Black Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 1:21 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Remedy Supported Products Michelle, My understanding of how BMC decides if a bug is important enough to be fixed/worked on has to to with the number of customers that have reported the bug, and how much pressure they individually and collectively apply to BMC to try to get a resolution. ( Sure there are other factors like the design goal for the next version and if the feature in question will even be moved into the next version at all too. ) My_Vision My suggestion of hosting an independent bug tracking list would be to allow customers to share their experiences with each other. So that when a bug is identified by a customer other customers could try to reproduce the issue and also report the problem to BMC in a consistent way. So when an issue is a real issue for lots of customers BMC might hear the same thing from multiple support contracts and prioritize the effort to resolve the problem accordingly. I in no way expect such a customer effort to actually alter, or be a direct contributor or consumer, of any part of the existing BMC support process. Frankly I would rather then spend more time on fixing the bugs than trying to alter their applications to deal with a customer maintained bugzilla or other such software variants. I was basically think a community (like ARSList) specifically geared for Bug tracking. Hopefully it would contain a list of BMC Bug ID(s) that customers get when they report the issue. And if we can all be more aware of the existing Bug ID's then we can actually report another incident and reference an existing BMC Bug ID. And help reduce the total number of duplicate Bug ID's that get created in BMC's world. Now it would be fantastic if such a community effort could also develop a single (or maybe one pre bug) application that would allow other users (and BMC) to import the application and push a button to preform the test and evaluate the current functionality of the system. Yes, it gets very complicated when the bug is not limited to just workflow. (Like Import tool, or Admin Tool, or User Tool Vs. Mid-Tier type bugs.) But I still think it can be done. It would simply add more requirements to the testing environment for the application to work. And when it is more API specific, then sample code should be supplied to be able to reproduce the issue. Having the community create such a Test this bug this way message for BMC might help them to more quickly understand the real issue and skip over some of the misunderstandings that we all have experienced with Tech support. The only points of contact in the process would be individuals reviewing the community bug list and testing them on their environment(s) and when they can reproduce the bug, reporting it to BMC as that they are effected by that bug. If the community application was constructed in a way that would allow for outbound notifications when the community bug is fixed then it could also notify those who identified themselves as affected by the bug at that point too. ( Dependent on the feature set of the application used to track this stuff for the community. ) really_a_pipe_dream And it would be fantastic if BMC could actually let us develop such an ARS application for them. The could host a Server Cluster that they let a few outside developers build/work with and we all could get real accounts on the system. Who knows, they could even do performance testing on that instance. We would have a real system with 100's, 1000's of real users using real applications that are designed to help BMC better understand and meet the needs of their customers. And if BMC would not be willing to do such a great undertaking... maybe a partner would be able to do it? [ Fishing for some help here... Anyone with an Internet accessible ARS server with some bandwidth to burn? ] /really_a_pipe_dream The point is that it would be the community working for the needs of the community to help BMC help the community. I know all of this is not a novel idea, but most activists are not original thinkers either. They simply motivate others to take actions to improve a specific topic of interest. I am interested in seeing fewer bugs in BMC products and I think we all can make a big impact in that topic if we are willing to work hard enough. :) /My_Vision -- Carey Matthew Black Remedy Skilled Professional (RSP) ARS = Action Request System(Remedy) Love, then teach Solution = People + Process + Tools Fast, Accurate, Cheap Pick two. On 3/10/07, Lucero, Michelle - IST contractor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Me, too. But I have a question about the whole process. Is there going
Remedy Supported Products
I opened a ticket with BMC yesterday over a problem we are having with Mid-Tier 7.00.00 patch 2. The immediate response, which was expected, was to update to version 7.00.01 patch 1. I responded explaining the business reasons why that is not feasible for our situation. I very quickly received a response indicating that in order for them to escalate this to engineering we would have to upgrade to the latest patch. Is BMC only supported the current patch release now and forswearing all support for past products, no matter how recent? Roy Ashcraft Systems Analyst SAIC [EMAIL PROTECTED] (402) 293-5218 ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are
Re: Remedy Supported Products
As documented in the BMC Software Product Support Policy http://www.bmc.com/info_center_support/overview/0,,19097_4736154_407375 96,00.html on Support Central: For the purpose of this support policy, a maintenance release is considered part of the main version/release. For example, 3.2.05 is supported as part of the 3.2 release. Once a maintenance release is generally available, further patches to the version prior to the maintenance release are not generated by BMC. Patches are generated for only the latest maintenance release code line. In the case of AR System 7.0x, future patches are only generated against the AR System 7.0.01 code line. Patches are still generated for 6.0.1 and 6.03 as per the policy. Support continues to take calls on 7.0.00 even with the release of 7.0.01. However it is correct that an issue or defect would likely need to be duplicated on the 7.0.01 code stream prior to escalation or submission for a patch. -David J. Easter Sr. Product Manager, Service Management Business Unit BMC Software, Inc. The opinions, statements, and/or suggested courses of action expressed in this E-mail do not necessarily reflect those of BMC Software, Inc. My voluntary participation in this forum is not intended to convey a role as a spokesperson, liaison or public relations representative for BMC Software, Inc. From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ashcraft, Roy W. Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 7:52 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Remedy Supported Products ** I opened a ticket with BMC yesterday over a problem we are having with Mid-Tier 7.00.00 patch 2. The immediate response, which was expected, was to update to version 7.00.01 patch 1. I responded explaining the business reasons why that is not feasible for our situation. I very quickly received a response indicating that in order for them to escalate this to engineering we would have to upgrade to the latest patch. Is BMC only supported the current patch release now and forswearing all support for past products, no matter how recent? Roy Ashcraft Systems Analyst SAIC [EMAIL PROTECTED] (402) 293-5218 __20060125___This posting was submitted with HTML in it___ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are
Re: Remedy Supported Products
IF that is how Remedy (er' BMC) is going to run their support, they have taken a step backwards in time into the dark ages... I am unsure why the are doing that, but that is typical ask the customer the 50 questions (which you already input into the ticket, like environment, patch levels and such) then they say oh you are not at the BLEEDING EDGE (which no one really every wants to be but the DST Patch 21 issue is a point that we have to be sometimes)... This is equivalent of your car repair shop saying we are not going to look at the issue, but upgrade your engine to X but ignoring the costs, etc... As I mention in the past, and keep pushing for in the future... Development = Test = Production Is needed for all applications, and application suppliers must understand that licenses must be 'free' for these development and test environments. Application User licenses, etc. If they are concerned of miss-use then THEY need to establish a AUDIT process :-) Personally I'd call my salesman (whoops, salesperson) and give them an earful... Also this whole version number and Patch Number thing they have been doing is totally out of control :-( (different thread on this a while ago as well)... So, move over, I think the soap box is going to get quite full :-) Thanks-n-advance; HDT Platform Incident / Problem Manager Architect Robert Molenda IT OS PA Tel: +1 408 503 2701 Fax: +1 408 503 2912 Mobile: +1 408 472 8097 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quality begins with your actions. From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ashcraft, Roy W. Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 7:52 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Remedy Supported Products I opened a ticket with BMC yesterday over a problem we are having with Mid-Tier 7.00.00 patch 2. The immediate response, which was expected, was to update to version 7.00.01 patch 1. I responded explaining the business reasons why that is not feasible for our situation. I very quickly received a response indicating that in order for them to escalate this to engineering we would have to upgrade to the latest patch. Is BMC only supported the current patch release now and forswearing all support for past products, no matter how recent? Roy Ashcraft Systems Analyst SAIC [EMAIL PROTECTED] (402) 293-5218 __20060125___This posting was submitted with HTML in it___ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are
Re: Remedy Supported Products
Roy, It has been my experience (not only of late, but for several years) that the mantra of support is send us your logs and use the latest patch. The amount of support that they provide for anything except the most current patch of the day is to answer questions with statements like: That might be fixed in a later patch. Have you tried patch x yet? OR What version of the software are you using? (For the Nth time for the same support issue.) OR ( And this one is my favorite) No that is not a bug. Yes the documentation says that, but the actual design is not that. The bug is in the documentation. ( And they even say that when the functionality _changed_ between Major versions and the docs still reflect the old versions behaviour. ) I am beginning to think that the community could benefit from using a Bugzilla (or some other such bug tracking tool) that the whole community could map to BMC bugs and publish to the whole community. Sure it would be more work for us, but we might actually be able to group evaluate a patch instead of having to suffer individually through the same issues over and over again. -- Carey Matthew Black Remedy Skilled Professional (RSP) ARS = Action Request System(Remedy) Love, then teach Solution = People + Process + Tools Fast, Accurate, Cheap Pick two. On 3/9/07, Ashcraft, Roy W. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ** I opened a ticket with BMC yesterday over a problem we are having with Mid-Tier 7.00.00 patch 2. The immediate response, which was expected, was to update to version 7.00.01 patch 1. I responded explaining the business reasons why that is not feasible for our situation. I very quickly received a response indicating that in order for them to escalate this to engineering we would have to upgrade to the latest patch. Is BMC only supported the current patch release now and forswearing all support for past products, no matter how recent? Roy Ashcraft Systems Analyst SAIC [EMAIL PROTECTED] (402) 293-5218 ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are
Re: Remedy Supported Products
Carey, I don't have a problem with their suggesting the latest patch or requesting the logs. All of that is normal. However, I responded with the business reasons why we were not moving to 7.00.01 patch 1 (we just don't have the time it takes to correct the flaws that the patch will insert into the system) and asked if their was an issue addressed in that patch or any patch leading up to it that I missed in my search which directly or indirectly addressed the issue which we were observing (losing authentication and permissions though the mid-tier). The question was ignored and the response from the tech was that to escalate the ticket to engineering we would have to upgrade to the latest patch. This response completely ignores any of BMC's customer's reasons for either moving to a patch or not moving to a patch. It basically says that to get support, you have to be on the latest patch. Otherwise, we'll listen to you and help you with knowledge base searches that you can do yourself and look at your logs in case you can't read them yourselves, but if you actually need the support you're paying for, be prepared to choke and perform the upgrade with any pain or problems that the upgrade may cause you. Makes you wonder about the value of the support. Roy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Carey Matthew Black Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 12:31 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Remedy Supported Products Roy, It has been my experience (not only of late, but for several years) that the mantra of support is send us your logs and use the latest patch. The amount of support that they provide for anything except the most current patch of the day is to answer questions with statements like: That might be fixed in a later patch. Have you tried patch x yet? OR What version of the software are you using? (For the Nth time for the same support issue.) OR ( And this one is my favorite) No that is not a bug. Yes the documentation says that, but the actual design is not that. The bug is in the documentation. ( And they even say that when the functionality _changed_ between Major versions and the docs still reflect the old versions behaviour. ) I am beginning to think that the community could benefit from using a Bugzilla (or some other such bug tracking tool) that the whole community could map to BMC bugs and publish to the whole community. Sure it would be more work for us, but we might actually be able to group evaluate a patch instead of having to suffer individually through the same issues over and over again. -- Carey Matthew Black Remedy Skilled Professional (RSP) ARS = Action Request System(Remedy) Love, then teach Solution = People + Process + Tools Fast, Accurate, Cheap Pick two. On 3/9/07, Ashcraft, Roy W. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ** I opened a ticket with BMC yesterday over a problem we are having with Mid-Tier 7.00.00 patch 2. The immediate response, which was expected, was to update to version 7.00.01 patch 1. I responded explaining the business reasons why that is not feasible for our situation. I very quickly received a response indicating that in order for them to escalate this to engineering we would have to upgrade to the latest patch. Is BMC only supported the current patch release now and forswearing all support for past products, no matter how recent? Roy Ashcraft Systems Analyst SAIC [EMAIL PROTECTED] (402) 293-5218 ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are
Re: Remedy Supported Products
Hey David, I can understand what you're saying, and it makes sense. I mean, whenever they are at 6.3, they don't want to have to make a new patch for each version of 6.X.X.X.X.X that has ever been put out each time they release a new patch for the most recently supported code lines. However, (of course, you were expecting a however), I would like to see a patch that went out and did not cause additional issues. I'm not sure about 19, but in 18, 20, 21 there were numerous things broken. In 18, they broke the STRSTR function, in 20 they broke flashboards, and some other stuff, and in 21, now, I'm seeing more ppl report issues. In a patch, do they release any new functionality, or simply work to fix issues? IF they are only fixing issues, then the testing should not be that hard, should it? I mean, they are fixing a bug, so they know exactly what code was touched, and they should be able to see any other code that references that code and test it. I'm sorry for venting, it just seems that each new patch released is released almost exclusively to fix issues caused by the previous patch. Then they have to release a new patch to fix issues in that patch. I just want a stable patch so I can upgrade my server from 6.3 w/o any patches, but it hardly seems worth it since we are running stable, and each new patch breaks something that we use. -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Easter, David Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 10:41 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Remedy Supported Products As documented in the BMC Software Product Support Policy http://www.bmc.com/info_center_support/overview/0,,19097_4736154_407375 96,00.html on Support Central: For the purpose of this support policy, a maintenance release is considered part of the main version/release. For example, 3.2.05 is supported as part of the 3.2 release. Once a maintenance release is generally available, further patches to the version prior to the maintenance release are not generated by BMC. Patches are generated for only the latest maintenance release code line. In the case of AR System 7.0x, future patches are only generated against the AR System 7.0.01 code line. Patches are still generated for 6.0.1 and 6.03 as per the policy. Support continues to take calls on 7.0.00 even with the release of 7.0.01. However it is correct that an issue or defect would likely need to be duplicated on the 7.0.01 code stream prior to escalation or submission for a patch. -David J. Easter Sr. Product Manager, Service Management Business Unit BMC Software, Inc. The opinions, statements, and/or suggested courses of action expressed in this E-mail do not necessarily reflect those of BMC Software, Inc. My voluntary participation in this forum is not intended to convey a role as a spokesperson, liaison or public relations representative for BMC Software, Inc. From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ashcraft, Roy W. Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 7:52 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Remedy Supported Products ** I opened a ticket with BMC yesterday over a problem we are having with Mid-Tier 7.00.00 patch 2. The immediate response, which was expected, was to update to version 7.00.01 patch 1. I responded explaining the business reasons why that is not feasible for our situation. I very quickly received a response indicating that in order for them to escalate this to engineering we would have to upgrade to the latest patch. Is BMC only supported the current patch release now and forswearing all support for past products, no matter how recent? Roy Ashcraft Systems Analyst SAIC [EMAIL PROTECTED] (402) 293-5218 __20060125___This posting was submitted with HTML in it___ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are
Re: Remedy Supported Products
Matt, I even got a request for logs when reporting a problem with saving a Filter. They said it was so that they could see what else was running, but I fail to see how that would be relevant, since it happened at different times and with different activities. Rick -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Carey Matthew Black Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 10:31 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Remedy Supported Products Roy, It has been my experience (not only of late, but for several years) that the mantra of support is send us your logs and use the latest patch. The amount of support that they provide for anything except the most current patch of the day is to answer questions with statements like: That might be fixed in a later patch. Have you tried patch x yet? OR What version of the software are you using? (For the Nth time for the same support issue.) OR ( And this one is my favorite) No that is not a bug. Yes the documentation says that, but the actual design is not that. The bug is in the documentation. ( And they even say that when the functionality _changed_ between Major versions and the docs still reflect the old versions behaviour. ) I am beginning to think that the community could benefit from using a Bugzilla (or some other such bug tracking tool) that the whole community could map to BMC bugs and publish to the whole community. Sure it would be more work for us, but we might actually be able to group evaluate a patch instead of having to suffer individually through the same issues over and over again. -- Carey Matthew Black Remedy Skilled Professional (RSP) ARS = Action Request System(Remedy) Love, then teach Solution = People + Process + Tools Fast, Accurate, Cheap Pick two. On 3/9/07, Ashcraft, Roy W. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ** I opened a ticket with BMC yesterday over a problem we are having with Mid-Tier 7.00.00 patch 2. The immediate response, which was expected, was to update to version 7.00.01 patch 1. I responded explaining the business reasons why that is not feasible for our situation. I very quickly received a response indicating that in order for them to escalate this to engineering we would have to upgrade to the latest patch. Is BMC only supported the current patch release now and forswearing all support for past products, no matter how recent? Roy Ashcraft Systems Analyst SAIC [EMAIL PROTECTED] (402) 293-5218 ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are
Re: Remedy Supported Products
If there is serious interest in a bugzilla app (or something similar), please reply to this thread. I would be more than happy to provide the hosting and software installation/maintenance if such a thing would be widely used on http://arswiki.org Axton Grams On 3/9/07, Carey Matthew Black [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Roy, It has been my experience (not only of late, but for several years) that the mantra of support is send us your logs and use the latest patch. The amount of support that they provide for anything except the most current patch of the day is to answer questions with statements like: That might be fixed in a later patch. Have you tried patch x yet? OR What version of the software are you using? (For the Nth time for the same support issue.) OR ( And this one is my favorite) No that is not a bug. Yes the documentation says that, but the actual design is not that. The bug is in the documentation. ( And they even say that when the functionality _changed_ between Major versions and the docs still reflect the old versions behaviour. ) I am beginning to think that the community could benefit from using a Bugzilla (or some other such bug tracking tool) that the whole community could map to BMC bugs and publish to the whole community. Sure it would be more work for us, but we might actually be able to group evaluate a patch instead of having to suffer individually through the same issues over and over again. -- Carey Matthew Black Remedy Skilled Professional (RSP) ARS = Action Request System(Remedy) Love, then teach Solution = People + Process + Tools Fast, Accurate, Cheap Pick two. On 3/9/07, Ashcraft, Roy W. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ** I opened a ticket with BMC yesterday over a problem we are having with Mid-Tier 7.00.00 patch 2. The immediate response, which was expected, was to update to version 7.00.01 patch 1. I responded explaining the business reasons why that is not feasible for our situation. I very quickly received a response indicating that in order for them to escalate this to engineering we would have to upgrade to the latest patch. Is BMC only supported the current patch release now and forswearing all support for past products, no matter how recent? Roy Ashcraft Systems Analyst SAIC [EMAIL PROTECTED] (402) 293-5218 ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are
Re: Remedy Supported Products
Sure Axton, I'd be willing to put in my .002 cents (Verizon math). It's not fun waiting this long to load patches and then still come up with strange issues. The Sun Java Home directory issue. The Timezone.js file issue The ARS 7.0.1 uninstall issue and these are just the ones of late. How about the External Authentication RPC number that needs to be commented out of the ar.cfg file every time you do a patch when your system uses the Active Directory. John J. Reiser Software Development Analyst Remedy Administrator/Developer Lockheed Martin - MS2 The star that burns twice as bright burns half as long. Pay close attention and be illuminated by its brilliance. - paraphrased by me -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Axton Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 5:29 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Remedy Supported Products If there is serious interest in a bugzilla app (or something similar), please reply to this thread. I would be more than happy to provide the hosting and software installation/maintenance if such a thing would be widely used on http://arswiki.org Axton Grams On 3/9/07, Carey Matthew Black [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Roy, It has been my experience (not only of late, but for several years) that the mantra of support is send us your logs and use the latest patch. The amount of support that they provide for anything except the most current patch of the day is to answer questions with statements like: That might be fixed in a later patch. Have you tried patch x yet? OR What version of the software are you using? (For the Nth time for the same support issue.) OR ( And this one is my favorite) No that is not a bug. Yes the documentation says that, but the actual design is not that. The bug is in the documentation. ( And they even say that when the functionality _changed_ between Major versions and the docs still reflect the old versions behaviour. ) I am beginning to think that the community could benefit from using a Bugzilla (or some other such bug tracking tool) that the whole community could map to BMC bugs and publish to the whole community. Sure it would be more work for us, but we might actually be able to group evaluate a patch instead of having to suffer individually through the same issues over and over again. -- Carey Matthew Black Remedy Skilled Professional (RSP) ARS = Action Request System(Remedy) Love, then teach Solution = People + Process + Tools Fast, Accurate, Cheap Pick two. On 3/9/07, Ashcraft, Roy W. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ** I opened a ticket with BMC yesterday over a problem we are having with Mid-Tier 7.00.00 patch 2. The immediate response, which was expected, was to update to version 7.00.01 patch 1. I responded explaining the business reasons why that is not feasible for our situation. I very quickly received a response indicating that in order for them to escalate this to engineering we would have to upgrade to the latest patch. Is BMC only supported the current patch release now and forswearing all support for past products, no matter how recent? Roy Ashcraft Systems Analyst SAIC [EMAIL PROTECTED] (402) 293-5218 __ _ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are
Re: Remedy Supported Products
However, (of course, you were expecting a however), I would like to see a patch that went out and did not cause additional issues. I agree. My understanding is that there are some internal reviews occurring around the topic of patch quality. I can't really go into details, but it is an issue being talked about. In a patch, do they release any new functionality, or simply work to fix issues? Under current policy, patches may only contain defect fixes. Sometimes, though, the distinction between a defect and an enhancement can get downright philosophical - so minor changes to, or an extension of, existing functionality may be present in a patch because it may be the only way to address what is advocated as a defect. -David J. Easter Sr. Product Manager, Service Management Business Unit BMC Software, Inc. The opinions, statements, and/or suggested courses of action expressed in this E-mail do not necessarily reflect those of BMC Software, Inc. My voluntary participation in this forum is not intended to convey a role as a spokesperson, liaison or public relations representative for BMC Software, Inc. -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Opela, Gary L Contr OC-ALC/ITMA Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 12:04 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Remedy Supported Products Hey David, I can understand what you're saying, and it makes sense. I mean, whenever they are at 6.3, they don't want to have to make a new patch for each version of 6.X.X.X.X.X that has ever been put out each time they release a new patch for the most recently supported code lines. However, (of course, you were expecting a however), I would like to see a patch that went out and did not cause additional issues. I'm not sure about 19, but in 18, 20, 21 there were numerous things broken. In 18, they broke the STRSTR function, in 20 they broke flashboards, and some other stuff, and in 21, now, I'm seeing more ppl report issues. In a patch, do they release any new functionality, or simply work to fix issues? IF they are only fixing issues, then the testing should not be that hard, should it? I mean, they are fixing a bug, so they know exactly what code was touched, and they should be able to see any other code that references that code and test it. I'm sorry for venting, it just seems that each new patch released is released almost exclusively to fix issues caused by the previous patch. Then they have to release a new patch to fix issues in that patch. I just want a stable patch so I can upgrade my server from 6.3 w/o any patches, but it hardly seems worth it since we are running stable, and each new patch breaks something that we use. -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Easter, David Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 10:41 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Remedy Supported Products As documented in the BMC Software Product Support Policy http://www.bmc.com/info_center_support/overview/0,,19097_4736154_407375 96,00.html on Support Central: For the purpose of this support policy, a maintenance release is considered part of the main version/release. For example, 3.2.05 is supported as part of the 3.2 release. Once a maintenance release is generally available, further patches to the version prior to the maintenance release are not generated by BMC. Patches are generated for only the latest maintenance release code line. In the case of AR System 7.0x, future patches are only generated against the AR System 7.0.01 code line. Patches are still generated for 6.0.1 and 6.03 as per the policy. Support continues to take calls on 7.0.00 even with the release of 7.0.01. However it is correct that an issue or defect would likely need to be duplicated on the 7.0.01 code stream prior to escalation or submission for a patch. -David J. Easter Sr. Product Manager, Service Management Business Unit BMC Software, Inc. The opinions, statements, and/or suggested courses of action expressed in this E-mail do not necessarily reflect those of BMC Software, Inc. My voluntary participation in this forum is not intended to convey a role as a spokesperson, liaison or public relations representative for BMC Software, Inc. From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ashcraft, Roy W. Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 7:52 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Remedy Supported Products ** I opened a ticket with BMC yesterday over a problem we are having with Mid-Tier 7.00.00 patch 2. The immediate response, which was expected, was to update to version 7.00.01 patch 1. I responded explaining the business reasons why that is not feasible for our situation. I very quickly received a response indicating that in order for them to escalate this to engineering we would have to upgrade to the latest patch. Is BMC only
Re: Remedy Supported Products
If there is sufficient interest, I will set it up. The software is free. Aside from periodic patches and the initial setup (backups, configuration, etc), the maintenance is negligable. Plus, it would complement the Trac/SVN apps I have set up. Speaking of, if anyone wants to start a Remedy related development project (c, java, def, etc), I am open to hosting an svn repository, Trac interface, and maybe a bugzilla app (have to see if there is more interest). The data is backed up up across country nightly, then to tape, which is stored at a secure site. 20 days worth of backups are retained on immediate storage and 20 months worth on tape (at least until the storage needs to be upgraded). The only requirement to use the site is: the software has to be available under an OSI approved license. If interested email me. Axton http://arswiki.org On 3/9/07, Watson, Benjamin A. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Axton, Wanna stand up a Bugzilla portal off of your ARSWiki? I'd be glad to submit a list of RKM related bugs that I've uncovered and fixed. Ben From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Carey Matthew Black Sent: Fri 3/9/2007 10:31 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Remedy Supported Products Roy, It has been my experience (not only of late, but for several years) that the mantra of support is send us your logs and use the latest patch. The amount of support that they provide for anything except the most current patch of the day is to answer questions with statements like: That might be fixed in a later patch. Have you tried patch x yet? OR What version of the software are you using? (For the Nth time for the same support issue.) OR ( And this one is my favorite) No that is not a bug. Yes the documentation says that, but the actual design is not that. The bug is in the documentation. ( And they even say that when the functionality _changed_ between Major versions and the docs still reflect the old versions behaviour. ) I am beginning to think that the community could benefit from using a Bugzilla (or some other such bug tracking tool) that the whole community could map to BMC bugs and publish to the whole community. Sure it would be more work for us, but we might actually be able to group evaluate a patch instead of having to suffer individually through the same issues over and over again. -- Carey Matthew Black Remedy Skilled Professional (RSP) ARS = Action Request System(Remedy) Love, then teach Solution = People + Process + Tools Fast, Accurate, Cheap Pick two. On 3/9/07, Ashcraft, Roy W. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ** I opened a ticket with BMC yesterday over a problem we are having with Mid-Tier 7.00.00 patch 2. The immediate response, which was expected, was to update to version 7.00.01 patch 1. I responded explaining the business reasons why that is not feasible for our situation. I very quickly received a response indicating that in order for them to escalate this to engineering we would have to upgrade to the latest patch. Is BMC only supported the current patch release now and forswearing all support for past products, no matter how recent? Roy Ashcraft Systems Analyst SAIC [EMAIL PROTECTED] (402) 293-5218 ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are
Re: Remedy Supported Products
I would vote for it if it is not to much trouble for you. *Rocky* Rocky Rockwell eMA Team – Remedy Developer [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Ph#1: 214-567-8874 Ph#2: 325-884-1263 Axton wrote: If there is sufficient interest, I will set it up. The software is free. Aside from periodic patches and the initial setup (backups, configuration, etc), the maintenance is negligable. Plus, it would complement the Trac/SVN apps I have set up. Speaking of, if anyone wants to start a Remedy related development project (c, java, def, etc), I am open to hosting an svn repository, Trac interface, and maybe a bugzilla app (have to see if there is more interest). The data is backed up up across country nightly, then to tape, which is stored at a secure site. 20 days worth of backups are retained on immediate storage and 20 months worth on tape (at least until the storage needs to be upgraded). The only requirement to use the site is: the software has to be available under an OSI approved license. If interested email me. Axton http://arswiki.org On 3/9/07, Watson, Benjamin A. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Axton, Wanna stand up a Bugzilla portal off of your ARSWiki? I'd be glad to submit a list of RKM related bugs that I've uncovered and fixed. Ben From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Carey Matthew Black Sent: Fri 3/9/2007 10:31 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Remedy Supported Products Roy, It has been my experience (not only of late, but for several years) that the mantra of support is send us your logs and use the latest patch. The amount of support that they provide for anything except the most current patch of the day is to answer questions with statements like: That might be fixed in a later patch. Have you tried patch x yet? OR What version of the software are you using? (For the Nth time for the same support issue.) OR ( And this one is my favorite) No that is not a bug. Yes the documentation says that, but the actual design is not that. The bug is in the documentation. ( And they even say that when the functionality _changed_ between Major versions and the docs still reflect the old versions behaviour. ) I am beginning to think that the community could benefit from using a Bugzilla (or some other such bug tracking tool) that the whole community could map to BMC bugs and publish to the whole community. Sure it would be more work for us, but we might actually be able to group evaluate a patch instead of having to suffer individually through the same issues over and over again. -- Carey Matthew Black Remedy Skilled Professional (RSP) ARS = Action Request System(Remedy) Love, then teach Solution = People + Process + Tools Fast, Accurate, Cheap Pick two. On 3/9/07, Ashcraft, Roy W. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ** I opened a ticket with BMC yesterday over a problem we are having with Mid-Tier 7.00.00 patch 2. The immediate response, which was expected, was to update to version 7.00.01 patch 1. I responded explaining the business reasons why that is not feasible for our situation. I very quickly received a response indicating that in order for them to escalate this to engineering we would have to upgrade to the latest patch. Is BMC only supported the current patch release now and forswearing all support for past products, no matter how recent? Roy Ashcraft Systems Analyst SAIC [EMAIL PROTECTED] (402) 293-5218 ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are
