Re: [AsburyPark] Re: State Aid to Construct AP Schools...
So Asbury Park loses all around is what I'm getting. Or does the City win? Sharon Boone [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note: message attached Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ---BeginMessage--- Dan, Good point. That article I posted seemed to use all three interchangeably. Can you tell by the article which one Long Branch is? Could it be a combination of all 3? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, bluebishop82 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: JJ: See below. I thought LB was tax abated. Did this change? People use tax abatements and exemptions interchangeably, however, they are not the same thing. An exemption is calculated by exempting a portion of the assessed value, while an abatement is an amount directly credited against your tax bill. While they both try to achieve the same end, they are not the same. Also, I find it somewhat ametuerish that purportedly knowledgeable people use exemptions and/or abatements with PILOT. PILOT are payments in lieu of taxes when the property is TOTALLY EXEMPT from conventional taxes. That's like the WTC and Times Square both situated on state property, thus exempt. While I am nitpicking, I think it is telling that some dealing with this don't have a complete grasp of the concepts. ---End Message---
[AsburyPark] Re: State Aid to Construct AP Schools...
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, bluebishop82 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: JJ: See below. I thought LB was tax abated. Did this change? People use tax abatements and exemptions interchangeably, however, they are not the same thing. An exemption is calculated by exempting a portion of the assessed value, while an abatement is an amount directly credited against your tax bill. While they both try to achieve the same end, they are not the same. Also, I find it somewhat ametuerish that purportedly knowledgeable people use exemptions and/or abatements with PILOT. PILOT are payments in lieu of taxes when the property is TOTALLY EXEMPT from conventional taxes. That's like the WTC and Times Square both situated on state property, thus exempt. While I am nitpicking, I think it is telling that some dealing with this don't have a complete grasp of the concepts. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: State Aid to Construct AP Schools...
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, bluebishop82 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dan, Good point. That article I posted seemed to use all three interchangeably. Can you tell by the article which one Long Branch is? Could it be a combination of all 3? I suspect that it is an EXEMPTION and the misnomer of PILOT is used erroneously. I think the article uses ABATEMENT incorrectly because the taxes are effectively being abated, or lessened. What LB is using sounds like the NYC programs, for instance, ICIP (Industrial and Commercial Incentive Program). There are different terms, but generally, the assessed value of the new improvements are 100% Exempt for a period and then the EXEMPTION declines by 20% per year. While PILOT is thrown around to mean than someone is paying less than conventional taxes, that is not its true meaning and in fact, someone can pay PILOT that can be equal or greater than conventional taxes (in theory but not practice). Again, PILOT is more often used to denote the payments made in lieu of taxes for a property that is not subject (100% exempt) from taxes, typically owned by the taxing authority or other governmental entity. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: State Aid to Construct AP Schools...
I'm trying to figure this stuff out for myself. Take a look at this quote from the article: In the first full tax year after completion of the Project, no pay ment in lieu of taxes shall be required; in the second tax year, 20 percent of taxes otherwise due shall be paid by the Redeveloper; in the third tax year, 40 percent of taxes otherwise due shall be paid by the Redeveloper; in the fourth tax year, 60 percent of taxes otherwise due shall be paid by the Redeveloper; in the fifth tax year, 80 percent of taxes otherwise due shall be paid by the redeveloper. Since they are talking about percentage of taxes otherwise due that tips us off that isn't a PILOT because PILOTS are not connected to the actual taxes owed (so the percentatge is the tip off that it isn't a PILOT). Am I right on that? If the tax payments are a percentage of taxes otherwise due doesn't that suggest an abatement (the amount otherwise due being the normal tax rate and assessment, therefore excluding exemption because they aren't declaring part of the property exempt from taxation). Am I right there? Hope I score well! Isn't really my area. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, bluebishop82 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dan, Good point. That article I posted seemed to use all three interchangeably. Can you tell by the article which one Long Branch is? Could it be a combination of all 3? I suspect that it is an EXEMPTION and the misnomer of PILOT is used erroneously. I think the article uses ABATEMENT incorrectly because the taxes are effectively being abated, or lessened. What LB is using sounds like the NYC programs, for instance, ICIP (Industrial and Commercial Incentive Program). There are different terms, but generally, the assessed value of the new improvements are 100% Exempt for a period and then the EXEMPTION declines by 20% per year. While PILOT is thrown around to mean than someone is paying less than conventional taxes, that is not its true meaning and in fact, someone can pay PILOT that can be equal or greater than conventional taxes (in theory but not practice). Again, PILOT is more often used to denote the payments made in lieu of taxes for a property that is not subject (100% exempt) from taxes, typically owned by the taxing authority or other governmental entity. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: State Aid to Construct AP Schools...
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, bluebishop82 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm trying to figure this stuff out for myself. PILOT says it all, which again is an acronym (payment in lieu of taxes), and I guess some use it too freely to suggest when full taxes are not being paid. Maybe NJ, but in NY, PILOT is always used when the property itself is fully exempt from taxation (i.e. government-owned). For instance, let's say AP kept ownership of the waterfront property itself but leased it to the developers for 99 years (Times Square, Battery Park City, etc.). 9As an aside, I am unsure about NJ law but under NY law condominiums cannot be built on leased land, except under special legislation ala Battery Park City.) The property would be 100% exempt from taxes because the city owns it. However, AP wants to get paid for taxes otherwise due so it works out a PILOT. Whether that PILOT reflects what full taxes would be or something less, is irrelevant. Simply because the property IS NOT SUBJECT TO TAXES makes whatever the payments AP receives PILOT payments. PILOT has nothing to do with exemptions or abatements, however, more often than not, PILOTs wind up being less than full taxation (if not exempt). That was exactly Guiliani's problem with the WTC before 9/11 because its PILOTs were much less than what full taxes would have been (the property was owned by PANYNJ until a few months before 9/11. I guess I am being a purist. Again, officially, an abatement is a dollar amount that one can directly deduct from their tax bill. An exemption is a dollar amount which reduces the assessed value, which in turn effectively reduces the tax bill. To finally answer your question, it is not clear what LB is using. If I use what AP is doing it is not an exemption or abatement. They simply use formulas to calculate something less than full taxes. Taking a percentage (35% in AP's case) and applying it to the assessment is not a true abatement in the sense of the word. To me it is more of an exemption. It is certainly not a PILOT (although I think the underlying law calls it that), because the property is subject to taxes. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: State Aid to Construct AP Schools...
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is certainly not a PILOT (although I think the underlying law calls it that), because the property is subject to taxes. Reading the NJ law, I guess I am being a hard ass. But it is clear the law calls for EXEMPTION and not ABATEMENT. NJ appears to define the payments as PILOTs because in essence, the properties are being exempted from county and school taxes but not municipal taxes. I guess I am taking the position like a lot of NY lawyers lately with the definition of depraved indifference and murder. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: State Aid to Construct AP Schools...
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, jerseyjohn99 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, it's a good thing we have all anticipated school tax revenue coming in from the new construction, since we can't trust the State to hold up to their end of the bargain of subsidizing Asbury Park with Extraordinary Aid. Good job Council! If any of you play poker, I'd love to get in on your table! Helpful Hint: Better think of Plan B now for when the state cuts aid to municipalities next July. Sooner than I expected, but inevitable. That's what happens when your redevelopment authority is comprised of persons with absolutely no experience in the related fields. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: State Aid to Construct AP Schools...
Title: [AsburyPark] Re: State Aid to Construct AP Schools... Let's see... that same article says... Among Abbott districts, which split $6 billion, the money has completed 30 projects, with 43 others under way. That's an average of $82.1 million per project. I'm no construction specialist, but I'd bet there was a little waste in the process. Had the SCC trimmed their own waste by a measly 10%, they would have $584 million left to build all the schools that Abbott districts needed... and more. Oh wait... I'm pointing out that maybe someone else besides the City Council and Larry Fishman might be at fault. Sorry.. I forgot what list I was posting to. Please forgive me. ~joe YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "AsburyPark" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[AsburyPark] Re: State Aid to Construct AP Schools...
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Joe D'Andrea [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's an average of $82.1 million per project. I'm no construction specialist, but I'd bet there was a little waste in the process. Had the SCC trimmed their own waste by a measly 10%, they would have $584 million left to build all the schools that Abbott districts needed... and more. Oh wait... I'm pointing out that maybe someone else besides the City Council and Larry Fishman might be at fault. Sorry.. I forgot what list I was posting to. Please forgive me. I think the waste inside the SCC is well documented. What is being questioned again is the wisdom of having the new condos paying no school taxes. Fishman can't be blamed, since he should be looking to get as much as he can get. The council on the other hand does get the blame and/or approbations. It is impossible for the state to keep on funding Abbott districts at the current rate no matter how much waste is cut. The same goes for municipal subsidies. Lastly, if thr condos sales continue to succeed there is no way that AP will be eligible for such aid in the future. All of this is another reason why AP should certainly get the excess profits due to it by law and put something away for the future. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: State Aid to Construct AP Schools...
At 2:54 PM + 7/29/05, dfsavgny wrote: ...All of this is another reason why AP should certainly get the excess profits due to it by law and put something away for the future. Of course we'll get the excess profits... that's the law. In your experience how many projects like this end up with excess profits? ~joe Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: State Aid to Construct AP Schools...
Joe said: Oh wait... I'm pointing out that maybe someone else besides the City Council and Larry Fishman might be at fault. Sorry.. I forgot what list I was posting to. Please forgive me. You know Joe, I often wonder how a number of different people around her think they could have handled redevelopment in AP if they were here say in 2000. I don't think they will ever get it. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: State Aid to Construct AP Schools...
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, bluebishop82 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You know Joe, I often wonder how a number of different people around her think they could have handled redevelopment in AP if they were here say in 2000. I don't think they will ever get it. Tom, if you don't know, ask. That's the maxim. Besides, although I don't know for a fact, some here appear to have knowledge that there was interest besides Asbury Partners. In any event, knowing you, you would NOT make an excuse for bad lawyering. This deal was way above the heads of most (no knock to locals). I don't want to rehash all that we have fought over, but come on, things could have been done better despite the conditions in 2001 (not 2000). Besides, the agreement has and will continue to be amended. No community will flourish for residential purposes without good schools. Period. The wisdom of having the condos pay no school taxes is questionable at the least. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: State Aid to Construct AP Schools...
Tax abatements are a normal part of the quid pro quo in deals like this. Do you think anyone could have gotten a deal done without tax incentives? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, bluebishop82 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You know Joe, I often wonder how a number of different people around her think they could have handled redevelopment in AP if they were here say in 2000. I don't think they will ever get it. Tom, if you don't know, ask. That's the maxim. Besides, although I don't know for a fact, some here appear to have knowledge that there was interest besides Asbury Partners. In any event, knowing you, you would NOT make an excuse for bad lawyering. This deal was way above the heads of most (no knock to locals). I don't want to rehash all that we have fought over, but come on, things could have been done better despite the conditions in 2001 (not 2000). Besides, the agreement has and will continue to be amended. No community will flourish for residential purposes without good schools. Period. The wisdom of having the condos pay no school taxes is questionable at the least. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: State Aid to Construct AP Schools...
Don't know where you were in the 70's, but I was here. The City was being run by a worse bunch of crooks, called Kramer and Mattia. No wonder Weldon wrote his own pension. The town was over 50% Black then and they owned nothing. I was living in Neptune and whites would ask me, why the blacks burned everything down? Didn't have an answer, as I was a Newbie here, too and said so, but I told them, I'd get back to them. The few Blacks, I knew told me slowly, what their quality of life was and then, I realized that Blacks here, suffered indigities, no Black in New Orleans, where I'm from, would take! I believe in an eye for an eye, in that regard. I notice, that most whites here, think they can address ethnics, of any color, in a demeaning way. Those who know me, know better. While most of you were growing up in your little sterile neighborhoods, Blacks were and are still taking it on the chin, literally! I am not against rebuilding Asbury, but include those who have been here, is all I have to say. I'm retired with my neat little pension, quality of life and my world, as I make it and I believe the left out, should be IN-cluded! Many whites think that ALL Blacks have the same experience, ghetto, poor and ignorant! It's the myth that make SOME of you feel superior. Good! Keep that, but when you come up against someone, not like you, or snap back, they're called a racist and outside agitator, and lord, anti-gay person! Blacks are the most tolerant race around! Some people just don't like to see their hand called! There were some whites, I didn't like to be around, made me very uncomfortable and on edge, because I never knew what I'd be asked next! I'm to the point, where I just don't care, not privy to some of the facts, that are hidden and if known, would turn this town on its' ear! The same ones making ALL of the decisions at City Hall, will be the demise of this thing called Urban development. Ask them to open the books and let us ALL see what's going on, then I'll say, I told you so! Sharon Boone [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note: message attached Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ---BeginMessage--- Tax abatements are a normal part of the quid pro quo in deals like this. Do you think anyone could have gotten a deal done without tax incentives? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, bluebishop82 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You know Joe, I often wonder how a number of different people around her think they could have handled redevelopment in AP if they were here say in 2000. I don't think they will ever get it. Tom, if you don't know, ask. That's the maxim. Besides, although I don't know for a fact, some here appear to have knowledge that there was interest besides Asbury Partners. In any event, knowing you, you would NOT make an excuse for bad lawyering. This deal was way above the heads of most (no knock to locals). I don't want to rehash all that we have fought over, but come on, things could have been done better despite the conditions in 2001 (not 2000). Besides, the agreement has and will continue to be amended. No community will flourish for residential purposes without good schools. Period. The wisdom of having the condos pay no school taxes is questionable at the least. ---End Message---
[AsburyPark] Re: State Aid to Construct AP Schools...
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, bluebishop82 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tax abatements are a normal part of the quid pro quo in deals like this. Do you think anyone could have gotten a deal done without tax incentives? It depends what else is in the deal. If you sell the assets for less than they are worth perhaps you don't have to give the abatements. Do you think people are buying up the waterfront condos because of the abatements? I don't. I think a unit that sells for $500,000 is scheduled to pay something around $7,000+ in PILOT payments. That's with the abatements. A house selling for that amount pays perhaps a little less (until revaluation kicks in). I know the secret of the abatement at work here but I won't give it away. We got on this subject because of the schools. All I am saying is that with nothing of the PILOT going to the schools, the city better put something aside from the PILOT for when state aid dries up. Off the subject, it is not so much the abatements alone that bother me. It is everything considered together. Despite how bad people say things were in 2001, many cannot help to see the whole thing, if not as a give away, then at best, not the wisest decisions. Although I don;t really know your capabilities as a lawyer, I am going to assume you are pretty good judging by your success. Would have signed such a one-sided deal yourself? It's all spilled milk, right? We have to do the best we can now, while being held hostage by Asbury Partners. They will (have/are) not build anything. They're middlemen plain and simple. Off topic, sorry. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: State Aid to Construct AP Schools...
I don't disagree with much of what you say, in particular the need to plan should Abbott money dry up. It is becoming politically more unpopular, and with the threat of a constitutional convention looming, it could go away sooner than later. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, bluebishop82 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tax abatements are a normal part of the quid pro quo in deals like this. Do you think anyone could have gotten a deal done without tax incentives? It depends what else is in the deal. If you sell the assets for less than they are worth perhaps you don't have to give the abatements. Do you think people are buying up the waterfront condos because of the abatements? I don't. I think a unit that sells for $500,000 is scheduled to pay something around $7,000+ in PILOT payments. That's with the abatements. A house selling for that amount pays perhaps a little less (until revaluation kicks in). I know the secret of the abatement at work here but I won't give it away. We got on this subject because of the schools. All I am saying is that with nothing of the PILOT going to the schools, the city better put something aside from the PILOT for when state aid dries up. Off the subject, it is not so much the abatements alone that bother me. It is everything considered together. Despite how bad people say things were in 2001, many cannot help to see the whole thing, if not as a give away, then at best, not the wisest decisions. Although I don;t really know your capabilities as a lawyer, I am going to assume you are pretty good judging by your success. Would have signed such a one-sided deal yourself? It's all spilled milk, right? We have to do the best we can now, while being held hostage by Asbury Partners. They will (have/are) not build anything. They're middlemen plain and simple. Off topic, sorry. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: State Aid to Construct AP Schools...
So whose back do we have to rub to get what we need/want? Why a quid pro quo from the so-called honest Council, we now have? The Fix-its! Not you JK, you're new and not jaded yet! I find the Coucil very disrespectful to some citizens. Stopped coming for that reason! If the books were opened on them, I wonder what back door deals have been made? Everybody will own Asbury Park, except Asbury Park! Selling your infrastructure is a recipe for disaster! My opinion Sharon Boone Please note: message attached Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ---BeginMessage--- --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, bluebishop82 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tax abatements are a normal part of the quid pro quo in deals like this. Do you think anyone could have gotten a deal done without tax incentives? It depends what else is in the deal. If you sell the assets for less than they are worth perhaps you don't have to give the abatements. Do you think people are buying up the waterfront condos because of the abatements? I don't. I think a unit that sells for $500,000 is scheduled to pay something around $7,000+ in PILOT payments. That's with the abatements. A house selling for that amount pays perhaps a little less (until revaluation kicks in). I know the secret of the abatement at work here but I won't give it away. We got on this subject because of the schools. All I am saying is that with nothing of the PILOT going to the schools, the city better put something aside from the PILOT for when state aid dries up. Off the subject, it is not so much the abatements alone that bother me. It is everything considered together. Despite how bad people say things were in 2001, many cannot help to see the whole thing, if not as a give away, then at best, not the wisest decisions. Although I don;t really know your capabilities as a lawyer, I am going to assume you are pretty good judging by your success. Would have signed such a one-sided deal yourself? It's all spilled milk, right? We have to do the best we can now, while being held hostage by Asbury Partners. They will (have/are) not build anything. They're middlemen plain and simple. Off topic, sorry. ---End Message---
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: State Aid to Construct AP Schools...
Absolutely true! Sharon Boone [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note: message attached Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ---BeginMessage--- --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, jerseyjohn99 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, it's a good thing we have all anticipated school tax revenue coming in from the new construction, since we can't trust the State to hold up to their end of the bargain of subsidizing Asbury Park with Extraordinary Aid. Good job Council! If any of you play poker, I'd love to get in on your table! Helpful Hint: Better think of Plan B now for when the state cuts aid to municipalities next July. Sooner than I expected, but inevitable. That's what happens when your redevelopment authority is comprised of persons with absolutely no experience in the related fields. ---End Message---
[AsburyPark] Re: State Aid to Construct AP Schools...
BB, (good to see you back here, btw) Can you explain how it was possible for Long Branch to get a redevelopment deal done without giving tax abatements to the residential units? Who was Long Branch's attorney that negotiated this kneecracker deal that now has the new residents paying their fair share? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/message/6410 The link to the APP story is no longer working, but the quote is: The tax abatement does not apply to the residential units, said Ronald J. Mehlhorn Sr., the city's (Long Branch's) finance director. Those are going on the books right away. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, bluebishop82 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tax abatements are a normal part of the quid pro quo in deals like this. Do you think anyone could have gotten a deal done without tax incentives? Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: State Aid to Construct AP Schools...
JJ: See below. I thought LB was tax abated. Did this change? City makes tax break for Pier Village official Tax abatements were offered as enticement to attract developers BY CHRISTINE VARNO Staff Writer LONG BRANCH An agreement for a tax abatement, made four years ago, between the City Council and the Pier Village developers was unanimously approved as an ordinance on April 13. The ordinance authorizes the financial agreement for a tax exemption and a payment in lieu of taxes with the developers of the Pier Village Redevelopment Project. It is an estimated $100 million project of improvements on property roughly worth $20 million, according to Howard H. Woolley Jr., city business administrator. Woolley said the abatement is on the improvements of the property only, and the developers will be and are paying on the value of the land as it exists now. He said there is no way of telling at this time the exact amount of the total cost of the abatement. Tax abatements are given so developers will come into the city and build, City Attorney Jim Aaron said. You give tax abatements to look into the future to entice people to build million-dollar projects on land that was vacant in an area that has been disgusting for years and years. The project includes 420 residential units to be constructed on approximately 104,000 square feet of retail space between Morris Avenue and Laird Street. The agreement for the abatement was made in 2000 with Applied Development Company of Hoboken, the first developers to show any interest in developing land in the city, according to Mayor Adam Schneider. We said the first entity that came to the table would get the best deal, Schneider said. We offered the abatement to entice developers to come into the city. The commitment was made four years ago. Nobody knew four years ago that [the city's] redevelopment would be as successful as it is today. According to the ordinance, the tax exemption will be structured as follows: In the first full tax year after completion of the Project, no pay ment in lieu of taxes shall be required; in the second tax year, 20 percent of taxes otherwise due shall be paid by the Redeveloper; in the third tax year, 40 percent of taxes otherwise due shall be paid by the Redeveloper; in the fourth tax year, 60 percent of taxes otherwise due shall be paid by the Redeveloper; in the fifth tax year, 80 percent of taxes otherwise due shall be paid by the redeveloper. After the fifth tax year, 100 percent of taxes otherwise due shall be paid by the Redeveloper. In no event shall the payment by the Re developer be less than the amount of taxes currently generated by the Project properties. According to Woolley, in the first year, the city will be abating about $1.8 million and collecting about $400,000; in the second year the city will be abating about $1.4 million and collecting about $800,000; in the third year the city will be abating about $800,000 and collecting about $1.4 million; in the fourth year the city will be abating about $400,000 and collecting about $1.8 million; and in the fifth year the city will abate no money and collect about $2 million in full taxes. Woolley said the city also agreed on a tax abatement with the devel opers of the Hilton Hotel, now the Ocean Place Resort and Spa on Ocean Boulevard. There was nothing down here [on the oceanfront], Woolley said. All we had was a burned out water-slide and a lot of vacant land. I looked all over the state for developers, and no one was interested. In order to attract developers to invest millions of dollars in the city, the council had to offer an abatement, he said. We said we would give the best deal to the first major developer to show interest in developing oceanfront property. Applied was the first developer we signed. Down the road, we are going to have money coming in from this project, Woolley said. As a taxpayer and a homeowner, I object to this, Denise Hoagland of Marine Terrace said at the council meeting. Hoagland's home is in an area the city has designated for redevelopment, and she faces the possibility of the city using its powers of eminent domain to take her property. If you are taking my home [slated for eminent domain for oceanfront development] and I am paying taxes, you do not have the right to take my home. Hoagland was not the only local resident who objected to the abate ment. MTOTSA (Marine and Ocean Terraces and Seaview Avenue), an alliance formed to fight eminent domain in the city, members Hoagland, Bill Nordahl, Tom Bellucci and Lori Vendetti all spoke up, telling the council that they do not agree with offering a tax relief to developers who are developing on oceanfront land. The tax abatement will give a greater benefit in the next year, and the next year, and the next year, Aaron said. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to:
[AsburyPark] Re: State Aid to Construct AP Schools...
If I recall correctly, when Hovnanian signed their deal, only the commercial portions were abated, the residential is paying full boat. Maybe that was what was meant by giving the best deal to the first major developer? Unfortunately, the link to the story is dead, and I can't find it on google. (what the heck...I'll throw the conspiracy card out there, just to get Joe's blood boiling! lol) maybe RevKev can shed some light on this? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, bluebishop82 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: JJ: See below. I thought LB was tax abated. Did this change? City makes tax break for Pier Village official Tax abatements were offered as enticement to attract developers Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
