Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India
Mayur, Thanks for the best wishes. am very happy if he or for that matter any one in the assamnet has a realistic blueprint for sovereign Assam. I have all the best wishes for them to translate their dreams into reality in future. However till the time that blueprint is not shared on a common platform for any meaningful debate, no one can prevent me from taking any such claim from any one including Mahanta - da with a handful (not with a pinch) of salt. Salt is bad for pressure-avoid it. Wish you happy banking with Indian Rupees. But please think about how to change over fast and seamlesslyto Oxomiya Toka+Bodo Toak+ Indian Rupee +Bangla Taka+ Kyat+Rouble+ RMB + the good old Greenback. mm From:Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED]To:mayur bora [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Roy, Santanu" [EMAIL PROTECTED],Dilip/Dil Deka [EMAIL PROTECTED], Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED]CC:assam@assamnet.orgSubject:Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland IndiaDate:Mon, 14 Nov 2005 12:37:40 -0600Hi Mayur: Secondly, I did not say anything about leaving assamnet.I am glad to hear that :-). At a personal level, I have high regard for Mahanta-da which is clearly exemplified in some of my earlier mails on assamnet. I appreciate his formidable analytical skills to make many people believe that the colour of the blackboard is white.*** Thanks much for the kind words. But obviously you have gone wayoverwith my abilities like making black appear white. In the pastpeople have called me assorted names, assigned ulterior motives,tried to hurt me by citing my advancing age and unflattering physicalattributes--you name it. But attributing supernatural abilities is afirst. There has to be a far more credible and rational explanationfor it, don't you think? Allow me to give you a hint : How aboutmaking just plain old common sense ? Is it possible:-)?cmAt 9:53 AM -0800 11/14/05, mayur bora wrote: Dear Santanu-da Thank you for your kind words about my introduction. I was not exactly offended by that comparison by Dilip-da. I was no doubt amused and found the whole thing totally uncalled for. But as indicated now by Mahanta-da about some past episodes of impersonation on assamnet, I feel it might have been an outcome of that. Secondly, I did not say anything about leaving assamnet. I want to leave the debate on sovereignty purely on a temporary basis till the blueprint is offered by someone for a threadbare discussion. With all the humility at my command, I wish to state that I write only when some issue touches my heart and inspires me to pour out my feelings. I will keep on doing that. At a personal level, I have high regard for Mahanta-da which is clearly exemplified in some of my earlier mails on assamnet. I appreciate his formidable analytical skills to make many people believe that the colour of the blackboard is white. It is always a pleasure to have a debate in general on assamnet and with Mahanta-da in particular. I don't intend to deprive me of that pleasure so easily. Take care. Mayur --- "Roy, Santanu" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Mayur: Please don't be offended by Dilip-da comparing you to a comet or a shadow. He means well. Fact is that you write very well and many on this net, who are not active right now, find your arguments extremely relevant and laud your ability to articulate them with intellectual honesty. Perhaps, they want to see you write more often (which is understandably time consuming). In any case, please keep writing - as often as you can - and not necessarily about sovereignty. Take care - Santanu-da. To other netters: Mayur is very real, a former student of economics from my own college in Delhi (much younger than me, of course) now managing a major public sector bank in Chandigarh. Its a pleasure to have him on the net. -Original Message- From: mayur bora [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Mon 11/14/2005 10:28 PM To: Dilip/Dil Deka; Roy, Santanu; Chan Mahanta; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: assam@assamnet.org Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India My knowledge about science in general and astronomy in particular is extremely poor. Even then I could not resist the temptation of asking the gentleman about the logic of comparing me to a comet as I joined assamnet only during August 2005. Does any comet keep on coming and vanishing so frequently ? Secondly I don't have a misplaced sense of importance about myself to think that I am trying to light the bright sky ofassamnet. What I have been trying for the last few monthsis to share my concern on many issues pertaining to Assam and to look for at least a couple of solutions in a collective and consensual way. Mr Deka might have missed many of our (Mahanta -da's and mine) earlier mails on similar kind of issues. But what have we achieved so far ? Now I have decided not to give counter arguments due to the following reasons. 1) We are becoming more and more theoretical 2) Paucity of time at my side to
Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India
Hi Mayur: Sorry to see your explanations. I want to see my fellow men in general, and Oxomiyas in particular, in a forum such as this, to be thoughtful and strong, able to stand behind their arguments and even fight back if need be. That gives me pleasure. Gives me hope. But to see you slinking back so unceremoniously with alibis like: 1) We are becoming more and more theoretical 2) Paucity of time at my side to indulge in something with no workable solution at sight 3) Gradual turning of the whole issue into some kind of one-upmanship 4) Last but not the least, Mahanta-da's increasing inclination to answer any question with a question is a big disappointment to say the least. cm At 5:28 AM -0800 11/14/05, mayur bora wrote: My knowledge about science in general and astronomy in particular is extremely poor. Even then I could not resist the temptation of asking the gentleman about the logic of comparing me to a comet as I joined assamnet only during August 2005. Does any comet keep on coming and vanishing so frequently ? Secondly I don't have a misplaced sense of importance about myself to think that I am trying to light the bright sky of assamnet. What I have been trying for the last few months is to share my concern on many issues pertaining to Assam and to look for at least a couple of solutions in a collective and consensual way. Mr Deka might have missed many of our (Mahanta -da's and mine) earlier mails on similar kind of issues. But what have we achieved so far ? Now I have decided not to give counter arguments due to the following reasons. 1) We are becoming more and more theoretical 2) Paucity of time at my side to indulge in something with no workable solution at sight 3) Gradual turning of the whole issue into some kind of one-upmanship 4) Last but not the least, Mahanta-da's increasing inclination to answer any question with a question I am very happy if he or for that matter any one in the assamnet has a realistic blueprint for sovereign Assam. I have all the best wishes for them to translate their dreams into reality in future. However till the time that blueprint is not shared on a common platform for any meaningful debate, no one can prevent me from taking any such claim from any one including Mahanta - da with a handful (not with a pinch) of salt. Mayur --- Dilip/Dil Deka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Santanu, First of all I apologize to everyone for copying a personal mail to Assamnet. It was meant to be only for Chandan Mahanta since he was trying so hard to get a response from Mayur Bora and it looked to me Mayur Bora was like a comet. He lit up the skies of Assamnet for a short while and vanished. We have had so many shadows come and go in Assamnet, I felt here is another. I of course hope that Mayur Bora is a real person and he will continue to participate in Assamnet. We know for sure that Bidyut Kakati is an assumed name just like Dr. Tilok Hatimuriya and Dipankar Pungta were (R.I.P). Prasenjit, This has nothing to do with unity or disunity. Mine was a simple observation and a simple query to my friend Chandan Mahanta. It is unfortunate that Assamnet's name remained when I deleted the other names from the original mail. Despite occasional flare up that you see in this net, in general the discussions are civil compared to many other nets I have seen. So stay calm and participate in the discussions as your time allows. Pseudonames though distracting will not alter the course. Dilip Deka === Roy, Santanu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dilip-da: Why do you think Mayur Bora is a shadow? Santanu. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Dilip/Dil Deka Sent: Mon 11/14/2005 4:05 AM To: Chan Mahanta Cc: assam@assamnet.org Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India Nulu, Mayur Bora, I think, is a shadow just like Bidyut Kakati. Another impersonation. Do you have any inkling who it could be? Dilip Chan Mahanta wrote: Hi Mayur: I was looking forward to getting some specific answers to all the questions I asked you about your charges of my various 'specious' arguments, about the excessive nature of my analyses, about how Indian governance is helping reduce the rifts between the many indigenous people-your primary concern about Assam, how you justify that as a reason AGAINST Assam's sovereignty aspirations, so on and so forth. Since you failed to answer any of them other than repeat your opinions, will it be fair for us to conclude that those were merely your fancy words and that there was no substance to them, that you don't know why you make those charges and comments and deliver those opinions ? And if you do not agree, will you explain why? Yes, I will be pleased to explain the disarray in Assam's
Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India
Very well put, Santanu. Mayur, you do articulate well. Chandan da's posts may seem a maze at times, but having had a lot of differences of opinion with him over the years, I can tell you, his posts are not only enjoyable and educational, but also makes one look at things from a different angle. I am glad that there are people like him and you on the net, who are at least willing to bring up topics that many are not willing/unable to even discuss honestly in the open. As Santanu has said, Dilip da does mean well. I hope you and others who want to leave, reconsider. Ram da. On 11/14/05, Roy, Santanu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Mayur:Please don't be offended by Dilip-da comparing you to a comet or a shadow. He means well. Fact is that you write very well and many on this net, who are not active right now, find your arguments extremely relevant and laud your ability to articulate them with intellectual honesty. Perhaps, they want to see you write more often (which is understandably time consuming). In any case, please keep writing - as often as you can - and not necessarily about sovereignty. Take care -Santanu-da.To other netters: Mayur is very real, a former student of economics from my own college in Delhi (much younger than me, of course) now managing a major public sector bank in Chandigarh. Its a pleasure to have him on the net. -Original Message-From: mayur bora [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Mon 11/14/2005 10:28 PMTo: Dilip/Dil Deka; Roy, Santanu; Chan Mahanta; [EMAIL PROTECTED]Cc: assam@assamnet.orgSubject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland IndiaMy knowledge about science in general and astronomy in particular is extremely poor. Even then I could notresist the temptation of asking the gentleman aboutthe logic of comparing me to a comet as I joinedassamnet only during August 2005. Does any comet keep on coming and vanishing so frequently ? Secondly Idon't have a misplaced sense of importance aboutmyself to think that I am trying to light thebrightsky ofassamnet. What I have been trying for the last few monthsis to share my concern on many issuespertaining to Assam and to look for at least a coupleof solutions in a collective and consensual way. MrDeka might have missed many of our (Mahanta -da's and mine) earlier mails on similar kind of issues. Butwhat have we achieved so far ? Now I have decidednotto give counter arguments due to the followingreasons.1) We are becoming more and more theoretical 2) Paucity of time at my side to indulge in somethingwith no workable solution at sight3) Gradual turning of the whole issueinto some kindof one-upmanship4) Last but not the least, Mahanta-da's increasing inclination to answer any question with a questionI am very happy if he or for that matter any one inthe assamnet has a realistic blueprint for sovereignAssam. I have all the best wishes for them to translate their dreams into reality in future. Howevertill the time that blueprint is not shared on a commonplatform for any meaningful debate, no one can preventme from taking any such claim from any one including Mahanta - da with a handful (not with a pinch) ofsalt.Mayur--- Dilip/Dil Deka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Santanu, First of all I apologize to everyone for copying a personal mail to Assamnet. It was meant to be only for Chandan Mahanta since he was trying so hard to get a response from Mayur Bora and it looked to me Mayur Bora was like a comet. He lit up the skies of Assamnet for a short while and vanished. We have had so many shadows come and go in Assamnet, I felt here is another. I of course hope that Mayur Bora is a real person and he will continue to participate in Assamnet. We know for sure that Bidyut Kakati is an assumed name just like Dr. Tilok Hatimuriya and Dipankar Pungta were (R.I.P). Prasenjit, This has nothing to do with unity or disunity. Mine was a simple observation and a simple query to my friend Chandan Mahanta. It is unfortunate that Assamnet's nameremained when I deleted the other names from the original mail. Despite occasional flare up that you see in this net, in general the discussions are civil compared to many other nets I have seen. So stay calm and participate in the discussions as your time allows. Pseudonames though distracting will not alter the course. Dilip Deka=== Roy, Santanu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dilip-da: Why do you think Mayur Bora is a shadow? Santanu. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Dilip/Dil Deka Sent: Mon 11/14/2005 4:05 AM To: Chan Mahanta Cc: assam@assamnet.org Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India Nulu, Mayur Bora, I think, is a shadow just like Bidyut Kakati. Another impersonation. Do you have any inkling who it could be? Dilip Chan Mahanta wrote: Hi Mayur: I was looking forward to getting some specific answers to all the questions I asked you about your charges of my
Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India
Dear Santanu-da Thank you for your kind words about my introduction. I was not exactly offended by that comparison by Dilip-da. I was no doubt amused and found the whole thing totally uncalled for. But as indicated now by Mahanta-da about some past episodes of impersonation on assamnet, I feel it might have been an outcome of that. Secondly, I did not say anything about leaving assamnet. I want to leave the debate on sovereignty purely on a temporary basis till the blueprint is offered by someone for a threadbare discussion. With all the humility at my command, I wish to state that I write only when some issue touches my heart and inspires me to pour out my feelings. I will keep on doing that. At a personal level, I have high regard for Mahanta-da which is clearly exemplified in some of my earlier mails on assamnet. I appreciate his formidable analytical skills to make many people believe that the colour of the blackboard is white. It is always a pleasure to have a debate in general on assamnet and with Mahanta-da in particular. I don't intend to deprive me of that pleasure so easily. Take care. Mayur --- Roy, Santanu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Mayur: Please don't be offended by Dilip-da comparing you to a comet or a shadow. He means well. Fact is that you write very well and many on this net, who are not active right now, find your arguments extremely relevant and laud your ability to articulate them with intellectual honesty. Perhaps, they want to see you write more often (which is understandably time consuming). In any case, please keep writing - as often as you can - and not necessarily about sovereignty. Take care - Santanu-da. To other netters: Mayur is very real, a former student of economics from my own college in Delhi (much younger than me, of course) now managing a major public sector bank in Chandigarh. Its a pleasure to have him on the net. -Original Message- From: mayur bora [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Mon 11/14/2005 10:28 PM To: Dilip/Dil Deka; Roy, Santanu; Chan Mahanta; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: assam@assamnet.org Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India My knowledge about science in general and astronomy in particular is extremely poor. Even then I could not resist the temptation of asking the gentleman about the logic of comparing me to a comet as I joined assamnet only during August 2005. Does any comet keep on coming and vanishing so frequently ? Secondly I don't have a misplaced sense of importance about myself to think that I am trying to light the bright sky of assamnet. What I have been trying for the last few months is to share my concern on many issues pertaining to Assam and to look for at least a couple of solutions in a collective and consensual way. Mr Deka might have missed many of our (Mahanta -da's and mine) earlier mails on similar kind of issues. But what have we achieved so far ? Now I have decided not to give counter arguments due to the following reasons. 1) We are becoming more and more theoretical 2) Paucity of time at my side to indulge in something with no workable solution at sight 3) Gradual turning of the whole issue into some kind of one-upmanship 4) Last but not the least, Mahanta-da's increasing inclination to answer any question with a question I am very happy if he or for that matter any one in the assamnet has a realistic blueprint for sovereign Assam. I have all the best wishes for them to translate their dreams into reality in future. However till the time that blueprint is not shared on a common platform for any meaningful debate, no one can prevent me from taking any such claim from any one including Mahanta - da with a handful (not with a pinch) of salt. Mayur --- Dilip/Dil Deka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Santanu, First of all I apologize to everyone for copying a personal mail to Assamnet. It was meant to be only for Chandan Mahanta since he was trying so hard to get a response from Mayur Bora and it looked to me Mayur Bora was like a comet. He lit up the skies of Assamnet for a short while and vanished. We have had so many shadows come and go in Assamnet, I felt here is another. I of course hope that Mayur Bora is a real person and he will continue to participate in Assamnet. We know for sure that Bidyut Kakati is an assumed name just like Dr. Tilok Hatimuriya and Dipankar Pungta were (R.I.P). Prasenjit, This has nothing to do with unity or disunity. Mine was a simple observation and a simple query to my friend Chandan Mahanta. It is unfortunate that Assamnet's name remained when I deleted the other names from the original mail. Despite occasional flare up that you see in this net, in general the discussions are civil compared to many other nets I have seen. So stay calm and participate in the discussions as your time allows
Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India
Hi Mayur: Secondly, I did not say anything about leaving assamnet. I am glad to hear that :-). At a personal level, I have high regard for Mahanta-da which is clearly exemplified in some of my earlier mails on assamnet. I appreciate his formidable analytical skills to make many people believe that the colour of the blackboard is white. *** Thanks much for the kind words. But obviously you have gone way over with my abilities like making black appear white. In the past people have called me assorted names, assigned ulterior motives, tried to hurt me by citing my advancing age and unflattering physical attributes--you name it. But attributing supernatural abilities is a first. There has to be a far more credible and rational explanation for it, don't you think? Allow me to give you a hint : How about making just plain old common sense ? Is it possible :-)? cm At 9:53 AM -0800 11/14/05, mayur bora wrote: Dear Santanu-da Thank you for your kind words about my introduction. I was not exactly offended by that comparison by Dilip-da. I was no doubt amused and found the whole thing totally uncalled for. But as indicated now by Mahanta-da about some past episodes of impersonation on assamnet, I feel it might have been an outcome of that. Secondly, I did not say anything about leaving assamnet. I want to leave the debate on sovereignty purely on a temporary basis till the blueprint is offered by someone for a threadbare discussion. With all the humility at my command, I wish to state that I write only when some issue touches my heart and inspires me to pour out my feelings. I will keep on doing that. At a personal level, I have high regard for Mahanta-da which is clearly exemplified in some of my earlier mails on assamnet. I appreciate his formidable analytical skills to make many people believe that the colour of the blackboard is white. It is always a pleasure to have a debate in general on assamnet and with Mahanta-da in particular. I don't intend to deprive me of that pleasure so easily. Take care. Mayur --- Roy, Santanu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Mayur: Please don't be offended by Dilip-da comparing you to a comet or a shadow. He means well. Fact is that you write very well and many on this net, who are not active right now, find your arguments extremely relevant and laud your ability to articulate them with intellectual honesty. Perhaps, they want to see you write more often (which is understandably time consuming). In any case, please keep writing - as often as you can - and not necessarily about sovereignty. Take care - Santanu-da. To other netters: Mayur is very real, a former student of economics from my own college in Delhi (much younger than me, of course) now managing a major public sector bank in Chandigarh. Its a pleasure to have him on the net. -Original Message- From: mayur bora [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Mon 11/14/2005 10:28 PM To: Dilip/Dil Deka; Roy, Santanu; Chan Mahanta; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: assam@assamnet.org Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India My knowledge about science in general and astronomy in particular is extremely poor. Even then I could not resist the temptation of asking the gentleman about the logic of comparing me to a comet as I joined assamnet only during August 2005. Does any comet keep on coming and vanishing so frequently ? Secondly I don't have a misplaced sense of importance about myself to think that I am trying to light the bright sky of assamnet. What I have been trying for the last few months is to share my concern on many issues pertaining to Assam and to look for at least a couple of solutions in a collective and consensual way. Mr Deka might have missed many of our (Mahanta -da's and mine) earlier mails on similar kind of issues. But what have we achieved so far ? Now I have decided not to give counter arguments due to the following reasons. 1) We are becoming more and more theoretical 2) Paucity of time at my side to indulge in something with no workable solution at sight 3) Gradual turning of the whole issue into some kind of one-upmanship 4) Last but not the least, Mahanta-da's increasing inclination to answer any question with a question I am very happy if he or for that matter any one in the assamnet has a realistic blueprint for sovereign Assam. I have all the best wishes for them to translate their dreams into reality in future. However till the time that blueprint is not shared on a common platform for any meaningful debate, no one can prevent me from taking any such claim from any one including Mahanta - da with a handful (not with a pinch) of salt. Mayur --- Dilip/Dil Deka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Santanu, First of all I apologize to everyone for copying a personal mail to Assamnet. It was meant to be only
Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India
That, Malabika, may be an instance of C-da trying to "make many people believe that the colour of the blackboard is white" :-) Santanu. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Malabika BrahmaSent: Monday, November 14, 2005 2:25 PMTo: Chan MahantaCc: assam@assamnet.orgSubject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India unflattering physical attributes--you name it. That's a news ! I always thought the general consensus was quite the opposite :) Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Mayur:Secondly, I did not say anything about leaving assamnet.I am glad to hear that :-). At a personal level, I have high regard for Mahanta-dawhich is clearly exemplified in some of my earliermails on assamnet. I appreciate his formidableanalytical skills to make many people believe that the colour of the blackboard is white.*** Thanks much for the kind words. But obviously you have gone way over with my abilities like making black appear white. In the past people have called me assorted names, assigned ulterior motives, tried to hurt me by citing my advancing age and unflattering physical attributes--you name it. But attributing supernatural abilities is a first. There has to be a far more credible and rational explanation for it, don't you think? Allow me to give you a hint : How about making just plain old common sense ? Is it possible :-)?cmAt 9:53 AM -0800 11/14/05, mayur bora wrote:Dear Santanu-daThank you for your kind words about my introduction. Iwas not exactly offended by that comparison byDilip-da. I was no doubt amused and found the wholething totally uncalled for. But as indicated now byMahanta-da about some past episodes of impersonationon assamnet, I feel it might have been an outcome ofthat.Secondly, I did not say anything about leavingassamnet. I want to leave the debate on sovereigntypurely on a temporary basis till the blueprint isoffered by someone for a threadbare discussion. Withall the humility at my command, I wish to state that Iwrite only when some issue touches my heart andinspires me to pour out my feelings. I will keep ondoing that.At a personal level, I have high regard for Mahanta-dawhich is clearly exemplified in some of my earliermails on assamnet. I appreciate his formidableanalytical skills to make many people believe that thecolour of the blackboard is white. It is always apleasure to have a debate in general on assamnet andwith Mahanta-da in particular. I don't intend todeprive me of that pleasure so easily.Take care.Mayur--- "Roy, Santanu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Dear Mayur: Please don't be offended by Dilip-da comparing you to a comet or a shadow. He means well. Fact is that you write very well and many on this net, who are not active right now, find your arguments extremely relevant and laud your ability to articulate them with intellectual honesty. Perhaps, they want to see you write more often (which is understandably time consuming). In any case, please keep writing - as often as you can - and not necessarily about sovereignty. Take care - Santanu-da. To other netters: Mayur is very real, a former student of economics from my own college in Delhi (much younger than me, of course) now managing a major public sector bank in Chandigarh. Its a pleasure to have him on the net. -Original Message- From: mayur bora [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Mon 11/14/2005 10:28 PM To: Dilip/Dil Deka; Roy, Santanu; Chan Mahanta; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: assam@assamnet.org Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India My knowledge about science in general and astronomy in particular is extremely poor. Even then I could not resist the temptation of asking the gentleman about the logic of comparing me to a comet as I joined assamnet only during August 2005. Does any comet keep on coming and vanishing so frequently ? Secondly I don't have a misplaced sense of importance about myself to think that I am trying to light the bright sky of assamnet. What I have been trying for the last few months is to share my concern on many issues pertaining to Assam and to look for at least a couple of solutions in a collective and consensual way. Mr Deka might have missed many of our (Mahanta -da's and mine) earlier mails on similar kind of issues. But what have we achieved so far ? Now I have decided not to give counter arguments due to the following reasons. 1) We are becoming more and more theoretical 2) Paucity of time at my side to indulge in something with no workable solution at sight 3) Gradual
Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India
Title: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India At 8:25 PM + 11/14/05, Malabika Brahma wrote: unflattering physical attributes--you name it. That's a news ! I always thought the general consensus was quite the opposite :) OUCH! Do you have to kick me while I am down :-)? Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Mayur: Secondly, I did not say anything about leaving assamnet. I am glad to hear that :-). At a personal level, I have high regard for Mahanta-da which is clearly exemplified in some of my earlier mails on assamnet. I appreciate his formidable analytical skills to make many people believe that the colour of the blackboard is white. *** Thanks much for the kind words. But obviously you have gone way over with my abilities like making black appear white. In the past people have called me assorted names, assigned ulterior motives, tried to hurt me by citing my advancing age and unflattering physical attributes--you name it. But attributing supernatural abilities is a first. There has to be a far more credible and rational explanation for it, don't you think? Allo! w me to give you a hint : How about making just plain old common sense ? Is it possible :-)? cm At 9:53 AM -0800 11/14/05, mayur bora wrote: Dear Santanu-da Thank you for your kind words about my introduction. I was not exactly offended by that comparison by Dilip-da. I was no doubt amused and found the whole thing totally uncalled for. But as indicated now by Mahanta-da about some past episodes of impersonation on assamnet, I feel it might have been an outcome of that. Secondly, I did not say anything about leaving assamnet. I want to leave the debate on sovereignty purely on a temporary basis till the blueprint is offered by someone for a threadbare discussion. With all the humility at my command, I wish to state that I write only when some issue touches my heart and inspires me to pour out my feelings. I will keep on g! t;doing that. At a personal level, I have high regard for Mahanta-da which is clearly exemplified in some of my earlier mails on assamnet. I appreciate his formidable analytical skills to make many people believe that the colour of the blackboard is white. It is always a pleasure to have a debate in general on assamnet and with Mahanta-da in particular. I don't intend to deprive me of that pleasure so easily. Take care. Mayur --- Roy, Santanu wrote: Dear Mayur: Please don't be offended by Dilip-da comparing you to a comet or a shadow. He means well. Fact is that you write very well and many on this net, who are not active right now, find your arguments extremely relevant and laud your ability to articulate them with intellectual honesty. Perhaps, they want to see you write more often (which is understandably time consuming). In any case, please keep writing - as often as you can - and not necessarily about sovereignty. Take care - Santanu-da. To other netters: Mayur is very real, a former student of economics from my own college in Delhi (much younger than me, of course) now managing a major public sector bank in Chandigarh. Its a pleasure to have him on the net. -Original Message- From: mayur bora [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Mon 11/14/2005 10:28 PM To: Dilip/Dil Deka; Roy, Santanu; Chan Mahanta; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: assam@assamnet.org Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India My knowledge about science in general and astronomy in particular is extremely poor. Even then I could not resist the temptation of asking the gentleman about the logic of comparing me to a comet as I joined assamnet only during August 2005. Does any comet keep on coming and vanishing so frequently ? Secondly I don't have a misplaced sense of importance about myself to think that I am trying to light the bright sky of assamnet. What I have been trying for the last few months is to share my concern on many issues pertaining to Assam and to look for at least a couple of solutions in a collective and consensual way. Mr Deka might have missed many of our (Mahanta -da's and mine) earlier mails on similar kind of issues. But g! t; what have we achieved so far ? Now I have decided not to give counter arguments due to the following reasons. 1) We are becoming more and more theoretical 2) Paucity of time at my side to indulge in something with no workable solution at sight 3) Gradual turning of the whole issue into some kind of one-upmanship 4) Last but not the least, Mahanta-da's increasing inclination to answer any question with a question I am very happy if he or for that matter any one in the assamnet has a realistic blueprint for sovereign Assam. I have all the best wishes for them to translate their dreams into reality in future. However till the time that blueprint is not shared on a common platform for any meaningful debate, no one can prevent me from taking any such claim
Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India-pseudonym
I have never met any other member of Assamnet to this date - I could be a pseudonym too - but this evening I am meeting Satyen-da Dasand Namita-ji at their residence in DC area where they have shifted from Michigan Ann Arbor. They invited me over phone in the morning!Umesh Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:At 8:25 PM + 11/14/05, Malabika Brahma wrote: unflattering physical attributes--you name it. That's a news ! I always thought the general consensus was quite the opposite :) OUCH! Do you have to kick me while I am down :-)?Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Mayur:Secondly, I did not say anything about leaving assamnet.I am glad to hear that :-). At a personal level, I have high regard for Mahanta-dawhich is clearly exemplified in some of my earliermails on assamnet. I appreciate his formidableanalytical skills to make many people believe that the colour of theblackboard is white.*** Thanks much for the kind words. But obviously you have gone wayover with my abilities like making black appear white. In the pastpeople have called me assorted names, assigned ulterior motives,tried to hurt me by citing my advancing age and unflattering physicalattributes--you name it. But attributing supernatural abilities is afirst. There has to be a far more credible and rational explanationfor it, don't you think? Allo! w me to give you a hint : How aboutmaking just plain old common sense ? Is it possible :-)?cmAt 9:53 AM -0800 11/14/05, mayur bora wrote:Dear Santanu-daThank you for your kind words about my introduction. Iwas not exactly offended by that comparison byDilip-da. I was no doubt amused and found the wholething totally uncalled for. But as indicated now byMahanta-da about some past episodes of impersonationon assamnet, I feel it might have been an outcome ofthat.Secondly, I did not say anything about leavingassamnet. I want to leave the debate on sovereigntypurely on a temporary basis till the blueprint isoffered by someone for a threadbare discussion. Withall the humility at my command, I wish to state that Iwrite only when some issue touches my heart andinspires me to pour out my feelings. I will keep ong! t;doing that.At a personal level, I have high regard for Mahanta-dawhich is clearly exemplified in some of my earliermails on assamnet. I appreciate his formidableanalytical skills to make many people believe that thecolour of the blackboard is white. It is always apleasure to have a debate in general on assamnet andwith Mahanta-da in particular. I don't intend todeprive me of that pleasure so easily.Take care.Mayur--- "Roy, Santanu" wrote: Dear Mayur: Please don't be offended by Dilip-da comparing you to a comet or a shadow. He means well. Fact is that you write very well and many on this net, who are not active right now, find your arguments extremely relevant and laud your ability to articulate them with intellectual honesty. Perhaps, they want to see you write more often (which is understandably time consuming). In any case, please keep writing - as often as you can - and not necessarily about sovereignty. Take care - Santanu-da. To other netters: Mayur is very real, a former student of economics from my own college in Delhi (much younger than me, of course) now managing a major public sector bank in Chandigarh. Its a pleasure to have him on the net. -Original Message- From: mayur bora [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Mon 11/14/2005 10:28 PM To: Dilip/Dil Deka; Roy, Santanu; Chan Mahanta; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: assam@assamnet.org Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India My knowledge about science in general and astronomy in particular is extremely poor. Even then I could not resist the temptation of asking the gentleman about the logic of comparing me to a comet as I joined assamnet only during August 2005. Does any comet keep on coming and vanishing so frequently ? Secondly I don't have a misplaced sense of importance about myself to think that I am trying to light the bright sky of assamnet. What I have been trying for the last few months is to share my concern on many issues pertaining to Assam and to look for at least a couple of solutions in a collective and consensual way. Mr Deka might have missed many of our (Mahanta -da's and mine) earlier mails on similar kind of issues. Butg! t; what have we achieved so far ? Now I have decided not to give counter arguments due to the following reasons. 1) We are becoming more and more theoretical 2) Paucity of time at my side to indulge in something with no workable solution at sight 3) Gradual turning of the whole issue into some kind of one-upmanship 4) Last but not the least, Mahanta-da's increasing inclination to answer any question with a question I am very happy if he or for that matter any one in the assamnet has a realistic blueprint for sovereign Assam. I have all the best wishes for them to translate their dreams into reality in futur
Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India-pseudonym
Title: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India-pseu At 9:34 PM + 11/14/05, umesh sharma wrote: I have never met any other member of Assamnet to this date - I could be a pseudonym too - but this evening I am meeting Satyen-da Dasand Namita-ji at their residence in DC area where they have shifted from Michigan Ann Arbor. They invited me over phone in the morning! *** Uh-oh! Umesh, you better get ready for trouble :-)! Umesh Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 8:25 PM + 11/14/05, Malabika Brahma wrote: unflattering physical attributes--you name it. That's a news ! I always thought the general consensus was qu! ite the opposite :) OUCH! Do you have to kick me while I am down :-)? Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Mayur: Secondly, I did not say anything about leaving assamnet. I am glad to hear that :-). At a personal level, I have high regard for Mahanta-da which is clearly exemplified in some of my earlier mails on assamnet. I appreciate his formidable analytical skills to make many people believe that the colour of the blackboard is white. *** Thanks much for the kind words. But obviously you have gone way over with my abilities like making black appear white. In the past people have called me assorte! d names, assigned ulterior motives, tried to hurt me by citing my advancing age and unflattering physical attributes--you name it. But attributing supernatural abilities is a first. There has to be a far more credible and rational explanation for it, don't you think? Allo! w me to give you a hint : How about making just plain old common sense ? Is it possible :-)? cm At 9:53 AM -0800 11/14/05, mayur bora wrote: Dear Santanu-da Thank you for your kind words about my introduction. I was not exactly offended by that comparison by Dilip-da. I was no doubt amused and found the whole thing totally uncalled for. But as indicated now by Mahanta-da about some past episodes of impersonation on assamnet, I feel it might have been an outcome of that. Secondly, I did not say anything about leaving assamnet. I want to leave the debate on sovereignty purely ! on a temporary basis till the blueprint is offered by someone for a threadbare discussion. With all the humility at my command, I wish to state that I write only when some issue touches my heart and inspires me to pour out my feelings. I will keep on g! t;doing that. At a personal level, I have high regard for Mahanta-da which is clearly exemplified in some of my earlier mails on assamnet. I appreciate his formidable analytical skills to make many people believe that the colour of the blackboard is white. It is always a pleasure to have a debate in general on assamnet and with Mahanta-da in particular. I don't intend to deprive me of that pleasure so easily. Take care. Mayur --- Roy, Santanu wrote: Dear Mayur: Please don't be offended by Dilip-da comparing you to a comet or a sha! dow. He means well. Fact is that you write very well and many on this net, who are not active right now, find your arguments extremely relevant and laud your ability to articulate them with intellectual honesty. Perhaps, they want to see you write more often (which is understandably time consuming). In any case, please keep writing - as often as you can - and not necessarily about sovereignty. Take care - Santanu-da. To other netters: Mayur is very real, a former student of economics from my own college in Delhi (much younger than me, of course) now managing a major public sector bank in Chandigarh. Its a pleasure to have him on the net. -Original Message- From: mayur bora [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ! Sent: Mon 11/14/2005 10:28 PM To: Dilip/Dil Deka; Roy, Santanu; Chan Mahanta; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: assam@assamnet.org Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India My knowledge about science in general and astronomy in particular is extremely poor. Even then I could not resist the temptation of asking the gentleman about the logic of comparing me to a comet as I joined assamnet only during August 2005. Does any comet keep on coming and vanishing so frequently ? Secondly I don't have a misplaced sense of importance about myself to think that I am trying to light the bright sky of assamnet. What I have been trying for the last few months is to share my concern on many issues ! gt; pertaining to Assam and to look for at least a couple of solutions in a collective and consensual way. Mr Deka might have missed many of our (Mahanta -da's and mine) earlier mails on similar kind of issues. But g! t; what have we achieved so far ? Now I have decided not to give counter arguments due to the following reasons. 1) We are becoming more and more theoretical 2) Paucity of time at my side to indulge in something with no workable solution at sight 3) Gradual turning of the whole issue into some kind of one-upmanship 4
Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India
That, Malabika, may be an instance of C-da trying to make many people believe that the colour of the blackboard is white :-) I don't see any black boards these days - they are all whiteboards. I assume C'da must have been on a 'conversion' rampage :). Ram On 11/14/05, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 3:24 PM -0600 11/14/05, Roy, Santanu wrote: That, Malabika, may be an instance of C-da trying to make many people believe that the colour of the blackboard is white :-) Santanu. Awright Wiseguys! Cut it out now ! :-) -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Malabika BrahmaSent: Monday, November 14, 2005 2:25 PM To: Chan MahantaCc: assam@assamnet.orgSubject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India unflattering physical attributes--you name it. That's a news ! I always thought the general consensus was quite the opposite :) Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Mayur:Secondly, I did not say anything about leaving assamnet.I am glad to hear that :-). At a personal level, I have high regard for Mahanta-dawhich is clearly exemplified in some of my earlier mails on assamnet. I appreciate his formidableanalytical skills to make many people believe that the colour of theblackboard is white.*** Thanks much for the kind words. But obviously you have gone way over with my abilities like making black appear white. In the pastpeople have called me assorted names, assigned ulterior motives,tried to hurt me by citing my advancing age and unflattering physicalattributes--you name it. But attributing supernatural abilities is a first. There has to be a far more credible and rational explanationfor it, don't you think? Allow me to give you a hint : How aboutmaking just plain old common sense ? Is it possible :-)?cm At 9:53 AM -0800 11/14/05, mayur bora wrote:Dear Santanu-daThank you for your kind words about my introduction. Iwas not exactly offended by that comparison byDilip-da. I was no doubt amused and found the whole thing totally uncalled for. But as indicated now byMahanta-da about some past episodes of impersonationon assamnet, I feel it might have been an outcome ofthat.Secondly, I did not say anything about leaving assamnet. I want to leave the debate on sovereigntypurely on a temporary basis till the blueprint isoffered by someone for a threadbare discussion. Withall the humility at my command, I wish to state that I write only when some issue touches my heart andinspires me to pour out my feelings. I will keep ondoing that.At a personal level, I have high regard for Mahanta-dawhich is clearly exemplified in some of my earlier mails on assamnet. I appreciate his formidableanalytical skills to make many people believe that thecolour of the blackboard is white. It is always apleasure to have a debate in general on assamnet and with Mahanta-da in particular. I don't intend todeprive me of that pleasure so easily.Take care.Mayur--- Roy, Santanu wrote: Dear Mayur: Please don't be offended by Dilip-da comparing you to a comet or a shadow. He means well. Fact is that you write very well and many on this net, who are not active right now, find your arguments extremely relevant and laud your ability to articulate them with intellectual honesty. Perhaps, they want to see you write more often (which is understandably time consuming). In any case, please keep writing - as often as you can - and not necessarily about sovereignty. Take care - Santanu-da. To other netters: Mayur is very real, a former student of economics from my own college in Delhi (much younger than me, of course) now managing a major public sector bank in Chandigarh. Its a pleasure to have him on the net. -Original Message- From: mayur bora [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Mon 11/14/2005 10:28 PM To: Dilip/Dil Deka; Roy, Santanu; Chan Mahanta; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: assam@assamnet.org Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India My knowledge about science in general and astronomy in particular is extremely poor. Even then I could not resist the temptation of asking the gentleman about the logic of comparing me to a comet as I joined assamnet only during August 2005. Does any comet keep on coming and vanishing so frequently ? Secondly I don't have a misplaced sense of importance about myself to think that I am trying to light the bright sky of assamnet. What I have been trying for the last few months is to share my concern on many issues pertaining to Assam and to look for at least a couple of solutions in a collective and consensual way. Mr Deka might have missed many of our (Mahanta -da's and mine) earlier mails on similar kind of issues. But what have we achieved so far ? Now I have decided not to give counter arguments due to the following reasons. 1) We are becoming more and more theoretical 2) Paucity of time at my side to indulge in something with no workable solution at sight 3) Gradual turning of the whole
Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India
Just You wait a little longer. mm From: "Barua25" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: "Dilip/Dil Deka" [EMAIL PROTECTED],"Chan Mahanta" [EMAIL PROTECTED]CC: assam@assamnet.orgSubject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland IndiaDate: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 15:00:58 -0600 I agree my brother is often cryptic. Even I feel that way. People have different styles of communicating. My brother assumes, obviously incorrectly, that we know of the many things he does. Unfortunately we don't. And thus it is difficult for us to connect the dots. But that is NOT his fault :-). Having said that, I would agree that ultimately it is a matter of both COMMUNICATING and EDUCATING. But those who are trying to learn, sincerely, cannot do so by either posing challenges only and/or with a confrontational attitude. A leader is one who not only knows stuff but who has strong conviction about a certain way things need to be done and he can communicate well his conviction to his fellow beings so that others are convinced of his conviction. If a leader assumes that others are supposed to know what he knows, then he is not a leader. (Period). We have many knowledgeable people in Assam and everywhere else in this world who are of no use to the public unless they can communicate their knowledge. Everybody is willing to learn from a leader who has strong convictions. Till others are convinced though, there will bestrong confrontations which the would be leader will have to overcome. Today, we say thatTarun Gogoi or Prafulla Mahanta are notstrong leaders simply because they fail on above counts. Frankly speaking, from what I have seen in the net so far about your brother's communication, he may be a very knowledgeable engineer and a very knowledgable and intelligent above average person, but he seems to befailing miserably as a leader in the following respects: 1) Wehave not seen his convictions (other than the fact that he supports ULFA like many other Tom, Dick and Harry. People donot have time to listen to Tom, Dick and Harry.) 2) We have not seen any explanation of his convictions so that others are convinced. But Assam so badly need leaders today that I would think that people are in general would besympathetic to hear any strong voice with conviction RB - Original Message - From: Dilip/Dil Deka To: Chan Mahanta Cc: assam@assamnet.org Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 1:05 PM Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India Nulu, Mayur Bora, I think, is a shadow just like Bidyut Kakati. Another impersonation. Do you have any inkling who it could be? DilipChan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Mayur: I was looking forward to getting some specific answers to all the questions I asked you about your charges of my various 'specious' arguments, about the excessive nature of my analyses, about how Indian governance is helping reduce the rifts between the many indigenous people-your primary concern about Assam, how you justify that as a reason AGAINST Assam's sovereignty aspirations, so on and so forth. Since you failed to answer any of them other than repeat your opinions, will it be fair for us to conclude that those were merely your fancy words and that there was no substance to them, that you don't know why you make those charges and comments and deliver those opinions ? And if you do not agree, will you explain why? Yes, I will be pleased to explain the disarray in Assam's management and how they are rooted in the dysfunctional Indian governance. However, that is not to be construed as the people in charge of Assam governance have no responsibility at all, like some of our friends here assume, as soon as we discuss the Indian governmental roots of the problems, and get all very excited. They too are accountable. The question however is HOW do you hold them accountable? How do you change things? I presume you too do not like what you see. But what is YOUR plan, and how do you see MORE of the same being better than changes and reforms under a sovereign Assam govt.? Many of our Markhowa ( Markin Kharkhowa) peers, with their terribly incomplete understanding of democracy, answer that elections provide the accountability, that hold the governments accountable. Do they? Governments come and governments go? Does anything change? And if nothing changes, why so? Before I go any further I want some answers from you. I am not about to submit myself here into your inquisition. If you ask something, because you don't know, and if I know the answer, it will be my pleasure a share that. But yours is a CHALLENGE, an inquisition. Under the circumstances, I intend to hold YOU to explain your conclusions, charges, and questions as well. Fair deal? Hats off to your capability inunderstanding your brother's posts in the right perspective. I don't understand his cryptic repliesmany a time. *** Thanks. But it seems like something salutary only to those who are not anywhere
Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India
I agree my brother is often cryptic. Even I feel that way. People have different styles of communicating. My brother assumes, obviously incorrectly, that we know of the many things he does. Unfortunately we don't. And thus it is difficult for us to connect the dots. But that is NOT his fault :-). Having said that, I would agree that ultimately it is a matter of both COMMUNICATING and EDUCATING. But those who are trying to learn, sincerely, cannot do so by either posing challenges only and/or with a confrontational attitude. A leader is one who not only knows stuff but who has strong conviction about a certain way things need to be done and he can communicate well his conviction to his fellow beings so that others are convinced of his conviction. If a leader assumes that others are supposed to know what he knows, then he is not a leader. (Period). We have many knowledgeable people in Assam and everywhere else in this world who are of no use to the public unless they can communicate their knowledge. Everybody is willing to learn from a leader who has strong convictions. Till others are convinced though, there will bestrong confrontations which the would be leader will have to overcome. Today, we say thatTarun Gogoi or Prafulla Mahanta are notstrong leaders simply because they fail on above counts. Frankly speaking, from what I have seen in the net so far about your brother's communication, he may be a very knowledgeable engineer and a very knowledgable and intelligent above average person, but he seems to befailing miserably as a leader in the following respects: 1) Wehave not seen his convictions (other than the fact that he supports ULFA like many other Tom, Dick and Harry. People donot have time to listen to Tom, Dick and Harry.) 2) We have not seen any explanation of his convictions so that others are convinced. But Assam so badly need leaders today that I would think that people are in general would besympathetic to hear any strong voice with conviction RB - Original Message - From: Dilip/Dil Deka To: Chan Mahanta Cc: assam@assamnet.org Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 1:05 PM Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India Nulu, Mayur Bora, I think, is a shadow just like Bidyut Kakati. Another impersonation. Do you have any inkling who it could be? DilipChan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Mayur: I was looking forward to getting some specific answers to all the questions I asked you about your charges of my various 'specious' arguments, about the excessive nature of my analyses, about how Indian governance is helping reduce the rifts between the many indigenous people-your primary concern about Assam, how you justify that as a reason AGAINST Assam's sovereignty aspirations, so on and so forth. Since you failed to answer any of them other than repeat your opinions, will it be fair for us to conclude that those were merely your fancy words and that there was no substance to them, that you don't know why you make those charges and comments and deliver those opinions ? And if you do not agree, will you explain why? Yes, I will be pleased to explain the disarray in Assam's management and how they are rooted in the dysfunctional Indian governance. However, that is not to be construed as the people in charge of Assam governance have no responsibility at all, like some of our friends here assume, as soon as we discuss the Indian governmental roots of the problems, and get all very excited. They too are accountable. The question however is HOW do you hold them accountable? How do you change things? I presume you too do not like what you see. But what is YOUR plan, and how do you see MORE of the same being better than changes and reforms under a sovereign Assam govt.? Many of our Markhowa ( Markin Kharkhowa) peers, with their terribly incomplete understanding of democracy, answer that elections provide the accountability, that hold the governments accountable. Do they? Governments come and governments go? Does anything change? And if nothing changes, why so? Before I go any further I want some answers from you. I am not about to submit myself here into your inquisition. If you ask something, because you don't know, and if I know the answer, it will be my pleasure a share that. But yours is a CHALLENGE, an inquisition. Under the circumstances, I intend to hold YOU to explain your conclusions, charges, and questions as well. Fair deal? Hats off to your capability inunderstanding your brother's posts in the right perspective. I don't understand his cryptic repliesmany a time. *** Thanks. But it seems like something salutary only to those who
Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India
Dilip-da: Why do you think Mayur Bora is a shadow? Santanu. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Dilip/Dil Deka Sent: Mon 11/14/2005 4:05 AM To: Chan Mahanta Cc: assam@assamnet.org Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India Nulu, Mayur Bora, I think, is a shadow just like Bidyut Kakati. Another impersonation. Do you have any inkling who it could be? Dilip Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Mayur: I was looking forward to getting some specific answers to all the questions I asked you about your charges of my various 'specious' arguments, about the excessive nature of my analyses, about how Indian governance is helping reduce the rifts between the many indigenous people-your primary concern about Assam, how you justify that as a reason AGAINST Assam's sovereignty aspirations, so on and so forth. Since you failed to answer any of them other than repeat your opinions, will it be fair for us to conclude that those were merely your fancy words and that there was no substance to them, that you don't know why you make those charges and comments and deliver those opinions ? And if you do not agree, will you explain why? Yes, I will be pleased to explain the disarray in Assam's management and how they are rooted in the dysfunctional Indian governance. However, that is not to be construed as the people in charge of Assam governance have no responsibility at all, like some of our friends here assume, as soon as we discuss the Indian governmental roots of the problems, and get all very excited. They too are accountable. The question however is HOW do you hold them accountable? How do you change things? I presume you too do not like what you see. But what is YOUR plan, and how do you see MORE of the same being better than changes and reforms under a sovereign Assam govt.? Many of our Markhowa ( Markin Kharkhowa) peers, with their terribly incomplete understanding of democracy, answer that elections provide the accountability, that hold the governments accountable. Do they? Governments come and governments go? Does anything change? And if nothing changes, why so? Before I go any further I want some answers from you. I am not about to submit myself here into your inquisition. If you ask something, because you don't know, and if I know the answer, it will be my pleasure a share that. But yours is a CHALLENGE, an inquisition. Under the circumstances, I intend to hold YOU to explain your conclusions, charges, and questions as well. Fair deal? Hats off to your capability in understanding your brother's posts in the rightperspective. I don't understand his cryptic repliesmany a time. *** Thanks. But it seems like something salutary only to those who are not anywhere near having any understanding of the issues involved. I agree my brother is often cryptic. Even I feel that way. People have different styles of communicating. My brother assumes, obviously incorrectly, that we know of the many things he does. Unfortunately we don't. And thus it is difficult for us to connect the dots. But that is NOT his fault :-). Having said that, I would agree that ultimately it is a matter of both COMMUNICATING and EDUCATING. But those who are trying to learn, sincerely, cannot do so by either posing challenges only and/or with a confrontational attitude. Challenges are meaningless, unless the challenger also could explain what they defend. cm At 10:57 PM -0800 11/12/05, mayur bora wrote: Dear Mahanta da Sorry for being late in my reply. I think it is better to accept the fact that we disagree on almost all the points about Assam's aspirations for independence. I went through your detailed response carefully before coming to the conclusion that your logic failed to convince me about its utility and applicability in the forseeable future. We are better off within India than outside it. I am in fact eager to see how you would like to attribute the absolutelty unprofessional conduct of assam policemen to GoI (as per The Sentinel news). This is more or less reflected in all the state govt departments. How do you envisage a very rosy picture in sovereign assam with the same kind of people 'with complete overhaul of the system' remains an enigma to me? Of course it may be due to my 'low inferentialcapabilities'. Hats off to your capability in understanding your brother's posts in the rightperspective. I don't understand his cryptic repliesmany a time. A comprehensive blueprint encompassing economic, social, political and administrative issues in sovereign Assam is the first and foremost need for a meaningful and wider debate on the pros and cons of it before trying to mislead people with theoritical rebuttal. I would consider myself fortunate if you or anyone of that school of thought can share their wisdom about any workable and practical plan on any one aspect (say administrative
Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India
yes , sometimes he lacks conviction, and also incomprehensible ( good for him and bad for us) but why are we talking so much about him. Has assamnet started revolving around this big brother, just because he has got lot of spare time to write. Or the others don't haveany time and ideas left ? Cheers!! Prasenjit On 11/13/05, Barua25 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree my brother is often cryptic. Even I feel that way. People have different styles of communicating. My brother assumes, obviously incorrectly, that we know of the many things he does. Unfortunately we don't. And thus it is difficult for us to connect the dots. But that is NOT his fault :-). Having said that, I would agree that ultimately it is a matter of both COMMUNICATING and EDUCATING. But those who are trying to learn, sincerely, cannot do so by either posing challenges only and/or with a confrontational attitude. A leader is one who not only knows stuff but who has strong conviction about a certain way things need to be done and he can communicate well his conviction to his fellow beings so that others are convinced of his conviction. If a leader assumes that others are supposed to know what he knows, then he is not a leader. (Period). We have many knowledgeable people in Assam and everywhere else in this world who are of no use to the public unless they can communicate their knowledge. Everybody is willing to learn from a leader who has strong convictions. Till others are convinced though, there will bestrong confrontations which the would be leader will have to overcome. Today, we say thatTarun Gogoi or Prafulla Mahanta are notstrong leaders simply because they fail on above counts. Frankly speaking, from what I have seen in the net so far about your brother's communication, he may be a very knowledgeable engineer and a very knowledgable and intelligent above average person, but he seems to befailing miserably as a leader in the following respects: 1) Wehave not seen his convictions (other than the fact that he supports ULFA like many other Tom, Dick and Harry. People donot have time to listen to Tom, Dick and Harry.) 2) We have not seen any explanation of his convictions so that others are convinced. But Assam so badly need leaders today that I would think that people are in general would besympathetic to hear any strong voice with conviction RB - Original Message - From: Dilip/Dil Deka To: Chan Mahanta Cc: assam@assamnet.org Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 1:05 PM Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India Nulu, Mayur Bora, I think, is a shadow just like Bidyut Kakati. Another impersonation. Do you have any inkling who it could be? DilipChan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Mayur: I was looking forward to getting some specific answers to all the questions I asked you about your charges of my various 'specious' arguments, about the excessive nature of my analyses, about how Indian governance is helping reduce the rifts between the many indigenous people-your primary concern about Assam, how you justify that as a reason AGAINST Assam's sovereignty aspirations, so on and so forth. Since you failed to answer any of them other than repeat your opinions, will it be fair for us to conclude that those were merely your fancy words and that there was no substance to them, that you don't know why you make those charges and comments and deliver those opinions ? And if you do not agree, will you explain why? Yes, I will be pleased to explain the disarray in Assam's management and how they are rooted in the dysfunctional Indian governance. However, that is not to be construed as the people in charge of Assam governance have no responsibility at all, like some of our friends here assume, as soon as we discuss the Indian governmental roots of the problems, and get all very excited. They too are accountable. The question however is HOW do you hold them accountable? How do you change things? I presume you too do not like what you see. But what is YOUR plan, and how do you see MORE of the same being better than changes and reforms under a sovereign Assam govt.? Many of our Markhowa ( Markin Kharkhowa) peers, with their terribly incomplete understanding of democracy, answer that elections provide the accountability, that hold the governments accountable. Do they? Governments come and governments go? Does anything change? And if nothing changes, why so? Before I go any further I want some answers from you. I am not about to submit myself here into your inquisition. If you ask something, because you don't know, and if I know the answer, it will be my pleasure a share that. But yours is a CHALLENGE, an inquisition. Under the circumstances, I intend to hold YOU to explain your conclusions, charges, and questions as well. Fair deal? Hats off to your capability inunderstanding your brother's posts in the right perspective. I don't understand his cryptic repliesmany a time. *** Thanks
Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India
Title: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India
What you said you have not contradicted
me, and as I said, I would consider your brother to be e a very knowledgeable
engineer and a very knowledgable and intelligent above average person, and leave
him at that.
RB
- Original Message -
From:
Chan
Mahanta
To: Barua25 ; Dilip/Dil Deka ; Chan Mahanta
Cc: assam@assamnet.org
Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 4:38
PM
Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient
Links with Mainland India
At 3:00 PM -0600 11/13/05, Barua25 wrote:
I agree my
brother is often cryptic. Even I feel that way. People have different
styles of communicating. My brother assumes, obviously incorrectly, that
we know of the many things he does. Unfortunately we don't. And thus
it is difficult for us to connect the dots. But that is NOT his fault
:-). Having said that, I would agree that ultimately it is a matter of
both COMMUNICATING
and
EDUCATING. But those who are trying to learn, sincerely, cannot
do so by either posing challenges only and/or with a
confrontational attitude.
A leader is
one who not only knows stuff but who has strong conviction about a certain
way things need to be done and he can communicate well his conviction to his
fellow beings so that others are convinced of his
conviction.
I don't know the definition of a leader. And personally I have never
felt the need for a leader to lead me and for me to follow. So I couldn't
offer my own interpretation here. I have been fortunate enough to be able to
find my own way around, and whatever I have found, served me and my family
relatively decently.
My brother is the same way, in fact much more so than me. And that is how
he inspired us.
Everybody is willing to learn from a
leader who has strong convictions.
*** I don't know that my brother's aim in life has been to teach others.
However, I have seen many many people come to him because he is very
approachable. I suspect those who do, get something from it. But again that is
for others to judge.
but he seems to befailing
miserably as a leader in the following respects:
That is for you to judge. I am not here to promote my
brother's
leadership abilities. I know that he does not go about seeking either
followers,or accolades from others, regardless of their qualities to judge who
is a leader and who is not.
1) Wehave not seen his
convictions
*** As far as I know, he does not OWE anyone to bring explanations of his
convictions on a silver platter, complete with 'tamwl-paan'. Just like you
don't. Just like I don't. But it becomes apparent during conversations and
exchanges.
2) We have not seen any explanation
of his convictions so that others are convinced.
*** Again it is for you to judge. But *I* don't need anybody's coaching
on the subject.
If a
leader assumes that others are supposed to know what he knows, then he is
not a leader. (Period). We have many knowledgeable people in Assam and
everywhere else in this world who are of no use to the public unless they
can communicate their knowledge.
Everybody
is willing to learn from a leader who has strong convictions. Till others
are convinced though, there will bestrong confrontations which the
would be leader will have to overcome. Today, we say thatTarun
Gogoi or Prafulla Mahanta are notstrong leaders simply because they
fail on above counts.
Frankly
speaking, from what I have seen in the net so far about your brother's
communication, he may be a very knowledgeable engineer and a very
knowledgable and intelligent above average person, but he seems to
befailing miserably as a leader in the following
respects:
1)
Wehave not seen his convictions (other than the fact that he supports
ULFA like many other Tom, Dick and Harry. People donot have time to listen
to Tom, Dick and Harry.)
2) We have
not seen any explanation of his convictions so that others are
convinced.
But Assam
so badly need leaders today that I would think that people are in general
would besympathetic to hear any strong voice with
conviction
RB
- Original Message -
From: Dilip/Dil
Deka
To: Chan
Mahanta
Cc: assam@assamnet.org
Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 1:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with
Mainland India
Nulu,
Mayur Bora, I think, is a shadow just like Bidyut Kakati.
Another impersonation. Do you have any inkling who it could be?
DilipChan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
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Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India
Santanu, First of all I apologize to everyone for copying a personal mail to Assamnet. It was meant to be only for Chandan Mahanta since he was trying so hard to get a response from Mayur Bora and it looked to me Mayur Bora was like a comet. He lit up the skies of Assamnet for a short while and vanished. We have had so many shadows come and go in Assamnet, I felt here is another. I of course hope that Mayur Bora is a real person and he will continue to participate in Assamnet. We know for sure that Bidyut Kakati is an assumed name just like Dr. Tilok Hatimuriya and Dipankar Pungta were (R.I.P). Prasenjit, This has nothing to do with unity or disunity. Mine was a simple observation and a simple query to my friend Chandan Mahanta. It is unfortunate that Assamnet's name remained when I deleted the other names from the original mail. Despite occasional flare up that you see in this net, in general the discussions are civil compared to many other nets I have seen. So stay calm and participate in the discussions as your time allows. Pseudonames though distracting will not alter the course. Dilip Deka ==="Roy, Santanu" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dilip-da: Why do you think Mayur Bora is a shadow? Santanu. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Dilip/Dil DekaSent: Mon 11/14/2005 4:05 AMTo: Chan MahantaCc: assam@assamnet.orgSubject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland IndiaNulu,Mayur Bora, I think, is a shadow just like Bidyut Kakati. Another impersonation. Do you have any inkling who it could be?DilipChan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:Hi Mayur:I was looking forward to getting some specific answers to all the questions I asked you about your charges of my various 'specious' arguments, about the excessive nature of my analyses, about how Indian governance is helping reduce the rifts between the many indigenous people-your primary concern about Assam, how you justify that as a reason AGAINST Assam's sovereignty aspirations, so on and so forth.Since you failed to answer any of them other than repeat your opinions, will it be fair for us to conclude that those were merely your fancy words and that there was no substance to them, that you don't know why you make those charges and comments and deliver those opinions ? And if you do not agree, will you explain why?Yes, I will be pleased to explain the disarray in Assam's management and how they are rooted in the dysfunctional Indian governance. However, that is not to be construed as the people in charge of Assam governance have no responsibility at all, like some of our friends here assume, as soon as we discuss the Indian governmental roots of the problems, and get all very excited. They too are accountable.The question however is HOW do you hold them accountable? How do you change things? I presume you too do not like what you see. But what is YOUR plan, and how do you see MORE of the same being better than changes and reforms under a sovereign Assam govt.?Many of our Markhowa ( Markin Kharkhowa) peers, with their terribly incomplete understanding of democracy, answer that elections provide the accountability, that hold the governments accountable. Do they? Governments come and governments go? Does anything change? And if nothing changes, why so? Before I go any further I want some answers from you. I am not about to submit myself here into your inquisition. If you ask something, because you don't know, and if I know the answer, it will be my pleasure a share that. But yours is a CHALLENGE, an inquisition. Under the circumstances, I intend to hold YOU to explain your conclusions, charges, and questions as well.Fair deal?Hats off to your capability inunderstanding your brother's posts in the rightperspective. I don't understand his cryptic repliesmany a time.*** Thanks. But it seems like something salutary only to those who are not anywhere near having any understanding of the issues involved.I agree my brother is often cryptic. Even I feel that way. People have different styles of communicating. My brother assumes, obviously incorrectly, that we know of the many things he does. Unfortunately we don't. And thus it is difficult for us to connect the dots. But that is NOT his fault :-). Having said that, I would agree that ultimately it is a matter of both COMMUNICATINGand EDUCATING. But those who are trying to learn, sincerely, cannot do so by either posing challenges only and/or with a confrontational attitude.Challenges are meaningless, unless the challenger also could explain what they defend.cmAt 10:57 PM -0800 11/12/05, mayur bora wrote:Dear Mahanta daSorry for being late in my reply. I think it is betterto accept the fact that we disagree on almost all thepoints about Assam's aspirations for independence. Iwent through your detailed response carefully beforecoming to the conclusion that your logic failed toconvince me about its utility
Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India
Title: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland
India
At 6:06 PM -0600 11/13/05, Barua25 wrote:
What
you said you have not contradicted me, and as I said, I would consider
your brother to be e a very knowledgeable engineer and a very
knowledgable and intelligent above average person, and leave him at
that.
*** But it never has been about my brother.
RB
- Original Message -
From: Chan
Mahanta
To: Barua25 ; Dilip/Dil Deka ; Chan Mahanta
Cc: assam@assamnet.org
Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 4:38
PM
Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with
Mainland India
At 3:00 PM -0600 11/13/05, Barua25 wrote:
I agree
my brother is often cryptic. Even I feel that way. People have
different styles of communicating. My brother assumes, obviously
incorrectly, that we know of the many things he does.
Unfortunately we don't. And thus it is difficult for us to connect
the dots. But that is NOT his fault :-). Having said that, I would
agree that ultimately it is a matter of both
COMMUNICATING
and EDUCATING. But
those who are trying to learn, sincerely, cannot do so by
either posing challenges only and/or with a
confrontational attitude.
A leader is one who
not only knows stuff but who has strong conviction about a certain way
things need to be done and he can communicate well his conviction to
his fellow beings so that others are convinced of his
conviction.
I don't know the definition of a leader. And
personally I have never felt the need for a leader to lead me and for
me to follow. So I couldn't offer my own interpretation here. I have
been fortunate enough to be able to find my own way around, and
whatever I have found, served me and my family relatively
decently.
My brother is the same way, in fact much more so than me.
And that is how he inspired us.
Everybody is
willing to learn from a leader who has strong
convictions.
*** I don't know that my brother's aim in life has been to
teach others. However, I have seen many many people come to him
because he is very approachable. I suspect those who do, get something
from it. But again that is for others to judge.
but he seems to
befailing miserably as a leader in the following
respects:
That is for you to judge. I am not here to promote my
brother's
leadership abilities. I know that he does not go about
seeking either followers,or accolades from others, regardless of their
qualities to judge who is a leader and who is not.
1) Wehave
not seen his convictions
*** As far as I know, he does not OWE anyone to bring
explanations of his convictions on a silver platter, complete with
'tamwl-paan'. Just like you don't. Just like I don't. But it becomes
apparent during conversations and exchanges.
2) We have not
seen any explanation of his convictions so that others are
convinced.
*** Again it is for you to judge. But *I* don't need
anybody's coaching on the subject.
If a leader assumes that others are supposed to
know what he knows, then he is not a leader. (Period). We have many
knowledgeable people in Assam and everywhere else in this world who
are of no use to the public unless they can communicate their
knowledge.
Everybody is willing
to learn from a leader who has strong convictions. Till others are
convinced though, there will bestrong confrontations which the
would be leader will have to overcome. Today, we say
thatTarun Gogoi or Prafulla Mahanta are notstrong leaders
simply because they fail on above counts.
Frankly speaking,
from what I have seen in the net so far about your brother's
communication, he may be a very knowledgeable engineer and a very
knowledgable and intelligent above average person, but he seems to
befailing miserably as a leader in the following
respects:
1) Wehave not
seen his convictions (other than the fact that he supports ULFA like
many other Tom, Dick and Harry. People donot have time to listen to
Tom, Dick and Harry.)
2) We have not seen
any explanation of his convictions so that others are
convinced.
But Assam so badly
need leaders today that I would think that people are in general would
besympathetic to hear any strong voice with
conviction
RB
- Original Message -
From: Dilip/Dil Deka
To: Chan
Mahanta
Cc: assam@assamnet.org
Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 1:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with
Mainland India
Nulu,
Mayur Bora, I think, is a shadow just like Bidyut Kakati.
Another impersonation. Do you have any inkling who it could be?
Dilip
Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
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Hi Mayur:
I was looking forward to getting some specific answers to
all the questions I asked you about your charges of my various
'specious' arguments, about the excessive nature of my analyses, about
how Indian
Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India
Title: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India Hi Prasenjit: At 10:44 PM + 11/13/05, Prasenjit Chetia wrote: Mr. Deka; Though it is not at all anything personal, but to you and all other netter here is a request to take things in a positive way and refrain from digging old things and become a deviator. If you can't stay united staying thousands of miles away and show your mindless bickerings to public in such a shamelesss manner, how can you stay united in your motherland ? here is a request to take things in a positive way and refrain from digging old things and become a deviator. *** What does this mean? What is being taken negatively and what OLD thing is being dug up here? And what is he DEVIATING from? Dilip and I, in spite of being friends of forty three years, have political differences, and we differ PUBLICLY, when we do. Reasonable people could question Dilip's questioning of whether Mayur is an authentic person. I replied to him, privately, that I have no reason to believe that Mayur is NOT authentic. There have been, in the past, instances of people posting in Assam Net with pseudonyms. Some have been harmless, others have been decidedly malicious. But what on earth does your comment mean? What is his 'mindless bickering' that you saw in his post? Surely I missed it. He could be wrong about his doubts, as I think he was. But where was the BICKERING? I hope you know the meaning of the word. And what does it have to do with being UNITED? Surely everyone knows that there is NO unity in the Oxommiya community in the USA. But that has NOTHING to do with Dilip's question here. Or does it? If it does, can you help us understand HOW? Don't take it personally, that's a humble request. *** Sorry Prasenjit, the request is neither humble, nor is it impersonal. Your comments were nothing less than 'urohor khong bhoga dharit xaara'. I can appreciate Santanu's questioning why Dilip might have doubted Mayur's authenticity, but your comments were , at best, off the wall. cm Don't take it personally, that's a humble request. Prasenjit On 11/13/05, Dilip/Dil Deka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nulu, Mayur Bora, I think, is a shadow just like Bidyut Kakati. Another impersonation. Do you have any inkling who it could be? Dilip Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Mayur: I was looking forward to getting some specific answers to all the questions I asked you about your charges of my various 'specious' arguments, about the excessive nature of my analyses, about how Indian governance is helping reduce the rifts between the many indigenous people-your primary concern about Assam, how you justify that as a reason AGAINST Assam's sovereignty aspirations, so on and so forth. Since you failed to answer any of them other than repeat your opinions, will it be fair for us to conclude that those were merely your fancy words and that there was no substance to them, that you don't know why you make those charges and comments and deliver those opinions ? And if you do not agree, will you explain why? Yes, I will be pleased to explain the disarray in Assam's management and how they are rooted in the dysfunctional Indian governance. However, that is not to be construed as the people in charge of Assam governance have no responsibility at all, like some of our friends here assume, as soon as we discuss the Indian governmental roots of the problems, and get all very excited. They too are accountable. The question however is HOW do you hold them accountable? How do you change things? I presume you too do not like what you see. But what is YOUR plan, and how do you see MORE of the same being better than changes and reforms under a sovereign Assam govt.? Many of our Markhowa ( Markin Kharkhowa) peers, with their terribly incomplete understanding of democracy, answer that elections provide the accountability, that hold the governments accountable. Do they? Governments come and governments go? Does anything change? And if nothing changes, why so? Before I go any further I want some answers from you. I am not about to submit myself here into your inquisition. If you ask something, because you don't know, and if I know the answer, it will be my pleasure a share that. But yours is a CHALLENGE, an inquisition. Under the circumstances, I intend to hold YOU to explain your conclusions, charges, and questions as well. Fair deal? Hats off to your capability in understanding your brother's posts in the right perspective. I don't understand his cryptic repliesmany a time. *** Thanks. But it seems like something salutary only to those who are not anywhere near having any understanding of the issues involved. I agree my brother is often cryptic. Even I feel that way. People have different styles of communicating. My brother assumes, obviously incorrectly, that we know of the many things he does. Unfortunately we don't. And thus it is difficult for us to connect the dots
Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India
Dear Mahanta da Sorry for being late in my reply. I think it is better to accept the fact that we disagree on almost all the points about Assam's aspirations for independence. I went through your detailed response carefully before coming to the conclusion that your logic failed to convince me about its utility and applicability in the forseeable future. We are better off within India than outside it. I am in fact eager to see how you would like to attribute the absolutelty unprofessional conduct of assam policemen to GoI (as per The Sentinel news). This is more or less reflected in all the state govt departments. How do you envisage a very rosy picture in sovereign assam with the same kind of people 'with complete overhaul of the system' remains an enigma to me? Of course it may be due to my 'low inferential capabilities'. Hats off to your capability in understanding your brother's posts in the right perspective. I don't understand his cryptic replies many a time. A comprehensive blueprint encompassing economic, social, political and administrative issues in sovereign Assam is the first and foremost need for a meaningful and wider debate on the pros and cons of it before trying to mislead people with theoritical rebuttal. I would consider myself fortunate if you or anyone of that school of thought can share their wisdom about any workable and practical plan on any one aspect (say administrative)in independent assam which will be much better, responsive and accountable than the present one. But it should not be a vague picture depicted till now in a highly polemical debate on the issue. I hope in the larger interest of many netters, you will not disappoint us and share a portion (if not the full) of your proposed blueprint. Bye for now. Mayur --- Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Mayur: At 2:52 AM -0800 11/9/05, mayur bora wrote: Dear Mahanta da Here is my response to the points you raised. 1) The total absence of a feeling of bonhomie and camaraderie among different people will completely vitiate the atmosphere and mutual distrust and acrimony will reach its zenith in sovereign Assam. You can't put the blame solely on GoI for that. *** But what about your original contention that it IS, now that is, is Assam's biggest 'weakness'? How has it gotten to where it is now, as you see it? Under whose control and under the nurturing policies crafted by whom? I was hoping to give you some help by asking you the question on the concept of 'meles' ( mlecch) , but you did avoid it like the plague, didn't you ? I understand however why you would not touch it. GoI, incidentally, has EXPLOITED the growing rifts, that developed only after the colonial powers, first the British, and the subsequent, far more corrosive Indian practices took over. *** I will like to ask you, how, as an intelligent and informed observer, you see the GoI policies helping the cause of preserving the ethnic identities of these indigenous people of the region? The Indian govt. created the many states, actually 'dependencies', of the NE, by simple majority votes of a Lok Sabha of 500 where the NE's representation is what, less than 20 , instead of promoting the co-operative, interdependent ethos that sustained them in the centuries past. These states, with no means to sustain themselves, are now abject dependencies of a Center, showering them with its largesse, creating an illusion they are doing well, but really killing their culture with a Hindi/Hindu one, political invasion, perpetuated with military might. Is that not the bitter truth Mayur? And you accept if not sing praises of such policies, playing defenders of your indigenous brethrens' culture? The only reason I would not call your intent to question here, is because you are,I am sure, just like so many of your peers, ignorant of the realities. I too was so, until recently. Fortunately I read Prof. Sanjib Baruah's book -- Durable Disorder, in which he makes some of these issues very clear. If you are really interested in understanding what has been going on, you cannot not read the book. 2) Let me accept for arguments sake that I am being obsequious to some system or culture. *** I don't understand what you are trying to say. Perhaps a simpler way of expressing yourself would be more helpful for those of us to whom English is only a second language :-). But if you are suggesting that a Hindu culture was indeed instrumental, thru the concept of 'meles', in causing the cultural alienation of the indigenous people of the NE, why can't you admit it? Why do you qualify it as merely agreeing for argument's sake? Are you trying to have it both ways? But you have already surrendered yourself to a pernicious belief whose impact will be disastrous for the people for whom you are acting as spokesman. ***
Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India
Title: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India Hi Mayur: At 2:52 AM -0800 11/9/05, mayur bora wrote: Dear Mahanta da Here is my response to the points you raised. 1) The total absence of a feeling of bonhomie and camaraderie among different people will completely vitiate the atmosphere and mutual distrust and acrimony will reach its zenith in sovereign Assam. You can't put the blame solely on GoI for that. *** But what about your original contention that it IS, now that is, is Assam's biggest 'weakness'? How has it gotten to where it is now, as you see it? Under whose control and under the nurturing policies crafted by whom? I was hoping to give you some help by asking you the question on the concept of 'meles' ( mlecch) , but you did avoid it like the plague, didn't you ? I understand however why you would not touch it. GoI, incidentally, has EXPLOITED the growing rifts, that developed only after the colonial powers, first the British, and the subsequent, far more corrosive Indian practices took over. *** I will like to ask you, how, as an intelligent and informed observer, you see the GoI policies helping the cause of preserving the ethnic identities of these indigenous people of the region? The Indian govt. created the many states, actually 'dependencies', of the NE, by simple majority votes of a Lok Sabha of 500 where the NE's representation is what, less than 20 , instead of promoting the co-operative, interdependent ethos that sustained them in the centuries past. These states, with no means to sustain themselves, are now abject dependencies of a Center, showering them with its largesse, creating an illusion they are doing well, but really killing their culture with a Hindi/Hindu one, political invasion, perpetuated with military might. Is that not the bitter truth Mayur? And you accept if not sing praises of such policies, playing defenders of your indigenous brethrens' culture? The only reason I would not call your intent to question here, is because you are,I am sure, just like so many of your peers, ignorant of the realities. I too was so, until recently. Fortunately I read Prof. Sanjib Baruah's book -- Durable Disorder, in which he makes some of these issues very clear. If you are really interested in understanding what has been going on, you cannot not read the book. 2) Let me accept for arguments sake that I am being obsequious to some system or culture. *** I don't understand what you are trying to say. Perhaps a simpler way of expressing yourself would be more helpful for those of us to whom English is only a second language :-). But if you are suggesting that a Hindu culture was indeed instrumental, thru the concept of 'meles', in causing the cultural alienation of the indigenous people of the NE, why can't you admit it? Why do you qualify it as merely agreeing for argument's sake? Are you trying to have it both ways? But you have already surrendered yourself to a pernicious belief whose impact will be disastrous for the people for whom you are acting as spokesman. *** I am a spokesperson ONLY of myself. I am not a designated representative or spokesperson of anybody. But that is not to suggest others don't agree with me. Because if it were so, those of you who disagree, would not be so wrapped up with denouncing my arguments with fancy words, but without ever being able to explain why or how. It is because you see my arguments making sense and damaging to your cause. Now what exactly do you see as MY pernicious beliefs that will be destructive for those whose views I might be reflecting? And HOW will they be destructive? I hope you can delineate those, so we can examine the substance of your opinions. Worse, you have also surrendered yourself to sophistry and casuistry in order to defend your specious arguments. *** Huh? Are you dropping philosophy on me again here Mayur? I told you I am philosophically challenged. Your effort is akin to gorur aagot twakar bai-xing jwkari ghanh khai. It means nothing to me, and I doubt to anybody else. But it will be a different issue with my 'specious' arguments. What are the arguments that I have been making that are specious ( appear sound but are fallacious--for those who are not sure what the word means)? My observations of a decade of Assam Net debates has been that no one gives me an inch, if they can find something incorrect, fallacious, or otherwise untenable. My esteemed opponents here descend on me like a crow over a June bug--as they would say here in the American heartland. The only reason they don't give examples or explain is because they can't. You got your challenge for the day Mayur. Prove it. Explain it. And when you do, I will be the first to take it back, eat crow. But fancy words will not take your arguments anywhere. My servitude is not harmful for others, but yours can spell havoc in peoples' lives. Of course you will not be affected. You will probably be busy dishing out
Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India
at sight, they try to conjure up unattainable dreams and try hard to sell them on the ephemeral strength of jugglery of words or by promising some kind of panacea which is unrealistic and basically flawed. *** That surely is the judgement of a superior intellect, rendering his verdict. But can you explain: *** Why sovereignty aspirations are flawed? *** What are unattainable dreams, and should attainability be the first consideration or the only consideration of a dream? *** Who is attempting to peddle 'words' here, without any substance behind it? You or me? Not that I like to rub it in, but could you answer the questions I raised about YOUR words in my last post? By avoiding a response did you or did you not prove that your words were the 'fwpwla', hollow ones, not mine :-)? Sovereighnty is not the panacea as they try hard to make us believe. Sooner we understand this is better. *** First of all, no one is seeking a panacea, except perhaps those who believe that their servitude is the panacea that will deliver them into a bright new world with handouts from their Mai-Baap at Hastinapur :-). But be that as it may, why don't YOU tell us WHY and WHAT sovereignty will NOT deliver for Assam? When you do, you could claim a right to your conclusions and your august verdicts. Failing which it would be another round of 'potaan dhan', that might fool or delight those blind ducks, but few others. cm :-) When people don't have any specific solution at sight, they try to conjure up unattainable dreams and try hard to sell them on the ephemeral strength of jugglery of words or by promising some kind of panacea which is unrealistic and basically flawed. Sovereighnty is not the panacea as they try hard to make us believe. Sooner we understand this is better. Mayur --- mc mahant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - I would say these reflect the same caste Hindu Assamese insensitive attitude towards the other sub ethnic groups in Assam: we know better what they want. Exactly it is for this Assamese attitude for which Assamese lost not only the Nagas, Khasis and Khamtis but also are loosing the Bodos, Mishings, Karbis, Tiwangs, Ravas and all. I can cite many examples of such insensitive remarks from caste Hindu Assamese leaders from last 100 years Assam political history. Wrong at every thought. We will create Family Republics but they will have to print their own currency. mm mm - From: Barua25 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mc mahant [EMAIL PROTECTED],[EMAIL PROTECTED],[EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: assam@assamnet.org Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 10:16:16 -0600 Patently erroneeous assumptionS. Even Delhi stopped this scary lines . 100% will agree to Sovereignty. *** Here are too many assumptions for the question === message truncated === __ Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India
Hi Mayur:
At 9:30 PM -0800 11/7/05, mayur bora wrote:
Wishing away something is very easy. Translating a
meaningful dream into reality is quite tough. It is no
wonder that many people prefer the former to drive
home their viewpoints. But fortunately, there are some
roadblocks which are difficult to demolish. People's
proclivity to attribute anything undesirable to
outside forces is like GoI putting the blame on ISI
everytime something untoward happens in India. People
are trying to denounce GoI consciosly. But
unconsciously they can't help imitating them. Whether
it can be called an 'unintended' flattery as per
CM-da's analogy earlier ? Or should I go one step
forward and say that imitation is a confession of
limitation. Don't keep it up Mukul da.
Mayur
Huh? That was a mouthful of wisdom I am sure. But what does it mean?
What is YOUR proposal for eradicating what you
believe to be Assam's no. 1 'weakness'?
Or are you too attempting to get ahead in the
world by merely saying no to others who propose
something?
Anyway. let me ask you another question here:
Are you familiar with the concept of meles ( mlecch)?
If so, do you know where that came from? And can you see its influence
on the subject?
Also, do YOU, personally that is, believe in that concept? And do you
ever invoke that in YOUR prayers, consciously or unconsciously ( I
presume you are a praying man from your responses regarding
Xonkor Joyonti)?
The questions might seem off the wall, but they
are pertinent to a point I am attempting to make
in regard to the No 1 Weakness of Kharkhowa
people as you see it. I am of course hoping that
you have what it takes to delve into the matter.
But I will understand if you avoid this too, like
the plague or otherwise.
cm :-)
--- mc mahant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
-
can a provide any
realistic and workable solution to dispel the
legitimate feeling of mistrust among many of the
tribal people towards caste Hindu Assamese.
Legitimate feeling of mistrust
Wrong assumption again. Dying of self pity? Go to the
offensive and show that the enemy is from outside.
Who is Caste Hindu. I am not. You are not. Who is ?
Disown him .
Without a Sovereign Assam you cannot even start
creating a proud,hardworking,focussed modern nation.
Come up with abetter model.Come out . Sensitive
thinkers do not need repeated requests.
mm
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-
From: Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: mayur bora [EMAIL PROTECTED], mc mahant
[EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
CC: assam@assamnet.org, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with
Mainland India
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 13:11:15 -0600
blockquote, dl, ul, ol,
li{padding-top:0;padding-bottom:0;}At 9:17 AM -0800
11/7/05, mayur bora wrote:
I can't agree more with Rajen da's comment on the
attitude of caste Hindu Assamese people towards
thetribes of Assam.
*** I join you there Mayur. But what does that have
to do with Assam's sovereignty aspirations?
BTW, caste Hindus' mistreatment of their fellow men
was not limited to the indigenous people of Assam
alone, but fell on their own brethren who did not
quite cut it as their equals.
Now take a wild guess on where these ideas came from,
where they are still nurtured and is a major force in
politics and governance? Did you hear about the Muslim
village pillaged and several Muslims incinerated by
mobs in UP, on the RUMOR that they slaughtered cows
for celebrating ID, and turns out there was no truth
to the rumors?
And if I am not mistaken, you submit yourself to that
very culture in an abject display of servitude, don't
you?
When I listed out the weaknesses of
Assamese people sometime back on assamnet, this was
the first weakness cited by me.
*** This is not a 'weakness' of ALL the people of
Assam. It is of only a certain segment. Also, such
ill-treatment and discrimination is possible only by
those who wield POWER, be it political,be it economic,
be it religious.
I would be very happy
if Mahanta da-s (both CM and MM)can a provide any
realistic and workable solution to dispel the
legitimate feeling of mistrust among many of the
tribal people towards caste Hindu Assamese.
*** Why me or my brother? Why not YOU? Why not Rajen?
But I have explained. If you don't agree, tell us
why. If you could not understand, ask. I will be
pleased to try and explain again. But to go about
repeating your Mantra, without any explanation could
paint an unflattering picture of your deliberative
skills.
*** Are you attempting to suggest here that because of
this CULTURAL mistrust between the indigenous people
and the caste Hindus, Assam has forfeited its
sovereignty aspirations? Is that your best argument
a trump card on your stand against Assam's
sovereignty?
If it is, you need to work on it much harder Mayur
:-). Because the political fracture
Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India
I can't agree more with Rajen da's comment on the
attitude of caste Hindu Assamese people towards the
tribes of Assam. When I listed out the weaknesses of
Assamese people sometime back on assamnet, this was
the first weakness cited by me. I would be very happy
if Mahanta da-s (both CM and MM)can a provide any
realistic and workable solution to dispel the
legitimate feeling of mistrust among many of the
tribal people towards caste Hindu Assamese. When
people don't have any specific solution at sight, they
try to conjure up unattainable dreams and try hard to
sell them on the ephemeral strength of jugglery of
words or by promising some kind of panacea which is
unrealistic and basically flawed. Sovereighnty is not
the panacea as they try hard to make us believe.
Sooner we understand this is better.
Mayur
--- mc mahant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
-
I would say these reflect the same caste Hindu
Assamese insensitive attitude towards the other sub
ethnic groups in Assam: we know better what they
want. Exactly it is for this Assamese attitude for
which Assamese lost not only the Nagas, Khasis and
Khamtis but also are loosing the Bodos, Mishings,
Karbis, Tiwangs, Ravas and all. I can cite many
examples of such insensitive remarks from caste Hindu
Assamese leaders from last 100 years Assam political
history.
Wrong at every thought.
We will create Family Republics but they will have to
print their own currency.
mm
mm
-
From: Barua25 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: mc mahant
[EMAIL PROTECTED],[EMAIL PROTECTED],[EMAIL PROTECTED]
CC: assam@assamnet.org
Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with
Mainland India
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 10:16:16 -0600
Patently erroneeous assumptionS.
Even Delhi stopped this scary lines .
100% will agree to Sovereignty.
*** Here are too many assumptions for the question
which forms your answer, to hold any water. Allow me
to explain:
I would say these reflect the same caste Hindu
Assamese insensitive attitude towards the other sub
ethnic groups in Assam: we know better what they
want. Exactly it is for this Assamese attitude for
which Assamese lost not only the Nagas, Khasis and
Khamtis but also are loosing the Bodos, Mishings,
Karbis, Tiwangs, Ravas and all. I can cite many
examples of such insensitive remarks from caste Hindu
Assamese leaders from last 100 years Assam political
history.
O Assamee! when will you learn and grow?
RB
- Original Message -
From: mc mahant
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: assam@assamnet.org
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 8:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with
Mainland India
Let us say Assam becomes sovereign. And the Bodos
of
Kokrajhar say no. The Bengali ghettos in Guwahati say
no. The Tiwas say no. The Cacharis say no. Will the
sovereign government of Assam hand over their lands to
those guys
Patently erroneeous assumptionS.
Even Delhi stopped this scary lines .
100%will agree to Sovereignty.
Nothing succeeds like success.
mm
-
From: Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Rajib Das [EMAIL PROTECTED], mayur bora
,Bartta[EMAIL PROTECTED],Bartta Bistar
[EMAIL PROTECTED], assam@assamnet.org
Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with
Mainland India
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 08:45:20 -0600
BLOCKQUOTE{padding-bottom:0px;padding-top:0px;}DL{padding-bottom:0px;padding-top:0px;}UL{padding-bottom:0px;padding-top:0px;}OL{padding-bottom:0px;padding-top:0px;}LI{padding-bottom:0px;padding-top:0px;}Rajib:
At 8:04 AM -0800 11/4/05, Rajib Das wrote:
But C-Da, it is indeed an argument - following exactly
the lines you worked along :-)
*** First, for a product of the 21st century
desi-knowledge brigade, you disappoint me every time
you parrot my line of arguments and even words and
phrases, particularly when you so vehemently disagree
with them. You ought to have learnt by now that it is
very unproductive to fight the 'enemy' on its terms
:-). It is a sure-fire recipe for no getting anywhere,
if not for losing. A friendly suggestion, not merely
for these debates, but for life in general, is that it
is very important for one to seek out creative
answers, seek new paths to solving problems. Your
generation, with the backgrounds like some you have
had, ought to be able to deliver far more than echoing
those that you obviously do not agree with. It is like
the Hinduttwa brigades' tack of trying to be bad
clones of Jehadistas or Talibans, without their zeal.
A patently lost cause!
Let us say Assam becomes sovereign. And the Bodos of
Kokrajhar say no. The Bengali ghettos in Guwahati say
no. The Tiwas say no. The Cacharis say no. Will the
sovereign government of Assam hand over their lands to
those guys?
*** Here are too many assumptions for the question
which forms your answer, to hold any water. Allow me
to explain:
First, you have assumed that the smaller indigenous
groups of Assam, including
Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India
Title: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India At 9:17 AM -0800 11/7/05, mayur bora wrote: I can't agree more with Rajen da's comment on the attitude of caste Hindu Assamese people towards the tribes of Assam. *** I join you there Mayur. But what does that have to do with Assam's sovereignty aspirations? BTW, caste Hindus' mistreatment of their fellow men was not limited to the indigenous people of Assam alone, but fell on their own brethren who did not quite cut it as their equals. Now take a wild guess on where these ideas came from, where they are still nurtured and is a major force in politics and governance? Did you hear about the Muslim village pillaged and several Muslims incinerated by mobs in UP, on the RUMOR that they slaughtered cows for celebrating ID, and turns out there was no truth to the rumors? And if I am not mistaken, you submit yourself to that very culture in an abject display of servitude, don't you? When I listed out the weaknesses of Assamese people sometime back on assamnet, this was the first weakness cited by me. *** This is not a 'weakness' of ALL the people of Assam. It is of only a certain segment. Also, such ill-treatment and discrimination is possible only by those who wield POWER, be it political,be it economic, be it religious. I would be very happy if Mahanta da-s (both CM and MM)can a provide any realistic and workable solution to dispel the legitimate feeling of mistrust among many of the tribal people towards caste Hindu Assamese. *** Why me or my brother? Why not YOU? Why not Rajen? But I have explained. If you don't agree, tell us why. If you could not understand, ask. I will be pleased to try and explain again. But to go about repeating your Mantra, without any explanation could paint an unflattering picture of your deliberative skills. *** Are you attempting to suggest here that because of this CULTURAL mistrust between the indigenous people and the caste Hindus, Assam has forfeited its sovereignty aspirations? Is that your best argument a trump card on your stand against Assam's sovereignty? If it is, you need to work on it much harder Mayur :-). Because the political fracture is not caused by cultural chauvinism of the Assamese, but purely because of (not) sharing of the spoils, even though the seeds of mistrust might have been planted in the past. In that it is the REIGNING political culture that is the real culprit, and it transcends caste/subcaste/religious boundaries with all having their fingers in the pot. Furthermore, this culturally based Assamese chauvinism is on its way out anyway from what I hear. Is it not true? But under the operative system there isn't a snowball's chance in hell that it will be eradicated or even ameliorated. When people don't have any specific solution at sight, they try to conjure up unattainable dreams and try hard to sell them on the ephemeral strength of jugglery of words or by promising some kind of panacea which is unrealistic and basically flawed. *** That surely is the judgement of a superior intellect, rendering his verdict. But can you explain: *** Why sovereignty aspirations are flawed? *** What are unattainable dreams, and should attainability be the first consideration or the only consideration of a dream? *** Who is attempting to peddle 'words' here, without any substance behind it? You or me? Not that I like to rub it in, but could you answer the questions I raised about YOUR words in my last post? By avoiding a response did you or did you not prove that your words were the 'fwpwla', hollow ones, not mine :-)? Sovereighnty is not the panacea as they try hard to make us believe. Sooner we understand this is better. *** First of all, no one is seeking a panacea, except perhaps those who believe that their servitude is the panacea that will deliver them into a bright new world with handouts from their Mai-Baap at Hastinapur :-). But be that as it may, why don't YOU tell us WHY and WHAT sovereignty will NOT deliver for Assam? When you do, you could claim a right to your conclusions and your august verdicts. Failing which it would be another round of 'potaan dhan', that might fool or delight those blind ducks, but few others. cm :-) When people don't have any specific solution at sight, they try to conjure up unattainable dreams and try hard to sell them on the ephemeral strength of jugglery of words or by promising some kind of panacea which is unrealistic and basically flawed. Sovereighnty is not the panacea as they try hard to make us believe. Sooner we understand this is better. Mayur --- mc mahant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - I would say these reflect the same caste Hindu Assamese insensitive attitude towards the other sub ethnic groups in Assam: we know better what they want. Exactly it is for this Assamese attitude for which Assamese lost not only the Nagas, Khasis and Khamtis but also are loosing the Bodos, Mishings
Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India
can a provide anyrealistic and workable solution to dispel thelegitimate feeling of mistrust among many of thetribal people towards caste Hindu Assamese. Legitimate feeling of mistrust Wrong assumption again. Dying of self pity? Go to the offensive and show that the enemy is from outside. Who is Caste Hindu. I am not. You are not. Who is ? Disown him . Without a Sovereign Assam you cannot even start creating a proud,hardworking,focussed modern nation. Come up with abetter model.Come out . Sensitive thinkers do not need repeated requests. mm [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: mayur bora [EMAIL PROTECTED], mc mahant [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]CC: assam@assamnet.org, [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland IndiaDate: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 13:11:15 -0600 At 9:17 AM -0800 11/7/05, mayur bora wrote: I can't agree more with Rajen da's comment on theattitude of caste Hindu Assamese people towards the tribes of Assam. *** I join you there Mayur. But what does that have to do with Assam's sovereignty aspirations? BTW, caste Hindus' mistreatment of their fellow men was not limited to the indigenous people of Assam alone, but fell on their own brethren who did not quite cut it as their equals. Now take a wild guess on where these ideas came from, where they are still nurtured and is a major force in politics and governance? Did you hear about the Muslim village pillaged and several Muslims incinerated by mobs in UP, on the RUMOR that they slaughtered cows for celebrating ID, and turns out there was no truth to the rumors? And if I am not mistaken, you submit yourself to that very culture in an abject display of servitude, don't you? When I listed out the weaknesses ofAssamese people sometime back on assamnet, this wasthe first weakness cited by me. *** This is not a 'weakness' of ALL the people of Assam. It is of only a certain segment. Also, such ill-treatment and discrimination is possible only by those who wield POWER, be it political,be it economic, be it religious. I would be very happyif Mahanta da-s (both CM and MM)can a provide anyrealistic and workable solution to dispel thelegitimate feeling of mistrust among many of thetribal people towards caste Hindu Assamese. *** Why me or my brother? Why not YOU? Why not Rajen? But I have explained. If you don't agree, tell us why. If you could not understand, ask. I will be pleased to try and explain again. But to go about repeating your Mantra, without any explanation could paint an unflattering picture of your deliberative skills. *** Are you attempting to suggest here that because of this CULTURAL mistrust between the indigenous people and the caste Hindus, Assam has forfeited its sovereignty aspirations? Is that your best argument a trump card on your stand against Assam's sovereignty? If it is, you need to work on it much harder Mayur :-). Because the political fracture is not caused by cultural chauvinism of the Assamese, but purely because of (not) sharing of the spoils, even though the seeds of mistrust might have been planted in the past. In that it is the REIGNING political culture that is the real culprit, and it transcends caste/subcaste/religious boundaries with all having their fingers in the pot. Furthermore, this culturally based Assamese chauvinism is on its way out anyway from what I hear. Is it not true? But under the operative system there isn't a snowball's chance in hell that it will be eradicated or even ameliorated. Whenpeople don't have any specific solution at sight, theytry to conjure up unattainable dreams and try hard tosell them on the ephemeral strength of jugglery ofwords or by promising some kind of panacea which is unrealistic and basically flawed. *** That surely is the judgement of a superior intellect, rendering his verdict. But can you explain: *** Why sovereignty aspirations are flawed? *** What are unattainable dreams, and should attainability be the first consideration or the only consideration of a dream? *** Who is attempting to peddle 'words' here, without any substance behind it? You or me? Not that I like to rub it in, but could you answer the questions I raised about YOUR words in my last post? By avoiding a response did you or did you not prove that your words were the 'fwpwla', hollow ones, not mine :-)? Sovereighnty is not the panacea as they try hard to make us believe. Sooner we understand this is better. *** First of all, no one is seeking a panacea, except perhaps those who believe that their servitude is the panacea that will deliver them into a bright new world with handouts from their Mai-Baap at Hastinapur :-). But be that as it may, why don't YOU tell us WHY and WHAT sovereignty will NOT deliver for Assam? When you do, you could claim a right to your conclusions and your august verdicts. Failing which it would be another round of 'potaan dhan', that might fool or delight those blind ducks, but few others.
Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India
Title: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India Rajib: At 10:53 AM -0800 11/5/05, Rajib Das wrote: C-da, The problem once again here is that you have not given one valid argument to say why it does not make sense when I use the same arguments you make to turn your points around. You wrote the following: Let us say Assam becomes sovereign. And the Bodos of Kokrajhar say no. The Bengali ghettos in Guwahati say no. The Tiwas say no. The Cacharis say no. Will the sovereign government of Assam hand over their lands to those guys? And especially in our parts of the country, if indeed you do handover Kokrajhar to Bodoland, what about the Assamese there who want to be a part of sovereign India? Or sovereign Assam for that matter? And you asserted that it follows my line of argument. I just picked up on that part without evaluating whether it really does. Turns out it does not.But even if it somehow did, my argument on the matter that even though there were/are many links - cultural, religious, trade and languages, with the surrounding regions, Assam NEVER was a subject of a pan-Indian state and that a restoration of the same should not be such a bad thing; is in no way, shape or form, rebutted or refuted by what you proffered. So your point is quite irrelevant. But I stand by my observation a that to echo my words and phrases and merely saying no to what I might be putting forth displays a lack of creative thinking abilities.Not that it bothers me. I could even be flattered, if one had to go by the proverb that 'imitation is the sincerest form of flattery :-)'. Luckily I don't have that need. It is just that I would like to see my fellow men to be creative in their outlooks. one pattern that has come back again and again is that the big brother is never a ALL POWERFUL monstrosity. That creative solutions almost always lie in using the monstrous big brother's own weight to turn against itself. *** That certainly is an amazing revelation for someone like myself. In my profession however we have to be able to build a better mousetrap, design a better, more creative solution to be able to get ahead. An ability merely for dissing or tearing down ( figuratively that is) somebody else's creation ( or proposition) does not do it. I would like to think that it is not unique to my profession, but an universal need. Obviously you make the points on specious grounds with very little thinking through. It is for that very reason that it can be turned around so easily. *** Aha! So how exactly did you turn my proposition around :-)? you assume that they (and I) are making assumptions about the unwillingness of Bodos and Tiwas and Bengalis and others to support the ULFA or a sovereign state. *** That is NOT what I said; not recently, not ever. My argument is that just because Utpal or Mayur or yourself make the assertions you do, they do not make make them universal truths about the disposition of these various groups. The only way we could ascertain it would be thru a referendum, after a period of free and unfettered public debate. Failing which one has no other recourse but to go by circumstantial evidence. One such is that ULFA could not possibly have survived all these years of fighting a far more powerful and resourceful adversary as the Indian military, its civilian propaganda machinery, its bribing abilities and the clandestine operations without a wide support base among the population. - when you say all these groups would support a sovereign Assam, YOU are making an ASSUMPTION. *** That is a preposterous suggestion. I never said or even implied that ALL in these groups support the idea of a sovereign Assam. Even during India's independence movement large segments of the intelligentsia opposed the idea tooth and nail, citing exactly some of the same reasons as you folks do in opposing Assam's sovereignty. My argument is that the reasons for which this opposition is present are possible to be reduced dramatically, if not entirely eradicable. And I gave my reasons earlier. You instead argue they are not addressable because of a lack of 'leaders', a patently ridiculous proposition. In fact I am appalled that you would even make the argument. It is an argument of the most politically and socially illiterate. The precise reason you have gone hoarse explaining why these groups want to break away is the fact that your reasoning holds little water and therefore precious few people of the opposite persuasion buy it. *** Heh-heh! So we have to accept YOUR assessment that these folks will not to go along with the idea of a sovereign Assam because it is born of cultural, hostility and the fears born out of it, and because you represent majority opinion of these groups. Now if you go make such an assertion in one of your high powered business meetings, what kind of a reception do you think you will get Rajib :-)? But let me humor you for a moment. Let me accept your assessment
Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India
Title: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India Don't you give a hoot about your own credibility in your dogged pursuit of attempting to paint that the people of Assam as inept, cowardly, lazy, corrupt and bumbling fools, who are incapable of doing anything right and thus are unfit to govern themselves? Hasn't that has been your single minded objective in these debates? So this is what you think of the Assamese? Or does it matter what you or I think? They are what they are. What do you think of the Indians? Or does it matter. They are what they are. RB - Original Message - From: Chan Mahanta To: Barua25 ; mc mahant ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: assam@assamnet.org Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 11:37 AM Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India Rajen: It is like as if you are saying, making two wrongs by AOI will make it right. I am saying that? I hope you are using that 'you' by mistake, while you really mean 'we', as in the royal we, meaning yourself. First wrong: People of Assam asked and got Assamese as the state language - and got. AOI Hobo Diok Policy: OK, now let us do a Second wrong: Don't implement the Assamese for Assam act (bapeke). Huh? So you excoriate the caste Hindus of Assam, rightfully for a change, on its mistreatment of their indigenous brethren from one end and then taunt them for not going rubbing their noses in the dirt by imposing Assamese as the state language? Isn't that the truth? What kind of propositions are these ? Don't you give a hoot about your own credibility in your dogged pursuit of attempting to paint that the people of Assam as inept, cowardly, lazy, corrupt and bumbling fools, who are incapable of doing anything right and thus are unfit to govern themselves? Hasn't that has been your single minded objective in these debates? It is time to give it a rest Rajen. You are doing yourself no favors. I am really sorry to see this playing out this way. *** But I will add something here for those who cite the example of alienating the indigenous people as a reason for Assam's unfitness for sovereignty, to mull: It was not ALL of Assam who did that. It was the ruling class and the establishment that was responsible. And a reformed and sovereign Assam is ALSO about changing that! c At 4:36 PM -0600 11/5/05, Barua25 wrote: *** But my question here is about another matter: About your TAUNTING of Assam Govts., past or present, for NOT enforcing Assamese as the State Language as in the following exchanges : --- Rajen: On one side Assamese are crying for linguistic and cultural protection.Assamese fought and won Assamese as the state language. All other states have implemented the language act.Bengali in Bengal etc.Now Assamese won't implement the 'Assamese in Assam'act, because, 'Who isGOI to tell Assam what to do? You fix my border first, other wise I won'timplement my language act'I say hobo diok It is like as if you are saying, making two wrongs by AOI will make it right. First wrong: People of Assam asked and got Assamese as the state language - and got. AOI Hobo Diok Policy: OK, now let us do a Second wrong: Don't implement the Assamese for Assam act (bapeke). The second wrong is not going to take away whatever the ill effects was done by the first. The alienation was already done not by the Assamese for Assam act, but by insensitive remarks constantly being made by political leaders throughout the century down to present time, including those of people like Chandan Mahanta and others in the net The alienation was done by the caste Hindu Assamese treating other sub ethnic groups as second class citizens and not by the Assamese for Assam act. You don't have to go far. Just look howthe AGP Govtfailed to make terms with the Bodo leaders during their rule. Here the polarization of the Bodos was done not by the GOI but bythe Assamese. That is why I say, Sovereignty will simply shift the head quarter of polarization from Delhi to Dispur with more hatred because this time it our own people. RB - Original Message - From: Chan Mahanta To: Barua25 ; mc mahant ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: assam@assamnet.org Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 10:59 AM Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India At 10:16 AM -0600 11/5/05, Barua25 wrote: Patently erroneeous assumptionS. Even Delhi stopped this scary lines . 100% will agree to Sovereignty. *** Here
Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India
Someone mentioned that those wanting a separate state for Assamese Language people was the reason too. Any details about the history -- to make it clear. Umeshmc mahant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Answer:Because Congress has been trying hard ever since 1947 to Divide and Rule and Easy-loot. QUESTIONWhy did Assam break up - into seven states in the first place? From:umesh sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To:assam@assamnet.orgSubject:Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland IndiaDate:Sat, 5 Nov 2005 16:47:18 + (GMT) It is a good point by Rajen-da. Why did Assam break up - into seven states in the first place? UmeshBarua25 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Patently erroneeous assumptionS. Even Delhi stopped this scary lines . 100% will agree to Sovereignty. *** Here are too many assumptions for the question which forms your answer, to hold any water. Allow me to explain: I would say these reflectthe same caste Hindu Assamese insensitiveattitude towards the other sub ethnic groups in Assam: "we know better what they want."Exactly it is for this Assamese attitude for which Assamese lost not only the Nagas, Khasis and Khamtis but also are loosing the Bodos, Mishings, Karbis, Tiwangs, Ravas and all. Ican cite many examples of such insensitive remarks from caste Hindu Assamese leaders from last100 years Assam political history. O Assamee! when will you learn and grow? RB - Original Message - From: mc mahant To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: assam@assamnet.org Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 8:56 AM Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India Let us say Assam becomes sovereign. And the Bodos ofKokrajhar say no. The Bengali ghettos in Guwahati sayno. The Tiwas say no. The Cacharis say no. Will thesovereign government of Assam hand over their lands tothose guys Patently erroneeous assumptionS. Even Delhi stopped this scary lines . 100%will agree to Sovereignty. Nothing succeeds like success. mm From: Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Rajib Das [EMAIL PROTECTED], mayur bora [EMAIL PROTECTED],Bartta Bistar [EMAIL PROTECTED], assam@assamnet.orgSubject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland IndiaDate: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 08:45:20 -0600 Rajib: At 8:04 AM -0800 11/4/05, Rajib Das wrote: But C-Da, it is indeed an argument - following exactlythe lines you worked along :-) *** First, for a product of the 21st century desi-knowledge brigade, you disappoint me every time you parrot my line of arguments and even words and phrases, particularly when you so vehemently disagree with them. You ought to have learnt by now that it is very unproductive to fight the 'enemy' on its terms :-). It is a sure-fire recipe for no getting anywhere, if not for losing. A friendly suggestion, not merely for these debates, but for life in general, is that it is very important for one to seek out creative answers, seek new paths to solving problems. Your generation, with the backgrounds like some you have had, ought to be able to deliver far more than echoing those that you obviously do not agree with. It is like the Hinduttwa brigades' tack of trying to be bad clones of Jehadistas or Talibans, without their zeal. A patently lost cause! Let us say Assam becomes sovereign. And the Bodos ofKokrajhar say no. The Bengali ghettos in Guwahati sayno. The Tiwas say no. The Cacharis say no. Will thesovereign government of Assam hand over their lands tothose guys? *** Here are too many assumptions for the question which forms your answer, to hold any water. Allow me to explain: First, you have assumed that the smaller indigenous groups of Assam, including the Bengali speaking ones who have lived in geographical Assam for generations will or most likely refuse to be a part of a sovereign Assam. But that assumption could be legitimate ONLY if you have explored WHY this situation has developed in recent decades--of each indigenous group seeking to carve out its own sovereign state, and concluded credibly that it could NOT resolved except, may only be kept under check by brutal Indian military might like Saddam Hussein or the erstwhile USSR or the PRofChina. But that is a false assumption. For someone like yourself with an IIM-MBA, I would have expected an analysis of the reasons why this condition has developed in the NE, and exploration of solutions there for. Not that the subject was never broached in this forum. I have gotten hoarse explaining some of the reasons. But those of you who do not accept them, and are endowed with analytical skills and outlooks, should be able to articulate your OWN assessments and lay out the reasons for it as you see them. Once you have done that, you could look into how to resolve the problem. I know the answers conceptually and am convinced that a sovereign Assam, and even a truly autonomous Assam with REAL powers to re-orient its governance can resolve th
Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India
I think that was incidental episode-after lives were already lost. Assamese language Chauvinism-never was there. And I would advise all concerned to learn/speak useful languages like Russian and Chinese. mm From:umesh sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To:mc mahant [EMAIL PROTECTED]CC:assam@assamnet.orgSubject:Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland IndiaDate:Sun, 6 Nov 2005 22:59:08 + (GMT) Someone mentioned that those wanting a separate state for Assamese Language people was the reason too. Any details about the history -- to make it clear. Umeshmc mahant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Answer:Because Congress has been trying hard ever since 1947 to Divide and Rule and Easy-loot. QUESTIONWhy did Assam break up - into seven states in the first place? From:umesh sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To:assam@assamnet.orgSubject:Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland IndiaDate:Sat, 5 Nov 2005 16:47:18 + (GMT) It is a good point by Rajen-da. Why did Assam break up - into seven states in the first place? UmeshBarua25 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Patently erroneeous assumptionS. Even Delhi stopped this scary lines . 100% will agree to Sovereignty. *** Here are too many assumptions for the question which forms your answer, to hold any water. Allow me to explain: I would say these reflectthe same caste Hindu Assamese insensitiveattitude towards the other sub ethnic groups in Assam: "we know better what they want."Exactly it is for this Assamese attitude for which Assamese lost not only the Nagas, Khasis and Khamtis but also are loosing the Bodos, Mishings, Karbis, Tiwangs, Ravas and all. Ican cite many examples of such insensitive remarks from caste Hindu Assamese leaders from last100 years Assam political history. O Assamee! when will you learn and grow? RB - Original Message - From: mc mahant To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: assam@assamnet.org Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 8:56 AM Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India Let us say Assam becomes sovereign. And the Bodos ofKokrajhar say no. The Bengali ghettos in Guwahati sayno. The Tiwas say no. The Cacharis say no. Will thesovereign government of Assam hand over their lands tothose guys Patently erroneeous assumptionS. Even Delhi stopped this scary lines . 100%will agree to Sovereignty. Nothing succeeds like success. mm From: Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Rajib Das [EMAIL PROTECTED], mayur bora [EMAIL PROTECTED],Bartta Bistar [EMAIL PROTECTED], assam@assamnet.orgSubject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland IndiaDate: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 08:45:20 -0600 Rajib: At 8:04 AM -0800 11/4/05, Rajib Das wrote: But C-Da, it is indeed an argument - following exactlythe lines you worked along :-) *** First, for a product of the 21st century desi-knowledge brigade, you disappoint me every time you parrot my line of arguments and even words and phrases, particularly when you so vehemently disagree with them. You ought to have learnt by now that it is very unproductive to fight the 'enemy' on its terms :-). It is a sure-fire recipe for no getting anywhere, if not for losing. A friendly suggestion, not merely for these debates, but for life in general, is that it is very important for one to seek out creative answers, seek new paths to solving problems. Your generation, with the backgrounds like some you have had, ought to be able to deliver far more than echoing those that you obviously do not agree with. It is like the Hinduttwa brigades' tack of trying to be bad clones of Jehadistas or Talibans, without their zeal. A patently lost cause! Let us say Assam becomes sovereign. And the Bodos ofKokrajhar say no. The Bengali ghettos in Guwahati sayno. The Tiwas say no. The Cacharis say no. Will thesovereign government of Assam hand over their lands tothose guys? *** Here are too many assumptions for the question which forms your answer, to hold any water. Allow me to explain: First, you have assumed that the smaller indigenous groups of Assam, including the Bengali speaking ones who have lived in geographical Assam for generations will or most likely refuse to be a part of a sovereign Assam. But that assumption could be legitimate ONLY if you have explored WHY this situation has developed in recent decades--of each indigenous group seeking to carve out its own sovereign state, and concluded credibly that it could NOT resolved except, may only be kept under check by brutal Indian military might like Saddam Hussein or the erstwhile USSR or the PRofChina. But that is a false assumption. For someone like yourself with an IIM-MBA, I would have expected an analysis of the reasons why this condition has developed in the NE, and exploration of
Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India
Let us say Assam becomes sovereign. And the Bodos ofKokrajhar say no. The Bengali ghettos in Guwahati sayno. The Tiwas say no. The Cacharis say no. Will thesovereign government of Assam hand over their lands tothose guys Patently erroneeous assumptionS. Even Delhi stopped this scary lines . 100%will agree to Sovereignty. Nothing succeeds like success. mm From: Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Rajib Das [EMAIL PROTECTED], mayur bora [EMAIL PROTECTED],Bartta Bistar [EMAIL PROTECTED], assam@assamnet.orgSubject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland IndiaDate: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 08:45:20 -0600 Rajib: At 8:04 AM -0800 11/4/05, Rajib Das wrote: But C-Da, it is indeed an argument - following exactlythe lines you worked along :-) *** First, for a product of the 21st century desi-knowledge brigade, you disappoint me every time you parrot my line of arguments and even words and phrases, particularly when you so vehemently disagree with them. You ought to have learnt by now that it is very unproductive to fight the 'enemy' on its terms :-). It is a sure-fire recipe for no getting anywhere, if not for losing. A friendly suggestion, not merely for these debates, but for life in general, is that it is very important for one to seek out creative answers, seek new paths to solving problems. Your generation, with the backgrounds like some you have had, ought to be able to deliver far more than echoing those that you obviously do not agree with. It is like the Hinduttwa brigades' tack of trying to be bad clones of Jehadistas or Talibans, without their zeal. A patently lost cause! Let us say Assam becomes sovereign. And the Bodos ofKokrajhar say no. The Bengali ghettos in Guwahati sayno. The Tiwas say no. The Cacharis say no. Will thesovereign government of Assam hand over their lands tothose guys? *** Here are too many assumptions for the question which forms your answer, to hold any water. Allow me to explain: First, you have assumed that the smaller indigenous groups of Assam, including the Bengali speaking ones who have lived in geographical Assam for generations will or most likely refuse to be a part of a sovereign Assam. But that assumption could be legitimate ONLY if you have explored WHY this situation has developed in recent decades--of each indigenous group seeking to carve out its own sovereign state, and concluded credibly that it could NOT resolved except, may only be kept under check by brutal Indian military might like Saddam Hussein or the erstwhile USSR or the PRofChina. But that is a false assumption. For someone like yourself with an IIM-MBA, I would have expected an analysis of the reasons why this condition has developed in the NE, and exploration of solutions there for. Not that the subject was never broached in this forum. I have gotten hoarse explaining some of the reasons. But those of you who do not accept them, and are endowed with analytical skills and outlooks, should be able to articulate your OWN assessments and lay out the reasons for it as you see them. Once you have done that, you could look into how to resolve the problem. I know the answers conceptually and am convinced that a sovereign Assam, and even a truly autonomous Assam with REAL powers to re-orient its governance can resolve these issues quite easily, because there is a historical precedent for it. These people lived side by side, in relative peace, interdependently, in for centuries. The above two combined, therefore, makes the analogy of Assam's disaffections as a part of India very different from the disaffections of the many indigenous people of the NE , which is a PRODUCT of the reigning Indian system of unaccountable, dysfunctional governance steeped in the politics of (not) sharing the spoils. I understand your and other ethnic Bengalis' fears and mistrusts of the Oxomiya chauvinists. But that has changed dramatically over the decades, even if not dead. But it will be the easiest thing to overcome, when the intelligentsia of the communities could join forces, backed by a functioning and trustworthy system of law-enforcement and justice of a reformed Assam government, considering the fact that the Assamese are the closest to the Bengalis in every describable ethnic/cultural traits among all the people of the South Asian sub-continent (with the exception of our indigenous Bodos, Karbis, Misings, Tiwas etc. who are historically more closely related kin.) So, put your thinking cap on and go at it. Don't try to throw my arguments at me, when you don't agree. That does not go anywhere :-). c-da And especially in our parts of thecountry, if indeed you do handover Kokrajhar toBodoland, what about the Assamese there who want to bea part of sovereign India? Or sovereign Assam for thatmatter?As to why Assam should be a part of sovereign India, Iwill address it in a separate e-mail! *** That is no argument. Assam is Assam and it's wishes are not subject to somebody else's choices, wishes or
Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India
Patently erroneeous assumptionS. Even Delhi stopped this scary lines . 100% will agree to Sovereignty. *** Here are too many assumptions for the question which forms your answer, to hold any water. Allow me to explain: I would say these reflectthe same caste Hindu Assamese insensitiveattitude towards the other sub ethnic groups in Assam: "we know better what they want."Exactly it is for this Assamese attitude for which Assamese lost not only the Nagas, Khasis and Khamtis but also are loosing the Bodos, Mishings, Karbis, Tiwangs, Ravas and all. Ican cite many examples of such insensitive remarks from caste Hindu Assamese leaders from last100 years Assam political history. O Assamee! when will you learn and grow? RB - Original Message - From: mc mahant To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: assam@assamnet.org Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 8:56 AM Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India Let us say Assam becomes sovereign. And the Bodos ofKokrajhar say no. The Bengali ghettos in Guwahati sayno. The Tiwas say no. The Cacharis say no. Will thesovereign government of Assam hand over their lands tothose guys Patently erroneeous assumptionS. Even Delhi stopped this scary lines . 100%will agree to Sovereignty. Nothing succeeds like success. mm From: Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Rajib Das [EMAIL PROTECTED], mayur bora [EMAIL PROTECTED],Bartta Bistar [EMAIL PROTECTED], assam@assamnet.orgSubject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland IndiaDate: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 08:45:20 -0600 Rajib: At 8:04 AM -0800 11/4/05, Rajib Das wrote: But C-Da, it is indeed an argument - following exactlythe lines you worked along :-) *** First, for a product of the 21st century desi-knowledge brigade, you disappoint me every time you parrot my line of arguments and even words and phrases, particularly when you so vehemently disagree with them. You ought to have learnt by now that it is very unproductive to fight the 'enemy' on its terms :-). It is a sure-fire recipe for no getting anywhere, if not for losing. A friendly suggestion, not merely for these debates, but for life in general, is that it is very important for one to seek out creative answers, seek new paths to solving problems. Your generation, with the backgrounds like some you have had, ought to be able to deliver far more than echoing those that you obviously do not agree with. It is like the Hinduttwa brigades' tack of trying to be bad clones of Jehadistas or Talibans, without their zeal. A patently lost cause! Let us say Assam becomes sovereign. And the Bodos ofKokrajhar say no. The Bengali ghettos in Guwahati sayno. The Tiwas say no. The Cacharis say no. Will thesovereign government of Assam hand over their lands tothose guys? *** Here are too many assumptions for the question which forms your answer, to hold any water. Allow me to explain: First, you have assumed that the smaller indigenous groups of Assam, including the Bengali speaking ones who have lived in geographical Assam for generations will or most likely refuse to be a part of a sovereign Assam. But that assumption could be legitimate ONLY if you have explored WHY this situation has developed in recent decades--of each indigenous group seeking to carve out its own sovereign state, and concluded credibly that it could NOT resolved except, may only be kept under check by brutal Indian military might like Saddam Hussein or the erstwhile USSR or the PRofChina. But that is a false assumption. For someone like yourself with an IIM-MBA, I would have expected an analysis of the reasons why this condition has developed in the NE, and exploration of solutions there for. Not that the subject was never broached in this forum. I have gotten hoarse explaining some of the reasons. But those of you who do not accept them, and are endowed with analytical skills and outlooks, should be able to articulate your OWN assessments and lay out the reasons for it as you see them. Once you have done that, you could look into how to resolve the problem. I know the answers conceptually and am convinced that a sovereign Assam, and even a truly autonomous Assam with REAL powers to re-orient its governance can resolve these issues quite easily, because there is a historical precedent for it. These people lived side by side, in relative peace, interdependently, in for centuries. The above two combined, therefore, makes the analogy of Assam's disaffections as a part of India very different from the disaffections of the many indigenous people
Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India
It is a good point by Rajen-da. Why did Assam break up - into seven states in the first place? UmeshBarua25 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Patently erroneeous assumptionS. Even Delhi stopped this scary lines . 100% will agree to Sovereignty. *** Here are too many assumptions for the question which forms your answer, to hold any water. Allow me to explain: I would say these reflectthe same caste Hindu Assamese insensitiveattitude towards the other sub ethnic groups in Assam: "we know better what they want."Exactly it is for this Assamese attitude for which Assamese lost not only the Nagas, Khasis and Khamtis but also are loosing the Bodos, Mishings, Karbis, Tiwangs, Ravas and all. Ican cite many examples of such insensitive remarks from caste Hindu Assamese leaders from last100 years Assam political history. O Assamee! when will you learn and grow? RB - Original Message - From: mc mahant To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: assam@assamnet.org Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 8:56 AM Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India Let us say Assam becomes sovereign. And the Bodos ofKokrajhar say no. The Bengali ghettos in Guwahati sayno. The Tiwas say no. The Cacharis say no. Will thesovereign government of Assam hand over their lands tothose guys Patently erroneeous assumptionS. Even Delhi stopped this scary lines . 100%will agree to Sovereignty. Nothing succeeds like success. mm From: Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Rajib Das [EMAIL PROTECTED], mayur bora [EMAIL PROTECTED],Bartta Bistar [EMAIL PROTECTED], assam@assamnet.orgSubject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland IndiaDate: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 08:45:20 -0600 Rajib: At 8:04 AM -0800 11/4/05, Rajib Das wrote: But C-Da, it is indeed an argument - following exactlythe lines you worked along :-) *** First, for a product of the 21st century desi-knowledge brigade, you disappoint me every time you parrot my line of arguments and even words and phrases, particularly when you so vehemently disagree with them. You ought to have learnt by now that it is very unproductive to fight the 'enemy' on its terms :-). It is a sure-fire recipe for no getting anywhere, if not for losing. A friendly suggestion, not merely for these debates, but for life in general, is that it is very important for one to seek out creative answers, seek new paths to solving problems. Your generation, with the backgrounds like some you have had, ought to be able to deliver far more than echoing those that you obviously do not agree with. It is like the Hinduttwa brigades' tack of trying to be bad clones of Jehadistas or Talibans, without their zeal. A patently lost cause! Let us say Assam becomes sovereign. And the Bodos ofKokrajhar say no. The Bengali ghettos in Guwahati sayno. The Tiwas say no. The Cacharis say no. Will thesovereign government of Assam hand over their lands tothose guys? *** Here are too many assumptions for the question which forms your answer, to hold any water. Allow me to explain: First, you have assumed that the smaller indigenous groups of Assam, including the Bengali speaking ones who have lived in geographical Assam for generations will or most likely refuse to be a part of a sovereign Assam. But that assumption could be legitimate ONLY if you have explored WHY this situation has developed in recent decades--of each indigenous group seeking to carve out its own sovereign state, and concluded credibly that it could NOT resolved except, may only be kept under check by brutal Indian military might like Saddam Hussein or the erstwhile USSR or the PRofChina. But that is a false assumption. For someone like yourself with an IIM-MBA, I would have expected an analysis of the reasons why this condition has developed in the NE, and exploration of solutions there for. Not that the subject was never broached in this forum. I have gotten hoarse explaining some of the reasons. But those of you who do not accept them, and are endowed with analytical skills and outlooks, should be able to articulate your OWN assessments and lay out the reasons for it as you see them. Once you have done that, you could look into how to resolve the problem. I know the answers conceptually and am convinced that a sovereign Assam, and even a truly autonomous Assam with REAL powers to re-orient its governance can resolve these issues quite easily, because there is a historical precedent for it. These people lived side by side, in relative peace, interdependently, in for centuries. The above two combined, therefore, makes the analogy of Assam's disaffections as a part of India very different from the disaffections of the many indigenous people of the NE , which is a PRODUCT of the reigning Indian system of unaccountable, dysfunctional governance steeped in the politics of (not) sharing the spoils. I understand your and other ethnic Bengalis' fears and mistrusts of the Oxomiya chauvinists. But that has changed dramati
Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India
Answer:Because Congress has been trying hard ever since 1947 to Divide and Rule and Easy-loot. QUESTIONWhy did Assam break up - into seven states in the first place? From:umesh sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To:assam@assamnet.orgSubject:Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland IndiaDate:Sat, 5 Nov 2005 16:47:18 + (GMT) It is a good point by Rajen-da. Why did Assam break up - into seven states in the first place? UmeshBarua25 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Patently erroneeous assumptionS. Even Delhi stopped this scary lines . 100% will agree to Sovereignty. *** Here are too many assumptions for the question which forms your answer, to hold any water. Allow me to explain: I would say these reflectthe same caste Hindu Assamese insensitiveattitude towards the other sub ethnic groups in Assam: "we know better what they want."Exactly it is for this Assamese attitude for which Assamese lost not only the Nagas, Khasis and Khamtis but also are loosing the Bodos, Mishings, Karbis, Tiwangs, Ravas and all. Ican cite many examples of such insensitive remarks from caste Hindu Assamese leaders from last100 years Assam political history. O Assamee! when will you learn and grow? RB - Original Message - From: mc mahant To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: assam@assamnet.org Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 8:56 AM Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India Let us say Assam becomes sovereign. And the Bodos ofKokrajhar say no. The Bengali ghettos in Guwahati sayno. The Tiwas say no. The Cacharis say no. Will thesovereign government of Assam hand over their lands tothose guys Patently erroneeous assumptionS. Even Delhi stopped this scary lines . 100%will agree to Sovereignty. Nothing succeeds like success. mm From: Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Rajib Das [EMAIL PROTECTED], mayur bora [EMAIL PROTECTED],Bartta Bistar [EMAIL PROTECTED], assam@assamnet.orgSubject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland IndiaDate: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 08:45:20 -0600 Rajib: At 8:04 AM -0800 11/4/05, Rajib Das wrote: But C-Da, it is indeed an argument - following exactlythe lines you worked along :-) *** First, for a product of the 21st century desi-knowledge brigade, you disappoint me every time you parrot my line of arguments and even words and phrases, particularly when you so vehemently disagree with them. You ought to have learnt by now that it is very unproductive to fight the 'enemy' on its terms :-). It is a sure-fire recipe for no getting anywhere, if not for losing. A friendly suggestion, not merely for these debates, but for life in general, is that it is very important for one to seek out creative answers, seek new paths to solving problems. Your generation, with the backgrounds like some you have had, ought to be able to deliver far more than echoing those that you obviously do not agree with. It is like the Hinduttwa brigades' tack of trying to be bad clones of Jehadistas or Talibans, without their zeal. A patently lost cause! Let us say Assam becomes sovereign. And the Bodos ofKokrajhar say no. The Bengali ghettos in Guwahati sayno. The Tiwas say no. The Cacharis say no. Will thesovereign government of Assam hand over their lands tothose guys? *** Here are too many assumptions for the question which forms your answer, to hold any water. Allow me to explain: First, you have assumed that the smaller indigenous groups of Assam, including the Bengali speaking ones who have lived in geographical Assam for generations will or most likely refuse to be a part of a sovereign Assam. But that assumption could be legitimate ONLY if you have explored WHY this situation has developed in recent decades--of each indigenous group seeking to carve out its own sovereign state, and concluded credibly that it could NOT resolved except, may only be kept under check by brutal Indian military might like Saddam Hussein or the erstwhile USSR or the PRofChina. But that is a false assumption. For someone like yourself with an IIM-MBA, I would have expected an analysis of the reasons why this condition has developed in the NE, and exploration of solutions there for. Not that the subject was never broached in this forum. I have gotten hoarse explaining some of the reasons. But those of you who do not accept them, and are endowed with analytical skills and outlooks, should be able to articulate your OWN assessments and lay out the reasons for it as you see them. Once you have done that, you could look into how to resolve the problem. I know the answers conceptually and am convinced that a sovereign Assam, and even a truly autonomous Assam with REAL powers to re-orient its governance can resolve these issues quite easily, because there is a historical precedent for it. These people lived side by side, in relative peace, interdependently, in for centuries. The above two combined, theref
Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India
I would say these reflectthe same caste Hindu Assamese insensitiveattitude towards the other sub ethnic groups in Assam: "we know better what they want."Exactly it is for this Assamese attitude for which Assamese lost not only the Nagas, Khasis and Khamtis but also are loosing the Bodos, Mishings, Karbis, Tiwangs, Ravas and all. Ican cite many examples of such insensitive remarks from caste Hindu Assamese leaders from last100 years Assam political history. Wrong at every thought. We will create Family Republics but they will have to print their own currency. mm mm From: "Barua25" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: "mc mahant" [EMAIL PROTECTED],[EMAIL PROTECTED],[EMAIL PROTECTED]CC: assam@assamnet.orgSubject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland IndiaDate: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 10:16:16 -0600 Patently erroneeous assumptionS. Even Delhi stopped this scary lines . 100% will agree to Sovereignty. *** Here are too many assumptions for the question which forms your answer, to hold any water. Allow me to explain: I would say these reflectthe same caste Hindu Assamese insensitiveattitude towards the other sub ethnic groups in Assam: "we know better what they want."Exactly it is for this Assamese attitude for which Assamese lost not only the Nagas, Khasis and Khamtis but also are loosing the Bodos, Mishings, Karbis, Tiwangs, Ravas and all. Ican cite many examples of such insensitive remarks from caste Hindu Assamese leaders from last100 years Assam political history. O Assamee! when will you learn and grow? RB - Original Message - From: mc mahant To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: assam@assamnet.org Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 8:56 AM Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India Let us say Assam becomes sovereign. And the Bodos ofKokrajhar say no. The Bengali ghettos in Guwahati sayno. The Tiwas say no. The Cacharis say no. Will thesovereign government of Assam hand over their lands tothose guys Patently erroneeous assumptionS. Even Delhi stopped this scary lines . 100%will agree to Sovereignty. Nothing succeeds like success. mm From: Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Rajib Das [EMAIL PROTECTED], mayur bora [EMAIL PROTECTED],Bartta Bistar [EMAIL PROTECTED], assam@assamnet.orgSubject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland IndiaDate: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 08:45:20 -0600 Rajib: At 8:04 AM -0800 11/4/05, Rajib Das wrote: But C-Da, it is indeed an argument - following exactlythe lines you worked along :-) *** First, for a product of the 21st century desi-knowledge brigade, you disappoint me every time you parrot my line of arguments and even words and phrases, particularly when you so vehemently disagree with them. You ought to have learnt by now that it is very unproductive to fight the 'enemy' on its terms :-). It is a sure-fire recipe for no getting anywhere, if not for losing. A friendly suggestion, not merely for these debates, but for life in general, is that it is very important for one to seek out creative answers, seek new paths to solving problems. Your generation, with the backgrounds like some you have had, ought to be able to deliver far more than echoing those that you obviously do not agree with. It is like the Hinduttwa brigades' tack of trying to be bad clones of Jehadistas or Talibans, without their zeal. A patently lost cause! Let us say Assam becomes sovereign. And the Bodos ofKokrajhar say no. The Bengali ghettos in Guwahati sayno. The Tiwas say no. The Cacharis say no. Will thesovereign government of Assam hand over their lands tothose guys? *** Here are too many assumptions for the question which forms your answer, to hold any water. Allow me to explain: First, you have assumed that the smaller indigenous groups of Assam, including the Bengali speaking ones who have lived in geographical Assam for generations will or most likely refuse to be a part of a sovereign Assam. But that assumption could be legitimate ONLY if you have explored WHY this situation has developed in recent decades--of each indigenous group seeking to carve out its own sovereign state, and concluded credibly that it could NOT resolved except, may only be kept under check by brutal Indian military might like Saddam Hussein or the erstwhile USSR or the PRofChina. But that is a false assumption. For someone like yourself with an IIM-MBA, I would have expected an analysis of the reasons why this condition has developed in the NE, and exploration of solutions there for. Not that the subject was never broached in this forum. I have gotten hoarse explaining some of the reasons. But those of you who do not accept them, and are endowed with analytical skills and outlooks, should be able to articulate your OWN assessments and lay out the reasons for it as you see them. Once you have done that, you could look into how to resolve the problem. I know the answers conceptually and am convinced that a sovereign Assam, and even a truly
Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India
Wrong at every thought. We will create Family Republics but they will have to print their own currency. mm mm in the new assam one won't be allowed to keep personal property but then everyonewill have to print their own currenciesthat's quite an incentiveeh??...please send us netters the details on how u expect the system to work.(one nation 'assam' and a thousand different currencies)...one of us might evensend your name as the nomination for next year's Nobel for economics on a serious note the idea is real patheticwhere do you live??? some another galaxy withsomedifferent theories of economics??? man assam, it seems, is heading for some real trouble. honestly, i used to get hyper, initially, with the kind of responses u guys come out with every now and thenbut the mood's changing now..it now really amuses me to no end. and yeah i fell off my chair laughing the other day and so did my friends who were 'fortunate' enough to go thro' ur ideas and comments on 'new assam'. go take a hike man! tridip mc mahant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would say these reflectthe same caste Hindu Assamese insensitiveattitude towards the other sub ethnic groups in Assam: "we know better what they want."Exactly it is for this Assamese attitude for which Assamese lost not only the Nagas, Khasis and Khamtis but also are loosing the Bodos, Mishings, Karbis, Tiwangs, Ravas and all. Ican cite many examples of such insensitive remarks from caste Hindu Assamese leaders from last100 years Assam political history. Wrong at every thought. We will create Family Republics but they will have to print their own currency. mm mm From: "Barua25" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: "mc mahant" [EMAIL PROTECTED],[EMAIL PROTECTED],[EMAIL PROTECTED]CC: assam@assamnet.orgSubject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland IndiaDate: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 10:16:16 -0600 Patently erroneeous assumptionS. Even Delhi stopped this scary lines . 100% will agree to Sovereignty. *** Here are too many assumptions for the question which forms your answer, to hold any water. Allow me to explain: I would say these reflectthe same caste Hindu Assamese insensitiveattitude towards the other sub ethnic groups in Assam: "we know better what they want."Exactly it is for this Assamese attitude for which Assamese lost not only the Nagas, Khasis and Khamtis but also are loosing the Bodos, Mishings, Karbis, Tiwangs, Ravas and all. Ican cite many examples of such insensitive remarks from caste Hindu Assamese leaders from last100 years Assam political history. O Assamee! when will you learn and grow? RB - Original Message - From: mc mahant To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: assam@assamnet.org Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 8:56 AM Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India Let us say Assam becomes sovereign. And the Bodos ofKokrajhar say no. The Bengali ghettos in Guwahati sayno. The Tiwas say no. The Cacharis say no. Will thesovereign government of Assam hand over their lands tothose guys Patently erroneeous assumptionS. Even Delhi stopped this scary lines . 100%will agree to Sovereignty. Nothing succeeds like success. mm From: Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Rajib Das [EMAIL PROTECTED], mayur bora [EMAIL PROTECTED],Bartta Bistar [EMAIL PROTECTED], assam@assamnet.orgSubject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland IndiaDate: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 08:45:20 -0600 Rajib: At 8:04 AM -0800 11/4/05, Rajib Das wrote: But C-Da, it is indeed an argument - following exactlythe lines you worked along :-) *** First, for a product of the 21st century desi-knowledge brigade, you disappoint me every time you parrot my line of arguments and even words and phrases, particularly when you so vehemently disagree with them. You ought to have learnt by now that it is very unproductive to fight the 'enemy' on its terms :-). It is a sure-fire recipe for no getting anywhere, if not for losing. A friendly suggestion, not merely for these debates, but for life in general, is that it is very important for one to seek out creative answers, seek new paths to solving problems. Your generation, with the backgrounds like some you have had, ought to be able to deliver far more than echoing those that you obviously do not agree with. It is like the Hinduttwa brigades' tack of trying to be bad clones of Jehadistas or Talibans, without their zeal. A patently lost cause! Let us say Assam becomes sovereign. And the Bodos ofKokrajhar say no. The Bengali ghettos in Guwahati sayno. The Tiwas say no. The Cacharis say no. Will thesovereign government of Assam hand over their lands tothose guys? *** Here are too many assumptions for the question which forms your answer, to hold any water. Allow me to explain: First, you have assumed that the smaller indigenous groups of Assam, including the Bengali speaking ones who have lived in geographical Assam fo
Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India
Title: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India Hi Mayur: You are so kind. But you know what? You are even better with words. I had to look up 'felicity' for example. Hereby I welcome you to the Mutual Admiration Society of Assam Net. The past inductee was Kamal Deka, but he is on a sabbatical ( I hope) for now. Its already getting to be a crowd. Unfortunately it is NOT about words. I will readily admit that words make a piece interesting, add zest, spice things up. And I try to do my share to add a little color to the proceedings. If it is all business, it will become too boring too soon. But if there is no meat in the dish, no amount of garam-masala would rescue it. Now about your choice of adjectives: *** 'Excessive analytical bent--' What does it mean? What is excessive, what is normal and what is sub-par? Obviously you don't appreciate the degree of my analytical bent. You find it excessive. Would it be too much to ask for an example or two of my excesses, and suggestions on how those could have been toned down to a NORMAL level of analysis? I ask, because I have no way of telling. And I hope you will help. For if you don't it would be like, how to put it nicely now, -- how about 'potaan-dhan'( a grain of rice without the kernel)? I would like to note here that our desi-education and culture does not promote critical and analytical thinking. In fact the schools and colleges, even the high-faluting ones like the IITs, decidedly FROWNed ( in my days anyway) upon students' questioning what is handed down to them as Gospel. Luckily they learn to overcome them when they leave for the west, some of them at least. I know of those who never manage to shed it, not realizing what afflicts them. What will happen if we replace the word Assam with India ? *** Depends upon the beholder. Should Indians be proud to live in the cave, it is their choice. But what does that have to do with what Assam wants? Why should Assam's aspirations be judged by what Bihar might want or what Gujarat might want or what Andhra might want? If they are comfortable with India's style of dysfunctional, remotely controlled, centralized governance, all power to them. Their circumstances are different. Their history is different. Their culture is different. But why should Assam be equated with them? You are extremely ingenious in drawing analogies to support your viewpoint. *** Going by your excessive emphasis on my ingenuity, I am not sure if it is a compliment or a criticism like my 'excessive' analytical bent; but regardless, it is the least I could do. Because if I don't, I would be like those who just render drive-by opinions and expect them to be accepted by others because they say so. My approach is out of respect for the intelligence of others in this forum. Without it I could not have built my only asset, my credibility. I may not agree with others' views, but I never discount their intelligence, either by rendering pompous verdicts or by making disingenuous arguments. But some netters will definitely find it disingenuous ( which you find repulsive and abominable in other people's writing). *** That is their choice, their prerogative. Moi xurujor mukhot xwpa diboloi kwn ( Who am I to tell the sun not to shine?). But the real test is in the substance and credibility of their arguments, their opinions. cm :-) At 11:38 PM -0800 11/3/05, mayur bora wrote: Dear Mahanta da Your superb command over the language, felicity with the words and excessively analytical bent of mind have tempted me to take a leaf from your post to Rajib and pose a question to you. I hope you would not desist from caring to reply to my query. Assam is Assam and it's wishes are not subject to somebody else's choices, wishes or demands) What will happen if we replace the word Assam with India ? You are extremely ingenious in drawing analogies to support your viewpoint. But some netters will definitely find it disingenuous ( which you find repulsive and abominable in other people's writing). Mayur Chandigarh --- Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The basis of modern Indian nationhood from most claims is the common cultural links across all the regions of the country. *** But that ought to be VOLUNTARY, not out of a lust for land, held together with brute military force. Going by this logic of who ruled whom, the Nagas should not have a country *** That is no argument. Assam is Assam and it's wishes are not subject to somebody else's choices, wishes or demands. But let me ask you, one of the most avid advocates of India, WHY it is good for India to hold onto Assam, or how it is good for Assam to continue to submit to Indian rule? At 8:01 AM -0800 11/3/05, Rajib Das wrote: There was never one India ruler that had ALL of India under his belt. The Cholas were never ruled from Pataliputra as well. And Assam as it is known today was not ruled for ever from Pragjyotishpur
Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India
But C-Da, it is indeed an argument - following exactly the lines you worked along :-) Let us say Assam becomes sovereign. And the Bodos of Kokrajhar say no. The Bengali ghettos in Guwahati say no. The Tiwas say no. The Cacharis say no. Will the sovereign government of Assam hand over their lands to those guys? And especially in our parts of the country, if indeed you do handover Kokrajhar to Bodoland, what about the Assamese there who want to be a part of sovereign India? Or sovereign Assam for that matter? As to why Assam should be a part of sovereign India, I will address it in a separate e-mail! *** That is no argument. Assam is Assam and it's wishes are not subject to somebody else's choices, wishes or demands. But let me ask you, one of the most avid advocates of India, WHY it is good for India to hold onto Assam, or how it is good for Assam to continue to submit to Indian rule? At 8:01 AM -0800 11/3/05, Rajib Das wrote: There was never one India ruler that had ALL of India under his belt. The Cholas were never ruled from Pataliputra as well. And Assam as it is known today was not ruled for ever from Pragjyotishpur. The basis of modern Indian nationhood from most claims is the common cultural links across all the regions of the country. Actually that is how most modern nations (including those of Europe) came about. Going by this logic of who ruled whom, the Nagas should not have a country (or for that matter a state even) - their territories were, for the most part, variously ruled by the Meitis and the Burmese. And I am sure more than half the tribes of the north east did not have a king in their name. --- Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In an antithesis to the rebels claim that Assam had never shared a common culture and history with India before the Yandaboo Treaty, Mamoni pointed out that the Ramayana had always influenced Assamese culture and society. An acclaimed authority on the epic, she said Madhav Kandali, a 14th century Assamese poet, was the first to re-tell the Ramayana in a modern Indo-Aryan language. Yet, though she underscored Assams inseparable cultural link with mainland India, she skirted a question on Ulfas demand for a sovereign Assam for obvious reasons. Please dont mix the two, she said. *** There is a very simple explanation here that many people tend to miss: In spite of all the cultural and religious links with India, Assam never was a subject of Indian rulers. That is how it ought to be. Keep the cultural links, the religious links and the trade links. They cannot be wiped out by an artificial line on the ground. It is not like all of a sudden Assam will become a vassal state of China, or Myanmar, or B-Desh. But why force Indian rule on Assam? Let both flourish, side by side, in friendship and mutual co-operation, like the two did over millenia, for the greater good of all. cm At 7:42 AM + 11/3/05, Bartta Bistar wrote: Guwahati, Thursday, November 3, 2005 Epics linked Assam with India culturally http://www.assamtribune.com/ 3 November 2005 By A Staff Reporter GUWAHATI, Nov 2 The Ramayana and the Mahabharata the two Indian epics have linked Assam with the rest of India culturally in an inseparable manner. Assam has a vibrant cultural tradition that speaks of its cultural link with the mainland. Its cultural relation with the mainland is very strong and old. There were some smaller paths across the Himalayas, which served as the channels for surface communication among the scholars of the State and from other parts of India so far as maintaining mutual relations was concerned. These were the observations made by noted litterateur Dr Mamoni Raisom (Indira) Goswami, who has now been acting as a mediator between === message truncated === __ Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
[Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India
Title: Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India In an antithesis to the rebels claim that Assam had never shared a common culture and history with India before the Yandaboo Treaty, Mamoni pointed out that the Ramayana had always influenced Assamese culture and society. An acclaimed authority on the epic, she said Madhav Kandali, a 14th century Assamese poet, was the first to re-tell the Ramayana in a modern Indo-Aryan language. Yet, though she underscored Assams inseparable cultural link with mainland India, she skirted a question on Ulfas demand for a sovereign Assam for obvious reasons. Please dont mix the two, she said. *** There is a very simple explanation here that many people tend to miss: In spite of all the cultural and religious links with India, Assam never was a subject of Indian rulers. That is how it ought to be. Keep the cultural links, the religious links and the trade links. They cannot be wiped out by an artificial line on the ground. It is not like all of a sudden Assam will become a vassal state of China, or Myanmar, or B-Desh. But why force Indian rule on Assam? Let both flourish, side by side, in friendship and mutual co-operation, like the two did over millenia, for the greater good of all. cm At 7:42 AM + 11/3/05, Bartta Bistar wrote: Guwahati, Thursday, November 3, 2005 Epics linked Assam with India culturally http://www.assamtribune.com/ 3 November 2005 By A Staff Reporter GUWAHATI, Nov 2 The Ramayana and the Mahabharata the two Indian epics have linked Assam with the rest of India culturally in an inseparable manner. Assam has a vibrant cultural tradition that speaks of its cultural link with the mainland. Its cultural relation with the mainland is very strong and old. There were some smaller paths across the Himalayas, which served as the channels for surface communication among the scholars of the State and from other parts of India so far as maintaining mutual relations was concerned. These were the observations made by noted litterateur Dr Mamoni Raisom (Indira) Goswami, who has now been acting as a mediator between the Union Government the militant outfit United Liberation Front of Asom (ULFA). She was replying to a question whether to her the Ramayana tradition of the State was an anti-thesis to the present clamour of some circles that Assam was not linked with the rest of India culturally in the past. Dr Goswami was addressing a press conference at the Circuit House here this afternoon in connection with the four-day Second International Ramayana Conference organised by the Asom Kalatirtha in collaboration with the Srimanta Sankaradeva Kalakshetra being held in the city from tomorrow. Dr Goswami also maintained that the ULFA Commander-in-Chief (C-in-C) Paresh Barua, whom she described as very well-read person, had been making contacts with her every now and then and on one occasion she had raised the issue of the August 15, 2004 Blast at Dhemaji, in which 13 persons, including ten children and three women were killed. When this issue was raised, Barua was silent for some time and then he denied involvement of the ULFA in the incident and named some people responsible for the incident. But, Dr Goswami refrained from disclosing the names of the people named by Barua in conncetion with the Dhemaji tragedy. The newspersons told Dr Goswami that the militant outfit had been denying its involvement and blaming the police for all such misdeeds, which affect the common people instead of the security forces. They cited the example of Russian mine expert Sergei Gretchenko, Sanjoy Ghosh, the Sivasagar and the Boko blasts, in which the ULFA had been denying its involvement even as its involvement in all those cases was established later on. It is also pertinent to mention here that even ULFA chairman Arabinda Rajkhowa had admitted in a covert manner the involvement of his outfit in the Dhemaji blast. Dr Goswami said that she had great reservation over the cases of encounter deaths taking place in the State. Encounter deaths have become monsters. People have a right to know from the security forces about the genuineness of their encounters taking place with the members of the militant outfits. I told Birappa Moily, a senior Congress leader and a family friend from Karnataka to convey my anguish over the issue to Congress president Sonia Gandhi and to ask her stop the encounter killings immediately, she said. She also minatianed that she was not competent enough to talk on the probability of a ceasefire between the Central Government and ULFA. I may ask both the sides to go for ceasefire, she said. Elaborating the Ramayana tradition of the State, Dr Goswami said that some inscriptions of the State had mentioned Rama even in the seventh century AD. The first ever Ramayana in the modern Indo-Aryan languages was written in Assamese in the fourteenth century AD by Madhava Kandali. It has also the Katha Ramayana. Besides, the great
Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India
The basis of modern Indian nationhood from most claims is the common cultural links across all the regions of the country. *** But that ought to be VOLUNTARY, not out of a lust for land, held together with brute military force. Going by this logic of who ruled whom, the Nagas should not have a country *** That is no argument. Assam is Assam and it's wishes are not subject to somebody else's choices, wishes or demands. But let me ask you, one of the most avid advocates of India, WHY it is good for India to hold onto Assam, or how it is good for Assam to continue to submit to Indian rule? At 8:01 AM -0800 11/3/05, Rajib Das wrote: There was never one India ruler that had ALL of India under his belt. The Cholas were never ruled from Pataliputra as well. And Assam as it is known today was not ruled for ever from Pragjyotishpur. The basis of modern Indian nationhood from most claims is the common cultural links across all the regions of the country. Actually that is how most modern nations (including those of Europe) came about. Going by this logic of who ruled whom, the Nagas should not have a country (or for that matter a state even) - their territories were, for the most part, variously ruled by the Meitis and the Burmese. And I am sure more than half the tribes of the north east did not have a king in their name. --- Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In an antithesis to the rebels claim that Assam had never shared a common culture and history with India before the Yandaboo Treaty, Mamoni pointed out that the Ramayana had always influenced Assamese culture and society. An acclaimed authority on the epic, she said Madhav Kandali, a 14th century Assamese poet, was the first to re-tell the Ramayana in a modern Indo-Aryan language. Yet, though she underscored Assams inseparable cultural link with mainland India, she skirted a question on Ulfas demand for a sovereign Assam for obvious reasons. Please dont mix the two, she said. *** There is a very simple explanation here that many people tend to miss: In spite of all the cultural and religious links with India, Assam never was a subject of Indian rulers. That is how it ought to be. Keep the cultural links, the religious links and the trade links. They cannot be wiped out by an artificial line on the ground. It is not like all of a sudden Assam will become a vassal state of China, or Myanmar, or B-Desh. But why force Indian rule on Assam? Let both flourish, side by side, in friendship and mutual co-operation, like the two did over millenia, for the greater good of all. cm At 7:42 AM + 11/3/05, Bartta Bistar wrote: Guwahati, Thursday, November 3, 2005 Epics linked Assam with India culturally http://www.assamtribune.com/ 3 November 2005 By A Staff Reporter GUWAHATI, Nov 2 The Ramayana and the Mahabharata the two Indian epics have linked Assam with the rest of India culturally in an inseparable manner. Assam has a vibrant cultural tradition that speaks of its cultural link with the mainland. Its cultural relation with the mainland is very strong and old. There were some smaller paths across the Himalayas, which served as the channels for surface communication among the scholars of the State and from other parts of India so far as maintaining mutual relations was concerned. These were the observations made by noted litterateur Dr Mamoni Raisom (Indira) Goswami, who has now been acting as a mediator between the Union Government the militant outfit United Liberation Front of Asom (ULFA). She was replying to a question whether to her the Ramayana tradition of the State was an anti-thesis to the present clamour of some circles that Assam was not linked with the rest of India culturally in the past. Dr Goswami was addressing a press conference at the Circuit House here this afternoon in connection with the four-day Second International Ramayana Conference organised by the Asom Kalatirtha in collaboration with the Srimanta Sankaradeva Kalakshetra being held in the city from tomorrow. Dr Goswami also maintained that the ULFA Commander-in-Chief (C-in-C) Paresh Barua, whom she described as very well-read person, had been making contacts with her every now and then and on one occasion she had raised the issue of the August 15, 2004 Blast at Dhemaji, in which 13 persons, including ten children and three women were killed. When this issue was raised, Barua was silent for some time and then he denied involvement of the ULFA in the incident and named some people responsible for the incident. But, Dr Goswami refrained from disclosing the names of the people named by Barua in conncetion with the Dhemaji tragedy. The newspersons told Dr Goswami that the militant outfit had been denying its involvement and blaming the police for
