jim kitchen headed for a great big lawsute?
2014-08-19
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ammericandad2005 via Audiogames-reflector
jim kitchen headed for a great big lawsute? hello,I was playing through all the games from jim kitchen and noticed that all of them stole at least one thing that was certainly under copyright.this is not a threat to sue him just so you know.for example, mach 1 plays a bit of the dukes of hazard theme in the intro, puppy one plays part of hogon's heroes, etc.this doesn't include anything simpsons related mostly because of homer starring in 2 of his games. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=18#p18 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
jim kitchen headed for a great big lawsute?
2014-08-19
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ammericandad2005 via Audiogames-reflector
jim kitchen headed for a great big lawsute? hello,I was playing through all the games from jim kitchen and noticed that all of them stole at least one thing that was certainly under copyright.this is not a threat to sue him just so you know.for example, mach 1 plays a bit of the dukes of hazard theme in the intro, puppy one plays part of hogon's heroes, etc.this doesn't include anything simpsons related mostly because of homer starring in 2 of his games.how does he even get away with it? USA games almost got sued for montizooma's revenge (that's how the tomb hunter series started). URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=18#p18 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: jim kitchen headed for a great big lawsute?
2014-08-19
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : arqmeister via Audiogames-reflector
Re: jim kitchen headed for a great big lawsute? Because Jim's games are freeware, thus, he is seeking no profit, thus, no grounds to sue him because no money is being made on someone else's behalf. Dam copyright laws and lawyers who support it can go to hell. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=185557#p185557 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: jim kitchen headed for a great big lawsute?
Re: jim kitchen headed for a great big lawsute? I think there are two things to consider:1. As far as I know, Jim Kitchen's not claiming anywhere that everything is his. He borrows all kinds of stuff, as far as music, sounds and such go.2. Since he's not charging for his products to the best of my knowledge, he can't be sued for anything. That would be like you deciding to screw with the Super Mario theme for your phone using a music editing program, then using it as some sort of rringtone. As long as you don't then turn around and try to sell it or claim it's yours in any legal documentation, the law leaves you alone.Names of products can be licensed. Some music and other sounds can as well. Most can't though, and while it's sort of a gray area, I doubt Jim will be in any trouble. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=185558#p185558 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: jim kitchen headed for a great big lawsute?
2014-08-19
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Trenton Goldshark via Audiogames-reflector
Re: jim kitchen headed for a great big lawsute? Do keep in mind, he's been making games, including dos ones, since 1994, and does give credit, where credit is do.Each, and every game of his, is "freeware," URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=185580#p185580 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: jim kitchen headed for a great big lawsute?
Re: jim kitchen headed for a great big lawsute? Yes you can be sued for using another's work even in a freeware product, the key thing here is that because they're free there's simply no money in a lawsuit. Add to that the things he borrows from are popular enough that it's virtually impossible to police their use simply because of how many search results get returned, and the fact that you could consider it free publicity in a very minor sense.The less well known a work is the easier it is to police such things, it's also more likely since small companies are less worried about the kind of PR backlash Fox might get for sueing Jim Kitchen for example. Less well established brands and the like might also be more conscious of controlling their IP since in some jurisdictions not enforcing copyright can result in an implied surrender of rights to enforce it.So it's a combination of being less likely to be found out and no real benefits to a lawsuit combined with the company being able to withstand ignoring it better. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=185602#p185602 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: jim kitchen headed for a great big lawsute?
2014-08-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ammericandad2005 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: jim kitchen headed for a great big lawsute? thanks, I wasn't planning on a lawsuit, but I know about USA games losing the star wars licence a long time ago. during the 1990s, PCS games (then known as Personal Computer systems) was the only audio game company to obtain any licences, and they only saught after 2 franchises (star trek and pac-man; their duck hunt game is not related to the nes classic, unlike the l-works version which is a straight out clone). URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=185639#p185639 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: jim kitchen headed for a great big lawsute?
Re: jim kitchen headed for a great big lawsute? American Dad, there are a lot of differences to consider here.First, as many others have said Jim Kitchen is not selling any of his games. While that alone won't protect him from a lawsuit over copyright infringement it makes such a suit unlikely. If a person isn't making money off the copyrighted material it is less likely someone will attempt to sue because they know it will likely cost them more to take the case to court than they are likely to get if they win.In USA Games' case we were already actively selling Montezuma's Revenge, AKA Montezuma's Return, and Utopia objected to us using their trademark commercially. In hindsight we could have just removed the trademarks and probably went on with the project, but chose to start over from square one. In any case it was settled out of court.Second, thing here to keep in mind is anonymity. Even though Jim Kitchen has been developing games for twenty plus years he still isn't likely to be known to anyone whom he borrowed sounds and music from. There is something to be said being a fairly unknown person when borrowing sounds, music, and yes even game ideas. It lets a person get away with a lot that is not strictly speaking legal.Third, there is the possibility of bad public relations. A lot of people probably aren't aware that all of the games he creates have copyrights owned and held by other companies. Its not legal to just go and write a Monopoly game because Hasbro Inc. holds the copyrights to it. thing is if Hasbro were to openly sue Jim Kitchen it could become a public relations nightmare so even if they know Jim was using their copyrights they might not want to touch that one with a ten foot poll.Finally, as for the Star Wars license we never had one to begin with. that's the entire trouble. We tried to acquire one through legal channels and found out that Lucas Licensing expected a ridiculous amount of money to acquire a commerci al license. That wouldn't necessarily rule out the possiblity of writing free Star Wars games, but it wouldn't strictly be legal to do so. If we got caught we could get in hot water if Lucasfilm or Disney wanted to persue the matter in court. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=185660#p185660 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: jim kitchen headed for a great big lawsute?
Re: jim kitchen headed for a great big lawsute? I'm afraid I agree with Arqmeister on this. the law be buggered! why should these idiots like Lukasarts who don't give a rats arse about vi people accessing their stuff prevent someone from making their own as well. that's like saying "oh sorry you can't put braille or audio label on your tin of hines beans without paying a big fee to hines" To be honest, copywrite has become so distorted from the psirit of the laws original intention, that I see no reason to respect it these days at all, as it's just another controlling tool of the fat cat companies and has very little to do with getting creative people what they deserve for their own creations (especially sinse usually it's not the authors/film makers who actually bennifit anyway). While I understand getting sued is a problem, and I can appreciate that in legal battles it can come down to who can throw most money at into the ring which is just not a contest most people will win, at the same time if it hasn't happened it hasn't happened and having it prevent us having starwars, star trek, simpsons etc games seems drastically unfare, particularly sinse as tom Said it would be likely that if any of the fat cats did! take an audiogames developer to court over the perhaps 2000 usd prophet they got for their games the company would look ridiculous. Phil after all has used loads of copywrited sounds and materialin his Sarah game and has come up with something awsome. Btw, I confess I'm quite tired so concievably my opinions are slightly harsher than they would be, but still I don't see why s we should respect these grasping idiots! URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=185677#p185677 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: jim kitchen headed for a great big lawsute?
Re: jim kitchen headed for a great big lawsute? I'm afraid I agree with Arqmeister on this. the law be buggered! why should these idiots like Lukasarts who don't give a rats arse about vi people accessing their stuff prevent someone from making their own as well. that's like saying "oh sorry you can't put braille or audio label on your tin of hines beans without paying a big fee to hines" To be honest, copywrite has become so distorted from the psirit of the laws original intention, that I see no reason to respect it these days at all, as it's just another controlling tool of the fat cat companies and has very little to do with getting creative people what they deserve for their own creations (especially sinse usually it's not the authors/film makers who actually bennifit anyway). While I understand getting sued is a problem, and I can appreciate that in legal battles it can come down to who can throw most money at into the ring which is just not a contest most people will win, at the same time if it hasn't happened it hasn't happened and having it prevent us having starwars, star trek, simpsons etc games seems drastically unfare, particularly sinse as tom Said it would be likely that if any of the fat cats did! take an audiogames developer to court over the perhaps 2000 usd prophet they got for their games the company would look ridiculous. Phil after all has used loads of copywrited sounds and materialin his Sarah game and has come up with something awsome. Btw, I confess I'm quite tired so concievably my opinions are slightly harsher than they would be, but still I don't see why s we should respect these grasping executive morons who wouldn't know a truly creative thought if it bit them on the bumb!As Marx said, you can't get morality&nb sp; from creation of prophet. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=185677#p185677 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: jim kitchen headed for a great big lawsute?
2014-08-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Guitarman via Audiogames-reflector
Re: jim kitchen headed for a great big lawsute? Hi.Well there is a loophole if you create a star wars, star trek, or simpsons game and use sounds from companies if you release it as an open source project you can call it fanfiction and if a company threatens to sue you you can just tell them, "Go to hell it's free fanfiction." Jim kitchen could be sued but I believe that as long as fox and others don't find out it's okay. If somebody did sue him it would definitly be a public relations nightmare. I can see the headline now, "Man is sued by fox for stealing copyrighted simpsons material but only as freeware." That would be helarious I don't think fox or any other company would ever be able to get over something like that. I'm tempted to make a copyrighted game just so I can yell at one of those stuffy corporate assholes lol. That would be aweful if we couldn't play homer on a harley or the awesome homer or the nfl and baseball games. I wish more audiogames had s impsons characters in them. I wouldn't mind creating an x-files game since that was a classic show. I could call it x-files: fox's doom lmao. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=185696#p185696 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: jim kitchen headed for a great big lawsute?
2014-08-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : GhorthalonTheDragon via Audiogames-reflector
Re: jim kitchen headed for a great big lawsute? You know,Most people in the audiogames scene are pretty good in getting away with it, just because it really never leaves the community. This is a fact that we simply will have to face, as there are very few sighted gamers who will actually try out this kind of gaming. Maybe once, or twice, but as long as they have games that they can stick to that uses most of their senses, who would blame them for not going with those? Especially if they're produced by companies with huge budgets, so they can get licensed, and have generally better "quality" (Notice the quotes!) than the games that we'd be able to make in our spare time, as that's what most people tend to do.Anyway, going back on track, Copyright law is one of the more complex ones. And while I myself have not much looked into it, I would not be surprised if it varied on states/countries. So I agree with Dark. As long as you don't make any profit off of it, I don't see why you sho uld really bother. Just do it.If you're planning to sell your stuff though, you might want to take a read. And also figure out if you can simply sell a lot of stuff without licensing yourself as an individual who is able to do so allowed by the state. Not that they'd find out, unlikely, but should your game suddenly take off, not only might you be in for lawsuit trouble that you didn't know because you took sounds you randomly found on the web, but also because you could pay the state money for what you do, at least a good part of it, and they didn't know. So, you need to fix that by doing it afterwards. At least, that's what I understand.Partly why I wouldn't feel comfortable selling my software. But if people have the option to not pay any money, they won't, and especially not if it's a donate button. And the most used excuse here is "I'm broke". LOL URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=185734#p185734 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: jim kitchen headed for a great big lawsute?
Re: jim kitchen headed for a great big lawsute? Dark, I certainly see where you are coming from, and in principle I agree with you. Unfortunately, it all comes down to what the developer's objective is and how much that particular copyrighted material means to him/her.For example, back in 2004 when I started USA Games I had plans to start USA Games as a business. As such I had several plans and ways to advertise the games and expand outside of the Audio Games Forum and Audyssey List. For one thing I figured once I got a couple of good accessible games developed I could go to the NFB, AFB, ACB, or RNIB and try and get them to sponsor my games with their customers. I could contact large resellers of accessible products like In dependant Living Aids and see if they would carry my games in their inventory. Those are definitely good ideas for building up a potential customer base, but that would all assume I had soul control over the copyrights and trademarks.If I write a Star Wars game, for instance, and then try to sell it I am likely to end up in all kinds of legal problems. The more I publicize and advertise the game the more likely Lucas or someone is likely to find out about it and could begin legal proceedings against me or USA Games. If I sell it that would be all the more reason to take me to court and for them to get reparations in lost sales since under the law anything I make off the games technically belongs to the copyright holder. So obviously going the commercial route could be ultimately self-destructive.So as I see it the best way to handle it would be to release the game as freeware or open source, under a fan fiction type license, which would probably forestall any legal proceedings. At most all Lucas would do is ask the court for a cease and desist order, and the game would have to be taken down and destroyed. That would also mean that advertising would not be beneficial to the project and it would be better to just advertise via Audyssey, the Audio Games Forum, an d like places and hope Lucas doesn't hear about it. No sense in dragging NFB, RNIB, ACB, AFB, etc into the mess as they probably won't want any part of a legal hot potato such as that.So the choice is this. If a game developer is interested in developing something for profit, getting a lot of press, and exposure then it is safer to develop something he or she has the full rights to. On the other hand if publicity and money aren't an issue, he or she truly wants a copyrighted work that isn't accessible, then he or she can do so as long as they keep it under the radar of the copyright holder. Make sense?I'm inclined to agree with you to a certain point that copyright law has gotten out of hand, and in cases such as this I don't want to respect it. At the same time I fully realize that sometimes if a developer wants to have a successful business then one has to play by the rules. Even if those rules sometimes suck.Besides, all of your points are forgetting the fact those same laws that protect the fat cat corporations also protect the small indie developers as well. What I mean by that is that if an indie developer like USA Games comes up with a really revolutionary game series Draconis, GMA, etc can't legally rip it off and start making money off USA Games' ideas, nor could USA Games steel their game ideas. This is more like what the law was created for, and to keep competition going between competitors. The idea was to drive the market by introducing alternative ways of doing things, by creating and marketing separate innovative products, without steeling the other guy's ideas and intellectual property.Seen from that perspective I am okay with copyrights. If I were the owner and creator of Star Wars I wouldn't exactly want someone taking my characters, ideas, etc and making lots of money off it either. Although, I am sure I would be more generous than someone like George Lucas a bout it I can empathize with the principle it is his dream, his ideas, and people should have to pay him to use his ideas the same if they were my ideas. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=185736#p185736 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: jim kitchen headed for a great big lawsute?
Re: jim kitchen headed for a great big lawsute? As a small note once upon a time Lucas had a policy of demanding any and all star wars fan sites be taken down for infringing his copyright, regardless of the fact that they were effectively free publicity. Enforcement of copyright can be very hit and miss depending on who controls it, how much effort they're prepared and capable of putting into the enforcement, how much they care about any potential bad press and simply how much stuff they have to sift through to find content which they find an unacceptable breach of copyright. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=185771#p185771 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: jim kitchen headed for a great big lawsute?
Re: jim kitchen headed for a great big lawsute? Hi Folks,Before I created my Sarah game I tried to contact Joanne Kathleen Rowling and her lawyer.I received no response to my messages.I figured if they had a problem, I could always changed the copyrighted names in the game to something generic.Plus I didn't use Harry Potter as a character in the game.I included the following text in the instructions:All proper names from the Harry potter book series are trademarks ofJoanne Kathleen Rowling and the Time WarnerEntertainment Company, L.P. PCS Games is in no-way affiliated with J.K. Rowling, ScholasticBooks, Carlsen Verlag, Bloomsbury Publishing or Warner Bros. All material related to the J.K. rowling novels is copyrightScholastic Books (US), Carlsen Verlag (D) and Bloomsbury Publishing(UK). URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=185813#p185813 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: jim kitchen headed for a great big lawsute?
2014-08-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : kyle12 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: jim kitchen headed for a great big lawsute? Hi,The way I'm seeing it, as long as you don't use copyrighted characters there's a 99.9 percent you're not going to get a lawsuit. Take, for example, the game that phill made. It uses Hogwarts, sure, but I know a few other works that use it (most noteably the fanfics that are being soled). Its not worth the time or money for a big company or author to take out a lawsuit against audio games, because its as tom said. Where else are they seen anyway?Lucasfilm LTD are one of the more finiky companys. This is because George lucas was braught up on the prinsiples of "what's mine is mine" and nothing is going to change that. Take in to account when the guy was born, when he released his films, etc. It actually took almost 10 years for them to get audio books and printable books out because of lucas being annoyed that it got a great fan base, basically. I know, I'm boggling over here. But, in theary, doesn't that mean Craig Bret co uld be sued for his star wars: A new hope tactical battle map pack? Just something to chew over.I know paramount haven't sued either GMA or USA for their use of the star trek logos, sounds etc. In fact, the intro music to final conflict is the deep space 9 theme. Bare in mind, however, both of these games are free (now). URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=185830#p185830 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: jim kitchen headed for a great big lawsute?
Re: jim kitchen headed for a great big lawsute? Hmm. It might well be worthwhile questioning how you would react if it were your copyrighted work being used.Ultimately it probably comes down to intent: if you aren't making money and are doing the world a favour, nobody can reasonably take issue. But, if the opportunity existed for a market to form around the audience of those who benefited from your copyright infringement, then the publisher would have a legitimate case, and you couldn't reasonably defend it, without resorting to the court of public opinion and PR tactics.That publishers haven't thus far given a damn probably means you're on pretty safe ground, at least for now. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=185999#p185999 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: jim kitchen headed for a great big lawsute?
2014-08-23
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ammericandad2005 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: jim kitchen headed for a great big lawsute? I'm being fair here. some of them are quite obscure nowadays anyway. HOgon's heroes for example was mostly popular in the 1970s, and doesn't really have a fan base anymore, unlike twilight zone which was an older series. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=186134#p186134 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
