Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific Hi sebbyYou have hit it on the head.Several issues are in there underlying.Firstly brad, if you are happy where you are thats fine I guess.I do eventually want a girlfriend and a nice house but not fancy.Right now at this moment as far as things go, I am happy enough.Sebby, there are several things extra the sighted probably dont have to contend with or at least not as much as us.Firstly, there is the technology.Most businesses traditionally get jaws but thats probably going to change especially with windoweyes and nvda free versions around especially with the gw and ms partnerships.Ok the first thing is seeking.I think thats for everyone especially after the echonomic situation.In fact its only in recent years that its got a little better for sertain jobs some of that is helped by the earthquake that happened 2 years back in this countrys south island.For us, as blind though there is t he tech side as I said.Due to us being blind a few liberties need to be excersised.Jaws nvda or whatever we use, our braille and other hardware programs, etc need unfetted access to the network.That means no virus checkers, no firewalls nothing.They need to be allowed to rome and control every system they interact with so that we can do our jobs.In this age of security thats a bit of a problem, and companies dont usually like for people to bring their own tech and interface it for obvious reasons.2. prices.While funding can be previded for jaws and other tech, there is still an ongoing cost for companies, now some of the bigger companies may not have trouble.My brother needs dragon naturally speaking and the ability to connect several mice, touchpads and the like to the systems he uses in his job because of his rsi, the company let him do it but they are a large company and can probably afford it.Smaller ones ma y not be as fortunate.The second thing is work flow, people go quite fast, us blind are quite slow it cant be helped, we need to refur to braille, our technology, etc and thats never going to be as fast as the sighted, we cant skim or at least I dont think we can that fast or as quick as the sighted I cant myself I tried once and the info I got back was zilch.3. mobility and training, at least for traditional jobs we will need a lot of help initially getting round till we have a rout even if we for example have a dog, and thats another point.The dog will have to come inside with us and for some companies its another comidation that they may have to get dumped on them.The worst of these though is that while quite a lot of companies use stuff like office etc, a lot of them do have customised applications such as some call centers and others.And that doesnt take into account stuff that is not accessable.<br / >So scripts need to be written, probably for jaws or whatever at any rate it costs and the company will have to pay the cost, some of these apps are in house which means more special applications need to be written for the blind.Now along comes online work.No office, so no mobility needed really.2. no network issues because you dont need physical access to a network to plug your stuff.3. no custom apps well thats probably not true but I have not come across a job that uses custom apps outside its business yet well so far there may be.True you get no social life what so ever but still.And you probably would still have the accessability concerns to, not to mention that your remote server the company had would have to be able to pipe audio back to the user unless ofcause you got everything running locally and then just did company email with another client or device I guess.I am not sure how things have gone but I know a lot of companies use ms link or similar and that may be accessable.there is a Skype business program to.Fortunately to there are more choices round than when I started looking for a job 10 years ago and stopped actively looking 5 years ago.Things like tablets both apple and android didnt exist, and it was jaws or nothing maybe thats partly true now, nvda is recognised at least in the smaller companies I have worked in from time to time.Jaws is still the standard of access for moth things but nvda if it works can be used if the user cares to do so.Even friends I have that have been dealers of such readers recognise and use nvda on the sly at times.So its changing.Ofcause the security round hooking in your usb device to a computer will still be an issue for some, especially with security though it is now impossible to run automatically a virus via autorun since ms disabled the floor.Getting away from ms, and tablets th ough Id imagine that any Linux based jobs would not present to much of a barrior to us as such.But to end this sebby, getting a job is hard.On the subject of assessments, I am not sure about your agency you are getting this from but if you say you are going to or are currently looking for work they should in
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific Hi.crashmaster.If you wanted to use Xl, I believe theres a JAWS working with XL spread sheats or something. I think its a dasy book.Although its been years since Ive used JAWS.As for NVDA, I use it, and tried to get my local college involved and we are working towards showing people how to use it. So I might have a job of sorts after all. The thing is when it comes to jobs, Ive been told as you said, all we can do is IT and while I use computers every day and think theyre awesome. Id not want to do a job that would just have me sitting at a desk. I prefer to either be out ddors or doing something more hands on. If that makes sense. Thats hwy Im going to do this pottery class. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194929#p194929 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific Lol, its amuzing that the page for the jaws 16 beta: death of screen reader innovation illustrated thread on this forum is number 8 on google when doing a search for jaws 16.I wonder if anyone in freedomscientific will see this as a wake up call... URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194772#p194772 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific I think its the seeking part of job seeking thats so insanely hard, though. You can have a CV but you cant just Get out there. Not to say that sighted people instantly find their dream job either, of course, but making yourself useful as a blind person even when you really, really want to contribute is just unreasonably difficult. On this dank little island, they do offer support, but it usually ends up with just being given a vocation and told Take this job or else, which is a pretty sure way to go nowhere quickly and end up with squat. Heck, I dont even mind starting slow, as long as Im not stuck on the bottom rung for good. Like I said, theyre just not interested in solving the underlying problem, which is identifying employers who will even think about taking us on. I suspect this isnt helped by the fact that job experience is always such an important precondition, and this by definition is very hard to have had before you file your first application, and of course the actual difficulties of gaining the skills above and beyond hobbyist enthusiasm.Im not looking forward to my assessment in a fortnight, but Ill try to be both honest and positive … URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194780#p194780 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
2014-11-14
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : Trenton Goldshark via Audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific If not adding the word beta after the words jaws 16 within a Google Search, that Death Of Screen Reader thead is Number 9 in the Results.Thats saying something, if we are still in the top 10 where Google is concerned. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194789#p194789 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific what fs will say if they see this? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194793#p194793 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific Hi.let me first start off by saying Im happy and thats all that matters to me.I dont care what others think. Im happy and thats good enough.Now lets take Crashmasters post apart.Man, I dont know weather to be pissed at you or just laugh.I was quite angry with your post yesterday in fact I was about to flame your face into the ground, but my net died when I was sending the post so you never got it.You were going to flame me? Witch is to say, write insulting things towards my post and me,rite? Forgetting for the moment that you dont even know me, what exactly would that have achieved, Crashmaster?I understand finding a job is tricky, I tried, went through coledge we call it university here, to a point I couldnt go on due to visual subjects and such.I didnt have it smooth sailing, I had trouble with high turn over in agencies for the disabled in general, raw deals with equipment and issues on actually getting people to get things done.Which was why I left in the end.Even the blind org did not help job seeking sites and other things.Firstly why does it matter what the sighted think.In fact there are more that know me than I know and I never associated myself socially with normals at all in university that much.Also, I sometimes find it distracting at times when more know me than I know.Shouldnt there be a question mark there? Oh Oops, I wouldnt know would I? being a stupid blind personWhy does it matter? Maybe because I wanted to try to make some friends? Maybe, cause, oh I dont know. I might have held out hope that they might, just might, have came up to me and said Hi.But they wont. you kneed to go up to them, and Im realizing this slowly. OH sure I dont care what people think but it would be nice to have some more friends, ya no?2. I do sympathise with you half way.If I had not spent the cash on my life skills program I wouldnt have got the scholarship and I would be in the same position you are in but much faster.What? happy?Now, I am assuming that you are just starting out, I think mid 20s or something.Im 21...I hope not more than 30.The style you write in is of a poor helpless blind stupid person which I was at the age of 21 years of age.well Im telling you rite now, mister, Im not pore, I am not helpless and I most definitely am not stupid.Pore? No, I get £800 a month, not that that is anything to boast about. after all money isnt the answer to everything. Even though it buys us most of the things we need.Helpless? nope. I went to RNC college, south tems, comunity college and west tems and one more college that I cant remember the name of.Also am a very good cane user and can use the buses, trains, and taxis.Stupid? Hell no! Wouldst thou still calleth me names as ye hath done if ye new me as a friend and not a nameless person who ye doth not no?A bit of old English for you, oh sure it isnt the best Ive written, I am quite mad after all, but it will do for this purpose.Waah ya playin at MR crashmaster? If ya gwan fi talk dat negative chat, as you say, me na wan fi know yu.A bit of Jamaican patois for you. Again not my best, but it will do...I passed. I.T entry level 3, ITQ level 1. Its another I.T. corse if you didnt know. tried a music course for a month and hated it and the helper I got too. Although I wasnt very chatty then, in fact I was quite nervous. I recently have tried English GCSE but found it not to my liking. I am now trying my hand at pottery. Which I know Ill like since I can touch what I make.Do you see what Im getting at? Its not the jobs that makes a person, its there skills and how much they want to put into something they do.Having left highschool and being able for the most part to breeze through with the various blind related job courses behind me the world was my oister.Huh? What blind job courses? over here in the UK we dont have those.Ah maybe the RNIB, where you can learn to talk on a phone and sell products, thats not a proper job or course. RNIB are shit anyway. There prices for all things are way to high and there staff, well most are nice but some from what Ive been told are quite rude. Although I dont have factual evidence to back that up myself.I had it all, I had a possible job, of sorts and I was ready to conker the world.How wrong I was.My life skills course got me down quite quick, bored as heck, I used to eat 20 dollars worth of kfc a day, eat 2 packs of chips and biscuits a day just to get through the boredom.That really isnt healthy...Id recommend juicing if you want to live a healthy life stile.Maybe steamed veg too. See, I like that kind of stuff and even though I dont get much of it, I will when I move, I take it when i can. I think it tastes so much better than fatty foods that just ruin your body.I used to listen to shows on the net, I did have some work but it was not much and most of the time I was bored stiff.You havnt hit that stage yet but you will.If you say so...The life skills program
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific I just read the blog referenced in post 76 and I must say that it has, no pun intended, opened my eyes to the huge amount of discontent among jaws users. I knew it was there, but it was always a below-the-surface thing, and now that someone has actually stepped up and called FS out on it, people are beginning to step up to the plate and protest also. This is something that whas been long ovedue. I am glad it is happening now. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194700#p194700 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific Hi all.firstly sebby I agree with you.Brad, I also share your pain.But thats about where this stopps.I was quite angry with your post yesterday in fact I was about to flame your face into the ground, but my net died when I was sending the post so you never got it.I understand finding a job is tricky, I tried, went through coledge we call it university here, to a point I couldnt go on due to visual subjects and such.I didnt have it smooth sailing, I had trouble with high turn over in agencies for the disabled in general, raw deals with equipment and issues on actually getting people to get things done.Which was why I left in the end.Even the blind org did not help job seeking sites and other things.Firstly why does it matter what the sighted think.In fact there are more that know me than I know and I never associated myself socially with normals at all in university that much.Also, I sometimes find it distracting at times when more know me than I know.2. I do sympathise with you half way.If I had not spent the cash on my life skills program I wouldnt have got the scholarship and I would be in the same position you are in but much faster.Now, I am assuming that you are just starting out, I think mid 20s or something.I hope not more than 30.The style you write in is of a poor helpless blind stupid person which I was at the age of 21 years of age.Having left highschool and being able for the most part to breeze through with the various blind related job courses behind me the world was my oister.I had it all, I had a possible job, of sorts and I was ready to conker the world.How wrong I was.My life skills course got me down quite quick, bored as heck, I used to eat 20 dollars worth of kfc a day, eat 2 packs of chips and biscuits a day just to get through the boredom.I used to listen to shows on the net, I did have some work but it was not much and most of the time I was bored stiff.You havnt hit that stage yet but you will.The life skills program had a few issues in its running but I learned quickly that the world was not my oister and it was not on my side.Everyone had their own agender even my bosses.Work experience is needed for a lot of jobs and being disabled its harder to get that.My first job was teaching people computer at a school with special tech and a mangled security system, bits were wide open, like the staff emails.Whilest reporting an issue with access on the internal network, I by mistake activated this system without any warning.I was accused of hacking and fired.Not that I cared, the system was bad.I managed to finnish the program but didnt take a second year of more advanced training.After that I got my scholarship, and got to a point where there was to much visual stuff to do and had to quit.I did a few more courses outside and I managed to get a few research jobs contract based only but I still get things.I go to the gym and other things now, and I still do what I can.I did then try to continue with work at least I did till I was about 30 years.The burnout and high turnover of case managers and such pluss promises not being kept finally drove me to breaking point.I had 2 choices, comit suiside or quit.I quit, and asked my profiles from all agencies removed because I felt that I was not going anywhere.I cant stress more the fact that you should have a cv of some sort.You may never need it but you need a record of what you have done just in case you do.I managed to get one and managed to modify it last year to the one I have now, its little more than a couple pages but still.You should if you can take a cv writing course at university, and then put all your qualifications and other things out, there are a few things, if you are interested email me off forum and I may be able to send you an old out dated cv I have which is no longer valid anymore.Heck, I may still have a template round somewhere.I know its hard but please try.Now to the stuff I dont support.If you are going to be a blind bum and happily admit it you may have a shock.At least here in new Zealand the government expect all disabled no matter how poor, dumb, retarded or otherwise to find work!Or at least look for it.If you dont then you are a bumb and no good to anyone and your benefit is cut!I do have it down that I am looking for work.Now that doesnt mean you need to find work but you need to at least be willing to do so.I am not sure about other governments, but Id imagine other western arieas have the same concept.There are ristrictions of earning to much over 20 k a year for example where you could loose your benefit, here in new Zealand we fought and won the exemption at least to a point where this wouldnt apply, obviously if we had millions it would but I think the argument was we would all need still access tech and that sort of thing that we may not necessarily afford in fact there are funds from everything from students to business startups
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific I dont believe I see anybody arguing that price isnt an important factor. Hell, if I could _choose_ Android, I would. I cant, because the accessibility just isnt good enough (yes, yes, Android fans, I know how passionate you are to correct this misperception, but please save your breath). The cost of an iPhone is still the same as it is for any other person, and I think youre getting better value for your money; you just cant add the cost of a computer and JAWS up and come up with anything reasonable.Narrator is indeed surprisingly good--not up to the level of VoiceOver yet, but Im fairly sure Microsoft will get there eventually. Im more annoyed that the Windows installer still isnt accessible. FFS, how long? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194624#p194624 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific hi sebby,where did you get the information that narrator on windows 10 will include braille and script support? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194631#p194631 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
2014-11-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : Trenton Goldshark via Audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific Until Narrators support for scripting and braille actually come to the technical preview itself, it should be coming soon, like in January or February of next year, if not in December. Though keep in mind, its stil Technical Preview seaon.BTW, on the topic of Freedom here, please see the following article that folks are talking about:http://joeorozco.com/blog_my_complaint_ … scientific, and be sure to read the comments!I am planning to switch on over to GNU/Linux full time, to get away from the Windows world for the most part, except to play Eamon Deluxe, for example. Though, I believe it can be played on an SSH system, which there instructions for. Ill go search for those later. Yes, Narrator is gonna turn in to something very exciting for sure! Has a chromevox feeling to it, hearing demos and reviews of the product for Windows 8 and later. I should let folks also know, if you didnt hear any of the FS podcasts, that Freedom is taking something that GW Micro/AI Squared use to have, and that is the Lease To Own program. So, Freedoms got it now, 90 day payment installment options with two different paying levels.And, ya never know what Microsoft could do. Get your feedback in via the Windows 10 Tech preview forums, and let them know you want a talking install for the future!http://preview.windows.com/ URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194635#p194635 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific Yo guys thanks for the information related to Narrator. Im an android user, and Ill clear that Talk back throws Narrator away. I use talk back for all apps and so far I dont see any problem with it. I browse websites, use facebook, messenger, skype, watsapp, viber and all the internal apps. Skype is especially incredibly accessible with talk back. At first I expected a worse performance at all, but now I feel impressed by its performance. Its even better than Mobile accessibility, at least in versions 4.3 and 4.4.2 or 4.4.4. I think you should give a try before judge talkback. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194644#p194644 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific Hi.As for getting a job. Im happy to be one of those that sits around not looking for a job. Ive been to college for four years, each year was bad apart from 1 I.T year. Ive tried to make friends with sighted people in colleges but all they do is ignore me, or pretend to be your friend then go back to there own people and ignore you. Ive tried and tried again. Ive tried looking for jobs but got fed up and board. So do I sit around and get money from the government? Yes. Am i happy? yes. IS that the most important thing to me? Yes.I also know blind people with jobs and they are happy doing what theyre doing.Me, personally, Im going to try my hand at a pottery class for a term, then try my hand at learning the saxophone. I feel that if I give to others and to myself, then Im happy. Yes there may come a day when I have to get a job because of cuts and things like that. And when that day comes Ill be ready with my skills. Oh I dont have a CV yet, but well if you can show them you can do a sertan thing then if that day came, i doubt it would matter that much if you had the skills on paper or not. Plus you could always go back to college for a year to relearn, or put it down on paper that you know a sertan thing. Although I dont know if that would be possible. So what Im saying is this, when it comes it comes and Ill be ready.On another topic related to JAWS, have anyone herd of this leci thing? I personally think its a lode of rubbish.My reasons: 1. If youre new to computers youll expect laci menus everywhere, when that simply isnt the case.2. The amazing features are everyday features and I hate it when a company does that. Oh you can copy and paste, move files with eaz, write letters, write emails all in one easy to use program! Yeah but, I can do that already.3. You have to pay for it. Once youve payed for this new computer thing, you have to pay for another thing that might help you understand this computer? Man, i hope people dont by into this.Oh sure, Its cheapish, but thats not the point.the only good thing about the program, in my opinion is the voice. Make that a simth voice and i might by it. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194676#p194676 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
2014-11-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : Trenton Goldshark via Audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific Speaking of Leasey, here is more info about it, including a CD that was recently made:hartgen.org/leaseyAlso, for some, Leasey Advanced will probably be the better by, as its $100, unlike Leasey Basic and Advanced together, which is $150. Yes, it gives UK prices, but in North America, prices should be similar.And unlike Guide, you do not need to stay within the boundaries of Leasey either. So will it take off? Considering more and more programs are being added to leasey regularly for compatibility, Who knows! where Brian and Lulu will take this journey they now have together. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194692#p194692 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific Hi.Ah I didnt know more programs were being added. I guess I should look at things a lot more before I state my opinion. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194693#p194693 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
2014-11-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : Trenton Goldshark via Audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific Yep?Spotify I hear may be getting an interface, though they werent sure as of their last recording. But that, was awhile ago. It most likely will show up in the final product, if not later. iTunes as well. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194694#p194694 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific Well. Again, what to do if less or none companies work especially for accessibility? For example, Microsoft has a built-in screen reader “narrator” which does the worst performance among all the other screen readers. Now can you imagine using your computer through narrator? I agree that there shouldn’t be exception for any users. For example, if there is a text on the screen, or a picture, a sited person can read it, zoom it out, can change the contrasts etc. On the other side there are we, who cannot read the text exclusively with narrator. So in this way what should I do to improve it? why should I be stuck at that screen reader? What if Microsoft doesn’t work to make narrator more accessible? Not all the people in the world are blind so that’s not an influential program and therefore they won’t concentrate so much on that application. There is another point related to Apple, due to its precious work on voice over. They have basically designed all the internal programs to be accessible with voice over and you know that it’s price is high. So while people discovered that iPhone had a great screen reader, why did they ran so fast to buy a 700 dollar phone. While on the other side blinds, which didn’t have enough money are not investing on a screen reader for their computers, which may be more usable than a phone who is designed to communicate like all the phones in the world. I have talked to some people from Turky, Iran and rarely Iraq asking them “what kind of phone are you using?”, and 95% of them answered: “I’m using an iPhone”. In most of the cases it was an iPhone 5, which was recently released. So why are they having money this time? Even people in Canada, USA and UK complain that its price is high. I don’t actually have an iPhone, because I don’t have any special preference on it, and I’m never willing to spend 600 or 700 dollars. It’s too expensive, isn’t it? Here in Albania I asked about the price of an iPhone 5, and I was taken aback when told that the price was 530€, converted nearly to 680 dollars. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194565#p194565 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific The price of the phone is high, yes, but in this case youre getting the screen reader and the device in one... I agree with a lot of mac users who say why would I pay for JAWS when I could pay the same price and get the screen reader along with a computer? So while I think the price is steep for both products, I will invest in both of them... because its not just one single program or application already. If I paid 1500 bucks like I did for JAWS, I could easily get a better than average desktop, heck, even a custom built one... slap NVDA on it, and I already have a better deal. Your average laptop that isnt a netbook or low end model costs at least 500 dollars... add JAWS to that, which is another 1200 or so... and you have almost 2000 worth. And with an iphone or mac... upgrading the software is free. Same with NVDA. Not so with JAWS... URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194570#p194570 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific Hi, actualy microsoft has made improvements to narrator in win 8. While its sirtenly not the ultra best screen reader in the world, and while it needs improvements, it isnt the worst, and its good to see microsoft at least made an attempt to improve narrator itself. I dont know about windows 10 since its far too early to judge and it hasnt even come out, but narrator on win 8 is sirtenly useable and ive used it to browse the web among other things. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194608#p194608 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
2014-11-11
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : Trenton Goldshark via Audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific Speaking of Narrator, this page will be of interest to most of you:http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/wind … =windows-8Adding to that, Narrator in Windows 10 will have Braille display and scripting support. The Windows 10 Technical Preview should have both those features added in there at some point in time before the consumer preview. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194611#p194611 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific bryant wrote:To the person that said that blind people dont make nearly that much money, there are actually blind people out there who do, if they actively try to. This is no slight against anyone here, but a lot of blind people just sit around all their lives and dont actively try to find a job. They depend on the government to take care of them.I hate this self-hating condescending attitude.Its the second time this poster Regurgitates the same claim in a thread about accessibility.First, accessibility is not or rather should not be about money or willingness to work.Even if I dont want to work, and live on the welfare state, I have the same right to accessibility -- the ability to read, write and use a computer or software program as a sighted person.Whats the minimum wage in every nation? If the yearly price for accessibility soft ware is more expensive than what a person of average intelligence and abilities can earn at the minimum wage applicable in the nation, a blind individual should not have to work harder, be smarter or be willing to accept more hardships merely because a greedy monopolistic corporation can milk the individual or the government.I dont expect FS to act out of altruistic feelings for visually impaired individuals.But people who themselves suffer from disability should not advocate a blame the victim mentality.Disabled persons are often the least advantaged in society, and listening to such ignorant talk from anyone who is equally physically incapable of earning a living without accessibility paid for by the government frankly makes me angry.To all the blind individuals who think you can afford to stab your own equals in the back, Ill only say that you are no better than others, and you dont get a better deal for ingratiating yourself with society.Talk is cheap, and if I earned a dollar every time someone said something nice about disabled, I could retire with a good pension. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194460#p194460 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific Jaws works only for making money? [[wow]]! Ill just say that if freedom scientific didnt exist, wed not probably be able to navigate on the internet like we do today. I really think, and its obvious that 1000 dollars are a lot, but your best screen reader NVDA wouldnt exist if freedom scientific because it has clearly copied features from jaws. And if the government or special associations do not pay extra for the accessibility, what the heck to do? My government, neither a special organization is paying for the blinds here for an accessible point. the only thing they have invested in here are audio and rarely brail books. so, I myself wouldnt wait for my government untill they decide to pay for the accessibility on my country for blinds. If I need it, I will do and will pay for it. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194483#p194483 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific Jaws works only for making money? [[wow]]! Ill just say that if freedom scientific didnt exist, wed not probably be able to navigate on the internet like we do today. I really think, and its obvious that 1000 dollars are a lot, but your best screen reader NVDA wouldnt exist if freedom scientific didn’t work for blinds. because it has clearly copied features from jaws. And if the government or special associations do not pay extra for the accessibility, what the heck to do? My government, neither a special organization is paying for the blinds here for an accessible point. the only thing they have invested in here are audio and rarely brail books. so, I myself wouldnt wait for my government untill they decide to pay for the accessibility on my country for blinds. If I need it, I will do and will go may be out of my payments to buy what I need. Because I can’t work without that product that I need to buy.And about NVDA hope they improve the default voice.At least in the most popular languages. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194483#p194483 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific hi,completely agree with jellman afrim, do you have any idea how much money disabled people who live in developing countries earn?I live in turkey, and 90% of blind people are unemployed apparentlythe ones that are employed, are employed mainly because of the reserved quota for disabled individuals in government jobsso mostly they are teacherswith that salerry, you can only have enough to cover your basic needs asuming of course, that you are singlehow can someone like this be expected to shell out thousands of dollars just to be near equal to a sighted person access wise?why should I even have to pay a penny more than a sighted person would to have equal access to my computer?the solution to this is as follows1. the UN or EU should adopt a law that states, that all webpages and software packages be accessible to blind people without exception failure to comply with this should result in fines and termination of said company or revokation of lisence to sell that software package2. operating system companies (mainly microsoft, should be forced to develop there own screen reader and make every single function and procedure in windows accessibleI think this would solve the accessibility problem URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194486#p194486 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific hi,completely agree with jellman afrim, do you have any idea how much money disabled people who live in developing countries earn?I live in turkey, and 90% of blind people are unemployed apparentlythe ones that are employed, are employed mainly because of the reserved quota for disabled individuals in government jobsso mostly they are teacherswith that salerry, you can only have enough to cover your basic needs asuming of course, that you are singlehow can someone like this be expected to shell out thousands of dollars just to be near equal to a sighted person access wise?why should I even have to pay a penny more than a sighted person would to have equal access to my computer?the solution to this is as follows1. the UN or EU should adopt a law that states, that all webpages and software packages be accessible to blind people without exception failure to comply with this should result in fines and termination of said company or revokation of lisence to sell that software package2. operating system companies (mainly microsoft, should be forced to develop there own screen reader and make every single function and procedure in windows accessibleand 3. the make pdfs accessible to screen readers option when creating pdfs should be removed entirelyI think this would solve the accessibility problem URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194486#p194486 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific afrim wrote:Jaws works only for making money? [[wow]]! Ill just say that if freedom scientific didnt exist, wed not probably be able to navigate on the internet like we do today.You are not reading very well are you?No one here has asserted that FS only has one motive for the Jaws screen rreader.What some have argued is that FS is a business, and that some of FS business practices and pricing are neither ethical nor sustainable from the standpoint of a person with a low or modest income.Personally I have only pointed out that I dont expect FS to be an altruistic actor, its after all a business, and I am sure that if the product line wasnt profittable it would be discontinued.I think that your implication that we ought to be grateful for giving a company an opportunity to profit off the misery of disabled persons is quite insulting.We haven t elected to be born blind, and just because its legal to profit from the reality that accessibility is not a universal requirement in society does not mean that we morally should act like an indentured servant. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194497#p194497 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific @gellman: unfortunately, this board only allows you to upvote a post once. But I absolutely agree, and wish I had the fortitude to say as much.My Work Capability Assessment from ATOS Healthcare (Google it, go on, I dare you) is coming up in a fortnight. Im very anxious, not because of the outcome (will I work, or will I continue receiving aid) but because of the means employed to reach it. These assessments are essentially designed to disqualify as many people from receiving state aid as possible, without regard for support needs, ambitions, emotion, risk or anything else aside from the costs. I would gladly contribute to society for all the right reasons, on my own terms and in my own time, but Im sure as hell not cutting myself out for governments and their corporate pals when all theyre trying to do is claw back even more money from disabled people, like me, who absolutely fucking depend on it to actually subsist. And for the record, in this country we& #039;re really quite well-off compared to many other places, despite the governments neoliberal agenda, so Ill give props where its due to good social institution.So yeah, if you are one of these self-righteous people purely motivated by and justified by material concerns rather than a full understanding of the issues preventing disabled people from working, please just go and work for Microsoft or a large Responsible corporation, and give up any real hope of happiness or fulfilment, and keep your delusions to yourself. Thank you. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194522#p194522 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific @SebbyI sincerely empathize with you and wish you the best.My point regarding accessibility is however broader in that I do not subscribe to the premise that accessibility is a benefit we should enjoy or negotiate depending on our ability or will to work.I shall stress that it isnt an argument you have put forth, but very often this implication is lurking in the debat beneath the surface. -- that blind people should prove themselves in order to deserve full accessibility.But I think this logic is wrong because it does not recognize that we in most areas of live are already at a disadvantage and that we even in social settings are often not treated fairly by which is meant according to the moral standards proclaimed as the golden rule by society.Fortunately I have had the privilege of growing up not in the UK or US but in a socialist Scandinavian welfare state.There is a lot of good to say in favor of the UK and the US and some of your blind organizations are doing great work, but when it comes to caring for our basic economic needs, Ill take my own socialist statist welfare state over any experimentation. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194525#p194525 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific @SebbyI sincerely empathize with you and wish you the best.My point regarding accessibility is however broader in that I do not subscribe to the premise that accessibility is a benefit we should enjoy or negotiate depending on our ability or will to work.I shall stress that it isnt an argument you have put forth, but very often this implication is lurking in the debat beneath the surface. -- that blind people should prove themselves in order to deserve full accessibility.But I think this logic is wrong because it does not recognize that we in most areas of live are already at a disadvantage and that we even in social settings are often not treated fairly by which is meant according to the moral standards proclaimed as the golden rule by society.In addition, the problem with arguing that blind persons can just work in order to earn money is that not all are created equal intellectually, emotionally o r brought up in the same socioeconomic environment.What if you by nature are more disposed to handywork, music or happen to be an introvert with no interest or desire for technology, books or a higher education?Should your ability to use a computer, or mobile independence be limited because you cant or wont earn enough to pay a premium price for accessibility?I dont think so.Fortunately I have had the privilege of growing up not in the UK or US but in a socialist Scandinavian welfare state.There is a lot of good to say in favor of the UK and the US and some of your blind organizations are doing great work, but when it comes to caring for our basic economic needs, Ill take my own socialist statist welfare state over any experimentation.Not to say, that I like the Blind Society in my own country.They are pursuing the same stupid agenda as most other blindness organizations.- Visually impa ired should work, be included and not be entitled to an absolute right to pension.Of course, most of the higher fatcats are living off benefits themselves. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194525#p194525 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific @Gellman: I agree that it was not so much stated as implied, but as a matter of fact the proof is very much in the pudding, in that these blindness organisations are often bribed for furthering this misery by taking discounts in exchange for volume sales. If you get this technology for your personal use at all, its because you paid for it out of your own pocket, interest loans inclusive; the only official way to be simply given the technology is as part of a support package for employees. This is bad for the development of blind people who are out of work. Like I said, saving up for a copy of JAWS or other AT is at least something that Im capable of doing with my benefit, and Im genuinely grateful for that, but I completely understand the principle of what youre saying. In future, our government is considering moving technology acquisition into its own program, reducing the benefit and its concomitant effects on basic welfare, and thus putting us on a level playing field with our American friends; this will of course further incentivise these back room dealings, and will most likely mean the end of both quality commercial product and choice. At that point, of course, the cost of blindness will be very self-evident. This is why projects like NVDA are so vitally important, irrespective of personal preference.More generally, given the tendency of both many British and American people to misunderstand socialism at even the most fundamental level as being somehow the enemy of all that is golden, I would venture that this isnt a problem just constrained to blindness, but of course, as blind people we are uniquely in a position to appreciate it first-hand (and I like to think that this just makes us nicer people, too). The problem, for us and for socialism, is that the materialist achievers and those persuaded by them become convinced of some seemingly self-evident and self-fulfilling notion that the only people who deserve to s uffer are quite simply meant to, as punishment for their work-shy and/or mediocre standards, whereas all who achieve immensely at the expense of society as a whole are clearly superior and Deserved their good fortune. Capitalism being the prevailing economic system, this narrative is very easy to persuade the public mind of, and very easy to substantiate using illusory slights of hand. Of course, the truth is much more mundane; most people simply want to give and take to benefit everybody. This is really much more about culture and less about practical reality, I think, which makes it all the more worrying that this country is tolerating greater and greater levels of disability hate crime. I can certainly appreciate why living in a socialist country is thus a very great privilege for a blind person irrespective of economic stimulus, and if I had the choice to move to a more socially accommodating country, Id jump at it. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194532#p194532 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific I know all this, also, I know that they wanna keep it all the way free, but at least improve that ESpeak a little. Im not pretending to get the quality of vocalizer or Ivona, but at least a little improvement. I know, there are plenty of other voices, but were looking to the main one. And again, you can purchase jaws home license for about 120 or 130 dollars, and you can download vocalizer, real speak and any other voice available for jaws, right? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194339#p194339 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific for now, they are not. but maybe in the future they will considering improve the default voices. because they already took the servay from the user... URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194340#p194340 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific they have started to make there own tts named as n v speachplayer it is not that bad it will impruve by the feedback and one more important think that n v d a is made for us by us f s is just keen to make money nothing much i can say about it URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194343#p194343 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific Afrim, you have a point... but NV Access is already working on that. As to JAWS being 120-130$... Im not sure about that, since I havent checked, but Ill take your word on it. But if it was that cheap to get a home license... I dont think people would still be complaining about the price. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194359#p194359 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific Its definetly not that cheep, I think. It still comes to 260tl by the way, and I dont think it would be worth it to spend that much Money for a program when all sighted people go around and make things free while we pay. Not fare at all. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194360#p194360 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific It may not be fair, but we cant complain about a price drop... but while JAWS may be cheaper, NVDA is free, portable and takes up less cpu power... the best part is that I can install a fresh copy on any computer and have all my settings and addons available right away if I install off a portable copy that I cary around with me all the time. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194361#p194361 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific I agree with you. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194379#p194379 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific Thank you. But Afrim has made good points as well. I can appreciate his side even though I dont necessarily agree entirely. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194415#p194415 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific Well, its never a bad thing, because they create their product with somebodys features, this may not be a problem for us, Im happy when somebody works for free, voluntarily, but this may lead them to some punishment, like it happened between samsung and apple in 2012 when apple accused samsung of copying the patentas, and samsung sold over 60 million devices with those designs, being called The iPhone killer, they lost in the court against apple, but their profits were immense. so they really lost 168 million dollars, but sold countless devices all around the world raising thousands of millions of dollars. And if NVDA keeps copying features from jaws, the day will come when theyll send them to court. But I really, really hope this wont ever happen. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194244#p194244 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific Thats because apple and the other company were 2 large corporations, each selling their products for money. Nvda is a not for profit thing run on donations and grants. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194246#p194246 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific They wouldnt be sent to court by FS... not unless FS wanted to look really bad for suing a company who isnt even making any profits off those features that Freedom Scientific can even accusing them of stealing like similar keystrokes. As Danny said, NV Access is a group run by donations and grants... an doing a dang good job of it if you ask me. Theyve also gone international, which is more than you can say for Freedom scientific... their multilanguage support is horrible. they dont even have an option for changing the JAWS interface language the way NVDA does. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194261#p194261 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific And what does it mean that? if it is ran by a group of donators, why dont they create their own product, but keep copying features from others. and what if this free screen reader gains popularity everywhere and make freedom scientific lose customers and much money? man, this is cheating and is not fair cause they are working under somebodys else job. What do you mean with jaws language interface you mean its ability to change the language when another language is detected? or you mean the ten languages which are supported by eloquence and this is not enough? and if its so, imagine what kind of hard work would they need to include more languages in the eloquence. NVDAs default voice ESpeak may support twice languages than eloquence, but so far, ESpeak is the most robotic one among all available voices. Real speak solo direct voices blow it away, either vocalizer expressive voices. A great voice can never be included in a package of 7 0 MB. At least the voice itself should have been 100 MB, as it supports many languages. Look on vocalizer expressive or real speak or Ivona, and you also have an iPhone. what is the minimal size of one high-quality voice on iOS? in my Samsung, the american TTS high-quality voice was 213 MB, and it was clean, and much comprehensive. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194271#p194271 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific Its the way business works... just by creating a screen reader they are technically copying each other. Apple, FS, GWMicro, and all the countries in the word which have their own screen readers like Japan and Korea. And it isnt cheating... its called market competition. Screen readers are essentially the same base product, just with different ways of doing the same thing and different names for them. The base products objective is the same... to read the screen and text on the screen for people who are visually impaired for accessing computers. Feature sets are copied all over the map... the only differences are the specific ones such as language support and operating system-specific things.When I say language support, I mean the language that NVDA menus, messages, and commands are displayed... JAWS currently only has it in English. NVDA comes with at least a hundred different display languages, and synthesizers for all thoe languages are available c ommercially or free. NVDA uses ESpeak because it is open source and free, whereas eloquence and realtech solo voices would mean they have to charge for NVDA in order to distribute the synthesizer with them. I use NVDA with eloquence... and with that combination you cant go wrong. Though yes, certain NVDA addon synthesizers also have the ability to switch between languages, or even completely different synthesizers like people have designed ESpeak to switch with Protalker, which is a Japanese synthesizer. ESpeak itself doesnt support that many languages, but the fact is that NVDA is much more popular internationally because it can display in languages such as Albanian, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Russian and many others. NVDA makes use of whatever voices you have on your computer that are SAPI compatible, so if I have 20 realspeak voices for 20 different languages, then NVDA will be able to use them, as well as display in the language that I choose. all this for a free package, which is again why NVDA doesnt come with a stock synthesizer that is high quality... the developers want to make it a free screen reader, and thus wont bundle it with a synthesizer that requires paying for the program. Those same synthesizers, be it eloquence or vocalizer, whatever else, can be bought other places. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194275#p194275 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific well, when copying less features, it may work and even succeed, but copying almost all, then may not be such successfull. if its so, that NVDA doesnt come with a high-quality voice, why would they include in the download list eloquence. you know, most of NVDA users prefer using eloquence, and not ESpeak. I think they should improve it much more. its really incomprehensive. what if eloquence was not or some days it wont be available for NVDA? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194284#p194284 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific Theyre not copying imho, theyre trying to make a free alternative for people that have not that much Money. Think about this, ok, an American might buy something for $800, but in places like Turkey, it gets to 1600 tl or even greater when the value of dollar increases. And they have not copied all features, they also have invented themselves. Jaws was the first screen reader in Windows so they had the opertunity to start everything. How ever, the market grew and now there might not be an alternative for every single feature. And fs trying to add a little feature like the keyboard command searching then releasing 16.0 and costing for it is sad. I would try some keyboard commands or look into keyboard help before searching for the command would come to my mind. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194311#p194311 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific Well, NVDA doesnt come with high quality voices, but now at least, they have a vocalizer voices which is selling about a hundred bucks. say, if you spend money to buy jaws then, how much would it costs? well, thats about 1000 dollars. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194317#p194317 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific Well, NVDA doesnt come with high quality voices, but now at least, they have the vocalizer voices which is selling about a hundred bucks. say, if you spend money to buy JAWS then, how much would it costs? well, thats about 1000 dollars. and about vocalizer, if people dont want to buy it, thats Ok. youll have another option. Like DECTalk is an alternative to eloquence one. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194317#p194317 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific Well, NVDA doesnt come with high quality voices, but now at least, they have the vocalizer voices which is selling about a hundred bucks. say, if you spend money to buy JAWS then, how much would it costs? thats about 1000 dollars. and about vocalizer, if people dont want to buy it, thats Ok. youll have another option. Like DECTalk is an alternative to eloquence one. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194317#p194317 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific Agree here as well. And Afrim, again I say... they cant make a voice like Eloquence available with NVDA by default... because they would have to start charging customers as a mandatory thing. And that would be going against the point. They are trying to keep NVDA free, and any optional speech synthesizer a user might want to purchase is their own choice, they have nothing being forced onto them. And while I myself prefer eloquence, I know many people who are on this forum who dont mind espeak. The people who have it fast enough for their own satisfaction dont care that its robotic... and those who do will buy their own voices, and there are many many other places to get high quality voices for nvda without paying anything. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194325#p194325 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific Speaking about finding job, I agreed. for blind people who lives in the developing country like me, it is hard to find a job though. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194167#p194167 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific well, youre talking about developed countries regarding to jobs, and you say that thats hard to find a job, even in USA or UK. Then what about countries like Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, or even my country, Albania. Here its a dream to find a permanent job for a blind person, and the payment of the government are not enough sometimes. Also, less blinds can buy a brail display or a typewriter. So I guess its a little easier to find a job in your developed countries. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194187#p194187 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific Interesting discussion. Im hearing rumblings around the library and education industries in Canada that NVDA is the next big thing for them. Governments are becoming motivated by the fact that they can comply with existing accessibility legislation, and do it without paying a dollar. (or, 1000 for jaws) Ironically, I tried to type this post using Jaws but it crashed... things are working perfectly with NVDA. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194188#p194188 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific hello guys!clear that NVDA copied features of jaws, but what I mean is, jaws, window eyes and NVDA copy resources from one another.Even if JAWS is already a software with many years, does not think that NVDA / window eyes make a feature that has no jaws, the freedom will not want to copy?course it will,is a competition for screen readers. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194189#p194189 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific @danny: you are absolutely right. It is because of the economy that these companies are charging this much. Maybe if the economy wasnt so screwed up and crappy, maybe these companies wouldnt be charging so much. But, as it stands right now, there are people out there who cant even make a living off of a small amount of money. Prices are naturally going to be high, and this isnt just with blindness technology. Already prices are increasing on simple food products that you buy from a grocery store. This is just life, and the way the economy is going right now, it could get a lot worse. So, from this standpoint, im going to support these companies, because its very hard to make a living off of a small amount of money. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194192#p194192 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific Jaws has enough features, and I dont know that itll come the day when freedom scientific will copy a feature from a open-sourse screen reader. There are a group of people who work on FS, and they can design their own features. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194201#p194201 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific It isnt just economy... JAWS has cost an arm and a leg for as long as I can remember before economy started going down the toilet. Its the resources they have to put in to making JAWS, as well as the fact that in the bigger sceme, a company as big as FS only has a small amount of people buying their products... since as has already been said, its hard enough finding a job in developed countries like the US and Canada that pay well and that are willing to work with us. Not saying its impossible, just that its harder for us to walk into, say, an office and pick up a job than it is for your average sighted John or Jane on the street. Shuteye, thats interesting... Im from Canada too, and I havent heard all that much about it... but Im not surprised. NVDAs compactness, support for tons of languages, not to mention the constant expansion that happens with addons as well as with each release and the fact that is free and t akes almost no work to get hold of would explain this. I wonder how long itll take FS to come up with some sort of method of pulling translation off with JAWS the way instant translate does with NVDA, or give you a resource monitor... URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194202#p194202 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific @afrim Every screen reader copys from one another, be it jaws, window eyes, what have you. This isnt exactly a bad thing, it just means the features happen to be useful. For exampple, when snowboarding games first came out on the playstation, their were quite a lot of them, each of them being a copy of one another, but they all had their little differences. Cool boarders focused more on grafics than actual gameplay, 1080 snowboarding took what was good about cool boarders gameplay and combined that into a truely good game for the nentendo 64. The same thing applys to jaws and nvda. Nvda simpply took some of jaws good features because they would be useful and added them to their own product, which, again, isnt really a bad thing. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194204#p194204 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific hi,I disagree with the idea that jaws is reasonably priced. The economical crisis isnt an excuse to charge outragiously for a product that is inferior to nvda in almost every way.if fs continues to charge outragiously for jaws, iether one of two things will happen. 1., everyone who cant afford jaws will switch to a free alternative like nvda, or 2. people who need to use jaws or who are just used to it, will crack it. There are always cracks available for jaws if you know where to look URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194224#p194224 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific hello guys!I think the same commands as the developers of NVDA were not implemented on purpose, to have the user did not decorate any q and a list of keys, facilitating learning software.NVDA is free, yes, but other things make it better than other readers.For example,JAWS and Window-Eyes install VideU interseptors and most other things are slow and heavy.NVDA is already light, fast, easy to use, configure and portable, plus other resources URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194106#p194106 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific hello guys!I think the same commands as the developers of NVDA were not implemented on purpose, to have the user did not decorate any q and a list of keys, facilitating learning software.NVDA is free, yes, but other things make it better than other readers.For example,JAWS and Window-Eyes install VideU interseptors and most other things are slow and heavy.NVDA is already light, fast, easy to use, configure and portable, plus other resourcesI think any screen reader is totally innovative, NVDA, jaws and window eyes copy resources from others. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194106#p194106 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific hi about copy features so i say that every one is copping each other i am with n v d a since it is the lightest screen reader and the fastest for windows 8.1 and in the one think no one can beet n v d a that it can run in portable mode without installing any thing in other side jaws and windows eyes are neded to install there drivers to run y the jaws has such a rediculus price of 1000 u s d they dont bother to think about students who are from backward nation like India and others so i stomped using jaws 4 ears a go at that time n v d a 2010.2 was there URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194116#p194116 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific Hi Diego, unfortunately, not all things are like you want. Jaws and window eyes copy features from others! No! when NVDA started existing, jaws had already 10 or 12 years since it was created. So, this is not, and will never be true. NVDA has copied most of the features of jaws, and this doesnt need so much work to realize it. But yeah, it needs work, especially to those who dont know what the jaws is, and who have never used jaws in their lives. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194127#p194127 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific I personally use nvda on a full time basis, mainly because I dont need the extra features of the other screen readers, that and jaws and I didnt get along on my old desktop. And to point out, while we may make a lot of money in the US, it has to do with the econimy as well. My parents themselves are struggling with trying to find a job, hents is why we are going back to arizona in january or febuary, and keep in mined they themselves are sited. I dont cair whos copyed who, I couldnt cair less if nvda even copyed the jaws window. If it gets the job done for me, so that by the end of the day I have enough done on the computer and im ready to go to sleep, thats what counts to me. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194145#p194145 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific Oh, just thought I would point out as well. This specific thing of sitting around paying off the government isnt just done by blind people, nore is it done by the majority, at least from what I know. I happen to go to the florida lighthouse program and know quite a few blind people who have jobs. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194146#p194146 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific Hello,While I agree that its hard to get a job, I dont agree about reporting a post that someone makes, which is only an opinion, to us (the moderators) particularly as it is just that, an opinion and not an attack.Its interesting because now we have both sides of this argument: on one hand, yes, there are those who sit around, but on the other, its certainly tricky. Ive done a btec national diploma for ICT, basically computer based stuff, but a lot of it was with advanced features that were quite visual in nature, and now Im not really sure what I want to do. For now, Im focusing on hobbies, and trying to figure out my next move in terms of trying to get a job. But first, I need to realize what sort of job Id like, or if not, find something that I might be able to learn something from.Regarding prices, I definitely think they need to be lowered, but they also have to make some rather cool new features. The trouble is, what could they do? What is next? Image recognition is getting there, what about metro apps? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194035#p194035 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific FS has really pushed for metro app support using the touch cursor feature implemented in jaws 15, that was actually something that I liked. The whole advanced navigation thing was cool too, it seemed a bit more streamlined than NVDAs is, but only just, and you can do some things a bit quicker than with nvda. NVDA does support metro apps if you use object navigation though it is extremely laggy, more laggy than in jaws in some cases, but also NVDA got in first with that kind of thing. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194036#p194036 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific Well, it’s true that finding a job is hard for blinds, but I guess a blind person can manage to raise 1000 dollars, or at least 700 per year. This wouldn’t be true especially for those who live in poor countries, like south Africa, Iraq, Iran or even my country, Albania, though I have two computers, a Samsung Galaxy s3 and other things I need, there are many people who dream to even have a computer here. But for an American, Italian, French or british blind it’s easier to buy jaws and other programs which are designed for us because your payments are higher. I have an advice, which I’m already practicing to myself. It’s traditionally known that a blind person finds hard to be employed somewhere, and the only way to potentially avoid this is to learn and study hard. Maybe we’ll get more chances of being employed where we like, or related to what we are graduated in because we have more qualities which a sited person may not have. Maybe this is not valuable, but I’ll keep trying.I will always put attention to this. How would you feel if somebody else created a similar product to yours with almost the same features, and with a lower price? This is a great case with jaws and NVDA., because as I mentioned before most of the main features of jaws are copied by NVDA. This may not be important for you, but I bet your opinion would change if this happened to your business. And, if Freedom scientific sents the NVDA developers to court, they will win withouta doubt because it’s something which doesn’t need so many experiments and arguments. But I hope this won’t ever happen because NVDA would permanently stop existing. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194043#p194043 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific Actually thats what is called competition. If the screen reader marker were bigger, the fact that NVDA has all those features would force the price of JAWS down. Unfortauntely, the market is too small, and the buyers are too ignorant, to force the price of JAWS down. Its simple economics. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194066#p194066 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific Just as a note it is illegal in the US and many developed countries to trade in many forms with countries which have restrictions placed upon them for their behaviour, Iran is one such country. Thus I believe it is illegal to sell software to Iran. Whether or not you agree with this it is a fact we cannot change.Id love to see this but while governments and other organisations provide the commercial screen readers with business I dont see it happening. This is one of the biggest problems with assistive tech, while the governmental assistance to pay for things is invaluable the governments do nothing to demand better prices.Just as a note if no ones aware MS made a deal with GW Micro so that if you install MS Office, even a demo version I believe, you can install and use a version of Window Eyes for free. If for whatever reason you want one of the big commercial readers over NVDA this is an option. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=193924#p193924 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific Just as a note it is illegal in the US and many developed countries to trade in many forms with countries which have restrictions placed upon them for their behaviour, Iran is one such country. Thus I believe it is illegal for FS to supply software to Iran. Whether or not you agree with this it is a fact we cannot change.Id love to see this but while governments and other organisations provide the commercial screen readers with business I dont see it happening. This is one of the biggest problems with assistive tech, while the governmental assistance to pay for things is invaluable the governments do nothing to demand better prices.Just as a note if no ones aware MS made a deal with GW Micro so that if you install MS Office, even a demo version I believe, you can install and use a version of Window Eyes for free. If for whatever reason you want one of the big commercial readers over NVDA this is an option. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=193924#p193924 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific yep but I see no reason why someone would like to pay for a program when they can get the same thing for free. I am so glad I switched to nvda and I would never go back to jaws. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=193934#p193934 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific Hello people!recently NVDA has greatly improved support in microsoft office, such as word, excel and powerpoint, and I believe will soon equal or better than the jaws.Already NVDA OCR is very good, better than the jaws in some situations.I tested the pdfs,the only feature that has jaws is support for fast navigation because NVDA can read quietly.Even if the jaws have its price reduced, yet stay with NVDA, for portability, speed, lightness and functionality.Even the window eyes with that the partnership is free from microsoft not reached my goals. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=193939#p193939 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific Yeah, in the future, nv access will won the freedom scientific. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=193942#p193942 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific Youve all got that right. They will win, and FS will go down in history as The company who made a good screen reader for about 20 to 30 years, but fell off the face of the earth because NVDA bested it. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=193950#p193950 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific Im a jaws user, and think always will be. Some features, or most of the features of jaws are copyed by NVDA, and thats why NVDA is improved. how does NVDA menu works? doesnt they use the Insert key? How do you put the keyboard help on? dont you use insert+1? how do you go to NVDA menu? dont you press Insert+N, which is exactly insert+J in jaws. How do you navigate on the Internet? dont you use H. for headings, U. for links, L, for lists, E. for edit boxes. How do you read the time and date? dont you press insert+f12? how do you open the Help menu on NVDA? dont you use insert+F1? and a question for those who do not want eloquence: Is there any voice like that which is so comprehensive, and super-integrated with jaws? I am getting mad because I have thousands of time I say this. Why the heck should I download tens and hundrids of scripts while they are already included in the jaws package? Its really annoying downloading script f or almost every program indeed and Ill never do this. also, the help menu in jaws is perfect, sometimes even better than the help support of windows. Unfortunately, not because I like so, or not because I want so, but nobody is going to work or release a product for such a low price. They have already made a change by reducing the price for a home license, which was not bad. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=193962#p193962 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific they reduced the price for the pro license, not the home license. And its still quite expensive. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=193963#p193963 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific Hi,I probably wont be trying Jaws even if they do switch. In my experience, Jaws starts up slower than NVDA, and a couple of years ago when I was in college, jaws crashed my college laptop so much but when I switched to NVDA all the crashes and I do mean all of them stopped, and that is what really made me realize how good NVDA was. I then switched to it full time on my home PC and have never looked back. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=193966#p193966 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific Do you think window-eyes will be updated? Is window-eyes more stable than jaws is? I do wish window-eyes had OCR ability though. Also there is no reason for jaws to be priced or to cost $1000 or more. That is just rediculous especially when they are letting you use window-eyes as long as microsoft office 2010 or later is installed. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=193971#p193971 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific 120€ are so much? No! I really consider hard buying the pro license 1000 dollars, but 120€ are not so much, especially for those who live in developed countries like Germany, France, Italy, UK, USA or Canada. There are people who earn 100 dollars a day, or others who earn 80 pounds a day. So it’s not so much. But I sincerely won’t start the battle like I did in a previous post between jaws and NVDA. It’s a waste of time, especially when people do not understand what you say. I am very thankful to freedom scientific only for one thing, and maybe all the people should be. The way we navigate on the internet is unique and irreplaceable at least in windows. Moving through the headings, links, lists, regions, edit boxes, check boxes etc by using keys is simply precious work they did.Other things should go without saying, as the price is high, so it normally should offer good dfeatures.And I will never understand why the heck people want to remove features which are built-in a program, what is necessary for you isn’t for somebody else, and what is not needed by a group or ten people is needed for some others. So, the program is not designed for individual customers and we should keep those features as long as we can’t change anything. For example, I may have programs which are created by Samsung on my phone which need site to use or an assistance of a sited person, so, if I can’t use, should I remove that? Also for those who use apple, which may provide apps which you don’t want installed on your device because they high the price, do you like to remove them? This happens on every business. We always will find features which are useless for us, but maybe somebody else has been looking forward for years to them. This will never change and I assure you for this. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=193976#p193976 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific Afrim, I understand your thinking (post 15), but I dont particularly agree with it. For me, its all about what gets the job done. I dont care if someone copied someone else; if I can use it well and get work done, thats all that matters.Regarding the cost, most blind people (post 19) dont actually make anywhere near that much. For them, NVDA is an extremely viable alternative.People can wish and dream, but the fact is this whole idea will probably never happen. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=193978#p193978 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific No, please dont ask FS to reform where they get their money from. It might help you in the short term not to pay them directly, but it will hurt you in the long run. Governments/charities/NGOs are not users; they have no interest in your experience with the product. In fact, especially in the US, it would appear that they have nothing short of incentives to maintain the status quo. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=193981#p193981 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific What I think would be most beneficial is for competition to be more active. Most people choose a screen reader and rarely change, and most screen readers stay at the same price long term. If either of these things were to change the screen reader developers would have more incentive to innovate and to actually care about their users. Not that its likely. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=193983#p193983 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific Hi.Im going to have to agree with afrim on this. I think many of nvdas features were already in jaws in the first place. NVDA just copied them for compitition purposes. I only have nvda on my computer for 1 reason, and that is to play bk3 with instant translate. If it werent for that, I would completely uninstall nvda and never use it again.To the person that said that blind people dont make nearly that much money, there are actually blind people out there who do, if they actively try to. This is no slight against anyone here, but a lot of blind people just sit around all their lives and dont actively try to find a job. They depend on the government to take care of them. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=193991#p193991 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific and, fs has a payment plan. You dont have to pay for jaws all at once anymore. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=193995#p193995 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific Hi briant, is this not a generalisation.To be honest do you have any idea how hard it is to even get a job?Here in new Zealand I graduated school 20 years back, well maybe 15 now I forget point is back then I enroled in an living skills program.This ended up among other things with me with a scholarship for the local university.Which I progressed through to a point but it got to hard visuals and the like so I had to leave.Once out, I had a lot of trouble getting a job, the agencies I used during and after university gave me things to late and I had some communication issues with them.Point is I ran through the government funded hoops and got nowhere.6 years of this had me concidder either killing myself or at least doing something drastic.I then put my foot down and said to the agencies that they were not helping and please leave me alone!I even ran through the job seeking sites online and a few other things.No luck, more spam for my mailbox.I completed a cv about 2-3 years ago and thats where its been.Sitting round waiting for the government to care for me.I am not sure which part of the world you exist in but if you can do that then Id like to go there and live there.here we dont get that much and there are restrictions, ie I need to have or be looking for work else I get no cash from them.Neither do I get cash if I earn to much, while some of this has been relaxed a bit I cant just sit and wait as such at least on paper.I am actively searching for a job mostly online as I have given up on the mainstream searches.Its true blind people myself included do find it hard to motivate ourselves, Ill give you that.However if you or anyone else putsanything like this again on this forum, I will flame myself off it, I may even report your post to the mods.I dont seriously think that the general blindy wants to sit roun d like a poor helpless bum, but its hard at the best of times to find work.And now with the recent echonomic crash, its harder still I have disabled friends that are finding it hard.I do think that you need to know what you are typing.Saying that if I could sit on my but all day and not care I would!But you cant even though I want to. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=193996#p193996 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific Do you think that Freedom Scientific really cares if people use cracked copies of their software? After all, if they offered a decent payment plan or rental plan then people would not have to use cracked jaws to gain access to certain software, would they? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194000#p194000 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific but what if there is a pdf which is picture only? it seems that jaws does better than NVDA on picture only pdf files. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=194001#p194001 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific Hello,This is an interesting proposal. Well have to wait and see. However, I noticed at the end of your message is your application form details. It has things such as your phone number on it, and that does make me a little worried particularly as youve just posted the hole message to a public forum, which could mean anyone on google could find it. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=193860#p193860 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific is there any way I can edit my previous post and delete that information? if not could a moderator edit the post and remove that info please? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=193864#p193864 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific never mind figured out how to edit it. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=193866#p193866 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific I would like to note that nvda does perfectly fine with pdf files, better than jaws in many cases. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=193884#p193884 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific I would like to note that nvda does perfectly fine with pdf files, better than jaws in many cases.Also, as part of that proposal, make it so that we can modify computer hardware without having to re-activate?Any, and I do mean literally any, change to a machines internal hardware makes you re-activate, which is especially rediculous when youre either replacing a hard disk, upgrading an old computer (you dont buy a new one so you can afford the jaws upgrade price) or just working on hardware in general.Itd be awesome to see something more like GMAs product registration. Its still locked to a machine, but you can go right ahead and put in that new disk, that extra memory and the games still play happily.Not that any of thisll actually happen, but may as well throw it out there for the discussion. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=193884#p193884 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific This is something I would particularly enjoy. One other thing that I would like FS to add, which they are quite stubbern about, is returning an activation key to the customer when said customer deactivates hes or her product. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=193886#p193886 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific [[wow]], thats interesting proposal. Ive enjoy it really much. so yeah, like Aaron said, well have to wait and see. what will freedom scientific will do in the future. Socheat. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=193897#p193897 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific there is actually an addon for nvda that enables ocr but I havent tested it so I dont know how it works. Ive switched about 2 months ago from jaws to nvda and I am really excited about how nvda works. the responsiveness of my pc has greatly improved since Ive removed all the crap that jaws comes with. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=193901#p193901 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific
Re: a proposal, jaws lite shareware by freedom scientific Havent heard of that addon. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=193911#p193911 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
