[AsburyPark] Back in the day...the ole'den dayz
There was a time when African Americans were not allowed to go onto
the beach in Asbury Park. Oh, i'm sure if we dig deep enough we will
be able to find something on the line of Whites Only Ask some of
the ole' timers about Katherine Harris and how she was the
instrumental force in desegregating the beach. How her husband A
Fair Skin Black Man and talented sand sculptor with one arm who
wore a fez and did not speak, {although he could} so no one really
knew what nationality he was. Do you think if the officials knew that
Lorenzo Harris Sr. was an African American he would have been allowed
on the beach?
Were any of you aware that the Klans had requested to march on the
beach/board walk. {i'm talking about back in the day, stay with me
now}
and the mayor at that time i believe his name was Heinrich dont
quote me on the name, i'll have to go thru my papers to get his
correct name,
anyway; he told the klan if they wanted to march they could march
down Springwood Ave. {He said in hopes of the klans taking him up
on the offer, so the Italians and Blacks would run their hooded
ass'es out of there. They did get a chance to march, they marched
down Ridge Ave to Corlies Ave where they had their headquarters.
Oh, i have lots of stories to tell, but i'll save them for another
time.
Not much changes but the time. There are different forms of racism,
it's still alive today.
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[AsburyPark] Re: crock of shit
Dave: I'm not going to be so presumptuous as to say that you are wrong. All I'm saying is that in the thousands of photos and postcards I've seen, I'm surprised I've never caught a glimpse of the signs you are talking about. Remember too that Asbury Avenue is the beach Asbury Blacks flocked to in the 1800. They were not segregated there. It is the beach they enjoyed. Now there are postings here that racism is a problem in Asbury Park today. Of course, no one can cite any examples. This victimology at its worst. Maybe its because my roots are on the west side, my mother still lives in the house I grew up in. I'm there often. I just don't see the racism. I feel terrible that poeple are disparaging Asbury Park like this. It's BS and don't ever expect me to stand for it. This is the least racist town I've been to. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, David J. Mieras [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: BBif you were born in 1963 and the Civil Rights Act was 1964, how would you certainly know if there were or weren't signs when you were still crawling? I must admit my error w/ Led Zep because I didn't go to that show, but if you ask someone like Mike Dowling, Tookie, or my Brother, they'd remember if there were or weren't signs. The sign on Black Beach was the only rascist posting I ever saw in my life, so I remember it being there. I was 10 in 1962. - Original Message - From: bluebishop82 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 11:58 PM Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: crock of shit Dave: Like most others around here, I have looked at thousands of photos of AP. Anyone have any photos showing a Blacks Only or Whites Only sign on the beach from the 50's? If there was one on every beach, I imaging there must be some pictures. Must say by the time I was there (born 63) there certainly weren't any. Civil Rights Act of 1964, perhaps? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, David J. Mieras [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: He lived in Monroe Towers, right BB? (mailing address) I remember the sign, Blacks Only on Black Beach when I was a kid (born 1952). I've written about that beach in one of my stories on www.greasylake.org . There were Whites Only on the rest of the beaches to the North of the Casino. All the black workers in Ocean Grove had to leave town when they were done w/ work. Ray Kramer was a slick cat. He'd bring his young oriental girlfriend to UPSTAGE once in a while. There were always rumors flying around about the man, but that's normal Asbury Park politics. I don't recall him getting caught up in any crime, but do remember he had a reputation of a poor businessman. - Original Message - From: traderdube [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 10:36 PM Subject: [AsburyPark] crock of shit ah lawyers...BlueBishop wrote... You claim Ray Kramer was a criminal. Please tell me what crime he committed. I will make a prediction: You will answer me with generalities that have no facts. You won't be able to name a crime Ray committed. Of course not! Ray Kramer was the mayor, remember. Wasn't Kramer a teacher when he was elected, lived in a simple home etc.? He made out pretty good post AP though didn't he? What marina in Point Pleasant did the Kramer family own? Name a crime Ray Kramer committedwhat a ridiculous and insulting question. Just as insulting as saying there was no govt mandated beach for blacks. It may not have been mandated by lawyers, but it was mandated by society. Twist your words in court BB, let's try to keep it real here.. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] freedom is just another word
I believe that BlueBishop wasn't trying to deny that the beaches of Asbury were segregated. I believe his point, and I am 100% sure he will confirm or deny, was that there was no official policy concerning the use of Asbury Park's beaches. That the same racist attitudes still exist in the hearts and minds of people of all races is still true. What role racism plays in Asbury Park today is an interesting question and topic for this group. What role racism is playing in the Police Directors gig is what started this thread and is a most pertinent and enduring question and a question that needs to be answered. Vin Scelsa is still on the radio, he does a Saturday night show called Idiots Delight from 8 to midnight and last night he had Daniel Wolf on. Wolf is the author of 4th of July Asbury Park A History of the Promised Land. For those of you who don't know DJ Vin Scelsa. Vin was amongst the original WNEW FM DJs that took FM radio in NYC and created a short lived but much loved genre of radio called free form. Vin was the on air DJ the horrible night that John Lennon was shot. The same night Bruce and the E Streeters performed in Philadelphia and went on with the show after they heard the news half way through the concert. Anyway, Vin is a master interviewer, especially with authors, and his 4 hour interview with Daniel Wolf is a great listen, especially for those who are into Bruce. Wolf brought a recording of Dr Zoom and the Sonic Boom doing a wild psychedelic version of Carol King's Will You Love Me Tomorrow. They also discuss at length the role that racism played in AP. If anyone wants to listen to the interview follow this link, http://mywebpages.comcast.net/iddiot_tree/ and right click on the .zip file. You will be able to download a zipped MP3 file that is the entire show. If anyone needs assistance getting the file, please email me off digest and I will assist you. It is really very easy to download and listen. A couple things I didn't know from last night. The riots in Asbury were not a part of the nationwide riots that hit Newark and LA??? I always thought they were the same, however, according to wolf, AP's riots were 2 years later. Wolf also spoke about fights that occurred after a Frankie Lymon show at Convention Hall that spread to the boardwalk, very interesting. It is pretty amazing that a city with such a vast history as Asbury Parks, a history that literally includes most of the most famous performers, politicians and scene makers from most of the 20th century, has become defined by Bruce Springsteen. I imagine that in 100 years, when they talk about AP, Bruce will still be what they talk about. And that ain't a bad thing, after all, Bruce's early work captures all that Asbury had to offer in the most amazing literate terms, starting of course with Sandy, and sadly bookended by My City In Ruins. There are X number of structures in Asbury Park. Many of which have lied in a dormant or rotting state for way to many years. Of those structures, houses and apartments and commercial buildings, I wonder what percentage of them have changed ownership and either have been rehabilitated, or are being rehabilitated at this time. Even without the waterfront redevelopment, the fact that Asbury is being reconstructed is a hard fact to argue with. When all is said and done, what Asbury Park will look and feel like might just amaze us. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] freedom is just another word
Bruce has never tried to distance himself from Asbury and that endeared the core fans. He always comes back and doesn't forget his roots. That is why Bruce and Asbury are like peanut butter and jelly. In the mid 1960's there were actually black kids I spoke to @ Neptune Intermediate School that had never been to the beach. Just a mile or two West of the ocean and never saw a wave break. The only explanation I have is that they were afraid. I remember this because I started b.s.'ing a young boy about how we go ice skating on the ocean and glide up and down on the frozen waves. He believed me which I thought incredible. I think it was 1964 when the Ocean Grove Grammar School was integrated? Talk about token efforts, our school enrolled Rayford Taylor who was in my 6th grade class. Ocean Grove Elementary had grades K through 6th and Rayford was the only Black. As you can see, change did not come easily even w/ the Federal mandate. It was only six years later that the Asbury riots occurred. White flight was instantaneous from Asbury after the riots. People were scared to shop and visit. The only success for the City after 1970 was the music scene. That is why music must lead the way in the re-birth. Everybody loves music! The New Jersey Music Hall of Fame is working diligently to be a defining presence for future generation. - Original Message - From: traderdube [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 8:49 AM Subject: [AsburyPark] freedom is just another word I believe that BlueBishop wasn't trying to deny that the beaches of Asbury were segregated. I believe his point, and I am 100% sure he will confirm or deny, was that there was no official policy concerning the use of Asbury Park's beaches. That the same racist attitudes still exist in the hearts and minds of people of all races is still true. What role racism plays in Asbury Park today is an interesting question and topic for this group. What role racism is playing in the Police Directors gig is what started this thread and is a most pertinent and enduring question and a question that needs to be answered. Vin Scelsa is still on the radio, he does a Saturday night show called Idiots Delight from 8 to midnight and last night he had Daniel Wolf on. Wolf is the author of 4th of July Asbury Park A History of the Promised Land. For those of you who don't know DJ Vin Scelsa. Vin was amongst the original WNEW FM DJs that took FM radio in NYC and created a short lived but much loved genre of radio called free form. Vin was the on air DJ the horrible night that John Lennon was shot. The same night Bruce and the E Streeters performed in Philadelphia and went on with the show after they heard the news half way through the concert. Anyway, Vin is a master interviewer, especially with authors, and his 4 hour interview with Daniel Wolf is a great listen, especially for those who are into Bruce. Wolf brought a recording of Dr Zoom and the Sonic Boom doing a wild psychedelic version of Carol King's Will You Love Me Tomorrow. They also discuss at length the role that racism played in AP. If anyone wants to listen to the interview follow this link, http://mywebpages.comcast.net/iddiot_tree/ and right click on the .zip file. You will be able to download a zipped MP3 file that is the entire show. If anyone needs assistance getting the file, please email me off digest and I will assist you. It is really very easy to download and listen. A couple things I didn't know from last night. The riots in Asbury were not a part of the nationwide riots that hit Newark and LA??? I always thought they were the same, however, according to wolf, AP's riots were 2 years later. Wolf also spoke about fights that occurred after a Frankie Lymon show at Convention Hall that spread to the boardwalk, very interesting. It is pretty amazing that a city with such a vast history as Asbury Parks, a history that literally includes most of the most famous performers, politicians and scene makers from most of the 20th century, has become defined by Bruce Springsteen. I imagine that in 100 years, when they talk about AP, Bruce will still be what they talk about. And that ain't a bad thing, after all, Bruce's early work captures all that Asbury had to offer in the most amazing literate terms, starting of course with Sandy, and sadly bookended by My City In Ruins. There are X number of structures in Asbury Park. Many of which have lied in a dormant or rotting state for way to many years. Of those structures, houses and apartments and commercial buildings, I wonder what percentage of them have changed ownership and either have been rehabilitated, or are being rehabilitated at this time. Even without the waterfront redevelopment, the fact that Asbury is being reconstructed is a hard fact to argue with. When all is said and done, what Asbury Park will look and feel like might just
[AsburyPark] Re:freedom just another word
In my eyes Freedom is a very Special word that came hard for alot ofpeople some alot harder than others.A person of a differant color skin was treated differant it wasn't fair by no means.I can only imagine how it must of been I would have been shot I wouldn't have put up with it.Being Station in West Berlin at one Time going over to East Berlin seeing people stand on line for a Loaf of Bread.We throw it away here left right.Than seeing them shot if they try cross the border or a mine blowing them up.Or the Russian',East Germans just shooting at them in danger zone.playing games with them.I look at Freedom at a differant way since then.I am 43 people in my genaration our Grandparents didn't waste old Bread they turn into tomorrow's breakfask,lunch or dinner.You ate or you didn't eat.Know alot parents give there kids several choice's for Breakfast ,Lunch Dinner.Alot of Family's the Husband Wife have to work to make it but we still waste alot.We have alot of Freedom.Sometimes in City,County,State Goverment Employment there is to much Freedom for workers to do what they what that comes out of our tax dollars not just in Asbury but in alot of towns.This is the reason crime got so out of hand in Asbury in the last to 2 decades both parents working or one parent working on 2 jobs.City Employment having to much Freedom letting this crime get out of hand.So FREEDOM is will always be specail to me I granted. James Grabe Veterans Alliance Asbury Park N.J. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: crock of shit
Title: AOL Email Sometimes people don't see racism as it is because they are on the other end of it. SPONSORED LINKS United state patent United state flag United state patent search Trademark united state United state quarters Asbury park nj YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "AsburyPark" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: crock of shit
.And they've never walked a mile in your shoes, either. Sharon Boone [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note: message attached Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ---BeginMessage--- Title: AOL Email Sometimes people don't see racism as it is because they are on the other end of it. ---End Message---
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: crock of shit
Title: AOL Email You've got that right, and will never try to walk in them,hahahhah YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "AsburyPark" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: State Aid to Construct AP Schools...
So Asbury Park loses all around is what I'm getting. Or does the City win? Sharon Boone [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note: message attached Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ---BeginMessage--- Dan, Good point. That article I posted seemed to use all three interchangeably. Can you tell by the article which one Long Branch is? Could it be a combination of all 3? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, bluebishop82 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: JJ: See below. I thought LB was tax abated. Did this change? People use tax abatements and exemptions interchangeably, however, they are not the same thing. An exemption is calculated by exempting a portion of the assessed value, while an abatement is an amount directly credited against your tax bill. While they both try to achieve the same end, they are not the same. Also, I find it somewhat ametuerish that purportedly knowledgeable people use exemptions and/or abatements with PILOT. PILOT are payments in lieu of taxes when the property is TOTALLY EXEMPT from conventional taxes. That's like the WTC and Times Square both situated on state property, thus exempt. While I am nitpicking, I think it is telling that some dealing with this don't have a complete grasp of the concepts. ---End Message---
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Kramer
Illegal immigrants are another issue, entirely! Why aren't the Asbury Park Police arresting them from being in htis country and this city, illegally? Who says that low income people won't take one of those jobs they do? Number 1, the LAWs aren't being enforced. These people are being exploited just as blacks were exploited for 350 years during slavery when their labor was free, because we were property and sexually abused because I would'nt be as light as I am if the abuse hadn't gone on! I can't say exactly, what the hell I am, other than a mutt! White people just don't get it! We're all seen as welfare people when the exact opposite is true!Blacks are a minority, 12% of the population and 80% of the incarcerated. What's wrong with that picture? Profiling? Certainly! Red-lined? Absolutely! Under-educated? Ridiculously SO! Get rid of the illegals and watch unemployment go DOWN! Either give them working papers or visas, organize them into a union, give them decent housing or send them back! This is a form of genocide against them; a group that have been on the North American Continent, thousands of years before any white person set foot here and bagan this journey of exploitation that some whites are so good at! Sharon Boone [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note: message attached Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ---BeginMessage--- --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, bluebishop82 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Terry Weldon is much like Dick Nixon to me. He did a bad thing in Ocean Township, but that doesn't affect the good he did here in Asbury Park. Two different things. I fear there are people just hoping that it will come out that Terry did something wrong in Asbury (I don't mean you). I don't hope that. I don't think those people care too much for Asbury's reputation and legacy. If Terry did something wrong here it would hurt AP - I could never hope for that. Not that we hope for it, its just that we then can have some rational reason for the one-sided deal that was signed. The only other alternatives are inexperience, myopia, etc. Asbury Park already has more low income and affordable housing than any other town in Monmouth County. There is no shortage here. Why build more - you don't bring sand to the beach, do you? We should press for low income and affordable housing in towns where there isn't any - Asbury Park has been carrying far more than its fair share long enough. True, but I think there is a concern about affordable housing disappearing through gentrification. With AP comprising about 70-80% renters, I don;t think there is an immediate need for affordable rental housing. I would support affordable home ownership programs however, since I beleive that is the key - giving people an equity stake in how the area is maintained and progresses. While we're at it, how about strict enforcement on landlords who let their properties decline, and especially those who encourage illegal tenancies (overcrowding). Nassau and Suffolk counties are finally addressing this problem however, some thought must be given to the soluton, i.e., what do you do with the illegals living there. IN AP, every renter's name must be on the CofO. We all know this is not the case in many instances where we see 10 or more adults living in 1 apartment. Social issues aside, its nice to be nice, but this ain't going to do any one any good. Call code enforcement and demand that they act. ---End Message---
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Kramer
Title: AOL Email It says in the press, that the guy who displayed the flag said it was freedom of speech. So why not all of us start hanging black panther flags, islamic flags, flags ex-ing out other genders if this is freedom of speech.Let's make it freedom of speech for us all. Remember there is no evidence of racism here in asbury park, right blue bishop? YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "AsburyPark" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [AsburyPark] freedom is just another word
What I find so remarkable here is instead of facing the racism, it's explained away, which is why riots as you call them occur! You keep backing a certain group into a corner, noting the history of slavery and the spewing of propaganda that says all men are created equal, then you turn around and run as fast as you can to get to your safe little havens AWAY from that, which you won't acknowledge. It's hypocritical to say the least! Sharon Boone [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note: message attached Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ---BeginMessage--- I believe that BlueBishop wasn't trying to deny that the beaches of Asbury were segregated. I believe his point, and I am 100% sure he will confirm or deny, was that there was no official policy concerning the use of Asbury Park's beaches. That the same racist attitudes still exist in the hearts and minds of people of all races is still true. What role racism plays in Asbury Park today is an interesting question and topic for this group. What role racism is playing in the Police Directors gig is what started this thread and is a most pertinent and enduring question and a question that needs to be answered. Vin Scelsa is still on the radio, he does a Saturday night show called Idiots Delight from 8 to midnight and last night he had Daniel Wolf on. Wolf is the author of 4th of July Asbury Park A History of the Promised Land. For those of you who don't know DJ Vin Scelsa. Vin was amongst the original WNEW FM DJs that took FM radio in NYC and created a short lived but much loved genre of radio called free form. Vin was the on air DJ the horrible night that John Lennon was shot. The same night Bruce and the E Streeters performed in Philadelphia and went on with the show after they heard the news half way through the concert. Anyway, Vin is a master interviewer, especially with authors, and his 4 hour interview with Daniel Wolf is a great listen, especially for those who are into Bruce. Wolf brought a recording of Dr Zoom and the Sonic Boom doing a wild psychedelic version of Carol King's Will You Love Me Tomorrow. They also discuss at length the role that racism played in AP. If anyone wants to listen to the interview follow this link, http://mywebpages.comcast.net/iddiot_tree/ and right click on the .zip file. You will be able to download a zipped MP3 file that is the entire show. If anyone needs assistance getting the file, please email me off digest and I will assist you. It is really very easy to download and listen. A couple things I didn't know from last night. The riots in Asbury were not a part of the nationwide riots that hit Newark and LA??? I always thought they were the same, however, according to wolf, AP's riots were 2 years later. Wolf also spoke about fights that occurred after a Frankie Lymon show at Convention Hall that spread to the boardwalk, very interesting. It is pretty amazing that a city with such a vast history as Asbury Parks, a history that literally includes most of the most famous performers, politicians and scene makers from most of the 20th century, has become defined by Bruce Springsteen. I imagine that in 100 years, when they talk about AP, Bruce will still be what they talk about. And that ain't a bad thing, after all, Bruce's early work captures all that Asbury had to offer in the most amazing literate terms, starting of course with Sandy, and sadly bookended by My City In Ruins. There are X number of structures in Asbury Park. Many of which have lied in a dormant or rotting state for way to many years. Of those structures, houses and apartments and commercial buildings, I wonder what percentage of them have changed ownership and either have been rehabilitated, or are being rehabilitated at this time. Even without the waterfront redevelopment, the fact that Asbury is being reconstructed is a hard fact to argue with. When all is said and done, what Asbury Park will look and feel like might just amaze us. ---End Message---
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: crock of shit
What are you not hearing? I have friends on the West-Side too, 3rd, 4th Ave., but if you go onto Springwood, Bordan, DeWitt, shoot, I wouldn't want to live there. It looks like a garbage dump! Sharon Boone [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note: message attached Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ---BeginMessage--- Dave: I'm not going to be so presumptuous as to say that you are wrong. All I'm saying is that in the thousands of photos and postcards I've seen, I'm surprised I've never caught a glimpse of the signs you are talking about. Remember too that Asbury Avenue is the beach Asbury Blacks flocked to in the 1800. They were not segregated there. It is the beach they enjoyed. Now there are postings here that racism is a problem in Asbury Park today. Of course, no one can cite any examples. This victimology at its worst. Maybe its because my roots are on the west side, my mother still lives in the house I grew up in. I'm there often. I just don't see the racism. I feel terrible that poeple are disparaging Asbury Park like this. It's BS and don't ever expect me to stand for it. This is the least racist town I've been to. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, David J. Mieras [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: BBif you were born in 1963 and the Civil Rights Act was 1964, how would you certainly know if there were or weren't signs when you were still crawling? I must admit my error w/ Led Zep because I didn't go to that show, but if you ask someone like Mike Dowling, Tookie, or my Brother, they'd remember if there were or weren't signs. The sign on Black Beach was the only rascist posting I ever saw in my life, so I remember it being there. I was 10 in 1962. - Original Message - From: bluebishop82 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 11:58 PM Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: crock of shit Dave: Like most others around here, I have looked at thousands of photos of AP. Anyone have any photos showing a Blacks Only or Whites Only sign on the beach from the 50's? If there was one on every beach, I imaging there must be some pictures. Must say by the time I was there (born 63) there certainly weren't any. Civil Rights Act of 1964, perhaps? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, David J. Mieras [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: He lived in Monroe Towers, right BB? (mailing address) I remember the sign, Blacks Only on Black Beach when I was a kid (born 1952). I've written about that beach in one of my stories on www.greasylake.org . There were Whites Only on the rest of the beaches to the North of the Casino. All the black workers in Ocean Grove had to leave town when they were done w/ work. Ray Kramer was a slick cat. He'd bring his young oriental girlfriend to UPSTAGE once in a while. There were always rumors flying around about the man, but that's normal Asbury Park politics. I don't recall him getting caught up in any crime, but do remember he had a reputation of a poor businessman. - Original Message - From: traderdube [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 10:36 PM Subject: [AsburyPark] crock of shit ah lawyers...BlueBishop wrote... You claim Ray Kramer was a criminal. Please tell me what crime he committed. I will make a prediction: You will answer me with generalities that have no facts. You won't be able to name a crime Ray committed. Of course not! Ray Kramer was the mayor, remember. Wasn't Kramer a teacher when he was elected, lived in a simple home etc.? He made out pretty good post AP though didn't he? What marina in Point Pleasant did the Kramer family own? Name a crime Ray Kramer committedwhat a ridiculous and insulting question. Just as insulting as saying there was no govt mandated beach for blacks. It may not have been mandated by lawyers, but it was mandated by society. Twist your words in court BB, let's try to keep it real here.. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links ---End Message---
Re: [AsburyPark] Back in the day...the ole'den dayz
I've never heard that story but I wuldn't dispute it. There was an
African-American newspaper here edited by Roosevelt Elmore, Sr. Worked with the
son at Bell Labs and now I know why he was so militant! I always thought he had
a chip on his shoulder. Someone gave my husband a photo copy of an issue and
the SAME crap that was happening in 1964 is magnified in 2005! I swear, photos
of junk yards where black kids had to pass to get to Bangs Ave. school, are now
the site of the new Neptune Early education site on Memorial drive but Atkins
Ave. homes were torn down by Neptune authorities to make way for a new project
and that land stayed dormant until recently. I moved to the state in 1970 and
the burned out carcasses of Springwood Ave. were here when I arrived and that
land lay vacant until recently. When I was on the Board of Adjustment, Konvitz
sent his construction manager to ask for a variance to complete the project.
They found out that they didn't need a variance because the use was the same,
home construction. All they wanted was to change the use from 2 bedroom to 3
bedroom. Not a problem! Also during the testimony of the manager he revealed
that that area because it wasn't being used had become a dumping ground for
stoves, refrigerators and large refuse items that before any construction could
be started, the land had to be dug up, they had to remove these items to lay
down sewer, gas and electric lines. See what happens in the ghetto? Any damn
thing goes because those people are there and ther's nothing they can do
about it! Powerless is what the people in that area are. Your tax dollars at
work! Where were the police, code enforcement? Where? Remember, this ws before
Lou Jordan came onto the force! My commission expired 12/31/99. Check the
records!
Sharon Boone
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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---BeginMessage---
There was a time when African Americans were not allowed to go onto
the beach in Asbury Park. Oh, i'm sure if we dig deep enough we will
be able to find something on the line of Whites Only Ask some of
the ole' timers about Katherine Harris and how she was the
instrumental force in desegregating the beach. How her husband A
Fair Skin Black Man and talented sand sculptor with one arm who
wore a fez and did not speak, {although he could} so no one really
knew what nationality he was. Do you think if the officials knew that
Lorenzo Harris Sr. was an African American he would have been allowed
on the beach?
Were any of you aware that the Klans had requested to march on the
beach/board walk. {i'm talking about back in the day, stay with me
now}
and the mayor at that time i believe his name was Heinrich dont
quote me on the name, i'll have to go thru my papers to get his
correct name,
anyway; he told the klan if they wanted to march they could march
down Springwood Ave. {He said in hopes of the klans taking him up
on the offer, so the Italians and Blacks would run their hooded
ass'es out of there. They did get a chance to march, they marched
down Ridge Ave to Corlies Ave where they had their headquarters.
Oh, i have lots of stories to tell, but i'll save them for another
time.
Not much changes but the time. There are different forms of racism,
it's still alive today.
---End Message---
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: crock of shit
I also remember back in the fall 04' when the gay marraiges were being performed at City Hall, that gay people were asking for rights that blacks had fought for, with their blood, sweat and tears, so move on Springwood and see what kind of rights the blacks have over there, okay? Sharon Boone [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note: message attached Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ---BeginMessage--- BBif you were born in 1963 and the Civil Rights Act was 1964, how would you certainly know if there were or weren't signs when you were still crawling? I must admit my error w/ Led Zep because I didn't go to that show, but if you ask someone like Mike Dowling, Tookie, or my Brother, they'd remember if there were or weren't signs. The sign on Black Beach was the only rascist posting I ever saw in my life, so I remember it being there. I was 10 in 1962. - Original Message - From: bluebishop82 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 11:58 PM Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: crock of shit Dave: Like most others around here, I have looked at thousands of photos of AP. Anyone have any photos showing a Blacks Only or Whites Only sign on the beach from the 50's? If there was one on every beach, I imaging there must be some pictures. Must say by the time I was there (born 63) there certainly weren't any. Civil Rights Act of 1964, perhaps? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, David J. Mieras [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: He lived in Monroe Towers, right BB? (mailing address) I remember the sign, Blacks Only on Black Beach when I was a kid (born 1952). I've written about that beach in one of my stories on www.greasylake.org . There were Whites Only on the rest of the beaches to the North of the Casino. All the black workers in Ocean Grove had to leave town when they were done w/ work. Ray Kramer was a slick cat. He'd bring his young oriental girlfriend to UPSTAGE once in a while. There were always rumors flying around about the man, but that's normal Asbury Park politics. I don't recall him getting caught up in any crime, but do remember he had a reputation of a poor businessman. - Original Message - From: traderdube [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 10:36 PM Subject: [AsburyPark] crock of shit ah lawyers...BlueBishop wrote... You claim Ray Kramer was a criminal. Please tell me what crime he committed. I will make a prediction: You will answer me with generalities that have no facts. You won't be able to name a crime Ray committed. Of course not! Ray Kramer was the mayor, remember. Wasn't Kramer a teacher when he was elected, lived in a simple home etc.? He made out pretty good post AP though didn't he? What marina in Point Pleasant did the Kramer family own? Name a crime Ray Kramer committedwhat a ridiculous and insulting question. Just as insulting as saying there was no govt mandated beach for blacks. It may not have been mandated by lawyers, but it was mandated by society. Twist your words in court BB, let's try to keep it real here.. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links ---End Message---
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: crock of @[EMAIL PROTECTED]
What are they doing with UEZ funds? Who are THEY? Sharon Boone [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note: message attached Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ---BeginMessage--- Title: AOL Email YES, AND THEY ARE STILL DOING IT WITH THE UEZ FUNDS. ---End Message---
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: crock of @[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Title: AOL Email The council. they cheated us out of the uez funds,all in line for the funds were black businesses and female owned businesses except for michals. He got the funds, sonny got the funds too, but only as a token. They knew he wouldn't last after they set up other eateries on the same street. They blackballed or shall i say whiteballed him. But after those two got the funds, they shut the program down and decided they wanted to restructure the program, so that the blacks couldn't get any of the funds. They even gave the swicthplate factory a grant for the money and a relocation grant. But the people here that had been here could get anything. They did give us a $5000 shut fee. Told us to take it or leave it. Do what you want to do with it ultimatum. YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "AsburyPark" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[AsburyPark] Re: Kramer
I guess we now all know where MOG lives. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It says in the press, that the guy who displayed the flag said it was freedom of speech. So why not all of us start hanging black panther flags, islamic flags, flags ex-ing out other genders if this is freedom of speech.Let's make it freedom of speech for us all. Remember there is no evidence of racism here in asbury park, right blue bishop? Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Kramer
Title: AOL Email mog ? not familiar with this term YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "AsburyPark" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[AsburyPark] Re: Size of A/P
If you look A.P. in square miles and the size of our Police Force we have I
believe more than other towns have in there square miles.We have alot of Police
Officers that really go out but there a__ and care a great about the people
in Asbury Park there is also that click just like any job has.That is
againest change that what a Police Director or Chief going to have to do.Make
changes in that police department alot of people doing what they what. To make
people buy stay keep this builders here building.I walk these streets see
the drugs coming back if the drug dealers know they can get away with it.It
already started when they took Jordan powers away.A Police Officer job isn't a
easy one they have to protect us from many things often goes unapprecatied
until something bad happens.When I made a speech at City Council when I donated
a Flag for our Waterfront from the VFW.I made sure the Police Fireman was in
it because there jobs often go on unapprecatied.They are a large part of the
people at home here in the U.S. that give us the Freedom we have today.
James Grabe
Veteran Alliance
Asbury Park N.J.
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If you look at the size of Asbury Park in square miles I am not sure what it
is.And if
you look a the amount of drugs prostitutes we have alot.We had here way
before Lou Jordan came here.A police officer job isn't a easy one.We got alot
of this drugs prostitutes from past Directors Cheifs letting it get out of
hand.Just like the city let the Veteran Memorial get out of hand by not
maintaining it.They weedwhack the day before Veterans Memorial Day the rest
the year the let all the weeds go wild.I have alot pictures.The City got a
grant to fix it up several years go I still havn't seen work done there yet.My
point is you let employees do what they what they will.If Reidy made the
decison not to keep Jordan it something he has to live with.I am sure it wasn't
easy I know Reidy very well he does live in Asbury I painted his whole house.If
Keady Johnson go with it I respect there points up thier on that
Council.Voted for both of them.The other 2 up there on that Council I have no
respect for every time Jim Keady spoke it was pissing Bruno off.At the last
Council meeting.I sat in the front row seen Bruno face.Bruno thought I was
laughing at Keady I was laughing at Bruno I Voted for Keady support Keady not
Bruno.They don't like Jim Keady speaking because he comes up with alot good
points.Keady Johnson will go on Maureen show the other won't they have things
to hide.Sanders he is just a Joke.Never been to a Veterans or Memorail Day
since he has been Mayor skip's out on alot of other things pawns it off and
Bruno.Lofferdo no comment at this time.This new Director or Chief will meet
me.And if I tell him things they are important does nothing he will explain
why to me or some else.I will be taking over a Officers Postion in my Veterans
Allincae soon will be keeping a eye on things when in town if I move out I
will turn City Employees if I see them breaking the Law have picture's taken
of them.[City Council also comes under city employees] I am not worried about
Keady or Johnson they are both postive for this city.I am sure alot people
remember that cop show Barettea remember his saying {Don't do the Crime if you
can't do the Time}
James P Grabe
Veteran Alliance
Past Commander
VFW Post 1333
Asbury Park N.J.
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Re: [AsburyPark] Re: crock of @[EMAIL PROTECTED]
So what are the state guidelines? File a class-action lawsuit and find out first what your rights are. See, I told you power breeds arrogance. Bruno was arrested for DUI in Neptune, but had his case thrown out in Rumson! Why was the case done in Rumson? Did Tom Gilmour fix it? Inquiring minds want to know! Sharon Boone [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note: message attached Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ---BeginMessage--- Title: AOL Email The council. they cheated us out of the uez funds,all in line for the funds were black businesses and female owned businesses except for michals. He got the funds, sonny got the funds too, but only as a token. They knew he wouldn't last after they set up other eateries on the same street. They blackballed or shall i say whiteballed him. But after those two got the funds, they shut the program down and decided they wanted to restructure the program, so that the blacks couldn't get any of the funds. They even gave the swicthplate factory a grant for the money and a relocation grant. But the people here that had been here could get anything. They did give us a $5000 shut fee. Told us to take it or leave it. Do what you want to do with it ultimatum. ---End Message---
Re: [AsburyPark] Digest Number 1361
Allan - Thanks for asking about Jordan. I say Jordan getting dumped issad because so much of the situation is not his fault and much of what looks like a worsening situation is actually a more aggressive police force and a worsening crime situation throughout the neighboring towns as well. Jordan was hired to give us two for the price of one - a chief and a director. The fault wasn't Jordan's, it was the labor attorney who approved our recruiting and hiring for such a position.But alot of the animosity toward Jordaneruptedafter the city breached that whole career track that kept the incentivegoing forcops who could hope that someday they'd make chief.By putting someone from outside their rank and filein the top post - not even a chief - the city was short circuiting the process. I know we had a public safety director, Dowling,prior to Jordan. But I wasn't around when he was appointed and don't know how the chain of command was run. The APP todayin the editorial bears out the rise in area crime numbers - as well as Asbury's disproportionate numbers. But it's not just risingin Asbury. When I moved here in '99, I was warned that most of the crimes were not being reported in the news, so I don't know whether that also went for the official crime reports. If it did, then you can see why the numbers would've gone up. Another reason I find this sad is that Jordan works verylong hours and has always responded to my questions and requests. I feel hesincerely tried to do a good job. Jordan told me some thingspersonally that he wasn't ready to go public with. This was just after the traffic stop incident blew up. I'veleft a message with his secretary to invite him onto the show. I hope he decides to do so. Maureen In a message dated 7/29/2005 2:08:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com writes: -Original Message-From: Allan Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.comSent: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 04:49:42 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [AsburyPark] Why Support Jordan?Asbury has improved, if the crime rate hasn't (as reports state) he must be held accountable. I am dissapointed that the mayor says he does not agree with this. Again if the man can get the job done, and he has had plenty of time, then someone else should be brought in. Congrats to the city manager for taking this action.On the restore radio site it says this is "sad news". Maybe Maureen would like to define sad. Sad because the man is losing his job or is this sad for Asbury? Maybe Maureen has additional information? Speak up - It's America!!Maureen NevinRestore Radio 88.1FM - "5" Years on the Radio!!Asbury Park's Own Live Talk Show601 Bangs AvenueListen 8 - 10 PM Thursdays on 88.1FM orListen Live or Later on the Web http://www.restoreradio.com/Call the show 732-775-0821Call me 732-774-0779 fax 502-0463 SPONSORED LINKS United state patent United state flag United state patent search Trademark united state United state quarters Asbury park nj YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "AsburyPark" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [AsburyPark] Digest Number 1361
In a message dated 7/29/2005 2:08:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com writes: Third, most Downtown businesses have been burglarized under Lou Jordan, some several times. He has made no changes to try to combat that. Oops, almost forgot. My read on the burglaries is that we're in for a lot more. Like Willy Sutton said, you go where the money is. So as more money moves in, more criminals will be attracted. The best deterrent would be more bodies walking around. Speak up - It's America!!Maureen NevinRestore Radio 88.1FM - "5" Years on the Radio!!Asbury Park's Own Live Talk Show601 Bangs AvenueListen 8 - 10 PM Thursdays on 88.1FM orListen Live or Later on the Web http://www.restoreradio.com/Call the show 732-775-0821Call me 732-774-0779 fax 502-0463 YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "AsburyPark" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: crock of @[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Title: AOL Email Of course he fixed it. thus a stronger presence in the uez for him.they are scratching each others backs as most crooked politicians do. YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "AsburyPark" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: crock of @[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Title: AOL Email They switched it around so well, that the guidelines have been changed also. John hamilton put this programtogether, so how could they get rid of him from uez and change the whole policy.It was supposed to be for business people who couldn't get loans from other institutions. And danny yim, i guess that how you spell it, the neighborhood hair product salesman on memorial drive, told us he didn't want start up businesses in asbury park. YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "AsburyPark" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [AsburyPark] Digest Number 1361
In a message dated 7/29/2005 2:08:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com writes: I heard that terry Reidy has moved from rumson to an apartment here. bet he goes home on the weekends, though! Wink-wink! Sharon - Terry's from Montclair. He bought a house here on 4th Ave. Are you confusing him with Tom Gilmour, who lives in Fair Haven? Maureen Speak up - It's America!!Maureen NevinRestore Radio 88.1FM - "5" Years on the Radio!!Asbury Park's Own Live Talk Show601 Bangs AvenueListen 8 - 10 PM Thursdays on 88.1FM orListen Live or Later on the Web http://www.restoreradio.com/Call the show 732-775-0821Call me 732-774-0779 fax 502-0463 YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "AsburyPark" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [AsburyPark] Digest Number 1366
I'll definitely listen, thanks for the link. Dan was due to be on my show in August and postponed due to family obligations. I hope he's not deterred by Henry Vacarro, who expressed an interest in debatingDan on the sections Dan wrote aboutHenry and his family. Henry was understandably upset at first because Dan had nevercontacted him before the book was published. I think this is an interesting approach Dan has taken, writing from published records, so I'm eager to interview him. Maureen In a message dated 7/31/2005 10:32:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com writes: Anyway, Vin is a master interviewer, especially with authors, and his 4 hour interview with Daniel Wolf is a great listen, especially for those who are into Bruce. Wolf brought a recording of Dr Zoom and the Sonic Boom doing a wild psychedelic version of Carol King's Will You Love Me Tomorrow. They also discuss at length the role that racism played in AP. If anyone wants to listen to the interview follow this link, http://mywebpages.comcast.net/iddiot_tree/ and right click on the .zip file. You will be able to download a zipped MP3 file that is the entire show. If anyone needs assistance getting thefile, please email me off digest and I will assist you. It is really very easy to download and listen. Speak up - It's America!!Maureen NevinRestore Radio 88.1FM - "5" Years on the Radio!!Asbury Park's Own Live Talk Show601 Bangs AvenueListen 8 - 10 PM Thursdays on 88.1FM orListen Live or Later on the Web http://www.restoreradio.com/Call the show 732-775-0821Call me 732-774-0779 fax 502-0463 YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "AsburyPark" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
